Latest / The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois / Tikka Masala Is Delicious w/ Kaitlyn Croker

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Tikka Masala Is Delicious w/ Kaitlyn Croker · The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois

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  Hey, delishies, grab a plate and feast on the
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  delicious culture. I'm your host, John Francois.
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  Oh, God, we have quite a meal this week. We are
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  going to be talking with country music singer
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  and songwriter based out of Nashville right now,
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  Caitlin Crocker. Is that how you pronounce your
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  last name? Crocker. So close. Oh, I heard a radio
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  personality say Crocker. Okay, they kind of just
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  say it however they want to but as far as I know
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  it's pronounced croaker You know, the funny thing
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  is is that that was the first pronunciation that
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  came to my mind And then I watched the YouTube
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  video of you being interviewed by radio DJ and
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  then they said Crocker and I was like, okay,
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  so it must be Crocker Yeah, I kind of just answered
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  anything and everything at this point. Oh No,
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  you should answer to the correct pronunciation.
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  Don't do that yourself. Yeah. Yeah, you're right.
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  You're right. I am funny story was on a TV interview
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  a few... weeks ago in Tampa and I didn't want
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  to correct them. So they just kept saying, saying
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  Croker. But I think at the end I was like, my
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  name is Caitlin Croker. Everybody great to meet
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  y 'all. Oh my God. Wow. It's almost like when
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  people misspell my name and the usual ways that
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  they would misspell Jonathan, like they would
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  say J -O -H -N -A -T -H -A -N or T -H -O -N.
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  And at a certain point I get what you're saying.
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  It's like, all right, spell it however you want.
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  J -O -N -A -T -H -O -N. HAN is the correct spelling,
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  but I'm too tired. I've been dealing with this
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  for 34 years. Well, I'm so glad that you're here,
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  Caitlin. And before we get into your wonderful
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  background in country music, we try to get to
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  know our guests and have some icebreaker questions
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  to start off with. So first off, as we are a
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  pop culture and food -themed podcast, let's start
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  with the food side. What was a favorite meal
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  or the favorite meal that you've had this past
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  week? Ooh, this week. So my favorite cuisine,
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  which I just discovered last year is Indian.
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  So I'm going to say Tikki Masala is my favorite
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  all time. Anybody that knows me as of last year,
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  that's it. I love you, Caitlin. You and I are
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  going to be best friends because not only have
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  I been loving Indian lately, it got to a point
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  where I basically made my wife make Indian food
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  cause she's the cook out of the two of us. And
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  right. Yeah. So a meal that she's made a couple
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  of times is like, you know, rice and butter chicken,
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  and then she'll have like naan bread on the side.
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  Um, and I love her too. That's why I married
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  her. Yeah. Not to be clear. I didn't marry her
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  just because she cooks great Indian food, but
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  it's a, it's a plus. It is. It's a bonus. And,
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  um, It's funny because I went to an Indian restaurant
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  with a friend the other day, and what did I have?
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  I had chicken tikka masala. Of course, butter
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  chicken and chicken tikka masala are my two staples.
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  I've literally never had anything else. I should
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  venture outside of it, but they just they work
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  every time and I'm happy. Yeah. And I'm like
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  you, like I kind of want to try as many new adventurous
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  things as possible. But sometimes, especially
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  when you go into a restaurant and you're paying
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  God knows how much because it's more expensive
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  to eat these days. Like you kind of want something
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  familiar that you know and love. Yes, exactly.
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  I'm with you. Oh my God. Now, do you like what's
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  what's the spice? level of your tikka masala?
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  Okay, so I do medium. I started off with mild.
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  I wanted to be a little bit more daredevilish.
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  I have not been able to just like full send it
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  yet. But one of these days I'm going to, since
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  eating Indian food, I'm obsessed with spice.
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  I put like hot sauce on everything now. Oh god.
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  I'm working my way up. Yeah. My relationship
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  with hot sauce is like all over the place. Like
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  there could be a random moment in time where
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  I'm like, you know what, instead of ketchup,
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  let me put hot sauce on my scrambled eggs. Why
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  not? But for the most part, I'm more of a mild
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  guy. Like my tikka masala that I had recently
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  was on the mild side. And when I, when I tasted
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  my friend's mango chicken, uh, that had a medium
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  spice level quality, it was almost like, like
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  I had to like just cough up a lung or something
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  like that, because to go from mild. Yeah. Like
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  to go from mild. which is like literally just
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  regular tasting tomato sauce over my tikka masala
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  to the medium level with the mango chicken, which
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  is like, that could be some real spice difference.
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  Yeah, it's quite something. It's quite something.
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  But now, do you like regular naan bread or garlic
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  naan? Both. I just love garlic in general. So
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  I'm going to say I prefer that one. But if you
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  put regular naan in front of me, it'll be gone.
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  Like I will eat it. Yes. And especially when
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  you dip the naan in your chicken tikka masala,
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  whatever, butter chicken sauce. Oh my God. And
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  do you wash it down with the mango lassi? Yes.
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  Yes. Of course. I had a salt one, one time. Did
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  not like it, but the mango is amazing. I love
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  it. Oh God. And I know it's basically a mango
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  yogurt in a cup, but like still. I just don't
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  know what the Indians have done, but they have
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  really like A plus in terms of delicacy. Now,
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  is there like, how's the Indian cuisine in Nashville?
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  Is it pretty good? You know what? I've only ever
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  been to this one place and it's, it's um... I
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  think it's award -winning, I've been told. And
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  it's this small little place right off of my
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  exit. It's in a little log cabin. It's very,
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  very unassuming, but it's a 10 out of 10 every
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  single time. Right. What's the place's name called
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  so I can go there and eat it? Yeah, right? It's
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  called Poonjabi Daba. Oh, all right. That that
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  how do you spell that because that is difficult?
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  Should I just should I should I just like type
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  it on Google like pu and Indian restaurant Nashville
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  Twin though in you yeah. Yeah. Oh you found it.
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  You found a twin in me. Is that what you're saying?
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  Yes. Yes There's not too many twins out there
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  in the world where, like, you actually are not
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  related to each other, but you feel like you're
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  related to each other, and I think this is a
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  match made in heaven, so I'm... I agree. Yeah.
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  Yeah. We're going to be Indian food best friends
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  now. Yes. Yes. Let's go. Oh my God. All right.
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  So I told another guest that my favorite meal
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  of the week was like this chicken casserole,
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  this sort of chicken pea breaded crust casserole
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  that my wife made. But the Indian food that I
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  ate with my friend Craig was literally like last
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  Saturday and recording. We're recording this
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  not even a week later. So I'm going to say the
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  chicken tikka masala. That's going to be my food
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  too. At the risk of copying you. Yeah. It's just,
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  it's so good. You can't not say it. Yeah. Now,
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  okay. That's our favorite actual meal. How about
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  your favorite pop culture meal? Now, this is
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  a TV show, a movie, a piece of music, maybe a
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  live theater thing that you saw in Nashville,
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  drag show, whatever. Anything that you have consumed
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  that entertained you lately. Ooh, I'm gonna say
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  my favorite show is 1923. Oh, that's the Yellowstone
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  spin -off. Yeah. Yes. Oh, good. The music is
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  awesome. I think favorite musical I was just
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  singing a few days ago is Phantom of the Opera.
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  That one's a special place in my heart. Why?
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  Oh, my God. OK. I was telling my same friend
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  Craig when he appeared on my podcast about a
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  production of Phantom of the Opera that I saw
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  in Minneapolis like eight, nine years ago. Oh,
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  my God. Have you seen the show live before? I
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  saw my high school do it, a play, but not professional
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  Broadway, anything like that. But that's a dream
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  of mine. So I've never heard of that. I've always
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  perceived Phantom of the Opera as so grand that
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  no school will ever touch it. How did that high
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  school production turn out? Pretty good. They
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  hit all the notes. I felt it to my core. I think
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  they did well. Oh my god. Yeah. See a professional
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  production, if you can. I know that it's like
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  the legendary Broadway show in New York, it's
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  done, it's not there anymore, but maybe there's
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  like a regional production somewhere else. Could
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  be maybe, like Nashville has some good live theater
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  there, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I will
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  definitely keep my eye out because... Yes, the
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  songs are always on my head. I love seeing them.
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  They're just so fun. It's so good. Yeah. And
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  I don't know if the... Did your high school do
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  like the legendary opening scene with like the
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  chandelier coming down slowly? I don't know if
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  they could afford that in the budget of a high
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  school. Right? Yeah. I can't remember, to be
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  honest. I'm having trouble recalling. Oh, God.
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  Okay, go see a professional production of Phantom
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  of the Opera. It'll blow your mind. Yeah, and
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  I forget what the song is called, but the one
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  that's like... It's like the main song in the
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  whole play where it revolves around him being
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  all sentimental and melancholy about being a
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  phantom in love with this normal human woman.
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  Yes. Yeah, what is her name again? Okay, I'm
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  gonna I'll probably remember is like as soon
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  as this is finished This is your homework assignment
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  is to find two homework assignments Find out
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  the name of that Indian restaurant and go see
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  a professional production of Phantom of the Opera.
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  I got you. I got you It'll change your life.
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  It'll change your life at this point It might
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  be considered like the most basic of Broadway
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  musicals because it's been around for so long
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  But it's but it hits it exactly. It's a classic
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  it hits so well So as fan about the opera, is
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  that part of like how you wanted to get into
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  music? Did that have some influence in a way
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  in your singing and songwriting career? It did.
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  I was a musical theater kid at heart before pursuing
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  songwriting and eventually country music. So
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  I was, let's see, I've been in the Little Mermaid,
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  Aladdin, actually Little Mermaid twice. Aladdin,
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  um, and then a few like smaller, awesome, like
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  made up ones, I guess. But my love of musical
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  theater definitely sparked, um, the love and
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  passion for music and, you know, portraying emotion
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  through my songs. And so, okay. So it's, it's,
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  I would assume like, So the order is like, you
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  started from musical theater and then like there's
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  a certain, as you had mentioned, there's a certain
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  performance. There's a certain expression of
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  story that led into you pursuing country music.
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  So just, just take me to, to the beginning. So
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  was it like the very beginning was singing at
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  the house or singing at your church? Like where
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  did this music thing start for you? So going
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  way, way back to 2009. I was like four years
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  old, just always singing around the house. No,
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  no, no, no. You're fine to be four years old.
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  That's the year I graduated high school. So that's
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  why I'm just like, oh my God, you were four in
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  2009? Like what the heck? But okay, so four in
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  2009, you sung around the house. All right, go
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  ahead. Yeah, I sang around the house. My favorite
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  song was Tomorrow by Annie. And I remember my
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  parents just... being like, oh, that's not half
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  bad. Like, maybe we should just kind of see where
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  this goes. And so I'm just kind of singing throughout
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  my childhood. I start taking vocal lessons and
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  I started singing in church when I was around
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  10, 11, doing special music. And then I joined
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  the weekly worship team. And then I think my
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  last seventh and eighth grade, I started in musical
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  theater and then into high school. It hit high
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  school freshman year, and I was already in that
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  transition trying to figure out what I wanted
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  to do, who I wanted to be. I wanted to be an
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  airspace engineer test pilot for NASA on one
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  hand, and then I was like, I want to sing country
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  music. I wanted to, you know, try out this music
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  thing, pursue that. And so my sophomore year,
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  my family decided to up and moved to Nashville
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  during COVID. I had played all around the DC,
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  Maryland, Virginia area, and there was nothing
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  else I could really do career -wise in southern
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  Maryland. So, yeah, we moved as a family of six
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  to Nashville. The housing market was insane,
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  so we ended up buying an RV, moving into it,
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  and moving to Nashville, and it were... I lived
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  in that for about eight and a half months before
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  finding some property here in Nashville. So I
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  like to tell people I shared a bunk room with
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  my brothers for that long. There was one bathroom
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  for the entire family. It was a crazy experience,
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  but it was fun. We're very close knit family.
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  So it kind of just worked. And we've always joked
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  around that it's preparing us for tour life.
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  All right. I got questions. First of all, like
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  when you had mentioned that like you heard Tomorrow
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  by Annie playing in the house, you sung along
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  to it. Your parents were like, oh my God, this
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  is great. You have a wonderful voice. I don't
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  know much of a theater scene in Maryland. Like
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  what brought about Annie being played in the
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  house? Is it like, did you watch like a TV production
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  of Annie? Did you guys see a live theater performance
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  of Annie? And that, and that makes you love the
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  song. Like how did that theater connection come
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  about? It was my favorite movie. So it was all
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  always playing on the TV. I forgot. Yeah. Yes.
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  And I just saw this little girl on TV singing
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  her heart out. And I was like, well, I guess
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  I can do that around my house. Yeah. Just kind
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  of kept on with that. Yeah. And because you're
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  reminding me of, you know, you can let me know
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  if this comparison makes you uncomfortable, but
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  like it's a similar trajectory to Taylor Swift,
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  where she I think had grown up in Pennsylvania
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  and her parents and her were invested in her
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  career and they packed up and moved to Nashville.
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  So I guess what led to making that big decision?
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  Like what sold your parents on like, all right,
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  let's move to Nashville for your career. Was
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  it just, I don't know, they saw you performing,
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  they saw your dedication and you like sold them
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  like you. put this hard picture to them about
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  Nashville and they were convinced? Like, what
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  was that conversation like? Well, I feel like
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  I never had to convince my parents on my behalf,
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  because from the beginning, they were just a
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  team. They're still a part of every single thing
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  I do. On my 10th birthday, no, no, my 13th birthday,
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  we traveled up to New York to meet with a producer.
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  Freshman, nope. I'm trying to recall the years,
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  gosh. In middle school, sixth grade, I think,
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  I visited Nashville for the first time on spring
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  break. And I think they saw me fall in love with
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  the Nashville scene, but I think they fell in
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  love with it too. There's not much convincing.
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  In fact, I don't ever recall saying like, Hey,
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  we should all move together as a family It was
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  more so, you know, I might do this music thing
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  on my own when I'm out of the house But they
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  were like no we want to help you like let's let's
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  do this. We feel like we're supposed to be in
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  Nashville My two older brothers, so I have three
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  brothers My two older brothers were off at college.
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  My younger brother and I switched to homeschooling
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  and my dad had just retired or was retiring from
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  26 years in the military. And so it just seemed
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  like the perfect time. Like if not now, then
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  when? And again, we had all fallen in love with
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  Nashville before ever moving there just by visiting.
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  It kind of just happened so naturally. Like it's
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  crazy to think about. Like I don't even think
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  I live here. I have to remind myself that all
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  the time. So you moved to Nashville what year?
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  What age? I moved when I was 16. So four and
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  a half years ago. So I did the math based on
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  the fact that you said you were four in 2009.
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  So are you 21 right now? 20? 20? 20. I turned
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  21 in April. Okay. All right. How does that feel?
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  I mean, you know, are you excited about that
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  21st birthday coming up? I grew up like playing
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  in bars and stuff. And so I've seen a lot of
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  different personalities and just to be the complete
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  opposite of everybody. I was joking around with
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  my parents and I was like, maybe I'm just going
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  to drink like mocktails all day on my birthday.
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  Yeah, I forgot. I mean, I've heard of people
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  like yourself who are under 21 and you're a musician
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  and you're playing in places that serve alcohol
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  and there's that weird thing of like, Oh, well,
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  I can't like really engage in that. I can only
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  kind of perform and leave. So I, I guess I'm
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  curious as to like, once you turn 21, like, how
• 17:48
  does that change the sort of atmosphere of, of
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  where you're performing? Because a lot of it
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  is like bars and clubs and people want to have
• 17:56
  a drink. They want to catch you sing. They want
• 17:57
  to have a good time. So yeah, that's all. That's
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  all very interesting to me. So your first day
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  in Nashville, take me to that, like, were you
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  scared? Were you excited? Were you overwhelmed?
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  Because I kind of think back to, you know, when
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  I moved to a new place, and I've done this a
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  few times, the first day can just be like, what
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  is happening and I feel so weird and isolated
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  and lonely because I made this move by myself
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  and I don't know where to start and I got to
• 18:25
  kind of build up a network of friends and whatnot
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  from there. So what was that first day in Nashville
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  like? It was very scary. I remember just being
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  almost so excited but so sad because of leaving
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  everybody behind. I knew one person outside my
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  family. in Nashville, just the culture, the music,
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  the lifestyle, everything was a change for me.
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  And it was very intimidating. A lot of people
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  here in Nashville say that everybody comes here
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  from their small town thinking they're the greatest
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  thing, but being a great musician is just a prerequisite
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  to being in Nashville because everybody is so
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  talented. The pool of talent is just... insane.
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  So it was a big learning curve in seeing how
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  I could be myself, but still be lots of room
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  to grow. It was just, it was hard to come to
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  the realization that it's just, yeah, so much
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  talent everywhere. So like maybe you already
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  mentioned this, but did you already come in there
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  with a record executive connection? Were you
• 19:37
  guys starting from scratch and had to find a
• 19:41
  sort of deal or connection with a record company
• 19:43
  or a producer? Like how did all that start in
• 19:46
  terms of the networking of it all? Yeah, so a
• 19:48
  few weeks in I had a big meeting. with this gentleman
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  that was developing artists, and I was really
• 19:56
  excited about it. We ended up meeting with him
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  for about four hours and decided to not move
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  forward with him. But then fast forward a few
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  more months, I was signed to an independent label
• 20:07
  out of Alabama, ironically, and worked with them
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  for a few months, got to open for Shenandoah,
• 20:16
  Rhonda Vincent, and some other cool... acts.
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  But now I'm independent, which means I get to
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  have creative control over my music, the songs
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  I write, the songs I release, what shows I play,
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  that kind of thing. So, okay. And I guess I'm
• 20:39
  curious as to, like, what about talking to a
• 20:43
  producer that might want to sign you to their
• 20:45
  label? Like, what about them? Like, Do you say,
• 20:49
  okay, this doesn't feel right. This doesn't work
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  out. Does it tie back into what you're saying?
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  Like right now, the pros of being independent,
• 20:57
  which is like you have more creative control.
• 20:58
  You could own your publishing, like all that
• 21:01
  stuff. Like, was that sort of the vibe you were
• 21:03
  getting when you were talking to that first music
• 21:06
  connection that you had mentioned, where you
• 21:08
  just didn't feel like you were able to express
• 21:10
  yourself creatively, freely? Well, the thing
• 21:12
  that is kind of kept quiet, but in order to start
• 21:15
  an artist's career, It takes hundreds of thousands
• 21:21
  up to, you know, a million, two million dollars.
• 21:24
  So, you know, some people just don't have that
• 21:27
  in their back pocket. Some people do, but most
• 21:30
  don't. So, you know, everything in this industry
• 21:35
  requires money. And so you have to pay for especially
• 21:38
  artist development deals. A lot of that is just
• 21:41
  paying people insane amounts of money. I honestly
• 21:45
  don't think I was... ready to be developed at
• 21:50
  the rate that they wanted to because I valued
• 21:54
  still being a kid and growing in all areas, not
• 21:59
  just in music, but myself as a person and not
• 22:03
  wanting to miss out on certain aspects. But although
• 22:06
  I was homeschooled, so I did miss out on a lot
• 22:08
  of high school events and whatnot. But also a
• 22:13
  record label is really just one big loan. So
• 22:16
  a lot of people want record deals. But at the
• 22:20
  same time, are you going to be able to pay back
• 22:23
  hundreds of thousands of dollars that they have
• 22:25
  invested into you? So there's so many pros and
• 22:28
  cons. There's so many legalities underneath all
• 22:31
  of it. And it really just depends on who you're
• 22:36
  meeting with and how well you mesh with them.
• 22:40
  You know, if they see you for who you are, if
• 22:41
  they see you for who they think you are or who
• 22:44
  they think you will be. Yeah, there's just, there's
• 22:47
  a million different factors that goes into it.
• 22:50
  I wonder if an aspect of you wanting to go independent
• 22:52
  is the influence of how social media can... make
• 22:57
  someone from nothing to something in the music
• 23:00
  industry. You already know like the role that
• 23:03
  TikTok can play on. emerging artists, like someone
• 23:06
  can just decide, all right, I'm just going to
• 23:08
  play this song that I've been trying out that
• 23:10
  I've just written and it blows up on TikTok.
• 23:12
  All of a sudden they have a record deal. They're
• 23:14
  on the billboard charts. So I wonder if a part
• 23:16
  of that optimism or push or desire to be independent
• 23:20
  is maybe a knowledge of like, Oh, actually, like
• 23:24
  there is this thing called the internet where
• 23:26
  I can release my music out there for the global
• 23:30
  public to see. And if I work hard enough. if
• 23:34
  I release it and see and have enough people be
• 23:37
  aware of it, then eventually I may get what I'm
• 23:41
  looking for, whether it be a record deal or just
• 23:44
  a, I don't know, financially sustainable sort
• 23:48
  of successful internet, independent way of living,
• 23:51
  if that makes sense. Yeah. For sure. Well, it's
• 23:54
  never been a better time to be an independent
• 23:57
  artist than right now because yeah, it's, our
• 24:00
  music is so accessible. And at the same time,
• 24:03
  it's almost that much harder because the market
• 24:06
  is so flooded with all of these independent artists
• 24:09
  trying to do things. So again, lots more pros
• 24:13
  and cons. So my friend Craig that I mentioned,
• 24:17
  he is, he's a DJ. He's been in the music industry.
• 24:20
  Yeah. So he's been. He has been working with
• 24:24
  this, this wonderful 14 year old singer, but
• 24:28
  not like releasing any content. Like they've
• 24:32
  been working privately on her, on her vocals
• 24:35
  and, and ironing out a few songs here and there.
• 24:38
  Like, cause he, I mean, he's in his fifties.
• 24:40
  He comes from the music industry where it's like,
• 24:42
  all right, privately you start. And the clubs
• 24:46
  and all these other venues where not many people
• 24:48
  are going to see you because you want to take
• 24:51
  that opportunity to fail, make mistakes, figure
• 24:54
  out what your brand is. And his strategy is let's
• 24:58
  figure all the kinks and all this stuff out privately.
• 25:02
  And then once we have some wonderful polished
• 25:05
  songs, then we'll start rolling them out one
• 25:07
  after another in public. So yeah, I don't know.
• 25:09
  I guess, I guess I wonder if that's, uh, you
• 25:12
  know, in, in, in you. performing in, in, in live
• 25:15
  venues and spaces where you have that one -on
• 25:18
  -one interaction with the public say, you know,
• 25:20
  you're at a bar or whatever. I wonder if that
• 25:22
  comes to mind is just, okay, let me like use
• 25:25
  all these opportunities to just grow as an artist,
• 25:29
  maybe not. be focused so much on recording this
• 25:31
  for TikTok and getting like millions of views
• 25:33
  and I don't know. Does that ever come into mind
• 25:36
  when you're performing in person like that? Yes.
• 25:38
  No, that's exactly right. Every performance is
• 25:41
  an opportunity to fine -tune your craft. Yes,
• 25:46
  you've got it. That's how I see it at least.
• 25:49
  There's so many shows where there are a whole
• 25:53
  bunch of people, a big crowd and it just... You
• 25:56
  soak it all up and you're just taking all that
• 25:59
  energy and you just have so much energy and you're
• 26:02
  just giving this show your all. And then sometimes
• 26:04
  there's almost nobody out in the crowd and it's
• 26:06
  like, all right, are you going to still make
• 26:09
  the most of this? In my mind, yes. Every show
• 26:12
  you play is if you're playing in front of 1 ,000,
• 26:14
  10 ,000, 100 ,000 people because your show will
• 26:18
  just, when you have that in mind, you're going
• 26:20
  to put on the best performance you can. Every
• 26:23
  show is an opportunity to fine -tune. When you're
• 26:25
  performing live like that, I wonder, are there
• 26:28
  people that record you and then want to post
• 26:32
  it? And if so, are you sensitive about that?
• 26:34
  Because that's essentially another version of
• 26:37
  you. posting your content yourself. And maybe,
• 26:40
  I don't know, maybe you thought that you had
• 26:41
  a bad night or working some things out with that
• 26:44
  song or maybe not ready to release that song
• 26:46
  yet. So how do you feel about performing live
• 26:49
  in person, knowing that there's a possibility
• 26:52
  that the audience is going to have more control
• 26:54
  of like, releasing you to the public globally,
• 26:58
  maybe before you're even ready, you know? I don't,
• 27:01
  I don't really think about that too often. I
• 27:08
  appreciate that they do. I just feel like that
• 27:11
  says to me that they're in a moment they want
• 27:14
  to remember and that they want to capture. And
• 27:16
  I'm like, cool, sweet. There have been a few
• 27:18
  times where I've played my original music and
• 27:23
  people have said, hey, is this released? Can
• 27:25
  I find this? And I'm like, actually, no, it's
• 27:27
  not out in the world. And a few people have told
• 27:30
  me some really private stories about things that
• 27:33
  they've gone through with their families and
• 27:35
  how the song really spoke to them. And I'll say,
• 27:38
  you know what? I'll send you this. It's unreleased,
• 27:41
  but here's this. work tape or a demo or mix of
• 27:46
  this song that I want you to be able to listen
• 27:49
  to because it means so much to you because it
• 27:52
  means a lot to me that, you know, this song spoke
• 27:54
  to you. Who are the country musicians that you're
• 27:56
  listening to that you're loving right now? I
• 27:58
  love some Cody Johnson, Cameron Marlowe. I've
• 28:02
  always been a big fan of 90s country music, too,
• 28:05
  like Martina McFadden, Faith Hill. I grew up
• 28:08
  singing Carrie Underwood. I like Jason Aldean.
• 28:10
  I could just sit here all day long. You're born
• 28:13
  in 2005, right? Okay. Tell me how you get access
• 28:18
  to 90s country music. I mean, that's probably,
• 28:22
  it sounds like a stupid question. Obviously there's
• 28:24
  the internet. You could easily get access to
• 28:25
  it. But what I mean is like to someone who was
• 28:30
  born in... 2005, not the 90s. You didn't grow
• 28:35
  up, you weren't even existent. How does that
• 28:38
  connection to music before your time start? Is
• 28:41
  it like you overhear your parents listening to
• 28:43
  it and then you fall in love with it as well?
• 28:45
  Or maybe your parents or an older adult figure
• 28:47
  is recommending it to you? How do you get connection
• 28:51
  to that music from the way past? My parents introduced
• 28:54
  me to it. They also played a lot of 80s pop rock,
• 29:00
  which I love. And I also got a lot of people
• 29:05
  during live shows or friends or family saying,
• 29:07
  hey, you should learn this song or hey, I think
• 29:10
  you'd sound great if you did a country rendition
• 29:13
  of Sweet Child of Mine or whatever. So 90s country
• 29:19
  music was from my parents. But again, I'll get
• 29:21
  like I just got a message yesterday on Facebook
• 29:24
  of somebody saying there is a song from Shinedown
• 29:28
  they think I should cover. If people have me
• 29:32
  in mind, they'll send me some messages and I'll
• 29:35
  be like, oh, that's really cool. I wouldn't have
• 29:37
  known that. So thank you. And that was kind of
• 29:39
  another question that I have for you is like...
• 29:41
  Cause for example, I listened to a few of your
• 29:43
  songs on Spotify and you did a beautiful cover
• 29:46
  of Holy Night, the Christmas song of Holy Night.
• 29:50
  Yeah. Thank you so much. Loved it a lot. And
• 29:53
  I wonder like what goes into you deciding to
• 29:56
  do covers of all these very iconic songs. And
• 30:00
  I was wondering if there was a part of it where
• 30:02
  it's like, all right, well, people know the song.
• 30:06
  And there is a segment of people out there that
• 30:08
  are like, all right, I love this song and I'm
• 30:10
  open to hearing. covers of it. So maybe that
• 30:13
  is your way into getting more and more of an
• 30:15
  audience. So I wonder if there's some of that
• 30:18
  into your deciding to do covers or is it mostly
• 30:20
  just because fans suggested to you and you and
• 30:23
  you go for it. So that song in particular has
• 30:26
  always been my favorite Christmas song. And I
• 30:28
  grew up singing it every year at church for my
• 30:32
  church's Christmas service. So that one holds
• 30:34
  a very special place in my heart. And I always
• 30:37
  knew that if I had the opportunity to record
• 30:39
  a Christmas song, it would be only So that was
• 30:41
  the heart behind it. Okay. It's a great listen.
• 30:45
  I totally enjoy it. And of course, I also enjoy,
• 30:48
  you know, your latest single, Trouble I Chase.
• 30:51
  Can you talk to us about that song, what it's
• 30:54
  about, what inspired you to... You wrote it?
• 30:57
  Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about the process behind
• 31:00
  creating that song. So I was in a room with three
• 31:03
  other friends and we were co -writing, which
• 31:06
  means multiple people are in one room together
• 31:10
  and we're creating the song. We'll all get together
• 31:14
  and we'll start sharing ideas. Someone will have
• 31:17
  typically a guitar in hand or everybody will
• 31:19
  and we'll just start playing around saying, hey,
• 31:22
  I have this idea. Oh, what do you think about
• 31:24
  this melody? Maybe we can take it from this angle.
• 31:28
  Maybe we can add these lyrics, that kind of thing.
• 31:31
  So Trouble Like Chase, once we got on that track,
• 31:34
  it kind of just all fell out and... came together
• 31:38
  so beautifully. It was almost like the song wrote
• 31:40
  itself. And once we wrote it, we felt like we
• 31:45
  needed in the recording to capture this fun,
• 31:49
  high -energy summer song that you can listen
• 31:51
  to with the windows down. One of the first few
• 31:54
  days of spring, just that emotion, we wanted
• 31:58
  to capture all of that. And yeah, that's kind
• 32:02
  of how we just create it. It just came out of
• 32:04
  nowhere and it was so fun. It was so beautiful.
• 32:07
  I had the time of my life recording it and actually
• 32:10
  the guitarist who's playing on the track also
• 32:13
  played on Kenny Loggins Danger Zone. So you can
• 32:18
  hear some of that influence in there which I
• 32:20
  love. I've always said if I have the opportunity
• 32:23
  I want to release a cover of Danger Zone. My
• 32:26
  dad's a fighter pilot and that's always been
• 32:29
  one of my favorite songs. Is that cover out there?
• 32:33
  Is anything, anything stopping you from doing
• 32:35
  it? So I'll play it during live shows. I do have
• 32:38
  plans for other songs to come out first, but
• 32:41
  I don't have that one recorded yet, but it's,
• 32:44
  it's pretty high up on my list. I'm curious as
• 32:47
  to what your day to day, your work life balance
• 32:50
  is like. You're not in some sort of college homeschooling.
• 32:54
  I'm assuming you're done with school. Okay. You
• 32:56
  just told me that you came from a writing session.
• 32:59
  Were you writing songs before you came on here?
• 33:02
  Okay. Yeah. So what is an average day for you?
• 33:07
  That might sound silly because it might be all
• 33:10
  different depending on what live performance
• 33:13
  you have to go to. I wonder if there's a... There's
• 33:18
  a set schedule that you give yourself, like,
• 33:20
  all right, Caitlin, this is the time that I'm
• 33:21
  going to spend writing. This is the time that
• 33:23
  I'll spend live performing. Like, what is your
• 33:27
  day to day like? You know what? I was just talking
• 33:30
  to a writer friend this morning about this. I
• 33:35
  love routines and I try to have a routine and
• 33:39
  I get two days in and life's just... changes.
• 33:43
  It's crazy. Every single day is different, which
• 33:45
  is so exciting to me. Yesterday, I had the past
• 33:50
  few days, I've had meetings, I've been on a bunch
• 33:53
  of calls, had a bunch of emails to respond to.
• 33:56
  I'm leaving town tomorrow to play some shows
• 33:59
  in Chicago. Today, I'm writing. It's all just
• 34:03
  very, very crazy. I do try to prioritize, you
• 34:08
  know, working out in the morning. A lot of mornings,
• 34:11
  I'll wake up at 530 and I'll read my Bible for
• 34:14
  a few. I'll go to the gym. And then writing sessions
• 34:17
  in Nashville typically start around like 9, 10,
• 34:20
  11 o 'clock. So if I'm writing that day, in the
• 34:25
  morning, I'll go to that. And sometimes I'll
• 34:28
  have meetings afterwards. Sometimes I'll have
• 34:30
  shows here in Nashville. And then any leftover
• 34:35
  time, I try to get out and, you know, hang out
• 34:38
  with friends. Doesn't happen too often, but sometimes
• 34:40
  I'm lucky to have some fun time. But yeah, today
• 34:43
  I came to RCA. RCA is such a legendary historical
• 34:49
  studio. That's where I'm at now. This actually
• 34:52
  used to be Chet Atkins' office. I'm sorry, Chet
• 34:57
  Atkins is who? Is he a country singer? Yes. Yeah,
• 35:01
  there's some... Look at the records. I see some
• 35:06
  record label photos there. It looks like there's
• 35:09
  been a lot of legacy in that office. Yes, yes.
• 35:12
  I'm so honored to be here writing today. But
• 35:15
  yeah, this is just kind of what it's like. I
• 35:18
  was here for a meeting yesterday and then here
• 35:21
  for a write today. Okay, so I know you're an
• 35:25
  independent artist right now. Are you? I don't
• 35:27
  know how much you want to reveal of meeting with
• 35:29
  RCA, but is this meeting with RCA like you're
• 35:32
  trying to become affiliated with them or you're
• 35:35
  testing the waters to see if you want to become
• 35:37
  affiliated with them and not be so independent?
• 35:39
  Like what's that like? Well, I think every artist's
• 35:42
  dream is to record at Studio A. You have Dolly
• 35:48
  Parton, Chris Stapleton, like anybody you can
• 35:52
  imagine. They've recorded here. They've walked
• 35:55
  these halls. You can kind of just feel it. Yeah.
• 35:58
  But I'm actually here supporting Label 22. They
• 36:03
  have their office in the RCA building and they're
• 36:06
  an all veteran label. And the work that they're
• 36:10
  doing is just absolutely incredible in support
• 36:13
  of veterans in the music industry. Me being the
• 36:16
  daughter of a veteran, it means the world to
• 36:18
  me that they're kind of taking me under their
• 36:20
  wing and whatnot. So yeah, I would highly recommend
• 36:24
  checking out Label 22 and seeing how you can
• 36:27
  support them. They're some of the best people
• 36:28
  I know. You want the feeling of being able to
• 36:35
  record your music in studio a and maybe not necessarily
• 36:38
  like being signed with RCA It's like you're recording
• 36:41
  music there. Is that what I'm understanding?
• 36:42
  Well getting signed with RCA is You know pretty
• 36:46
  difficult, but um if if they did have an offer
• 36:49
  on the table I would be very excited about it.
• 36:52
  Of course there are some some future plans under
• 36:57
  wraps for the time being. But yeah, I'm just
• 37:00
  kind of soaking it all in being here. Can I ask,
• 37:08
  like you had mentioned, you tried to take some
• 37:10
  time to read your Bible. What exactly does that
• 37:18
  offer you? Because I don't know, I'm trying to
• 37:21
  liken it to like for me, like I have to try to
• 37:25
  get in my, I don't know, 10, 20 minutes of morning
• 37:27
  meditation before I go off and handle the day,
• 37:30
  my work day, because the day can become very
• 37:33
  crazy and busy and stressful. And you need to
• 37:36
  have like some peace of mind and perspective.
• 37:38
  So is that kind of what you look for when you
• 37:42
  go through the Bible is to just kind of gain
• 37:44
  a sort of, uh, sort of calm Zen perspective on,
• 37:48
  on, on the world or is there something else?
• 37:51
  Yeah, I just. Find it important to start my day
• 37:55
  off with that and just yeah kind of let that
• 37:58
  guide me throughout the day and I've I've just
• 38:01
  I've noticed I'm a lot more in tune with my beliefs
• 38:05
  and and everything when I am reading word as
• 38:08
  a part to Some on the road and traveling you
• 38:10
  just busy and like just caught up in life Like
• 38:13
  I I noticed I get a lot more stressed easily
• 38:16
  and I just things don't go according to my plan
• 38:20
  So yeah, just just recentering myself every morning
• 38:25
  just puts me in the right mindset. Do you have
• 38:29
  like any favorite verses that you go back to?
• 38:32
  Like just a verse that like really keeps you
• 38:34
  in touch with yourself that really kind of defines
• 38:37
  where you are in life? Like anything you go back
• 38:39
  to or is it like a different verse every day?
• 38:42
  Like how does that work? Well, I'll say a lot
• 38:45
  of I refer back to James a lot there's there's
• 38:50
  a lot of things in that book That's really relevant
• 38:52
  to my life right now. And I feel every time I
• 38:55
  read that book Specifically it really speaks
• 38:58
  to me and it's only a few chapters long which
• 39:02
  is nice In just a few chapters and yeah, it's
• 39:09
  it's really powerful but but but I've noticed
• 39:13
  you know, setting time aside to be in the Word
• 39:18
  helps me in all areas of my life, which I wouldn't
• 39:22
  have necessarily thought. But you know, it helps
• 39:25
  me make the right decisions, and be a better
• 39:27
  person, and be a better friend, and daughter,
• 39:30
  and musician. whatnot. And I like it to different
• 39:35
  things in my career like, Jesus was a servant
• 39:38
  to the people. I feel like I'm a servant to people
• 39:41
  that like my music because it's my job as an
• 39:44
  artist to listen to what people are saying and
• 39:48
  find how I can relate to that, write songs that
• 39:51
  are moving and meaningful to me and kind of give
• 39:54
  that back to the people. Just finding similarities
• 39:57
  like that, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:00
  No, no, I get what you're saying. I guess another
• 40:02
  question that was rolling around in my mind is
• 40:04
  like the role of gospel music in your life, because
• 40:06
  I know that some of our most famous, call them
• 40:09
  secular pop singers, you take Whitney Houston,
• 40:11
  for example, like they started from the church.
• 40:15
  They started singing those classic gospel songs
• 40:18
  as a way to get into the mainstream world of
• 40:20
  music. And I guess I kind of wonder like, where
• 40:23
  is that in your life? And if you ever had a thought
• 40:29
  of like, oh, let me like dive into country gospel
• 40:32
  or let me do like a completely gospel album.
• 40:34
  Like I just, I'm curious about that. If that
• 40:37
  ever played a role in your life or were you always
• 40:39
  drawn to, I guess you could call it secular country
• 40:42
  music. Yeah. Yeah. So I've always felt... most
• 40:48
  at home singing secular music with the hope and
• 40:53
  intention of providing the message of what everybody
• 41:00
  is singing about in gospel music and Christian
• 41:03
  music. Taking that and believing it to be true
• 41:07
  and putting it in a way that maybe people that
• 41:10
  don't believe that, we can still find commonalities
• 41:13
  between us and different things to relate to.
• 41:18
  So yeah, and Christianity is a really big part
• 41:23
  of country music, and it's a lot more acceptable
• 41:26
  on country music to sing about going to church
• 41:29
  and all those things. So I enjoy getting to write
• 41:32
  songs about blending the two together, because
• 41:35
  they're both me. Yeah, so I hope that answers
• 41:39
  your question. Yeah, I think it does. I think
• 41:41
  it does. Well, provided that we have no technical
• 41:44
  issues, I would love to play your song Trouble
• 41:46
  Like Chase after we get done with this conversation
• 41:49
  in the final version of this interview. I thank
• 41:52
  you so much for your time, Caitlin. This was
• 41:54
  great. And how can people find you? Give us all
• 41:58
  the socials. Give us your website. How can people
• 41:59
  keep in touch with your music? Well, first of
• 42:01
  all, thank you so much, John, for having me.
• 42:03
  It's been such a pleasure. You can find me on
• 42:08
  www .KatelynCroaker .com, my website. And then
• 42:12
  I'm Katelyn Croaker on all of the platforms and
• 42:16
  as well as all the streaming. platforms of social
• 42:20
  media, Caitlin Croker, Official, and then Caitlin
• 42:23
  Croker everywhere on Apple, Spotify, anywhere
• 42:26
  you listen to your music. Absolutely. And that's
• 42:28
  the same place where those of you listening and
• 42:30
  watching, you can catch The Delicious Culture,
• 42:32
  catch us on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, SiriusXM,
• 42:35
  Amazon, wherever you get your podcasts. If you
• 42:37
  love us on Spotify, give us a five star. And
• 42:40
  if you love us on Apple, give us a review. It
• 42:42
  really helps the algorithm. And if you have any
• 42:44
  questions, concerns, comments, feedback, anything
• 42:46
  in particular about this... conversation that
• 42:48
  I had with Caitlin, email TheDeliciousCulture
• 42:51
  at gmail .com. That is TheDeliciousCulture at
• 42:55
  gmail .com. And at The Delicious Culture is where
• 42:58
  you can find us on social media, Instagram, YouTube,
• 43:01
  TikTok, subscribe, comment, like, share at The
• 43:04
  Delicious Culture. You can follow me on TikTok
• 43:07
  at John François presents Caitlin Croker. Right?
• 43:14
  Yes, you got it. Somehow you make me think of
• 43:17
  Quaker Oatmeal. I don't know why. That's a first.
• 43:22
  That's so funny. Do you like oatmeal? Do you
• 43:24
  like Quaker Oatmeal? Yeah. There you go. Love
• 43:27
  it. Love it. All right, Caitlin, we are hopefully
• 43:31
  going to play your music after this. Let's hope
• 43:33
  that technology is on our side. And thank you.
• 43:39
  I hope to talk with you again and best of luck
• 43:41
  on your career. Thank you so much, John. I appreciate
• 43:43
  it. Looking forward to staying in touch. Absolutely.
• 43:45
  All right. For those of you listening and watching,
• 43:48
  let deliciousness ring.