Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: Love Bombing, Life Insurance and Murder: The Randy Roth Story

Transcript

Killer Thriller: Love Bombing, Life Insurance and Murder: The Randy Roth Story · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Elisa Donovan.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: In July 1991, 34-year-old Cindy Roth drowned during what was
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: supposed to be a family outing on Washington's Lake Sammamish.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Her husband, Randy Roth, said it was a tragic accident.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: But investigators soon discovered some extraordinary details. Randy stood to
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: collect $ 385, 000 in life insurance. His account of Cindy's drowning
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: didn't add up, and 10 years earlier, another one of
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: his wives had fallen 300 feet to her death while
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: alone with him. Randy Roth was ultimately convicted of Cindy's
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: murder and sentenced to 50 years in prison. His story
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: became the centerpiece of the Lifetime movie, A Rose for
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Her Grave, The Randy Roth Story. Today, I am joined
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: by Colin Egglesfield, who plays Randy Roth. Hi, Colin. Welcome
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: to Killer Thriller. Thank you so much for talking with
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: me today.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to be here, even though I don't like
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to talk about killing. It's fun to sometimes play those
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: kinds of characters on TV and in movies, so thanks.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: For having me. Yep, yep. This is one of these,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: pretty much everything that we discuss on here is disturbing
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: to some lesser and greater degrees. And this in particular,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: we're going to get into all of it. But first
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: of all, did you know anything about Randy Roth before
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: you read the script?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't. And the more I started reading
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: about him, the more disturbed I got just realizing that
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: there's real people out there that could be this despicable
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and It takes a lot for me to call someone evil,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: but I think there's some people in this world that
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: unfortunately just don't have an empathetic bone in their body.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: And they just see the world as an opportunistic way
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: for them to get what they want. And I mean,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: after killing your second wife and then buying a yellow Corvette,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's bizarre. The psychological makeup of this man,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: it's incomprehensible. Right.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Did you learn anything about his upbringing? I know that
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: you've talked about struggling to understand how you can do
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: these things and how someone can have such a lack
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: of empathy. But did you learn anything about his upbringing?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Because I'm always so interested in where someone comes from
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: and how we get to where we are. And sometimes
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: some serial killers have very similar kind of upbringings and maladies.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: And some don't. Sometimes everything was just great and they
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: just turned out this way. Did you learn anything about
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: his past?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: From what I remember, he didn't have the most loving
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: household growing up. And I think some people may say, oh,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: what was me? Your mom and dad didn't give you
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: a hug and say, I love you. But I think
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: it goes deeper than that where... From what I remember,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: he was made to just do these weird things to
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: gain his parents' approval. Did you do much research about him?
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Do you remember his upbringing?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: All of that really tracks with his behavior towards not
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: only his wives in your movie, in the movie, but
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: also to the children, the way he manipulates the daughter
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: of the friend, which You know, we all have things
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: that kind of like push the button for us. And
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: for me, I have a 14-year-old daughter, so I think
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: very much about these sorts of influences.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The grooming was just disgusting, you know?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: For him, I think he saw himself, you know, one
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: of my acting teachers from the very get-go, she said,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: never judge any character that you're playing. Because if you
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: judge your character as evil or bad, then you're going
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: to play it almost like a caricature of who this
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: person really is. So you've got to approach it from everyone.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Everyone is motivated by something. And what I tried to
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: do is find the thing for Randy that made him
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: think he, what he was doing was, was positive. And
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: in my mind, he was protecting this young girl and, um,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: almost like mentoring her and guiding her. And from the outside,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: it looks like it's grooming. But I think in some ways,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: you know, some people seek that sort of protectorship and mentorship.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: And sometimes you get this weird combination of people who
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: don't get attention at home, and then they get it
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: from inappropriate people. And I think, you know, we see
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: it on the internet where, and OnlyFans, I mean, where
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: else would you bear all of, you know, all this,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: you know, naked bodies and skin and all this stuff.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: And what is it for? It's all for attention. Right.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: And I think ultimately at a very young age, if,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: if kids don't get validation or if they're not seen
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: or valued for who they are, and if they're only
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: seen and valued for how they look or, you know,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: the good grades that they get, or if they, um,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: made their bed and, and, cleaned up their, you know,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: made sure that their, their. Yeah. I think you, kids
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: can grow up seeking an unhealthy way to seek approval
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and it just manifests itself in ways like we saw
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: in the movie.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It certainly seems like, um, you know, that's
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: one of, there are many just despicable things about this,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: but the, the, one of the most certainly is his
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: treatment of these kids, of his own son, that behavioral
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: thing of getting the son to ask the women out
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: that seems so disarming and charming, like this guy's a
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: family guy and a good dad. And your work is
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: so disturbing because he's a charming guy. and he knows
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: how to get what he needs and what he wants.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think that's part of the challenge of
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: playing a character like that, because obviously he was very
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: successful at wooing these women. And the only way that
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: you look at what, what attracts people to, to someone
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: that they may be attracted to. And generally it's, it's,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: When you give someone attention, especially women who are divorced,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: and that's what Randy would prey on. Women who were
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: divorced and had kids and just the way in which
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: he was so calculating and trying to find out if
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: they had life insurance policies. And if they didn't, then
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden he would break up with them.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: But yeah, to use his son to approach women at
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: grocery stores and at the ball field like you saw
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: me do, it's just despicable.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: It's really so, it's despicable. And it's also so, you know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I think there are levels to this that are very,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: very common when women in particular are in a vulnerable place.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: And in Cindy's case, her husband had died. And he,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: for all intents and purposes, seemed to be a wonderful
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: man and provider and all those things. And so she
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: was really quite heartbroken. And to manipulate that. And I
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: also wanted to bring up the fact of the friend.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I was talking offline about this, how you're always in
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: a losing position as the friend if you're like, hey,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: your partner, he kind of sucks, you know, like he's
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: not a good guy.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: He's he's creepy and he lies and he just, yeah,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: you can't, it's hard. Very difficult, um, to be in
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: a position like that. Um, and Chrishell Stouse played Cindy's
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: best friends and Chrishell actually worked with on all my
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: children back in the day.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, you did.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I got to work with her again on this and, um,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And so we had, we have a really good friendship.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: And so to be able to really go at each
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: other was fun because it kind of felt like we
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: could go maybe deeper than, than we had just had
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: this familiarity with each other where we felt like we
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: could really try to creep each other out and really
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: get it under each other's skin.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Yes. It was very effective. You can see that because
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: it does feel like she, you know, there is a,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: there's like a a look in your eye where you
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: are realizing oh she's not going away and i don't
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: like but then you have to be you know careful
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: enough with the response to not but you know do
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: you think so this is really the question do you
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: think that we get blinders on when you know when
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: we are vulnerable and really want something oh.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah haven't you ever dated someone where you were like
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: sure red flag red flag but you know what It's
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: so fun to hang out in Netflix and chill with him. Totally.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: It's okay.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: He had this little vial in his pocket. It had
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: white powder, but I'm pretty sure it was not drugs. Oh,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: he came to New York with no money except to
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: live off of me? Listen, I think he just really
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: loves me. Just speaking from experience. Sorry.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Hey, I mean... I think we've all been there in
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: one shape or form or another and had to feel
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: like you've had to make excuses for someone that you've–
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: like I've introduced to my family.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I was dating actually this one girl and my roommate
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: at the time, he comes up to me. He's like, hey, man,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: did you eat my cornflakes? And I'm like, no. And
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: he's like, my cornflakes– I'm like, I don't even like cornflakes.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: And he's like, do you think your girlfriend– maybe he's
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: eating them. And I'm like, cause she came to stay
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: with me for, for a little bit. And, uh, I
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: asked her, she's like, no, of course I like, what
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: are you talking about? I didn't eat your, and then
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: next thing you know, like, you know, some of his
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: potato chips are gone. And then some, and he's like, dude,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: like something's going on. So one night I woke up
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: and I go into the kitchen and there she is
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: like eating. And, you know, I felt bad because she
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: obviously had an eating disorder.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: The fact that.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: She, was struggling with something as well and didn't feel
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: comfortable admitting it to me, but yet denied it and
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: then lied to my face about it. It's like, it's
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: one thing if you're dealing with something and then you're
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: honest and say, listen, yeah, this is what I'm struggling with.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: But I think some people are not capable of admitting
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: something that it could be perceived as an imperfection or
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: a flaw. And so you put on this persona of
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: who you want the world to interact with. And what's
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: really interesting about acting and what I find fascinating about
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: it is this, the psychology of, of creating a character
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: and is, you know, people ask me like, when you
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: play this character, do you ever lose yourself in the character?
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like you have to ever like shake
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: it off after, you know, a few weeks of playing
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: a character? And, you know, you see people like Daniel
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Day-Lewis who become Bill the butcher and you have to
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: call him Bill in, on, you know, in the lunch line.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: And like, he's, he's not Daniel, he's Bill for like
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: two months, you know? And I, I, I, Hey, whatever
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: works for whatever actor, I think go for it. But,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: you know, then there's Jared Leto who would send like
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: dead rats to the cast of, um, you know, like
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Margot Robbie when he was playing the Joker. And I
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: think you can kind of go.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: To the extremes and.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Cross a line when you're trying to, create this persona
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: and make people afraid of you. But I think what's
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: really interesting is that the CIA, I read, did a
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: study once and they determined that essentially we all have
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: three different personas that we own and engage with and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: create and put out there. And the first one is
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the persona that you want the world to interface with.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: You think about, okay, if I want to get this
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: job or if I want to get this girl or
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: if I, you know, if I want to be a
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: good dad.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Like sort of what's the appealing personality, yeah.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Like you think about what would that person
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: find attractive or want to hear? And so you start
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: to become calculating in how you create this persona that
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: the outside world interacts with. The second... self-identity is the,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the part of you that you feel comfortable enough to share.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Like when you come home and you've, you've got your,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: with your husband or your wife, or, you know, where
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, man, my boss is such
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: a jerk head. And I, you know, he did this
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: where you feel like you can honestly say what's really
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: going on that you wouldn't really tell anyone else. And
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: then there's the third part, the third persona, self-identity part
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: of who we are, That we don't tell anyone. This
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: is the shadow. The shadow self. Where we, it's our deepest,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: darkest thoughts of when someone cuts you off in traffic,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you're literally like, I want to kill you. And it's like,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: you don't literally, but like, I think some people actually,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, you see some people actually do it.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, I do think that's something that, you know, Everyone,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: this is what really fascinates me and I think is
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: important for us as human beings to understand is, you know,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: as you said in the beginning, no one is just
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: pure evil. That's just not like, I mean, maybe, maybe
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: there was some kind of.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I think there's usually a reason.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Something scarred you or you just didn't, you weren't, there
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: was something lacking in your upbringing, your rearing.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: That scarred you emotionally or psychologically or spiritually or something,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: you know, not that that's an excuse. Right.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: But in an explanation or something. So Randy, many women
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: that he did this to, he was only convicted of, of,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: killing Cindy of her death. But his first wife, Janice
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: had a hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy that went
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: into effect 20 days before she died. I mean, that's how,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: how is that not suspicious? I don't know. Um, but
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: the investigators didn't find any physical evidence at the location
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: consistent with this. He said that she slipped and fell.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Randomly slipped off a cliff. Yeah.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, so do you think it should have been
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: further investigated when it happened?
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: What a klutz.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Gosh, is she just clumsy.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, how do you slip off? I mean, come on. Right.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: So don't you think that that should have been further
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: investigated more aggressively when it happened?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is just the weird thing because
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: on the outside, he looked just like a normal, nice guy.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Everyone in the neighborhood was like, yeah, it's Randy. He's
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: a nice guy, always willing to help and mow the lawn.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: It's like you never think in a million years. But
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: after Cindy's death, then it's like, okay, this is.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: The second time. This guy's got the worst luck on earth?
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Right. So another friend of Randy's, he testified that shortly
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: before Janice died, Randy asked him whether he could ever
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: kill his wife.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: And then after Janice died, the same friend asked him
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: what happened, and Randy told him he didn't want to
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: tell him something that he'd have to lie about. Is
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: there any innocent way to hear that?
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I mean... No, and I think this just goes to
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: show you how much of a narcissist Randy really was
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: because narcissists, they just think the rules don't apply to them.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: And what they'll do is they'll test. And this is
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: what I've read about narcissists. They will test the boundaries
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: and see just stepping over a little bit, like test,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: like that's why he tested his friend to see what
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the friend would do. And the friend didn't really, do anything.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: And so Randy's like, okay, now I can, I feel
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: like I can push it even further. Right. When you
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: hear something enough, there was another study that was done
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: that you start to believe that it's true just because
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: of how many times you've actually heard it. Yes. Yes.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Right. And that's part of the, it seems part of
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: the manipulation of not, we talk a lot about narcissists
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: on this show because not every one, murderer is, but
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: most many are. And that kind of like slow burn of, of, of, uh,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: you know, sort of slowly telling somebody how it is
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: like Randy didn't start out telling Cindy how to do
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: her hair, that she needed to change her weight, that
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: she needed to do this and that he didn't start
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: out that doing that. Right. He started out as this
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: charming guy. And so then, slowly start, you sort of
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: layer in these things where the person doesn't even necessarily
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: realize they're being manipulated. Yeah.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you can see he, sometimes you'll see it
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: in relationships. It's just these slow or these subtle little digs,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: these subtle little, like, why would you do that? What
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: are you, what are you doing? Like, why would you, like,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: where were you? And it's like, okay, we're going to,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: we're going to, nip this right now. Like, you're not
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: my mother. You're not. Right. Or you're not my father.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Like... I think people really have to be aware of
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: these subtle little things. And if you are in a
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: vulnerable position or place where you've just gotten out of
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: a relationship and taking care of a son and feeling
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: like that's a lot. Being a single mom is a lot.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: And to meet someone who's charming and wants to take
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you out on a date and tells you you look beautiful,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: it can feel good.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: And like someone who has a son of his own
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: and is a great dad, is kind to your child. Yeah. Yeah.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: And so Cindy left behind a handwritten list of 44
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: things that Randy hated about her. And that note was
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: admitted at his trial. What, what did that tell you
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: about what life inside that marriage had become?
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: That he viewed women as possessions and for him, I
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: feel like the only thing that made him feel any
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: sense of an idea of who he was, was if
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: he owned and controlled things. I think growing up, as
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: a kid, he was out of control a lot. And
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: I think when you're out of control and you grow
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: up in an environment where you're not sure where love
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: is coming from or, you know, really where you exist
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: in your parents, you know, as far as like how
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: your parents view you. And if you're, if you're not
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: used to hearing, I love you. And it, I think
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: when you start to grasp for, for grasp for, for
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: things that at least give you some sort of certainty
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: in life. And I think, especially when we're in arguments,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: arguments usually are when you get out of control, you're
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: feeling like, you've lost a sense of feeling safe. And
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: especially with men, we can get very angry. And the
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: reason why men get angry, and women too, is because
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: it's the fastest way to gain certainty in any situation.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: And so when a man is out of control, let's
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: say he's not feeling like he's in a great position
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: at work, maybe he's not making as much money as
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: he thinks he deserves, or he's not able to buy
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: his kids what the other parents are buying, or they
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: can't go on vacations. And if a man feels like
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: he's not able to be who he wants to be,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the provider and the hero, anything that can test him
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: will make him go to this place of feeling, you
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to get angry and I'm going
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: to say some things that usually they don't mean. And
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: it's usually because it's the fastest way for people to
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: gain certainty in a situation when they're out of control.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I never thought about it that way as certainty, right?
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Because that is then, in a sense, a form of control, right?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: If it's, I'm certain of this, I am making it so,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: and then you're in the control position of things. And
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: that's a safer place and a more powerful place to be. Yeah.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: And what's creepy is affection is not the same thing
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: as love. And what Randy would do is love bomb
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: these women and they would feel the feelings of affection
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and they would confuse it with love. And as soon
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: as they would then give love back because he's not
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: used to receiving it, that made him feel unsafe and uncomfortable.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: And so it made him put up his, right. And
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: get angry. So the more that women would love him,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: the more devious he would get. And I could see
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: where he would just like, especially, um, when Cindy and
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: he go out in the raft and, you know, they're
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: at a lake and they go out in the raft
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: and then they come back and she's dead and he's alive.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: And he said, well, A boat went by and flipped
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the raft over, yet everything in the raft was still
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: in the raft and his sunglasses were still on. It's like, really?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: And also, like, whoops, it just flipped over and he
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: seems to be, again, no empathy. Like, it just, it doesn't,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: it doesn't make any sense.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And the scene at the end where I'm being
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: interrogated by the two detectives.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. That's a good one. That's a very good scene. Yeah.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: You know, I tried to play it where it was like,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's, there's like, well, what are you talking? Like,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: what do you mean me?
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: And they present it for people that haven't seen it.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: They present it such that the one investigator is like,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: You're right, Randy. Like, everything's right. You're doing. We're just
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: going to just, we just need some clarity on a
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: couple little things.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just have a couple more questions.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so he feels like, oh, I'm right. This is
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: a warm room.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Right, that they're on the same team. Let's find the
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: truth together, Randy.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: And that's the best approach that detectives that I've read
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and FBI agents take. They try to befriend. Befriend.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Befriend.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: And say, listen, I know, listen, I know that must
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: have been difficult. And, you know, a lot of people
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: in your situation would have done the same thing. I
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: get it. I hear you. You know, I'm just like,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: would you help me understand this? And so they do
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: a masterful job at that. But there's also the part of,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: you know, he's got a play that he's got remorse,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: even though he doesn't have remorse. So it's like this superficial...
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: talking about something horrendous that happened, but yet it's a
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: totally disconnected from any sort of feeling from it.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if you saw the, uh, the
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: new documentary trailer for, um, what is it? Elizabeth Holmes.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Theranos where Nathan Fielder, where he's talking to her and
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: he's like, are you being real right now? And she's like, yeah, why, why,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: why wouldn't I be real with you right now? Why
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: wouldn't I? And I was, have you ever watched the
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Diary of a CEO with Stephen Bartlett?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: No.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: It's a really great podcast. And he had a psychologist
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: on there and she was talking about like how sociopaths,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: the way you can tell someone who's a sociopath is
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: when they're talking about explaining something She said they have
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: this look of surprise on their face. And sure enough,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I just got that documentary. Elizabeth Holmes, her, her, she's like,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: what do you mean? What are you talking about the
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: whole time? And she's like, well, I, of course I'm
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: being real with you right now. Why wouldn't I be real?
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And it's this.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: That is amazing. It's like they read something that says,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: if you really engage with your eye, it's like, if
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: you directly engage, confront someone, you're telling the truth. Like
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: that is, that is so scary.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: I've met her and that before she was, and I
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: was like, this person is not right. She is not
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: right in, in, in the head. This is not okay.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And that same expression all the time. It's super disturbing.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I just find this fascinating. And I think the, the, uh,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: the gold standard for how to play a sociopath serial
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: killer is in Silence of the Lambs Anthony Hopkins Hopkins
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: who plays Hannibal Lecter just the calm and the control
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: and the precision and the way in which you know
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: he's so charming and the way in which he just
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: metaphorically undresses Clarice, even with the glass between them. Yep.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: It's fascinating.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Man, he was so good in that movie. Okay, Randy
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: testified for more than 20 hours and continued insisting that
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Cindy's death was an accident. Do you think that Randy
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: actually believed his own lies or simply believed that he
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: was smarter than everyone else listening to him?
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think he believed his own lies. The
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: problem is people are attracted to people who are confident
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: and who are certain about something. And it doesn't necessarily
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: matter what I realize that what you say is the
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: truth or not.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Right, because if they believe it, then that makes you
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: believe it. You go, oh, they really believe this, so
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: there must be some validity to it.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: And then it's like, am I the crazy one?
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's the basis of a lot
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: of cults too. People like, okay, I'm going to jump on,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: which he, Randy Roth, I feel like had, there were
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: moments in this movie where I felt like, oh, this is,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: if he had had a little more time before he
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: got caught. he he could he maybe would have started
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: a cult you know between the young girl and his
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: own child and the women obviously it's like that kind
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: of behavior is.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah you see like with david koresh yes the waco
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: thing and yep um I don't know. You see it.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I see it in religions. I mean, I think you
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: got to be careful what you engage with because a
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: lot of drinking the Kool-Aid out there.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. And that slow kind of, you know, Cindy,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: there's a scene of this in the film as well
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: where he is choking her at night in bed. Well, amazing.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: you know, set like to a point where she's terrified
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: and in pain. And she says, well, no, she kind
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: of explains it away and says he just has PTSD
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: from the military.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Even though he didn't even serve in combat. Like that's
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the crazy thing.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say. There's a lot
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: of this stuff of his sort of militaristic behavior that
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: he learned, but he, he was never, he never saw combat. Right. Right.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: He lied about that.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: He was really, really so calculated in, in so much
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: of this that it's impossible. There is another quote that
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: a lifeguard and a paramedic were trying to revive Cindy.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: And there were eyewitnesses that saw Randy just calmly gathering
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: the family's beach gear, loading up the car like I've
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: done this. I mean, is there anything more damning than that?
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Everybody responds to grief differently. We all understand that. But
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: there is nothing normal about that response. No. If I may,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I did want to just say that I really admire
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: and appreciate how unusually candid you've been about your cancer
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: diagnosis and your recovery and your surgery and all those things.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: And I'm just wondering, was there a conscious decision that
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: if you were going public, you weren't going to sanitize
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: parts of it, that you were going to really talk
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: about things that people are often embarrassed to talk about? Yeah.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you first off for acknowledging that. Yeah. Three
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: times going through cancer diagnosis. First time, 2006 testicular cancer.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: And then it came back again the next year. And
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: because it's testicular cancer guy stuff, I didn't really feel
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: comfortable talking about it for a while. I didn't, I
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be known for that. I didn't get, I,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I didn't, I was working on all my children. I
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: didn't know if I was gonna get fired. I, I
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: didn't like, there was a lot of just, I didn't
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: want many people to know about it. So I just
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: tried to have the surgery and move on and, and
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: just keep going. But then I started to, you know,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I like to run and do triathlons. And so I
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: would start to do these charity, um, marathons that I'm,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I'm actually running the New York marathon this year to
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: raise money for cancer support community and city of hope hospital. Um,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: And when I would do these charity runs, I would
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: meet people who were going through their cancer journey and
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: it just would organically come out where they would say, yeah, no,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I've got this, or I've got testicular cancer. I've got,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: you know, this or whatever. And I'd like, oh yeah, I've,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I've had radiation too. And they're like, really? And I'm like, yeah,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: you had, how was your surgery? What was it like
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: for you? And I just found myself talking about it
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: with people who are going through a cancer journey. And
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: actually it was, I realized it was healing for me too.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And what helped me through it was just reading about
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: other people who had gone through it and gotten through
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: on the other side. And so I realized just me
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: talking to people and talking about it on social media
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: and being real about it was helping people navigate something
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: that can be scary. And then two years ago, diagnosed
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: with prostate cancer and Ooh, that was a, that was a,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: a number. Um, but there's a lot of things that
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: you don't talk about in terms of like you've got
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: a catheter and you've got, you got to learn how
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom again and you got to
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: wear male diapers and stuff. And so people were messaging
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: me on social media and I was like, yeah, you
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: know what? For five weeks, it's not the funnest, but
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: you're going to get through it.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And this is what's possible on.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: The other side. And, and, it helped me talking to
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: people who were on the other side of it. So
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I just felt that, you know, if I can share
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: something that might make it easier and give someone a
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: little more empowerment through something that's kind of scary, I
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: just felt like, you know, why not?
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I really, bravo to that. I'm such a firm
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: believer in, you know, this is how we heal from anything,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: any malady, emotional, physical disease, uh, abuse, anything is first
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: of all, we have to actually acknowledge it and be
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: able to talk about it. It's, it's, it's just so
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: important and, and it really does help other people. And
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I know this Personally, from my dad passing away of
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: cancer and then me being very public talking about my
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: eating disorder, talk about something that nobody wants to hear that.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Certainly back in the day, they didn't. And it did
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: have an impact on my career. But I felt like
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: this is the reality of what's happening. And I have
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: to be true to myself. And through doing that, it
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: empowered me But then I also realized, oh, you can
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: help other people. And it's sort of this idea of
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: answering the call of your life, whether it's the call
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: you wanted to get or not. And do you.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Feel like it was healing for you to talk about
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: it and help give you some clarity?
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: And people, it's like that's part of, I don't know
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: how to say this, it's part.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Of sort of what you sign up for when you're
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: in the public eye to some degree. I know some
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: people feel very differently about that. They feel as though,
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't sign up for this. I signed up to
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: make movies. It's like, well, if you wanted to be
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: successful at it, it means people are going to know
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: who you are.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: People are going to know, yeah. Yes.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of like it does sort of come
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: with the territory to some degree. So I just really
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: appreciate that. And I just wanted to tell you that.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: And I'm glad that you're healthy.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. And I want to acknowledge you for
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: doing what you're doing and just having me here. And
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I would love to come back.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: A Rose for Her Grave, the Randy Roth story, streaming.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: And your work is really great in it. And I
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: highly recommend it. So thank you so much for being here, Colin.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: You're loveliest. It's been really nice to meet you.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Thanks, Alisa. Appreciate it.