Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Child Sex Perv Talks Delphi Murders of Little Girls

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Child Sex Perv Talks Delphi Murders of Little Girls · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Abby and Libby, two names
0:15
Speaker 1: I have not forgotten. Abigail Abby Williams, Liberty Libby German.
0:21
Speaker 1: People often refer to the Delphi murders generically, but we're
0:26
Speaker 1: talking about two little girls, ages thirteen and fourteen, that
0:30
Speaker 1: lost their lives at the Delphi Bridge. Their case is
0:35
Speaker 1: still not solved. This Valentine's Day, five years ago, their
0:42
Speaker 1: bodies were found. All these two little girls did was
0:47
Speaker 1: gopher a walk. Their families dropped them off. How could
0:51
Speaker 1: everything go so wrong in the last hours. A bombshell
0:57
Speaker 1: interview with one guy who allegedly was communicating with the
1:03
Speaker 1: two little girls, or at least one of them, pretending
1:06
Speaker 1: to be someone their age. This guy confesses that he
1:12
Speaker 1: routinely communicated with underaged girls I'm talking thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,
1:18
Speaker 1: to try to get their addresses, to try to meet
1:21
Speaker 1: up with them, to try to get them to send
1:23
Speaker 1: him naked photos or semi clothed photos. Yeah, he's a perv.
1:29
Speaker 1: Is he a killer? Was he actually communicating with Libby
1:36
Speaker 1: the day she's killed? That's pretty damning evidence. I Nancy Grace,
1:43
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:46
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation in series one eleven, The lawyer
1:50
Speaker 1: for twenty seven year old Keegan Kleine insists his client
1:55
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the two murders, but is
1:59
Speaker 1: there ever a coincidence a criminal law? First of all,
2:03
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to a bombshell interview,
2:06
Speaker 1: a portion from wt h R. This is him, Keegan
2:12
Speaker 1: Klein talking from behind bars. Listen. Kline is still in
2:18
Speaker 1: the Miami County jail on those unrelated charges, and now
2:21
Speaker 1: he's talking on camera for the first time acknowledging the
2:24
Speaker 1: Delphi investigation in a jailhouse interview with CNN. Why do
2:29
Speaker 1: you think investigators are putting so much focus on you
2:34
Speaker 1: right now? I have not a clue because they I
2:37
Speaker 1: think it's because they said I was the last person
2:40
Speaker 1: to talk to her, is what they've told me. And
2:43
Speaker 1: then Klein says investigators haven't threatened any charges against him
2:48
Speaker 1: for Abby and Libby's murders. And while he's admitted to cheating,
2:51
Speaker 1: or rather creating the Anthony Shott's profile to get inappropriate pictures,
2:56
Speaker 1: he says, that's where the crime ends. Where you ever
3:00
Speaker 1: trying to meet these girls in real life that you
3:03
Speaker 1: were talking to? Did you have anything to do with
3:07
Speaker 1: the murders of Abby or Libby, not at all. And
3:10
Speaker 1: I gave up my DNA a hair folical test. They've
3:13
Speaker 1: done everything they wanted me to. We reached out to
3:17
Speaker 1: State Police tonight to ask if they've collected DNA samples
3:21
Speaker 1: from Klein and if Kline's Anthony Shott's profile was the
3:25
Speaker 1: last to talk to Libby before the murders. They say
3:28
Speaker 1: they can't confirm either statement. We're going to go back
3:32
Speaker 1: to that interview in just for one moment, you are
3:34
Speaker 1: hearing Keegan Klein, who is his lawyer, letting him talk
3:40
Speaker 1: to any reporter or anybody behind bars. You were hearing
3:44
Speaker 1: that from w THR, that got it from CNN with
3:47
Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of what
3:49
Speaker 1: we know right now. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, host of
3:53
Speaker 1: Today with Doctor Wendy kcb Q and author of Red
3:57
Speaker 1: Flags on Amazon at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. Doctor
4:01
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalens to the Stars. You can find her
4:05
Speaker 1: at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Star of a hit
4:08
Speaker 1: new series on Netflix, Bling Empire. Cheryl McCollum, Founder director
4:12
Speaker 1: of the Coalcase Research Institute Years in the trenches fighting crime.
4:17
Speaker 1: You can find her at Coalcase Crimes dot org. Joe
4:20
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
4:25
Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and host of a brand
4:28
Speaker 1: new hit series on iHeart Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan.
4:32
Speaker 1: But first to Fox fifty nine reporter at Max Lewis.
4:36
Speaker 1: You can find him on insta at Max Lewis TV.
4:39
Speaker 1: Max Thaser being with us right now. Five years have
4:43
Speaker 1: passed and it seems like everybody is in the dark.
4:47
Speaker 1: The local police still have not released the full video
4:51
Speaker 1: or the full sound of who we believe is the killer,
4:55
Speaker 1: This guy, Keegan Klein. His place was searched even twenty seventeen,
5:01
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks after the girls were a murdered,
5:04
Speaker 1: but he wasn't arrested till twenty twenty. What's going on? Yeah,
5:08
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's a lot of frustration
5:11
Speaker 1: from you know, the entire public about because there is
5:14
Speaker 1: so just we don't have a lot of information. And
5:17
Speaker 1: Indiana State Police have been really tight lift especially in
5:20
Speaker 1: the past couple of years. They have almost had a
5:22
Speaker 1: complete lockdown of information. Yeah, has that really helped anything? Well,
5:28
Speaker 1: some would say probably not, because we're still here five
5:31
Speaker 1: years later, and the families you know who I just
5:34
Speaker 1: talked to, you know, within the past few weeks, they
5:36
Speaker 1: still don't have the answers that they're looking for and
5:39
Speaker 1: the ones that they really desperately want, you know, to you,
5:42
Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum. We hear that a hair sample has been requested.
5:47
Speaker 1: I find that really interesting because when I would want
5:50
Speaker 1: somebody's DNA to match up to sperm or whatever fluid
5:55
Speaker 1: or DNA I could get, I find that really interesting
6:01
Speaker 1: that they specifically ask for hair. What do you think, Cheryl?
6:04
Speaker 1: As a crime scene investor, I can tell you the
6:06
Speaker 1: only way I would ask for that is to cross
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Speaker 1: check it with a hair that I found it the scene.
6:11
Speaker 1: So it looks like to me, they're trying to put
6:13
Speaker 1: him at that crime scene, you know, to dotor Bethany Marshall,
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Speaker 1: please I set up the profile. If he all but
6:24
Speaker 1: admits that he's speaking to it's either Libby or Abby
6:29
Speaker 1: that day, and I think it was Libby. He admits
6:33
Speaker 1: by doing this setting up the profile, that he stole
6:36
Speaker 1: this male model. Now a police officer by the way,
6:39
Speaker 1: photo and created the Anthony underscore Shots profile to get
6:46
Speaker 1: naked photos from little girls. But if you look at it,
6:49
Speaker 1: apparently he was trying to meet up with him and
6:52
Speaker 1: get their home addresses too. Yeah, Nancy, it wasn't just
6:55
Speaker 1: getting photos of under each girls and over a hundred
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Speaker 1: of them. By the way, Skis was prolific in terms
7:02
Speaker 1: of his predating on young girls. But this is just
7:05
Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. What's underneath the water. Trying
7:09
Speaker 1: to get their home addresses. That tells me he wanted
7:12
Speaker 1: to stalk them. Meeting up with them, that means he
7:15
Speaker 1: wanted to have sex with them. We don't know everything
7:18
Speaker 1: that he communicated with them, but I would imagine he
7:21
Speaker 1: was also trying to dominate these girls, push them into
7:25
Speaker 1: subserviant role in his life, as we see so often
7:28
Speaker 1: with these predators. I mean, what do they do. They
7:31
Speaker 1: entice the girls online, then they start to get them
7:34
Speaker 1: to say terrible things about their parents, They alienate for
7:37
Speaker 1: them from the families. When the girl starts to feel
7:40
Speaker 1: sort of both pitolated by the admiration and then guilty
7:45
Speaker 1: for withdrawing from their parents, then the predator moves in
7:49
Speaker 1: and he really takes charge at that point. Look, he
7:52
Speaker 1: got these two little girls to go on a long
7:54
Speaker 1: walk and to meet him somewhere. That's how much control
7:58
Speaker 1: he had over their minds at this point. Now, according
8:01
Speaker 1: to him, he had nothing to do with it. But
8:03
Speaker 1: let's look at the facts. Isn't it true to you?
8:06
Speaker 1: Max Lewis, reporter Fox fifty nine in Indianapolis that his
8:10
Speaker 1: account Anthony Shots, which is again a fake photo. He
8:14
Speaker 1: looks nothing like this guy called looks like a Justin
8:18
Speaker 1: Bieber kind of look alike. He had photos on his
8:21
Speaker 1: account where he's driving expensive sports cars, pretending like he's
8:26
Speaker 1: very rich, very ripped, covered in tattoos. The account was
8:33
Speaker 1: created just six months before Liberty and Abby were killed,
8:37
Speaker 1: and we have reason to believe he was communicating with
8:41
Speaker 1: at least one of the girls on the day that
8:44
Speaker 1: they go missing. They're found dead the next day. And
8:47
Speaker 1: also I find it really really disturbing that before he
8:51
Speaker 1: would give one of his devices to police, they took
8:56
Speaker 1: a couple of phones in an iPad. Why does he
8:58
Speaker 1: need all these phones? He had one of them factory wiped,
9:03
Speaker 1: factory wiped before handing it over. That doesn't look good, Max, No,
9:11
Speaker 1: and you know, it's I mean, it begs a lot
9:13
Speaker 1: of questions. You know, what was he doing? You know,
9:15
Speaker 1: nobody has all those kind of phones. I mean when
9:18
Speaker 1: they raided his home in the weeks after the girls
9:21
Speaker 1: were murdered, you know, they carried out these bags of evidence,
9:24
Speaker 1: including all these phones, these iPads. You know, who needs
9:27
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff? What is that kind of stuff for?
9:30
Speaker 1: And then you know also, yeah, not turning in a
9:34
Speaker 1: phone that you know, I don't know if police missed
9:36
Speaker 1: one or what happened with that, but he ended up
9:38
Speaker 1: turning a phone in, you know, about a week after
9:40
Speaker 1: this raid and it had been factory reset. Well, you know,
9:43
Speaker 1: begs the question what was on that phone? You know,
9:45
Speaker 1: and why field the need to factory reset that is,
9:47
Speaker 1: there's some important evidence that was on that and you know,
9:51
Speaker 1: we'll see if INDIANFC police can get anything off of it.
9:53
Speaker 1: I don't know if they have crime stories with Nancy
10:06
Speaker 1: Grace to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics. I assume
10:12
Speaker 1: that you don't limit your forensic knowledge to blood and sperm.
10:16
Speaker 1: What about digital forensics? Once you do a factory wipe,
10:22
Speaker 1: what can cops get from that? Not much? Nancy and
10:25
Speaker 1: specifically you use the term wipe. There is a reason
10:28
Speaker 1: you say that, because it's cleared out at that point
10:30
Speaker 1: in tim. So unless there is some type of backup
10:34
Speaker 1: that the factory did on that, I don't think that
10:36
Speaker 1: there would be anything salvageable relative to the history on
10:39
Speaker 1: that phone and what they can and what they can collect.
10:42
Speaker 1: I was trying to wade through a lot of the
10:45
Speaker 1: information that we're getting to Max Lewis joining us Fox
10:48
Speaker 1: fifty nine. On some of those devices, there were several
10:54
Speaker 1: phones and at least one iPad there. On the iPhone
10:59
Speaker 1: five they got from this guy, he had uninstalled and
11:03
Speaker 1: deleted Snapchat, Insta and meet me. The browser history was
11:09
Speaker 1: deleted the morning of fib twenty seven, just before he
11:13
Speaker 1: handed the phone over to police. Much of the data
11:18
Speaker 1: from Facebook, Insta and Twitter had also been deleted. I mean, Max, please,
11:25
Speaker 1: cole you want to go look at my phone, have
11:27
Speaker 1: at it. You can way through all those recipes and
11:31
Speaker 1: the photos of the twins. I would be mad if
11:34
Speaker 1: you didn't. I'm not going to delete a single picture
11:38
Speaker 1: go crazy. But why did he have to delete stuff
11:41
Speaker 1: from Facebook, Insta, in Twitter? And how much do we
11:44
Speaker 1: know makes Lewis Fox fifty nine that he admits, he
11:48
Speaker 1: admits to setting up the account, he admits to speaking
11:53
Speaker 1: with or making contact with these young girls. Where does
11:56
Speaker 1: he draw the line murder? Yeah, and that's the question, right,
12:00
Speaker 1: I mean, he used He told police when they interviewed him,
12:02
Speaker 1: that he uses Anthony SHOT's account. All those pictures of
12:05
Speaker 1: that good looking guy that you were talking about that
12:07
Speaker 1: I didn't say he was good looking. Whoa hold on, Nelly?
12:11
Speaker 1: I said it was Justin Bieber. Justin Bieber look alike. Yeah, okay,
12:15
Speaker 1: well we'll go with that. So he told them that
12:18
Speaker 1: he used this to get these nude photos of young girls.
12:21
Speaker 1: And you know, if he's willing to do all bad,
12:24
Speaker 1: he knows, I mean, he knows that that's wrong. If
12:26
Speaker 1: he's willing to do that, what's to say that he's
12:28
Speaker 1: not willing to meet up with him. I find it's
12:30
Speaker 1: sort of hard to believe. I'm just telling him, Max,
12:33
Speaker 1: I'm you appreciate to the choir. You are preaching to
12:36
Speaker 1: the choir right now, go tell it to the unbelievers.
12:41
Speaker 1: You just can't tell me. Cheryl McCollum, don't make me
12:45
Speaker 1: tell my story. I would tell Gerards about mister Scorpion
12:48
Speaker 1: and mister Frog. Okay, but I will if I have
12:50
Speaker 1: to break it out, I will. You can't tell me
12:52
Speaker 1: that this guy was online with a fake account looking
12:57
Speaker 1: like Justin Bieber, pretending to be rich, trying to get girls,
13:01
Speaker 1: little girls addresses, me up with them, get them to
13:05
Speaker 1: strip down and send him new photos. Anne was talking
13:09
Speaker 1: to Libby, I think that day or within the previous
13:14
Speaker 1: forty eight hours, and then suddenly they go to this bridge.
13:19
Speaker 1: I just jump in, Cheryl, help me out here. Nancy.
13:23
Speaker 1: There's a little other aspect for me, and that is
13:26
Speaker 1: that when the girls went missing and subsequently were found murdered,
13:30
Speaker 1: he never came forward either. He never said, hey, look,
13:33
Speaker 1: I was talking to her about two o'clock, so I
13:36
Speaker 1: can give you a time reference of when something might
13:38
Speaker 1: have happened after that. So he wasn't helpful or anything.
13:42
Speaker 1: But do you really blame him for that? Though? Well, yeah,
13:44
Speaker 1: I blame him, but I'm not surprised to be a
13:46
Speaker 1: better way because if he came forward that they didn't
13:49
Speaker 1: have to admit him mean catfishing little girls for need photos.
13:52
Speaker 1: But it's still a factor, is all I'm saying. Because
13:54
Speaker 1: what you also have is the police were searching his
13:57
Speaker 1: house within eleven days. Well, that means they had probable
14:01
Speaker 1: calls to go there, so very quickly. They had their
14:05
Speaker 1: eyes on this guy for a considerable reason. And I
14:09
Speaker 1: believe it was what was in that phone. And I
14:12
Speaker 1: want to remind everybody we keep hearing Miami County, Miami County.
14:15
Speaker 1: It's not in Florida. It's in Ohio. Guys, I want
14:19
Speaker 1: you to hear more of this bombshell. Interview is from WTHR,
14:24
Speaker 1: who got it from CNN. Listen. The Shawn's account included
14:27
Speaker 1: photos of a male model. The Anthony Shawn's account included
14:30
Speaker 1: photos of a male model, and that man had no
14:33
Speaker 1: idea that his images were being used to catfish girls
14:36
Speaker 1: that were underage. Clin admitted that he created that fake
14:40
Speaker 1: online profile and then he used it to solicit inappropriate pictures.
14:44
Speaker 1: His now in the Miami County jail, being held on
14:47
Speaker 1: about thirty counts of child pornography unrelated to the Delphi case.
14:51
Speaker 1: Clin told CNN he had nothing to do with the
14:53
Speaker 1: murders of Abbey and Libby. He also told CNN the
14:57
Speaker 1: Delphi investigators told him that Anthony Shots was the last
15:00
Speaker 1: to communicate with Libby before her death, and so do
15:07
Speaker 1: you are you aware whether you may have talked to
15:11
Speaker 1: Libby on the thirteenth. That's what they said, and that's
15:15
Speaker 1: what the police telling that you did. Yeah, and do
15:21
Speaker 1: you have any recollection of that? Not at all? Have
15:27
Speaker 1: you told them a hundred times? I've done everything they
15:30
Speaker 1: wanted me to, and it's like they're just harassing me.
15:34
Speaker 1: Klein also told CNN he's given his DNA and a
15:37
Speaker 1: hair follical sample to investigators. Police have not named Cline
15:41
Speaker 1: as a suspect in the Delphi murders. Not named as
15:46
Speaker 1: a suspect. Let me repeat that in the murders. Now,
15:49
Speaker 1: did you hear that, Wendy Patrick, The police are harassing me?
15:54
Speaker 1: Wake up, man, You got at least thirty counts of
15:57
Speaker 1: child porn. Nobody's harassing you. We are protecting little girls
16:02
Speaker 1: from you. And he just blurted out for the world
16:05
Speaker 1: to hear that. The cops tell me I communicated with
16:08
Speaker 1: Libby the afternoon before she was dead. That night she
16:13
Speaker 1: went for the walk on FIB thirteen. She died on
16:17
Speaker 1: thirteen along with Abby. Your bodies are found FIB fourteen,
16:21
Speaker 1: and he says the cops tell him they have proof
16:25
Speaker 1: he was talking to one of the girls that afternoon,
16:29
Speaker 1: and we know his MO is just trying to meet
16:31
Speaker 1: up with these girls. Let me give this quote. I
16:33
Speaker 1: hope you're sitting down. You may need to lay down
16:36
Speaker 1: for this quote. I don't really know. I was just lonely,
16:39
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, just talking to people. I
16:41
Speaker 1: don't know why I did it, really just want to
16:44
Speaker 1: talk to people. Will go to the gas station, for
16:46
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, go get a hamburger at McDonald's and say, hi,
16:49
Speaker 1: does somebody walking in. Don't ask the girls for nude photos.
16:53
Speaker 1: But yet he says he is being harassed. It really
16:57
Speaker 1: goes to show you his mindset, doesn't it. So this
16:59
Speaker 1: is somebody that has done this for so long, I
17:02
Speaker 1: mean hundreds of admissions of photos and solicitations, because I
17:06
Speaker 1: remember the online solicitation is for offline contact. Now, of
17:11
Speaker 1: course his defense would be yes, but not murder. But
17:13
Speaker 1: you'll notice that his demeanor, the tenor of his voice
17:16
Speaker 1: on that call, in that interview, seemed to suggest the
17:20
Speaker 1: perceived normalcy of this kind of behavior, which is very problematic.
17:24
Speaker 1: You'll also know he doesn't deny, He'll know that he
17:27
Speaker 1: doesn't deny being the last person to talk to at
17:29
Speaker 1: least one of you. Yeah, hey, wait a minute, wait
17:31
Speaker 1: a minute, you're right. That's a really good point, Wendy Patrick.
17:35
Speaker 1: Did he deny it or did he say I don't
17:40
Speaker 1: remember Cheryl McCollum. He said he didn't remember talking to her.
17:47
Speaker 1: That's what that correct. Every people say I don't recollect.
17:52
Speaker 1: In other words, I'm not telling Sometimes I really do remember,
17:56
Speaker 1: but I think I would remember that or else. Why
17:58
Speaker 1: would he wipe all of his phone. He also said,
18:01
Speaker 1: they say that I was the last one to talk
18:04
Speaker 1: to them. They like it's the police's fault, as if
18:08
Speaker 1: he doesn't remember. Clearly, given the two little girls are
18:11
Speaker 1: murdered and he's in jail, he really the idea that
18:14
Speaker 1: they're harassing him. They say I was the last one
18:18
Speaker 1: to have contact. Not only does he externalize blame, but
18:22
Speaker 1: there's an arrogance to his tone of voice. I don't
18:25
Speaker 1: know if you've noticed that, as if he's being wronged
18:27
Speaker 1: by the police in society, rather than referring to these
18:31
Speaker 1: two little angels who are in the ground, saying two
18:34
Speaker 1: girls went missing, they're dead. I'm so sorry. How are
18:38
Speaker 1: their families. There's no remorse, no empathy towards the family members.
18:43
Speaker 1: It's really the whole interview is very self referential. It's
18:46
Speaker 1: all about him being wrong. Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
19:05
Speaker 1: Max Lewis joining me, Fox fifty nine joining us from Indianapolis. Max,
19:10
Speaker 1: I know you cover a varied, a wild spectrum of
19:15
Speaker 1: breaking news. I've been putting bad guys behind bars. God
19:19
Speaker 1: helped me for a really long time, and it's very
19:23
Speaker 1: common for them to say this. Listen, Max. Max Lewis
19:27
Speaker 1: Klein says he's not sure if the search warn't police
19:30
Speaker 1: served him with in twenty seventeen, just about a week
19:34
Speaker 1: or so after the girls were killed, was connected to
19:37
Speaker 1: the Delphi murders or child exploitation and child porn. Quote.
19:42
Speaker 1: I have no clue. I asked him, Hey, what is
19:45
Speaker 1: this about? Well, how can he pretend he has no
19:48
Speaker 1: idea what the search warn't or the arrest was about. Yeah,
19:52
Speaker 1: I sort of call bull on all this guy's stuff,
19:56
Speaker 1: you know, saying, oh, well that's what the police tell me.
19:58
Speaker 1: They tell me I was in contact. No, it was
20:00
Speaker 1: his account. He knows if he was in contact with somebody.
20:04
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess if he was in contact with
20:06
Speaker 1: Libby or Abbey, and you know, I guess it could
20:10
Speaker 1: be maybe somebody else was using this account to contact
20:12
Speaker 1: them or whatever. But I just think he's playing dumb
20:15
Speaker 1: all around, you know. I mean, I think he knows
20:17
Speaker 1: what's going on here, and maybe he realized it was
20:20
Speaker 1: a gravity and situation now, and it's just sort of
20:22
Speaker 1: trying to play dumb and say, well, I don't know
20:25
Speaker 1: that this warrant, I don't know if I was in
20:27
Speaker 1: contact with them all the stuff. But I find that
20:29
Speaker 1: really hard to please. Well, and it's really nasty gall baron,
20:32
Speaker 1: please wit. I can't believe he even asked go ahead.
20:35
Speaker 1: He was quoted when the police went to serve the
20:39
Speaker 1: thurchquarrant on his home. He was quoted as saying, I'm
20:42
Speaker 1: asked as soon as they came in, I should have
20:46
Speaker 1: knew what was up. Okay, get ready to meet me,
20:49
Speaker 1: Fox Nation. I should have left. That's what he said.
20:54
Speaker 1: Isn't that what he played that? Yes, that's exactly what
20:57
Speaker 1: he said. You know, Cheryl McCollum, you need to give
20:59
Speaker 1: a few opening and closing arguments because you quickly get
21:03
Speaker 1: over your let's see, delicate personality. That you've got where
21:08
Speaker 1: you can't say your cursework. Just so you know, I
21:11
Speaker 1: never ever, ever curse in front of the twins ever.
21:16
Speaker 1: But you have to say it like it is. You
21:20
Speaker 1: have to tell the jury and whoever is listening or
21:23
Speaker 1: watching right now exactly exactly what you know to be
21:27
Speaker 1: the truth. I agree with you one hundred percent. I
21:29
Speaker 1: didn't want to get you fine. When the cops come
21:32
Speaker 1: to his door, he says, I should have left now.
21:40
Speaker 1: Max Lewis joining me Fox fifty nine. Let me understand.
21:45
Speaker 1: Their bodies are found, they go missing, FIB thirteen, Their
21:48
Speaker 1: bodies are found, FIB fourteen, talking about a little thirteen
21:51
Speaker 1: and fourteen year old girl the age of my children, John,
21:54
Speaker 1: David and Lucy. Their bodies are found. When did he
21:59
Speaker 1: start to lading things off of his phones? Phones? Yeah,
22:03
Speaker 1: multiple phones, Max Lewis and iPad Well. I believe we
22:09
Speaker 1: don't know exactly when that happened, but we believe it
22:12
Speaker 1: happened after the search warrant was served, and then right
22:16
Speaker 1: after that and the search warrant was served. Get you know,
22:19
Speaker 1: get this with like a little more than a week
22:21
Speaker 1: after the girls murdered, and then in between that and
22:24
Speaker 1: these hidden phones that he had. Then he started deleting
22:26
Speaker 1: the information off of that. So you know, clearly he
22:30
Speaker 1: knew something was up. He was possibly in trouble. He said,
22:34
Speaker 1: as you said, Nancy, I won't say it again, but
22:36
Speaker 1: you know he knew that he was asked, and so
22:39
Speaker 1: that's when he started to do what he needed to do.
22:42
Speaker 1: Whether or not it's in relation to the case, I
22:43
Speaker 1: don't know, but we'll see. Well, you know, what, where
22:47
Speaker 1: are you right now, Max Lewis? I am in our
22:50
Speaker 1: station building here, Okay? Was it snowing outside when you
22:54
Speaker 1: went in? It was? No? Okay. So if you go
22:56
Speaker 1: outside and you see snow on the ground and you
22:59
Speaker 1: see a snow whout going by, could you reasonably deduct
23:03
Speaker 1: that it snowed while you were inside talking to me? I? Okay.
23:08
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is that Joe Scott Morgan, I
23:14
Speaker 1: don't have to have a video of what he did
23:19
Speaker 1: to note what he did. So I agree and Libby
23:24
Speaker 1: were killed on the thirteenth, and he suddenly starts cleaning
23:27
Speaker 1: off all of his devices. Yeah, and just as a refresher,
23:31
Speaker 1: So folks that are listening to this, remember this. This
23:35
Speaker 1: guy's in Peru, Indiana, Nancy. And that's that's where he
23:40
Speaker 1: was domiciled, where he lived, Nancy. Let me give you
23:43
Speaker 1: a number three seven thirty seven miles from Delphi, Nancy,
23:49
Speaker 1: thirty seven miles. Just keep that in mind. Here, this
23:53
Speaker 1: the proximity. Here. When we work crimes like this, we
23:57
Speaker 1: begin to think about individuals that had the potential to
24:01
Speaker 1: commit these kinds of crimes in relative proximity. Because when
24:05
Speaker 1: you put together a profile of somebody, you think about
24:07
Speaker 1: who has opportunity access, you know, all of those things
24:10
Speaker 1: that we kind of roam roam through in our minds
24:12
Speaker 1: as investigators. And for me, that number is going to
24:16
Speaker 1: stick with me when it comes to this guy. And
24:18
Speaker 1: one more thing about these people that engage in this
24:22
Speaker 1: kind of behavior, they never do it in a vacuum, Nancy.
24:27
Speaker 1: They network with one another. One of the things that
24:30
Speaker 1: they really enjoy is sharing this data and they'll either
24:34
Speaker 1: get on a dark web nowadays or sometimes sometimes these
24:38
Speaker 1: individuals will gather, if physically gather to swap images. And
24:42
Speaker 1: I really wonder, I really wonder if there are not
24:45
Speaker 1: others that might have privy to this information and to
24:49
Speaker 1: images like this, you know what, I wonder if he
24:52
Speaker 1: could be pained. This is feed for thought for everybody
24:56
Speaker 1: on the panel. If his devices could be pained to
25:00
Speaker 1: the location of the bridge the moment high bridge. I
25:04
Speaker 1: wonder if they've done that or if they lost all
25:07
Speaker 1: that data when the phones were when the devices were whipe.
25:11
Speaker 1: Just let me tell you. I keep saying phones and
25:14
Speaker 1: I stumble because we typically say phone. He had six devices, smartphones,
25:19
Speaker 1: a tablet and iPod touch, multiple phones. What were you
25:24
Speaker 1: going to say, Cheryl, that it was Wendy, I was
25:26
Speaker 1: going to be add to I was going to add
25:29
Speaker 1: to proximity. He also had predisposition. The predisposition was the
25:34
Speaker 1: meeting the girls online and being willing to travel that
25:38
Speaker 1: short thirty seven miles to meet up. But what the
25:41
Speaker 1: argument is going to be is kind of what you thought,
25:44
Speaker 1: what you heard him say in the interview, that that
25:45
Speaker 1: was where the interest stopped. In other words, predisposition for
25:48
Speaker 1: meeting young girls for sex doesn't then lead to murder.
25:52
Speaker 1: That is why the demeanor in that interview I thought
25:54
Speaker 1: was so important to look at, well, is this somebody
25:58
Speaker 1: that can get that angry, that would be capable of
26:00
Speaker 1: that kind of just despicable conduct. So disposition was everything
26:05
Speaker 1: you began by saying, what kind of lawyer would let
26:07
Speaker 1: a client give an interview like that. You can see
26:10
Speaker 1: how much we're already deducing just by the words he
26:13
Speaker 1: said in his tone of voice, I want to point
26:15
Speaker 1: out that, hey, don't really lose doctor Bethany. Okay, listen
26:21
Speaker 1: to this, Okay, let me verbalize this correctly. On many
26:25
Speaker 1: of the graphic sex images he got from little girls,
26:29
Speaker 1: nude photos of children, childhorn, the locations were not in
26:33
Speaker 1: his hometown that Joe Scott was pointing to. He's thirty
26:37
Speaker 1: seven miles away. He got images for little children from
26:41
Speaker 1: Hammond Royal Center, also in Indiana, Bunker Hill, Galveston, Indianapolis, Cocomo, Monterey,
26:49
Speaker 1: and Royal Center. So his m was to get photos
26:54
Speaker 1: from little girls in different areas. Now would he travel
26:59
Speaker 1: to meet Why not? It's just got pointed out, it's
27:02
Speaker 1: thirty seven miles away. What were you saying, Bethany. Well,
27:06
Speaker 1: Wendy was wondering, given his interview, if we could tell
27:09
Speaker 1: if he was the kind of person who would get
27:11
Speaker 1: angry and anger leading to homicide. But remember, there are
27:14
Speaker 1: many other reasons that sex predators kill. Maybe he wouldn't
27:18
Speaker 1: want to have been ideed by them. Remember Olibby took
27:21
Speaker 1: a Snapchat photo of somebody who looked remarkably like Kleine,
27:27
Speaker 1: or he could have been like a sado masochistic kind
27:30
Speaker 1: of person or sadist excuse me, where he wanted to
27:33
Speaker 1: inflict pain an injury in order to increase his sexual
27:37
Speaker 1: excitement excitement and then maybe when that went too far
27:41
Speaker 1: or he maamed them, or he had to dispose of
27:43
Speaker 1: them afterwards. But if the police were able to get
27:47
Speaker 1: a hold of the content of his Facebook, his Instagram, Twitter,
27:51
Speaker 1: all of that, I think that they will probably have
27:54
Speaker 1: a behavioral expert looking at what was the content of
27:59
Speaker 1: the sex will chat with these underage girls? Did it
28:03
Speaker 1: veer towards sadism? Did he ever talk about wanting to
28:07
Speaker 1: tie them up, to harm them, to hurt them, because
28:11
Speaker 1: that could be another reason why you can kill them
28:13
Speaker 1: and disposed of them. Listen to this. Speaking of the images,
28:17
Speaker 1: they were mostly children between age twelve and seventeen, adults
28:24
Speaker 1: involved in sex acts with children between the ages of
28:28
Speaker 1: three and eleven, Images of a drugs and a photo
28:33
Speaker 1: of Climb with the black handgun. So if you are
28:40
Speaker 1: not interested in sex with a child, why would you
28:44
Speaker 1: be soliciting photos and videos of sex with a child.
28:51
Speaker 1: You know that all saying to you, Cheryl, you know
28:55
Speaker 1: what you think about. It's what you are, it's what
28:58
Speaker 1: you do. I always tell the children, don't invite the
29:02
Speaker 1: devil for tea. He may stay for supper and end
29:07
Speaker 1: up camping out overnight. In your head, don't so if
29:13
Speaker 1: he's not interested in it, why is he soliciting it?
29:16
Speaker 1: And here's the thing that's going to go against the
29:17
Speaker 1: argument when people say, well, he was just trying to
29:19
Speaker 1: get photographs. No, he was asking for photographs and asking
29:24
Speaker 1: people to meet with him. And it just might be
29:28
Speaker 1: that finally somebody met him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
29:47
Speaker 1: a factory reaset that Joe Scott and I were talking
29:50
Speaker 1: about earlier essentially wipes all user data. Now investigators were
29:55
Speaker 1: able to get info on the device, including discussions about
29:59
Speaker 1: me eating people in Vegas and prostitution. So he apparently
30:04
Speaker 1: was willing to travel to satisfy his twisted desires. Let's
30:11
Speaker 1: take a listen to more of what we are now
30:14
Speaker 1: getting from wth R. This guy actually spoke to producers
30:21
Speaker 1: from behind bars. Don't you know his defense lawyer is
30:24
Speaker 1: doing a back flip hit it. Jack. Are you aware
30:28
Speaker 1: whether you may have talked to Libby on the thirteenth.
30:33
Speaker 1: That's what they said, and that's what the police told
30:35
Speaker 1: me that you did. Yeah, and do you have any
30:40
Speaker 1: recollection of that? Not at all? Have you told them
30:46
Speaker 1: a hundred times I've done everything they wanted me to,
30:49
Speaker 1: and it's like they're just harassing me. Oh back company,
30:53
Speaker 1: harassing again, you know, to use Sheryl McCollum. I have
30:57
Speaker 1: never seen a case where that's being handled this way.
31:04
Speaker 1: It's almost as if they are titillating the public with
31:07
Speaker 1: just a little bit of information. Not releasing more details
31:12
Speaker 1: has not helped them at all. What's the problem, Cheryl,
31:17
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like this either, Nancy, as you know,
31:20
Speaker 1: I mean, within that first week, we had the video
31:23
Speaker 1: in his voice within the first week, and then it
31:26
Speaker 1: wasn't until five months later we get the first composite,
31:32
Speaker 1: and then two years later we get a consecutive you know,
31:35
Speaker 1: a second composite that doesn't look anything like the first one,
31:38
Speaker 1: and then in December of twenty twenty one, now we
31:42
Speaker 1: have this Anthony underscore shots account. I mean, it's just
31:46
Speaker 1: been this piecemeal. But you know you're getting at the
31:50
Speaker 1: five year mark. I mean it might be time to
31:53
Speaker 1: release a little more. Well what do you think about that?
31:56
Speaker 1: Just Scott Morgan? Yeah, I think that that's I mean,
31:59
Speaker 1: what a point. And I know that it's you can say,
32:02
Speaker 1: what do you have to lose? You can lose the
32:03
Speaker 1: whole case. But really, at this point in time, we've
32:06
Speaker 1: been teased. I like the fact that you use that
32:08
Speaker 1: term with and I'll go back to this. Do you
32:11
Speaker 1: remember early on they said they being the authorities that
32:16
Speaker 1: they have DNA sample? Okay, so what exactly do you
32:20
Speaker 1: mean by that? I think that needs to be explored.
32:24
Speaker 1: What's the sourcing of the DNA? And when I say that,
32:26
Speaker 1: I'm talking about we've mentioned hair earlier. Is it semen?
32:30
Speaker 1: Is it blood? Is it merely touched DNA? And you know,
32:34
Speaker 1: if you have DNA, why is it that it's it's
32:38
Speaker 1: coming up, you know, with a big fat zero at
32:41
Speaker 1: this point in time, Why is it that you have
32:44
Speaker 1: this evidence rich environment which I can only assume it was.
32:49
Speaker 1: What's the what's the what's what's the inhibitor here? That's
32:53
Speaker 1: that's preventing you going forward with the physical evidence? I think,
32:57
Speaker 1: And why hasn't that happened. Has it been played into codist?
33:00
Speaker 1: I can only assume that it would have been to
33:02
Speaker 1: get a reference, you know, the National DNA database. And
33:06
Speaker 1: so I'm wondering if what the nature of the DNA is,
33:10
Speaker 1: if it is as substantial as we hope that it is,
33:14
Speaker 1: or is it contaminated or compromised in some way. I
33:18
Speaker 1: don't know. These are big questions that have to be answered. Nancy. Nancy,
33:21
Speaker 1: I'm a layperson, and when I read this, meaning that
33:25
Speaker 1: I've never been on a crime scene, I'm not an investigator,
33:28
Speaker 1: I'm not a detective. And when I read that they
33:30
Speaker 1: had held on to this much information for five years,
33:33
Speaker 1: I thought bubble formed above my head. That was like,
33:36
Speaker 1: do you really have anything substantial at all? I mean,
33:40
Speaker 1: are you bluffing? Are you hiding? Where is the reality
33:43
Speaker 1: of this investigation? I mean, Joe Scott Morgan just put
33:46
Speaker 1: it so much more beautifully and eloquently. But just from
33:48
Speaker 1: the public's perspective, it's either a tease or it's just
33:53
Speaker 1: like an empty gesture and there's nothing behind it at all. Guys,
33:57
Speaker 1: speaking of teasing the public as aimes exactly what the
34:01
Speaker 1: Indiana State Police is are doing. Take a listen to
34:04
Speaker 1: our c at D three. It's important that we don't
34:09
Speaker 1: show our hand. Quite frankly and very directly, we're not
34:13
Speaker 1: going to explain what we know about the killer. We're
34:17
Speaker 1: not going to do that. We're not going to explain
34:20
Speaker 1: some of the intricate details of the death of Abby
34:26
Speaker 1: and Libby. Unfortunately, one day we're going to have to.
34:30
Speaker 1: But then that's going to create a whole other issue
34:33
Speaker 1: with family and friends in the community and the like.
34:36
Speaker 1: So from an investigator standpoint, I'm not going to talk
34:38
Speaker 1: any more about it. To Dr Bethany Marshall, you were
34:42
Speaker 1: saying what well, I was saying that when they say
34:45
Speaker 1: they're not going to reveal to the public, it'll have
34:47
Speaker 1: to come out and court at some point. It could
34:51
Speaker 1: be a tease. But Nancy, maybe they have nothing at all.
34:53
Speaker 1: A further thought, meaning there is no evidence. Maybe they
34:57
Speaker 1: flugged it up as Joe Scott Morgan in much better
35:01
Speaker 1: language than I could have constructed. But here's another thought, Nancy,
35:05
Speaker 1: this guy was such a prolific offender. Where are all
35:10
Speaker 1: the other victims? Has anybody else come forward? I mean,
35:14
Speaker 1: the families in those communities must be terrified. Don't you
35:17
Speaker 1: think they've perhaps they've checked their daughter's social media accounts.
35:21
Speaker 1: I would be Nancy. I gotta do this. I do
35:24
Speaker 1: not think they're bluffing. I'll tell you what I think
35:27
Speaker 1: has happened. I think at first when this went down,
35:31
Speaker 1: they didn't know what to do with what they found
35:33
Speaker 1: because it was so out of the realm of anything
35:36
Speaker 1: they had ever seen. We had twenty year veterans telling us,
35:41
Speaker 1: this is the worst scene we've ever dealt with, this
35:44
Speaker 1: is the worst crime we've ever dealt with. And I
35:47
Speaker 1: believe them. So let me go back. If you look
35:50
Speaker 1: at the bridge, every single teenage girl, every single one,
35:55
Speaker 1: can tell you there was a guy somewhere at a
35:57
Speaker 1: Ballfield grocery store movie theater that made them feel weird,
36:01
Speaker 1: that they thought was kind of a pervert, right, But
36:04
Speaker 1: they didn't videotape them. Libby videotaped this guy because he
36:09
Speaker 1: did something overtly. He did something first in order for
36:13
Speaker 1: her to take that phone out and videotaped him from
36:16
Speaker 1: a distance. If you look at the video, his midsection,
36:20
Speaker 1: his belly button, for example, is headed east where he's
36:24
Speaker 1: on the west side of the bridge. It appears to me.
36:27
Speaker 1: He was in the middle of a turn. I believe
36:30
Speaker 1: he walked past them said or did something freaked her out.
36:34
Speaker 1: When he turned around is when she started videotaping. I
36:38
Speaker 1: don't know what is at that scene. I don't know
36:41
Speaker 1: if there's weird knots or drawings or cuts or burns
36:45
Speaker 1: or something with clothing. But I do know that holding
36:49
Speaker 1: it close to the vest is the smartest thing they
36:52
Speaker 1: can do, because when they get that soob in that room,
36:56
Speaker 1: he's going to slip up and say something that's never
36:58
Speaker 1: been released. Yeah, I mean, you have to play it
37:01
Speaker 1: close to the vest. I think at this point. Though.
37:05
Speaker 1: Counterpoint to that is that when you get at a
37:08
Speaker 1: micstand and you make a comment about we're not going
37:11
Speaker 1: to release this information, you have to have the expectation
37:14
Speaker 1: and the sophistication to understand these questions will continue to
37:17
Speaker 1: be asked over and over and over again. We're celebrating,
37:21
Speaker 1: Oh god, let me rephrase that, we're marking. We're marking
37:26
Speaker 1: the fifth anniversary. We can celebrate their lives, but this
37:30
Speaker 1: is horrible what has occurred, and this is we're five
37:35
Speaker 1: years down the road right now. And when it is
37:39
Speaker 1: stated that you have specific information you have specific investigative
37:45
Speaker 1: data that you come up with, the public will want
37:48
Speaker 1: to know, you know, well, why hasn't this lad somewhere?
37:52
Speaker 1: And I think that's a valid question. Nanswy Well. I
37:54
Speaker 1: don't believe that they need to release anything regarding the
37:58
Speaker 1: mode of the death or any details of the girl's desk,
38:02
Speaker 1: but anything that can lead to the identity of the
38:05
Speaker 1: perpetrator is an entirely different matter. Take a listen to
38:09
Speaker 1: our cut one anchor Juny Sue ABC seven. Nearly five
38:13
Speaker 1: years since thirteen year old Abby Williams and fourteen year
38:17
Speaker 1: old Libby German were murdered on this Indiana hiking trail,
38:20
Speaker 1: their killers still at large, and today Indiana State Police
38:24
Speaker 1: issuing a new warning to the culprit I resolved to
38:28
Speaker 1: catch him. Is as strong as it was day one.
38:32
Speaker 1: But the difference now between now and day one, as
38:34
Speaker 1: we know about you a lot about you. Today could
38:37
Speaker 1: be the day sleep well the girls were lasting. You're
38:43
Speaker 1: this bridge. In February of twenty seventeen, authorities a Libby
38:47
Speaker 1: recorded this image of the alleged killer on her iPhone,
38:51
Speaker 1: along with haunting audio of his voice moments before their murder,
38:56
Speaker 1: apparently telling them to go down the hill. If you
39:03
Speaker 1: knew Libby, she had her phone attached her hip all
39:05
Speaker 1: the time. Libby's grandparents believe the teenager knew something was
39:10
Speaker 1: right with a man they encountered, prompting her to record him.
39:13
Speaker 1: Something decides me to, says she was going to film
39:16
Speaker 1: that and come home and say, look, Granfa, I'll look
39:17
Speaker 1: at this guy who he was out there? Really weird.
39:21
Speaker 1: How does it help to issue a statement that says
39:26
Speaker 1: we know a lot about you. If you knew that much,
39:29
Speaker 1: then why not arrest him? And today could be the day?
39:34
Speaker 1: Sleep well? But there's been no arrest. So what's the
39:38
Speaker 1: thinking behind that kind of statement? What about it? Wendy Patrick,
39:44
Speaker 1: It sounds like they know a lot about the profile
39:46
Speaker 1: of who committed the murders. What it seems like is
39:49
Speaker 1: lacking as the tie between the profile they have and
39:52
Speaker 1: the actual suspect they're going to arrest. You know, I
39:55
Speaker 1: have even tried rape cases where you would expect there
39:58
Speaker 1: would be DNA everywhere but there wasn't, or forensic evidence
40:03
Speaker 1: you would expect would just be prolific at a crime scene,
40:06
Speaker 1: but it wasn't able to be tied to a particular
40:08
Speaker 1: suspect in the same way. They've released sketches that have
40:13
Speaker 1: been very different from each other. They're not photographed, and
40:15
Speaker 1: there are many people that folsefully look like sketches that
40:19
Speaker 1: have been released. So they seem to be struggling with
40:21
Speaker 1: that link. They've got the profile, they have the evidence
40:25
Speaker 1: that they just don't have that bridge to be able
40:28
Speaker 1: to charge, for example, the person we've been talking about
40:30
Speaker 1: who's in custody for the child porn. Yeah. Yeah, it's
40:32
Speaker 1: interesting that you're using that phraseology, Wendy Patrick. Can I
40:36
Speaker 1: agree they may be one step away missing one piece
40:41
Speaker 1: of evidence. And Cheryl McCollum had a great idea. If
40:44
Speaker 1: they haven't already done it, Indiana police, I'm sure will
40:50
Speaker 1: make plans to take that jailhouse interview and compare it
40:56
Speaker 1: to the known voice of the killer where he says
41:00
Speaker 1: down the hill, down the hill, and hopefully get a match.
41:05
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eleven where they virtually
41:09
Speaker 1: say that this is from WNDU. By February of twenty
41:13
Speaker 1: twenty one, police maintained they were just one puzzle piece
41:16
Speaker 1: away from an arrest. It is not a cold case.
41:20
Speaker 1: I've been adamant about that all along. It is not
41:23
Speaker 1: a cold case, so we still receive tips by way
41:26
Speaker 1: of email, our phone calls every day, and so new
41:30
Speaker 1: information still pours into our investigators. Those investigators moved to
41:34
Speaker 1: a new space in September of twenty twenty one where
41:37
Speaker 1: they could continue to work on tips. As the reward
41:39
Speaker 1: grows to three hundred and twenty five thousand dollars, and
41:42
Speaker 1: just when the public thought they weren't going to learn
41:44
Speaker 1: anything new about the killer, detectives are seeking information about
41:48
Speaker 1: the person who created the Anthony Shots profile. Investigators would
41:53
Speaker 1: like any individual who communicated me or attempted to meet
41:57
Speaker 1: the Anthony Shots profile to contact law for that. Request
42:01
Speaker 1: for help from Indiana State Police in December of twenty
42:04
Speaker 1: twenty one seeking information about a fake online account that
42:07
Speaker 1: went by the name of Anthony Underscore Shots the tip
42:10
Speaker 1: line seven six five eight two two thirty five thirty
42:14
Speaker 1: five Repeat seven six five eight two two thirty five
42:20
Speaker 1: thirty five. The reward is growing now at three hundred
42:24
Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand dollars. Nancy Grace Crumbs story signing
42:29
Speaker 1: off Goodbye friend,