Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / How Cameron Fakouri Gets Tax Professionals to Job Offers in Three Days Without the Runaround

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How Cameron Fakouri Gets Tax Professionals to Job Offers in Three Days Without the Runaround · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:12
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:15
adversity. As you listen today, let one
0:17
idea shape what you do next. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi,
0:21
and today's guest built a career inside the machine he now
0:25
disrupts. He spent years at EY and
0:29
Armenino learning exactly what it takes to make tax manager,
0:33
interviewing hundreds of candidates and watching good
0:36
accountants get passed over by recruiters who couldn't tell a
0:40
waterfall calculation from a balance sheet.
0:42
He walked away from that track, tried a couple of pivots, and
0:45
eventually landed on a model that most recruiting firms have
0:48
no interest in. Place them then coach them.
0:52
The conventional wisdom says that that slows things down.
0:56
His results say otherwise. Chairman for Curry is ACPA,
1:01
former tax manager and the founder of Resi Check, a career
1:05
consulting firm exclusively serving tax professionals in
1:09
public accounting. He holds a master's at
1:12
accountancy and a bachelor's in psychology, and he's built Resi
1:16
Check around the idea that the person doing the recruiting
1:20
should actually understand the work.
1:23
That's something worth paying attention to in what Cameron
1:26
built and more importantly, why he built it.
1:29
But before we get into all that good stuff, today's episode is
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Back benefits.com. All right, back to our guest
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today, the recruiter and career strategist of Rezi Check also
2:33
the founder Cameron for Curry. Thanks for making the time to
2:36
Share your story today. Hey, Anthony, good to be here.
2:39
How are you? I'm doing well.
2:42
So for Curry before Rezi check there was a stop that probably
2:47
doesn't get a ton of attention on, you know, a resume.
2:50
So you left a stable tax manager role and spent about a year
2:54
building a business process automation firm using a combo of
2:59
Python And Excel VBA? Walk me back to that period.
3:03
What were you solving for? Yeah.
3:06
So I've, I've had a very non traditional career path, as you
3:10
might have learned already, Anthony.
3:13
So I was a tax manager and, you know, spending day in, day out
3:17
looking at spreadsheets just didn't feel fulfilling to me.
3:21
So Fast forward a little bit, I decided to open up a business
3:25
consulting firm where I would try to automate and help
3:28
streamline processes using the Excel, DBA and Python.
3:33
And that was still, I felt like I was just still staring at a
3:35
screen, you know, instead of spreadsheets, it was code or,
3:38
you know, something else. And I had to do some real self
3:41
inventory and I discovered that I really loved helping people.
3:46
And what I'm really good at is helping them through the process
3:50
of where I used to be, which is public accounting and tax.
3:53
So I put pen to paper, started Rezi check.
3:57
And by the way, it's called Rezi check because Rezi for resume
4:00
check for checking resumes. That's how I first started was
4:02
just a, you know, quick resume check sort of situation, but
4:05
it's evolved to something so much bigger.
4:08
So, so that's kind of where my mind was at when I departed from
4:11
the tax world into business consulting and then back into
4:14
the tax public accounting world, but in a different kind of suit,
4:17
so to speak. So you'd had a lot of experience
4:20
interviewing hundreds of clients when you were or candidates.
4:23
Sorry, when you were at Armenino, you were on the
4:25
recruiting team, but there was something about the process that
4:28
felt like it was broken to you. Oh, yeah.
4:32
So when you are at one of these firms like UI or Armanino, let's
4:36
say there's a tax manager like I was, they asked if they say who,
4:38
hey, who wants to volunteer to interview the candidates, review
4:43
the resumes, network with them, and then we'll ask you for your
4:46
opinion afterwards. And I, you know, we think, hey,
4:48
that's great. What ended up happening was I
4:52
felt like, and I'm not alone in thinking this, I felt like we
4:55
were being used as props rather than actually caring about our
4:59
input, right. So we meet with these candidates
5:02
and we'd say, hey, I really think so.
5:03
And so they need to be hired. They have the right attitude,
5:06
they have the right skills. And then behind the scenes they
5:09
wouldn't get hired because maybe they found someone at a lower
5:12
salary or someone else. You just kind of fit their,
5:17
their, their budget framework. So I felt like we were being
5:19
used more as a face of the firm rather than actually taking our
5:24
input into consideration. And I, I thought that we could
5:27
do better. I think, you know, yes, we are
5:30
working on spreadsheets all day. It's accounting, but we're human
5:33
at the end of the day. And and you want to make sure
5:35
you hire someone that fits that culture and you can spend a lot
5:37
of time with. OK.
5:40
So tell me about Rezi check. What do you guys do?
5:43
What makes the model different from all the other recruiting
5:45
firms? Yeah, great question, Anthony.
5:49
So, you know, as an entrepreneur, I feel like I'm
5:51
always pivoting, I'm always evolving.
5:53
But Rezi Check at its core focuses on taking time with the
5:58
candidate and with the client, as opposed to a recruiting firm
6:01
that just kind of churns applicants, right?
6:05
I mean, listen, this is a business, right?
6:08
So we make money by placing candidates, but that shouldn't
6:11
be the focus or the driver of the business, I think.
6:16
And my, this comes from my father, he's an entrepreneur as
6:18
well. He always told me it's all about
6:20
the relationships, right? So if I'm, if I'm just trying to
6:25
flip candidates and fill spots and make my Commission and
6:28
that's not the relationship, right, that's not going to last
6:32
three 5-10 years. So I think what makes Rezi check
6:37
different as we take our time, I get to know you, we have touch
6:42
points weekly. We we get to the real heart of
6:47
your question. And the question usually is, do
6:49
I want to work for this firm? Do I want to work for that firm?
6:52
Why? Why not?
6:53
As opposed to, hey, there's an opening here, you should apply.
6:56
Let's get you in, let's get you in, let's get you out.
6:58
Boom boom boom. So it's the company that's
7:03
hiring you, that's your client, right?
7:05
And then you're going out and you're finding folks that you
7:08
think would be a good fit for the open role.
7:13
Yes. So Resi check is made-up of two
7:16
main funnels, right. It's the recruiting side and the
7:18
career coaching side. So yes, from the recruiting side
7:22
it will be a firm like Armenino or maybe a mid size firm that'll
7:27
reach out to me and say, hey, Cameron, I know you have the
7:29
network. Can you help me find some good
7:31
quality candidates? OK.
7:34
And then from the coaching side? The coaching side is where the
7:39
candidate is having trouble finding a role or maybe they're
7:43
they're getting interviews, but they're not getting offers.
7:45
So we talked about what you can do differently.
7:49
We do interview prep, we do resume review, back to resi
7:53
checks, original roots, right? And even when they get hired,
7:56
they want to do ongoing coaching with me because I've been there.
7:59
I've been in that that ladder climbing competition in
8:04
corporate America, right? How to get from associate to
8:07
manager. So we talked about office
8:11
politics, how what to say during your performance reviews, how to
8:14
stand out, how to be a top performer because you know, I
8:18
walk the walk. So I'm trying to give back as
8:20
much as I can in in terms of the career coaching side.
8:24
And as I understand on the career coaching side, you only
8:27
have a limited number of folks that you take at a time.
8:30
Why is that? Yeah, Anthony, I mean, I don't
8:35
think it's any secret that, you know, the more work you have on
8:39
your plate, the less quality you're able to provide, right?
8:44
So I I cap it at 10 candidates Max because I want to make sure
8:48
they get my full attention. And and again, this all goes
8:52
back to me trying to right the ship of public accounting.
8:55
So if you're familiar with public accounting, I feel like
8:59
as an associate, as a senior, even as a manager, they try to
9:02
push as much work as they can on you, right?
9:05
They try to milk you for everything you've got.
9:07
And it's, it's obvious the quality of your work is going to
9:11
deteriorate hugely. So I try to keep that in mind
9:15
when I set my cap at 10. In fact, I'm thinking about
9:17
going a little bit lower, maybe maybe the 6:00 or 8:00, we'll
9:20
see. But 10 has been a good, good
9:23
balance for now. That's a good threshold for you
9:26
at the moment. So it's interesting on the
9:28
coaching side, you know, when you said that, I'm like, oh,
9:31
he's helping the folks find jobs.
9:34
I don't know, maybe sometimes you're coaching somebody and
9:37
that ends up being who you place with a client who's hired you
9:41
to, you know, find somebody. But once they find a job, then
9:46
not all the time does your coaching terminate.
9:50
You said they still want your help kind of navigating that
9:53
corporate world and how can I know that I've got this job, use
9:57
it to advance my career? What are some of the most common
10:03
pitfalls or things that surprise people when they're in the
10:07
corporate world and trying to climb that ladder that you're
10:10
able to help shine a light on? That is a great question and I
10:15
don't want to give away all my trade secrets today, Anthony,
10:18
but I will give you a taste. So you might have heard this.
10:23
The secret really is communication, but you can't
10:26
just say, oh, communication, you know, communicate more.
10:29
That's that's not helpful. So we talked about, you know, if
10:35
you have questions, you don't want to go knock on the person's
10:38
door every question you have and you collate them into maybe 3 to
10:41
5 questions. You ping them, ask them
10:44
specifically. Do you prefer an e-mail
10:47
discussion, a Zoom discussion or in person?
10:51
The trick here, Anthony, is getting them outside of their
10:54
comfort zone because if you've known an accountant or ACPA,
10:57
they're not always the most personable type of people.
11:02
So my specialty is getting them over that hump from being the
11:07
person that sits in their desk quietly and does the work that
11:10
they're told to being the person that goes out and knocks on
11:15
doors and gets answers and thinks proactively instead of
11:19
reactively. So it's really a mindset shift
11:23
and that all falls under the umbrella of communication.
11:27
And not to play stereotypes, but I'm going to guess this is
11:31
difficult for a lot of folks in the accounting space, right?
11:34
They're great at the numbers being behind the screen or the
11:36
spreadsheet. The communication aspect is
11:39
probably a little bit more challenging for a lot of folks.
11:42
Oh 100%. Sometimes we go over scripts.
11:45
What to say exactly? Maybe it's an e-mail script,
11:48
maybe it's an in person script. And for some people it is
11:52
difficult. That is for a lot of people, the
11:55
reason they got into accounting is because they think it's the
11:58
type of role that they can sit quietly in a corner.
12:00
And maybe some roles are like that.
12:02
But let's let's be real, most of them are not, especially today.
12:07
You need to you need to be able to, you know, flow, you need to
12:13
be able to raise questions that are important to the job and
12:18
down the line you're expected to pass on that knowledge to the
12:20
new people that get hired. You're expected to mentor.
12:24
So if you're not a good communicator, it's just going to
12:26
be a domino effect of a bad situations with the company.
12:30
What are you seeing in terms of remote work in the fields that
12:34
you're playing in, You know, are folks still being able to can,
12:39
can they work remotely with these kinds of roles or people
12:41
really wanting to bring them back in office?
12:44
That is a great question, Anthony, And that is the hottest
12:47
topic that I deal with every day.
12:49
I feel like there's a culture war between the hiring firms and
12:53
the candidates. So as you can imagine, the
12:56
hiring firms are trying to get almost everybody back into the
13:00
office for reasons we can we can talk about later.
13:04
But I mean, the other side of this is candidates looking for
13:09
purely remote work. So there's this little business
13:12
disconnect here. And let's be honest, I'm a
13:17
remote worker. I don't know about you, Anthony,
13:19
Are you? You look like you're in a studio
13:20
right now, right? I'm in an office, so, but I
13:24
mean, I work with people all over the country.
13:26
I interview people all over the country.
13:29
And so, yeah, I and I built teams of folks that, you know,
13:33
are around the world. And so I'm a big fan of the
13:36
structure, but I understand the pitfalls from it too.
13:39
That and you hit the head, the nail on the head there.
13:43
There's pitfalls. So you could be a type of person
13:45
that thrives in a remote environment or just the
13:48
opposite. So it's it's a nuanced
13:51
situation. I know today we want black and
13:52
white. We want yes, no answers.
13:54
But you know, if you're a candidate looking for remote
13:57
roles, you just understand that there are not allowed out there.
14:01
And if there are, they might be paying a little bit less.
14:04
So. And on the flip side, if you're
14:06
someone who likes to be in the office, those firms are going to
14:09
have to meet you at a little bit higher rate to get you into that
14:11
office. So it's this constant struggle
14:13
we're seeing right now. It's, it's a, it's a culture war
14:15
between the candidate and the firm.
14:18
And I think one of the nice things about the remote work is
14:21
you're able to expand the pool of people who would be potential
14:25
candidates for you, gives you, you know, much, much bigger
14:29
group to pull from. The the downside is the obvious,
14:32
right? Like there's there's
14:34
collaboration that takes place a lot better in person.
14:37
And so it's just, yeah. And you're dealing with that all
14:41
the time, it sounds like Cameron.
14:43
I, I am and, and on that note, I will tell my candidates that,
14:46
hey, if you're trying to make manager in four or five years,
14:49
which is considered a fast rate, being there in person will help
14:53
your chances. I'm not saying it's right or
14:55
wrong or should be this way that way, but that's just how it is,
14:58
right? Tell us about your placement
15:00
guarantee. So placement guarantee, that
15:07
could mean a couple things in the recruiting world.
15:09
The guarantee is that the candidate, the candidate that I
15:13
helped place at the firm will be a good match.
15:18
And if they're not, if they decide to leave or if they're
15:21
terminated within three months, then, you know, depending on the
15:25
arrangement, you'll either get a partial refund or I'll help you
15:29
replace that candidate with a new candidate.
15:31
But that has, that hasn't happened to me yet.
15:34
All the candidates I place, you know, they know what they're
15:37
getting into. And if you talk to any of the
15:39
candidates I work with, they'll tell you that Cameron is a no BS
15:43
pap and a guy, he's a straight shooter.
15:45
He tells exactly what to expect from this firm.
15:48
You know, it's, it's tough leaving a firm for another firm.
15:53
And you know, for my time joining EY and Army, you know,
15:57
you're, you're shown all the beautiful things this firm has
15:59
to offer, right? You're shown the, the great, the
16:03
green pastures and the perfect picture.
16:05
And then you get there and you're like, oh, this is not
16:06
what I signed up for. So I, I, as someone who's lived
16:10
that, I try to avoid that at all costs.
16:13
I say, listen, this is what it's going to be like.
16:15
This is the pay structure. This is when you're probably
16:17
going to get your, your raise, your promotion.
16:19
These are the hours that are expected.
16:22
This is what they prefer in terms of remote versus hybrid
16:24
versus an office. So I, I want there to be no
16:27
question, no hesitation when you're joining that firm.
16:32
Makes sense. Obviously the way that you
16:34
approach it though, Cameron takes more time.
16:39
Seems like it would slow down the hiring process, but looking
16:43
at your results, you know you're getting folks to offers in three
16:47
days. What is happening in your
16:49
process that kind of defies this assumption that the approach
16:53
that you take is really slowing down the process?
16:57
Again, it's just being straightforward.
16:59
It's saying, hey, listen, this is what we have.
17:03
If you don't want it, that's fine.
17:05
Just let us know right now. So it gets rid of a lot of the
17:08
noise that's involved in recruiting.
17:12
You know, some firms do 345 rounds of interviews and and
17:18
that's that's great. But you know, usually both
17:21
parties know within the first one or two interviews if it's
17:25
going to work or not. And if if they don't know, that
17:27
means that there's there's a blockage of information, there's
17:31
something that's not being communicated correctly, whether
17:35
it's from decider that so you know, at resi check.
17:38
When I started this company, I tried to do things differently.
17:41
And right now, taking our time, being straightforward, being
17:45
transparent has has been working and I think that's the right way
17:48
to go. And so if I'm hearing you
17:51
correctly, I think part of the unlock for you is that you spend
17:56
more time with the candidate upfront, explaining to them what
17:59
this opportunity is like and maybe perhaps even coaching your
18:03
client to say, hey, I think this person is a really good fit for
18:08
you. Let's, you know, do away with
18:11
the five interview process. And, you know, let's try to
18:14
shorten this up so that everybody's getting to a
18:17
decision point a lot faster. Absolutely.
18:22
And we could talk about what the clients wants a little bit, the
18:25
firms, the hiring firms. And you, you might have heard
18:29
about this, but everyone's looking for a Unicorn, Anthony,
18:33
I don't know if you've ever had to hire anybody, but it's it's
18:35
like we all want that perfect person at the perfect salary.
18:40
And part of my job is to bring things into perspective.
18:43
So for example, I had a firm who says I don't want anyone who
18:47
does not have a master's degree. I say, OK.
18:51
And I asked him, how many of your current employees have
18:54
master's degrees? And well, about half.
18:56
And then you ask, well, those hat, the hat that does not have
18:59
the master's degrees, are they top performers?
19:00
Yeah, a few of them are. I said, well, OK, then.
19:02
Then there's an opportunity to explore outside of this rigid
19:06
requirements of having only a master's degree.
19:09
And they said, oh, yeah, I didn't think about that.
19:11
So sometimes it's just bringing things into perspective.
19:15
If if I find a Unicorn, I find a Unicorn.
19:18
But more often than not, it's it's about, you know, meeting on
19:22
on the level of what you really need and setting the
19:25
expectations upfront. Yeah, rather than like I've got
19:28
this imaginary list of check boxes that I think I need to be
19:33
able to meet in reality. Yeah, maybe that master's degree
19:37
doesn't really guarantee that I'm getting a better fit for
19:40
this role. I know partners who had 2.7 GPA
19:44
S in college and they're partners now.
19:46
So what does that tell you? Right?
19:48
You can only do so much. You can only explain so much of
19:51
your story on a piece of paper, which is the resume.
19:54
Yeah, there's the old adage. How's it go that A students
19:57
teach and B students work for C students?
20:01
Yes, yes, that's true. So you've got a psychology
20:05
degree with a concentration in specifically in industrial
20:09
psychology. It's an interesting combination
20:12
with your CPA background. How does that combo help you in
20:17
what you've doing at Resi check? Well, let me give a little
20:22
disclaimer to your listeners here, Anthony.
20:24
I am not psychic. I cannot read minds, but it has
20:28
come in handy throughout my career, even when I was a tax
20:30
manager. It's it's, it's almost like a
20:34
mechanic not knowing how an engine works, right?
20:39
So in other words, I wanted to know how the human mind works,
20:45
how personality traits function in an office setting, how non
20:53
verbal communication can send the wrong message sort of thing.
20:56
So all of this has been very helpful in my career, not even
21:01
professionally, but personally as well.
21:04
And I think it gives me an edge because it, it's almost like
21:11
you're, you're encouraged now that I, you know, since I have a
21:15
degree in psychology, I'm encouraged now I'm encouraging
21:17
myself to dig deeper into someone's story rather than just
21:20
kind of taking it at face value. And when you peel back the
21:23
layers, you start to understand a little bit more about this
21:26
candidate, why they did the things they did or how they can
21:30
tell their story to a hiring firm in a way that makes sense.
21:33
So, and at the end of the day, I just love, I just love learning.
21:39
I wish I could be a full time student honestly.
21:41
And psychology was an awesome subject.
21:43
I highly recommend anyone who has some extra time just do some
21:47
YouTube video you know, learn about, learn about the mind, you
21:50
know. Everyone's got one.
21:52
It's a terrible thing to waste, right?
21:55
So some of your LinkedIn content, Cameron, is pretty
21:58
direct. I mean, you're kind of calling
22:00
folks out when you say things like, stop explaining waterfall
22:04
calculations to recruiters who don't understand.
22:08
Are you intentionally kind of, you know, poking the bear a
22:11
little bit? Like do you find like this
22:13
confrontational approach is effective for you?
22:18
100% we are living in a world where you know, you don't know
22:23
what's what's AI on Instagram or you don't know if someone's
22:28
saying something because they want the clicks or if it's
22:30
actually factual and helpful, right.
22:32
So I try to cut the DS and just get straight to the point, you
22:38
know, especially as a former tax manager, it's all about billable
22:43
time. And if you're wasting time, it's
22:45
it's not going to look good on your your utilization record.
22:48
So I try to save people time about being very
22:50
straightforward, very blunt, give them the information they
22:53
want to know. And yeah, I think it's been
22:55
working out. You know, another topic that
22:58
you've written about is how accountants often feel
23:02
undervalued and and they burn out.
23:04
Say more about that. Why do you think that's specific
23:07
to the accounting profession? It's, it's, it's not specific to
23:14
the accounting profession, but it is what I have the most
23:16
experience with. And it's, it's, it's very
23:22
nuanced. But in, in general terms, you
23:26
know, you have a partner at the top who's taking home equity and
23:29
you have the employees at the bottom.
23:31
And it's in the partners interest to get more business,
23:34
right? So the more business they get,
23:37
the more the employees need to work.
23:39
The problem is tax law has changed so much over the past
23:42
years that there's just too much work.
23:46
And the employees are expected to work 556575 if you're a big
23:51
four, maybe 8090, a hundred hour weeks just to get the job done.
23:56
And we don't get paid overtime. So it's, it's an interesting
24:00
situation that the, the partners are excited for the, for the
24:06
business, but the employees are kind of feeling the burn.
24:09
And you know, it's, it's, it's tough.
24:13
It's, that's the biggest reason people leave public accounting
24:16
firms is the burnout. It's the billable hour goal,
24:21
billable hour goals. So it's tough out there.
24:26
I mean I'm sure you've heard stories of people being burnt
24:30
out, especially since COVID days.
24:33
Yeah. And when films are burned out in
24:36
the public accounting firms and they leave, where are they
24:39
traditionally going with that kind of experience?
24:42
So you'll either stay in public accounting, but you will ask
24:45
first, say, hey, what are the goals?
24:47
What are the chargeable hour goals?
24:49
That's a metric. Or they'll go to industry, which
24:52
is a private firm. Let's say you go to Disneyland
24:56
and you work as a tax director or an internal auditor or
24:58
something like that. And usually those hours are a
25:01
little bit more stable at 40 hours a week, which is heaven
25:05
for any public accountant. So, you know, you have you have
25:11
options. A lot of candidates don't
25:13
realize that some people think they're stuck in public
25:15
accounting. So part of my job as a career
25:17
coach is to explore those options.
25:20
And so for some of those folks, are those options than just
25:23
going to private industry like, you know, larger companies, they
25:26
need their own in house accountant.
25:30
That's, that's definitely one of the the exit routes for sure.
25:33
Depends if you're in tax, you're on and you could also work at
25:35
the government. I hear that's a little bit more
25:39
slow pace. So it's kind of, it depends on
25:41
your personality, right? Are you the type of person who
25:43
wants something new everyday, who enjoys the challenges?
25:46
Then maybe public accounting is, is what you got to stay in, but
25:50
maybe you can negotiate for part time public accounting or
25:53
negotiate for fewer hours or, or better PTO.
25:57
So there are options out there, there are opportunities, but I
26:04
think a lot of people don't realize that.
26:06
They think they're just stuck in this hamster wheel of public
26:10
accounting. Take me back to the early days
26:14
resi check. How did you get that first
26:16
client? Oh, that's a funny story,
26:19
actually. You know, before I had a real
26:23
idea, I had a feeling of what I wanted to do.
26:26
I wanted to help accounting professionals and students and
26:30
so I went to a coffee shop and sat down with my laptop before I
26:33
had any business name or anything like that.
26:36
And I overhear one of the baristas talking about a
26:39
networking event called Meet the Firms.
26:41
And if if you've been in the accounting world, you know what
26:45
this event is. It's the biggest event where the
26:47
students go meet the hiring firms and it's the time to shake
26:50
hands and introduce yourself. And as barista was super
26:53
nervous, he was talking to his Co worker like I don't know what
26:56
to say. What should I wear?
26:58
I don't know what to expect. And it just the coincidence of
27:01
him being right there and me sitting in that coffee shop was
27:05
crazy. I, I called him over.
27:06
I said, hey, couldn't ever put over here you, you know,
27:11
introduced who I was and sat him down.
27:13
We talked for a good half an hour, 45 minutes.
27:15
And he he really felt good after that conversation.
27:18
Ended up getting a job not too long after.
27:21
So that was kind of proof of the concept of what I was trying to
27:25
accomplish. And you know, going back to you
27:28
sitting in front of spreadsheets all day, that felt so fulfilling
27:33
compared to my previous work. So I was hooked ever since that
27:37
happened. It was.
27:38
That's what I knew. For you, that was kind of like
27:40
proof of concept. Yeah.
27:42
Like I can do this and there's a need for it and I'm.
27:45
I'm good at it. And so that it sounds like that
27:48
person wasn't a paying client that was just sort of like you
27:51
validating the process. So how did you get that first
27:54
client who actually took money out of their pocket and gave it?
27:58
To you yeah. So it was a lot of hustle, lot
28:02
of online hustle. So you already mentioned
28:04
LinkedIn, you know, you got to be posting content.
28:07
You have to let people know who you are as an entrepreneur, you
28:12
learn that you got to give a lot of free stuff out first to kind
28:17
of prove who you are, prove you know what you're talking about
28:19
before someone trusts you enough to put money in your pocket.
28:23
So I think my first clients was a client from Reddit.
28:27
It was a, it was a Reddit thread talking about, Hey, what's up
28:31
with resumes? How do I do this?
28:33
And so I gave some advice, left a few comments, we started DM
28:37
ING and then I told him, Hey, 20 bucks, I can do your resume and
28:42
20 bucks Now thinking about that, you know, that's very low
28:45
price these days. So but yeah, I know I was very
28:48
happy. It was another proof of concept
28:50
sort of thing. It made me feel like I was, I
28:53
was definitely on the right track.
28:55
And and after that, it just became, it became fluid right
28:59
after you get those first few reviews on Google, that's when
29:03
it starts working out. OK, so again, without giving
29:08
away the trade secrets, tell us some of the the low hanging
29:12
fruit for folks in the accounting space that are
29:14
working on their resumes. What are some of the most common
29:17
mistakes that you see people make?
29:19
The most common mistake is putting your whole life story on
29:23
a resume, and I'm actually teaching a class about this
29:26
tomorrow at one of the colleges here.
29:29
The resume should be able to deliver as much information
29:32
about your relevant skills and experience in the shortest
29:37
amount of time. In other words, you should be
29:40
able to pick up the resume and within a few seconds know if
29:43
this person is qualified not for the job, but qualified to move
29:48
on to the next round, which is the interview round.
29:50
So people tend to put their whole life story, they put 20
29:54
years of experience on there. I'm like, come on, dude.
29:56
Like you just need the last five to 10 years and whatever's
29:59
relevant. So I don't need to know about
30:00
your Subway sandwiches experience if you're applying
30:04
for a tax manager rule, right? And then another thing is
30:08
quantifiable metrics. So you know, how many tax
30:14
returns do you prepare? How many clients do you have
30:16
face to FaceTime with? And if you're not a
30:18
professional, maybe you're a student.
30:20
What's your GPA? What was the highest grade in
30:24
your tax class? Or how many people were in your
30:27
group when you did that group project?
30:29
These are all quantifiable metrics that give the resume
30:32
some weight, some some, you know, it that that extra level?
30:40
What's the word I'm looking for? It will come to me in a second.
30:43
But it's better than just telling a story.
30:47
It's much better to have the story with those metrics, with
30:50
those numbers, those that real tangible result.
30:55
Do you stick to the rule that CB has to be one page?
31:01
Now you're getting controversial, Anthony.
31:03
I like it. Yes, for the most part.
31:05
I do recommend a one page resume.
31:07
It's just cleaner that way. Unless you are an executive, if
31:11
you are going for maybe senior manager or director, principal
31:17
or even I do partner resumes too, then it's OK to have two
31:21
pages again, as long as it's relevant to the job that you're
31:25
applying for. I don't want to hear about, you
31:28
know, you coaching soccer on the weekend on your resume, right?
31:32
I just need to know that you have the skills, you have the
31:34
experience. Let's get you an interview.
31:37
Yeah, on. We're talking about your
31:40
clients. You've got 2 sets of clients,
31:41
right? You got the folks that you're
31:42
coaching to find the jobs and to move through and advance in
31:46
their career. And then you've got the
31:47
companies where you're helping to place candidates with them.
31:52
Are most of those clients public accounting firms?
31:55
Is that primarily who you work with?
32:00
It's actually a pretty good split right now.
32:02
If you're asking, Anthony, if I'm understanding you correctly,
32:05
you're wondering if most of my clients are hiring firms versus
32:08
career coaching clients? Yeah, I get no, no, no, no.
32:12
Thinking specifically about the side of the business where a
32:16
company is hiring you to play somebody with them.
32:20
I want to get an idea of who that client is, who's a good fit
32:23
for you on that side of the business.
32:25
Gotcha, gotcha. So this is a client who just
32:28
needs help hiring it because they either don't have enough
32:32
time to to set up the whole process, the job posts, the
32:37
interviews, keeping track of everything, or it's someone
32:43
who's tried and failed time and time again.
32:46
They're just not getting any traction or they're not getting
32:50
the quality candidates that they think they're asking for.
32:53
You know, usually there's a disconnect.
32:55
Maybe they're not posting the right terms in the job listing.
33:00
Maybe you know, what happens is I, I asked them all the details
33:05
of, of the job, the benefits, the salary, the PTO, and I start
33:10
uncovering things that they thought weren't important, but
33:14
they actually are. They're things that people want
33:16
to know about. You know, how does your firm
33:19
celebrate success? You know, in the tax industry,
33:21
we have deadlines. So how do you celebrate the
33:23
deadline? Do you have deadline party?
33:24
Do you have yacht parties? Do you do team barbecues, things
33:28
like that? This is what people want to know
33:29
just beyond the compensation package.
33:32
So the type of client that I think I can help the most is
33:36
just, you know, the client who who's who's trying and not
33:40
getting anywhere or they just too busy.
33:44
They need to call in the big guns.
33:45
Someone like me, someone who is ACPA, who can talk the talk,
33:50
speak the language and really get technical with the
33:52
interviews. So it may be an accounting firm,
33:55
it may be a company that you know, they're not their
33:58
specialty is an accounting, but they need an accountant
34:00
internally could be any, any of those.
34:04
Yes, as long as it's in the accounting space.
34:07
I will say most of my clients are public accounting firms, but
34:10
I have placed industry private account accountants as well.
34:14
OK. So Resitech still relatively new
34:17
company doing well, about two years old.
34:20
What do you think the firm looks like at Year 5, if things go the
34:25
way that you predict? Year 5 I will be on a beat with
34:32
a coconut and the company will run itself.
34:36
No just kidding no. So I see resi check being a
34:41
multi state operation and the reason I say that is because
34:45
every location for example Orange County is very different
34:49
than LA. The firms in Orange County, in
34:52
my opinion, are a little bit more empathetic to candidates in
35:00
PTO versus in LA. It's more of a hustle culture.
35:03
So I see Rezi Check spreading across, you know, Nashville,
35:09
Denver, across the globe, and having specific offices that
35:16
focus on that niche, that culture.
35:20
I want it to be a place where candidates can feel free to come
35:25
in, ask for help, ask for advice, meet with a person and I
35:31
want I want Rezi Check to be synonymous with quality, whether
35:36
it's quality candidates or quality career coaching.
35:42
How do you think you bridge from where you are to where you want
35:45
to? Because right now this is built
35:47
around you, right? CPA who can screen things
35:50
technically if you thought about what that scaling looks like.
35:56
I thought about it. It's scary, you know, as an
35:58
entrepreneur, you're wondering what's next.
36:00
Like, how do I do this? Right.
36:02
So I'm capped at 10 candidates right now.
36:07
And if I'm going to increase that cap, I'm going to need some
36:11
help. So it might be time for me to
36:12
start hiring someone for my company one of these days.
36:15
That's eventually going to be the next move.
36:20
But yeah, so it's, it's, it's an ever changing, evolving
36:25
situation, right? Like you said, I'm, I'm just
36:28
under two years. If I'm around in five years,
36:33
which I know I will be, well, I still be focusing on recruiting
36:38
or something else at that point. My guess is I'm going to be
36:42
staying in this in this world for a long time because I this
36:45
is my niche. This is where I live now.
36:47
Are there thoughts to add additional services, additional
36:51
areas of focus? 100% I have partners asking me
36:56
if I can do executive coaching for some of their staff.
37:01
I, I do ongoing career coaching. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm
37:04
teaching a class at a college tomorrow, tomorrow.
37:06
So there are other revenue streams.
37:10
But you know, one of these days you need to kind of sit down
37:13
and, and carve out exactly what you want to do so that your
37:17
attention is not taken elsewhere in places that might detract you
37:22
from your overall goal. Right?
37:24
That's, that's the key. I love doing the teaching.
37:26
I love career coaching. So it's it's a constant battle
37:32
between the two. Yeah.
37:34
I want to ask you a couple of questions about AI.
37:37
Cameron, get your take on this. First of all, are you using it
37:40
in any way in your own business currently?
37:44
Yes, absolutely. I think, you know, in order to
37:48
be an entrepreneur these days, you need to be leveraging some
37:50
sort of AI and it's just it's, it's a way to streamline
37:59
automatic tasks or streamline repetitive tasks.
38:02
And that's what I love about it. It's funny because I used to be
38:05
considered a really good writer, right?
38:08
I was in the 90th percentile in the G mapper, verbal and
38:11
writing. And now when I send a really
38:13
nice e-mail, people think it's AI and I'm like, OK, so you
38:16
know, I'm not getting any credit anymore.
38:19
But just touching your emails now is what I love.
38:22
Looking for factual errors, looking for punctuation errors,
38:25
things like that. And I don't know if this
38:28
qualifies as AI, but things like Zapier to automate certain
38:31
things. So when someone sends me a
38:33
resume, it's automatically put in the right folder.
38:36
It's, it's, it's very, it's very good for organization, for, for
38:44
career coaching. I highly recommend, for example,
38:47
if you're a candidate trying to find a job, I'd highly recommend
38:50
using AI to practice your interview skills.
38:54
So you can have a mock interview with AI now.
38:57
And that's, that's one of the best ways to get the jitters
38:59
out, to get the bugs out. And you can even give it the,
39:02
the job description of the job that you are interviewing for
39:06
and it could give you custom questions.
39:08
I will say that there's no way to 100% prepare for an
39:11
interview, right? You're never going to know
39:12
exactly what question they're going to ask, but you can at
39:15
least get the most common ones out of the way.
39:16
So I highly recommend that to the to the candidates.
39:19
So the way that you're talking about using it, it's still
39:22
through a chat interface. You're kind of feeding in your
39:25
resume, you're feeding it with the job description is and
39:28
saying, hey, you know, hit me with some sample interview
39:31
questions and so I can practice my answers.
39:35
But there's not like a tool where there can be sort of like
39:38
a a live dialogue, so to speak. So I think ChatGPT has that live
39:43
dialogue. I think they have that now.
39:46
There are other companies I. Think you're right?
39:48
Yeah, if you haven't tried it, you gotta give it a shot.
39:50
It's really cool. And you don't need to be talking
39:53
about getting a job either. You can talk about the weather
39:56
or you know how to ski and it will talk me right through it.
40:00
But I, I think what you're also referring to is specific AI just
40:04
dedicated for interview prep, which we'll actually talk back
40:07
to you. So there's two things with that.
40:10
There's one version for the candidates kind of like we were
40:12
just talking about, which actually can see kind of does
40:14
where your candidate you want to practice and it's back and forth
40:17
dialogue. There's another tool that some
40:21
firms are using, not any of the firms that I work with, but some
40:25
firms are using a tool that will screen the candidate using AI
40:30
and that's got a lot of backlash.
40:32
So I don't know if, if you want to imagine for a second, you're
40:35
applying for a job, you submit the resume and of course they
40:39
want you to type everything out in their, in their custom form
40:42
as well. It's not good enough that you
40:44
just send the resume. They want you to retype it and
40:46
you, you get a call or schedule a call with an AI Rep and that
40:53
rubs some people the wrong way. It makes them feel like the
40:58
company doesn't care enough about them to speak with them
41:02
personally. So it's tough, you know, you
41:06
have to ask yourself as a candidate, what is my threshold?
41:09
What is my, you know, how, how soon do I need this position?
41:15
And am I willing to go through an AI process and, and do the
41:19
whole thing or if I'm, if I'm done with this and you know,
41:22
tried in next time? So I understand this
41:26
conversation from both sides of the table.
41:28
So I've heard folks before where I've gotten in excess of 100
41:33
resumes and at that point it just wasn't.
41:38
And this was before, you know, some of the AI tools that we
41:40
have now at that point, it's it's just not feasible to for a
41:45
human being to go through that and even consider all of them.
41:48
So, you know, a few years ago when I was in that position, to
41:51
be able to feed that into some sort of a tool that is going to
41:54
take over a lot of that work for me, man, that's awesome.
41:57
But the flip side of that is if I'm the one looking for a job,
42:01
right? And I've been assigned some kind
42:03
of robot to talk to, that feels dehumanizing, right?
42:09
It's like, I mean, because part of what you want in an interview
42:13
is what was your gut feeling with the person?
42:16
What was it like to interact with them?
42:19
Did they feel genuine? I don't know, maybe I'm wrong,
42:24
but I don't know that that's really what the AI is good at
42:27
doing right now. I think it's probably looking
42:30
more for speech patterns. Like were you saying the right
42:35
kinds of words? I don't know what.
42:37
What's your thought on this, Cameron?
42:39
A few things there. Let me let me talk to one thing
42:41
you said, the feeling of wanting to hear the person and see if
42:45
they're a good fit. I want your listeners to know
42:48
that an interview goes both ways.
42:50
So it's not just the firm trying to see if the candidate's a good
42:53
fit. As a candidate, you got to
42:55
remember you're interviewing them too, so you got to see if
42:58
they're a good fit for your life.
42:59
So that's another reason why I think face to face or voice
43:01
human to human is a better route.
43:05
Back to your question about AI interviews, it it's funny
43:09
because you know, a lot of a lot of places are legally not
43:14
allowed to make a hiring decision based off AI, right?
43:17
So you can't have AI reject anyone.
43:21
So you have what they're doing is they're using AI to filter
43:25
based on keywords or by match. And so, so that's the main focus
43:32
of AI in recruiting, right? So there's a rumor out there
43:35
that AI is just going to reject you automatically.
43:37
That's not true. But.
43:39
Depending on how your resume is written, it can filter certain
43:42
resumes in or out depending on the key words.
43:44
Back to the AI interview, I feel like it's almost double work for
43:52
the recruiter. If they use an AI module to
43:55
interview a candidate, that recruiter has to then watch the
43:58
playback and determine if they're a good fit.
44:02
So it's kind of like, why don't you just interview them in the
44:06
first place? Why not just have the human to
44:08
human connection right there from the very beginning?
44:11
Yeah. And it's, it's a symptom of a
44:13
new technology that we just want to put everywhere.
44:15
So maybe we we overshot there and we're going to reel it back
44:18
soon. But that's kind of where we're
44:19
at now. And I want to go back to
44:22
something you just said, because I've had friends that have
44:25
applied for jobs, they click the submit button and within a split
44:31
second they get a rejection e-mail back.
44:34
And so I think this is what you're talking about where
44:36
they're filtering for certain keywords.
44:40
What coaching, generalized coaching, can you provide around
44:44
that? Great question.
44:46
Let me answer in two parts #1 if you get kicked out within
44:50
minutes or I don't know, maybe a couple hours, there's a chance
44:54
that you might have answered a knockout question incorrectly
44:57
and that will automatically knock you out.
44:59
For example, if the firm that you're applying to cannot
45:03
sponsor visas, but you mark, yes, I require visa sponsorship,
45:09
that's legal. That's an automatic knockout.
45:12
So that might be happening. Back to your question.
45:17
So what you need to do when you're applying, when you're
45:21
submitting a resume is you need to match the resume with the job
45:24
listing. What I mean by that is you need
45:27
to borrow keywords and phrases from the job listing and update
45:32
your resume with those same keywords, those same phrases.
45:34
Assuming you have that experience.
45:36
You do not ever want to lie on your resume, right?
45:39
It's OK to estimate, never fabricate.
45:41
That's what I said. So when you feed that newly
45:46
updated resume into the system, the system has a copy of the job
45:50
listing. So they have all the keywords
45:51
and the phrases and they're going to see how closely your
45:54
resume matches with that job listing.
45:57
And if you used enough of those keywords, if you match that
46:00
experience and skill, it's probably going to float your
46:03
resume up to the top. So that's my advice and I know
46:07
what you're thinking in Cameron, I got to do that for every job
46:10
I'm applying to. I'm, I'm applying to 50 some
46:12
people 100 job. I'm not saying that.
46:15
What I'm saying is you do want to do that for maybe the top
46:18
five firms that you're applying to the the ones that you really,
46:21
really, really want to get into. Other than that, beyond that,
46:24
you can use a general resume. Just know the more detailed you
46:28
get, the more you can match that resume to the job listing, the
46:31
higher chance you have. Well, and I guess I might even,
46:35
this isn't my area of expertise, but I'm always a fan of put in
46:39
the extra effort, right? If this is a job that you want
46:42
and, and that's kind of what you're saying, you're like, hey,
46:45
you know, so if it's a job you're sort of kicking the
46:47
tires, go, OK, send the general resume.
46:49
But if you're going to spend the time to apply to the job
46:52
anyways, you know, put in a little bit of extra elbow grease
46:56
so that you're putting your best foot forward.
46:58
Give yourself the best chance possible. 100% and I'll say
47:03
this, the old days of just throwing in your resume and
47:06
getting a call back are are not here.
47:07
They're they're over. You got to do more.
47:11
You have to network online on LinkedIn, You have to go the
47:15
extra mile. I recommended one of my client,
47:18
one of my candidates bring Donuts to the front desk.
47:22
But see, because you couldn't get past the front desk.
47:24
So you have to think outside the box and think you mentioned
47:27
this, you will be rewarded for going the extra mile.
47:30
I like that Donuts to the front desk because right, I've heard
47:35
from so many people trying to apply for jobs, the same
47:38
complaint. It's like I don't even get the a
47:41
chance to talk to a human. I just get rejected outright.
47:44
And I'm, you know, a little bit old school in some ways, though,
47:48
I love the technology. I'm like, how can you find a way
47:54
to make a personal connection? You know it?
47:56
Are they geographically close to you where you can go in, take a
48:00
box, the Donuts, something right?
48:03
Like, show up in person, do the thing that nobody else is taking
48:06
the extra effort to do. 100% and if you're not in the same state,
48:11
that shouldn't stop you. You can still message them on
48:14
LinkedIn. You know, that's, that's my go
48:17
to. As much hate as LinkedIn gets
48:19
these days, that's the best way to network and to cold open with
48:23
some of these some of these firms.
48:25
So yeah, you got to go the extra mile.
48:27
Back in my day, you just applied and you got a call back.
48:29
And that was Those are the good old days, huh?
48:33
All right. I want to switch gears on, you
48:35
know, Cameron, I want to talk about one of the most
48:38
challenging things that you've ever had to overcome personally
48:42
and what that taught you. Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a
48:47
good question. I've had a lot of challenges in
48:49
my life. And, you know, the one that
48:53
comes to mind is, you know, it might not seem like it was that
48:58
bad on the outside, but as someone you know who I am, it
49:01
was it's pretty tough. And this was back when I was in
49:04
college for my master's program and I the first semester I was
49:11
on academic probation. Anthony, Can you believe that?
49:14
It was not nice. It was is I was having too much
49:18
fun. I was letting my
49:20
responsibilities go and I got that letter saying, hey, man,
49:23
your grades aren't up high enough or you're going to get
49:25
kicked out if you don't, if you don't do better.
49:28
And that was a wake up call. And it really threw me into a
49:31
spiral of depression, Anthony because I, you know, my family
49:35
is an immigrant family. And if you know anything about
49:38
people who come to America, they want their kids to get straight
49:41
A's. I need to be a doctor or lawyer.
49:43
So I was already not a doctor lawyer.
49:45
So I was already, you know, very high pressure situation.
49:49
And what I had to do was I had to basically pivot my whole
49:55
life. I had to stop saying yes to all
49:58
these social events. I had to start going to study
50:02
groups. I had to basically lock myself
50:07
in the room and just get my life in order.
50:10
And eventually I got my first A in economics the next semester
50:16
and I was so happy the way that it just sit.
50:19
They brought life back to my soul and I told myself I could
50:22
do this. This is possible.
50:24
The work I was putting in is creating the the desired output
50:30
and that was enough for me. So you know, it was tough
50:35
getting over that hump because this is your career, right?
50:38
If you're studying for accounting and you know you're
50:40
going to be CTA, this is basically your career.
50:41
And it was a huge wake up call. And I try to apply that now with
50:47
everything in my life. So if something's not going the
50:51
way I wanted to, I have to do a little self inventory.
50:54
What am I doing right? What am I doing wrong?
50:56
Let's do more right things than wrong.
50:58
Let's pivot. Let's say no to those parties,
51:00
you know, let's say no to Taco Tuesday or $2.00 margaritas.
51:05
Let's focus on our goals and how to achieve them and that I carry
51:10
with me everyday. So I can see how that would be
51:13
really tough, right? There's these outside pressures
51:15
from your family and these expectations.
51:18
You'd already chosen a path that was not sort of the preferred
51:21
path. And now here you are on the
51:24
verge of being kicked out of college your first semester.
51:28
That weighs on you heavily, right?
51:30
I mean, that's a real gut punch. What do you think?
51:33
Actually, I mean, that's the wake up call, but what do you
51:37
think was, I don't know the propellant that told you this is
51:42
what you actually had to do? The propellant that told me this
51:47
is what I actually have to do. I looked around, I looked at my,
51:52
my bet, my one of my good friends who was in the classroom
51:54
and he got an A on these exams and I was not getting as I saw
51:58
my other friends not joining us at the bar because they were
52:01
going to study groups. So for me, I just had to look
52:04
around. I was surrounded by people who
52:08
were great examples and I was so focused on just having fun,
52:14
having a good time partying that I, I lost track of that.
52:18
So it's, it's one of those just things you have to grow out of.
52:24
I don't know if you ever had any fun like that in college.
52:27
Anthony, did you? We're going to leave the the
52:30
conversation focused on you today, Cameron.
52:32
I'm going to complete the. 5th All right.
52:35
Yeah, OK. But you know, I think just a
52:39
couple more questions here. What's your favorite thing to do
52:41
outside of work? I love skiing.
52:45
I used to be a snowboarder snowboarder for 20 years and
52:48
just recently switched to skiing.
52:49
So it's physical activity, it's outdoors.
52:52
I love nature. All right, that sounds like a
52:56
good time. Just one more question for you
52:58
today, Cameron. But before I ask it, I want to
53:00
do 3 quick things for the audience.
53:02
First of all, to get in touch with Cameron for query, got a
53:06
couple options here. First, you can go to his
53:08
website, whichisrezzycheck.com, REZZ, ycheck.com, rezzycheck.com
53:14
and also find him on LinkedIn. And the username on LinkedIn is
53:19
just C for query CFAKOURI. And if you didn't catch that,
53:25
that's all right, folks. It's going to be in the show
53:27
notes. All those links will be there in
53:28
the show notes. Speaking of the show, if you're
53:31
enjoying it today, please take a moment to subscribe wherever
53:34
you're listening. It also sends a signal that
53:36
helps others discover our podcast.
53:38
So I appreciate you taking a quick moment to do that right
53:41
now. And as a reminder, you can be
53:45
the hero advisor that helps clients give their employees
53:47
access to therapists, doctors and prescription meds that
53:51
counter intuitively increases their net profits, real gains
53:55
that can change how a business is valued.
53:57
So contact us today at adbackbenefits.com.
54:01
Last question for you, Cameron. A year from now, what is 1 very
54:04
specific thing that you hope to be celebrating?
54:09
Well, my wedding for one, I think I mentioned earlier before
54:13
a call I had a fiance. We're doing our thing.
54:17
I also want to celebrate, you know, business related 105 star
54:21
reviews on resi checks. Right now we're at about 35
54:25
after a year or so. So next year I'm hoping to
54:30
triple that, hopefully more. So we'll see.
54:32
All right, that's a fun one. Well, Cameron for Curry from
54:36
Resi Check, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing
54:38
both your time and your story with us today.
54:41
I really appreciate you being here.
54:44
Hey, my pleasure, Anthony. Thanks for having me.
54:46
Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
54:49
podcast. Thanks for learning with us.
54:51
And if one thing stood out, put that into action today.