Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / LIVE FROM CRIME CON: 2 girls murdered at local Delphi bridge, families search for answers

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LIVE FROM CRIME CON: 2 girls murdered at local Delphi bridge, families search for answers · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Two beautiful young girls go
0:14
Speaker 1: out for the afternoon at a public park, a trailhead,
0:19
Speaker 1: so to speak. They're never seen alive again, and even
0:25
Speaker 1: now the search goes on for their killer. I'm Nancy Grace.
0:30
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories Live at Crime Con in New Orleans.
0:36
Speaker 1: Welcome everybody, of course, I'm talking about the unsolved murders
0:41
Speaker 1: of the two little girls, Liberty and Abigail on that
0:46
Speaker 1: Delphi Bridge. Some of my most important guests are all
0:51
Speaker 1: of you here to help put together the clues left
0:56
Speaker 1: behind and hopefully bring home a killer and put him
1:02
Speaker 1: where he belogs, and that is behind bars. With me
1:08
Speaker 1: an all star panel to lead us through the facts
1:11
Speaker 1: that we know. Judge Ashley Wilcott, forensic professor at Jacksonville
1:17
Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, Joseph Scott, Morgan,
1:22
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Lee Egan, and now
1:27
Speaker 1: our special guests from Delphi. My name is Mike Patty
1:33
Speaker 1: from Delphi, Indiana. I'm the grandfather of Liberty German, and
1:37
Speaker 1: we're here to spread awareness and information about our case
1:40
Speaker 1: that's still unsolved. We're still chasing the guy who murdered
1:44
Speaker 1: our girls, and with events like this and the support
1:49
Speaker 1: of people like you, we hope to continue to spread
1:51
Speaker 1: the word and spread the information because there's a guy
1:54
Speaker 1: out there somewhere who murdered our girls, and we're out
1:58
Speaker 1: here to catch him. And thank you for your support.
2:01
Speaker 1: I see you even see some T shirts from last year,
2:03
Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you for your support. I'm Ericerskin
2:08
Speaker 1: and I'm Abigail's grandpa and I'm from Delphi, Indiana as well,
2:14
Speaker 1: and I like to thank you for the opportunity and
2:17
Speaker 1: Crime Conton to allow us to come and share our story.
2:20
Speaker 1: And we got a table up on the third floor,
2:24
Speaker 1: and if you want to help us out, we've got
2:27
Speaker 1: some flyers and we'd love to talk to you and
2:32
Speaker 1: help share our story and our message. So thanks for
2:36
Speaker 1: having us. You know, I want to start where I
2:39
Speaker 1: start a lot of cases when I would try cases,
2:43
Speaker 1: investigate cases, report on cases. I want to talk for
2:47
Speaker 1: just one moment about Delphi because the actual location and
2:52
Speaker 1: I don't mean the trustle bridge for those of you
2:54
Speaker 1: just joining us, were talking about two beautiful little girls
2:58
Speaker 1: that were kidnapped and lost their lives off a trestle bridge.
3:03
Speaker 1: What I mean by that is one of those suspended
3:05
Speaker 1: railroad bridges that was in an open area kind of
3:10
Speaker 1: like a park. Would you call it a park. It's
3:13
Speaker 1: part of the trail system. Yeah, that's a better description.
3:16
Speaker 1: It's not like a park as you would know it
3:18
Speaker 1: in a sythe or a suburb. It's just as he said,
3:22
Speaker 1: there's a trail. There are trails going around it, but
3:27
Speaker 1: a lot of people go there, so in that way,
3:29
Speaker 1: it's akin to a park, but it's more like a
3:32
Speaker 1: trail setting. And there's the bridge, and we know the
3:37
Speaker 1: girls who were on the bridge because they took photos,
3:40
Speaker 1: just like my children. That was a real struggle to
3:42
Speaker 1: decide to give them cell phones, and I regret it
3:45
Speaker 1: every day that I did, but they've got them now.
3:47
Speaker 1: They can't sign the bag. But these they thought to
3:51
Speaker 1: take a photo of a guy approaching them. And I
3:54
Speaker 1: find that in itself very very interesting because guy people
3:59
Speaker 1: walk by I saw all the time, and my twins
4:01
Speaker 1: don't think to take out their camera and take a picture.
4:04
Speaker 1: So something led them to take that picture. But I
4:08
Speaker 1: want to ask you guys, if you could tell us
4:10
Speaker 1: about Delphi. There's a very low crime rate. How big
4:13
Speaker 1: is it? Where is it how close is it to
4:16
Speaker 1: an interstate or an airport, And that's a very significant
4:20
Speaker 1: in this investigation. Okay, I think we're between two and
4:25
Speaker 1: three thousand people in Delphi. It's a rule setting. You know,
4:28
Speaker 1: a lot of farming community around that. As far as
4:32
Speaker 1: an airport goes, it's the commercial airport is in Indianapolis
4:35
Speaker 1: about sixty miles away. Some of the local you know,
4:40
Speaker 1: we have a few local factories there in Delphi. I
4:42
Speaker 1: mean it's pretty small. It's a we have a hog
4:45
Speaker 1: plant or a you know, swine operation there. It's just
4:51
Speaker 1: your typical small Midwest town, you know, where nothing happens.
4:54
Speaker 1: It's usually pretty boring, you know, Friday night football games
4:58
Speaker 1: and basketball games, you know, from the high school. And
5:02
Speaker 1: then the trail system that goes around town. That's we
5:04
Speaker 1: used to take the kids in there and we put
5:08
Speaker 1: the bikes because we live out in the country a
5:09
Speaker 1: little bit. We'd build the bikes in the back of
5:11
Speaker 1: a pickup and going there and ride trails all over town.
5:14
Speaker 1: It's a very common place. I mean, that's what somebody
5:17
Speaker 1: in a neighboring town know about that trail. Sure you
5:22
Speaker 1: get if you google Delphi and historic trail systems. I
5:26
Speaker 1: mean there's information out there. Okay, you say Google, but
5:30
Speaker 1: with somebody in the next town over or the next
5:33
Speaker 1: town over know about the trestle bridge and that trail system.
5:37
Speaker 1: Sure that bridge is one hundred years old something of
5:40
Speaker 1: that nature. It's a part of an you know, uh,
5:43
Speaker 1: non operating railroad system. So I would say very common.
5:47
Speaker 1: You know the people in the area, don't you know
5:50
Speaker 1: what they're saying is really significant to the investigation, Uh,
5:54
Speaker 1: to you. Joe Scott, Joe Scott Morgan with us. He
5:58
Speaker 1: is a professor. Friends, it's at Jacksona State University. He's
6:01
Speaker 1: the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and
6:05
Speaker 1: I'm happy to have you with us. Just got the
6:08
Speaker 1: significance of that in a nutshell, A nutshell that's got
6:12
Speaker 1: that big Let me just say a peanut shell, not
6:18
Speaker 1: a walnutshell. Go ahead. Yeah, Delphi is markedly isolated. This
6:26
Speaker 1: is in my opinion, this is not someplace that you
6:29
Speaker 1: wind up by accident. This is something that is known.
6:34
Speaker 1: It is a location that is familiar. And this railroad trestle,
6:39
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know a lot of us are from
6:41
Speaker 1: the rural areas of the country. We have specific locations
6:44
Speaker 1: like that that are known to us. You know, they'll say, well,
6:47
Speaker 1: we're going down to the tracks, we're going down to
6:49
Speaker 1: the bridge, We're going down to the railroad trestle, or
6:51
Speaker 1: down to you the covered bridge or whatever. That's probably
6:54
Speaker 1: a significant area. People would have to know that. Right
6:58
Speaker 1: in Macon, where I grew up in Big Cawn, I
7:00
Speaker 1: need not even in the incorporated city would go is
7:03
Speaker 1: that by seven bridges. Nobody would know that unless you're
7:07
Speaker 1: from there, which is a series of bridges over swamp
7:12
Speaker 1: area with me Ashley Wilcot, judge lawyer anchor. You can
7:18
Speaker 1: find her at ashe Wilcott dot com. Ash The significance
7:21
Speaker 1: of it being a rural area, it's important. It's a
7:26
Speaker 1: huge importance. So I think if it were metro, you'd
7:28
Speaker 1: think it could have just been a crime of opportunity.
7:30
Speaker 1: When you think of rural, I think of probably not
7:33
Speaker 1: a crime of opportunity. Probably someone went there with a plan,
7:37
Speaker 1: and I think that they will do it again if
7:39
Speaker 1: they're not caught. I just it's hard for me to believe,
7:43
Speaker 1: guys that this was the purpse first time at the rodeo,
7:49
Speaker 1: to go from zero to two hundred mph in one day.
7:55
Speaker 1: And this is anecdotal, but I guarantee, I bet you
7:59
Speaker 1: there are statistics to back it up. Whenever I would
8:01
Speaker 1: have a murder or an assault of this nature. It
8:08
Speaker 1: was not the first offense. There had been a peeping tom,
8:11
Speaker 1: there had been a grab and snatch, there had been
8:15
Speaker 1: something leading up to that, and that makes me think
8:19
Speaker 1: the per had offended before, whether or not he was caught,
8:23
Speaker 1: which means he wouldn't be in the system if he
8:25
Speaker 1: wasn't caught. And I want to know your thoughts on that. Well,
8:29
Speaker 1: it's purely speculation, obviously, Yeah, I would think that the
8:35
Speaker 1: person who did this, I don't I can't say whether
8:39
Speaker 1: they've done it before or not. Sure like I find
8:41
Speaker 1: that information out when we get him in custody, you know.
8:45
Speaker 1: But more importantly, I want to make sure he doesn't
8:46
Speaker 1: do it again, you know, so when we get him caught.
8:49
Speaker 1: But I'm sure he has to have something in his
8:51
Speaker 1: past that triggered this. I mean, normal people don't do
8:53
Speaker 1: things like this, you know. I know we're trying to
8:56
Speaker 1: trying to understand the psychics of why people do these
8:59
Speaker 1: kind of things to other human beings. Can I just
9:03
Speaker 1: correct you? Because I used to do that in court,
9:05
Speaker 1: and after about five years literally I'm trying cases, I
9:10
Speaker 1: finally said, I'm going crazy trying to figure out why,
9:15
Speaker 1: and that is not my job. My job is to
9:17
Speaker 1: identify who did it and prove the case and know
9:19
Speaker 1: in my heart I got the right guy so I
9:22
Speaker 1: can stand in front of a jury and explain it
9:24
Speaker 1: to them. So by why, I don't have time to
9:28
Speaker 1: think about why. I'm trying to figure out who. And
9:31
Speaker 1: if I thought for a minute that this guy had
9:34
Speaker 1: offended before, that would give me a clearer picture of
9:37
Speaker 1: who do you think from? What do you know that
9:42
Speaker 1: this person is offended before? I, you know, kind of
9:47
Speaker 1: agree with what Mike says. We don't know, but you
9:52
Speaker 1: could speculate all day, and what we do know the
9:56
Speaker 1: fact is that he took our girls. And that's the
9:59
Speaker 1: bottom line. And uh, I agree with you that. UM.
10:04
Speaker 1: We've all lost a lot of sleep trying to figure
10:06
Speaker 1: out why and how could somebody do this? Um, But
10:11
Speaker 1: the bottom line is they're out there, and so we
10:15
Speaker 1: have to share the message and stay on track, UM,
10:19
Speaker 1: and and share the photo that the police feel most
10:23
Speaker 1: confident with at the sketch that they're most comfortable with
10:28
Speaker 1: and um, so in our fear as families that somebody
10:33
Speaker 1: doesn't do this once and then turn over a new
10:37
Speaker 1: leaf and and and never never do horrible, horrific act
10:44
Speaker 1: like this. So um, that's you know, another element that
10:49
Speaker 1: you know drives us to you know, to stay on
10:52
Speaker 1: track because that we don't want any other families to
10:56
Speaker 1: suffer what we've gone through at the you know, the
11:00
Speaker 1: hands of the person like this Crime Stories with Nancy
11:14
Speaker 1: Grace league and joining us everybody Crime online dot Com
11:22
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. Let's give me a nutshell at the beginning
11:26
Speaker 1: and then bring us up to date. Okay, Nancy, Well,
11:31
Speaker 1: the girls on February thirteenth, they went out for a
11:35
Speaker 1: walk February thirteenth, so it's called it was cold, yes,
11:39
Speaker 1: And they went on a walk on the Mononheigh Bridge.
11:42
Speaker 1: And according to Indiana State Police Doug Carter, this is
11:46
Speaker 1: a type of bridge where you have to know what
11:48
Speaker 1: you're doing because it's rickety. Some ropes are falling off,
11:53
Speaker 1: so you have to have been on that bridge before
11:56
Speaker 1: to be able to just to walk freely on it.
11:57
Speaker 1: So obviously these girls they asked their parents permission and
12:01
Speaker 1: they went on the bridge and it was a typical day,
12:04
Speaker 1: you know, many children did that. It wasn't like they
12:06
Speaker 1: were off in some secluded area. This is like a
12:08
Speaker 1: park area. And on that particular day, there happened to
12:12
Speaker 1: be a stranger on the bridge with them, and the stranger,
12:17
Speaker 1: one of the little girls, obviously felt fear, pulled out
12:20
Speaker 1: to her phone and recorded him saying down the bridge.
12:25
Speaker 1: From that point, that's the last anyone heard from them.
12:29
Speaker 1: And then the following day police found the girl's bodies
12:34
Speaker 1: not far from the bridge in a ditch hold on
12:39
Speaker 1: we've got a question, right, hear it? But to spring
12:41
Speaker 1: forward from there, the search goes on. At first, the
12:45
Speaker 1: families couldn't take in that they were actually missing, and
12:51
Speaker 1: because it seems so surreal, there has been a massive
12:57
Speaker 1: effort put into catching the part. And recently a photo
13:03
Speaker 1: was released of a somebody already with a record that
13:09
Speaker 1: really looked a lot like the guy on the bridge.
13:14
Speaker 1: And remind me, Ash, I want to circle back to
13:17
Speaker 1: how you can enhance photos and get a better look
13:20
Speaker 1: of who was on the bridge. What's your question? All
13:23
Speaker 1: My thought is school was out that day. That person
13:26
Speaker 1: is he would know schools out there that day, and
13:28
Speaker 1: there could be children on the track, women on the track,
13:32
Speaker 1: so it's out that day. They would be familiar with
13:34
Speaker 1: that schedule. Possibly. Yeah, what day of the week was it, guys?
13:39
Speaker 1: It was a Monday. Yeah, and just a couple of
13:41
Speaker 1: things that no disrespect. But it was actually fairly warm
13:45
Speaker 1: that day. It was T shirt weather. It's like sixty
13:47
Speaker 1: five degrees, uncannily warm for February thirteenth in the midday.
13:51
Speaker 1: Guy has on a hoodie and a jacket and a
13:54
Speaker 1: lot of clothes. It's a great point you picked up
13:57
Speaker 1: on that. I mean, in fact, it was homeless. In fact,
13:59
Speaker 1: the girl earls when they left, they didn't they didn't
14:02
Speaker 1: want to wear it, even take a sweatshirt. They were
14:03
Speaker 1: in T shirts. My wife said, no, you guys, grab
14:07
Speaker 1: a sweatshirt. In fact, m Kelsey dropped them off, She said,
14:10
Speaker 1: you grab the sweatshirts and take them with you. You
14:13
Speaker 1: know what, I think I remember them telling me that
14:15
Speaker 1: why is she or that she made him take something
14:18
Speaker 1: with them. Yeah. I do that to Lucy all the time.
14:22
Speaker 1: John David will do it without a problem. Lucy is
14:25
Speaker 1: the issue. She's eighty pounds of hair and eyelash. Ask
14:30
Speaker 1: that's it. That's what she is? You know? Interesting? He
14:34
Speaker 1: has on a shirt it looks like a shirt, a
14:38
Speaker 1: hoodie and a jacket and a hat for sixty five
14:43
Speaker 1: degree weather. Now what does that say to you? Overdressed
14:48
Speaker 1: is what I saw. I know that, But what can
14:52
Speaker 1: I deduce from it? Why is he dressed like that?
14:57
Speaker 1: Because he didn't have a car to leave the stuff in,
14:59
Speaker 1: because he had to wear it, because he's homeless and
15:03
Speaker 1: he's wearing everything he's got. He didn't look holess to me.
15:06
Speaker 1: But why would he be wearing all that? What's he
15:09
Speaker 1: hiding underneath? Yes, ash to the photo, because I swear
15:16
Speaker 1: I do not think this guy looks like the photo.
15:20
Speaker 1: To me, the photo is the more reliable thing. But
15:26
Speaker 1: they had to enhance it and enhance it, enhance it.
15:29
Speaker 1: So what do we really know about the photo? Right? So,
15:32
Speaker 1: from a judicial perspective, when I see evidence come before
15:35
Speaker 1: me and it's a photo Nancy, often after they've enhanced it,
15:39
Speaker 1: enhanced it, enhanced it, it does look different than maybe
15:41
Speaker 1: a shot like this where you can't see the entire
15:43
Speaker 1: face of the man in the photograph. But I'm going
15:46
Speaker 1: to tell you this, this is what's interesting to me.
15:49
Speaker 1: Usually when they enhance and hands and hands. It looks
15:52
Speaker 1: so much like the defendant. I am here to tell you.
15:54
Speaker 1: I see the evidence presented. It's like, holy moley, those
15:57
Speaker 1: drawings often do look like the person charge with the crime.
16:01
Speaker 1: So this when I struggle with because I agree with you,
16:03
Speaker 1: does it look exactly like the person in the photo
16:05
Speaker 1: from what we can see in the photo? No, but
16:07
Speaker 1: I'm not going to me to me, that doesn't mean
16:10
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily a killer. What do you guess? Well,
16:16
Speaker 1: the new information and the new sketch that came out
16:19
Speaker 1: in April, you know, because I get asked that question.
16:22
Speaker 1: You know, how how do we get here? Now we've
16:23
Speaker 1: been going for two over two years. Well, what that
16:26
Speaker 1: has done? And really we were at crime Con last year.
16:30
Speaker 1: We're sat down with you. Tips come come pouring in
16:33
Speaker 1: after crime Con. All that information has allowed this case
16:37
Speaker 1: to move to the next step. There may be another
16:39
Speaker 1: step after this one. These were in These sketches are
16:42
Speaker 1: taken from eight witness people who saw people out there
16:45
Speaker 1: in that area around the bridge and are on the
16:47
Speaker 1: trails that day. Obviously the picture that is on the
16:53
Speaker 1: flyer and if you actually go out there. We've released
16:56
Speaker 1: a couple of steps of him walking like two and
16:58
Speaker 1: a half steps that be it captured on a video.
17:02
Speaker 1: That's the guy we want to talk to. We haven't
17:04
Speaker 1: talked to that guy yet, you know. And so the pictures,
17:08
Speaker 1: the first one that was out there. We've collected enough
17:10
Speaker 1: information and there was over forty thousand tips on that,
17:14
Speaker 1: so that information is allowed police or an investigators the
17:17
Speaker 1: law law enforcement group to either make a determination that
17:22
Speaker 1: that first sketch that while that guy may have been there,
17:24
Speaker 1: may not have been in the area that date. But
17:26
Speaker 1: they've collected enough information that says we got an information
17:30
Speaker 1: now that says this is our guy, and they think
17:33
Speaker 1: he's more local as if you noticed, Doug Carter made
17:35
Speaker 1: that in his press release. Now if I if I
17:40
Speaker 1: was local, I wouldn't be anymore after they're released something
17:43
Speaker 1: like this. So that's why we're here. You know, he
17:45
Speaker 1: could be anywhere you travel across the US, you know,
17:48
Speaker 1: I mean we both drove all the way down here
17:50
Speaker 1: from Indiana, you know, a day. So where could he be?
17:56
Speaker 1: Could be here, could be there. I don't know. Do
17:59
Speaker 1: you believe that police could get any DNA could could
18:07
Speaker 1: get you said, there's DNA at every crime scene that's
18:10
Speaker 1: what they tell me. That's true. Jes Scott explained there
18:14
Speaker 1: is DNA at every crime scene, whether you get it
18:16
Speaker 1: or not. Yeah, there is, and it depends upon how
18:19
Speaker 1: you process the scene. Keep in mind DNA is very
18:22
Speaker 1: very fragile. But again, on the other hand, it can
18:26
Speaker 1: be resilient and that's heavily dependent upon how crime scenes
18:29
Speaker 1: are processed. My belief is that great care, great care
18:36
Speaker 1: was taken on the part of the investigators at the scene.
18:39
Speaker 1: This is not something that they rushed. It was not
18:42
Speaker 1: something that they just kind of haphazardly went through. They
18:46
Speaker 1: took their time in collecting this. What do you mean
18:49
Speaker 1: by resilient, Well, depended upon where the DNA is, okay,
18:54
Speaker 1: and no disrespect in any way. But if the DNA
18:59
Speaker 1: is literally on their person, on the bodies, okay you can.
19:06
Speaker 1: But that's the reality is is that the touch DNA
19:09
Speaker 1: is if you guys will think about this, if you'll
19:11
Speaker 1: put like talcum powder in your hands and take it
19:14
Speaker 1: and go like this, that's sluft dead skin cells. We
19:17
Speaker 1: lose I don't know, one hundred thousand per day, so
19:21
Speaker 1: you're dropping DNA all the time. So it's very very
19:24
Speaker 1: fragile and it can be lost. But if we're talking
19:27
Speaker 1: about a biological deposit, let's say any kind of body fluid,
19:31
Speaker 1: that's a bit more resilient. Also, if everybody right now
19:34
Speaker 1: will just look at your fingernails, okay, anything that's beneath
19:38
Speaker 1: your fingernails can latch on and these can be collected.
19:42
Speaker 1: At this point, though we don't know what the police have.
19:47
Speaker 1: They have alluded to the fact that they do in
19:50
Speaker 1: fact have DNA sample that's been alluded to, but we
19:53
Speaker 1: don't know in what form that is. Crime stories with
20:06
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, nobody saw any struggle of him pulling the girls.
20:20
Speaker 1: If there were other people out there walking or jogging
20:23
Speaker 1: or riding their bikes. Nobody saw a struggle ensue at
20:27
Speaker 1: all on the trestle bridge. Do we know I'm not
20:32
Speaker 1: aware of You know, the police have not told you
20:36
Speaker 1: anything along that lines. Then how do you think, other
20:39
Speaker 1: than showing a weapon underneath all those clothes, did he
20:44
Speaker 1: get them to follow him. You also got to remember
20:48
Speaker 1: you're talking about a thirteen and fourteen year old girl.
20:51
Speaker 1: A grown man could be pretty intimidating in my opinion,
20:55
Speaker 1: to somebody, Nancy, Can I just say one more thing
20:59
Speaker 1: relative to this point. We're talking about a grown man.
21:02
Speaker 1: All right, y'all heard his voice? Okay, Now, one thing
21:06
Speaker 1: that came out that they remember the little what was
21:08
Speaker 1: the little piece that they added? What did it? Was
21:11
Speaker 1: a directive? What did he say? He said? Guys? And
21:14
Speaker 1: if you listen to that very carefully, you know I'm
21:17
Speaker 1: a daddy, all right. So guys, he's trying to get
21:20
Speaker 1: somebody's attention, guys like, I want your attention. This is
21:24
Speaker 1: what I want you to do. And then he says, downhill, downhill, guys, downhill.
21:30
Speaker 1: You've got a grown man talking to these little angels
21:33
Speaker 1: out there. They're by their self in this environment. He's
21:36
Speaker 1: given them a directive, and that's you know, that's what
21:39
Speaker 1: I think. I don't I don't know that he's willed
21:42
Speaker 1: in a knife or anything like that. You got a
21:44
Speaker 1: grown man. It's telling them to do this. I'm likely
21:46
Speaker 1: they're gonna be compliant. Tell me about them. What would
21:50
Speaker 1: their nature be? Would they if they were told by
21:53
Speaker 1: an adult to do something? Would they do it? Or
21:55
Speaker 1: would they have known enough to run or fight? What
22:00
Speaker 1: are what were the natures of Abigail and Liberty? Well,
22:05
Speaker 1: one thing that always sticks in my mind as they
22:07
Speaker 1: stuck together. We don't know the events other than the
22:15
Speaker 1: guys down the hill. They stuck together, and um, you know,
22:21
Speaker 1: we've lost a lot of a lot of sleep trying
22:24
Speaker 1: to run that scenario through our minds. Um, so you
22:30
Speaker 1: can um think about there there could have been a weapon.
22:35
Speaker 1: We don't know, Um at that moment. Why we know
22:41
Speaker 1: there were the other people visiting the trails that day.
22:44
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's been uh you know, we know
22:49
Speaker 1: that there are people before and after that's documented. Um
22:54
Speaker 1: you know, so was this scouted? I mean at that
22:59
Speaker 1: moment that location, that person looked around and knew that
23:04
Speaker 1: within I sight that there was nobody present. We don't
23:09
Speaker 1: know did he already have a grasp for one of
23:12
Speaker 1: the girls. And also they were up on a trestle.
23:17
Speaker 1: What Effie had said, I'll push you off, Whitten need
23:22
Speaker 1: a weapon? Or do you think that Abby Liberty would
23:27
Speaker 1: have gone along just because he ordered them to My opinion,
23:31
Speaker 1: for for Livy, she would have tried to give the
23:34
Speaker 1: guy space, like just leave me alone. You know, I mean,
23:36
Speaker 1: I'm in my own world. I don't need you in
23:38
Speaker 1: my space. But my first reaction is as she said
23:45
Speaker 1: down the hills. She probably if I have told her that,
23:47
Speaker 1: she said, you go down the hill. I'm not going
23:49
Speaker 1: down here. You know, I don't know if she would have,
23:52
Speaker 1: you know, said that to him or not. But you know,
23:55
Speaker 1: like Joe was saying, you got a man who's a
23:58
Speaker 1: stranger to them. Um, that that gives a directive, you know,
24:04
Speaker 1: a direct order or direct you know, order to do something.
24:08
Speaker 1: Guys down the hill? Um, I think you know, like
24:14
Speaker 1: I said, there's age and their innocence. Um, they were scared.
24:19
Speaker 1: They were scared. I could just said one thing, and
24:26
Speaker 1: in my mind, the video was taken before the command.
24:32
Speaker 1: I have no validation of that, or nobody's ever given
24:36
Speaker 1: me a timeline. But if, if, if the video or
24:41
Speaker 1: the picture was taken prior to the command, what caused Libby?
24:47
Speaker 1: What did what did she sense? What did she feel?
24:50
Speaker 1: What did she see that made something you know click?
24:57
Speaker 1: You know the reason each one of these details are
25:00
Speaker 1: so important, every detail. I remember a guy that we
25:04
Speaker 1: all knew to be a serial killer, and I had
25:08
Speaker 1: a chance of getting him on one case. We never
25:13
Speaker 1: knew the name of the victim. Joe Scott, you and
25:15
Speaker 1: I have talked about unidentified bodies all across our country.
25:19
Speaker 1: Never knew her name, still don't know her name, but
25:23
Speaker 1: I could thought I could get him. On one case,
25:27
Speaker 1: there was an ear ring found at the same when
25:30
Speaker 1: her body was found, and the earring bothered me. And
25:37
Speaker 1: from that one ear ring being at the location it
25:41
Speaker 1: was in proximity to her body, we figured out how
25:46
Speaker 1: the whole thing went down, that she was lord there,
25:51
Speaker 1: and that the struggle and the murder took place there.
25:55
Speaker 1: We figured out like fifteen different points about the attack
26:00
Speaker 1: and the murder from that one earring and where it
26:05
Speaker 1: laid in proximity to her body. So what I'm trying
26:09
Speaker 1: to say is one fact, what detail, believe it or not,
26:14
Speaker 1: can crack your case wide open. Like this, he says
26:17
Speaker 1: he thinks the video was before the command. It matters.
26:22
Speaker 1: We may not know why it matters, but it will.
26:25
Speaker 1: It's a tiny piece of a puzzle that doesn't make
26:28
Speaker 1: any sense right now. So every detail masters. I say
26:33
Speaker 1: this on the show all the time again, judicial perspective.
26:35
Speaker 1: Trust your gut, and I believe in kids guts, and
26:39
Speaker 1: I think I agree with that. I think the video
26:41
Speaker 1: was taken first because I think that she probably sensed evil.
26:44
Speaker 1: She probably sensed something's wrong, something's amiss. She's a hero
26:47
Speaker 1: for doing that. I don't care what aid you are.
26:49
Speaker 1: Trust your gut because I see it on the bench
26:51
Speaker 1: all the time. You're usually right. Lately, we've gotten the
26:54
Speaker 1: idea that the police are going in a new direction, Lee,
26:58
Speaker 1: do you know anything? A new direction? They absolutely are
27:03
Speaker 1: with the release of the new mug shot, you guys
27:06
Speaker 1: may notice it looks totally different from the first one.
27:09
Speaker 1: He looks younger, much younger, and police said that this
27:13
Speaker 1: man could be anywhere from a young as eighteen to
27:16
Speaker 1: forty years old if he's a If he is that young,
27:20
Speaker 1: that could explain why we don't have him in Aphists
27:22
Speaker 1: correct the finger print data bank, because ash one of
27:29
Speaker 1: your expertise is juvenile law, none of that would have
27:34
Speaker 1: been made public even if it exists. No, that's right.
27:37
Speaker 1: If they commit any crime prior to eighteen, throughout the nation,
27:40
Speaker 1: they don't have a record once they become an adult,
27:42
Speaker 1: except unless it's aggravated circumstances. But yeah, police think that
27:47
Speaker 1: this man, whoever he is, has some kind of ties.
27:50
Speaker 1: He knows Delphi, he knows the community, He knew how
27:53
Speaker 1: that bridge worked. So it's somebody that could be hiding
27:58
Speaker 1: in plane sight. How can you hide and plain site
28:02
Speaker 1: in a town of three thousand people because it's somebody
28:05
Speaker 1: that they don't suspect. Maybe a family man, could be
28:08
Speaker 1: a police officer, could be a firefighter. It's somebody that
28:12
Speaker 1: nobody is suspecting. What about that, guys, all our good possibilities.
28:20
Speaker 1: I wish I had the answer. Why are they saying
28:23
Speaker 1: it's a local? Why do you believe they are now
28:26
Speaker 1: focusing on a local. I think it's based on the
28:30
Speaker 1: information they have that they're not sharing with us, you know.
28:33
Speaker 1: I mean obviously that they don't They don't share much
28:36
Speaker 1: more with us and what's out there in the public.
28:38
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, even as family, it's really
28:42
Speaker 1: about protecting the integrity investigation. And I know people, you know,
28:45
Speaker 1: we all know what that's about, because that is critical
28:48
Speaker 1: to when comes time when we get this guy arrested,
28:51
Speaker 1: that we're able to actually put him where he needs
28:53
Speaker 1: to be, which is behind bars, you know, and we
28:57
Speaker 1: don't want to be able to, you know, have any
28:59
Speaker 1: miss apps there, you know, with two you know, releasing
29:02
Speaker 1: more information like they did, which was a new sketch,
29:05
Speaker 1: which was another part of the voice command, which was
29:08
Speaker 1: taken a couple of steps across the bridge. You know
29:11
Speaker 1: that's showing more cards in your hand, you know from
29:13
Speaker 1: the from the law investigators, you know that from their perspective,
29:17
Speaker 1: they're putting more cards out on the table. I don't
29:19
Speaker 1: know how many cards they got up their sleeve yet,
29:21
Speaker 1: but obviously they're not going to lay them all out there.
29:38
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, what's your question, dear? So
29:43
Speaker 1: with the new I guess DNA, with like genealogy and
29:46
Speaker 1: all of that, is that kind of coming into play?
29:49
Speaker 1: And also when I hear the directive guys down the hill,
29:52
Speaker 1: I think it's very informal, and I think that it's
29:56
Speaker 1: if they were comfortable enough to follow that directive, they
29:59
Speaker 1: may have been for million or with that person. So
30:01
Speaker 1: I wonder if that kind of false, if that's ever
30:03
Speaker 1: come to mind for you guys. As far as the
30:09
Speaker 1: DNA and analysis, the police departments and law enforcements, they
30:14
Speaker 1: have not told us how and which method is what's
30:20
Speaker 1: being done. Okay, they're again, like Mike said, it's not
30:25
Speaker 1: like you see on DV. Okay, we're in fifty minutes.
30:30
Speaker 1: It's a done deal. So you know, we're not brought
30:35
Speaker 1: in every week and debrief done the three thousand tips
30:40
Speaker 1: that have come in, and we're talking to this person
30:43
Speaker 1: and this person. It's not like that. So our hope,
30:48
Speaker 1: with the technology that's out there and with the message
30:54
Speaker 1: that law enforcement has delivered to the families, we have
30:58
Speaker 1: faith that they're using utilizing all the tools that are available.
31:04
Speaker 1: Many Yeah, it's not that you just look up the
31:12
Speaker 1: mom and the dad. It's not like that. I had
31:14
Speaker 1: Paul Holes explained it one time we were on Doctor Oz.
31:18
Speaker 1: I had to go corner him. I'm like, what did
31:20
Speaker 1: you just say? And it's a whole thing. They go
31:24
Speaker 1: all the way back to like over one hundred years,
31:28
Speaker 1: because they've got to match up mom and dad all
31:32
Speaker 1: the way back, and then it comes way down like ten, twelve,
31:36
Speaker 1: fifteen descendants. It takes a long time to do what
31:41
Speaker 1: to do the genealogy matchup. So for all we know,
31:44
Speaker 1: they are doing it, we're trying to do it, trying
31:47
Speaker 1: to Could we be remiss to assume that they didn't
31:51
Speaker 1: fight when they were going down? I mean he gave
31:54
Speaker 1: a directive. Was the round messed up there? And didn't
31:59
Speaker 1: they try to say? I mean we don't have that information.
32:02
Speaker 1: I think we're assuming they just went down and worked
32:04
Speaker 1: in placing. They might not have been and something could
32:08
Speaker 1: have happened right there at the beginning of the hill
32:11
Speaker 1: and then made them say we better go down. I mean,
32:15
Speaker 1: I just keep hearing like, oh, they went down, they
32:18
Speaker 1: went down, And I don't know if we can assume that.
32:20
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a struggle there or not
32:24
Speaker 1: that information. I don't know if it's been collected or known.
32:28
Speaker 1: You know, obviously there's somebody that knows. There's three people
32:30
Speaker 1: in the world that knows what happened. Two of them
32:33
Speaker 1: are gone. We know that's at least one of the person.
32:35
Speaker 1: Do you think that day they have known the purple?
32:38
Speaker 1: I find that doubtful because you probably would have known
32:42
Speaker 1: the purple they needed purple. Yeah, And or if, in
32:46
Speaker 1: my opinion, if Libby knew the person, why would she
32:49
Speaker 1: have recorded Like it'd be like should have recording it? It
32:53
Speaker 1: It would have been no, Hey, Sam, what are you
32:54
Speaker 1: doing out here today? Yes? So, is there anything that
32:59
Speaker 1: you want us to know that you wish people would
33:02
Speaker 1: ask you, which you just don't get a chance to say.
33:04
Speaker 1: It's a great question. Um. The thing I think that
33:08
Speaker 1: I would like most most everybody to help us with
33:10
Speaker 1: just share this information. We've got two things going on here. Um.
33:15
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know, but we're building a
33:16
Speaker 1: memorial park for the girls, you know, because at some
33:20
Speaker 1: point we're gonna get this case. We're gonna get this guy,
33:23
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be over. We're gonna close it, you know.
33:25
Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna put this guy behind bars. It's
33:27
Speaker 1: not gonna bring our girls back. So we're building a
33:29
Speaker 1: memorial park on the other side over here, and we're
33:32
Speaker 1: keeping those separate. I mean, it's a two prong approach.
33:34
Speaker 1: But we're trying to keep him separate for a reason
33:36
Speaker 1: because the memorial park will live on this case. You know,
33:39
Speaker 1: this guy will go away. Um yeah, so, UM, I
33:45
Speaker 1: don't want to give you false but I know it's
33:47
Speaker 1: like Abby and Libby dot org and that that site
33:52
Speaker 1: is devoted to the case Abby and Libby dot org. Hey. UM,
34:00
Speaker 1: I was wondering, now, with all the forensic technology, with
34:03
Speaker 1: the new audio and any of the audio, can you
34:06
Speaker 1: do any analysis like dialect or um? You know, can
34:11
Speaker 1: they tell anything from the audio? Yeah? Regionalized linguistics. The
34:16
Speaker 1: FBI has an entire section that's devoted to that where
34:19
Speaker 1: they listen to tapes, you know. I mean, you guys
34:21
Speaker 1: can tell where I'm from, the South, all right, So
34:24
Speaker 1: and that's kind of broad, but you can you can
34:26
Speaker 1: kind of keep it in a nutshell, So yes, kind
34:31
Speaker 1: of they can. I think it's what he's trying to say,
34:34
Speaker 1: Can you guys give me what you want out there,
34:37
Speaker 1: what you want everyone to hear. I think one of
34:40
Speaker 1: the things that that I struggle with trying to understand
34:43
Speaker 1: is so the reward is over two hundred thousand dollars,
34:48
Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot of people that have
34:52
Speaker 1: rated out people for a lot less than that, and
34:58
Speaker 1: so I'm quite puzzled. And Um, within a few days
35:02
Speaker 1: of the murder, uh that the uh, this reward fund
35:06
Speaker 1: got started. And I can remember, you know, seeing the
35:10
Speaker 1: news and hearing on the news how that thing's just
35:12
Speaker 1: ramping up. Jim Mersey that that owns the Innapolis Colts
35:16
Speaker 1: uh pledged a bunch of money. Uh. The punter UM
35:20
Speaker 1: can't think of what his name. He's retired now, Um,
35:23
Speaker 1: you know, put up some money. UM, And I think
35:26
Speaker 1: just escalated, and I'm sitting there and thinking, Okay, this,
35:29
Speaker 1: We're gonna get this guy. It's just we're gonna get him,
35:31
Speaker 1: you know, because we're not talking about five thousand bucks.
35:34
Speaker 1: We're you know, at that time was like one hundred
35:36
Speaker 1: and twenty one hundred and fifty. And I mean this
35:38
Speaker 1: thing is just rolling and and I am just it
35:42
Speaker 1: just puzzles me that that that that's the life changing
35:45
Speaker 1: amount of money, where somebody could you know, rat out
35:48
Speaker 1: this person and collect their money and start a new life. Okay.
35:54
Speaker 1: I'm just puzzled that with the circle that somebody like
35:57
Speaker 1: this must run with, you know, criminals, I you know,
36:02
Speaker 1: um that that's a different culture juries you ain't hanging
36:08
Speaker 1: out with nuts and praises of virgins. You know. How
36:12
Speaker 1: much as the reward now, well, according to this flyer,
36:14
Speaker 1: it's two hundred twenty five thousand. That's a good to
36:18
Speaker 1: get out there, two hundred quarter of a million dollars.
36:25
Speaker 1: And it's like my way says, well, not everybody does
36:27
Speaker 1: good because there's money involved, Okay, because because we know
36:30
Speaker 1: there's there's one evil person that that's turned our life
36:34
Speaker 1: upside down, but we also know that there's a lot
36:37
Speaker 1: of good people and our families have reached blessings from
36:41
Speaker 1: people literally around the world, you know, that have reached
36:44
Speaker 1: out to us, and um, hardly a week goes by
36:48
Speaker 1: where families we don't get a card, we don't get
36:50
Speaker 1: a letter, we don't we don't get something, you know,
36:52
Speaker 1: where somebody's just saying hey, like the lady said, hey,
36:54
Speaker 1: we're praying for it, you know, and and um, we
36:58
Speaker 1: feel that, and we sense that, and in honestly, that's
37:02
Speaker 1: what helps us just keep going, you know, to the
37:05
Speaker 1: next event and the next day. Nothing's ever going to
37:07
Speaker 1: bring our girls back, and these girls deserve justice. Our family,
37:11
Speaker 1: our community. Continue to share this information out there, continue
37:15
Speaker 1: to make this guy's life smaller. This his whole world's
37:17
Speaker 1: got to be smaller. It confuses me on how even
37:21
Speaker 1: people close to our community, meaning they live within fifty
37:25
Speaker 1: or sixty miles one hundred miles, haven't even heard of
37:27
Speaker 1: the case, believe it or not. And we just need
37:30
Speaker 1: that right person to say, you know what that looks
37:33
Speaker 1: like my great aunt's cousins, boy girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever. Somebody's
37:39
Speaker 1: gonna look at that and say, huh, I do recognize
37:42
Speaker 1: that I used to work with him, used to live
37:44
Speaker 1: down the road. He comes in the diner. You know,
37:46
Speaker 1: I see this guy turn that in. Somebody out there
37:49
Speaker 1: knows something. I can almost you know, I can't guarantee,
37:53
Speaker 1: but in my heart, somebody out there knows this guy.
37:56
Speaker 1: He's acting different, acting strange. He may be even acting
37:59
Speaker 1: the same. Maye they know something. You know, something's just up.
38:02
Speaker 1: Eight hundred three eight two seven five three seven repeat
38:06
Speaker 1: eight hundred three A two seven five three seven and
38:11
Speaker 1: eight four four four to five nine five seven eight
38:14
Speaker 1: six eight four four four to five nine five seven
38:17
Speaker 1: eighty six. And I know it's contrue to everything that
38:21
Speaker 1: many people hold in here, But I'm going to say
38:24
Speaker 1: a prayer right now, Father, please bless these families and
38:28
Speaker 1: bring us justice. Amen. Greg's Crime Story is signing off