Latest / The Hissing Feline / Cats as therapy animals? Research findings about the possibilities

Transcript

Cats as therapy animals? Research findings about the possibilities · The Hissing Feline

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Hissing Feline Podcast, a weekly program that is about everything cats.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: The Hissing Feline features experts and other cat aficionados who share their knowledge and perspectives about dealing with felines, from strays and ferals to adoption, health, and cat psychology.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: We hope the topics give you helpful and interesting insight into the world of cats.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here is the host of the Hissing Feline, Clark Greer.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Most of us are familiar with therapy dogs that are specially trained to give comfort and emotional help to people in medical settings, schools, and care facilities.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: But did you know that cats might also offer the same benefits?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: My guest today is Dr.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Patricia Pendry.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: She's professor of human development in the College of Agriculture, Human and Natural Sciences at Washington State University.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: Her research examines human-animal interaction, including a study about cats as therapy animals, that we will hear more about on today's show.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Dr.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Pendry, it's a pleasure to have you with me on the episode of the Hissing Feline.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for having me.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to uh share some of my thoughts on cats as therapy animals.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and we're going to talk about that uh study that you co-authored here in just a minute.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Therapy animals are part of animal-assisted services known as AAS.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Could you talk about what that is and what the goals are of AAS?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, sure.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think first of all, you have to know that some of the definitions that we use, we still in the field like to argue about them a little bit.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we oftentimes talk about the sort of the global term of AAS, which would include a variety of different services.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: I myself often use the word intervention as well.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: But really, what we're talking about is a variety of different types of either programs or events that we organize specifically to facilitate interactions between humans and animals.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that can be for a variety of different purposes.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that may include therapy, but it may also just include a very short type of activity without a specific therapeutic purpose.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we're really talking about the group name of everything that we do to try and get humans and animals together.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell Human-cat interaction is more complex than just fluffy sitting on someone's lap.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: What can you tell me about cats in relationship to kind of how they work?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Well, so there's a little bit of a myth out there that we can't really train cats to engage in a therapeutic intervention.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not really true.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: So the ones that are trained are one that you know really allow the individual to pick the cat up, for example, to have the cat on their lap, or maybe the cat themselves will invite themselves up on someone's lap and sit there quietly.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the the main component here is that they are sociable, that they enjoy social interactions with humans, they enjoy even social interactions with other cats, and they don't mind being, I don't want to use the word manhandled, but let's just say they don't mind being touched, pet, and even picked up.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think those are some, you know, characteristics that we can encourage in in cats.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: And many times when we work with therapy cats, therapy animals, that that touch and that interaction is a key component.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: But of course it depends a little bit on who you're working with, right?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: If these are the elderly or individuals who maybe have some cognitive impairment, that would be different than your group of college students preparing for an exam.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we're trying to really shape it towards what that population is and what their needs are and their characteristics.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: But those skills that I mentioned or those characteristics work well in a variety of settings.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: I like the wording at the end of the article about the study that I read.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it's if any animal could turn lounging and receiving affection into a legitimate career, it would be a cat.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's a really great perspective.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you were talking about common notions about cats, but really they're pretty complex animals and they have actually a lot to offer people.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: I totally agree.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's sort of unfortunate that cats, I think more often than dogs, have a little bit of a reputation to be finicky and to be picky and to be aloof and sort of not necessarily the most enjoyable to interact with.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a particular kind of person who has that attitude.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: But when we're talking about therapy animals, oftentimes people don't think about cats.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it really takes the right kind of cat.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with that.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: However, there are more of those around than than we often give them credit for.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And all it is is it takes a little patience to identify the cats who might enjoy this and to also put them in the kinds of context and provide them with the opportunities to make it enjoyable.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: And choice is a big part of that.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that should be part of interactions with dogs, too.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: We shouldn't, you know, f kind of force the interaction to go on longer than we would like, or to, you know, we have to respect the animal as a as a participant as well.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I think um cats oftentimes end up being perceived um as being more picky of who they want to interact with, as maybe being a little finicky or more aloof.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I personally think that oftentimes it's the certain kind of individual who just doesn't have the patience to really, you know, observe that cat and make that connection and sort of make this a two-way interaction.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think cats are just as suitable as dogs, provided you have the right kind of animal.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's true for dogs as well.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's just that oftentimes dogs, we bring dogs into therapy settings more commonly than cats.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it just takes a little bit more time to identify the right kind of cat and to facilitate interactions that they enjoy, as opposed to, you know, sort of taking the animal's characteristics as something that's be managed, as opposed to, you know, taking um sort of advantage of those wonderful qualities where maybe they are a little bit more picky and maybe they do require a little more patience.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And those are sometimes skills or therapeutic components that actually are really important to encourage in individuals.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh therapy dogs have certain traits.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I was talking earlier about people being pretty well acquainted with those, but cats can also have some of the similar types of traits.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: What are those types of things that they might have?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: I would say probably first and foremost, it's a sort of inclination to be sociable, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: To seek out interactions with humans or even with other animals, right?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: To be tolerant of other animals present.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: But it's that sort of engaging in pro-social behavior, being curious, stepping out to approach an individual.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the kinds of traits that we really value in dogs that we like.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: And those are traits that cats who enjoy animal-assisted interventions also have.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: And those are the cats that are oftentimes sort of selected or um, you know, more prominent in those kinds of settings.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're they're social, they're out there, they want to engage with individuals.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: And those are the those are the traits that therapy cats would have in common then.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: And and those are some of the things that we're going to talk about your research study here in just a little bit.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I I don't want to get quite into that, but there are traits that therapy cats do have in common, and that could lead to potential using a feline in a therapy setting.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think social is one of them, but there are other traits as well.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and also I think if you just purely think about how you interact with a cat, there's something about having to be maybe a little bit more gentle where there's a huge payoff if that animal selects you and stays around and lets you pet them.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: I always feel special when they let me, you know?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, right.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they they have this, they have this kind of intuition.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, it's like, do I trust that person or not?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: I always feel blessed that the cat actually likes me.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't agree more.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it's actually an important part of the therapeutic impact of cats.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: It is special.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but not all cats fit as therapy cats.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: So we're not saying that, well, any any cat could do this.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: It takes a particular type of cat.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that's true, but you know what?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's true for dogs as well.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: It takes a certain kind of dog as well.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Not every animal is suitable as a therapy animal.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think oftentimes when we think of dogs and we think of dogs training and and training particular kind of behaviors, sometimes dogs, I think, are a little bit more willing to obey, even when they may not like something.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whereas I think even though cats can be trained, I think when you start to engage in ways that they're kind of done, they are less likely, I think, to obey and stick around as a as a in in that interaction.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it does take an animal um who enjoys these kinds of interactions and who might be trained, but who also um is able to communicate their needs.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I understand from reading about uh cats in therapy is that there tends to be more of that happening with felines in Europe than in the US.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um is that is that gonna actually be more of a thing here in the States?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to be honest, I want you to take that comment with a little bit of a grain of salt because I think we have also, as researchers, put ourselves in situations um where there are settings where cats are you know present in sort of therapeutic roles.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say that cats tend to also be maybe a little bit more present in the public sphere in Europe.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I think uh it's not so much of a stretch to start including them.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas in the US, I think we we are still uh just a little bit more hesitant to just encounter cats in all kinds of public settings.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you you co-authored a research study that I mentioned earlier.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna give the name of the study.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's the behavioral profile differences between cats in animal assisted services, that's AAS, and non-AAS cats using the fee bark uh scale in Flanders.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very excited to share some of the research that I've conducted with my co-authors and colleagues, um, Dr.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: De La Nouille from the University of Louvain in Belgium, as well as um co-authors, Dr.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Moons and Dr.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Peters.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's really been a joy to put this project together.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: What are your goals in uh doing this type of research?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I would say my first comment would be that um this is this study was an early and preliminary examination, first and foremost, to in a way try and understand what the kinds of traits are that cats have, and particular kinds of cats who cats who engage in this kind of um you know work.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in truth, in part because there's uh this notion that cats aren't suitable, we wanted to kind of examine that a little bit more closely and say, well, there are cats involved in animal assisted services.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: So let's find out what kind of traits do they have?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: And are those traits different from those cats who are not in this kind of in this line of work, shall I say?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I think first and foremost, we want to I think open up people's minds about the types of behaviors that cats may have or may not have, and whether those are suitable for this kind of work.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's step number one.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: The other component is if we better understand that there are differences and then we understand what kind of traits there are that have meaningful um implications for interacting with these kinds of cats in ways that are similar to dogs, for example, we also can then better incorporate cats into settings where therapy is being conducted.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're not ready to use this measure to sort of select cats.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what we're doing.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: But we're just simply taking some early steps to open the minds to try and understand what behaviors are suitable and present, and then to um, you know, think about the ways in which we can expand animal-assisted intervention to people who may not want to interact with dogs.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And there are plenty, actually.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: There are quite a few people who would prefer to interact with cats that they never get to because they say, well, it's always therapy dogs.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we're missing out.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're missing a large population who would potentially be interested and helped by interacting with cats, um, and therefore interacting um with animals that otherwise maybe they wouldn't participate.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: You're listening to the Hissing Feline Podcast.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Clark Greer, and joining me today is Dr.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: Patricia Pendry, professor of human development in the College of Agriculture, Human, and Natural Sciences at Washington State University.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: Please join us for the next segment.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna talk a little bit about uh caveats for using cats in therapy and some things to consider for that.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: We'll be right back after this message.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everybody.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Sherry Dean Farmley, and I'm the author of the Prescott Family Chronicles.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Book five in the series, and the truth shall set you free, recently became available on Amazon.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Madison Prescott was a young woman who was trapped into a false sense of guilt over the death of a very dear friend.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Her uncle Johnny Prescott was a man who believed a lie his entire life until a special letter came by, and he found out that the truth really did set him free.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you'll visit my author website, stparmalayauthor.com, or check out my books on Amazon.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for your support.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Bye for now.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: You're listening to the Hissing Feeling Podcast.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Clark Reer.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: With today's guest, Dr.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Patricia Pendry, Professor of Human Development at Washington State University.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: We've been talking about therapy cats and promising areas of research in that area.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: And we were just talking about a new study that will talk more about maybe characteristics of cats that could have effects on uh individuals in relationship to therapy animals.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so my colleagues at the University of uh Leuven in Belgium and I um interviewed a very large number of individuals, all associated with um, you know, close to 20 different universities, um, and these included both faculty members, they included students, um, you know, people from administration.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we sort of wanted to understand, hey, if we are indeed um open-minded about incorporating cats into therapeutic settings at universities, um, you know, what are some of the things we need to consider?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the components that people might find really favorable about cats?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: What are some elements maybe that they don't like as much or that they have concerns about?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And are there some specific policies that we should potentially um you know put in before we can safely do that?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: So um and we just asked people open questions, you know, we didn't use necessarily a preconceived scale.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: We just said, hey, tell us what you think.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they did.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and what was interesting is that when we were talking about cats, there probably one of the main concerns people brought up was allergies.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: They were concerned that, you know, there are other individuals um on campuses that um, you know, may like cats, but they may have um allergic reactions.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you contain and maintain these spaces where cats um, you know, are present without um compromising the health of other individuals?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something that came up.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: That was a concern.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the other component that came up was um just the fact that people were concerned about the welfare of the animal themselves.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: They said, I think they believe that cats may be a little bit more sensitive than, for example, dogs.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so they often would say things like, gosh, I'm just concerned that people are gonna crowd around this animal that everybody wants to pet.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, maybe it would be hard for the cat to sort of, you know, feel safe.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like, how do we do this in an ethical way?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so those were some issues that came up.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, we can solve those, right?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: They asked for some very clear guidelines.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Things like, hey, somebody has to be responsible for that cat.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: We can't just bring a cat to campus, let it loose, and you know, everybody hunker down and and and interact with them.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: There has to be somebody responsible to manage that animal's uh movements and also their well-being.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was really interesting to see that people who really thought about it.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: They they came up with some shared concerns, but they also came up with solutions.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And what we were excited about is that there were very easy solutions to be had to these concerns.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: We can do it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh recently, I I had a guest on this show who's a veterinarian, and he talked about stress in cats.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: And um I'm guessing some cats are probably more susceptible to those things, but those are really good points, especially when you put a cat in a very unfamiliar situation with a lot of people.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: And even if the cat does not mind being handled, there's probably a point at which the cat's maybe done with that for a day.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think um, you know, there are quite a few organizations um who um register therapy animals, and that also involves some kind of training.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so their owners are really meant to be their animals' advocate.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that means that there are guidelines about how many hours a week an animal can um engage in a therapeutic intervention per day or per week.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's some guidelines about, you know, preventing crowding the animal.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's some thoughts about looking for particular kind of behaviors that might be indicative of the animal experiencing stress or maybe um you know needing a break.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have um quite some experience in working with a national organization in the United States called Pet Partners, and they do a wonderful job in registering handlers with their animals, and they have some very clear guidelines on how to protect the safety and well-being of those animals.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think similarly to what we expect from handlers and dogs, um, we can expect a similar kind of approach from handlers with cats.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now, there might be different behaviors that are indicative of stress, but the idea that the owners are their animals' advocate to ensure their well-being, I think that's something that's paramount, and we have to make sure that we respect that.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: Are there different types of cats with personalities for different types of therapy situations?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's a great question.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that cats in therapy have been incorporated to the extent where I can really with great um, you know, um knowledge, scientific knowledge, state that that's the case.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I do believe that we see that the cats who engage in therapeutic interactions tend to be the ones who are curious, sociable, and like being picked up.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's true for almost all of the interventions that they engage in.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um we see sometimes in places like, for example, um, you know, residential care facility, particularly with the elderly, that they have cats that are not necessarily contained on a leash.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: They might be um just freely walking around in the facility.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: They're kind of more like a pet um who becomes a resident, right?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a little bit different, even though there's a therapeutic effect.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really a scheduled intervention where the handler comes and takes that animal to different individuals.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Although that is also done at times in those kinds of settings.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it really depends a little bit on the kind of setting and the kind of animal that we're looking at.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why there needs to be training not only for the animal.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: But also for the owner to be able to intentionally have successful interventions with people who have specific needs that a that an animal could help them with.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this pertains to the human interaction that takes place as well.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Things are very different if you're working with a small child, maybe who's preparing for, you know, some kind of surgical procedure in a hospital.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the behavior of the handler can make a meaningful difference as well in the way in which they encourage the child maybe to interact with that animal.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's potentially a very different kind of interaction than we would see at a college campus where students are stressing out before the exam.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe the handler might just be there to sort of encourage the interaction and not necessarily engage in that much conversation.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we we see all kinds of approaches.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the the interventions that are most successful are the ones who are really geared towards the population that you're working with, the specific types of issues that they're hoping to deal with or to work with, and of course the setting and the animal itself.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: What's next in your research about uh cat human interaction, maybe even cat therapy?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have some things that you're thinking about?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we always talk about future research.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have uh maybe a couple of things you could share?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Searcher, you always have your dream project, right?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and a couple of years ago, we did a study where we looked at the effects of 10 minutes of petting and how it reduced cortisol levels in college students.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we did that with dogs and cats at the same time.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I would love to really do another sort of clinical type of trial where we really examine very closely the different kinds of interactions with cats that potentially have that physiological impact and really measure that and assess that and understand the dosage, for example.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how many minutes does it take, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Is it just sitting with a cat on your lap, or is the petting component really important?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's something that might be a little bit of a nerdy kind of question to pursue, but it's one that I'm very interested in.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: I hope uh the audience today has enjoyed the episode of the hissing feline to learn more about Dr.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: Pendry's research regarding cats as therapy animals.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to thank you, uh, Doctor, for being on today's show.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's been really interesting and I think very helpful for uh for people to hear about this.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so very much for having me.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Dr.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Pendry is professor of human development in the College of Agriculture, Human and Natural Sciences at Washington State University.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: Please follow the Hissing Feline podcast and share the program with other cat lovers.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Stop by again next week for another episode of the Hissing Feline.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: And remember to keep currying.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Content on the Hissing Feline Podcast is for information and entertainment purposes only, and is not intended to provide medical, veterinary, or legal advice.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Please consult your veterinarian and local and state authorities before dealing with feral and stray cats.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Opinions expressed are those of the hosts and guests and not necessarily those of Duracho Cat Media LLC.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: References to products or services do not imply an endorsement.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: The Hissing Feline podcast is a production of Duracho Cat Media LLC and has been blessed by our rescue cats, Bridget and Maddie.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: All content is used with permission or under fair use.