Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / NEW BOOK LEADS TO PASTOR’S ARREST IN MURDER OF GIRL, 8, WALKING TO BIBLE CAMP

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NEW BOOK LEADS TO PASTOR’S ARREST IN MURDER OF GIRL, 8, WALKING TO BIBLE CAMP · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:14
Speaker 2: Vacation Bible School.
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Speaker 3: I certainly went to Vacation Bible School every single summer,
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Speaker 3: as have my children, and we've loved it. But how
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Speaker 3: does a simple walk to VBS turn into murder? Murder
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Speaker 3: for an eight year old little girl, and how does
0:40
Speaker 3: a book written years later shed light on this child's
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Speaker 3: disappearance and gruesome death.
0:52
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:54
Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Sination
0:57
Speaker 3: and Serious exem one eleven.
0:59
Speaker 2: Take a listens to our friends a crime online.
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Speaker 4: It's a summertime ritual for many, Vacation Bible School and
1:05
Speaker 4: that's where eight year old Gretchen Harrington was headed. She
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Speaker 4: left home planning to walk the half mile to Trinity
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Speaker 4: Christian Reform Church and then on to nearby Brumall Reform
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Speaker 4: Presbyterian Church. Gretchen's dad was a pastor there. Gretchen walked alone.
1:19
Speaker 4: Usually she was accompanied by her two sisters, but this day,
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Speaker 4: the older girls decided to stay home to see a
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Speaker 4: newborn sister their mom was bringing home. Two hours passed
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Speaker 4: before Pastor Harrington found out. Gretchen never made it to BBS.
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Speaker 4: Trinity's pastor and his wife were working the vacation Bible
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Speaker 4: School program and they knew Gretchen well. One of their
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Speaker 4: daughters was Gretchen's best friend. After speaking with Gretchen's father,
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Speaker 4: the pastor called police, as Gretchen's father had asked. As
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Speaker 4: the day got dark around eight pm. No sign of Gretchen.
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Speaker 3: Wow, I cannot even imagine. So a short walk turns
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Speaker 3: into a disappearance. Joining me an all star panel to
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Speaker 3: make sense of what we know right now.
2:00
Speaker 2: But first I want.
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Speaker 3: To go out to Audrey Conklin, crime reporter with Fox
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Speaker 3: News Digital.
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Speaker 2: Audrey, thank you so much for being with us.
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Speaker 3: Tell me where this happened and how far this eight
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Speaker 3: year old little girl had to walk.
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Speaker 5: It happened in Marple Township, Pennsylvania, which is a suburb
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Speaker 5: of Philadelphia, where as I have learned, a lot of people,
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Speaker 5: a lot of families moved to kind of escape urban crime,
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Speaker 5: and the walk wasn't far. Her father was actually passed
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Speaker 5: through at one of the churches that was part of
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Speaker 5: this Bible camp. So he washed her leave home every
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Speaker 5: morning and walked to camp. And on that morning, for
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Speaker 5: some reason, he just turned around and didn't see her.
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Speaker 5: Finish her walk up the road.
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Speaker 3: Now, this is just so reminiscent of the disappearance of
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Speaker 3: little Aton Pats who the first day he was to
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Speaker 3: walk to school, and I believe it's only one or
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Speaker 3: two blocks, and they've been practicing and practicing the very
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Speaker 3: first day that he.
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Speaker 2: Used to walk to school.
3:08
Speaker 3: He is kidnapped and murdered again with me an all
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Speaker 3: star panel to make sense of what we know right now.
3:16
Speaker 3: But interesting to Jarrett Farentino joining me high profile homicide prosecutor,
3:22
Speaker 3: joining us out of the Pennsylvania jurisdiction, Jarrett, in a
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Speaker 3: world where it should be safe to let your child
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Speaker 3: walk one block or two blocks, it's not. It's really
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Speaker 3: not safe at all, Jarrett.
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Speaker 6: It could happen anywhere, any place, at any time, and
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Speaker 6: it looks like this little girl and she was targeted.
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Speaker 6: She was alone that day, there was a lot going
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Speaker 6: on at their home. It's just horrifying here in Pennsylvania
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Speaker 6: and anywhere when this happens.
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Speaker 3: What can you tell me about this particular area, Jarrett Fiorentino,
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Speaker 3: Is that rural are there? Is there a dense population,
4:01
Speaker 3: is it wooded, is it farmland?
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Speaker 2: What is it?
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Speaker 6: It's less rule today than it was then. But it
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Speaker 6: certainly was Nancy an escape, a place where people and
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Speaker 6: families such as this would go to escape the rigors
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Speaker 6: of the city and the dangers of the city.
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Speaker 7: Quite honestly, you know, a.
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Speaker 6: Child should be safe in any community, particularly this one,
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Speaker 6: to walk to Bible School.
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Speaker 2: Even now, Broomall only has a population.
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Speaker 3: Ten thousand, seven eighty nine, and that was a couple
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Speaker 3: of years ago that since this was taken, but still
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Speaker 3: a very very small area. Joining me right now, Brandon
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Speaker 3: m Great special guest Chief of Police in the Marple
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Speaker 3: Township PD there in brooml You can find them at
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Speaker 3: Marplepolice dot com. Chief, thank you for being.
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Speaker 7: With us, Thank you for having me.
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Speaker 3: I believe that the case of this little girl, Gretchen
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Speaker 3: Harrington has hung like a pall, like a specter over
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Speaker 3: the police department when you first came in as chief,
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Speaker 3: were you familiar with Gretchen's case?
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Speaker 8: Oh?
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Speaker 9: Yes, not only when I became chief in twenty twenty,
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Speaker 9: but when I got hired here Marple it was a
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Speaker 9: you know, one of three unsolved serious cases homicides that
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Speaker 9: were part of the lure of this police department, and
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Speaker 9: of course with the neat year old girls the victim.
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Speaker 9: It ranks right at the top of those that really
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Speaker 9: stick in the crawl.
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Speaker 3: You know, it's true that certain cases define certain areas,
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Speaker 3: like Atlanta is always associated with the Wayne Williams serial killings,
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Speaker 3: were dozens of children and teens go missing.
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Speaker 2: And are murdered by Wayne Williams. It goes on. For instance,
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Speaker 2: people associate, let's just see Ted Bundy with the Cayomega killings,
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Speaker 2: although he started out west. You associate Scott Peterson with Modesto.
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Speaker 2: It's a horrible stigma to be attached to any particular town.
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Speaker 2: But that was the impact of the disappearance of this.
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Speaker 3: Eight year old little girl on her way to Bible
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Speaker 3: School of all places, take a listen to our friend
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Speaker 3: Dave Mack.
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Speaker 4: Hundreds of people took part in the search for the
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Speaker 4: little girl. A police helicopter continuously flew overhead. Teams of
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Speaker 4: searchers combed the hillside of the community. Friends and family
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Speaker 4: handed out flyers with Gregen's picture on it. Some witnesses
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Speaker 4: said they had seen Gregen outside a car talking to someone,
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Speaker 4: but nothing came of the lead. Just two days after
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Speaker 4: she disappeared, with little to go on, police called off
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Speaker 4: the large scale search.
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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know.
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Speaker 3: We're more familiar with the ways of the world now,
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Speaker 3: but when I see a kid outside a car, I
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Speaker 3: always stop. I just stopped and I watch to see
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Speaker 3: what happened, will what will happen because I'm just so
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Speaker 3: indoctrinated in cars snatching children. At the time Gretchen was
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Speaker 3: snatched off the street, no one thought a thing about it,
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Speaker 3: and then a gruesome discovery listen.
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Speaker 4: Two months after Gretchen left for vacation Bible school, a
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Speaker 4: jogger found skeletonized human remains of a little girl. The
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Speaker 4: Harringtons confirmed the clothing found with the body as Gretchen's.
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Speaker 4: It was only twenty minutes from her home. Dental records
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Speaker 4: were used to positively identify the remains. Gretchen's manner of
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Speaker 4: death was ruled a homicide. The girl's skull had been
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Speaker 4: fractured by multiple vicious blows. An autoposy did not reveal
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Speaker 4: sex assault, but police believed that was the motive. Police
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Speaker 4: received numerous tips, but none lead to a suspect.
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Speaker 2: Joining me right now.
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Speaker 3: Renowned medical examiner, the chief medical Examiner for Alleghany County,
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Speaker 3: doctor Carl Williams and Fyi. Alleghany County is in Pennsylvania
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Speaker 3: where Gretchen was kidnapped and murdered. Doctor Williams, thank you
7:57
Speaker 3: for being with us, please, Doctor Williams. A couple of
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Speaker 3: questions about the discovery of Gretchen's body. Now we know
8:04
Speaker 3: that even though hundreds of people had taken part in
8:08
Speaker 3: the search for this little girl combing the hillside of
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Speaker 3: the community, it was two months after she goes missing
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Speaker 3: a jog or finds or skeletonized remains. She was identified
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Speaker 3: by her clothing and by dental records. Is it odd
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Speaker 3: that she is totally skeletonized in just two months.
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Speaker 7: No, depending on the season, that can happen in a
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Speaker 7: matter of weeks very easily. So that's not surprising. That's
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Speaker 7: not surprising at all.
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Speaker 3: You know, we're so used to watching programs on TV
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Speaker 3: and Blockbuster movies where all sorts of high tech is used.
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Speaker 2: The truth is, that's not truth. It's not like that.
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Speaker 2: Very often.
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Speaker 3: Ideas are made from clothing, are made from dental records,
9:02
Speaker 3: and then if.
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Speaker 2: We can get DNA, we do.
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Speaker 3: How is the identification of a body made through dental records,
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Speaker 3: Doctor Williams.
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Speaker 7: Well, you really don't even need dental records in this
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Speaker 7: case because the identitian was so intact and so obvious
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Speaker 7: from the photographs. But that was the combination of the
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Speaker 7: distinctive clothing, the braids, and the hair. It was a
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Speaker 7: pretty easy identification. They say dental records. I'm not even
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Speaker 7: sure if she had records, but you wouldn't even need
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Speaker 7: it because of the distinctive nature of the insize or
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Speaker 7: some things. It was a pretty straightforward identification.
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Speaker 2: What do you mean by the distinctive features of the incisors?
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Speaker 7: She had two large incisors, gaps on either side, and
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Speaker 7: the photographs okay, so just as a matter of the
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Speaker 7: stage of dentician. So I didn't see any specific records.
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Speaker 7: I didn't any specific reference to dental records other than
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Speaker 7: dental identification. So having the pictures, having the incisors are
10:01
Speaker 7: found in the skullton things that would have been sufficient. Again,
10:08
Speaker 7: very distinctive braids in the hair, very distinctive clothes. I
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Speaker 7: don't think there was any question whatsoever about the identification.
10:27
Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 3: It's very curious to me, doctor Carl Williams, that you
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Speaker 3: have mentioned the gap next to her incisors.
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Speaker 2: I noticed the same thing.
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Speaker 3: It looks like she still had her baby teeth in
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Speaker 3: part some of them.
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Speaker 7: You're absolutely right. Just seeing the photograph and comparing that
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Speaker 7: with what would have been seen in the skeletonized remains,
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Speaker 7: I would not have had any problem in making the
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Speaker 7: identification for those of.
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Speaker 3: You that cannot see doctor Williams and I are talking about,
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Speaker 3: I'm looking at a picture of this. I mean, just
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Speaker 3: a precious, precious little girl, the daughter of a Presbyterian
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Speaker 3: minister and his wife, who goes missing mid August on
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Speaker 3: her way to Bible school at Trinity Church Chapel. She's
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Speaker 3: got a big smile and when he's saying the gap
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Speaker 3: beside her incisors on either side of the nose if
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Speaker 3: you come straight down, there is a big noticeable gap
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Speaker 3: to the side on her right side of her front teeth,
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Speaker 3: a big gap between that, and it's on the top
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Speaker 3: and the bottom. When she smiles, it kind of makes
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Speaker 3: a diamond shape of a gap. It's very noticeable, and
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Speaker 3: you see her adult teeth, her adult front two teeth
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Speaker 3: have come in, but from there back it looks like
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Speaker 3: she this little child still has her baby teeth, and
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Speaker 3: there's a big gap between the hront teeth and the
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Speaker 3: beginning of the teeth. Now the incisor, isn't that basically
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Speaker 3: your fangs?
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Speaker 7: Yeah?
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Speaker 2: Exactly, okayisers now I see what you're saying.
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Speaker 3: It's a big gap between the front tooth and the incisor,
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Speaker 3: your vampire fang.
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Speaker 2: Got it. It's very noticeable.
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Speaker 3: And I'm sure when her grown teeth will come in
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Speaker 3: that would have straightened up. But this little child never
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Speaker 3: even got her adult teeth. This little baby girl still
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Speaker 3: had her baby teeth. I'm curious, do we know, Audrey
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Speaker 3: Conklin or doctor Carl Williams. Was she clothed? Well, she
12:34
Speaker 3: was clothed when she was found, because she was partially
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Speaker 3: identified based on her clothing. Is that right, Audie Conklin, Yes.
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Speaker 5: I believe part of her clothing was ripped damaged in
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Speaker 5: some way.
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Speaker 3: Did you say ripped? Yeah, there goes, there goes, doctor Williams.
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Speaker 3: Go ahead, doctor, Well, I.
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Speaker 7: Was gonna say, you can't tell again by the clothes
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Speaker 7: because they'd be associated again with the decomposition. And it
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Speaker 7: was August, and in August a matter of weeks is
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Speaker 7: more than enough because the skeletonization and the clothes typically
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Speaker 7: would be at least a part of that. So everything
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Speaker 7: fits in a way, and why she was not found
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Speaker 7: I can't say back.
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Speaker 3: To doctor Jeff Kealashevski, renowned psychologists joining us, author of
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Speaker 3: Dark Sides. You can find them on TikTok at doctor
13:23
Speaker 3: Jeff Kalashevski. Doctor, I mean I name a shrink because
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Speaker 3: why with the perp fold up the child's clothes next
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Speaker 3: to her naked body and put her underwear up in
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Speaker 3: a tree.
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Speaker 8: Well, I'll tell you when you look at So this
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Speaker 8: area in the research is called sexual homicide, and we
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Speaker 8: know a lot more about sexual homicide with adult victims
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Speaker 8: than we actually do about child victims. Well, thing that
13:50
Speaker 8: we do know in the research is that typically with
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Speaker 8: sexual homicide child victims, this tends to be more of
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Speaker 8: a crime of opportunity and not as well planned out.
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Speaker 8: So what we see in sexual homicide of child cases
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Speaker 8: is a lot of times the perpetrator has not really
14:10
Speaker 8: figured it all out and hadn't really premeditated a plan.
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Speaker 8: You know, in a situation where he folds the clothes
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Speaker 8: and puts the underwear in the tree, it's obvious that
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Speaker 8: he wanted to signal so that the child would be found,
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Speaker 8: which just offers more questions rather than any answers about
14:31
Speaker 8: his motivation behind the ground, and.
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Speaker 3: Doctor Kelshevski another question. The part left her there and
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Speaker 3: closed out in the woods with her underwear hanging up
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Speaker 3: in a branch like a flag. But he made rudimentary
14:47
Speaker 3: steps in trying to cover up her body. That's something
14:51
Speaker 3: I've always been curious about, Doctor Kelishevski. A killer's attempt
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Speaker 3: to hide, particularly the face. Now, I understand burying about
15:01
Speaker 3: it because you don't want it to be found, but
15:04
Speaker 3: he didn't do a.
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Speaker 2: Very good job.
15:05
Speaker 3: He was more hiding part of her, hiding her with
15:10
Speaker 3: Lee's what is a phenomena of killers trying to cover
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Speaker 3: the faces of their victims.
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Speaker 8: In situations, particularly when there's a sexual homicide. I mean,
15:24
Speaker 8: I've seen a lot of cases myself where killers do
15:28
Speaker 8: various things to people's faces. I had a case where
15:33
Speaker 8: a guy super glued the victim's eye shut, and when
15:38
Speaker 8: I asked him about it, he talked about how it
15:42
Speaker 8: was unpleasant for him to see the victim's face, particularly
15:48
Speaker 8: when the victim was alive. So the motivation behind the
15:53
Speaker 8: idea of not covering the face or covering the face.
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Speaker 8: You know, it really has to do with in that moment,
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Speaker 8: what the murderer is sort of getting out of that experience,
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Speaker 8: in what they don't want to be exposed to.
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Speaker 2: I understand.
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Speaker 3: I'm thinking about this little eight year old girl and
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Speaker 3: what she lived through before her murder, and then, seemingly,
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Speaker 3: out of the blue, we hear from an author. An
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Speaker 3: author Joanna Falcone Sullivan take a listen to our friends
16:32
Speaker 3: at KYWTV.
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Speaker 10: Joanna was nine years old and living in Brumal, Delaware County,
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Speaker 10: when eight year old Gretchen Harrington was kidnapped while walking
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Speaker 10: to a vacation Bible school less than a quarter mile
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Speaker 10: from her home. Gretchen's body was found by a jogger
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Speaker 10: in a state park nearly two months later. The case
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Speaker 10: has always haunted this journalist, so she wrote the book
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Speaker 10: detailing the ongoing investigation.
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Speaker 11: I had wanted to write this story for.
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Speaker 2: Decades and more. Listen.
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Speaker 11: I grew up in Broomall. My co author Mike Mathis
17:05
Speaker 11: grew up in Broomall as well. He grew up in
17:07
Speaker 11: Lawrence Park where this happened. It affected both of us
17:11
Speaker 11: as kids, and it affected a lot of kids. We
17:14
Speaker 11: started interviewing people. We went to Marble Police Department and
17:18
Speaker 11: went through the file repeatedly.
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Speaker 3: In joining me right now that author Joanna Falcone Sullivan,
17:27
Speaker 3: co author of marpls Gretchen Harrington Tragedy, Kidnapping, murder and
17:33
Speaker 3: Innocence Lost in suburban Philadelphia.
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Speaker 2: Wow, that title really says it all. Joanne.
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Speaker 3: I've got so many questions for you, But first of all,
17:47
Speaker 3: thank you for being with us. And tell me how
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Speaker 3: Gretcha's disappearance, her kidnap, her assault and murder affected you
17:57
Speaker 3: as a child growing up in the same area.
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Speaker 12: You know, one of those things that never left my mind.
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Speaker 12: I remember that day very vividly, and so does Mike,
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Speaker 12: my co author. We talked about it over the years.
18:12
Speaker 12: We ran into each other at a high school reunion
18:16
Speaker 12: and we talked about writing the book together, and you know,
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Speaker 12: it was something that I remember so clearly. I remember
18:25
Speaker 12: following the story over the years, and it always was
18:30
Speaker 12: so sad to me because things really seemed to change
18:33
Speaker 12: after that for a lot of families.
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Speaker 2: How did things change?
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Speaker 12: I think, you know, people we had the feeling that
18:42
Speaker 12: we were so safe, we were invincibles in this you know,
18:45
Speaker 12: at this time and after this, I remember, you know,
18:49
Speaker 12: thinking when people would say, oh, it was so great
18:52
Speaker 12: to be able to ride your bikes till midnight and
18:55
Speaker 12: don't come in until the dinner belt found sounded. And
18:59
Speaker 12: you know, I hear people of my generation saying that,
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Speaker 12: and I all I could think of was Gretchen Harrington.
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Speaker 12: You know it was not true. It was not you know,
19:12
Speaker 12: you were not so steep all the time.
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Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting and what you're saying, Joanna guys
19:17
Speaker 3: with me. Joeannaflcone Sullivan, the co author of a definitive
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Speaker 3: book on Gretchen's eight year old Gretchen's disappearance and murder, Joanna,
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Speaker 3: I would walk home from Bible school and home from school.
19:31
Speaker 3: We'd catch a bus or a ride to get there
19:34
Speaker 3: in the mornings, but would walk home. It was over
19:37
Speaker 3: a mile, but both my parents would be gone to
19:40
Speaker 3: work by then, and nobody thought a thing about it.
19:43
Speaker 2: And yes, we could.
19:44
Speaker 3: Ride iur bikes until literally we heard the chimes and
19:49
Speaker 3: the church steeple, and that would mean it was about
19:52
Speaker 3: six o'clock and we needed to go home, or would
19:55
Speaker 3: hear my mom or dad too the car horn in
19:58
Speaker 3: the distance, and we would know that that was our
20:00
Speaker 3: horn and we had to come home because we would
20:02
Speaker 3: be so far away. And it was absolutely fine. But
20:06
Speaker 3: the reality is, in many places it's not. I mean,
20:11
Speaker 3: it would be through hell and high water that I
20:14
Speaker 3: would let my children go out at age eight and
20:18
Speaker 3: walk anywhere by themselves, period, end of story. But I
20:22
Speaker 3: guess it's because of the business I'm in. Most people
20:26
Speaker 3: are very trusting, as were Gretchen's parents. I mean, she
20:30
Speaker 3: had such a short distance to go from where her
20:33
Speaker 3: dad was pastor to the next church over for Bible school.
20:38
Speaker 3: Who would have thought in that short space now? Joanna
20:42
Speaker 3: fl Cone Sullivan, author of Marpool's Gretchen Harrington Tragedy. Joanna,
20:48
Speaker 3: you said you remember the day so clearly when you learned.
20:51
Speaker 2: About Gretchen's disappearance. What is your recollection?
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Speaker 12: My recollection is we were at our swim club called
20:57
Speaker 12: the Large Park Swim Club, not far from where Gretchen
21:01
Speaker 12: was abducted, and we started seeing a helicopter flying over
21:05
Speaker 12: the woods behind the swim club. So of course everyone
21:08
Speaker 12: was curious, you know, what's going on? You know, we
21:11
Speaker 12: didn't know until we got home that day that a
21:13
Speaker 12: little girl was missing, and that stuck with me. We
21:18
Speaker 12: ended up the first chapter starts with that helicopter, and
21:23
Speaker 12: we discovered over the years that it was the same
21:26
Speaker 12: memory that so many people had. Mike and I talked
21:29
Speaker 12: to so many people and they remember that day with
21:33
Speaker 12: the helicopter. They the next day, Mike remembers his dad
21:37
Speaker 12: took part in the search. There were hundreds of community members,
21:41
Speaker 12: volunteer firefighters, police from other jurisdictions participating in the search,
21:48
Speaker 12: and they combed the area. They combed the creek area,
21:52
Speaker 12: the woods behind. There were a lot more woods back then.
21:56
Speaker 12: But you know, so that those days were very vivid,
22:00
Speaker 12: And I also remember her being found because there was
22:03
Speaker 12: always that hope that maybe she would be found alive.
22:07
Speaker 12: And that October day when she was found, I remember
22:10
Speaker 12: and seeing it in the papers. I was a newtown
22:13
Speaker 12: then as well, and read the Philadelphia papers and the
22:19
Speaker 12: local Delaware County papers, and I remember that very clearly.
22:24
Speaker 3: You know, Joanna, just the way you describe that just
22:28
Speaker 3: runs chills down me. That you remember seeing the helicopters overhead,
22:33
Speaker 3: and then finding out a couple of months later, the
22:36
Speaker 3: hope that she was alive somewhere, and then finding out
22:40
Speaker 3: that her remains had been found. I've got a question
22:44
Speaker 3: for you, Joanna, and maybe Chief Graef can answer. Chief
22:47
Speaker 3: of police there in Marble Township, did search or search
22:53
Speaker 3: that area of woods where her body was ultimately found, either.
22:57
Speaker 9: Of you know no where she was found was I think,
23:01
Speaker 9: as the crow flies, probably about five miles away.
23:04
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll tell you what I was worried about, Chief.
23:07
Speaker 3: I was worried that she was held captive. If they
23:09
Speaker 3: had searched that area and didn't find her, and then
23:12
Speaker 3: two months later a jograph finds her in that same area,
23:16
Speaker 3: that is even worse because that would have meant he
23:19
Speaker 3: kept her alive, raping her and sodomizing her for a
23:24
Speaker 3: period of time, and then went and put her body
23:26
Speaker 3: out there, hanging her underwear up in a tree so
23:28
Speaker 3: she would be found.
23:30
Speaker 2: That is an even worse scenario.
23:32
Speaker 3: So I'm glad to hear that guys with us an
23:36
Speaker 3: all star panel and including the woman who takes the
23:39
Speaker 3: case on based on memories she had a Gretchen going
23:45
Speaker 3: missing on her walk to Bible school and then really
23:49
Speaker 3: digging in to find the truth, but then out of
23:52
Speaker 3: nowhere a break.
23:54
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our friends at crime Online.
23:57
Speaker 4: Years passed before a case busting phone call come into
24:00
Speaker 4: the Marble Township headquarters. A woman says she thinks she
24:03
Speaker 4: knows who killed Gretchen. The officer contacts state police, an
24:07
Speaker 4: interview is set up. The woman spoke of her diaries
24:10
Speaker 4: kept as a little girl and about an incident that
24:12
Speaker 4: happened it pastored David Zanstra's home. The woman was friends
24:15
Speaker 4: with the pastor's daughters. During a sleepover, she said she
24:19
Speaker 4: woke up to Pastor Zanstra touching her private area. She
24:23
Speaker 4: moved and says he immediately rushed from the room, but
24:25
Speaker 4: the next night it happened again. She mentioned what happened
24:29
Speaker 4: to her friend and they said, basically, he does that sometimes.
24:33
Speaker 4: The girl told her parents it was the last time
24:36
Speaker 4: she stated a Zanstra's home. Police came to believe that
24:39
Speaker 4: incident happened one week before Gretchen disappeared.
24:42
Speaker 3: Okay, Audrey Conklin joining US investigative report with Fox News Digital.
24:47
Speaker 3: What all the parents did was say, Okay, well, you
24:51
Speaker 3: can't stay over there anymore. Nobody brought a case against
24:55
Speaker 3: this guy, and am I getting it right?
24:56
Speaker 5: He's a pastor, Yes, she was a pastor, And I
25:00
Speaker 5: leave a pretty well known member of the community. I
25:03
Speaker 5: don't know exactly how parents handled these accusations from his
25:09
Speaker 5: daughter's friend, but I guess, I guess according to her account,
25:15
Speaker 5: it was kind of pushed under the rug.
25:17
Speaker 3: Joining me is the chief of police there in Marvel Township,
25:21
Speaker 3: Chief Brandon M.
25:23
Speaker 2: Graf.
25:24
Speaker 3: Tell me about what happened. Tell me about what this
25:26
Speaker 3: little girl said.
25:27
Speaker 9: Well, we got a phone call from her in January
25:31
Speaker 9: of this year and she spoke with or a sergeant
25:38
Speaker 9: of detectives, Nick Coffin, and told him about the diary,
25:42
Speaker 9: told him about her suspicions, and the ANSWER's name had
25:46
Speaker 9: been peppered throughout the file, although nothing you know, that
25:50
Speaker 9: would draw anyone's attention, you know, five ten forty years later,
25:56
Speaker 9: during the investigations or the relooction looking back into it.
26:00
Speaker 9: So we took the information and frankly, because of Joanna
26:05
Speaker 9: and Mike's work on the book, I had reached out
26:08
Speaker 9: to the State Police barracks, the cold case unit, who
26:12
Speaker 9: was handling the murder investigation. So even before this woman
26:18
Speaker 9: called us, you know, the bulls was rolling, you know,
26:21
Speaker 9: a little.
26:21
Speaker 7: Faster, I'll say.
26:22
Speaker 9: You know, the interest was peaked again between us and
26:25
Speaker 9: the state police. So you know, it's kind of like
26:27
Speaker 9: a perfect storm because they had, you know, continued to
26:32
Speaker 9: look into it or you know, their investigators. You know,
26:35
Speaker 9: I would say, probably put it more at the top
26:37
Speaker 9: of the list of the cold cases. And then this
26:39
Speaker 9: woman calls fortuitously and we get them the information and
26:44
Speaker 9: you know, off it went.
26:45
Speaker 3: I'm with you, Chief Grave, I do not believe there
26:47
Speaker 3: are coincidences in criminal law. So Joanna Falcone Sullivan and
26:52
Speaker 3: her co author published Marple's Gretchen Harrington Tragedy, Kidnapping, Murder
26:57
Speaker 3: and Innocence Lost in Suburban Philadelphia.
27:00
Speaker 2: That is published.
27:01
Speaker 3: I think it was in October and in January, this
27:05
Speaker 3: woman calls in to recount what happened to her is
27:11
Speaker 3: do I have the timeline correct?
27:13
Speaker 9: Chief, Yes, ma'am, yes you do.
27:14
Speaker 3: Okay, so no coincidence. Take a listen to our friends
27:17
Speaker 3: at KYWTV.
27:19
Speaker 9: Today.
27:19
Speaker 13: Police invited us along as they looked for a report
27:23
Speaker 13: filed by a mom who told officers back then a
27:26
Speaker 13: stranger attempted to kidnap her son near Westchester Pike and
27:30
Speaker 13: Newardmore Avenue. Chief Brandon Graef, a.
27:33
Speaker 9: Man pulled up in a car, opened the trunk, got
27:35
Speaker 9: out and actually grabbed her brother and she they just
27:41
Speaker 9: knew he was going to with the intention of kidnapping him.
27:45
Speaker 13: Police are still looking for that incident report that goes
27:48
Speaker 13: back to the nineteen seventies concerning that attempted kidnapping, and
27:52
Speaker 13: eyewitness to the crime first contacted us here at CBS
27:56
Speaker 13: News Philadelphia, concerned about the information she knew the way
28:00
Speaker 13: back when about that attempted kidnapping.
28:03
Speaker 3: So you've got Gretchen, eight year old, Gretchen kidnapped, sex assaulted,
28:09
Speaker 3: and murdered. You've got another little girl who was molested
28:16
Speaker 3: at the hands of a pastor at a sleepover.
28:19
Speaker 2: And now you've got.
28:20
Speaker 3: A little boy who was the victim of an attempted
28:23
Speaker 3: kidnapping in a vehicle. How many other victims are out there?
28:28
Speaker 3: And then finally take a list hour cut thirteen.
28:32
Speaker 13: Ky WTV prosecutor say Zanstra, a one time reverend, moved
28:37
Speaker 13: around a lot. The results of a DNA test are
28:40
Speaker 13: pending and will be entered into a national database to
28:43
Speaker 13: determine possible connections to other investigations.
28:47
Speaker 9: My mind go to the places that he's lived at,
28:49
Speaker 9: you know, for the past forty eight years in Texas,
28:51
Speaker 9: California and Georgia. You know this general is not somebody
28:57
Speaker 9: who doesn't do this one time.
28:58
Speaker 3: True or words were never spoke and now sent to
29:01
Speaker 3: Fox five our cut one.
29:02
Speaker 14: He's accused of murdering eight year old Gretchen Harrington and Zanstruk.
29:06
Speaker 14: At the time, I'd been working as a pastor at
29:08
Speaker 14: a Pennsylvania church. In August of nineteen seventy five, police
29:12
Speaker 14: tell us that Gretchen left her home to go to
29:14
Speaker 14: Bible camp that was hosted by that very same church.
29:18
Speaker 14: And that's when investigator say, zanstru who was also a
29:21
Speaker 14: family friend of the Herringtons, abducted her, took her to
29:24
Speaker 14: the woods, and beat her to death when she refused
29:26
Speaker 14: to take off her clothes. It took them about two
29:28
Speaker 14: months to find her body.
29:30
Speaker 3: Back to our friend joining us from Fox News Digital,
29:35
Speaker 3: Audrey Coughlin, Audrey, what is the understanding now of what
29:41
Speaker 3: happened to Gretchen?
29:42
Speaker 5: We understand now that Gretchen was sought out by xanstra
29:48
Speaker 5: and attacked and left her dead, unfortunately, and he went
29:53
Speaker 5: on to live the rest of his life. He had
29:56
Speaker 5: a family. He was eighty three years old at the
29:58
Speaker 5: time of his arrest. So we under the radar for decades.
30:01
Speaker 3: But police paint a very different picture of him, as
30:07
Speaker 3: opposed to the image of a loving and benevolent local
30:13
Speaker 3: pastor take us now are cut For Joe.
30:16
Speaker 13: Holden, police painted a picture of an evil man who,
30:19
Speaker 13: they say, Lord gretchento his car, attempted to molest her
30:23
Speaker 13: and then beat her to death when she refused to
30:25
Speaker 13: give into his demands. Her remains were located months later
30:29
Speaker 13: at Ridley Creek State Park.
30:32
Speaker 15: He killed this poor eight year old girl he knew
30:35
Speaker 15: and who trusted him, and then he acted as if
30:38
Speaker 15: he was a family friend, not only doing her burial
30:41
Speaker 15: and the period after that, but for.
30:43
Speaker 1: Years prime stories with Nancy Grace.
31:00
Speaker 2: Doctor carl A.
31:01
Speaker 3: Williams joining as chief medical Examiner Alleghany County there in Pennsylvania.
31:06
Speaker 3: Doctor Williams, I know that you have literally performed thousands
31:09
Speaker 3: and thousands of autopsies. How is it different for you
31:16
Speaker 3: to perform an autopsy on a little girl?
31:19
Speaker 7: Yeah, children are all was difficult for emotional reasons. I mean,
31:25
Speaker 7: the technology, what you have to do, what you have
31:27
Speaker 7: to document is all pretty much the same, but it's
31:30
Speaker 7: harder to separate it from the emotional content. Of dealing
31:35
Speaker 7: with a child. So that's about all I can say.
31:40
Speaker 7: You know, you can do thousands of autopsies and still
31:42
Speaker 7: have kind of an emotional response to certain types of cases.
31:46
Speaker 2: So it's difficult, isn't it true?
31:49
Speaker 3: Chief Graf that it was the defendant himself that called
31:54
Speaker 3: nine to one one.
31:55
Speaker 9: Yes, it was as sick as it makes you feel. Yeah,
31:59
Speaker 9: he was, and just like the strict attorney Stolsteimer said
32:01
Speaker 9: in his news conference, you know, really is the epitome
32:05
Speaker 9: of evil. You know. He played himself as the good
32:10
Speaker 9: family friend that he was and that the Harringtons believed
32:14
Speaker 9: him to be, But he was.
32:15
Speaker 4: The one that called take a listener, our cut f
32:18
Speaker 4: Zanstra told troopers he offered Gretchen a ride that day,
32:21
Speaker 4: which she accepted, but Zanstra didn't drive toward the church.
32:25
Speaker 4: Realizing it, Gretchen asked to go home. Zanstra described how
32:28
Speaker 4: he took her to a wooded area where she refused
32:31
Speaker 4: his demands for her to take off her clothes. That's
32:33
Speaker 4: when Zanstra attacked, beating the girl in the head with
32:37
Speaker 4: his fist, killing her. He covered her half naked body
32:40
Speaker 4: with sticks in the woods before resuming his life.
32:43
Speaker 2: Jarrett F.
32:43
Speaker 3: Garantina joining me. Renowned homicide prosecutor Jarrett so often the
32:51
Speaker 3: molester or the killer of children as a trusted family friend,
32:56
Speaker 3: a relative, a member of the neighborhood that no one
33:00
Speaker 3: whatever suspect.
33:01
Speaker 6: We know Nancy. Those predators, they operate in many instances
33:05
Speaker 6: on trust, and it looks like Danstra built that trust
33:09
Speaker 6: both with this family and this little girl before and after.
33:13
Speaker 6: That's part of their weapon, that trust both in the
33:16
Speaker 6: community and oftentimes with they're victims, and this case is
33:19
Speaker 6: no different.
33:20
Speaker 2: Now.
33:20
Speaker 3: She's been asked many times if she believes her book
33:26
Speaker 3: brought about this arrest. Take alsafras A kyw in Our Cut.
33:31
Speaker 10: Eight when asked if she believes her book may have
33:34
Speaker 10: helped police get the break they needed to make an
33:37
Speaker 10: arrest in this case. Nearly fifty years later.
33:40
Speaker 11: We've been told that by Marvel Police and we're encouraged
33:44
Speaker 11: that we somehow contributed to this. We got people talking again.
33:50
Speaker 10: Well, this was Joanna's first book, but she says she
33:53
Speaker 10: does plan to revise and edit this true crime story
33:57
Speaker 10: here to now reflect the arrest and any updated in
33:59
Speaker 10: from about this case.
34:01
Speaker 3: Joanna Falcone Sullivan joining us along with Chief Brandon m. Graf, Joanna,
34:08
Speaker 3: you're two modest. I agree with the Chief that it's
34:15
Speaker 3: no coincidence your book comes out and then the other
34:20
Speaker 3: little girl, now grown woman, comes forward. It's amazing in retrospect,
34:28
Speaker 3: How do you feel about the journey you've been through
34:32
Speaker 3: investigating this case.
34:34
Speaker 12: We never imagine this kind of outcome. You know, we
34:37
Speaker 12: had hoped that maybe you had shed some light on
34:39
Speaker 12: the case. We had named a prime suspect who died
34:43
Speaker 12: in jail. We were hoping, you know, eventually DNA evidence
34:48
Speaker 12: would come, you know, help solve this. So we never
34:52
Speaker 12: imagine this. We had hoped for this, and you know,
34:55
Speaker 12: in many ways, I'm relieved. I mean, the family will
34:57
Speaker 12: never you know, still never get over it, you know,
35:02
Speaker 12: but hopefully they've found some peace. I imagine it's really
35:05
Speaker 12: hard the fact that it was someone it could be
35:08
Speaker 12: somebody they knew and trusted.
35:11
Speaker 3: Again, you are too humble and too modest. You and
35:14
Speaker 3: your co author have done an amazing, amazing thing. Of course,
35:19
Speaker 3: it could not have been done without the Marvel.
35:23
Speaker 2: Police, correct, Chief Grace. When you reflect on this, yes,
35:29
Speaker 2: justice was slow in coming, but it came.
35:32
Speaker 9: It finally came, and you know, the wheels of justice.
35:35
Speaker 9: We all know if they grind, they grind, Souwy, but honestly,
35:40
Speaker 9: they don't stop, especially in cases like this, they don't stop.
35:45
Speaker 9: When you're advocating for an eight year old girl who
35:49
Speaker 9: can no longer speak for herself, it's our job than
35:52
Speaker 9: to take that the con and speak for her and
35:55
Speaker 9: her family and do everything we can to see that
35:58
Speaker 9: she can rest truly in peace.
36:00
Speaker 3: You know, Chief Grace. I remember going to so many
36:02
Speaker 3: crime scenes and visiting with so many crime victims families,
36:07
Speaker 3: and they would I'd go to their home and sit
36:10
Speaker 3: me down somewhere, usually in the living room, and I
36:13
Speaker 3: could tell it was the best chair, and they would
36:17
Speaker 3: look at me, expecting me to pull some kind of
36:21
Speaker 3: magic trick and make everything okay. And I would always
36:27
Speaker 3: leave feeling like crap because I couldn't make everything okay.
36:32
Speaker 2: Again, people look to.
36:34
Speaker 3: Law enforcement as if we're going to have all the
36:37
Speaker 3: answers and we're going to find the person in a
36:40
Speaker 3: timely manner and justice will proceed. At the end of
36:44
Speaker 3: the day, they're going to feel better. But we're not magicians.
36:47
Speaker 3: We can't work miracles.
36:49
Speaker 2: Chief. I'm just amazed at what.
36:53
Speaker 3: Your force has done of course, with the help of
36:57
Speaker 3: Joe NFL Consulivan's.
37:00
Speaker 2: It's amazing to me this case was ever solved.
37:03
Speaker 7: Thank you.
37:03
Speaker 9: And it is a team effort. It always has been
37:06
Speaker 9: and was. You know, as law enforcement we grapple with
37:12
Speaker 9: you know, the responsibility of everyone expects prevention, right, we
37:16
Speaker 9: want to prevent crime from happening. We know that's not possible,
37:20
Speaker 9: so the best we can do is once a crime happens,
37:25
Speaker 9: you know, now our responsibilities do everything we can to
37:28
Speaker 9: get justice for victims. We don't know what we don't
37:31
Speaker 9: know as far as prevention, you know, we don't know
37:33
Speaker 9: what we prevent. But you know, the cases like this,
37:38
Speaker 9: and I honestly can speak for all law enforcement here.
37:42
Speaker 9: Cases like this don't ever get dusty. They really don't,
37:46
Speaker 9: you know.
37:46
Speaker 3: To doctor Jeff Kelschewsky joining US renowned forensic psychologist and
37:50
Speaker 3: author of Dark Sides, Doctor Jeff, you know, I was
37:54
Speaker 3: listening to Joe NFL Coon Solomon just a few moments
37:57
Speaker 3: ago talking about trying to help the family. And it
38:00
Speaker 3: does help the family, it does. If she ever wonders,
38:04
Speaker 3: if you ever wonder, Joanna, you have no idea how
38:07
Speaker 3: much justice and resolution means. But dtr Klashevsky, I want
38:12
Speaker 3: to be clear about one thing. As a victim of
38:15
Speaker 3: violent crime myself, it changes you forever. You never quote
38:21
Speaker 3: get over it. It changes you. It just changes your DNA
38:25
Speaker 3: kind of. I've had people come up to me and say,
38:27
Speaker 3: you know, you're nothing like you used to be before
38:31
Speaker 3: Keith was murdered my fiance. I don't even remember that girl.
38:35
Speaker 3: Dr Klashevski, I don't even remember what they describe to
38:39
Speaker 3: me as how I was then and now.
38:42
Speaker 2: And affakes everything for the rest of your life.
38:45
Speaker 8: It absolutely does, And I think you really hit the
38:47
Speaker 8: nail on the head. You don't get over something like this.
38:51
Speaker 8: When I would work doing tree mill of folks who've
38:54
Speaker 8: been through terms of crime, you have to try to
38:56
Speaker 8: help them get pasted as well as they can. But
39:00
Speaker 8: you're absolutely right, you're fundamentally changed as a person after
39:03
Speaker 8: something like this.
39:05
Speaker 3: But step number one and at least moving forward with
39:09
Speaker 3: your life in some fashion, not the way you were before,
39:14
Speaker 3: but in some fashion. It's a resolution to what happened
39:18
Speaker 3: to the person you loved and you, Joanna FELCN Sullivan
39:22
Speaker 3: and you, Chief Brandon M. Graff and your department have
39:27
Speaker 3: given that to this child's family, and there are no
39:32
Speaker 3: words to thank you. Okay, one down, ten million to go, Goodbye.