Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 243: A Deer Hunter’s Guide To Wind and Thermals with Ryan Furrer

Transcript

Ep. 243: A Deer Hunter’s Guide To Wind and Thermals with Ryan Furrer · Wired To Hunt Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for
0:06
Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
0:11
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
0:16
Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number two
0:18
Speaker 1: hundred and forty three in Today in the show, I'm
0:21
Speaker 1: joined by Ryan four of the CUDU May to take
0:24
Speaker 1: a very advanced look at how wind, thermals and air
0:28
Speaker 1: currents impact deer and deer hunting. Before we get to
0:48
Speaker 1: the show, they want to give a quick thank you
0:50
Speaker 1: to our friends at Lacrosse Boots for their support of
0:53
Speaker 1: this podcast episode. I've been wearing the Alpha Burley Pros
0:57
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1:00
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1:02
Speaker 1: the test this past week as we are down to
1:05
Speaker 1: temperatures into thirties. That's the coldest I have wornament so
1:08
Speaker 1: far this year and it wasn't an issue at all.
1:12
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1:15
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1:18
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1:21
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1:23
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1:25
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1:32
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1:34
Speaker 1: the market for new boots, head on over to Lacrosse
1:36
Speaker 1: Footwear dot com to learn more. All right, welcome to
1:40
Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Onyx.
1:44
Speaker 1: And today in the show, we're going deep into the
1:47
Speaker 1: weeds on a single topic, and that topic is wind
1:50
Speaker 1: and thermals and air currents and all these things and
1:54
Speaker 1: how they impact how dear smell and how you and
1:57
Speaker 1: I should be hunting. And joining us to have this
1:59
Speaker 1: discussion is an avid deer hunter and the Equality Deer
2:02
Speaker 1: Management Association's Senior Regional Director and field Supervisor, Ryan Furrer.
2:08
Speaker 1: And Ryan is a guy who is hunting mature deer
2:10
Speaker 1: all across the country and he studied this craft under
2:13
Speaker 1: some of the very best hunters out there. And one
2:16
Speaker 1: of the keys that Ryan is so successful is because
2:19
Speaker 1: he's gone above and beyond the average hunter's understanding of
2:24
Speaker 1: this topic of wind, thermal's how dear smell. Ryan is
2:29
Speaker 1: an absolute wind and thermal junkie, So it just seemed
2:32
Speaker 1: to me that he would be the perfect guy to
2:33
Speaker 1: help us get into the nitty gritty of this topic,
2:36
Speaker 1: which which is really of of the utmost importance for
2:39
Speaker 1: deer hunters. That there might not be a single thing
2:41
Speaker 1: more important for deer hunters than understanding wind and how
2:44
Speaker 1: these deer smell, because the nose is most of us know.
2:47
Speaker 1: The white tail's nose is this number one defense mechanism,
2:50
Speaker 1: and if we want to get close to these deer,
2:53
Speaker 1: especially mature buck, we have to find some way to
2:56
Speaker 1: avoid their nose, or fool their nose, or take advantage
2:59
Speaker 1: of some kind of weak is that they have, because
3:00
Speaker 1: there's not very many weaknesses. So Ryan is going to
3:03
Speaker 1: give us a level of in depth knowledge on this
3:06
Speaker 1: topic that I don't think we've ever gotten to before
3:08
Speaker 1: on the podcast. I'm very excited about that. With this
3:12
Speaker 1: being the case, so I do want to point out
3:14
Speaker 1: that if you are a brand new hunter, if you're
3:16
Speaker 1: just getting into it, or if maybe you haven't started
3:18
Speaker 1: hunting yet, you're intrigued, there's this it's likely. I guess
3:21
Speaker 1: I was gonna say there's a chance, but it's probably
3:23
Speaker 1: just playing likely. That some of these concepts and details
3:26
Speaker 1: are going to get a little bit confusing for you.
3:28
Speaker 1: This is definitely an advanced kind of course that we're
3:31
Speaker 1: taking here today. So I'd recommend that if you fall
3:34
Speaker 1: into that camp, make sure that you go back and
3:36
Speaker 1: listen to some of the past podcasts, especially the Deer
3:40
Speaker 1: Hunter that's what is it Beginner's Guide to Deer Hunting podcast?
3:43
Speaker 1: I think that was episode two six. That's going to
3:46
Speaker 1: give you a brief introduction to understanding the wind and
3:48
Speaker 1: how that impacts deer hunting. Understand that first and just
3:51
Speaker 1: kind of try to wrap your head around that, trying
3:53
Speaker 1: to implement that before you get into this level of detail.
3:57
Speaker 1: Uh and even after that, if you come and you
3:59
Speaker 1: start listening to this one, don't get discouraged if this
4:01
Speaker 1: does seem a little daunting, you know, learn a deer
4:04
Speaker 1: hunt is a channel. There's a lot to it. And
4:06
Speaker 1: and that's why I do want to say one more
4:09
Speaker 1: thing to you new hunters out there. At a minimum,
4:12
Speaker 1: during this episode, fast forward listen to the last fifteen
4:15
Speaker 1: minutes of this one, because at that point in this
4:18
Speaker 1: show we actually pivot in topics and we end up
4:21
Speaker 1: talking about some of the programs that the Quality Deer
4:24
Speaker 1: Management Association is putting together to help mentor and bring
4:27
Speaker 1: new hunters into the full So there's a few different programs,
4:30
Speaker 1: a couple different ideas and suggestions about how you can
4:33
Speaker 1: get connected with folks who can help you learn how
4:35
Speaker 1: to hunt. I definitely want to make sure you guys
4:38
Speaker 1: hear about that. Now, for the rest of you that
4:40
Speaker 1: are into this kind of heavy detail, advanced wind kind
4:43
Speaker 1: of conversation, get ready for some very interesting stuff. And uh,
4:50
Speaker 1: we do have a very exciting bonus guest joining us
4:53
Speaker 1: today too. I'm not gonna say who it is yet,
4:55
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of make you guys wait
4:57
Speaker 1: and find this one out, but I will give you
4:59
Speaker 1: a clue. His name rhymes with burder Uh. So there's
5:02
Speaker 1: that to look forward to as well. Now that said,
5:05
Speaker 1: before we dive into this one, we do need to
5:08
Speaker 1: thank one of our partners who helped make this podcast possible,
5:11
Speaker 1: and that is Onyx. Onyx is the maker of the
5:14
Speaker 1: on X Hunt app and just a couple of days ago,
5:17
Speaker 1: our bonus guest for today's episode, burder Well. We were
5:20
Speaker 1: up at our Northern Michigan deer camp and on our
5:24
Speaker 1: second evening of that hunt, we decided to go and
5:26
Speaker 1: chase some hopefully chase some deer on some public land
5:30
Speaker 1: that we've never been on before. At the truck before
5:33
Speaker 1: we headed out to hunt, each of us pulled up
5:34
Speaker 1: our Onyx app and we marked our truck occasions so
5:37
Speaker 1: we knew where we had to come back to after dark.
5:39
Speaker 1: And then we each downloaded an off grid version of
5:41
Speaker 1: the map just in case we lost service, we would
5:43
Speaker 1: still be able to see the map, we'd still be
5:45
Speaker 1: able to see our location, and then we headed our
5:47
Speaker 1: separate ways. As I started walking, I turned on the
5:50
Speaker 1: tracker feature that the app has, which records your exact
5:54
Speaker 1: path as you walk along somewhere, which would allow me
5:57
Speaker 1: after dark to follow that same path all way back
6:00
Speaker 1: to the vehicle. Then, as I was sneaking into the timber,
6:03
Speaker 1: I had the Onyx app up, looking at it the
6:05
Speaker 1: whole time to see the arrow map on the phone
6:08
Speaker 1: and comparing that to what I was actually seeing in
6:10
Speaker 1: front of me, and I worked my way towards a
6:12
Speaker 1: certain terrain feature I saw on the map that I
6:14
Speaker 1: thought might be promising. Now I bring all this up.
6:17
Speaker 1: I mentioned all this because I think It's a great
6:19
Speaker 1: example of how handy and how often the Onyx hunt
6:22
Speaker 1: app can be used during a hunt like this. So
6:25
Speaker 1: if you'd like to check it out for yourself, head
6:27
Speaker 1: on over to your mobile app store of choice and
6:30
Speaker 1: search for Onyx. That's O n X. If you do
6:32
Speaker 1: end it purchasing in the maps, you can use promo
6:34
Speaker 1: code wired. That's W I R E D for off.
6:40
Speaker 1: All Right, I am here now with Ryan Furr and
6:44
Speaker 1: Josh further Hilliard on the line. Uh, this is gonna
6:48
Speaker 1: be this is gonna be a good time. And and Josh,
6:50
Speaker 1: you've you've been on a ton We don't need to
6:51
Speaker 1: introduce you too much. But Ryan, first time appearance in
6:54
Speaker 1: the show. Thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me.
6:58
Speaker 1: And and it's kind of interest. And this is gonna
7:00
Speaker 1: be an interesting dynamic because Kurt me if I'm wrong.
7:03
Speaker 1: But technically, uh, Ryan, you're you're Josh's boss, right, So
7:07
Speaker 1: if I tell you all the dirty secrets that Josh has,
7:09
Speaker 1: is that going to get him in trouble? Yeah? No, yeah,
7:14
Speaker 1: technically I am his boss, but no, it's definitely not
7:17
Speaker 1: going to get him in trouble. I'll be on my
7:21
Speaker 1: best behavior, Ryan, Yeah, yeah, definitely just getting what do
7:27
Speaker 1: you what do you think about the fact that that
7:29
Speaker 1: Josh has been has become iconic in the hunting world
7:32
Speaker 1: with a single name. When people here Further they know
7:36
Speaker 1: who this man is. Is that is that impressively? Yeah,
7:40
Speaker 1: that's that's awesome. You know, like one of the first
7:42
Speaker 1: times I heard that man, you gotta run with that
7:45
Speaker 1: further it is and he's like, no, no, no, it's
7:49
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe it's taken off. And
7:51
Speaker 1: you know, I think I've spent him a few text
7:53
Speaker 1: messages where I started out or end it was further.
7:56
Speaker 1: And then I even got a couple of people at
7:58
Speaker 1: the office, which actually my boss would be Josh's boss's
8:02
Speaker 1: boss sent I saw an email one time that he
8:04
Speaker 1: finished with hashtag further. So it's definitely picked up some
8:08
Speaker 1: speed there. It's just pretty cool. That is funny. I
8:11
Speaker 1: never would have thought back in high school. I get
8:13
Speaker 1: emails from people like addressing to further like not Josh,
8:17
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, Further, like I want to start a
8:19
Speaker 1: branch or what you know, what's going on at this event,
8:22
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh my gosh, just ridiculous. We need
8:26
Speaker 1: a t shirt. Yeah, yeah, we really do. Um, so,
8:30
Speaker 1: so I guess I'll take of those profits. I might
8:33
Speaker 1: have to negotiate that down a little bit, Josh, but
8:36
Speaker 1: I'll give you a good handshake and a slap on
8:38
Speaker 1: the back, how about that? Um? But Ryan, could you
8:43
Speaker 1: give us a little bit of an introduction that kind
8:45
Speaker 1: of cliff notes that I usually like to try to
8:47
Speaker 1: get here as far as, um, what you're doing since
8:50
Speaker 1: you you're your further's boss, but what does that mean?
8:52
Speaker 1: And um? And how did you kind of get to
8:54
Speaker 1: this point? Look, I'd like to hear a little bit
8:55
Speaker 1: about your personal journey too real quick yes or um? Yeah?
9:01
Speaker 1: So what am I doing as far as with kid have?
9:04
Speaker 1: I'm basically I oversee the regional director. So Johnson is
9:07
Speaker 1: a regional director for probably a germ management association. And
9:10
Speaker 1: there's uh the eight others asigned from himself, and you know,
9:15
Speaker 1: they basically you know, are the grassroots there in touch
9:18
Speaker 1: with the volunteers uh out there and kt M a
9:21
Speaker 1: land doing their stuff, and Josh is kind of the
9:24
Speaker 1: liaison between them and the home office making sure that
9:27
Speaker 1: the eyes are dotted in the teaser across, so to speak,
9:29
Speaker 1: whether it be grassroots fundraising, educational events, you know, habitat
9:34
Speaker 1: management type stuff. You know, all facets really, man and
9:37
Speaker 1: regional director is a pretty interesting job because you know,
9:40
Speaker 1: you wear so many different hats at any given any
9:43
Speaker 1: different times of the year, obviously, but umb, so I
9:46
Speaker 1: oversee those guys, um, you know, make sure that furthers
9:49
Speaker 1: out there doing what he needs to be doing and
9:51
Speaker 1: uh and such. So that's, in a nutshell, that's what
9:55
Speaker 1: I do, among other things at the home office responsibilities
9:58
Speaker 1: as well. So so so I understand you have an interesting
10:02
Speaker 1: kind of history as a hunter though too. Um. I've
10:05
Speaker 1: heard rumors that you've spent a lot of time with
10:06
Speaker 1: the Wenzels maybe back in the day, and you've kind
10:08
Speaker 1: of been all over the country hunting and shooting term
10:11
Speaker 1: and archery and stuff. Can you fill in the gas
10:14
Speaker 1: on that? Yeah, um, I guess you know. It's I'm
10:21
Speaker 1: really fortunate to work, you know, for the Quality of
10:24
Speaker 1: Deer Management Association. I say that because everything I've ever
10:28
Speaker 1: done in my life, one way, shape or form, is
10:31
Speaker 1: revolved around a white tail deer, even from an early age.
10:33
Speaker 1: So I started shooting archery at about eight years old, um,
10:38
Speaker 1: only because I was just extremely fascinated with bow hunting.
10:41
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a bow hunter really bad. And um,
10:44
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, my parents weren't really hunters. Um My dad hunted.
10:49
Speaker 1: He was the type you know, he may hunt the
10:51
Speaker 1: first day of Pennsylvania gun season, you know, with the
10:53
Speaker 1: other one million hunters, um type of deal, but you know,
10:57
Speaker 1: never bow hunted or anything like that, and or whatever reason,
11:00
Speaker 1: I don't know why I was. I had a friend
11:02
Speaker 1: in you know, like uh, grade school that his dad
11:05
Speaker 1: owned a small archery shop and it was within walking
11:07
Speaker 1: distance to my house. It was just a little, you know,
11:10
Speaker 1: like twenty five by thirty building type of deal, like
11:12
Speaker 1: a garage, and I was just fascinated by everything in there,
11:16
Speaker 1: you know, the art, you know, the bows, airs, the broadhead,
11:19
Speaker 1: even the smell of I can still remember the smell.
11:22
Speaker 1: Um and it it literally, you know, it took my
11:26
Speaker 1: life over trying to be a deer hunter a bow hunter. Uh.
11:29
Speaker 1: And then on my own, so um, I started shooting
11:32
Speaker 1: a bow only to be a bow hunter. And then
11:34
Speaker 1: that kind of led into a couple of local tournaments
11:37
Speaker 1: you know, here and there, and then you know, I
11:39
Speaker 1: started traveling on weekends as it used to the bigger
11:42
Speaker 1: national three D tournaments this have been back and like, uh, um,
11:50
Speaker 1: you know, so I shot all facets of archery through
11:53
Speaker 1: the early nineties. I actually shot and end up doing
11:57
Speaker 1: pretty well at one time I think ranked third in
11:59
Speaker 1: the world. But as a as a youth archer three
12:01
Speaker 1: D archer. Uh, back then it was just the I
12:04
Speaker 1: v O of the a SA had probably just gotten started,
12:06
Speaker 1: so it was the impio more so back then. UM,
12:09
Speaker 1: I think my senior year in high school made me
12:11
Speaker 1: like the summer between my junior senior year, I decided
12:14
Speaker 1: that when I shot my first pro tournament. UM. So
12:18
Speaker 1: I shot my first pro tourament in Bedford, Indiana the
12:21
Speaker 1: I b O, which was pretty cool. I shot my
12:23
Speaker 1: first pro tourament with Randy Almer. You know, he's a
12:26
Speaker 1: kind of a legendary bow hunter, so I was placed
12:28
Speaker 1: in a group with him. Um it's you know, really neat,
12:31
Speaker 1: but you know, and then it just kind of grew
12:33
Speaker 1: from there. I did a longer student and a lot
12:35
Speaker 1: of hunting. Um. Somewhere around that same time, that nineteen
12:40
Speaker 1: time frame, I can't remember when, but I met Uh.
12:44
Speaker 1: I was uh, you know, kind of working in the industry,
12:47
Speaker 1: you know, going to shows and such with the archery industry.
12:50
Speaker 1: Uh in the summer. When I say working, it wasn't
12:52
Speaker 1: like it was a real high paying job. It was
12:54
Speaker 1: just basically they needed somebody stand at the booth. So
12:56
Speaker 1: I went and did that, and they paid me like
12:59
Speaker 1: five blocks or something, bought me sandwiches. But uh I
13:03
Speaker 1: met uh I met uh uh fellow that was working
13:07
Speaker 1: for I believe it was Dart at the time, Dart
13:09
Speaker 1: Interactive Target Systems, the screens, the other darker ikes. I
13:13
Speaker 1: can't remember twenty plus years ago, but anyway, he was
13:17
Speaker 1: doing the same type of thing as I was. And
13:18
Speaker 1: I noticed his name. His last name was Winzel, and
13:22
Speaker 1: I was a huge Winzel fan from you know, in
13:25
Speaker 1: in high school when you put like your favorite movie
13:28
Speaker 1: and your senior you know, your your book type of deal.
13:32
Speaker 1: Mine was bo Hunting October White Gills. I remember, like
13:34
Speaker 1: I went to pretty big high school. Remember, everybody like,
13:37
Speaker 1: what's that? You know? And that was my favorite movie
13:39
Speaker 1: at the time. And anyway, this kid has his name,
13:42
Speaker 1: tax said Brat Wentzel, and I was like, you know,
13:45
Speaker 1: you know, working in the industry, I kind of, you know,
13:47
Speaker 1: going to know him the best and the relationship barrier
13:49
Speaker 1: games like yeah, buried my dad, Like, oh my god, kid,
13:52
Speaker 1: mean then you know him and I ended up becoming
13:55
Speaker 1: and still are, you know, best of friends. And through
13:58
Speaker 1: that you know him, I got you know, Matt Burry
14:01
Speaker 1: and Jean and uh, hunting with them and you know,
14:04
Speaker 1: hunting out with them and you know whatever, just about
14:07
Speaker 1: everything with them. And that's probably when I really started, Um,
14:12
Speaker 1: I guess hunting my my craft as far as if
14:16
Speaker 1: somebody would call it in another industry, I guess learning
14:19
Speaker 1: the skills of a white tail deer hunter. Before that,
14:22
Speaker 1: I like I've said it before, it's a couple of
14:25
Speaker 1: my buddies. And I was like a wolf. It was
14:27
Speaker 1: the law of large numbers. I just I thought like
14:29
Speaker 1: if the harder you hunted, the better the outcome would be.
14:32
Speaker 1: And I just basically just hunted every minute I could,
14:36
Speaker 1: you know. And I don't really know if there was
14:38
Speaker 1: any calculations or you know, methodical thinking behind anything I
14:43
Speaker 1: did back into the early days. It was just pure
14:45
Speaker 1: desire to be out there. And uh sometimes I even
14:49
Speaker 1: still hunt some of the same ground. And I remember,
14:52
Speaker 1: you know where I may have had a spot where
14:54
Speaker 1: I hunted in the ship my head thinking what was
14:55
Speaker 1: I thinking? And and other times I walked past spots
14:58
Speaker 1: that I didn't hunt with thinking, you know, man, what
15:00
Speaker 1: was I thinking? I remember this being all tour up
15:02
Speaker 1: with sign and I've walked through it to get somewhere else. Um,
15:05
Speaker 1: so yeah, I really I really started paying attention to
15:09
Speaker 1: the details, probably when I was around you know, nineteen,
15:12
Speaker 1: I guess, Um, so I'll be forty two this year,
15:14
Speaker 1: so I guess a little over twenty years. Um, really
15:18
Speaker 1: start paying attention to details, and probably more so than
15:21
Speaker 1: anything because of the Winzels and and even to take
15:24
Speaker 1: a step further, probably Barry uh really you know, hung
15:27
Speaker 1: out with him a good bit and learned a ton
15:29
Speaker 1: for very one. So he's I used to say, like
15:31
Speaker 1: the uh literally you know, like the Tiger Woods, you know,
15:35
Speaker 1: to golf and Michael Jordan's to basketball. He just he
15:38
Speaker 1: just had a knack that was really, I say, had
15:41
Speaker 1: just I just talked to him yesterday. He's seventy four
15:43
Speaker 1: and stilled on it. But um, he has a knack
15:46
Speaker 1: for figuring things out or seeing things in the woods
15:48
Speaker 1: that you know other people may overlook, or just thinking
15:51
Speaker 1: a little different. Really can't even I can't even describe,
15:54
Speaker 1: you know, and that's anybody you know, in any craft
15:57
Speaker 1: with a gift, they just they just have that that
15:59
Speaker 1: little bit of an edge. And he definitely didn't and
16:03
Speaker 1: definitely does a decent job explaining it as well. Mhm. Yeah, Well,
16:09
Speaker 1: so when it came to that that influential experience you
16:13
Speaker 1: had with Bear there and you're growing up and now
16:16
Speaker 1: you're in your twenties and you're starting, like you said,
16:19
Speaker 1: hone your craft. Was there any kind of ah ha
16:22
Speaker 1: moment that maybe he pointed out to you, or maybe
16:25
Speaker 1: you kind of figured out yourself as you started implementing
16:28
Speaker 1: some of his ideas when you were actually out there
16:30
Speaker 1: in the field that you're sitting at home and thinking
16:31
Speaker 1: about things like, I'm almost curious for people like when
16:34
Speaker 1: their light switched moment where they went from you know,
16:37
Speaker 1: struggling to to kill deer consistently to kill mature deer consistently,
16:41
Speaker 1: and then they flip the switch and they get this
16:42
Speaker 1: moment and they said, oh, if I start doing this
16:46
Speaker 1: big thing, or if I start thinking about this big
16:48
Speaker 1: thing and then everything kind of starts moving in a
16:50
Speaker 1: different direction. Do you have a moment like that, think
16:54
Speaker 1: of Yeah, definitely. Um, it's it's funny, but I can
16:58
Speaker 1: almost specifically put my finger on it. It was, you know,
17:02
Speaker 1: it was when I started to understand when and and
17:06
Speaker 1: how a deer used its nose, right, um, and then
17:10
Speaker 1: to take it a step further, when you I went
17:12
Speaker 1: into detail and breaking down how well it deer smells,
17:16
Speaker 1: you know, and and just in Layman's term, to try
17:18
Speaker 1: to be rather quick. You know, we have somewhere between
17:20
Speaker 1: five and six million old factory censors in our noses.
17:23
Speaker 1: A German shepherd has somewhere around two and a thirty
17:25
Speaker 1: eight million, and a wait till deer has somewhere around
17:28
Speaker 1: three thirty millions, so um, over three million anyway, But
17:33
Speaker 1: you know the point is, you know we know how
17:36
Speaker 1: well German shepherd smell. I mean, some German shepherds can
17:39
Speaker 1: detect cancer in humans faster than or quicker than in
17:45
Speaker 1: the world's most recent you know m R I machines
17:47
Speaker 1: and and you know cadaver dogs alerting to dead bodies
17:52
Speaker 1: through two hundred foot of revel in the World Trade
17:54
Speaker 1: Center disaster and that type of deal. So when you
17:57
Speaker 1: when you put it in a perspective that a deer
17:58
Speaker 1: actually can smell better than them. Um, it makes it's
18:03
Speaker 1: it's an eye opening, you know moment for you like, man,
18:06
Speaker 1: I really need my scent to be going somewhere other
18:10
Speaker 1: than that deer's nose or you mean you're especially for
18:12
Speaker 1: a bow hunter. Um, you know when you're when you're talking,
18:16
Speaker 1: you know, back in for me inside that thirty yard line.
18:18
Speaker 1: You know, you definitely have to pay attention to those
18:22
Speaker 1: those minor details that puts that in your favor. So
18:25
Speaker 1: it was, it was as soon as I started understanding
18:29
Speaker 1: the wind and direction, maybe not so much thermals at
18:32
Speaker 1: that point, but the air current because there's a difference
18:35
Speaker 1: between wind direction and air currents and how well it
18:38
Speaker 1: deer smells. And to do what I can to keep
18:41
Speaker 1: you know, an animal from smelling me is when you
18:43
Speaker 1: know my it probably went like I remember struggling just
18:47
Speaker 1: to to see a mature buck. You know, like even
18:50
Speaker 1: if I saw it off in the distance, I felt
18:52
Speaker 1: like I was succeeding, like, oh man, there's one wow, cool,
18:55
Speaker 1: you know, there's a hundred yards away. But whatever I
18:57
Speaker 1: finally saw, you know, and then then a mature buck
19:01
Speaker 1: was you know, a three year old. You know, if
19:04
Speaker 1: I saw a three year old. Back then, I was ecstatic, right,
19:07
Speaker 1: and then you can slowly and I started picking up
19:10
Speaker 1: on the little things, and you know, the next thing,
19:12
Speaker 1: you're seeing them quite you know, pre raggling, and you know,
19:15
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, you get that first one,
19:17
Speaker 1: it walks by ten yards and it's completely you know,
19:19
Speaker 1: you're you You've went undetected. It just it just flips,
19:24
Speaker 1: you know, and then you just start so many of
19:27
Speaker 1: them all home. I must start coming to you. And
19:28
Speaker 1: he usually come to me in the middle of the night.
19:30
Speaker 1: It's weird. I've I have woken up at you know,
19:33
Speaker 1: three am with a man. It's just like something that's
19:36
Speaker 1: clicked in my mind of of an area that I'm
19:38
Speaker 1: hunting on a ridgeline, you know, all this different stuff
19:41
Speaker 1: I had taken in, you know, maybe just from the
19:44
Speaker 1: last four or five trips walking around or whatever, and
19:46
Speaker 1: then something would just click and I know, I know
19:49
Speaker 1: now exactly where that stand needs to be and why
19:52
Speaker 1: and when you know on what wind and what's going on.
19:54
Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of those three o'clock in
19:57
Speaker 1: the morning. You couldn't have you couldn't have tied me
20:00
Speaker 1: up better because this topic that you just mentioned wind
20:03
Speaker 1: and thermals and air currents and and all that. That's
20:06
Speaker 1: what I'm really really interested in picking your brain about,
20:09
Speaker 1: because I know you've done a lot of thinking on
20:10
Speaker 1: this and a lot of work around this. Um. So
20:14
Speaker 1: to start things off, can you elaborate You mentioned a
20:17
Speaker 1: second ago that wind kind of wind direction is different
20:20
Speaker 1: than thermals, is different than air currents. Can you help
20:22
Speaker 1: us understand how those are different? And and I guess
20:25
Speaker 1: in the context of hunting, sure, Um, So you know,
20:31
Speaker 1: wind direction is basically whenever you you know, wake up
20:34
Speaker 1: and you check your favorite uh whether app or whatever
20:37
Speaker 1: you may be looking at it. You know, the winds
20:38
Speaker 1: out of the southwest this morning at seven miles an hour,
20:41
Speaker 1: so that's what you know. The direction the wind is
20:44
Speaker 1: coming from. So it's coming from the southwest and heading
20:46
Speaker 1: off to the northeast. Um, you know, that's your wind direction. UM.
20:51
Speaker 1: Air current especially, and it changes whenever topography changes. So
20:56
Speaker 1: you know, I've done a lot of hunting in the Midwest.
20:58
Speaker 1: As you have, UM, you know, gets flatter, so air
21:01
Speaker 1: current it becomes more steady in the Midwest because of
21:04
Speaker 1: flatter topography. But uh, you know, and the mountainous regions
21:09
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania, like where I grew up. I grew up
21:11
Speaker 1: hunting the big ridges, you know, steep ridges and deep valleys. Um,
21:15
Speaker 1: the air current you have to kind of think of
21:16
Speaker 1: the wind, you know, or the direction of the wind
21:19
Speaker 1: like water. Um. You know, then it hits those ridges
21:22
Speaker 1: and it creates eddies. And I've seen it do it
21:24
Speaker 1: with rocks. I've seen it clumps the trees. So you
21:27
Speaker 1: have the wind direction coming out of the southwest, and
21:31
Speaker 1: then the air current is what happens after. You know,
21:35
Speaker 1: you get that steady wind out of the southwest porcing
21:38
Speaker 1: against a ridge line and just creating you know, basically
21:41
Speaker 1: perpetual motion as it will. We're an eddy, you know,
21:44
Speaker 1: like in a stream, the waters that are editing in
21:46
Speaker 1: the current behind a rock or front of the rock
21:48
Speaker 1: or along or whatever it may be. And the stiffer
21:50
Speaker 1: the wind gets onto that direction obviously, you know, the
21:53
Speaker 1: more quote unquote perpetual motion that it creates. So uh,
21:58
Speaker 1: that's the current. Uh. And then also there's a drift
22:01
Speaker 1: to that. You know, when it picks up when you
22:02
Speaker 1: get higher speed like today, it's uh, it's all over
22:06
Speaker 1: you know, it's gusting like twenty five. So then you'll
22:09
Speaker 1: have this gust and then there's gusts will stop and
22:12
Speaker 1: you're having that columnist in between. But because of that
22:15
Speaker 1: that twenty five in our power, before of that gust,
22:18
Speaker 1: there's there's a drift effect. There's even there's still a
22:21
Speaker 1: current there um. And you can test that with milk
22:23
Speaker 1: weed um, you know, throwing it up. You know, right
22:26
Speaker 1: when a gust takes off, and watch what it does
22:29
Speaker 1: not being blown by you. And when whenever you feel
22:31
Speaker 1: that that wind basically shut off, you know, that gus
22:34
Speaker 1: shot off in between those you know, you may have
22:36
Speaker 1: two gusts, you know how like that calumn in the
22:38
Speaker 1: middle type of deal. But you'll still see that milk
22:40
Speaker 1: weak um. You know, it's doing crazy things because of
22:44
Speaker 1: of that drift effect or you know that perpetual motion
22:46
Speaker 1: if you will, there's still forced behind it um. And
22:49
Speaker 1: then you know it'll kind of dissipate. And then of
22:52
Speaker 1: a morning and I was watching this this morning, matter
22:54
Speaker 1: of facts, as the thermals, as the sun got more
22:57
Speaker 1: over hind, the thermals were heating up. Um. You know,
23:00
Speaker 1: like to say, like seven thirty eight this morning, my
23:03
Speaker 1: thermals were still falling close to my tree stand. So
23:06
Speaker 1: I had a pretty stiff wind um so my milk weed,
23:10
Speaker 1: so speak was going you know, a certain direction. The
23:13
Speaker 1: wind would die down, but the milk weed continue to
23:16
Speaker 1: float in that direction. But when it died out with
23:18
Speaker 1: no power behind it was interesting because the sun hadn't
23:21
Speaker 1: heating up the forest floor right where I was at.
23:23
Speaker 1: It wasn't it wasn't overhead enough. My thermals were still
23:27
Speaker 1: kind of falling. It was still colder down there, so
23:29
Speaker 1: it was literally suck that milk weed straight down to
23:32
Speaker 1: the ground. It was and I was kind of playing
23:35
Speaker 1: with the time and it just right to to do
23:37
Speaker 1: it in that that I don't know what to call it.
23:39
Speaker 1: That that lag of wind, you know, in between gust
23:42
Speaker 1: and whenever that that that milk we would run out
23:46
Speaker 1: of drift when run out of power behind it, the
23:49
Speaker 1: thermals would would pull it directly to the forest floor.
23:52
Speaker 1: Which is interesting to know what was going on, but
23:55
Speaker 1: it also was very learning to me. This isn't good.
23:57
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm trying to you know, did
24:00
Speaker 1: a deer than twenty five yards of me? You know, Mortson,
24:03
Speaker 1: My scent just dropped right you know where they're going
24:05
Speaker 1: to be standard types of deals. So um, when you
24:08
Speaker 1: start paying attention to that stuff and you know, it's uh,
24:12
Speaker 1: it's it's very helpful. Uh. Back in my early days,
24:15
Speaker 1: I used to build fires and and study fire and
24:18
Speaker 1: smoke um just too. And I would basically would create
24:23
Speaker 1: like a a smoke map and overlay over top of
24:26
Speaker 1: my maps just because I hunted such steep train that
24:30
Speaker 1: you know, just because it would say the wind out
24:32
Speaker 1: of the west. It don't necessarily wouldn't hunt like it
24:35
Speaker 1: was out of the west. It may hunt like it
24:36
Speaker 1: was out of the southeast and north. It's just because
24:39
Speaker 1: of the edding, edding, editing, edding effect. Um. So yeah,
24:45
Speaker 1: I would build fires on my platforms in like coffee cans,
24:49
Speaker 1: you know, in the off season, some you know, sometimes
24:52
Speaker 1: two or three times a day morning, noon, and evening
24:55
Speaker 1: on the same wind direction, and then do the same
24:57
Speaker 1: thing on a different wind direction. And you'd be amazed
25:00
Speaker 1: of what you would learn how smoke, you know, how
25:03
Speaker 1: the air currents you know, float around your tree stand
25:07
Speaker 1: um on different wind wind direction days and different times
25:11
Speaker 1: of day as well. And then also how like I say,
25:14
Speaker 1: clumps of trees or rocks or a hillside could cause
25:17
Speaker 1: the adding the effect. So you know, wind out of
25:19
Speaker 1: the north, you know that your smoke's going to the
25:22
Speaker 1: south of you. Then all of a sudden, you know,
25:23
Speaker 1: catch a ravine or catch a big clump of trees
25:25
Speaker 1: and start adding and you know, spin right around you
25:28
Speaker 1: and end up fifty yards to the north of you again,
25:31
Speaker 1: you know, and and do that all over again. Um.
25:35
Speaker 1: Interesting stuff for sure. Yeah, that's it's one of those
25:38
Speaker 1: things that I've heard, you know, like kneeling. Craig Doherty
25:41
Speaker 1: have talked about doing that kind of thing a lot,
25:43
Speaker 1: developing that wind map, and it it makes so much sense,
25:46
Speaker 1: but it does seem like a tremendous amount of work
25:48
Speaker 1: to go out there and map all that. But I
25:51
Speaker 1: guess once you have that information, once you know what
25:54
Speaker 1: it does, and maybe maybe you pick your handful of
25:57
Speaker 1: top spots and then you you know, make assumptions based Okay,
26:01
Speaker 1: we get most of our wins during hunting season, maybe
26:03
Speaker 1: northwest and west, so I'll go map those things out
26:06
Speaker 1: if that's at least a good starting point. Um, it
26:09
Speaker 1: seems like a great way to do it. You also,
26:10
Speaker 1: I think I've heard you say, um, you can use
26:13
Speaker 1: those little like fireworks, smoke bombs and stuff to achieve
26:15
Speaker 1: the same thing. Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, I would
26:19
Speaker 1: buy those things out at any time I saw them
26:21
Speaker 1: on cell. They used to make different songs. The little
26:24
Speaker 1: ones don't I don't think they they do. You know,
26:26
Speaker 1: there's little they're like little cherry bombs or whatever. They
26:28
Speaker 1: don't put off enough smoke. But they used to make
26:31
Speaker 1: bigger ones. Um. And then you know when I traveled,
26:34
Speaker 1: you know, through different states and they have those fireworks
26:36
Speaker 1: stands always stopped, and then they make them all sorts
26:38
Speaker 1: of different colors, but the bigger the better because they
26:40
Speaker 1: last longer. And like I said, if that doesn't work,
26:43
Speaker 1: I would, Uh. I've used those gun oil packs. Um,
26:47
Speaker 1: I've used con se caned. I mean, I've burned just
26:49
Speaker 1: about everything you can burn on the platform. But you're
26:52
Speaker 1: right as far as it's very time consuming. But the
26:56
Speaker 1: idea is I think I think the learning lesson from
26:58
Speaker 1: that is because I don't do it any more. I
27:00
Speaker 1: mean I've done in a little bit just to test
27:02
Speaker 1: some hypothesis type of deal. But the idea is to
27:06
Speaker 1: get an understanding for it and then like you say,
27:08
Speaker 1: pick those those certain spots or those certain situations where
27:12
Speaker 1: you know that you're not going to run in because
27:14
Speaker 1: you can eliminate those areas. Um. That's what I think
27:17
Speaker 1: I've probably taken from that the most was there's just
27:21
Speaker 1: some spots I don't hunt anymore, no matter how great
27:23
Speaker 1: the sign looks. Um. And again, you know, it depends
27:26
Speaker 1: on what age class of the year. Hunting too, I
27:28
Speaker 1: think has a big you know, there's a big difference
27:30
Speaker 1: between a two year old and a four year old
27:31
Speaker 1: and even a five year old or six year old.
27:33
Speaker 1: So you know, there's a lot of components that go
27:36
Speaker 1: into that. I wouldn't expect everybody to run out and
27:38
Speaker 1: you go, oh, I have to do it this way.
27:40
Speaker 1: You know, how often, you know, how much of the
27:42
Speaker 1: season do you have the devote to hunting, like if
27:44
Speaker 1: if if your seasons you know, six six and a
27:47
Speaker 1: half weeks, like in Pennsylvania, and you've only have a
27:50
Speaker 1: couple of weekends here and there in a couple of
27:52
Speaker 1: vacation days. Well, you know, you know, don't not hunt
27:55
Speaker 1: because the wind direction isn't suitable for your spot, you know,
28:00
Speaker 1: find another spot, or you know what, go and enjoy
28:02
Speaker 1: the day anyway. Type of deal. Um. So There's a
28:05
Speaker 1: lot of factors in there that go into you know,
28:07
Speaker 1: how often you can hunt the property you're hunting in.
28:10
Speaker 1: And I think probably one of the most important things
28:12
Speaker 1: is the age classes deer trying to hunt as well.
28:15
Speaker 1: If you're really trying to target on the specific book
28:17
Speaker 1: that you know is four or five, you know, plus,
28:19
Speaker 1: then you should probably pay attention to those details and
28:22
Speaker 1: put the put the odds in your favor as much
28:24
Speaker 1: as you can. Yeah. So I want to make sure
28:27
Speaker 1: and and further make sure I don't forget to do this.
28:29
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that we come back and
28:31
Speaker 1: talk about some of these stands that you end up
28:34
Speaker 1: writing off is saying, or stands or areas that you
28:36
Speaker 1: just find out you can't hunt because of something to
28:39
Speaker 1: do with the wind. Um. But I want to I
28:41
Speaker 1: want to rewind a little bit to just kind of
28:43
Speaker 1: set the stage a little bit better for people that
28:45
Speaker 1: maybe you're new to some of these concepts. Um. So
28:48
Speaker 1: you talked about how you're paying attention excuse me, you're
28:50
Speaker 1: paying attention to to wind and thermals and currents. But
28:56
Speaker 1: I want to understand this in the context of an example,
28:59
Speaker 1: so I can see, like how you think about these things.
29:01
Speaker 1: So maybe because you use today's hunt because you were
29:03
Speaker 1: out hunting this morning, as you just alluded to, could
29:05
Speaker 1: you tell us what you were thinking about leading into
29:09
Speaker 1: that hunt? So maybe this morning when you were planning
29:11
Speaker 1: where to go or why you were going to hunt
29:13
Speaker 1: or anything like that, can you explain to us how
29:14
Speaker 1: you thought about those three things when their most current,
29:18
Speaker 1: and what aspects of that you were thinking about to
29:20
Speaker 1: choose where to go, when to go, how to hunt today,
29:22
Speaker 1: and and and then maybe walk us through the hunt
29:24
Speaker 1: and how things ended up impacting things. Yeah. Um, actually
29:29
Speaker 1: today it was my first set of the season, and
29:33
Speaker 1: I'd just been you know, busy with work and everything.
29:36
Speaker 1: We were extremely hot, I think once you know, last
29:39
Speaker 1: week we were pushing ninety degrees a couple of days
29:41
Speaker 1: beginning of last week, like last weekend, in the last week, um,
29:45
Speaker 1: excuse me, the week before last, not just the other day. UM.
29:49
Speaker 1: And I think Thursday a front came in and literally,
29:52
Speaker 1: like within about thirty six hours we have like a
29:55
Speaker 1: thirty five temperature difference. Um. And as you know, you
29:59
Speaker 1: know it just when you have that big change, when
30:03
Speaker 1: you go from one constant a big change, and you know,
30:06
Speaker 1: starting to another constant that really gets deer on their feet,
30:09
Speaker 1: especially in October, in the middle of October. So I
30:12
Speaker 1: was really looking forward to trying to, you know, just
30:14
Speaker 1: find a time to get out here this week. And
30:17
Speaker 1: I was watching the weather, and you know, I knew
30:20
Speaker 1: this morning was gonna be my only morning. And I
30:23
Speaker 1: went and pull my cards on Sunday, and um, one
30:26
Speaker 1: of my my biggest buck on the farm I'm hunting.
30:30
Speaker 1: He was just just everywhere. He had been prancing around
30:33
Speaker 1: all week, last weekend, the day like that when obviously
30:36
Speaker 1: when that when that big temperature change kicked in, I
30:39
Speaker 1: had most of my cameras on scrapes and he was
30:42
Speaker 1: at about all of them. Um. And I know him
30:46
Speaker 1: well for the last two years. He's a five year old,
30:49
Speaker 1: and I purposely stayed away from him today because the
30:54
Speaker 1: wind was gonna, like I said, the you know, steady
30:57
Speaker 1: of around fifteen and gusting up to around twenties five.
31:00
Speaker 1: And it has some topography to at the farm that
31:02
Speaker 1: I hunt and the stands where I know he was frequenting,
31:06
Speaker 1: you know, the areas his core area and I say
31:08
Speaker 1: home core area. Um was in an area that the
31:12
Speaker 1: winds will swirl on you when they get to being
31:14
Speaker 1: pushed around that much, that that high of wind, and
31:18
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go in there and risk um
31:20
Speaker 1: having him out doing his thing and winding me. So
31:24
Speaker 1: I literally went to a stand and from one end
31:27
Speaker 1: of the farm the others, probably as far as you
31:29
Speaker 1: can get it might be a mile eas Uh, it's
31:31
Speaker 1: a pretty big place, but it's probably you know, between
31:34
Speaker 1: a quarter and a half mile from the center of
31:36
Speaker 1: his core area. It's basically just the fringes, but it's
31:39
Speaker 1: a really good spot. I call it the inside corner
31:42
Speaker 1: sometimes the corner pocket. It's an oak flat on the
31:45
Speaker 1: on the corner of a planted some Egyptian wheat and
31:48
Speaker 1: some other native grasses in there, about a five acre field,
31:52
Speaker 1: and it's just gotta laying around it, and it's the
31:54
Speaker 1: perfect little pinch of this oak flat kind of comes
31:57
Speaker 1: to this inside bend on a steep ridge. And I
32:00
Speaker 1: went there thinking, you know, I'm gonna stay on on
32:02
Speaker 1: that tude area, just just be great to get out
32:05
Speaker 1: and have a sit and you know, kind of get
32:07
Speaker 1: the season started. It was a really nice cool morning,
32:09
Speaker 1: forty two degrees, but the wind was high um and also,
32:13
Speaker 1: you know, I was hoping to get a dough um
32:16
Speaker 1: then Philideltag type of deal. But the only, the first
32:22
Speaker 1: and only during I saw this morning at eight oh two, uh,
32:25
Speaker 1: coming up this ridge work in this scrape line was
32:28
Speaker 1: that buck, you know, like, oh no, and intant me
32:31
Speaker 1: as soon as I saw, and I start didn't get
32:33
Speaker 1: worried because he was very nonchalant he was. I watched
32:37
Speaker 1: him work four or five scrapes, you know, maybe in
32:40
Speaker 1: a matter of sixty yards, and I mean he was
32:42
Speaker 1: really getting into kicking out the scrapes, making rugs, working
32:46
Speaker 1: overheading branch branches, and you know, he was just coming
32:50
Speaker 1: right up to shoot. And literally the funnel he was
32:53
Speaker 1: in really narrows down like thirteen yards from me. And
32:56
Speaker 1: there when I got into the stand, there was a
32:59
Speaker 1: fresh scrape about I don't know, less than six seven
33:02
Speaker 1: yards from the base of my tree. So and he
33:05
Speaker 1: was on that direct course and he was coming, you know,
33:07
Speaker 1: he was gonna work these scrapes. And I just as
33:10
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, I had just before that was, you know,
33:13
Speaker 1: doing the milkweed thing and watching the milkweed, and my
33:15
Speaker 1: thermals pulled that milkweed straight to the to the ground,
33:18
Speaker 1: you know, inside the ten yard line on my tree,
33:21
Speaker 1: and it's just it was like my you know, worst casecenar.
33:24
Speaker 1: I was excited to see it. He hadn't right at me,
33:27
Speaker 1: but I knew that it was only anotter of time
33:29
Speaker 1: until until he uh turned inside out there and you know,
33:34
Speaker 1: he kept working his way up and and he got
33:36
Speaker 1: to a scrape that was about it was actually twenty
33:40
Speaker 1: four and a half yards arranged it later, but he
33:42
Speaker 1: was severely quartered to was almost coming right at me. Um,
33:45
Speaker 1: And what happens on this how this funnel ways, it
33:48
Speaker 1: kind of bends around, and I'm like right on the bend.
33:50
Speaker 1: So when he leaves that scrape, he's actually going to
33:53
Speaker 1: go in behind my tree like ten eleven yards, and
33:57
Speaker 1: he's gonna be like quartering away, you know, twelve thirty
34:00
Speaker 1: manials to get to this other scrape. So it was
34:02
Speaker 1: gonna work kind of perfectly. But because of of my thermals,
34:05
Speaker 1: the wind was it wasn't going towards him, it was
34:08
Speaker 1: paralleling him. But those thermals being pulled down to the
34:11
Speaker 1: ground and and those big gusts, they were just creating
34:14
Speaker 1: havoc um And and you know, I just knew that
34:17
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't I knew better, you know,
34:20
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, like I said before, you know,
34:22
Speaker 1: I probably shouldn't have been hunting on that trying to
34:25
Speaker 1: kill a buck, but I was staying away from him,
34:28
Speaker 1: wanted to shoot a dough and also just wanted to
34:30
Speaker 1: be out there and join it. You know, I'm kind
34:32
Speaker 1: of holding my bow and I'm just like, well, maybe
34:34
Speaker 1: this wouldn't work. At this point, I'm starting to like,
34:36
Speaker 1: you know, like, man, this might just actually work if
34:39
Speaker 1: if this wind just keeps down long enough, and you know,
34:42
Speaker 1: maybe he's not going to pay attention to to all
34:44
Speaker 1: the details and he's just the one his thing and
34:46
Speaker 1: you know whatever. But uh, yeah, he took a couple
34:49
Speaker 1: of steps out of that's crazy patting my way, and
34:51
Speaker 1: it was like he hit a wall and and I
34:52
Speaker 1: mean I literally, you know, his posture immediately changed. Um,
34:58
Speaker 1: he didn't blow out of there like I body whatever.
35:00
Speaker 1: He kind of you know, he moved his head around
35:02
Speaker 1: a little bit too, and I could see him moving
35:04
Speaker 1: his nose and he must know the wad in one instance,
35:09
Speaker 1: because I mean and he turned and took two big
35:12
Speaker 1: hops and put some distance between me and him, and
35:14
Speaker 1: he stopped again, and at that point he was you know,
35:17
Speaker 1: maybe there were some brushing and he just literally just
35:22
Speaker 1: kind of change direction and just walk straight down over
35:24
Speaker 1: him and you know, got out of there. But you
35:27
Speaker 1: know that that was the scenario this morning. I kind
35:30
Speaker 1: of knew that going into there with those high winds.
35:33
Speaker 1: And again that's the difference between you know, the Midwest
35:36
Speaker 1: and a lot of times, a lot of those deer
35:38
Speaker 1: in the Midwest, that high state, when they like that,
35:40
Speaker 1: that that sense of comfort, you know, knowing that they're
35:43
Speaker 1: always their nose is always keeping them safe. But when
35:46
Speaker 1: you when you add topography to it and you get
35:48
Speaker 1: those gusts and that wind starts to swirl because of
35:51
Speaker 1: you know, like where I was, there was a steep
35:53
Speaker 1: ridge basically to the south of me, so I just
35:56
Speaker 1: had swirling winds. Um. You know, it could work against you.
36:00
Speaker 1: And a lot of times I think that that's that
36:03
Speaker 1: sixth sense. I'm sure you've all or we've all heard,
36:05
Speaker 1: you know, when you're talking group of hunters and somebody
36:09
Speaker 1: will say, you know that those those deer, especially those
36:11
Speaker 1: older ones, they just have that sixth sense. Um. I
36:14
Speaker 1: don't know. The more I do this, I like to
36:16
Speaker 1: think that that sixth sense is just those deer really
36:20
Speaker 1: really knowing, you know, how to use the terrain and
36:25
Speaker 1: the wind in their favor all the time, and then
36:28
Speaker 1: the hun completely understanding what's going on around in that
36:31
Speaker 1: sixth sense, like you know, if your thermals are on
36:33
Speaker 1: a rise, are on a fall the morning of an
36:35
Speaker 1: evening and editing air occurrens and stuff, you know, why
36:39
Speaker 1: you're sent actually went to that deer's nose. Um. I
36:42
Speaker 1: think that that that's that sixth sense that we see. Yeah, so,
36:46
Speaker 1: so I want to kind of unpackage a bunch of
36:48
Speaker 1: things that you talked about there. Let's talk about topography first. Um,
36:52
Speaker 1: can you explain or give us some examples of how
36:55
Speaker 1: different kinds of topography will mess with the wind? You know?
36:59
Speaker 1: The one that stands to me always, um is like
37:01
Speaker 1: if you're down in the bottom, Like, if you're down low,
37:04
Speaker 1: there's that swirling Um. Can you can you leverage on
37:07
Speaker 1: that in any other kind of topographic features that seem
37:10
Speaker 1: to have a consistent effect or something that you always
37:12
Speaker 1: keep an eye out for or aware of. Yeah. Sure,
37:15
Speaker 1: And it changes throughout the time of the year because
37:18
Speaker 1: of sun position, right, especially when you're talking topography and
37:22
Speaker 1: thermal's um, a north facing slope gets less sunlight in
37:29
Speaker 1: November than it does July. That makes any sense because
37:32
Speaker 1: the suns of your head so and the north facing
37:33
Speaker 1: slope is always your coldest facing. So that's the one
37:37
Speaker 1: that always sticks out to me, um when you're hunting
37:40
Speaker 1: a new facing slope, especially you know, we as being
37:44
Speaker 1: in the three stand deer hunters end of October three Thanksgiving.
37:48
Speaker 1: Depending on how steep that hill is and how high
37:51
Speaker 1: on the hill or lower you on the hill, it
37:53
Speaker 1: may be pen o'clock in the morning before the sun
37:57
Speaker 1: is i'll high enough, or even later. Uh, you know,
38:00
Speaker 1: to change those normal so, you know, and I've experied,
38:03
Speaker 1: I learned that through a bad experience of a really
38:06
Speaker 1: good scenario. Here is if you can picture this, and uh,
38:10
Speaker 1: the ridgeline running east to west um on the on
38:14
Speaker 1: the west side of the rags almost excuse me, on
38:17
Speaker 1: the east side of it, to the northeast, it was
38:19
Speaker 1: like a bowl almost of a thicket and every little
38:23
Speaker 1: nasty thing you could think in there, and maybe a
38:25
Speaker 1: topless twenty acres or so. And I just knew that,
38:28
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't really call it a betting area,
38:30
Speaker 1: but deer state, and it's just always does it's around
38:32
Speaker 1: there and everything and this regionally and you know, ran
38:36
Speaker 1: east to west from this this betting area, and so
38:40
Speaker 1: the deer would come from the west basically like it
38:44
Speaker 1: kind of angled, so they would come from the northwest
38:46
Speaker 1: across this north facing slope if you will, if you
38:49
Speaker 1: can follow me, um and then you know, heading to
38:52
Speaker 1: set check this dough betting areas I called it or whatever.
38:56
Speaker 1: Um on a northeast wind, and I had hunted this.
39:00
Speaker 1: I was about three quarters that went up on this bridge.
39:02
Speaker 1: And as I was scouting it, there was a SEEPI
39:04
Speaker 1: or a drainage that came out of this rich line
39:06
Speaker 1: had basically forced movement around it up it so that
39:09
Speaker 1: the deer walking across the hill, they would come to
39:11
Speaker 1: this big drainage just seeping out of this this north
39:14
Speaker 1: facing slope, and rather than than across it was rather steep,
39:18
Speaker 1: they would they would just overtime. All the trails just
39:21
Speaker 1: funneled around the top of it. You know, it's like
39:23
Speaker 1: a no brainer. When you knew what was going on,
39:26
Speaker 1: you know, you hang on, you know, the the south
39:29
Speaker 1: side of that, and you know it funnels all to
39:31
Speaker 1: do the type of dealing on the northeast wind. You know,
39:34
Speaker 1: it would only make sense that a buck could scent
39:36
Speaker 1: check that dough betting area, um, you know, just with
39:41
Speaker 1: his nose, you know, from seventy five yards away, type
39:44
Speaker 1: of deal. So I hunger standing, you know, putting way
39:47
Speaker 1: for that first northeast and and I've got in there
39:49
Speaker 1: and every you know, the winds out of the northeast
39:51
Speaker 1: and every gear that first morning, I'll never forget this,
39:54
Speaker 1: you know, to the north and me was blown. It was.
39:56
Speaker 1: It was a bunch of those and little ones and
39:58
Speaker 1: you know they're you know, thirty yards twenty yards and
40:01
Speaker 1: you know to the north of me, and you know
40:03
Speaker 1: they're just hitting my wind. I'm like, the winds out
40:06
Speaker 1: of the north, there's there's no way they should be
40:08
Speaker 1: smelling me. And I hadn't tested it, you know, I'm like,
40:11
Speaker 1: when the world's going on here, this is probably you know,
40:13
Speaker 1: ten years ago. And finally, you know, I went back
40:18
Speaker 1: in and with the whole fire deal, I'm like, I
40:20
Speaker 1: gotta figure this out, and you know, built a fire.
40:23
Speaker 1: And what was happening was that there were light wind days.
40:26
Speaker 1: And again, wind speed has a lot to do with it,
40:28
Speaker 1: you know, I'd like to think, I don't know, I've
40:30
Speaker 1: never really measure, but somewhere over eight millon how wind
40:34
Speaker 1: gets kind of forceful, so it forces your scent or
40:37
Speaker 1: whatever in the direction it's coming from. So it's basically
40:39
Speaker 1: pushing it with enough force that it will get it there.
40:42
Speaker 1: But when it's less than that, a lot of times,
40:45
Speaker 1: you know, your center to that hand and it becomes
40:47
Speaker 1: heavy and it just kind of gravity takes its toll,
40:51
Speaker 1: if you will, especially on those cold thermals, but they
40:54
Speaker 1: are pulling, you know, towards the earth surfaces. And that
40:57
Speaker 1: was this exact occasion. It was, you know, one of
40:59
Speaker 1: those old Chris November mornings. Was hardly any wind at all,
41:03
Speaker 1: um you know, very overcast type of day. So I
41:06
Speaker 1: call that heavy air, you know, very heavy air type
41:08
Speaker 1: of day. And the sun was up, but it wasn't
41:12
Speaker 1: up high enough to where it was, you know, reaching
41:14
Speaker 1: the forest floor on that part of the facing slope.
41:17
Speaker 1: So my thermals were, you know, working as if it
41:20
Speaker 1: were over the evening. My thermals, you know, my sense
41:22
Speaker 1: you know, coming out of the body, if you were
41:24
Speaker 1: I don't fire, you know, it's going up a little bit,
41:27
Speaker 1: but it was cooling down rather quickly because the air
41:29
Speaker 1: temperature was cold, so the smoke's cooling down and they
41:32
Speaker 1: cooled down, it were going to the north a little
41:34
Speaker 1: bit with the north wind direction, the smoke to the
41:36
Speaker 1: north a little ways. But once it got cool enough
41:39
Speaker 1: and then its thermal started pulling it, it would literally,
41:41
Speaker 1: you know, pull it to the ground and then suck it,
41:43
Speaker 1: you know, back down to the bottom, which would be
41:46
Speaker 1: to the north of me. So that's what my sent
41:49
Speaker 1: was doing. If you think of yourself at a little
41:52
Speaker 1: fire constantly putting off smoke, um, you know, yeah, it's
41:55
Speaker 1: going the right direction for you know, a certain amount
41:58
Speaker 1: of time. But once that air cools down, once it
42:01
Speaker 1: cools it down you know from your body, uh, and
42:04
Speaker 1: those thermals pull down towards your surfaces, and then it's
42:07
Speaker 1: gonna go. You know. You think of scent or that
42:10
Speaker 1: smoke just as water on the hillside, and and even fog,
42:13
Speaker 1: if you will. Fog always lays in the lowest parts
42:16
Speaker 1: of the fields. You know, if you're going around and
42:19
Speaker 1: at a cool morning where the fog is, it's always
42:22
Speaker 1: just like water where water would pull, fog pulls up
42:25
Speaker 1: and that's usually you know, the lowest, coolest spot, and
42:28
Speaker 1: that's what your scent does. And and uh, I learned.
42:31
Speaker 1: I still hunt that that fence line, that's I call
42:33
Speaker 1: it the north Ridge stand um, but I don't. I
42:37
Speaker 1: purposely set a stand about eighty yards from it that
42:40
Speaker 1: I hunt until about you know, twent o ten something there,
42:44
Speaker 1: and then I get down and sneak over and that
42:47
Speaker 1: stands and get up in it, you know, around ten
42:49
Speaker 1: o'clock if you will. Uh, the sun is usually high
42:52
Speaker 1: enough and the thermals are now going again back up
42:54
Speaker 1: the hill, and it puts everything you know, right into
42:57
Speaker 1: my favorite there's deer that are scent checking that ridge line,
43:00
Speaker 1: you know, on a north wind that my scent, my
43:02
Speaker 1: thermals are going upwards and you know, to the south
43:05
Speaker 1: like they should be up over the hill type of deal.
43:07
Speaker 1: And I've actually shot there from that stand, shot box
43:10
Speaker 1: out of that stand, you know, getting in it ninety
43:13
Speaker 1: and I think the earliest I shot one at twenty
43:15
Speaker 1: after ten one time. I've shot them at eleven, you know,
43:19
Speaker 1: I think one in one in the afternoon one time.
43:21
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was definitely an eye opener for me.
43:24
Speaker 1: It definitely works. So to answer your question. That's one
43:27
Speaker 1: of the you know, the like you say, the topography,
43:31
Speaker 1: the low spots um and those north facing slopes, and
43:37
Speaker 1: they said you can use the layman the thermals and
43:43
Speaker 1: eliminate um stand lowcases. And you know, I've want to
43:48
Speaker 1: have all but eliminated the low ones. But it takes
43:51
Speaker 1: the perfect scenario for me to get into a low stand,
43:54
Speaker 1: and usually it has to have water around it. Uh,
43:58
Speaker 1: water can get me, can can do a lot, you know,
44:01
Speaker 1: get your scent where you want. It cools down the
44:03
Speaker 1: year and around you. Sort it's gonna pull those your
44:05
Speaker 1: thermals down to the stream and then you know, right
44:08
Speaker 1: out out with the flowing current almost so it'll your
44:11
Speaker 1: scent will stay right with the water type of deal. Okay, Um,
44:17
Speaker 1: I'm finding myself being pulled in like seven different directions
44:20
Speaker 1: at once. I'm trying to do Sometimes you have to
44:23
Speaker 1: stop me because I get going. So it's perfect. It's
44:27
Speaker 1: it's perfect because you're you're laying down all the different
44:30
Speaker 1: things I'm interested in. You're like kind of putting them
44:32
Speaker 1: out there for me. I'm just trying to pick trying
44:33
Speaker 1: to choose which apple to pick off the tree. Um
44:36
Speaker 1: So one of the things I kind of struggle with
44:39
Speaker 1: sometimes is knowing how to like rank or prioritize wind
44:45
Speaker 1: direction versus the thermal and knowing like when one is
44:48
Speaker 1: going to trump the other. And I think you kind
44:51
Speaker 1: of mentioned your threshold, but I want to make sure
44:53
Speaker 1: I'm clear on this. Are you? Are you saying that
44:55
Speaker 1: if you have a wind direction of more than eight
44:58
Speaker 1: miles an hour or so, that's probably going to trump
45:02
Speaker 1: a thermal effect, so that in that case you wouldn't
45:05
Speaker 1: be so much worried about the thermal sucking you down
45:07
Speaker 1: if you had like twelve or thirteen or fifty mile
45:09
Speaker 1: an hour wind blowing to you in a certain direction.
45:12
Speaker 1: Is that right? Or correct me on on that? Yeah,
45:16
Speaker 1: So putting on when you have them those you know,
45:19
Speaker 1: those perfect chris blue bird mornings, but not bluebird but
45:24
Speaker 1: low wind. You know, there's just hardly any noise in
45:26
Speaker 1: the woods, so low low wind speed um thermals really
45:30
Speaker 1: come into play. But usually when those crisp, cool bluebird mornings,
45:34
Speaker 1: is I call those uh light air days, you know,
45:37
Speaker 1: I call them heavy air and light air. But when
45:39
Speaker 1: you have that that high pressure, your therminals, you're you're
45:42
Speaker 1: your tumals, I like to think of it. You know,
45:44
Speaker 1: we grew up in the north and you know when
45:46
Speaker 1: you go past people's homes in January and they have
45:49
Speaker 1: a chimney and the stone pipes comes out of the
45:51
Speaker 1: top of their roof and they have a fire, and
45:53
Speaker 1: the stone pipes like ten inches and you ever see
45:55
Speaker 1: those the smoke out those pipes like keep a ten
45:59
Speaker 1: inch or maybe be just day out to twenty inches around,
46:02
Speaker 1: but just it just goes straight op in the air
46:03
Speaker 1: for as almost as high as you can see it.
46:06
Speaker 1: Those really light air days, there's nice, beautiful high prince days,
46:09
Speaker 1: and your thumbs are just going straight up. So there's
46:11
Speaker 1: since almost like in that stove pipe, it's just going
46:14
Speaker 1: straight up. Um. Those are the days and again that
46:18
Speaker 1: sixth sense that you can almost get away with just
46:19
Speaker 1: about anything. But then when on the flip side, when
46:22
Speaker 1: you have those heavy air days when everything is being
46:25
Speaker 1: pushed down to the ground, and you know you can
46:28
Speaker 1: again see those days, just build a fire in your
46:31
Speaker 1: yard a few times, you know you're and watch what
46:33
Speaker 1: the smoke does. Um. You know when your neighbors are
46:37
Speaker 1: you know, four or five doors down coughing because you
46:39
Speaker 1: got your you're burning leaves in your yard. Those are
46:41
Speaker 1: heavy air days, and that's exactly what your sense to
46:43
Speaker 1: be doing, so it's forced down. And those are the
46:47
Speaker 1: days that wind speed comes into play because if you're
46:50
Speaker 1: if those heavy air days are forcing your sent to
46:52
Speaker 1: the you know, to stay within you know, whatever ten
46:56
Speaker 1: are surface, then you need wind speed from a direction
46:59
Speaker 1: to move your scent where you need it to go. Hopefully,
47:02
Speaker 1: you know your your tree stands positioned to where you know,
47:05
Speaker 1: you know you're on the downwind side of wherever you're
47:07
Speaker 1: gonna walk if you need your scent to go that way,
47:09
Speaker 1: so you obviously need wind speed to push it there
47:12
Speaker 1: on those heavy air days. That makes sense. So so
47:16
Speaker 1: high pressure days are when you're typically gonna get those
47:19
Speaker 1: that air blowing up, pulling your scent up and out
47:22
Speaker 1: in a way so you can get away with a
47:23
Speaker 1: little more. And also we oftentimes hear the high pressure
47:26
Speaker 1: days or days that deer like to like to move
47:28
Speaker 1: a little bit more too, So that's kind of a
47:30
Speaker 1: double positive there on the flip side, right, you got
47:34
Speaker 1: the low pressure days which you usually are coming in
47:36
Speaker 1: with the front. Like at the beginning of the front. Right,
47:38
Speaker 1: you got a big storm front moving through something that's
47:41
Speaker 1: gonna be what you're calling a heavy air days, pushing
47:44
Speaker 1: things down. It's gonna make things a little more difficult
47:47
Speaker 1: unless you do have the higher wind speed that's gonna,
47:49
Speaker 1: as you said, push the wind where you need it,
47:51
Speaker 1: your scent where you need it. So that all that
47:53
Speaker 1: all makes sense to me now I think, Um, now,
47:56
Speaker 1: this is a slight pivot. But when it comes to
47:59
Speaker 1: wind speed and and dear movement, do you see any
48:02
Speaker 1: certain um you know, threshold of below this you know
48:06
Speaker 1: speed they tend to like it or don't like it,
48:08
Speaker 1: or above the speed they like it or don't like it.
48:11
Speaker 1: Um do you do you have anything there that you
48:13
Speaker 1: that you like? The key in on well, I think
48:16
Speaker 1: it varies regionally for the hunt. You know that you've
48:19
Speaker 1: flund a lot of listeners in upstate New York, you
48:21
Speaker 1: know hunting big woods. Um, I and I grew up
48:24
Speaker 1: in areas like that, and I've also hunted you know, Iowa.
48:27
Speaker 1: So it definitely, in my opinion, varies regionally, and definitely
48:31
Speaker 1: topography has a lot to do with that. But in
48:33
Speaker 1: the big woods, when you have you know, big mature
48:37
Speaker 1: you know, red oak and maple forest, and stuff, and
48:40
Speaker 1: that wind speed picks up and it stays a constant,
48:43
Speaker 1: and those tree tops are banging together and you know,
48:45
Speaker 1: swirling winds because of the ridges in the valley. Um,
48:50
Speaker 1: to me, dear tend to moves less now on the
48:53
Speaker 1: flip side, you know, on the other coin of that spectrum.
48:56
Speaker 1: And I've heard you know, when you've had more journal
48:58
Speaker 1: and how he likes higher winds speed. But I think
49:01
Speaker 1: that has a lot to do with it's a constant. Uh,
49:03
Speaker 1: it's coming from a certain direction. They can feed in
49:07
Speaker 1: bed with their nose in a certain position to to
49:10
Speaker 1: cover you know, their backside. You know, deer is a
49:12
Speaker 1: prey animal. You know, basically it's just trying to do
49:15
Speaker 1: everything to stay alive. So that would make sense that
49:18
Speaker 1: if it's being a constant that then they can always
49:20
Speaker 1: monitor that. But when it starts to scroll around, and
49:22
Speaker 1: then you throw in the banging tops of trees and stuff,
49:25
Speaker 1: that is now giving them another trigger to their ears,
49:28
Speaker 1: you know, to be alarmed. To um, I think it
49:31
Speaker 1: adds a little stress to him. And when they're stressed,
49:33
Speaker 1: they tend to move left. So I think that would
49:36
Speaker 1: definitely depend on you know, what part of the country
49:39
Speaker 1: you're hunting in for me? You know where I where
49:42
Speaker 1: I'm hunting now. You know today it was a perfect example.
49:46
Speaker 1: It was a high wind day and it was you know,
49:48
Speaker 1: steady twelve the sixteen or seventeen, and Gustin it was
49:53
Speaker 1: just the buck I saw he was actually moving. You know,
49:57
Speaker 1: it was eight o'clock. It was actually before the wind
49:59
Speaker 1: really started pick up heavy about you know, as the
50:01
Speaker 1: sun got higher and when you know, obviously gained speed
50:05
Speaker 1: and around ninety I mean, it was just, you know,
50:08
Speaker 1: it was just a bunch of nonsense. Really, I just
50:11
Speaker 1: it was just wasting my time. I didn't even say
50:13
Speaker 1: it though. Huh um. Interesting. Let's let's go back to
50:19
Speaker 1: what you were talking about two seconds ago then, which
50:21
Speaker 1: was water, and you alluded to that was you know,
50:24
Speaker 1: utilizing water as a as almost like a thermal pool
50:27
Speaker 1: was something that you you would would think about in
50:30
Speaker 1: certain situations. It would allow you to get away with
50:32
Speaker 1: hunting in like a low spot, like a bottom or
50:35
Speaker 1: a creek bottom or something like that. Can you can
50:37
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit more about how water
50:39
Speaker 1: impacts all this stuff, thermal's, wind, currents, et cetera, and
50:43
Speaker 1: then elaborate on how you use that, Yeah, definitely, it's
50:48
Speaker 1: it's it's on the evening. Um. I mentioned before, you know,
50:51
Speaker 1: I tried to I hunt is I hunt higher in
50:55
Speaker 1: topography as much as I can, because obviously that's more
50:58
Speaker 1: constant um. But when you know, you start talking to
51:03
Speaker 1: different found hunters and starts, especially the RNA season, there
51:05
Speaker 1: was a lot of people that do a lot of
51:07
Speaker 1: evening hunts. Makes sense, you know, through the bed and
51:09
Speaker 1: then then the evening next when they do most of it.
51:11
Speaker 1: But umform topography to me plays a big rule in that,
51:17
Speaker 1: especially when you start dealing with order eh class dear
51:20
Speaker 1: and going on this or stumbled across the one. You
51:23
Speaker 1: just watching deer from long distance. I was watching the
51:25
Speaker 1: mature buck one time. He kept coming out in the
51:27
Speaker 1: field the four seasons. This is like mid September, you know,
51:31
Speaker 1: feeding in the beans type of deal. And he would
51:33
Speaker 1: come out in the same spot on a certain win
51:35
Speaker 1: direction all the time, almost religiously, and he would never
51:39
Speaker 1: other deer would feed, you know, within you know, a
51:42
Speaker 1: couple hundred yards of him, but he stayed within a
51:44
Speaker 1: thirty or forty yards circle. He would never really leave
51:47
Speaker 1: that circle. UM. And at the time he was either
51:50
Speaker 1: four or five year old, I can't remember, but you
51:53
Speaker 1: know what it was was he was feeding. Eventually later
51:56
Speaker 1: I fixed this side. He was feeding, you know, honestly
51:58
Speaker 1: with his head thou clover, and it was over the evening,
52:01
Speaker 1: every evening, and and he was basically in an area
52:05
Speaker 1: where all the the topography was pulling all the his
52:10
Speaker 1: the scent from around him. The thunals were calling down.
52:14
Speaker 1: He was in the lower spot, and he stayed in
52:16
Speaker 1: that lower spot because he could feed with his nose.
52:18
Speaker 1: You head to the ground. Those that are ground look
52:20
Speaker 1: up every now and again. But basically how all facets covered,
52:23
Speaker 1: because he was in one of the lower spots around them,
52:26
Speaker 1: and he's thinking about trying to get in there and
52:27
Speaker 1: hunt that deer. And he was where he was seeing
52:30
Speaker 1: was really from his betting area where I assumed he
52:34
Speaker 1: was betting. And the only spot I could get into
52:38
Speaker 1: was if I walked a creek, a creek bottom up
52:41
Speaker 1: and it had some that had water. And when you
52:43
Speaker 1: get to when I'm talking about the water temperatures is
52:47
Speaker 1: what does causes this? And you've only probably everybody has
52:50
Speaker 1: probably stood next to a stream and it's just always
52:53
Speaker 1: you know, more chilly down, it's corner next to the water.
52:56
Speaker 1: Um that has a that that's a positive for you
52:59
Speaker 1: if you're trying to you know, if your tree stands
53:01
Speaker 1: close to that water, then that that cooler air temperature
53:05
Speaker 1: in and around that water, especially of an evening a
53:08
Speaker 1: storm as are falling, will will funnel your scent you know,
53:11
Speaker 1: to the water. And then whatever direction the water currents going,
53:15
Speaker 1: your wind speeds not too high, and usually in the
53:17
Speaker 1: evening as when wind speed starts to die out again,
53:20
Speaker 1: that would that would not be the case if you
53:22
Speaker 1: had stronger wind speed, you know, forcing it you're sent
53:25
Speaker 1: a certain direction. But if you had you know, three
53:28
Speaker 1: or four or five miles wind, uh, really cooler temperatures
53:31
Speaker 1: in that water, and you could you can literally sit
53:34
Speaker 1: next to the standom thinking about and now I could
53:36
Speaker 1: take you there and you could sit next to feel
53:38
Speaker 1: the temperature difference. And you know, I was able to
53:41
Speaker 1: sneak up that creek bottom, um, you know, with the
53:43
Speaker 1: water in it, get out within you know, five or
53:45
Speaker 1: six yards in the creek bank and uh, you know,
53:48
Speaker 1: into the stand type of deal and and shoot that deer.
53:51
Speaker 1: Um he you know, he in his mind, I think
53:56
Speaker 1: he was you know as the safe as he could be.
53:58
Speaker 1: But I just found that one area where I could
54:00
Speaker 1: get in there and and him not be aware of
54:03
Speaker 1: my presence, And it was because of that stream. For sure.
54:07
Speaker 1: Do you have anything like that when you're hunting near
54:09
Speaker 1: big bodies of water, like hunting next to a lake
54:12
Speaker 1: or a really large pond or anything. Is there any
54:14
Speaker 1: kind of weird current or thermal effect of that? Um,
54:19
Speaker 1: I don't know if I have ever thought about that. Yeah,
54:22
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've never really handing next to a
54:25
Speaker 1: big lake. I hand hunted closer to some ponds, but um,
54:30
Speaker 1: I would think just thinking about it, you know, it
54:33
Speaker 1: would have to be a bigger pond because I think
54:35
Speaker 1: the statinant water especially they kind of whole heat like
54:38
Speaker 1: a swimming pull, the whole teet. But a stream, you know,
54:40
Speaker 1: moving water, especially in a mountainous region, is cold water.
54:44
Speaker 1: You know where the trout look, that's really cool water
54:46
Speaker 1: type of deal. Um, it would make sense if it
54:49
Speaker 1: would definitely change it, but it might actually change in
54:52
Speaker 1: the reverse. If there was a pond, that would you know,
54:53
Speaker 1: like a swimming pool sometimes if you jump in, you
54:56
Speaker 1: know you have an in ground swimming pool. An air
54:58
Speaker 1: temperature of a morning or any evening is quartered in
55:01
Speaker 1: the water temperature, you know, so the pool actually old
55:03
Speaker 1: heat um sometimes you know, depending on what's around and
55:07
Speaker 1: I guess how much sunlight it get, So there will
55:09
Speaker 1: be a lot of variables are but I can definitely see,
55:11
Speaker 1: you know, it'd be something words looking into. I never
55:13
Speaker 1: really studied it. So here's another thermal scenario. I'm curious
55:18
Speaker 1: on your thoughts about this is when I've heard some
55:20
Speaker 1: other guys talk about the hunt some hilly country talking
55:23
Speaker 1: about um what they call a thermal tunnel, where basically
55:27
Speaker 1: you've got a situation where you have a your imagine
55:30
Speaker 1: a ridge and you've got the wind blowing over the ridge,
55:34
Speaker 1: and you also they'll have a thermal rising. So we're
55:38
Speaker 1: gonna say it's late in the morning or in the
55:40
Speaker 1: afternoon when the wind or the thermals are coming from
55:43
Speaker 1: the bottom coming up the ridge, but you have a
55:44
Speaker 1: wind direction that's coming from the opposite side of the
55:46
Speaker 1: ridge and it's hitting that thermal, creating almost a tunnel effect.
55:51
Speaker 1: You've got thermal hitting a wind direction. Typically I've heard
55:54
Speaker 1: about this being about three quarters of the way up
55:56
Speaker 1: the ridge line. And then this this kind of this
55:58
Speaker 1: spinning tunnel of of wind. Supposedly, the theory being that
56:03
Speaker 1: this location about three cords of the way or two
56:05
Speaker 1: thirds of the way up a ridge. Because of that effect,
56:09
Speaker 1: bucks sometimes like to run that height on the ridge
56:13
Speaker 1: to try to take advantage of that. Have you heard
56:15
Speaker 1: of that before? Or if if not, does that make sense?
56:19
Speaker 1: Have you seen anything like that? What do you think
56:20
Speaker 1: about that theory? UM? I have heard of that, and
56:24
Speaker 1: I've heard it. I've heard it talk. I've heard it
56:27
Speaker 1: talked a lot when that'sked with the elk hunters. UM,
56:30
Speaker 1: but I've never I guess I've never really played with
56:33
Speaker 1: I have heard of it. Does make sense, um a
56:36
Speaker 1: little bit, But I think would have to do with winds.
56:37
Speaker 1: It would have a lot to do with wind speed. UM,
56:40
Speaker 1: depending on you know how much uh how much force
56:43
Speaker 1: is behind the wind, whether that would take effect or not. Okay,
56:47
Speaker 1: that makes sense? Um? Does does any of this stuff
56:50
Speaker 1: with thermals matter when we're not in country with a
56:53
Speaker 1: bunch of ridges and hills? I mean, if I'm in
56:56
Speaker 1: flat as flat ground can be, let's say middle of
56:58
Speaker 1: Illinois or something like that. Um, do you need to
57:02
Speaker 1: worry about this stuff as much sure. Uh, you know,
57:06
Speaker 1: just like today, you don't want even you want your
57:09
Speaker 1: thermals on a rise, especially for hurting from a treest
57:12
Speaker 1: and even even fifteen you know, twenty feet can make
57:14
Speaker 1: a difference if if you're in a tree stand twenty
57:17
Speaker 1: feet and you're a bow hunter, you know, hunting a
57:19
Speaker 1: specific deer, trying to get him within a specific you
57:22
Speaker 1: know yardage. Um, you don't want your your you know,
57:26
Speaker 1: if you're expecting the deer and where I was, I
57:29
Speaker 1: would call it this morning, like close quarters. That's a
57:31
Speaker 1: good example. You know, if the deer continued on, he's
57:34
Speaker 1: gonna end up you know, twelve thirteen yards maybe a closer.
57:37
Speaker 1: So when when your thermals are you know, going straight
57:41
Speaker 1: to the ground. I mean he's basically a ground zero.
57:44
Speaker 1: You have to have everything right, so yeah, topography or not.
57:47
Speaker 1: You know, if your trumbals are going straight to the
57:48
Speaker 1: ground and you're expected, you'renna be that close. You know,
57:52
Speaker 1: if you want to shoot that deer, I would just
57:53
Speaker 1: shoot him before he gets that close, because you know,
57:56
Speaker 1: he may not smell you at thirty yards, but he's
57:58
Speaker 1: probably definitely gonna smell you a ten uh, you know,
58:00
Speaker 1: and turn inside out once he does, because he's gonna
58:03
Speaker 1: know he's right on top of the type the door
58:05
Speaker 1: basically right underneath you. Um, i've heard, but yeah, but
58:09
Speaker 1: when so, I was gonna say that that I've heard
58:12
Speaker 1: you talk about these kind of days like that where
58:15
Speaker 1: you've got a low pressure, so a heavy air day
58:19
Speaker 1: that pushes your scent down, and if you don't have
58:21
Speaker 1: a lot of wind, you essentially create a pool of
58:24
Speaker 1: scent around you. Um, that just kind of lingers there.
58:28
Speaker 1: And in the context of that situation you were talking about,
58:31
Speaker 1: if you've got a scenario like that and you're in
58:33
Speaker 1: the rut, you wouldn't hunt all day like many other
58:37
Speaker 1: people would say, because you just are creating this scent pool.
58:40
Speaker 1: Is that right? Is that day here? That right? Do
58:41
Speaker 1: you avoid all day sits in the scenario? Like? Yeah,
58:46
Speaker 1: I do? And you know they're doing the show scene
58:48
Speaker 1: and you know, I feel like in January when we're
58:50
Speaker 1: all out there on shows. You talk to every year
58:53
Speaker 1: hunter in North America, and I've always found it fascinating
58:57
Speaker 1: how many people sit from daylight to dark in the
58:59
Speaker 1: same trease then all different fashions of weather. Sometimes I
59:05
Speaker 1: would say that that's fine and probably would suggest it.
59:07
Speaker 1: But there are other times, especially there's heavy air days,
59:09
Speaker 1: when I think just that I think of myself as
59:12
Speaker 1: like I said, I have built fires. I think of
59:13
Speaker 1: myself as a fire and constantly putting off smoke. And
59:16
Speaker 1: if I don't have wind speed and thermals taken my
59:19
Speaker 1: scent or that smoke in the direction where I wanted
59:22
Speaker 1: to go, it is I am just you know, constantly
59:26
Speaker 1: saturating my area. I would just only imagine that it
59:30
Speaker 1: would just can you know the pool of scent would
59:32
Speaker 1: just increase and get larger and larger and larger, you know,
59:35
Speaker 1: basically you know, twenty yards saturbination from my stand, thirty
59:39
Speaker 1: year and forty yar and fifty yard and eventually if
59:41
Speaker 1: I've sat there eight nine ten hours and I've not
59:44
Speaker 1: had wind speed to move, you know, to clean the
59:46
Speaker 1: airing out type of deal, and I've had you know,
59:49
Speaker 1: a low pressure gay and heavy air day and everything's
59:51
Speaker 1: just fallen to the ground, I would, you know, And
59:54
Speaker 1: I've kind of testing it, Ferry not specifically sent out
59:57
Speaker 1: the bit, but sat areas where I knew that was
59:59
Speaker 1: going on, really good areas and have sat there and
1:00:03
Speaker 1: just not seen deer Um, I guess the argument could be, well,
1:00:06
Speaker 1: you know, how do you know you would have seen
1:00:07
Speaker 1: here was a better day? And I don't know that,
1:00:09
Speaker 1: but you know you do that so add so many times.
1:00:13
Speaker 1: The likelihood is if you go, you know, if you
1:00:15
Speaker 1: know the area and you know how many do you have,
1:00:17
Speaker 1: and you know what's going on if you're not seeing deer. Uh,
1:00:21
Speaker 1: and on those types of days, the likelihood is I
1:00:24
Speaker 1: would think it only makes sense no how well they
1:00:26
Speaker 1: smell that if that's probably why. Um, So those days,
1:00:30
Speaker 1: I definitely tried to get to an area where I
1:00:32
Speaker 1: caught my dead zone where I know that I try
1:00:35
Speaker 1: to get my scent to pull in an area where
1:00:37
Speaker 1: I don't expect any dearer to be or come from,
1:00:40
Speaker 1: or I just I just chalk it up as if
1:00:42
Speaker 1: they get there, then it's it's, um, you know, I'm busted.
1:00:45
Speaker 1: And that's that's part of the game type of deal.
1:00:49
Speaker 1: We talked about all these scenarios now where we're thinking
1:00:53
Speaker 1: about trying to manage where our scent is going, where
1:00:57
Speaker 1: are smoke is going. Um, And so we've talked about
1:01:01
Speaker 1: ways that we can think about thermals too to our advantage.
1:01:03
Speaker 1: We've talked about ways that we can use wind direction
1:01:06
Speaker 1: to our advantage. Um, what about actual tools or products
1:01:11
Speaker 1: that can help us deal with this? So there's a
1:01:14
Speaker 1: there's a bajillion different scent control products out there, UM, ozone,
1:01:20
Speaker 1: sprays cover sense, YadA, YadA YadA. From your experience thinking
1:01:25
Speaker 1: about this and putting a lot of these things to
1:01:27
Speaker 1: the test, do any of those things work really well
1:01:30
Speaker 1: to combat some of the wind issues or is there
1:01:33
Speaker 1: anything that you recommend over another or thoughts on that
1:01:36
Speaker 1: in general? Um, well, I've never I've never fought with
1:01:41
Speaker 1: the ozone. It's become of nations basically because it just
1:01:45
Speaker 1: didn't really spend the one to spend the money on.
1:01:49
Speaker 1: Um Uh. I do keep all my clothes and sent
1:01:53
Speaker 1: free tubs. Uh you know, I Washman sent free determindent,
1:01:57
Speaker 1: I sprayed down um sometimes are and put you know
1:02:00
Speaker 1: a little bit of cover song on my boots type
1:02:02
Speaker 1: of deal. I keep my boots and separate tubs. I dress.
1:02:05
Speaker 1: You know, when I get out of my truck in
1:02:07
Speaker 1: the morning, I have with them out. I stayed on
1:02:09
Speaker 1: a dressed I answer all those I think it makes sense. Um.
1:02:12
Speaker 1: I trying to keep the foreign smells too, as as
1:02:15
Speaker 1: minimum as I can, but I rely more on trying
1:02:19
Speaker 1: to understand the wind direction and just keeping my scent
1:02:23
Speaker 1: from getting to their nose. I really feel like, you know,
1:02:27
Speaker 1: knowing how well they smell. Um, I feel like if
1:02:31
Speaker 1: you're no matter what you're doing, if you're sent you know,
1:02:34
Speaker 1: the human gets to it ears nose, they're gonna know it. Now,
1:02:37
Speaker 1: how they react to it is the you know, is
1:02:39
Speaker 1: the difference. Um. I've hunted urban areas you know, in Ohio,
1:02:44
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania that are beer just used to to human
1:02:48
Speaker 1: spelled they're used to. Yeah, they're almost a different animal
1:02:51
Speaker 1: from some of that. You I grew up hunting into
1:02:53
Speaker 1: wods of Pennsylvania, so you can get away with some
1:02:56
Speaker 1: of that stuff. And I think even a step further,
1:02:58
Speaker 1: I think something are just have different personalities. You know.
1:03:02
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'd ever had a way of
1:03:04
Speaker 1: proven this about this saw. Some dude, older deer just
1:03:07
Speaker 1: didn't seem to decared, you know, and then I hear
1:03:09
Speaker 1: the littlest things set them off, just like some deer.
1:03:13
Speaker 1: You know, last year, I was hunting the buck that
1:03:15
Speaker 1: was a falling a five year old, and he reacted
1:03:18
Speaker 1: so negatively to you know, the grunt, the weeze, or
1:03:21
Speaker 1: rattling antlers. I mean literally, if I grotted at him,
1:03:23
Speaker 1: if I were weed at him or rattled antlers at him,
1:03:26
Speaker 1: he turned around in the other direction. And he was
1:03:28
Speaker 1: one of the oldest dude on the floor and one
1:03:30
Speaker 1: of the biggest. Um. I think it was his personality.
1:03:32
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't know what it is.
1:03:34
Speaker 1: Maybe he was beat up a lot as a kid.
1:03:35
Speaker 1: I don't know, Uh, you know, but it was. And
1:03:38
Speaker 1: other dear, it's just on the flip stead. I've had
1:03:40
Speaker 1: told you to come in all bristled up and just
1:03:43
Speaker 1: challenge you. So I do believe that they have personalities. Um.
1:03:47
Speaker 1: And I think some deer or more tolerant those things.
1:03:50
Speaker 1: When they smell it, some get curious. Um. I've had
1:03:53
Speaker 1: deer followed my cent trail, you know, to the tree.
1:03:56
Speaker 1: Well you would think they would turn around and run,
1:03:58
Speaker 1: and especially more so it does than bucks. But they
1:04:01
Speaker 1: they're very curious. They want to know, you know, what's
1:04:03
Speaker 1: going on over there and where is this thing at
1:04:05
Speaker 1: that I'm smelling. I don't think they necessarily associated with danger,
1:04:09
Speaker 1: but it's something that they want to investigate. Towny Year
1:04:12
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with it too. Um you know,
1:04:15
Speaker 1: early season when they haven't been hunting for pressure, you know,
1:04:18
Speaker 1: throughout the summer, I think their guard maybe a lot
1:04:21
Speaker 1: lower on the on their you know, a lot further
1:04:23
Speaker 1: down on the scale of what they learned to And
1:04:25
Speaker 1: then you know, you enter into five or six weeks
1:04:28
Speaker 1: of both season and followed by a gun scene before
1:04:31
Speaker 1: you know it, like in Michigan and Pennsylvania, million hunters
1:04:33
Speaker 1: have been in the woods. You know, they're just triggered
1:04:36
Speaker 1: by the smallest thing. So I don't tell me. You know,
1:04:38
Speaker 1: late season is way different than the early season as
1:04:40
Speaker 1: far as a lot of those those alarming factors, if
1:04:43
Speaker 1: you will. Yeah, yeah, I feel like I've seen a
1:04:46
Speaker 1: lot of the same things there. Um so so further,
1:04:50
Speaker 1: I wanna I want to get your thoughts over there,
1:04:52
Speaker 1: because for me, this whole topic of wind and understanding it.
1:04:57
Speaker 1: This is definitely one of those light bulb moments for
1:04:59
Speaker 1: me too. And I and actunately hunted for like eighteen
1:05:02
Speaker 1: years or something before I really started paying attention to
1:05:04
Speaker 1: win the way you should have. I probably would have
1:05:06
Speaker 1: done a whole lot better as a teenager if I
1:05:08
Speaker 1: was sharpened up on this Um. But when I finally
1:05:10
Speaker 1: did things start clicking. Now you're more of an adult
1:05:13
Speaker 1: onset hunter, late teenager on set hunter. Um. When you're
1:05:17
Speaker 1: hearing all this stuff from Ryan, where where are your
1:05:20
Speaker 1: questions still at or what are what aren't recovering that
1:05:23
Speaker 1: you that you're curious about. I mean, you've you've hit
1:05:27
Speaker 1: on a ton of stuff, and you've got to have
1:05:29
Speaker 1: like a notebook or something with all these with all
1:05:32
Speaker 1: these specific scenarios for different stands, because I don't know
1:05:34
Speaker 1: how you keep this all straight. Um. But you know,
1:05:36
Speaker 1: I didn't start really thinking about Thermal's mark until Jesus.
1:05:40
Speaker 1: It was probably on your elk count a couple of
1:05:42
Speaker 1: years ago, Um, when we were talking about strategy and
1:05:45
Speaker 1: where we wanted to be in the morning and in
1:05:47
Speaker 1: the afternoon, And then I kind of started thinking about
1:05:49
Speaker 1: that for deer hunting, but definitely not to the level
1:05:51
Speaker 1: that I should be. And I'm kind of having a
1:05:54
Speaker 1: moments right now talking with you Ryan, um about the
1:05:57
Speaker 1: place we hunted in Ohio. Um, there's just so any
1:06:00
Speaker 1: different scenarios that you're talking about, like, oh, that's why
1:06:03
Speaker 1: that buck did that, and that's why that dough you know,
1:06:06
Speaker 1: winded me there or you know, even the buck that
1:06:08
Speaker 1: I shot last year. UM, he came in right where
1:06:11
Speaker 1: he should have and I had a perfect wind, but
1:06:13
Speaker 1: he knew something was up. And I'm just kind of
1:06:15
Speaker 1: I want to go back and look at historical weather
1:06:18
Speaker 1: data because I think it was a calm bay and UM,
1:06:21
Speaker 1: you know, just thinking right now, he could have very well,
1:06:24
Speaker 1: you know, caught my cent just because of the thermals. UM.
1:06:27
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's like fascinating stuff. UM. One thing
1:06:31
Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on, um Mark you kind of
1:06:33
Speaker 1: asked my question about uh, you know us flat landers
1:06:36
Speaker 1: here and like you know where I'm hunting in southeast Michigan,
1:06:39
Speaker 1: we don't have a ton of photography. UM. You know
1:06:41
Speaker 1: other than water, Ryan, are there any like there's sort
1:06:44
Speaker 1: of natural features, UM and flatter areas that that could
1:06:49
Speaker 1: have an effect on you know, your thermals or the
1:06:52
Speaker 1: wind current. What are those kind of things that you're
1:06:55
Speaker 1: looking for in the flat areas? In the flat I mean,
1:06:58
Speaker 1: it could be any that's the flatter you know, you know,
1:07:02
Speaker 1: I know where they're talking about, um, those islands of
1:07:05
Speaker 1: trees and it could definitely alter wind wind current, UM
1:07:11
Speaker 1: air current. If you will, you know. So if you
1:07:13
Speaker 1: got a bit you know you're talking about you know,
1:07:15
Speaker 1: some of the agg agg areas where you have you
1:07:18
Speaker 1: know two hunderd acre corn fills and uh you know
1:07:21
Speaker 1: tannic or stand of oaks or you know what have you.
1:07:25
Speaker 1: Um those areas could definitely alter the wind the air
1:07:28
Speaker 1: current for sure. So any structure, anything that is rising
1:07:31
Speaker 1: above the air surface um and would allow you know,
1:07:35
Speaker 1: just like if you were displayed, if you were you know,
1:07:37
Speaker 1: had a chin hoose and were stand back and spraying
1:07:38
Speaker 1: water on it, you know what. You know, however, it
1:07:41
Speaker 1: would deflect or reflect that water. You know, whatever could
1:07:45
Speaker 1: do that to the air with you know, will in
1:07:46
Speaker 1: fact do it. The difference being out there is it's
1:07:49
Speaker 1: something gonna do it for a little bit of the time. U.
1:07:52
Speaker 1: What I mean is like if it would deflect or
1:07:55
Speaker 1: or you know, flu deflect the air, it would get
1:08:00
Speaker 1: back to its normal course rather quickly because it's not
1:08:03
Speaker 1: bouncing off of you know, five different things like in
1:08:07
Speaker 1: a region of of high topography. If that makes sense, Yeah, yeah,
1:08:13
Speaker 1: I got you cool. So if do you have a
1:08:18
Speaker 1: fault question, Josh, or should I pivot to another question?
1:08:21
Speaker 1: I think I think I'm good there. You know, I
1:08:23
Speaker 1: think I'm good. I just need to I need to
1:08:25
Speaker 1: spend more time building fires and tree stands. Please don't
1:08:28
Speaker 1: do that on any the farmers I hunt during the season. Um,
1:08:33
Speaker 1: and I'll get in there and start a fire to
1:08:35
Speaker 1: let you know how to go. Yeah, you have to
1:08:38
Speaker 1: have a lot of time. And that's all stuff I did.
1:08:40
Speaker 1: You know before I had any sense of responsibility as uh.
1:08:45
Speaker 1: And my mom used to saying that time me and
1:08:47
Speaker 1: she would just say, your head on all the amount
1:08:49
Speaker 1: of time I was wasted trying to figure out how
1:08:51
Speaker 1: to shoot it to hear, you know, And then she
1:08:53
Speaker 1: would tell why do you think these things smart? Hit
1:08:55
Speaker 1: him in my carner all the time? Yeah? I hate
1:08:58
Speaker 1: that when they said that kind of thing. It's not
1:09:00
Speaker 1: quite that easy to do. Um. So speaking of how
1:09:04
Speaker 1: it's not quite so easy, here's the here's the crux
1:09:08
Speaker 1: of the deal, though. I feel like for a lot
1:09:10
Speaker 1: of guys, when we start targeting this mature deer, one
1:09:13
Speaker 1: of these big first aha moments for a lot of
1:09:15
Speaker 1: us is understanding, oh wow, the wind is really important
1:09:17
Speaker 1: because deer have these incredible noses and we gotta make
1:09:19
Speaker 1: sure they don't smell us. So step one is figuring
1:09:22
Speaker 1: out how to try to keep deer from smelling us.
1:09:25
Speaker 1: Step two seems to be, though, how do you understand
1:09:29
Speaker 1: how a mature buck uses the wind to his advantage?
1:09:32
Speaker 1: Because right, that seems to happen a lot. And then
1:09:36
Speaker 1: with that knowledge, how do you hunt him? So how
1:09:39
Speaker 1: do you manage to keep this buck from smelling you
1:09:42
Speaker 1: but also be in the place where he wants to
1:09:43
Speaker 1: be because of the wind that he's trying to use
1:09:45
Speaker 1: to his advantage. That's like the the crux of the
1:09:49
Speaker 1: whole deal. Can you talk about I guess the first
1:09:52
Speaker 1: step being how you see mature deer using the wind?
1:09:58
Speaker 1: Are there any consistent things like mature bucks tend to
1:10:02
Speaker 1: want the wind doing x, or when they're gonna bed
1:10:05
Speaker 1: they tend to wire or anything like that As far
1:10:08
Speaker 1: as how you see mature bucks tending to want to
1:10:10
Speaker 1: use the wind or used to rain to take advantage
1:10:12
Speaker 1: of wind. Yeah, um, And again they can never say never, right,
1:10:19
Speaker 1: because there's almost the never. You know how that works.
1:10:23
Speaker 1: It's just there's always something you know that's gonna throw
1:10:26
Speaker 1: a variable there. So I'll say this, when we say
1:10:28
Speaker 1: a mature deer, you know, it's all in the abbe
1:10:32
Speaker 1: hold or some mature deer three. Some don't call mateer
1:10:36
Speaker 1: mature deer until they're five. UM. And I think with
1:10:38
Speaker 1: it's each age class, each extra year they have from
1:10:41
Speaker 1: three on take gains just a little more knowledge. But
1:10:45
Speaker 1: on the flip side, I think the order they get,
1:10:47
Speaker 1: the less they move to. So let's say order from
1:10:51
Speaker 1: after they're staking five. In my experience, I've noticed that
1:10:53
Speaker 1: their home ranges become smaller, their core ranges, core areas UM,
1:10:57
Speaker 1: and they move less but more deliberate. So for the
1:11:01
Speaker 1: most part, I like to say, you know, and again
1:11:03
Speaker 1: there's always somebody out there remember this one time when yeah,
1:11:07
Speaker 1: you know, anything can happen in a while. But for
1:11:08
Speaker 1: the most part of my experiences, UM, the mature dear
1:11:13
Speaker 1: order age class dear tend to move. I think they
1:11:16
Speaker 1: like to move with the wind quartering at their rear.
1:11:19
Speaker 1: So basically, if you think of you know, the cone shape, UM,
1:11:24
Speaker 1: when it gets their nose, if it's quartering to their rear,
1:11:26
Speaker 1: like they that gives them the biggest sense of security
1:11:30
Speaker 1: with their nose and then they obviously can see what's
1:11:32
Speaker 1: in front of them. And how I used to study
1:11:35
Speaker 1: this UM and they said, actually, how Barry and Jean
1:11:39
Speaker 1: did this back in the seventies. Uh, they cue me
1:11:42
Speaker 1: on it, but um, it should be late season or
1:11:45
Speaker 1: in the wintertime. And again in Pennsylvania playing snow as
1:11:48
Speaker 1: Michigan you could do this, but um, I would purposely
1:11:52
Speaker 1: walk around and try to jump a mature buck in
1:11:54
Speaker 1: its bed right and then track it backwards. Um, so
1:11:59
Speaker 1: when I knew it entered its bed undisturbed. Um. And
1:12:02
Speaker 1: then followed the toofprints in reverse and saw how they
1:12:06
Speaker 1: maneuvered from wherever they came from feet or he's this
1:12:09
Speaker 1: originally to get to hear and this that and the other,
1:12:11
Speaker 1: and how they used you know, how the wind was
1:12:14
Speaker 1: blown that day. So there's a ton of information to
1:12:17
Speaker 1: be learned from their tracks. And if you have a
1:12:20
Speaker 1: compass and under you know, know what the wind did
1:12:22
Speaker 1: that day or the day before, uh, and how they
1:12:25
Speaker 1: used the wind to get to where they where they
1:12:27
Speaker 1: were going to tape the deal And it was really
1:12:29
Speaker 1: I learned probably more on that with mature buck moved
1:12:34
Speaker 1: during you know that type of deal. And I did
1:12:35
Speaker 1: that for I still do that. That's you know, it's
1:12:38
Speaker 1: kind of like my early shed hunting. If I get
1:12:41
Speaker 1: out and you know, January February type of deal. But
1:12:43
Speaker 1: you know, I'm purposely looking for any and if I
1:12:45
Speaker 1: don't jump a buck, you know, you can tend to
1:12:48
Speaker 1: see a buck bed over a dough bed if it
1:12:50
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit bigger. Some of the urine marks
1:12:52
Speaker 1: in the snow and stuff, Um, I just track them
1:12:55
Speaker 1: backwards just to see how they were moving. Um, younger bucks,
1:12:58
Speaker 1: you know, the year and a half and the two
1:13:00
Speaker 1: in the house, they seem to be very sporadic, just
1:13:02
Speaker 1: kind of all over the place, like you know, and
1:13:05
Speaker 1: equated to people humans if you will, like a year
1:13:08
Speaker 1: and a half old block, I kind of equate to
1:13:10
Speaker 1: like a thirteen year old boy to nineteen year old boy.
1:13:13
Speaker 1: I mean, think of how active you were in that
1:13:15
Speaker 1: time frame. And then a two year old buck or
1:13:17
Speaker 1: two and a half year old buck to be over
1:13:19
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty, still pretty happy, you know, you still
1:13:21
Speaker 1: have that immature this to you, but you still, you know,
1:13:25
Speaker 1: kind of settled in your ways a little bit. And
1:13:27
Speaker 1: then obviously thirty and forty, you're just getting more set
1:13:29
Speaker 1: on your ways. You tend to move last. You know,
1:13:32
Speaker 1: you don't go to the gym as much you're getting heavier, um,
1:13:35
Speaker 1: and forty you know, forty to fifty to be year
1:13:37
Speaker 1: four and a half year old, you know, same type
1:13:39
Speaker 1: of thing. And then I noticed their core areas getting smaller.
1:13:44
Speaker 1: I noticed their betting areas becoming posted closer together. I
1:13:47
Speaker 1: didn't notice they betted in different areas. It's really surprised.
1:13:50
Speaker 1: One buck in particular, Um, and he did this for
1:13:53
Speaker 1: a couple of years in a row. He betted right
1:13:55
Speaker 1: next to the highway. Uh. And he tended to only
1:13:58
Speaker 1: do it in gun season, and I only it was
1:14:01
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania and Ian it was he was literally at
1:14:04
Speaker 1: the time, you know, would have been a really nice buck,
1:14:06
Speaker 1: I mean nice buck anytime. But then there wasn't a lot,
1:14:09
Speaker 1: you know, it was he was the eleven point, like
1:14:11
Speaker 1: I don't know, probably right at one forty and I
1:14:14
Speaker 1: killed a buck with my bow that season, and um,
1:14:18
Speaker 1: you know, you know, you get one buck in Pennsylvania,
1:14:20
Speaker 1: you're done type of deal. So I was, you know,
1:14:21
Speaker 1: sitting the bench in gun season and I actually was,
1:14:24
Speaker 1: you know, just out riding around the first morning a
1:14:27
Speaker 1: gun season, like opening day a gun season, and PA
1:14:29
Speaker 1: is a huge deal. And it was just the right
1:14:31
Speaker 1: daylight and I actually cut this buck going into his
1:14:34
Speaker 1: band area. I watched, I watched him bed down the
1:14:36
Speaker 1: snow on the team and uh, I rode past him.
1:14:39
Speaker 1: Four days in a row he was still laying in
1:14:41
Speaker 1: the same squat and never I mean, obviously he probably
1:14:43
Speaker 1: got up at nighttime, but he went back there to
1:14:45
Speaker 1: bed four days in a row, and then on the
1:14:48
Speaker 1: last Saturday or a gun seasons two weeks, he was
1:14:50
Speaker 1: still there on the last Saturday. So he had found
1:14:52
Speaker 1: that little spot. And I never saw him there again
1:14:55
Speaker 1: ever after that. And then the following year I purposely
1:14:59
Speaker 1: went and watched for that. It was just to see
1:15:01
Speaker 1: and it was actually it was in a pretty high
1:15:02
Speaker 1: pressured area and lo and behold that buck a year
1:15:06
Speaker 1: later was betting in that same area. So it was
1:15:09
Speaker 1: fascinating how he had found you know, literally, I'm talking
1:15:13
Speaker 1: like a half an acre just deepending on what the
1:15:15
Speaker 1: highway to his back and he just you know, looked
1:15:18
Speaker 1: down through the what's type of deal and it was
1:15:20
Speaker 1: like almost in a little triangled area. Um, and you know,
1:15:24
Speaker 1: he just found the place to do safe. And I
1:15:26
Speaker 1: don't know if any hunter killing him, because I knew
1:15:28
Speaker 1: someone hunters at other end I can only imagine that
1:15:31
Speaker 1: he probably got I bet he ended up getting hit
1:15:33
Speaker 1: by a car, because a lot of deer get hit there,
1:15:36
Speaker 1: you know, after they would have shared or stuff like that.
1:15:38
Speaker 1: And it was crazy to me how he knew that
1:15:40
Speaker 1: that road could keep him so safe, yet it was
1:15:42
Speaker 1: probably what ended up killing because I don't think the
1:15:44
Speaker 1: hunter killed him. I would have I lived right there.
1:15:47
Speaker 1: I was sure enough had heard about it. But anyway, um,
1:15:50
Speaker 1: I learned all that, you know, I would go in
1:15:52
Speaker 1: there and follow his tracks and see how they moved
1:15:54
Speaker 1: and such. That's a great way to do it. That
1:15:57
Speaker 1: that's uh, it's it's so hard to tell what a
1:16:02
Speaker 1: buck is thinking or or factoring into his movements if
1:16:06
Speaker 1: you're just like seeing him and at point now, like
1:16:09
Speaker 1: if you show him show up, he pops out into
1:16:11
Speaker 1: a field, and if you try to make assumptions about
1:16:14
Speaker 1: how he got there, it's it's really easy to make
1:16:16
Speaker 1: the wrong assumption without doing what you just said, actually backtracking.
1:16:20
Speaker 1: Like that's such a smart way to do it. And
1:16:21
Speaker 1: obviously you can't do that during hunting season without probably
1:16:24
Speaker 1: blowing things out to some degree. But that's a really
1:16:28
Speaker 1: smart idea to do that in the postseason and and
1:16:31
Speaker 1: and be able to take those lessons to learn and
1:16:33
Speaker 1: apply them to the future year. Um. And that's probably
1:16:36
Speaker 1: why I'm such a poor stand hunter because of that
1:16:39
Speaker 1: type of stuff that looks for ship. But you know,
1:16:42
Speaker 1: back to, each deer has its own individual personality, and
1:16:46
Speaker 1: you know, back to for the majority of hunters out there,
1:16:49
Speaker 1: if you hutting a specific deer, to do that too.
1:16:52
Speaker 1: It's still beneficial to you to know how de your
1:16:55
Speaker 1: move and just play those odd You know, the deer
1:16:58
Speaker 1: you may be hunting may or may not be on
1:17:00
Speaker 1: that you know, but that's okay. If you're you're still
1:17:02
Speaker 1: at it. You're stacking the odds in your favor. So
1:17:05
Speaker 1: you know, if you're if you can and again those
1:17:08
Speaker 1: aha moments when you it sounds like a lot. I'm
1:17:10
Speaker 1: sure that your listeners, you know that aren't versed in this,
1:17:13
Speaker 1: they're like, oh my god, this is way too much information.
1:17:15
Speaker 1: I never hunting again. It's crazy. It does sound like
1:17:18
Speaker 1: a lot. I get that. But if you just start
1:17:20
Speaker 1: like thinking about a little bit and piecing it together,
1:17:23
Speaker 1: and you know, and the next time you're on piece
1:17:25
Speaker 1: little morning next season, it's a little more then all
1:17:27
Speaker 1: of a sudden it does click and you're understanding. You
1:17:30
Speaker 1: can look at the weather station and you see the
1:17:32
Speaker 1: wind direction and you know from past experiences you know
1:17:36
Speaker 1: what this. You know, whatever stand you have on this
1:17:38
Speaker 1: north ridge of the morning works little why and you
1:17:40
Speaker 1: know you can position you know, you know which way
1:17:42
Speaker 1: that they're gonna be using that. It's because historically, you know,
1:17:46
Speaker 1: traditionally speaking dear older age class box tend to move
1:17:49
Speaker 1: this direction. If they come the other way, then that's
1:17:51
Speaker 1: okay too. But you know, you it's all about stacking
1:17:54
Speaker 1: those odds in your favor, especially if you don't have
1:17:56
Speaker 1: a specific form that you can hang you and you're
1:17:59
Speaker 1: out and an odd hunting specific deer. Yeah. Yeah, And
1:18:03
Speaker 1: and this is definitely one of those advanced topics that
1:18:06
Speaker 1: that we're getting here. We're diving deep in the weeds.
1:18:08
Speaker 1: So if if you are new, do not feel bad
1:18:10
Speaker 1: if this is like whoa, this is a whole lot
1:18:12
Speaker 1: of crap. Um at the at the very basic level,
1:18:15
Speaker 1: you know, start kind where you said, Ryan, Um, this
1:18:17
Speaker 1: is one of those things. As you dive deeper and
1:18:20
Speaker 1: deeper and deeper, that's when it's okay to start thinking
1:18:22
Speaker 1: about things to this degree. Um. Do not feel bad
1:18:25
Speaker 1: for being a little overwhelmed if if you're if you're new. Uh.
1:18:28
Speaker 1: That said, though, we're gonna continue going down the advanced
1:18:31
Speaker 1: path for those who are at that point in their
1:18:33
Speaker 1: hunting journey. So if we're thinking that the deer as
1:18:36
Speaker 1: you described in some way or another are using wind
1:18:39
Speaker 1: in their favor to move, the issue I've you know,
1:18:43
Speaker 1: always think about that is okay, if if I if
1:18:46
Speaker 1: I'm expecting this deer to come to where I'm standing, like,
1:18:49
Speaker 1: if that's what I'm hoping for right where I'm sitting
1:18:51
Speaker 1: in a tree, I'm hoping he's gonna come here. But
1:18:53
Speaker 1: if that happens, and if we believe that a buck
1:18:57
Speaker 1: is usually going to be moving with the wind some
1:19:00
Speaker 1: in his favor so he can understand what's happening to
1:19:02
Speaker 1: some degree, many times that means that he's going to
1:19:05
Speaker 1: have the wind blowing towards him, possibly from where I am,
1:19:08
Speaker 1: although I guess the scenari you painted is a little
1:19:10
Speaker 1: bit more rear in quartering. So maybe you can get
1:19:13
Speaker 1: away with what I'm going to describe a little bit better.
1:19:15
Speaker 1: What I'm what I'm basically trying to get at is
1:19:18
Speaker 1: can you talk to me about how you think about
1:19:20
Speaker 1: setting up in situations where the deer has the wind
1:19:23
Speaker 1: in their favor, but you also have the wind in
1:19:25
Speaker 1: your favor. Um, Can you describe how you think about
1:19:28
Speaker 1: that and lay out how that might work. So this
1:19:33
Speaker 1: is where it gets. This can get into you know,
1:19:35
Speaker 1: the really advanced level and off into the wheats. But
1:19:38
Speaker 1: there's two There's two ways I hunt, Like if I'm
1:19:42
Speaker 1: going into there's two different scenarios I can and I
1:19:45
Speaker 1: know what you're saying. But if I'm hunting a specific
1:19:48
Speaker 1: deer like I was this morning, or not really hunting
1:19:51
Speaker 1: that deer, but in that scenario, a deer I know
1:19:52
Speaker 1: a lot of form, I know well, and I'm probably
1:19:55
Speaker 1: not gonna shoot any other deer than than that type
1:19:57
Speaker 1: of deer. I almost want I try to position to
1:20:00
Speaker 1: myself where my wind is almost wrong, if that makes sense, um,
1:20:06
Speaker 1: because that when I know how the deer using the
1:20:09
Speaker 1: terrain to get from point A to point being what
1:20:11
Speaker 1: they're doing. And let me rewind. The time of year
1:20:14
Speaker 1: plays a big role in that as well. I'm speaking
1:20:17
Speaker 1: specifically speaking, you know, from the middle of October to
1:20:20
Speaker 1: first of December, so not not those two weeks of run.
1:20:23
Speaker 1: But when those deer up on their feet, you know,
1:20:25
Speaker 1: trying to find a girlfriend type the deal for the
1:20:27
Speaker 1: most part. So they're they're covering as much ground they can,
1:20:31
Speaker 1: you know, while they're on their feet and they're using
1:20:33
Speaker 1: their nose to do it. You know, they're they're if
1:20:34
Speaker 1: they're older deer, they tend to be lazy, and they're
1:20:38
Speaker 1: trying to cover as much ground they can find every
1:20:40
Speaker 1: septide as quickly as they can. And get with that though,
1:20:43
Speaker 1: and then you entered a lockdown phase or whatever. But
1:20:46
Speaker 1: so how how in my mind, I don't want my
1:20:50
Speaker 1: wind almost wrong so almost paralleling like it's it's it's
1:20:55
Speaker 1: real close to being wrong, but so close to being
1:20:57
Speaker 1: like you're never going to get it better for getting
1:21:00
Speaker 1: is deer. You know inside of that twenty yard and
1:21:03
Speaker 1: rewind I stumbled on it. There's I still do a
1:21:06
Speaker 1: hunt with a recurve some but there was five or
1:21:08
Speaker 1: six us where I specifically hunting the recurps. Say again,
1:21:11
Speaker 1: I took that, you know, my fifty yard range moment
1:21:14
Speaker 1: from a compound found the twenty yard and recurp. So
1:21:17
Speaker 1: you just gotta figure those those spots out. And then
1:21:20
Speaker 1: also not only the wind direction being on this wrong
1:21:23
Speaker 1: the perfect spot, you know, being a really nearrow funnel
1:21:27
Speaker 1: where you almost kind of have them pinned in there,
1:21:30
Speaker 1: you know, type of deal. Like when they're there, you've
1:21:32
Speaker 1: got wind in your favor and they're inside of your
1:21:35
Speaker 1: wheelhouse and they have no idea that they just just
1:21:38
Speaker 1: walk right into the trap type of deal. Um, that's
1:21:41
Speaker 1: the perfect scenario. But that's the somebody again hunting a
1:21:46
Speaker 1: very specific deer, probably with history with it and knows
1:21:49
Speaker 1: the ground really well, you know, and understands how the
1:21:52
Speaker 1: wind moves around the ground and such. Um. For the
1:21:55
Speaker 1: most part, when I get asked that question, or if
1:21:58
Speaker 1: I'm explaining to people like, uh, you know, the different
1:22:01
Speaker 1: way is you're hunting an age class of deer, not
1:22:04
Speaker 1: a specific deer. So let's just say some of your
1:22:07
Speaker 1: listeners just want to hunt an older age class gear.
1:22:09
Speaker 1: So let's just say, you know, we're just loving for
1:22:11
Speaker 1: a two year old deer, you know, we want to
1:22:12
Speaker 1: killing a nice buck type of deal. Then what I'm
1:22:15
Speaker 1: trying to do is position myself to where if in
1:22:18
Speaker 1: my scouting missions or when I'm looking to talk down maps,
1:22:21
Speaker 1: I'm trying to identify those areas that are gonna hold
1:22:23
Speaker 1: fig numbers of deer, you know those and fallings and such,
1:22:26
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to look for those key areas
1:22:29
Speaker 1: that those transition areas that that or those hogbacks or
1:22:33
Speaker 1: funnels or whatever they be that connect those areas. So
1:22:36
Speaker 1: you gotta abating areas. Some calls over here and you
1:22:40
Speaker 1: have another one over here, Well how do they get
1:22:42
Speaker 1: from there to there? And then how can I get
1:22:45
Speaker 1: to you know, in between those areas the most undetectable,
1:22:50
Speaker 1: and by most undetectable, not walking through their way, but
1:22:53
Speaker 1: also taking a step further. I don't I think there
1:22:57
Speaker 1: are a lot of hunters mess up by waw came
1:23:00
Speaker 1: to that perfect spot within mind that they're gonna hunt
1:23:02
Speaker 1: the perfect wind, but while they were walking there, they're
1:23:05
Speaker 1: set was blowing to the area that they're expecting. The
1:23:08
Speaker 1: deer tay frm, you know as well as deer snow.
1:23:11
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people that much deer just
1:23:13
Speaker 1: was sent on me, you know, especially out West Montana, Miami.
1:23:17
Speaker 1: I know guys that do deer nudge is if you will,
1:23:19
Speaker 1: from a half mile away, just using their scent, that
1:23:21
Speaker 1: run deer on the block. September just by letting their
1:23:24
Speaker 1: their sent drift into the block September. So it's one
1:23:27
Speaker 1: thing to say of camin X tree stand and I've
1:23:30
Speaker 1: got everything set in my favor. I expect the deer
1:23:33
Speaker 1: you know, to be to the north and me moving
1:23:35
Speaker 1: from east to west. The wind is only the northwest
1:23:38
Speaker 1: and my sense going to the southeast, and this is
1:23:40
Speaker 1: the perfect transition point between those two spots. But yet
1:23:44
Speaker 1: they parked, you know whatever, three hundred yards from that
1:23:48
Speaker 1: that that area, and that they walked to their stand
1:23:51
Speaker 1: with the wind blown with into that area. So you
1:23:54
Speaker 1: have I think it's just as important to keep in
1:23:57
Speaker 1: mind entering and exiting with the wind end in your
1:24:00
Speaker 1: favor as well hunting into me in your favor. So again,
1:24:04
Speaker 1: when you're just hunting an age class of deer in
1:24:06
Speaker 1: that you know, five or six week time frame when
1:24:09
Speaker 1: they're gonna be on their feet the most in their
1:24:11
Speaker 1: life they're out there, do you want to find those
1:24:13
Speaker 1: those areas that they're gonna use their nose to check,
1:24:17
Speaker 1: uh for receptive those and find those transition points in
1:24:20
Speaker 1: between those hogbacks and those funnels that connect those areas,
1:24:23
Speaker 1: those little drainages. There's a little just those little things,
1:24:26
Speaker 1: you know, where they narrating where you know they're gonna
1:24:28
Speaker 1: walk through, and and you can even manipulate that. I've
1:24:31
Speaker 1: you know, I've cut tree down and and and I've
1:24:34
Speaker 1: even built snow fence. Uh you know that snow fence
1:24:38
Speaker 1: so as you can alter movement with that UM on
1:24:41
Speaker 1: a big ridgeline. Um. You know, I've I've struved that
1:24:45
Speaker 1: stuff up throughout the woods. And and you know at
1:24:47
Speaker 1: an angle you don't want it on a ninety, but
1:24:49
Speaker 1: as an angle, just like if you were to dump
1:24:51
Speaker 1: water on it, you know you wanted to go in
1:24:53
Speaker 1: a certain way. Uh, deer would come across that and
1:24:55
Speaker 1: they would get to that that orange snow fence. It's
1:24:58
Speaker 1: something like thirty set or thirty inches high twenty seven
1:25:01
Speaker 1: inches high. They don't jump over. It's amazing to me
1:25:04
Speaker 1: that they come to it and then they just fall it,
1:25:06
Speaker 1: you know, like where at the angle you have it
1:25:08
Speaker 1: on and then you stop at like eighteen yards in
1:25:11
Speaker 1: front of your stand type and there they are. UM
1:25:14
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe check your laws. But I know
1:25:16
Speaker 1: I think got an aisl one time, and it's not
1:25:18
Speaker 1: able to do. There's only a sixty yards snow fence,
1:25:21
Speaker 1: but it altered their movement. Um, so you can do that,
1:25:24
Speaker 1: and you know you when you're I was hunting with
1:25:26
Speaker 1: the recurve, so I needed, you know, in that that
1:25:28
Speaker 1: twenty yard range type of deal. So three interla. There's
1:25:33
Speaker 1: two two different styles that are hunt. I'm hunt a
1:25:36
Speaker 1: specific here. You know, I'm really getting advanced level there.
1:25:40
Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to try to almost have if
1:25:42
Speaker 1: I think that that he's doing most of his moving
1:25:45
Speaker 1: with the wind, you know, quartering to him a little bit.
1:25:49
Speaker 1: And again town of years have a lot to do
1:25:51
Speaker 1: with that. If he's if he's if it's the heat
1:25:53
Speaker 1: of the moment, like you know, there's two weeks in
1:25:55
Speaker 1: November and October and November kill Thanksgiving, then I would
1:25:59
Speaker 1: tend to think they probably move a little bit more
1:26:01
Speaker 1: of the wind and they're using their nose to get
1:26:03
Speaker 1: around rather than trying to stand alive. Their focus has
1:26:06
Speaker 1: changed just a little bit from that that prey animal
1:26:09
Speaker 1: and I know things are trying to kill them. They
1:26:11
Speaker 1: want to stay alive. That's my best way of doing
1:26:13
Speaker 1: that too. I'm trying to read and you know, sorry
1:26:16
Speaker 1: young type of deal. So, uh, that movement can change
1:26:20
Speaker 1: a little bit, but I still I still use the
1:26:22
Speaker 1: wind just where you know it's it's a very touchy
1:26:24
Speaker 1: wind right there. It's hard to explain on there if
1:26:28
Speaker 1: from doing a good job of it. No, you are,
1:26:30
Speaker 1: you are? Um, I want to I want to throw
1:26:33
Speaker 1: an example out at you of my own situation and
1:26:35
Speaker 1: kind of here, um, what you think about some of
1:26:38
Speaker 1: my ideas on this, or kind of putting what you're
1:26:41
Speaker 1: talking to into into actions. So I've got this deer
1:26:44
Speaker 1: I've been hunting forever. Everyone knows I've been talking about
1:26:46
Speaker 1: this stupid deer forever. We'll we'll call him h And
1:26:51
Speaker 1: I've got a spot on the edge of one of
1:26:53
Speaker 1: the main betting airs he hangs out, and that's that's
1:26:55
Speaker 1: to the west of me. I'm sorry, to the east
1:26:56
Speaker 1: of me, and I can't hunt in there because it's
1:26:59
Speaker 1: on the a ring landowners. So we often, though have
1:27:03
Speaker 1: westerly winds blowing from my side of the line into
1:27:07
Speaker 1: the bedding area where he's at. I've always assumed though,
1:27:10
Speaker 1: and based on pictures in the past, he most often
1:27:13
Speaker 1: comes out to my side of the line when we've
1:27:16
Speaker 1: got those kinds of winds, Because as you're talking about,
1:27:19
Speaker 1: he wants to have like a southwest or northwest or
1:27:22
Speaker 1: west wind where he can see what he's getting or
1:27:25
Speaker 1: smell what he's getting himself into. He's trying to use
1:27:27
Speaker 1: that usually quartering too into some degree when he's gonna
1:27:30
Speaker 1: come out to feed or check does or whatever in
1:27:32
Speaker 1: this area where there's there's a food source that a
1:27:34
Speaker 1: lot of does come to. But I have also historically
1:27:36
Speaker 1: hunted this area decent b now over the past three years,
1:27:39
Speaker 1: trying to kill this dear. So I've always thought I
1:27:43
Speaker 1: can't hunt there with a due west wind because it
1:27:44
Speaker 1: blows right into that stuff. Um. But I've always always
1:27:49
Speaker 1: the one time I've tried, or when I try to
1:27:51
Speaker 1: hunt him is usually when there's like a northwest wind
1:27:53
Speaker 1: or maybe a southwest wind, because I kind of, as
1:27:56
Speaker 1: you're alluded to, I think I can maybe cut the
1:27:59
Speaker 1: corners there, um, hoping that he's more west of me,
1:28:02
Speaker 1: You're sorry, more east of me, so that I'll go
1:28:04
Speaker 1: kind of angled beneath him. He'll still want to come
1:28:06
Speaker 1: out that way because he's got a quartering wind. It's
1:28:09
Speaker 1: in his favor. My hope being that the wind angle
1:28:12
Speaker 1: will be just enough off of that where he's coming
1:28:14
Speaker 1: from that will slip past him. So that's usually snare.
1:28:17
Speaker 1: I try hunting it in UM. So that's how I've
1:28:19
Speaker 1: done the past. Sometimes, though, do you end up still
1:28:23
Speaker 1: catching my wind because I am blowing in the general
1:28:25
Speaker 1: direction of the bed and cutting the bottom of it.
1:28:28
Speaker 1: So I've gotten blown out a handful of times doing that,
1:28:30
Speaker 1: and I'm almost excuse me, always kicking myself like ask you,
1:28:33
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have done that. Um. He never showed up,
1:28:36
Speaker 1: probably because I spooked some does and alarmed the whole area. Man,
1:28:41
Speaker 1: I can't talk. But going back to something you mentioned
1:28:46
Speaker 1: the beginning thermals and pressure, I'm wondering if I might
1:28:50
Speaker 1: be able to better get away with this kind of
1:28:51
Speaker 1: scenario if I'm in a situation where I have one
1:28:54
Speaker 1: of those light wind days where I have a high
1:28:57
Speaker 1: pressure day that's pulling up my there. So maybe I
1:29:00
Speaker 1: hunt this when I have that kind of quartering winds
1:29:03
Speaker 1: like a northwest wind. It's just off of where I
1:29:05
Speaker 1: think he is. But I might be able to get
1:29:07
Speaker 1: away with it even better if I waited for that
1:29:10
Speaker 1: scenario with the high pressure that's kind of pushing my
1:29:13
Speaker 1: wind up on Maybe that kind of lightish wind day.
1:29:16
Speaker 1: UM is my way of thinking through this the way
1:29:19
Speaker 1: you envision people thinking how to make these decisions, factoring
1:29:23
Speaker 1: in thermals, pressure, wind and how dear use all that. Yeah,
1:29:30
Speaker 1: But when I think, I don't think, I don't think
1:29:32
Speaker 1: like the every day bow hunter deer hunter goes into
1:29:35
Speaker 1: it like that. I think you know wind and thermals,
1:29:39
Speaker 1: or you could probably take thermals and air currents and
1:29:42
Speaker 1: how the equation. It's just when you talk one oh
1:29:44
Speaker 1: one and most people think of it wind and more
1:29:48
Speaker 1: so wind direction. Um. What you're explaining, I think is
1:29:51
Speaker 1: a very advanced level. When I think, you know you're
1:29:53
Speaker 1: probably onto something there. You know, again, those high pressure days,
1:29:56
Speaker 1: light air days, UM definitely give you the advantage. Then
1:30:00
Speaker 1: I think that quartering wind, if you almost that wrong wind,
1:30:03
Speaker 1: as long as it's as long as you know it's
1:30:05
Speaker 1: not going somewhere and hitting something and edding back into
1:30:10
Speaker 1: the area where you think is holding that deer, you know,
1:30:12
Speaker 1: I think that's probably your best bet. But I you know,
1:30:15
Speaker 1: i'd be I'd check on that first to make sure
1:30:17
Speaker 1: you know you'd somehow inadvertently your sense not entering that
1:30:21
Speaker 1: deer's betting area even when you think you have the
1:30:23
Speaker 1: wind direction, nail it down. But to answer your question is, yes,
1:30:27
Speaker 1: how you're looking at it, I think it's a very
1:30:29
Speaker 1: advanced and I wanted it's a correct way to do it. Um.
1:30:32
Speaker 1: But I think probably most deer hunters, you know, the
1:30:36
Speaker 1: you know, the one oh one version is just you know,
1:30:39
Speaker 1: the winds coming out of the north, and I want
1:30:41
Speaker 1: deer north of me, so I want, you know, my
1:30:43
Speaker 1: sense to the south. That type of deal. Very basic. Yeah,
1:30:47
Speaker 1: and then a great place to start, Yes, absolutely. Um.
1:30:51
Speaker 1: One final thing on the wind side of things that
1:30:54
Speaker 1: we haven't touched on is when it comes to all
1:30:55
Speaker 1: this stuff, does any of this change if you're hunting
1:30:58
Speaker 1: in a ground blind or a box blind versus a
1:31:01
Speaker 1: tree stane um necessarily changed. I found in a ground
1:31:07
Speaker 1: blind that it seems to be they're just they're just
1:31:11
Speaker 1: more in tune, I think, because maybe it's because if
1:31:14
Speaker 1: my thermals are going up, I'm on the ground, so
1:31:17
Speaker 1: you know, I'm down on their level. And then you know,
1:31:19
Speaker 1: quite on the on the flip side of an evening,
1:31:22
Speaker 1: if I'm in the ground blind, usually on a food plot,
1:31:24
Speaker 1: so then it usually is an evening in the early season,
1:31:27
Speaker 1: and um, I just find dear when I'm on the
1:31:30
Speaker 1: ground at their level of an evening. When I know
1:31:32
Speaker 1: the thermals are coming down, I just feel like they're
1:31:34
Speaker 1: high learned all the time. UM. Let's say I haven't
1:31:38
Speaker 1: had luck. I've I've had, you know, instances in luck
1:31:41
Speaker 1: where what they weren't alarmed, But um, it's I think
1:31:45
Speaker 1: it definitely gets trickier in the ground blind depending on
1:31:48
Speaker 1: the situation. You know, close quarters I like to call it.
1:31:51
Speaker 1: If you're in somewhere tight expecting them to be close
1:31:53
Speaker 1: to you. Um, you know you you you have to
1:31:57
Speaker 1: take in a lot of consideration to your scent and
1:31:59
Speaker 1: then also the noise that you make inside of it. Um.
1:32:03
Speaker 1: I've not had I've hunted out of the tower blinds
1:32:07
Speaker 1: in Texas. UM, but I don't have a whole lot
1:32:09
Speaker 1: of experience out of them. I basically hunt lock on
1:32:14
Speaker 1: everywhere else, lock ons and ladder stands. Do you do
1:32:17
Speaker 1: you think that any of these things when it comes
1:32:19
Speaker 1: to how you're thinking about wind do you think any
1:32:23
Speaker 1: of this is different in a public land or heavily
1:32:26
Speaker 1: pressured area versus big private property that's well managed and
1:32:30
Speaker 1: very little hunting pressure. Do you see any of this
1:32:33
Speaker 1: do you would you think about differently at all in
1:32:34
Speaker 1: those two scenarios don't necessarily differently. You know, I think
1:32:40
Speaker 1: the more information you're armed with again stacking those odds
1:32:43
Speaker 1: in your favors of benefit. Um. I think being able
1:32:47
Speaker 1: to apply a lot of the you know, this type
1:32:50
Speaker 1: of thought process on public land. Uh, it is more
1:32:54
Speaker 1: difficult to do just because you probably don't have history
1:32:57
Speaker 1: with the animals trying to hunt. Um, you may not
1:33:01
Speaker 1: have as much knowledge of the topography because you know,
1:33:04
Speaker 1: most public lands are pretty big areas. Uh, the pressure
1:33:07
Speaker 1: factor goes up. So I think the deer are definitely
1:33:10
Speaker 1: you know, they may move less, they're very you know,
1:33:12
Speaker 1: probably more on hotler, depending on pressure. So it just
1:33:15
Speaker 1: makes it more difficult to apply. But if you do
1:33:18
Speaker 1: understand it and can't apply it again, you're putting those
1:33:21
Speaker 1: odds in your favor for sure. Um. But you know,
1:33:24
Speaker 1: I hunted a lot of public land, you know, and
1:33:27
Speaker 1: honestly back in the day when you know, when I
1:33:29
Speaker 1: was just you know, late teens, early twenties, and I
1:33:32
Speaker 1: didn't even have a treat and I did a lot
1:33:34
Speaker 1: of hunting off the ground. I did a lot of
1:33:35
Speaker 1: steel hunting. Um, when the weather was right for it
1:33:39
Speaker 1: or you know, I did a lot of bow hunting
1:33:41
Speaker 1: in the rain and a rainstorm and just just sneak
1:33:44
Speaker 1: around and check on different areas, and I've shot a
1:33:46
Speaker 1: lot of deer off the ground, um, And you learn
1:33:49
Speaker 1: a lot when you get in close quarters like that.
1:33:51
Speaker 1: You know, scenarios tend to play themselves out more because
1:33:54
Speaker 1: you have a bow and you're on the ground and
1:33:56
Speaker 1: you know, for whatever, he couldn't get a shot off
1:33:58
Speaker 1: or this, that and the other. So just so the
1:34:00
Speaker 1: simple fact that you're there in experiencing it in a
1:34:03
Speaker 1: scenario is playing out um. Whereas if you were a
1:34:06
Speaker 1: down home or you know, maybe you weren't even there,
1:34:09
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't learn anything from it. So just
1:34:11
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, you put yourself in those situations,
1:34:14
Speaker 1: you get to learn from it. Um. I think access
1:34:17
Speaker 1: is the hardest thing on public plan especially. You know,
1:34:20
Speaker 1: when I was hunting a lot of public land, a
1:34:22
Speaker 1: lot of it was really hard to get to and
1:34:25
Speaker 1: you worked your butt off, you know, to get to it.
1:34:27
Speaker 1: You're tired by the time you got their type of
1:34:29
Speaker 1: deal and then you know, you had a hunt all day,
1:34:31
Speaker 1: change your clothes and you know this that you know,
1:34:33
Speaker 1: so it's definitely a unique set of challenges for sure. Yeah.
1:34:37
Speaker 1: And I know that I know that access, entry and
1:34:39
Speaker 1: exit and all that is something that that you really
1:34:43
Speaker 1: focus on is an important part of your hunting strategy
1:34:46
Speaker 1: when you're tireding mature deer. Um. And you alluded to
1:34:49
Speaker 1: it a little bit earlier when you said you want
1:34:51
Speaker 1: to make sure your winds not blowing into areas you
1:34:53
Speaker 1: think the deer are going to be when you're coming
1:34:55
Speaker 1: in and out. Um, can you can you give us
1:34:57
Speaker 1: some more detail into what you think about when it
1:35:00
Speaker 1: comes to accessing and exiting properties and and anything like
1:35:03
Speaker 1: the more advanced ways you go about trying to get
1:35:07
Speaker 1: a good entry and exit. Yeah. Um. You know, when
1:35:13
Speaker 1: I've been set up a property or new property type
1:35:16
Speaker 1: of deal, uh, you know, I look at the top
1:35:19
Speaker 1: of the maps and you do some boots on the
1:35:20
Speaker 1: ground stuff, and you know, the late winter, early spring,
1:35:24
Speaker 1: so you're looking at old sign and you know, just
1:35:27
Speaker 1: you're seeing where everything kind of comes together and where
1:35:29
Speaker 1: you need to be, and you know, you put an
1:35:30
Speaker 1: X on the map type of deal or drop a
1:35:32
Speaker 1: pin and then you know you look at the parking
1:35:34
Speaker 1: area and even if it's program and you still have
1:35:36
Speaker 1: areas where you can park type of deal, and then
1:35:38
Speaker 1: you figure out the best ways in there. Um. So
1:35:41
Speaker 1: just as you're looking for that stand location, I think
1:35:43
Speaker 1: it's in the late winter, it's just as important to
1:35:46
Speaker 1: look for those areas where you think there are going
1:35:49
Speaker 1: to feed come the upcoming both season and where they're
1:35:52
Speaker 1: gonna you know bad the upcoming both season. So where
1:35:55
Speaker 1: they're at, where they're gonna be coming from, and where
1:35:57
Speaker 1: they're gonna be going to. And then you say you
1:36:00
Speaker 1: have okay this, you know, you find in the areas
1:36:02
Speaker 1: just tore up with sign, rubs and scrapes and you know,
1:36:05
Speaker 1: inside edges and you know, has everything. Uh, then you
1:36:08
Speaker 1: want to ask yourself, well, I know that you were here,
1:36:10
Speaker 1: they laid down all the sign where did they come from?
1:36:12
Speaker 1: So then you need to find okay, and you men,
1:36:14
Speaker 1: you know, late winter you're looking at tracks, you know,
1:36:16
Speaker 1: and you're following backwards and you find a couple of
1:36:19
Speaker 1: thickets here and there or hill set its and you
1:36:21
Speaker 1: know it maybe you know probably that time of year
1:36:24
Speaker 1: it's just south facing slope to catch the morning sun
1:36:26
Speaker 1: and that type of deal. And then you look at
1:36:29
Speaker 1: all that so you have on your back you know
1:36:31
Speaker 1: where you want to hunt, you know where you think
1:36:33
Speaker 1: the majority that you're coming from, um, and even where
1:36:36
Speaker 1: they're gonna go if there past you type you know,
1:36:38
Speaker 1: once they passed you, and okay, then here's where I park.
1:36:41
Speaker 1: Now how can I get there? You know on a
1:36:44
Speaker 1: predominant in my areas, you know, the predominant winds or
1:36:47
Speaker 1: south southwest and west. Uh you get a lot of
1:36:50
Speaker 1: noitherally winds in late October, early November. So I'm gonna
1:36:54
Speaker 1: park only a couple of specific areas no matter what.
1:36:57
Speaker 1: Usually even you know, the most private farm, you know,
1:37:00
Speaker 1: you probably only have a couple of specific parking areas.
1:37:03
Speaker 1: And sometimes you're just gonna walk way out of your
1:37:05
Speaker 1: way and you may have to walk driving upstream bed
1:37:08
Speaker 1: or down the hard top road. I've done that a lot.
1:37:10
Speaker 1: You know. One of the neighbors where I hunt, he
1:37:13
Speaker 1: thinks I'm crazy, which just me, you know, me parting
1:37:15
Speaker 1: my truck at the barnom and you know, I walked,
1:37:18
Speaker 1: you know, between a quarter and a half a mile
1:37:20
Speaker 1: down the road past his house and and then it
1:37:22
Speaker 1: was above his house, and you know he's like, what
1:37:25
Speaker 1: are you doing? You know type of deal. But you know,
1:37:27
Speaker 1: then I get into a drainage and you know, I
1:37:30
Speaker 1: sneak my way into a stand. It makes all the
1:37:32
Speaker 1: difference in the world, you know where and when you
1:37:34
Speaker 1: start doing that stuff and paying attention to entering and
1:37:38
Speaker 1: uh leaving a stand site undisturbed hunting, undisturbed deer, your
1:37:42
Speaker 1: deer sighting, one of those talking buck sightings. But you
1:37:45
Speaker 1: know when you're going to stand, like you specifically when
1:37:47
Speaker 1: when you were going into a stand not paying attention
1:37:50
Speaker 1: to that stuff and you see two or three four
1:37:52
Speaker 1: deer and it's set and everything was good, and you
1:37:55
Speaker 1: know you're a happy type of deal. And then you
1:37:56
Speaker 1: really start paying attention to those little details. And when
1:37:59
Speaker 1: you use you see you know, two or three or
1:38:01
Speaker 1: four dear, and now you're seeing eight, nine, ten, and
1:38:03
Speaker 1: three of them were bucks, and one of them was
1:38:05
Speaker 1: a big shooter, and no one of them the most
1:38:07
Speaker 1: important part, none of them knew you were there. Um.
1:38:10
Speaker 1: You know that's when it really really cool feeling. Uh
1:38:14
Speaker 1: when to me, it's when you know it's not to me,
1:38:17
Speaker 1: it's that whole romance to hunting, you know why we hunt. Um,
1:38:22
Speaker 1: I really really enjoy that part of it. You know,
1:38:25
Speaker 1: I don't want to say as much or more than
1:38:26
Speaker 1: the killing part, because at the end of the day,
1:38:28
Speaker 1: we're all hunters and you know, we want to hold
1:38:30
Speaker 1: those big as at the end of the day. But
1:38:32
Speaker 1: there's something about having dear you know, parade past, you know,
1:38:36
Speaker 1: knowing where they come from, why they were where they were,
1:38:39
Speaker 1: you know, how they got the fifteen yards and shop
1:38:41
Speaker 1: and that on by you and had no you know,
1:38:44
Speaker 1: clue in their mind that you were there hunting down
1:38:46
Speaker 1: because everything was right, uh, and you specifically manipulated it
1:38:50
Speaker 1: to be that way. There's really something to be said
1:38:52
Speaker 1: to that that I think, really, uh, you know it
1:38:58
Speaker 1: really a lot of people are missing out on it's
1:39:00
Speaker 1: too much about the I just gotta get killed. But
1:39:02
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter why how we're aware and yeah, you
1:39:05
Speaker 1: toil the bucket. It feels good for a while, but
1:39:06
Speaker 1: whenever you really start piecing together of that whole, you know,
1:39:09
Speaker 1: that learning experience or the apprenticeship program if you will,
1:39:12
Speaker 1: and you become a journeyman, and it's it's a really
1:39:15
Speaker 1: cool feeling. And I guess it's a sense of satisfaction
1:39:18
Speaker 1: even like anything you know, you put your your work into.
1:39:20
Speaker 1: You feel better about the type of deal. But I
1:39:22
Speaker 1: really enjoy that. Oh yeah, that that the chess match,
1:39:26
Speaker 1: all of the work that goes into that. That makes
1:39:29
Speaker 1: you know, every time you see the antlers on the wall,
1:39:31
Speaker 1: or every time you take a bite out of that
1:39:33
Speaker 1: animal when you have a meal, It all makes all
1:39:37
Speaker 1: those things so much, so much sweeter when you know
1:39:40
Speaker 1: just the level of understanding that was required to get
1:39:42
Speaker 1: to that point, the level of work that was required
1:39:44
Speaker 1: to get to that point, the level of frustration and
1:39:47
Speaker 1: failure probably leading up to those successes. Uh man, it
1:39:50
Speaker 1: makes it all a whole lot more meaningful when you
1:39:54
Speaker 1: have to go through that to get to your end goal. Yeah,
1:39:57
Speaker 1: and it's it's such a hard thing to explain, you know.
1:39:59
Speaker 1: It's of the non hunters or people that may just
1:40:02
Speaker 1: be hunt a little bit. You know, I didn't understand,
1:40:05
Speaker 1: you know, but it's like anything else and you start,
1:40:07
Speaker 1: you know, pouring your heart into it. Um you know. There,
1:40:09
Speaker 1: it's definitely and there's nothing wrong with you know, being
1:40:13
Speaker 1: outdoors and enjoying all that. You learn a lot of
1:40:15
Speaker 1: a good Linth lessons out there the time to do.
1:40:18
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just really cool, it is. It is
1:40:21
Speaker 1: so so speaking of this kind of process though, like
1:40:24
Speaker 1: getting to the point where we're like you and I
1:40:26
Speaker 1: are at maybe where we really want that difficult challenge
1:40:29
Speaker 1: um and and figuring out all the details. But also
1:40:33
Speaker 1: there are some people at the beginning of that journey.
1:40:35
Speaker 1: We're just trying to find any dear um. It would
1:40:38
Speaker 1: be an incredible challenge to surmount. Now I'm about to
1:40:41
Speaker 1: shift topics here, but before I do that, I want
1:40:44
Speaker 1: to take one last break today and think our partners
1:40:48
Speaker 1: at White Tail Properties. And speaking of new hunters, white
1:40:52
Speaker 1: Tail Properties puts out a series of YouTube videos they
1:40:55
Speaker 1: call their land Beat video series. I've been mentioning it
1:40:58
Speaker 1: every other week here they've got a new video out
1:41:01
Speaker 1: that I think new hunters especially or really anyone interested
1:41:04
Speaker 1: in becoming better deer hunter it might be of interest
1:41:06
Speaker 1: to you. This one dives into trail camera tactics, which
1:41:10
Speaker 1: trail cameras are one of those most incredible and useful
1:41:12
Speaker 1: tools for a deer hunter. You can learn so much
1:41:15
Speaker 1: about dear behavior, about what specific deer doing, or just
1:41:18
Speaker 1: how deer use a property, whether that be a mature
1:41:20
Speaker 1: buck or doze or young deer. Whatever it is that
1:41:23
Speaker 1: you want to target. Cameras can help you do that.
1:41:25
Speaker 1: So this quick video cover some of the basics, including
1:41:28
Speaker 1: when to hang them, where to hang them, and a
1:41:31
Speaker 1: bunch of things along those lines. Very simply. If you
1:41:33
Speaker 1: go to the white Tail Properties YouTube channel, you will
1:41:36
Speaker 1: see it's the most recent land beat video. It's called
1:41:39
Speaker 1: Trail Camera Tactics. Check it out, and if you'd like
1:41:41
Speaker 1: to learn more about white Tail Properties and the properties
1:41:44
Speaker 1: they have for sale, you can visit white Tail Properties
1:41:47
Speaker 1: dot com. Um talking about new hunters, I know, and
1:41:50
Speaker 1: I'm kind of shifting here to a totally different topic,
1:41:53
Speaker 1: but I do know that both you and further with
1:41:55
Speaker 1: what you guys are doing with the q d m
1:41:57
Speaker 1: A are really focusing on hunter recruitment, trying to help
1:42:01
Speaker 1: bring new people into the fold. And before we go
1:42:04
Speaker 1: too much longer with the podcast, I want to make
1:42:06
Speaker 1: sure we get to touch on that a little bit.
1:42:08
Speaker 1: Is that something you can can talk about a little
1:42:10
Speaker 1: bit what you guys are up to. Yeah, poor, you know,
1:42:16
Speaker 1: like I said in the beginning of the podcast, and
1:42:18
Speaker 1: really fortunately towards in the industry, you know, revolving around
1:42:21
Speaker 1: the white tail deer, because that's just basically have been
1:42:24
Speaker 1: my life. Um, and you know, we're at a point
1:42:27
Speaker 1: right now with the k D m A and and
1:42:29
Speaker 1: you know a lot of the other nonprofit uh conservation
1:42:32
Speaker 1: organizations out there. I mean, we're specifically focused on white
1:42:35
Speaker 1: tail deer, but um as they're the number one song
1:42:38
Speaker 1: after big game animal in the country, you know, and
1:42:42
Speaker 1: you start looking at the business behind that, if you will,
1:42:45
Speaker 1: you know there's a whole business side of that, and
1:42:47
Speaker 1: how much money the white tails white tail deer generates
1:42:50
Speaker 1: and how conservations funded through which I know you're aware
1:42:53
Speaker 1: of the Pittman Robinson acted such um. You know, the
1:42:57
Speaker 1: hunter recruitment rate is in a decline and in the
1:43:00
Speaker 1: last you know, ten years, we've lost about thirty percent
1:43:02
Speaker 1: of the license buyers. And you know that starts to
1:43:05
Speaker 1: equate two dollars and cents and then obviously a snowball effect,
1:43:09
Speaker 1: um you know when state agencies have to make cutbacks
1:43:12
Speaker 1: and and you know, so forth me was the big
1:43:15
Speaker 1: public lane moving out there, and licensees you know, driving
1:43:18
Speaker 1: force behind that as well. So you know, a lot
1:43:22
Speaker 1: of the nonprofit conservation organizations are doing everything they can
1:43:26
Speaker 1: to you know, try to you know, turn around the
1:43:30
Speaker 1: hunter recruminate at least slow the decline down. Um Like
1:43:33
Speaker 1: I said, we've lost thirty in the last ten years. Um,
1:43:37
Speaker 1: you know that's that's alarming in and in and of itself.
1:43:39
Speaker 1: Uh to think that as passionate as I am about
1:43:43
Speaker 1: you know, white tailed deer hunting, you're hunting in general. Um,
1:43:46
Speaker 1: It's all I've ever done in my life has been
1:43:48
Speaker 1: a hunter. Uh. It's literally all I've ever and I
1:43:51
Speaker 1: couldn't imagine, you know, I don't know what I would do,
1:43:53
Speaker 1: you know, if I didn't have hunting in my life,
1:43:55
Speaker 1: and I mean that last I don't what would I
1:43:57
Speaker 1: do in November. I don't know, you know, Like, um,
1:44:00
Speaker 1: so to think that this could potentially go away. I
1:44:03
Speaker 1: mean again, there's a lot of statistics out there, and
1:44:07
Speaker 1: we're not trying to you know, being the sky's falling type,
1:44:10
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, you know, we've
1:44:12
Speaker 1: lost you know, a good amount of hunters in the
1:44:15
Speaker 1: last ten years. Uh. The average age of the license
1:44:18
Speaker 1: Byron right now somewhere around fifty six years old, and
1:44:21
Speaker 1: in all recents says there's a hard stop at seventy.
1:44:24
Speaker 1: So you know, there, technically speaking or arguably speaking, there's
1:44:29
Speaker 1: a shelf life to hunting as we know it did
1:44:31
Speaker 1: not do whatever, go away. But in the next you know,
1:44:33
Speaker 1: twelve or fifteen years, you could see a drastic cut
1:44:36
Speaker 1: um in funding for you know, this resource that we
1:44:40
Speaker 1: loved to chase around and chairs hope the deal. So
1:44:44
Speaker 1: you know, we're going We've really shifted our focus the
1:44:47
Speaker 1: first you know, we're we're in our thirtieth year. The
1:44:49
Speaker 1: first fifteen or twenty years we were very big in
1:44:52
Speaker 1: the habitat and herd management and overall you know, the
1:44:55
Speaker 1: wait till dear, you know, health of the herd type
1:44:58
Speaker 1: of deal and in the habitat um and now it's
1:45:01
Speaker 1: you know, the deer or gonna be okay, we gotta
1:45:04
Speaker 1: have people there to hunt them type of deals. So
1:45:06
Speaker 1: we're really uh focused on the youth. We have a
1:45:10
Speaker 1: big youth involvement there. Probably more so are the first
1:45:13
Speaker 1: time adult onset hunters. I think you mentioned that you
1:45:16
Speaker 1: talked you called Josh that earlier in the podcast. But
1:45:20
Speaker 1: you know, we find through research that taking a kid
1:45:23
Speaker 1: hunting is great, and we always have to continue to
1:45:25
Speaker 1: do that. The problem is, or the catching is if
1:45:27
Speaker 1: you take you know, a young person hunting today and
1:45:31
Speaker 1: they want to that tomorrow and you're not available, then
1:45:33
Speaker 1: what do they do. You know, they're they're stuck sitting
1:45:35
Speaker 1: the bench. Uh. They don't have a job, so they
1:45:37
Speaker 1: can't go out and buy stuff. They can't draw themselves
1:45:39
Speaker 1: to the owning property or you know, to a state man,
1:45:41
Speaker 1: whatever they'd be. So you know, we've shifted focusing. We
1:45:45
Speaker 1: among other Conservational visitors, have shifted focus over to the
1:45:50
Speaker 1: adult onsets the first time mid thirty mid forty something
1:45:54
Speaker 1: that have always had the desire but maybe nobody's ever
1:45:56
Speaker 1: taught them and asked them to go. Uh And just
1:45:59
Speaker 1: as we were talking been earlier. You know, if you
1:46:02
Speaker 1: have the desire thirty five thirty eight years old, sitting
1:46:05
Speaker 1: in a cubicle somewhere, you know, have always been interested
1:46:07
Speaker 1: in hunting, but just never had anybody really wanted to
1:46:10
Speaker 1: to take in. It's intimidating to try to do yourself,
1:46:13
Speaker 1: and it's even more so intimiding, you know to uh
1:46:16
Speaker 1: maybe ask one of your buddies, you know, in forty
1:46:18
Speaker 1: years on, Hey do you gonna teach me out of hunt?
1:46:20
Speaker 1: You know, like this watch your thing to do type
1:46:22
Speaker 1: of deal. So, uh, you know, we're putting some programs
1:46:26
Speaker 1: out there. We have are sharing your hunt program um
1:46:29
Speaker 1: where filled the fort program or we're trying to get
1:46:32
Speaker 1: more people involved in hunting. I'm actually leaving from one
1:46:35
Speaker 1: in the morning. Uh. It's in north central Pennsylvania. We
1:46:38
Speaker 1: have six first time adult hunters coming into camp. Um,
1:46:43
Speaker 1: we're gonna hunt Friday and Saturday to sets a day,
1:46:46
Speaker 1: morning and evening. Um. We brought them in back in
1:46:48
Speaker 1: August and went through a training day with prospers. I mean,
1:46:52
Speaker 1: we teach them dear biology, we do some habitat management,
1:46:55
Speaker 1: you know, everything there needs to know about it. Deal ever,
1:46:57
Speaker 1: teach them how to shoot, and we're gonna take them
1:46:59
Speaker 1: hunt to teach them how to porcher deer. And the
1:47:02
Speaker 1: idea is they want to be hunters, you know, they
1:47:05
Speaker 1: want to source through room protein and sustainability, and we
1:47:08
Speaker 1: want to hopefully give them enough knowledge to do that,
1:47:12
Speaker 1: you know, within a few meetings with us. So it
1:47:14
Speaker 1: is definitely a process, but it's definitely something we're extremely
1:47:18
Speaker 1: focused on right now as an organization. And I think
1:47:21
Speaker 1: that's I think that's awesome. Um. Now, further, you you
1:47:26
Speaker 1: have gotten to be involved in this a little bit
1:47:29
Speaker 1: already yourself, haven't you. How's that been? Yeah? Um, last
1:47:33
Speaker 1: weekend actually I was involved in one UM that was
1:47:36
Speaker 1: called Learned to Hunt UM, and this one was specifically
1:47:40
Speaker 1: about deer UM. It's UH. It was kind of a
1:47:43
Speaker 1: joint effort between uh Q d M, a National Wild
1:47:46
Speaker 1: Turkey Federation UM, the Michigan DNR Pheasants Forever has a
1:47:52
Speaker 1: role in it UM and they do these for different species.
1:47:55
Speaker 1: They have them small game Turkey Pheasant UM. Basically, what
1:47:58
Speaker 1: it is is we've got UM. We've this This program
1:48:02
Speaker 1: has received grants from the Cabella's Outdoor Fund where they've
1:48:05
Speaker 1: been able to go out and purchase crossbows and camo
1:48:09
Speaker 1: and ground blinds UM through that grant, and then also
1:48:12
Speaker 1: different branches UH and chapters will will donate money UM
1:48:17
Speaker 1: for these types of programs. So what we did is
1:48:20
Speaker 1: UH I kind of gave like a deer Hunting one
1:48:22
Speaker 1: oh one UM presentation on a Saturday morning. We spent
1:48:27
Speaker 1: some time at the range with crossbows and then we
1:48:32
Speaker 1: had there's four people there were supposed to have eight,
1:48:34
Speaker 1: but we had a just torrential downpours that day. I
1:48:37
Speaker 1: think scared some people away, but we end up having
1:48:39
Speaker 1: four people come and UM we were able to go
1:48:42
Speaker 1: out with mentors. Then those new hunters were able to
1:48:44
Speaker 1: go out with mentors in the afternoon on Saturday and
1:48:47
Speaker 1: then Sunday morning. We unfortunately didn't uh harvesting deer that weekend,
1:48:54
Speaker 1: but but they got a processing demonstration and a butchering
1:48:57
Speaker 1: demonstration and um you know, I think every one of
1:49:00
Speaker 1: those people left and said, yeah, we want to do
1:49:03
Speaker 1: this again. One gal that came had already purchased a crossbow.
1:49:07
Speaker 1: Um So, I mean, these are the people that are
1:49:09
Speaker 1: going to go out and start contributing funds to Pittman
1:49:12
Speaker 1: Robertson dollars and they can go out and replicate these
1:49:15
Speaker 1: types of you know, they can go they can go
1:49:17
Speaker 1: hunt on their own whereout where a youth that's gonna
1:49:20
Speaker 1: need a a family member or a friend or somebody
1:49:23
Speaker 1: to drive them to a spot where these people can
1:49:26
Speaker 1: go out and do that themselves the next day if
1:49:28
Speaker 1: they wanted to. Um, so, yeah, I got to do that.
1:49:31
Speaker 1: One one of our branches up in northern Michigan are
1:49:34
Speaker 1: Tipping the Mid Branch. They're doing a field of fork
1:49:37
Speaker 1: program where they've got three hunter hunting with mentors throughout
1:49:40
Speaker 1: the season and one of those new hunters shot at
1:49:44
Speaker 1: buck the first week of the season already and just
1:49:47
Speaker 1: a ton of great success going on with that kind
1:49:49
Speaker 1: of stuff. That's really cool, and it's it's it's great
1:49:54
Speaker 1: to see you guys and the different branches out there,
1:49:59
Speaker 1: you know, stepping up and ownating their time and funds
1:50:02
Speaker 1: to make that happen. Because it's one thing to say it,
1:50:04
Speaker 1: it's a it's a lot more to actually go and
1:50:07
Speaker 1: actually do these things. So it was I think it's
1:50:09
Speaker 1: pretty awesome, Josh, seeing you going out on these mentor hunts.
1:50:13
Speaker 1: You went and you did the youth hunt, uh. A
1:50:15
Speaker 1: weekend or two before that, you did a veterans hunt, um,
1:50:19
Speaker 1: and I know you're leaving again next week to do
1:50:20
Speaker 1: another youth hunt helping out people. UM. So I just
1:50:23
Speaker 1: want to say that as a friend, I I commend
1:50:26
Speaker 1: you and everyone else out there who is donating their
1:50:28
Speaker 1: time in this kind of way like huge props. I'm
1:50:31
Speaker 1: so glad that people are doing that. I need to
1:50:33
Speaker 1: do a better job of doing more of that. UM.
1:50:35
Speaker 1: I was hoping to be a meet up with you
1:50:37
Speaker 1: guys for that that first time Hunter event last weekend
1:50:40
Speaker 1: didn't work out. But I need to do a better
1:50:43
Speaker 1: job of that, and I hope that people listening. Hope
1:50:45
Speaker 1: there's a few people listening that maybe are are intrigued
1:50:49
Speaker 1: by the opportunity to help mentor some new hunters too.
1:50:52
Speaker 1: And if that's the case, Ryan, Um, how can a
1:50:56
Speaker 1: hunter listening get involved and and be able to get
1:51:00
Speaker 1: involved the programs you guys have out there to become
1:51:02
Speaker 1: a mentor or or helper with some of these things
1:51:04
Speaker 1: you guys are doing well. I mean there's a couple
1:51:07
Speaker 1: of different ways, and I'm glad you ask um each
1:51:11
Speaker 1: almost every state now and on every state, if they
1:51:13
Speaker 1: don't have a designated our three coordinators that's retain, react, activate,
1:51:18
Speaker 1: and recruit new hunters, Um, states are you know, state
1:51:22
Speaker 1: agencies are putting in an R three coordinator if they
1:51:24
Speaker 1: don't have an acting one, uh you know specifically hiring
1:51:27
Speaker 1: for that position they have they usually have somebody within
1:51:30
Speaker 1: the state that's covering that so that the force thing
1:51:32
Speaker 1: they can do if they don't want to be involved
1:51:34
Speaker 1: with a K d M, A branch or if maybe
1:51:36
Speaker 1: there's not one close to them, Um, you know, they
1:51:39
Speaker 1: can go through the state through there are three coordinator.
1:51:42
Speaker 1: They can definitely put you in touch with a hunter
1:51:44
Speaker 1: or a group of people or you know, the next
1:51:46
Speaker 1: event they have coming up, UM, or they can easily
1:51:49
Speaker 1: seek out a KDUM a branch. I mean we're not
1:51:52
Speaker 1: in everyone's back here, but you know usually there's one
1:51:55
Speaker 1: anywhere within the way, tells range, within driving distance. UM,
1:51:59
Speaker 1: reach out to them and and tell them that you'd
1:52:01
Speaker 1: like to be involved, or can be a simple with
1:52:03
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to be involved with a group,
1:52:05
Speaker 1: and you don't have to be involved with the state
1:52:06
Speaker 1: at R three coordinator. You can just if you're a hunter,
1:52:09
Speaker 1: you know you can do your part by seeking somebody
1:52:12
Speaker 1: out and your work with or data heads with, or
1:52:15
Speaker 1: teaches your white school wherever it may be that one's
1:52:18
Speaker 1: learned how to be a hunter, take them hunting with you,
1:52:20
Speaker 1: teach them how to be a hunter. Um. You know,
1:52:22
Speaker 1: if just think about it, you know there's somewhere around
1:52:25
Speaker 1: you know, ten of eleven million deer hunters in the
1:52:26
Speaker 1: country right now, it's de counting who's doing accounting. But uh,
1:52:30
Speaker 1: if half of them took one person hunting next year,
1:52:32
Speaker 1: you know we can fix the problem in one year
1:52:35
Speaker 1: type of deal. So it could be something this is
1:52:37
Speaker 1: that simple. Seek out somebody that's never hunted before but
1:52:40
Speaker 1: has the interested. You know they run in your circles
1:52:42
Speaker 1: and take the time to take them to teach them
1:52:44
Speaker 1: to be a hunter. And I know it sounds like
1:52:47
Speaker 1: a lot, and even with me and I have a
1:52:51
Speaker 1: lease in Ohio, and but honestly, I've done this now
1:52:54
Speaker 1: for a couple of years. We've had kind of an
1:52:57
Speaker 1: internal ken m a challenge amongst our staff that you know,
1:53:00
Speaker 1: we're gonna seek out new hunters every year, you know,
1:53:02
Speaker 1: and and take at least one per uh. And we've
1:53:05
Speaker 1: done that and it is a very satisfying and gratifying
1:53:09
Speaker 1: thing to do. Um. You know it's not you don't
1:53:14
Speaker 1: mind doing it once. Once you get involved in seed,
1:53:17
Speaker 1: the level of enthusiasm that these people display, um, the
1:53:21
Speaker 1: appreciation they have for you taking the time out and
1:53:24
Speaker 1: and honestly, you develop some of the best friendships you
1:53:27
Speaker 1: may ever have in your life for hunting. And this
1:53:29
Speaker 1: is a perfect example of that. So you know, don't
1:53:32
Speaker 1: don't be you know, can be dated by it. Do
1:53:34
Speaker 1: think it's too much or you know, you don't have
1:53:36
Speaker 1: so much time The sport is depending on it. We
1:53:39
Speaker 1: need people out there to teach others how to become hunters.
1:53:42
Speaker 1: And you know, think of think of it as almost
1:53:45
Speaker 1: a sense of as your responsibility. Uh, just one a year.
1:53:49
Speaker 1: You know. Introducement doesn't have to be deer hunting either.
1:53:52
Speaker 1: That's another thing. Um, you know, there's nothing wrong with
1:53:55
Speaker 1: teaching somebody how to be a small game or take
1:53:57
Speaker 1: them squirrel hunting, take them rabbit right, take them feather hunt. Um,
1:54:00
Speaker 1: you know, just get them old than the outdoors and
1:54:03
Speaker 1: let them progress naturally. You know that that's that's how
1:54:07
Speaker 1: we're going to fix this for sure. Yeah. Now on
1:54:10
Speaker 1: the flip side, what if what if someone listening is
1:54:13
Speaker 1: a new hunter and maybe they want to hunt, so
1:54:17
Speaker 1: they've been listening to hunting podcasts they stumble across Wired
1:54:21
Speaker 1: to Hunt. Somehow they managed to listen to the very
1:54:23
Speaker 1: advanced stuff we talked about without getting discouraged and studying
1:54:26
Speaker 1: this thing off. What if there's a new aspiring hunter
1:54:30
Speaker 1: and they're hearing about these programs and they're thinking in
1:54:32
Speaker 1: their heads, WHOA, that would be amazing. I could really
1:54:35
Speaker 1: use a weekend mentor program. That would be such a
1:54:37
Speaker 1: great start for me. How can they get tapped in
1:54:40
Speaker 1: and signed up for a program like this? Where do
1:54:41
Speaker 1: they find that information? The same type of thing our website? Um,
1:54:46
Speaker 1: you know, we went from last year I think Josh
1:54:48
Speaker 1: we get I think two or three nationwide, and we're
1:54:51
Speaker 1: gonna do eighty or twenty this year. Uh and obviously
1:54:55
Speaker 1: we hope to build on for that next year. So
1:54:57
Speaker 1: our website we have a long are field defork programs listed.
1:55:01
Speaker 1: You get involved that way and then again, you know,
1:55:03
Speaker 1: through your state agencies and the other three coordinator I
1:55:05
Speaker 1: mean one song called to the state agency, especially with
1:55:08
Speaker 1: a specific R three coordinator. Uh, you know that's their job.
1:55:12
Speaker 1: If you're don't hunt a hunt, they're gonna they're gonna
1:55:15
Speaker 1: place you within the right people. Uh for sure. Awesome.
1:55:20
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I'll add one more thing to that too,
1:55:23
Speaker 1: is um, there's a lot of different resources out there,
1:55:26
Speaker 1: Like I know, just recently, a lot of us qd
1:55:29
Speaker 1: m A staff just became digital mentors UM on a
1:55:33
Speaker 1: platform called powder hook Mark. I'm not sure if you're
1:55:35
Speaker 1: familiar with that or not, but um, that's a great
1:55:38
Speaker 1: place for people to check out too and maybe be
1:55:40
Speaker 1: able to connect with a mentor through something like that
1:55:45
Speaker 1: where you can find people are willing to take you out. Um.
1:55:48
Speaker 1: And maybe you don't even need something to take you out,
1:55:50
Speaker 1: but you have questions for them. Um, you know, so
1:55:52
Speaker 1: many different ways to connect with with people and this
1:55:55
Speaker 1: day and age, and um, I mean that's do a
1:55:58
Speaker 1: Google search, you can you can sign people, I'm sure,
1:56:01
Speaker 1: get on Facebook. There's groups or you know, like I said,
1:56:03
Speaker 1: there's digital mentors on this powder hook Um network that
1:56:07
Speaker 1: you can check out. Um So, all kinds of different
1:56:10
Speaker 1: opportunities to get connected with people. Social media has gonna
1:56:13
Speaker 1: not to interrupted social media. Um. You know Instagram is
1:56:17
Speaker 1: there's a local board, movent. You know, there's a group
1:56:20
Speaker 1: of people that wants to ares their own protein and
1:56:21
Speaker 1: hunter and being a hundred you know, one of the
1:56:23
Speaker 1: best ways to do that. Um. So you know, just
1:56:26
Speaker 1: about any avenue of communication you can think of. You know,
1:56:29
Speaker 1: you can get a home to somebody and and hopefully
1:56:31
Speaker 1: for the most part you're going to find a willing
1:56:33
Speaker 1: mentor out there is going to help be helpful to you. Yeah, Josh,
1:56:37
Speaker 1: can you elaborate on what the digital mentor thing is
1:56:40
Speaker 1: with powder hook Um. What is the service that you'll
1:56:44
Speaker 1: be providing the folks by way of that. So if
1:56:46
Speaker 1: someone's here in this and they're thinking, oh I could
1:56:47
Speaker 1: use a digital network, what does that mean? Well, you know,
1:56:50
Speaker 1: I'm not sure because we just signed I just signed
1:56:54
Speaker 1: up for it last week. But UM, what I did
1:56:56
Speaker 1: is I basically went on there and put some information
1:56:59
Speaker 1: about myself, UM, how long I've been hunting, what species
1:57:02
Speaker 1: I have been hunting, UM, how far I'm willing to
1:57:05
Speaker 1: travel to to mentor a new hunter. UM. And so
1:57:09
Speaker 1: people can can look they pull up a map or
1:57:12
Speaker 1: put in your zip code and they can find where
1:57:15
Speaker 1: these different mentors are that they can try to connect
1:57:18
Speaker 1: with UM if they're looking for someone to take them
1:57:21
Speaker 1: out hunting UM or kind of asking questions. So just
1:57:24
Speaker 1: kind of a cool networking tool for for new hunters
1:57:28
Speaker 1: UM to to get involved with people that are in
1:57:30
Speaker 1: their area they just maybe don't know about them. Very cool, awesome,
1:57:34
Speaker 1: And that's the powder Hook app. That sounds like a
1:57:36
Speaker 1: great way to UH to get connected with further and
1:57:40
Speaker 1: get further take you out to his favorite tree stands?
1:57:45
Speaker 1: All right, can I can I touch on one more thing?
1:57:47
Speaker 1: Let me tell some more UM. And this goes back
1:57:50
Speaker 1: to what Ryan was saying about just you know, we
1:57:53
Speaker 1: need to do a better job as hunters taking taking
1:57:55
Speaker 1: other people out. And you know, one of the people,
1:57:58
Speaker 1: one of the one of the end Vigils that's going
1:58:00
Speaker 1: through our Field of Fork program up with the tip
1:58:03
Speaker 1: of the mid branch. Um. He has worked for a
1:58:06
Speaker 1: company that is very involved in UM outdoor clothing and
1:58:12
Speaker 1: work UM work where UM and I know that he
1:58:17
Speaker 1: works every day with other hunters and he is interacting
1:58:19
Speaker 1: with other hunters on a daily basis, and he's just
1:58:22
Speaker 1: never had anybody say, hey, why don't you come out
1:58:25
Speaker 1: with me? Um. You know, we just did another field
1:58:28
Speaker 1: of Fork I think this one was a New York
1:58:30
Speaker 1: Ryan where Hank New Hampster are New Hampshire, Okay, So
1:58:35
Speaker 1: there was a gun manufacturer that had people reach out
1:58:37
Speaker 1: to us that they wanted to learn how to hunt.
1:58:40
Speaker 1: And you you know there's people there that hunt, right,
1:58:42
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no reason why we can't do a
1:58:45
Speaker 1: better jobs as hunters saying hey, you know, identify these
1:58:49
Speaker 1: people that have shown an interest in it and then
1:58:51
Speaker 1: reach out and offer that lending hand to get him
1:58:54
Speaker 1: out in the woods and um, you know, be a
1:58:56
Speaker 1: mentor to him. We just got to do a better job.
1:59:00
Speaker 1: Very very true. Well, I certainly appreciate what you guys
1:59:03
Speaker 1: are doing, so thank you Ryan, and further and followed
1:59:07
Speaker 1: your management association for for stepping up and leading in
1:59:10
Speaker 1: this way. Um I I hunt a percent agree it's necessary,
1:59:15
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, we need to wrap it
1:59:16
Speaker 1: up here, but I want to give you a chance
1:59:18
Speaker 1: for Ryan, if there's any last plug you want to make,
1:59:22
Speaker 1: or any last topic we haven't touched on that you
1:59:24
Speaker 1: really want to make sure you can mention if you've
1:59:27
Speaker 1: got any final parting words, what would you like to
1:59:30
Speaker 1: just share? But I think anything is They know we
1:59:34
Speaker 1: definitely dove into advance level and I don't. The last
1:59:37
Speaker 1: thing I want to do is is intimidate or scare
1:59:40
Speaker 1: something away from hunting. I think it's important to get
1:59:43
Speaker 1: out there and do whatever you want to do and
1:59:45
Speaker 1: enjoy it and uh, you know, just cherished the moment
1:59:48
Speaker 1: type of deal and it doesn't have to be that
1:59:51
Speaker 1: to you know, it's a lot of fun if it is.
1:59:53
Speaker 1: It's also a lot of fun if you're not taking
1:59:55
Speaker 1: it that serious. So the main thing I want to
1:59:57
Speaker 1: leave people with is, you know, don't be intimidated and
2:00:01
Speaker 1: if you're doing anything, it's better enough and get out
2:00:03
Speaker 1: there and enjoy the great outdoors and being a deer hunter.
2:00:06
Speaker 1: For sure absolutely agree with that, and I will say,
2:00:11
Speaker 1: and I'll probably mention this at the beginning of the episode,
2:00:14
Speaker 1: so this is the second time you'll probably have heard this.
2:00:16
Speaker 1: But if you are new, make sure can go back
2:00:18
Speaker 1: and listen to that Deer Hunting one on one podcast.
2:00:21
Speaker 1: We did great kind of starting point that will help
2:00:24
Speaker 1: put some of these basic pieces in place, so that
2:00:26
Speaker 1: when you go back and listen to a lot of
2:00:27
Speaker 1: these other podcasts that we've done that go more advanced,
2:00:31
Speaker 1: you have that foundation and do not. Just like you said, Ryan,
2:00:34
Speaker 1: don't feel bad if some of these things are a
2:00:36
Speaker 1: little bit complicated, because it took all of us, all
2:00:39
Speaker 1: three of us here talking, you know, years and years
2:00:42
Speaker 1: and years and decades of experience in trial and air
2:00:45
Speaker 1: and start figuring some of these things out and making
2:00:47
Speaker 1: sensitive all on our heads. So um, it's perfectly fine
2:00:50
Speaker 1: to to go through that process yourself. UM. And one
2:00:54
Speaker 1: and more, one more thing mark for for new hunters
2:00:56
Speaker 1: is q d m A has got a free e
2:00:58
Speaker 1: book that people can go down mode and that's a
2:01:00
Speaker 1: great resource for new hunters, and um, even people that
2:01:04
Speaker 1: are experienced has some great info in there. It's a
2:01:06
Speaker 1: free download from our website. So I just go to
2:01:09
Speaker 1: QUTM dot com and what should I search for or
2:01:11
Speaker 1: is where do I find it? You know, put an
2:01:13
Speaker 1: e book or I think it's QTMA dot com Ford
2:01:15
Speaker 1: Slash e book. I think is a direct um linked
2:01:18
Speaker 1: to it. It's deer hunting one on one perfect. Well,
2:01:23
Speaker 1: that's that's an awesome tool as well. So further, Ryan, big,
2:01:28
Speaker 1: thank you, I appreciate it's been a lot of fun. Ryan.
2:01:30
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed you kind of divulging the the in
2:01:34
Speaker 1: depth wind and thermal knowledge that that I think for
2:01:38
Speaker 1: those guys who are trying to take things to the
2:01:40
Speaker 1: next level, for guys and girls want to take to
2:01:41
Speaker 1: the next level, I think this stuff is really an
2:01:44
Speaker 1: important focus area. So I found it fascinating. Thank you
2:01:48
Speaker 1: for sharing that. Absolutely go further and with that, let's
2:01:55
Speaker 1: wrap this one up. Okay, and that's to wrap, folks,
2:02:00
Speaker 1: So thank you for listening. I hope you will check
2:02:04
Speaker 1: out those mentorship programs and get involved like further mentioned
2:02:07
Speaker 1: um and other than that, I suppose I'll just give
2:02:11
Speaker 1: you all another reminder that my new wire hunt content
2:02:13
Speaker 1: will be featured and shown now on the meat eater
2:02:16
Speaker 1: dot com. It's a new website for meat Eater, Inc.
2:02:20
Speaker 1: Which is the new company and a part of Now
2:02:22
Speaker 1: with Steve Ronella and a handful of other folks. Lots
2:02:24
Speaker 1: of cool new content. They're not just my stuff, but
2:02:27
Speaker 1: Now stuff from Steve, stuff from Ben O'Brien and Hunting Collective,
2:02:30
Speaker 1: stuff from April Okey and Anchored uh at war A
2:02:33
Speaker 1: Garcia and all sorts of other people will be showing
2:02:37
Speaker 1: up there soon. Check it on out brows around, lots
2:02:40
Speaker 1: of interesting stuff. With that all said, I hope you're
2:02:44
Speaker 1: gonna be in the tree here soon. I hope you
2:02:46
Speaker 1: have an amazing hunt and hunt's coming up. Hope the
2:02:49
Speaker 1: wind is in your face. I hope that big bucks
2:02:52
Speaker 1: will be running into the bottom of your tree stand,
2:02:54
Speaker 1: and I hope you shoot straight. So until next time,
2:02:57
Speaker 1: good luck out there. Thank you so much for following
2:03:00
Speaker 1: along and being a part of the Wired Hunt community,
2:03:02
Speaker 1: and stay Wired to Hunt. M