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Should Detroit Tigers Trade For Ke'Bryan Hayes? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
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Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, a Detroit Tigers podcast. I'm Karen
0:12
Speaker 1: Steckley with me as always as a man who is thankful.
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Speaker 1: That is not his job to determine which teenagers are
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Speaker 1: worth a multimillion dollar investment. Tody Stavid Egg and how
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Speaker 1: you doing.
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Speaker 2: Hey, you're doing good here and thank you. And that's
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Speaker 2: probably I think international scouting is the hardest job in
0:29
Speaker 2: baseball for a few reasons. Number one, you're living sometimes
0:33
Speaker 2: in strange places, traveling through different countries, scouting thirteen fourteen
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Speaker 2: year olds, knowing ninety percent of the players you are scouting,
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Speaker 2: or even the ones you sign, are not going to
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Speaker 2: pan out. But it's an annual tradition. We are recording
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Speaker 2: this on the evening of the international signing date. We
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Speaker 2: have the latest class, and of course people are a
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Speaker 2: little bit excited, and you know what, maybe for good reason.
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Speaker 2: This year the Tigers signed Chris Rodriguez, an outfielder from
1:02
Speaker 2: the Dominican Republic. He gets the highest bonus for an
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Speaker 2: international amateur in franchise history, just shy of three point
1:09
Speaker 2: two million dollars, and he dies ranked international amateur at
1:13
Speaker 2: least in the past decade, if not entire franchise history.
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Speaker 2: Pretty talented player getting a lot of play on social media. Again,
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Speaker 2: he's sixteen, so we're probably gonna mostly timber expectations here.
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Speaker 2: But that said, it's a sign of the Tigers being
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Speaker 2: i think more aggressive on the international market. They've followed
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Speaker 2: this kid for years. He developed into a real talent,
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Speaker 2: and today he signs along with several other players from
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Speaker 2: Latin America.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, like a couple of things are true here,
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Speaker 1: Like obviously the profile looks awesome, Like that's not breaking
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Speaker 1: news here. He you know, it's ironic actually that his name,
1:54
Speaker 1: you know, Chris Rodriguez.
1:55
Speaker 3: There's no h in his name.
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Speaker 1: But his hit tool is a thing that people are
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Speaker 1: getting most excited about.
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Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
2:00
Speaker 1: I'll be here all week, Like, you know, I'm not
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Speaker 1: going to try to sit here and try to analyze
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Speaker 1: showcase swings or you know, different level swings from a
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Speaker 1: sixteen year old. He obviously looks like a really good
2:13
Speaker 1: He's a good looking athlete, you know, Like he has
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Speaker 1: a good looking swing for Twitter video, so I'll give
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Speaker 1: him credit for that. And obviously the people whose job
2:22
Speaker 1: you know who you know, at least internal and sometimes
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Speaker 1: external reputation is on the line says, yeah, this guy's
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Speaker 1: worth north of three point one million dollars, so you
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Speaker 1: take all of that into account, not gonna be probably
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Speaker 1: here and a whole lot about him for a while,
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Speaker 1: and that's okay. At the same time, I read these
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Speaker 1: like markups on you know, it's not just him, but
2:43
Speaker 1: like all these other ones, and it's like, you know,
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Speaker 1: he's hit at every level. And my first thought is like, well,
2:48
Speaker 1: he's sixteen. I mean, there's not I can't say that
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Speaker 1: there's probably that many remarkable levels there. But you know,
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Speaker 1: give him credit for you know, doing.
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Speaker 3: What he's supposed to do to put himself in this position.
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Speaker 1: And if you want an indication of how serious the
3:01
Speaker 1: Tigers were, good old boy Scott Harris, friend of the podcast,
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Speaker 1: went went down and was there for the signing, which, uh,
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Speaker 1: you know, it speaks to how much they are excited
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Speaker 1: about him. And also we heard from was a Rob
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Speaker 1: Rob Metzler about him as well, and you know he
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Speaker 1: highlighted and following for years. They said that, you know,
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Speaker 1: they like the makeup of the kid as well, which
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Speaker 1: is cliche, but also at at the same time, like
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Speaker 1: you better like the makeup of the kid if you're
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Speaker 1: going to give him, you know, that kind of money.
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Speaker 1: He comes up a little bit short of Christian Santana's.
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Speaker 3: Bonus.
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Speaker 2: What was at two point nine's bonus?
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Speaker 1: I meant to say it the other way. It was
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Speaker 1: like Santana, he went up just a hair above is
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Speaker 1: what I meant today. So thank you for correct me
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Speaker 1: on that. Uh So, yeah, like I said, the highest
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Speaker 1: you know, Santana's a guy that like we're still kind
3:52
Speaker 1: of waiting for, you know, some sort of pop. So
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Speaker 1: that's just an example of you know, these these things,
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Speaker 1: you know, take time. We talk about play development in
4:00
Speaker 1: the major league level not being linear. Now we're talking
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Speaker 1: about teenagers is unnecessarily gonna be linear. But again, all
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Speaker 1: industry experts agree, is one of the top players available.
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Speaker 1: They were able to get him. Listeners can remember, and
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Speaker 1: we'll talk about this instance here in a second. Listeners
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Speaker 1: will remember that the Tigers make clear at winter meetings
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Speaker 1: to you and your media brethren that they weren't going
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Speaker 1: to sabotage their pre arranged agreements or negotiations with the
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Speaker 1: likes of Chris Rodriguez and some others for the sake
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Speaker 1: of trying to get rookie Sasaki right. So this was
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Speaker 1: a guy that you can very clearly see they were
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Speaker 1: very committed to and it's not just throwing money at him.
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Speaker 1: They were invested in him in multiple ways. And so
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Speaker 1: that is at least worth noting. And also I think
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Speaker 1: a good sign. I would call it a bad organizational
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Speaker 1: look to develop these relationships overseas and then kind of
4:57
Speaker 1: go back. We saw that with some organizations, kind of
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Speaker 1: go back on them when you know, when like a
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Speaker 1: rookie Sisaki comes up. So I do think it is
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Speaker 1: worth giving credit to the organization there. I do feel
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Speaker 1: like they kind of handled this all I think the
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Speaker 1: right way. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: In terms of what to expect from Chris Rodriguez, hard
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Speaker 2: to say. Again. I'm going to reiterate he's sixteen. And
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Speaker 2: I think I've learned from being once really excited about
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Speaker 2: Christian Santana that you just never know Santana is a
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Speaker 2: sub two hundred hitter in his minor league career, even
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Speaker 2: though he walks like crazy. But I have heard Scott
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Speaker 2: Harris in the past talk about Chris rodrig Gets with
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Speaker 2: a little bit of a twinkle in his eye, and
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Speaker 2: Scott's a pretty realistic guy. I don't think he gets
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Speaker 2: like that a lot, you know, So if Scott has
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Speaker 2: some faith in him, I think that tells you something.
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Speaker 2: But you said the hit tool with an H and
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Speaker 2: I think that's going to be the big deciding factor
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Speaker 2: because I think the real tool is the power, the
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Speaker 2: hit for power, he is six foot four and two
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Speaker 2: hundred pounds at sixteen years old, and he can hit
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Speaker 2: the crap out of the ball great bat speed projects
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Speaker 2: you know, the best version of him as a thirty
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Speaker 2: plus homer legiti, middle of the order bat guy. I
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Speaker 2: think that's awesome. My mind does go to like has
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Speaker 2: been six four two hundred at sixteen a good thing
6:15
Speaker 2: or a bad thing. So either you're gonna get huge
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Speaker 2: ended up being a DH or like we probably all
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Speaker 2: like went to high school with a kid who is
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Speaker 2: that that size at fifteen sixteen, and then what usually happens,
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Speaker 2: They stop growing and other people catch up to the
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Speaker 2: physical tools and no longer are they a superstar. That's
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Speaker 2: one of the problems with trying to project sixteen year
6:37
Speaker 2: olds their sixteen year old. Jake Rogers was one of them.
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Speaker 2: Like if you just drafted and signed guys based on
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Speaker 2: that age, like they probably would not be in the
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Speaker 2: major league right now, So that's there. How good is
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Speaker 2: the actual hit tool? Seems to be what the scouting
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Speaker 2: reports out there kind of disagree on. The Tigers. Miguel Garcia,
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Speaker 2: their director of Latin American operations, definitely thinks he can
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Speaker 2: hit for contact, but sounds like there's some early swing
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Speaker 2: and misconcerns. The Twitter videos of his swing man looks
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Speaker 2: pretty smooth. He's got this little a rod leg kick
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Speaker 2: and finish that I love, but it sounds like in
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Speaker 2: a game against really higher in velocity, the swing can
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Speaker 2: get a little bit long. He's obviously only going to
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Speaker 2: face better and better pitching, more legit breaking stuff and
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Speaker 2: more ninety five plus velocity as he develops, So a
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Speaker 2: lot to figure out there too. I don't think he's
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Speaker 2: going to chase at the rate of like a Roberto Compost,
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Speaker 2: But is the swing and miss going to keep him
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Speaker 2: from like getting to that power in games? I think
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Speaker 2: that's going to be the big thing to look for
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Speaker 2: in the next two to three years as Chris Rodriguez
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Speaker 2: rises up the ranks. The overall profile, like size, potential, swing,
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Speaker 2: and miss could represent a low floor. At the same time,
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Speaker 2: the size the raw power could represent a very high ceiling.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you robbed me of my two talking points there.
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Speaker 1: Number one, is it just you just look at the swing.
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Speaker 1: You say, this definitely has the potential to be long.
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Speaker 1: So I'm no swing doctor, but I feel like it
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Speaker 1: does have the potential to be long. And then the
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Speaker 1: scout reports talk about the swing and miss stuff again
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Speaker 1: sixteen years old like that, if you hit for power
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Speaker 1: as your number one tool and you're sixteen years old,
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Speaker 1: most likely you have some swing miss as a backdrop there.
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Speaker 1: I did want to say he was the number one
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Speaker 1: outfield prospect him on international prospects, So where that's worth?
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Speaker 1: And the markup on MLB pipeline hit fifty seventy power,
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Speaker 1: run fifty arms, sixty field forty five overall is sixty
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Speaker 1: grade they projected to me in the corner, probably right field.
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Speaker 2: Can we stop saying he could stick in the center field? Like,
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Speaker 2: can we just everyone's saying like this, Skuy's going to
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Speaker 2: be huge, He's not gonna stick in center field. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: they all say it be Aaron Judge, But I don't
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Speaker 2: think he's Aaron No. Yeah, they call him a carving
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Speaker 2: copy of Eloy Jimenez. So not a center fielder.
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Speaker 1: Not a center fielder as it turns out, uh so,
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Speaker 1: so yeah, not to you know, get get ahead of
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Speaker 1: ourselves a little bit too much. There other signings whereas
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Speaker 1: I pull him up. A infielder from the Dominican Republic,
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Speaker 1: Steerling Brazil, Venezuelan catcher Carlos Benevildez Menavidez, sorry, the Maicon infielder,
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Speaker 1: Angel Delos Santos, Venezuelan left handed pitcher Anderson Diaz, and
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Speaker 1: an outfielder from Venezuela easy name to remember in this division,
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Speaker 1: Jose Ramirez. Speaking of Alex Rodriguez. The Rangers signed a
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Speaker 1: sixteen year old Alex Rodriguez also, so that's pretty cool.
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Speaker 1: And also Haile Ramirez, his son's.
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Speaker 2: Star Rangers Hanley. That's such an interesting career. Go check
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Speaker 2: out his Baseball Reference page and interesting numbers. Of these
9:48
Speaker 2: other guys, I think Jose Ramirez is the most interesting
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Speaker 2: to me. The report from gel Garcia was kind of glowing.
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Speaker 2: Uh so, you can hit, but he's got some speed,
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Speaker 2: talked about his tools that we think he can play
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Speaker 2: center field in Co America. Part. So it sounds like
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Speaker 2: it's tooled out guy, almost like a Parker Meadows Max
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Speaker 2: Clark type play style. Obviously, who knows, you know, how
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Speaker 2: good he ends up being, but that's a guy I'm
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Speaker 2: going to be excited to keep an eye on. Just
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Speaker 2: sounds like he's going to be a fun player with
10:16
Speaker 2: a exciting brand of baseball.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so another thing we need to work on, need
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Speaker 1: to see if we can get Oklahoma State to send
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Speaker 1: some cleats to Chris Rodriguez to keep up the tradition
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Speaker 1: of the high international signings having Oklahoma State cleats like
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Speaker 1: so well.
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Speaker 2: Of Christian Sansana. I don't know, well, maybe the Pokes
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Speaker 2: got a back off here.
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Speaker 1: Maybe all right, keep it with the international theme here
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Speaker 1: for a second. We probably are on the cusp of
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Speaker 1: a Susak like deal agreement announcement here really any day now. Actually,
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Speaker 1: I think January fifteenth was the day put out there
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Speaker 1: by like the Ken Rosenthals of the world as a
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Speaker 1: possible possible announcement. They have reports that the you know,
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Speaker 1: it's like three teams involved, and I think we all
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Speaker 1: kind of just accept reality that he's gonna go to
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Speaker 1: the Dodgers, and that's fine, good for the Dodgers.
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Speaker 2: If i'd totally rule up to Padres, I don't know
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Speaker 2: can be one of those two. Sorry Blue Jays.
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Speaker 3: Well, there you go.
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Speaker 1: We'll see Tigers from what we from what they have
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Speaker 1: said publicly like made their initial pitch and then essentially
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Speaker 1: we're not chosen in the filtering out process by rookies team.
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Speaker 1: I think I think I'm a little disappointed by that.
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Speaker 1: I kind of hope that they would have a pitch
11:36
Speaker 1: that would like play a little bit more we talked
11:38
Speaker 1: about in previous episodes.
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Speaker 3: But you know that makes sense.
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Speaker 1: There is another twist though, because we talked about the
11:46
Speaker 1: Tigers have it's kind of put out there like they
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Speaker 1: need or they desire, I should say, to kind of
11:52
Speaker 1: be a little bit more of have a little bit
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Speaker 1: more of a footprint in the Asian market if you would.
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Speaker 1: And there's there's some scuttle but that maybe there's an
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Speaker 1: opportunity like in theory that they could and you have
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Speaker 1: written about this, Gody watch you kind of inform us
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Speaker 1: about them.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll get to that in a second. First, just
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Speaker 2: like my take on Sasaki, I mean, they like this.
12:17
Speaker 2: He was never really in play for the Tigers. I
12:19
Speaker 2: think it was fun to believe that. I think I
12:21
Speaker 2: don't even know what we said at the time. For
12:23
Speaker 2: like five hours after Joel Wolf talked at winter meetings,
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Speaker 2: it was like, oh, okay, the Tigers kind of check
12:29
Speaker 2: out all these boxes that he laid out, most of
12:31
Speaker 2: which were bs. So after those like five hours were
12:35
Speaker 2: off of like, oh, they are a mid market with
12:37
Speaker 2: good pitching development, it was like, dude, he's not. He's
12:40
Speaker 2: not coming to Detroit like so, I think for the
12:45
Speaker 2: second offseason in a row, probably the most overblown narrative
12:48
Speaker 2: is that the Tigers were going to be in on
12:51
Speaker 2: you know, the premiere jet like last year it was
12:54
Speaker 2: Yamamoto and even in Managa and this year with Sasaki,
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Speaker 2: and the Tigers were not remotely on any of those guys.
13:02
Speaker 2: Like that's just the reality. It's going to be hard
13:04
Speaker 2: for them. I think as a Midwestern city, if a
13:08
Speaker 2: player can choose any thirty teams, the Tigers often are
13:11
Speaker 2: going to be eliminated just because of climate. Like maybe
13:14
Speaker 2: that's not fair. I do, like, yeah, we laid it
13:17
Speaker 2: out the pitching development, young core like those give them credence,
13:21
Speaker 2: But clearly Sasaki in his camp never took it. They
13:24
Speaker 2: didn't take it seriously enough to even arrange a meeting.
13:29
Speaker 2: So when we're talking about the Tigers getting more aggressive,
13:33
Speaker 2: more of a footprint in Japan, I think it comes
13:36
Speaker 2: down to this. There's something happening nationally that hasn't gotten
13:39
Speaker 2: a lot of attention so far. But the Oakland Athletics,
13:43
Speaker 2: not Oakland, the Athletics of wherever.
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Speaker 3: Somewhere in California, and maybe eventually.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not. So they signed a seventeen to eighteen
13:57
Speaker 2: year old player named Shatara Mori. He is a two
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Speaker 2: way player, hits left, throws right, just like Shoeyotani. I'm
14:04
Speaker 2: not saying he's gonna be Shoeyotani, but he's a pretty
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Speaker 2: talented player. And he is probably the biggest Japanese prospect
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Speaker 2: to ever skip the Nike Pon Professional Baseball League Draft
14:15
Speaker 2: and sign professionally with an MLB club. So that breaks
14:20
Speaker 2: decades of precedent. This just isn't a thing that happens,
14:23
Speaker 2: largely because of reasons deeply ingrained in Japanese culture. You're
14:27
Speaker 2: supposed to go to the MPB draft. Otani considered skipping it,
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Speaker 2: didn't Sasaki considered skipping it. Didn't. There have been some
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Speaker 2: other guys who didn't play in PB, largely because of
14:40
Speaker 2: varying circumstances they weren't necessarily wanted in MPB. There was
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Speaker 2: another guy, Rintaro Sasaki, who signed with Stanford last year,
14:51
Speaker 2: did not play in Japan, signed with Stanford, may have
14:53
Speaker 2: been the top pick in the NPV draft, he instead
14:56
Speaker 2: to chose to come to the States. So what's happening
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Speaker 2: is this pipeline is opening up there I think going
15:04
Speaker 2: to be more Japanese amateurs coming straight to the US,
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Speaker 2: maybe Otani Sasaki Yamamoto type talents who will now be
15:12
Speaker 2: available as soon as their high school careers are done.
15:15
Speaker 2: And if the Tigers are looking to increase their presence
15:18
Speaker 2: in Japan and the Pacific RIM, this is probably what happens.
15:22
Speaker 2: I think smart teams are probably already on the cutting
15:26
Speaker 2: edge of this and looking at these opportunities, building these connections,
15:31
Speaker 2: seeing these players, I think as far more likely the
15:34
Speaker 2: Tigers could open up their pipeline that way than bidding
15:40
Speaker 2: massive amounts of dollars or just hoping a player like
15:42
Speaker 2: Sasaki signs. We'll probably go through this again next year
15:46
Speaker 2: with gosh, what's the hitter there's a big Japanese hitter
15:51
Speaker 2: coming up, blanking on his name, played in the World
15:52
Speaker 2: Baseball class that he nashes. We'll probably go through this again,
15:56
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna throw this out there right now. I
15:58
Speaker 2: bet he doesn't signed with the Tigers. With the Tiger's
16:00
Speaker 2: gonna start getting some guys Japanese amateurs that could be
16:04
Speaker 2: very interesting. Write a story about the athletics and Shatara
16:08
Speaker 2: Mori on the athletic hope you guys to check it out.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's outside the box, although it's about
16:16
Speaker 1: to be inside the box. So here we are talking
16:18
Speaker 1: about it. It might become a little bit more of a
16:19
Speaker 1: mainstream idea. But I think if you are the Tigers,
16:23
Speaker 1: you do have to treat this and as a unique
16:26
Speaker 1: opportunity and try to be at the front line of it.
16:30
Speaker 1: Because again, like you said, you're not really you could
16:33
Speaker 1: say you're not actually physically metaphorically and literally getting in
16:37
Speaker 1: the room to acquire these players, right, So like this
16:42
Speaker 1: is this the same opportunity that you have in Latin America.
16:45
Speaker 1: Potentially you could get in Asia. So like I'm all
16:49
Speaker 1: for like trying something new here, and again this would
16:53
Speaker 1: play into the whole like resources available thing that that
16:57
Speaker 1: Scott Harris likes to say, like if should they try
16:59
Speaker 1: to like venture into uh into this market. So I
17:04
Speaker 1: I I respect players that are going about it a
17:08
Speaker 1: different way too, right, you know what I mean, Like
17:10
Speaker 1: you know, the stan the Stanford, you know way.
17:12
Speaker 3: Going to college.
17:13
Speaker 1: I think I think it'd be awesome if more of
17:15
Speaker 1: them did that, because, you know, selfishly, because I'd like
17:17
Speaker 1: to watch them, you know, play play in the United
17:19
Speaker 1: States and college ball and and all that stuff. And
17:22
Speaker 1: then you know, I'd like to see the Tigers be
17:24
Speaker 1: more aggressive there because again, you have to kind of
17:27
Speaker 1: play with the hands that you're dealt all right. The
17:29
Speaker 1: weather is the weather in Michigan, Okay, and then the
17:32
Speaker 1: market size is the market size. We can all debate
17:34
Speaker 1: about the market size, but the bottom line is you're
17:36
Speaker 1: not the Yankees, not the Red Sox, you're not the Dodgers,
17:38
Speaker 1: So like you have to play around that and there.
17:42
Speaker 3: And that's what Oakland's doing.
17:43
Speaker 1: By the way, Oakland, Sacramento, Las Vegas, whatever, low key
17:48
Speaker 1: kind of the most interesting offseason. We don't have to
17:50
Speaker 1: talk a lot about it, but they they certainly have
17:53
Speaker 1: made more headlines.
17:54
Speaker 3: I think then when.
17:57
Speaker 2: You have to dodge an MLBP a green venture forced
17:59
Speaker 2: to do some interesting things. Uh, the player is blinking
18:02
Speaker 2: on Munataka Murakami, that's probably the next big Japanese free
18:06
Speaker 2: agent corner infielder, left handed hitter, a lot of power.
18:09
Speaker 3: No, there you go.
18:10
Speaker 1: Wait, good job by a producer Mac Jay too to
18:15
Speaker 1: get on that. So I do Cody want to spend
18:21
Speaker 1: a couple minutes on it? Just a couple a couple
18:25
Speaker 1: minutes of promise this I had another Alex Bregman thought
18:29
Speaker 1: it's not that original, but he's still available, so therefore
18:34
Speaker 1: the thoughts are still going to exist. There's talk now
18:38
Speaker 1: that the Cubs are in it, and Rosenthal when he
18:42
Speaker 1: goes on on foul Territory or fair Territory his show
18:47
Speaker 1: here at the Network, like I always kind of feel
18:50
Speaker 1: like he like frames it as if like the Sucks
18:53
Speaker 1: are basically refusing to bid against themselves in the bragmant market.
18:58
Speaker 1: So that's my reno between the lines. And if kenn
19:01
Speaker 1: is saying that, then I'm assuming that it's damn near
19:05
Speaker 1: like perfect. So if I'm advising Alex Bregman and I
19:13
Speaker 1: got these various offers on the table, and they're all
19:17
Speaker 1: we'll call them in the same ballpark. Financially, like, I
19:20
Speaker 1: doubt there's gonna be that kind of contract that is
19:23
Speaker 1: such an outlier. I kind of feel like, and this
19:28
Speaker 1: is my bias, sure, but tell me where I'm wrong here.
19:31
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like Detroit is like a better
19:35
Speaker 1: option in multiple ways then going to Boston.
19:39
Speaker 3: I wouldn't look this up.
19:40
Speaker 1: You know, you want to guess how many innings Alex Bregman,
19:43
Speaker 1: in college, the minors or Major League Baseball has played
19:46
Speaker 1: at second base.
19:48
Speaker 2: I don't think he's played any well.
19:50
Speaker 1: He's played thirty two. The whole is hire his entire
19:55
Speaker 1: adult life. Basically, he has played thirty two innings of
19:58
Speaker 1: second base. It's not a lot like he is north
20:02
Speaker 1: of thirty, all right, So it's not a lot.
20:05
Speaker 3: Number one.
20:05
Speaker 1: So number two, you come into this market thinking you're
20:09
Speaker 1: like one of the studs, right, and then you're gonna
20:12
Speaker 1: sign somewhere that requires you to go to the other
20:14
Speaker 1: side of the diamond. It just also doesn't mesh a
20:17
Speaker 1: that much. Number three, you're gonna go to the American
20:22
Speaker 1: League East. The American League is down. We all understand that. However,
20:28
Speaker 1: the division that is not down is the American League East,
20:33
Speaker 1: because you have the New York Yankees.
20:35
Speaker 3: They just went to the Pennant.
20:36
Speaker 1: Yes they lost won Soto, but they're not you know,
20:38
Speaker 1: they're not trying to backtrack. You have the Baltimore Orioles,
20:41
Speaker 1: who we would say is what top three in terms
20:46
Speaker 1: of young talent across Major League baseball.
20:48
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely might still be number one. They need to
20:51
Speaker 2: do some pitching or spend some money, but man, there's
20:54
Speaker 2: still got some salient.
20:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
20:56
Speaker 1: And then you have the Blue Jays, who like are
20:59
Speaker 1: more name than production. However, they still kind of seem
21:04
Speaker 1: like desperate to try to be competitive. Who knows what
21:07
Speaker 1: they might pull out there, but to try to be
21:09
Speaker 1: like a you know, a tender, even though they should
21:11
Speaker 1: probably tear it down as we I think we mentioned
21:13
Speaker 1: here once or twice. You go to the American League Central,
21:16
Speaker 1: you get you get a team that was in the
21:19
Speaker 1: playoffs last year. You get a division with really no
21:22
Speaker 1: like nobody's head and shoulders above everybody else, right, and
21:25
Speaker 1: you get to reunite with AJ so that neutralizes the
21:28
Speaker 1: aux core thing, assuming they have you know, similar relationships,
21:31
Speaker 1: and you get to play your position. Now, yes he
21:34
Speaker 1: does mash You should go look at his uh numbers?
21:39
Speaker 3: Is it is a lot?
21:42
Speaker 1: However, I like, do you think Carlos Carrel would have
21:46
Speaker 1: gone to play third but sign anywhere that was gonna
21:48
Speaker 1: put him at third base any times he was a
21:51
Speaker 1: free agent? Probably not? Probably not. So like, I just
21:56
Speaker 1: feel like we're not giving enough credit to like these
22:01
Speaker 1: things that Detroit can offer it with. Again, I'm assuming financials.
22:05
Speaker 1: My dog agrees with me. I assume financials are relatively
22:09
Speaker 1: the same. And I just don't understand the appeal of
22:13
Speaker 1: going to Boston to play second base, is what I'm saying.
22:18
Speaker 1: When they're it's not like they're head and shoulders about
22:20
Speaker 1: the team in terms of if you're winning, is what
22:22
Speaker 1: you value and the financials are about the same and
22:24
Speaker 1: you're gonna get these same opt outs anyway, Like don't
22:28
Speaker 1: why would you just go play for another team that
22:33
Speaker 1: is about on the same playing as Boston isn't as
22:36
Speaker 1: simple as the Green Monster. We talk about home field
22:39
Speaker 1: advantage all the time, you bring up all the time,
22:41
Speaker 1: that's only half your games, So like we should apply
22:45
Speaker 1: the same logic here as well. So that's all I'm saying.
22:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know you already mentioned the park factor,
22:51
Speaker 2: and I kind of keep coming back to that if
22:53
Speaker 2: it were to ultimately between be between Tigers and Red Sox,
22:57
Speaker 2: which not sure it will, because if neither of these
23:00
Speaker 2: teams wants to step up and foot the bill, what
23:02
Speaker 2: that does is open the door for a team like
23:04
Speaker 2: the Cubs or someone else to swoop in on one
23:07
Speaker 2: of these shorter term deals. But let's say hypothetically, hypothetically
23:12
Speaker 2: it's between Tigers and Red Sox. It's only eighty one games.
23:15
Speaker 2: But Alex Bregman has a twelve forty career OPS at
23:19
Speaker 2: Finway Park. That's in twenty one career games in Finnway.
23:23
Speaker 2: He's hits three seventy five. Ink America, he has a
23:26
Speaker 2: seven oh two OPS, he's two twenty seven. If I'm thinking, man,
23:31
Speaker 2: do I want to go to the Hall of Fame?
23:34
Speaker 2: Do I want to perform deep into my thirties? Wouldn't
23:37
Speaker 2: mind having half my games just banging some doubles about
23:40
Speaker 2: that Green Monster as opposed to going to a tougher
23:43
Speaker 2: place to play in America the position change. I think
23:47
Speaker 2: that's a legit point. We've not really heard from Bregman
23:50
Speaker 2: specifically how he might feel about that. I think Bor
23:53
Speaker 2: said you'd be open to it, But how does you
23:56
Speaker 2: know is Bregman actually want to do that? I think
23:58
Speaker 2: that's a real question. But so as like, I don't know.
24:01
Speaker 2: The Red Socks are a prestige brand. Finway Park is
24:04
Speaker 2: a cathedral, like they have things in their favor and
24:07
Speaker 2: it's a park that suits them a lot more. I
24:10
Speaker 2: think if we were to end up being talking similar money,
24:13
Speaker 2: that really could work against the Tigers.
24:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Vendwaite thing, the prestige thing, is not something
24:19
Speaker 1: that I can counter. I'm just saying, but like, I
24:21
Speaker 1: just feel like we're there are these are things that
24:24
Speaker 1: are in the tigers advantage. I feel like aren't giving
24:26
Speaker 1: getting enough play, I guess would be my main point.
24:31
Speaker 2: All Right, maybe you're right. If the Tigers wanted Bregman,
24:35
Speaker 2: they could probably have them.
24:36
Speaker 3: They probably coming back to that one.
24:38
Speaker 1: Yep, all right, let's uh, you know, the guys have
24:40
Speaker 1: to forgive me for the dogs barking in the background
24:43
Speaker 1: doing the best I can here. I saw something on
24:47
Speaker 1: Twitter today, Cody that made me excited, even though I
24:51
Speaker 1: figured it probably wasn't all that legit, but still maybe excited. Okay,
24:57
Speaker 1: there's one of those random like Twitter accounts that says
25:00
Speaker 1: that Cabrian Hayes wants to be traded. Now, long time
25:02
Speaker 1: listeners know, I love me some Cabrian Hayes. I love
25:06
Speaker 1: Cabrian Hayes. Didn't necessarily have the greatest year last year.
25:10
Speaker 1: But if we're talking about third base upgrade options and
25:14
Speaker 1: this guy is available, which even if he's like not
25:20
Speaker 1: requested a trade, he probably should be available given the
25:23
Speaker 1: production they got out of third base last season.
25:26
Speaker 3: With him hurt.
25:27
Speaker 1: I think he played like what ninety games last year.
25:29
Speaker 1: I should have that in front of me.
25:32
Speaker 3: Ninety six.
25:34
Speaker 1: Cabrian Hayes could provide a little bit of balance in
25:39
Speaker 1: this lineup. Now there's the right handed factor. I understand
25:43
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about like lineup balance and that like,
25:48
Speaker 1: this guy is an elite defender. This guy is an
25:51
Speaker 1: elite defender in four seasons. I took out the twenty
25:54
Speaker 1: twenty season when he was a rookie and played like
25:58
Speaker 1: twenty something games, So I took that out for this
26:00
Speaker 1: average defensive war. Defensive war, he averages two point.
26:05
Speaker 3: Eight per year.
26:06
Speaker 1: If you take out like this microcosm of a season
26:09
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, two point eight per year for perspective.
26:13
Speaker 1: Nolan Aeronata, who Tigers have been connected to, I guess
26:20
Speaker 1: you could say is a longer career, but one point
26:24
Speaker 1: six war per year defensive war, defensive war, just defensive war.
26:28
Speaker 1: So we're on the same page here. Cabrian Hayes as
26:31
Speaker 1: a contract that goes through twenty thirty two with a
26:35
Speaker 1: club option, so we'll just throw that out for the
26:38
Speaker 1: sake of this. He's only making seven million dollars the
26:41
Speaker 1: next three years and then eight million dollars two years
26:43
Speaker 1: after that. That runs through twenty twenty nine and his
26:47
Speaker 1: age thirty two season.
26:48
Speaker 3: Again, there's a club option.
26:49
Speaker 1: There for his age thirty three season for twelve million,
26:53
Speaker 1: So that's five years thirty seven million, taking out the
26:56
Speaker 1: club option year. Whereas people are talking about getting Nolan
26:59
Speaker 1: for read for fifty two, keep in mind Labor Torres
27:03
Speaker 1: signed for one for fifteen. Now, again it's a one
27:06
Speaker 1: year deal. Money doesn't matter, but you see the trend
27:09
Speaker 1: that we have in free agency with the deals that
27:12
Speaker 1: these guys are getting. If you can get close to
27:14
Speaker 1: the league average offensive production out of Hayes, which I
27:17
Speaker 1: think is realistic, now not a certainty, but I think
27:21
Speaker 1: realistic and you continue to get elite defensive.
27:25
Speaker 3: That is a bargain in my opinion.
27:28
Speaker 1: And he is a career two ninety five hitter against
27:32
Speaker 1: left handed pitching. Torres is a career two to seventy
27:35
Speaker 1: one hitter against left handed pitching for perspective, and the
27:38
Speaker 1: Tigers hit two thirty last year against left handed pitching.
27:42
Speaker 1: So all that to say that you could get a
27:46
Speaker 1: guy with an elite skill set. It that you, you know,
27:50
Speaker 1: if you believe in the hitters lab that they're trying
27:53
Speaker 1: to sell us on, and for certain some of these
27:55
Speaker 1: guys that you could get closer to league average if
27:58
Speaker 1: you believe in your sports medicine, make sure his back's okay,
28:01
Speaker 1: Like these are stuff that we obviously just don't have
28:03
Speaker 1: access to. But you get him healthy, and you get
28:06
Speaker 1: him closely average offensively, and you're paying him nothing. Now
28:10
Speaker 1: it is a lot a lot of years, but you're
28:11
Speaker 1: paying him nothing. And they already have a guy that
28:16
Speaker 1: that's younger and cheaper that they if they knew that
28:18
Speaker 1: this kid was gonna deal, all right, they probably wouldn't
28:20
Speaker 1: give in.
28:20
Speaker 3: Hayes' exception, all right.
28:22
Speaker 1: So and it's also the Pirates, so like it's I
28:25
Speaker 1: just feel like there's an opportunity here. So that's that's
28:28
Speaker 1: my point. There's an opportunity for Cabrian Hayes. I think
28:31
Speaker 1: it should be at least thrown into the mix of
28:34
Speaker 1: possibilities if you're looking to upgrade your infield in twenty
28:40
Speaker 1: twenty five and in this case beyond. Yeah.
28:43
Speaker 2: I really wanted to hate on this idea because this report,
28:47
Speaker 2: and I say that with heavy quotation marks, came from
28:50
Speaker 2: an account called mb scoops that literally has ice cream
28:54
Speaker 2: in its profile picture, said Randell Kertschik, and the Pirates
28:57
Speaker 2: were close to a deal seven days ago, said Verlander,
29:01
Speaker 2: and the Braves had something going on. So I don't
29:03
Speaker 2: think it's remotely legit. At least, you know, we don't
29:06
Speaker 2: have reason to believe that Twitter is out of control.
29:08
Speaker 1: Man.
29:08
Speaker 2: We got to be more literate about these things. But
29:12
Speaker 2: it's like he hits left as well. Even last year
29:16
Speaker 2: he hit left. He's well, twenty twenty two and twenty
29:19
Speaker 2: twenty three, he was a four to win player in
29:21
Speaker 2: Baseball Reference each of those seasons. I wanted until left.
29:27
Speaker 2: Three minutes ago. I was going to say, dude, Tigers
29:29
Speaker 2: don't need Cabrian Hayes like Matt Vierling's going to better
29:32
Speaker 2: than Cabrian Hayes. I don't know that. I see Matt
29:35
Speaker 2: Vierling having a four win season. You know, that's a
29:38
Speaker 2: pretty high threshold to clear. You know, how much does
29:41
Speaker 2: the defense matter? I think the Tigers need to impact
29:44
Speaker 2: bat more than they need defense. But right now there
29:47
Speaker 2: stands a chance that their infield defense is going to
29:50
Speaker 2: be pretty abysmal. So having a gold glove third basement
29:53
Speaker 2: man that could be pretty nice. I think they should
29:57
Speaker 2: sign Alex Bregman, but if they don't get Bregmant, I
30:00
Speaker 2: think I might like hay more than Ironano. Could be
30:03
Speaker 2: a little bit of an upside play, could solidify your defense.
30:07
Speaker 2: You get a right handed bat, and he doesn't have
30:09
Speaker 2: to carry the load of the franchise like he almost
30:13
Speaker 2: had to do in Pittsburgh. He'd be there to play defense,
30:16
Speaker 2: hopefully get lead average offensive production. Probably could get him
30:19
Speaker 2: for cheap. I don't see this happening. I'm not sure
30:23
Speaker 2: it's in the realm of reality, but I really don't
30:27
Speaker 2: hate the idea.
30:28
Speaker 1: I think you have to make a phone call about it,
30:30
Speaker 1: in my opinion, because again, they have a guy that
30:33
Speaker 1: they that you know, younger, cheaper, and they got decent
30:35
Speaker 1: production out of and if you I was doing a
30:38
Speaker 1: deep dive. I was on their fan grabs like depth chart.
30:41
Speaker 1: I was, I was going all out. I was like,
30:43
Speaker 1: I felt like Charlie Day and always sunny in the
30:45
Speaker 1: mail room. I was just like, you know, a million
30:47
Speaker 1: tabs open cross referencing this. Yeah. So, like you know,
30:50
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh's a hard team to figure out. Sometimes I think
30:52
Speaker 1: we can all we can all. We can all agree
30:55
Speaker 1: on that. So so if I want to throw this
30:58
Speaker 1: out there, I have to give a hypothetical. So how
31:00
Speaker 1: would you feel about Brent herder and Ryan Kreidler Forbrian Hayes.
31:06
Speaker 2: I'm not giving anybody Brent Herder Man, he's pretty.
31:08
Speaker 3: Good, all right.
31:10
Speaker 1: Fato and Peyton Graham deal because they have a atrocious bullpen.
31:17
Speaker 1: So I was looking at bullpen arms. Bata Woul would
31:21
Speaker 1: be their second best on war last season. So so,
31:25
Speaker 1: and then Peyton Graham's you know, still has a pedigree
31:28
Speaker 1: of a second round pick. The middle of the infield
31:31
Speaker 1: is getting kind of crowded, kind of quick for Detroit,
31:34
Speaker 1: so like, you know, maybe Peyton, you know, this might
31:37
Speaker 1: be one of the times where the prestige might still
31:39
Speaker 1: exist Peyton Graham, So.
31:42
Speaker 2: For about the millions time this offseason, we would have
31:45
Speaker 2: to say, Like, it also largely depends how you feel
31:47
Speaker 2: about Jase Young. So I think you could quote unquote
31:50
Speaker 2: block Jase Young for Alex Bregman. Would you want to
31:53
Speaker 2: block him? I just don't think it's a block, But
31:56
Speaker 2: would you want to limit his at bats for Cabrian Hayes.
32:00
Speaker 2: That's a huge question and one we still don't quite
32:04
Speaker 2: have a full indication from the Tigers, like how much
32:07
Speaker 2: they actually value Jace Young, But that would be something
32:10
Speaker 2: to consider.
32:10
Speaker 1: Well, I'm looking at Jace Young as a like as
32:14
Speaker 1: of now, I'm looking at him more as a long
32:16
Speaker 1: term second basement than third basement, like in this thought exercise,
32:19
Speaker 1: in this thought exercise, because we still again we still
32:22
Speaker 1: have no indication of his real role. And then again
32:26
Speaker 1: like how the organization values him. I would be comfortable
32:30
Speaker 1: getting Hayes and then kind of figuring out something long
32:34
Speaker 1: term with Young post Torres.
32:37
Speaker 2: They could still almost platoon at third Vierling would still
32:39
Speaker 2: play plenty, but more as a fourth outfielder more probably
32:43
Speaker 2: the role he's best suited.
32:44
Speaker 1: For, you know, like it because long term at second
32:48
Speaker 1: base now is a huge question.
32:50
Speaker 3: You know, you like Lee, right, but again it's.
32:54
Speaker 2: Lee young McGonagall could all be options there, so you
32:57
Speaker 2: have you have some options.
32:58
Speaker 1: You have some options, but you also but you know
33:00
Speaker 1: mcgonagall's obviously behind Lee as of now, so it's like
33:04
Speaker 1: you kind of you could kind of this will make
33:06
Speaker 1: this will raise your floor a little bit, especially defensively,
33:10
Speaker 1: and then like becomes a huge bargain if he can
33:13
Speaker 1: get close to the league average offensive production. He's a
33:16
Speaker 1: right hander. Uh, you know, seems like a kid has
33:19
Speaker 1: got a good head on his shoulders. You know that
33:20
Speaker 1: has some bad uh some bad injury luck. There By
33:24
Speaker 1: the way, if you want a more detailed on this,
33:26
Speaker 1: I recommend going to Jerry macinnam on Twitter. Uh he
33:30
Speaker 1: broke this down. He's with me on team Cabrian, so
33:33
Speaker 1: uh so I don't want to take credit for all
33:35
Speaker 1: the number crunching that he did, so go find him
33:38
Speaker 1: on Twitter because he broke it down. Real well, there's
33:40
Speaker 1: reason for optimism. I think it would be a decent gamble.
33:43
Speaker 1: So that's just that's just my uh my two cents.
33:46
Speaker 1: I was very a very excited, exhausted exhausting rabbit hole
33:51
Speaker 1: that I did this afternoon for Cabrian Hayes.
33:54
Speaker 3: But I think it could work. They could work, just
33:56
Speaker 3: as Big B in Bayoto, you know, like maybe maybe, Well.
34:00
Speaker 2: I just hope there's the last time we reference MLB
34:03
Speaker 2: scoops on this podcast.
34:05
Speaker 1: Very fair, Very fair? Anything else, Cody before we get
34:08
Speaker 1: out of here?
34:08
Speaker 2: No, that's good. We will catch you guys here in
34:11
Speaker 2: a few days as we continue to follow what's next
34:14
Speaker 2: to this offseason.
34:16
Speaker 1: I want to remind everybody as of recording this, we
34:18
Speaker 1: are within ten subscribers of the one thousand subscriber mark
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Speaker 1: on YouTube. So please, if you haven't already, if you're listening,
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Speaker 1: even if you don't do the YouTube thing all that often,
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Speaker 1: grow this podcast into and what you know is going
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Speaker 1: to be at very least an exciting and interesting Tiger season.
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Speaker 1: So we got big plans, maybe some remotes, but we
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Speaker 1: got to kind of grow in order to be able
34:47
Speaker 1: to accomplish those things. So if you haven't already, please
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Speaker 1: subscribe on YouTube. I will say it again, please subscribe
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Speaker 1: on YouTube, and thank you to everybody who listens to us, Apple, Spotify,
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Speaker 1: wherever we get your podcasts, and follows us on x
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Speaker 1: foaming on Twitter at Cody staved Hagen. I'm kra Sports
35:00
Speaker 1: dec Lee pod page at Tiger Territory Underscore for Cobe
35:04
Speaker 1: David Hagen. I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have a great day.