Latest / Unicorn Football Talk / State of the NFL: Part 2a

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State of the NFL: Part 2a · Unicorn Football Talk

• Emily Schmidt: Late nineteen thirties through the early nineteen fifties. if a casual fan likes to see lots of scoring, but I agree with you. Hey Emily, we're back for episode two of our Unicorn Football podcast. I'm excited to talk to you today. Same, we're talking more State of the NFL because we didn't cover it all the first episode. There's so much more to talk about, isn't there? There is, there is. What's on tap for today? We're going to talk about rules and safety. Hilary: Hey Emily, we're back for episode two of our Unicorn Football podcast. I'm excited to talk to you today. Same, we're talking more State of the NFL because we didn't cover it all the first episode. There's so much more to talk about, isn't there? There is, there is. What's on tap for today? We're going to talk about rules and safety. Emily Schmidt: pretty passionate about? there anything you want to chat about? Yeah, I want to jump in and I want to talk about past interference. ⁓ think it's kind of one of the most controversial officiating calls and it's certainly one that generates the most fan excitement or angst depending on which team you're cheering for and it's just kind of, ⁓ it's super significant and it's also one of the more subjective. Hilary: pretty passionate about? there anything you want to chat about? Yeah, I want to jump in and I want to talk about past interference. ⁓ think it's kind of one of the most controversial officiating calls and it's certainly one that generates the most fan excitement or angst depending on which team you're cheering for and it's just kind of, ⁓ it's super significant and it's also one of the more subjective. Emily Schmidt: tush push. You do? Okay, let's do it. Why are you highlighting this one? reason I'm highlighting this one, I was thinking a year ago, where there were some proposals to get rid of it. Hilary: tush push. You do? Okay, let's do it. Why are you highlighting this one? reason I'm highlighting this one, I was thinking a year ago, where there were some proposals to get rid of it. Emily Schmidt: Right, they even voted on it at the owners meeting and there were not enough owners on board to pass the rule. Yes, overturn it or to get rid of it. And what bothered me about the conversations that were taking place at that time is everybody saying, ⁓ those people want to get rid of it because ⁓ the are good at it. ⁓ Hilary: Right, they even voted on it at the owners meeting and there were not enough owners on board to pass the rule. Yes, overturn it or to get rid of it. And what bothered me about the conversations that were taking place at that time is everybody saying, ⁓ those people want to get rid of it because ⁓ the are good at it. ⁓ Emily Schmidt: But I think there's a couple of areas that I'm not fully. I'm sensing a little passionate response here. Emily, is there a rule you don't really like? I'm upset with what's happened to onside kick. OK, tell me why. ⁓ Let's it. ⁓ I the onside kick, not a play that's done all the time. It's really rare. was rare. It's always been kind of rare. by rare, mean ⁓ you go a whole game and not see one. Hilary: But I think there's a couple of areas that I'm not fully. I'm sensing a little passionate response here. Emily, is there a role you don't really like? I'm super upset with what's happened to the onside kick. OK, tell me why. Let's hear it. I love the onside kick, not a play that's done all the time. It's really rare. was rare. It's always been kind of rare. by rare, mean you can go a whole game and not see one. Emily Schmidt: and this has been fun for me to dig into a little bit. I've been a fan for really long time, but I learned a lot when I dug in. Rules have evolved lot ⁓ the early days. Hilary: and this has been fun for me to dig into a little bit. I've been a fan for really long time, but I learned a lot when I dug in. Rules have evolved a lot from the early days. Emily Schmidt: made on the field by the officiating crew There's a lot more discretion there than some other things. ⁓ the first big thing about past interference that I think makes it so controversial is it's a spot foul. So that means that ⁓ where penalty happens is where they're gonna place the ball Hilary: made on the field by the officiating crew There's a lot more discretion there than some other things. ⁓ the first big thing about past interference that I think makes it so controversial is it's a spot foul. So that means that ⁓ where penalty happens is where they're gonna place the ball Emily Schmidt: So it seems to be a combination of rules to protect players and rules that will improve watchability. Okay, but you still have to declare it, right? You still have to declare it. Okay. Which we can have feelings about. The next one, I had to read this like, I'm not joking, maybe five or six times to understand it. It's called closing the midfield loophole to eliminate the kicking team's incentive to intentionally kick the ball out of bounds when kicking off from the 50 yard line. So if... Hilary: Okay, but you still have to declare it, right? You still have to declare it. Okay. Which we can have feelings about. The next one, I had to read this like, I'm not joking, maybe five or six times to understand it. It's called closing the midfield loophole to eliminate the kicking team's incentive to intentionally kick the ball out of bounds when kicking off from the 50 yard line. So if... Emily Schmidt: That's different from in college where it's, ⁓ think it's a 15 yard penalty. And different than a lot of other penalties in the NFL that are 10 yards, 15 yards, whatever. ⁓ So has the potential to make a really big difference for the offense where they're starting on the field, throw a deep ball, get that call. Maybe you're gaining 30, 40 yards on that spot foul and. Hilary: That's different from in college where it's, ⁓ think it's a 15 yard penalty. And different than a lot of other penalties in the NFL that are 10 yards, 15 yards, whatever. ⁓ So has the potential to make a really big difference for the offense where they're starting on the field, throw a deep ball, get that call. Maybe you're gaining 30, 40 yards on that spot foul and. Emily Schmidt: But I decided to look deeper into it make sure I should still feel this way. ⁓ I learned a about it. originally ⁓ you push somebody for the history the NFL, right? This was a rule that was introduced in 2005. Hilary: But I decided to look deeper into it make sure I should still feel this way. ⁓ I learned a about it. originally ⁓ you push somebody for the history the NFL, right? This was a rule that was introduced in 2005. Emily Schmidt: Actually, I think that it is maybe in some teams offensive playbooks as an option. Hey, it's late in the game or maybe it's not even maybe it's early in the game and we feel in pretty good and let's just take a shot downfield and see if we can get the call. I can flip the field. It can negate really great defensive performance by the defending team. Maybe they've been ⁓ Hilary: Actually, I think that it is maybe in some teams offensive playbooks as an option. Hey, it's late in the game or maybe it's not even maybe it's early in the game and we feel in pretty good and let's just take a shot downfield and see if we can get the call. I can flip the field. It can negate really great defensive performance by the defending team. Maybe they've been ⁓ Emily Schmidt: They would kick it out of bounds because it was more beneficial to them because the receiving team would get the ball in the 25 yard line versus if the receiving team just did a touchback they'd get it at 35. Okay when you say out of bounds you mean through the back of the end zone or anywhere out of bounds? Anywhere out of bounds. Interesting okay. Hilary: They would kick it out of bounds because it was more beneficial to them because the receiving team would get the ball in the 25 yard line versus if the receiving team just did a touchback they'd get it at 35. Okay when you say out of bounds you mean through the back of the end zone or anywhere out of bounds? Anywhere out of bounds. Interesting okay. Emily Schmidt: Okay, excitement for the viewers and the fans in the stadium. Yes. Yeah. So there was this guy his name is Hugh Ray, worked for the NFL in the Hilary: Okay, excitement for the viewers and the fans in the stadium. Yes. Yeah. So there was this guy his name is Hugh Ray, worked for the NFL in the Emily Schmidt: That it was okay. That it was okay. Alright, to move the pile. So, I was a little shocked by that because the tush push has only been around for, I don't know, a few years. Hilary: That it was okay. That it was okay. Alright, to move the pile. So, I was a little shocked by that because the tush push has only been around for, I don't know, a few years. Emily Schmidt: few years has essentially killed it. It's pretty much dead. It's what it was and I think the game is, ⁓ as good because of it. Okay. So what changed? So they were trying to make kickoffs more safe, which I fully support as a fan. I want players to be safe or safer. It's a violent sport. Hilary: few years has essentially killed it. It's pretty much dead. It's what it was and I think the game is, ⁓ as good because of it. Okay. So what changed? So they were trying to make kickoffs more safe, which I fully support as a fan. I want players to be safe or safer. It's a violent sport. Emily Schmidt: And he was a number cruncher. He was using stats back in early days and he found a direct correlation between scoring and higher attendance. So even in the early days, they were stats as a basis for recommendations ⁓ of offense boosting rule changes. Hilary: And he was a number cruncher. He was using stats back in early days and he found a direct correlation between scoring and higher attendance. So even in the early days, they were stats as a basis for recommendations ⁓ of offense boosting rule changes. Emily Schmidt: stalling a drive for a long time and then all of a sudden, you know, one big play kind of busts it open. Definitely gets to the point about the NFL wanting to make things exciting for the fans, right? So a little trivia on PI guess, before we get into the nuts and bolts of it. Who do you think the master receiver is who gets the most yardage out of pass interference calls? Hilary: stalling a drive for a long time and then all of a sudden, you know, one big play kind of busts it open. Definitely gets to the point about the NFL wanting to make things exciting for the fans, right? So a little trivia on PIA, guess, before we get into the nuts and bolts of it. Who do you think the master receiver is who gets the most yardage out of pass interference calls? Emily Schmidt: the Eagles ⁓ a way ⁓ use this rule and have success. I'm sure it had something to do with Jalen Hurts just ⁓ the body strength for it. ⁓ good for them, right? It's the rule. They should be able to do it. I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do it. ⁓ when I watch that play, ⁓ just doesn't look like football to me. Hilary: the Eagles ⁓ a way ⁓ use this rule and have success. I'm sure it had something to do with Jalen Hurts just ⁓ the body strength for it. ⁓ good for them, right? It's the rule. They should be able to do it. I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do it. ⁓ when I watch that play, ⁓ just doesn't look like football to me. Emily Schmidt: And apparently this has stuck with the NFL even after it was gone. Just curious, before we start, are you one those people that likes higher scoring games? Or do you like a defensive battle? Hilary: And apparently this has stuck with the NFL even after it was gone. Just curious, before we start, are you one those people that likes higher scoring games? Or do you like a defensive battle? Emily Schmidt: But I think you're changing the kickoff, do you need to do so much to the onside kick? ⁓ Hilary: But I think you're changing the kickoff, do you need to do so much to the onside kick? ⁓ Emily Schmidt: there is a penalty for kicking out of bounds and it's placed 25 yards from the spot of the kick, which is if you're kicking off from the 50 is 25 All right, we only have three more. Hilary: there is a penalty for kicking out of bounds and it's placed 25 yards from the spot of the kick, which is if you're kicking off from the 50 is 25 All right, we only have three more. Emily Schmidt: You know, that's a really interesting question and I'm not sure that a higher scoring game necessarily means a more exciting game to me. it's a battle and you've got one offensive coordinator trying to figure out how to crack that defense and it ends up in a battle of Hilary: You know, that's a really interesting question and I'm not sure that a higher scoring game necessarily means a more exciting game to me. it's a battle and you've got one offensive coordinator trying to figure out how to crack that defense and it ends up in a battle of Emily Schmidt: I mean was it as necessary? So let's just go back in time pre 2018 the golden years of on-site kick the recovery rate was around 20 % for the kicking team to get the ball back that is just the sweet spot to me. Okay okay. in five shot that you can get the ball back. One more possession. One more possession it's a risk you take. Hilary: I mean was it as necessary? So let's just go back in time pre 2018 the golden years of on-site kick the recovery rate was around 20 % for the kicking team to get the ball back that is just the sweet spot to me. Okay okay. in five shot that you can get the ball back. One more possession. One more possession it's a risk you take. Emily Schmidt: Okay, I'm gonna, I'm Do you have any feelings about it? do, I do. I'm gonna stake a claim here. I think it's great. I think that any time a team can find a way to use the rules and create a new play or kind of on those edges of something that the other team isn't doing, go for it, man. It's totally legal. it's. Hilary: Okay, I'm gonna, I'm Do you have any feelings about it? do, I do. I'm gonna stake a claim here. I think it's great. I think that any time a team can find a way to use the rules and create a new play or kind of on those edges of something that the other team isn't doing, go for it, man. It's totally legal. it's. Emily Schmidt: you know, short plays or field goals to win it. I'm all for that. I don't necessarily think that it's just all about big splashy long yardage plays generate points as excitement. I the same way. I do wonder Hilary: you know, short plays or field goals to win it. I'm all for that. I don't necessarily think that it's just all about big splashy long yardage plays generate points as excitement. I the same way. I do wonder Emily Schmidt: The standout leader with more than 900 yards of penalties gained for his team is Mike Evans with Tampa Bay Hilary: The standout leader with more than 900 yards of penalties gained for his team is Mike Evans with Tampa Bay Emily Schmidt: they're modifying the kickoff alignment requirements to receiving players in the setup zone. I did not go into details. They're just tweaking with what the formations can be. It didn't seem material when I was looking at it. So I didn't make more notes. Hilary: they're modifying the kickoff alignment requirements to receiving players in the setup zone. I did not go into details. They're just tweaking with what the formations can be. It didn't seem material when I was looking at it. So I didn't make more notes. Emily Schmidt: So you're the team that's behind, you have hope. ⁓ Hilary: So you're the team that's behind, you have hope. ⁓ Emily Schmidt: It's an ugly football play. will give it that. But in short yardage situations, if you can pull it off, great. And I do think over time, the teams that play the Eagles frequently have gotten better at learning how to defend that play. And I think some other teams have tried it as successfully. And again, that probably comes, has to do with your line and your Hilary: It's an ugly football play. will give it that. But in short yardage situations, if you can pull it off, great. And I do think over time, the teams that play the Eagles frequently have gotten better at learning how to defend that play. And I think some other teams have tried it as successfully. And again, that probably comes, has to do with your line and your Emily Schmidt: now a 49er, so that's into our division and a little thing. But ⁓ he's a super tall, rangy guy. He has an amazing like catch radius and body control and all that kind of stuff. And I don't know what he's doing or saying, but last year surpassed Randy Moss as the like all time. All time. Yeah, like all time. Hilary: now a 49er, so that's into our division and a little thing. But ⁓ he's a super tall, rangy guy. He has an amazing like catch radius and body control and all that kind of stuff. And I don't know what he's doing or saying, but last year surpassed Randy Moss as the like all time. All time. Yeah, like all time. Emily Schmidt: And if you're the team that's ahead, you're nervous. In 2018, there was a rule change that people say is, quote, the end of the onside kick. And it has to do with no running start, kickoff teams used to be running with the kicker. OK, it's like a higher impact potential for collisions. Hilary: And if you're the team that's ahead, you're nervous. In 2018, there was a rule change that people say is, quote, the end of the onside kick. And it has to do with no running start, kickoff teams used to be running with the kicker. OK, it's like a higher impact potential for collisions. Emily Schmidt: The next one is really interesting, allowing league personnel to consult with on field officials when considering disqualifications for both flagrant football acts and non football acts without being called on the field. So that's a lot of words. That's a lot of words. And when we mean league officials, we mean those watching and reviewing the officiating from New York. Correct? Yes. I mean, New York, I don't know if there would be a situation where anybody else would call in, but we've got people that are Hilary: The next one is really interesting, allowing lead personnel to consult with on field officials when considering disqualifications for both flagrant football acts and non football acts without being called on the field. So that's a lot of words. That's a lot of words. And when we mean league officials, we mean those watching and reviewing the officiating from New York. Correct? Yes. I mean, New York, I don't know if there would be a situation where anybody else would call in, but we've got people that are Emily Schmidt: mean, I wouldn't say a six six game is particularly interesting but unless it's your team then it's exciting right interested in seeing my team play ⁓ but Yeah, if it's just offense score offense score offense score offense score. I don't find that actually particularly interesting but Hilary: mean, I wouldn't say a six six game is particularly interesting but unless it's your team then it's exciting right interested in seeing my team play ⁓ but Yeah, if it's just offense score offense score offense score offense score. I don't find that actually particularly interesting but Emily Schmidt: for all time. Okay. I didn't get a lot of Buccaneers games, but now we'll be able to see him a little bit more. And so interestingly enough, too, for last year specifically, I got to this carefully, ⁓ receiver who ⁓ attempted past interferences ⁓ him the most last year was CD Lamb for the Cowboys. Hilary: for all time. Okay. I didn't get a lot of Buccaneers games, but now we'll be able to see him a little bit more. And so interestingly enough, too, for last year specifically, I got to this carefully, ⁓ receiver who ⁓ attempted past interferences ⁓ him the most last year was CD Lamb for the Cowboys. Emily Schmidt: quarterbacks, athletic abilities, you know, a whole lot of, it's a timing thing, a whole lot of stuff. But yeah, I'm not opposed to it. I think at first, when the Eagles tried it and were successful, other teams thought it was kind of like a trick play. Like, ⁓ this is this random one-off thing they're going to do. And it became controversial when it worked and. Hilary: quarterbacks, athletic abilities, you know, a whole lot of, it's a timing thing, a whole lot of stuff. But yeah, I'm not opposed to it. I think at first, when the Eagles tried it and were successful, other teams thought it was kind of like a trick play. Like, ⁓ this is this random one-off thing they're going to do. And it became controversial when it worked and. Emily Schmidt: and alignment so you couldn't put all your players on one side of the ball to stack. Are you envisioning that? Yeah, I am envisioning that because you've got everyone spread out now across the width of the field instead of six or seven guys on one side. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So get not doing a running start for the plays where you're kicking it all the way down the field and Hilary: and alignment so you couldn't put all your players on one side of the ball to stack. Are you envisioning that? Yeah, I am envisioning that because you've got everyone spread out now across the width of the field instead of six or seven guys on one side. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So get not doing a running start for the plays where you're kicking it all the way down the field and Emily Schmidt: in New York watching games and they consult what's happening during the game. Okay. I don't know what the reason for this is but there was an incident do you remember the incident last year in Pittsburgh? ⁓ sure do with own with our with our prior receiver DK mad calf Pittsburgh home game DK plays for the Steelers now I think I remember that throughout Hilary: in New York watching games and they consult what's happening during the game. Okay. I don't know what the reason for this is but there was an incident do you remember the incident last year in Pittsburgh? ⁓ sure do with own with our with our prior receiver DK mad calf Pittsburgh home game DK plays for the Steelers now I think I remember that throughout Emily Schmidt: NFL games aren't like that. I've seen some college games like that and I'm not as interested. I guess I'm more of a chess match scenario fan. Hilary: NFL games aren't like that. I've seen some college games like that and I'm not as interested. I guess I'm more of a chess match scenario fan. Emily Schmidt: I don't have the numbers, over the course of the season that they first introduced it, they used it often and a huge success rate. And so I think that their use of it is tapered off now and their success in using it has tapered off, but it's still a viable play. And I would like to see other teams kind of taking another look at the rule book and seeing if there's other. Hilary: I don't have the numbers, over the course of the season that they first introduced it, they used it often and a huge success rate. And so I think that their use of it is tapered off now and their success in using it has tapered off, but it's still a viable play. And I would like to see other teams kind of taking another look at the rule book and seeing if there's other. Emily Schmidt: He doesn't have as many years in the league yet, doesn't have the all time thing, but ⁓ he generated a lot of calls. I thought that was kind of interesting too. So you think that's part of his game? Hilary: He doesn't have as many years in the league yet, doesn't have the all time thing, but ⁓ he generated a lot of calls. I thought that was kind of interesting too. So you think that's part of his game? Emily Schmidt: I really like it when both teams have to try really hard to figure out the opposing team and what's going to work for that particular day in that particular situation. Yeah. I think we're aligned. We feel the same way. right. So let's talk about evolution a little bit more in detail. We just talked about how they ⁓ made Hilary: I really like it when both teams have to try really hard to figure out the opposing team and what's going to work for that particular day in that particular situation. Yeah. I think we're aligned. We feel the same way. right. So let's talk about evolution a little bit more in detail. We just talked about how they ⁓ made Emily Schmidt: the course of the game he was being actively heckled by a fan in the lower seating there behind the bench. Hilary: the course of the game he was being actively heckled by a fan in the lower seating there behind the bench. Emily Schmidt: got ⁓ yards and ⁓ of runway get up speed for a collision, but on ⁓ onside kick, just seems... ⁓ is that really we needed to do? ⁓ Hilary: got ⁓ yards and ⁓ of runway get up speed for a collision, but on ⁓ onside kick, just seems... ⁓ is that really we needed to do? ⁓ Emily Schmidt: Yeah, you bet. Because, The number four guy was also a Dallas receiver. ⁓ So I think Dak is ⁓ using that. Yeah, right. I don't know what it's like to be heckled. I wouldn't like to be heckled. But DK is also known for having a short fuse. So he went over and talked with the guy and he did take a swing at the guy. OK, stands. OK, don't know if the guy deserved it or not. Doesn't matter. You can't do that. And the officials didn't see it. They didn't throw a flag. OK, rule because it's happening off the field. It's happening. OK, they didn't see it. Hilary: Yeah, right. I don't know what it's like to be heckled. I wouldn't like to be heckled. But DK is also known for having a short fuse. So he went over and talked with the guy and he did take a swing at the guy. OK, stands. OK, don't know if the guy deserved it or not. Doesn't matter. You can't do that. And the officials didn't see it. They didn't throw a flag. OK, rule because it's happening off the field. It's happening. OK, they didn't see it. Emily Schmidt: Well, I don't know. How did that rule change impact the success rate of the onside kick? the rule was implemented in 2018, it went down to about 8 or 9 % from 20%. So half. It cut the success rate in half. More than half. Hilary: Well, I don't know. How did that rule change impact the success rate of the onside kick? the rule was implemented in 2018, it went down to about 8 or 9 % from 20%. So half. It cut the success rate in half. More than half. Emily Schmidt: random unusual things out there that can be safely done to introduce new plays to the playbook. I will agree with you on it's legal and good for Philly for doing it. I have no problems with the fact that they do it. I just didn't like watching the play. And I will admit ⁓ that after did a little bit more research, I feel a little bit differently about it in that ⁓ the origins it were for safety. Hilary: random unusual things out there that can be safely done to introduce new plays to the playbook. I will agree with you on it's legal and good for Philly for doing it. I have no problems with the fact that they do it. I just didn't like watching the play. And I will admit ⁓ that after did a little bit more research, I feel a little bit differently about it in that ⁓ the origins it were for safety. Yeah, you bet. Because, The number three guy was also a Dallas receiver. ⁓ So I think Dak is ⁓ using that. Emily Schmidt: ⁓ Hilary: ⁓ Emily Schmidt: So in 2025, the most defensive past interference penalties drawn. Number one was C.D. Lamb. Number two was Jamar Chase. Number three, JSN for the Seahawks. Number four was George Pickens, who is also Dallas. And then Jerry Judy. So former Dallas. Yeah, yeah. Hilary: So in 2025, the most defensive past interference penalties drawn. Number one was C.D. Lamb. Number two was Jamar Chase. Number three, JSN for the Seahawks. Number four was George Pickens, who is also Dallas. And then Jerry Judy. So former Dallas. Yeah, yeah. Emily Schmidt: So it presumably if the officials in New York had seen it, they could have done something about it if they wanted to. Okay. ⁓ Okay. Well, that's a relevant example from last season. Hilary: So it presumably if the officials in New York had seen it, they could have done something about it if they wanted to. Okay. ⁓ Okay. Well, that's a relevant example from last season. Emily Schmidt: ⁓ interesting, okay, that it was actually safer to have more people in the pile than just a single person? Well, so before the rule change, runners couldn't be pushed forward, obviously. Right. ⁓ which apparently to more awkward pileups and players trying to drag or reach the ball on their own. ⁓ Hilary: ⁓ interesting, okay, that it was actually safer to have more people in the pile than just a single person? Well, so before the rule change, runners couldn't be pushed forward. Obviously. Right. ⁓ Which apparently to more awkward pileups and players trying to drag or reach the ball on their own. ⁓ Emily Schmidt: And I think it's part of their game plan because where I'm to go with this next is the total penalties by the team per year. There were 17 against the Cowboys, 13 for the Bengals, and the Giants have 12. So, you know, maybe those are the teams that are taking the deep shots in hopes of getting the penalties and it's working. I don't know. Didn't dig into the statistics by team on that, but I just thought it was kind of interesting. Yeah, I don't love. Hilary: And I think it's part of their game plan because where I'm to go with this next is the total penalties by the team per year. There were 17 against the Cowboys, 13 for the Bengals, and the Giants have 12. So, you know, maybe those are the teams that are taking the deep shots in hopes of getting the penalties and it's working. I don't know. Didn't dig into the statistics by team on that, but I just thought it was kind of interesting. Yeah, I don't love. Emily Schmidt: And then in 2024, they made more tweaks and the success rate dropped again down 4.7 to 6%. So it's basically just dead. I mean, it's not dead because one in, you know, four or five chances out of a hundred. But definitely more of a desperation last ditch attempt. We still see a few. Hilary: And then in 2024, they made more tweaks and the success rate dropped again down 4.7 to 6%. So it's basically just dead. I mean, it's not dead because one in, you know, four or five chances out of a hundred. But definitely more of a desperation last ditch attempt. We still see a few. Emily Schmidt: ⁓ In early days, had play both offense and defense. ⁓ my Really? Hilary: ⁓ In early days, had play both offense and defense. ⁓ my Really? Emily Schmidt: So allowing teammates to push legally, it reduced the likelihood of dangerous uncontrolled scrambles and encouraged organized collective forward movement rather than individual contortions to gain a yard. And also said that before 2005, it wasn't consistently. ⁓ Hilary: So allowing teammates to push legally, it reduced the likelihood of dangerous uncontrolled scrambles and encouraged organized collective forward movement rather than individual contortions to gain a yard. And also said that before 2005, it wasn't consistently. ⁓ Emily Schmidt: Wow, okay, so you much smaller roster then I guess. So in the 40s and 50s this is where substitution rules were eased and they allowed for specialized units for offensive defense which I think is ⁓ a big I cannot imagine. ⁓ Hilary: Wow, okay, so you much smaller roster then I guess. So in the 40s and 50s this is where substitution rules were eased and they allowed for specialized units for offensive defense which I think is ⁓ a big I cannot imagine. ⁓ Emily Schmidt: The idea of that being a play where the play is throw the ball up and see if you can get past interference. Like, right. Just as a football fan. don't love idea of that. mean, of course, unless it's my team and we pull that off and that helps us out. Right. ⁓ From purist perspective, I just don't love the idea of that. OK. ⁓ Hilary: The idea of that being a play where the play is throw the ball up and see if you can get past interference. Like, right. Just as a football fan. don't love idea of that. mean, of course, unless it's my team and we pull that off and that helps us out. Right. ⁓ From purist perspective, I just don't love the idea of that. OK. ⁓ Emily Schmidt: or if it's still an opportunity for the NFL officiating department to I don't know I don't want to say overreach but get more involved in the game I have no idea we'll have to see how it plays out okay okay well that could be an interesting one Hilary: or if it's still an opportunity for the NFL officiating department to I don't know I don't want to say overreach but get more involved in the game I have no idea we'll have to see how it plays out okay okay well that could be an interesting one Emily Schmidt: We still see a few, but when you're talking about the NFL making changes for more exciting plays, this is not an exciting play anymore. Okay, rate this. Are you ready to throw up a fan experience yellow card on this one? Well, ⁓ Yes. a loss ⁓ to me, to having the onside kick as a real thing. And I did a lot of ⁓ searching, Hilary: We still see a few, but when you're talking about the NFL making changes for more exciting plays, this is not an exciting play anymore. Okay, rate this. Are you ready to throw up a fan experience yellow card on this one? Well, ⁓ Yes. a loss ⁓ to me, to having the onside kick as a real thing. And I did a lot of ⁓ searching, Emily Schmidt: quality football being that great if the same people were on the field. Hilary: quality football being that great if the same people were on the field. Emily Schmidt: So some people were kind of doing it and it wasn't really being called consistently, which is not good for the game. So they just decided to make it. They thought it was safer and it was more consistent. I think if it was something we saw all the time on the field, it just doesn't look like football to me and I would hate to see more of it. If it's an occasional play that comes up, you know. Hilary: So some people were kind of doing it and it wasn't really being called consistently, which is not good for the game. So they just decided to make it. They thought it was safer and it was more consistent. I think if it was something we saw all the time on the field, it just doesn't look like football to me and I would hate to see more of it. If it's an occasional play that comes up, you know, like I said, occasionally, ⁓ I'm ⁓ Emily Schmidt: Something else that's super interesting that I think makes past interference controversial is it is not reviewable or challengeable. So that's the officiating team makes the call and that's the call. Hilary: Something else that's super interesting that I think makes past interference controversial is it is not reviewable or challengeable. So that's the officiating team makes the call and that's the call. Emily Schmidt: But also roughing the passer penalties were introduced in the 40s and 50s. Can you imagine life without roughing the passer? No. No, I can't. I there's times where it's called and you're like, come on. But can you imagine if it just didn't exist? Be a little bit more like a rugby match, maybe. I mean, we do need to protect the quarterbacks. The game is not as much fun if you could just hit them however you want to hit them whenever you want to hit them. Hilary: But also roughing the passer penalties were introduced in the 40s and 50s. Can you imagine life without roughing the passer? No. No, I can't. I there's times where it's called and you're like, come on. But can you imagine if it just didn't exist? Be a little bit more like a rugby match, maybe. I mean, we do need to protect the quarterbacks. The game is not as much fun if you could just hit them however you want to hit them whenever you want to hit them. Emily Schmidt: on on and how they've and they've definitely decreased. ⁓ Okay, that's a good thing. But haven't... Hilary: on on and how they've and they've definitely decreased. ⁓ Okay, that's a good thing. But haven't... Emily Schmidt: It would just be, we would just be going into such detail of every little thing. It would drive us all crazy. I don't know, what do you think? Do you want it to be reviewable? Well, I'm kind of torn on this because not only is there the, when the call is made that you think, huh, was that really a call? But there's also the missed call. Hilary: It would just be, we would just be going into such detail of every little thing, it would drive us all crazy. I don't know, what do you think? Do you want it to be reviewable? Well, I'm kind of torn on this because not only is there the, when the call is made that you think, huh, was that really a call? But there's also the missed call. Emily Schmidt: And face mask rules started emerging. like, you know, you can't grab somebody and pull them down by their face mask. In the 60s, past interference was defined. And again, I'm just thinking about, so there was life before past interference? So what was gameplay like then? Like people were just tackling somebody as the ball was in the air? Hilary: And face mask rules started emerging. like, you know, you can't grab somebody and pull them down by their face mask. In the 60s, past interference was defined. And again, I'm just thinking about, so there was life before past interference? So what was gameplay like then? Like people were just tackling somebody as the ball was in the air? Emily Schmidt: But actually, again, like I said, I'm kind of okay with it because the amount that they use it is less. It's not as bothersome to me anymore. Hilary: But actually, again, like I said, I'm kind of okay with it because the amount that they use it is less. It's not as bothersome to me anymore. Emily Schmidt: I think they're worth it, even though they make it little bit less exciting as well. I think it's worth it for safety, but for onside kick, I'm ⁓ loving it. Hilary: I think they're worth it, even though they make it little bit less exciting as well. I think it's worth it for safety, but for onside kick, I'm ⁓ loving it. Emily Schmidt: Yeah, you know and there were a couple using last year as an example. There were a couple of games late in the season Last year where ⁓ lack of a call Made difference right and one game that comes to mind is the Rams versus the Falcons ⁓ and was late in the game and the Rams had the ball and threw it up ⁓ and Hilary: Yeah, you know and there were a couple using last year as an example. There were a couple of games late in the season Last year where ⁓ lack of a call Made difference right and one game that comes to mind is the Rams versus the Falcons ⁓ and was late in the game and the Rams had the ball and threw it up ⁓ and Emily Schmidt: Yeah, I don't know. It'd be interesting to go back and watch some old tapes sometime. I know. I was thinking the same thing. And I know there's a lot to complain about with PI over the years and just how hard it's become for defensive players to defend. But to not have it at all doesn't make sense to me. And then in the 70s, there were more. Hilary: Yeah, I don't know. It'd be interesting to go back and watch some old tapes sometime. I know. I was thinking the same thing. And I know there's a lot to complain about with PI over the years and just how hard it's become for defensive players to defend. But to not have it at all doesn't make sense to me. And then in the 70s, there were more. Emily Schmidt: when you watch the tape it's blatant. I don't have a problem with that. Hilary: when you watch the tape it's blatant. I don't have a problem with that. Emily Schmidt: me to give as an example right but the Falcons should have been called it would have put the Rams on about the 10 yard line with time to kick a field goal or do something to maybe tie the game and then another one was Patriots versus the in week 16 again the Ravens should have been called the Patriots went on to win that game but it was a Hilary: me to give as an example right but the Falcons should have been called it would have put the Rams on about the 10 yard line with time to kick a field goal or do something to maybe tie the game and then another one was Patriots versus the in week 16 again the Ravens should have been called the Patriots went on to win that game but it was a Emily Schmidt: restrictions on defensive backs and what they can do they can't bump receivers past five yards and also this is when goalposts were moved to the end line so before 1974 the goalpost was at the beginning of the end zone Hilary: restrictions on defensive backs and what they can do they can't bump receivers past five yards and also this is when goalposts were moved to the end line so before 1974 the goalpost was at the beginning of the end zone Emily Schmidt: Like the front of the end zone. Okay. That sounds really dangerous. That does sound kind of dangerous and I guess from the kicking game standpoint too, the field goal was right there on the goal line. So a closer. Yeah. A easier. But yeah, can you imagine like running in for a touchdown and worrying about whether you're to run into the goalpost? I just, again, I think all of these changes are good is what I'm saying. I'm in favor of all of these changes at this point. Hilary: Like the front of the end zone. Okay. That sounds really dangerous. That does sound kind of dangerous and I guess from the kicking game standpoint too, the field goal was right there on the goal line. So a closer. Yeah. A easier. But yeah, can you imagine like running in for a touchdown and worrying about whether you're to run into the goalpost? I just, again, I think all of these changes are good is what I'm saying. I'm in favor of all of these changes at this point. Emily Schmidt: Controversial play and at a kind of pivotal point in the game So I'm sure there's lots more depending on what team you support or don't support Yeah, so I mean of course you want you want the calls to be right ⁓ for some reason I'm hesitating towards making it reviewable. ⁓ just feel like it'd be ⁓ a big mess, Hilary: Controversial play and at a kind of pivotal point in the game So I'm sure there's lots more depending on what team you support or don't support Yeah, so I mean of course you want you want the calls to be right ⁓ for some reason I'm hesitating towards making it reviewable. ⁓ just feel like it'd be ⁓ a big mess, Emily Schmidt: 80s you've got some instant replay. Well, I think it existed before then but you had more expanded like you could have challenges. Overtime and regular season was introduced in the 80s. So not like a ton of things happening in the 80s. 90s. Okay, this one surprised me. Two point conversion was officially adopted in 1994 and I actually don't remember life before the two point conversion. Hilary: 80s you've got some instant replay. Well, I think it existed before then but you had more expanded like you could have challenges. Overtime and regular season was introduced in the 80s. So not like a ton of things happening in the 80s. 90s. Okay, this one surprised me. Two point conversion was officially adopted in 1994 and I actually don't remember life before the two point conversion. Emily Schmidt: And the other thing that's kind interesting that I hadn't thought when I started looking at this is there's ⁓ offensive past interference too, which means that... ⁓ Hilary: And the other thing that's kind interesting that I hadn't thought when I started looking at this is there's ⁓ offensive past interference too, which means that... ⁓ Emily Schmidt: You know, the ball is aired ⁓ and it becomes, usually what's happening is it becomes clear that the defender's gonna make the interception. So the intended receiver ⁓ something to defend against the interception. In essence, usually it's a blatant shove off or it's a. Hilary: You know, the ball is aired ⁓ and it becomes, usually what's happening is it becomes clear that the defender's gonna make the interception. So the intended receiver ⁓ something to defend against the interception. In essence, usually it's a blatant shove off or it's a. Emily Schmidt: But not sure that I do either. wasn't a big football fan until probably around 2000 or so. that would sense. You remember it. I was watching football. Not to date myself, but way before then, but I don't I don't remember the introduction of it. I think it's a great, exciting ⁓ for game. Hilary: But not sure that I do either. wasn't a big football fan until probably around 2000 or so. that would sense. You remember it. I was watching football. Not to date myself, but way before then, but I don't I don't remember the introduction of it. I think it's a great, exciting ⁓ for game. Emily Schmidt: you know, tangling of a hand fighting, extreme hand fighting, whatever. That doesn't happen as much. think that happens. I love statistics. I saw maybe twice per team across the season. So it's not near as common, but it is a call. I think my problem with past interference is just it's hard to know what is past interference as a casual fan. I mean, there's some things that are just obvious. Hilary: you know, tangling of a hand fighting, extreme hand fighting, whatever. That doesn't happen as much. think that happens. I love statistics. I saw maybe twice per team across the season. So it's not near as common, but it is a call. I think my problem with past interference is just it's hard to know what is past interference as a casual fan. I mean, there's some things that are just obvious. Emily Schmidt: 2000s, interesting point? There's just more clarification ⁓ on the hits low. So safety rules. Somewhere in there, the coaches challenge came in too, right? Right around the late and late 90s into 2000. I do remember the rules for that. Yes, late 90s. So but by 2000, we're a little bit more about safety. Hilary: 2000s, interesting point? There's just more clarification ⁓ on the hits low. So safety rules. Somewhere in there, the coaches challenge came in too, right? Right around the late and late 90s into 2000. I do remember the rules for that. Yes, late 90s. So but by 2000, we're a little bit more about safety. Emily Schmidt: You have to sort of rely on experts to tell you sometimes. Right. Those experts that come on TV to explain, yeah, this little thing happened here and it is or isn't. I don't know. I just think that that's ⁓ part that I don't like about it. ⁓ There are a lot of rules about it for defensive pass interference. The rules apply from when the ball is thrown. Hilary: You have to sort of rely on experts to tell you sometimes. Right. Those experts that come on TV to explain, yeah, this little thing happened here and it is or isn't. I don't know. I just think that that's ⁓ part that I don't like about it. ⁓ There are a lot of rules about it for defensive pass interference. The rules apply from when the ball is thrown. Emily Schmidt: The 2010s era kickoffs, there's a lot happening around the kickoffs from this point forward. So extra point was moved back. Do remember when the extra point was moved back? I do remember that. ⁓ remember that. just making all the extra points, so think they wanted to make it a little bit more challenging, and I did not pull up stats on... Hilary: The 2010s era kickoffs, there's a lot happening around the kickoffs from this point forward. So extra point was moved back. Do remember when the extra point was moved back? I do remember that. ⁓ remember that. just making all the extra points, so think they wanted to make it a little bit more challenging, and I did not pull up stats on... Emily Schmidt: opposed to ⁓ the ball is snapped, right? So, ⁓ there are rules about how far off the line of scrimmage ⁓ can push, shove, block, hand fight, you know, all those kinds of things too. I don't know if we wanna ⁓ ⁓ deep into it today, but Hilary: opposed to ⁓ the ball is snapped, right? So, ⁓ there are rules about how far off the line of scrimmage ⁓ can push, shove, block, hand fight, you know, all those kinds of things too. I don't know if we wanna ⁓ ⁓ deep into it today, but the the rate at which people make it but I know it decreased I can now remember seeing people not make it and then the tush push became legal we're going to talk a little bit more about that later Emily Schmidt: the the rate at which people make it but I know it decreased I can now remember seeing people not make it and then the tush push became legal we're going to talk a little bit more about that later From a fan experience, I'm green to yellow on this one. I think there's room for clarity of what exactly it is. And I think there's maybe some room for review or coaches challenge. Hilary: From a fan experience, I'm green to yellow on this one. I think there's room for clarity of what exactly it is. And I think there's maybe some room for review or coaches challenge. Expanded use of centralized replay officials, so people from New York calling and making adjustments to calls, on-site kick restrictions. So that's like a, a very brief history of rules for the NFL. ⁓ The TLDR is just ⁓ early days, rough, simple. Emily Schmidt: after the call. Well, since you mentioned green, yellow, do we want to wrap up and rate? ⁓ sure. Or do you have more PI? No, let's do it. Let's wrap it up. OK. Hilary: after the call. Well, since you mentioned green, yellow, do we want to wrap up and rate? ⁓ sure. Or do you have more PI? No, let's do it. Let's wrap it up. OK. Emily Schmidt: on-site kick restrictions. So that's like a, a very brief history of rules for the NFL. ⁓ The TLDR is just ⁓ early days, rough, simple, not a lot of rules. Mid-century, the passing game was encouraged and the modern era is more safety first. maybe we should remind people of our rating in case they didn't catch our first podcast. ⁓ green, red, green generally met expectations or objectives. It doesn't mean everything's perfect, but everything is generally okay or trending in the right direction. Hilary: maybe we should remind people of our rating in case they didn't catch our first podcast. ⁓ green, red, green generally met expectations or objectives. It doesn't mean everything's perfect, but everything is generally okay or trending in the right direction. Emily Schmidt: and pace and viewer experience considered. a lot of tech coming into the officiating ⁓ ⁓ the monitoring of the players and injuries and all that kind of stuff. Mostly positive, I think. Interesting to see as we go forward if there'll be more rules governing the use of technology. Hilary: There's a lot of tech coming into the officiating and also the monitoring of the players and injuries and all that kind of stuff. Mostly positive, I think. Interesting to see as we go forward if there'll be more rules governing the use of technology. Emily Schmidt: to red and then we'll go yellows in the middle red fell way short of expectations or objectives major concerns about the trend So yellows somewhere in between It either fell short, but not a major concern or there's a potential for the wrong direction Hilary: to red and then we'll go yellows in the middle red fell way short of expectations or objectives major concerns about the trend So yellows somewhere in between It either fell short, but not a major concern or there's a potential for the wrong direction Emily Schmidt: that's just generally what the ratings mean, but we can make them mean whatever we want so for The of the NFL rules and then we do this from the owners perspective players perspective and fans We are not owners or players. We're just guessing right, but we can definitely rate from a fan's perspective ⁓ Hilary: that's just generally what the ratings mean, but we can make them mean whatever we want so for The of the NFL rules and then we do this from the owners perspective players perspective and fans We are not owners or players. We're just guessing right, but we can definitely rate from a fan's perspective ⁓ Emily Schmidt: So from the owners, would say, my opinion, they're green from a rules perspective. They didn't change a lot this year. So it must feel pretty good. I would think that they're pretty contented with the way things are going. Yeah, same for players. What do you think? I was going to write them green. Yeah, I think there's green. That's probably, Hilary: So from the owners, would say, my opinion, they're green from a rules perspective. They didn't change a lot this year. So it must feel pretty good. I would think that they're pretty contented with the way things are going. Yeah, same for players. What do you think? I was going to write them green. Yeah, I think there's green. That's probably, Emily Schmidt: As an overarching state of the rules, yeah. Yeah, I mean, do think back to, I know Richard Sherman, who's one of my favorite players, as a defensive player, I know he's complained a lot about rules being more in favor of offense, and I'm sure that he doesn't love that. And I don't know if I ever got a chance to sit down with him and have a conversation whether he would change rules or not. I have no idea. Hilary: As an overarching state of the rules, yeah. Yeah, I mean, do think back to, I know Richard Sherman, who's one of my favorite players, as a defensive player, I know he's complained a lot about rules being more in favor of offense, and I'm sure that he doesn't love that. And I don't know if I ever got a chance to sit down with him and have a conversation whether he would change rules or not. I have no idea. Emily Schmidt: I am going yellow only because the death of the onside kick is just killing me. I hate that it's not part of the game. It really just isn't part of the game anymore, not in a meaningful way. And I just think it really detracts. Not red, I wouldn't rate it red. But it's of a flag for me that I just didn't want to give him a green pass. What about you? OK, I think I'm on the... ⁓ Hilary: I am going yellow only because the death of the onside kick is just killing me. I hate that it's not part of the game. It really just isn't part of the game anymore, not in a meaningful way. And I just think it really detracts. Not red, I wouldn't rate it red. But it's of a flag for me that I just didn't want to give him a green pass. What about you? OK, I think I'm on the... ⁓ Emily Schmidt: Boy, what color is it when he makes green and yellow together? didn't get that choice. I'm on the yellow edge for the fan perspective for the rules too. I think more based on thoughts on PI, my thoughts on officiating in general and oversight. Hilary: Boy, what color is it when he makes green and yellow together? You didn't get that choice. I'm on the yellow edge for the fan perspective for the roles too. I think more based on my thoughts on PI, my thoughts on officiating in general and oversight. Emily Schmidt: I'm also not sure I'm totally in alignment with the use of a lot of the spot tech. We didn't even talk about this today, but the electronic spot technology and that kind of stuff, I think that detracts from the game. So I'm gonna give them a yellow room for improvement. Hilary: I'm also not sure I'm totally in alignment with the use of a lot of the spot tech. We didn't even talk about this today, but the electronic spot technology and that kind of stuff, I think that detracts from the game. So I'm gonna give them a yellow room for improvement. Emily Schmidt: OK, I think we've wrapped up. Hilary: OK, I think we've wrapped up. Emily Schmidt: rules. Anything else? Nope, that's it. Hilary: rules. Anything else? Nope, that's it.