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Vietcetera Innovators Digest: 15 Harsh Truths About Life That Nobody Wants To Admit · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: porn, social media, video games as well.
0:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Those things have really created paralysis.
0:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really creating the death of men.
0:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And then now we're getting, you know, women in the workforce and women rising with education.
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's creating this uneven balance.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a shame of being Vietnamese growing up in the 70s and 80s and 90s in America.
0:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You look at movies and you look at billboards.
0:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And you just don't see masculine men.
0:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to stand out.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't get bigger and if you don't get faster, if you don't get better, you just lost.
0:39
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just gonna stay there.
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Growth feels like breaking Before it feels like improving You want to break these things and and go through it because otherwise you are not growing you don't know your limit You got to be able to break it break these records and break your body in order to tend to improve
1:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Vietnam Innovator's podcast.
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Howe.
1:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning in every single week, supporting the podcast and making this show possible.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're nearing our 400th episode of this podcast.
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for tuning in every single week.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And as we get to that milestone, and it's also the TED holiday coming up soon here in Vietnam.
1:23
[SPEAKER_01]: A few of the next episodes we're going to be sharing are a bit to the identity, all these things that we think about as humans, as human connections every day.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So not just the business stuff, but who we are as people, and we've decided as a team to kind of welcome one of our close friends of not only myself,
1:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So Kenneth is a dear friend of mine.
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He's visiting from Los Angeles.
1:50
[SPEAKER_01]: He's Vietnamese American.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Comes here all the time.
1:53
[SPEAKER_01]: He does a few things, but he's more well known currently for hosting the Vietnamese podcast.
1:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Go check it out on YouTube, Spotify, Apple.
2:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Ken, welcome to the studio.
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me, how I really appreciate it.
2:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And before we talk about this a little bit, Ken, I just realized maybe I'm intro for you as well.
2:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Quick one, and then we'll go into that.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I started the Vietnamese podcast over five years ago, and I'm in my sixth year right now.
2:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the beginning, I was really talking to both Vietnamese, people who only spoke Vietnamese, and Vietnamese Americans who spoke English only.
2:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was using that format to just
2:43
[SPEAKER_00]: get to know everybody.
2:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But over the years, I've realized that it really stores up the algorithm in a way that I didn't really like.
2:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've really kept the Vietnamese-American diaspora going.
2:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if I'm speaking to young people in French, in France, then we do it in English.
2:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's predominantly in English.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Every now and then I'll talk to somebody in Vietnamese and you know, I'll post it, but it's very rare now.
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I can interview in Vietnamese as many people
3:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably over 500 now, but live, I'm at probably 461 or something like that.
3:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the first time you're on one of our podcasts.
3:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, big thanks.
3:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't come out to Vietnam all the time.
3:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, just making time today, thanks so much.
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you got a lot of things going on.
3:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so today guys as I mentioned a bit of a special format today.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but instead of your normal kind of like business show, let's let's talk about something more personal.
3:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I've got here.
3:39
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I didn't read any of these before because if it was like, oh, how you should just like freestyle.
3:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
3:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yeah, why not?
3:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
3:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Why isn't like one of the better people to do that with.
3:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's called 15 harsh truths about life that nobody wants to admit.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So the idea is we're just going to I'm going to share each quote and then we're just going to talk about it.
4:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds good.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You ready?
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Ready.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Knock it out.
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so the first one is most people want change, but very few want to change.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: They want that outcome, not the transformation.
4:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that when people want to change, there's a technical side to changing.
4:21
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you change?
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you want a better body, like where do you start to really change the body, right?
4:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You're kind of like talking about yourself right now, right?
4:31
[SPEAKER_01]: How would people on camera or like Ken's chest size is so much bigger than how I was like, what the hell is he not doing?
4:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, what the thing is like,
4:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just being in the gym is a technical thing, but it's like, how do you get consistent?
4:46
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a technical thing.
4:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's its own department, I feel.
4:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like wanting, I get up at four every day, and I'm in the gym by five.
4:54
[SPEAKER_00]: How does that become part of who I am?
4:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I just turned 50, like a few days ago, and that consistency has to come from somewhere very technical, logging in your workouts.
5:06
[SPEAKER_00]: writing different affirmations and affirmations just like that really help you hammer that and that is developed over years.
5:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like yeah everybody wants to change but if you really want to change like you got to get really deep into the digging of the technical side of making that plan work.
5:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean going back to the quote to most people want that change very few actually
5:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it sounds like at least in some ways like, uh, you know, getting more fit, getting more healthy, like, you've done that.
5:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And just for the audience, you know, Ken, he used to be in the military, you know, done a lot of work that just involves a lot of like, even labor, right?
5:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a windows, business, or used to that just, you're out there, you're working with the folks, getting things done.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But you've also been like a sedentary lifestyle too.
5:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you've sat in front of a computer and recorded 500 podcasts.
6:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's not exactly healthy, one quote either.
6:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
6:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
6:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think enabled you to be one of those people to actually make that happen?
6:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what part of you?
6:13
[SPEAKER_00]: enable that it's some funny but it's shame shame yeah it's a shame of being Vietnamese growing up in the 70s and 80s and 90s in America you look at movies and you look at billboards and you just don't see masculine men
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you grew up in Asia, I think you don't think about that because it's homogenous societies, right?
6:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But the shame drove me to say, I need to stand out because in a sea of like white,
6:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Marines who are like six, two, six, four from Wisconsin.
6:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like a shrimp, you're like a tiny guy.
6:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't get bigger and if you don't get faster, if you don't get better, you just lost.
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just going to stay there.
6:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're going to stay there.
7:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, it was just a constant push.
7:04
[SPEAKER_00]: When I was, I joined at 17 and it really stuck with me for the rest of my life.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think the consequences of you just staying where you are would be?
7:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you mentioned you went through that transformation yourself and it's stuck with you for life.
7:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But you look at the average Asian male in America too.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not exactly like they joined the military.
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, some of them are like the nerdyest people in the world.
7:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I used to be one of those.
7:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We actually look at a photo of me when I was like 23.
7:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I was literally 10 kilos lighter, like 10 kilos.
7:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm 73 today, just as reference.
7:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I was skinny, I was like, holy moly, like I'm still skinny today, but back now I was just like, so what do you have to say to the listeners here today?
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the ones that maybe didn't go through that, like life chapter joined the Marines for not everyone does that, right?
7:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we focus on different things.
8:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the guys that you're talking about the Asian guys who are not focused on, like, you know, their physical, their their their appearance.
8:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I think
8:08
[SPEAKER_00]: They probably collect a lot more money.
8:11
[SPEAKER_00]: They're probably chasing money.
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: They're chasing positions, right?
8:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That gives them a level of access to different societies.
8:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I want a different access.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be welcomed everywhere.
8:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be welcomed in European society.
8:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be welcomed in white society.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to come to Vietnam and be welcomed in Vietnamese society.
8:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I've learned about that kind of access is you have to have that physical size.
8:35
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, that was really what
8:37
[SPEAKER_00]: change it when I walked in a room or when I walked down the street, I just need to have that presence.
8:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And the presence comes from like two hours in the gym daily eating correctly.
8:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like, you know, after this podcast, we're going to do like a boot camp by Ken.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have like 50 people sign up for it, including yet our producer.
8:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're just going to do like a like a former military drill run by you.
9:01
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
9:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay cool.
9:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's but it's
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I think everything starts with calisthenics, push-ups, pull-ups and dips.
9:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
9:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So you don't need a gym.
9:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need a gym.
9:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need a fancy, please don't.
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that fourth element is walking.
9:16
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can walk an hour and a half a day and you hit the push-ups, pull-ups and dips, and if you can keep raising those numbers as you age,
9:24
[SPEAKER_00]: then you're in good, you're going to be good shape.
9:25
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I've learned recently from a group of my friends.
9:28
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, nothing else matters.
9:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like lifting weights doesn't really matter.
9:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really the calisthenics.
9:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you do the calisthenics, yeah?
9:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So in Asia and particular, can I'm not sure if you're familiar with these terms.
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: In Japan, there's a term called Hikiko Mori.
9:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in Chinese, I forgot the Chinese word for it, but in English, it's called lying flat.
9:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are trends happening with young people today.
9:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like memes on the internet, okay?
9:53
[SPEAKER_01]: He kick-o more basically translates, and there's an estimated like 1.5 million Japanese affected by it.
9:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And in other places, there's a different word for it.
10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they have a U.S. as well and everywhere.
10:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they call themselves right in the U.S. or in the West.
10:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And he keep a more basically means that you're in reclusive, you just stay at home, you don't contribute in any way to society.
10:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you've almost given up on yourself and society as an extension.
10:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in China, lying flat means like to literally just stay in bed, like lie flat.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: lie on the floor, lie on the bed, because the whole like nine, nine, six culture and China was a thing and it's affecting a lot of people in the U.S. Vietnam probably to some extent, hopefully not as bad, but, you know, sure, some convenience maybe.
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's actually influencers in China who promote being lying flat.
10:50
[SPEAKER_01]: There's one creator.
10:51
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going around all the different cities in China, first tier, second tier, third tier cities, and rating them to be how appropriate is to live life.
11:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like an epidemic.
11:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I talk a lot with other CEOs about this too, because we talk a lot about youth and the future young people, and there's a lot to be optimistic about, but I think this particular trend, I don't know if it existed when you were,
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: growing up.
11:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's like two sides to this.
11:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's nothing wrong with line flat quote unquote.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you do it for a long time, I think you're going to get out of it.
11:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I don't think it's a permanent condition.
11:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you?
11:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have any, like, data, data or personal stories, so I mean, everyone kind of goes through it, you know, if you have a personal, you know, life event, you know, someone passed away in your family, you broke up, you know, something, you're obviously your motivation goes down, right, I think the consistency is, is what's key though.
11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: you know everyone's motivation will go up and down like yesterday it was like sky high after those two podcasts ever recorded that were amazing but before the podcast I was like oh man I don't really want to do it today I was like I was like not looking forward to it and then literally that morning it changed right away
12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But somehow, I know myself too.
12:11
[SPEAKER_01]: My consistency is pretty stable.
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, despite what happens in my day, I'm not gonna let it ruin me.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, you just gotta fight it out.
12:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think a lot of men who are lying down who are who've given up, I think they have to kind of go through that.
12:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's another problem, you've heard of Scott Galaway, right?
12:30
[SPEAKER_00]: He's talking a lot about,
12:32
[SPEAKER_00]: the absence of masculinity, not in a toxic way, but just in a wake up, make your bed way, right?
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the little things.
12:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that he brings up porn, brings up social media.
12:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that those things have really created paralysis, video games as well.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: All these digital products that we're consuming is really creating the death.
13:01
[SPEAKER_00]: of men and I don't know if it affects women the same way and then now we're getting you know women in the workforce and women you know rising with education it's creating this uneven balance I think with with young men and they they're losing hope and I think these ideas of masculinity in small rural towns not only in Vietnam but in America
13:22
[SPEAKER_00]: is hampering the growth of men to think in a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset.
13:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a lot to dress here.
13:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do a whole podcast series and just masculinity in American and Vietnam in the middle, you know, in the Midwest and because I think the close in the big cities and Hanoi and Saigon, it's different.
13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think when you're looking at the middle of Vietnam and the middle of the west, where you're not getting a lot of ideas going back and forth, I think that's where a lot of the problems are.
13:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot to think about, and it's a global thing, and yeah, let's move on here.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We're one out of 15.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if we're going to finish all 15.
14:00
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Second one, Ken.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So the quote is, you outgrow versions of yourself faster than you outgrow other people.
14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And that creates distance you can't explain.
14:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a story that you want to share about that particular case?
14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have many stories about growing friends that I thought that I was
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: right you think you're out growing and because what happens is I think you're there's modules of what you're growing into there's modules of like you know commerce and business that I stopped growing in and then I started growing into the more podcast world and art you know with the film and these guys were growing in the money world.
14:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But after 15 years of like, but the important thing is to keep in touch with everybody, not cut them off, right?
14:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though we're changing in different directions.
14:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I found myself needing advice from some of these guys.
14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would call them and we'd go to coffee and go to dinners and we would recindle.
14:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, these guys,
15:01
[SPEAKER_00]: surpass my understanding of the business for wherever we left off in the 90s.
15:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And they became close confidence in mind and they began to explain to me how to reshape and rethink and recalibrate the way I think about business.
15:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's important for young people to know if you're outgrowing somebody in this department, keep it on the low burner, keep these friends around, do not cut people off.
15:29
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the most.
15:32
[SPEAKER_00]: 25, 30 years of relationships, then you're like, oh my God, I have a whole plethora of books in my library.
15:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how I approach everything, right?
15:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you and I, there's things that, you know, we probably don't see eye to eye on, but I'm not gonna cut anybody off because I know in a few more years, we can both be beneficial to each other socially or on a deep level and a deep personal level, you know?
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever cut someone off?
15:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people walk away from me because I can be a little much, you know, I'm at that.
16:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But I haven't, maybe one time with a very different member, but I only let that go for two years.
16:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It was my decision.
16:13
[SPEAKER_00]: They kept calling me over and over, but then after a while I'm like, I can't keep moving like this.
16:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So we recundled since.
16:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think for my view, I mean for the honest, you know, Ken and I, we know each other fairly well.
16:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm 17 years younger than you.
16:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I haven't done certain things in my life that Ken has, like, I haven't had a kid yet.
16:45
[SPEAKER_01]: For example, I was thinking of joining the military and I never did that, I won't, I'm too old for it now.
16:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think in my view,
16:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It has happened the biggest thing that I really remember was when I moved to Vietnam 10 years ago when I was 23 I was I got laid off I got a new job wasn't really enjoying it and I remember I I almost like rage quit San Francisco
17:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was spending so much money on rent.
17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I was saving no money at all.
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And the job sucked.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And I knew that there was nothing to look forward to.
17:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even enjoy the people I was working with as well.
17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I remember that moment was kind of like, I didn't know a particular person, right?
17:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't do that to any person, but to the circumstances that I was in.
17:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, I've told this one story to one friend, maybe six, seven months ago, and she was like, oh, how that reminds me of like that I'm going back to Japanese terms.
17:49
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a Japanese term of like people that want to quit everything and they hire an agency that helps them do that.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: They just like disappear from the planet, like boom, they're just gone.
18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: they go into some vortex and they just like, so I mean, I didn't go that bad.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I still message people back home, but I didn't tell anybody I left.
18:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember I left so abruptly after two weeks and I was like, you know, I just wanted to leave.
18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember that.
18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: That didn't enable me to not have to explain things to people.
18:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, why are you going to Vietnam?
18:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew, and actually led to Vitt Sutra in a way, because I just started writing about things and I was sentenced to people.
18:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, what are you doing there?
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just so an article.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was probably the most significant point.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd probably have cut out people, I'm pretty sure, not willingly necessarily.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I am known to be a bit of a aggressive person at times.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of you know that.
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing to the extent of cutting people off.
18:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it depends how you would frame that.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think this idea of that we are all one,
18:59
[SPEAKER_00]: is a very important thing I think to think about.
19:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We are all one.
19:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We are, especially for young people.
19:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
19:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We are all one.
19:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And we can't go off cutting each other off.
19:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, burning bridges and stuff like that no matter how much we disagree and I think that's that that's why the world is it's in in In the we're in the condition that it's in today.
19:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's a big we got to work back to Good evening social cohesion and loving each other, you know,
19:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost impossible to quote unquote cut off people, especially other large-scale today, because social media, well, let's say it's a famous person.
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And they just keep popping up because they're famous or something like that, right?
19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's almost impossible, too.
19:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless you just remove yourself from social media, which is okay, too.
19:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's an interesting point.
19:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk next about,
19:56
[SPEAKER_01]: This idea of, in my notes here, avoidance.
20:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The quote is, the biggest lie you tell yourself is I'll deal with the later.
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Avoidance costs more than mistakes.
20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Another way to frame it is like the sunk cost fallacy, if you put so much into it already, or the idea that deadline just keeps extending itself, that reminds me of what you just said to like, we are one, people will always still be there, no matter if you cut them off, right?
20:22
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just, they're around so.
20:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the point, maybe I would love to hear from you, kind of that idea that the deal with it later, kind of mindset, it still affects other people.
20:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You might buy yourself time, but it doesn't for the other person, right?
20:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I feel like the idea of avoidance is,
20:42
[SPEAKER_00]: the thing that we're avoiding.
20:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you hear this over and over.
20:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, come on, it's like a cliché now.
20:47
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that we're avoiding is the thing that we need to be doing the first.
20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be the thing that you have to do now.
20:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the most important thing.
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Things that we avoid are things that are so burning, piping hot and they're difficult, but those are things that allow us to really grow.
21:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I really believe that.
21:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's hard to practice that because you know, you know, like, you know, I'm a diabetic.
21:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know I like to eat and I love sweets.
21:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But I avoided it.
21:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I avoid being healthy like that.
21:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I eat things that are really bad for me.
21:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But those are the first things that's gonna keep me from having a stroke or having a heart attack is this idea.
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We're both like smiling as you're talking.
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking about the salt and the straw ice cream that we like.
21:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And when so many invites me like you come to town and you invite me to you go to that thing I'm going to do it I don't have any filter or any I can't control myself But that's like the first thing I saw I'm avoiding not doing that and I'm like that that's killing me right now You know, so the things that we're avoiding are the things that are killing us and stopping progress.
21:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a very simple equation whatever you can write down that you're avoiding you got to tack it first
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good exercise.
22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you done that before for yourself?
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You have it.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I keep failing, you know.
22:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the intention, the first question that we talked about, do I really believe living forever is important to me?
22:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I know that I'm scurrying around philosophically here.
22:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But living long, like my brother is on and into singularity and living forever, I'm not.
22:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that like enjoying good food, drinking, smoking, those are things I enjoy.
22:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And am I going to really give up like a quote unquote a good life?
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So the intentionality, the technical part of how do I get,
22:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Weed off of these bad things, quote and quote for me, that's the hard part, because there's no intention behind it.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not technically approaching this problem, like what you said, do you have your list about the avoidance?
22:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, you know, I haven't, because I haven't really wanted to change and I'm not really approaching that intentionally.
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I have something like, heaven forbid, I get a heart attack or stroke.
23:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that that will be the the switch for me that I'll completely go the other way And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have checklist on how not to do salt and straw when how comes in a town.
23:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah Like I'm gonna know how to like counter that but it's not important just it's not important to me right now
23:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I just, we had a podcast yesterday with a slight health care tech guy whose name's Ophier, and watched the podcast, well, our friends said in the link below, he has a relationship with me that I kind of with you as well, similar, yeah.
23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He's also around the same age as you, I think.
23:46
[SPEAKER_01]: The funny thing was he was co-founders with my business partner for a different company 20 years ago.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're both Belgian from France, Belgium.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's how we knew each other.
23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, anyways, the point of the reason why I bring it up was because I'm going to use kind of healthy care tech terms right now.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But the idea about how the healthcare health works is prevention.
24:12
[SPEAKER_01]: and treatment, the idea that in the healthcare system or how we take care of our bodies, most people, like 99% of people, only take action for treatment.
24:22
[SPEAKER_01]: When something bad happens and then they take care of it, like they take prescription drugs, they go to the hospital, they do this, do that, to fix what is broken.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But the idea of like prevention, I think that's why health is such a big thing for people nowadays or like the Brian Johnson's of the world, don't die, like blueprint and all that.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: The idea that
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You can prevent that even from happening, but yeah, you have to stop having sugar.
24:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, stop drinking alcohol But even before all that you have to be very intentional about living long, right?
24:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you have to be you have to Create that sort of like that technical side of like prevention, you know, what else am I gonna do?
25:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how how do I prevent myself from when a how comes in a town and he's like this is just salt and straw like how do I prevent that from and just look at you saying no I can't do it
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I'll give you a suggestion.
25:15
[SPEAKER_01]: The next time I do that, it's like how we're not doing that, can we go eat a salad instead?
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Or what else could we eat?
25:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about burrito burrito is not healthy.
25:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, nothing's really healthy if you really enjoy food We can say let's go for a walk instead That's boring, you know, but you got to be more I just have to be more intentional with it.
25:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to gamify it I've gamified my working out my you know, I've gamified the the other stuff, but this is hard Okay, next one and by the way, audience.
25:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure we're gonna get through all 15 because you can have to go get lunch at some point But the next one is
25:51
[SPEAKER_01]: you misunderstand what peace is.
25:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the absence of problems.
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the mastery.
25:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Ken, what are your thoughts about this question?
25:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the whole piece and when I think about peace, I think about conflicts with people to people.
26:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about this yesterday.
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that we are lazy to deal head-on with conflict.
26:15
[SPEAKER_00]: because we don't have the patience, we don't have the language, we don't have the technical skills to really unwind things.
26:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have the confidence to say, let's sit down, and no matter how heated it gets, let's stay here until we can figure out that you truly want what you want, I truly want what I want, time to break up or
26:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's find a way, if there's an event diagram overlap, let's figure this out, but let's really spend the time to work it out and go through it.
26:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think at the end of that journey, those conversations, I think that's when we find peace.
26:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what mastery of peace is about is the ability to sit down and calmly, or even, you know, you'll get worked up and you'll get emotional.
27:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's fine, but the idea of peace and that mastery of that peace,
27:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I've told you is to call up people and say, how do I get to know myself better?
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And not answer with the, yes, but, right?
27:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, you know, if you're sitting in, and you're saying, but this, but that, and you're being very defensive, like, that's not mastery.
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Mastery is when you can just hear it, perhaps repeat it back to the person and go, okay, let me think about and process that.
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: like that.
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some words and vocabulary that people should try to limit.
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So but but is another one of those?
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: One of those are like, you know, it's very suggestive.
27:40
[SPEAKER_00]: If you being taught me a real cool word on this trip, she used the word instead of but she used the word tuignin.
27:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's like of course and but I think that the willingness to open up and hear somebody and really listen to what they're saying and not working our thoughts into the conversation is important.
27:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not have selective violence.
27:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And just like take the hit, take the hit, what are they saying?
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: People are spending their time to sit with us, right?
28:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And giving critical critiques, we should might as well, it's a goal.
28:09
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just handing out gold, but I'm not just take the gold and just see what you can do with the gold instead of pushing back and saying, but or however, right?
28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
28:18
[SPEAKER_01]: The next one is, you are loyal to habits that no longer serve you, simply because you're familiar with them.
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you mentioned, let's say smoking.
28:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I have no, I had no idea that you smoked actually, but, uh, or, or did.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it out.
28:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, since I was 13, well, why don't we talk about that?
28:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, start.
28:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, how much, how much were you buying of cigarettes?
28:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there were, like, points in my life are smoking the pack pack and a half a day.
28:46
[SPEAKER_00]: easily.
28:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, this last maybe 10 years I haven't smoked a lot, but there are times like if I went through a breakup or whatever, I mean, it's cold in L.A. on in the winter time and you know, you're going through heartache.
28:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm gonna start smoking, right?
29:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: you know you're in a vulnerable state and you I love smoking I love the active smoking I love lighting up I love the feeling it gives me that's hard to like leave for me you know but I know that's killing me I know that it's creating on this like neuropathy my toes and ad with the diabetes
29:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a challenge, you know, and I go in and out of a periods of drinking and smoking, because you know, I love those things.
29:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I love these vices, and I love to sit with artists, and have like a strong, you know, scotch, and smoke, you know, those things like, make me make me very happy.
29:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's a balance of like,
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: are those habits, actually, good or bad views, one thing.
29:47
[SPEAKER_01]: The killing, another one is just like an adieu and joy.
29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, does it genuinely give you, like a dopamine, it shouldn't really be want to call it?
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to control that too, right?
29:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Too much dopamine.
29:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:59
[SPEAKER_01]: People say in like social media, right?
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's another example.
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, the social media things interesting, because,
30:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how would you call yourself as someone that buy cigarettes like let's say an addict.
30:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You're an addict.
30:13
[SPEAKER_01]: What's another term?
30:16
[SPEAKER_00]: A perpetual like relapse person.
30:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
30:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, user user.
30:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
30:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely a user.
30:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
30:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What do social media apps call their users?
30:27
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah
30:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that coincidence or is that a...
30:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's parallels there for sure.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there's parallels.
30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about that a lot because social media too, I have this time tracker on my phone.
30:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It tells you how much the screen time is.
30:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently I average like four and a half hours a day.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what that's relative to other people.
30:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I'm on my phone literally all the time, like texting 100 people and checking my emails and, yeah, I don't know how that breaks down, like I guess it's kind of be at least 30 minutes a day on email alone, maybe WhatsApp another half hour, yeah, I don't know.
31:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But your business person and you need those devices and you need those instruments to fly this machine, this airplane that I'm leaving Instagram TikTok out of that purposefully, so if you will judge me, I'm kidding, I don't use TikTok as much, or I don't actually.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's necessary evils in your situation because you, you know, you have to do these things in a very scaling, you know, yourself and how would you do that if you didn't, you know, have to get on these, you have to do it.
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a necessary evil.
31:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's move on.
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Next one, most of your suffering comes from trying to control things that will never obey you.
31:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, talking about relationships, right?
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Not just romantic, but interpersonal too.
31:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't control what other people think, let alone,
32:04
[SPEAKER_01]: like, oh yeah, that's good one.
32:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't control people think of you, but you can control what you do because if what you do influences what people think.
32:14
[SPEAKER_00]: But what if you're living in a feedback loop, you think that whatever you're doing is right and you're just like screw everybody and how they feel and you never improve as a human being.
32:26
[SPEAKER_00]: What about that?
32:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's another way to frame it.
32:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that you and I, we've had this discussion.
32:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we look at it very differently.
32:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't, I'm not saying either ways, because they're both extremes.
32:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an extreme person when I look out into the ecosystem of my 40 year relationships with people, because I'm 50, I've had relationships for 40 years.
32:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I look at all these relationships and I'm like, what is that feedback giving me?
32:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Are people saying I'm a people pleaser?
32:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Are people saying that I'm just,
32:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Caltowing to everybody and not spending my time wisely because I'm just so spread than with, you know, or like you, you're like, I don't need all that.
33:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I just need two people in my life.
33:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know, we need to find the balance of that sort of that litmus test of like, are we actually living with self-awareness?
33:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I have too much self-awareness that's detrimental to me, existing society.
33:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe you have self-awareness, but you're just like,
33:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care.
33:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe think when you started thinking about that, what influences me?
33:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So I read the news a lot, all different types, everything from the New York Times to be an express to social media, whatever.
33:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a content consumer, podcasts, even.
33:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course with the algorithm this day, right?
33:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say you're consuming a lot of a certain type of podcast.
33:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It will know that and then send you more content.
33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to then have a feedback loop because you like it.
33:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So you just send keeps sending you more stuff.
34:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So for instance, this is a case in point in social media today, or even if we were to talk about, let's go back to like life in America these days, right?
34:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Or even as a Vietnamese-American, right?
34:11
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of content.
34:14
[SPEAKER_01]: because they know that we like Vietnam content, so they service something related to that Asian-American content.
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, that kind of content online today really has a narrative that is about community identity, let's stand up as an Asian or Vietnamese people.
34:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's share that culture to the world, right?
34:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that obviously creates this narrative, this like strong sense of identity, which is great.
34:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you take a bad side of things, right, you know, I just watched the dealbook summit by Andrew Ross Orkin.
34:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, we want to know what the dealbook summit is, by the way.
34:53
[SPEAKER_01]: No, okay, it's an annual event that Andrew Ross's work in the author of this book talk we went to about a month ago in Los Angeles It's hosted by the New York Times.
35:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's done at the Rockefeller Center in New York.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing.
35:05
[SPEAKER_01]: He has top speakers.
35:06
[SPEAKER_01]: He has like Scott Besan Alex Carp from Palantir He had Gavin Newsom Erica Kirk
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, uh, he had the black rock Larry think I like everybody even Benjamin Netanyahu like I was like, wow, how do you get him on?
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, don't get canceled.
35:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but he had everybody and very objective journalist.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's generally generally speaking.
35:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like him a lot.
35:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um,
35:34
[SPEAKER_01]: why I mentioned him because one of his most iconic interviews that he's ever done on that summit was with Elon Musk and this the short video that just keeps going around the internet that this is right after he bought twitter and Elon Musk goes on stage and says like kind of an
35:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need you advertisers.
35:58
[SPEAKER_01]: He says it in much, and not so nice way, oh.
36:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the super extreme, right?
36:05
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's very, I mean, he's a trillionaire, right?
36:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess you could kind of say whatever you want, he doesn't care as much.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And he has such a position that's so strong that he's willing to say these things in public even, right?
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember looking at that being like, oh, that's extreme.
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, people shouldn't be doing that generally speaking, but he's also a billionaire.
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So he probably doesn't care.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, that's a super extreme case, but the point I was trying to make was like,
36:44
[SPEAKER_01]: because Elon Musk is like an idol to people, like literally.
36:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So they then would interpret that as being like, oh, go Elon Musk or the opposite, which is like, oh, he's terrible, yeah, right?
36:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what it does do is create this division of perspective, what is acceptable, what is not acceptable.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I would just say impartially what he said was unacceptable, but I also understand why he said it,
37:12
[SPEAKER_01]: He's very strongly opinionated right and I'd encourage you to watch the video Yes, it's it's actually because like if he's known for these kind of crazy things, right?
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think you're right.
37:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I think You know in his case going back to the quote.
37:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We just read as most of your suffering comes from trying to control things that will never obey you and What can you do in the first place though?
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: That won't create tension
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So, people have even said, oh, maybe, you know, people like Elon Musk should have access to the internet.
37:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's all another thing, but.
37:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's about managing expectations.
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the most important managing your own expectations.
37:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's where all suffering comes from.
37:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think when you want something so bad and you're not like thinking about why you want it,
38:04
[SPEAKER_00]: whether it's a relationship or money, or you want to be more friendly to people, and you have to think about why do you expect this?
38:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have to really think about it and think about it in a deep way.
38:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And once I think you can kind of clear in your mind why you want these things, I think you can manage expectations a lot better.
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
38:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So all about managing expectations for yourself and from there I can, yeah.
38:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what caused us suffering.
38:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's very Buddhist and even Western Judaic Christian religions, it's about that too.
38:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's about managing it.
38:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, people were like, when you give things to God and you offer it up to God, that's like really taking the
38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not gonna let it bother me, I'm not gonna suffer for it because there's a man of stairs that can figure this out for me, right?
39:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I think that is very in line with the Buddhist way of looking at, you know, knowing that all suffering comes from expectations.
39:08
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, next one, Ken.
39:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need more opportunities.
39:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You need more courage to act on the ones you're already given.
39:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about this, and not specifically, but themes around it, like, you know, life, we have so many people we can choose to speak to.
39:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And why do we choose these people?
39:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we have so many job opportunities.
39:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do we accept so much?
39:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do we reject others?
39:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about what your thoughts are about this like courage, idea of this quote, like what kind of more courage do you need to be on?
39:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be perfectly honest with you.
39:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've not mastered this.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is probably the one thing that
39:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I think courage like for me is a simple thing like I want to be able to look into the camera and do you know who Bill Burr is the comedian?
39:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, two hours.
40:00
[SPEAKER_00]: His podcast is two hours of him ranting into the camera.
40:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the extreme but that's where I want to be.
40:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to I want to do that.
40:10
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a great little tick-tock right there.
40:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you think about it, right?
40:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is generating all these cool thoughts from this guy's brain and him reading and him consuming whatever he's, to regurgitate it coming from his point of view and it goes into the real world.
40:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, think about it, it's just a microphone and this talk, this mouth, right?
40:30
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not leaning on a, like,
40:32
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why when I think about me and podcasting, that's like easy, right?
40:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm leaning on you.
40:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You're leaning on me.
40:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like dancing together and we have a partner, right?
40:41
[SPEAKER_00]: But man, if you talk for two hours into the camera,
40:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's nobody around you just turn the camera on.
40:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the kind of courage that I want.
40:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's like, I feel like if I can get to that, then I'm dealing with my insecurities.
40:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm dealing with the things that are really trapped inside of me that are not coming out.
41:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm worried about looking bad.
41:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm worried about what people think of me.
41:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm worried about what the world.
41:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm worried about cancel culture.
41:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm worried about all these things.
41:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you think about Bill Burr, he's just going off.
41:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of guys that can do that.
41:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to get to that level where that's probably like, I'm a one track mind when it comes to like looking into the camera and just going off.
41:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that creates opportunity because people want to know that authentic you, who are you, who are you, how?
41:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, but you're leaning on your guess.
41:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So you and I are like, you know, showing off that, you know, not showing off.
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're very proud that we have over 400 episodes, you know, but to me,
41:37
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not an accomplishment yet.
41:39
[SPEAKER_00]: My accomplishment will be looking to the camera and not really caring about what the world thinks and I just want to go off and be built, Bober.
41:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So that for me is a bit of a contradiction to the quote before that which is
41:52
[SPEAKER_01]: most of your suffering comes from trying to control things that never obey you.
41:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've just shared that, but just for the audience, you know, this is one of the things that Ken and I talk a lot about, because I'm a pretty reclusive person in general.
42:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I go out people see me around, but you know, actually I went to a dinner last night, and everyone was like, oh, hey, what are you doing here?
42:10
[SPEAKER_01]: We never see you out anymore, because I like to have dinner with my parents.
42:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, like to be home.
42:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but, but you, you're, you're, you're out there.
42:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a very social animal.
42:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, you're like posting people.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You like, make sure everyone has a good time and, you know, I do too, but not for everyone.
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, at all.
42:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, very few people see that side of me.
42:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But wait, let me go back to what you said.
42:34
[SPEAKER_00]: This suffering and expectation management stuff is the same thing as courage.
42:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if I could have no expectations,
42:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't suffer.
42:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And why am I suffering?
42:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I have all this expectation about like what people are going to receive my thoughts.
42:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the same thing.
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one and the same.
42:53
[SPEAKER_00]: If I can say to myself Lower the expectations or get rid of the expectations at completely like who cares about like what people think Then I won't have the suffering.
43:04
[SPEAKER_00]: If I won't have the suffering then I can just look into the camera and just like rant.
43:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's change the word when it's I've never heard that we're gonna put an episode of Bill Burr of CC later But I think a nicer way can because you know, I know what the idea is you have and how you're passionate about it If I were to reframe that word for you, it'd be like you're just very passionate and sharing I don't see you ever as a rancher.
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me just be clear What's wrong with that though?
43:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What's wrong with rancher?
43:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know well in English I don't know well both obviously made of English, but like it just sounds a little bit more negative somehow.
43:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know
43:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And it could be.
43:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be.
43:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
43:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But now you're trying to not view.
43:41
[SPEAKER_00]: But now we're managing these words.
43:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
43:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Controlling the idea of renting as negative, but renting it just be just like, uh, uh, what do they call it?
43:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
43:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
43:51
[SPEAKER_00]: She's renting just like letting it out.
43:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
43:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
43:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But sure.
43:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I could see where it could be negative.
43:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm imagining us.
43:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm using AI in my head right now.
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Just eating ice cream in just right now.
44:01
[SPEAKER_01]: that would be hilarious.
44:03
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll do that one.
44:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you see me one day on my channel, like just looking at the camera and daily, just like giving it like giving what then you're going to, you know, one day we're going to have a one leader, like if I scream and we're just going to have to finish it before the podcast ends.
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
44:19
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, next question.
44:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You think you're protecting yourself by being guarded, but you're actually preventing connection.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Great one.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we talked about this a lot.
44:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Mostly applies to me, I think more than you.
44:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, share your thoughts here.
44:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, as it applies to you, I think you're so strategic about guarding information and guarding strategy.
44:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe I'm the complete opposite.
44:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm on the extreme of that.
44:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an open book with people see me.
44:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And the access that I get as a result they're just being very open, it could be different from the access that you get, which is being very strategic.
45:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But that think that we live lives with different objectives, right?
45:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So if it works for you, then I think keep going.
45:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
45:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're unhappy or it's getting in the way of relationships, or it's getting in the way of finding a wife or, you know, that in that way, then these are things that we need to explore to kind of like, yeah, you know.
45:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So the funny thing is, in relation to this quote, I prefer that.
45:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just my default, like, logically, but also even somewhat emotionally personally.
45:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I prefer that, but then the outcome,
45:41
[SPEAKER_01]: is not necessarily my expectation, right?
45:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like saying, oh, yeah, I like ice cream.
45:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I start coming back to the ice cream example, but I know it's somehow not working for me, you know?
45:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So, is there an adaptation around that I'm not sure, but yeah, good, good, good point.
45:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, are you enjoying what the fruits of the thing is, you know, I love when people get to know me entirely.
46:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love being, are trying to be consistent in my openness.
46:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that about me.
46:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of people are like, that's not strategic.
46:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like, why do you show everybody how you feel?
46:17
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the only way I can do it sometimes, you know?
46:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Just I love it when people intimately know me.
46:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And by next one, next quote is, you confuse being needed with being loved, and that's why you stay in draining relationships.
46:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, you've had almost two decades more of interpersonal relationships than I have, so I'm going to start with you.
46:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I know some of the people that you know, I'm not speaking about them specifically, but some of them are a deal for Enjim.
46:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like 80, 90 years old or something.
47:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why do you continue to be friends with him?
47:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I say that in a good way, whereas some people, you've kind of toned down for a certain reason.
47:13
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you make these decisions about this particular, you confuse being needed with being loved?
47:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why you stand draining relationships.
47:24
[SPEAKER_01]: If we talked about Jaymo would be like, oh, he's a dream.
47:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, cut that out.
47:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
47:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Three, two, one.
47:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, Jim is not a draining.
47:32
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a big giver.
47:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, but he's not.
47:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's even.
47:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
47:36
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to cut that out.
47:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
47:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Three, two, one, go.
47:40
[SPEAKER_00]: This idea of confusing need is a big thing for everybody.
47:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a big thing.
47:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think there's litmus tests when you think about this.
47:50
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're around somebody and you're getting to know them, especially people who are like in higher positions, you start to realize what kind of control mechanisms are showing up.
48:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that when you start to analyze these control mechanisms, you're like,
48:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, are you saying that for yourself or are you saying that to help me?
48:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think when you start monitoring these things after a while, you begin to see if
48:20
[SPEAKER_00]: you feel needed, exploited, or people are just giving real unconditional love to you.
48:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can see it.
48:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You can really pick this up if you start monitoring good people.
48:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And people who are gatekeeping, and then they're baiting you into this relationship because they're dangling like contacts or they're dangling opportunities.
48:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You can start to see it.
48:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause if you put that litmus test up against these people,
48:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It comes out.
48:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You can hear it in the language.
48:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You can see it in the way that they're laying out the progress of our relationship that we're growing into.
48:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.
48:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It reminds me of this one case when I first moved here actually 23.
49:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like super fresh and I'm like the energizer bunny.
49:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm meeting everybody.
49:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, you know, 23-year-old.
49:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember the one of the first folks I met.
49:12
[SPEAKER_01]: this person, she ran a basically consultancy, helped a lot of businesses, and it's such where I was going, right?
49:20
[SPEAKER_01]: A few folks on the team, and she offered to introduce all these people, and I was like, wow, that's amazing.
49:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I should do it, but yeah, thank you.
49:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I just thought like, you know, I'm a new entrepreneur, new kid in the block, just making introductions.
49:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And then later, like, if maybe a couple weeks later, after she had already introduced me to someone, she gives me a call and being like, oh, yeah, here you got potentially new projects.
49:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, usually how it works for me is I get 30% of whatever they're sending you.
49:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember, I've never heard of that.
49:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm okay if you just told me in the beginning.
49:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, fine, that's what a broker does, right?
49:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm totally agent or whatever.
50:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But like to tell me separately, after you already made the intro
50:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, suddenly now I'm useful to you.
50:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So then you ask something, right?
50:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember that was my first experience on my side, experiencing that.
50:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think on my side, maybe delivering that, that's why running a company is very delicate, because a lot of people depend on the company for their living or partnership or whatever.
50:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes, you know, relationships with your teammates and your outside world are also dependent on that.
50:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think my only comment there is, is sometimes that, especially nowadays with like social media.
50:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You see it all the time, by the way, like this trend in the US where people get laid off virtually on video.
50:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And then people know that they're getting laid off, so they put this behind the scenes camera recording.
51:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole thing, I'm like, oh my god, it's actually funny, it's like, why are you doing that?
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like for what, you know, does it actually help anyone aside from drawing attention?
51:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, let's return back to this whole loop of like, people who are, you know, in communication with you for their own need or are they real givers unconditionally?
51:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Our different bound win is the film director.
51:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Super, you know, thinks about strategy calculations and, you know, it's very meticulous about the details of how he approaches everybody.
51:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I'm around him, I always get unconditional love.
51:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if it's like, you know, bitter or if it's like, you know, it's tough advice that makes you really question-like, did I make the right decision?
51:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just wise beyond his years.
51:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I think about in my relationship with him
51:57
[SPEAKER_00]: throughout the years, 15 years or whatever, what motivation to see have with me?
52:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always giving, you can see it, right?
52:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like the litmus tests for me.
52:10
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like the gold standard of,
52:12
[SPEAKER_00]: of doing things that benefit his community, right?
52:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's other people who are like, they want to be around me because they want to access.
52:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can start to see it very clearly.
52:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think once, like even between you and me, I've known you for a few years.
52:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, there's plenty of times where I think on the outside where it's like,
52:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, can I, can I pair up and do things with you and collaborate?
52:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, no, that's something that when the right time comes, you know, the universe puts it into place and the actual like needing something from each other.
52:49
[SPEAKER_00]: If it comes with purity and authenticity, like if you came to me and said, look, I like to keep profits.
52:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to hold on to my money.
52:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have no problem with that, right?
52:58
[SPEAKER_00]: No problem with that, is you said, yeah.
53:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But here is what I can give you.
53:03
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so important because it has to be a win-win.
53:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna hold money because I set this company up and I have this opportunity, but I'm gonna give you an opportunity too, and you label it, and you clear it late out on the deck.
53:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I, uh, one of these like exercises I started using after that experience I gave you, that was one of the most memorable ones because I remember I was like 24 or 25 still like, oh, like really getting into the working basically, um,
53:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like I write it down.
53:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a mental thing.
53:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, if somebody knew or someone I don't know so well They've reached out or I've reached out.
53:42
[SPEAKER_01]: There has to be a win-win for both and I don't mean like money or business I mean also even energy exchange because let's say we have a coffee and then after like You feel bad.
53:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I know like the coffee and not so good for you for some reason
53:59
[SPEAKER_01]: like energy-wise or anything business, energy, like just having a nice cup of coffee in the morning, right?
54:05
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's not good, you're not going to be happy.
54:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And as a result, that reflection will be negative on me.
54:13
[SPEAKER_01]: not directly perhaps, but just be like, oh yeah, I had that like useless meaning with how, like why did I do that?
54:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'd rather have coffee by myself, you know, right?
54:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
54:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So I started to think about that whenever I asked for time from people or it people asked time for me, I'm just like, can I actually be useful for this person?
54:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, actually.
54:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I actually have a friend these days are just so busy.
54:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I see this guy maybe every six months.
54:36
[SPEAKER_01]: He's actually a good friend of mine.
54:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He messaged me last week.
54:39
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, hey, how, let's get coffee sometime.
54:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of knew already why he wanted to meet me because he kind of gave me a hint the other week.
54:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was actually pretty interesting.
54:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just replied, I was like, dude, I'm just totally flat out.
54:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I can't meet, and if you even have I did, I can't be useful for you.
54:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you just send me what you want to talk about?
54:56
[SPEAKER_01]: because I knew that move, what help was both?
54:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I knew that, yeah, we can meet, but we wasted each other's time.
55:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd give off bad vibes, because I'm just so crammed right now.
55:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And then for him, he's not gonna get what he wants.
55:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just just like, more my opinion about this.
55:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, can we even collaborate?
55:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just knew, I've no capacity, it's not even possible.
55:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he actually texted me this morning and I just texted him back with my thoughts.
55:20
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, oh, yeah, cool, let's talk after New Year's kind of thing.
55:26
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, in practice what I've started doing.
55:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's actually just been really nice.
55:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
55:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it says a private and even dinner with people.
55:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:35
[SPEAKER_01]: People always want to have dinner, be as why not.
55:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We share some drinks, have good meal, okay, great.
55:41
[SPEAKER_01]: My parents are in town, though.
55:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So I started giving this excuse, which is actually true.
55:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought I'd have dinner with my parents that anyone, like actually, if you ask me for a dinner, I'd probably just tell you, at least just haven't dinner with my parents.
55:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
55:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just started doing that with people.
55:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, oh, yeah, cool.
55:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause like, you know, it was your parents, right?
56:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just try to be as upfront about it as possible because I just value that so much more than anything else.
56:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, let's move on here.
56:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Your life is mostly dictated by impulses you never trained.
56:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Not principles you claim to believe in.
56:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is interesting because you know, let's talk about, I, I, I support with religion about
56:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And the question was like, I'm not a religious person.
56:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought about it myself and I was like, you know, if let's say I followed a religion or it was even a very, you know, basic follower, would that framework help me as a person?
56:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I was thinking, I was like, maybe probably, highly probable, because I know that even though I've all these existing spirits in select life, if I did at least understand or study a religion, I would, I would somehow apply the good parts of that framework to my life,
57:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
57:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's how the question is because the first part of what was your life is mostly dictated by impulses you never trained.
57:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is true.
57:14
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of things we've never done in life and maybe we have and we haven't yet.
57:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What do your thoughts about that?
57:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:21
[SPEAKER_00]: As it pertains to religion, as I get older, I get more and more into it.
57:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I fought Catholicism because my parents wanted me to become a Catholic priest growing up and it really shattered my
57:34
[SPEAKER_00]: any chance of going to Harvard or Yale or these Ivy League's.
57:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I was smart enough, but when you're like told, you're gonna be a solid bit person, you're gonna live life as a priest.
57:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You shut all of those things down and all your friends are trying to get to Berkeley and these Ivy's.
57:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I completely felt robbed of those dreams.
57:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So I shut down Catholicism.
57:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But you can't throw the baby out with the bath water, right?
58:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You, as so I've gotten older, I'm like, you know, they really, they really knocked Buddhism.
58:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So now I take a very open approach.
58:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, okay, what were the good tenets of Catholicism or Judeo Christianity?
58:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are the good things about these religions?
58:18
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the good things about the Buddhist philosophy in the way of life?
58:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And the, you know, so I try to combine it all.
58:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, and learn from it.
58:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And learn from it.
58:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and learn from it.
58:29
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea of just staying open and not combating what we are traumatized from before.
58:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Bricks is free of anything that binds us and then holds us back.
58:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's still there, man.
58:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still like these voices of Catholicism and the guilt that comes with it.
58:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It really hinders some of the things that I want to do in life.
58:57
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
58:57
[SPEAKER_01]: very cool.
58:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll only have a few more here again just by the way.
59:01
[SPEAKER_01]: A connects one is you don't lack answers.
59:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You lack the honesty to face the ones you already know.
59:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
59:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That goes back to the earlier question of you having the courage to just do it.
59:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
59:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that.
59:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, courage and honesty.
59:19
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you say those are different?
59:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Not much.
59:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I think courage is the act of it.
59:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, the is more of the thought of it, right?
59:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's both the same.
59:28
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're honest with it, you can say I have the courage or not.
59:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there's very big distinctions there, but I think they're very, very, very late.
59:36
[SPEAKER_00]: The cousins of each other.
59:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
59:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
59:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good one.
59:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Cousins.
59:40
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.
59:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Next one, you want people to understand you, but you barely understand yourself.
59:54
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a very simple one, too, I mean.
59:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, that is probably the one that I think all of us have to really meditate on for the rest of our lives.
1:00:04
[SPEAKER_00]: The things that you hate most about somebody is really the unhappiness you feel about yourself in this situation.
1:00:11
[SPEAKER_00]: All the things that we hate about other people and the judgeee and the hate or, you know, approaches the things that we hate about ourselves.
1:00:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to talk about that because for me, I've been running this company for 10 years.
1:00:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And almost every day, someone says, oh, how Vitt's such a successful.
1:00:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I reflect on the internals of the company.
1:00:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, I mean, we've run a nice little business, but we're definitely not successful for XYZ reasons.
1:00:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, just before this, I had a call with one of our, um, uh, like finance experts.
1:00:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were, we were both kind of, oh, yeah, we need to fix this.
1:00:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, how did the hell do that happen, right?
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're now we're fixing it.
1:00:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, of course, people on the outside don't know that, though.
1:00:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And also my kind of general peer group, I'm 33 today, most of the people in my age are starting their first companies today.
1:01:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're doing either really well or learning along the way, whatever.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've been doing for 10 years, which is something I don't recommend, by the way.
1:01:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't recommend starting a company or anything at 23 because you're just gonna make mistakes for sure.
1:01:18
[SPEAKER_00]: and go out and work corporate first.
1:01:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it would be trained.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It might be something like either corporate or another startup or something, which is the foundation.
1:01:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That's somebody pay you to make these mistakes.
1:01:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
1:01:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:01:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so in, you know,
1:01:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, okay, so go back to quote, you want people to understand you, but you barely understand yourself.
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I was an entrepreneur, I made a lot of mistakes in the first few years, and I still continue to, but the first few is especially, I remember, you know, the whole startup vibe is kind of like, oh, run fast, break things or something like that.
1:01:51
[SPEAKER_01]: which is, I don't encourage that at all.
1:01:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, especially if you're a young person, it's like we see this in the media because Mark Zuckerberg did it at Facebook, right?
1:02:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's like one out of like a million, actually even a billion you could say, right?
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, it's nice for him to say those things, but in practice, it's actually very bad advice for young people.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But then social media, you know, going back to that again, right?
1:02:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It just amplifies those quote-tates quotes and those ways of, even he had a movie, right?
1:02:20
[SPEAKER_01]: The social network or about him.
1:02:22
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't.
1:02:23
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't commission that, but you know, that movie is literally that.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It captures mostly the more slightly negative sides of that, but you also see the glamorous sides of it, right?
1:02:34
[SPEAKER_01]: He became a billionaire by the time he was like 30 or something like that.
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_01]: and all these fancy stuff.
1:02:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, no one's actually doing that.
1:02:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not real life.
1:02:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one in a million, billion.
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's mind learning on that.
1:02:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and going back to the original question here is basically knowing yourself well enough.
1:02:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a prerequisite for every department of your life, you know?
1:03:02
[SPEAKER_00]: If you know yourself well enough, as a lover, you'll be better, as a father, you'll be better, you know?
1:03:10
[SPEAKER_00]: when you don't know yourself, and I deal with this, you know, I'm living in that quagmire all the time, like not really knowing myself, you know?
1:03:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause there's certain conditions where you're like, whoa, it's for some have seen it, or I've seen it over and over again, but I've never examined it to really be settled and think about why I'm going through this, you know?
1:03:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the important thing is to really dig deep into who you are because these judgments that we have to the outside world,
1:03:40
[SPEAKER_01]: No, good one.
1:03:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Next one is growth feels like breaking before it feels like improving.
1:03:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's use your fitness kind of.
1:03:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the easiest to look at, right?
1:03:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Were you facing any physical issues when you were pushing yourself before you actually got to where you are?
1:04:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it looks great.
1:04:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you look great?
1:04:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
1:04:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I still am going through these things.
1:04:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:04:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still going through these things constantly.
1:04:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I had a bet with the friend of mine to do a hundred pushups and I I actually strongly advise it.
1:04:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've talked to you about it.
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I've ran nine marathons in my 20s and 30s, right?
1:04:22
[SPEAKER_00]: These things that we stack for ourselves is very important because it allows us to break
1:04:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're in a marathon round, and your quads break down, and you can no longer walk.
1:04:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're literally like limping, and you can't move anymore.
1:04:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And you gotta figure out a way to get past it.
1:04:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a mile 23, and you're just like, toast, you're roasted, you're like, you're not, or you know, you have a deadline of 100 push ups, and you owe a few, 100 bucks to your friends.
1:04:58
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to get through this, even if your shoulders are like, you got to figure it out.
1:05:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's so important to set these breaking, you want to break these things and go through it, because otherwise you are not growing.
1:05:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You never know your limit.
1:05:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know your limit.
1:05:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:05:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't take the goggins, right?
1:05:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a guy that I think I've read his book and just have that attitude that no matter what, there's always the next level for you.
1:05:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like 100 pushups, there's guys that can do 500 pushups in one sitting, right?
1:05:30
[SPEAKER_00]: How are they able to do that?
1:05:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can't break 100 yet, you know?
1:05:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I can only get to 80.
1:05:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was like, you know, I told people, I'm 50.
1:05:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, most 33, 35 year old guys can't even do 20 pushups, right?
1:05:43
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're at it for about two months, you're pointing at me.
1:05:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You're pointing at me.
1:05:47
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.
1:05:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably the whole room.
1:05:48
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you know what I mean?
1:05:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, you got to be able to break it.
1:05:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Break these records and break your body in order to improve.
1:05:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Next one, you assume you have time and that assumption shapes your entire life more than any decision you consciously make.
1:06:10
[SPEAKER_00]: This is something I know I don't think about much time.
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I've just probably never thought about it.
1:06:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Is your belief then that kind of like the next day you don't know what's going to happen or is it more much?
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I just never thought about it as much because I feel like I'm just enjoying life every day and you know what my kids and everything that I do.
1:06:28
[SPEAKER_00]: is in your present basically, I love what I do, I love what I do, I love the people I spend time with and I just don't think about it as a regular person, but maybe I should, maybe the compounding of interest and money and the compounding and interest and the way you spend time with people, all that's up and you had to be more strategic about it, but this is one topic that I really have not put much thought into as time.
1:06:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't exactly fit this quote, but the first thing that came to mind for me was I've got a friend who is Vietnamese, studied in the U.S. continues to live there like 10 years, and she currently has a green card.
1:07:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And every now and then I'll talk to her and she's kind of like, yeah, I'm staying until I get my passport, which is like apparently in the U.S. immigration system like unknown.
1:07:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't really know when you're going to get it.
1:07:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You just kind of
1:07:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And the green card has certain limitations, like you have to be in the U.S. or an amount of time a year or something like that.
1:07:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And every time she tells me, I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, so there's probably hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people in the U.S. who are literally just waiting for something to have zero, literally zero control over.
1:07:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it just controls her life basically.
1:07:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So every time I have a call whether that's the first thing I think I think of.
1:07:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, it's just kind of like, wow, I've got a U.S. passport and I don't even want to live in the U.S.
1:07:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of ironic, right?
1:07:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're different positions.
1:07:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, everyone has a different need and want.
1:07:58
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the first thing I thought about.
1:07:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know,
1:08:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It taught me a lot about how people prioritize in life, what really matters to them, why it matters to them, because it's also a lot very dependent on personal circumstances, like it's easy for me to say that, right?
1:08:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But I already have a US passport and I am American.
1:08:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's super easy for me to say that.
1:08:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, I guess people want that, right?
1:08:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're willing to do a lot to do it.
1:08:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Even look at the Trump card, right?
1:08:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently you can spend $5 million and you can get it basically overnight, apparently.
1:08:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was my first thought on that.
1:08:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Ken, we have two questions left.
1:08:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The next one is you keep searching for the right moment, not realizing that waiting is the most subtle form of self-sabotage.
1:08:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
1:08:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's actually what you talked about.
1:08:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you don't think about time because you just enjoy every day.
1:08:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:08:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
1:08:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you don't really get question.
1:08:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't let...
1:08:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfection be the enemy of good, right?
1:08:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You hear Voltaire.
1:08:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it originally came for Voltaire, but I think Barack Obama kind of like made it popular, right?
1:09:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's so easy to kind of like make the, um, the waiting, uh, get better at it.
1:09:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know,
1:09:11
[SPEAKER_00]: next year, 26 is a year, I'll look into the camera.
1:09:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to talk into the camera.
1:09:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I spent 30 minutes in, but it's like that was like my thought four or five years ago.
1:09:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So this idea of like waiting, but instead you could just shape it by just making the decision, but that's I think one of the hardest things to do.
1:09:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very difficult to have that.
1:09:29
[SPEAKER_00]: that that will power to to be in present moment, right?
1:09:33
[SPEAKER_00]: To really flip that switch and go, I'm gonna live in the present moment and just and give it all I got.
1:09:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tough thing to do.
1:09:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think even 70, 80-year-old people are afflicted with this from from the beginning of time.
1:09:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Ken, that wraps up our 15 questions.
1:09:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Really cool stuff.
1:09:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We went through it a bit fast, but I think we covered pretty much all the bases here.
1:09:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the first time we're doing it on this podcast, this kind of format.
1:09:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So, big thanks.
1:10:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me.
1:10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Vitt Settara, for allowing me to be in the studio with other guests and here today with you.
1:10:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I have one last question, sir.
1:10:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So I ask all guests on the podcast this.
1:10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We have you on the show today for a lot of different reasons.
1:10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Ken.
1:10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: What's one thing that keeps you up and curious that you want to learn about, is that we can have a guest on this show and help answer for you?
1:10:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm always curious about love and in a very general way, not just romantic love, but I'm always...
1:10:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Obsess with, like, how can people become closer?
1:10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Families, cultures across political spectrum, openness.
1:10:46
[SPEAKER_00]: How do people become more kind to each other?
1:10:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very interested in that topic.
1:10:52
[SPEAKER_00]: People who can somehow manage to bring love and kindness to our lives through openness,
1:11:01
[SPEAKER_00]: are people that I'm generally interested in.
1:11:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And whether they're professionals at sports, or business, or artists, I believe our religions talk about this idea of love.
1:11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, we don't need to get into all the philosophical tenets or canonical teachings in the doctrines of these religions if we just know that there's only one thing that exists.
1:11:24
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, God is love.
1:11:25
[SPEAKER_00]: If we can think of like we are all one, I think that's the most important thing that all scientists and all writers and artists are, if we're capable of bringing the world together and not dividing it, I think that's the most important thing.
1:11:38
[SPEAKER_01]: The first thing I thought about when you were saying that was like, like,
1:11:42
[SPEAKER_01]: especially given our context as Vietnamese Americans like how can people that are Vietnamese Americans love Vietnam more because they don't absolutely you know they don't you right they don't even want to travel here because they want to stay over there you're gonna think all they know about Vietnam is just like fun but me basically yeah they just have no curiosity that's a crazy thing you bring up because when I think about like Vietnamese Americans
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_00]: they don't like a lot of us don't know anything about Vietnam.
1:12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Our motherland and even people who've left for 50 years, they don't know that Vietnam is such a beautiful place with beautiful humans and that's something.
1:12:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:12:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And the love and the kindness has gone, you know, it's evaporated and it's sad.
1:12:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I talked about this with some other folks.
1:12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe with you, I can't remember, maybe in passing, but maybe look at all these other Asian cultures in the US.
1:12:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The ones out of the strongest, still with the homeland is like Chinese and Indian, at least from like a traveling back, because they have family or other reasons.
1:12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And they all speak the language, generally speaking.
1:12:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And you look at the Asian cultures that don't, Japanese, which is ironic because people love Japanese culture,
1:12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: minority and ethnic minority and the US none of them speak Japanese like literally I don't I can't even the ones in like Hawaii Who are like fully ethnically job, they don't speak anything which is like really weird because You know, it's easy for them to go back like actually like financially and generally speaking for travel purposes I'm terrified that happens today
1:13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Vietnamese Americans.
1:13:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, second, third generation.
1:13:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be terrifying.
1:13:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to live past that day when I see Vietnamese families forgetting the language and the culture and becoming fully Americanized.
1:13:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But it will happen.
1:13:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's happening right now.
1:13:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's nothing I can see particularly stopping it.
1:13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, that's all another.
1:13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, guys.
1:13:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
1:13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, everyone, for being on listening another episode of the Vietnam Innovators podcast.
1:13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a special one with our friend Ken.
1:13:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Check out his podcast.
1:13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's called the Vietnamese podcast.
1:13:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all over wherever you get your content.
1:13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: He's interviewed a lot of cool people.
1:13:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Quick shout out to Boundwin as well, the director of the stringer.
1:13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that was one of his more latest podcasts.
1:14:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to check that out, because that's quite an interesting one in itself.
1:14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So a quick little shot out there to bow can thank you for joining the studio and hope to have you here again very soon Thank you.
1:14:13
[SPEAKER_00]: How I appreciate it and then we'll get another session of you on my podcast.
1:14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh cool cool.
1:14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Very good guys.
1:14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: See you guys next time.
1:14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
1:14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
1:14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you