Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 10, Season 2: Money, Marriage & Faith: What If It’s Not About the Money? With Special Guest Clint Jasperson

Transcript

Episode 10, Season 2: Money, Marriage & Faith: What If It’s Not About the Money? With Special Guest Clint Jasperson · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the lovedg podcast. I'm your co host Rayna
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the owner,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: founder and CEO of the lovedc relationship coaching services. You
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: can visit her at the lovedoc dot com.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: What's up? Not much?
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: What are you doing?
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: You know, just recording a podcast?
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, everything to do. So excited about our guest today,
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: me too, I'm very excited.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: So today we have for all of our listeners something
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: that is so so important in terms of relationships. We
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: have Clint Jasperson here who is a financial expert, and
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna let Clint give us you know, his background,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: his education. Just tell our listeners just really about who
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: you are and exactly what you do.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: Thanks, thanks for the introduction. Of course, thanks for having me.
• 1:00
  Speaker 5: So I'll give a little personal background and then share
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: some of my formal credentials. Born in the middle of nowhere, Wyoming,
• 1:07
  Speaker 5: grew up in a log cabin and I would say
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: why and how I got connected to what I do.
• 1:13
  Speaker 5: My father passed away when I was really young, about fifteen.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: Years old, and it was really there was a lot
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: of composts of that experience.
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: One of it was though we basically had to sell
• 1:25
  Speaker 5: our house that we lived at the time, and it
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: was a very there was no time to grieve. It
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: was a financial devastating event as well as devastating to
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: the heart. And if you ask my mom why they
• 1:35
  Speaker 5: hadn't done any of the planning associated with that, what
• 1:39
  Speaker 5: she would say is that no one had ever talked
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: to them, or no one they had ever talked to
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: them that they trusted. And so it's interesting how God works,
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: where you know, these events happen in your life and
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: you look back and it makes sense. Then I feel
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: like that event kind of led me a decade and
• 1:54
  Speaker 5: a half later to starting a wealth management firm where I,
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: you know, my goal is to create clarity and confidence
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: around money. A little bit of the professional background prior
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: to that, I did benefits consulting, got my bachelor's and
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: master's degrees doing various things studying psychology, experience with business,
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: got my master's in education. Kind of this interdisciplinary approach
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: of resolving all these things that I've been through in life.
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: And then in twenty thirteen, just felt called to go
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: and start this. Ironically enough, well ironically and sadly. About
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: a month after deciding to do that, my wife's dad
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: passed away, and so it was this kind of interesting
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: moment of like getting galvanized in this direction. We relocated
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: and now live in northern Colorado, which is where my
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: wife grew up, so pretty close to Wyoming, where I
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: am a part of. I have two beautiful little girls,
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: love them dearly, live a very happy life, grateful to
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: wake up and read the air we've been blessed with.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Is a whole different kind of it is.
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that Rocky Mountain, well, rocky Mountain highs defined by
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: a couple of different things there now legal stuff, but
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: John Denver wasn't kidding.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: It's a really beautiful place to be.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: So, and then in terms of the financial credentials CFP,
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: Certified Financial Planner, a couple of other designations depending on
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: what people care about, but really just care about helping
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: people with their finances.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.
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  Speaker 1: And as you know, like I mentioned before, there's such
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: a correlation between relationships one marriages and what people deal
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: with in terms of their finances. But like we discussed
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: when we spoke, was really your relationship to money. And
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I think this is something that Sarah and I can
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: speak very candidly on we have struggled with yes, and
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: so I want to approach this subject first before we
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: get into you know, finances and marriage, because I think
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: it's important to approach your own relationship with money and
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: how you feel about it before you approach it within
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: a marriage with someone else. And so I can speak
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: from personal experience similar to your story. You know, we
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: grew I grew up in a home where I don't
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: recall ever not having everything I needed, but I do
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: recall there were moments when there was financial stress. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: my dad was a contractor, and so of course contracting
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: is seasonal, so it was like I remember in the
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: winter it was like we had no money and in
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: the summer we did have money, and so it was
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: kind of there was there were moments of scarcity, and
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: so I've done, I've tried and instilled doing a lot
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: of healing work around what I call a scarcity mindset
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: when it comes to money. And so I've lived, you know,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: forty two years, and I've in my adult life, I've
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: there's been moments where I've lived off Raymond noodles in
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: a prayer, and then there's been other moments that you know,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I've I've had, you know, money to some degree, you know,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: upper middle class, I would say, and it it doesn't
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: matter where I've been. My relationship and again I'm candidly
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: speaking about this has always been the same of oh gosh,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I don't have money, and so I need to spend
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: money when I do have it because eventually I'm not
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: going to have And so now where I feel like
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I'm getting to a place where I I am becoming
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: more financially secure, I still have this really like survival
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: mode mindset and I'm trying so hard. And this is
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: why I'm so excited to have you on, because I
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: want to talk about that relationship more so than like
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the logistics behind them, but like the true like heart
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: soul relationship with money and how it affects us.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a very I wouldn't say similar experience
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: because where I am with money now isn't in a
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: scarcity mindset, but it's almost like worse than a scarcity mindset.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: I have a very like freeze response to money. Whereas
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: like my husband's my CFO, he handles all of our finances.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: I don't like to look at the numbers in the bank.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: I don't like to look at quick books. I don't
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: like I don't want to know anything about our money.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Just tell me if I can spend it or not.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: And it's because just the idea of seeing the numbers,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: even though the numbers are great, it still brings a
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: stress response into my nervous system almost, and we know
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: that freeze is a level two response, right, It's like
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: the most stressed you can be. And so my experience
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: was I had a bipolar dad who could not keep
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: a job to save his life. And so it was
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: the times we had money and times that we didn't.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: If Dad was holding down a job, then we had money.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: My mom was a dental hygienist, so you know, it
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: was really tough to live just on her salary. But
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: it was so up and down. We never knew when
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: we were going to get off the bus and Dad
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: lost another job, Well we have to cut out your
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: dance lessons. Well we have to. You know, you don't
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: get new clothes for school, okay. And so you know,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: we've been lower middle class than there were times we
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: were more upper middle class. Now you know, I'm financially
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: but I still I don't want anything to do with
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: looking at the money, the numbers. So I don't know
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: where that's coming from. Like I'm trying to find out
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: why I'm still in this sort of nervous system response
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: to money. So give us some feedback based on what
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: we've told you.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Well, I think.
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: Money's a catalyst, and so I think one of the
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: things that I've experienced in working with people is there
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: are certain scripts that we have that serve us for
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: a long time and then ended up being dysfunctional in
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: other contexts. Right, So, speaking from personal experience, one of
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: my first memory, I have several memories about money. One
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: was when my dad died and realizing that as a
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: teacher and as my mom being a office manager for
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: dental practice at the time, we had neighbors and growing
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: up in a rural environment, your neighbor neighbors are basically family,
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: and I remember they came down. My dad was his
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: he was very, very intelligent, gifted in many ways despite
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: some of his faults, and she was like, you know,
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: your dad was a really smart man. There's this type
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: of insurance that pays off your bills when you die,
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: Like I'm sure he had it and he didn't, and
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  Speaker 5: it was I remember deciding, Like I remember the moment
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: on the couch when we realized that, and I was like,
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: I will never have to worry about this, like, and
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: I don't think it was a conscious thing.
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  Speaker 4: I was the oldest.
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: I have two older brothers, but from a different marriage
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: I didn't really know. And that was one of the
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: gifts of losing my dad is through that process I
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: got to form relationship with them.
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  Speaker 4: So how God.
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: Works that way, But it was this very powerful and
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: potent memory for me, and for a long time, operating
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  Speaker 5: in that place of scarcity enabled me to do things
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  Speaker 5: and have discipline that forced me forward in a way
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: that I needed to to get.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: To where I was going.
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: And it was very effective. And then there was a
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: time where that didn't work as well. And so what
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: I would what I often encourage people the space and
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: there's likely some things that are helpful about how you've
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: frozen about money or the scare that's been helpful. Right,
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  Speaker 5: So like if you're tempted to spend money, there is
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: a certain element.
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  Speaker 2: Right, I love to money.
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  Speaker 5: But what I'm saying is what I'm saying is this desire.
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  Speaker 5: So like let's if we explore so this this idea
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  Speaker 5: like I need to live in the present because it
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: might not be there. It's not an inherently bad thing.
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  Speaker 5: It's a tool in your toolbox that has served you
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: in some contexts. So I think when you're fully able
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: to examine both the gift of that and the downside,
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: like and actually like enjoy that for what it is
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  Speaker 5: is really important. Similar to how like if someone's trying
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: to quit smoking tobat like if you take tobacco completely unrelated,
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: but it's a behavioral change element. So a lot of
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: times people like most of the time people know they
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: should change.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: It's a shame based thing.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm fully aware here, right, But.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: What about that behavior is healthy?
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: Like there are some elements of it, Like if I'm
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: going out on a cigarette break, there's likely friendships that
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: I have tied to that I get a fifteen minute break,
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: I might go on a walk. It's my time, right,
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: whatever those things are about that understanding what's effective and
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: useful for you is also helpful, So like there might
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: you know, I'm guessing here, but like there's probably elements
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: of this that's like there's that discomfort and then obviously
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: you guys know how to like gradually expose yourself to that.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: It's probably very relatable to.
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: These relationship traumas, right, So I think that's that's a
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: way to do that. I also think relationship with other
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: people can be helpful, you know, marital relationships specifically can
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: be really powerful. And understanding that money is just an
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: emotional tool. I'll make one other comment about this and
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: kind of tied to a personal story.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: So one of the places.
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: So this being in this position of scarcity really helped
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: me drive this narrative of financial provision. And I think
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: so if we believe that money or anything we have
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: isn't ours, and that's a guiding belief that I try
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: to internalize, I'm aspiring to always do that as a
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: person of faith, then really I'm trying to practice stewardship.
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: I would say there's three components of stewardship. The first
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: is obviously provision. Right, So there's scripture in the Bible
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: that says, hey, you've got to It implies the pariable
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: of talents, kind of implies that you've got this moral
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: obligation to steward well, what you've been blessed with. Right,
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: So you' all have expertise y'all have trust, you have
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: people that you have people's attention, You feel an ethical
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: responsibility and you can hear it in your desire to
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: do right by people, this responsibility to provide and do right.
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: There the reason why you save money is to provide
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: for the future where you're not able to work or
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: you no longer want to work. It's not to just
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: pile on more tools, just like you wouldn't buy more
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: hammers for the sake of more hammers, and again easier
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: said than done. Right, that's one element of money, but
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: there's two other elements of stewardship in general. There's contentment
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: and enjoyment, and combining those three together is I think
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: it takes a lifetime to practice. And if you're good,
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: usually there's two out of three that you're doing reasonably
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: well and there's one you need to work on. So
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: one of the ways that I was sort of able
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: to repair my scarcity issues, I got to a point
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: where I no longer needed to behave that way. And
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: there was as a kid, I remember visually kind of
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: attaching to the idea of buying a Ford Raptor. It's
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: like a guy truck thing, right, And there was a
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: point in my career where I was able, I was like,
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: you know what if I could ever just had the
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: cash shades to buy that thing, and it's not going
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: to jeopardize them any goals, I'm going to do it.
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: I sat on that bucket of money for three years
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: and then I finally did it. And it was not
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: about the material object, and I mean I prayed about
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: I mean it took a long time. I'm kind of
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: stubborn that way at times. But what's incredible about that
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: is by me celebrating and enjoying that, it actually enabled
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: me to give more in the contentment side, because it
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: kind of freed me up from that position of scarcity.
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: So just like how sometimes our behavior like we're more
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: predictably irrational than rational that should of like, well I
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: should do this. It's not a linear process, yeah, and
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: working and you probably know this, but in my instance,
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: like I bought that truck and my desire to give more,
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: how much better it felt, and even giving of my time,
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: which I think is harder to do now, which I'll
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: probably relate to as your success has gone up. It's
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: this combination of things that comes together, and that's really
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: what you want like, we all know someone that's got
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: more than enough money that isn't happy. So that practice
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: of contentment and enjoyment, celebrating what we've been blessed with
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: giving breaks the power that money has over over us.
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: But it isn't just about giving money. It's oftentimes the
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: things that are most sort of sacred to you or
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: that you value.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Most, right.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And I will say in relation to that, most of
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: my money is spent on other people.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people, I love, you.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Know, so because it brings me so much enjoyment to
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: do that. And I like to give my money away
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: too too, you know. It makes me, you know, feel
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: like I'm being a steward of the blessings that have
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: been bestowed upon me. Yeah.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I love that answer because I mean that
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: is a true answer, biblical answer. I mean God, you know,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: he tells us like nothing on this earth is ours,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: not even our own body as ours, you know, And
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: so we are to be good stewards of the blessings
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: that we've been given. And I try to keep that
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: in mind. And I remember there was a church sermon
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: last year at some point that it was like, hey,
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: you know, try to up your giving to the church.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: And just bet on God and see what he does
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: in your life, Like, just bet on God. And I mean,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: of course, yeah, they're trying to get you know, church financed, right,
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, I was like, you know what,
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm going to do that, and I nearly doubled,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: you know what I was, what I felt like was
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: already a very generous contribution to the church. And that's
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: when exactly when my business exploded and my finance is
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: drastically changed, and so you know, and it's but it's
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: still hard sometimes because like June was a very slow
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: month for us, July is looking a little bit slow,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: and there's that initial sort of fear that just juts
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: into you that's like, oh wow. But if something's fundamentally shifted, right,
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: like the TikTok algorithm is shifted, or something is working, Toad, you, toad,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: have we saturated our audience? You know? What have we done?
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: But I'm like, no, I have to stop myself from
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: thinking that way. I have to stop myself from going
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: back to scarcity mindset. I do believe somewhat in the
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: law of attraction, but I'm just I personally. The only
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: thing that gets me out of that is focusing on
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: the mission of Like, No, my job is to help
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: people here, and whatever comes from that comes from that,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: I'll be okay. I've lived way more scarce than I
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: am right now, and if I ever had to go
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: back to that, I would still be okay. But my
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: goal here is to teach people how to love, and
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: as long as I don't stray away from that, I'm
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: fundamentally going to be fulfilled. And the money it's just
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: a bonus that's right for me.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I have a question just because I think it's interesting,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and this is based on what you said, and this
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: is for you, Doc, when because you spoke about, you know,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: your life circumstance at a young age, you loved your dad,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: your family was in financial distress, and you saw this
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: and had the thought, this will never happen to me.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: So I'm curious your take, doc on what do you
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: think is the difference between the person who has that
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: thought and the person that doesn't have that thought. Hm.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: I think the person that has that thought that their
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: nervous system is capable of being proactive. So even if
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: it's in like a fight or flight state, that's still
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: a can do state, right, it's a sense of urgency.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: It's a sense of like, no, I need to run
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: with this right, whereas like me, I'm a little more frozen,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: so I'm not acting right. The state of freeze is
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: in action, it's self protection. And so I think it
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: probably has to do with what did that kind of
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: trauma do to you and how your nervous system functions
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: around that specific specific topic. Like for me, you know,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: I am very frozen around money right now. But after
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: my ex died and he signed over all the life
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: insurance to his new wife, my kids got absolutely nothing.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: He had a lot of money in the bank, he
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: had like he was an addict and he was really struggling,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: so he withdrew all of his retirement, which was a
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: pretty considerable amount of money, and she got all of them.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: She got everything. Yeah, and my kids got zero. And
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: that's when I took out I have three very large
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: life insurance policies, two out of the three being you
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: know what do they call whole life or like variable
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: life insurance that doesn't ever go away, and one is
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: a term policy. And people are like, you're so dumb
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: for taking out all this life insurance, and everybody that
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: I've told that that knows anything about money, was like,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: why do you have this much life insurance? I was like,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: because I saw firsthand what it did to me and
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: my girls not having their dad's support in their life
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: after he died, and then there's like forever no support, right,
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: and so it's like that was so scary to me
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: that it almost it jetted me into action in that way,
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: you know, it put me into like this real fighter
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: like panicky state.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And what were you falling your siblings?
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Sorry, what about the siblings?
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: Where do you fall in your So in most of
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: my life in my while I was a kid, I
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: was the oldest sibling.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: That makes sense, Yeah, yeah, but.
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: I want to this is your response is like teed
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: up because it's the heart of what and their scripture
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: about this, and I don't remember exactly how.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: There's so much here that could spent a long time on.
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: So the first thing that I felt called to share
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: is there's there's scripture and I'm going to kind of
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: mess it up a little bit, but essentially it goes,
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: both wisdom and inherence are good thing and benefits those
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: that see the sun. But if the son in this
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: case being Jesus, and if you're a non believer, the
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: virtues that you know, maintaining upward aim and benefits those
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: who see the sun. But if you have to err
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: on one side, are on wisdom. So you've essentially lived
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: the example of there are people that inherent large bucket
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: of money and I don't we don't want a guss
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: about whoever got the money, But essentially you were gifted
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: a catalyst of this compost, stacked on top of the
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: virtues that you found through your faith journey, et cetera.
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: Now you're here, so you've literally lived this example.
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: And yet there's still this element of like, Okay, it's
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: not about what the life insurance, it's not about the
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: dollar amount.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: It's about the fact.
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: That you've associated deep meaning with providing in this context
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: because you know what it's like to not have that
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: and the depth of it. And if you had to
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: air on one side and like sort of think about that,
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: it's like, well, if you could only choose, I'm going
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: to pass on you know, secure attachment and all this
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: sort of loving capacity in my kids or this large
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: bank account, you'd probably err with the former, right, because
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: you know the potential of that right. I think that's
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: what's so hard about money is we ascribe all this
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: potential to it, and we project all these things on it,
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: just like we do in our romantic relationships to our partner.
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: And then when you look behind this scenes, oftentimes it's like, oh,
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: what does that say about me?
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: It becomes kind of a mirror.
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: About this And it's not necessarily like your decision to
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: buy life insurance is right or wrong.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: It's like the why behind it. I know it sounds
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: kind of like a guru answer, but it's so true.
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: Like literally, scripture talks about this, right, And if you
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: could er on one side, it's like, well, most people
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: would agree that that's not the best last one testament
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: that a father wants to leave their kids that emotional experience, right,
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: And so you've convicted yourself this is what I want
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: to do now because of that.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Right, And it was so confusing to me, like why
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: he made those choices? But then again, I know why
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: he made those choices. We had an extremely contentious divorce.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: We had just finished an extreme or we're about to
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: finish an extremely contentious custody battle. He didn't like me, right, right,
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: and he didn't plan on dying. Sure, right, So he's thinking, Okay,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: I'm going to make these changes now that I got remarried,
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: and you know, then someday, you know, she would her
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: getting that, you know, fifteen twenty years, thirty years down
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: the line would have made a lot of sense, whereas
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: you know, here we had only been divorced a year
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: and a half and he had already been remarried, and then,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: you know, and I'm not knocking her. I mean her
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: and I I would consider have a cordial, you know, relationship.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: I understand why she kept what she did. I mean,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: she felt very justified and as the rightful owner of
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: that money because that was his last wish, that was
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: where his wishes, those were his wishes. And so I
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: am not, you know, in any way trying to drag
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: her through the mud, but I think that it was
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: kind of a shock that I was expecting that this
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: was going to be there and then it wasn't there.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Because I remember one of the last things I asked him,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: you know, when he got out of rehab, I said,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: are you still paying for the life insurance policy that
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: covers me? Have you made any changes to the beneficiaries?
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: You know, because you're getting remarried, and he said, no,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: it still goes to you. And then finding that, like
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: I remember the phone call of finding out like, no,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: you're not the beneficiary of this money, and it was
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: just like another another huge slam when I was already
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: so traumatized, and I had that exact same thought, my
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: girls will never go through this. If something happens to me,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: God forbid, they will be they will be financially secure. Well.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: And what a beautiful thing, because of course, you know,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: like you said, it catapulted you to exactly where you
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: are now, And say you had gotten a huge inheritance,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: you know from I mean sadly from his death.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Would it have brought you to this place?
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: No?
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Probably not.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: I probably really needed to struggle and order and thank
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: goodness for Social Security death benefits. I mean that came
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: in so so clutch when I needed it because I
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: had bought a house, I had built my life around him, providing,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: you know, support for my children. And then it was like,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to might have Sell's
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: house and like run in a really tiny apartment. Am
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: I gonna What am I gonna have to do? And
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: by the grace of God, we made it. But it
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: was a blow at that time. But now you know,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: God has shown me like you never needed that money. Yeah,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: you never did need that money. That money blessed somebody
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: else in their life, and that's okay.
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know.
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: So you talk about how essentially you have this this
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: act of faith that you know you made this gift,
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: a sacrificial gift, it was a conscious choice in church,
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: and then you happen to be blessed. There are so
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: many stories in the Bible about this, and like I've
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: been spending a lot of time thinking about Cain and
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: Abel and just sort of the implications of this and
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: how we live this. All the time, you were in
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: a position where you didn't really know what was on
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: the other side, but you decided to give your best anyway, right,
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: And sometimes when we go through involuntary suffering, I mean,
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: we can say we have a choice, and we do.
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: You guys work with couples and people all the time
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: that don't believe they have.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: A choice, but they really do.
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: Okay, So, but the real truth of a deep, meaningful
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: life is we actually don't have a choice.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: Everything's a sacrifice.
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: And what I mean by that is if you look
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: at how like Cain and able to experience their life.
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: So you essentially, for those unfamiliar, you essentially have one
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: brother who, despite not knowing what's going to happen with harvest, etc.
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: Decides to give the very best sacrifice all the time.
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: And I would say, in everyday life, sacrifice is any choice.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: You know you have to give your time at a minimum, right,
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: So any choice is a sacrifice. Then you have another
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: brother Cain over here that says, hey, God, why not me?
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: Essentially right?
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: And there's kind of this tension because God essentially comes
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: down and says, well, honestly, you're not really given your best.
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: And that's a really hard thing sometimes, that accountability to
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: really sit with, right, especially when we're dealing with shame
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: or whatever else. Right, or we just have to have
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: faith that God's calling us into something because we don't
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: even see our own potential, which is oftentimes what happens
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: with deep involuntary suffering, which is again why Jesus is
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: just such a neat even if you don't believe, like
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: why that story is so captivating and what happens when
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: you don't respond to that and decide to give your
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: best anyways, because that's really the only choice that we have.
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: You build the spirit of resentment, and decades and generations later,
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: Kine's legacy is weapons of destruction and war, and that
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: is no legacy that we want to be a part of. Right,
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: And so you think about generational trauma and all these
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: other kind of things. I think it's non traditional advice,
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: but there's a psalm. You know, when you're feeling overwhelmed,
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: you don't know what to do, Delight yourself from the Lord,
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: and he will give you the desires of your heart. Now,
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: I do think that there is some implication for divine providence.
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: I've experienced that. But the deeper meaning behind that, in
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: my opinion, is when I'm feeling really overwhelmed, or when
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: I've had just tremendous amounts of suffering in my life,
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: to pray about it and surrender to not really knowing
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: is a really powerful thing to do. It's the opposite
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: of what a lot of times our culture tells us
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: to do Hustle through it, push through it, etc. And
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: I don't mean to say that there are sometimes where
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: you want to push that extra weight in the gym.
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: That's also possible, but there's also sometimes where getting down
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: on your knees and surrendering and just asking for help
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: is a very powerful thing to do, for sure, And
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: sometimes you really don't have the choice and you convince
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: yourself of otherwise, right, Like that's a it's a very
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: humbling thing to go through. And to your point, if
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: you hadn't gone through that suffering, would you be where
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: you're at now? Like set aside even the money, but like,
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: how many lives have you been able to touch because.
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: Somehow you were called and drawn forward? Money is a.
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: Byproduct of that, right, right, and it becomes us catalyst
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: to do that. It makes sense why you freeze, like
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: you will know it. It's just kind of working through
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: the emotions of it.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do want to talk a little bit about,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: you know, shame and its correlation with maybe you know,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: spending right, because this is I think what I can
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: speak on personally from my personal experience, is that spending
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: money it's not rocket science. It gives you dopamine. Its right,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: So it makes me feel good when I do it.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I like getting a new outfit and putting it on
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and being like, oh I feel so pretty, I feel
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: so great.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Life is good.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Now right, And so I think, you know, I want
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: to ask the experts here and for our listeners, and
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's important just to talk a little bit
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: about the correlation between shame and spending.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, who wants to go for?
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: I think it's just part of what we call psychology
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: the hodonic treadmill, which is just like this idea that
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: we had the spaceline level of happiness and that when
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: we spend money, for example, it gives us that little
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Russia dopamine that elevates our happiness a little bit. But
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: then eventually, like that new dress or whatever you bought
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: is going to hang in your closet, it's not new anymore,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: it doesn't serve that purpose anymore. So you dip back
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: down to your baseline. And we stay on this treadmill
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: right where essentially we've assigned our happiness to the result
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: of our circumstances, maybe what we can spend or things
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: or even experiences that we and joy. But we have
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: to contrast that with what joy is and how we
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: actually cultivate joy, and joy is really cultivated through in
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: my experience two things for me personally, faith. You know,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: there is a joy in the Lord that can't be
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: explained or bought. You know, really you have to I
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: think have deeply experienced it. And then safety. We know
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: that the nervous system in its safest state of ventral
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: vagle or parasympathetic activity, is where we can truly access joy.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: And a lot of my clients who have been perpetually
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: dysregulated in their entire life have never truly experienced joy,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: which is this deep sense of contentment no matter what
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: really the circumstances are. Because circumstances ebb and flow and change.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Wow, there is a lot follow that one up.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: I'll try. I think.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: One of the things I have been really curious about
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: is is the paradox of ambition with contentment. And the
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: only way that I've I'm aspiring to experience both as
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: a human being is.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: Through the practice of faith.
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: Because they're contradictions, right, so so much of it. It's like, Oh,
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: I hustle, I hustle, I hustle to feel contentment. And
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: let's just say you won the lottery, what are you
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: going to do with your time and your talent? Because
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: they literally print more money every day, you would want
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: to do something with it. Now, there's only so many
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: you know, lake boating adventures while you're drinking surveysas that
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: you can have before you're like, well, I'm fin a
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: little bit of this, right, And so that hedonism or
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: you know, the hedonism is you know, excess too far.
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: And at the same time, there is an unhealthy place
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: where you don't celebrate at all. Right, all these things
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: are sort of contradictions or paradoxes, and in my opinion,
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: they only make sense in the context of faith because
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: I can't understand why it is that way. I'm just
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: trying to appreciate the beauty of the tension of those things,
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: and so I think trying to make space for the
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: inherent contradictions.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: So there are there are times where I still spend
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: money and I'm like, why did I do that? So
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: my goal is not to be someone that never makes
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: a mistake. My goal is to create a framework or
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: parameters or a system, a relational container, right that is
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: where I'm able to experience the best of my human condition,
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: knowing myself, et cetera, and still maintain that upward ding
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: whatever that is, right, not without mistakes, not without forgiveness,
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: not without grace, and at the same time still trying
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: to pursue for better, larger than life, whatever that means
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: for me personally, my values and what I want for
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: the vision for my life.
• 30:38
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know I can get stuck. And when you
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: It feels like I'm just okay, what's the next level, right,
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  Speaker 3: need to beat this level. I need to master this level,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: and then I get to the next level, and it
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: can get a little bit addicting. I mean, I remember
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: when I started to leave my job and I was
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: the program director of two graduate programs, Society and PhD
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: in clinical psychology. I was literally unless I would have
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: been promoted to dean, I was at the top of
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: my field. I mean most people would say, wow, you know,
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: being a program director in academia, that's very high up there, right,
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: instead of being like a dan or the president. That's
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: you're going to top out there. And I was making
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: forty three hundred dollars a month, and I remember looking
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: at my husband and saying, if I can just coach
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: enough clients to make forty three hundred dollars a month,
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: I'll be okay. And so when he shows me the books,
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: and he you know, because every week it gives me
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: a screenshot of quick books, which I don't like to
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: look at, but he's like, no, you need to know.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: I'm just and then I get down. If you know,
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: if sales are down or whatever, He's like, remember when
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: you said you just needed to make forty three hundred
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: dollars a month. Can you go back to that place
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: for a second, to just get back you know, remember
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: where you know where you have been, and you know,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: it's incredible to me that you can get on this
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: trajectory where it just doesn't seem like enough, like you
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: need to keep going to the next level. And there's
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: a part of me again where there's that ambition, right,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: and there's and that makes you successful, but also being
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: able to ebb and flow and have the contentment and
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: have the enjoyment peace to it as well as the
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: giving peace. And so that's why I think part of
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: me is just like stay focused on the mission. Just
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: stay focused on the mission, and then the money is
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: what it is, right, because that's not why I'm doing
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: what I'm doing. I'm doing what I'm doing because I'm
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: called to God. But also have I become a little
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: bougie and do I like nice things? I do? I
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: like nice things.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Thinks that that's okay?
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: You know, I think that that's you know, I mean,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I I don't feel necessarily guilt over wanting to take
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: care of myself and and be good to myself and
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: buy myself.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like fine leather.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: But I think where mine mostly comes from is.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Just having limits, right, like having limits around those things
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: and wanting, like you said, at all times to really
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: think about where it is I want to go. And
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: it's difficult. It's been difficult for me to think in
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: those terms, right, And you know, I'm a newlywed, and
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I will say, and I think this is a good
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: segue where I want to take this, is that marriage
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: is changing this for me, and it is giving me
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: this different and new perspective one because I have this
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: other person who is one with me that I have
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: to think about in terms of our future, if something
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: happened to him, if something happened to me, And these
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: are things I've never had to think about in the past.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: And so I think this is a good segue to
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: where I want to take this.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: And really, I think, again, what's so valuable for our
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: listeners who are in marriages where finances and we all
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: know it problem.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: It's the leading cause of divorce.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: And so you know, I want to touch on this
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: with both of you, of course, but specifically with you Clint,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: because you are a financial advisor and an expert. But
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: you know, logistically speaking, you know, if someone is in
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: a marriage and they're having finance issues.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: What would And I know you're not a counselor, but.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: You sort of are. You know, you're a financial counselor.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Where would you tell them to start?
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: Man, Okay, So I know that people say that finances.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: Are the cause of divorce.
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, my experience is that that's that's that's a way
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: that it gets expressed, right, And it's it's hard because
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: I don't think people realize, like if the idea of
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: marriage in our society was sold as the true cost
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: of marriage or what you're signing up for a sacrifice
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: in death, no one had raised their hand, right, It's
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: like we buy into the vision of like the songs
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: and the pictures and all those other kind of things.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: I think therapy is very helpful.
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: I also think if you can before you get married,
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: I mean, finances have to be something you talk about.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: And it's more so talking about but looking at behaviors,
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: because my experience is that if you can't come to
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: terms on that, that's one of those places that's very
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: difficult to.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: Reconcile after the fact. Like it just is.
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: And I'm not trying to be discouraging to anyone, but
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: if you're in that place like it's a very It's
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: kind of like all the questions you guys get on
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: like the DA Right, It's like, if you can try
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: to manage that upfront, that's possible. Now what happens when
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: you're inside of that that depends on the context, right.
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: I don't think that there's any one script that works
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: for every couple. What's really and I think fate both
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: of you are providing for one another in the marriage,
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: and not just financially, but it could be you know,
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: I deal, I have this responsibility in our household, this
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: person has this one right, recognizing and coming back to
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: that importance, how are we providing for one another? And
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: what is what does the money do for us in
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: terms of that provision is really really important? So you know,
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: take life insurance right that you're talking about earlier.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: Well, if one of.
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: You passed away and you guys have co commitments together
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: like living in a house or those kind of things,
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: to some extent, you guys probably have implied or promised
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: to one another responsibility to provide for one another that
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: way in a way that's not disruptive, whether it in
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: a certain context, under a certain timeframe.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: That's one way to look at it right.
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: So there are these ways where if you have a
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: framework of providing for one another, then you can divide
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: and conquer. There aren't any sort of hard and fast rules,
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: you know, some usually there is one spouse that is
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: more money inclined than the other, but that doesn't look
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: the same for everybody. So sometimes there are folks that
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: are very inclined to be like, you know, the budget
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: keeper and managing the books, et cetera, but they don't
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: necessarily know how to think at a thirty thousand foot
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: view right. And so that a lot of times where
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: a financial advisor or someone that can help step in
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: as a facilitator is allowing both spouses to participate versus
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: in the face scilitator role because the other thing where
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: just like how some marital dynamics, you can have one
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: partner that kind of becomes apparent to child relationship in
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: terms of the subconscious trauma. Money's a delicate thing too.
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: I also think there are times when I and I
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: don't know if this is in our culture right now
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: or what, but there can be tension between genders, specifically
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: with gender roles and money and provision and assumptions and expectations,
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: I think communicating those and some of the tensions that
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: you know, for example, if like I was reading some
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: statistics the other day, just like thinking about relationships and stuff,
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: and like most women want a guy that's six foot one,
• 39:40
  Speaker 5: makes more than one hundred thousand dollars a year, has
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: an athletic bill, all these other kind of things. And
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: I'm not trying to say lower your standards, but that's
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: a very rare percentage of population, right, And also we
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: all want to feel deeply.
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: Loved beyond those things, absolutely right.
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: So it's like, I think it's it's not pretending that
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: that doesn't exist, but I think true intimacy the ability
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: to sort of acknowledge those things, and the choice consciously
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: to choose others, and like, where am I willing to
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: give up versus not right?
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: And not pushing someone into changing too quickly?
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, because I think change. Yeah.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: I think that I can speak for myself and Josh.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Josh is definitely the more responsible when it comes to money.
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: What's an example of that, Because we've talked several times,
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: and you tend to frame yourself in a way where
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: your response like what can.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: You give me an example, well, you know, vulnerable here
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: because it's so funny though, because we share an Amazon
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: account because of our influencer status. Right, so we share
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: an Amazon account and it's just like my emails like
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: the ding ding ding, like and I'm like, I didn't
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: buy any of this, right yeah.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think so.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, I tend to be a little frivolous in the
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: things that I think I need. You know, it's not
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: even like a wan I'm like, I think I need this,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I think I need We're just the.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: Most influenced, easily influenced people. I'm very easily influenced, Like
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: TikTok shop will get me every single time.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: So you know, it's the it's you know, the good
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: old regular you know, the husband comes home and there's
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: four Amazon boxes on the porch and.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: It's like, what are you doing?
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: Do we really need this stuff? What do we just
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: like it?
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And you know, so that's an example.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: So it's not like I'm not going out dropping ten
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: grand on a Louis Vauton or anything like that, Like I'm.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Not yet, but you know.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: There'll be an element, right, keep going, Yeah.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: But I you know I think that well, it's it's
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: that age old like, okay, well, if you're spending five
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: dollars on fifteen million different things, then technically you are
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: dropping a frivolous ten thousand dollars on just things. And
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: so my husband, of course, being the more logical one,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: is standing back, not push not pushing me too hard,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: because here's the condundrum. I'll be like, help me, help me,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: help me stop. And then he'll be like, babe, why
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: are you spending this money? Like, don't tell me how
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: I spend my money, you know. And so there's this
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: this contradiction there where he's like, you know, you asked
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: me to help, and he's a beautiful partner and he'd
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: and he in every single way. I mean, I can't
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: speak highly enough of my my husband, of course, but
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: because he does allow me this room because it is
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: about me, it's about me, and and this is where
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to in terms of my own
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: journey and my own struggle.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: What's the root calls?
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: There's full awareness here, right, I have full awareness of
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: the things.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I'm doing, But why why am I doing it? And
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: how do I stop it?
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: So I think that that's an important lifetime journey and
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: how do you make progress now? So a couple of
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: frameworks and a story if I don't get too all
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: over them, because there's like, it's very stimulating this conversation.
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: So I've noticed that some personalities are more motivated by
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: the risk of loss and others are more focused on
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: like maximizing opportunity rights. Yes, yeah, and you might be
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: more focused on loss. I don't know, but just kind
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: of sensing this dynamic. So even if I want to
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: be effective in reaching you, rather than me focusing on
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: all the ways you can stop spending money, I might say, Okay,
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: you're content right now, Like we'd both agree on that, right,
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: So seventy five percent of all future dollars for the
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: next twenty four months you're committing to save. There's not
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: a lot of pain associated with that, right, that's going
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: to seem less costly than me saying you can't buy
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: any more Amazon purchases. I think creating working with someone's
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: capacity to change, that's a that's a way to sort
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: of address that solution, right, because someone Sometimes people are
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: more motivated by the prospect of making more. Now, you
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: still got to solve that, right, because if you make
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: more only to spend more and lifestyle creeps a real thing.
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: But there are elements of well, how do I make
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: progress right now?
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: There's also like there's never going to be a better
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: time to like go to the gym or plan a
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: tree the best times today, So sometimes people get stuck
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: of letting perfect get in the way of good. It's
• 44:22
  Speaker 5: not like you don't have to buy any Amazon purchases,
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: but maybe you make an agreement that you're going to
• 44:26
  Speaker 5: look at your Amazon spend every twelve every month, and
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: whatever you do spend on that, you're going to commit
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: to putting x amount in this account that you don't
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: have access to or can't see. So there's ways to
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: make progress that don't have to get to the root cause,
• 44:39
  Speaker 5: even though you can sort of because the realities were
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: always growing or responding in some way. And even if
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: you knew the root cause, you still got to make
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: progress right now because there's an opportunity cost associated with
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: doing nothing, you know, versus that the other thing.
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you relatively, this problem never goes away.
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: So about a decade ago, I was working with a
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: client and they went through this really large liquidity event
• 45:04
  Speaker 5: where they sold their company and there were millions of
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: dollars involved, and when we met, we were talking and planning,
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: et cetera.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: I was like, well how much.
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: You know, we went through a budgeting process kind of
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: the whole thing, because we're trying to figure out what
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: their investments need to do to generate income for themself
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: have to worry about working anymore. And he was like, well,
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: I live pretty pretty frugally. I only need about thirty
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: thousand dollars. And I'm like, yeah, that is pretty frugly man.
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: Thirty thousand, Yeah, thirty thousand a month. Now to most
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: people that's a high amount of money, but he at
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: the time was making almost a million and a half
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: dollars a year, so relatively speaking, he was living on
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: a third of his income most people would. So it
• 45:40
  Speaker 5: becomes this relative problem, right, and the stakes never go away.
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: So you have to commit to mooring the cause and
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: having frameworks. And that's why, to the extent that you
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: money's a catalyst, Like the more money you make, the
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: more exaggerated these issues become. When you go through you'll
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: see this happen with families where they'll have an incredible
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: amount of wealth. But to the extent wealth is transferred
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: and there's not communication about it. Sometimes it's received as
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: lack of affection. That's kind of what you personally experienced earlier.
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: In some ways, it almost would have been better if
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: there was nothing, not for the other person involved, but
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: at least for kids, because at least wouldn't hurt so bad.
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: Even though you're describing all this meaning to something that
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: for all you know, he just had one day. I
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: didn't know this person, but sounds like maybe he was
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: you know, would make a decision that wasn't the most
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: rational thing all the time, right, So it might have
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: had anything literally to do with you, but that isn't
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: how it feels.
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: In the moment.
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: So the things I would tease out there, don't let
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: progress get in the way of or don't let perfection
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: get in the way of making progress like whatever that
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: is for you, because building the muscle of behavior change
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: and building your capacity, just like in relationships, really really important,
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: especially in the MERYLD dynamic. If you and Josh or
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: you know, listeners out there could come to an agreement
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: with their spouse to say, Okay, what is the thing
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: we are going to focus on. We don't have to
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: I don't have to never spend or sort of perfectly
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: resolve this yet, But how can we make progress? Just
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: like how you know with reaching the DA, it might
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: be like this, you know, making your requests so that
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: they're not received as criticism and seeing how they respond.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: Neither person's right or wrong. The problem isn't each other.
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: The problem is we want to focus on being more
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: better stewards, and in this context specifically financial provision. You're
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: not the problem. He's not the problem. The problem is
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: you're trying to get someplace together.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: How can we do that?
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally understand that. I think that's
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: really great advice. I think for me, a game changer
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: was just learning the purpose of money. Like I didn't,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: you know, I grew up in a household where it
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: was go to college, get a job, put your head
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: down and work your job and get a good, decent
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: retirement and then you'll be okay. And I think becoming
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: an entrepreneur shifted my entire awareness of what money can
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: do and what money is for. Whereas you know, I'm
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: not knocking people who have jobs. I mean, jobs are
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: very great thing to have, and you're blessed if you
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: have one, but there is a cap on what you
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: can make. Somebody else is telling you how much money
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: you can make, whereas when you're an entrepreneur, there is
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: some direct correlation between your effort and your strategy and
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: then what lands in the bank account. And that's a
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: fun game to play. But also it helped me learn
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: that money isn't just for paying bills. The purpose of
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: money is to take one dollar and make that dollar
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: make another dollar, right without you having to work for
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: that dollar to make another dollar. And I didn't realize
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: that that was how people got rich. I had no idea,
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: I had no education around money, and so now you know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: I was very late to the game really investing. I
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: mean I had to drain my retirement more than one time,
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: first for my divorce and then for the subsequent post
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: divorce custody battle. And you know, so here I am
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: late thirties. I had nothing right to show for, you know, however,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: many decades of work. Yeah, and so now that I
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: have a little bit of money, I'm very focused on investing.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: We have you know, we're still arding our real estate portfolio,
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: like all of these things. Because I didn't realize that
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: the purpose of money wasn't just to pay bills and
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: then whenever you had left over, you spend it have
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: fun with right, Right. And it's also more than also
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: just having this savings account that's not growing, right. I
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: want every dollar that I have to potentially make me
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: another dollar somehow. Yeah, and learning that that's possible and
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: learning how people do that was it blew my mind
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: and it shouldn't have blown my mind. I was like,
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: how did I get through life at this point not
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: realizing that this is how people become wealthy. They make
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: their money work for them. So talk to us a
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: little bit about that and that mind shift.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I know, that's.
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: That's really important to call out because I think sometimes
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: I still take for granted that people have gotten to
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: that point where it's like, oh, you understand like what
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: compounding is.
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know.
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: If you like, I think it could be helpful to
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: literally take a calculator and just you know, double something
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: for days. It's really really powerful. You know, most people
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: understand what something when something goes viral. Compounding doesn't quite
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: work like that. It works in a linear way versus
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: exponential way. But having your money work for you essentially
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: takes your future self and it says, you know what,
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: future self, I'm going to make a sacrifice today so
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: that you don't so that your time can be allocated
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: someplace else. Because I think really what you're trying to
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: do is create time for yourself so that you don't
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: you might you might do this if you didn't have
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: to make money, right, you might enjoy it that much.
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: Especially these podcasts and stuff. He seem fulfilled by them?
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Is the goal?
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And it kind of comes back to this, well,
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: how can my money be used to create time? You know,
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: when you're running your business, you can. You can hire
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: people and get and and employ them to provide those
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: talents to free you up from the things you're not
• 50:47
  Speaker 5: good at or that you don't want to do right,
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: and that gives them the opportunity, et cetera. I think
• 50:51
  Speaker 5: money ultimately is to try to create more time. And
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: then let's just say you're at a place where you
• 50:55
  Speaker 5: got more than enough, you're a financially independent, there's still this,
• 50:59
  Speaker 5: there's still it becomes a force for good. So I
• 51:02
  Speaker 5: would say money it's a tool like anything else, just
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: like your college education, and just like you know, you're
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: marketing your sales and business background, right, So how do
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: you use that tool for good. One of the benefits
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: of being a business owner or being a business that's
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: trying to influence that is you actually start to really
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: connect that money is not inherently good or bad, but
• 51:21
  Speaker 5: it's what you do with it, just like what you
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: do with your knowledge. There's good actors, there's bad actors, right,
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: what you do with that is really what's most important.
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: So there are these levels of progression, right. The first
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: thing is you've got to get to a point where
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: you're actually you're not going backwards, right. And most when
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: you go through a big event like a divorce, right, Like,
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: it's just a financially devastating event for most people. That's
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: just the reality, right, So trying not to have those
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: mistakes occurs number one. But if you're in a situation
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: like that, you've got to resolve at first, because if
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: you build up this large four oh and K and then.
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: Go through a divorce process, it's likely going to get messy.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: So to some ex you know, you want to try
• 51:59
  Speaker 5: to prevent those mistakes if you can, or deal with
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: it and then move forward. Budgeting like just making sure
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: you're not going into credit card debt. You know, if
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: I had the ability to have someone else pay me
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: twenty percent of my money to give them a loan.
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: I would use that all day. That's what the credit cards.
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: You know, why would you pay someone twenty percent? I
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: go online, look at a calculator and look how expensive
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: that is. But people don't understand that. Once you've gotten
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: that baseline, then it's okay. How do I protect from
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: myself from going backwards with like certain products, like if
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: your incomes important, maybe disability insurance, life insurance like you
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: talked about. Right, you maybe have a basic will or trust.
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: Then you can build stuff on top of that. Right,
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: you sort of put these layers in place where you
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: can't go backward. You want to grow your business. You
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: got your income in place. Now you can focus on
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: providing for your future self.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: And celebrating those I think it's important, you know, like
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: because you know, just hearing you talk and really tuning
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: and like I am thinking of some things, you know,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: am iware?
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I want to be no? But hey, I used to
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: never have a savings account. I have savings now, you know.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I mean there are things that I feel like maybe
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: I've done that are better there than I was, you know,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: five years ago. Obviously, you know, being more successful has
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: contributed to that. But you know, I think where we
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: sometimes get stuck is attaching money to our worth. And
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: this is again been my struggle. And I think that
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: if I do take a moment to really step back
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: and say, Okay, well, you know I have I have
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: a savings account, I'm taking one of the best trips
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: that I could have never paid for. You know, five
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: years ago, I don't have credit card debt. I don't
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: like I've paid off my credit card debt, so I'm
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: not buying all these things on credit, you know, whereas
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: maybe again five ten years ago, I would have been
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: doing those things. And so there, I think celebrating small
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: wins like you said that, you know, perfection can't be
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: the goal. That it has to be about building gradually
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: and then celebrating those gradual wins and not attaching shame
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: to it, right, and not attaching our self worth to
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: when maybe we do backslide a little bit or when
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: we do make a mistake with.
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: Me and yeah, and I think it's just getting started
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: to like just actually taking me to do it step.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, working with a working with a wealth management
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: company has been very beneficial. But also I started a
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: stash account a couple of years ago, and it just helps.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: It just takes money out of my account. I mean,
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: it is fun to sort of play with companies and
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: you know, headg your bets a little bit, but I
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: mostly forget about it. And interestingly enough, like last time
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: I looked at it, I mean it's been several years now,
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: it was like seven thousand dollars in there, which is
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: a little play money, it's whatever. I opened it up.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: Yesually it was like twenty grand in there, and I
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: was like, hey, you know, because it's just been automatically,
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: these small amounts of money coming out of my checking
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: account on a regular basis just going in there, and
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: I forgot about it, you know, and I was like, oh, well,
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: now that's it's like a little investment portfolio, right, Like
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: that's great, and it's you know, but something very simple
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: of just taking that stash account out and just having
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: money that you're you know, automatically is going to come
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: out before you spend it. Just taking some initiative to
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: get started, you can build on that.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I going back to like the motivation
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: we were talking about that earlier. It's really nice when
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: your motivation lines up with the behavior change that you
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: need to experience. That's not been the case for me
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: a lot of times. A lot of times I actually
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: have to start the behavior and then it becomes self reinforcing.
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: So a long time ago, I used to chew tobacco
• 55:41
  Speaker 5: and I was really overweight and kind of went through
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: this whole health trend. I mean we're talking twenty plus
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: years ago. And one of the observations I had that
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: when I hung out with certain people, I had a
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: tendency to chew tobacco more often. When I drank alcohol,
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: I had a tendency to you know, relapse in chew
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: tobacco again, eating Mexican food because like I think, capise
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: is in and dopamine for whatever reason.
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: Right, So there are.
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: All these like little tidbits that you learn along the way,
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: and again that progress versus perfection on that comes in.
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: Also going to the gym and doing cardio made me
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: much more likely to want to eat healthier. So ironically enough,
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: like I ended up losing weight through diet through diet primarily,
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: but the exercise helped me adhere to my plan more
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: so it's like weird little things like that. We're Oftentimes
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: these behaviors were like I just got to start that itself.
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: Builds the momentum and the motivation. It becomes a self reinforcing.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like the bottom up process versus the top down process. Right,
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: And it's real because sometimes, you know, social psychologists are
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: deependant variable or outcomes always behavior, and so we've learned
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: that sometimes, Yes, changing your behavior then loops back up
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: and changes the way you think and feel about things. Yes, right,
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: And I think the attachment work I do is a
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: good example of that. We do top down processing right,
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: where we do focus on changing thought patterns. We focus
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: on our nervous system. But sometimes if you can catch
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: something and correct it, even if you started going to
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: I'm not old path, but you make a correction, the
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: outcome then reinforce that you get that's positive, reinforces doing
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: that behavior again. So, yes, bottom up change is real,
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: and sometimes just taking those small steps can be really beneficial.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: And I think you know, this just proves that relationship.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: We have relationship to everything in our life. It's not
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: just romantic, right, So even something that's not per se tangible,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: I know that cash is tangible of course, but you know,
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: money is kind of like in the air now.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: We don't know where it is.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but yeah, so it's it's interesting that even
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: something that's you know, you can't hold in your hand.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: I mean that you still have this deep relationship with
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: it and the same psychological concepts apply to it. And
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: that's why it's important and that and so you're right
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: going back to specifically marriage and finance, and you know
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: the statistics saying that it's the leading cause of divorce,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Well is it.
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's the leading cause.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: I think it's relational. Yeah, it's relational. So people always
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: want to say things like sex or money or whatever
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: leading cause of divorce. No, those are topics by which
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: the dysfunctional dynamic dynamics.
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: It's an easy way to quantify the pain or this right,
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: the disconnect, absolutely.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: But it's really about how people handle and repair, you know,
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: these problems in their relationships. And so I think this
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: is a great place to kind.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Of there anything else you want up? Yeah? Is there
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: anything else you wanted to add?
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is our audience with so valuable. Yes.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: I love the depth of this conversation much so much interesting. Yes,
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: and so at least tell our listeners where they can
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: find you if they want to work with you, because
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: as you can see, uh, this guest is extremely well
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: rounded in terms of his knowledge not just about how
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: to make money work for you, but how to cultivate
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: a positive relationship with money, both within yourself as well
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: as within your couplehood if you're married or you know,
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: tied to somebody else in a relationship.
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: Thanks had I had you not prompted me, and I've
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: forgotten about that, and my my social media colleague would
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: have been given me a hard.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Time seeing you in the background. Hey, tell them where
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: they can.
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: Find Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: So for professional purposes, if you just go on to
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: Google and you type Clint Jasperson my name, purpose Driven
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: Wealth Thrive It that's the parent company I'm affiliated with,
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: you'll be able to find our website, engage with Engage
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: with us that way, And then on the personal side,
• 59:34
  Speaker 5: I'll have him give you my Instagram handle where I'm
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: starting to talk more on the personal side about business, faith, life,
• 59:40
  Speaker 5: et cetera, those kind of things.
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: So we'll include that, Yeah, that.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Description you handle, the description as to where our listeners
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: can can find you, and of course, you know, guys,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: I think ultimately, when it comes to healing, if we're
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: talking about full circle healing, everything plays a role here, money, finances,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, even your relationship, my relationship with this chair,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: my relationship with my car, my relationship with my children.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: All this is full circle.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: And I think that doctor Hinsley does a wonderful job
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: within her practice of bringing all this together so that
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: you can not just be better for your romantic relationship,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: but be better as an individual, be better, a better parent,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: be a better coworker.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's really what attachment is all about.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: Its being a better member of your community and a
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: better steward of the gifts that.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: You've been giving.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: And hopefully that's the main message that we portray here,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: is being a good steward of the things that you know,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: the blessings that have been both bestowed upon you. And
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: again that is our ultimate mission here with the love
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Dog Podcasts and with the lovedoc relationship coaching services. So
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: of course go see doc at the lovedoc dot com
• 1:00:59
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• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: a special promo code that you can use at check
• 1:01:04
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• 1:01:08
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• 1:01:11
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• 1:01:15
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• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: can be a paying member if you're a super fan.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Totally up to you.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: But we're creating a community there for specifically this podcast,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: so you can submit your questions, you know, talk to
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: us specifically, and then we'll bring them back here and
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: answer them. But that's really where you need to go
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: if you want your questions answered.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, we're going to start pulling questions on the regular
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: from our Patreon's account and I'm bringing them here and
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: answering them on the pod.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: That's right, So thank you guys, We love you, and
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: until next time, peace, love, and perspective.