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Spirited Away with Ayumi Shinozaki · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, listeners, Just a quick note about this episode. Some
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: of the audio is slightly distorted here and there. You'll
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: hear some crackling. It's not terribly excessive, but it is
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: there enough that you notice, so we just want to
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: apologize for that. Hopefully it's not too disruptive to your
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: listening experience, and we hope you enjoy the episode. On
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef invest
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: start changing it with the Beck del Cast, Jamie Caitlin,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: it's getting dark. Oh no, we have to get you
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: out of here. We have to get you out of
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: this podcast because if you stay, get me out of
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: your you're gonna turn into a pig and maybe also
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: a spirit. So ship is it a metaphor for something? Maybe?
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Oh no, too late, now you have to get a job.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Is it's probably capitalism? It's always capitalism, the environment or
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: coming of age? Oh no, I'm a pig, like like
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: um me eating uh smart ones? As we record, I'm like,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: oh no, slow down, you're smart ones slower. I think
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: that was an incredible. That was a very I thought
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: you were going to make me hold my breath is
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: what I thought was going to happen. Oh, but also
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: that would have be impossible to pass the bucktele test
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: because I would be unable to speak. That's true. So
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: my version was amazing. Ten out of ten. No notes, no, no,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: thank you. Welcome to the bucktele Cast. By the way, indeed,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: and this is our podcast where we take a look
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: at your favorite movies in the whole wide world using
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. And today kick off, I guess
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: a unit that kind of makes it sound like this
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: podcast to school. I don't love that, but a a
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: unit of films that has been requested for years and
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: years and years, and the time is now they're all finally,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: at least in the US, they are all streaming in
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: a pretty accessible way, which is what we were waiting
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: for for a long time, and then we just kind
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: of waited another year for fun. Uh. But you needed
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: to cover Shrek to priorities. Look, I mean, with with
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: all due respect, there were some animated stories that needed
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: to be looked at and and by that I mean
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: in Shrek two and only Shrek two. Um. But yes,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: we were starting our Miyazaki month and we're starting with
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: his Oscar winning film It's True, which I didn't really Well,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: we'll get into there's so much it's spirited away day.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: It is on the Besel Cast. Yes it is. Oh wait,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: we didn't say what the Bechdel Test was. I guess
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: we should say that. We usually say that what is it?
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. There are many versions
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: of it. Ours is this Two people of a marginalized
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: gender with names have to speak to each other, and
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: their conversation has to be about something other than a man,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: and ideally it's a narratively meaningful conversation. Yes, which in
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Miyazaki canon is not usually not a problem. Too hard
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: at all. So very excited for today's episode. I can't
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: wait to Okay, let's bring in our guests and then
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I have a really pressing question. An amazing guest today,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: We absolutely do. She's a writer, translator, host and producer
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: of Sparkle Side Chats podcast. It's Ayumi Shinozaki, Hello, welcome.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I was holding my breath waiting to be introduced. Wow,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: well you could finally breathe. Yes, it's wild because we
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: couldn't see you from the beginning of the recording, and
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: then we heard it a sharp exhale, and then you appeared.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: It's very excited to be here. Thank you for being here.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: We're so excited to kick things off with a spirited
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: away episode with you. This is definitely an extremely American statement. However,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: immediately the second Lynn began speaking. I don't know if
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I remembered this from the first time I had seen
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: this movie, but the moment Lynn began speaking, I was like, Oh,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Megara Hercules, Disney's Hercules. It's all I mean I was.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I was a big Hercules head. I don't know that
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: that would fare very well on this show at all,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: but I really loved it when I was tiny and
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: um her voice unmistakable, Yes, definitely, yes, I do think that. Um.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: One thing that's really interest thing about this movie in
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: terms of, you know, why it's so well done, or
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: like why it's so popular in the s S. Because
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: it was the first one that was localized by Disney
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: in particular because before that there were different other studios
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: doing it, like sometimes it wasn't very successful. Um toto
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: did I think the original total did? Okay? I think
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I remember watching that one in English, but this was
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: the first Disney one. I think that you can definitely
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: hear it in the localization makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I was the whole adaptation process I watched. I meane
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: it was a heavily, heavily disneyfied look at the adaptation process.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: But it was interesting. I've never sort of seen that
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: process done before so closely with the with the filmmaker too.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: So let's let's get into it, and uh, what's your
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: history and relationship with Spirited Away? Um? Yeah, So I
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: guess my history with this movie is really connected to
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: my history with Ghibili in general, which, um, you know,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: for anyone who has no idea who I am. Um,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I am Japanese and white. Um. And my my father,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: who is a white American, he actually was like really
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: really into movies, and so he got into Ghibli movies
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: in the eighties, like through his best friend who was
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: a Japanese American and they they used to basically do
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: fan dubbing of the movies for their friends because it
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: was just so inaccessible. Yeah, so, um, hold on, I
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: actually did I I am both my parents to get
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: at their their history of Gibilie before they got married.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: But um, yeah, so what he told me was, like,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: you know, they really went line by line and translated.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: They did Nashka, they did um The Castle of Kaiostro,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: which is a loop on the third movie but was
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: also directed by Miyazaki, then Lapida, and then um also Across,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: which is not Ghibli but is a very big, like
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: sci fi Japanese movie. But um, definitely, Like I was
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: always closer to my father in the first place, but like, um,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to movies, and especially Jibli movies,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I was always like watching them with this idea of like,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: you know, these are some of the best, you know
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: movies out there, and like they were kind of the
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: way to kind of understand that like animation was a
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: genre and you know, like just because something is animated
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's like less of a movie than a
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: live action one. Um. But yes, since you know, in
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the you know, lady eighties and early nineties, a lot
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: of more kid friendly Jubilee movies had come out, So
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: those were the ones I definitely watched more, you know,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Total and Kiki slivery service. But it wasn't until like
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: thinking about my relationship to this movie that I realized
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: how perfect this movie was for me. Because this movie
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: came out in um well, originally came out in two
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: thousan one in Japan, but I believe it came out
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: in two two in the US in its localized version,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: and that's where I grew up. And in two thousand one, I,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: um I was ten years old, so at the same
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: age as Hito was, and then um I had moved
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: to uh well, I moved within New York City, but
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I had a pretty major move, and um yeah, it
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: was just like this, uh this really interesting movie for me.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: And then the other thing is that this movie is
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: very very based in like traditional Japanese folklore, which I
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: never really had a relationship grow with growing up because
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: my mother is in like this neo Buddhist group. For me,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I call it a cult. They don't call it a cult,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: but whatever, that's neither he nor there. But the point
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: is there very much they reject those like old ways
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: and so on. So I really didn't have a relationship
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: with those. So this was like me learning a lot about,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: you know, my own background in a way. So I
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: was so obsessed with it. Um I was obsessed with
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: how it looked. I was obsessed with the idea of
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: like going to another world and getting a dragon boyfriend
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and all that so relatable. Very Jamie, what about your history? Um?
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I had seen this movie once before. I didn't grow up.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I wish I had grown up in a household that
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: was more. Um I guess active about getting me Yazaki
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: movies because I only saw I think two growing up.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I saw Kiki Delivery Service and spirited away both at
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: my friend's house. Shout out, Samantha, Honeywell, um at least
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: my recollection of it. Growing up, it was like there
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: would be one kid that would have the Miyazaki movies.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't like they should have been in every
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: household the way that there were five, you know whatever.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: My my parents were just like very very much and
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: this isn't this is the most parents. You know, it's
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: a hard life. But they would just be like, Okay,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: we're gonna go see the Disney one. We're gonna see
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Dana Carvey, Master of Disguise because for some reason I
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: really wanted to see that. Other than that we would
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: just go see the Disney movie. And but I wish
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: that I had seen everything that was available younger. But
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I remember being so fixated on Kiki, like Kiki's Delivery
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Service was it. I loved it so much. I really
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: liked Spirited Away. And I also vaguely remember thinking like,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the child's like equivalent of this,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: but I'm like this might be a little over my
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: head when I was and I was a kid, because
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: it's so beautiful and it's this amazing adventure. And I
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: remember being scared of no Face and then also being
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: amazed when she was nice to no Face because that
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: didn't happen in movies the villain falls off a cliff
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: at the end of a movie, but that like this,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: this movie is like so I don't know, I mean
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I had, I hadn't ever watched it um as an adult,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: and so preparing for this episode was so wild. There's
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: just there's so much, it's such it I it's no
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: longer over my head, although there's there's so much to
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: talk about because it's because it's about capitalism and we
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: ever heard of as adult have heard of her. Um.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: But I I really enjoyed prepping for this episode and
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: just learning more about Miyazaki in general. I didn't know
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: much about Um. I only knew kind of the broad
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: strokes of his background, and so it was really cool
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: learning about his background and his politics and and I'm
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: very excited to talk about this, Caitlin, what's your history
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: was Spirited Away? I did not have one. I had
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: not seen it until prepping for this episode. I've watched
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: it three times now because there's a lot to digest.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: It's a heady kids film. It really is if you're
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: operating at a Shrek level, which I was and still am. Yeah,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: we kind of come in at the Shreky end point,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and sometimes you gotta kind of level up, right. So
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I grew up with Totro. That was my absolute ship.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: But that was the only Miyazaki movie I saw until
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I think a couple of years ago when I saw kikiS,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And then it was only within the past week that
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I watched Spirited Away. And now I really want to
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: like make it a point to get through the entire
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: uba of Miyazaki. But Um, I'm still working my way
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: through it. I was not expecting Spirited Away to be
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: so wild because scary, it's scary. There's a lot of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: like frightening imagery. There's a lot of just like wild
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: stuff that happens. I mean, it's a children's movie set
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: in like a horny bath house for spirits. Like it's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: just wild. So I was kind of expecting something more
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: along the line of I mean, obviously, like there are
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: elements of you know, fantasy, and in both Toto and
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: kikiS delivery service, so I was expecting it to be
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: like that but still kind of tame like those movies are,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and then Spirited Away is just like, oh um, so
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it was. It was a wild ride for me. But yeah,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited to discuss and this is one of
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: those episodes where like my notes make no sense and
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I it's mostly just like non binary icons. The Footballs
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: is this movie about capitalism and environmentalism question mark Like
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: it's just like, well, yeah, gold coins and rivers um.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: But it's so I mean, it's like, that's so incredible
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: for for I mean, for any movie to like address
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: either of those topics well or thoughtfully, much less a
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: movie that is like very accessible and like understanding of
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: kids too. It's just this movie blew my mind. I
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: really really love it. Yes, So with that in mind,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: should I do the recap? Yes? Yes, Okay. I do
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: feel like I left out some details of the story
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: in the interest of brevity, because this movie it was
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: difficult to concisely recap, because again, there are so many
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: things that happened. There's a lot of details. But I
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: did my best. Okay. So we meet to Hero, a
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: ten year old girl who is in the car with
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: her mom and dad and they are all headed to
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the new house they're moving into. On the way, they
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: come upon this odd building with a long, dark tunnel
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: and they decide to walk through it, and on the
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: other side they find this abandoned the park, and despite
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to Hero's protests, they all walk through the tunnel go
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: into the park, and her parents find this food vendor
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and start chowing down on a ton of food right
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: away they I thought it was like I had to
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: there's I don't know. I mean, obviously was not picking
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: up on this as a child, but like right away
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the script is referencing like contemporary Japanese history that I
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: had to keep pausing and being like wait, what where
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I think it's to hero's father when they first get
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: to the um abandoned theme park. He like mentions stock
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: crash like an economic crash, and like contextualizes why the
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: park was abandoned. And it's done so quickly and so easily,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Like I just it's so well done. It's so cool. Yeah,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: even like the very very beginning, like the opening shot
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: of the movie, like thinking about it, I mean they
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: have her read over what the card is, but like
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: you open with the shot of the bouquet of flowers
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: and this card from Tokito's friends, you know, saying like
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I'll miss you and all of that, and it's just
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: like the way that it just doesn't hesitate to just
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: get you right into the story. So it just it's
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: really great. There's so much that happens, and it's very
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: it doesn't stop to have to like explain everything in
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: you know, amazing detail or whatever. And as and as
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: a group that just did the Door of the Explorer movie.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Not all movies are like that. A lot of movies
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: it's part of the form to stop and tell you
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: what you're watching, right, Okay, So her parents are eating
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: all of this food, and to Hero wanders off and
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: she sees this bath house and she's like, wow, I
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: wonder if I'm going to end up in there for
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: the next several weeks question Mark Unclaire. Then she bumps
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: into another kid who says, you shouldn't be here. You
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: need to leave before it gets dark, and she's like,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: what was that all about? But she runs back to
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: her parents, and while she's doing that, the park seems
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: to becoming alive and is occupied by spirits. So then
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: she finds her parents, who have turned into pigs. So scary, Yeah,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: how like I that's one moment that and no face.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I remember the two moments that I was like, like,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the idea of leaving your parents you come back in
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: their pigs? Yep, still scary. So she starts freaking out
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: and she tries to leave, but the way they came
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: in is now under water. Then she watches a bunch
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: of spirits disembark a fairy and head into the bath house.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: And then that kid, Haku, finds her again and he
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: wants to help to Hero find her parents and leave.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: So Haku tries to sneak to Hero into the bath house,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: but she is discovered by all of the creatures and
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: and spirits as being a human because she has to
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: just it's so good the whole Like I really like
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: whenever a writer finds something that, like, you just know,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: kids were super receptive to seeing it in theaters, like
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: being asked to hold your breath and like that whole thing,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Like it just I don't know. I was doing it
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: as I was watching it, and I'm old, but like
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: as a kid, you're like, oh, that's such a smart
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: thing to do as a writer, because there's no kid
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: watching that movie who's not going to try to do
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: the same thing and also probably not make it. It's
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: so good. So she's discovered as being a human. So
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: they have to run away, and Hawku tells her that
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: if she wants to help her parents, she has to
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: go to the boiler room and ask Kamagi for a job,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and if she doesn't get a job, you Boba, the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: witch who runs the bath house, will turn to hero
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: into an animal. So we're like, Okay, the steaks are
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: high and it's like boiler roum, what is this Titanic? Okay,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: that was the Titanic reference I was able to find. Yeah,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: this movie does have a small connection to Titanic. I
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: suppose technically speaking, yes, I wonder if we have the
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: same fact, would you like to share yours? Yeah, it's um.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: So this movie was the top grossing movie in Japan
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: until uh yeah, in late was usurped by the neat
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Demon Slayer movie, which is whatever, but not for me.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: But it's fine. Um but yeah, so it went for
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: not almost yeah, nineteen years it was the top movie
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: in Japan, and before that that was Titanic. Yeah, I
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: have the same fact. Yes, yes, Titanic had a brief rain,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: but it had to end. Okay. So Camagi, the boiler
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: room man turns out to be a guy with six
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: arms and all these little balls of soot work for him,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: and Camachi does not want to help to Hero at first,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: but then he warms up to her and tells her
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: that she'll have to make a deal with you Baba
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: if she wants to work at the bath house. So
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: then this woman named Lynn takes to Hero to see
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you Baba, and along the way we get a lot
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: of visuals of the bath house. We see some spirits
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: enjoying themselves, et cetera. Lynn appears to be kind of
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: like the head of the cleaning women, and she's she's
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: like the head of cleaning. Yeah, yeah, yes. So then
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Hiro finally meets you Baba, who has a baby, a
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: large baby, but does any baby A big old baby,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: A huge baby in the English dub voiced by Tommy
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Pickles expert bay b Who is that Tara Strong? Tara Strong? Yeah, okay,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: she's like an iconic. I mean she's been she's she's
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Bubbles from Powerpuff Girls. I can go on about. She's
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: like an animation legends. Great. I think she's like probably
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I would say maybe the top most like famous female
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: voice actress in the US if I had to pick someone,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: got it. I don't know my voice actors. I guess okay,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: like yeah, it's like, yeah, I was just I was
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: delighted to find out that she was big baby. She's
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: big baby. You Babba also has a few little minions,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: including a trio of green heads that bounce around. She
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: also has a crow that looks like her, or like
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: a bird of some kind that looks a lot like her.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: So you Babba makes to Hero sign an employment contract,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: and in so doing takes away to Hero's name and
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: says that her name is now sen for the sake
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: of this recap, though, I'm going to keep calling her
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: to Hero. It's what she'd want, It's exactly so. Then
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Haku returns to set to Hero up with a job,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: but he's acting cold and distant now for some reason,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: she gets assigned to be Lynn's assistant, and Hero continues
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: to have a difficult time adjusting and processing all this
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: wild stuff that's going on due to being thrust into
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: child labor. Because because you're trying to save your parents
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: who are now pigs, you know, they're like, the only
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: way to save your parents is child labor. I was like, jeezy,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: but this is all going somewhere, so don't worry. So
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: then Haku, who is nice and warm again, takes chikiro
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: to see her parents at the pig Pen, and Haku
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: tells her that he can't remember his real name, and
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: you Baba controls I think, like all of the staff
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: of the bathhouse by stealing their names. Then she sees
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Ku flying through the air because he can turn into
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: a dragon. He's so crushable that Haku, yes, like and
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: I will get plat but like, I appreciate how Yazaki
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: generally doesn't like push romantic narratives, particularly on children, which
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: a stunning number of children's movies cannot say for some reason.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: But if if your tend watching that movie, you can
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: see what you want to see. You can see a
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: dragon boyfriend in the distance. You can see a dragon
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: friend in the distance. You know, sure, I have the beholder. Yeah, personally,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I saw a dragon boyfriend. I saw a dragon friend.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: And it could just be because I'm watching this for
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the first time as a thirty five year old and
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: not thinking about child romances. But I think that that's
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: actually really healthy. If you yeah, I would be concerned
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: if I would maybe be worried if he saw a
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: dragon boyfriend. Okay. Also, Chahiro occasionally passes this spirit who
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: we will come to know as No Face. Um, but
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: we don't fully meet No Face yet. So Chahiro starts
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: working in the bath house and after a while she
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: lets No Face in, who has just again kind of
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: been lurking around outside. Chahiro and Lynn have to clean
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: this really big tub, and No Face helps her get
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: this token she needs for the tub. He seems to like,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: really take a liking to Jahiro. I wrote down embarrassingly,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: I wrote down, No Face is like meat Loaf and
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Fight Club. He's just waiting outside, and he's like, some
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: days someone's gonna my day is gonna come and they're
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: gonna let me in. I the similarities end, but I
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, he's like, I don't know why. Now,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: anytime someone's waiting outside, I'm like, oh, like meat Loaf
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and fight Club. Um, but that's how associate waiting outside
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: for a long period of time. Well. Also famously, meat
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Loaf and Fight Club communicates by going oh yeah, much
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: like no Face. So actually, the similarities don't end there.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: So meanwhile, a stink spirit shows up at the bath
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: house and needs a bath in the big tub that
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Jihiro and Lynne just cleaned, and everyone is grossed out
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: by the stink spirit, which turns out to not even
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: be a stink spirit. It's a river spirit that just
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: had a bunch of trash lodged in it, which to
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Hero figures out and helps get all of the trash out.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: After that, the reverse spirit leaves behind a small round
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: ball I'm not quite sure exactly what it is, it's
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: just a little gift plot pellet right, and also leaves
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: behind a bunch of gold, which very much pleases you Baba,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: and you Baba compliments to Hero for doing a good
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: job and making her a bunch of money. Now, speaking
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: of gold, we learn that No Face, who is still
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: just sort of lurking around, seems to be able to
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: just conjure gold in his hands, which he uses. And
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Fight Club could not do that. I think his story
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: would have ended very differently. That would be a very
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: different movie. Yeah, we love a conjugal Okay. So No
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Face uses his gold making abilities to lure in a
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: frog and then he eats the frog. Then we cut
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to the next day and No Face is just like
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: going wild. He's eating a ton of food, he's giving
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: away a bunch of gold. Things are going off the rails. Meanwhile,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a bunch of what appears to be paper birds are
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: chasing Haku in dragon form and he gets badly injured
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: and is losing a lot of blood. So Hiro is
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: kind of rushing around trying to help him, trying to
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: save him. Meanwhile, No Face is eating people like he's
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: just things when a little too far in Capitalism Cafeteria. Yeah,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: so Tahiro is still kind of rushing around trying to
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: clean up some messes. She bumps into you Boba's baby baby.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: She also bumps into you Baba's twin sister, Zeneba, who
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: turns the baby into a mouse and turns the bird
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: into a much smaller bird. And Zeneba is there because
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: she wants the golden seal that Haku had stolen from her,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: which Hawko later vomits up, so Chihiro decides to return
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: it to Zeneba so that Haku will be free of
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: its curse and he will get better. Hihiro is an angel.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: She's doing a lot of emotional labor. She's really yeah,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: she's really doing it all. Yeah, I love her. I
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: mean there's always the like, you know, women are conditioned
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: to apologize too much, and she's taken like that's being
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: taken a step further here because she's apologizing for behalf
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: of a dragon boyfriend. Right, Yes, yes, that's a very
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Japanese thing though, like it's I think like in general
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: it's not it's not necessarily as gender. I mean, it
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: definitely is in this particular case. But yeah, like you know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: in Japan, it's like if someone bumps into you, you
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: apologize for being in the way. It's the kind of thing.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I do think that I don't think it's
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: as like I didn't read it as that way as much.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's good to know. Yeah, yeah for for me,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: what saw I mean, I I appreciate that context too,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: because I just didn't know I've I was like, well,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: it's she's U. It felt more like a friendship sacrifice, right,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: and like going to apologize to I don't I mean,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: when a woman apologizes to another woman. I'm like, well,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: it could be worse. Sure, Okay, So she's about to
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: set off to go to Zenibus to apologize, but first
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Chihiro has to play Kate No Face, who is now
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: way bigger, way more monstrous. He's eaten so much food,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: he's eaten several other spirits. Tahiro then feeds him the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: gift from the river spirit, which makes No Face barf
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: up everything he's eaten, including the people and that frog
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: he barts. He barfs up the capitalism metaphor that he
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: was eating, and then Shahiro learns No Face out of
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the bath house, and he returns to his former state
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and accompanies Tahiro, the Mouse and the Little Blackbird on
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: their journey to Zaniba's place, they get on a train.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: We get that I think one of the most iconic
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: shots of the movie where they're sitting next to each other. Meanwhile,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: back at the bath house, Hakku wakes up feeling all better,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: and Camaji tells him that love broke the spell. So
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: again we're like, is this like dragon boyfriend slash girlfriend love?
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Is this platonic love? It's open to interpretation, but love
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: broke the spell. So Hako goes to you Baba and
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: points out that her baby is gone, and she's like, oh, yeah,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: I guess you're right, and he's like, well, i'll go
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: and retrieve your baby if you tear up Jahiro's contract
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and return her and her parents to the human world. Meanwhile,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Chihiro arrives at Zeneba's, who tells Shahiro that she'll have
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: to help her parents and Hako on her own, but
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: remembering her past might help with this, especially since Shahiro
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: thinks she's met Haku before. Then Zaniba gives her a
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: little gift. It's a it's a hair tie, sparkly hair
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: tie that I forgot about that detail, and it's a
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: nice touch. It's so sweet. Then Haku shows up as
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: a dragon, and he flies Chahiro back to the bath house,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: and on the way she remembers meeting Haku before because
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: he saved her when she was drowning as a younger kid.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Because Haku is actually the Khaku River, which no longer
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: exists because it's been filled in by apartments. So you
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: find out your dragon boyfriend is also your river boyfriend,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: and you're just like you're ten years old. And then
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: it also it also does what is what is this trope?
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of another like, Okay, Tuck over Lasting, Twilight,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Spirited Away, an eternal being is like my love interest
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: is a teenager or younger, and it's just something it's
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: not It's not egregious in this movie because it isn't explicit.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: And again it's like you can very much opt in
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: or opt out depending on I guess how old you
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: were when you first saw the movie question mark. But
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: but I just I mean, that is always an interesting
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: trope to see crop up, because I feel like it's
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: rarely I mean, these are usually hetero matchups to begin with,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: but but it's rarely the the girl in the equation
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: that gets to be an eternal being. It's usually an
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: old man who's seventeen, but he's actually five hondo and
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: it's like the Peter Pan thing. Yeah. Yeah, Well, so
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: she's got a river slash dragon boyfriend and awesome chaherin
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Hucku returned to the bath house where you Baba has
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: one final test for chi Hero, which she passes, so
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: to Hero is free. She gets her name back. She
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: reunites with her parents and they walk back to their car,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and it seems like this all could have been a dream,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: but there are little hints that the whole thing really happened,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: including we see her sparkly headband. There's like dust and
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: debris on the car, because if it's been there for
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: a long time, the implication being at all actually happened.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: The hairband proves it happened. That's her how I Beat
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Shack moment. We've talked about this moment on the show before.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: I forget. Yeah, yeah, what episode was that? That's very funny.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I know that it's the convention
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: where was it a dream or not? It used to
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: be a Wizard of Oz, but but then it later
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: became the Aaron Carter How I Beat shack, he beat
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: shock and his dream was it a dream? Well, he
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: woke up and he was wearing Shaquille O'Neil's jersey, so
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a dream. He did beat check, sort of
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: like how was Rose dreaming at the end of Titanic?
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And some would say, yes, yes she was, she wasn't
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: and there's no proof. And then and then I say,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, I think it's just as viable and
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: option if she was dreaming, but irrefutable proof. You don't
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: have a hair tie, you don't have the Shaquille O'Neal jersey. Anyways, anyways,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: let's take a break story. Let's take a quick break,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: and we'll come right back, and we're back. Amy, is
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: there anywhere you would like to start anything jumping out
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: to you right away? Um? I guess like there's there's
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of contexts. I think it's really interesting for
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: this story. Um. Yeah, I think in particular, there's like, again,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: the localization was pretty incredible all things considered, and I
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: do think that is again a really really big reason
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: why the movie did so well and was so successful
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in English. Um. But I do think that the context
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: for this story and why it stands out compared to
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: early or ghibli works is really important. So um, the
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I guess the main thing being that, you know, Miyazuki
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: has said that he made this movie because he had
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: realized he hadn't made a movie for like, uh, for
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: young girls yet. Like I would say, kikiS liber service
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: kind of is, but that is an adaptation and um
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: in this case, like, so what he did, he like
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: was interacting I think with like some daughters of his
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: friends and realized that like he hadn't made a story
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: for them quite yet. Um. So you know, UM, I
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: think that's part of why, um, you know, to Hero
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: is ten years old. I think that this story and
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: the the way that he kind of got the idea
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: was reading um comics that were being published at this time.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: The readings that I saw specifically cited um Nakashi Magazine
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: and Ribbon Magazine, and these are two of the major
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: uh they're like basically three major magazines for young girls
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: in terms of comics that published monthly, and um Naco
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: she's a big one because that's like where Sailor Moon
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: was published in a bunch of stuff like that. And
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: so I was looking back at the I went specifically
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: to look back at what was being published in you know,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and two thousand for what he probably was reading basically,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, so you know, luckily, because these
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: are really big magazines, it's really easy to get the information,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: and so you know, just looking at some of the stuff, um,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: you know, they're they're all like there's you know, other
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: magical girls at this time. Um, and uh there's also
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: like stories like the UFO Baby, um, which is like
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: an alien baby comes from space and like someone has
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: to take care of it or whatever. Like, uh, there's
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: lots of all kinds of really ridiculous fun things that happened. Um,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of sci fi and fantasy elements in
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: these stories. But I think that as far as stuff
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: that is kind of relevant to spread it away, I
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: think one of the major things is, like, you know,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of these comics for why think, Uh, these
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: comics are almost always illustrated and written by women. It's
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: like this particular genre of comics for girls in Japan,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: it's very for for you know, decades now, has been
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: a very female lead um industry. But um, you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: these are stories that are meant to appeal to like
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: this exact demographic, so there's often like a little bit
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: of romance. Um there is uh to have like characters
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: like a hawk like character, right who is like you know,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: like you mentioned like this kind of eternal boyfriend or whatever.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: That is not uncommon um, but uh yeah, I think
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: that one thing that really stands out in comparison to
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: this movie is that a lot of the stories, if
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: they have fantasy or sci fi elements, they're definitely more
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: inspired by Western things, while Spirited Away, of course, is
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: extremely Japanese. So I do think that that is an
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: interesting like difference, I guess if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: And I was reading a lot about that context too,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: in terms of you know, Miyazaki wanting to create a
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: film specifically for ten year old girls, and which I
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: found interesting because like several of his movies before that
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: are like very appropriate for that specific target demo, because
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: like I was watching Toto as a ten year old girl,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: like you know, kikiS delivery services appropriate for a ten
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: year old girl, even though that character is a few
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: years older. But I mean kids love a few years older.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: That's aspiration. Um. Yeah, that he was like reading these
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: comics and felt that they only offered material about like
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: girls and their crushes and romances, and he felt that
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: that's not what at least like the you know, daughters
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: of his friends that he ended up wanting to make
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: this movie for what they deer in their hearts. So
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: he wanted to make this movie and about a female
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: heroine that those girls could look up to. So and
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: that's I think one of the other reasons that I
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: didn't read the Haku to hero relationship as a romance,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: because he deliberately was like, well, I don't want this
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: to be about like crushes and romance, but he gave
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: us that shot with the hands at the end, so
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: you know, right, But also the movie doesn't center around
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: their relationship. It's more about to hero, you know, doing
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: child labor. So yeah, yeah, it's definitely her story, which
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: is important, um, and he is like a factor of
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: the story. But like I think, you know, I definitely
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: see it as like something where I think it's like,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: for example, I was trying to think of like how
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: they would take the time to make it an explicit romance,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: and like, I guess the thing that would have to
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: happen is like something like the kissing, But that really
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: seems unlikely to me because like not to say that
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: kissing doesn't happen in kids stories or whatever, especially with
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: like hetero stories, but like kissing is a lot more
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: um for me, a lot more adult, a lot more
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: sexualized in Japanese culture, especially at this time. Um but
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: even today it's still the case. Um. So it's like
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: it would be very shocking to go that far. I
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: think there would have been issues if they had gone
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: that far. And I think that for the most part,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: with Miyazuki films, they never actually go through, like fully
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: going in a romantic route, even if they kind of
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: have a lot of like implied romance and a lot
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: of subtext um which is you know, nice for the
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: reason like you said, like you can opt in or
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: out of whether or not you read it as romantic,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: which I think. I think it's more clear in a
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: story like um like Ponio, which comes out later, and
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: that's like taking the Little Mermaid story but making the
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: characters five. It's very interesting. Um So it's like you
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: really can't have like a romance with five year olds
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: that last forever exactly, but they they so they changing around.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: But um yeah, I think with this story, like I
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: do like that, and I do think that it's it
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: is a thing where a lot of kids, especially young
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: girls who you know might be interested in voice, would
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: uh like appreciate that particular aspect. And yeah, I think
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: I definitely am. I don't I know hashtag phrases. Most
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: of the most of the kids I know who like
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: grew up with this movie also read it as romantic,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: if that makes sense. And when you contextualize it to
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: where Miyazaki was turning for inspiration and like, what were
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: girls you know who were his target audience actually reading
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and you know, pulling from magical girl tropes in a
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: way that felt like it's still fit in with who
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: he was as a filmmaker. It's like, I don't know,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: I wasn't for the reasons you were describing. I mean,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I wasn't really bothered by it, because you can read
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: it that way or not. It's true to the like
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: subculture for young girls that he's pulling from, and the
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: story doesn't fall apart if you don't view it romantically.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: The story remains basically the same. And I also, I mean,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: we don't try to get in the habit of handing
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: it to men too much, but Miyazaki. I will make
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: an exception because just of how I feel like it's
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: very rare to see uh male o'tour who we talked
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: about on this show all the damn time, and it
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: fits very cleanly into that description. But someone who has
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: committed to centering women in his work very often, And
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: also I mean what you were describing, it sounds like
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: over time he was more committed to it, which I
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: feel like often with male tours, you see like I'll
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: have one female protagonist, so people will leave me alone.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: It might there might be some holes in the story
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: and it might not be good, but I did it.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Uh here's my gone girl or whatever you know, and
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: she's gone, but she's not in the movie anyways. But
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Like Miyazaki, like you're saying, Caitlin like
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: centered girls in his work very frequently, but also was like,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: but I can take it further, and I can, you know,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: show this like spiritual growth and like reconciling capitalism and
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: the sins of her parents generation. I also loved this
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: movie hates boomers. It's like it's fun, Like this movie
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: like has in a way that doesn't really single out
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: um to heroes. Parents specifically, but it's clear that like
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, and then the more that I
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: was reading and researching, and I'm curious to talk about
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: this as well of just how the parent characters and
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: the pigs of capitalism and all that was like reflecting
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: on Japan's fairly recent history as well, and I just
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I really enjoyed learning about Miyazaki's personal
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: politics through researching this. And we'll continue to talking about
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: this as we continue talking about these movies. But his
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: movie is pretty consistently center girls and women. Uh, they
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: tend to be very anti war. He won an Oscar
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: for this movie and didn't show up to the ceremony
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: because he was protesting the war in Iraq and America's
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: brutal invasion, and like he just really appears to be
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: a real one in many regards. Yeah, yeah, And like
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: we've been discussing, he has, it seems invested interest in
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: exploring the like inner lives of girls and making movie
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: that I mean, children of all genders can appreciate, but
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: that like girls especially can see themselves reflected in, especially
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: because his movies are like applauded for their realism, which
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: might sound weird because a lot of them are so
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: heavy with fantasy. That was a weird way to say that,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: But I think fantasy is really good. I like it's
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: like when you're heavy with greg when you're gregnant, but
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: you're heavy with fantasy. So um. But just like the
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: relatable issues that a lot of the girls in his
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: movies are dealing with, there are a lot of like
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: you know, coming of age stories they're dealing with, just
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: like different sources of anxiety in their life. And we
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: see how that kind of manifests in the super imaginative
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: stories that are told in the movies. And I think
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: that's just like such an interesting thing because so many
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: male at tours don't have that vested interest and they're
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: just like, let's make toxic masculinity the movie five times
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: in a row, or even just like a passing curiosity.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: And another thing I mean that I appreciate it is
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: to Hero's story speaks to kids of all genders, and
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: it's it's I also appreciate that too, because I feel
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: like sometimes there's still this kind of convention right now
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: in this movie is twenty years old, but there's still
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: a convention of you know, taking that like every story
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: is about fathers and sons, and then then just being
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: like inverting it and being like, Okay, we're gonna put
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: a girl at the center of this story, so things
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: have to be a little different, and that it doesn't
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: like she's a relatable, motivated character who like messes up
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: sometimes succeeds other times in ways that make kind of
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: a stunning amount of sense in this like nonsense where
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: old that she's inhabiting. I really liked um when she
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: first meets Hako and she's told, you know, she's being
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: told by everyone, don't trust this person. Don't trust this person.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Don't trust this person, and it was like even unclear
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: to me, as if you were. I'm like, who can
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: she trust? And like watching her navigate that and sometimes
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: take one step in the wrong direction and take a
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: few like it just she's just like a very realistically
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: characterized kid, and I like that she's you know, rewarded
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: for not just taking gold, Like she's like there's a
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: dragon dying nearby. I can't I can't with your gold
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: right now, you know? Yeah, yeah, she has very clear
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: priorities and like, I mean, I do think I was
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: thinking about like how like in terms of how she
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: moves throughout the story, what amount of it is her
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: doing stuff on her own. And like, you know, at
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: the very beginning, you know, Hawku is very clear about
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: telling her what to do. But once she gets to Camagi,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: you know with that whole thing, um, you know, it's
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: up to her to actually convince him. And she doesn't
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: convince him to get a job there, but um, she
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: is able to you know, have an effect to like
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: at least enough of an effect that he like pushes
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: her in the right direction, right, um, because it could
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: ev all like stopped there if you know he said
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: no and she's like, well, okay, I'm screwed. But yeah,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: just he's able to keep going and everything. So and
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: her her actions there and throughout the movie, but like
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: again just kind of from that starting point in the
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: boiler room, like her choice is there affect the trajectory
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: of the story because then she like picks up a
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: piece of coal and then like throws it in the fire,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: and I guess that shows like, oh she is maybe capable.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: And then actually something I found really fascinating about this movie,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: And I think it's so it's like so cool that
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: this is clearly or at least the way I interpreted it,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: that the experiences that she goes through in this story
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: are like manifest stations of her anxiety of like moving
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: to a new place and like worrying if people will
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: accept her, and like having to reorient everything about her
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: life because she has left all of her friends behind
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: and everything that was familiar to her and she has
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: to like navigate this extremely unfamiliar situation, and like that's
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: so much of what happens externally in the movie. So
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: I thought that was like just a really cool way
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: to like show a character's anxieties manifested in like a visual,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: physical way. Um. But part of that is her meeting
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: all these people and like having to just kind of
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: get a sense of them, and a lot of the
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: first impressions that we as the audience get and that
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: she gets turned out to be wrong, because, like, for example,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Comagi seems way scarier and meaner than he actually is,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: and a lot of that is like kind of the
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: visual thing where it's like he has these long spider
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: like arms, there are six of them, and he starts
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: out being really annoyed by her, but then by the
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: end of that scene he's like she's my granddaughter. And
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: then like, Lynn also seems like just very annoyed by Jahiro,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: and it seems like she's going to be that way
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: for the entire movie. And I the first time I
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: watched this, I was like, oh, no, is this going
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: to be like a needlessly antagonistic relationship between two female characters.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: But it's not, because as soon as Jahiro kind of
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: expresses some vulnerability and she's like, I don't feel well
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: and she's very clearly overwhelmed by everything that's happening, Lynn
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: is like, oh my god, are you okay? Like, and
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: then she like kind of takes on this caregiver role,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: or at the very least she becomes her like ally
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and mentor. It feels very like big history or that.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Guess maybe that was like my eat of it as
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: a kid, and Lynn's character arc is so interesting to me.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like revisiting Lynn's character as like a young
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: adult under Capitalism, you really feel for Lynn in a
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: way that I certainly. I mean, as a kid, you're
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: a percent You're like, I am che hero and that
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: is my dragon boyfriend and like, but but you know,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: at this stage of my life, I feel like the
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: closest analog for for most of us is Lynn, who
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: is working in a service role in this big capitalistic entity.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: She is well liked but not well treated, and and
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: you don't get a ton of information about her backstory,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: but what you do is so like, so I don't know,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: just like the the economy of storytelling is so good
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: because there really one insight you it into who she
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: is and what she wants. Is like she watches the
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: train pass every day and wonders like, when is it
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: going to be my day to to get on that train?
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: And by that she means not working this dead end
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: job that I don't like and where I'm not treated
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: well and where you know, it becomes her responsibility in
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: a way that you know, is it fair? Is it not?
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: It's not fair, but I think it's the right thing
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: to do that she she takes on to Hero and
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: almost sees like it seems like a younger version of
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: herself of like, well, I hope that this kid can
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: get on the train, and then she does and it's nice. Yeah,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: what's interesting is um, I think it's really unclear And
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: I think also the voice actress choice in English doesn't
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: really help with this but according to like the original story,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: there's like a I mean, this is one of those things.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: There's like so many story notes about this movie. Lynda
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: is supposed to be fourteen in the original like iteration, yeah,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I guess that. Yeah, she's giving me a hard thirty two, right.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: I know she sounds she's out like an adult in
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: English for sure, and I feel like I definitely got
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: that when I was watching it in English before. But
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: like you know what, in preparation for this podcast, I
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: think the first thing I did was I watched the
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: full thing in Japanese without like taking any notes or anything,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: and so I feel like there are a few characters
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: that have pretty distinct differences, but hers is definitely the
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: biggest one. So like I think in Japanese, she definitely
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: sounds more like an older sister, but like she's also
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: like a like the way she carries herself. She uses
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: like very like hyper masculine language in a way that
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: like she's like trying to I guess, make up for
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: the fact that like she is a teenage girl. Um,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting. But yeah, I definitely see
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: her as being a very much like a big sister
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: to Chito. For that reason. Yeah, I liked their relationships
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: so much, and that there was like even moments towards
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: the end of the movie where there's even like these
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: passing moments in this movie where the characters are misjudging
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: each other or like not giving Like there's that moment
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: that I was like, I think it's Camagi that says
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: to Lynn in a way that I thought it was
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit harsh that you know. Lynn was like, oh,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: what broke the spell on Hakku? And Camagi is like,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: love something you've never felt in your life? And I
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, holyh it. And I was like, I
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: thought you guys were like kind of friends. And he's
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: saying that in kind of the same breath where he's like, yeah,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: I've had I know that it's your one dream in
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: your life to have a train ticket. I've had one
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: for thirty years. Anyways, you've never felt love in your life.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow, brutal. I didn't think that was
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: very nice to win. And then I was worried that.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that that was it's just like
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: again speaking to like how how good this is? Where
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like, especially in kids movies, sometimes I am
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: conditioned to think that if there is a kind of
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: dialogue spoken by a character that I'm not supposed to hate,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I interpret their dialogue as the moral compass of the movie,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: because that's how a lot of children's movies are written,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: where you're like, well, I don't know if if fucking
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Lumier says it, it's probably how bad could it be?
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: But again, there's like shades of grain and everyone in
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: this movie where like, we we like Camagi as a
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: character very much at this point, and then he kind
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: of like cuts Lynn down in this very I thought,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: kind of I don't know why I was, so I
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: was like I was scandalized by it, and I was
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: worried that. I was like, oh, are we not supposed
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: to like Linn anymore? Because I still like her? And
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: then in the next scene, Lynn is being her big
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: sister self again and she apologizes to Chihiro for calling
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: her a dope, which is like, I don't know what
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: the translation, but I just was like, what a worried
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: to apologize for. Later she's like, sorry, I I said
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: that when we first met, like you're great and you're
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and so that weird offhanded thing from
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Camogi isn't how the movie felt, That's just how Camaji
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: felt in that moment. For some reason, I'm like, where's
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Kamoji apologized to Lynn? That wasn't very nice? Yeah, I
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: noticed a lot um because they had the chance to
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: to watch it in both languages. I noticed that there
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: are some some things where the line read in English
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: is like more sarcastic or more rude in some cases
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: than in Japanese, where it's like more straightforward or more
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: maybe not necessarily like polite. Now I don't remember the
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: line read for like that exact thing, but like one
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: thing I remember for sure is um. You know, in
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: like near the beginning, Um, when when is going to
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Chehito to ask her to like eat the little berry
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: from the spirit worlds that she wouldn't disappear. In English,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: he's like, don't worry, you won't turn to a pig,
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: like you know, making a joke, but like in jack Nis,
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: he's completely serious about that line. So it's really interesting,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Like there are there are definitely some interesting things where
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: like there are kind of added things due to the localization,
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: which isn't bad. I think, you know, it's a very
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: very good localization and I think again that it's part
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: of why it's so successful. Um yeah, that's fascinating. I
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: hate to give Disney a lot of credit, but yeah, right,
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: especially because like John Lasseter had so much involvement in
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: this and you like never pleasant to see him. Yeah,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: because like because of him, um he like they took
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: on doing all the other Ghibli movies from before and so,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: um it's kind of interesting to like look back at
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: old like older Ghibli movies that have now been dubbed
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: by Disney um and see like more familiar. There are a
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of Disney names and so on. But um,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: I mean I think it's good because they're very good
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: at local ie thing and they took they did a
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: lot of things to like kind of fill in um
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: like cultural things that might not be as clear to
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: an English speaking audience. Um, Like there are there are
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: lines that are completely different because like they're trying to
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: like explain something because you know, you can't expect everyone
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: to know what like the Radish spirit is or something
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: like that. But um oh, the other one that I
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: remember was you know when so because like Hito gives
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: the first half of that little uh the little ball
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: to um hakku and that's when he vomits out the
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: seal and the slug. Yeah, and she has to step
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: on it, and they like explain the whole thing with
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: like putting her forefinger and thumb together, and they don't
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: explain that in Japanese. Um, they just do it. But
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: because Kamachi's off screen and they're able to like add
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: that line in and stuff. So it was like very
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: very clever, yeah and helpful. Yeah that I mean, I
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: wish I wish I knew more about that process without
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: having to watch twenty minutes of John Last that are talking,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: because it is so fascinating. Like, yeah, I think, I mean,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: I have the Blue Ray in uh in English because
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: wow brag, Yeah, but so you can watch it. I
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: think the North American Blue Ray has both the English
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: and French dub as well as the original Japanese and
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: even the French localization is different. It's really interesting. Yeah,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, and in the Disney dub, I mean you
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: we I guess mentioned this right away where I was
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: like hercules, but they they really I mean, and usually
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: when I say usually when anyone says Disney, it's pejorative,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: but in this one it was kind of it was
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: like funny to me, just like how specifically this era
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Disney the dub cast is where literally the voice of
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Lilo is the voice of Hiro, the voice of Max
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: goof of a goofy movie is Haku. Like, it's so Disney,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: what about an extremely goofy movie though, Yeah, same guys work.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: The guy who did Cogsworth and Beauty and the Beast
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: is Comagi. I mean, the list goes on. It's it's
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of a whole lot of um. Anyways,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and come back for more discussion,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: and we're back. I said a few more thoughts on
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: to Hero's character before we kind of move into the
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: next area. Yeah, I mean one thing that struck me,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: I mean is and this is again such a small thing,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: but I like that she is consistently positioned as even
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: when she is confused and doesn't know what to do,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: she's always positioned as a strong, resilient character. Like her
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: not knowing what's going on or not having the skill
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: that she needs yet is never posed as like a
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: reason to judge her in a way that sometimes they
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: think we're like conditioned to see female characters, especially young
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: female characters as like helpless and damseled and unable to
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: get out of their predicament on their own. A lot
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: of that is to to Disney movies that you know,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: we're working on the same movie or or the like.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: The I guess converse of that is that the right word?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Why did my brain shut off? Anyway? The inverse? I
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: was like, it's not converse. That can't be right the shoe.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: The inverse of that is the precocious you know, ten
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: or twelve year old girl that we see all the time,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: where they somehow are geniuses with PhD s and they
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: know everything about all adult things. None of that is
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: is present in two Hero. And on top of that,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: like she is not, I mean she is. She openly
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: cries at several times in the story in a way
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: that again it is like she's allowed to have these
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: moments of strength and decisiveness. She's allowed to have moments
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: where she has no idea what the fun is going on,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: because like you, as the viewer, I have no idea
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: what the funk is going on? And you have moments
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: where she like very understandably in the way that any character,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: but particularly a ten year old who has just lost
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: her parents to becoming a pig, which also I was like,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: I wonder how Miyazaki was into animal Farm and the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: answer is very he was very into animal Farm and
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: it shows. But but that she's allowed these moments of
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: intense emotional vulnerability in a way that doesn't take like
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: it only elevates her character, because I feel like that
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: it just like reminds you, as an adult viewer now
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: like this is a child, and and like, of course
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: she's going to cry when confronted, but yet another stranger
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: who she doesn't know if she can trust or not.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: And I liked that she's very much a hero and
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: an aspirational character for kids watching, but in a way
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: that again for the for the genre, and like the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: situation she's in, it feels really realistic of like how
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: a kid would react in that situation. Yeah, can we
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: talk about the first time she cried, because that's like
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: a really I think a big I think one of
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: the visually one of the more iconic parts of the
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: whole movie. But yeah, because like for the first part
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: of her being in the bathhouse, she's like kind of
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: just holding everything in, um, you know, doing what she
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: has to do, and like not really complaining about it
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: or anything, just like being really headstrong because she has
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: to be. But then it's like we see that, you know,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: she's having trouble sleeping, and then how coo, Like while
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: she's a while she's in the room with all the
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: other women, he kind of like sneaks and is like, oh,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: meet me by you know this by the bridge, and
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: she goes, and like they do the whole thing with
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: the parents, and he gives her clothes back because she
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: needs them to go back to the human world, and
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: she and also the cards and she can remember her name,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: and then he gives her the rice balls um which
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: he says I don't know if they're actually is a
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: spell on them or if he just saying that, but
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: he says like, oh, this will give you your strength back.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: And I think it's basically the same in Japanese. And
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: that's the first time she cries, and she cries so big,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: like her eyes well up in her like it's just
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: like her entire eye just like turns into a puddle.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: It's it's definitely an iconic like visual to say the least.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: But I think it's really interesting that like it's when
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: she's you know, finally given that chance to be vulnerable
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: and like let it all out that like you can
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: really see that she is has been holding in those
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: tears the whole time. Yeah, and that's what's so great
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: all this movie. And again I haven't watched all of
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Miyazaki's work, but of the ones that I have seen
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: and can speak to his treatment of these characters in
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: showing them being active and making choices but making mistakes,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: and being vulnerable but having the strength to go on
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: and do what you need to do and just like
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: all of these like aspirational and empowering qualities that like
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: young girls can see and admire. That to me is
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: the most like one of the most effective versions of
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: feminism in movies, more so than for example, my favorite
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: example to make fun of is like when in whatever
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Avengers movie when all of the like seven female superheroes
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: like start walking beside each other and they're like, and
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: now it's our turn, and we're gonna have this one
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: moment for twenty seconds in the movie where we're awesome
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: to protect Spider Man, right, Like It's so it's like,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: truly just treat women like people, like that's all you
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: just described as treating a people character like a person,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: like the's a complicated person, which, like when I was
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: reading a few different accounts of like people being like
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: it's so cool that your movies are so feminist Muzaki,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: and he was like, I don't know about that. I
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: just want to entertain people and write interesting characters. So yeah,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: like that's all it takes. Yeah, yeah, definitely, Like obviously,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: I'm really happy that this movie does feature a ten
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: year old girl, but you wouldn't have to change anything
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: about the movie if it was about a ten year
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: old boy or a ten year old on my dairy child,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: So like it's yeah, it's it's pretty great, right, Yeah,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: I love I love to hear so much. Um Also,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: she saves a boy, she doesn't have to be well
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: I guess. I mean you can make an argument that
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: like he at the beginning like saves her a little
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: bit and like gets her away from immediate danger, but
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: it feels like an exchange of movie I'm cutting it
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: too much, like but like it feels like a friendship exchange.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: And then because she saves him by going on a
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: long journey with her new friends on a train and
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: apologizing and all that and you know, feeding him a ball. Yeah,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: should we should we talk about capitalism? Let's do it
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: feel like it was going to come up hit it? Yeah?
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: So I again, I don't know. I learned a lot
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: about the end of the twentieth century economy in Japan
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: via learning about this movie. I'm sure we all did
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: you you probably do more than we did already. Um,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: this movie is really interest I mean the way that
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: it gets a really solid criticism of capitalism that it
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: can work for anyone, but also works very specifically for
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: Japan at the time this movie came out and works
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: again like both ways is so incredible to me. Where
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: it's like, I guess speaking to it in the broad sense,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: the bath house is this capitalist entity. You know, you
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: have your your character at your at the top your
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: you Boba's of the world. Um, she's dressed in a
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: more i think traditionally like Western way. She doesn't interact
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: with the working class like her whole I mean, and
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: it's like to the point where it's like she's known
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: for taking your name, stripping you of your identity, overworking you,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: and being very, very unfeeling toward anyone who isn't her
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: own plight. She's only responsive to people once she finds
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: out that they have money, and even then, I mean,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: I think I think it's a just another like shade
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: of gray that comes up in this movie. Is like
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: she's very like Mr Crabs motivated I would say, by
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: by money. When she finds out that No Face has
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: a ton of money. At first she's thrilled until No
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Face becomes too unruly and two other and then she's like, Okay,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: you're actually a monster and you're you're bad. You have
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: to get the funk out. And she did essentially one
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: of the different version of the same thing to the
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: Stink Monster when he came in, where it's like, Okay,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: I'll take your money, but I'm not going to respect
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: you or consider your plight, and just like and and
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: then you know, putting hiro in in in kind of
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: contrast to that, where to Hero, like she doesn't want
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: to financially profit from being trapped here. She just wants
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: her family and she wants her basic needs met and
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: she wants her friends to be okay, you know, but
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: she's like put into child lay, I mean, and then
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: on the other end, you there's just so many different,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: like different ways and then with Lynn you have another
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: perspective of like someone who clearly resents the capitalist system
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: but feels stuck there and feels unable to get out,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: and she's very much a cog in a wheel. And
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: then this I'm not quite as sure of. UM, So
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: if anyone knows more, please jump in. But I based
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: on the research I was doing and like reading interviews
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: that were happening at the time of the release of
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: this movie, UM, I thought it was like I learned
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: at least a little from what she heroes parents are
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: supposed to resent represent in terms of like the specific
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: moment they appear in where um. And again I didn't
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: know this. I mean it was like pretty true in
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: the U s as well, But like that in the eighties,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a huge capitalist fucking boom across extremely
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: industrialized nations. And it sounds like a lot of what
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Zaki was trying to say with the parent characters in
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: you know, them disrespecting the spiritual grounds that they arrived on, consuming, consuming, consuming,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: without any care for whose work they were consuming, who
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: was making it, whether we're gonna pay or not. They
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: were just sort of like, who cares, it's here, let's
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: go let's go nuts, and that as a criticism of
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: that generation of middle class, upper middle class and above
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: in Japan, I that is just I mean, I definitely
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: didn't know that when I was ten. Now, another thing
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: I thought was cool about to Hero's characters specifically was again,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: and it's her who figures out that the stink spirit
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: is not actually a stink spirit. It's you know, there's
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: something else going on. There was like something wedged in
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: that spirit's body, and it turns out to be a
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: bunch of liketion base sickly right, so we also have
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: some like cool environmental themes happening. But um, she figures
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: it out to Hero saves the day with that river spirit,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: and the river spirit leaves behind all of this gold,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: and you Baba is like, oh my gosh, Chihiro, actually
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: you're awesome now, thank you so much. And it's not
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: until that happens that you Baba respects Chihiro in any way.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: And for maybe a different person they'd be like, oh, well,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: if I can make my boss more money, then I'll
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: get more respect, So then I should make it a
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: point to try to make my boss more money. Uh.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: But instead she heroes like every time gold is offered
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: to her, She's like, I don't want your fucking gold.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to help out my dragon boys always like
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: dragon fleeting nearby. So I thought that was cool and uh,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: leftist icon Chihiro. Yeah, I think what's really interesting, Um,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: and this is kind of again, like I get really
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: present in a lot of Japanese media for girls, is
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: that like the fact that she doesn't really care about money,
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: it also does feel like a part of her upbringing
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: and her privilege that she's never had to worry about money. Yeah,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: especially the way that like her father talks about you
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: know how it's okay they're going to eat all this
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: food because he has credit cards in cash, you know,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: like no problem. Um. But like, and that definitely does
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: sound like something apparent at the time might say, but
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: I do think that, Um it's it's kind of I
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: guess I have mixed feelings about her not caring about money, because, um,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: it definitely is you know a thing where like when
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: she refuses to take old from from No Face in
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: that one scene, which because she's trying to go help Haku. Um,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: the one guy was like, Oh, don't worry about her,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: She's just a human. She doesn't know any better. And
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: it does feel like human is a kind of placeholder
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: for child in that way where it's like children don't
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: know about money, like they don't know any better. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: it is complicated, which is like, but that's why I'm
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: glad that Lynn is there to like present a sympathetic
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: character that we're rooting for who is stuck in it.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: And and unfortunately, I feel like we're led to believe
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: that she kind of remains stuck in it. We kind
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: of leave her there. It's not like she got on
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: the train unfortunately, which again is like, I don't know.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's an interesting bittersweet. I hope Camogi had
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: another ticket. I don't know. I can't believe he told
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: her he had another ticket the whole time. That's so mean. Uh, Anyways,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: team Lynn over here, because you would, you would. You're
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: led to believe I mean that you know, Lynn probably
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: did not grow up with very much if that's a
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: job that she is unable to leave, So you're totally righty,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, where it you know hiro does? I mean
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: she benefits from the privilege of being a child and
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: not having but also she she benefits from being a
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: child who like worrying about money has we're sort of
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: it to believe is not a big issue for her
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: because her parents are driving out capitalists who turn into
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: yeah Orwellian uh, you know, Orwellian figures. So so there's yeah,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: there's definitely I appreciate that there's at least foils to that.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: And then especially and then that leads right into the
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: fact that like we're joking about it, but the fact
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: that you know, Jahiro is constantly like, I don't want
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: your money. There's a dragon bleeding in the other room.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: The dragon bleeding in the other room is Haku, who
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: ends up being this, you know, big metaphor for the
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: environment because and again, just like another one offline that
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: revisiting it now you're like, oh my god, like where
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: you know they're they're literally falling out of the sky
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: having a very calm conversation, which I love um. And
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: and she's like, she's like you're the river and he's like,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: I am the river. Damn it's true. That's exactly what
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: he says. And but then but then she's like, I
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: know that what that river is, it doesn't They filled
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: it in and its apartments now and he's like, oh,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: that must be why I'm not a river anymore, and
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: like just that you know now you're like, oh, you
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: know exactly what Miyazaki is trying to do. And then
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: Haku is also utilized as a character as I think,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, as as I guess I'm kind of yet
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: another in into capitalism commentary that's different from Lenz because
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: he is this environmental symbol who ends up in the
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: pocket of capitalism, which um like he is. You Baba's like,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: uh uh you know he's her what, her assistant, her apprentice,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: and it sounds like he's again I'm like, I don't
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: know that I feel bad when someone steals from you bomba.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: People seems like redistribute except for the baby and uh,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: you know, best of luck to the baby. Shout out
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: to the baby. The baby was supposed to represent, but
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: it was really big. I actually do think there's something
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: I have. I do have thoughts about um both the
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: baby um because so like I mean, you Baba is
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: for anyone who is listening for some reason and hasn't
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: watched the movie. You Baba is very differently designed from
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: all the other characters. She does have like western South dress,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: you as a giant head, and that's part of why
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: she has a giant baby. But she's also like an
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: older woman and that of her giant head. Yeah, I
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: don't know where um um. But in any case, yeah,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: like we we don't really know much about like why
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: she would be an older woman with this baby, but
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: this baby is huge but also mentally very much a baby.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: And then we later learned that the baby can in
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: fact speak perfectly fine and speaks in full sentences. Um.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: And it's like it's like very interesting because it's like
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: this is a baby that has been uh for as
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: long as we know, like the for its whole life,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: has been trapped in this one room and you know,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: he's like afraid of going outside. Um, which is like
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: kind of almost like the polar opposite to Jigito situation
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: to me, where like she's, yeah, she's exploring a whole
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: new world. She's facing all these challenges herself, and even
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: if she is afraid, she doesn't let that stop her
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: from moving forward. So um, I think it's really interesting.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: And then and I wanted to say um because we
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: haven't talked about it yet, but I think the names
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: of the characters are very important and um in particular, Like,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: so the big word that's used a lot in this
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: story is spirits, which would be coming in Japanese, but
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: when it comes to the mythology stuff is not really
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: one to one and coming can both spirits and then
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: full on gods. So like and in particular, Kohaku's name,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: his real name is actually different in Japanese. So his
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: his name in Japanese is Niki Hayami Khaki and it's
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: meant to invoke like the name of a god or
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: so the idea is like he was a full on
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: god and then like cannot return home because of you know, environmentalism.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: So she's got a dragon boyfriend slash river boyfriend slash
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: god boyfriend, yes, magical girl troups, yes, yes, very much.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: So my boyfriend is god yea, yeah exactly. So it's uh,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting. Um yeah, it's like it's not really
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: like clear, but like you could definitely make that like
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: distinction that like he is he was a god before
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: you know all this, And again he's a god that
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: looks twelve years old apparently, So yeah that's fast. I
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: had no idea. Yeah, um, but yeah, the names are
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: so interesting to me in general for the movie, if
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: it's okay to talk about it, please yes. So, Like,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: even the name Tchihito itself, it's like this name was
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: at the time one of the most popular like names,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: Like it's basically like the most not the most average
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: name for a ten year old, but pretty average for
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: ten year old at this time. UM actually went through
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: the data of like name rankings UM in Japanese and
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: found that like her name peaked at the number four spots.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: It's not really as big now. I think for the
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: most part, people who name their kids to heto these
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: days are specifically naming it after this character. Yeah. Um,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: but her name basically means like a thousand questions, so
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: like she's like like asking a thousand things. So the
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: cheat in her name once you take away the second part,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: it does become send, So send means one thousand in Japanese,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: so that's like very deliberate. And you know, the Japanese
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: title of this movie is Santotio Kai Kai so San
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: and two Heroes Spiriting Away. Yeah, and the other thing
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting about the way the movie
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: looks um like the kind of spirit restaurant area that
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: they go to before the bathhouse. Um, I believe it
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: is very inspired by a specific place in I want
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: to say, I can't remember it's Taiwan or China specifically,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: but there is like an actual place and the food
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: that the parents eat is those are real things you
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: can eat, um, which is pretty cool. But um, I
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: do think it's interesting that they went outside of Japan
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: for those uh for this images, and like all the
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: signs and stuff are super weird. Um. I think my
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: favorite one is uh, I was looking at some like
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: there's a shot where you know she's first running through
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: and you start to see spirits and there's like lanterns
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: that say come here but backwards. Um, so it's like
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: super creepy. Yeah. Yeah. And then the bath house itself.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: I think the first thing is the name of the
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: bath house is written backwards and um, you can be
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: um the you and like you baba. For example, it
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: means hot water, but for the bath house name, they
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: don't use you as in hot water. They use you
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: as an oil, which is really interesting. So you see
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: that the character for oil everywhere. Um, you Baba's name
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: basically just means like hot water lady or how hot
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: her grandmother? I don't know, it's like kind of is
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: not a really direct translation. And then her twin sister,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: Zenniba Zennise comes from like a public bath, which is interesting,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: so it's like two different Yeah, OK, because she's a
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: twin of the people. Yeah yeah, yeah for sure. Um yeah.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: And then like names like like Kamaji just means pretty
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: literally boiler old man, like it's very yeah, but yeah,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: those are like I guess for me, like this, like
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: the major names, there is a shot where you can
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: see all the names, um where like they're kind of
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: turning their their time cards. I guess they'll have their
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: names on them, and like you can see they're all
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: like super short names that were clearly like taken from
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: a longer name. I think that's really cool, um to say,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: like you Bobba stole their original name and replaced it
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: with something like simpler. Yeah basically yeah, so it's it's
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: pretty cool. It's pretty interesting. So you can assume the
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: same thing happened to lenn as well. Um right right,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: her name used to be Caitlin want I I do
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: wish we knew a little more about line, but it's
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: like we what we do learn, It's like enough for
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: the story to to work and work and work. But
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, I want to know. We got
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: to find out what how cou'se deal was, What is
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Linn's deal. I didn't didn't know that this is going
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: to radicalize me in favor of working class icon Lynn.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: But she's you know, she's got the union going in
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: there now I know it. I know it. Or maybe
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: she escaped in that little like circular pedal boat thing.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: I have to say. Um. I wanted to talk about
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: the character design, specifically of you Baba and Zaniba, since
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: they are identical where they are the only two old
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: women in the story, and the character design and I
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: guess this is subjective, but it's not the most flattering
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: character wo hot take. I mean, maybe some people look
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: at you Baba and I was like, wow, what a
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: sexy bitch, but and they're right to do so. Well
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe where is Zoniba you Baba is, but right
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: like that, I think that any older I mean, there's
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: the only older women in the story, and they're pretty
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: aggressively othered and how they appear and how they look.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: And I was worried that like this movie was leaning
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: into villainizing the only old female character we get to know,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: especially because we only Zeneba doesn't show up until maybe
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: like halfway through the movie, or maybe even later than
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: that longer. Yeah, so for a long time, it's just
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: this one older female character, and she's the villain, and
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: she's designed to be pretty grotesque and scary and all
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: this stuff. So I was concerned about the handling of that.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: And then you meet Zeneba, who is similarly scary and
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: aggressive at first, but then she's one of those characters
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: who seems one way at first, and then when we
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: see her again, like when to Hero pay her a
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: visit to give back the Golden Steel, suddenly she's this
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: sweet granny, literally granny making scrunch ees on a loom.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh, yes, granny. And then I love how
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: she kind of takes in no face too nice. I was.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: I I didn't quite know where to fall there, because
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: I did for the vast majority of the movie. Yeah,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: the only older woman is mothered pretty aggressively in a
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: way that like, if you read it from a moralistic standpoint,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, yeah, she's the you know, she is
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: the capitalist overlord of the story, but also she's the
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: only older woman in the story, and that seems maybe
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: a little unfair. And the other thing that I did
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: pick up on there, that is something we've talked about
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: with animated movies before. It's always like a little ping
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: annoyance for me because I work in animation and I'm
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: always like, can we not do this? And it always happens.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: Um is, we have a lot of different like I
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: don't know, like the spirits come in all different forms,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: they're all different animals, they're all different, you know, they're
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: they're drawn and characterize all very differently, but there's really
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: only any sort of like variety in male coded characters.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: All the women basically look like some version of a
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: youngish woman who is a human. And that always bugs me.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: And that's all like, no matter how progressive you find
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: an animation, it's always like, well, we don't wanna we
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: don't want to like have a fun mix of body
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: types and species in a movie where literally anything cannon
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: does happen. So that was like a little thing that
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: I always kind of get frustrated by, the most egregious
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: example that I think we've talked about, Caitlin. It's like
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: I always think of it as like ghostbuster syndrome where
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: all the you know, male coded ghosts are like, well,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: I'm a pile of shit, and then like the woman
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: is like, I'm a human woman that's really horny, and
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: you're like a super sexy, horny ghost lady. And obviously
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: this is not you know, a sin of that caliber,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: but I did, I did. I was like, man, most
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: of the women we meet, with the exception of the
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: other older woman villain, they all kind of look like
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: generally attractive, youngish human women. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: mean we haven't really talked about like it's kind of
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: hard to talk about diversity in this movie, which is
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: EMBOSSI about a bunch of spirits, so not like a
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: lot of human characters or anything. But you know, like
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: the only time, like the only character who is has
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: any sort of other body shape is you know, you
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: bab A Zuniba, who again are drawn identically. And then
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: so there's like the really silly thing was like, how
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: can you not tell me, apart from your own mother,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: to pull the baby? And it's like, because you guys
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: are drawn sati the same um And she's also the
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: only like Zaniba who is supposed to be the nice
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: old lady is the only character that like actually says
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: something fat phobic to Bow like he she comments on
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: him being really fat, like you know, a chubby baby.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: And I mean he's he's a giant baby, but he's
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: still very baby shaped. I don't know, right, Yeah, he's
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: not like a grotesque or anything like, it's not it's
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: not he's not like drawn an exaggerated way like to
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: look like a very particularly scary baby. He's just like
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: a very big, fat baby. But like most babies are fat, right,
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: And like, do you guys know what movie we're watching?
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, exactly, Um, but yeah, like it's you know,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: there isn't really a lot of like I would it
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: would be really cool to have more diversity of like
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: especially with the female spirits, like how they look. It's
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: like basically there are two types of female spirits. There's
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: the ones with like proportioned heads that are similar to
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: humans like Lynn, and then there's the ones that have
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: like very large heads. And that's it. Like that's a
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: that's a variety and female characters in this movie. Yeah,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: but the O there's no other particular like and again,
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: we only have like basically one human family that we're
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: looking at. So there isn't a lot of guests room
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: for diversity, but it would have been nice if there
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: was a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, I mean, speaking
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: to Jahiro's parents, what we do know of them, I
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: do at least appreciate that it's like they're both damseled
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: by the story, Like it's not one you do get
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: that thing that I think we bumb up in movies
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: a lot, where it's like the dad is more gregarious
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: and likable and like seems to be less of the disciplinary.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: And then Jahiro's mom. Um, It wasn't a huge issue
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: for me because they're barely in the movie, but I
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, yeah, he's I guess he's he's kind
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: of like the fun dad. But also her mom goes
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: right along. She's it's if anyone's like the come on,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: don't you guys stop it, it's Jahiro. Shahiro is the
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: one that's like, we're capitalism and too close to the sun. Yeah,
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: because her mom's like, yeah, I'll fucking I'll eat all
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: this food, I'll go down this tunnel. I don't give
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: a ship. Yeah, you know, their names don't come up
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: in the actual text, but they do have names. And
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: I think it's really funny because her father's name is Akio,
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: which the kanji for which is a bright husband and
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: um and then her mother's name is um Uko, which
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: is like the kanji is basically like like what's it called,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: like a calm child, and the child part being like
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: that's a that's a factor of you know, Japanese girl's
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: names more especially at the time and older generations. In
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: recent years has like kind of fallen out of favor.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: But child was a very common character to use in
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: girls names compared to adults being used and boys names
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: or whatever. But um, yeah, but like the idea, like
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: she's like that their names really match their personalities and
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: their generation. But yeah, it's like they're they're very much
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: like chosen like kind of stock characters. That makes sense.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: That yeah, that does That's interesting. Um. Does anyone have
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: any final thoughts about the movie? My last thing was just, um,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: no face. Uh. We've talked about no Face a bunch
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: where at different times they appear as this capitalism metaphor
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: and then other times I liked the I mean, Shahiro
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: has this I guess like childlike in a good way,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: but also just like this kind of superhuman ability of
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: like forgiveness and a willingness for like almost I think
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: you can make an argument for like Jahiro believes in
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: restorative justice, um with at least with No with with
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: No Face, and also with the Stink Monster, where she's
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: you know, the central character who does not judge people
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: based on how they look or um. I think like
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: through the story learns to you know, at least challenge
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: her first impressions of people or what she's told to
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: think about the people in spirits and creatures that she meets.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: And I was touched by her relationship with No Face,
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: which in my memory I think it's just because like
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: that iconic image of them together, I remember the movie
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: as them being together way more than they actually are.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: Not true, They're actually not together very much. Um, but
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: just that you know, No No Phase does some shit,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: like No Face is really committing some crimes in there
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: and eating some poor people, which which I also would
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: not have been upset if Hiro was like No Face
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: it's been real, um, but you need to go to
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: therapy and work on yourself, not my I'm not going
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: to take on this emotional labor at this time. No
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: Face which also would have been totally fair and I
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: would have been completely happy with that. But I just
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: thought it was an interesting creative choice, which maybe, again,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: like Puts, we've mentioned this like, uh, you know, Chihiro
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: is taking on a lot of people shit uh in
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: this story in a way that you know, maybe it
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: certainly isn't fair to her, um, but she does it willingly.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: It seems like an out of her own nature. And
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: I appreciated how, you know, once it felt like No
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: Face demonstrated a desire to not behave the way that
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: they were behaving, and they you know, freed the people
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: that they ate from themselves, and then Chahiro was like, Okay,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: let me get you out of this horrible like out
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: of this like toxic environment and take you to Granny
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: and see how you do. I just thought that was
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: an interesting I guess, I don't know what like more oralistic.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: They could go either way, but um, I thought it
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: was an interesting choice. Yeah, I feel similarly conflicted. Yeah,
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: she does blame the bath house specifically for causing No
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: Face to be this way, which is interesting and also
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: probably another iconic shot of this movie is like, well,
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: because like you know, he is violently vomiting all over
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: the bath house um and chasing what did you do
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: to me? And luck in in doing so. There's a
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: part where you Babba tries to fight him off and
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: gets also covered in um no face vomit, and that
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: is that's nice. I like that. I like that part.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: I was a big fan of that as well. He
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: loved it. Yeah, any anything else that folks want to cover,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: I think that's it for me. Yeah? Same Here does
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: Spirited Away pass? The back to test yes yeah to
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: Hero and you Baba to Hero and in to hero
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: in Zeneba. My favorite pass was can't you even manage
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: a yes ma'am? Or thank you? Yes ma'am? What a
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: dope hurry up like pass that passes? Like in the
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: first scene, because like the first the whole first scene
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: is you know, Chito's mother talking to Chito as they're driving. Yeah, true, yeah,
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: so like right away wow. Uh Now on to the
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: main event. The nipple scale nipple scale zero to five nipples.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: Based on looking at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: I will give Spirited Away. I'm like somewhere around a
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: four or four and a half. I think there are
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: some issues with some of the character designs with the
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: female characters or female coded characters specifically, But other than that,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: I can't really come plain about much else because I
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: and you know me, I love to complain, so we've
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: made a career of it truly. So yeah, I mean,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: just between the protagonist of this movie being a relatable
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: and active female character who is someone that can be
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: admired by the target demo of specifically ten year old
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: girls according to Miyazaki, um, but also people of all
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: age ranges, people of all genders. It's just such a
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: cool character, such an interesting story just watching like the
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: choices she makes and the friendships she develops, and um,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just like it's all really it
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: just seems like effortletlessly feminist. Again, not to hand it
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: to an autour man, but it's just like, I don't know,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: it's it's great. Um, I'll give it four and a
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: half nipples. One will go to to Hero, one goes
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: to Lynn, one goes to Zeneba. I'll give one to
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: No Face, especially no Face pre and post bath house.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: No Faces behavior in the bath house again seduced by capitalism,
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: but No Face overcomes that and um gets a job
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: as Zeneba's knitting slash weaving apprentice, so that's fun. Uh,
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: and then my half nipple will go to non binary
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: icon the footballs I'll go forward a half as well.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: I really love this movie. I think that it's doing
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: so much that movies in general are not doing effectively
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: much less movies that are accessible to everyone. I I
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: of Jehudo. I love the environmental message, the capitalism message
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: for the most part works for me. There's little moments
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: where you're like, but for the most part, I think
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: it's really well done and clearly just based on what
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: I now know of Miyazaki's politics and track record, all
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: come from a very good place. Yeah, I love you know,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: kind of his cinematic mission and tendency to center female
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: characters and the fact that, like you were saying earlier,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: and I mean like there, they wouldn't have made a difference.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: There could have been a kid of any gender in
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: this character and it would have been just as impactful
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: and wonderful. Some of the animation choices. I mean, it's
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: a gorgeously animated movie. Uh, that's not the issue. It's
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: just yeah, the the a few a few tropes with
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: how women are animated in large animation projects, were still
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: present here in a way that I was hoping it
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be. But it's a little thing in a movie,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: this doing so much right and holds up so well.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: I would show this to a kids that wouldn't be
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: awake crying their eyes out over some of the more
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: horrific images in it anytime. Um So I'll go four
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: and a half nipples. I'm going to give two to Hiro,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give to to the baby, and I'm
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: gonna give the last half Oh wait, sorry, taking him
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: from the baby, giving them to Lynn. Baby gets half
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: a nipple done perfect. Um yeah, I think I kind
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: of almost want to met you guys, but I think
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with four nipples on this one. Um So,
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: you know, the reasons that you mentioned are really good.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: One thing we didn't talk about that I forgot we
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: probably should have mentioned is like in terms of every episode,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: where like oops, there was a whole huge thing we
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: forgot to say in terms of like the production, Um,
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: I couldn't find any women in the major roles of
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: this movie. Um so that's yeah, that that takes away
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: a half nipple for me, and then the other half
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: is yet the representation and stuff. I think overall, it's
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: just a really great movie. Again, you know, it was
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: the top movie in Japan for almost twenty years for
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: good reason. Like, you know, you can still show this today.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: There's a you know, the stage show going on in Tokyo,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: like right now, this show, this story is still very accessible.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: Uh now, So it's just really like it's yeah, just
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: a great story. And the fact that it's able to
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: translate so easily to everyone around the world is uh, yeah,
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: it's great. And it's also the reason why we got
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: more ghibli localizations. Uh moving forward. So as far as
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: who gets the nipples goodness, I should have everything, yes, um,
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: I think definitely one to you know, and one to Lynn.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: You know. I'll give one to Sniva just because, like
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: you know, she her the problems to their character and
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: both see, just because of how she's drawn and that's
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: you know, not her fault. Um, And I'll give one
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: to the little Bird, not not the big bird, but
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: the little bird. It's an icon as well. Yes, I
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: love that. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you for
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: having me. It's been an honor and a privilege. Oh
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: my goodness, come back any time. Yes, I would love to.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: Where can people follow you on social media? Tell us
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: about your podcast, tell us about anything you'd like to
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: tell us about. Yeah, so I guess you know the
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: first thing. If you like what I had to say today, Um,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at I
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: You she Knows. So that's a y U S A
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: g kN o w S. And if you're a fan
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: of the magical girl genre, I talk about it every
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: week with fans and sometimes creators on Sparkle side chats
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: with magical Girl Are You? And you can find those
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Magical Girl Are You? Um,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: let's see. Also, I made my voice acting debut this
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: earlier this year, and that's on the s I've thank you.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: I'm on the sci fi Western anthology podcast Breathing Space
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: Fading Frontier. Um, I'm in one episode of season two,
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: but it was a lot of fun and if you
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: are interested in that genre, you should just listen to
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: the whole podcast. But yeah, it's pretty awesome and thank you.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: And then, um, finally, my most recent thing that I like,
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: My most recent translation project was this anthology of Sapphic
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: comics featuring butch and butch relationships that are created by
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: queer and trans Japanese artists. It's called Boyish Boyish and
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: spelled like Boyish squared. But yeah, you can find that
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: if you search for Boyish to book on the socials.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: Should be able to find that everywhere. And you know
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: they're working on like they want to be able to
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: make another like another edition, like a part two of
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: that that anthology. So you know, if the more people
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: you can buy digital copy or physical copy, I think so,
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a really great, beautiful bunch
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: of stories. Um. Yeah, it was so fun to work on.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: It's like a dream project. So that's awesome. Yeah, hell yeah,
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: I will will link that in the description as well.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: We'll be linking everything. UM. Thank you so much for
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: joining us acad and and um for kicking off the
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: Miyazaki unit Miyazaki months. I keep hesitating the same month
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: because I fear that we yeah, we'll not get it
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: all done at once, but we will get it all
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: done eventually. Yes. And you can follow us on Twitter
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: and Instagram at bectel Cast. You can subscribe to our
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: Matreon that's at patreon dot com. Slash Petel Cast. It
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: gets you Tube bonus episodes every month, plus access to
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: the entire back catalog of bonus episodes, and you can
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: always get merged over at t public dot com slash
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: the Bectel Cast. With that, we we can't look back.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: It's hard to say did the podcast happen? We'll never know.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute. I have this shiny
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: hair tie. I'm wearing a jersey that's a Shaquille O'Neal.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: What does it mean? It all happens, It happens. Okay,
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: bye bye bye