Latest / Sorta Sophisticated / Episode 112 - Unwritten and Non-Negotiable: Who Made These Rules?

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Episode 112 - Unwritten and Non-Negotiable: Who Made These Rules? · Sorta Sophisticated

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Welcome to Sorta Sophisticated with Pete and Amanda. All right, so you remember when we did our episode on tipping?
• 0:08
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 0:09
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 0:10
  Speaker B: That now I'm more vastly non tipping.
• 0:12
  Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. No, I was just gonna say that, like, sparked a lot of conversation with my friends. Like, when we go out to dinner, that topic comes up now a lot. Like, out of all our episodes, like, that's coming up and, like, how much do you do? Da, da, da. And then we ask the server, and, like, the server's got different answers for every single thing. And all of my friends have answers for everything.
• 0:29
  Speaker B: And.
• 0:30
  Speaker A: And then it dawned on me the other day, like, that's like an unwritten rule, right? There's no law. There's no way this is unwritten rule. I literally was arguing with someone at dinner about this topic, and I was like, we have a lot of unwritten rules. Like, our society has a lot of unwritten rules that. That govern society at a fundamental level. But, like, they're not written down. They're not. Like, literally, we just sort of learn them from, like, I guess, our parents and then our parents. Parents, whatever. And I know they change a little bit and morph over time and the whole thing, But I left the restaurant and, you know, I was driving home and I started thinking about a person merging in front of me. I think I own the space in front of me. And then my brain, because it was working in podcast mode, I was like, do I really own that space in front of me? Does that person have right to that space? Like, why do I think. And how much space in front of me do I really own versus how much space? So I started spinning and I'm like, we.
• 1:22
  Speaker B: You got real deep, real quick.
• 1:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, we're gonna do an episode on unwritten non negotiable rules that we all follow, but sort of have different answers for. Okay, may I use an example?
• 1:35
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 1:35
  Speaker A: I have even a better example. I was in this podcast studio for what, an hour waiting for you. Okay.
• 1:41
  Speaker B: No, not an hour. How long you got here at what, 150?
• 1:45
  Speaker A: I was here at 1. Yeah, 150.
• 1:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, I got here at 127.
• 1:48
  Speaker A: 227.
• 1:49
  Speaker B: Sorry. Yes, 227.
• 1:50
  Speaker A: You got here at 227. Okay, okay. So 45 minutes. So my point is, is I have an unwritten rule that wasn't 45 minutes.
• 1:57
  Speaker B: 37.
• 1:58
  Speaker A: Whatever. Math.
• 1:59
  Speaker B: 45 cents worth 30.
• 2:00
  Speaker A: Okay. But my point is, we have different versions of. Does that, like, are you fashionably late or did you break the rule now? You broke my rule.
• 2:09
  Speaker B: But maybe it's white people shit.
• 2:11
  Speaker A: But maybe. Right? Maybe. This is perfect. This is perfect. And this is what I want to talk about. So I was lazy, and I didn't want to write up a whole podcast this week.
• 2:19
  Speaker B: That's a good one.
• 2:19
  Speaker A: I like the topic. So here's what we're going to do. Literally, I have, like, five minutes of history on this shit. And then we are going to, like, I'm gonna give you examples, and you and I are either gonna agree or gonna fight. And we're literally just gonna go through.
• 2:30
  Speaker B: I love it.
• 2:30
  Speaker A: Like, the social ones, like the money ones, like, all different ones. Okay. That's. That's basically what's happening. So welcome back to Sort of Sophisticated, the podcast where culture, chaos, and curiosity collide. I don't even know if I said that. Is it culture, chaos, and curiosity? I think it's culture, curiosity, and chaos. I think I just screwed that whole thing up. Anyway, I'm Pete, and sitting across from me, as always, is Amanda. Hello, Amanda.
• 2:51
  Speaker B: Hello. Hello.
• 2:52
  Speaker A: How are you?
• 2:53
  Speaker B: Good, how are you?
• 2:53
  Speaker A: Besides being late? Fashionably late. I mean, more than fashionably late, being terribly late. Okay. Since we're late and since we have things to do and I have to get on with my day, word of the week. Are you ready?
• 3:04
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 3:05
  Speaker A: Okay. Cavalcade.
• 3:07
  Speaker B: Cavalcade. I feel like I've heard this before.
• 3:09
  Speaker A: Cavalcade. You have? So then tell me what it is.
• 3:11
  Speaker B: Something to do. Oh, it was at the medieval party at my girl's school. Okay, now what is it?
• 3:17
  Speaker A: Cavalcade.
• 3:17
  Speaker B: Something about the knights?
• 3:19
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 3:19
  Speaker B: Am I kind of close?
• 3:20
  Speaker A: Yes, actually. Yes. It's a noun. It originally meant a formal procession of horse riders, like a big ceremonial march. It comes from kings and knights parading through the streets. In medieval times, classical education.
• 3:33
  Speaker B: That's all I got. That's perfect.
• 3:34
  Speaker A: I love that. Yeah. Yeah. But now it's like. Now it's not just for that. Now it's for everything. It's not just for horses. Like, literally, you could do, like, you could use it for a cavalcade of people, like, in a parade. Or you could do it like.
• 3:45
  Speaker B: So, like, Mexico had a cavalcade when they beat whoever they beat.
• 3:48
  Speaker A: Like, World cup, they had crazy. Yeah. They were going nuts for cavalcading everywhere. Yes, yes, exactly. Okay, so it comes from Italian. We don't usually. Shit doesn't come from Italian. Yeah, cavalcada. Cavalcada, to ride on horseback.
• 4:00
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 4:01
  Speaker A: So, like, it's got an energy, Like a sophisticated energy. It's a Good word.
• 4:05
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 4:05
  Speaker A: Cavalcade.
• 4:05
  Speaker B: Cavalcade.
• 4:06
  Speaker A: All right.
• 4:06
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 4:07
  Speaker A: All right. If you like what you're listening to, hit subscribe. Follow us. New episodes come out weekly on your favorite podcast platform. All right, so little history, and then we just debate. That's what we're doing. Okay, so sociologists call this stuff. Sorry, I called it unwritten and non negotiable, like the rules that we all follow. But sociologists call them social norms. That's like their, you know, sophisticated word for it. But the weird part, like we said, is nobody ever wrote them down. Like, they just sort of emerged, like, out of the ether, I guess. Right. So through repetition, maybe through, like, expectation. Right, Maybe. What's the word I'm looking for? Through imitation. Right. Okay. So, like, somebody does something, it works great. Somebody does something bad, it doesn't work. We don't want to do that again. That's sort of how it all works. Okay. And each society, believe it or not, has their own version of this. It's not like America has an America.
• 4:53
  Speaker B: It can be, like a cultural thing.
• 4:54
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 4:54
  Speaker B: Because think back to, like, again, World cup stuff, because we're just living in it. That Japan cleans up the stadium after.
• 5:01
  Speaker A: Yes. And if you don't, you get judged. This is perfect. Right. But we don't get it.
• 5:06
  Speaker B: But then there's a bunch of people on the other side who are judging them for cleaning it up.
• 5:09
  Speaker A: And we're just. Right. We're throwing our beers all over the place. Yeah. I like Japan's culture, but anyway, we're only gonna do America, so don't get all. Don't do your all Asian ness on me. I can't deal with that.
• 5:17
  Speaker B: But I might. It might be because I think this is also the conundrum of America.
• 5:21
  Speaker A: Yes. Because we bring them all together. It's a melting pot. I totally get where you're going with this. Okay. Got it. You get the whole idea. And, like, some of these rules go. Some are new, but some go super far back. Like, we're still living in the caveman times with these rules, so I didn't realize they sort of stack on top of each other. I have some more science stuff. I want to, like, get into the fun part of this whole thing. And then I have some science stuff at the end.
• 5:40
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 5:40
  Speaker A: And then we'll be done.
• 5:41
  Speaker B: Okay. Okay, Sounds good.
• 5:43
  Speaker A: All right, so the rules. Here we go.
• 5:45
  Speaker B: All the rules that I probably break.
• 5:46
  Speaker A: Go ahead. This is good. Okay. So I have it, like. I have it, like, broken down into social money, friends, travel, Technology, everyday etiquette. Okay, we're just gonna go. All right.
• 5:57
  Speaker B: Social first.
• 5:57
  Speaker A: There's no wrong answers here. Let's see how this goes. Okay. How long should you stay at a party? You get invited to a party. How long are you supposed to stay? What's the. What's the expectation?
• 6:06
  Speaker B: Oh, well, is it a birthday party?
• 6:09
  Speaker A: I'm not even gonna define it, but
• 6:10
  Speaker B: if it was a birthday party, you stay until you sing Happy Birthday.
• 6:13
  Speaker A: Okay. I like.
• 6:14
  Speaker B: Oh, I like where you're going. It's appropriate to leave.
• 6:16
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 6:16
  Speaker B: If it's a social party, I mean, usually you go, let's just do social party.
• 6:19
  Speaker A: Let's just do social party.
• 6:20
  Speaker B: Right?
• 6:21
  Speaker A: So, like, yeah, I get the idea of celebrating something, but let me say there is not gonna be a celebration. Like graduation party we just had. I did. Like, I wasn't gonna bring out a cake. I wasn't gonna do anything. How long do you have to stay? Minimum. That's all I care about.
• 6:34
  Speaker B: Minimum.
• 6:34
  Speaker A: Minimum.
• 6:35
  Speaker B: I think enough to have a beverage and if there's food, eat food.
• 6:40
  Speaker A: Oh, my God, you are so good at this. I would just say an hour. Like, my brain just goes to, like, a time. No, but that's awesome. I like the way you're thinking about it.
• 6:47
  Speaker B: What happens if, within the hour, it's not right? I don't know.
• 6:51
  Speaker A: I'm agreeing with you. I've just changed my opinion. That's it. It's a drink and food.
• 6:57
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 6:58
  Speaker A: And then you're safe to go. Okay. Okay. Can you leave without saying goodbye? The Irish goodbye? Is that rude or is that, like, where are you at with that whole thing?
• 7:07
  Speaker B: I think if you leave too early, it's better to sneak out, to not draw attention to it.
• 7:12
  Speaker A: You are, by the way, folks, Anybody listening at home playing along? Amanda is a total Irish goodbye. Yeah. Yeah. And she's not even Irish, but she does it all the time.
• 7:20
  Speaker B: And so. Yeah, but if you're leaving, if you leave early, if you're leaving earlier than probably expected, I think it's okay to kind of sneak out. Cause if not, then you're drawing attention to. Okay, hi, bye. Like, leaving now. But if it's like that, everyone's kind of saying bye. It's kind of the flow.
• 7:35
  Speaker A: But, like, I could go either way because on the one hand, I think it's respectful to say goodbye to the hosts. But on the other hand, saying goodbye does make it a little bit about me.
• 7:44
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 7:44
  Speaker A: Like, oh, like, I'm saying goodbye. Like, look at me. Like, whereas the party wasn't for me. I was a guest at the party. I could literally. I've done both.
• 7:51
  Speaker B: I think it's important to say hi once you get to the party.
• 7:54
  Speaker A: Yes. Recognize the host. Yes.
• 7:56
  Speaker B: But I think if you're leaving earlier than expected, it's okay to sneak out, to not disrupt.
• 8:01
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 8:01
  Speaker B: So you.
• 8:01
  Speaker A: In no cases do you think it's rude to not say goodbye. You just. It's not rude. You just. You're just adjusting, depending. Okay, got it, got it.
• 8:09
  Speaker B: Well, because I'm assuming. Let me take a step back. Yeah, I guess if it's like a party of 10. Yes. You should say.
• 8:14
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Size. Okay, give me size. I like that. Give me the size.
• 8:17
  Speaker B: I think 10 or more you can.
• 8:19
  Speaker A: Iris could buy it, probably. Nah, maybe not 20 or more. I'd say 20 or more. Yeah. Yeah.
• 8:23
  Speaker B: Because anything under that is, like, very obvious that someone's missing. It's like murder mystery. Then who just died.
• 8:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, in your case, it's very obvious whenever you leave because you are the life of all the parties.
• 8:35
  Speaker B: But that's not true.
• 8:36
  Speaker A: Yes, it is. Oh, my God. Amanda, shut up. Whatever. Okay. When do you stop saying happy birthday to somebody if you forget their birthday? So their birthday comes and goes. It's been a day or it's been a week or it's been a month. Like, when do you, like, oh, my God, I forgot. Forget it.
• 8:52
  Speaker B: I will always say happy birthday.
• 8:53
  Speaker A: If you missed my birthday by one month. We haven't talked. Next time you saw me and remember, you'd be, oh, my God. Happy birthday. I forgot.
• 8:59
  Speaker B: Yes. And I probably would also have a
• 9:00
  Speaker A: gift a month later. Yeah, two months later, probably. Well, I guess two months later wouldn't matter because you're not hanging out with me.
• 9:05
  Speaker B: I guess it depends. Level of friendship, Right.
• 9:08
  Speaker A: In which circle.
• 9:08
  Speaker B: Right?
• 9:09
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 9:09
  Speaker B: But if I had forgot somebody who I would normally get a gift for, let's put on. We're on the level of gift buying or, like, maybe a card or whatever. Right.
• 9:17
  Speaker A: Inner circle. You never. There's never a. Stop saying it. If you screwed up, you screwed up, and you have to admit it. Outer circle, you wouldn't even bother. Okay, so this has nothing to do with time. This has to do with circles of
• 9:28
  Speaker B: your onion, your layers.
• 9:30
  Speaker A: I like where you're going with this. Okay.
• 9:32
  Speaker B: Why would you not?
• 9:33
  Speaker A: No, no. You are a lot more prepared for this episode than I thought. Like, I have very. I'm very black and white in these cases. Like, I'm thinking in terms of time. Like, in all of these Cases because I'm constrained by time and you are way more. What is it? Right brained maybe. So you think in this other region that's way better, honestly, than on how you're thinking about each of these things. So I'm having a moment with like, how well you're navigating all these and we're like three deep, dude. So job well done. Okay, here's a good one. Should you tell someone they have food in their teeth?
• 10:08
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 10:09
  Speaker A: In all cases? Yes.
• 10:10
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 10:10
  Speaker A: Really? Yeah.
• 10:11
  Speaker B: I didn't think so. Did you tell somebody their fly was down?
• 10:14
  Speaker A: I would absolutely fix anything on anybody. At the risk of being an asshole? Yes. I'd be like, dude, zip up your zipper. You have a booger in your nose. Like, shit.
• 10:21
  Speaker B: People get so embarrassed and people call it out, you're saving their life, but
• 10:26
  Speaker A: you just saved their life.
• 10:27
  Speaker B: Would you rather walk around with that ish or would you rather somebody tell you.
• 10:30
  Speaker A: This is my whole point. How many people do you think really do this, though? I think you and I are very rare.
• 10:34
  Speaker B: I think people don't because I'll go to like the bathroom and I'll look at me like, nobody told me I had spinach in my teeth.
• 10:38
  Speaker A: I agree.
• 10:39
  Speaker B: After a salad, I'm like, thanks, assholes.
• 10:40
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think you and I are a very small minority of people that every kid.
• 10:46
  Speaker B: I don't get embarrassed by it. I'm like, oh, cool.
• 10:48
  Speaker A: I would tell a stranger, like if I was like, if I was at work, I mean, they're not strangers. But if I was at work and barely. I was like, walked by somebody be like, oh, you got some stuff in your teeth. Like, clean that up.
• 10:56
  Speaker B: I mean, we were at Disney and somebody came out of the bathroom and she had toilet paper on her shoe. I'm like, oh, hey, that's awesome. I was like, there's. You just have a little something. And she's like, oh my gosh. And she flipped out and like, totally fine.
• 11:05
  Speaker A: She had poo on her shoe.
• 11:06
  Speaker B: No, just toilet paper.
• 11:07
  Speaker A: Well, I mean, that might have been
• 11:08
  Speaker B: poo, but anyway, so I was like, it's fine, you know, it happens to the best of us or something. And she's like, oh, you're so embarrassing.
• 11:14
  Speaker A: And I was like, oh, yeah, by the way, I also just saved your life, lady.
• 11:17
  Speaker B: But I think people just like are so conscientious of.
• 11:20
  Speaker A: Which is so dumb because nobody what they portray.
• 11:22
  Speaker B: But no one's perfect. So it's.
• 11:23
  Speaker A: And by the way, nobody's looking as far. It's not that Deep at all. Okay, last social one. Okay. You ready?
• 11:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 11:29
  Speaker A: Okay. How many times do you invite someone over before you stop trying? Like, they're not.
• 11:35
  Speaker B: I have a three strike rule. Three strikes and you're off the island. You do it three times, you're voted off the island.
• 11:40
  Speaker A: Am I still on the island?
• 11:41
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 11:42
  Speaker A: Okay. No.
• 11:44
  Speaker B: And, like, you can always, like, get it a race and start over.
• 11:46
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 11:46
  Speaker B: But if it's like three back to back things that you kind of blow a tire you flake out on or whatever, I'm just not inclined to invite you around as much.
• 11:53
  Speaker A: Okay, but if I say yes and legitimately have an excuse.
• 11:56
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that doesn't.
• 11:57
  Speaker A: So you are. You're sensing my excuse. Like, if I say no three times, you're out. I get it. But if I say yes and then I'm like, oh, my God, you know, my daughter's having a problem. I need to say. You're like, you know what? I'm. Buy what he's selling. Okay. And I get three trouble. Okay. All right, all right, all right.
• 12:15
  Speaker B: So four balls, three strikes. There you go.
• 12:16
  Speaker A: I like that. See what I mean? Like, you have. This is good. Okay. Money. Can we go to money?
• 12:21
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 12:22
  Speaker A: Oh, gosh. I'm a freak about money.
• 12:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, you are.
• 12:24
  Speaker A: Okay, I know who pays when you invite someone to lunch. If I say, hey, I want to
• 12:30
  Speaker B: take you to lunch, I want to take you to lunch. Take would mean that you would pay.
• 12:35
  Speaker A: Okay. The verb take means pay.
• 12:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 12:38
  Speaker A: What if I say, hey, let's go to lunch.
• 12:40
  Speaker B: 50. 50.
• 12:41
  Speaker A: Hey, I haven't seen you in a while. Let's get lunch. 50. 50.
• 12:44
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 12:45
  Speaker A: So the verb take matters in the English language.
• 12:49
  Speaker B: Okay, I know we talked about this recently.
• 12:50
  Speaker A: I got to be careful.
• 12:51
  Speaker B: Like, somebody invited you to something and
• 12:53
  Speaker A: then you were like, yeah, like a Dodger game. They're like, hey, you want to go to the Dodger game? And I'm like, I don't know, do I?
• 12:59
  Speaker B: Do I do. I want to go.
• 13:00
  Speaker A: But I'm a mess because I'm like a dick. I just flat out ask. I'm like, who's paying for what? I'm so in. People's faces, they really struggle with that. Okay, I'm going to work on that.
• 13:09
  Speaker B: All right.
• 13:09
  Speaker A: Okay. Interesting. About lunch, it's same thing for dinner, obviously. Dinner, lunch. Same, same, same. It's okay. Take is over. Okay. Splitting the bill. Like, how do we decide? We talked about this with tipping a little bit. I think splitting the bill, we go to lunch. Fine. We both. Whatever. Dinner you order the market price. Lobster and a bottle of wine. I ordered, you know, chicken. Are we splitting the bill? Because we just, like, we're friends.
• 13:37
  Speaker B: I think it depends what level of friends you are.
• 13:40
  Speaker A: How do you decide that in the moment, you're just staring across the table?
• 13:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think. Well, if it's. If you have concern over how much that you're paying because somebody ordered something more than you, I think it is fair for you to be like, oh, either, you know, oh, if you want to pay for it, I'll Venmo you for my portion, or, oh, so speak up. I'll pay for it, and I'll just. I'll tell you how much you. You know, how much to Venmo. But in that moment, if there. That other person's like, oh, no, we'll just put 50, 50. And you'd be like, that's in your choice. Right.
• 14:07
  Speaker A: Okay, so hold on. Wait. So are you saying that. Be aware enough to bring it up before you get to the end?
• 14:14
  Speaker B: Yeah. You need to give yourself an out. If you don't give an out. Okay.
• 14:15
  Speaker A: If you don't give yourself an out,
• 14:16
  Speaker B: you're screwed in the end. Like, when the bill comes.
• 14:19
  Speaker A: When the bill comes, you have to speak up.
• 14:20
  Speaker B: You can just say, oh, you could just wait, play dumb and let them pay for, like, okay, I'll Venmo you. You know, whatever my portion was, which then. Now you're giving them control. So they may just do 50, 50. And you have to live with that.
• 14:30
  Speaker A: Right.
• 14:30
  Speaker B: Or you say, oh, I'll cover it, and I'll, you know, if I'm gonna request you resell you, or I'm a loser.
• 14:35
  Speaker A: You know what I do? I split 50, 50, or most of the time, I end up just paying.
• 14:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know.
• 14:40
  Speaker A: Because I don't want the uncomfortable. It's not even the uncomfortable interaction. It's. It's not worth it to me.
• 14:46
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 14:47
  Speaker A: In all cases, I pay.
• 14:48
  Speaker B: You know, at some point in time, we have. Are all adults.
• 14:51
  Speaker A: I know. No, I understand.
• 14:54
  Speaker B: But people are takers, so there are a lot of people who just do it.
• 14:57
  Speaker A: It's happened a lot more with me after Gabby died. So before, it was like soup. We'd go out with couples. It was easy, you know, split. Now I'm noticing, like, I go out with friends, and, you know, I'm together with whatever, three other couples, so seven of us. And, like, it's like, oh, let's just split. I'm like, what do we mean?
• 15:15
  Speaker B: Do what you should do?
• 15:16
  Speaker A: What's Happening. I'm one person.
• 15:17
  Speaker B: Order a meal to go. So then you have food for tomorrow because you're already paying for it.
• 15:20
  Speaker A: That's probably a good idea. Shit, I didn't even think about it.
• 15:23
  Speaker B: That's horrible.
• 15:24
  Speaker A: This is excellent. Okay.
• 15:25
  Speaker B: I don't know.
• 15:27
  Speaker A: Do you tell friends how much money you make?
• 15:29
  Speaker B: Mmm.
• 15:31
  Speaker A: I'm Gen X, dude.
• 15:33
  Speaker B: I do not. I don't think you brought up well, but again, this is hard. This is not a fair question. Because of what we do professionally, so.
• 15:40
  Speaker A: Well. Cause you're saying no, then.
• 15:42
  Speaker B: No. Cause friends tell us what they make
• 15:44
  Speaker A: all the time, but you don't tell. No, I'm opposite way. Do you tell your friends? You have to know what your. What your clients make. If they're your friends, they're your friends. Yeah, right. I don't know how much money you make. I don't. I'm not asking. I don't want to know. Like. But you get my point.
• 15:59
  Speaker B: That's fair.
• 15:59
  Speaker A: So I think you hold it tighter
• 16:01
  Speaker B: than I was thinking about more people. Like, other people. I don't think they actually tell other people what they make.
• 16:06
  Speaker A: I would like Gen X. I think it's a generation.
• 16:09
  Speaker B: Like, as a millennial, I don't think we talk about it as much either.
• 16:13
  Speaker A: I think Gen Z does a lot. I think they're doing a lot of comparing and contract, and they're young, so it's probably still pretty safe. Right?
• 16:22
  Speaker B: About the same level.
• 16:23
  Speaker A: Right. And so they're like, hey, wait, what. What's happening over there at that company? Wait, I can get in on that. Like, and then I think as you age. Yeah, I. I steer clear. Oh, my God. Money and. And friends and family just don't make sense. Yeah, but that's also.
• 16:35
  Speaker B: I mean. Yeah, it gets complicated. Money complicated quickly.
• 16:39
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so I'm saying no way. I would even tell my kids. Like, I don't care if they're Gen Z. I'd be like, do not.
• 16:44
  Speaker B: I do remember I asked Luke that one time.
• 16:46
  Speaker A: Like, don't talk about it.
• 16:46
  Speaker B: Like, why are you talking about that? I was like, oh, sorry. I was just.
• 16:48
  Speaker A: Right.
• 16:49
  Speaker B: But he was asking a strategic question.
• 16:51
  Speaker A: I know he was. I know, I know, I know. But there's also ways around it. Right? You know, he could just say, oh, I make under 100k.
• 16:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:57
  Speaker A: Right. Oh, I make over 100k. Like, that gives you an idea. What's ballpark? Yeah.
• 17:00
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 17:00
  Speaker A: Okay. Okay. So along the same lines, is it rude to ask how much something cost? And I don't mean, like, oh, how much was that sweater? I mean, like, your home or your car? Like. Like big ticket items. Is it rude? Like, if you and I are talking.
• 17:14
  Speaker B: So I think the answer would be yes, but to me, it's not okay. But it's also because I'd like to get a good deal.
• 17:21
  Speaker A: Oh, no, totally. You're always looking for a deal.
• 17:22
  Speaker B: You know what I mean? I mean, like, with Trent's car, if anyone wants to ask him, like, yes, it is this much, but we got it for this much because we're talking down. So I don't know. I think each person's different. But I would. I go with. The answer would be yes. It's rude.
• 17:37
  Speaker A: Yeah, but if. But, like, if I was looking at buying an Audi, I would probably want to know your deal and where you got it, because I'm interested specifically in what you're doing. But if I was looking at just buying a car, like, no, I'm not just gonna ask you what it costs just because I need to know what it costs. Or if you were moving into my neighborhood and you were like, dude, like, I'm trying to get into this neighborhood. Like, talk to me, Pete.
• 17:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, right.
• 18:00
  Speaker A: And I'll be like, okay, I bought it for this. Its value is that I probably wouldn't have as much of an issue if I knew you were serious about what you were about to embark on. But if you were just. But if you were just being like, what is it? Like a Budinsky. Yeah, right. That's. That was my nickname, thank you very much.
• 18:16
  Speaker B: Growing up.
• 18:17
  Speaker A: Yeah. Peter Budinski came out anyway. Okay, that's my deal. Okay, that's money. Any more on money? Got any other good ideas? On me?
• 18:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think money's tricky. Money is a tricky.
• 18:24
  Speaker A: Money's very tricky. I try to steer clear. I try to steer clear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Friends. You ready?
• 18:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 18:29
  Speaker A: Friends a little bit different than social. This one's specific to friends. Okay, getting a little personal. I have a lot of friends that come over. A lot of women, specifically, they always want to bring something. So they bring their food, they put it on a plate, they bring it to my house, they forget said plate. Now the plate's at my house. I have to return the plate to them. Am I supposed to return the plate with food on it? What's the drive?
• 18:55
  Speaker B: Wasn't that, like the old school way of whenever something's brought to you, never return it Empty?
• 18:59
  Speaker A: Yes. I'm a widower.
• 19:02
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:02
  Speaker A: I don't help a brother out.
• 19:04
  Speaker B: I hate other People's plates being left at my house because it's an additional action of now having to return it.
• 19:12
  Speaker A: Yes, I understand. Now, this is why kids come in handy.
• 19:14
  Speaker B: Because I say, hey, so that is,
• 19:18
  Speaker A: you're a few years away.
• 19:19
  Speaker B: I guess I ask, is it rude for somebody to leave a dish or dishware to get.
• 19:25
  Speaker A: They probably had a drink or two. You haven't washed it. And I. And I do a good job at this. Like, I try to wash it and put it back. I'm just asking.
• 19:32
  Speaker B: No, I feel like.
• 19:33
  Speaker A: No, not rude. You can return it empty.
• 19:34
  Speaker B: I think so.
• 19:35
  Speaker A: If they left it, you can return it empty.
• 19:37
  Speaker B: It was the dish to participate in a social activity.
• 19:39
  Speaker A: Duh.
• 19:40
  Speaker B: Okay. So that. I think you return empty. If somebody baked cookies and brought me specifically.
• 19:47
  Speaker A: I see. Okay. I like where you're going.
• 19:49
  Speaker B: I would return the container with a little something. I don't think it's. I don't think you're obligated to. I think it's just a nice.
• 19:55
  Speaker A: A nice thing to do. Okay. Can you cancel plans with friends just because you're tired? Lately, I've been noticing. I've been doing that a little bit. I make plans. I say yes. Cause I'm a yes guy all the time. And, like, it gets to that night, and all of a sudden I'm like, yeah. So of course I understand. I can make up an excuse. I get it. I could do the little fib, the level three lie or whatever. But could I literally just say, hey, I'm tired, and be authentic? I'm not gonna make it. Or is that, like one of the strikes on your. Three times you get invited, and then you're sort of out of my circle.
• 20:24
  Speaker B: I think I'd rather people be honest than lie about it.
• 20:28
  Speaker A: So. Okay. Okay to cancel if you're tired, be honest. You would not be offended.
• 20:32
  Speaker B: But, I mean. But now here's. Here's where I think. Where it, like, comes into play. Are you tired because you decided to go do something else?
• 20:38
  Speaker A: No. No. I'm just saying. No.
• 20:40
  Speaker B: I mean.
• 20:40
  Speaker A: No. Come on, man. I'm emotionally drained. What are you talking? Like, I'm just tired.
• 20:44
  Speaker B: Yeah. If it becomes a pattern.
• 20:46
  Speaker A: That's what I'm getting at. Right, Right. So I have to keep in mind if I do that, who I do it to and how often.
• 20:51
  Speaker B: I mean, I guess. But also, there is grace, right?
• 20:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, you give. You give more grace.
• 20:57
  Speaker B: I think people are going through, I mean, seasons in life.
• 21:00
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:00
  Speaker B: It's gonna happen, but maybe it's not so much that you have to go show up. Maybe it's that person just show up at your doorstep with, like, whatever it is, and just like, hey, I know you're tired. You want to sit on the couch and watch tv?
• 21:08
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 21:09
  Speaker B: They have to meet you sometimes.
• 21:11
  Speaker A: That would be so cool if somebody did that. Nobody does that anymore. I like that. Okay. Do you have to attend every wedding that you're invited to? I've been invited to a ton of weddings lately. A lot out of state. Right. Cause a lot of my friends, kids, now, are getting married. And I love that I'm invited, but it's like, do I have to say yes to all of them? Meaning, of course I'd want to go. But if it was in Europe, Linda, I'd go in two seconds.
• 21:37
  Speaker B: Yeah, I guess it's.
• 21:38
  Speaker A: But I gotta fly to New York.
• 21:40
  Speaker B: How close are you to them?
• 21:41
  Speaker A: Because this is the circle again.
• 21:43
  Speaker B: Yeah. Because I feel like, as a kid.
• 21:46
  Speaker A: How do you decide how close you are? Like, if I. Like, if something was happening to me, like, medically, would I tell them? Is that how I decide?
• 21:52
  Speaker B: Like, yeah, that's a good. That's a good barometer. Probably.
• 21:54
  Speaker A: Fuck. Then I gotta go. Okay.
• 21:56
  Speaker B: Well, because.
• 21:59
  Speaker A: Shit.
• 21:59
  Speaker B: I mean, I just think about our wedding. Right. But I think our parents invited so many of their friends that we didn't know or have relationships with.
• 22:08
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:08
  Speaker B: And now looking back, I was like, why were they there?
• 22:10
  Speaker A: Right.
• 22:10
  Speaker B: I've never talked to them again since. At night.
• 22:13
  Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. I look back at my wedding, I laugh at who's there.
• 22:15
  Speaker B: Yeah. And so I think part of it is as being a parent, I'm gonna tell my children, you invite who you want. You want Uncle Pete there. You want any of our friends, great. But if not, if you're not close enough to them, they don't need to be there.
• 22:30
  Speaker A: Okay. So if one of my inner circle people invite me, I gotta go.
• 22:35
  Speaker B: As long as you're close with the kids. Yeah.
• 22:37
  Speaker A: Okay. Got it. Okay. Should friends always tell you the truth? Hard truth?
• 22:42
  Speaker B: Well, if they don't, who else is going to tell you?
• 22:45
  Speaker A: Wait, wow, really? So would you tell me if I'm fat?
• 22:48
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:48
  Speaker A: Like, you would just blurt it out, like, hey, looking a little chunk there, Pete.
• 22:51
  Speaker B: I mean, the only point I'd ever tell that to somebody is if, like,
• 22:54
  Speaker A: if you were getting concerned for their health.
• 22:55
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 22:56
  Speaker A: Huh. So if I was. Okay, how about this? We've talked about this, actually, oddly enough. And here it goes. If I started dating and you were
• 23:05
  Speaker B: worried for me, if I was worried for you.
• 23:07
  Speaker A: Yes, you would be like, dude, I need to sit you down.
• 23:10
  Speaker B: Let me clarify this because we have.
• 23:12
  Speaker A: This is gonna get good. This is what you pay for, people. Right here. She's on the couch. Let's go.
• 23:18
  Speaker B: So you very, like, very unique situation. I'm stuttering all over the place. Very unique situation because we have talked about it. Nobody will replace Gabby.
• 23:32
  Speaker A: Of course.
• 23:32
  Speaker B: Right. And so I'm not trying to find someone who replaces unfair right to have, as you pointed out, that thought towards whoever the significant person is incredibly unfair. So I think the viewpoint that I would have, I hope to have is that this isn't a replacement of Gabby. This is just your new life person in this season.
• 23:51
  Speaker A: But you're figuring that out. You're deciding that for me, question mark.
• 23:56
  Speaker B: No, no, no. So if that's your new person, I have to look at them as just this new person. Right. There's no expectation as we're talking about all these un. Spoken expectations. Right. Cause I think that's where it gets murky with comparing to Gabby. Right. But if there were red flags, she seemed like she was going after you for your money. She.
• 24:15
  Speaker A: How would you know that? That's what I'm getting at. I like where you're going with this.
• 24:17
  Speaker B: I mean, you would know, like, I feel like when you meet somebody, wouldn't
• 24:20
  Speaker A: you hope I would know.
• 24:22
  Speaker B: I mean, you would hope, but maybe it's been nice. Somebody.
• 24:27
  Speaker A: But didn't you pick me as a friend because you appreciated my authenticity? My ability to see through shit are similarities in the way we think about certain things. So. Meaning you appreciate my judgment generally. Otherwise, like, how do you decide on what's.
• 24:44
  Speaker B: But sometimes people's judgments are a little clouded.
• 24:47
  Speaker A: Oh.
• 24:48
  Speaker B: When they are emotionally tired or their cup is getting, like, filled again in a way that is needed. And sometimes they're just a little blinded.
• 25:00
  Speaker A: Wow. Okay. That's fine. Hard truth.
• 25:03
  Speaker B: Which head are you thinking with?
• 25:04
  Speaker A: Oh, my God, I hate you. I'm always thinking with my brain. Okay.
• 25:08
  Speaker B: I don't know if our viewers would say that.
• 25:10
  Speaker A: Yes. No, most of the time. I have a cavalcade of thoughts going on right now.
• 25:15
  Speaker B: Well played. Well played.
• 25:17
  Speaker A: Okay, so if you see red flags, you would tell me the truth or like, you would. Like, that's your opening to make sure that you're being truthful with me. Okay, Got it. Right.
• 25:26
  Speaker B: Like, hey, but on other things, you
• 25:28
  Speaker A: would always tell me the truth.
• 25:28
  Speaker B: Maybe like. Yeah. And telling you the truth, I would check in with you first to be like, hey, this happened. This was kind of sad. What do you feel about it? And if you're like, you know, I'd
• 25:39
  Speaker A: have to give you enough of it. Right?
• 25:40
  Speaker B: Okay, then. Okay, then. You're making that choice, but that's it. But also, you are an independent person, so whatever choice you make is the choice you make.
• 25:47
  Speaker A: Right. But the whole question was, do you tell people the hard truth? The answer is yes. If they're in your circle, you're gonna go at it with them because they matter to you.
• 25:54
  Speaker B: If it's somebody else, go live your best life. I think it's a bad choice, but we all make choices with consequences. It's fine.
• 26:00
  Speaker A: I love this. Okay. Oh, my God. That was good. Okay, travel. I'm switching to travel. Are you ready?
• 26:04
  Speaker B: Oh, okay. Are you gonna ask if I eat stinky food on an airplane?
• 26:07
  Speaker A: I don't know. That's a great one. Do you eat stinky food on an airplane?
• 26:09
  Speaker B: I did the faux pas once, and it was so cringy. Awkward. I will never do it again.
• 26:15
  Speaker A: No, I can't.
• 26:15
  Speaker B: A lot of people don't know. I didn't know. Well, it's not fair. We were running through the airport. There's only one spot that was open, but it was Indian food.
• 26:23
  Speaker A: I can't believe you did it. I can't believe you didn't get kicked off the plane.
• 26:25
  Speaker B: Oh, no. We were trying to eat and, like, close it.
• 26:27
  Speaker A: All right, here we go. Ready? Airplane armrests. So if you're on the aisle, I say you get one.
• 26:32
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 26:32
  Speaker A: If you're on the window, I say you get one. If you're in the middle, I say you get both armrests. What do you say?
• 26:38
  Speaker B: Huh?
• 26:39
  Speaker A: By default, you have to. You have to let the person in the middle. They have nothing else. Did you ever think about this?
• 26:44
  Speaker B: It's a good thought. No, because I don't use the armrest when I have to sit next to strangers because I don't want to touch them.
• 26:48
  Speaker A: So you lean. That's my point. You lean one way or the other.
• 26:51
  Speaker B: Fair.
• 26:51
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 26:52
  Speaker A: And so by default, they get it.
• 26:53
  Speaker B: No, I'm saying if I'm in the middle, though. Oh, I don't touch the armrest.
• 26:57
  Speaker A: Okay. You're kind of petite, though, like.
• 26:58
  Speaker B: Cause I'm just, like, too close.
• 27:00
  Speaker A: All right, I'm going with middle seat gets both armrests. I like this.
• 27:03
  Speaker B: I like. I can't wore with that.
• 27:04
  Speaker A: Is it okay to recline the seat on all flights no matter what? Just, like, go back. Who cares? Give me the recline seating situation.
• 27:12
  Speaker B: I mean, I hate it.
• 27:13
  Speaker A: I hate it too.
• 27:14
  Speaker B: When people are reclined in my space.
• 27:16
  Speaker A: I mean, they are.
• 27:17
  Speaker B: And when they are the whole time. Because then I feel like I need to recline and then I'm impeding on someone else's space. Okay. So I feel like if it's long enough for you to take a nap, it's okay to recline if you're gonna do it. But if you're gonna recline just to watch a show, sit up.
• 27:29
  Speaker A: This is so funny. Cause it comes down. This is me with my stupid hours thing. If the flight's like an hour and a half or less, I don't recline. And I don't. And honestly, I'll get pissed if someone does recline. I don't know why I have this rule in my head. But if it's longer than that, it's like, okay, then they're loud. Like, I don't like it, but they're totally allowed to. Like, I can't be. I can't. Bitch. Yeah, I have. I have a. I have a number in my head. That's 90 minutes. Okay. The famous travel question. Swapping seats on an airplane. Family wants to sit together. They didn't buy the right tickets. They're all separated. Oh, can you switch with me? Oh, my God. Blah, blah, blah. Hard and fast rule. Dude, I'm absolutely. I do not switch with anyone anymore. Ever.
• 28:01
  Speaker B: I mean, technically, I think it's like a law. You're not supposed to.
• 28:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. So like, so I'm so old. Like a long time ago you bought a ticket. They were all the same. Not the same price. But mostly nowadays, nowadays you are buying your seat and it costs a certain amount of money and it's a lot of money to get a window or an aisle versus this or move up or move back and whatever it is. So like you're strategically buying an airplane seat.
• 28:23
  Speaker B: So in fairness, because I do buy the lowest when I travel with the children. Of course you do, but because they are cheap.
• 28:31
  Speaker A: Because you're very thrifty, but. Thrifty.
• 28:33
  Speaker B: But the children are like. Because they are under an age, they're supposed to be sat with you and multiple times. The airline messed up and didn't do that.
• 28:43
  Speaker A: Your children would be just fine sitting anywhere on an airplane. They are so sociable. They're so easy to talk to. They would probably have fun.
• 28:49
  Speaker B: I grew up, my 7 year old might just cry that she's sitting in between two strange men for three to five hours. But it's fine.
• 28:55
  Speaker A: My mom was a travel agent. I grew up flying American Airlines non rev all the time. Like literally flew around the world. It was the best ever. But we got stuck in middle seats. We were the last people to get on any plane, like all the time. And I was, dude, me and my little sister, I'll never forget this. Like she was probably seven years old, I was probably nine years old. We packed Skittles or Starbursts and we had a deck of cards that was like our go to. And we would just sit in between whoever was there. We'd pull out the cards, start playing solitaire, and then people would be, oh, what are you doing? Da da. We'd just start chatting with them and then we'd end up playing gin rummy or poker. My dad taught us all the games and we would use the Starburst or the Skittles to bet and these businessmen. Cause sometimes we were in first class. A lot of times we were in first class or business class because it was crazy. Like you just got the seat that you got. You know what I mean? It was bonkers. And we got so used to it. It was like we felt like. What was it like? Not hobos, but what's it.
• 29:49
  Speaker B: Is it weird though that I feel like back then it wasn't so it's how we lived? No, but it was. Yeah. It wasn't weird for kids to be on their own. But now you think about my kids, like my seven year old sitting in between two men on an airplane. That weirds me out a little. I don't know.
• 30:04
  Speaker A: My little sister did it all the time and she was awesome.
• 30:06
  Speaker B: And so bottom line, maybe that explains
• 30:10
  Speaker A: a lot about me. Listen. Okay, so answer the question. Because you didn't technically answer the question. Do you move for someone? I'm flat out telling you I do not move for anyone anymore. I don't.
• 30:17
  Speaker B: I don't think I would move. No, I would. If it's a mom and kid and they're separated and I was by myself, I'd probably move. But I would clear it.
• 30:25
  Speaker A: If you had an island, you had to move to a center, like a middle.
• 30:28
  Speaker B: But why would that happen? Doesn't make any sense.
• 30:31
  Speaker A: It depends on where the kid is. Like, I don't know. Like what if the moms. I don't know where they are on the plane.
• 30:36
  Speaker B: I mean, maybe, but I would clear it first with the airlines because I think it is a law.
• 30:41
  Speaker A: Oh my God, you're way nicer than I am. I'm not moving.
• 30:43
  Speaker B: I Have little kids.
• 30:44
  Speaker A: I'll move aisle to aisle. Like, I would do that for someone equally. But I'm not moving aisle to window because I don't like window. I don't like to be pinned in.
• 30:51
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 30:51
  Speaker A: Okay, so we're about to go to Kauai, saving pool chairs at the pool. 7am Everybody runs outside, everybody puts their damn towel down and then they go disappear.
• 30:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think saving one or two.
• 31:02
  Speaker A: Oh, you have a number. One or two.
• 31:04
  Speaker B: Like, not with six people. No.
• 31:06
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 31:06
  Speaker B: If there's six of us, then four of us better be getting down there and utilizing that.
• 31:12
  Speaker A: But you're saying you'd have to stay down there.
• 31:14
  Speaker B: Yeah. I don't think you should be able to go tap. Tap a chair and then not use
• 31:16
  Speaker A: it and then like, put your clothes there and leave. You're not saying that. You're saying that you gotta, like, you gotta have part of your party there.
• 31:23
  Speaker B: Yeah. One person stays as tribute. Like it. You have to be using it. If you're not gonna use it, then just take one or two and store your stuff on it. That's fine. I get that we all need a place to put our stuff, but if you're not gonna be laying out and using.
• 31:33
  Speaker A: I think people are assholes about put like expensive on cruises. People are assholes. They like go up there at like 7 o', clock, lay them now like nobody knows anything. It's fucking anarchy. Like, I hate it. And I mean, I'm doing other things anyway. It's not like I'm sitting at the pool, but it's. It is.
• 31:46
  Speaker B: It does suck again. Is there an expectation that you own that chair? I don't know.
• 31:52
  Speaker A: People.
• 31:52
  Speaker B: I don't think so.
• 31:53
  Speaker A: People are just lame.
• 31:53
  Speaker B: You should. If you're using it, great. If you're not, let someone else use it.
• 31:56
  Speaker A: Okay. I'm switching to technology. Are you ready? Okay. Phones. Phones on the table. Dinner.
• 32:01
  Speaker B: I really. I struggle with this one.
• 32:03
  Speaker A: Out to dinner at home. Whatever.
• 32:05
  Speaker B: The answer is no. I think phones should be put away and you should be present with the people that you're with. I struggle with this one personally, so.
• 32:12
  Speaker A: Okay. Coming from a woman who's always on her phone.
• 32:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:14
  Speaker A: Very interesting. Okay. I never thought about it. I always have my phone with me. I hate having it in my pocket, so I always put it on the table. I don't often look at it while I'm eating dinner at the table. At all.
• 32:24
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 32:25
  Speaker A: At home it's not there. But when I'm out at a restaurant, I cannot stand it. In my pocket.
• 32:29
  Speaker B: I think it's fine on the table.
• 32:31
  Speaker A: Okay. It's fine on the table. Just don't look at it.
• 32:32
  Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and I do struggle also, like, when my kids aren't with me. Like, I do have to be accessible for that reason. But. Yeah.
• 32:39
  Speaker A: Interesting. Speakerphone. Idiots walking around, like, in Vaughn's. I hear all the time, what are you doing today? While they're, like, looking for their food and stuff like that? It's usually older generation. I'm not gonna lie. They're always on speaker or FaceTime. They're so fucking loud. I hate it. Obviously you can tell very passionate already about this whole thing. What's your take? Is speakerphone ever loud?
• 32:57
  Speaker B: I.
• 32:58
  Speaker A: The answer is no.
• 32:59
  Speaker B: My dad's speakerphone, because he can't hear.
• 33:02
  Speaker A: I don't care. Well, that's not my problem. But then don't be on the phone in public. Like, finish whatever it is you're doing. Finish the task and be like, I'll call you back. Bye.
• 33:10
  Speaker B: Right. I don't think you should be obnoxious about it, but I do think if somebody needs to answer it by default.
• 33:14
  Speaker A: You're obnoxious if you have to be on speakerphone to hear. I'm sorry, Amanda, I love your dad, but. Nope. No, no.
• 33:19
  Speaker B: I think I have a little more grace for, like, the older generation.
• 33:21
  Speaker A: Fine. Older generation, you should say. Here's what I would say. Is this an emergency? No, I'll call you back. That's fine. But not like. Not like we're talking about recipes. Not. We're talking.
• 33:30
  Speaker B: No, we're not doing, like, a casual conversation.
• 33:32
  Speaker A: That's what happens.
• 33:33
  Speaker B: No. Okay. Not a casual conversation, but if it's something that needs to be handled. Like, if you're calling.
• 33:36
  Speaker A: Because unless you're getting your arm amputated or there's an emergency, it's not acceptable, period.
• 33:44
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 33:45
  Speaker A: Okay, that's it. Done. That's all for technology. I didn't have a lot for technology. Okay, last category. Like, just every day, Random, miscellaneous. I don't even know. Okay. Return the shopping cart.
• 33:56
  Speaker B: Oh, this tells you what type of person you are.
• 33:58
  Speaker A: Oh, this is big. Yes.
• 33:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, there's a bunch of psychology here.
• 34:01
  Speaker A: What's the rule? What do you do?
• 34:03
  Speaker B: So the right answer is you walk the right.
• 34:06
  Speaker A: Oh, shit, she's got the right answer.
• 34:08
  Speaker B: You walk it all the way back to where you got it in front of the store. The problem I have.
• 34:13
  Speaker A: You're a better person than me after
• 34:15
  Speaker B: I had kids was I can't. I don't want to walk through the parking lot with the kids.
• 34:19
  Speaker A: Yeah. And you don't want to leave them
• 34:21
  Speaker B: alone, and I don't leave them alone. So the cart return area, I think, is acceptable. Number two answer.
• 34:26
  Speaker A: Oh, I think it's totally acceptable. That's why they have them.
• 34:28
  Speaker B: And then there's other moms who are like, well, I can't even leave my kids alone in the car for that long. They're going to die. I'm like, no, they're not. Usually the cart returns maybe 10 stalls away.
• 34:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Like, right.
• 34:39
  Speaker B: I think you're going to be fine.
• 34:40
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 34:40
  Speaker B: We'll have to leave it. If you leave it in the parking lot, you're just a heathen.
• 34:44
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I completely agree. I've never ever left one in a parking lot anywhere. I go back or I leave them in a cart return, so. Never. Never.
• 34:52
  Speaker B: Only left it once. Not in a cart return. But that was because the cart return was so full. If I put my cart in there and then impeded traffic.
• 35:00
  Speaker A: But fine. So we're both cart returners. Everybody else are heathens.
• 35:03
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 35:03
  Speaker A: Okay, fine. Merge. I'm going to go back to merging. Remember the merging I talked about at
• 35:07
  Speaker B: the beginning on the freeway?
• 35:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. What? Like, talk to me about merging and waving and, like, letting people in. And do you have to do the merge wave, like, oh, thank you. Or the peace sign, like, give me the. Give me the vibe.
• 35:18
  Speaker B: Okay. So when you're merging.
• 35:19
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 35:19
  Speaker B: You're supposed to zipper.
• 35:21
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 35:21
  Speaker B: Right.
• 35:22
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:22
  Speaker B: And you should be courteous. So.
• 35:24
  Speaker A: But that's because. That's because if you're going slow enough, then I think zipper is fine. And you don't have to wave because that's the normal routine.
• 35:32
  Speaker B: You weren't a problem child then. Yes. I don't think you have to wave,
• 35:37
  Speaker A: but if you know you're doing okay.
• 35:38
  Speaker B: If you're not speeding up fast enough.
• 35:40
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 35:40
  Speaker B: And you're. If you're merging on the freeway and you are causing other cars to have to go around you or slow down, you are a problem. You better wave. If I emerging on a freeway and I gauge the person who's coming up behind me, if I accelerate it or I go behind them, I think it's fine. But if I cause a problem, you absolutely should say sorry and wave.
• 36:00
  Speaker A: I am generally a waiver. Like, just. I don't want to die from road rage. Because I have road rage. So I get like. But I don't want to die from it. So I. Like, I'll be waving every okay. Yeah, thanks a lot. Like, I don't even know if I'm doing it right, but, like, it is no harm, no foul to do the extra wave. It costs me nothing and I won't get shot. So I'm a waiver probably. Like, there's probably. People look at me like, why is he waving?
• 36:23
  Speaker B: I am a waiver when somebody makes me mad.
• 36:27
  Speaker A: Oh, interesting. So you're a passive aggressive waiver. Oh, that tracks. That totally tracks. We talked about this on Tipping episode. Tip for takeout. No, no, I will. If it's a regular place I go to all the time. Like a family restaurant.
• 36:45
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know. That's it.
• 36:46
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 36:47
  Speaker B: Doing their job.
• 36:48
  Speaker A: Okay, last one. Is it okay to eat somebody's leftovers in the office fridge?
• 36:54
  Speaker B: No. You have to ask in all cases. Yes.
• 36:57
  Speaker A: What if it's here a few days?
• 36:59
  Speaker B: Then you throw that shit in the trash.
• 37:00
  Speaker A: Always ask. What about at home? I have four grown children. What is what like? We just went out to dinner last night. There's shit in the fridge today. Is it whoever brought it home or is it fair game in the fridge? Or how long before, like, other kids are allowed to go at it? I actually have a rule for this.
• 37:15
  Speaker B: Really? Yes. So my answer would be you probably have free game to whatever leftovers are in your fridge whenever you want.
• 37:21
  Speaker A: No. Oh, I don't know. No, no, no, I wouldn't. I got. I got it.
• 37:24
  Speaker B: So as a.
• 37:25
  Speaker A: Like, I understand that. Yeah. No, I'm talking about kid to kid. Sorry.
• 37:28
  Speaker B: Kid to kid, I probably bet that you went out and you paid for it. So you paid for it.
• 37:32
  Speaker A: Okay, fine. But kid to kid, I give them one day, meaning the next day, if it's not eaten by the kid that ordered it, then the following day, or that even that evening, if they don't eat by lunch the next day by that evening, it's fair game for anybody. I don't care.
• 37:45
  Speaker B: That makes sense.
• 37:45
  Speaker A: So it's like, I'm gonna call it a, you know, 18 hour rule.
• 37:49
  Speaker B: Right?
• 37:49
  Speaker A: And then it's fair game. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Anything else? We're good.
• 37:53
  Speaker B: I don't think it was a good one.
• 37:54
  Speaker A: Can I give you a little science now?
• 37:55
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 37:56
  Speaker A: All right, back to science. All right. So when I was looking all this up and doing all this research, I thought there was like, actually nothing behind this. Like, it was just sort of we're all weird and so on and so forth. But it turns out. British anthropologist. What's an anthropologist? I don't even know. Is that a sociologist? I don't even know Robin Dunbar, who, not even that long ago in the 1990s, believe it or not, 1990s, figured out that the human brain can only maintain stable social relationships for about 150 people. That's it. No more than that. Hard limit. It's called Dunbar's number, actually. Go figure. Thank you, Dunbar. It goes all the way back to like indigenous tribes.
• 38:35
  Speaker B: Community.
• 38:36
  Speaker A: Yes, community. And we use it for everything, like military, like small towns. It's sort of the 150 is what Dunbar calls social accountability. Once it gets bigger than 150, you sort of lose the accountability. And thus the rules that we're talking about have to take effect because you can't single out a person when you're 150 or less. The community's small enough, you can single them out. So our brains, he argues, evolved to enforce these unwritten rules because at the time they had like real consequences. You would die. Like something, something bad could happen. You'd be eaten by the saber toothed tiger, whatever the fuck it is. I don't even know, right? So nowadays our brains still use that same caveman mentality or energy. It's just, it doesn't equate to the problem anymore. So before it was you'll die because of saber toothed tiger. Now it's, the guy didn't wave to me and I'm pissed off. And our brain has lost that connectivity. And the reason we get so angry about it is because of another phenomenon that comes from criminals. Actually, it's called the broken window theory. Some guys, Wilson and Kellinger, studied this around the same time as Dunbar. They published a book on it. The broken window theory is that if somebody, you know, breaks the norm, violates the norm, they've broken a little corner of that window, and if nobody does anything to fix the window, then subsequently more people start breaking the window. So Wilson and Kelling argued that our brains know intuitively that we have to fix the problem because someone's getting away with. We're not even mad at that they broke the window, were mad that they're getting away with it. Does that like that. That's the whole concept, right?
• 40:14
  Speaker B: Well, I mean, every action has a consequence. Yes, is what we're taught.
• 40:16
  Speaker A: Right?
• 40:17
  Speaker B: So when someone doesn't get their consequence, Right.
• 40:19
  Speaker A: So, right, somebody's driving up the shoulder
• 40:21
  Speaker B: of the freeway, chaos ensues.
• 40:22
  Speaker A: So you're getting away with that. And oh my God, if that's happened, everyone's gonna do it. And if everyone's do it, then What? So it's. It's. We're not even mad at the act. It's fascinating, the psychological shit that's going on that were hardwired from, like, 10,000 years ago to caveman days of, like, safety and. And not getting eaten.
• 40:39
  Speaker B: But if there was a consequence, we don't have as many of the severe consequences today. But I think what people lose sight of is that, yes, you may get away with it, you may be able to cheat the system, but it's deteriorating.
• 40:49
  Speaker A: That's why we personally take it, like, it's so offensive to us, because the moral code still exists because we're hardwired to believe. Anyway, I thought that was fascinating. That was just, like, my weird little, like, you know, sciencey stuff to, like, tie this whole thing together. Whatever. I'm done. That was all I got.
• 41:04
  Speaker B: Well, in your research, did you find any fun facts?
• 41:06
  Speaker A: I got a few fun facts. I do. I always do. Get a little nugget, a little fun fact. Okay. Yeah, here we go. Number one, the wave. Right after the merge. We talked about it. That's only been around since the 1950s. That's, like. Hasn't. That's.
• 41:18
  Speaker B: Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.
• 41:19
  Speaker A: You know why it started?
• 41:20
  Speaker B: Well, it would have been the automobile, right?
• 41:23
  Speaker A: So I thought the automobile, too. But it's car windows, when they became more easy to roll down, so. Because Automobiles were, like 1920s or 1900. Right. So it wasn't until you could roll the window down and wave, like before then it was a little bit harder. You had to open doors and do. So nobody was doing it. So. Yeah, it's only, like, what, like 70 years old?
• 41:41
  Speaker B: When I wave, I don't wave out my window.
• 41:43
  Speaker A: I do. Well, it depends, Right. The air conditioning's on. You're chilling. SoCal. Right. You don't do it, but I'll roll down the window. I'll do a wave. Okay, so number two, do you know where the whole idea of don't discuss money or politics at dinner comes from?
• 41:54
  Speaker B: Ooh, no.
• 41:56
  Speaker A: Victorian England, of course.
• 41:58
  Speaker B: Oh, that makes sense.
• 41:58
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 41:59
  Speaker B: Well, because you left out religion. So then I was wondering if it, like, was farther back.
• 42:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, I just this. Fun facts only. Only politics or money. Yeah, 1880s. It was connected with the idea of the class of people because they were rich, like, in Victorian England, so they didn't like talking about where their money came from, because that was, like, embarrassing or whatever. Or maybe they didn't want people to know, like, oh, I inherited the money, so whatever. I think that's just totally Random. That's where I come from. Number three, the reason we all instinctively lower our voices in libraries and hospitals and churches, even in countries with totally different cultures, mind you, we still do. It appears to be nearly universal. Researchers believe it traces back to pre civilization behavior around sleeping or injured group members. You lowered your voice so you didn't attract predators. We're still doing this, right? In 2026. Same idea of like. Yeah, it's just like, hey, what the nature.
• 42:48
  Speaker B: Which is funny though.
• 42:48
  Speaker A: We don't want to get murdered by woolly mammoth.
• 42:51
  Speaker B: Right. But libraries, churches and hospitals, I don't know.
• 42:55
  Speaker A: Because there's people are sick or people are.
• 42:57
  Speaker B: You're not gonna get attacked there.
• 42:59
  Speaker A: Not in a library. That's true. Whatever. Okay.
• 43:01
  Speaker B: I think those are more so, like about being attacked. It's more so about like being respectful of space.
• 43:06
  Speaker A: What do you want me to do? You are correct. Amundo. Yes. When you're thinking, when you're deep in thought, you're in a library, you know. Okay, fine. Number four, businesses have the same unwritten rules. Of course. We just talked about the refrigerator and can we eat the lunches? 2 drink minimum at a bar. That's obviously not a law or anything, right? A bunch of bar owners just got together and said, like, we're gonna do this thing so that people wouldn't sit at a table all night and just drink water or Diet Coke or whatever the hell they do. And somehow it just. Everybody's got two drink minimum. I mean, I know at regular bar it's not like that, but like, you go to comedy nights. Whatever. It's two drink minimum. Bullshit.
• 43:36
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:36
  Speaker A: I think that's wild. Like just. We just accept it. That's just to say it's like tipping. We just like it just to say that. Yes. Okay. Okay. And finally the last one. You must bring something to a dinner party. That rule is not universal in America. It's universal in Japan. We were talking about Japan earlier. Cleaning the stadium. Bringing someone a gift can actually create a social discomfort. Yes. Because the host now has to reciprocate appropriately. That's fucked up. They don't want to do that. Different rules, different cultures, same humanity. Oh, it's me.
• 44:07
  Speaker B: Whenever, like someone comes in and I invite them over and they have like, you know, a hostess gift or whatever and I'm like, oh, no, can you
• 44:14
  Speaker A: take it back quickly? Before and after. Okay, that's all I got fun facts out.
• 44:18
  Speaker B: I love it, especially the last one because it's like totally me and like, I feel it in My soul.
• 44:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. As soon as I went Asian, you were like, yeah, I can relate.
• 44:25
  Speaker B: So if anybody wants to learn a little bit more about. I don't know, how do you learn more about the subject?
• 44:30
  Speaker A: There's nothing to learn more about. All you really need to do is DM us if you want fun facts or if you want our episode summary at the end, and we'll zip it to your inbox, and you could delight your friends with all of this cool new information that you have. Thank you for supporting us.
• 44:45
  Speaker B: Well, that's, like, all true. I'm sure that's bullshit. There's something.
• 44:48
  Speaker A: There is something.
• 44:49
  Speaker B: You found something.
• 44:49
  Speaker A: I got, like, one or two things. Okay. There's a book. Believe it or not, there's a book, because you always got to read books, people. The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships. Yes. By Temple Grandin and Sean Barron. It was written for a different audience, but probably one of the, like, clearest books ever written about these rules and, like, why they are the way they are and, like, why we just absorb them without being taught. Whatever. And if you want to get really serious, look up anything by the guy Irving Goffman. He basically invented the sociology of everyday social behavior. Like, he's the one who coined the idea that we're basically all performing, quote, unquote, performing to each other, like, all the time. Explains a lot. Irving Goffman. That's all I got nothing else. Go have fun with this whole thing and do whatever you want.
• 45:30
  Speaker B: All right, well, if you don't want to do any of that, you can remember these details. This seems sort of sophisticated.
• 45:34
  Speaker A: Go for it.
• 45:35
  Speaker B: First, unwritten rules are called social norms by sociologists, and almost none of them were designed intentionally. They emerged through repetition and imitation until the behavior became the expectation. Nobody voted, nobody wrote anything down. They just became real. Second, breaking an unwritten rule carries a real social cost. Even though there's no enforcement mechanism, the punishment is shame, judgment, or quiet social exclusion. Why are you already laughing?
• 46:00
  Speaker A: Because for me, it's totally true. Sorry. That's true.
• 46:03
  Speaker B: I mean, which for most humans is punishment enough. So don't do it, guys. Third, some of the rules we assume are ancient are also surprisingly recent. So the dinner table, no phones rule is only a decade old. The merge wave barely predates Elvis Presley, and the don't discuss money is only, like, 150 years old. So it makes you wonder if there were any rules before then that just didn't get passed down. Here we are.
• 46:27
  Speaker A: We just don't know them anymore.
• 46:28
  Speaker B: Well, I mean, like the kids, you're supposed to be seen, not heard, right.
• 46:31
  Speaker A: Oh, I like that one.
• 46:32
  Speaker B: Amen.
• 46:33
  Speaker A: Why did we do that? They do.
• 46:36
  Speaker B: Fourth, the most revealing question isn't whether you know the rule. It's what your instinctive reaction is when someone breaks it. That tells you everything about where the rule actually lives, which is not on any page or anywhere. It's in you. And it could be different person to person.
• 46:49
  Speaker A: Thus the reason for this whole podcast. But I'd argue you, like, actually thought through a lot of these. Like, really well. Like, I don't think about them the way you think about them.
• 46:57
  Speaker B: Anyways. And finally, the shopping cart return. Speaking of return it always. It's not an etiquette rule. It's a character test with no proctor in the room, and you know it. So just do it.
• 47:07
  Speaker A: Do it every time. There you have it. Dear listeners, we started today with a bunch of rules that nobody made, yet somehow everybody knows. And we hope by now you're seeing them a little differently. Not as arbitrary social anxiety, but as something actually kind of beautiful proof that humans, left to their own devices, will organize, we'll coordinate, we'll build a whole invisible architecture of how we treat each other without a single meeting or memo or law. The unwritten rules are what civilization actually runs on. Not the legal stuff, the stuff you just know. And for the most part, people do follow it. And that is honestly kind of remarkable when you think about how many of us there are and how little actually any of us are in charge. If we did our job today, you're walking away with a little more grace about the guy who doesn't wave after the merge. Maybe he just moved here. Maybe he didn't know. Or maybe he's just a bad person. Either way, you waved. And that's the rule. As always, if you like what you just heard, hit subscribe, leave a review, share it with someone who needs to learn how to return the shopping cart. Please. Until next time, stay curious, stay kind, and be excellent to each other.