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BUTLER, SALENA ZITO & THE SHOT THAT CHANGED AN ELECTION · The Rogue Recap with Lynda

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: This is the Rogue Recap with Linda McLaughlin. She's unfiltered, unforgiving,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: and understandably annoyed by everyone. Make sure you like and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: subscribe to her a podcast and follow her on x
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: at the Rogue Recap.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, it's Lenda McLachlin of The Rogue Recap. Super
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: stoked tonight to be here with my dear friend and colleague,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Selena Zito. Today is the release day of her book, Butler.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: We have all been waiting for it. I've been waiting
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: for it because I knew she was writing it back
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: in December when she let me in on a little
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: secret and I was like, I have to wait how
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: much longer for this? So we're super excited. The full
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: title just I don't want to you know, jip anybody.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: It's the untold story of the near assassination of Donald
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Trump and the fight for America's heartland. So Selena, so
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: excited to have you here. I mean, what a day
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: for you, right, I guess you've been NonStop.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: I'm so excited to be here with you because there's
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: nothing better than be able to do good storytelling with
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: someone that you're super comfortable with, that you know and
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: you can be chill with and I suspect your audience
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: is the same way. And so this is an honor
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: So I think the one thing that I would ask you,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously you know I've been I know your
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: story of the day of Butler and just being so
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: close to the president and the proximity. And I know
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: your daughters. Also, you know a photojournalist, she's in our business.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Like you guys get it. And I think when when
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: you become a part of news and you are the
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: news that you're typically just reporting on, it's a very
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: different thing.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, please, yeah, absolutely, So I should backtrack a little
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: bit when when I became a reporter, nobody knew who
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: a local reporter was, right nobody. I love that anonymity, right,
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: that I could be just their report of story. Go
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: do my job and file my story and do my job.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: I do not get in the business really like with this,
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: with this expectation of attention, right, But that's what the
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: business morphed into. And for people to see and read
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: and feel your stories, you have to be able to
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: talk about them in a meaningful and authentic way. And
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: so when you are a reporter and you find yourself
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: in the middle, like you always want to not be
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: in the store. I make sure I'm not even in
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: the photo, you know, if there's people taking photos, I'll
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: just I'll be just like Homer Simpson, like like, don't
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: get me in the photo. I'm not the story. And
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: so that day started off, you know, like a typical day.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: When you're a reporter, you have no level of expectation
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: that anything's going to go as planned. Nonetheless, you have
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: to have a plan, and so my plan was to
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: interview the president. Chris Losovito, a campaign had told me,
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: you've got five minutes with the president before the rally. Now,
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: I hadn't interviewed President Trump since Latroe, Pennsylvania in twenty twenty.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Between that time, he got into mad at me for
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: interviewing Ron DeSantis, and Ron de Santis didn't tell me
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: he was running for president. In the story and nothing
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: was said bad about the president, but nonetheless I didn't think.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: I definitely know he didn't like it, and it was
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: a truth social post. So you know, that's part of
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: the business, right it is, Well, you have to have
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: a thick skin if you went into journalism for people
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: to like you you definitely went into the wrong business.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, you did.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: And I also understood at that moment in February of
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty three that you know, he had a lot
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: of stuff piling up on him, and so I didn't
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: taken it personal because some Italian it's not a bit personal, right,
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: And I just let it roll off my back. And also,
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: there really wasn't people that chimed in on it, because
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: people have followed me for so long and knew I
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: had been very good at covering people in the Midwest,
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: the Appalachia and the Great Lakes Midwest, so you know,
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: there wasn't any sort of blowback towards me. So I'm
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: there to cover him to be our first interview in
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: four years, and I'm supposed to interview him for five minutes.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: That changes to you're gonna only interview him, You're gonna
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: interview him for five minutes after the event. Then that
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: changes to Susie Wilds calls me and says, so what
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: do you think about flying to Bedminster and.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: The five hours?
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: I was like, I didn't have that on my Bengo car.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: But I'm in Watter, got a babysitter, which by the way.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: You have four children, you know that getting a babysitter
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: for four children is literally an act of God needs
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: to rise up and put his hand on your shoulder
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: for that to happen. I got you, So, okay, we're
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: gonna interview him. And then all of a sudden, the
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: Trump had landed. He was behind the stage. He was
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: doing what's called the Click line where he meets and
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: greets people that are, you know, first responders and do
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: gooders in the community, and he spends some time talking
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: with them and they get the picture taken to hence
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: the word click. And so they rushed me back and
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: I said, oh, okay, I guess we're doing the interview now, right.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: They rushed Shannon and Michael and I back, and there's
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: a curtain and I said to the handler, his name
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: is Michelle Picard the third, where am I doing this interview?
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: And he looks at me like, I actually don't.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Know where you can I don't know.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: But he didn't know where to put me, right, and
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: so he goes, excuse me, and he goes around the
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: curtain to talk to President Trump like basically say.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Where do I put What are we doing? Yeah?
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And then he comes back very sheepishly. He goes,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: she just wants to say hi to you. You're still
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: going to Bedminster. This isn't the interview. I'm like, okay,
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: So I go around this curtain and I hear Salina
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: like the way he Alwa says it, and then he
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: makes a big deal about doesn't she like And this
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: is where I just want to crawl in a hole.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: He says, look at her hair. Everyone doesn't she have
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: the most beautiful hair? And there's like thirty State troopers.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: They're all staring at my hair. And by the way,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: I had been in one hundred and one.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Degrees very hot that day.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Literally Monica from friends when she's and but then he
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: gives me a hug. He asked about my grandchildren. We
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: talk about it because you you know, I'm really am
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: interested in this interview about pets particular. And then you know,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: I go to leave, but I hear the beginnings of
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Lee Greenwood. I'm like, that's when he comes out and
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: I look at Michelle Piccard and he said, we can't
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: get you back to the riser. You go in the buffer,
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: follow the president out. You can take pictures, take video,
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: do whatever you want. Just end up, you know, towards
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: the end on the other side. And that's exactly what
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: I did, and that's how we ended up with the
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: cover that we have. Shannon took that photo that day
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: and then then that photo on the cover really has
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: has some very depths and meaning and explain that later.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: And so we go out, we take pictures, and then
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: we work our way over to the side, you know,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: the point. There's no reason to be standing in front
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: of him. Sure, and he does two things he never does.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: He puts a chart down. And I remember when he
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: put the chart down. I turned to my daughter and said,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: what is he? Ross Parrot? Because it's candidate that always
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: had a chart, right, had a chart. He had no personality,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: but he had great charts. And then he also turns
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: his head. Now you would think so President Trump does
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: never turn his head away from a rally goer and
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: people in a rally. There's a reason for that. There's
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: a very transactional relationship. He feeds off of them, they
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: feed off of him. He doesn't. He doesn't. He's very
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: respectful of them, feeling as though he is present with them.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: And in the moment that he turns his head, I
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: hear the first four shots. Now I knew what it
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: was immediately. I knew it was gunfire. I'm a gun owner, right,
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: I grew up in western Pennsylvania.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: So it's like a bers yeah.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: And I watch him and everything goes in very slow motion.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: It's true when they say about that, At least it
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: was for me. It was sort of like layers of time.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: And I watched him grab his ear, I watched the
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: blood streak across his cheek. I see him take himself down.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: That was my first understanding that he might be okay.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: But he takes himself down behind the podium, and I
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: remember like praying and saying, Dear God, please that someone's
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: protect him. That shooter, that that gunshot came over my
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: head right, that didn't come from the front where the
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: prodium would protect him. And then I kept thinking, well,
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: I hope everybody else is okay in the stands. And
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: then came the next four shots. In between those two rounds,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: there was like a sea of secret service that surrounded him,
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: navy blue suits that were just a protective stance. You
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: could barely see him. If there was more bullets coming
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: his way, they were going to take them and I
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: can see his head, his face, he's holding his ear,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: his hat is off, and then the Michelle Picard takes
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: me down.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: He knocks me down.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: And because I'm I in that moment, I have purpose.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: My purpose is I'm a reporter. God give me this talent.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: I need to chronicle what's happening, because this is being
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: This is what it is when you are a witness
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: to history and you have a depth of understanding. I've
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: always been graced with with sort of a great little recall.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: I can remember things, I can remember smells, you know.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I can see dimensionally, so not just what's in front
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: of me, but I can see what's, you know, beyond,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: in the background. And so, and I have my recorder on.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: I always have my recorder on. And people say, well,
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: why would you record a speech. You can just get
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: the transcript. Well, what's important in reporting and often missed
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: is conversations are not a transcript, and speeches are not
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: a transcript because there's nuance in conversations, right, People's voices change.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: You want to be able to capture that when you're
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: telling a story, because saying something one way, just writing
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: it flatly is very different than framing it with the
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: emotion that it's said, which is why I always record things,
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: so my recorders on, I kind of forget that. And
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: I watch him fight with the Secret Service to get
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: his shoes on, and there's a reason for that, and
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: the crowd starts chanting USA, and I can see him
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: mouth it. I can't hear him, but I can see
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: him say USA along with them at least twice. And
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: they get him up and they're want to take him away,
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: and he goes no, no, no, no no, or wait
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: wait wait. I think he said wait, wait, wait, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: he turns around and that's when he says fight White Fight.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: And that moment, that decision is so pivotal to whatever
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: happens from that moment on through the rest of the campaign,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: but also since January. That moment is so profound, and
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: why he says it. People don't understand why he said it,
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: but why he says it is even more profound.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: So listening to you, I mean, obviously, I think you're terrific,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: and I read all your column and have for a
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: gajillion years, and proud to call you a fellow Pennsylvania
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: native and all the things. But I think the thing
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: that I really want people to pull away when they
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: listen to you. Is you're so embedded in the messaging,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: right even down to the point of recording the voice
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: and getting the nuance because it's lost in a transcript.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: It's so true and you think to yourself, oh, remember that,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: but you won't. You won't remember that because there is
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: first of all, my god, you're on the Trump detail,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: You're in the buffer. There's so much going on. To
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: even attempt to remember everything, all the things that are
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: happening around you, it's difficult, right, And you may even
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: give yourself a little note remember to talk about you know,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: white shirt, red shorts, great USA had or whatever you're
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: going to add as an anecdote, right, because they give
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: color to those people who couldn't make it. To Butler,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, to be perfectly frank, nobody heard of Butler
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: before this incident, you know what I mean. They're like,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: where the heck is Butler Pennsylvania. And the fact that
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: he went back, I mean, the audacity and the whole
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: to me, it was like he was reclaiming it. I
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: know we're both very good friends with Sarah Carter, and
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I was on the phone the day that Sarah Carter
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: showed up to cover it, right, and she's saying to me,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I can't even I can't even tell you how many
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: people are here. It's she goes, it's eight o'clock in
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: the morning, and it was like mombed, you know, and
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: it just shows, you know, And I wasn't there. It
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: was one of those things. I was like, man, you know,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: and I had an obligation for one of the kids,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and it was like, you make those choices, right. But
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: it's crazy to think how all of that sort of
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: culminated into this one moment, because I mean, I don't
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: know how you feel about Matthew Crooks, but my god,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I know I read some of your book and it's
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: like it was just strange, right. The calls they came
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: after the five hour call later with the FBI and
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: the dad. You know, you really delineated a lot of
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: that really well. And I again, guys, if you're listening,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: this is Selena Zito. She wrote the book Butler. It's
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: out today. I urge you buy the audiobook, buy the
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: print book by it to day. It's on sale, by
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: the way, right, it's on sale today and tomorrow.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: It is on sale today and tomorrow on Amazon. And
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: it's true witness to history, not just what happened in Butler.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Why does he go to Butler? You know? And it's
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: a really deal detailed explanation about why there's only ever
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: been two US presidents that have campaigned for president in
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Butler and the other one was JFK.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: So it's so funny. I was going to go to
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: that point and just talk about that whole idea. While
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: they were on opposite sides politically, they're both disruptors. They
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: both were men of the people, if you will, And
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: so I wanted to go back for a minute and
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: just ask you, how did your relationship with President Trump
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: come to be?
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Where did this? I need to know the origins, you
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: know a little bit of where this all came from.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, if people have not read me before
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: or heard me before, I'm based in from Pennsylvania. The
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: region that I cover tends to be Appalachia, but also
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: the Great Lakes, Midwest Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin. And
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: I've always zigged where everyone zagged. I understood for a
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: while that this conservative populist coalition was forming, and so
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: I understood and my writing showed that, and so you
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: would see that in my coverage of Wisconsin, of Scott Walker,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: right of Ohio, just how these states were changing. It
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: was very granular beginning in two thousand and six, but
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: something definitely was happening. And so his Pennsylvania guy, David Urban,
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I had known forever, and so David is the one
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: that kept giving him my stories and trying to convince
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: him to sedu a sit down. Now, at the time
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I did my first sit down with him, I was
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: a local reporter for the Pittsburgh Tribune Review. Well, I
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: was supposed to do it as that, but the day,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: the day that they asked me to do the interview
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: was also my last day on the job. They had
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: urged people to take the buy out. It became clear
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: that if I didn't take the buy out and get
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: the you know, the money that you get when you
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: do a buy out there, I really would be fired.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: After the buyer out was over, right, there was there
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: was that hint that boy, you should, you should really
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: take that. And so I was walking out of the
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: newsroom crying. And you know, newsrooms are like, especially old
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: school newsrooms are like the land of the misfit toys.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: I mean one right now, it's just totally.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: You all are doing wildly different things. You somehow come
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: together to produce a newspaper or produce a show, right.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: And so I'm walking out and I get a call
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: from David Irban. He goes, hey, Selena, you have an
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: interview with Donald Trump in two days. And I was like, oh,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: that's awesome. And I'm like, I don't have a job.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I have no outlet. It's a princess in the.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: New York Times. And they're like, now, we're not interested.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: And I called listen Daily Beast I think it was
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: a Daily Beast and maybe Political or Washington Post, I
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: can't remember. At this point, I caught a whole bunch
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: of them. Finally, I like exhausted, you know, And I
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: didn't even know these beats, like a cold call. It
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: like Glengarry Glenn Ross the word, and it was The
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Atlantic that took.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: The story of all places.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: All places. I think I got paid two hundred dollars
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: for that job. It was two things happened in that
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: interview that I think started our mutual respect for each other.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: I saw for it was at a Marcella shale coalition
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: convention in Pittsburgh, and he was not that interested in
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: the suits that were attending. He was very interested in
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: the people that put the event together. So after we
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: do the interview, and it was in that interview that
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: I said to him, you know, voters take you seriously,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: but they don't take everything that you say literally, whereas
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: the press takes you everything that you say is literal,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: and they don't take you very seriously. But what happened
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: in that moment is he's like, come on, take a
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: walk with me after the interview. I'm like, okay. So
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: we take a walk and he stops and talks to
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: the janitor. He talks to the guy that's pushing the
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: big carts of water. He's talking to the caterers that
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: are going to be serving all these c suite suits
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: that are out there waiting to hear Trump speak. And
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: his connective tissue with those people told me that you
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: know what, what what blaite people like him because he's
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: from the outer borough. He's not Manhattan, right, He's the
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: guy who had to punch his way up. And if
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: anybody's ever seen the movie Age of Innocence, that sort
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: of tear system in New York. If you're not old money,
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: you don't belong with the crowd. He and he had
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: that grit that is possessed by the working class people.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: That's what they saw in him. That also c sweet
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: guys saw them in two because a lot of them
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: had to punch their way up to get there. So
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: that's sort of how that coalition. So that that is
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: where that that moment I said that to him, I'm like,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: you're a really curious.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Guy, a big collar billionaire.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're asking all these questions of people that that
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: people don't expect you to be connected to. I think
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: began our respect for each other. Two weeks later, the
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: New York Post hired me to drive across the country
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: to do a story on again. I'm freelancing, right, I'm like,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: barely making ends meet. I just want to finish this
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: election because I knew what was going to happen. And
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: why I knew what was going to happen was I
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: understood my state was changing our state, Pennsylvania. Right. Bill
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: Clinton had won our state by winning twenty eight of
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: our sixty seven counties and eroded every four years byzero
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: point one percent. If you're a nerd, you know this stuff.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: By twenty twelve, Barack Obama had only won thirteen of
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: our counties.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it got very purple.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And that was telling me that the possibility was
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: going to happen. And there was ten counties that I
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: high identified that if Trump won just two thousand more
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: votes in those counties, he would win the election. Didn't
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: matter what happened in Pennsylvania or Pittsburgh and Philly. If
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: he won those ten more rural counties, he would win
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: the state. I drove across the country for the New
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: York Post on Route thirty and came back and wrote,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: the selection's over. You all just don't know it yet.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: I think he thought that was a pretty bowl like
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: rush Limbaugh at the time was whoa. I think Sean
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: did too, Sean in rush Limbaugh. And then that's when
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: the president started to really follow the work that I do.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: And you know, it is not easy to be me
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: this person right there. Not because I'm a like a
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: cheerleader for the president. I just understand people, and I
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: could see the and change in people. Yeah, and and
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: so that's that's sort of where that mutual respect began.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: And again he did get mad at me once but
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: you know, less than a year later, he made a
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: phone call to me. I was watching my four grandchildren,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: who at the time were six, four, two and an infant,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: and and he calls and I'm like trying to navigate
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: four children. He is laughing his head off, and that
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: was that was it. Everything was good.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: It just humanized it all. I mean, honestly, kids are
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: the best thing ever. So it really does. You know,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: he was wonderful with children. I mean, you know, he
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: met my son. We went h we did it. We
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: were at one of his rallies and he did this
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: sit down with Sean Hannity and and we were in
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: the front row and Sean was, you know, pointing me
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: out and he goes and that's her son, Liam. And
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: he came over and shook Liam's hand, and Liam was like,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't understand what's happening right now, like totally.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: My older kids were there too, but it was like
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: and he had a picture from my niece which he
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: gave to the President and the President took it very graciously,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: and I just was like, this is surreal. I hadn't
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: even met him yet. Yeah, which was pretty funny, you know.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: So it was like a moment for me. But back
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: to back to Butler and your book out today. You know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I think obviously people want to read this account because
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: it's firsthand. You're there, you you saw it, you smelt it,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: you felt it, you saw all the other people and
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: what they went through. And obviously we lost some really
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: wonderful people that day who the President has honored, you
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: know since then so many times, which is amazing. But
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I think if I was going to ask you one
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: question about the book, what would you think? What do
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: you want people to come away with just their own interpretation.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Is there some thing about the book that you're like,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I really hope they get.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: This, and I hope they get and understand that America
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: changed in that moment, And and reading my reporting every
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: day on the road, right, I don't fly, I don't
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: even go in interstates. I only take back roads, seeing
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: how this election unfolded, seeing how bad I was also
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: covering Harris, seeing how bad she was doing in the
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: decisions that she made that has not been prosecuted in
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: the in the in the blogosphere, whatever whatever we want
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: to call it, in a way that it should be,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: because there were some believable terrible mistakes made in the
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: most important state in the country, the ones that you
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: should never ever make. And I and I think that
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: that there was also a joy that they will find
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: in this book, because there were moments that were joyful
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: like McDonald's.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: And also there was five minutes from my house by
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: the way I did that. I was like, this is wild.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like, this is so great.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: That was great. I was there. But also I remember
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: the Madison Square garden thing, right, and the garbage thing,
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: and every reporter, every single reporter I knew, said this
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: is it. It's over, it's done. He's lost them. And
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: I go out to eastern PA in the most populist
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: city in the state of people that are from Puerto Rico,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: and you know, there's supposed to be this big protest
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: because he's coming to do a rally, big protests. They've
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: left him. And there were six people at the protest,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: and so find one voter that left him, No, not one.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you something. You know what I learned
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: from the garbage truck moment, aside from the fact that
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: it happened around Halloween and every child I knew wanted
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: to be a garbage truck man, I mean, do you
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: remember that grown men dressing up as garbage truck men?
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: My whole neighborhood, the whole neighborhoods. Yes.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, you know he did the exact opposite.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: It said to me two things. One, nothing is beneath
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: this man. Nothing And two, whoever he got to turn
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: that truck around that fast? Oh my god, they must
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: have started working on it the second it happened. I know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: not incredible.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: And a couple of days later this was, this was
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: a powerful moment. He has this event in Pittsburgh. He has,
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: uh it's the night before the election. So it's a
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: couple of days later after after garbage and and the
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: place he has has a peep arena and it is
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: packed and I see people lined up for a half
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: a mile in each direction to get in. And I'm
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: looking and this is a phenomenon I kept writing about.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: But guys, there's a lot of young people here. Oh
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: by the way, guys, these crowds are really diverse. How
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: how are you not writing about this? Where is your
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: intellectual curiosity? And I remember the next night was election night. Yeah,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: and I had a reporter, a local reporter come up
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: to me and say, I'm just going to have to
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: disagree with your story about the diversity and the young people.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I, you know, I don't make a
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: selfie together and get the background.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I was there too, and I said,
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: well then your eyes weren't wide open. But at that
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: event sat Roberto Clemente Junior. He's born in Puerto Rico.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: He is a pillar of the community, the Clemente family.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: People don't know who ROBERTA Clemente is. He was the
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: best bag baseball player that ever was from Puerto Rico
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: and his children were born there too, and he's a
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: pillar of the community. He runs the Clemente Foundation, and
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: he is boldly sitting right there to to to welcome
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: President Trump, and and then Megan Kelly is there, and
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: then the announcement comes through that Joe Rogan has endorsed him. Right,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: you have like all this diversity of thought, experience, ethnic background,
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: and nobody wrote it but me, and it frustrated the
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: heck out of me. So I think that people will
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: see and be able to feel the real truth that
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: was going on in this in this election. But also
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: you know, the reckoning with my with my profession.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I think it's amazing you. You really did do something
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: that is very difficult, which was you stood alone. Yeah,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: and to standalone is very difficult when everyone in your
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: industry is staring at you, oh.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and or you at all throwing tweets at me
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: that aren't doing nice.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Well, that's I mean to your point. I mean, you
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: started the interview by saying I didn't get in this
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: business because I didn't have a thick skin. I'm Italian, right,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: you're right because as many people that love you, and
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: I always say this. You know, my mother told me
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: this growing up and it's very very true, as are
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: many things she has told me in my life, which
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: is you will always hear more negative than positive because
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: positive people are not wishing you ill. They're saying, oh
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: my god, she's amazing, and then they move on with
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: their day.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: But the people that are saying negative, like oh I
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: don't like doing this, there are and they like just
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: dwell in it and it just projects it. It's like,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: oh god, could you please, you know, get a hobby.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: But it's like you just persevered. You're like, no, I
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: was there, this is real. I was there with my daughter.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: We experience this. I'm gonna run a book about it.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: You guys are going to read it, and it is
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: the truth and nobody can take it away.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: I didn't go to an Ivy league school. I went
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: to community college a waitress. I have worked in a
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: sewer treatment plant. I have been the cafeteria lady. I
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: have been a shampoo girl.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: So I.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I understand the people that I cover, and I respect them,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: and I thank them so much for letting me into
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: their homes and their businesses and soccer fields and bulling
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: alleys and diners and letting me be able to tell
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: their story in an incredibly meaningful way.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you have done that in spades. I
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: think you are by far one of the most talented writers.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I loved reading what you wrote before I ever knew you,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: and then I was like, I have to be friends
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: with her. How do I do that? Okay, I'll just
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: keep emailing her and telling her that I like her
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: and I want her to come on every show that
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I work on, and that's what we did. But I
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: have to say every time I would say to somebody,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: oh did you read that piece by Selene Azito, Because
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: first of all, your website's great. And wherever you you know,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I always what is it? Nowhere is the no somewhere
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: right everything in the middle of somewhere. And I was like, man,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: that isn't that the truth? It's no, it's my god. Butler, Like.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: My family was one of the founding families of Butler.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: No kidding the seventeen fifties. Wow, they served in the
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: American Revolution, they served in the French and India War.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: My family, my family was one of the founding families
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: of Butler. So I'm very rooted. And also, place is
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: really important. It's a nuance in American politics that posters
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: and strategists don't understand and a set how much place
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: means to someone when they're guiding their vote, and that
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: is that is a theme throughout the book that I
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: hope that people start to really reflect and think about.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what, ladies and gentlemen. Selena Zito,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: She's fantastic. Her new book, Butler, is out today. Please
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: get it. You can get it on Amazon. Continue to
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: read our article. Selena Zito, thank you so much for
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: being on the Roague Recap.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: Thank you, my friend.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.