Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / Leadership, validating your product in 3 steps & creating with integrity, with Kinfield’s Founder Nichole Powell

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Leadership, validating your product in 3 steps & creating with integrity, with Kinfield’s Founder Nichole Powell · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Nicole Powell for Female Startup Club.
• 0:12
  Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. I'm your host, Doon Roisin, and joining me on the show today is CEO and founder of a company called Kinfield, Nicole Powell. Launched in 2019, Kinfield makes great essentials for the great outdoors. Effective plant-powered skincare and body products made from ingredients that are safe for both the planet and people.
• 0:37
  They believe in a happier, healthier tomorrow through more time spent in the great outdoors and actually creating products that you need to make most of your time in nature, whether you're in the backcountry or your own backyard.
• 0:50
  Today we're talking about what makes a sustainable company and how they tackle things like packaging when trying to do better for the planet, Nicole's three-step process to validating her idea, and the lessons she's learned along the way being a venture-backed female entrepreneur. This is Nicole for Female Startup Club.
• 1:08
  Nicole, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here. Me too. I'm so excited. I always love to start by getting my guest to introduce themselves and a little bit about what your brand is, who it's for, what it is. Yes. All the good stuff. All the good stuff.
• 1:29
  So, so hi everyone. My name is Nicole Powell and I am the founder and CEO of Kinfield and Kinfield. We make great essentials for the great outdoors. So we make something, you know, put simply, we make clean products that are personal care and skincare.
• 1:44
  and really designed to make it easy and accessible for everyone to get outside and make the most of the great outdoors. And I should also say that they all look so beautiful, your branding and your website and your social media. There's such a vibe going on there.
• 2:00
  Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I remember actually when we were designing our packaging and I, you know, we were working with this amazing agency and we were, they had pulled, you know, the first thing that you usually do when you're, when you're thinking about your brand and how you want it to show up is you pull all of the other brands that are sort of similar on the market. And I just, I remember looking at them and saying, no clip art of mosquitoes. I don't want...
• 2:28
  I was like, please, like we can make a repellent that doesn't have a mosquito on it. But thank you. We really put a lot of love into the packaging and into thinking about how the visual identity would show up. And so thank you for that. I totally feel it. I totally feel it.
• 2:48
  Okay. I want to go back to life before Kinfield. What were you doing? What kind of got you interested in the outdoor space? Why these kinds of products? What was life like before? Yeah. So why these products actually is kind of, I'll take you all the way back. So I grew up in Minnesota, which is, you know, I think a very outdoorsy state and my family was super outdoorsy. So I grew up...
• 3:15
  mountain bike racing and backpacking and camping and playing in our backyard. And that was really, you know, kind of all I knew. And I, at the time, you know, growing up, I didn't know what entrepreneurship was. That wasn't something that I had access to. You know, I think my, you know, my parents have very traditional careers. And so when I was thinking about like a five-year plan, all I really knew is that I wanted to go explore and be elsewhere.
• 3:45
  I want to go to New York. I want to go to California. My parents, of course, were very supportive. They said, you can go wherever you want with your education. And so I certainly did. And after graduating school, I actually ended up going out to California and had looked at a bunch of different careers after graduation and
• 4:04
  ended up starting work with a rotational program with Intuit, which is a large tech company based out of San Francisco. And while I fairly quickly realized that the work that I was doing there was not necessarily what was getting me out of bed in the morning, it did have a really critical step in the journey, which was introduce me to startup culture within the Bay Area. There's a really, really healthy environment
• 4:30
  ecosystem there around startups and entrepreneurship and
• 4:35
  you know, you really can only create what you can imagine. And it wasn't until there that my eyes were really open to this idea of, oh, you can, you know, you can have an idea and do more than just kind of like wax poetic about it with your friends. You can do something about it. So I ended up leaving Intuit. I took about six months out to travel. I was doing copywriting and content creation for brands while I was traveling. And then when I got back to the Bay Area,
• 5:03
  At that point, I knew I understood about myself by that point that I really love to create. I really love to be in that place where someone's like, we have a problem. We have no idea how to solve it. Can you just figure out how to get started? And I loved that energy. And so I ended up wanting to then go join another startup because I had not the faintest idea how one started a startup. So I was like, well, I'll go to a startup and I'll learn from there. And then eventually I'll figure my own thing out.
• 5:32
  And thankfully, I ended up meeting the founders of Modern Citizen, which is a women's fashion e-commerce company. I very intentionally wanted to go to a female-led startup. I very intentionally wanted to go to a really early company. And they had just gotten started. And I ended up joining them as their first full-time hire. And that was really my trial by fire into the startup world.
• 5:55
  And I think it's really to their credit as leaders that I did, you know, worked with them for three years and still wanted to start my own company by the end of it, because you can certainly, it's not for everyone. You know, there's a lot of tasks switching and, you know, blue sky, which can be really energizing, but it can also be really overwhelming. And so I was working with Modern Citizen and having, you know, the time of my life getting to build that community and build that brand and company with them.
• 6:23
  And as ideas, I think, tend to do, they tend to find you. And I was getting ready to take a group of friends camping in Yosemite, packing for this trip, realized that all of my skincare, beauty, even home cleaning products had become these things.
• 6:39
  beautifully, you know, sustainably sourced, beautifully made, values-driven brands. And the outdoor products that I was bringing on my trip, the repellent, that dyed lime green, aloe gel, my, you know, sunblock, they were all the exact same brands that I remembered growing up with. And I was looking at these, I was unpacking them and going, why am I still using the same products that I remember from when I was eight years old? Like, surely there should
• 7:09
  And there wasn't. And, you know, really the options, I talked to a lot of friends and did about six months of research. But.
• 7:18
  the options that were on the market were either the kind of legacy incumbent brands or these sort of like homegrown, you know, often ineffective alternatives, which were made with the best of intentions, but weren't put through the same rigor that, you know, just in terms of like efficacy testing and the kind of regulatory controls that we've gone through now that really, I think, put a product into a market that you can trust. And so that was really kind of where it got started was, well, can we make, you know,
• 7:45
  better products and build a brand too around the way that most people get outdoors today, which is to say a little bit less of the kind of like machissimo, like you can trek to the top of Mount Everest with this product and really more so around, can we make you something that makes you excited to just get in your own backyard or that you could take with you on a day hike and really make kind of return the joy of the outdoors to the brands that are trying to get people outside?
• 8:16
  Yeah, totally. I'm wondering why people hadn't innovated in that space. Why? Was it because it was too hard or because it wasn't interesting? Or I'm trying to understand what was the reason there? Yeah, it's a good question. And one I've thought about a lot. I think it's a combination of, you know, it is hard.
• 8:40
  So for example, our repellent product, which is one of our kind of products that we're the best known for called golden hour. Golden hour, it took us a year and a half to formulate. It's made with a strain of citronella that I actually sourced personally in Indonesia. My first thing when I launched the company, and I will say this is hideously backwards and I know this now, but at the time I didn't know how to make a product. But what I did know was...
• 9:08
  was that better products started with better ingredients. And the only time that I had used a non-D repellent that had worked was when I was traveling in Indonesia. And so, you know, return to the scene of, I was like, great, how do I make that? And, you know, had gone back and did that work to source that, but it was a long process to be able to
• 9:31
  And it was kind of, you know, following those breadcrumbs of, okay, well, I've used a natural alternative that worked once. Let's go find that. Why did that one work? And it was, it was a lot of, a lot of breadcrumbs, you know, at one point in the, in the process, I,
• 9:47
  flew to Nebraska to go meet with a USDA researcher who was a fantastic help in my education in the repellent process and space and is still someone that, you know, I'm in touch with today and I deeply admire. But, you know, I think a lot of it is that you see brands and companies trying to innovate, but just not having the access that I had in terms of being able to go and find those
• 10:17
  better than, you know, their, their kind of like other counterparts. And I think a lot of larger legacy brands don't necessarily have the, like either maybe the resources or the, you know, desire to innovate. Why, why cannibalize your own space if it's working? Mm. Yeah, totally. Gosh, that's so interesting. And it must've been such an exciting adventure to be like, cool, I'm going to go out here and find some citronella. Like, where do I find this? Oh, my parents thought I had lost it.
• 10:48
  I remember, you know, I left Modern Citizen and quite literally the first thing that I did was fly to Indonesia. And I just remember calling my family and saying, OK, I quit my job and I'm going to go to Indonesia and I'm going to go surf and I'm going to go source the citronella. And we were just.
• 11:08
  floored, to their credit, very supportive. But they definitely were taking a leap of faith. And to be fair, I was taking a leap of faith with myself too. So yeah, but innovation has to come from taking risks and taking the leap. So yeah.
• 11:23
  Oh, totally. Just a side note. I moved to Bali last year for six months and I just had the best time of my life. It's so incredible. Indonesian people, Balinese people rather, it was just so beautiful. It's such a special place. Very cool. Lucky you getting to go there.
• 11:39
  I know. I feel like I feel like I've secretly hacked something, something in the life, the life, life continuum where I've now have a reason to be able to go back to that magical place frequently. Yes. Yeah. Yes. A hundred percent. I love that. Okay. So you have the idea you've kind of tracked down the citronella, which is one of your key ingredients. How do you then go from validating the idea to being like, okay, I'm actually going to start a business and like turn this into a thing?
• 12:06
  It's a good question. So I, as I said earlier, you know, I had known for a long time that I liked being in the space of having, of building something from scratch. And it took me a while to land on the idea that was Kinfield. And every idea that I had, I would sort of vet it against three things. So I would say,
• 12:24
  Is this something that I am deeply passionate about? You know, is this, you know, when you're starting a startup and launching into a company, if all goes well, you're going to be doing that for many, many years, longer than most, most jobs. Right. So ideally, if you're thinking about it, is this something you want to be thinking about, talking about for the next 70, 10 years at a minimum?
• 12:44
  And then I also wanted to look and see, is there a market for this? So one of the examples that I was given once was, you can be the best trombone oil maker in the world, but what is the market for trombone oil? Do you need that? Probably not. And what I was looking at within Kinfield was,
• 13:02
  that we knew that more and more people are spending time outdoors. And we also know that 87% of consumers want cleaner products for their personal care, skincare. And so the combination of those two things, I was looking at that and going, well, there's not a clean, effective alternative to these conventional goods, but we know that consumers want it. So I knew that there was a market there and the outdoor market is a $31 billion business. So we knew that there was an ample opportunity.
• 13:30
  And then the last question there is, do I need to be the person to build this? So it doesn't matter if you're passionate. It doesn't matter if there's a market there. If any number of people could do this, why you? And so for me, I was looking at it. I knew that these were products that I wanted. I had grown up using these kinds of products. I'd grown up in the outdoors. I was always the person who was taking my friends camping and wanting to introduce more people to the real health benefits that come with time outdoors. And yeah.
• 13:58
  And I had the combination of having the startup experience. I, during my time at Modern Citizen, had built an incredible network of other female founders, female businesses. And I really felt like I had the support system that I needed to be able to build this. And I also know that I have the tenacity of a bulldog and I will be anything through. And so it got to the point where I was like, I have to be this person.
• 14:21
  But once you, I think, choose to make that commitment, then from there, it's just a matter of asking the questions and you taking it one day at a time.
• 14:31
  Mm, totally. Gosh, it's just such a big adventure to embark on. And I'm wondering how you went from like, you know, going and exploring Indonesia and finding someone who can sell you citronella. And then is it you being like, OK, now I need to go back to the US and find a lab and like get them to ship the citronella over there? Or do you then produce it in Indonesia? How do you figure out those blocks that are like key to building the foundation of a brand? A great question.
• 14:59
  So definitely wanted to start with the product. I knew before anything else, you know, building the brand, building the website, we had to have a product that was better than anything else out there. So I initially thought that I, this was something that I could formulate in my kitchen. I was wrong, but I did. So, and, and, you know, to my, to my credit, to my roommate at the time, who she was very patient, she'd come home and there'd be, you know, slew of everything all over the kitchen counters. Yeah.
• 15:25
  But I quickly realized that that was not going to work and was not going to create a product that again could stand up to the market. And so what I actually ended up doing was tracking down a mentor within the space. And so I went to an event that was held at this wonderful place in San Francisco called The Assembly.
• 15:44
  And they were hosting an event with the Environmental Working Group, which happens to be based in San Francisco, and had a number of amazing panelists who were all talking about creating cleaner products and are definitely experts within the space.
• 15:58
  And one of the experts on that panel was a woman named Gaye Timmons. And Gaye Timmons is a legacy within this industry or a legend within this industry. Her company, OO Organics, has supplied organic ingredients to both labs and brands for upwards of 20 years.
• 16:15
  And she was on this panel. I remember just sitting in the audience and thinking, I have so many questions for her. All of the same questions of like, okay, I have this ingredient. Now what do I do with it? How, you know, thinking, okay, well, she works with labs. She probably knows a lab. I bet I can ask her. And to her credit, I, you know, I approached her after the event.
• 16:36
  And I was just like, hi, I have so many questions. And she really, you know, I think she saw my enthusiasm. And she said, here's my email. Why don't you email me? And I ended up, you know, going and meeting her for coffee. And she later actually ended up joining us as an advisor. But that really just came from organically, you know, just honestly Googling and going to these events and really relying on cold emails.
• 17:03
  to be able to help me level up the knowledge that I had, because I had no idea where to get started. And I was like, okay, but I need to find someone who does know how to get started and ask them the right questions. And so Gay was really that first person who then said, okay, well, you need a lab. And you probably need a lab with a low minimum, because you can't afford to go and start with 25,000 units of something, which some labs will say. And so she said, okay, why don't you go talk to this lab?
• 17:31
  And she put us in touch with our first lab. And once you go there, you know, you start talking with this lab and you're sort of pitching them on what your idea is. And they decide whether or not they want to work with you. And then you begin, you give them what's called a product development request. And you write out, you know, I want it to smell like this and I want it to use this ingredient. And some labs are really, you know, they just give you a white label lotion and they'll say, what?
• 17:57
  fragrance do you want to put in it okay now it's yours but we really wanted to innovate on something from the ground up and so that process was a like I said a long and arduous process for trying different things making sure that it would dry the way we want it to the way that you know be as effective as we wanted it to and it just you know like I said a lot of it was a lot of it was googling and and asking people what don't I know about this space what what should I be aware of what questions should I be asking and going from there.
• 18:26
  Wow, that's so cool. And how were you funding the business up until that point? Because, you know, a year plus of development, I imagine, is a costly thing to undertake, to not know if you're going to find your perfect forever product. I imagine it takes a lot of personal investment to get started. It does. And that's the unfortunate thing with consumer products, I think, is that there is a hefty amount of startup cost with it. Again, my family does
• 18:53
  was not coming from, you know, an entrepreneurial family, I really wasn't sure what that would entail. So I ended up doing a small round of friends and family. We were, I was fortunate enough to meet to meet Charles Hudson, who is the managing partner of a fund called Precursor. And they intentionally fund, you know, minority founders, female founders, to at the precede stage of the earliest stages, which is really oftentimes when people need the most, like
• 19:21
  you just need a little bit of capital to be able to get started. And so I did that, that kind of like early friends and family round. And that was what gave me enough capital to be able to get the idea off the ground. But that was hard. I had never pitched before. I remember, you know, a friend of mine who was another founder that I had met in San Francisco and,
• 19:43
  she introduced me to our first angel investor. And I remember meeting her and her saying, let's go to coffee. And me saying, oh, we can't go to coffee yet. I don't know what, you know, I'm not ready to pitch you. And I remember her saying, we can just go to coffee and you can tell me about your ideas.
• 20:02
  That's okay. And, you know, she made it a very welcoming space. And then later I did figure out how to pitch and build a pitch deck. But yeah, you know, it's hard to get capital to get started. But it really came from, I think, demonstrating that there was...
• 20:19
  a need there, sort of showing that light space within the market, encouraging them to go and try to find the types of products that I was looking for. That was always my favorite. They would come back and they would say, gosh, these are all really ugly. And none of them look very effective and they don't get good reviews. I was like, great. That's why we're here. So let's talk about that.
• 20:39
  Yeah, that's clever to show other reviews for other things and be like, hey, but look at this. Like there's not something that people are loving in this space. That's quite a clever tip to go through in a pitching situation for other women to keep in mind.
• 20:55
  I've read that you are a benefit corporation and this might sound like a really silly question, but like, what is that and what does it mean? And why was that important to you? Oh, I'm so glad you asked. This is something that I'm really passionate about. Um, and I don't get to talk about it enough. So thank you. Uh, great. So when, one of the first things that you choose when you are deciding to start a company is how you want to incorporate.
• 21:19
  So you can choose to be an LLC. You can choose to be, very few people do this, but you can choose to be an S-corp. Most people go with a C-corp. That's the most common form of an early company, although there are a lot of LLCs as well. And any lawyer can kind of guide you to what type of corporation is right for you based on your goals with the business. The...
• 21:43
  The thing about B Corps or public benefit corporations is that by definition, a C Corp exists to provide value for its shareholders. So that means your investors, that means your whoever owns part of your company, your goal as a leader in a C Corp is to provide value for them.
• 22:02
  With a B Corp, you are functionally a C Corp, you're taxed the same way, but you have as a public benefit corporation, an added part of your bylaws. And you actually have to provide this to the state when you incorporate, we actually went back and forth, we're incorporated in Delaware, we went back and forth with them to define our particular statement about this, but you have to have an additional purpose to
• 22:27
  that is designed to provide a public benefit. And why that was so important to me was because I wanted to be able to make decisions that were in line with our vision of a more sustainable future and a more accessible future. And so for us to be able to, for example,
• 22:47
  choose packaging that is more sustainable, even though it's more expensive. I never wanted that to be something that I wasn't going to be able to choose. And I wanted to be able to preserve my right as a leader to be able to make the choices for that more sustainable future.
• 23:03
  And regardless of even if it means that we have a lower margin, for example. And so to preserve that kind of optionality and really, I think, build that into the foundation of the business, it was important to me to incorporate as a benefit corporation and be able to build that into, again, like the foundation of Kinfield and really set that up.
• 23:24
  from the get-go so that every investor that we ever bring on, there's no ambiguity about why we're here and what we're doing. We're not a nonprofit. We are a corporation, but we are also
• 23:39
  building towards a more sustainable future. And we believe that we have a responsibility to do that. If we're creating products that are designed to get you outdoors, we need to be doing everything that we can to ensure that there is a healthy outdoors for you to be going to. So that was why we started is that.
• 23:56
  What it really means in terms of like the logistics of it, there doesn't mean a ton for us quite yet. We're in the process of also going through a separate certification, which is to become a certified B Corp. And that is something that's different than incorporating as a B Corp, although B