Latest / Wake Up with Miya / Episode 218. RELOADED: Dr. Judd Burton — Bloodlines, Vampires, Nephilim & Witchcraft

Transcript

Episode 218. RELOADED: Dr. Judd Burton — Bloodlines, Vampires, Nephilim & Witchcraft · Wake Up with Miya

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: But blood oaths, the cacts, become such a key element
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: of that, and you see it in later manageable traditions.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: And in fact, the polytheistic religions of the world, there
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: were many of them, particularly early on, even if they
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: lost the practice, many of them literally had blood at
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the center of their ritual practice. And that often involves
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: blood sacrifice for humans. Now, that could be non-lethal. There
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: are certainly examples of this the world over, of bloodletting
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: as blood sacrifice. But not infrequently, it was actually the
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: practice of human sacrifice, whether that was the adult, supplicants,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: or children, which unfortunately continues to this day, although a
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: sort of naturalized facade.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: In like abortions?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Why, yes, exactly. All you have to do is look
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: at the statistics. You know, it's very clear that the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: cult of Molech is still very much alive in that
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: particular reincarnation.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Aloha and welcome to another show, guys. I'm beyond excited
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: to introduce my special guest today, Dr. Judd Burton. Dr.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Burton is an accomplished scholar whose expertise spans anthropology, Bible studies,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: ancient history, and esoteric subjects that most people don't dare explore.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: His work delves deep into the mysteries of the spiritual realm,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: ancient giants, the Nephilims, witchcraft, and even vampirism. Yes, you
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: heard that right. And not only is this going to
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: be an incredible conversation, but today marks a huge milestone
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: for the show, our hundredth episode. I want to take
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: a moment to thank each and every one of you
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: for being part of this journey. Your support, whether through subscribing, reviewing,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: or sharing, has made this possible. And I truly couldn't
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: have done it without you guys. Now, for this special episode,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I couldn't think of a more fitting guest than Dr. Burton.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: And we are going to dive deep into the world
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: of vampirism, uncovering the ancient lore and spiritual significance behind
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: these mysterious creatures, Dr. Burton has spent decades connecting the
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: dots between ancient civilizations, Bible accounts, hidden spiritual realms, and
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: trust me, you don't want to miss this. Before we
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: jump into this incredible conversation, don't forget to subscribe, review,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: share the podcast. And you can follow me on YouTube, Spotify, Apple,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: and wherever you listen to your podcasts. And for those
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: of you who want more exclusive content and early access
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: to episodes ad-free, you can find me on Patreon as well. Now,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: without further ado, let's welcome Dr. Judd Burton to the show.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I've been looking forward to having you on the show
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: for a while, and I'm excited to dive into your
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: research and your insights. So it's an honor to have
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: you here. So thank you so much for joining me.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I'm happy to do it.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Your work has always fascinated me, and I'm
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: sure our listeners are eager to learn more about your
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: work as well. Could you start by telling us a
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: little bit about yourself and what inspired you to write
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: The Interview with the Giant? I love that book. It's
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: really good.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Well, I am a historian and anthropologist by training.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I did my graduate work in anthropology and archaeology at
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Texas Tech University. So I have training across the cultural
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: side of anthropology, archaeology, ethnology, and linguistics. My doctoral work
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: was at the same institution And I ended up writing
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: a dissertation on Panaeus, which is Caesarea Philippi in the
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: New Testament, which is a site that I helped to
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: excavate in previous years. So I maintained an interest in
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the site and sort of revisited, reopened it during my
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: dissertation phase. I taught at colleges and universities 20 plus
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: years and felt God calling me to devote my research
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: time and, in fact, my teaching time to this idea
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: that it's sort of been blossoming forever. really since my
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: graduate school days, the Institute of Biblical Anthropology that I
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: teach all my classes through now. But the story behind
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Interview with the General, my interest in these topics is
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: really kind of long-standing. I grew up in a Christian
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: home and the Bible and And learning sort of went
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: hand in hand with my family, particularly under the auspices
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: of my maternal grandmother's watchful eye. She was the library
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: town that I grew up in, Merkle. And so that
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: was my babysitting after school. A lot of time was
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: spending those afternoons in the library. So I developed an
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: interest in the human past. specifically looking at it through
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: a biblical lens pretty early on. And because my grandmother
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: and my great aunt were not only students of the Bible,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: but students of prophecy, I was always sort of looking
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: at things through the supernatural lens anyway. So history and,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: and religion and mythology were, were watermarks in terms of
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: my interests from an early age. Um, and I was
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: always interested in the, the interplay between history and mythology.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: As a culture, Western society has sort of inherited the,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: the sharp demarcation between history and mythology. Um, which is
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: really kind of phenomenal of the enlightenment influence from the
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: 18th century. Um, but the fact of the matter is
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: as far back at time, you go, the blurrier that
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: line is between history and mythology. Um, and in fact,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: there are any number of examples that would prove that
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: the mythology, um, contains a, uh, at least a nugget
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: of truths in most cases. Um, We sort of butchered
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: that word in Western languages in particular and sort of
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: got away from the Greek root, mutas, which just literally
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: just means story. But we've turned it into a synonym
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: for a fable or a fallacy, which it's not. And
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: so I became interested in these things fairly early on.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: But The story behind Interview with the Giant in particular
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: stems from my dissertation work on Penaeus, which is at
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: the foot of Mount Hermon. And I'm sure your audience
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: will be familiar with the Genesis 6 material and the
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: accompanying Enoch material about the incursion of the Watchers on
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Mount Hermon. The fact of the matter was, is that
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: as I did my dissertation research, I kept running across
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: these questions that I didn't really, I thought they were valuable.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: So I would write them down and I would write
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: little culture sketches on, you know, towards answering those questions.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: And I sort of joked in the past that the
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: interview with the giant It's sort of the residue of
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: my dissertation because I was sort of writing it while
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: I was writing my dissertation as if I wasn't busy
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: enough to begin with doing the dissertation work. I had
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: this collection of essays that was piling up on my desk.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: And that's the book that eventually became Atterbury with a Joint. So, yeah,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: in a nutshell, that's a little bit about my background.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: and how I became interested in the topics that people
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: have come to follow me for. Yeah.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: You mentioned ethno-history. What is ethno-history and how does that,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: I guess, how does that Help us to understand the
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: content of the Nephilim and the Watchers.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Well, ethno-history is a methodological tool that anthropologists have employed
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: for decades now. As an addendum to my previous comments,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: one of the things that that influenced me in grad
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: school was the utilization of anthropology to glean historical data.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: And I've seen largely ancient and classical historians do this.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: People like Moses Finley wrote a book called The World
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: of Odysseus in which he used anthropology to look at
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the Homeric epics and the Homeric world. um, Ward Fowler
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: was another guy who did kind of the same thing
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: with Roman religion and Roman, Roman mythology. Um, but I
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: really didn't see particularly with regard to the watchers of
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the journals, which were a matter of no small debate
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: for biblical scholars and historians. Um, I thought that it
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: would be valuable to apply that kind of methodology to
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  Speaker 1: the problem of giants. And so that's where ethno-history came
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: into the picture. Ethno-history is kind of a salvage history.
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  Speaker 1: It's a method that anthropologists typically have used to repair
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  Speaker 1: or build, rather, a culture narrative or culture history on
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  Speaker 1: a society that's either disappeared or is on the verge
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: of disappearing. And so every possible bit of cultural minutia,
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  Speaker 1: whether it's focal or genealogy or music or oral tradition or...
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  Speaker 1: you know, art, maps, just basically everything that can be
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  Speaker 1: salvaged is used to build this culture and narrative. And
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  Speaker 1: so that's really kind of the main methodological aim that
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  Speaker 1: I had in putting the book together. But Ethnohistory, as
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  Speaker 1: I've pointed out, it's a tool that's been used by
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  Speaker 1: anthropologists really since the 60s and the 70s to recover
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  Speaker 1: as much as possible about either a race or rather
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  Speaker 1: a culture that's recently disappeared or one that's on the
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  Speaker 1: verge of disappearing. Interesting.
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  Speaker 2: You also wrote about the pact between watchers and human females.
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  Speaker 2: That's something I recently heard about. from actually Tim Albarino.
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  Speaker 2: I went to the Costa Rica, the blurry creatures with
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: your buddies, your buddies. Yes. So I went to the,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: their conference that they had in Costa Rica this past,
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  Speaker 2: I guess earlier this year and him talked about that.
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  Speaker 2: And that's the first time I heard about this path
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  Speaker 2: between the watchers and human females and their, I guess
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: their fathers. Could you maybe talk a little bit about that?
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  Speaker 1: Certainly. Well, implicit in that, in general, is the pact
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  Speaker 1: that they make with humanity, this exchange of occult and
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  Speaker 1: practical sciences for genetic access to females. In the apocryphal literature,
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  Speaker 1: the fate of those women is basically described as, describes
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: them as becoming Saurians. There's a chapter in the updated
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  Speaker 1: version of the interview with John called The Primal Witch
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  Speaker 1: that explicates this a little bit. But in essence, they
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: were amongst the first witches. And the Sauron is a
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  Speaker 1: mythological typology that's that's pretty common throughout the Mediterranean and
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  Speaker 1: the ancient Near Eastern world. And even globally, you could
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  Speaker 1: say that they're analogs to the Sirens. But typically, they
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: have talon-like... Something happened that changed these women not just spiritually,
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  Speaker 1: but also to a degree physically. So there's something preternatural
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  Speaker 1: happening because you've got both a supernatural and a physical transformation.
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  Speaker 1: But the Sirens are often described as having bird-like talons
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: for feet. In some cases, they have wings. In other cases,
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  Speaker 1: they don't. In some instances, they're described almost as kind
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: of mermaid. So there seem to be varieties of them,
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  Speaker 1: but the avian variation seems to be the more common one.
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  Speaker 1: The imagery that we have of Lilith, the Lilu or
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Lilitu in Mesopotamian mythology is very reminiscent of that. The
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Strix in Roman mythology and the Lamia in Greek mythology
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  Speaker 1: would all be variations on this theme. but clearly there
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: was a blood pact that was made and of course
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: how is this relevant and pertinent for believers today well
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: this is sort of the not to use a pun
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: but the genesis of that part of the fall and
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  Speaker 1: it forms the context for people learning the sort of knowledge, witchcraft,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: if you will, or any number of appellations that we
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: can give to it. But that's basically what it is.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: And it comes from the direct tutelage from one of
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: these fallen Elohim. In the case of the pre-flood world,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: that would be the watchers and the first generation of giants,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the Nephilim, and then the spirits of those disembodied Nephilim
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: in the post-flood world. So the blood oath, the pact,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: becomes such a key element of that. And you see
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: it in later magical traditions. And in fact, the The
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: polytheistic religions of the world, there were many of them,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: particularly early on, even if they lost the practice, many
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: of them literally had blood at the center of their
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: ritual practice. And that often involved blood sacrifice from humans. Now,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: that could be non-lethal. There are certainly examples of this
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: the world over, of bloodletting as blood sacrifice. But not infrequently,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: it was actually the practice of human sacrifice, whether that
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: was the dispatchment of adults, supplicants, or children. Wow. unfortunately
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: continues to this day, although under a sort of naturalized facade.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: In like abortions?
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Boy, yes, exactly. I mean, all you have to do
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: is look at the statistics. And, you know, it's very
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: clear that the cult of Moloch is still very much
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: alive in that particular incarnation. Yeah.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: So did these Nephilim or giants or fallen angels, did
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: they make a blood pact with the humans for specific
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: technology and knowledge maybe? Is that what it is?
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that has to be what it is. What's interesting
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: about the... As far as I'm concerned, the timing of
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the arrival of the Watchers, I'm always trying to see
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: what's possible in terms of lining the biblical timeline up
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: with with what I've learned in my own training. But
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: it seems to me that the likely time for the
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: arrival of the Watchers would have been in the Epipaleolithic,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: which is towards the end of the Paleolithic period going
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: into the Mesolithic period. What's interesting about this time now,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: so we're talking between 15,000 and 12,000 BC. What's interesting
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: about this town now is that archaeologically, we're having to
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: rewrite history, although it's a slow process, a slow transition.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: We're having to acknowledge that civilization, that is city-state building,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: that type of social organization, happened thousands of years earlier
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: than the Sumerians or the Egyptians or even the Indus
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: River Valley civilization, the Harappans, which all emerged in the
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: 4th millennium BC. We now know with earlier sites, and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: this is not... and alluvian speculations based on archaeological data
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: from numerous sites. We know from places like Tel Esotam,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: which is prehistoric Jericho in Israel, that phase of the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: site dates back to the mid-10th millennium BC. It was
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: clearly a city at that time. We know that because
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: of the the watchtowers and the layout of the city
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: that were excavated. They were growing grain outside the city walls.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Other Natufian sites in the region, like Tell Caramel in Syria,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: and of course the groundbreaking discovery of sites like Gobekli Tepe,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Karahan Tepe, and even places like Chateau Hayek, all belie
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: this kind of social organization at the city-state level. Before this,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: virtually all of humanity were hunter-gatherers and horticulturalists of one
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: sort or another. And so there's a 90-degree angle change
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: in the cultural trajectory of humanity at this time on
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: typically the only time that that happens is when a
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: culture or society is acted upon drastically from a, a,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I'm just talking about human history. The only time that
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: you see those kinds of abrupt changes, irreparable changes, or
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: when one society is acted upon another society that is
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: typically technologically more advanced, um, and, and oftentimes, um, epidemiologically
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: outfitted to weather more diseases than the people that they
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: come into contact with. And I'll speak to this in
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: just a moment, but your question was, was there a
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: specific set of skills that were taught by the Watchers?
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: I think this is explicated fairly well in First Enoch,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: where Basically, each of the Watchers specializes in a task,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: whether that's something natural like charting the movements of the
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: stars or the weather or something occult like witchcrafts or
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: enchantments or those sorts of things. there's that combination, but what,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: in general, what they taught were the rudiments of what
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: we would call civilized forms of city-state dwelling, with transition
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: from nomadic and semi-nomadic lifestyle to more sedentary lifestyle, speaking
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: in terms of social organization. So the emergence of what
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: we would call cities coincides with, what I believe the
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: timing of the arrival of the Watchers and the beginning
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: of that first generation of Nephilim in the pre-slug wars.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: The other thing that makes me think that this is
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: timed with the Mesolithic Neolithic revolution which is what archaeologists
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: have typically called this transition. Although we know far more
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: about it archaeologically than we do when that title was
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: first given by the archaeologists Gerd Gord and Charles. But
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: there are events in the geological history of the planet
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: that occur that made me think that this is the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: time because archaeologists not just the Bible, but epics from
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: around the world and oral traditions from around the world
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: all speak of a great deluge or flood that came
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: because of the wickedness that was on the earth. Um,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: and just quantitatively, that's, that's probably one of the more common, uh,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: near perennial myths in the world is the flood epic. Uh,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: There's a period, a geological period, set within all of
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: this called the Younger Dryas, which was hallmarked by all
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: kinds of cataclysmic events. There were lots of weird things
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: taking place, just from a scientific, purely natural perspective, where
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: these huge coronal mass ejections that are coming from the
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: sun at this time They're breaking through the Van Allen
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: belts and our protective layers. We know this, and we
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: know that there is such intensity in some places because
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: archaeologists can actually recover the vitrified rock. It was so
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: intense that it was actually melting rock on the surface
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: of the planet in places. There's rock art from the
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: period from around the world that record the patterns. hitting
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the ionosphere, you know, we just had this big burst,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: you know, that had these, caused these brilliant, you know,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: aurora borealis displays that reached as far south as Texas
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: this time. I had some friends send me some pictures
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: the other month. And so, but these bursts during the
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: younger dross were so intense that the patterns were could
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: be seen from the same latitudes around the world. We
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: also know that there were periods of flash freezing and
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: also heavy rainfall during this period as well. And you
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: add all this to the rising sea levels from glacial melts,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: then you've got the recipe for a catastrophic flood that's
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: happening piecemeal literally around the world. Um, and again, this is,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: as I said, this is something that's, that made such
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: a huge impact on humanity that it burned itself into
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: our collective cultural memory. Um, it coincides with, with Plato's
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: account of the destruction of Atlantis, uh, his will, um,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: in Timaeus and Critianus, where he talks about the, you know, 9,000
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: years before his forebearer, Solon, which would have been about 9,600 BC,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: about the same time when you see the climax of
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: all of these catastrophic events and the younger Darius. And
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I think what we're looking at here is the flood
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: that's recorded in the And the destruction would have included
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the destruction of a lot of this pre-flood civilization so
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: that we only have remnants of it in places like
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Tel Karamel and prehistoric Jericho and Quebec with Tepe and
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Karahan Tepe and Niroli Chari and a lot of the
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: sites in southeastern Turkey in particular. So they're There's so
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: much evidence that piles up on the geological side, on
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: the archaeological side, that when you add the biblical narrative
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: to Mamani's events, all seem to make the most sense
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: during this mesolithic phase of human history when these changes
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: are taking place.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: As a footnote to that, I would add that one
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: of the things that that we can chart at this
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: time also is the decrease in the population of megafauna that.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: These peoples depended on for meat. The big elephantine creatures
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: like the mammoth and the mastodon, but also not just
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: food animals, but also predator animals like the short-faced bear
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: in North America, dire wolves, these huge quadrupedal species. most
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: scholars have historically written this off as being due to
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: overhunting by human societies. And I think the overhunting hypothesis
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: is a valid one, but I think it doesn't account
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: for all of the agency. I think when you factor
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: in the the caloric intake that would have been necessary
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: to sustain the giants, these huge, you know, ancient gigantic hominids,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: then that begins to take on a huge reality as well.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: So there's actually a scientific hypothesis. I think it's called
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: the unknown agent hypothesis. something to that effect. Um, it
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: says that we still don't know, really don't know these
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: final factors that contributed to the demise of the megafaunal species. Um,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I think the Bible answers that question. I think it
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: answers that question in the form of, of the bloodlust
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: of the Nephilim. Um, And again, just from a scientific perspective,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: the caloric intake that would have been necessary to sustain them.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: So there are a lot of things that are taking
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: place at this time that we can observe archaeologically. But
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: the change in the way that humans began to socially
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: organize them and the skill set that they were utilizing
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: is monumental in its shift. Because for, you know, again,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: arguably millions of years, we were hunter-gatherers and horticulturalists. And
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: historically speaking, in the blink of an eye, now there's
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: this new option. And there are certainly still peoples that
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: were living nomadically and living a kind of Stone Age lifestyle.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: But this new city-based dwelling. I know it was some
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: interest that the Hebrew word ir for watcher or angel
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: can also mean city or dwelling place in Hebrew and Aramaic.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Irim and irim are those words, plural. So that connection
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: between those two concepts is a long-standing one in the
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: ancient Near Eastern world. Not by accident, I'll posit. So yeah,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: there's definitely the specific skill set and it has to
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: come from this outside source. And I don't think, I
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: think we have to turn to the supernatural to find
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: the answer to that question. Because there aren't other human
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: societies on the planet that could have caused that sort
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: of change on another population. Jared Diamond wrote a really
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: interesting book called Guns, Germs, and Steel back in the
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: late 90s. I read it when I was in graduate
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: school for the first time, but I really didn't begin
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: to think about the sort of... that he was aligned
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to human history until I started to revisit the issue
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: of the Jones and the Watchers and their impact on humanity.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: And Diamond is an interesting fellow. I met him at
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: a conference once. He's not a believer that I know of.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: He's strictly an evolutionist. But what I think is valuable
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: about this world history that he wrote is the way
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: that he approached it. The climax of the story is
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: the clash between the Spanish under Pizarro and the Inca
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: under Atahualpa in Peru in the early 1500s. And he
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: argues that there were There were things set in motion
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: thousands of years before that event that set people up
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in the old world to be in a position to
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: so drastically overpower and change peoples in the new world.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: And they stem from things like geography and epidemiology. What
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I mean by that is the continents... And Eurasia, in
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: other words, is one big continent. It's long from east
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: to west. What that means is that these ideas that
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: the Watchers planted, civilization, agriculture, and metallurgy, and things like that,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: have an easier route to travel from east to west.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: They had similar climates and landforms to go over. In
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: the Americas, the continents are long north to south. which
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: meant that you had a great variety of climate and landforms,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: basically everything that the planet has to offer for civilization
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: to spread from. And so from Mesoamerica, where it emerges first,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: it has a very difficult time moving north and south.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: And it was much slower than in the old world.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: And so there were thousands of years of this adoption
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: of technology and metallurgy and agriculture. Wow. that built and
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: built and built over the millennia in Eurasia. People in
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: the old world were also raising herd animals like cattle,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: sheep and pigs and things like that. And so particularly
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: with the bovine animals, they were exposed to diseases like
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: anthrax and smallpox. And so there were populations that developed
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: greater immunity for it. And of course, the the plague,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the Black Death in the 14th century, cold the human
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: population a little bit so that you had the stronger
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: people surviving. And then you had the technology of steel,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: the combination of iron and carbon. And gunpowder, and firearms.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Did you add to that? And it becomes a recipe
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: for disaster and extreme cultural change in the new world.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: So that these conditions were set up millennia before Pizarro
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: and Atahualpa meet in Peru while in the 1530s. So
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: people in the New World didn't have herd animals. The
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: closest thing they had were like llamas and alpacas. So
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: they were particularly hit hard by diseases like smallpox. Whacked
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: out millions of people, did a lot of the work.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: And the military depredations of the Spanish who were fresh
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: off of running the Moors out of Spain, At the time,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: we're just militarily pugilistic and set on our conquest. You
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: add all of that together, and it's a recipe for
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: not only disaster for peoples in the New World, but
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: also irreparable cultural change, cultural damage. What hit me about
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: that and why I think it's pertinent to this discussion
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: of the Watchers and their influence on human culture is
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: that those proximal issues that set the Spanish up and
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: by proxy, you know, the French, the Dutch, the English,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: the big imperial powers to have such a hold on
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: the Americas and cause irreparable change to those cultures. As
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I said, the only source that you can look to
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: for that level of change in the Mesolithic, Neolithic period
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: when I believe that the Watchers arrived in Earth. You
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: can't look at other human populations because, as I said,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: most humans were hunter-gatherers. Some were vocalists, but mostly hunter-gatherers.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: The only place that you can look is to the
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: supernatural for that degree of change. And I think the agency,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: the clearest agency is that of of the Watchers to
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: begin with, and then their Nephilim progeny after that. So
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: this is the cultural context for that skill set being
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: bequeathed to humanity through this horrendous bloodbath. Interesting. Yeah.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Um, Younger Dryas you mentioned, that's, isn't that like 10
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: to 12,000 years before? Rather than the Bible thinks of 6,000
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: years ago, humans. It's like, um, Graham Hancock.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, yeah. Um, Hancock and, and, um, Randall, Randall
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: or Royal Carlson, I think, done a lot of work
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: towards that. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. Dr. Robert Shock has
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: also done some work in that area too. Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: It's incredible. Yeah. I mean, there are these, you know,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: most of these guys are not willing to ascribe supernatural
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: agency to the church. Right. Yeah.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: That human change. What's the problem? You know, I've laid
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: out the problem with that. in our interview year it began,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: is that there's no human agency that could have caused
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: that level of change at the town. Even in looking
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: at examples like the clash between the imperial powers in
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: the 16th century and the new world, the Spanish and
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: the native populations, even the advantages that the Spanish held
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: were still epiphenomenal of the importance of watchers. Agriculture, technology,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: city buildings, those concepts were seeded by the watchers during
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: that period.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Interesting. That's so cool. And you talked about this change
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: in the atmosphere, things like that. You know, Ev Conkrin,
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you've heard of him, He talks
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: about that as well. I think he just retired. He
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: was a university scholar that talks about the change during
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: that time where the big changes that you said that
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: happened in the sky, which people saw from all over
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: the continent. And he talks about this with the drawings
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: on the wall, things like that, that they drew. So, yeah.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: So he talked about that. He has a book called
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: The Case of the Turquoise Sun. He thinks that before,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: I guess, some kind of catastrophic thing that happened, the
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: sun was actually like a turquoise or a purple color,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: not the color that it is now. But yeah, very interesting. Yes, very,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: very interesting. And also, giants. It's weird how all over
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: different continents... They talk about giants. Japan has giants. They
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: call them oni, and they actually eat humans. There's places
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: in Japan that's like... My family is from the northern
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: part of Japan, Hokkaido. And they have a place called Noboribetsu.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: It's an onsen, which is hot springs there. So they
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: have a town there called... It's called Jikokudani, which is
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: like a hell valley. Because it actually has the steams
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: that's coming out of the volcano. And the ground there
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: is soft in certain spots. And it bubbles. You can
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: see it bubbling. And it has that stench of sulfur.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Salt work. Yep.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: It's funny that they have this all across the world.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Giant. Yeah, I mean, you're hard-pressed to find a place
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: that doesn't have stories about Jones. I'm asked frequently about
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: evidence for Jones, and my response is always, what sort
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: of evidence do you want? Because it's really sort of
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: hiding in plain sight. Yeah. really three axes of evidence.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: There's the mythological, which is typically peripheralized by mainstream academia. That,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: of course, is not just myths that are recorded in
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: epics like Gilgamesh and the Egyptian stuff, but all tradition.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: We have this long-standing bias in the West about about
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: written versus oral tradition. Oral tradition, it's not as accurate
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: as writing, you know, or whatever. Yeah, but there are
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: examples in oral tradition that are extremely accurate. The Anasazi
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: in the American Southwest were adept astronomers, and they transmitted
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: their sciences orally so accurately that they could predict celestial
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: events that wouldn't happen for four or five generations, and
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: they did it so well that when those later generations emerged,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: they knew exactly where and when to look for those things.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: The ancient Hebrews were an oral tradition long before they
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: even developed writing, and had the same, the kind of
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: scribal redundancies that developed in their written culture were residues
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: of their oral culture. The The Druids in the British
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Isles had to memorize thousands upon thousands of these three-line strains.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: So oral tradition requires a different kind of months. Your
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: mind gets wired in a different way so that memorization
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: is just sort of second nature. So there are plenty
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: of examples of oral tradition being thoroughly accurate. The second
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: axis of evidence would be historical, those based on written
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: records and documents. You certainly have accounts from that going
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: back to antiquity. Now, admittedly, the third axis, the material evidence,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: what we might call archaeological or artifact or evidence, is
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: probably the sparsest, but it does exist. Our fossil record
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: is replete with gigantic hominids that we're still trying to
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: You know, we think that the science has settled on
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: the taxonomy of these things. Well, it's not, because a
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: lot of those finds are, those paleo-anthropological finds are fragmentary.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: We don't have complete skeletons for those things. Certainly, we
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: have the remnants of the influence of John's culture on
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: humanity and our monuments and things like that. So, yeah. yeah,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: the evidence is all over the world. People just need
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: to put aside, in many cases, some of their preconceived
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: notions about things like myth and oral tradition and know
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: that the way that history is supposed to work is
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: that when better evidence comes along and either augments or
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Or changes the narrative, then that should decide and define
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: where that narrative goes. But unfortunately, that's not how. it
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: works in the world. It's sized by consensus these days.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: You're exactly right. Whether you're talking about East Asia, Central Asia,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Southern Asia, Europe, Africa, the Americas, There's not a place
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: you can go in the world that doesn't have some
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: tradition about giants. Yeah, it's incredible.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: They even name places in Japan, you know, that's something
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: to do with giants or demons or devil, hell, things
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: like that. That's got to make you think. You had
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: also mentioned the first vampires were Nephilim and they drank blood,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: I guess because they're more cannibalistic or they became cannibalistic.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: And you mentioned that there's something special about the blood.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: In fact, you know, the Bible speaks of against drinking
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: blood and we're supposed to drain the blood of the
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: animals before we eat it.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The Levitical prescription of the blood is the life. Yeah.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Vampirism, like so many occurrences in modern what we
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: might call folkloric monsters or folkloric creatures also has its
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: origins in the pre-flood world. And I had not considered
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: that until I started. I was taking a medieval history class,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: my first upper-level history class at Hardin-Simmons University, and I
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: had decided to write my paper on medieval vampirism. So
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: sort of outside the scope of what we're talking about
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: now in terms of origins. But the first book that
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: I consulted was Monty B. Summers, The Vampire is Kith
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: and Kin, which is an excellent, worthwhile volume. I would
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: recommend to people. But Summers is really the first person
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: to connect vampires to the pre-flood world. And his preparatory
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: remarks is just a few sentences. But he makes a
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: clear connection with the account in Enoch, specifically the judgment
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: that's handed down to the Nephilim. Now, again, from the
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: same accounts, we know that they were bloodthirsty, that they
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: consumed the resources of humanity, and then they began to
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: kill humans themselves and eat them and drink their blood.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: They even turned on themselves and war against each other
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: and practiced cannibalism. So, Those vampiric qualities were definitely already
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: there when they were in physical form. And when they're
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: stripped of their bodies in the flood, the judgment that's
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: handed down to them is that they'll be evil spirits,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: unclean spirits on the earth, and that they would hamper
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: humanity and always be thirsting and hungry, but never able
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: to sate their physical desires. And it's this This passage
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: that Summers connected to the origins of vampires, so from
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: a biblical perspective, that should be cause for raised eyebrows
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: that were being given the demonic roots of vampirism right there.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: And again, that word vampire is very, you know, it
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: carries a lot of baggage with it. And usually we
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: think of the cinematic or literary vampire the suave European nobleman,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: classic fangs. To understand the vampire, Christians need to strip
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: the cinematic veneer from the vampire. Take the Hollywood out
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: of it. Take the Twilight and the True Blood. You
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: have to take all that. Even the Victorian stuff, like
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Polidori's The Vampire and the novel Dracula. to an extent.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: You have to strip that stuff away to understand the
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: demonic roots of the vampire and that its occurrence in
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: reality is evinced by these experiences that are recorded in
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: people's folklore and written records in many instances. And even
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the Bible makes reference to vampirism, which in and of
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: itself is a terrible parody of what Christ offers. Christ
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: offers a real eternal life. Christ offers his blood as
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: a sacrifice. The vampiric spirit takes fluid. It offers a
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: counterfeit immortality, as does the entire demonic realm. So, Getting
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: back to biblical references, actually references in canon scripture, Isaiah
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: chapter 34 makes reference to the Lilith. He was a
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: night demon that drank the blood and ate the flesh
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: of children. Um, She's referenced not only there, but also
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: in Psalms in a number of places. The other vampire
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: that's specifically referenced in the Bible is the Eleuka in
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Proverbs 31, which is generally translated as horse leech. But
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: the Eleuka was actually a shape-shifting vampire in ancient Near
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Eastern tradition that morphed in that it comes from the
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: the middle part there, look, which would be LK because
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: there were no vowels in Hebrew, um, is also to
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: be found in, um, one of the ethnic designations that's
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: outlined in the Bible would be on Malakites. Amalek, who
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: was a descendant of Esau, that LK is in that word.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: In fact, um, Amalekim means the blood drinkers or the
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: blood lickers. And they're one of the first actually they
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: are the first obstacle to the ancient Hebrews once they're
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: reentering Canaan to recalibrate. And there's a hefty judgment placed
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: against the Amalekites so that they They're supposed to be
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: destroyed down to the last man, organ, and child. All
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: of their livestock is completed so that there's an ever
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: war that's supposed to exist between the Hebrews and the Amalekites.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: Vampires do exist. Certainly we have a profusion of different
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: kinds of vampires that occur in the world world. but
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: they can all be traced back to the prequel worlds.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: Wow. So you think that there's reason to believe that
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: these creatures still exist today?
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, certainly. I mean, I think if you look at, well,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was just earlier this year, there was
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: an instance of vampirism that broke out on the Philippines.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: The Philippines, Filipino lore, has a kind of willow creature
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: that's able to detach its upper torso from the rest
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: of its body. There were sightings of this creature earlier
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: this year. And then, of course, you have people who
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: are demonized themselves who actually take part in virtual blood drinking.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Some vampirologists call these people vampiroids. They're mimicking, but I
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: think they're genuine vampires too because there's a demonic influence
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: there and this sort of ritual blood drinking also takes
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: place in the upper echelons of society you know with
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: all the things that are coming out about you know
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: the Hollywood crowd and the consumption of adrenochrome derived from
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: child sacrifice, whether it's child sacrifice or from the abortion industry.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: That is a kind of vampirism. To answer your question, yes,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: it's still very much part of the world today, but
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: people typically don't want to classify it as such, much
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: less give it the time of day and consider it.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: So they, those people, they consume the blood because the
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: blood is something special? Is that where your soul is?
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: There's a sacrality. The sacrality of blood is a human universal.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Virtually every culture understood this. The ancient Hebrews did or
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't have written been directed to write so prolifically
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: about it. And of course, its significance to believers is
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: evident in the sacrifice that the cross made. But if
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: you look at cultures, the the acknowledgement that there's not,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: that it's not just a natural substance. Yes, it naturally
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: sustains life, but there's a supernatural component to blood. It's
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: also a perennial feature of human culture. Um, the, um,
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: the ancient Maya who, um, prolifically practice human sacrifice, um,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: In fact, that was the main reason why Mayan city-states
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: warred against each other was to take captives to offer
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: to their gods. They called blood the food of the gods.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: They believed that this actually sustained their gods. Of course,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: there are iterations of this all around the planet. So
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: it was understood by prehistoric and ancient peoples as a
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: given that there were that blood was something other than
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: just a natural substance, that it had these supernatural qualities
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: to it.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: Interesting. The name of one watcher in particular seems to
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: reoccur in your research, Azazel.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: Was he some kind of chief of the fallen angels
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: or something like that?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, he was probably. He's one of the chiefs. of
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: these cavils or watchers. Arguably, he was Semyon's lieutenant. Certainly,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: we know that Azazel is probably the most culpable of
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: the watcher angels because his punishment seems to be the
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: most severe. Um, he's described as having being responsible for
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: all sin. He's, he's responsible for a great deal of corruption. Um,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: so much so that his name was preserved in the, um,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: atonement sacrifice, uh, in the old testaments. Oh, you know,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: we just got through celebrating Yom Kippur this weekend. Um,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: so this is on a lot of people's minds at
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: this point. Now, um, The Azazel goat, which was part
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: of the sacrifice, was not actually a sacrifice to Azazel.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: This was just all of the sins of the tribe
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: were put onto the goat and then either turned out
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: into the wilderness, which was the haunt of demons in
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: Hebrew radiology, or he was bound, the goat was bound,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: as Azazel was in the Book of Enoch, and then
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: tossed over the edge of a cliff or a chasm.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's not that they were worshiping Azazel, but
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: the Azazel goat became the scapegoat for all Nisim. Now,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: where that becomes pertinent from our research is in the
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: continuation of the worship of Azazel, which I argue in
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: not only Interview with the Giant and in my book Panaeus,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: but in my dissertation, that the cult of Pan, the
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: goat god Pan, for which Panaeus gets its name, was
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: simply a continuation of the reverence of Azazel and his
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: incarnations in various goat gods, such as the Amorite and
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Babylonian deities, the people of the region like Maru, and
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: the Assyrian Benu. Adzaga was another Amorite goat deity that
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: was worshipped in the region. And, of course, Ods and Uds,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: and the Hebrew Sherin, which were the equivalent of the
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Greek satyrs. Consequently, which were mentioned in conjunction with Lilith
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: in that passage in Isaiah, when I was talking about Um,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: so it seems to me that there's a clear legacy
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: from Azazel, well, all the way down to, or arguably
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: the present day, even though he's in prisons, um, these
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: watchers are still sort of have a measure of control
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: the same way that, uh, a crime Lord that's been
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: in prison is still controlling his, his drug empire from prison. Um, But, yeah,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: Azazel has been a central figure in my researches.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Is Azazel... He's not the Satan, is he?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: The Satan? No.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: It's like his right-hand man, maybe?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's... At least he was the right-hand of
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: the watcher, Shimyazo. But because... goats were typically associated with
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: the left-hand path. Well, the satanic, um, and these hooves
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: and horns creatures and deities, uh, particularly in Europe, but
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: really the world over became a kind of, of easy analog, uh,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: for the imagery of Satan. And so the, the, uh,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: the satyrs of Greek mythology and the fauns of Roman
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: mythology and the pucks or Celtic mythology and their analogs
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: around the world, you know, Cocapelli in the American Southwest,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: they all became analogs for Satan in a way. And
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: so that's where that goat imagery comes that's connected with
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: and comes from.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Do we know Satan's name? It's not Azazel. Who is he?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Well, that is an excellent question. Satan, and this is
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: a topic that we batted around on Iron and Myth before.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: Satan in the Old Testament is a title. It's a
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: legal title. position, the accuser or the adversary, the Greek
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: diabolos is used in the New Testament, which basically means
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: the same thing. There's a possibility that this is a
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: rotating position, that Satan's seat, as it were, He's thrown
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: on earth and moves from place to place depending on
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: what geographical principality is in control. If that's the case,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: at one time it was Babylon. Another time it was
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: Rome during the time of Christ. And so the possibility
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: exists that there are different fallen Elohim that fill the
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: same position. But Satan becomes such a solidified figure in
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: the New Testament that the other possibility seems more probable
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: that it's been one entity since the beginning. In the end,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: I tend to go with it being a singular entity.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: So going all the way back to the Makash, the
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: serpent and the guard is the entity that we're dealing with.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: But I'm not averse to the possibility. It's one of
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: those questions that I'm looking forward to having answered in heaven.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: But I tend to think that it's one entity, but
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: there is some linguistic and historical way to worry to
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: account for the possibility that it's a rotating title. Interesting.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: I never heard that before.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Derek Gilbert and Doug Vandoren and Brian Goddard and
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: myself did an episode on Iron and Ness on that
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: very topic. Wow. Wow.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Wow. I have to watch that one. That's pretty cool.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: So despite the loss of their physical bodies, the Nephilim's,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: is there reason to believe that the giant spirit continues today?
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: There's ample reason. In fact, the ethnogenesis of demonic culture
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: really begins in the pre-blood world. If we're to look
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: at the nature of Jesus' ministry and his interaction with
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: demons and the the rate of occurrence of those encounters
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: in Upper Galilee and the Golan region of Israel, and
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: taking into account the actual words that are used in
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: the New Testament, one of them prolifically being one clean spirit,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: which is the same designation that's given to the spirits
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: of Lamephalum, the disembodied spirits of the north. So I
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: think this was understood by the Second Temple Jewish mind.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: This was the origin of deniers. They had angelic pedigree,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: but they were not the same thing as the fallen watchers,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: fallen angels. Now, they could be designated as Elohim, but again,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: as I've pointed out on any number of shows, this
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: is a taxonomy that we're still fleshing out right now.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: But the demons seem to be something very distinct from
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: the fallen angels, the watchers. And I think that Jesus'
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: ministry and the location of his ministry bears this out
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: because a lot of it is taking place, as I said,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: in the Golan Heights, in Galilee, in the Old Testament.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: right at the foot of Mount Hermon. You know, he
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: makes these statements, it says, But the villages of Galilee
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: see a lot of his ministry, and a lot of
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: his ministry is dealing with demons. But because they've, for
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: lack of a, if you'll pardon the vernacular, they've been
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: around in that vicinity, trying to thwart all of the
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: plans that God had. humanity, namely the arrival of the South. Yeah.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to keep you longer than I
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: have to. I'm so sorry, but I know I've taken
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: up a lot of your time and I really appreciate it.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Happy to do it.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Where can people find you and your work and your book?
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: Probably the first place people can go is burtonbeyond.net. and
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: you'll find links to the Institute of Biblical Anthropology there,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: and people can find, if they want to take courses
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: with me, they can do that. There are also links
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: to my bookstore there. People can follow me on Facebook.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: I'm on X. I'm on YouTube. I've got a Gab account,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: and I'm about to open a Rumble account, too, and
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: Everybody wants me to do my own podcast, so I'm
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: probably going to launch into that in the near future
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: in a kind of teaching format. I'll probably have some
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: guests on from time to time, but mainly a teaching podcast.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: But in a nutshell, that's how people can follow my work. Awesome.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you again. Thank you so much, Dr. Judd Burton Muir,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: for joining us today on this show. Not every day
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: that we can explore such ancient mysteries. with someone who's
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: dedicated so much of their life understanding the spiritual and
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: historical origins.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: Of our world.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: So I really deeply appreciate your time and your passion
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: that you bring to your research. Thank you again for
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: being here. I can have you back.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: My pleasure, Tiffany.