Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #300: Kevin Patterson-University of Central Missouri

Transcript

#300: Kevin Patterson-University of Central Missouri · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

0:02
You're listening to the Gil Athletics Connections podcast
0:05
with host Mike Cunningham. Track and field world UNL tuned
0:12
in to our humble servant Mike Cunningham for another
0:16
extraordinary message for Gil Athletics Connections.
0:21
Welcome back here to the Gil Athletics Connections Podcast,
0:23
the number one podcast in the world according to my 11 year
0:28
old daughter. And that means everything to me
0:30
and nothing else. So it doesn't matter what you
0:31
think. So Cassidy, love you, Daddy
0:33
loves you. Thank you so much for being such
0:35
a big fan here. My name is Mike Cunningham.
0:37
I am your host here at the podcast as well as the National
0:41
Business Development manager here for GAIL Athletics.
0:44
You didn't come here to know who I am, though.
0:45
I'm super excited. I'm going to get hopped right
0:47
into it. Help me welcome the head coach
0:49
of the University of Central Missouri.
0:51
We're going to find out. They're, they're jennies.
0:53
They're mule. We're going to figure out this
0:54
whole animal thing. You know how much I love
0:56
mascots. Help me welcome the wise, the
0:58
wonderful Mr. Kevin Patterson. Kevin, how are you, my friend?
1:01
Hey, I'm doing great, super excited to be with you.
1:04
Love the podcast and and can't wait to to tell my story and and
1:09
talk track and field for a few hours.
1:11
I love it, man. Your story matters.
1:13
And you know, I tell that to people because, well, I believe
1:15
it. You know, everybody's story is
1:18
unique. Everybody's story has value to
1:21
others and to themselves and to their own family and friends.
1:23
So, you know, I kind of pinch myself every once in a while
1:27
that, you know, this is my job. I get to uplift and honor
1:30
coaches around the country. And I'm excited to do that with
1:33
you today here, my friend. Yeah, I'm excited.
1:36
You know, I kind of brought it up during the intro.
1:38
I do want to tackle it first and forth.
1:39
So what is a well, I know what a maybe I think I know what a mule
1:43
is, but what's a Jenny? Maybe you had to learn this as
1:46
well because we're going to learn this as well.
1:47
Absolutely. Yeah, your your rookie year here
1:49
at Central Missouri. What, what is the what, what's
1:51
the difference between a mule and a Jenny?
1:53
And what, what, what have you learned?
1:55
You so so a mule is, you know, and, and I might get this wrong
1:58
as well, but I think it's a combination between a a horse
2:02
and a donkey. So the mule is the the male.
2:06
Yeah, and. Then Jenny is the the female
2:10
mule, so. So a mule and a donkey are
2:14
different. They're different.
2:16
Yes. That's why I hedged when I said
2:19
maybe I'm going to learn because I thought in my head a mule is a
2:21
donkey, just another name, but it is a different a combination
2:24
of two. I wish my wife was here.
2:26
She did a deep dive. She's, she's a science teacher,
2:29
so she knows everything about them.
2:32
So one of the, one of the really cool things is obviously, you
2:36
know, we're in Warrensburg, MO, right next to the, the Whiteman
2:40
Air Force Base, which is where we, we house all our B2 bombers
2:44
here in the United States. But it was always a military
2:48
town. So in World War 1 and the barn
2:51
still exists, they're actually turning into a brewery.
2:55
So I'm pretty excited about that.
2:56
But so where they housed all the mules for World War One was in
3:01
downtown Warrensburg, probably about three blocks from campus.
3:05
So a really, really cool story where, you know, I think what
3:10
anyone, you know, when, when I call them the first time and
3:13
they do that research and they're like, you guys are the
3:16
mules. Like what is this?
3:18
You know, it's, it's a super unique mascot, but a really,
3:21
really cool story behind how we became the mules and jennies,
3:25
you know, so on, on this barn, still to this day, there's
3:29
there's a painting that says behind these doors lives the,
3:33
the world's meanest mules. So it's, you know, so we, we had
3:38
a lot to do with, you know, you know, you know, winning the
3:42
World War One and, and still to this day, you know, when, when
3:46
hurricane, you know, hits in North Carolina, they used, you
3:51
know, mule trains to help rescue people out of their, their homes
3:55
and things like that. So it's, it's, it's super unique
3:59
mascot, but a really, really cool one that that has a great
4:03
back story. So it's it's, it's a lot cooler
4:05
than than just being the Wildcats or something like that
4:08
kind of generic and it looks cool.
4:11
But you know, we, we have a great story behind that.
4:14
And, and I think our our programs and our university
4:17
really, you know, gets behind that, that mascots, you know,
4:21
being, you know, work horses and, and, and things like that.
4:24
So. Well, I love unique things in
4:26
general and I love college mascots.
4:29
So, you know, here's a unique college mascot and I, and I do
4:32
always love kind of the history behind mascot.
4:35
There always is something even a general, you know, talk about
4:37
general Wildcat or tiger, which is I think the, I think the most
4:40
common high school mascot is a tiger.
4:42
My, my high school was tigers as well.
4:44
Usually there's some story behind it like, you know, one of
4:49
your your brothers there in your area, the Pitt State gorillas.
4:54
And it's like, why is a gorilla in the middle of Kansas?
4:56
Like there actually is a reason why.
4:58
And a lot of sometimes those are student body LED back in the
5:01
day. But I love how they stick and I
5:03
love when you can build your culture around whatever positive
5:06
attributes when you talk about, you know, the steadfastness of a
5:09
of a mule and things like that. That's pretty cool.
5:11
And it's got to be because I can't think of too many school
5:16
where they have a, not technically a separate mascot
5:20
for the men and the women's athletics.
5:22
There's not many. You know Tennessee used to have
5:25
the Vols and Lady. Vols.
5:27
Yeah, that is technically different, but I can't even
5:29
think of any off top of my head that have two different ones.
5:32
Yeah, I I can't either. And another cool thing is we we
5:35
actually have live mascots. So if you come to football
5:37
games, basketball games, special events, you're going to see the
5:41
mules running around. So it's it's pretty cool.
5:43
Well, PETA is calling, so we're going to hop.
5:45
We're going to ignore that call and and hop into.
5:48
I mean they. They have this fancy farm that
5:50
they live on. I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure.
5:54
Hey I used to work at Mississippi State and loved the
5:57
bulldog so I I do like live mascots.
6:00
I also understand why people have controversy and all that
6:04
good stuff. But anyway, Kevin, let's hop in
6:07
our Wayback Machine here. Where does you know?
6:10
Assuming you are an athlete of track and field in some form or
6:12
fashion, where does track and field start for you my friend?
6:16
So I'm, I'm one of the younger cousins, you know, I'm on my
6:19
dad's side. So, you know, I always looked up
6:22
to my, my cousins who, who ran track, they, they played
6:25
basketball, they ran cross country, you know, so, so early
6:29
on, you know, growing up in, in, in Hobart, IN, you know, that's
6:34
what I wanted to be, you know, I wanted, I looked up to those
6:37
guys. So I did never had, you know,
6:40
reservations of ever running, you know, track and field.
6:43
So it's, it's something that I did because my older cousins did
6:47
it and I wanted to be like them. And, and from day one, I really
6:50
fell in love with the sport. You know, the city of Hobart is
6:54
just a really special place for me, very similar to, to your
6:58
background, Mike. You know, we, we grew around, up
7:01
around industries and, and I'm sure you had a, a ton of, of
7:05
family members that that worked, you know, those, those blue
7:08
collar steel mill jobs and things like that.
7:12
But I, I was immediately filled with, with some incredible
7:16
mentors and, and just some really, really special people
7:19
from Betty Cunningham. You know, it's at the middle
7:25
school level. You know, she's still to this
7:27
day is running marathons and could kick my butt in one to
7:30
tell you that right now. But you know, she's filled with
7:33
so many people, you know that that love the sport that we're
7:39
passionate about it. You know, Hobart was a big time
7:42
football school with with down howl and and being those
7:46
legends. I was always kind of smaller
7:48
until to really my high school years.
7:50
So, you know, my mom, you know, tried to keep me away from from
7:54
football as as much as possible, But you know, really love to to
7:58
play basketball, baseball. I played anything and everything
8:02
but you know, from day one my, my passion was always in in
8:05
track and field. Did you gravitate towards any
8:09
specific events or, you know, typically, hopefully I should
8:12
say, typically when we're younger, we do them all in some
8:15
form or fashion. What was your event group
8:18
progress through through high school?
8:21
Yeah, you know, so, so middle school I was doing everything,
8:23
you know, I was doing long jump, I was doing hurdles very poorly.
8:26
But by the time, you know, when I, I, I joined the, my freshman
8:30
year cross country, you know, so really became quickly kind of a
8:34
middle distance runner running the 400 and the 800 and the four
8:37
by eights. You know, in in high school, I
8:40
ran for a year underneath Jim Johnston, just the legendary
8:44
Indiana coach, national champion in in the pole vault in the
8:48
1950s at Purdue, Just I mean, just an incredible, incredible
8:53
person. You know, So I got the honor to
8:56
to to run with him on his last year and just was just this
9:00
super unique guy that was just ahead of his time, you know,
9:05
with lifted weights before anybody before that, you know, I
9:09
think it's it's kind of cool is, is, you know, you know, a lot of
9:13
times football coaches really, you know, they don't want their
9:17
athletes to to be coached by anybody else.
9:20
But, you know, even a legend in Don Howard in in the the city of
9:24
Hobart knew that coach Johnson was ahead of his time.
9:27
So his best lineman, his best quarterbacks, running backs and
9:32
the day they went and lift with with coach JJ, you know, so that
9:35
was really, really cool. You know, having that that
9:38
legend from there, you know, that year, he also had some
9:41
incredible, you know, assistant coaches that that really shaped
9:45
my, you know, high school years and and how I viewed the sport,
9:49
how I viewed myself. Coach Byrd, coach Blake, coach
9:54
Black, coach May and then, you know, my senior year at coach
9:59
Arthur Holtz, who is still the the the head coach over at
10:02
Hobart took, you know, a teaching position and and it's
10:06
you know those you know, I so so I grew up with the with the
10:11
priest of beer learning disability, really poor grades.
10:17
To be completely honest with you, Mike, you know, I, I, you
10:20
know, I thought I was going to be working in those steel mills,
10:22
you know, like my family and, and there's nothing wrong with
10:25
that. They have, you know, my, my
10:27
grandpa was always so proud that, you know, he worked in the
10:30
steel mills. My family worked in the steel
10:32
mills. You know, he would always tell
10:34
people that, you know, Hey, we built this country, You know, it
10:37
took a lot of pride in that, you know, but, you know, coach May
10:42
my sophomore year came in and, and took over, you know, for, in
10:45
our history departments. And, you know, didn't really
10:48
have a background of, of, you know, my freshman year, which
10:51
was, you know, I, I think I finished the year just the good
10:55
enough to to stay eligible to run track.
10:57
And that was the only thing I was striving for.
10:59
If it took AD, you know, in English class to to be able to,
11:03
to run the next meet, I was going to get AD and there was
11:05
there wasn't going to be nothing else.
11:08
You know, he, he pushed me to really, you know, find, find a
11:12
better purpose, you know, where there was other options beyond
11:18
just the steel mill or working in the shop and things like
11:20
that. And you know, and you push me.
11:22
If if this is something that you want to do and and you have
11:26
those opportunities to, to do it further beyond high school that
11:30
that I should, I should chase those dreams.
11:33
I kind of I kind of want to double click on that.
11:35
If you'll allow me, Kevin, about, you know, your learning
11:38
disability and something that you said there that I just kind
11:41
of recently caught a, you know, I live my life on Twitter, I
11:45
like to say, and I recently caught a, a tweet that kind of
11:47
struck me as I started thinking about my own background, the
11:51
stereotypical background of athletes and coaches and grades
11:55
and things like that. You said that, you know, track
11:59
and let's expand this to sports, although, you know, obviously
12:02
we're going to stay focused on track here, that, you know,
12:04
track meant so much to you. And I want to dig into that as
12:08
well. You obviously had a great
12:09
relationship with your coaches that whatever it took
12:13
academically. Well, that's what I was going to
12:16
do if it if I needed AD, if I needed an A, if I had to ace
12:18
this paper, this test. And I recently saw this tweet
12:23
talking about kind of something like that of like it might have
12:25
actually been Tony Holler, who we just had as a guest a few
12:29
weeks ago that you know, when a kid is, whether it's academic
12:34
issues or home it you know what, what would you call it?
12:40
Discipline issues, you know, typically one of the things that
12:44
we do is we take away extracurriculars like, well,
12:46
hey, until you get your grades up, you can't do.
12:48
And I remember actually, I think it was grades, I might have been
12:50
disciplinary. I remember I couldn't do middle
12:53
school football, which I'm kind of thankful that I did.
12:57
I did high school football. But I'm kind of glad, you know,
12:58
I was like, all right, well, I probably didn't need to have my
13:00
head banged around, but but I remember I either got in trouble
13:02
or grade or something. And my mom said, well, you know,
13:05
well then I'm going to take you out of middle school football so
13:09
you can focus on your grades. And, and I think it was Tony.
13:11
I'll, I'll, I'll give him, I'm sure he would think this way.
13:13
So I'm going to give him credit since I can't think of that
13:16
person. It was like, you know, great
13:18
sports sometimes and other extracurricular activities,
13:21
chess clubs, whatever. Give kids structure and
13:25
motivation. And you're talking about like,
13:27
because it makes me feel like hearing your story and, and you,
13:31
you comment off this statement here that if, if it would have
13:35
been taken away from you, it was like, Kevin, you're not doing
13:37
good enough in history and chemistry and things like that.
13:39
So no more track until you get your grades up.
13:42
That'll give you more time to study.
13:44
I'm not sure. It doesn't sound like maybe that
13:47
would have worked in your case. Not at all, you know, so I
13:51
struggled and still struggle in the academic and, you know,
13:55
landscape of of those things significantly tracking sports
14:00
was was the even playing field for me.
14:02
You know, I, I knew, you know, with, with my disability, you
14:07
know, I, I would be taken out of class, I would miss recess to,
14:12
to, to work extra on, you know, my math, you know, tests that I
14:16
did did poorly on things like that, you know, so, so early on.
14:20
And you know, when you have that, that learning disability,
14:24
you, you know, that you're different and, and this is
14:27
hereditary, you know, my grandpa, you know, struggle to
14:32
read. I don't believe that he even
14:35
graduated. My dad barely graduated.
14:40
So I, I knew, you know, I'm a father now that, that there
14:43
would be that possibility that that this goes down to my
14:47
children. And it has, you know, you know,
14:50
they built that speech, apraxia and things like that.
14:54
And it's, that's, that's a challenge as a father.
14:58
But early on, like, you know, I, I think this goes on, you know,
15:03
further, you know, my coaching career and, and how I, I view
15:07
being a coach is like, I wanted my academic journey to, to be so
15:15
much more than mine. I wanted that opportunity to go
15:19
to college. And, you know, I'll be honest
15:22
with you. When I went to college, I never
15:23
thought that I would graduate because that's something that,
15:27
that my father couldn't do, my grandfather couldn't do, you
15:32
know, So when, when I got that degree, it was really, really
15:34
cool. But I, I knew that's, you know,
15:40
my, my children might struggle with this as well.
15:44
So I wanted to be that role model to them.
15:48
So I went and got my, my master's degree as well, you
15:53
know, so I, I want to make sure that, you know, because I was
15:57
pushed, you know, by my incredible family to be my very,
16:01
very best. That's in return, you know, when
16:05
you know, you know, I have a daughter that's in second grade
16:07
and she has a tough day, you know, and when we do those
16:12
things, you know, that, that she knows that, that dad understands
16:18
it's going to be hard. There's, there's that path
16:22
forward if you really work hard and, and, and, and put in the
16:27
extra work to, to make sure that, you know, there's, there's
16:30
a successful path and, and she can become whatever she decides
16:36
to be. You know, I thought, you know,
16:38
that was, you know, I'll give my, my grandpa the biggest shout
16:41
out in the world is, you know, he worked in the steel mills and
16:46
you know, my cousins did that. My, my dad drove a, a a truck
16:51
over the road his entire life, but he would just gush about his
16:55
family. I was a very average collegiate
16:59
athlete and we'll get, I'm sure we'll get to that.
17:02
But I, I, I could still remember running at Purdue and, and I
17:05
think I got second in the slow heat, but he thought it was the
17:08
greatest thing ever. And, you know, he would go to
17:11
the grocery store that next week and, you know, anybody that
17:14
knows my grandpa knows that he's a talker, but he would, he would
17:17
cornier in, in the, in the milk aisle and tell you about the
17:19
race that I just ran. And he was so proud of, of his
17:24
his sons and, and, and daughter and, and, and just, you know,
17:27
being the very best, you know, worker in the steel mill or, or
17:31
at the trucking company that my work my dad worked for.
17:34
And, and, you know, I, I think being around that growing up,
17:40
you know, it, it really just kind of reinforces it.
17:43
It doesn't matter what you do, but in my family, you better be
17:47
the very best at it. You know, I, I think that's
17:50
important when we were talking about, you know, the impact
17:53
coaches make and our parents make, and then maybe the impact
17:56
your coaches made, you know, you talked about we will get into
18:00
your, your college years here in a little bit, but you, you know,
18:05
I'll say society, but it's easy. Let's just say it this way.
18:07
It's easy. And I don't like to blame social
18:09
media because before social media, newspapers did this as
18:12
well and the local coffee shop would do this.
18:17
It's easy to pick up and talk about the stud, you know, in
18:21
track and field, the stud athlete in track and that, you
18:24
know what they're doing and they're setting records are
18:26
going to state and all those kind of things.
18:27
And it's a little bit harder to know that.
18:30
Oh well, there's a hundred kids on the team and even that 100th
18:32
kid is important it no, they're not the record setters, but
18:38
that's OK, because guess what? There's a hundred other kids
18:41
that aren't on the track team that are doing this.
18:43
And you can insert any sport you want on the football team,
18:45
tennis team, etcetera, in that, you know, the, the percentage of
18:50
kids that go on to be a college athlete is, is super small.
18:54
I think it's like, I, I know there's no like official
18:57
records. We'd like to do it off the
18:58
incident of lay records, but we forget that there's also any IA
19:00
opportunities and JUCO opportunities and things.
19:02
But it's, it's, it's under 10%. I would be willing to bet it's
19:04
still a single digit that going to college.
19:07
And then you know, the percentage that going from
19:08
college that can make any kind of living.
19:11
But however you want to define that as you know, post
19:12
collegiate is even smaller. So, so if so, if this sport
19:17
boils down to, well, only the kids that go to college matter
19:20
in our sport, well, golly, we're missing 90 plus percent of the
19:24
individuals that do our sport. And by the way, that's just
19:27
because of statistics alone. That's where the majority of our
19:29
coaches are going to come from. Is that other 90% not the, the
19:32
superstar? So anyway, so, so I, I
19:35
appreciate that that kind of connection of like, well, if
19:37
you're going to do it, you're going to do it the best that you
19:39
can. And, and that matters just like
19:41
you said, the people who work in the steel mill, that matters
19:44
just as much as the CEO of whatever big company, things
19:47
like that. We, we need, we need all and
19:49
everything in between. So I, I recognize that and big
19:52
time. How did you, you know, as you
19:55
were struggling academically, some people, everybody's a
19:58
little different and this may go towards your your own children
20:02
now as you're talking about as a parent, you know you.
20:06
Outside looking in, had the ability to have a chip on your
20:09
shoulder, not a chip on your shoulder, but like, oh, I'll be
20:11
the first that that that's a form of chip on your shoulder.
20:13
You're not going against anybody.
20:15
But it's like, oh, I don't have this example in front of me of
20:17
my grandpa and my, and my my dad as far as going to college.
20:20
So I'm I've got I'm going to overcome that.
20:24
You know, you have children now who have a an example in front
20:27
of them of like, oh, wow, even with this, I can go on to
20:30
college and become very successful.
20:32
So they're not going to have that chip on their shoulder.
20:34
They're going to have their a different battle to over
20:36
overcome. How did you think about like
20:39
when you're thinking about college and even athleticism
20:43
with because again, percentage is small.
20:45
I mean, just going to college would have been a big deal.
20:47
You would college actually compete?
20:49
That's that's unbelievable. Actually, many of us don't.
20:53
I didn't, I didn't get to compete in college.
20:55
How did you, was it a chip on your shoulder?
20:57
Was it I'm going to overcome the odds?
21:00
Was it just I just want to be a college athlete?
21:02
How did you think about those next steps?
21:04
And as it relates to like maybe the influence your coaches had
21:07
on that feeling as well? Yeah, you know, so, so I, I went
21:13
to the University of, of Saint Francis I, I signed there and,
21:16
and was there for two years and it was pretty similar to.
21:20
In Indiana. In Indiana.
21:21
Fort Wayne. Because we have one here in in
21:23
Illinois as well and there's probably a couple others out
21:26
there. So, yeah, yeah.
21:27
That's got it. Fort Wayne, IN.
21:29
Hold on, I know this the the Saints, right?
21:32
No, they're, they're the Cougars.
21:35
Cougars. They're they're blue and white,
21:36
if I remember. Yeah.
21:37
OK, I had that right. OK, the Cougars.
21:39
Got it. OK, keep going.
21:40
They're the Cougars so and, and it was, it was pretty similar,
21:44
you know, I was just doing enough to to kind of get back
21:47
by, you know, I think the biggest difference for me, you
21:53
know, between high school and college.
21:56
In high school, my mentors were always my teachers and my
22:01
coaches. And to this day, those are
22:05
people that, you know, they're top of my list, you know, people
22:08
that that I want to make sure that I, I don't let down.
22:13
But in college, I didn't really have that relationship with a
22:16
coach. It was with my teammates that
22:19
really pushed me to do those things.
22:22
So, you know, at Saint Francis, you know, I something
22:25
incredible, you know, roommates that I still stay in touch with,
22:28
but. Before we get into actual
22:29
college, go back to high school, sometimes well meaning adults
22:35
and and almost stay focused on your your track coaches there
22:38
don't want our kids to fail And and I say well meaning because
22:44
failure is a part of life and we have to allow our kids and
22:48
ourselves to to fail, try new things and fail did.
22:52
How was there the the high school coaches you had when you
22:56
know you weren't a great athlete?
22:57
I'm hearing per SE, we know you struggled academically.
23:00
It's a little bit like a mirror. By the way, I it wasn't a great
23:04
student either and definitely was not the greatest athlete.
23:07
But I wondered what was their attitude towards you when you
23:10
started getting into you maybe junior and senior year of high
23:12
school? Like, man, I love this sport.
23:15
I want to keep doing this. Was there any like, Hey, Kevin,
23:19
you know, just going to college is going to be a big deal for
23:22
you and your like, was there any of that or was it like complete
23:25
encouragement? I was like, dude, go try.
23:26
You might not do well by the way, but go try it.
23:29
What was there kind of trying to protect you from being from
23:32
failing as A to being a college athlete?
23:34
Or was there like encouragement of like, man, go go give it a
23:37
try buddy. No, that they encouraged me
23:39
100%, you know, when and you know, that's what gave me that
23:43
confidence. You know, I, I think, you know,
23:46
I, I think in anything that you do, whether it be coaching,
23:48
whether it be in, you know, in sales or, you know, you know,
23:53
making steel, you know, if you have that safety net where
23:56
you're not, if you're not afraid to try something that might
23:59
might be successful because you're afraid to fail, I think
24:03
having that safety net is so important.
24:06
And, and that's what they gave me.
24:07
They gave me that safety net. You know, I think they saw my
24:10
passion and my work ethic. They, they saw me have success
24:16
on the track that would in return, you know, find me some
24:19
success in the classroom. You know, I, I really turned
24:23
that around, you know, you know, you know, I, I made the honor
24:26
roll a few times in, in high school after that, you know,
24:28
they, they challenged me with those things and, and really put
24:31
a lot more effort into, you know, doing the, the things that
24:36
I I needed to do to be successful.
24:39
You know, without their encouragement, I would have
24:41
never take taken to SAT, you know, with, without their
24:45
encouragement, I wouldn't have taken it a second time.
24:47
So I could have gotten into University of Saint Francis, you
24:51
know, and you know, it was a, it was a special moment, you know,
24:56
for them following my college career and, and still to this
25:02
day, I'm, I'm super close with that group.
25:04
That's cool. All right, one of my favorite
25:06
cool. Actually, before I ask my
25:07
favorite question, what kind of track athlete were you?
25:10
And what I mean by that? I honestly, I don't know that
25:12
I've ever asked a single guest what their actual PRS were,
25:15
because it doesn't matter to me whether you're and and we've had
25:17
Olympians on here and we've had people and we have people that
25:19
haven't even didn't even do track on the show as well.
25:23
So I don't really care that type.
25:24
When I say what type of athlete were you?
25:26
What I mean is as it relates to, you know, spoiler, we know you
25:28
become a track coach. Were you the type of athlete
25:31
that like asked a lot of questions like, Hey, what are we
25:34
doing for the workout today? What why did we do this
25:37
yesterday and this today? Not in a accusatory, but like in
25:39
a mindset or were you like, because, because this is the
25:42
majority of us, right? We're just, we're, you know,
25:44
we're dumb 1718 year old kids. We're just like, all right, what
25:46
are we running today, coach? All right, let's go do it.
25:47
You know what? What kind of like athlete were
25:49
you back as a you know, as a teenager?
25:52
I, I was, you know, I was a huge dork in general in pretty much
25:56
anything I did, but, but especially when it came to, to
25:58
track and field. So I was doing the research.
26:01
I mean, we're at the age right now where like, you know, I, I,
26:05
I think, you know, high school was the first time that I, I
26:07
ever got Internet at my house. You know so.
26:10
Is that one like there's like 3 computers in high school who we
26:13
went to? It's crazy to think that, but
26:16
anytime that I could jump on, you know, any website that was
26:20
about track and field, you know, I would go to Barnes and Noble
26:24
and look in the sports section. If they had any books about
26:27
training or anything like that, you know, I was buying them, you
26:31
know, and I was trying something, you know, and I, I
26:33
think, you know, you know, Fast forward to where I'm at right
26:36
now. What, what has made me
26:38
successful in, in what I'm doing right now is because I had to,
26:41
to, to get every oz out of myself, you know, any secret
26:45
that was out there, I better find or else I was going to get
26:47
my butt kicked pretty good, you know.
26:50
So, you know, I think, you know, I think, you know, you know,
26:54
Fast forward to what I'm doing now is, is having those, those,
26:57
you know, being, you know, average and trying to be a
27:01
little step above average, You know, I had to work that extra
27:05
hard, you know, and, and my coaches saw that, you know, and
27:08
I think any coach that that, that sees that and sees that
27:12
work ethic really gravitates that, that, that student
27:15
athletes, you know, so, you know, it was, it was awesome.
27:19
So one of my favorite questions because I'm the guy I used to do
27:23
this more. I haven't done this actually as
27:24
much in the last 5-6 years. Whenever I'd get introduced to a
27:27
new coach like, Oh, this is our GA or you know, this is their
27:31
first full time job, I'd always say So what did you major?
27:33
And you know, they always invariably tell me something
27:36
super smart chemistry architect, you know, all this stuff and I'd
27:39
be like, and and yet you want to be a track coach.
27:42
Like you could be doing so many amazing things And and you know,
27:45
no one's a big fan of track coaches that I am, but I'm like,
27:48
you could be curing cancer and you're going to try to make this
27:50
kid PR in the eye job. What what are you doing?
27:52
You know, but but what I get out here with this question is so
27:56
when you're looking to go to college and you end up going to
27:57
University of Saint Francis there in Indiana, what were you
28:01
thinking about like to major in like it still boggles me that we
28:05
make 18 year olds pick like something that's going to affect
28:07
their lives for. The.
28:09
Rest of their lives. It's crazy.
28:10
What were you thinking about? Was track coaching coaching
28:13
track at all in the purview as a 1718 year old kid?
28:17
Oh, not even close. You know, I, I wouldn't have
28:19
known, you know, when I was 1718 year olds going to college, what
28:23
that path to become a, a college track coach was all about, you
28:27
know, exactly. So, so my, my biggest mentors
28:30
were, were my, my high school coaches, you know, so I
28:33
originally went into, into, you know, physical education, you
28:38
know, and, and wanted to kind of come become a, a teacher and,
28:41
and, and coach. Umm, I quickly found out that
28:44
wasn't for me, you know, and kind of switched to business.
28:47
So my focus, you know, you know, that was, you know, in the days
28:52
of, you know, movies like Boiler Room and yeah, things.
28:57
So that's what I was going to do.
28:59
I was going to do it the legit way.
29:02
So the FBI didn't come right off, but.
29:05
Hey by the way, shout out if you have not seen it.
29:07
I don't know that it's that big of a movie, even though it has
29:09
not It's incredible. Yeah, yeah.
29:13
I can't even think of yeah. It's a really like if you like
29:17
like what's a similar esque, like theme wise movie would be
29:21
like the wolf of Wall Street. Now that focus very much on that
29:24
dude. Jordan, I think was his name,
29:26
another great movie, by the way, but it but if you like, if you
29:29
remember that, if you saw a Wolf of Wall Street, remember that
29:31
scene where he gets his first job and he, you know, he calls
29:34
the, you know, the the people to sell in the stock and everybody
29:37
like, wow, holy crap, that's what the room is.
29:39
They're just trying to sell penny stocks essentially and
29:42
make the Commission and yeah, all that stuff.
29:44
It's a really good movie, but again, I don't know that a lot.
29:46
Of people. Know it so you got to check it
29:47
out. I agree.
29:49
I love, I love that it was like inspiration for you.
29:51
Like, yeah, it's all blowing the room.
29:53
It was like, I'd like to do that legally, but I'd like to do
29:55
that, yeah. You know, you know, they, they
29:57
were, they were driving the, you know, the fast cars.
29:59
But, but that's what I wanted to do, you know, and you know, I, I
30:03
graduated and you know, it was, it was a tough, you know, we
30:06
were in, during the recession when I graduated and it was a
30:09
tough job market, but I was lucky enough to, to get that
30:12
dream job. You know, I got a, a corporate
30:14
sales position at a company called Echo Global Logistics,
30:18
still based in, in Chicago. It said, you know, right when I
30:23
took the position and it went public, you know, I think they
30:26
were making $300 million back then, multiple billion dollar
30:29
company now. But I always, I went, you know,
30:34
talking with my recruits, you know, I talk about my journey,
30:36
but you know, I, I really pushed them to, you know, don't think
30:41
what I was thinking. I wanted to make a bunch of
30:43
money. You know, my goal was to live
30:45
downtown Chicago, go to as many White Sox and Bears games as
30:49
possible. And, and I had no idea, you
30:52
know, my, you know, my, my whole, you know, life outlook
30:57
is, is based on one movie. You know, I, you know, it's,
31:00
it's, you know, and, and Hollywood is going to, you know,
31:03
glamorize everything, you know, but I quickly learned, you know,
31:06
going in sales, especially doing logistics, you know, so that
31:11
was, that was the company, you know, we were shaking things
31:13
across the country, you know, and I found some success with
31:17
that, but my day literally revolved around getting Slim
31:23
Jims from point A to point B, you know, you know, and, and I,
31:28
I felt, felt no passion in that. You know, it was a pain in the
31:33
butt when my driver missed the delivery or something was, was,
31:40
you know, damaged in, in the process and, and it was just
31:44
miserable. And, and, you know, throughout
31:47
my college career, I always, you know, went back to Hobart and
31:51
helped out, you know, in a, in a volunteer role or, you know, a,
31:56
a small paid stipend role, you know, so, so again, you know, it
32:02
took the, the encouragement, you know, from, you know, that those
32:06
high school coaches to, you know, well, if you're not
32:08
passionate about what you're doing, go find something that
32:11
you are passionate about. And then that's really kind of
32:14
what made me make that change from from the business world to,
32:19
to intercollegiate athletics. So.
32:21
What was the first change? Yeah, what was the first change
32:25
into that? So what was the first job into
32:27
athletics? So, so the first, so you know,
32:30
kind of, you know, I was at a low point, kind of miserable
32:33
with what I did. And, and I met this guy.
32:35
I know you know him, Doug Eggert, you know, you know, and
32:40
you know, I drove to Fort Wayne where I went to school, so I was
32:43
familiar with it. And he gave me this incredible
32:46
offer. He said, I'm going to pay you
32:47
$0.00 and you can get your master's degree for free.
32:51
Well, I'm like I, you know, I would rather have the money, but
32:55
if this gets my foot in the door, you know, let's, let's do
32:57
it, you know, and I had some money saved up, you know, from,
33:00
from working. That's, you know, I, I took the
33:03
the leap of faith. How long did you do the job at
33:06
Echo? So I was just there for a little
33:09
over a year and I was. How do you, you know, it's
33:12
interesting, I've actually seen both sides to this as, as advice
33:19
and I and I actually kind of believe in both sides a little
33:21
bit. When you're young, you know, you
33:23
graduated college, you're 2223 ish, maybe 21 ish.
33:27
You know, you have so much life ahead of you.
33:30
It's the time to take a risk, Meaning try this job.
33:33
Like, like I, I get this advice from a guy named Gary Vee where
33:37
he talks about like, you know, what you want to do for a job
33:41
and career like a buffet, like go taste like, Oh, you, you
33:44
think maybe shipping logistics, go try that job and you think
33:47
track coaching, go get an intern over here.
33:49
Because even if you're at the age of 30 and you still don't,
33:53
and maybe that's when you finally decide, Oh, I want to go
33:55
do this XY or Z Dude, 30. That's I know when we were
33:59
teenagers, we thought 30 was like, I thought 30 was like 1
34:01
foot in the grave, like you were dead at 30.
34:03
In reality, now I'm like, dude, 30.
34:05
I finally found my career. That's 30 is when I started Gil.
34:07
That's my third career. I finally found what I was put
34:10
here for. But then I've also heard the
34:12
very opposite of like, oh, because you're so young, get a
34:15
job so we can put all, you know, as much money into, you know,
34:19
your retirement because of compounding interest, you'll be
34:21
a millionaire when you retire, things like that.
34:24
But there has to be some, I shouldn't say that what level of
34:29
fear. You know, you're in a job, you
34:32
got a job that's, I hate to say that's not easy.
34:34
I mean, you know, a job that's, you know, at least well paying
34:37
enough that you can live and things like that to go into
34:41
coaching. You've never Co you were helping
34:43
out. I get that.
34:45
But oh, and by the way, we're not going to pay you.
34:46
So there's a little bit of like, OK, wait a minute, I'm getting
34:49
paid at least every two weeks. I'm going to go do this.
34:52
How much fear? Or was it like super simple,
34:55
like, OK, I just I hate this logistics job so much.
35:00
I'm willing to go get paid 0 to get away.
35:02
From it, no, it was, it was the, it was the easiest decision that
35:06
I've ever made in my life. You know, leaving that, that,
35:10
you know, Doug's office, you know, it was a really cool, you
35:14
know, time in, in, in the, the history of the India Tech
35:18
program. You know, he was just taking
35:20
over as head coach. You know, really, you know, the,
35:23
the program itself was in a really bad place.
35:26
You know, the, the the coaches that he took over for just
35:29
weren't very good people, you know, weren't coaching for the
35:32
right reasons, made everything about themselves, You know, kind
35:36
of put fear, you know, in in the student athletes, you know,
35:42
threatening to to take away scholarships and things like
35:44
that for, you know, based on performances and things like
35:47
that. So it was, it was just in a
35:48
really bad space, but we had some amazing kids that were
35:52
hungry to get better and wanting to do the things the right way,
35:57
you know, So the the my first practice, the first time I was
36:00
in the office with Doug, like it was, I knew this is what I
36:05
wanted to do for the rest of my life all.
36:07
Right pause there because I definitely want to click into
36:09
that because I'm always I wish I could remember like my first day
36:13
of Gil, my first day of coach. Like I wish I had those memories
36:15
and you seem to have that. So I'm going to click on that
36:17
first. I've got to give Doug a shout
36:19
out. He Gil podcast alum.
36:21
So if you're whatever podcast after you're using now, when you
36:24
get done with this episode, you can listen to Doug and he is and
36:27
tell you how popular Mr. Doug is here.
36:30
You know, NAIA national champion, I don't know, a
36:32
billion times or something like that.
36:34
He is, you know, we're past episode 300 now he is out of all
36:38
our episodes, he is he's hanging on, but he is number 10 most
36:43
downloaded, most listened to episode.
36:45
And I think I love that. I love that blue schex Nader's
36:47
number one first of all, cuz that's my mentor and you know,
36:50
big school SU and all those kind of things.
36:51
I love that. But I love that a coach from
36:53
Indiana Tech is number 10 out of all the amazing coaches we've
36:57
had, by the way. So go check his episode out.
37:00
All right, Kevin, first day, first practice.
37:05
Your face shine. By the way, when you kind of
37:08
intern, I can see you playing the movie in your head like a
37:12
duck to water. You just fell into it and this
37:14
was like, this is the greatest thing in the world.
37:17
Absolutely. I'll I'll even back that up to
37:19
the interview. So I mean, Doug is, is, is this
37:21
super unique guy. You know, we we sat in the
37:24
interview and he he added up the the conference meet.
37:27
This is this is the middle of the summer.
37:29
It's probably end of July. You know, we're we're two weeks
37:32
away from reporting as well. And they hadn't won conference,
37:36
you know, in the past couple years.
37:38
But he, you know, he, he mapped it out.
37:40
This is what we're going to do here.
37:41
This is what we're going to do here and we're going to win a
37:42
conference championship. You know, so it was just, and
37:46
that's something that I still will do.
37:48
You know, I'll come in, you know, middle of of indoor season
37:52
and every month Monday I'm looking at, you know, T fers,
37:55
I'm looking at the list. I'm I'm kind of, you know,
37:57
seeing where we're at when it comes to those things.
37:59
So immediately from from day one, that's something that that
38:03
dog put in my head. How much?
38:05
Let's just talk about this. You know, I should have named
38:08
the podcast The Tangent Podcast because your host here is a
38:11
tangent guy. Now I'm going to self admit that
38:14
I also did this as well. So I have this picture exactly
38:17
what you're talking about, this kind of beautiful mind picture.
38:19
You've got, you know, 60 and the 200 and the 460 hurdle and you
38:22
got all the, you know, you got this school there, you know,
38:26
this athletes peg for number 1 and blah, blah, blah.
38:28
We need this many points and blah blah.
38:29
Why do we do this to ourselves? And what I mean by that is you
38:33
have been through enough conference meets and national
38:35
meets and such like that, that there's always not even one,
38:38
there's a handful of just things that go that you just no one
38:42
ever predicted the kid, you know, the the favorite and the
38:44
hurdles falls. And so there goes those 10
38:46
points and now you're up two point.
38:47
Why do we map this out? It just seems, I don't know that
38:51
a football coach maps out their entire game of like, OK, well,
38:54
they're going to score on their first one and then we'll stop
38:56
them for two defenses. But we do as track coaches all
38:59
20 something events. We try to predict the future and
39:02
it and I've had coaches come on here and say, oh, and I I had it
39:06
down to the point. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
39:07
maybe, maybe. But the the addition to those
39:11
points did not map out how you said it because someone dropped
39:14
a baton. Somebody had a huge PR that you
39:16
didn't see, you know, things like that.
39:18
Why do we do this to ourselves? And I know you learned it from
39:21
Doug. Why does Doug do this and pass
39:22
it on to to you? Yeah, because we just want to be
39:25
stressed the entire time, you know, we want to, we want to do
39:29
those things. No, it's it's our our, our, our
39:32
competitive nature. Do you think, do you think it's
39:35
actually here's here's here's what we believe is now, you
39:37
know, I sit on a different fence.
39:39
So when I coached for 10 years, I, I was this monkey that did
39:42
it. You know, here's the here's
39:43
exactly how it's going to go down.
39:44
It never happened. I wonder now having you know
39:49
again, I I sit in a pretty unique place.
39:50
I have deeply interviewed 300 plus coaches of all levels.
39:55
I wonder if it's our grasp at trying to keep control.
40:01
Yeah, I could see that, you know, I know, you know, when I
40:07
do it, you know, I'll bring it down to to my my student
40:11
athletes, you know, to kind of create that confidence.
40:14
Hey, you know, hey, yeah, I think, you know, you know,
40:17
because we, I think every coach has has a different way of doing
40:21
those things. Like I'll, you know, if it's
40:24
tied in the 60, I'll, I'll take every, both of those athletes
40:28
top three times and average it out.
40:31
And I'll use that to, to motivate my student athlete.
40:34
Like, hey, you know, yeah, so and so might be 100th of a, you
40:38
know, second faster than you, but your average, you're just
40:41
more consistent. And that's what matters at a
40:43
championship and, and, and things like that, you know, So
40:47
everything that I do, I, I, you know, I, I try to kind of bring
40:49
that, that, that confidence when it comes to the to those student
40:53
athletes, you know, but yeah. Do you use it for that athlete?
40:58
Probably typically male, to be honest with you, from my
41:00
experience that says, coach, I'm going to win the, I'm going to
41:02
win the 100 or whatever event and you're like, all right,
41:05
let's look at this. Johnny, you're, you're 10th
41:07
right now. And by golly, I'd love for you
41:09
to be #1 you're going to have to PR by 3/10.
41:12
And I haven't seen that you ever use that.
41:13
Not not AI used to say, you know, the difference between
41:16
coaching men and women, men and women in my experience has been
41:20
with men every every male broad swipes here, no matter how good
41:26
or how bad, no matter how much like, you know, they were all in
41:28
on practice or they, you know, skip practices, things like
41:30
that. They all thought they're going
41:31
to win the friggin gold medal at the Olympics.
41:33
And so I always had to like bring them down a peg of like,
41:35
hey, you want to do that? Here's the things you're going
41:37
to have to do every woman again, big swats here that I've ever
41:41
coached, no matter how great or you know, not so athletically
41:43
talented they were never thought they could win anything.
41:46
And it was so with women. It was always like, I'm trying
41:48
to pick like you can win that and I prefer that, by the way,
41:51
than. The Hunter Room.
41:53
So do you ever had that with Johnny?
41:55
Like Johnny, you say you're gonna win, but boss, come on,
41:57
look where you at. And by the way, you missed
41:59
practice last Monday. How's that?
42:01
A conference winning attitude. Exactly.
42:04
Yeah, You know, we, we, you know, as as a coach, you know,
42:07
we always do the goal settings and things like that.
42:10
And, you know, I'll use it both ways.
42:12
You know, I'll use it to motivate them and show them,
42:16
hey, you know, your goal was to be top three and you won the
42:18
conference championship. That's all.
42:20
But on the flip side, you know, when when you do got that Johnny
42:23
and he's 5 minutes late to practice, you always throw it
42:26
back at Johnny. You're.
42:27
Like why am I not a full ride coach?
42:30
Exactly. Your 10th, your 10th, yeah.
42:32
Yeah, you know, I'm like Johnny, you know, conference champs not
42:35
5 minutes late, you know, I don't know, Conference champ
42:38
isn't, you know, asking to to lift early on Friday so you can
42:42
go to the high school football. Game oh, wait a minute.
42:44
So I haven't coached in 20 years.
42:46
That still happened because. That's still happened.
42:48
OK, as I said, because I as soon as you said that, I was like, Oh
42:51
my God, how many times have I heard that in my life?
42:53
Oh my God, that still happens. Holy crap.
42:55
Yeah. Fridays.
42:55
Can we go early? Yep.
42:57
Exactly, you know. So and they still show up late.
43:00
Even if you make it early, they still show up late sometimes.
43:02
Exactly. Kids.
43:04
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's crazy what we
43:06
do. So and by the way, T versus, you
43:08
know, I don't have T first when I coach.
43:09
That has made all this stuff a lot easier to do that.
43:11
All right off our tangent back into it.
43:15
You, you're you start working for Indiana Tech.
43:19
How much for a guy like Doug? Doug's a very you know, and
43:23
again, you go back and listen to the podcast.
43:26
You know, there's a reason why I I I I distinctly remember the
43:29
program was not very good. There was a pretty bad place
43:31
into what Doug has raised it up. Now how much I'm going to say
43:35
trust, and I'm not sure that's the necessarily the right word,
43:38
but it's the essence of it. How much of A leash did he give
43:41
you? You're a brand.
43:42
You ain't coached, you know you're brand new.
43:43
You don't know you. You repeat it.
43:45
That's awesome that that that plays into your coaching, but
43:47
you don't know how to talk to a kid, how to convey what you're
43:51
what you want them to do verbally, examples, etcetera.
43:55
How much leash did he give you initially?
43:58
Yeah, he gave me a huge leash. Yeah.
43:59
It was really cool, you know? So it was a, you know, I, I look
44:03
at, back at that time as, as, as just being such a important
44:06
place, you know, from where I'm at right now.
44:09
But you know what, between me and Doug and, and then Josh Wolf
44:13
was there as our, our cross country coach.
44:16
We are, you know, Doug, we're all the same age.
44:20
We all turned 40 this year, but Doug's birthday was in
44:24
September. Josh was, was in October, minds
44:27
in November. So we are sitting here 2425
44:31
years old. We are given the keys to the
44:34
this program that that I think, you know, all three of us felt
44:38
could be, you know, a national championship program and you
44:43
know, here you guys go figure it out, you know, so I learned a
44:47
lot from, you know, the different recruiting styles from
44:51
Doug and Josh that first year that that has, you know,
44:55
continued to to to help me in terms of recruiting.
44:59
Doug is relentless when it comes to those things.
45:01
He is, you know, no one, you know, calls as many kids that he
45:07
does, has as many visits as as he does.
45:12
It's just absolutely incredible. So from the first time sitting
45:16
in with him, making those those phone calls late at night or
45:21
sitting with him at one of his his campus visits, you know, I
45:24
really kind of found your my my own way to kind of recruit.
45:28
And the three of us just kind of went and, you know, divided and
45:31
conquered, brought in a really, really great class.
45:35
You know, I was only at Indiana Tech for one year, but that
45:38
recruiting class was, was, you know, I think that Doug would,
45:41
would, would agree is, is really the defining, you know, class
45:45
of, of what has become, you know, Indiana Tech.
45:49
You know, I think 16, maybe 18. I'm I'm not sure I lost count.
45:52
I'm not, you know, Aston finger saying I'm not good with count
45:56
counting toads. You know, I've lost count.
45:59
But I mean, what an incredible journey he has done.
46:03
Like like I said, we are 40 that that that guy right there has an
46:08
indoor facility named after. Him.
46:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We explored that.
46:11
Like how do you keep your ego in check with that all?
46:13
Right. It is is I wouldn't incredible.
46:15
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
46:17
I'd be like, yeah, just meet me at my building.
46:19
Oh, and you'll know it because my name's.
46:20
I mean, I would continually do that with.
46:21
Everybody like, how does, how does that work?
46:23
You know, you know, I have I have some visits on campus
46:26
tomorrow and we're going to meet in the Gary Hughes.
46:30
You know, that's that's where we're going to meet.
46:32
How do you spend that? Like, hey, you know, we're going
46:34
to meet at the Doug Edgar. That's true.
46:36
That's true. Good.
46:39
How did you I remember those days.
46:42
So recruiting was a big aspect for me.
46:44
I, I really enjoyed that in my entire coaching career.
46:47
And I remember, you know, good friend of mine, Chris Baptista,
46:50
shout out to him, who's also a podcast alum.
46:53
He coached at Fresno State, Cal Poly.
46:56
He and I were together at Troy, the greatest university in the
46:58
world. And you know, we would be up
46:59
till midnight and this was really before Internet.
47:02
This is like when die stat was just yeah, nationally.
47:06
And I remember, you know, I say we he was the maniac.
47:09
I was there as well. But he would have a handwritten,
47:11
you know, legal pad of, you know, the top 4000 meter kids we
47:15
wanted to go after and probably 50 and and I just knew it
47:18
relentless. You know, we, you know, we had
47:20
no money. So we would drive, you know, 8
47:22
hours into Florida for the state meet or county meet or whatever.
47:25
And then 8 hours. But you know, we'd get home at
47:27
6:00 AM, seven AM. Things like that, things that I
47:29
look back now and I'm like, what bunch of dummies?
47:32
Like, what were we thinking? There had to be other ways to be
47:35
more efficient and effective. How did you, when you see this
47:40
and because you're, you're learning like you're just
47:41
soaking up all this. You don't know how to recruit.
47:43
You were recruited, but that's, you know, you forgot about that.
47:46
I was, you know, I was an 18 year old.
47:47
Now you've got to do it. How did you see what was in
47:51
front of you with Josh and the way he did it, with the way Doug
47:54
he did it? You're, you know, you're a smart
47:56
enough guy. You probably talk to other
47:57
people at meets and things like that.
47:59
Those conversations come up. How did you figure out your own
48:01
style? Yeah.
48:03
How did you figure out your own style?
48:04
That that and you're probably still developing I would think
48:07
at especially early in this, this 24 year old age.
48:10
Yeah, you know, I've always been passionate about the sport, you
48:13
know, so I, I think recruits see that, you know, I always tell my
48:17
recruits like if you, if you take one thing away from from
48:20
this visit, I want you to take, you know, how passionate I am
48:24
about this sport and, and the develop of my student athletes,
48:28
you know, and, and that was, really has been my approach from
48:30
from day one is, you know, again, I was making no money.
48:35
The only way that I can get a paycheck from the university was
48:39
getting, you know, reimbursing my miles.
48:42
So I went to as many high school meets as possible in the fall.
48:46
I was, you know, being a Northwest Indiana guy and, and,
48:50
and Josh being, you know, from Northeast Indiana, you know, he
48:53
would be going, you know, to New Haven for that semi final.
48:57
I'd be going to New Prairie. I'd be going to, you know, the,
48:59
the, the, the, the DAC conference and doing all those
49:03
things, you know, and I think I was getting paid like, you know,
49:06
$0.58 per mile. So I mean, that's better than
49:09
nothing, you know, It's, you know, helps help pay for a
49:12
little bit of food every every few weeks, you know?
49:15
So you spend a year there. I always like to ask, well, I
49:20
should say this way, I think it, I believe it should work.
49:22
It doesn't really, you know, when you're doing a GA work and
49:25
you're working your masters is kind of like a GA situation for
49:29
you. You know, when you finish your,
49:31
your, your masters, your graduate studies there.
49:34
I truly think it should still be a fork in the road.
49:36
Most of the time we're GA and it's like, oh, I'm doing this
49:38
only because I want to become a track coach.
49:40
I still think that there should be an off ramp.
49:42
Like you should figure out, like really ask yourself now, do you
49:45
want to do this full time and for the rest of your life
49:47
basically? And that's OK if you don't, cuz
49:49
now you get, you have a great undergrad education and a great
49:51
master's education going on. How did you at the end of that
49:54
year, what was the decision to stay go go back into logistics?
49:59
You know, you're a smart guy. You had a lot of options and,
50:01
and network there. What was the what was that
50:03
decision point like? Yeah, after that year, I I got a
50:06
phone call from Sean Venable, who's who's at liberty right
50:09
now, the associate head coach. He's just incredible.
50:12
But he was at Bacon College in Muskogee, OK, And he had a full
50:17
time job, you know, wasn't paying a lot.
50:19
I think. I think I might have made
50:21
$25,000 that year. But he's like, hey, you know, I
50:25
want to bring you in for an interview, but I can't pay to
50:29
fly out here or do anything like that.
50:32
So you're going to have to, you know, make the trip from from
50:35
Fort Wayne to, to, to Oklahoma on your own dime.
50:38
And I'm like, well, when do I leave?
50:40
You know, like, when, when can we meet, you know, like, let's,
50:43
let's do those things. And then, you know, I, I, I
50:46
worked, you know, with, with Sean, who was just, I mean, he
50:50
is, I mean, he's, he's incredible.
50:53
You know, talk about passion. You know, I talk about my
50:55
passion. Like, you know, I, I don't think
50:58
you could find someone more passionate about the sport life
51:01
in general than than than Sean and, and he's just absolutely
51:04
incredible. I I still love that guy to
51:06
death, but got got to, got to work, you know, full time for my
51:11
first time helping him out. It was just a A2 man team, you
51:15
know, so, you know, he, you know, he's like, can you coach
51:18
distance? I'm like, I can coach anything
51:20
that you want me to, as long as I get to hang out with the
51:22
sprinters from time to time. I'll do anything, you know, So I
51:26
was hired there to coach the distance program and and, you
51:30
know, halfway through the semester he's like, you're going
51:33
to coach throws too. I'm like, okay, well, we'll do
51:36
that too. You know, small NAIA program,
51:39
you know, we had a lot of success with that.
51:41
And, you know, it was just an incredible, incredible year with
51:44
Sean. How did how did he fight?
51:46
You know, this is we're we have Internet for sure, but it's not
51:51
like it is today. And I will probably say that
51:52
every year of my life for the rest of my life.
51:54
But like, how did he find you? You know, this Indiana kid, he's
51:57
over in Oklahoma. How did he find you to reach out
52:00
for the job? Well, I, I think you know what,
52:03
what Doug was building in Indiana Tech, you know, Indiana
52:05
Tech starting that year was really making a name for itself
52:09
in the NAIA and Bacon College, super small school.
52:14
I don't, I don't think it exists anymore.
52:16
I think that they closed the the doors a few years ago, but but
52:20
Sean was doing it all on his own, you know, so was able to
52:23
get this full time position, you know, and I think he saw that
52:27
development of, of what Indiana Tech had became and really
52:32
wanted that to, to, to really kind of be what they cone would
52:35
become as well. You know, So I think, you know,
52:39
through a couple, you know, and, and this is what our sport's all
52:43
about. It's it's just kind of, you
52:45
know, buddies and things like that.
52:46
You know, I think that this would be a good guy, you know,
52:48
people that you trust, you know, and, and, and my name was, was
52:52
brought up and it was, you know, I think it was a phone call or a
52:56
Facebook message or something like that.
52:58
And I think the next day I was on the road to to to Oklahoma.
53:05
Sean, I've known Sean for a long time, absolutely is the kind of
53:09
guy who observes. So that, that makes a lot of
53:11
sense. OK, Kevin, you grew up in
53:14
Northwest Indiana, you know, call it Chicago adjacent.
53:17
You go to northeast Indiana. All I'm hearing is Indiana
53:21
though, and now you go to Oklahoma.
53:24
Now I, I used to live in coach in Kansas and recruited Oklahoma
53:28
a lot. It's a little different,
53:30
although there's some similarities, but there's some
53:33
unique differences. Even so much of just geography,
53:36
you're away from family and friends and things like that.
53:39
How did you adjust to that? It was a challenge, you know,
53:43
it, it really was, you know, you know, obviously I had a great
53:46
role model with Sean there. We spent a lot of time together,
53:50
but it was different, you know, it was Muskogee, OK.
53:54
You know, I'm not knocking the city, but yeah, but it is way
53:58
different than than Fort Wayne IN way different than anything
54:02
that I had experienced. You know, there there wasn't
54:06
much to do. You know, a Friday night got a
54:09
little crazy when you went to Walmart twice, but because you
54:11
forgot, you know, the laundry detergent the the first time you
54:15
did that. Because, you know, still to this
54:17
day I don't write a a list of what I do because I think it's
54:20
all up here. Drives my wife nuts, you know.
54:24
You know. She's listening right now.
54:26
She's like. Exactly.
54:28
Yep, Yep. You know, and she's like, yeah,
54:30
you know, 'cause it's probably, she's listening to it, going to
54:32
Walmart to pick up the milk. I forgot, but you know, so, but
54:38
the kids were, were wonderful, you know, and you know, I think
54:41
that's the thing, you know, even though, you know, from a, a
54:44
social network, I didn't have much, you know, it was a very
54:48
different culture than what I was used to.
54:51
But when it comes to track and field, no matter where you're
54:56
from, you know, it's it stays the same.
55:00
The 100 meter stays the same, the mile stays the same.
55:02
That desire to become great stays the same.
55:06
So being around those, those, those student athletes, you
55:09
know, really kind of helped me get through, you know, some of
55:12
the, some of the difficulties of, of not having that support
55:15
system. How?
55:17
Different is it for you as a coach, You do a year where
55:20
you're not getting paid anything.
55:21
You're you're making mileage and now you got your first full time
55:26
job as small as the salary was, I get it.
55:29
But you know, every two weeks or once a month they, they gave you
55:32
a check and you got to cash it and they didn't take it back.
55:35
How does that change your I don't know if motivations right
55:40
where I don't say psyche in regards to like like it's a,
55:44
it's a profession now. I, I, I am, I am on record as
55:47
saying I dislike volunteer coaches, not the people.
55:51
I just dislike not paying people.
55:55
I, I, I, I'll say I fought our internship program.
55:57
I was not on board with us having interns here at Gill
56:01
because we was like, Oh, you know, we'll do free interns.
56:03
And I'm like, man, I just, I just have a hard time bringing
56:06
a, you know, I say a kid because I'm the age I'm at, you know, no
56:10
matter what we're having them do, I just, they got to get paid
56:12
something. I just feel like, and we do now
56:14
and then we have interns and they're amazing.
56:15
I love every intern we've had from typically from University
56:18
of Illinois. So I dislike volunteer coaches
56:21
in that sense, like they got to get paid something.
56:23
I just feel like that. How does that for you when you
56:26
start thinking about now I'm I am I am Coach Patterson.
56:30
This looks like this might be my career.
56:32
I'm now getting a check versus I wasn't, you know, last year.
56:37
I mean from, from day one that this is what I wanted to do for,
56:40
you know, my entire life, you know, that's something that,
56:44
that I loved. So I, I treated it like a
56:46
profession when I was getting paid $0.00 and having to go to
56:49
class at night just because that was, that was, that was part of
56:52
my payment. You know, there's a lot of times
56:54
where, you know, I'm sure my professors didn't, didn't like
56:57
it. But if, if you know, if it was
56:59
econ class or a big meet with a recruit that we're, you know,
57:03
trying to get after econ class, you know, kind of took took the
57:07
back seats back in those days, you know, but and that's
57:11
something that, you know, still to this day, I've, I've 2GA S,
57:14
you know, on staff here at, at Central Missouri.
57:16
You know, I, I encourage them, Hey, treat this like a
57:19
profession, like if this is something that you want to do
57:21
for the rest of your life, you can't just naturally, you know,
57:25
turn that switch on where? OK, well, now I'm getting a
57:28
paycheck. Now I have to do XY and Z.
57:31
If you haven't done XY and Z before getting that paycheck it
57:35
it makes it that much more difficult in terms of.
57:37
I assume you have those same types of question or
57:40
conversations with walk ONS. It's like.
57:42
Hey, you don't just. Turn it on, because I give you a
57:44
scholarship. You've got to be showing it as
57:47
the walk on first. Yeah.
57:48
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Absolutely.
57:50
You know, so that's, that's how I've always approached it.
57:53
And, you know, anyone that's, you know, looks to me as a
57:56
mentor, that's, that's the, you know, the first piece of advice
57:59
that I do. Because if, if you've gone
58:02
through a graduate assistant position and, and you never took
58:06
a lead in the recruitment process, that is the time to
58:11
learn it, you know, because with, you know, a full time
58:14
position and things like that become other responsibilities.
58:19
You know, you know, you got to go to, you know, you got to meet
58:22
with AD, you got to do this, you got to, you know, meet with
58:25
admissions where, you know, those are things that, you know,
58:27
as a graduate assistant, Doug would always do.
58:30
You know, the, those 9:00 AM, you know, meetings with, you
58:34
know, the ADI never had to attend, you know, so I could
58:37
stay up until, you know, 2:00 in the, in the the morning, you
58:42
know, looking at results and, and emailing recruits and things
58:45
like that, because I, I knew that I could kind of wander into
58:48
the office, you know, at 10:00, you know, if Doug's listening,
58:52
he'll probably say it was probably a little bit later than
58:54
that. But, you know, so, you know,
58:57
that's where I kind of learned to kind of grind, you know, and,
59:00
and as I took my first, you know, you know, full time
59:02
position, you know, I was single, you know, I was able to
59:05
kind of continue to do those things.
59:07
And and that's, you know, if you can't recruit in this, this, it
59:11
doesn't matter what type of coach you are, If you can't
59:13
recruit, you're, you're not going to be very successful.
59:17
So how long at bacon? So I was there for a year and
59:20
then, you know, I, I took another leap of faith and, and
59:24
took my first head coaching job at at 25.
59:28
I think I was at teeny tiny Calumet College in Saint Joseph.
59:34
And you know, so I, I took that team and I think I, my first day
59:38
was, was June first. It was right around regionals
59:42
time in in in the state of Indiana and I asked what my
59:46
roster looked like and they gave me a, a list of I think four or
59:49
five names and then wished me wish me luck, you know, So,
59:55
yeah, we definitely didn't have a, a track team, let alone, you
59:58
know, a cross country team, you know, so we got to work, you
1:00:02
know, it's CCSJ Calumet College is is a super unique.
1:00:08
Institution it is. It is right across the street
1:00:11
from the BP oil refinery. Oh.
1:00:14
Wow. It is one building.
1:00:16
And when I started coaching there was one academic building,
1:00:21
one gym and it was, it was strictly commuter.
1:00:25
They they just built dorms. I, I think two or three years
1:00:28
ago, but it was, it was a, a job that, that some of those people
1:00:33
that, that I really kind of trusted, kind of tried to steer
1:00:36
me away from because they, they didn't think it could be
1:00:40
successful. You know what?
1:00:43
Was the reason for taking that job.
1:00:45
And what I mean by that is, and by the way, no judgement of what
1:00:48
the actual reason was here. There's lots of reasons we take
1:00:50
jobs. Was it more pay?
1:00:52
Was it get back to the Midwest? Was it like, I want to learn how
1:00:56
to become a head coach? So what's a better way to do it
1:00:57
than become a coach? Was it?
1:00:59
Oh no, I see the diamond in this rough.
1:01:02
What was the actual motivation? I was immature and then thought
1:01:06
that I could be a head coach. Yeah.
1:01:08
No, I think that's what it was. You know, I think if I, you
1:01:13
know, I've always been willing to kind of take a chance on
1:01:15
myself. But you know, until, you know,
1:01:20
Carol walked into my life, you know, around this time, you
1:01:24
know, my, my wife, you know, I was a knucklehead.
1:01:28
You know, if I didn't have her, who knows where I would be right
1:01:31
now, you know, but I would make those rash decisions because,
1:01:37
you know, as a, you know, a graduate assistant and then a
1:01:40
full time assistant coach, you're, you're always looking
1:01:42
to, you know, what kind of take that next step to become the
1:01:45
head coach. And, and CCSJ offered me that
1:01:47
position, you know, so it, it, you know, it was this, this new
1:01:52
thing that, that, that I wanted to kind of show, you know,
1:01:56
everyone that, that I could become a head coach, I could
1:01:58
build a winning program, a winning culture, you know, So
1:02:03
that's, that's, that's why, why I took it, you know, and, and,
1:02:06
you know, it was 30 minutes from where I grew up.
1:02:10
It was, you know, so, you know, being, being gone and, and on
1:02:14
the road with recruiting for really the past two years, you
1:02:17
know, I, I, I missed some, some things with my grandparents and,
1:02:21
and my parents and, and my, my siblings.
1:02:24
That's that, you know, it was, you know, spending, you know,
1:02:27
when you're, you're a track coach wherever you're at, you
1:02:30
know, especially during the season with Easter, you know,
1:02:33
you're, you're, you're doing it on your own.
1:02:34
You know, when, when you don't have a significant other, you
1:02:37
know, you're going to the track meet on, on on Saturday, you're
1:02:41
coming back and, and, and you know, Easter Sunday, you know,
1:02:44
you're sitting in front of the, the TV.
1:02:46
Who knows what I was eating. That wasn't a very, I still
1:02:48
still not a very good cook. Definitely was even worse back
1:02:52
then. So probably like cereal or
1:02:53
something like that on days like that.
1:02:56
So, you know, having that opportunity to, to be around
1:02:59
family and then also, you know, staying, you know, I'm still
1:03:02
close with my, my high school, you know, coaches and things
1:03:06
like that. Those are, you know, still to
1:03:07
this day, some of my, you know, best mentors in, in terms of
1:03:12
those things. It was just a great opportunity.
1:03:16
Not, you know, a segment of us as track coaches believe we want
1:03:21
to be a head coach, another segment want to be, you know,
1:03:24
when they're ready, However you define that want to be head
1:03:27
coach, others don't want to be head coach at all.
1:03:28
And that's that's fine too. What was the biggest difference
1:03:32
now? Now you're a pup in this game.
1:03:34
You're a one year as a volunteer at Indiana Tech.
1:03:37
You're one year as a full time at Bacon and now you're a head
1:03:40
coach. So I don't even know that you
1:03:41
know what a head coach does. You're still where's the track
1:03:45
type of pup in your career here? What was the biggest difference
1:03:49
you noticed though, as far as you you do.
1:03:51
You were an assistant coach for two years, so you kind of know
1:03:54
the, I don't know, call the pecking order, but you know what
1:03:55
I'm responsible for, what they're responsible for,
1:03:57
etcetera. Now you're kind of responsible
1:04:00
for What was the biggest difference you noticed as as
1:04:02
head coach Patterson. Oh man, it's been so long ago.
1:04:08
I think the biggest thing is, and, and I think, you know,
1:04:11
every assistant coach will will admit to this if they like it or
1:04:14
not is, you know, the, the, the, the most difficult, you know,
1:04:18
position as a head coach is, you know, having that, you know, the
1:04:22
financial discussions, you know, hey, you know, dad, you know,
1:04:26
lost his job or, you know, this isn't, you know, I didn't get
1:04:30
this scholarship like I'd hoped. I can't afford to do this.
1:04:33
Is there any more scholarship money available to those things?
1:04:37
You know, and as you know, we are like a lot of sports at the
1:04:44
NCAA and AI level, we're limited in what we have spent.
1:04:48
So sometimes you have to say no to those things.
1:04:50
You know, as an assistant coach, that was always, oh, you want to
1:04:53
have that, have that discussion with the head coach.
1:04:56
And I was right back to recruiting, right back to to
1:04:59
training and things like that. So, so really kind of, you know,
1:05:02
being that that main point of of, of contact for everybody on
1:05:06
that team, you know, for the past two years, it was my
1:05:09
training group, you know, that's who I was responsible for.
1:05:12
And you know, you know, whether it was Sean or whether it was
1:05:16
Doug or Josh or someone like that, you know, they were making
1:05:19
sure that, you know, we got lunch at the track meets.
1:05:24
That's, you know, we were eating dinner at later and, and at the
1:05:27
end of the day, you know, we were making sure that we were,
1:05:30
you know, doing our receipts and, and balancing the budget
1:05:33
and things like that. So I think with any assistant
1:05:35
coach, whether you're doing that position for 10 years to, you
1:05:40
know, two years like myself is doing those those things.
1:05:44
I think one thing that really helped me is, is my business
1:05:47
background. You know, I was doing those
1:05:49
things. You know, I echo global
1:05:51
logistics, you know, I'm making sure that, you know, I was
1:05:53
sending out invoices, making sure the invoices were paid in a
1:05:56
timely manner. So I was already doing those
1:05:58
things. So it wasn't as big of a, you
1:06:02
know, difference as some other assistant coaches do.
1:06:07
But, you know, I think that's the biggest thing is, is, you
1:06:10
know, I always say when you're the head coach, you're the CEO
1:06:12
of the program, you know, whether you're, you know, like
1:06:15
me, I, I work with the, you know, our, our sprints groups,
1:06:18
you know, and I'm all over the place.
1:06:19
But you know, from a day-to-day operations like, you know, I'm,
1:06:23
I'm, I'm seeing the sprinters a lot more than I am the, the
1:06:26
throwers. But I have to make sure that,
1:06:28
you know, when you're on the top, you're making those
1:06:30
decisions that are going to affect everybody.
1:06:32
And you want to make sure that, you know, it's a good program
1:06:35
for for everybody from the sprinters to the throwers to the
1:06:38
distance runners. Yeah, that, that's a great point
1:06:41
about the background because I, I don't believe that we as head
1:06:45
coaches are preparing our assistant coaches to become head
1:06:48
coaches in the future. Very well, some, some we and
1:06:52
we've had them on the show, you know, very good at delegating
1:06:54
like hey, I'm going to have you do equipment, you're going to do
1:06:57
travel, etcetera, etcetera. But most of our assistant
1:07:01
coaches are coming into their first head coach just blinds.
1:07:04
Like, OK, I knew we had a budget, but I didn't know that,
1:07:07
you know, it had to be meted out by the different things.
1:07:09
And wait, I got to schedule buses and food.
1:07:12
You know, there, there's so much.
1:07:14
I think we could and should be doing a better job at that as,
1:07:18
as as head coaches. All right, Well, how how did it
1:07:20
go there? You're back home.
1:07:22
Is this where you meet your wife?
1:07:24
This is where I meet my wife, you know, So I mean, so I met my
1:07:27
wife, you know, out at an establishment in Chicago.
1:07:31
We kind of exchanged numbers. We had a track meet the next
1:07:34
day. So of course, you know, you
1:07:37
know, coming back, you know, I, you know, I just kind of shot
1:07:39
her a text to see if she wanted to, to meet up for a drink.
1:07:42
And that's, you know, you didn't.
1:07:44
Invite her to. You didn't invite her to the
1:07:46
track meet? No, no, no.
1:07:48
SO. Good, good job.
1:07:49
Yeah, yeah, no. Unless she's a trackie, that's
1:07:51
not your first day. Spending 16 hours, you know, in
1:07:54
a stuffy field house in February, that's, that's, that's
1:07:58
not an ideal date for anybody. Or, you know, if they stay with
1:08:02
you after that, it's like, well, you must be the right person
1:08:04
because that was pretty gruelling.
1:08:06
Absolutely. She's stepped through a million
1:08:08
track meets at this point. But that was, you know, in two
1:08:13
weeks, that'll be thirteen years ago.
1:08:14
Wow. Very cool. 1st, 1st, 1st dates,
1:08:19
you know, we've been together ever since.
1:08:21
So she's gotten to see me through this journey, you know,
1:08:25
with, with everything that we've done, But it was, it was
1:08:29
incredible, you know, so being home, you know, meeting the one
1:08:33
and growing that program, you know, like I said, we, I walked
1:08:36
into a, a roster of about four or five athletes with it.
1:08:40
When that summer came through, we were, we were 30 plus we, we
1:08:43
fielded, fielded a fairly competitive cross country team.
1:08:50
My, my grandpa, I love him to death, You know, he, he passed
1:08:54
away, you know, about 10 years ago, But he was always my
1:08:58
biggest cheerleader and also my biggest critic.
1:09:05
He would, you know, grandma and grandpa and, and my mom and my
1:09:08
dad. I mean, they, you know, I could
1:09:10
probably count on one hand the, the amount of, of track meets
1:09:13
that they missed. But we're, we're at Loyola for
1:09:16
the lakefronts, you know, their cross country meets and we got
1:09:20
our butts kicked, Mike. It was bad.
1:09:22
And my, I could still, you know, remember my, my grandpa, you
1:09:28
know, coming up to me, this is like meet like 3 of my head
1:09:31
coaching career. You know, he's like, you guys
1:09:33
aren't very good. And we weren't, he was, he was
1:09:36
dead on, you know, but we fielded the team for the, the,
1:09:40
the first time without having to use the basketball team to make
1:09:43
sure that we're, we're, we're hitting those things.
1:09:45
So we're in the right direction, you know, but, you know, they
1:09:49
kind of come full circle with that.
1:09:51
You know, we we really grew that program where we were 70 plus
1:09:54
athletes and really became very, very, very competitive, you
1:09:59
know, in the Chicago Collegiate Athletic Conference with some
1:10:01
really, really, really good teams, all of that Saint Francis
1:10:06
here, we're really, really good so.
1:10:10
How did you do that? And the reason I asked this,
1:10:12
because I know there are plenty of people listening right now
1:10:15
that either are in that situation.
1:10:17
I, I, I've got this program, could be high school, could be
1:10:19
college, doesn't matter. I've got four or five kids or,
1:10:23
you know, they don't know it yet, but in a year or two
1:10:25
they're going to take over a program that's four or five
1:10:27
kids. And you grew up to 30 initially
1:10:29
and then 70 that, you know, we believe.
1:10:32
And I believe healthy things grow.
1:10:33
So when I see a roster of five and it's 30 and it's like bravo
1:10:38
and that and I've done it once at the junior college, that's
1:10:41
not easy because you're trying to sell something that ain't
1:10:43
there. You know, we're going to have a
1:10:46
great team. Coach, you got five kids.
1:10:48
We're we our culture is this. What do you mean?
1:10:50
You got a culture? You got five kids.
1:10:51
What are you talking? You know, you're, you're
1:10:53
envisioning young people. How did how did you?
1:10:56
Can you give us any specifics on how you accomplish that?
1:11:00
Man, if there was a high school track meet in Northwest Indiana
1:11:04
or the, you know, s s suburbs of Illinois, they saw me, you know,
1:11:09
and you know, if if you didn't return that Facebook message or
1:11:13
that text or things like that, I was going to come find you.
1:11:16
You know, it was, it was those kids that I really felt that
1:11:19
could be game changers for us. I wanted to make sure that, you
1:11:24
know, in in this recruiting game that that they felt special, you
1:11:28
know, in terms of, of all those things.
1:11:30
So. How do you balance out you you
1:11:34
know your I'm gonna say your ego cuz ego is not bad, bad ego is
1:11:37
bad. But your ego and your
1:11:39
competitiveness says you go look at the you guys were in AI.
1:11:45
We're in AI. Yeah, as I say, you're very.
1:11:49
Yeah, you're an AI kid. Exactly.
1:11:52
You go look at NANAI nationals or maybe, you know, maybe
1:11:55
hopefully a little bit more realistically, you go look at
1:11:57
your conference and you say, OK, it takes X to score in this
1:11:59
event. Well, then I need to go recruit
1:12:01
those kids. But those kids are not at your
1:12:03
school for a reason, meaning they're at other schools for a
1:12:05
reason. How do you how do you balance?
1:12:08
I just need warm bodies. I always hate that term.
1:12:10
I'm sorry, but I think that conveys what I'm talking about
1:12:12
versus I'm going to go get the studs that I need, but I don't
1:12:15
really have anything to attract the studs that I need.
1:12:18
How do you balance, you know, almost some like long term of
1:12:22
like, OK, I need to get this type of athlete first and then
1:12:24
work up and then maybe in 3-4 years or whatever I can attract.
1:12:28
How do you balance that? Like I want to go up to the
1:12:30
studs, but I realize I don't really have anything to offer
1:12:32
them. Yeah, I mean, it's just finding
1:12:34
those kids that are going to be the right fit, you know, So, you
1:12:37
know, especially at CCSJ, I, I would find kids like myself, you
1:12:41
know, kids that, you know, we're passionate about the sport,
1:12:45
maybe weren't the fastest, maybe didn't have the greatest grades,
1:12:49
but needed that, that, you know, that college coach to give them
1:12:53
that opportunity like I was given, you know, so like, like
1:12:56
I'm doing today, you know, I, I, I share my passion, I share my
1:13:00
story. I'm, I'm an open book with, with
1:13:03
these, you know, student athletes, you know, I, I think
1:13:07
that's what allowed me to get athletes that had never stepped
1:13:11
foot on that campus before, because they finally found, you
1:13:15
know, a coach that, that was willing to give them that
1:13:18
chance, that believed that they could be more, you know, because
1:13:22
we, we talked about the Johnnies earlier, you know, that that
1:13:25
wants to be that national champion.
1:13:27
Everyone wants to do that. And we've all had those, those
1:13:31
Johnnies that, you know, freshman year, we don't believe
1:13:34
that they could do those things. But then we see that growth in
1:13:37
them that hey, they they do become that that national
1:13:40
champion. When you say, you know, finding
1:13:43
the right fit, that's a very common like if I were to try to
1:13:46
write up the top 10 quips that a coach would say finding the
1:13:50
right fit is the top ten. Would you say though?
1:13:54
How many years were you Cal you met?
1:13:56
I was there for three years. Oh well, good job.
1:13:58
First of all, not one and done again there by the way, I was
1:14:00
going to see how long of this trend was going to last for you.
1:14:05
Over those three years, would you say that the kid that was
1:14:09
the right fit changed so the the kind of kid you were recruiting
1:14:14
year one fit, we're in this stratum of our program.
1:14:17
Well, year 2, hopefully if you're doing your job, you're in
1:14:20
a little bit different strength. So now the kid looks different.
1:14:22
So when I'm going to find the right kid that looks different
1:14:26
than the year before and then year three and then progress on,
1:14:28
would you say that? 100% you know, so you know where
1:14:32
CCS JS at, it's, it's right in, in your backyard in Whiting, you
1:14:36
know, the Hammond Whiting area, you know, so early on, you know,
1:14:40
we're right across the street from from BP oil refinery.
1:14:44
You know, so a lot of our kids came from the Hammonds, the
1:14:47
Gary's, the Merrillville's, the Hobarts because of my
1:14:50
connections. And as we kind of build those
1:14:53
things and, and, and those student athletes have have
1:14:56
friends, we were able to really kind of expand our reach to, to
1:15:00
more of, you know, the more of Northwest Indiana where we're,
1:15:04
you know, a lot of these kids, dads know exactly who we are
1:15:08
because they work at the steel mills, They work in BP.
1:15:11
So they're around our campus all the time.
1:15:13
But when you work at BP auto refinery, like, like my kids, we
1:15:18
have a basketball game tonight. So they're going to come to my
1:15:20
office. We're going to watch the
1:15:21
basketball game, you know, if, if you're working, you know, in
1:15:25
the oil refinery, you know, I never went and saw my dad at the
1:15:28
steel mill. You know, that's just not
1:15:29
something that was happening. So those, those student athletes
1:15:33
don't know anything about us, you know, but moms and dads do.
1:15:37
So that allowed us to kind of, you know, really kind of, you
1:15:39
know, make that reach to, to much more than than just those,
1:15:43
those high schools that, you know, bordered the, the city of
1:15:47
Hammond and things like that. So it allowed us to to really
1:15:49
kind of grow those things. And we, we had a a story to
1:15:52
tell. You know, like I said, we took
1:15:54
over with five athletes and now, you know, we're top half of the
1:15:59
conference both in cross country and track.
1:16:01
That's the progression that this program is on.
1:16:04
Is that something that you're interested in?
1:16:06
You know, it doesn't matter how fancy a campus is or how many
1:16:11
fountains that you have on campus.
1:16:13
No kid wants to to go to a place not to be compete at a high
1:16:18
level, you know, So I, I think, you know, it had, you know,
1:16:21
really tying into those competitive juices of student
1:16:25
athletes allowed me to to really kind of get the athletes that
1:16:29
that had would have never thought of of CCSJ as well.
1:16:34
So three years there, you build up from 5 to 70 and, and that,
1:16:38
you know, I know our competitiveness wants us to be
1:16:41
in the top half in the conference and then the top
1:16:43
three and, you know, then win it or push to win and things like
1:16:45
that. But there is something to be
1:16:47
said about the competitiveness of having a roster.
1:16:50
I mean, there are plenty of people before you that didn't do
1:16:52
that job that, you know, you were better at than they were in
1:16:55
that sense. So so there's a little bit of
1:16:56
competitiveness of just again, I hate to to use the term the warm
1:16:59
bodies term, but having a roster, having a roster actually
1:17:02
filled out is a much better than having four or five kids.
1:17:05
Exactly. You know that you got to go get
1:17:06
a basketball player to fill out the the five for cross country.
1:17:09
Yes. So three years of CCCCCCSJ, you
1:17:12
do a great job there. Where do we go next and and why?
1:17:16
So, you know, after that I had the opportunity to, to take over
1:17:19
the Benedictine University program in, in Lisle, IL and
1:17:25
it's man, it was, I just fell in love with that place.
1:17:28
You know, I, you know, was, was looking to get in the NC double
1:17:33
AI. Think it with, with any college
1:17:35
coach. You know, I'd ran in the NAIA,
1:17:38
coached in the NAIA, but really saw the NCAA as as just, you
1:17:42
know, the, the institutions that are, are there.
1:17:45
You know, it's, it's just absolutely incredible.
1:17:47
The, the, the different model from NCAA to NAIA's.
1:17:51
It's, it's, you know, it's just something that I was really,
1:17:54
really interested in, you know, had a, a great interview with,
1:17:59
you know, the athletic directors there, Mark McCartney, Paul
1:18:02
Nelson, and really, you know, they wanted more out of their
1:18:05
program. And again, you know, I had some,
1:18:09
some mentors that thought I was crazy, you know, 'cause, you
1:18:12
know, you know, is, is, you know, and if you know, the other
1:18:15
people that aren't listening probably don't know that
1:18:18
Benedictine and North Central College are, are literally on
1:18:21
the same St. They're a mile and a half apart.
1:18:24
You know, where I think that there was this, this, you know,
1:18:29
this notion that, you know, you couldn't compete at a high level
1:18:33
when you got Al Karius and Grammy down the hill from you,
1:18:37
you know, because you know, it was a reality.
1:18:40
You know, any kid that that you know, comes to visit you is
1:18:44
going to go. You know, if they're at the 9:00
1:18:47
campus tour at Benedictine, they're going to be at the
1:18:49
12:30. You know, Central just makes too
1:18:53
much sense, you know, you know, you go to the tour, you eat at
1:18:58
Portillo's and then you go to the North Central, you know, so,
1:19:03
but man, I, I, I had an incredible, you know, interview
1:19:07
with them and, and made some bold claims that that I was
1:19:11
going to beat North Central at, at, at nationals before I had
1:19:14
left, you know, and it just worked out perfectly.
1:19:18
You know, I, I, I came home to my fiance at the time and she's
1:19:21
like, how'd it go? I'm like, it went really well,
1:19:23
but I think I might have promised a little bit too much,
1:19:27
but was lucky enough and, and a good, you know, I think this is
1:19:31
kind of a common theme early on in my career.
1:19:35
You know, it was a difficult situation.
1:19:37
So I took that position in January.
1:19:40
So we were literally like 10 days away from our first, you
1:19:44
know, competition on my first day on campus.
1:19:48
But it was just an incredible, incredible place.
1:19:52
How did you let's provide you're providing a ton of values.
1:19:56
Let's keep kind of clicking into this.
1:19:59
I don't want to downplay any type of interview at Indiana
1:20:03
Tech and Bacon and CCSJ that you had, but this feels like outside
1:20:09
looking in. I want to be careful with my
1:20:14
words here. This a big job, big opportunity
1:20:18
compared to those others. First of all, it's a head
1:20:20
coaching job. So we take out Indiana Tech and
1:20:23
and Bacon in that sense. CCSJ had five kids.
1:20:26
You know, I, I don't want to speak for them and say they were
1:20:29
desperate and, and they didn't hire you because they were
1:20:31
desperate. But meaning like other people
1:20:33
could have come in and did a quarter of what you did and, and
1:20:36
then went from 5:00 to 10:00 kids and they would have been
1:20:38
like, cool, we're happy we got a roster.
1:20:40
OK, You take over Benedictine, which had its issues, sure, but
1:20:42
you know, it was an established program, you know, has Big
1:20:46
Brother not even down the street, across the street type
1:20:49
of thing. How did you, I'm curious, how
1:20:52
did you prepare for the interview, whether that was
1:20:56
seeking advice from mentors, whether that was any kind of
1:20:59
Internet searching, like, how did you like?
1:21:02
OK, I got all right. I meet with a DS on Tuesday.
1:21:05
I want this job. I got to convey to them not only
1:21:09
that I'm ready, but that I want this job in that, you know,
1:21:12
hiring me is going to be the better route than the other 4-5
1:21:15
individuals that they may or may not be interviewing.
1:21:17
How did you prepare for this? Yeah.
1:21:20
Yeah, no, this is a huge opportunity.
1:21:22
You know, I was getting married in July and this would be a, a
1:21:27
salary that, you know, I could raise a family on, you know, and
1:21:30
then that's just something that that CCSJ just wasn't.
1:21:33
That seems important. Yeah, you know, so, you know, so
1:21:37
there was, there was a lot, you know, going into it.
1:21:40
Like, like I've mentioned many times before, I am a dork.
1:21:43
I research everything. So I, I, I came up with a
1:21:48
packet. It, it was a, it was a
1:21:50
presentation. This, this goes back to my, you
1:21:53
know, business dice. This is why you should hire me.
1:21:57
And this is what we're going to do to get to the program where
1:22:01
we're back to winning conference championships.
1:22:06
And it was, it was cool. You know, we had a lot.
1:22:10
So what's in I I've heard this before I I never did the you
1:22:14
know, I never well, I, I interviewed and got one head
1:22:17
coaching job, but they were in the CCSJ model.
1:22:20
They were like, you got a pulse mic cool.
1:22:22
We have 3 kids coming back job's yours, you know so packet would
1:22:26
have been waiting. They're like, yeah, whatever
1:22:27
dude, get us from 3 to 20 and then.
1:22:30
Just. Yeah, exactly.
1:22:32
Exactly cuz I so I hear about this packet a lot.
1:22:36
You know that other people this isn't original.
1:22:38
Sorry Kevin, but what's in that pack?
1:22:41
What are you trying to show the AD that packet?
1:22:44
You know, I think you know what, what a DS really want, you know
1:22:47
someone that is going to be, you know, cuz AAD looks at at their
1:22:52
head coaches. That's so much more than just XS
1:22:55
and OS and wins and losses wherever I was, you know, part
1:23:00
of my job, and it still is, is when we have a big donor come to
1:23:03
make them feel like $1,000,000, you know?
1:23:06
So I think, you know, in that pack, it's kind of showing my
1:23:09
philosophies as a coach, but also, hey, this is also what I
1:23:13
bring to this athletic family, to this campus as well.
1:23:17
So I think this is important to to make sure it's clear.
1:23:23
So it's less about hey, AD look how how great of a Sprint coach
1:23:28
or did whatever, because let's be real, the AD doesn't care or
1:23:32
care. I need to say it that way.
1:23:34
You maybe already have the job. I'm sorry, have the interview
1:23:37
because they think, well, you must be somewhat competent of a
1:23:40
coach. Why would I even bring you in?
1:23:41
So that's almost like table stakes to use my old poker
1:23:44
career term there. Now you're showing is the idea
1:23:50
for that packet to take, you know, you turned in a resume and
1:23:52
you know, I'm not a big fan of resumes is to take that and blow
1:23:56
it up and say, oh, I've been on this type of committee.
1:23:59
Mr. and Misses AD, meaning I could maybe help you out here.
1:24:02
One of my roles and responsibility was donor
1:24:05
outreach. That may be important to you.
1:24:07
Mr. And Misses AD You know, is that what this packet is really
1:24:10
about? Totally.
1:24:11
And, and you're really kind of going into, you know, how I grew
1:24:14
the rosters at Indiana Tech, at Bay Cone CCS and how we're how
1:24:20
we're going to grow the roster at Benedictine.
1:24:23
And in return, that's going to make us more competitive at the
1:24:26
conference and national level. You know, I, I think that's, you
1:24:29
know, you know, with any athletic director, if they know
1:24:34
that you're going to come in and you're going to be a good
1:24:36
Stewart to the program, great with alumni being a great role
1:24:41
model with the student athletes and on top of that, make them
1:24:45
competitive like they've never been competitive before.
1:24:49
It's it's a win, win for everybody involved.
1:24:51
And and you talked about, you know, you're a big dork and I
1:24:54
love that. By the way, remember when we
1:24:55
were kids when someone would call you a dork or a nerd like
1:24:58
that cut you to the bottom. Now today I'm like you call me a
1:25:00
nerd over track or code like I I.
1:25:02
It's a compliment. Yeah, Yeah.
1:25:04
Yeah, exactly. So would you say because,
1:25:07
because someone's listening right now going OK, cool, I'm
1:25:10
going to interview for a head coaching job one day in my life
1:25:12
could be in the next year or five years.
1:25:13
So I'm going to create that packet now.
1:25:15
Would you say that packet, let me ask you a different way.
1:25:20
What percentage of that packet is unique to that school?
1:25:23
Some things are probably going to care, like if you're
1:25:25
interviewing for Benedictine versus Texas A&M versus Indiana
1:25:29
Wesleyan, some things are going to be the same.
1:25:32
But how much of A percentage is unique because you did your
1:25:35
research on that school? How much of is unique to
1:25:38
Benedictine? A lot of that because I'm not
1:25:42
only using this packet to get a job.
1:25:44
This is this is going to be my playbook the first three months
1:25:49
that I'm on campus, you know, so I am putting in ideas of, hey,
1:25:54
these are the I look at the roster right now.
1:25:57
This is the percentage of kids that are are coming from this
1:26:00
high school or this junior college and things like that.
1:26:03
Here's my idea. These are the first phone calls
1:26:06
that I make. So it's, it's very unique to the
1:26:09
to Benedictine at the at the time.
1:26:11
Hey, this is what we're going to do to make sure that, you know,
1:26:14
hey, this year we're we're probably going to be, you know,
1:26:17
5th place at conference. But this is, these are the
1:26:20
athletes that we need to kind of focus on, you know, I, I think.
1:26:24
I like that. Sorry to keep interruption here.
1:26:26
You're good. You're providing so much value
1:26:28
in my mind is just spinning like, oh, how do we, you know,
1:26:31
I'm always thinking it's kind of the, the podcast is morphed a
1:26:35
little bit. It used to be 100% about
1:26:37
uplifting honour in your journey.
1:26:38
And, and I, I still hold that as my number one goal here with the
1:26:42
podcast. But now because of the amount of
1:26:45
listeners that we have, it's like, oh, how can I leverage
1:26:48
this individual's experiences to help the thousands that are
1:26:53
listening right? So, so you got my mind just
1:26:55
spinning like, oh man, I've got to help Susie and Tanya and you
1:26:59
know, so I don't think I've ever heard it necessarily.
1:27:03
I like how you said, not only is it the playbook, like I'm trying
1:27:06
to show Mr. Mrs. AD, you know, I'm the right fit for you as the
1:27:10
head coach, but you said something I hadn't heard before.
1:27:13
This is also my playbook for the first three months, two
1:27:17
quarters, 2 semesters, whatever. That's that sounds interesting
1:27:21
to me. Like talk to me more about that.
1:27:24
Well, you know, in that presentation, I'm, I'm promising
1:27:27
a lot. You know, this is what we're
1:27:29
going to do. So my my biggest fear, and I've
1:27:32
never had this issue, but you know, three years down the road
1:27:36
that it gets thrown back in my face.
1:27:37
Hey, you know you were going to. Yeah, yeah.
1:27:40
Wait a minute. Hey, Kevin here.
1:27:42
Here's your plan. Now in the 50%, you know,
1:27:48
additional, you know, dollars that you're going to raise, you
1:27:51
know, and you're going to take the roster from 50 to 75.
1:27:55
What the heck, Patterson? You know, So, you know, if, if,
1:27:59
if that's the the only, the only thing that you're using that for
1:28:04
is to get a job. You're going to put yourself in
1:28:07
a difficult position if you don't win conference
1:28:11
championships or have all Americans that are going to show
1:28:15
that success. You know, so it's, it's just
1:28:18
like, you know, being a, you know, a, you know, a sales Rep,
1:28:21
you know, you're going to have those metrics that you have to
1:28:24
keep to, you know, either you know, get your, you know, ask
1:28:28
for that raise or, you know, in, in worst case scenario, make
1:28:32
sure that you're showing that value that, that you're creating
1:28:36
for that company. That's what I've been doing
1:28:37
wrong in my, my 18 years here. I got to start doing that.
1:28:40
That's I got to start doing that.
1:28:42
What else did you do to prepare? So I hear this packet and you
1:28:45
know, we can probably do a whole podcast just on packet
1:28:48
preparation as far as what you're doing, what you're how
1:28:50
you research, what to put it, because it's going to be
1:28:52
different for Benedictine than it was, was probably for Central
1:28:55
Missouri, etcetera, etcetera. What else did you do to prepare?
1:28:57
Did you call anybody? Did you, well, you didn't have
1:29:01
chat GPTS. Like did you ask ChatGPT?
1:29:02
What questions is an AD going to ask their, you know, potential
1:29:05
head tracker? What else did you do to prepare
1:29:07
for this interview? You know, so I, I did as much,
1:29:09
you know, information as possible.
1:29:11
You know, I, I really digged into, you know, the, the
1:29:13
athletic directors and the, you know, associate athletic
1:29:16
directors, their backgrounds to see if there is any, you know,
1:29:22
you know, background in terms of those things because it goes
1:29:24
both ways. You know, I want to make sure
1:29:25
that, you know, on, on, on paper, this looks incredible.
1:29:29
You know, at, at this point in my coaching career, I never had
1:29:32
a track. I was a track coach, but I never
1:29:35
had my own track and Benedictine had one.
1:29:37
So, you know, it was that this big fancy, you know, shiny thing
1:29:41
that that was, that looked awesome.
1:29:43
But I wanted to make sure that from, you know, it was going to
1:29:47
be a good social fit, it was going to going to be a good
1:29:50
environment for me to continue to grow.
1:29:53
That's an important part to Kevin.
1:29:56
I talk about this a lot when we hire and interview people here
1:30:00
that I'm involved with. When you're interviewing, it's
1:30:04
easy to get into the trap of like, oh, I'm going to show up
1:30:08
however they want. You know, whatever their picture
1:30:10
of a track coach in this mind is, I'm going to be that.
1:30:12
I'm going to talk that talk and put who you actually are to the
1:30:17
sideline. And it's such a mistake.
1:30:18
I, I, I, you know, I beg our, you know, our, our candidates
1:30:22
when we're here, I'm like, Hey, you got to you got to be, be
1:30:25
real, because if this is not the right job for you, we're going
1:30:28
to try to be not try. We are going to be as real as
1:30:30
possible. I don't want you answer the way
1:30:32
I you think I want answer answer right, Because if I don't see
1:30:35
that you're a good fit and you realize that you're not a good
1:30:38
fit, thank goodness you don't get hired for your own sake.
1:30:41
So you may think, oh, Benedictine is the greatest
1:30:43
place in the world. I'm going to answer exactly how
1:30:45
they want. And then you get there.
1:30:46
You're like, Oh my gosh, my ad is terrible.
1:30:49
Like what am I doing here? Oh my gosh, I didn't know that.
1:30:51
I also they didn't tell me that I was going to have or no, I
1:30:53
thought it'd be easier being also the the ticket office
1:30:56
director. That's not uncommon in school
1:31:00
track and field here in in reality, that's 85% of my job.
1:31:03
I'm not even, you know, you got to make sure that it's OK that
1:31:07
you don't get a job because you showed up as your real self and
1:31:09
asked questions and got the real answer and decided that was not
1:31:13
the right job for me or that they decided you're not the
1:31:15
right. You know, they using that ticket
1:31:16
office thing and you know, they say, hey, you know, part of the
1:31:18
job is ticket office, but don't worry, it's only 30% of the
1:31:21
time. Oh, cool.
1:31:21
Let me know more about that. And you got to start sussing out
1:31:25
like, is it really 30%? What is that?
1:31:26
How does that affect So does that mean you're going to give
1:31:28
me that slack on the track, on the trackside?
1:31:30
Meaning if we only get 6 then not second?
1:31:32
Well, OK, we understand. But you're also yeah, you're
1:31:36
doing tickets or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:31:37
You got to you got to realize that that's that's super smart
1:31:39
on doing your research on who am I going to be working for and
1:31:42
with I. Love that exactly because with
1:31:44
any you know, it goes both sides.
1:31:45
You know, you are getting that that you know, hiring committees
1:31:49
huge best thing because they're trying to woo you as well.
1:31:52
That's right, you know, and. I get that.
1:31:54
That's exactly right. Exactly, you know, so you have
1:31:57
to do that in, you know, that that thing, you know,
1:31:59
Benedictine was a little bit different.
1:32:01
Matt Jones is still the the director of admissions over
1:32:04
there. He wasn't trying to woo anybody.
1:32:06
You know, he was, he was, he was direct to the point, you know,
1:32:09
trying to, you know, dig into me like he, he, he, you know, like
1:32:13
this is who he is. And, and I know exactly that.
1:32:15
Did did he or anybody in the hiring process committee, did
1:32:20
they ask you a question that you're like, did not expect
1:32:23
that. Not a bad question, but like my
1:32:25
gosh, I did all this research, did not think they would ask me
1:32:27
about X anything like that, that kind of like you had to on the
1:32:31
fly answer correctly, but it was like I did not expect that.
1:32:35
Yeah, I mean, you know, talking about Matt Jones, like, you
1:32:37
know, you know, coming from the NAI, it's an NCAA at that point.
1:32:41
He was the, the compliance director, you know, and he was
1:32:44
like, you know, you're coming from the NAI.
1:32:46
It's wild, Wild West. How can I trust you now?
1:32:48
I'm like, what? We, we, we, you know, you're,
1:32:51
you're telling me that you can't trust me already.
1:32:53
Holy cow. You know, I just met you 5
1:32:56
minutes ago, you know, so it, that was just, you know, his
1:32:59
personality. He's just going to, he's going
1:33:01
to throw it out like that. And, and, you know, you know, I
1:33:04
think I, you know, obviously, obviously I answered it okay
1:33:08
enough to kind of get the position.
1:33:09
But you know, that was like the first time in that kind of
1:33:13
interviewing process wherever I was.
1:33:15
I'm like, I don't, you know, because I'm again, I'm a dork.
1:33:18
I'm doing this research. I have a lot of of insight and
1:33:21
everywhere I'm going, but it's like, whoa, like, you know,
1:33:24
you're telling me that I'm going to cheat right away and and do
1:33:26
all these things because, you know, I'm only coming from the
1:33:28
NEI, you know, so I kind of had to push back.
1:33:31
I'm like, you know, hey, it's not the wild, Wild West.
1:33:33
We have rules too there. Yeah, rule book is a little
1:33:36
smaller, though. I, I, I know JUCO, JUCO.
1:33:39
I'm always like, yeah, there wasn't, I'm not, There was a
1:33:41
couple of pages. We didn't really have a book.
1:33:42
And then, you know, you get to NCAA.
1:33:44
So what, what were those? You know, let's talk about your
1:33:45
time there at Benedictine. Very successful.
1:33:48
You grew the program. How you know?
1:33:51
I say you're an AIA kid. You know from athlete to the
1:33:53
coaching positions. What, what, what did you what
1:33:57
notice? What differences did you even
1:33:59
notice? Not much to be honest with you.
1:34:02
You know, it's, it's, it's track to track, I think.
1:34:05
I think in track it's so cool. Is is we all compete at the same
1:34:08
meets and you know, a 10/5 in the 100 meter dash is the same
1:34:14
in the AI is, is is in division ones for our sport.
1:34:18
It's not that big of a difference.
1:34:19
There was some, you know, different things I had to do for
1:34:22
visits and things like that, you know, but again, you know,
1:34:25
that's, you know, if you can't figure that out, you know, you
1:34:27
probably shouldn't be in the in the business either way.
1:34:30
So, you know, so, you know, we, we, you know, I didn't see much
1:34:34
difference in that. And I really don't, you know,
1:34:36
for me as, as you know, a head coach hiring assistant coaches,
1:34:40
it never, you know, I never had fear of of, you know, you know,
1:34:44
interviewing people from the junior college level to the high
1:34:46
level because I think you know, in, in general, track is track.
1:34:52
Speaking of that, there's another part of the profession
1:34:55
of coaching track and field that we don't.
1:34:57
I don't know that I've ever heard anybody say they were
1:34:59
trained. How did you you now you've got a
1:35:03
staff. I'm not sure that you really had
1:35:06
one at CCSJ. How did you evolve?
1:35:11
I hope it's been evolved. Learning how to hire people,
1:35:15
what questions to ask, how to evaluate your staff on a year by
1:35:18
year basis. It it the, the most common thing
1:35:21
I hear is, oh, you're the head coach now.
1:35:23
Cool. You get to hire staff.
1:35:24
Good luck. Let us know who you hire.
1:35:26
Let us know who we're supposed to do background checks on and
1:35:29
that's all they you know that it's up to you to what questions
1:35:32
do I ask? What am I looking for fit
1:35:33
personality wise, you know, the talent wise seems like, you
1:35:38
know, we can identify that, but all the other things in
1:35:41
evaluations, how did you figure that out and then evolve with
1:35:44
that? Yeah, yeah, I was.
1:35:45
I was definitely thrown in that position.
1:35:47
So, you know, they're like we're going to name you director of
1:35:49
cross country and track and we added this position, go hire
1:35:52
your assistant coach. It's like, Oh, I was, you know,
1:35:54
for three years I, I didn't, I couldn't pay a, a, a, a coach
1:35:59
anything, you know, So I was, you know, if I wanted to, if I
1:36:02
wanted a pole vaulter, I had to learn how to coach pole vaulter.
1:36:05
You know, it's, you know, I had the Field of Dreams mentality.
1:36:09
You know, if I wanted to go get some throwers, I would just buy
1:36:12
a couple shot puts, you know, if, if you build it, they will
1:36:14
come, you know, different things like that.
1:36:18
But but that position really became, you know, probably the
1:36:23
my most important hire probably in my entire career.
1:36:28
You know what, we hired Justin Kinseth, who was a graduate
1:36:32
assistant at Cardinal Stritch, another NAIA school, and me and
1:36:38
him really blew that program up. You know, we had very similar
1:36:45
philosophies. We are aggressive, you know, he
1:36:48
reminded, You know, I, I was recently married, so I, I didn't
1:36:52
have the, the full, you know, you know, there was, there was,
1:36:56
you know, events that I had to attend, you know, where I would
1:36:59
have to miss a meet here and there.
1:37:00
But you know, he was just aggressive in terms of that
1:37:04
incredible coach, incredible developer of student athletes.
1:37:09
And it showed did. You know him?
1:37:10
Do you know him before you interviewed him?
1:37:13
Yeah. So I I knew a little bit about
1:37:15
him. So, you know, we were in the
1:37:17
same conference with CCSJ. So how did you as as a
1:37:21
interviewer with the interviewee, how did you suss
1:37:24
out that he was going to be the attributes that you needed?
1:37:29
How did you like questions or body language?
1:37:33
How do you actually without know you know, that's why I asked if
1:37:36
you knew like Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:37:37
I've watched him for the last three years at meets doesn't
1:37:41
sound like that necessarily. So how do you suss out these
1:37:44
other character traits? Because you can, yeah.
1:37:46
You know, so I mean just. Asking is not that great, right?
1:37:48
Hey, are you going to be relentless?
1:37:49
Yes, I will. Cool.
1:37:50
It checks that box. You know, that's ludicrous.
1:37:52
How do you actually suss this out?
1:37:54
Yeah, so, so he was at Cardinal Stretch when I was at CCSJ.
1:37:59
You know, we were, we were in the same conference, you know,
1:38:02
he was a graduate assistant, but I think he had gone through two
1:38:04
or three head coaches in like 18 months.
1:38:08
It was crazy. So, you know, when you know,
1:38:11
they would leave, he would be interim and things like that.
1:38:13
But through all that turmoil, you know, they progressed as a
1:38:18
program, you know, and having those conversations, seeing how
1:38:22
he interacted with his student athletes and just having, you
1:38:26
know, genuine conversations like I, I knew it was going to be a,
1:38:30
you know, a good opportunity, you know, for for us to kind of
1:38:33
build that, that that program. You know, I figured, you know,
1:38:36
with the resources that we would have at Benedictine compared to
1:38:40
the lack of resources that we had at CCSGA and Carpets Rich,
1:38:44
that we could do something really, really special.
1:38:46
Yeah. Don't, don't you?
1:38:48
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
1:38:52
How much as you're doing hiring and evaluations, even up till
1:38:56
now, how much of like someone who has success at a under
1:39:02
resource program versus the opposite of that plays into
1:39:06
like, oh man, if this guy or gal can get it done at Cardinal
1:39:09
stretch, like you said there, you know, we're, we're, we're 10
1:39:12
times more funded. They should have a field day.
1:39:14
They should be more successful. How much does that play into it?
1:39:16
Because I, I remember like, you know, my whole goal was to get
1:39:19
to the SEC. So I get to Mississippi State
1:39:21
and you know, I was at Ball State before that junior
1:39:23
college, things like that. You know, we get to Mississippi
1:39:25
State. We had a, it felt like a billion
1:39:27
dollar budget, you know, our kids didn't want for, for shoes.
1:39:30
I mean, we went wherever we wanted for meats.
1:39:32
And then when I got out of coaching, when I thought I
1:39:34
wanted to get back into coaching, I remember I, I one of
1:39:37
the first times of like real self-awareness for me.
1:39:39
I was like, I can't go back to small school.
1:39:42
I, I got to go back to power 5. I just can't, I can't do it.
1:39:46
And honestly, through the grace of God, nobody wanted me that it
1:39:50
worked out perfectly because I'm here where I am and things like
1:39:52
that. But but, but I I don't know, I
1:39:56
think I would have struggled going back to a Ball State after
1:39:59
I've been in the Mississippi State.
1:40:01
I would have just mentally me, I would have struggled like, what
1:40:03
do you mean I can't get this? What do you mean I can't get
1:40:05
these extra shoe? I need this for the athletes.
1:40:08
You know what you mean? I can't just get in a plane and
1:40:10
go see this recruit in California.
1:40:11
What do you mean? You know, it's how you want to
1:40:13
be successful. This is what I believe.
1:40:15
So what I've been shown you need to be successful.
1:40:17
How much does that play into when you're thinking about
1:40:19
interviewing or not interviewing someone kind of a small school
1:40:22
under resource versus, you know, resource?
1:40:25
No, it's, it's everything. And even today, you know, as, as
1:40:28
I look for coaches and things like that, I know, I, I, you
1:40:31
know, because, you know, yeah, there's going to be those, those
1:40:33
power fives and, and then there's everybody else, you
1:40:36
know. So if, if you've been at a Power
1:40:38
5 where you've had a director of OPS your entire coaching career
1:40:43
and, you know, they set up all the recruit days, all you do is
1:40:46
just e-mail them a name. And hey, you know, Johnny's
1:40:48
going to be here on Saturday. Well, it's that that's not how
1:40:53
it happens here. You know, you got to do
1:40:55
everything and then you got to hope that admissions isn't busy
1:40:57
that day so they could do the campus tour.
1:41:00
So you have, you know, 90 minutes where you can get a
1:41:02
practice in before the recruit comes back to those things.
1:41:05
So it's it's important in terms of those things that that you
1:41:09
know, that there's that expectations where you know,
1:41:11
hey, this is what we have. And you know, for for me and
1:41:15
Justin, like we were so excited about the weight room we had and
1:41:19
the track we had. And I think the recruits saw
1:41:23
that. You know, where if you know, if
1:41:25
you take that step back, you know, if you, you know, you
1:41:27
know, I'm an Indiana guy myself some.
1:41:29
So no offense to Ball State, but if you look at Ball State's
1:41:32
football stadium on a Saturday, in Mississippi State's football
1:41:37
stadium on a Saturday, 2 official visits, back-to-back
1:41:41
weekends, who you going to pick? You know, if that's important to
1:41:46
you, you would take the same state.
1:41:48
That's important to you, But you know, if but, and, and the same
1:41:52
thing goes going with with coaches, you know, you could
1:41:54
really pump up like, hey, Mississippi State football,
1:41:58
we're playing Alabama, We're going to put you, you know, on
1:42:02
the field and it's going to be awesome.
1:42:04
But then you go from Mississippi State to Ball State where, hey,
1:42:07
we're playing, you know, Western Michigan and the stadium's going
1:42:11
to be halfway filled. Yeah, yeah.
1:42:15
Yeah. But you know, how are you going
1:42:16
to you know, what are you how what your expectations and how
1:42:20
are you selling that to our? How do you overcome that?
1:42:23
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's the
1:42:25
biggest. How many years it been
1:42:27
addicting? I was there for five years.
1:42:29
That's what I thought. I thought you were there for a
1:42:30
while. I'm a speed up just a little bit
1:42:33
just for the interest of time, because you, you had a very
1:42:36
successful time at Benedictine, that's for sure.
1:42:40
You know, I, I get very, I pigeonhole people very much like
1:42:43
for me, I was like, that's where I kind of got to know you at.
1:42:46
And it was like, oh, Kevin, he's a Benedictine guy.
1:42:48
And then I see that Kevin's leaving Benedictine and he's
1:42:51
going to another. I mean, you talk about his, the
1:42:54
history of this program you go to.
1:42:56
I almost said Central Missouri State University of Central
1:42:59
Missouri. I'm old.
1:43:02
They they used to be CMSU back in the day.
1:43:05
Why? Well, before that, I was at, I
1:43:08
was, I was at Lenoir Ryan for the five years as well.
1:43:12
That's right, yeah. So how can I forget?
1:43:16
You know, I told you I don't do any research.
1:43:17
Maybe I should, because another wow you a lot of success at
1:43:21
Lenoir, Ryan as well. Yeah, Yeah.
1:43:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, Lenoir Ryan was was
1:43:27
very similar as as well. You know, it was kind of you
1:43:29
know, you know, it was kind of what Benedict and what I thought
1:43:33
it could be Lenovo Ryan was the same way.
1:43:36
So I was only the second full time track and field coach in
1:43:39
Lenovo Ryan history. You know, back had been off and
1:43:42
on. We always had to create football
1:43:44
program and and other programs as well.
1:43:47
You know, Kim Pate, you know, our ID over there really wanted
1:43:50
to kind of take that to the next level.
1:43:53
You know, so again, you know, I was kind of able to, you know,
1:43:55
be tasked with those things, you know, as at LR for five years,
1:43:59
you know, we hadn't had much, you know, success at the
1:44:03
national level. You know, I, I think up up a few
1:44:12
years ago, we hadn't had a a a a women representative at
1:44:17
nationals at LR since like 2012. And you know, we've had multiple
1:44:23
national champions. Obviously Alexis Brown is
1:44:26
incredible. We won the the four by one last
1:44:29
year as well, But I think, you know, the women's had, you know,
1:44:32
four straight, you know, national championships were that
1:44:34
we're top ten in the country, you know, so that's something
1:44:38
that, you know, was was absolutely incredible, you know,
1:44:40
in terms of those things. So Benedictine was D3, right?
1:44:46
Yeah. And Lenore Ryan's D. 2.
1:44:50
And you started off with a lot of NAIA influence.
1:44:54
It's interesting how much, and you know, I asked the question
1:44:57
about any IE to D to NCAA in general.
1:45:00
How about, you know, the changes you've seen what you have to do
1:45:04
in any IE to be successful, Division 3 to be successful and
1:45:07
now Division 2. Is there a lot of change?
1:45:09
I mean that we know how much is the ability of scholarships
1:45:13
because that's the, I don't say that's the real big change.
1:45:15
There's obviously other changes, but that is a big change.
1:45:17
How much does that change how you have to be as a coach?
1:45:22
I mean, it's huge, you know, it, it opens up those opportunities,
1:45:25
you know, you know, when I was at Benedictine, you know, my, my
1:45:28
sales pitch was, you know, to the, the state champion in
1:45:32
Illinois, you know, hey, I hope you liked it.
1:45:34
And, you know, you got to pay $20,000 a year and if you win a
1:45:37
national championship with me, you still have to pay $20,000 a
1:45:41
year because we're Division Three, you know, and it's, you
1:45:45
know, and it's, it's, it's a challenge, you know, and
1:45:48
obviously that, that school down the hill, North Central has done
1:45:50
an incredible job with that. And we had a good job, You know,
1:45:53
we, we, we retained a lot of our, our top athletes at
1:45:56
Benedict. And, but you know what, being
1:45:58
that division two, it's, it changes those opportunities, you
1:46:02
know, because you know, sometimes that you know, that,
1:46:05
that that state champion is, is, you know, I, I've had a lot of
1:46:08
buddies that had a lot of success, you know, in, in
1:46:10
Indiana that were state champions and went to a big
1:46:13
time, you know, Power 5 program and they got their books paid
1:46:16
for, you know, where you know, you're able to, to really kind
1:46:20
of be a little bit more competitive in terms of the
1:46:22
recruitment process because there is on top of those things.
1:46:26
So if it's an athlete that you really, really want, we have the
1:46:28
opportunity to get full rides, you know, at Lenore Rhine and,
1:46:32
and that allowed us to get some, some really, really good student
1:46:34
athletes. You know, I always think about
1:46:36
scholarshipping. It's kind of like it's kind of
1:46:39
the exact same thing I do selling track equipment, just in
1:46:41
the reverse. You're trying to get kids at the
1:46:45
least possible 'cause you know, if you get a great kid at 50%
1:46:49
versus 100, well, that's another 50% you get to go give out
1:46:51
another great kid or whatnot. How did you, how did you learn
1:46:55
that process? Because you hadn't had that
1:46:57
process really before or somewhat you did you know with
1:46:59
any IE, but you know, you had some pretty small scholarship in
1:47:01
there. And did your business background
1:47:04
at all help in that management of your, your, your funds?
1:47:08
You have a certain amount of funds that you can give out and
1:47:11
you got to do a complete team. Yeah, definitely.
1:47:13
You know, and I think that's that's, you know, in the track
1:47:16
and field world, you know how you're winning conference
1:47:19
championships and how you're winning national championships
1:47:23
is based on a number. And that's something that I
1:47:26
always do and I updated, I always have that that three-year
1:47:29
average, what it takes to win a national championship, top four,
1:47:33
top ten, top 15, top 25. And that's what we always strive
1:47:37
for, you know, so you're using those scholarship dollars and in
1:47:42
like, it's kind of the moneyball philosophy.
1:47:44
You know, you're you're trying to yeah, I don't want to say the
1:47:48
word by because, you know, obviously there's so much more
1:47:51
to our athlete and journey, but you're trying to invest to score
1:47:56
X amount of points, you know, at the conference championship, at
1:48:01
the national championship to achieve these things, which in
1:48:05
return, you know, is going to make that recruitment process
1:48:08
that much easier. You know, everyone wants to be
1:48:12
on the top four by one in the country.
1:48:15
No one wants to be on the 93rd best four by one in the country.
1:48:19
So if, if you're getting recruited by the number 93 team
1:48:23
in the country, you know, you're probably going to want that that
1:48:27
scholarship to be a little bit higher.
1:48:28
But if you have that opportunity to win a, a national
1:48:31
championship at North Central or this school or that, you know,
1:48:35
you, you put a little bit more value in that program, in that
1:48:38
developments and that that college experience.
1:48:41
Yeah, Yeah. You know, you made a really good
1:48:45
correction there that I need to get better at the investment
1:48:48
into the student athletes. Not buying that.
1:48:50
You're right. That's too much of my business
1:48:51
side. Yeah. 24. 7 that that's more
1:48:55
appropriate way to say that and I I should follow suit with
1:48:57
that. You you were you know I told you
1:49:00
I pigeonhole you, right. So you are Benedictine totally
1:49:03
forgot about Lenore Ryan. Even though I was at nationals
1:49:05
talk. I now have Remember this
1:49:06
conversation we had here? The 100 meters during practice?
1:49:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so dumb.
1:49:10
Sorry. Very successful at Lenore Ryan.
1:49:14
Yeah. Why a why go, you know, back to
1:49:18
the Midwest, but not where you're from?
1:49:21
You're still a pretty good little hall there.
1:49:22
But on top of that, I think of, you know, Central Missouri with
1:49:26
the coaches that they had there with Kip and Kirk and I, and I
1:49:30
think you said Kirk's still there, but you know, Kip is
1:49:34
legendary. Let's just be, I can't imagine
1:49:38
like I have 0 jealousy over Bucky taking over for John
1:49:45
McDonnell, Dennis when he took over for Pat Whoever's going to
1:49:49
take over for Pat one day and mouse And you know, I just like,
1:49:53
dude, how why would you want to put yourself through that?
1:49:56
You will never live up to that. You know, maybe one day when
1:49:59
people forget about, you know, 30 years on, they'll forget
1:50:01
about mouse. But for the next three to 10
1:50:03
years, they always remember what mouse has done, right.
1:50:05
How do you, why do you make the decision to leave somewhere
1:50:09
you're very successful at go to another again, You know, Central
1:50:13
Missouri, you got some history there, bro.
1:50:15
I mean, that's an amazing program and you get to take over
1:50:20
for this legend. You you can't fill his shoes.
1:50:23
You got to wear different shoes. Why?
1:50:25
It just seems like like, I don't know, are you just like you just
1:50:28
like pain and suffering? I don't know, like you just like
1:50:30
to be make things hard for you. I don't know why.
1:50:33
Why do this? Central Missouri is, is a school
1:50:37
that I always kept my eye on. You know, I, I think as as much
1:50:43
success as we had at Lenore Rhine, we weren't fully funded.
1:50:49
It would have been a difficult, it would have to be perfect for
1:50:52
us to win a national championship at Lenore.
1:50:55
Ryan, as as much as you know, we are in this sport to be
1:51:01
incredible role models and uplift, you know, our student
1:51:05
athletes, if we win a national championship, that's the cherry
1:51:10
on top. You know, and, and, and, and,
1:51:13
and I am a competitive person. I want to make sure that we're
1:51:16
doing everything in the right way, but I want to win a
1:51:19
national championship. So Kip is a legend, 100%, but he
1:51:24
has given me, you know, and everybody here at Central
1:51:28
Missouri, a road map of what it takes to win a national
1:51:31
championship. We have 54 individual or relay
1:51:36
national champions in division two.
1:51:38
It's absolutely incredible. I could see where some people
1:51:44
might be hesitant to, you know, step into this position because
1:51:49
of, you know, Kip retiring. For me, that just made me more
1:51:54
excited. I've my entire career as a
1:51:58
coach, I've been hired to resurrect programs or take them
1:52:03
to the next level. The bones are here.
1:52:07
It's it's, it's different here. We have those traditions.
1:52:11
I walk into my office every single day and I see just a ton
1:52:15
of NCAA trophies and, and it gets me hungry and, and you're
1:52:20
right, I'm not going to replace Kip.
1:52:22
He's he's a legend, he's an Olympian.
1:52:24
And we've had a long discussion how I was a very average student
1:52:28
athlete. Me, me and you were limp.
1:52:32
We limped through. This, you know, But you know,
1:52:38
for me, I've been very, very intentional talking to alumni,
1:52:41
talking to students, you know, talking to the students that we
1:52:45
have and, and any alumni that'll listen to me, I've, I've always
1:52:49
asked the question, give me three things that have to stay
1:52:52
the same here at Central Missouri and give me three
1:52:54
things that you think that we, we need to change to make this
1:52:58
program even better. You know, so we're, we're
1:53:02
really, really intentional to make sure that, you know, those
1:53:04
traditions and, and obviously we have Kirk here as, who's a
1:53:07
legend himself, who's done an incredible job with our distance
1:53:11
program, you know, so, you know, I, you know, if, if I always
1:53:17
ever have a, you know, a question and things like that,
1:53:19
he's always available through those things.
1:53:21
But, you know, I, I think we're still the same program that won
1:53:26
the, the, you know, back-to-back national indoor and outdoor
1:53:28
championships in 2015. I, I think that we still have
1:53:31
those, you know, opportunities and, and I'm excited about the
1:53:35
future. How do you, you know, you have
1:53:39
your own culture and style? And sometimes culture is a
1:53:43
little overused. You know, there's still like
1:53:47
there's basics in all in, in most of our programs, there's
1:53:51
basics of culture, meaning, hey, we're going to go to class and
1:53:54
we're going to do good in grades.
1:53:55
Hey, we're going to compete at a high level.
1:53:56
We're going to come to practice, you know, we're going to uplift
1:53:59
each other, things like that. But there are nuances like, Hey,
1:54:02
I you know, I expect this out of our kids and hey, we're going to
1:54:06
be more distance focused. I don't know, not necessarily,
1:54:09
but you know, we're going to be more focused necessarily on this
1:54:12
event group over here. But you also have a, a very
1:54:17
successful program, a again, a legend in in Kip.
1:54:22
You have a part of that puzzle that you know that that's what
1:54:26
to me culture is. It's it's a puzzle with a bunch
1:54:28
of whole different pieces in there.
1:54:29
One of those pieces, Kirk is still there.
1:54:33
How do you sometimes, so when you went to CCSJ, if you were to
1:54:38
think of like a, as a boat, you had to like 180 that boat, you
1:54:42
know, and, and luckily it was a small boat so you could do it
1:54:44
quickly. I, I feel like you correct me
1:54:49
where I'm wrong that a program like UCM, it's a bigger boat
1:54:54
because it has a lot more tradition history.
1:54:55
And you know what? I'm not, I'm not looking to do
1:54:57
180. I'm looking to move 1° or two.
1:55:00
How do you do that knowing that you could say, blow it up and do
1:55:05
everything differently, you know, your own ways or other
1:55:07
ways that you've done it? How do you manage that?
1:55:10
That's really the question. How do you manage subtle moves
1:55:13
that are still forward that you know, knowing that you could
1:55:17
make a, you know, yank on that steering wheel and kill through
1:55:20
this thing pretty bad? You know what I'm saying?
1:55:23
Yeah, no, it's, it's for for me, it's been pretty simple.
1:55:27
Kip was a developer like I was, so our philosophies and the type
1:55:34
of kids that we have on our roster right now are the type of
1:55:38
athletes that I would have recruited at Lenore, Ron or
1:55:42
Benedictine or CCSGI. So that's been super, super
1:55:46
easy. I make sure that I'm very
1:55:48
intentional of explaining why we do things the way that we're
1:55:51
doing them now, because that philosophy has changed
1:55:54
significantly in terms of, you know, just in terms of volume
1:55:58
and intensity of our training program.
1:56:01
But I make sure that, that every single, because I, you know, we,
1:56:04
we brought in some about 6 athletes here in January that
1:56:08
I'm really, really excited about.
1:56:09
But, you know, of a roster of 120, you know, you know, 114 of
1:56:15
those athletes I never recruited, you know, so they
1:56:19
came here for a number of reasons.
1:56:21
But I'm sure one of those reasons is because, you know,
1:56:24
having Kip as their head coach. So meeting with everybody
1:56:28
explaining like, Hey, this is what we're trying to accomplish.
1:56:31
And I think this is where we'll find success at.
1:56:35
But also understand that, hey, you know, Kip was this this
1:56:39
legendary coach that that, you know, I mean, some of the
1:56:42
athletes that we have that won national championships had had
1:56:47
no business winning national championships, you know, and I
1:56:51
think if you look at at, you know, my national champions, I
1:56:56
think it's very, very similar. These are kids that that just
1:56:59
weren't getting recruited out of high school.
1:57:01
Someone gave them a chance. They believed that they could be
1:57:04
national champs and the hard work fall of that and and on
1:57:08
that special day, we were able to achieve that that ultimate
1:57:11
goal. I think that's so similar here
1:57:14
at at Central Missouri. So I think, I think our alumni
1:57:18
more than anything are they love the sport and, you know, they've
1:57:23
done their research on me, you know, where I, I think that they
1:57:28
see that's, you know, hey, you know, that I've, I've been able
1:57:31
to take these programs to the next level.
1:57:34
You know, everyone that I've had the chance to meet, you know,
1:57:37
I've, I've, you know, told them about my family and, and my
1:57:40
philosophies and things like that.
1:57:43
And then I've also told them it's, it's going to be important
1:57:47
that we are proud of our, our history.
1:57:50
You know, we have some, some things in the works to, you
1:57:53
know, to honor, you know, Kip and, and Kirk and their careers
1:57:56
and just the incredible amount of, of student athletes that
1:58:00
they've touched the past 3637 years here in Warrensburg.
1:58:06
You know, and, you know, I'm, I'm 40, so I don't know if I
1:58:09
have 36 years of coaching in me, but you know, I want to make
1:58:14
sure that, you know, the legacies that they left that
1:58:17
that are celebrated. And, you know, I'm a big legacy
1:58:20
guy myself. I want to make sure that, you
1:58:22
know, I'm, I'm creating the right legacy of, of where we're
1:58:26
continuing to, to be the, the, the mules and Jennies that we
1:58:30
were the past 40 years. And, and, and making sure that
1:58:33
we keep that ship moving forward and do those things, you know,
1:58:37
and, and we, we coach different events.
1:58:39
So we're, you know, meet and Kip coach different events.
1:58:42
So there's going to be some, some pivots to those things.
1:58:45
But, you know, I'm going to show our alumni and, and everybody
1:58:48
here, you know, in, in Warrensburg and in the Kansas
1:58:50
City area, that's, you know, everything that we do and, and
1:58:53
the, the type of student athletes that we bring in, we're
1:58:57
going to do at a very high level.
1:58:58
You know, it's, it's striking to me throughout your career, kind
1:59:04
of the leveling up if, if you will, you know, one of the, one
1:59:08
of the first levels up where you know, you graduating high school
1:59:12
and going to college, your own level up of your family
1:59:15
competing in college, getting a college degree.
1:59:18
And then throughout your coaching, you know, a volunteer
1:59:21
sent NAI and then a paid NAI and then going D3 and D2.
1:59:25
You know, going to Benedict and you know, your first, first time
1:59:28
I've had a track and you know, now you're Central Missouri and
1:59:32
you've got an indoor facility and an outdoor facility.
1:59:34
You know, you just keep leveling up there, my friend.
1:59:37
And I believe that, you know, that's the type of person that
1:59:41
is going to level up where they are now.
1:59:43
And so what's cool to see is, you know, you're not starting at
1:59:46
Ground Zero. You're starting at, you know, on
1:59:47
the maybe the third floor to level up to floor four and five
1:59:51
and six. It's pretty, pretty exciting to
1:59:53
be able to be on the sidelines and watch that move along.
1:59:57
Yeah, it's, it's, it's been great.
1:59:59
You know, I wouldn't be here with without the the support of
2:00:02
so many people, you know? This doesn't happen.
2:00:06
You know what what we do, I mean, you know, without that,
2:00:10
that supportive, you know, spouse care has been incredible.
2:00:14
You know, sometimes it's a hard sell.
2:00:17
You know, we just got back from Orlando for a week trying to
2:00:21
tell your spouse that, yeah, I'm going to this, this great place.
2:00:24
It's going to be 75°. You know, they got this, this
2:00:27
this lazy river. But I'm going there to be, you
2:00:30
know, you know, to, to do business.
2:00:32
You know, sometimes that's, that's hard sell, you know, but,
2:00:35
you know, I think with anybody, you know, in this profession,
2:00:42
your success is, is, is tied to your wife or your, your spouse
2:00:46
or your significant mother so much because, you know, without
2:00:50
the sacrifices that they make, it's, it's impossible to have
2:00:54
that, that thing, you know, So it's, it's important for her,
2:00:58
you know, you know, with the, you know, walking through all of
2:01:02
this, you know, she, she gave me this awesome Christmas presents.
2:01:07
It's, you know, it's as, you know, home is where coaching
2:01:11
takes us. And it's, it's so true in this
2:01:15
profession. But you know, I've just been so
2:01:18
lucky with the, the people around me.
2:01:21
And, you know, I, I try to try my best to, you know, make this
2:01:25
about the athletes and it's, it's never about me.
2:01:29
And, and I think that's where the success comes from.
2:01:32
Well, you're obviously doing a great job in the many, many
2:01:35
roles that you have, you know, husband, son, father.
2:01:39
You know, I just when we're recording this, I just retweeted
2:01:43
a tweet with and all I put was 3 broken hearts because it was, I
2:01:47
think it was a football coach. I think it might have been a
2:01:49
baseball coach. I think it was a football coach.
2:01:51
And they were saying that, you know, in the coaching
2:01:53
profession, it is impossible to be a good father and husband.
2:01:56
And that breaks my heart to hear any coach say that.
2:01:59
And I think having examples like you is important for young
2:02:04
people who, who maybe are, you know, they're in the profession
2:02:07
at 2425 years old going, yeah, you know, probably won't ever be
2:02:10
married or won't ever, you know, be a, a parent.
2:02:13
And it's like, no, bro, you can. And not only can you, you can do
2:02:16
it at a high level. You know, again, there's no
2:02:19
bigger fan of track coaches than myself.
2:02:21
And I still would say your role as a track coach is maybe #4 or
2:02:25
#5 on the priority list. You know, you know, again, son
2:02:29
and husband and father and you know, where your faith sits and
2:02:33
things like that are all more important to coaching.
2:02:35
And I think coaching is extremely important.
2:02:37
So, but we have to have examples like that, that you can be, you
2:02:43
can have your priorities in the right order.
2:02:45
And I'm really proud of you for that.
2:02:47
It makes, it makes a huge impact and makes their job easier to
2:02:52
support you as well. By the way, you know, when you
2:02:55
have that reciprocity, that's like, oh, you know, I don't mind
2:02:57
letting him go to Orlando for a week because you know, he's
2:02:59
going to come back and be really intentional, you know, as a as a
2:03:03
mate and as a as a father. So that's a product man.
2:03:07
Kevin, man, you know, the most important and most valuable
2:03:10
thing that you can give me is time.
2:03:12
You're busy. You know, I can't, I can't
2:03:14
imagine what it takes in the first year of a program.
2:03:18
You're you're being constantly tugged on.
2:03:20
Hey, we need you over here. We need you to do this.
2:03:21
You're you've got a million ideas of your own.
2:03:23
If I want to get this done and do this and meet with these
2:03:25
people. So, you know, for you to take
2:03:28
some time here at the beginning of indoor season, for crying out
2:03:30
loud, to sit down with us and share your journey, man, it
2:03:33
means the absolute world to me and all of us here at Gill.
2:03:36
I'm just really, really grateful and just love you, man.
2:03:39
Just, you know, blessings this year.
2:03:41
I can't wait to see you. I'll see you in Indy and I'll
2:03:43
see you in Pueblo and, and I'll remember that you're in Central
2:03:47
Missouri and no longer at Benedictine.
2:03:49
Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully it'll, it'll stick up here.
2:03:51
But Kevin, for real man, just very grateful for you and thank
2:03:54
you so much for for being with us today.
2:03:56
No, this is an honor, Mike. I really appreciate it.
2:03:58
Absolutely, thank you guys for being here.
2:04:00
You know, season 6, I'm not sure we've had a string to start off
2:04:04
a season of coaches like we've had so far.
2:04:07
And I think it's testament to, you know, a little bit of what
2:04:10
the podcast is as far as I don't see importance, but you know
2:04:13
what it means now in the track and field, specifically coaching
2:04:15
world. But I am grateful for all the
2:04:17
men and women that join us here. I hope you have received value
2:04:20
that is, it's still #2 it's it's still #1 to uplift and honor
2:04:24
these these guys and gals. But quickly on its heels is to
2:04:27
add as much value to the profession for those who choose
2:04:29
to be track coaches no matter what level out there.
2:04:32
And so I hope I know this did. If you listen to it, I know this
2:04:35
added value. Join us next week and we'll
2:04:37
we'll do it all over again. Thanks guys.
2:04:41
If it goes to appreciate the coach the ones that point people
2:04:44
most every season needs a voice of reason to speak in the growth
2:04:47
you got to prep before you carry the load.
2:04:49
Ice coffee to the sole for those of us who stay on the go proper
2:04:53
handoff to stay in the zone which you packing for the road.
2:04:55
There's more than one way to go. Take notes, that's paying you're
2:04:58
told it ain't practice if your purpose ain't clear.
2:05:01
It can't happen until you listen with both ears.
2:05:03
You can't mentor without a mentor.
2:05:05
Years of experience you can reinvent those years every
2:05:08
plan's got to stand and deliver up to.
2:05:11
And the price sacrifice can you give up you.
2:05:13
It's a choice and a fight, not a win or lose.
2:05:15
It's not a ploy boy device. Y'all can make more moves.
2:05:18
It's not about how to it's all about why you don't know till
2:05:21
you know who you are inside 6,000,000 waste of time, choose
2:05:25
none so we y'all cross the finish line.
2:05:27
The work ain't done so we learn from the experts, but y'all got
2:05:30
to put in the leg work. Gil Athletics Network.
2:05:33
It's all about connections put together for the profession to
2:05:36
where every track coach could be blessing.