Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 387 - So We Meet Again

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 387 - So We Meet Again · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Be bent from any sage's juice, tear up the true
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: down a rat from the junis the Mom, David Better
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: us being mister Foods in the.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Pure, when the sea.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: It's rainy nights, Ship.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: The lights Streak, result Sis Never Win, rides.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Spend of a basting you and the fuck the refree of.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: All to see nice And here we go. What's up? Everybody?
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: What's up? Got you? He's welcome into the Lone Goming
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Podcast is the Triple B and Joe be here with you.
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: Welcome back, Joe. How are you feeling, buddy?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I'm doing okay. You know, as some people know, I've
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: been dealing with some health issues. Nothing super serious, so
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: don't get worried. But I just want to thank a
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: couple of people. First of all, the members that have
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: reached out to me, chatted with me, phone called with me.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: To you have who has carried the show on your
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: nice broad big shoulders, I think that's three bees. And
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: to some of the guests, it was kind of like
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: a hybrid guest month with Matt doubt It, Doug of course,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and Bill Brown. So that's cool and yeah, all is well? Man?
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, what a journey this was this. You know,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: you go away for a week in a foreign country,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: you don't know the language, it's okay. In a touristy
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: or semi touristy area, you go away for five almost
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: six weeks. It's a mind trip. Man, it's weird. I
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: didn't meet my first American until three weeks into it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I have some good stories up and some good pictures.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll save that for members only. Well, we will
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: save that for members only, but I'm definitely happy to
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: be back. Spent you know, three and a half weeks
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: in kind of the mountains of the Amafi Coast and Marvello.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Then my aunt came to visit me, which was very
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: nice of her, and we watched USA Hockey when gold Metal, which.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: Was very cool.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Then went to Napoly, which is kind of like New
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: York City. It's kind of like a little well it's
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: a big city, but like a little legetto like, you know,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: not as nice. Stayed at the same hotel the Sopranos
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: did at season two when they visited Italy, and this
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: was unplanned. My aunt booked it before I knew, which
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I like, of course, got a kick out of, you know.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Then ended up raining up to Venice to meet the girlfriend.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: And you know that said he is also a mind
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: fuck with the fucking canals and you know, the water
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: and all this. It's like greenish tint. I don't know, man,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: this world is crazy world and this is like my
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: home country, you know. But I survived. I am back
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: better than ever allegedly. And yeah, man, it's wasn't exactly
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: what I expected it to be the trip, but it
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: was one for the books. I would say, an experience.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: It was definitely experience.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: All right. Joe, let's welcome in some folks south to west.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: It's the gold medal.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: He's been getting a lot of metals recently.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, mister p Saunders in with the silver. Well back Joe,
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: thank you, sir tiny bringing up the rear with the bronze.
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: Let's see we got Steve O up in here, he says,
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: he's in. Welcome in, Steve O. Mister John Nolan, no
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: more learned others on the show. Please, Well, look, it's
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: it's every once in a while, okay, you know, every
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: once in a while you gotta spice things up a
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: little bit, don't you worry, you know.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's good. Once in a while and you.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: Don't have to, Okay, I just want to see how
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: these guys think. Right makes for an interesting.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Show a couple of times a year. It's not a
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: big deal.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: Jack j T. Jack Taylor in the house, Oh the
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: d Dove, Derek Ward is Friday night. Let's go, Let's go,
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: let's go. He Dogs Paul Vine's PSV Odyssey Driving and listening. Good, good, good,
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: as long as you're not watching and listening while you're driving.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: Trey way back listening here in Northwest Louisiana aka Shreveport
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: Toops from down Under should have waited for Double B
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: to return and do a massive welcome back episode. Yeah, well, uh,
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: I don't know when Lin's over. I think it's not
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: until like the first or second April. So it's been
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: it had been a while.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, after Easter, which is the fifth of April.
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: Ship the Prodigal Sun returns Alpha sixty six, Big Mike.
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: Been a wow, sir, glad you were still six feet
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: above the grass lean We were worried about you, my friend,
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: Big Tone Tony Holman. Thank God it's Friday. You God
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: damn right, sir, Scott Taylor, Scott wearing my free ruby
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: teachert in honor of Joe's return.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Scott.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: I'm sure Ruby was thrilled to see Joe back. Yeah,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: she was, who's this motherfucker? Yeah, she was very confused.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: I get very attached to your girlfriend while you were gone. Yeah,
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: and my dad, Yeah, Asteroid coming, Welcome in, Welcome in night,
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: maryl on Elm Street.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: All right, wasn't last year? Last show? Friday the thirteenth,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I believe.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Friday the thirteenth is gonna row one in February,
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: one in March. Oh, Mike the library man made it
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: in Mike Austin and from Peach sister's kitchen is in
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: the house. She is so glad you're back, Joe.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Peaches, love you.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: Zendar up and the OUs Zendar. Hello outy all Hello,
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: Let's see who else we got, man, we got a
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: packed house in here. Sally there she is, Hello, Sally, Hey, Sally, Oh,
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: sending love Trey.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Ai Joe did look pretty good. I have to say
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: I was gonna shave, but I was like, I can't
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: because Ai Joe didn't shave.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, mm hmm. Paulinichi, yeah, hell ye, Paul Joline Joline
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: Joline Joline, Hello everybody. Derek Schwinderman, Hello, Robin Joe a
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: few Joe knows how to say his name correctly. M
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: James Smith up in the house, the man with the
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: average name aka Banksy Poll No, I'm joking. Uh, Timothy
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: Ryan makes it in mm hmm if the fucking comment
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: will show Robin Joey good to see the band back together.
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: There you go. Hm oh, speaking of the devil and
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: he shall appear. Matt doubted, No way, he's back. That's right,
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: Joe is back. So you missed a good show with
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: Matt Joe.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: I did, and I'm sorry because I I love Matt
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: and we hung out a bit at Lancer and uh,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to call my friend for sure.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: Morgan McKinley in that is that house? Newest member, Welcome in, Morgan,
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: what's up? Will gp ideal appreciate the diversity of TLG. Yes, yes, white, Black, Democrat,
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: Republican and Nutter conspiracy theorists all are welcome here in
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: the House of our Lord. Yes, um, I think oh shit.
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: Claud and and Udine slide in at the very last
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: minute here in some lone stars on the beach and
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: gust and that sounds like a damn good time to me, Claude.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: Hell yeah, so welcome in everybody, without further at year.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Do I still have that sound by here, Joe. Let's
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: get into a little bit about what we're talking about
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: here this evening, if you will, please, sir. Okay, So.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: We were recently sent as in recently being a month
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: or two ago, or maybe longer. Time has flown by
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: almost two hundred page document on James Herbert Martin, of
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: course getting back to our origins, if you will. And
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: we figured since it's been you know, we've touched on
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: him here and there in a couple of segments, but
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: it's been over three years, I think, rob since we've
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: done a show on him. We like to call him
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Marina's law forgotten babysitter because you know, you think of
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Ruth Page, George Mornsfield, et cetera. And we found a
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: little we're gonna do a little bit of a recap
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: on who he was, our initial finds on him and
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: his wife Wanda, and a couple of little tidbits of
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: things in this document that we found interesting. And yeah, yeah,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: that had a bad ass for sure. Uh So I
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: figured it would be an appropriate topic for my return,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: and we're going to kind of take a different angle
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: on it this time, because I believe the last show
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: we did rob it was more of a deep dive
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: on James Herbert Martin and his work history and you
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: know where he was and why his name is on
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: the ss May's Dan manifest and et cetera, et cetera.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: But tonight, I think we're going to just focus on
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: their personal relationship, which is what this document really focused on,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: and we can kind of figure out, if you know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: usually it's the guy that gets honey potted, right in theory,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: sometimes was Marina honey potted by James River Martin and
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: by extension one honey dicked, honey dipped, honey trapped, dick
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: honey dicky? Is that is that a thing?
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, it's three thing. Look it up.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Okay I didn't. I did not know this, And yeah,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I figured we'd take a little different angle on it
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: and kind of explore their relationship and through the a
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: little more than two months that they had together. Of course,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: first as a business manager meeting at the six Flags
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: in in DC where she was taken and Robert Marguerite
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: the night Oswalt was shot and killed, or maybe the
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: afternoon and see if we can kind of hash some
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: things out. What do you think about that rot?
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: All right, Joseph, let's do it, all.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Right, let's get the pp up power. Oh no, all right, sorry,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: it's okay. Yeah, yes, so let me just make sure, okay.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: So this is obviously a picture of James Sherbert Martin
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: right here, serious spooky looking dude escorting Marina into the
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Warren Commission hearings. I believe she did two days. They
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: flew there February second, and I believe they left on
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: the seventh or eighth, so they had like about a
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: week there. And there were times Jim was looking after
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: June Rachel, the youngest daughter of Lea. Marina was in
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: the care of James Herbert Martin's wife, which we'll get
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: into quick recap just for people that didn't catch our
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: episode three plus years ago. James Herbert Martin was Marina's
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: business manager and quote agent. He was Jim, as he
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: was commonly known, worked at the Six Flags in in Dallas,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: where the Secret Service took the Oswald family after inviting
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: the Oswald family to Thanksgiving dinner. He was generous enough
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: to offer Marina and her two infant daughters to stay
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: with his family in their house, along with Wanda and
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: their three kids, two fourteen twelve year old boys and
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: a six year old daughter. So that, obviously, as we
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: touched on the past, is a little suss because if
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: you have three kids in the house, it's kind of hectic,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: and then you're gonna invite to the alleged assassin of
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the president's wife and their two daughters into your house.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: It's created some drama, as we're about to see in
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: a little bit. And they moved into the Martin home
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: on November twenty ninth, nineteen sixty three, only five days
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: after Lee was murdered. This was one of our big finds. Initially,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: a couple of days after they moved in, on December third,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: there was a straight line installed to White House Communications
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Building number twenty five DC very sus and this was
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: handwritten on description of who Wanda and James Martin were
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: from the DPD Intelligence Unit. Then of course on the
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Die Circuit document which Rob is credited on the Maryfernal
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Foundation for Finding and ironically this version is much clearer
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Rob than the one we had previously showcased somehow the
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: research Industrial Complex got a contacted the archives and got
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: a very clear copy of this not your tempt yeah,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: not your typical wife. Rob help me out here with this.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Uh Frank explained m hm that the collection m hm,
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: I don't know, and the use of the something mm
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: hmm had been proceedingly uh RecA, I don't know, and
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: agreed to in the MHM. Who knows, Shoe is completely divorced,
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: divorced from this situation by herself as a wire intercept.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: I think you could be the case either way, remaining
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: the case from the everyday type something wife would something something,
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: something something in this instance.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: But wire intercept underlined is what we want to kind
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: of focus on because.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: You know, obviously you know there intercept is is something
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: unique you know to the CIA. It's it's monitoring of
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: of communications, namely electronic or telephonic. So basically, you know,
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: you have these wire intercepts. There could be housewives but
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: have nothing else to do that can monitor communications, translate
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: in real time things and you know, get the word out,
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: you know, if anything is being said, anything you know
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: special is being said. Generally there are targets to be
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: monitored by these wire intercepts. You know, it's not just
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: like you know, they're they're listening to uh, you know,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: Ethel and Lucy talk on the phone, you know about
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: nothing for an hour. But you know there are targets,
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: you know, highly sought after targets. You know, people's phones
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: are tapped and they're listening in and and trying to
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: figure out if there's anything being said that could be
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: used for intelligence purposes. And that's what they forwarded. They
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: find anything they forwarded, and it's something that you know,
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: as long as for instance, if they're monitoring Russia, you know,
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: somebody in Russia, you know, somebody I would obviously have
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: to know Russian to translate and pretty good, you know,
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: to understand dialects and to translate in real time and
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: stuff being said, that type of thing, or you know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: if it's German or French or whatever, you know, that
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: person would have to know that language. Unfortunately, we don't
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: know if Wanda knew any foreign languages. We know she
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: went to high school. We don't know if she went
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: to college before meeting James Herbert Martin, because if she did,
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: you know, we might be able to run down a
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: yearbook that would tell us you know, if she actually
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: was taking any foreign language classes or in some kind
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: of club or whatever, that would give us a clue.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, yeah, for sure. I mean, and you
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: have to take in the context. This is, you know,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: give her take a week after the assassination.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: Here, you're done, no, thank.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: You, John. You know they might still be trying to
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: tie this back to the comedies, right, whether it be
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Cuba or Russia. I mean, they really didn't know. But
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: if you put in to perspective what they were going
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: through kind of the peak of the Cold War, you
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: would kind of take these measures right.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: Coming in the night for Scott. Oh yeah, not sure.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: But Martin was fluent in the Russian tongue. Oh Lord,
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: have mercy. I heard of something about something today I
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: never heard of before. You ever heard of vabbing.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Vabbing? Yeah, I have not. Please enlighten me, sir.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: I hadn't either until today. Apparently ladies cover your ears,
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: but they might know what it is already. But apparently
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: it's when women will touch themselves down yonder and then
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: and then dab it on like perfume, so that they
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: smell like their natural pheromones. Interesting, Yeah, I thought so.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm still this old and learning stuff new
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: every dayabbing.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: We get an old bro oh man. All right, let's
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: uh get this back up as we go to the
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: third page of the Die Circuit document. All right, and
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: this is maybe the most interesting thing. It comes from
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Chief of Basse Berlin. And you have to remember there's
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: still the Berlin Wall at this point, right, so this
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: would be the most I guess you would say easterly
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: base or you know, closest to the the Red Wall
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: or whatever they called it, right, Engagement of spouse of
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: redacted but written over James Martin. And that does not
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: look like Wanda is Martin Martin's name?
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: But where that's his contract agent?
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so something, yeah, it does. It's exactly what
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: it says. Good, good job. The subject individual has been
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: engaged under oral contract for use under Project Dice Circuit.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: And if you remember Big Joe real quick yep. So
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: we run this by the Swing and his dick of
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: the mall, Bill Simpitz, because he knows a lot about
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: you know, these CIA cryptograms and things like that. Well,
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: the I is the prefix for Czechoslovakia, right, And it's
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: only found in one other document that we know.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Of mm hm.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: My argument to that to this being have anything to
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: do with Czechoslovakia. A. This is from chief of Base Berlin,
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: which is Germany. Okay, we know that the Martins were
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: not in Russia. Okay, they were likely somewhere in Europe.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: And I look at it like this, right, it's a
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: project designation kind of like MK ultra QK on shant
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: something like that, rather than a country designation. This is
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: a project. It is a project that they are undertaking, right,
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: like QK and SHANT.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: That was a project where they would interview returning business people,
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: you know important you know, business people who had been
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: traveling abroad and debrief them when they returned, you know,
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: to see if they could gather any intelligence. And this
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: project Die Circuit could have been a wire intercept project, okay,
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: with multiple stations around Europe aimed at you know, electronically
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: and telephonically monitoring targets. And I'll die on that hill.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: I don't think this has anything to do with Czechoslovakia.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: But pre continue.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and just to add on to that, Rob, when
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: we spoke to Larry Hancock about this and a lot
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: of detail, he said the only direct line to the
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: White House would have been a federal lease line circuit.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So if you were trying to kind of hide this
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: operation in a sense, why not give it some random prefix?
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And it vaguely alludes to a telephone line circuit
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: without saying telephone, right, Likely the project designation was the I.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: As a whole, this part of the this part of
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: the project is circuit D I circuit. There might have
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: been other components to the project that were you know,
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: it could have been like D I Dingleberry, you know,
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: or whatever that stood for something else within the project.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: But as a whole, you know, it's it's it's a D.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Circuit, yeah, or or even or even rob trying to
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: throw off people in terms of they're not supposed to
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: be operating domestically, right, So why not give it a
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: foreign prefix?
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: Well, this is foreign, Joe.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: No, I'm saying, I'm saying that's why you would give
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: it that? Me?
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: What do you mean?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm saying two.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, why are Intercept project if they're they're working abroad,
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: and we know the Martins could have technically been in Europe, right,
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: and under a project you don't just have one person
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: monitoring a phone line. Right, You're gonna have multiple people
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: monitoring multiple targets under an umbrella, and then you know,
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: reporting up. You see what I'm saying, They're not just
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: monitoring one person, right.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I'm saying by putting the Czechoslovakian prefix on it makes
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: it seem like they're not.
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: Stop saying Czechoslovakian prefix. Okay, the fucking thing. What's ever
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: to do with this document? Okay? Well, eye on that hill?
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Okay. The effective date of the oral contract is June fifteenth,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty four, and shall continue thereafter until the termination
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: of redacted tour of duty at what is it something
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: of base Bob Bob? Yeah, So this isn't an extension
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: of the contract in June of fifty four, sixty four,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, which means that there was a contract before
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: that which would have covered the time that Marina was
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: living in the Martin home.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: Well, where do you see that? You think subject sixty
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: four date is the extension?
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: The subject individual has been engaged under oral contract for
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: the use under Project Dive Circuit. The effect date of
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: the oral contract is June fifteenth, nineteen fifty four, and
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: shall continue thereafter. So they might be backdating it.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: Actually, well here here's my thought process on this. Okay.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: So nineteen sixty four, okay, so we know by this time,
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: the Warren Commission is still technically going on. They're still
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: questioning people. But for the Martins and Marina, life has
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: moved on at this point. And spoiler alert, James Herbert
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: Martin was banging Marina while they were in DC during
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: the time she's giving her Warren Commission stuff. Right, Yes,
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: and for whatever reason, was it Martin or Marina that
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: called Wanda and told her it was Marina.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: It was Marina that insisted that she called Wanda, but
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: both were on the phone.
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know, you have Wanda Martin, missus James
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Herbert Martin finding out that her husband is in love
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: with another woman and has cheated on her. And they
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: have three three with three or four kids together.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Three kids, Yeah, they have.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: Three kids together. So you know you might figure, okay,
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: this is in February, all right, So they go back,
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: Marina moves out of the house, gets her own, you know,
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: gets her own place, and life goes on. But for
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: the Martins, you got to figure, okay, they're gonna be arguing, right,
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: maybe maybe they talked and maybe they try to move
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: past it. But you know how these things go, Joe, Yeah,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: stuff always gets thrown up in your face. You know,
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: you can't be come home late from work or guess what,
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: you know, you're you're she'd know me still now, you know.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: So by June of sixty four, Wanda may likely have
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: had enough of James Herbert Martin's bullshit and is ready
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: to kind of distance herself from him, which it does
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: end up happening officially, at least that we know of later,
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: at least as it was nineteen sixty seven, they weren't together, right,
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: But I think the date there is supports our you know,
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: it's right in line with how we're thinking here about
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: this whole thing. But go ahead.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll get to a couple documents later that
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: might shed some more context on this. But the rest
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: is pretty much financial. Subject will be paid fifty a month.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: They'll issue a Form ten ninety nine to the spouse
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: for showing ode ebecs. I think that says as a
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: source of payment, as in, they're probably going through a
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: shell company right for the tax year nineteen sixty four.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Blah blah blah, salary did not exceed four hundred dollars,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: which is, you know, thousands of dollars. Subject individual report
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: income blah blah blah. No quarters and or substance provisions
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: are applicable in the case of subject individual. No operational
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: expenses will be ensured by subject individual. No commitments other
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: than those stated above have been made to the subject
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: signed what was it, Lola K Furlough, k Furlong, Yeah,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Field Contracting Officer. So this was one release that Rob
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: and I found right in the middle of our research
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three and those releases, so that's pretty interesting.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: And just to back up a second, to be a
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: little more clear about this timeline. You know, what we're
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: thinking is that somewhere while the oswalls are in Russia, right,
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: which is fifty nine to sixty two. Yeah, at some
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: point there, James Herbert Martin goes to work for a
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: credit card company for Hilton Hotels and Hillton Hotels has
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: places all over the world and they were the first
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: basically the first credit card out there. And you know,
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: to sell credit cards to customers, uh, you know, you
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: need a salesperson and likely would have been stationed you know,
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: Hilton at hotels and all the big swinging dick cities
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: in Europe and not just all over the world, but.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Great cover for travel.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah. And they're what you call assets in place, right,
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: they're there in case something happens. Maybe they're doing something else,
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: who knows, maybe they're maybe they're playing wiring, or maybe
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: she's playing wiring her step back then, who knows, while
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: she's his you know, housewife. But you know, as soon
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: as the Oswald's leave Russia, you know, we have a
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: James Herbert Martin and a party of five, which is
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: a wife and three kids returning on the same ship
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: that the Oswald's returned to America on, which to me
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: is sus all Right. I believe in coincidences sometimes, but
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: that's a little too much, okay. So it's likely they
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: realized that Oswald's were coming back to America. They wanted
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: somebody to follow them back to America and keep an
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: eye on them, report back type of thing. And it
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: just so happened that, you know, they were from the
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: same area as the as Lee Oswald's family, you know,
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: in Texas, around the Fort Worth Dallas area. So while
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: you might be thinking, boy, this might be a stretch,
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: but we'll get there. I promised. If it was just
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: one thing, you maybe, but you know, I think we
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: built a hell of a case on this a couple
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: of years ago, and you know we're painting it back
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: for you now.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: So Joe, go ahead, Okay, then of course we have
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna give a little background as we do
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: our little recap here on John Martin Thorne, who was
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: the lawyer in Texas who represented Maria Marina during her
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: war and commission testimony, who was referred to by none
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: other than James Sherbert Martin, and he has a little
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: bit of a suss history as well. He tried to
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: apply as a special agent to the FBI. He was
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: recommended unfavorable. He received some type of law degree SMU
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty one. And the reason he was one of
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: the reasons I guess he was denied was because a
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: person personal confidential informant advised on March nineteen fifty eight
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: that two males and two females had appeared at a
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: tourist court. And this is interesting wording here because we're
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: thinking six flags in and had taken about three reels
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: of film from a car into the tourist cabin. The
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: PCI believes that these persons were showing these films and
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: possibly making other films aka Horn. PCI said, this person,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: John Martin Thorn, comes to the tourist courts on average
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: of two or three times a week, not two or
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: three times a month or year, two or three times
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: a week.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Right, Big Bush, nineteen fifties porn.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to forward here to James Herbert Martin's
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: War Commission of testimony. How did they ask him? How
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: did you know John Martin Thorn? I had known him
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: from an association at the end. Had he ever acted
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: as your attorney? No? What was the nature of your
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: acquaintance with him? Just asking? Of course, he says that
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: did you discuss what, Marina the qualifications of this attorney know?
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Did you say anything about it to mister Gopodzipods, which
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: was the secret service agent that could speak Russian? That
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: was kind of detailed to their security detail. I like
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: I probably mentioned John had handled some movie work and
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: that he would probably know something about the area in
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: which we were talking. After you had made that suggestion
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: of mister Thorn as a lawyer, did you do anything
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: about it? I called him, so again, it kind of
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: lines up and and as we're going to kind of
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: get into was this possible, you know, blackmail operation just
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: in case Marina didn't buck like they wanted her to
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: and indict Lee like she ended up doing in the
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: War Commission. You gotta wonder, man, It's there's a lot here.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: There's a lot going on and the drama.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: Fast forward to fast forward to February nineteen sixty four
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: when they're actually banging at the Waldorf in DC. It's
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: not just James Herbert Martin Thorn is right there too,
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: Like as soon as the as soon as the Secret
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: Service pulled up, pulled up to ten stakes and left,
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: they both moved into the room. If you know what
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: I'm saying, Yes, I get a little black Thorne pulls
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: out his whole movie camera and bing, bang boom. Instantly
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: you've got blackmail, Yes.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: And Rob, I don't think much has changed since if
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: you think about Epstein as.
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: Such, the first Epstein.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: So this is a document I don't think we've read.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: And this is February nineteenth, So this is about a
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: week after Marina gets back to Dallas from DC. She's
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: giving the FBI a statement about the details of what
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: happened in this whole quagmire type of thing. I'm Marine
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Oswald get the following statement voluntary statement to Bugislav and Hepman,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: whom I known to be special agents of the FBI, Dallas,
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Texas on about November twenty fifth, sixty three, that would
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: be that Monday, while I was residing at the end
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: of the six Flags, Arlington. And sorry for the red here.
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: This is not my red.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: This is I guess, an attempt at redacting under the
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: security of the US Secret Service. I was told by
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: one of the Secret Service agents that James Herbert Martin,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: who I know as Jim Martin, had invited me and
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: my two daughters to reside at his home as guests.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: I was invited to the Martin home for Thanksgiving dinner,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: and I accepted this invitation. I had seen Jim Martin
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: at the time at six Flags, and I first thought
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: he had something to do with cleaning up the room
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: about two weeks after I had moved, and she got
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: that wrong about a week after but a little excuse me, sorry, why.
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: Do you making my panties?
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I was told by special Asian capas US Secret Service
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: that Martin had advised that I needed an attorney. So
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: the Secret Service is kind of coordinating this, you know,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: which is interesting and especially when you consider they're abrupt.
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: Well I think they're you see, a special agent USC
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: Service said that Martin had advised that I needed an attorney.
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: So they're just basically telling Marina what Martin is telling them.
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: So you know, he's orchestrating and making no bones about it.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: He's just running basically running it by the Secret Service first,
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: and you know, kind of interjecting some ideas into the
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: equation that might sound good that you know, Marina Proud
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: probably should really have a lawyer. I know a guy
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: you know type of thing.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a good friend named Thorn or John Martin Thorn.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: We went over him, was an attorney. At the same time,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Gapods who speaks Russian, told me for Martin, I needed
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: a business manager.
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: Too, So.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: They were a little doing a little bit of coordination
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: or referring, maybe that's a better word.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: She's got a lot of money coming in, she's got
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: a lot of offers coming in for books, movie rights,
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: you know, all kinds of interview requests, all this. You know,
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: she she didn't need a business manager. Unfortunately for her,
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: this was the wrong.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was the skufusa. I suggested that one
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: of my Russian speaking friends in Dallas would be a
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: good business man manager. Martin asked through gapods if it
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: would be agreeable if he served as my business manager,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: and I said that it would be okay. I had
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: this is Marina. I had not requested Martin to be
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: my manager because I thought he was working at a
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: steady job and would not have the time.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: Going.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: This is a long document and statement by her, so
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: this is a clipping different statements, the relevant ones. Mister
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Martin and his wife Wanda went to a New Year's
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Eve party and returned about one am January first, sixty
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: four the present.
• 46:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he was drunk as fuck.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: In the presence of Wanda. Martin asked me if he
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: would give me a New Year's kiss, and I refused.
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: Later on that date, watch this, I'm going to kiss
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: the rush of girl. Hey, come here, Marina, your big
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: old We kiss well.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Later on that date, which would have been that morning
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: of January first sixty four, Martin caught me in the
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: hallway when I went to attend to one of my
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: children and told me he loved me and then.
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: Kissed me and grabbed Oh I'm sorry, go ahead, I
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: hope uh your.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: He grabbed her, grabbed her brother. You know what about Saturday?
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: About Saturday, January fourth, Jim invited to have dinner with
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: him at La Tunisa restaurant in Dallas, and I accepted.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: I guess that's Mexican. He explained to his wife that
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I needed to relax. Well, you don't think it's Mexican.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: I think more Mediterranean La Tunisia.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough. We went alone and sat at a
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: booth along the restaurant. Two secret Service agents sat at
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: a table nearby. Like we mentioned, they did have a
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: protective detail following them all around. We had shrimp, cocktail,
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: lobster salad, and very good wine. Again specifics, a very good,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: expensive meal.
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: At this restaurant, he professed his love for me again.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: And he kept doing this throughout January, and we're going
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: to get into some of their later interactions. Shortly, I
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: told missus Martin that I would like to move out
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: because I felt myself a burden, which sounds like Marina.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Both Jim Martin and Wanda Martin came into me, came
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: to me and asked me, asked me to please stay,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: So Rob I'm gonna stop here. Wanda Martin is already
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: kind of sussed about Jim's love for Marina. Why would
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: she ask him to stay hurt to stay Marina.
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: It would seem to me that again, if you're looking
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: at this through a conspiracy lens, and that the Martins
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: were told to get close to Marina, not just on
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: a boat this time following him back from Europe. But
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: now that this incident has happened in Dallas, whatever agency
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: CIA would want to know exactly what the hell is
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: going on? What does Marina know? You know, did Lee
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: possibly tell her anything? You know, if if Lee was
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: a false defector, if you will.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: Walk Walker's shooting as well, well.
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: I don't think the CIA was worried about that very much.
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: But you know, I'm saying if he was doing something
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: at the behest of the CIA, you know, such as
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: being a false defector and reporting back to them and YadA, YadA, YadA,
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: that they would not want their secrets divulged. And again,
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: when you have a Russian woman coming back to the
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: United States in the middle of the Cold War and
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: her husband ends up shooting and killing the president allegedly. Uh,
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: you know, you're in a You're in a bit of
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: a pickle at that point. You know, everybody wants to
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: know what really is going on here, Like the official
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: story for the public is one thing, but trust me,
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: behind the scenes, the FBI is shopping bricks, the CIA
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: shopping bricks, the Dallas Police are shopping bricks, the Secret
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: Services shipping bricks. Mm hmm. And of course you want
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: to control information, yep. And you know, very quickly they
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: figure that they're doing this warrant commission thing. The they're
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: gonna want Marina to testify to certain things. And if
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: you have her over a barrel figuratively, uh, and you
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: can control what she says. You know, it doesn't have
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: to be threats. Well, we'll just send you back to
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: Russia and keep your kids here. We'll just you know whatever,
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: you know, it could be more than that, you know, right, Hey,
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: we got this movie where you're where you're taking taking
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: two and looking like you you know, you're skewer it
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: on a spit. But who knows? Who knows?
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Right, there's there's a lot. I agree with you, there's
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: a lot going on behind the scenes here. Whatever happened there.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: You know, I think we can agree that. You know,
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: if if if the Martins were working at the behest
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: of somebody telling them what to do, it was the CIA,
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: given everything else to they're involved in, you know, and
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: their proximity to the Oswalds at certain times, then you know,
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: we'd have to say, to see, I really wants to
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: keep an eye on Marina and what she's doing and
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: singing and all of that. But Martin's kind of going
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: off the reservation here. I mean, I don't know, I
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: don't know if he's uh, you know, it's told to
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: get close to Marina and you know, or if he
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: really wants to bang her like and and of course
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: this behavior by Wanda that we're talking about here, I'm
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: sure she's not having fun and all this type of thing.
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: But you know, back in the back in the early sixties,
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: you know, marriages were different, life was different. Women put
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: up with a lot more of ship back then than
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: they had to. And if you know, if she kept
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: being convinced that, look, we're doing this for the government, YadA, YadA, YadA,
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: this is for the good of the country. Just you know,
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: I gotta do this, babe. I got it, you know, hey, sorry,
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: you know, I need the strokes to check down. It is,
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: you know, it's for the good of the country. It's
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: you know, just a little bit longer, you know, a
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: little bit longer.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: So she called me acquiesces and here we are, mm hmm. Yeah.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: So he's Martin told me it was better to reside
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: at his house because there he could see me every day.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: He said, if I moved and refused, I think it
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: was something we're elving after that he wouldn't be able
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: to see her again, something like that.
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: When the previous In that previous slide too, if you
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: go back, Joe h it says, you know, Jim accused
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: Wanda of doing something to make me want to move.
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: I decided to stay, so it's not to further aggrivate
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: the situation. So because there's both Jim and Martin and
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: Wanda came to me and asked me to stay, and
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: Jim accused Wanda of doing something to make me want
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: to move, like maybe Wanda was running her mouth, you know,
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: like you keep your tongue out of my husband's mouth
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: or whatever whatever the case may be, of being a
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: harlot or a whoor, whatever but anyway, after all that,
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: she decided to stay.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: So yeah, go ahead, okay. Sometimes during the period of
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: my testimony in Washington, Secret Service agent Leon Gapods told
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: me there, sorry, the font is horrible. There were rumors
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: that Martin loved me. He said, these rumors might be
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: detrimental to me, that it might lead to my deportation
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: from this country. So now you're wondering, like, what the
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: hell are the Secret Service agents doing? Not to mention
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: they you know, see surveillance and let the Martins move
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: in next door to her hotel room after her testimony.
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: It's not definitely not a good look after your husband
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: was just killed and allegedly just murdered the president, that
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: you're you know, you're banging the first dude that comes along,
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: you know, on a shiny black horse. Uh. You know,
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: it's not enough to say, okay, just because of the
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: whole Oswald situation, we're going to deport your ass. But
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: now you're you're banging a married dude, and that's that's
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: a no no, and it's not a good look for
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: you either, So right.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Martin replied that he had friends and if it
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: came to a matter of deportation, he could arrange fictitious
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: which would for stall deportation. Interesting what friends were those?
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Martin assured me that no one would know of our intimacies.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: On Friday, February seventh, sixty four, about noon, the Secret
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Service ceased the surveillance of me. Marina, Martin and Thorn
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: moved into the room which the Secret Service had occupied,
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: which was next to Marina's room at the Willard Hotel
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: about four or five pm the same day, Again kind
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: of some specific details here. On Friday, Jim and I
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: went out to eat and thereafter we walked around through
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: the stores. Let's go shopping. Thorn had taken a picture
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: of me earlier while I was roasting on the couch
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: in my room or resting resting I'm sorry, AKA taking
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: a little nap, which I can agree with. I take
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: a lot of naps. He had put his coat on
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: the couch and his hat, a gin bottle and a
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: glass on the table nearby as props. Thorn took this
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: picture with a polaroid camera. He stated he did this
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: for a joke. Thorn kept the picture.
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: That's not creepy.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: No, And again, when you go back to the FBI
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: documents from years before saying he's making movies and pictures
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: and whatever reels of film. It it's sus like you
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: can't get more soles than this.
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: What was she wearing at the time, If anything, she's
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: just resting on the couch, you know. I mean it's
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: not like she's probably fully closed or anything.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: No, she's probably like part like like pajama ish, like
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: maybe a T shirt or something. I don't know. I
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: don't think she's like naked, but who knows. I mean
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: I'd love to see the picture, not in a creepy way, but.
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: If you're put in props with like gin and a
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: bottle and glass and it's not a good look, you.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Know, right, well, well that's my whole point. Like if
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: if and I guess her warrant commissioned testimony was done
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: at the time, but if anything came up after, you
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: could say, or there was any pushback on it, you
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: could say, look at her, she was drunk, you know,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know. The next day, Monday, I was taken
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: to the doctor by Veda. This is when she's back
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Robert Oswalt's wife. And we stopped by the Martin house
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: where I picked up my clothes. Martin will not there.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: But while I was there, he called sus and I
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: talked to him on the telephone. I told him he
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: and I and Wanda should get together to talk about
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: the whole affair over and his wife should know the
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: whole truth. He agreed to come to Robert's house on
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: Tuesday the next day, Rob, do you think he showed up?
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: Nope?
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: Correct, Martin did not show up at Robert Oswald's house
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: on Tuesday, February eleven sixty four. That evening, I called
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Martin on the telephone. His wife was on the extension telephone,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: so they're both on the phone essentially, and we had
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: a three way conversation. I told Martin that I was
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: leaving or ceasing his services. I think it says as
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: my business business manager or closing, ceasing closing, and as
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: my lover. I told him he should tell Wanda everything,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: and Wanda said that Jim had told her everything. Wanda,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: and granted they're not getting divorced for another like twelve
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: thirteen years after this, While on the telephone, reminded allegedly, yeah,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: reminded me of what maybe they stayed for the kids?
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Rop well minded back.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: Then, you know what I mean?
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you're right.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: You got to remember, I mean, this is February sixty four.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: We got to die start a document in June of
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: sixty four, and they likely weren't together by June, so
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: ideally separated at best final he divorced in the seventies,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: but definitely separate. Well, keep going here because it.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Kind of reminds you of like the Ruth and Michael
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Payne separation. And I'm using air quotes. Although he might
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: not be able to see me, you know, reminded me
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: of what she said in a previous conversation with me
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: that if Jim found out another woman, she would divorce him.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Wanda said she now knew that Jim loved her and
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: still loves her and the family, and that she would
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: not divorce him. During this cover real.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: Quick, Josephe likely instead of going to Robert Hoswell's house
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: to talk to Marina and then call Wanda from there,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: he knows showed, but he knew the walls are closing
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: in and it's time to fess up. So at that
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: point he probably told Wanda everything, which she says that
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: he did, and he probably said, look, you know, I
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: still love you and I want to be with you
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: and the family, and she agreed at that point not
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: to divorce him. But you know how these things go.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: H So once that is there, arguments will ensue. Afterwards.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: Things will be said ugly, things will be said that
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: cannot be taken back, things will be held over people's heads.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: Hence this least to more tense conversations and likely by June,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: Wanda was like, you know what, I'm out of here
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: for a while. Do your own thing, figure it out,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: and maybe we'll talk later, but for now I'm out. Yeah.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like the drama is indescribable. What's going on
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: when they get back from DC. During this conversation, I
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: needed Jim. I asked, Jim, I'm sorry why he had
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: told me he loved me when it was not true.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: He replied he did not know what had happened, Okay,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: that he had loved two women at the same time.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: So this is again Marina Oswald's statement. Here on the
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: same day, you have a Chief Secret Service Inspector Thomas J.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Kelly kind of doing a I call it kind of
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: a cover or ass document regarding them, because I think
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: they were probably under some they were in some shit
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: of why they kind of pulled surveillance off them.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: In DC.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: In the early hours of November twenty four to sixty three,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Special Agent James Howard requested the assistance of Sheriff Lou
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Evans Trent County, Texas in in securing a tape recorder
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: and a quiet place to interview the Oswalt family. So
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: now we're going back to that Monday, after Lee was shot,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Sheriff Evans suggested that he meets Special Agent Howard at
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: the Six Flags In where he would furnish his the
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: sheriff's recorder, and that Jim Martin, well known to the
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: sheriff rob would supply a room.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: Yep. And this is the sheriff that Martin reached out
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: to and said, you can bring Marina here. It's a
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: nice secluded spot. Nobody I'll know where she is. YadA, YadA, YadA.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: In the Secret Service went and checked it out and
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: agreed to bring her there. Mm hmm. Again, this was
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: this whole thing about bringing Marina and the kids and
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: everybody to Six Flags In was orchestrated by James Herbert Martin,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: orchestrated by him.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, Sir Marina Oswalt, Miss Marguerite Oswalt and mister Robert
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Howard and Kunkle were being driven to the Six Lights
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Hotel in Arlington, Texas when the news that Lee Harvey
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: Oswalt has been shot was announced. Now that's weird. That's
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: why were they going there before they knew?
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: But I regardless, they had to get out of wherever
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: they were at. I don''t remember they were. Yeah, they
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: were at the Executive Inn. But uh, I guess the
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: press had found out.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Where they were and were you know, just harassing them.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: Harassing the ship out of him or trying to arrass
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: the sh out of them.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, like just a lot of these moving
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: parts are very se to me. After the family had
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: viewed Lee's body and made funeral arrangements, special agents Howard
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: and Kunkle were instructed by me to take the Oswalt
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: family to a safe place for their protection. I left
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: the selection of the site to them since I was
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: unfamiliar with the Dallas area, and they decided in view
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: of the prior cooperative attitude of mister James or Martin
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: and as discretion in previous contexts with Sheriff Evans. That's
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: an interesting little sentence to return to the Six Flags Motel,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: where the Oswalt family remained under protection until November. I
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: believe that's at eight, although it's cut off. It looks
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: like a three doesn't make sense. It would be twenty
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: three sixty three.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: Real quick, you know. The So the Secret Service UH
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: left the room about noon February seventh, after Marina I
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: testified to the Warrant Commission and they were done right.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: If you think for a second that room wasn't wired
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: for sound or video or and or video, you are
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: sorely mistaken. Because whether it was a Secret Service or
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: the more likely the FBI, Okay they were, the FBI
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: had no qualms about UH tapping UH hotel rooms. Ah.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying they likely knew what happened in that
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: hotel room that night, which is why you know, we
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: have some of these documents that we have some of
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: the concerns that they have. Yep.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: And Robert Oswalt knew the day after they got back,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: the morning he showed up.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 4: I think.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: He showed up at ten am. I think that it
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: might be in my further power point here, so he
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: knew someone told him. He stayed with them for Robert
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: and Veda for like a night or two and then
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: went to the Fords. So a lot of things happening
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: here in his home around the clock. That is, if
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: missus Oswalt's presence became known to the neighborhood, there could
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: possibly be an adverse reaction. This is talking about when
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: he takes them in. We see some of this might
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: be irrelevant.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: Well, they likely shuled. He likely shuttled her in there
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: under the cover of darkness and of course wouldn't tell
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: anybody that she was there. But of course there was
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: a presence h Dallas Police secret Service posing as workers
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: and other things, uh cover, Yeah, to watch the house,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: the Martin household after Marina has moved and her kids
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: are moved in there.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: So yes, yes, they did have a twenty four hour shift.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know if they were sitting in a car
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: outside of the house or down the street, but they
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: were under servants per Marina was at least, let's see.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: He stated that he advised missus Marina Oswalt to mister
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Martin's invitation, blah blah. Robert further stated that he was
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: anxious to return to his own family in Denton, Texas
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: and would be unable to stay with Marina any longer.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: We're talking about six flags here. When the President's Committee
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: on the Assassination of President Kennedy decided upon a date
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: for Marina Oswalt's appearance, they notified me and arrangements were
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: made to bring Missus Oswalt to Washington on February second,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: sixty four for a ten am appearance before the Commission.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: That's one of the pictures I believe I the first
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: of the PowerPoint. I was informed by mister Rankin that
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: mister Jim Martin and Thorn would be accompanying Missus Oswalton
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: her two children. This later information was changed to reflect
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: that only the older daughter, June, would come to Washington
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: and that the infant would remain in the Martin residence
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: in the care of Missus Wanda Martin.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: Which is interesting, Yeah, because because they don't mention anything
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: about June when you're talking about what went down in
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: the in the Waldorf Hotel room. Uh, I don't really
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: mention anything about June.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: The Willard, Yeah, uh yeah. And it's just kind of
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: like a a weird maybe like not appropriate thought. But
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: when they did have sexual relations at the Willard was
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: tuned in the room in her crib. I don't see
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: another scenario where she wasn't creepy.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: John Martin Thorne was watching.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: The like either it's horrible to think about, right, yes, horrific.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. Special Agent of Secret Service Capods later
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: told me that Marina Oswald told him she felt that
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: Jim Martin was falling in love with her. This was
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: before and that he had some domestic difficulty before she
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: came to live with the Martins, but she felt it
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: had been straightened out since she was there. So I'm
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: having difficulty with my wife, so I'm going to invite
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: a pretty hot young woman to live with us and
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: that has been straightened out. Makes no sense to me
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: from a relationship standpoint. If I told my girlfriend, Hey,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: like I'm gonna have some twenty two year old girl,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: you know, like move in with her two kids. Like,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: imagine the reaction though there.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the only way you would get away with it
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: is if it was literally undercover work for the government,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like, that's your saving grace,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: that's your only player, that's all you got everything. It
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: just seems like the wife would just not go along
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: with that plan.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: You know what, I'm saying, right, there's no way a wife,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: even in the sixties would go along with that. No, No,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: like it's and the accused assassin of the president's wife
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: to boot right like it's And they have three kids
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: and they want two more.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, imagine the conversation that goes on. Look, Babe,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: I know this doesn't seem right, but look, we can
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: build this chick for a lot of money. Blah blah
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: blah or you know this, this is what we're being
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: asked to do by you know, our government.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: Right, that's the other picture. That's the other picture. That's
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: the other picture, Rob is the money aspect.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, again, money doesn't buy you happiness. Money is
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: the root of all And if that was the reason,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: then you see why things ended the way it did.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: But if you look at it from the conspiracy angle
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: that they were told to monitor and babysit, Marina and
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: Wanda went along with it for as long as she
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: could before she just it just got to her too much.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 4: It got to be too much. I mean, you got
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: to imagine her being right in the middle of this.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: The ship's going on in her own house in front
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: of you know, and her kids are in the house,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 4: Marina's kids are in the house. This guy's grabbing all
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: over Marina at every turn, you know, and trying to
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 4: kiss on her and all this stuff, and it's just
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: not good. Yeah.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: And there and there's the woman intuition, right, which is
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: pretty strong. Right. You kind of would get that that vibe.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you would have documents saying where Wanda helped
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 4: Marina cut her hair and change her appearance so that
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: she wouldn't be recognized in public so much. That's why
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: she cut all her hair off. Uh, and you know,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: started wearing makeup or whatever or differently or whatever the
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: case may be. You know, so you can see Wanda
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: kind of trying to get close to her as well
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: at certain points. But my guess is that things just
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: got out of hand and too much to handle for her,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know this is enough, you know, Okay, yeah,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: enough of this, uh she Uh. Marina said that Jim
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: Martin had told her she should buy a small house
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: in Dallas and that perhaps someday they could be married
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: aka b Michael mar for a little bit special aging
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: capads said he told her that she was playing a
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: very dangerous game and that if she got mixed up
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: in a divorce suit, she might find herself in trouble
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: with the immigration authorities.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: Yep, hents banging a married dude.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a letter from ju Rank into Jayga Hoover.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: You know this is covering all this drama in a sense.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: This will acknowledge receipt of your letter dated February seventeenth.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: This is a few days after advising the Commission regarding
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: the information recently for arsed by Robert Oswalt through a
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: Bureau confidential source, particularly that Marina Oswalt was forcibly made
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: to have intercourse with her business manager James Herbert Martin
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: sometime during her recent stay in Washington when she's testified
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: before the Commission. So now you have Robert saying it's
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: kind of like are yeah, thanks uh uh. And again
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: Robert Oswalt, I think has different motivations than everyone else.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 4: It's Marina. We have been embarrassed and she told him.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: That, you know, well, in her in her statement that
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: I didn't clip above, she said that it was consensual.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 4: Something I have told Robert you know, look, yeah, yeah,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: I didn't want to do but he made me.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's very plausible.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: You're answer banging him too, for all we know.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 6: That.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: Really that would be something huh, I would appreciate very
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: much if you would have your bureau take an appropriate
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: investigation of the matter and the effort to develop the
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: full circumstances surrounding the referred to incident. So, I mean, listen,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: this is Rankin to Hoover. This is like big drama here,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: not only on the human level, on the Martin and
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: Marina Oswalt and Robert Oswalt level, It's also on the
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: national security level, you know, because so there's a lot
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: going on here. In the judgment of the commission, it
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: is important to ascertain one, whether the intercourse between Marina
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: and Martin Oswalt occurred or Martin and Marina Oswald occurred
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: at a time when she was under the protective surveillance
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: of the Secret Service. Number two, whether she was in
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: the vicinity.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 4: Whether she was in fact for oh, thank.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: You, thank you, yes, thank you, sir. Three, When in
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: which those assistants she decided to discuss her will no, yeah, uh,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: When in which those assistants she decided to discuss dismiss
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, this is hard to read. James Martin and
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: Thorn from further association with her business interest and for
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: the circumstances surrounding her taking up residents with the Decline
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: Ford or the Fords.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: So again, in December of sixty three, she's accused of
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 4: banging Hugh Ainsworth as well. So you know, is Marina
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 4: just in it's a victim or is she handing it
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 4: out all over town type of thing?
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, we know about her dissatisfaction on the
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: account of the demoricields of her and Lee's sexual relations,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: you know, not being satisfied all that stuff.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 4: So little prick he lasts two minutes to pump hump.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: Then we have this is the same date. Interesting title,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: Rob Lee, Harvey Oswalt, internal Security, Cuba. I'm not sure
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: what this was to do with Cuba. We'll see, yeah, yeah,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: So they had a confidential informant at the Willard. This
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: was like one of the managers in the lobby. On
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: February nineteen sixty four, ff WFT one who has furnished
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: reliable information in the past, advised that Marina, wife of
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: the accused assassin, Lee, and her party stayed at the
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: Willard Hotel Pennsylvania, Avenue and some street. WFT one said
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: that the Presidential Commission was billed for expenses of missus
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: Oswalt until the departure of the Secret Service agents on
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: February seventh, sixty four. They allegedly got together the seventh
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: and the eighth. I believe they returned on the ninth.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: Her subsequent expenses of about ninety five dollars were billed
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: to mister Jim martin his box office.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of damn money for nineteen sixty four.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like over a ground.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, somebody must have been in the in the mini
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: bar a lot. Yeah, ordering a room service.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: Hey, I can't blame them for room service of the minibar.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: But Thorn's entire expenses were builled in the same manner,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: So there might have even been more. Thought that was interesting,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: and I think I only have one or two more here.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: WFT one, this is the same document, said he had
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: gained the impression from the way missus Oswald looked at
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: her business manager Martin that she was suite on him.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: He remarked to an unrecalled Secret Service agent, of course,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: that missus Oswald seemed to be enamored with Martin, and
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: the latter remarked as if in agreement, that he felt
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: sorry for the Martin's absent wife. WFT one said that
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: the housekeeper who handled the suite, so you know, this
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: is someone in management at the hotel, and we have
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: that document somewhere in our truck box. They name him.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: In questions, said that Martin and missus Oswalt always seemed
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: to be together whenever she was around the suite. WFT
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: one stated that he had no further information in this respect.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: He did mention that Martin was quite attract attentive to
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: her child June while they were at the hotel, but
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: thought part of this was for publicity effect. Interesting. WFT
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: one said that he had received no complaints whatsoever pertained
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: to missus Oswalt stay at the hotel. I guess you
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: didn't trust the place.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 4: Enough.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: Only the sheets, Mavie. Yeah, he said, the complain of
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: any nature. He said that a complaint of any nature
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: would have brought immediately to his attention. So yeah, it's crazy.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: They have informants at the Willard Hotel, right, So I
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: think this is my last one, and this is the
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: famous Richard Nixon story. And Rob I recently saw a
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: video on x where Nixon was describing his relationship with Kennedy,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: and it was a very good one. I mean, he
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: was invited to Kennedy's wedding. I don't know if he
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: went or not. And although they ran against each other
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: in what nineteen sixty I think it was or fifty
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: nine and sixty something like that, they were very respectful
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: of each other. And I watched this and maybe we'll
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: play it on members only because I don't want to
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: get dinged. Although it's just an interview, it's from the
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: Nixon library, it seemed that they were very fond of
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: each other. So I don't know why Lee would want
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: to shoot Nixon. But let's read this added information during
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: our interview with Robert Oswalt. He advised it on January thirteenth,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: sixty four, so this is way before the warrant commission,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: almost about a month when they left, or maybe three weeks.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: James Martin told him that Marina had told Martin that
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: when Richard Nixon visited Dallas, they not indicated Marina learned
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: that Lee intended to shoot Nixon. Yeah, and it seems
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: like another walker type of thing. Marina reportedly locked Lee
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswalt in the bathroom all day to prevent him
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: from doing so. And of course the problem with this
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: is how do you lock a bathroom door from the outside.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: Robert Oswald added that Marina related to the same story
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: to him on January thirteenth, sixty four, when they made
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: a trip to the cemetery to visit the grave of
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald hearsay. Robert Oswald said he does not
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: know where Lee and Marina were living at the time
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: of the alleged intention of Lee to shoot Nixon, and
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: he does not know the date of such incident, but
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: vaguely recalled that Nixon reportedly planned to visit Dallas during
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: the summer or early fall of nineteen sixty three. I
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: don't even know if Lee would have been there. Definitely
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: not in the summer, depending when in the early fall.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: Robert also does not recall Marina stating how she knew
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Ollswell plans to shoot Nixon. So this is,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: you know, a crazy story. I've never put any credence
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: to it. If you will, we can stop sharing. This's
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: not wrong and a bunch of drama going on. What's
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: going on with Robert bro He's like on some other shit.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 4: He is on some other shit, but he's always been
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: on some other shit. Yeah, I mean, not surprising, not surprising.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 4: And just to reiterate another thing, Joe, let me slide
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 4: this over. So I got an FBI document from June
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: twenty first, sixty seven, Okay, And the course this has
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 4: to do with James Herbert Martin and something that he
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 4: told the FBI on June twenty, nineteen sixty seven. Now,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 4: the document says approximately one and a half years ago,
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 4: So from sixty seven, one and a half years ago,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 4: that would be like the middle of sixty five or
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 4: the beginning of sixty five. Yeah, from June sixty Yeah,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 4: the beginning of sixty five, so January sixty five, that
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 4: he had been in Saint Petersburg, Florida, attempting to obtain
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 4: employment in the hotel restaurant management field. Which does lend
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 4: credence to the theory that Martin and his wife had
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 4: separated at some point. Okay, if she left him and
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: went to Europe to work as a wire intercept and
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 4: James Herbert Martin had been through the ringer at this
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 4: point his wife's left him, he moved to Florida to
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: find a job. Like things aren't going well in Dallas
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 4: anymore for him type of thing. Maybe he can't afford
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 4: to live where he was living. I don't know, but
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 4: this is some interesting information here. So, approximately one and
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: a half years ago, James Herbert Martin had been in
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 4: the Saint Petersburg, Florida area, attempting to obtain employment in
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 4: the hotel restaurant management field. At this time, a white
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 4: male first name unknown, linn Quist, employed in the management
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: business at the Sheraton out Rigor Hotel US Highway nineteenth South,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: Saint Petersburg, Florida, would not even consider employing Martin because
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 4: he was the individual who was the business manager from
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 4: Marine Oswald. Martin had been the manager of the end
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 4: of six Flags, Dallas, Texas at the time. Blah blah blah.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 4: Lyn Quist refused to employ him or consider him as
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 4: the hotel did not want the adverse publicity which accompanied Martin.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 4: Martin was unable to obtain employment in the hotel restaurant
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 4: mananagement field, and he is believed to have obtained employment
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: with Sears and Roebuck Company department store in Saint Petersburg, Florida. Oh,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 4: how the mighty have fallen Joe. And on June fifteenth,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 4: he once again attempted to obtain employment in the hotel
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 4: management business. On this day, he made information available to
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 4: the source that on November twenty second, that he'd been
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 4: the manager of the Inn six Flags when Kennedy was assassinated.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: Blah blah blah blah blah. Now what he tells the
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: FBI here? He says Secret Service agents had contacted him
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 4: and asked for a suite of rooms to be used
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 4: on a confidential basis to accommodate Marina, her mother in law,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 4: and Lee Oswald's brother, as well as representatives of the
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 4: Secret Service. That's a lie. He's the one that reached
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: out to the sheriff and got him to reach out
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 4: to the Secret Service to bring the Oswalds to him. Okada,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 4: So why is he lying here about that? He says
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 4: the group moved from the motel after one of the
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 4: government agents in form Marina that Marina's location had been
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 4: determined by another government agency and they would have to
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 4: move her. The government agents had already conducted a background
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 4: investigation on him and propositioned him again to allow Marina
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 4: and her two children to live with him in his home. Again,
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 4: this makes no sense. Okay. Uh. He was additionally propositioned
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 4: to be to being Marina Oswald's business manager, and he
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 4: accepted on a basis he would perform these duties as
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 4: long as she lived with him. Okay. So now he's
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 4: saying that they propositioned him to become her business manager.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 4: So that's the second lie he's telling. Marina Oswald and
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 4: her two and took up residence with him and his
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 4: family and operated as her business manager in preparing contracts
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 4: with magazines, newspapers, periodicals, arranged for interviews and press releases.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 4: He indicated money came in initially at the rate of
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 4: fifty thousand a week from public donors. That is a
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 4: fuck ton of money, bro, That's like five million a week.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 4: She resided with him for a period of three months,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 4: and during the time she was at the house, government
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 4: agents posed as attorneys developers lawng Care who were associates
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 4: of Martin. During press conferences, Marina would not answer questions
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 4: of reporters without an interpreter, and generally would answer the
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 4: questions in Russian. She was presented as a considerate mother
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 4: who cared for her children and was bereaved by the
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 4: loss of her husband. After meetings with the press, when
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 4: she would be alone with Martin's family per cares of folks,
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 4: she would always chastise the stupid Americans. Marina Oswald. As
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 4: I've always said on this show for the longest time,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 4: Marina Oswald consumed large amounts of vodka and spoke very
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 4: fluent English. Shocker, she spoke fluent English. Folks, Uh, she
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 4: was present, Okay after the meeting, she consists. She constantly
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 4: claimed that she had knowledge of the most important officials
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 4: of the Soviet Union and when living in Russia, she
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 4: had complete access to all government facilities. Allegedly, this is
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 4: what she's telling Martin. Let's see, she made statements she
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 4: knew about the assassination before it occurred, indicating for knowledge
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 4: that maybe Oswald told her what he was planning on doing.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 4: That's not a good look. That she was part of
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 4: the Communist Party and could have prevented the assassination had
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 4: she desired. Missus Martin maintained a diary and took down
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 4: exhaustive notes concerning all statements and comments made by Marina
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 4: Oswald during the time she lived with them. Okay, Gee,
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 4: does that sound like something that a CIA agent would do, Joe,
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 4: it does. Yeah, she said, missus Martin was doing it
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 4: because she intended to write a book in the future.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 4: That was the excuse.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: I wish she had no shit.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 4: Martin allegedly knew Jack Ruby, the man who killed Lee
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 4: Harvey Oswall, through a motel and restaurant associations in Texas.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, he admitted this during his warrant commissioned testimony, as
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: they were both in the club business when mister Martin
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: managed the Gay Nineties Club for about a month.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: Martin allegedly has made statements that the prosecuting attorney Garrison
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 4: in New Orleans, Louisiana, was right in his investigation of
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 4: Shaw in that Shaw was guilty of a conspiracy to
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 4: kill President Kennedy along with fifteen other individuals, and the
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 4: conspiracy was instituted in the city of Atlanta, Georgia. Hello,
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 4: mister milteer. Martin allegedly professed knowledge that on the night
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 4: of November twenty first, nineteen sixty three, that is, the
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 4: night before the assassination, a man made two phone calls
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 4: from Atlanta, Georgia to Dallas, Texas. One of the calls
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 4: was made to the residence of Lee Oswald, which would
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 4: have been the Pains, which is where he was on
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 4: the night of the twenty first. Right one of the
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 4: calls was made to the residents of the Pains, followed
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 4: by a second call to the private unlisted number of
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 4: Jack Ruby. In placing the call, the man informed the
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 4: long distance operator mark this short conversation, it will make history.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 4: Upon completing the call, he stated, everything is set. The
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 4: second call, which was made to Private Ruby's private unlisted phone,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 4: consisted only of the statement by the caller of quote
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 4: if anything goes wrong, you know what to do. Quote.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 4: Martin determined these calls had been made through an engineer
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 4: who had a wife who knew the long distance operator
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 4: who had made these calls. Martin allegedly had furnished this
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 4: information to the FBI at Dallas, who had discounted the
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 4: claims at the time. Allegedly, Martin allegedly has made statements
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 4: that President Lyndon Johnson was aware of the many problems
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 4: that Kennedy faced in Texas and of the numerous problems
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 4: that Kennedy had been caused by members of the criminal syndicates. Martin,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 4: President Kennedy had been trying to clean up a dirty
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 4: mess in organized crime. Martin professed to have a cousin
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 4: or uncle in a criminal crime syndicate in the Mafia.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 4: Joe Martin professed he had a friend that knew President
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 4: Johnson when he started out in politics. This individual claims
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 4: that Johnson early in his career, stated that he would
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 4: become president of the United States. The same friend allegedly
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 4: had stolen a secret ballot box stolen at the Democratic
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 4: National Convention at which President Kennedy was nominated for the
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 4: presidency of the United States. Johnson allegedly knows what was
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 4: in the box and who has it, and if the
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 4: contents of saying were known, it would greatly embarrass him.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 4: Martin professes that since President Kennedy's death, there have been
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 4: no problems for the crime syndicate, President Johnson, or the koshonotion.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 4: Martin indicated that the assassination of Kennedy was to have
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 4: included Connolly, but at the last minute someone had decided
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 4: that Connolly would be spared. Martin professed that a photograph
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 4: of the presidential car, which was presented to the Warren Commission,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 4: displaying a bullet hole on the right side of the windshield,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 4: indicating a shot that entered from the front, and that
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 4: this testimony had been explained away as not actually being
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 4: a bullet hole, but only as being a bug on
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 4: the windshield. He allegedly testified before the Warren Commission, and
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 4: at that time had not yet divulged the true nature
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 4: of Marina Oswald, concerning her proficiency in English, her drinking
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 4: heavily a vodka, and her extensive knowledge of Russian political matters.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 4: As business manager from Marina, he was to have obtained
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 4: ten percent of her income. A Dallas attorney by the
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 4: name of Thorn was to obtain five percent of her income,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 4: and Lee Oswald's brother was to obtain ten percent of
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 4: her income. Marina moved from his residence after three months
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 4: after a disagreement with Lee Oswald's brother, who wanted all
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 4: twenty five percent involved in administering Marina Oswald's accounts. So
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 4: now he's saying that Robert Oswald is the one that
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 4: fucked all this up right, and that Robert Oswald was
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 4: greedy and wanted him and Thorn out of the picture,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 4: and he wanted to make the entire twenty five percent. Additionally,
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 4: Oswald's brother claimed that all contracts and papers which had
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 4: been completed when Martin was her business manager had been
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 4: completed by Marina when she was under sedation after she
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: left his home. He filed a suit for twelve thousand,
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 4: five hundred dollars for use of his home during the
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 4: three month period by Marina and her children, and he
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 4: received this money and a settlement out of court. Marina,
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 4: according to Martin, now runs a restaurant in Dallas, Texas
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 4: entitled eat Me Here, No I'm joking on that the
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 4: following is a description and resume of James Herbert Martin,
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 4: and then they give a rundown of this whole thing.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 4: And he said he has never heard of the result
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 4: of the information he testified to concerning information told to
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 4: him by a resident manager of the Dentkler Plaza Hotel
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 4: in Atlanta, Georgia, while in the gay nineties, a private
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 4: club in Dallas where he Martin had formally associated in
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 4: December of sixty three, the maintenance man at the Dentler
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 4: Plaza Hotel where portally went to the resident manager with
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 4: a problem, and that the maintenance man's wife was a
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 4: long distance operator with a telephone company in the Atlanta
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 4: and it's not known whether she was employee of any
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 4: hotel or not. And it's just this fucking long drawn
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 4: out story about these calls to supposedly Lee Oswald and
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 4: the female operator overheard him, and the called place to
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 4: Jack Ruby, and the female operator overheard him allegedly telling Ruby,
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 4: you know what to do if anything goes wrong. So
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 4: I don't know what he's trying to do. Here says
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 4: here mister Martin thereupon related she had testified about Marina
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 4: to the effect she told his wife and himself various
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 4: things on occasions, all of which had no bearing on
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 4: the assassination. Yet Marina could speak English when she wanted to,
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 4: because she could hold conversations in broken English when she
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 4: wanted to as well, So she was faking a lot
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 4: of his broken English bullshit, I mean, during some interviews.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 4: And it just goes on and on and on about
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 4: all kinds of stuff. So the question for me becomes,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 4: why in nineteen sixty seven or early sixty five is
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 4: James Herbert Martin going to the FBI about all this
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 4: or that they are And I think the answer is,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 4: of course, to Garrison investigation at this point because it
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 4: says here in part of this. Concerning the recent New
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 4: Orleans publicity of a conspiracy involved in the assassination, mister
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 4: Martin stated, he has never personally known Jim Garrison or
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 4: Clay Shaw, and he has no knowledge of any conspiracy,
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 4: with the exception that he still had an unknown feeling
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 4: and unknown final knowledge as to the above referred to
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 4: phone calls from Atlanta to Dallas. He went on to
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 4: say that during the first two days he had been
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 4: contacted by the Secret Service in his hotel in Dallas.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 4: It had been mentioned by the Secret Service that they
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 4: suspected a plot involving fifteen to twenty people. They mentioned
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 4: some car had followed them on an occasion and they
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 4: contacted the local police to stop the car, which they did,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 4: and they found a man with a rifle, but the
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 4: man was not wearing honey clothes at all. Nothing further
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 4: was ever said about any plot, and he never heard
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 4: anything further until he read of the New Orleans allegations.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 4: Concerning a photograph, mister Martin stated that during the first
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 4: two days after the assassination, he was in contact with
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 4: the Secret Service and they showed him a photograph, an
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 4: eight x ten about which he would swear up and
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 4: down showed a bullet hole in the windshield. He said
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 4: he knew nothing further about all this, but the coincidence,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 4: as he mentioned, he tended to confuse him with the
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 4: idea more than Lee Oswald was involved. Then he goes
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 4: on here to deny, deny, deny. I said he had
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 4: no knowledge as to President Kennedy's trip to Dallas, but
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 4: a friend of his in the past, a Mary redacted
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 4: in her fifties, who was married to a man who
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 4: has a small insurance and hospitalization business in Dallas, who
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 4: drove a green Lincoln in sixty five, who had worked
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 4: for McKinney, a Texas newspaper as a reporter many years ago.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 4: Nam an address do I recalled, told him sometime in
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 4: sixty five that she had a date one time, many
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 4: years ago, and she attended with such a date a
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 4: political campaign meeting in Texas of now President Johnson. And
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 4: again I don't know what all this has to do
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 4: with anything whatsoever.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: No, my guess is just doing their due diligence in
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: case maybe Garrison reached out to that, but this was
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: way earlier.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 4: Right, so well, I don't know. Eight of sixty seven,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 4: so it's about right. When asked if there was anything whatsoever,
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 4: he knew that he had not been asked up to now. Again,
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 4: this is a transcript of an FBI interview with him.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 4: So mister Martin responded by stating that Marina Oswald had
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 4: remarked on an occasion when in his home that when
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 4: she first heard of the assassination, she had run out
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 4: to the garage, apparently whether wherever she had been living
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 4: at such a time, because she wanted to see if
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 4: Oswald's rifle was there. The rifle supposedly was wrapped in
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 4: a blanket, and Marina remarkedly remarked, she said she thought
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 4: it was there in the blanket. She had never said
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 4: anything further about the matter, and he had no further
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 4: knowledge of such event. Mister Martin was thereupon asked about
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 4: his wife's diary, and he stated, quote, I have seen it.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 4: It is yellow, it is hers. I have never read
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 4: it nor looked through it. Mister Martin stated he was
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 4: positive there would be nothing in it that had not
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 4: been told. Okay, He said his wife never kept a
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 4: diary up as actually a diary chronological event of their
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 4: conversations and personal knowledge, and that it was only notes
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 4: that his wife made whenever she got around to it
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 4: or had some spare time, just drot something down. He
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 4: said he's never read it, but he's been told that
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 4: it was mostly his wife's emotional feelings on a personal
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 4: basis that she had recorded, noting in the beginning of
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 4: their associations with the Oswald's in their home, his wife
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 4: had liked Missus Oswald, but later she was very much disliked.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 4: I believe that's the understatement of the year. Martin related
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 4: he had still I'll not obtain hotel employment blah blah
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 4: blah blah blah.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 4: The reason that I think that they were separated at
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 4: this time Joe is he makes no mention of his kids,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 4: no mention of his wife, and that he's now in
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 4: Saint Petersburg, Florida, looking for a job and he can't
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 4: get on and he's bitter.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I agree. You don't look for a job
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: if you live in Texas and in Florida, go to
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: Florida to look for a job if if there's not
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: something wrong. Right, Maybe it didn't officially happen until the
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: mid to late seventies, but yeah, definitely seems like it.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 4: So the whole point being, is it possible. Is it
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 4: possible that the CIA document that has Missus James H.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 4: Martin on it, with her being employed as a wire
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 4: intercept for the CIA in nineteen sixty four, could it
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 4: be her? Yeah, it could be.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: Her, especially if you think of the title on the
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: third page of it, engaged to contract agent, not your
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: typical wife, right, m That's how it started.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know when you put that up against
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 4: everything else that supposedly happened from them being followed back
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 4: from Russia on the HS or the s s Masdam
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 4: by the Martins. Martin lying about who orchestrated the stay
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 4: at the Six Flags in to the FBI. He didn't
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 4: say it was me, but it was definitely him.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they knew that too, by the way, I'm sure.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 4: You know, not to mention all the other fuckery that's
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 4: going around all of this when you put it under
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 4: that lens of conspiracy, and the fact that you know
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 4: a lot of people think that, hey, Ruth Payne was
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 4: kind of babysitting Marina Oswald. Before that, you have the
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 4: Demorin Shields kind of babysitting the Oswalds right for a
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 4: short time, and of course you would want another one
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 4: at you know, after this incident happens, you have to
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 4: you know, you can't just you can't just keep being
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 4: ruth you know, at this time, it has to be
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 4: somebody else. And you know, if they had used them
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 4: before to survey the Oswalds back to Texas and they
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 4: were still in place in Texas at the time of
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 4: the assassination going down, then they could have been activated
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 4: again to say, hey, here's what we need you to do.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 4: You know, you need to keep a close eye on
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 4: write down everything this bitch says, you know, type of thing,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 4: try to get any information you can, get as close
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 4: to it as you can, gain her confidence, make a
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 4: fall in love with you, you know, give her the
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 4: d what you know, however, you got to do it.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 4: You know, we need to stay close to this situation
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 4: and find out information. And you know we all have
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 4: our own ways of trying to find out information. You know,
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 4: his was to try to slay his way in. And again,
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 4: this is nineteen sixty seven. He's given a whole different
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 4: picture version of Marina right, one that is constantly drunk, right,
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 4: one that has been lying about being fluent in English,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 4: bragging about political contacts in Russia, being bragging about being
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 4: a communist, bragging about knowing about the assassination beforehand, bragging
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 4: that she could have stopped it but chose not to
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 4: type of thing. Is it all horseshit? Maybe? Is there
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 4: some truth there? Maybe that's the interesting part. That's the
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 4: interesting part.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: Definitely, if I just had to guess, and I would
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: say there's some truth to it, there's some bullshit to it.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: I think the fore knowledge part is a little bit
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: of a stretch, but you never know.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, yeah, and I'm pulling up this
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 3: I'm pulling up this picture here just to show everybody.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 4: That we're not. It might sound like a crazy premise
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 4: on the surface, right, and it does. But you know,
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 4: when you start taking everything in the totality, right, not
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 4: looking at everything individually individually, all of these things seem
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 4: batshit crazy. But when you start taking you're finding more
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 4: and more and more things that point to certain things
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 4: and other things that point to certain things. Like, for instance,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna get to I'm trying to find
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 4: the mass damn manifest picture. Do you have that handy Joe.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: The picture of allegedly him on the boat.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 4: Here. I got it.
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 6: I do have it in my folder. If you got it,
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 6: you got all right? Hold on, give me a second.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so real quick. Here is the mass dam
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 4: there you go, manifest And I know it's small, but
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 4: this is the boat that Oz walled and Marina came
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 4: back from Amsterdam to New York on and highlighted here
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 4: at the bottom, okay, Martin j h right, mm hmm,
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 4: four and one.
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, children, three children and his wife.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 4: Yep, and probably two older kids and a baby, right,
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 4: you know, for fair consideration whatever.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And and there is the fair that has crossed
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: out and uh.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 4: Uh changed a little bit, yes, and then let's see.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: We have this.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 4: The picture on the left, okay, is from a ss
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 4: mads Damn website which has pictures of the crews that
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 4: Oswald was on. It shows pictures of Oswald eating in
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 4: the in the in the cafeteria, lunchtime, blah blah blah.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 4: On the left, all right, was in one of the pictures.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 4: And I'll be goddamn if it don't look like James
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 4: Herbert Martin chilling on the deck in a chair with
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 4: some glasses on with shit, eat and grin on his face,
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 4: love and life. There's nothing here that screams it's not him.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 4: The nose appears the same, the ears appear the same,
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 4: the lips appear the same, the chin appears the shame
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 4: that the hairstyle appears the same. I mean, there's nothing
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 4: on to hear that screams this ain't him.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: Right, And the one of the one on the right
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: might look like, say, he's lost alttle on his hairline,
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: but you have to think what he's been through in
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: the last two years. Right, you could see that beating,
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 2: uh you know, or just the hair a hairstyle, but
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: you could see us maybe it's combed back more and
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: he doesn't have any all on it.
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 4: He is on the deck of the ship in the
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 4: middle of the ocean with the wind blowing, you know. So,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 4: but you see how there's a little bit of a
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 4: fade over his ear, that the runs from his two
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 4: pule over his ear towards the back of his head
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 4: where it's like a shorter than the rest of it.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 4: And it appears on the right that he has still
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 4: has that same kind of cut, right, I don't know.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 4: To me, this is fucking James Herbert Martin on the
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 4: ss mad down right, I'll die on that hill. You
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 4: may not agree. But now this one, right, this is
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 4: a FBI document from November thirtieth, nineteen sixty three, concerning
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 4: Marina in the detail and James Herbert Martin and all
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 4: of that jazz, and they're talking about him. The general
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 4: manager of the inn six Flags. Jim Martin is a
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 4: resident manager at the end of six Flags. Mister Brown
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 4: took over as manager on June fifteenth, sixty three, and
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 4: he said that Martin had previously been with the Statler
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 4: Hilton in Dallas as credit manager and subsequently had worked
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 4: with the cart Blanche credit card company. Okay, so when
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 4: he was working at the Statler Hilton in Dallas, this
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 4: was in the fifties, right, like fifty seven, fifty eight,
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 4: and then subsequently the cart Blanche credit card company, which
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 4: was a Hilton owned credit card, right, which is a
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 4: perfect cover to go overseas and you know, sell this
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 4: credit card to exclusive people. And if you think for
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 4: a second, folks, you know, we try to make this
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 4: point back then too as well, that the CIA would
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 4: likely have had a good relationship with big hotel companies,
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 4: especially abroad and in Europe and stuff like that, because
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 4: they would want to know who is visiting where. Hell,
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 4: they might have even had the rooms bugged type of thing.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 4: But you know that's intelligence. If you know that, you know,
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 4: some guy you're watching from Russia just traveled to Helsinki
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 4: and so and so is meeting him in his hotel room.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's intelligence, right. So the CIA likely has
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 4: a nice hand in hand relationship with the Hilton Hotel
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 4: company right where they share intelligence.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Rob, if you want to put put that up. Yeah,
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: this is what we worked on initially. And there is
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: a gap that really coincides with what Lee's well, I
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: mean pretty close with Lee's time in Russia. And you
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: know the dates when he worked with the Jack Murphy
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: Insurance company, and that's a whole another thing. And go
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: back to our first episode that talks about the shadiness
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: with him. It was a mayor or something, or a
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: corrupt executive or something. He doesn't really pop up until
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: you know, nineteen sixty two. Allegedly this is the best
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: we had it at the time.
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 4: There's dates there for sixty two I think are off.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, no, one we just showed stated it,
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 4: and I don't know when the Oswald's came back. I
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 4: know it was in June. It was June June fifteenth
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 4: that he became the manager of the Six Flags in
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 4: and I don't know when he was manager of the
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 4: Gay nineties. It definitely wasn't in I don't think in
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 4: May of sixty two at that point.
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I believe it was only for a month.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: And again this is a few years old and we've
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: found more documents since. So but the point is there
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: is a big gap.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 4: Yep, big gap during the time that Oswald is in
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 4: Russia where we don't know exactly where we take that off.
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 4: We don't know exactly where he was, and we know
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 4: he's working for the cart Blanche credit card Hilton, but
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 4: we don't know where, right and possibly in your you know,
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 4: it makes sense if it was in Europe somewhere.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: So Southwest, says I love this martin Ish. Yeah, man,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: that's I figured it'd be appropriate for my little hiatus
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: to come back and talk Martin.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 4: Yep, sally two years and again the length of it,
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 4: if it's blowing around, you know, if it's longer, you know,
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 4: I'm not too worried about the hairline, because I mean
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 4: it's pretty much the same shape. The hairline is just
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 4: receded a lot, you know, a little bit in two
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 4: years time.
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and with the stress of what he was dealing
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: with at that time, it's it's not out of the
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: question type of thing, you know.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll put it back up. I mean you can
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 4: see on the left it's already receding back on his
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 4: temple for sure by this point. And you know it's
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 4: kind of quaffed there in front, maybe a little Bouffont
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 4: type thing where he had more hair up front there
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 4: than he does on in two years time, where he's
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 4: combing it straight right back. Uh, you know, I don't know.
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 4: But again, there's nothing to me that says that this
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 4: is not him.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Like I said, with pictures, it's tricky, always right,
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 2: talking about dealing plausa pictures. But I I don't rule
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 2: it out.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 4: It's awful, Goden, even funny that this on this trip
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 4: with the manifest with the Oswald's on the boat, the
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 4: picture of this motherfucker that looks just like James Herbert
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 4: Martin just saying, yeah, it's too much of a coincidence,
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 4: too much.
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when you consider everything else.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, considering everything in his totality. Like I said, you
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 4: take this individually, you may dismiss it, and maybe it is.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 4: Maybe it isn't. Well, it could be a coincidence that
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 4: somebody else named Jates Martin with the family five is
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 4: on the on the mass damn manifest that's coincidence, Okay,
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 4: James Herbert Mark and you know, coordinates the Oswald's coming
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 4: to his thing. It's suspicious, but you know, in the
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 4: totality of everything that happened, how it happened, what we have,
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 4: what we know now, it's to me, it's suspect as hell.
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 4: To me, it's clear as a bell. Okay. These folks
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 4: were working with the CIA. I mean the names right
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 4: there on the CIA document missus James H. Martin. And
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 4: trust me, we've looked through a lot of CI employees
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 4: named James H. Martin and none of the match except
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 4: this dude.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep, there was you know, the researcher you mentioned earlier.
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: It was like, whoa, there was a James Hyman Martin
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: and we found his oh bit and he was married
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 2: to the love of his life his whole life. Like, no,
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: that's not him. He tried to Debuncket and of course
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 2: he didn't respond.
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 4: So yeah, so it was a better answer than James
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 4: Herbert Martin. You know, we got to go with what
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 4: we got and he suspects hell. What he did was
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 4: suspect his hell, given his history and and you know,
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 4: the whole wanded thing is, it's it's it all makes
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 4: sense that she would want to separate herself from this dude,
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 4: do her own thing. Well, what's she going to do?
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 4: Go back to doing the same thing she was doing before, right, Yeah,
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 4: while he's out selling his credit card at the Hilton,
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 4: you know, she's home with the kids, or while the
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 4: kids are at school, she's monitoring wire in her steps,
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 4: you know. And then they're a big, happy family and
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 4: you know, everybody comes home for dinner, she cooks dinner,
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 4: and life goes on and he goes to work and
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 4: the kids go to school, and she does some wire
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 4: and heff you know, in a spare time and then
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 4: oh ship, they get the call the Oswald are leaving Russia.
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 4: Get some tickets, now, get on the master. You know,
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 4: it's time to go back type of thing. Yeah, I
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 4: don't know, Yeah, it makes sense to me, but.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what the hell do any of us know in
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: this crazy case? Right? But yeah, I've been looking forward
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: to kind of rehash some of this and uh, I
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 2: thought it was very informative and I think a lot
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 2: of the people liked it based on the comments here
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 2: I've been seeing.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 4: Yep, yep, all right, folks, that's a pod. Were two
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 4: hours in. Thank you guys for hanging out and all
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 4: your wonderful comments, and uh, we'll be back next Wednesday night.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 4: From members only, we have to go a little deeper
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 4: into all this as well. And on that note, grab
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 4: the damn dog, Joe. There she is.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 2: You're an international sensation for.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 5: The record, But he said, come to Bourbon Street and
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 5: I'll show you what I think of the case.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 4: Ship. I'm trying to add you, well.
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 5: The greatest lies are told in the name of truth.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 5: The greatest crimes are committed in the name of justice.
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 5: The quotation is Jimy harrisons it could be used far
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 5: against him in this strange case.
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 7: Good night, there we go. Ok, all right, folks, you
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 7: next Wednesday. In the meantime, peace.
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 4: We at mm hmmm.
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: He's good to be back.
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 4: Everyone,