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James Katz : Preserving Film History · Movie Meltdown

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I'm Joe Alves, and you're listening to Movie Mountain. Movie Mountain.
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  Speaker 2: It's showtime.
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  Speaker 3: The following feature has been rated R by the Motion
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Picture Association of America.
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  Speaker 2: Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million.
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  Speaker 2: What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown.
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  Speaker 1: I'm Brian, and this week we have a very special guest.
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  Speaker 1: James Katz has not only spent years working in the
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: film industry as a producer and executive producer on many projects,
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  Speaker 1: but more than likely his true legacy will be the
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  Speaker 1: impact he has made on film restoration. James is the
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  Speaker 1: former president and founder of the Universal Pictures Classics Division,
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  Speaker 1: and he started in the early 80s by working on
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  Speaker 1: preserving and re-releasing five Alfred Hitchcock classics. And that led
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to sort of a call to action for studios and
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  Speaker 1: filmmakers everywhere to take notice that If they didn't take
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  Speaker 1: care of their classic film properties, they may not survive.
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  Speaker 1: Now that endeavor led to amazing restorations on a string
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  Speaker 1: of classic films, like Spartacus, Lawrence of Arabia, My Fair Lady,
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  Speaker 1: The Godfather 1 and 2, and of course Hitchcock's landmark
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  Speaker 1: films Rear Window and Vertigo. Which is what brings us
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  Speaker 1: together this week, as James is here for the Preserving
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  Speaker 1: Hitchcock series at the Speed Museum in Louisville, where he'll
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  Speaker 1: be giving post-screening discussions for both Vertigo and Rear Window.
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  Speaker 1: But that's just scratching the surface of this amazing life.
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  Speaker 1: So I say let's delve into things a little more
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  Speaker 1: and get the story directly from him as we sit
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  Speaker 1: down with James Katz.
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  Speaker 2: It's a little confusing what I actually do. And I
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  Speaker 2: think that, you know, I've spoken for many years about this.
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  Speaker 2: And it, you know, it's really trying to find, talking
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  Speaker 2: more about restoring and preserving films. Yeah. You know, and
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  Speaker 2: not being confused with having made Vertigo or Rear Window.
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  Speaker 1: That's, yeah, I guess with a lot of people it's, well.
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  Speaker 2: But it's, I think, you know, I'll take responsibility or
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  Speaker 2: credit for saving them. you know, when they needed saving,
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  Speaker 2: you know.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think that's a huge part of it.
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  Speaker 1: I'll definitely get to that. And, yeah, I guess we
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  Speaker 1: are getting to a weird area where there's normal people
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  Speaker 1: now who may not immediately know Hitchcock, which that seems
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  Speaker 1: like a crime at this point.
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  Speaker 2: Are you recording this?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's up and running, so yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, many times, I speak at
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  Speaker 2: universities from time to time, and we run the films online,
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  Speaker 2: And I spoke, you know, about a couple of months
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  Speaker 2: ago at the University of California at Santa Barbara, which
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: is a sophisticated sort of film-oriented school in many ways.
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  Speaker 2: And the theater there, the Pollock Theater, is named after
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Tom Pollock and his father. And Tom Pollock was the
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  Speaker 2: chairman of Universal for several years back in the, I
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: guess the 80s, 90s, in there somewhere. And we spoke there,
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  Speaker 2: and I asked, after the screening, I said, how many
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  Speaker 2: people have seen Vertigo for the first time on the
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  Speaker 2: big screen? And the whole 450 people, they all raised
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  Speaker 2: their hand pretty much, except for a few really old,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: so old people like me. And then I suddenly... And
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: then Tom said, he says, well, how many people have
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: seen Vertigo for the first time? And the same maybe
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: 350 people came, raised their hands. And people don't know
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  Speaker 2: who Jimmy Stewart is. People don't know, certainly don't know
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  Speaker 2: who Kim Novak is. Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, we're losing that old, that crossover generation, I guess. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: we're bringing in.
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  Speaker 2: So the one thing that's relevant... to all of this
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  Speaker 2: and obviously the reaction after seeing the films is pretty
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  Speaker 2: interesting you know it's very interesting especially the questions I
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  Speaker 2: ask and I also don't pretend to be a cineast
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  Speaker 2: in the true sense of the word you know I
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  Speaker 2: mean I obviously know Vertigo and Rear Window and Spartacus
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  Speaker 2: and My Fair Lady and To Be Alive.
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  Speaker 4: And More Than You Wanted and Lawrence of Arabia we
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  Speaker 4: know them all Bob and I my partner we know
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  Speaker 4: them all intimately you know But we, you know, I
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  Speaker 4: try not to deal with how many meanings the film
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  Speaker 4: has and whether Chris Marker thinks one thing and Peter
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: Bogdanovich thinks another thing.
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  Speaker 2: And some of the interpretations are outrageous. And you try
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  Speaker 2: and say, look, take it for what it is. And
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  Speaker 2: Hitchcock was pretty much like that. He was like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: he had a way about him and he had a
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  Speaker 2: mentality and the sensibility that's in all of his films.
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  Speaker 2: But he doesn't, I don't know, didn't analyze them to
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  Speaker 2: the extent that a lot of his audiences do. But
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  Speaker 2: that happens with writers. You know, writers, when they write,
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  Speaker 2: don't always, you know, it takes a little distance. And creating.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: classes around them as a whole, almost where you need
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: to come up with subcontext. To have something more to
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: talk about than maybe you even need to talk about.
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  Speaker 2: I'll tell you an interesting thing. I went to Ohio
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: State University and I had a class with Robert Frost.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: This is in the 50s. I usually say this. I
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: don't want to repeat pretty much what I'm going to
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: say there on Wednesday and Thursday when we show the movies.
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  Speaker 2: And it's very offensive to some people. But Robert Frost,
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  Speaker 2: he was like a three- or four-day course, and there
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  Speaker 2: were some really unbelievable people who would come in and
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  Speaker 2: do these short courses, James Thurber, Frost, Eleanor Roosevelt. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: they would have these people in for a while, and
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  Speaker 2: it was great. Anyway, so somebody asked Robert Frost how
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: many meanings his poetry had. And he said, well, he said,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: you can bend birches to and fro. He says, that's
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: what we did. We got up to the top of
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: the trees and we bent the birches to and fro.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: He said, I guess you could tell, you know, literally.
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  Speaker 2: And then I guess you could tell a little bit
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  Speaker 2: about my life because in New England and the winters and,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: you know, and all of the reality of my youth
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: and such. He says, so maybe one or two, and
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: maybe there's a third meaning to my poetry. He says,
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  Speaker 2: but I leave all the rest to high school English teachers. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And who, and he qualified, and he said, come up
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: with some very interesting concepts. So I think, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and I always say that because there's so many interpretations
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: of Hitchcock, and yet you know about his sensibility. You
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  Speaker 2: know how, you know, his... take on the macabre you
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: know his take on Bond certainly at this point you
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: know his meticulousness and his preparation for his films in
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: fact somebody saw him someone saw him sitting on the
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: set of Vertigo in the corner and not doing anything
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: and all of this was going on around him in
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: all sorts of tumult and such And someone said, so
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: what are you thinking about right now? What shot are
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: you thinking about right now? And he turned to me
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: and said, what do you mean, what shot? I'm thinking
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: about my next bill.
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  Speaker 5: Of course.
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  Speaker 1: I finished this one.
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  Speaker 2: I've already made this one.
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  Speaker 1: In my head, a long time ago.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Well, not only in his head, but in his storyboards. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: that's true. He drew his storyboards. Everything was downtown. to
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: the minute, to the second, to the costumes, to the sets.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: And he was so involved in it that he really,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I think, did have an idea. But he hated shooting
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: on location. Hated that. There's many stories about him on Vertigo, particularly.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: where he would pull up and somebody would say he'd
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: pull up are you familiar with the film?
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah I mean you never know obviously.
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  Speaker 2: So what happens they pull up in front of Scotty's
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: apartment you know And I'm hearing this not from the internet.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I met Doc Erickson. I knew all those
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: people who, you know, people who worked on the films.
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  Speaker 2: Not Doc Erickson, I'm sorry. Herbie Coleman, who was his producer.
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  Speaker 2: And Doc was also doing that. But Herbie was the
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  Speaker 2: real producer of all the films, the line producer, whatever
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: you want to call it. And he pulled up in
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  Speaker 2: front of the real Scotty's apartment in San Francisco, and
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: it was raining. And he, he looked out and, and,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: and Herbie said, he says, Hitch, I just got, uh,
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  Speaker 2: I got the master shot. And Hitch pushes down the
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  Speaker 2: window on the limo. And he looks up, he says, great.
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  Speaker 2: He says, can you build this? And Herbie looks at
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  Speaker 2: him and he says, yeah, we can build this. And
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  Speaker 2: the next shot of Kim Novak pulling up in the
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  Speaker 2: white coat, uh, in front of the apartment where she
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: gets out of her car and runs up.
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  Speaker 1: It's all in studio. Can you build me the Golden
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  Speaker 1: Gate Bridge?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Well, look what he built for a rear window. Yeah, definitely.
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  Speaker 1: An entire neighborhood almost.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you mentioned you going to school. And
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  Speaker 1: I usually try to– it's funny because I have talked
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  Speaker 1: to a lot of actors and a lot of directors–
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  Speaker 1: I haven't ended up with a lot of people. I've
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: done directors who produce, but ended up doing more producing
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  Speaker 1: or restoration. So I kind of still want to sort
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: of check in with where you started from. So where
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: were you born originally?
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  Speaker 2: I was originally born in New York City and lived
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: in Brooklyn for a time until I was about, until
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I was, I don't know how, this is really boring stuff,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: but I mean, until I was really young, and this
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: was like in year one. So I moved up to
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Westchester County, went to Scardale High School, and ended up
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  Speaker 2: at Ohio State for various and sundry reasons.
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  Speaker 1: Had you already, again, looking back now, because we kind
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: of start to find our path even when we don't
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  Speaker 1: realize we are. Were you already interested in the arts?
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  Speaker 1: Were you Immediately, like, drawn to film? Like, what was
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  Speaker 1: it originally for you?
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  Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time at the Lowe's in
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: the Archeo in White Plains, New York. And various and
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: sundry art houses, quote, where we would see some pretty,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: you know, pretty interesting stuff. You know, and this was
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: in the 50s, and even to the point where we
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: would see I Am Curious Yellow, you know, which was
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: the first swedish film where where where you could.
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: See naked people you know groundbreaking you know so uh
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  Speaker 6: but i mean that was the atmosphere i grew up
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  Speaker 6: in and uh and uh subsequently after ohio state came
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  Speaker 6: to new york and uh gave a few years to
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: my country yeah that's.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: That's an important step obviously.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: To be in the military i ended up uh um
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I know, it's sort of a funny story because the
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: theater producer, David Merrick, I don't know if you've ever
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: heard of him, but he produced Hello Dolly, the original
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: cast of Hello Dolly, and lots of majors. He came
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: out to Ohio State, and I was one of the
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: editors of The Lantern, which was the school newspaper. I
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: was one of the photo editors. We had many in
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Sundry over the years. And so any sort of celebrities
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: or any major people like I mentioned, Eleanor Roosevelt or
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Hubert Humphrey or politicians or arts people or sports people...
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  Speaker 2: I would photograph them for the paper, or I would
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: be around. I'd be in the mix.
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  Speaker 1: You'd make sure you were there.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I would take the pictures that ran in the paper,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: and then I'd go back and... Anyway, to make a
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: long story short, I meet David Merrick, and there weren't
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: too many people from New York at Ohio State. And we...
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: He would say, you know, very magnanimously, anybody I can
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: help when they come back, if they come to New York,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: not come back to New York because nobody was going
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: back to New York, they were going to New York,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: let me know and just come by the office. There
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: were no texts, obviously, no emails. I mean, you know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: you're a college kid, you know. So anyway, I come
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: back and try to get into his office on 40,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I think it's on 44th or 45th Street in New York.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: And he didn't know me from a hole. He didn't
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: know me from a hole in the wall. And I'm
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: hanging out there. It was like November, cold. And I'd
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: go back. And I was up staying with my parents
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: when I got out of the military. And my dad said,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: what do you got? I'll give you six weeks and
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: then you're out. Then you're out. So... I went to
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: David Merrick's office, and I was pretty persistent, and I
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: got to know his assistant or his secretary, as we
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: called them in those days, but someone had been with
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: him 100 years. And I guess she took pity on me,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: and she finally got me in, and I met him,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: and he was very nice. We talked, and he was
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: a little crazy. And I finally said, he said, I'll
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: tell you what, I'll give you a job on the
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: road company of Beckett. Beckett never went out. And here
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I am. Six weeks is three weeks and two weeks.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: And my dad was sort of serious. I took him seriously.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like, oh, come on, I'm going to go
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: like my kids do with me. Kick me out on
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: the street. Come on. My kids today would say they
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: would know that I would never really mean six weeks.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: They would mean six months. That would mean six months.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: 18 years or so, and then I'll be out, I swear.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: 18 years, exactly, exactly. So I don't know what possessed
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: me to do this or to be so ingenious because
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: it was really by necessity. I went to Times Square.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: It was just pissing with snow. I mean, it was nasty.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: And I looked around. There was the Rialto Theater and
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: the Astor Theater. There's like five or six theaters around
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Times Square. And I was looking around to see what.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Company had the most pictures out in the theaters and
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: i kept seeing united artists presents united artists presents you
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: know and i looked up where united artists was and
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: it was really right on time almost on time square
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: it was on seventh avenue which was one street behind
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: and i went up there into the what do you
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: what do you call it it wasn't called human services
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: then it was called um I don't know, the employment office.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: It was called, you know, anyway. So I asked if
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: there were any jobs. And I told them that I
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: was an English and journalism major at Ohio State. And,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: you know, I just, you know, I remember I was
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: wearing the pants of my Army uniform. Because, you know,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: like khakis, you know. Anyway, so they sent me up
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: to meet. Meet the head of the writing department in
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: what they called publicity in those days. And the guy
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: gave me a job. And I was writing captions for
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: all the stills coming in off the films, you know,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: knocking off the... He'd write a picture, this is Angela
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Lansbury and Frank Sinatra in John Frankenheimer's Manchurian Candidate, you know,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: which is... being shot in Hollywood.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: To go out in, like, press kits and stuff?
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they would go out in press kits and stuff,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: or you'd plant them in magazines and newspapers and stuff.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: You'd have to go out and really do that. And
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: there was always a tagline that Manchurian Candidate is a
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: so-and-so production distributed by United Artists in theaters June 25th
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: or whatever. Yeah. And so I was around all that
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: all the time, and I didn't really know anything else.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, I worked at internships at a lot of newspapers,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the Akron Beacon Journal, the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Columbus Dispatch,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: all the Ohio papers, which were pretty formidable. Toledo Blade,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I think, was one of them. And so we had
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: a really pretty good week here, two weeks there, three
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: weeks there. And so I knew how the newspapers worked.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: And it worked very well for me because obviously in
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: New York there were like 11 or 12 newspapers. But
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I knew who, I knew what a managing editor was.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I knew what the assignment desk was. I knew what
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: the night photo editor did, you know.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: The real process of how it all works.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: And I knew enough to bring a bottle of Wild
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Turkey to the United Press night desk. And after we
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: had a premiere and there were pictures of an actor
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: or an actress going in on what we know as
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: the red carpet today, you'd take a picture.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Then it.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Was Ava Gardner or it was It was, you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: people like that, you know, of that. Frank Sinatra was very,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, so many of these actors.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: And you just go in and you sit there and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: drink with them until they put something on the wire. Actually,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: put it on the wire. Once it was on the
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: wire and you hear, and once that picture disappeared, be
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: out of there. Then we'd be on to the next one.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: So all those newspapers, but you were never drawn to
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the writing part of it. It was always the other angles.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: More or less. Well, no, I would write press kits.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I'd write biographies of actors. I'd write synopsis of the films.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I'd write captions for the photographs. And then, you know,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: it was sort of interesting because you'd put You know,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: there were magazines like the old Parade magazine or there
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: were magazines like that. This Week was one of the magazines.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: And what they would do is you would put two
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: or three photographs together to tell a little sort of
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: story about how terrible it was in the jungle, you know,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: in the jungles of Hawaii, you know, where they were
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: shooting some movie, you know, and how... they were all
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: drinking out of coconut shells because... Anyway, you'd make up anything.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: And it didn't matter really what you said because people
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: like to look at the pictures and they want to
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: know who they were. And obviously, when you do that
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: and you do it enough... you know, people are influenced.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: They know it's called branding today. Definitely. But, you know,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: it was very effective. That's how it worked. And then
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: there were kits, press kits went out all over the
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: country because there were 10 or 12, you know, major markets.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: But anyway, doing that, You see a lot of movies,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: you know, and you get an idea of where the
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: negatives from the set goes. You know, what happens to
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: all those negatives from all the pictures, special photographers that
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: are on the set? Where do they go? So, United Artists,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: they were archives, you know, a mile long. From pictures
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: from 1958, 56 or 58, in there somewhere, because that's
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: when this new group took over United Artists, and it
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: was the first... distribution and financing company whose executives absolutely
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: gave complete creative autonomy to directors and screenwriters. And all
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: they wanted was on a certain date a film. They
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: obviously had situations where they would have comments on the
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: cuts and things, but But, you know, they never, ever,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: never influenced any of the creative people. And as a
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: result of that, they got unbelievable people working there. And
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: it was, you know, from 1960 to 1975 or 76,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I think it was, they had the greatest run of films,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I think, ever. You know, I mean, I don't even
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: want to... All the Spaghetti Westerns, all the James Bond films...
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: all of the, a lot of Billy Wilder films, and
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: then there was a Lopert division, and we had Antonioni,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: and we had Bergman, we had Broca, we had, but
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: my point in telling all this boring stuff is that
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I was really fortunate to have been exposed to all this,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: and it was almost like a film school. So, you
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: have a different take on things, and even though I stay,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I produce films, and even though I subsequently ran the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: marketing division of United Artists at that time until 1967.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: And I was really a studio executive for a while.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Went off to England, produced and directed some films. I mean,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I always had this frame of reference that was really,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: really incredible. I mean, when I look back on it,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: it's just things that I would take for granted. You know,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: you would take for granted But not if you went,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know whether I would be as prepared if
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I'd gone to a film school.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and just that classroom every day versus this hands-on version.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: It was a hands-on version. But, you know, it was great.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And then subsequently when I started producing and I came
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: back from, I lived in London for nine, ten years
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: working partially for United Artists and partially on my own
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: and I just came back and I was offered this
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: really great job, which was to start a specialty division
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: at Universal, which was Universal Classics, which was the, I think,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: the precursor to a lot of the business plan. You know,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I can say it. Other people will say, oh, he
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: doesn't know what he's talking about. But we were the
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: first ones to release... specialty films, and then subsequently... You see,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: we did them in the 60s with these Lopert films
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: like Man from Rio, King of Hearts, Persona, a lot
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: of Antonioni's, La Notte. I had experience with all those films,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: but we were releasing them in the 80s, early 80s.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I was able to pick up films, distribute them through
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: a network of specialty movie houses around the country, work
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: on a much lower budget as mainstream, and then eventually,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: by guaranteeing distribution, we were opening funding for independent directors
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: and producers because they knew, people who were investing in
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the films, because they knew that they were going to
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: get into the theaters. They just weren't going to be
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: sitting around like so many films today. So it was
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: sort of a fail-safe. And we had Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: We did Zeffirelli's Traviata. We did Under the Volcano, Albert
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Finney and John Huston directing. We did Jeremy Irons' first film.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know. For some reason, I never can remember
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: the name of it. But there were... We did lots
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: and lots of those films. And I never eventually got
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: the support of the mainstream company. But then Mike Barker
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: and Tom Bernard went with Orion and started Orion Classics
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: and then subsequently moved into Sony Classics, which is pretty
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: much our business plan that we had.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I think it's just so interesting to... when you see
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: people start to move into different directions and so many, again,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: now you have so many like film students that are
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: just like, I'm going to be a director. So to me,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: when you see somebody that like has a mindset, that's like, no,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: producing is, is equally as important, if not more so
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: in some cases. So it's like when you start to
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: just be drawn to that, I think it's kind of
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: fascinating that you, you just at that point saw the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: part of it that was being put together. That was
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: almost way more, again, more hands-on, more mechanical than the others. Again,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: there's so many other things that are sort of lofty
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: about the acting and the directing, but producing is just
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: such a set mindset of how you have to go
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: about things.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you something very interesting about that, though. First
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: of all, just to go back, the classics division that
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I ran at Universal from 80 to 86, I think
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: it was, 85 or 86, part of the mandate was to.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Maximize the library yeah you know we were how do
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: you get things what can we remake you know what
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: can we it's not unusual today you know but even
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: then you know because in universal owned the pre pre-48
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: paramount library which they bought for nothing you know and
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: uh we would we would and i put together at
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: that time a preston sturgis package you know uh We
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: did a Douglas Cirque package and released them to sort
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: of mainly in New York, San Francisco, L.A. Those were
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: the main Chicago, the main cities that they would play
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: a film a week, say there were five films. They
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: had the choice. They could play one a week for
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: five weeks. or they could play one a day for
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: five days, five for five weeks, you know, or four weeks,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: whatever the deal was so that they could, we could
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: at least get our money out of it in prints,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: advertising and stuff like that. Although they, they did that
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: for the most. Um, and I also knew, you know,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: lots of little cities. I had relationships with people, uh, uh, that, that,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: that made it all, uh, worthwhile. But, uh, What happened was,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: and this maybe will get us back on track, and
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I can say how we're here today. One of the
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: things that was... pending was five Hitchcock films that he
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: left to the family. And they were Rear Window, Vertigo,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: The Man Who Knew Too Much, Trouble with Harry and Rope.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: So those five films were being negotiated by Universal Studios
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: for television. And they wanted to put them on TV.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: They hadn't been seen on the big screen for 17 years.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: And I said to my boss, I said, you know,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: let me take those out like these other things.
• 30:15
  Speaker 8: I said, these are really going to do, people are.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Going to go nuts for these. And that's when the
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: light went on in my head because they were in
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: the worst condition you could ever imagine. The worst. And,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: you know, they thought they could put him out on,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, on DVDs, not even on DVDs, they were
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: going to put him out on VHS or beta, you know.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: And that's what was so funny about saying to Dean
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: today that the poster that he has are not anything
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: to do with really what we're showing this week.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: That was the VHS poster. That was the VHS poster. Because, yeah,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I remember selling them. That's how far back I remember
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: doing this. I remember when that box set came out,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: more or less.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: And what we did, we packaged all of those films
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: with the same profile of Hitchcock on them, only changed
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: the name. And there was a great, I don't know
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: if you've ever seen it, but there's a trailer out.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it's on YouTube or somewhere. It's the reissue
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: of the five Hitchcock films in 1984. And it's Jimmy
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Stewart narrating it. Yeah.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Again, wasn't it on the front of those? Because I
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: do think I remember playing it.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: With Bernard Herrmann's music from Vertigo in the background. I
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: thought it was a six-minute trailer. And it went into
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: the theaters. And the trailer got such great response that
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I figured we were onto something.
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: He was one of the great geniuses of the movies.
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: He was the master of suspense, romance and the macabre.
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: He was the remarkable Alfred Hitchcock. This is Jimmy Stewart
• 32:05
  Speaker 7: and I want to tell you about a very special event.
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: The return of five Hitchcock pictures unseen for more than
• 32:13
  Speaker 7: a decade. Five films from Hitch's private collection. Vertigo. Kim
• 32:24
  Speaker 7: Novak is my co-star in this haunting tale of a
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: detective obsessed by a woman from the past. For a
• 32:33
  Speaker 7: lot of people, Vertigo is the ultimate Hitchcock thriller. The
• 32:48
  Speaker 7: man who knew too much. On vacation, Doris Day and
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: I become the victims of an international conspiracy. It all
• 33:14
  Speaker 7: leads to London's Albert Hall and a single crash of
• 33:18
  Speaker 7: the cymbals. Nothing will ever hold you like Alfred Hitchcock's rope.
• 33:29
  Speaker 7: Farley Granger and John Dahl are engaged in a cold-blooded
• 33:33
  Speaker 7: experiment in murder.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Where's David, Philip? I don't know. What? Brandon knows.
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: Does he?
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Doesn't he? Not that I know of. Oh, come now.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 33:45
  Speaker 7: And I may be the cause of their twisted crime.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: I told you we'd find out.
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: But oh, no.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: No, you have to have him here. And now we're
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: done for.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Now it'll shut off. You made me do it, and
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: I hate you. I hate both of us.
• 33:59
  Speaker 7: And then there was all that trouble with Harry. Those
• 34:04
  Speaker 7: feet belonged to Harry, the corpse who won't stay buried.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: What seems to be the trouble, Captain? Well, what you
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: might call an unavoidable accident.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: He's dead.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 34:22
  Speaker 7: Now, who said that death couldn't be funny? This wicked
• 34:27
  Speaker 7: comedy stars John Forsythe, Edmund Gwynne, and Shirley MacLaine in
• 34:32
  Speaker 7: her first film role. And finally, my own favorite, Rear Window.
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: I play a wheelchair-bound journalist observing life across the courtyard.
• 34:50
  Speaker 7: My girlfriend is the enchanting Grace Kelly. Where is that
• 34:55
  Speaker 7: wonderful music coming from? Some songwriter over there in the
• 34:58
  Speaker 7: studio apartment.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I've seen it through that window.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I've seen bickering and family quarrels. And mysterious trips at night.
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: Knives and saws and ropes.
• 35:11
  Speaker 7: And now since last evening, not a sign of the wife.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: All right, now you tell me where she is. Let's
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: go down and find out what's buried in the guard.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 35:21
  Speaker 7: To me, this is Hitchcock at his best.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Leder! Dial!
• 35:30
  Speaker 7: I hope you'll join me in welcoming back Vertigo....
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: The man who knew too much.
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: Rope, The Trouble with Harry, and Rear Window. Experience the
• 35:47
  Speaker 7: genius of Alfred Hitchcock.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, folks, it's intermission time. So how about taking a break?
• 36:00
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• 36:03
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• 36:07
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• 36:10
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• 36:21
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• 36:25
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• 36:28
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• 36:41
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• 36:44
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• 37:39
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• 37:45
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• 37:47
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• 37:50
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• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Know.
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• 38:03
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• 38:07
  Speaker 1: So 1983, we are collecting everything and anything we can
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: on those films.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: And 16, 35, I mean, anything you can. And trying
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: to put together a print that we can go to inter-positive, inter-negative,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: and back to inter-negative so we can print off it.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: And they were just terrible. But they were on the
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: big screen, and people were thrilled to see it. And
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: then the idea was to go and put out these
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: VHS packages, which we did with those posters.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: And the boxes all looked the same.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: And the Hitchcock family were represented by a really tough agent.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: And they negotiated a very large percentage of theatrical for audience,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: for the Hitchcock family. And... TV deal was structured on
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: the TV deal but they said you know alright we'll
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: put them out theatrically and you can have I don't
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: know 30% 35% whatever it's of the gross because they
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: didn't think anything was going to happen well 60 million
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: dollars later 60 million dollars later where this even This
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: even overran clearances in New York City where you could
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: play the east side or the west side. One chain
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: had the east side and the other group had the
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: west side of near Lincoln Center and some had The
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Village and Downside. But they never... If you got in
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: that sphere, you couldn't go in there and play the
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: other side of town. You would have a choice.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: That's the system, yeah.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Well, so many people wanted to see this, and there
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: was so much money out there for all of them
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: that they waived the clearances. So Dan Talbert's theaters around
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: the Lincoln Center Cinemas and the Cinema One, Cinema Two,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: which were the big six... the big art houses on
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: the east side. And, you know, we had Uptown. They
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: played everywhere. And that set the tone for the whole country.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: And they did really well. And then they set the
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: tone for Europe. And they played all over the world.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: And it was really amazing. Subsequently, I don't know, I
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: met Bob Harris, my partner at that time, because... He
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: was working on the, doing restoration work with Kevin Brownlow.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know, you know who Kevin Brownlow is?
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: I've heard it, yeah.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Anyway, Kevin Brownlow was, had this, he directed and produced
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: some films. He's a Brit. And he was obsessed with
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Abel Gance's Napoleon. And he was, he was finding pieces every,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: he's still working on it. To this day, he is
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: still working on it, and they're finding places, finding stuff. Anyway,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: that went out with a live orchestra, I don't know
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: if you remember that, in the late 80s and early 90s,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: and Francis Coppola's father wrote a new score. But I
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: met Bob then, and they were trying to do a
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: deal where after the live orchestras played the show... that
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: we would find a way to release it, like at
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: the Cinerama Dome in Los Angeles, or Cinerama theaters around
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: the country. And we were working on ways to do
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: the trip ticket. Have you ever seen that film? I
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: don't think so. There was a trip ticket, silent movie,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: and they had a soundtrack. And it was a really big,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: sort of spectacular, and it played, you know, very like
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: the Chicago theater. It played the... I think it played
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: the Carnegie Hall or something. I think it did. But anyway,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: big theaters like that. You know, this Shrine Auditorium in L.A.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: And we bought it for the distribution in 70 millimeter
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: on with a soundtrack. So that was, anyway, that's how
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I met Bob. And I said to him, I said,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: you know, and he was, he's really sort of a, chemist, engineer,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: film nerd, you know, but he knew all about that
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: stuff and he knew all about, you know, the various
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: aspect ratios and he knew about color timing and he
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: knew about technicolor and he knew about all these things.
• 43:16
  Speaker 8: And, you know, I said, Bob, you know, we just
• 43:21
  Speaker 8: put this stuff together and it's like I mean, if
• 43:29
  Speaker 8: these five Hitchcock pictures are in such terrible condition, and
• 43:35
  Speaker 8: they're at.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Iron Mountain Storage in L.A., where it's 100 degrees during
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: the day and 50 degrees at night, I mean, that's
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: not even good for people.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: The best place to store cellulite.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: What can we do? I mean, can you imagine what
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: else is out there? I mean, that's in terrible condition.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: You know, we try to figure out what. what the
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: films at the, you know, had the greatest, were at risk. Yeah.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: You know, and then I went off, he went off
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: to do Lawrence of Arabia, which was a director's cut
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: with David Lean. It wasn't a restoration per se, although
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: they did save a lot of it. But he worked
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: with David Lean on the director's cut of that, which
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: was brilliant. And it was a huge success out as well.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: And I went off and produced two or three movies
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: after I left United Artists.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Was that The Lust of the Nest? That was mine.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: The Paul Bartel is so fascinating. I didn't know how
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: you got involved with him.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Well, Paul was always a friend of mine. He was
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: a neighbor of mine. But anyway, I'll get to that
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: in a second if you want me to talk about it. Yeah, definitely.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: But that's when we realized that how many films were
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: really at risk And we realized that the ones that
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: were at risk were 70mm films that played in special
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: engagements around the country at holiday time, Christmas time. And
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: the film in the projection in Kansas City had to
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: look as good as it did in New York. Because
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: they were charging more money and they were.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: There were intermissions and, you know, all sorts of spectacular-looking,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: you know, projections and such. And we realized that large
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: format was the real problem because they made all of
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: the prints, sometimes up to 300, 400 prints, off the
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: original negative, which meant that the first week that– say,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: My Fair Lady, which we had done after all these
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Hitchcock films, the first week after that went into the theaters,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: some projectionist is going to screw up, and you're going
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: to be having to splice new sections into these films.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Every time you do that, you're moving one generation away,
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: so it's more of a problem across the board.
• 46:09
  Speaker 8: And....
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Then the negatives would go through to make the replacement
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: pieces and then screw up on the negatives. So anyway,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: one thing led to another and we decided to do
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: that and found a real friend in Tom Pollack who
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: I met and worked with a couple of weeks ago
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: because he's the first one. I went back to Universal
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: and he gave us the money to do the restoration
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: on Spartacus. And then we were in unknown territory. So... Now,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: do you want me to talk about Paul?
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, since that sort of veers off at that point,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: I guess, yeah.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Well, what we did was we did Spartacus. We did Vertigo.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: We did My Fair Lady. I think we did Spartacus, maybe.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know what order it was. My Fair Lady,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: all straight 70s. Then we did a film which was
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: for Johnson's Wax, which was a 360-degree called To Be Alive.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And that was something that played at the 1964 World's Fair.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: And it's playing up in Wisconsin somewhere. But it's one
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: of those, it played at the World's Fair. It's a
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: 360 thing.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Gatlinburg had one of those for years.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: It was really interesting to do that. Then we did,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: and Bob had done, I'd come in at the end
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: of Lawrence, and he had done that first. And then
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: we did Rear Window. which was not really a true
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: large format film, but it was in such terrible condition
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: that they asked us if we'd take a shot at it.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: And we were dealing with, there was a new three-strip,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: there was sort of a resurgence of three-strip Technicolor at
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: that time, so it seemed like a good match. But anyway,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: the rest now is here we are today, you know,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: in the digital age, and I'm still talking about photochemical.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: So that gives you some idea of how things progressed.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: But anyway, to get into my other life, in the 80s,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: I think we were at, what, the Cannes Film Festival
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: or somewhere, and we were, I was with UA, and
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: we were going there to buy Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: the film that David Bowie was in, you know, Ryuichi Sakamoto.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: And, you know, it was Tom Conti was the actor
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: in it. And it was directed by Nagisa Oshima. Yeah.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Very famous Japanese director. Anyway, we went out and we
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: went to try and buy that. And we always went
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: to the film festivals to look for new products, especially,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: you know, European stuff. And I'd known Paul because he
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: was working with Roger Corman, and he just became a
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: friend of mine. I don't know how it all happened.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: He was there with Eating Raul. Yeah. And eating Raul was,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: you know, it, it had sort of a cachet that was,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: it was catching on. And I think Fox picked, I think,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know whether Fox financed it or picked it up,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: whether they picked it up at the fist festivals and stuff. Anyway,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: so we went, I was talking to him about, you know, and,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: you know, parting my marketing wisdom, you know, on that film. And, uh,
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: And we talked and got to know each other. We
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: found out we lived near each other in L.A., and
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: I knew people who had worked with him at Quarman's. And,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: you know, to make a long story short, we started
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: to work on Lust in the Dust, which was sort
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: of conceived by Tab Hunter. Yeah. And who we also knew,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: my wife knew him actually better than I did. And
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: his partner, Alan Glasser, was trying to produce this film. And,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: you know, there was one day you have money, one
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: day you don't have money. And then you tell them
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: what it's about and they say, are you kidding? And
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: then everybody thinks it's a John Waters movie. But it
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: wasn't a John Waters movie.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: To this day, I think people still mistake it for one.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: John was supportive. We picked his brain a lot. But
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: the main thing was he didn't ever want to work
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: on anything he didn't write and conceive. But he thought
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: it was a very funny idea. And we were looking
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: for something different for Divine. And that was, I can
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: tell you honestly, all the films I've been on, all
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: of the ones I've produced... It was the most fun
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: I've ever had on.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: A movie set.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: It was just outrageous. And we were down in New Mexico,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: in Santa Fe, and we were shooting on the set
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: of the Cheyenne Social Club, Henry Fonda movie. The set
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: was left there. We were just like in shambles on
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: this guy's ranch. And we were down there for 32 days,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: and Somewhere in the early stages, you know, they just
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: couldn't find a director. And then suddenly I said, you know,
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: this could be great for Paul Martel, you know. And
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: I knew he'd get on with Divine. Yeah. And it
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: was just a match made in heaven. But, you know,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Tab had very specific ideas. ideas as to how this
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: was going to be made. So you bring in a
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: director like, oh, you know, this is crazy. They were
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: both crazy, and the innuendo on that film was, you know,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: it was just mad. But anyway, there was a detente,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: and we made, I think, a pretty funny film. I mean,
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I think I watched it a couple of months ago,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: And they said to me, well, you know, you're married.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: You have six kids. You know, I know Marty. How
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: come you made two gay movies? And I said, I
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: never thought of them as being gay movies. You know,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: I never thought of them in those terms. I thought
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: they were funny movies, and Divine was just hilarious. I mean,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: maybe we were a little ahead of our time, because
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: after that, I did scenes from The Class Struggle in
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Beverly Hills with Paul.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: And that was equally funny. And we shot around Los Angeles. And,
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: you know, it was a really good experience. And then
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: I went off and did another couple of films, one
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: with Beth Henley, which was called Nobody's Fool, which Beth
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Henley wrote, and Rosanna Arquette was in it. And we
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: shot that in Arizona and stuff. And I didn't really like...
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: producing that much, quite honestly. You know, I'll tell you,
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: some people thrive on it and want to do it.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: But to me it was, you know, oh, God, here's
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: a great project. You know, I really like this. And
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: I option it, or any producer options it. And then
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: you try and get an actor attached to it or
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: a director attached to it. And then you go out
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: and you try and raise some short money. And then
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: if you're lucky, you go out and raise some long
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: money and try and get it together. And money's falling
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: out and money's coming in. There's one trauma and drama
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: every day. And then you get on set and you say, shit,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: I've got to make this movie now. I've just been
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: out there for six months, whatever it is, sometimes years.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: And you're raising money and you get it together and
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: you get your completion bonds, which you had to get then.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Now it's a little less complicated. And you've got to
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: get great deals at the labs. This was all film.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was still actual film.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: And if you lost a few days, it was expensive.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: You had to shoot film. Even though now everybody thinks
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: digital is much cheaper, but it really isn't that much
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: cheaper because once you get into post, you still have it.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: It picks back up. Yeah, you invest it in a
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: different way.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have other problems. So anyway, so you do that,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: and you finally get it, You know, you finish shooting.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: And most directors, I don't care how good they are,
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: most directors think that the last day of shooting is
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: the end of the movie.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: If you're not the editor, that's true for them, I suppose.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think they understand the editing process. I mean,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: the editing process is the next step. But post-production is.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: It's someone else's problem.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of problems. You know, getting it from
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: that final cut, that director's cut, You've been working on
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: it forever. Then it's the only business in the world
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: where you have to sell it to investors. Then you
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: make the movie. And you've got to sell it to actors,
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: and you've got to sell it to directors. Then you
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: make the movie. Then you've got to sell it to
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: a distributor. Then you sell it to the distributor. And
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: then you've got to sell it with the distributor to
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: the exhibitors, to the theater owners. And then you both
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: will have to go and sell it to the public.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm so fascinated by that industry because it
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: is such a fight from day one and it is just,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: it almost never ends. As you continue on.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Well, then you have to be working on the next project.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: And then you finish, it gets into the theaters and
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: you go to the premieres and you have the dinners
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: and all that. And you sit back and you say,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: do I want to start this all over again? Some
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: people thrive on it. Some people love it. I mean,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: I remember Joel Silver... People like that, you know, producers
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: out there now, present day guys, they just feed on it.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: They just love it. And they love dealing with the agents,
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: and they love dealing with the studios, and they love it.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: But it really wasn't for me. And I was getting older,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: you know. I mean, you know, it's not a business for...
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: the faint of heart, or anyone over 45 or 50,
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: unless you want to take the studio route.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: It doesn't offer much leisure time.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it's just, you know, it's just not, it's a
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: young person's business. So anyway, then I reconnected. I did
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: three or four films, I don't know. And then by chance,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: I reconnected with Bob. And we said, let's see if
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: we can't. Get this money and do Spartacus. And Tom
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: gave us that money. And then we got into the 90s.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: From 88 to 2000, 12 years of my life, we
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: managed to save five films. Yeah.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Which is amazing, but it's such an investment. So it is.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: But, you know, you don't figure that. Yeah. And I
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: remember we were doing Vertigo. And we were shooting Cutting
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Room 23 at Universal. And one of the things they
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: were doing at that point, they were building the Jurassic
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: Park ride.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: And they were testing it. And we're trying to do music,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Bernard Herrmann score, against the background of, you know, digitized
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: music tracks and trying to match the tracks. And there
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: were all sorts of problems, which is what I'm going
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: to talk about here. Are you going to see the
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: movies here? Yeah. I'm going to talk a little bit
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: about that. And all we heard was... And finally, we
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: started to work from 4 in the afternoon, 5 in
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: the afternoon, until midnight, 2 in the morning. And we
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: did very well at night.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Just because the dinosaurs wouldn't shut up.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: But the process is probably a little bit of what
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about. But I think when you
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: talk about things like that, someone says... how do you
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: restore a film, you know? I said, do you really
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: want to know? I said, yeah, yeah, well, let's meet
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: up for a minute, party or someone's house. And then
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: about two minutes into the explanation, I see them looking
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: over my shoulder at who's coming in the room.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: I think I've got a call.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Hold on a minute. And my wife kicks me under
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: the table and says, you know, Because nobody really, you know,
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: nobody wants to know how the sausages are made.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, again, I think it depends on how hardcore
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: of a film geek you are. But it is one
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: of those, I do wonder what becomes more of your time,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: or is it a mixture of everything? Because there has
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: to be so much of it that is you on
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: the phone and now sending emails and just dealing... with
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: legal and rights issues, plus then there's the physical tracking
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: down actual.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: You mean on restorations?
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, on restorations.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Well, on restorations, you don't usually get into it until
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: you have on your side the owner of the film,
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: the owner who owns the rights. But, you know, today,
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: every studio has a preservation, restoration archivist on site. Back then,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: they didn't even have vaults. They had some vaults, but
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: mostly filled with TV shows, you know, especially Universal. But
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: they didn't, you know, and don't forget, you know, back
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: when we were doing this, the old film studios, We
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: were finding that soundtracks would be in one place. The
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: picture would be in another place. The negative would be
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: in another place. They didn't care because nobody wanted to
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: pay storage. They didn't want to pay the storage. I mean,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: my fair lady, 14 cans of positive go from that
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: sink over to here. 14 cans that are that wide,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: you know. And the one thing they didn't want was...
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: was to pay the storage on it, so they didn't
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: really care. So I think that we awakened them to
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: that extent, you know, where we got them to be
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: conscious of their libraries and what the dangers of it
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: all were. And then there were a lot of people
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: like Marty Scorsese and Spielberg and people who were aware
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: of film history, you know, came into the picture and
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Marty started his film foundation. And they were working on
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: different types of film. I mean, we were the ones
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: who were working on large format, but they were doing
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: things that were very interesting, mainly black and white, but
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: which you just need to do a fine grain. You know,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: it's a little cheaper and a little, you know, but
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: still very important. A lot of the black and white
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: stuff was there. And then there's tons of nitrate, which
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: is at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and in the salt
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: mines out in Kansas City. I mean, it's all over
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: because it's so combustible. And... You know, so we put
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: all this stuff together and made it, I think we
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: gave it, made people aware that in 100 years of
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: removing image, that a lot of it was deteriorating. And we,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: you know, we better, you know, so we, I think
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: we sent that message out. And we worked out lots
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: of ways to do the restorations and deal with products.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: And we would start off with, with just what was
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: best left on the negative. And then at certain points,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: if they had color separations, we would use the color
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: separations to register aspects of the show. And then with
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: each film, the digital technology was getting more and more sophisticated.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: And on the opening sequences of My Fair Lady, we
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: were able to reconstruct the entire opening sequence you know,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: at 4K, 6K digital. And now I'm a little worried
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: because everybody is basically restoring films digitally, but we don't
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: know really what the shelf life is, since we didn't
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: know VHS. Digital deterioration. You know, VHS, well, it's a
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: different kind of deterioration.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's still there. It's still a possibility.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: And the product is... increasing, increasing, increasing. There's more and
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: more films. So what we did was I think we
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: gave them the basis from which to make elements which
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: would give them a digital negative, digital information. And from that,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: no matter what the technology, they would be able to
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: recreate the image. So it was a long ride, and
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: it was very... very interesting. And I'm trying to explain
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: what we did.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: And, uh, I guess you were learning as you went to,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, you didn't know any of this coming in.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: It was totally, you know, I can't, I don't want
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: to get into it all now, but we were dealing with,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: you know, we're dealing with three strip Technicolor. Then we
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: were dealing with Eastman color because technically Eastman color really
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: sucked because I mean, it was, you know, it was, uh, it,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: it didn't have the, uh, um, longevity didn't have the
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: life that three strip did, but you know, three strip
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: was getting expensive and it was becoming this dinosaur, you know,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: and then they tried it in the, I think it
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: was probably in the nineties. They, Dr. Dick Goldberg, uh,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: who was a technicolor and a couple of other people
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: thought they could rejuvenate, um, the three strip process. They
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: thought it might work and it might be a good
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: marketing tool, but it also might, you know, uh, leave
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: elements that were more substantial than the Eastman color. And
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: one of the problems, I mean, there were problems, but
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: one of the problems was that directors, you needed a
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: six-week window from the time you locked the film till
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: the matrices were ready, you know, and printing, you could
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: start printing. And no director could and I'll say this,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Marty Scorsese was one of them, and he wasn't alone.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: They couldn't lock the film six weeks before. They couldn't
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: stop touching it, you know? And they couldn't walk away
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: from it. And as a result of that, you know,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: the release dates were missed, and it just didn't turn
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: out to be a viable process. But subsequently... You know,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: the digital, you know, you could put stuff through telecine machines.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: Now it's even more sophisticated than that, and I don't
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: even want to get into it because it's like, you know,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: it's even more radical than going from stick shift to
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: automatic transmission. Yeah.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Well, now that there's so many more people doing it,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: like you said in the beginning, you guys were kind
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: of the forefront, the only ones doing that kind of restoration.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Now that you see so many like what was DVDs
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: and now Blu-rays being made as these new remastered or
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: at least turned into some new digital print, I guess
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: do you feel glad that there's other people out there
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: that are kind of able to keep it going from
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: this point on, but is it also a good version?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Listen, I'm pushing 80. So I'm telling you, I'm glad
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: we did what we did. I think we called attention
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: to the problem and pretty much in many instances forced
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: the studios. Paramount was one of the first who really
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: built an incredible vault and so did Warner's. And now
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: everybody's got it and everyone's aware of it and aware
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: of the of all of these, these things and all
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: the problems that are, uh, are, are, uh, exist with,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: with digital. So people are aware of it, but there's
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: so many films being made, you know, there's always the selection.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: What do we say? What do we don't? And, uh,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: you know, so that, that's, you know, I'm glad people should,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: you know, you're really glad that they're, that they're aware
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: of it and are, are, you know, the cream rises
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: to the top of it. You know, And I think
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: that we, you know, proud of what we did. And, yes,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: we were the transition from photochemical to digital. You know,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: and we worked with a lot of people. You know,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: we worked up to 6K digital. You know, now, you know,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: 2K is sufficient. Yeah. And 4K is amazing. But I'll
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: tell you one story. It's funny. My wife and I,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: we went to the Motion Picture Academy one night in California,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: and we were going to a screening of Singing in
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: the Rain. New digital, yeah, new digital, you know, presentation.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: In the audience, Donald O'Connor was there. Debbie Reynolds was there.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: I don't remember whether Gene Kelly was there. Stanley Donnan
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: was there, the director. Anyway. Anyway. And up on the
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: screen is this unbelievably crystal clear picture that had absolutely,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: to me, no resemblance to film at all. Yeah. It
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: looked like a sitcom.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: It's kind of unnerving seeing it, those first times.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Now, most people in that audience said, wow, wasn't that great? And,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously the people in it were thrilled, you know,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: like this is forever, which it's not. And then it
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: just opened up a whole new ballgame because it wasn't true.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a film. There was no grain in it.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: It didn't have that look. And, you know, another thing,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: when you're doing restorations, there's a lot of big responsibility
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: in doing that because when you are taking, you know,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: like I remember seeing a 1954 print of Gone with
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: the Wind, which was the last print that David Selznick approved.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: That was the last one he approved. So we know
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: that's what it was supposed to look like. Now, in 1989,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: I think it was the 50th anniversary of Donald Trump.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: They double-boxed it for that.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: One, too. But the guys who did it, they made
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: it look like they thought the audience wanted to see it.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Not the way it was. And they were using tech
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: you know, technology that couldn't really do what the three-strip
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Technicolor did in 1939. And as a result of that,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: it was... It didn't look anything like Gone with the Wind. Yeah.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: So what we were able to do... You know, we
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: didn't do it. We did tests on that and stuff. But,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: you know, 1939, you had Gone with the Wind and
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: The Wizard of Oz. And The Wizard of Oz... was
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: a really vibrant yellows, greens, blues, silver, you know, the
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Tin Man and all. And it had a look to
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: it with three-strip Technicolor. On the other end of the
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: scale was Gone with the Wind that did grays and
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: black velvet against green velvet now. And, you know, rich
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: skin tones and... very sort of a sepia look to
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: it you know and you could do that with three
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: strip technicolor but you can't do it you know just
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: throwing it through a machine and not being aware of
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: what not being aware of what responsibility you have to
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: the film little of that with Vertigo which I'll talk
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: about I won't talk about it here but I'll talk
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: about it there you know, about some of the responsibilities
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: we had, and purists, you know, saying that we did this,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: we shouldn't have done that, you know, and yet they
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: don't know really what elements we have to deal with,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: but at the same time, it's always on your mind
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: as to what to do, and with Vertigo particularly, we
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: had discussions on, we found the soundtracks in Trash Heap
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: and Glen Glen Sound in Hollywood, you know, and we
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: had all sorts of, problems getting the soundtracks ready. And
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: you know, when you do a restoration, you're working on
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: a picture, and then you have to work on soundtracks.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: And then you might not see them together for maybe
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: four months or five months into the process. So anyway,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: I'm really curious to see what the take on it
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: is here. I think there'll be a lot of people
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: who haven't seen it. I think there'll be a lot
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: of people who don't get it. And I think there'll
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: be a lot of people who are... you know, who
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: enjoy it. I think that they're two really interesting pictures. They're,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: you know, different types of films, Hitchcock films, and they're
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: coming out of an era from 48, I think, until
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: probably 1960, where you had, you know, they'd make two
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: a year. You know, you'd have Rope in 48, and
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: then you had.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: I guess I think you had Dial M for Murder.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: Then you had Vertigo. You had Rear Window. You had
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: North by Northwest. You had Catch a Thief. All in
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: like six years, five, six years.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: His body of work is phenomenal.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: So anyway.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you still.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: Think about working on new stuff? Or have you gotten
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: to the point where you like doing this end of
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: it more or trying to make other people do it
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: because it's a lot of work?
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I work with my stepson who's an actor. And,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: you know, it's all right. But, you know, times change.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: You know, I love watching movies. I've been in the
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Motion Picture Academy for 51 years now. I keep saying
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: I peaked early. So I got asked to join when
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: I was pretty young. And, you know, I'm on the
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: nominating committee for foreign films. And touch wood, I'm in
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: reasonable shape. And I got a great wife and six
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: great kids. And we go around visiting 12 grandkids. And
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not really too interested. I mean, I think... People
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: will call and I'm flattered when they ask if I'd
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: come and talk about it. But I have to put
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: in perspective really what I'm talking about. And that it's
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: without making it sound like I'm giving my eulogy, for
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: lack of a better word.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: I think it is important just, I mean, specifically what
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: you guys did in the early days, Because it is,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, there really wasn't anybody actively, like it seemed
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: like it didn't even concern studios for maybe the entire run.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: Up until the 80s. It didn't because there were so
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: many elements, you know, from financial and distribution problems. And,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: you know, but the, you know, don't forget a lot
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: of them were made in the studio system. And the
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: studio system was, you know, it was a totally different, uh, atmosphere, the,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: you know, now you have, you know, actors are different.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: Everyone's an independent contractor. It's not a system.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: You know, and distribution for sure is different. Yeah.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: And, uh, there was also nothing to do with them then.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Like pre eighties, there wasn't any other market where we
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: got VHS. It changed the entire industry.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: You know, it's nice to be able to watch TV
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: screens again. I remember going to places in L.A., you know,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: some of these first multiplexes where I got a bigger
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: TV screen at home than I go into the theater.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: They're not much different anymore.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: I don't particularly like watching movies at home. I do, obviously.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: There's a certain... convenience and we get screeners from the
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: academy so that's sort of nice to have that yeah
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: but i still try we still try and go to
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: the theater as much as we can the only difference
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: is now uh at my age i can go tuesday afternoon.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: Sadly that's where i am too i like saturday mornings
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: that there's one here that does one like first thing
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: when they open like 11 i'm like i like and
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: i don't fall asleep in So I'm right there with you,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: as I said.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: So we do that, you know. And like I say,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to come around and talk about things. And
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Dean's great here, you know, at the speed. And I
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: think that he's really breathed life into this whole cinema program.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: A great kind of revamping since he's taken over.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I didn't know what was here before, but
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know what's here now. And, you know,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: I hope I can.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: way more active just I know living here I know
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: they've had you know but ever since he moved in
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: and they rebuilt the new theater it's yeah it's a
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: whole different world more or less so I'm glad you've
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: become a.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: Part of it well thanks.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you for talking with us today I think I'm talked.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Out I don't like I hope everybody can stay awake
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: for the entire broadcast I think so.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: I think so but yeah thank you thank you for being.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: With us man thanks for having me no.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: Problem So a huge thank you to James for taking
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: the time to sit down with me and letting all
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: of us share in his amazing life story. I don't
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: think he gives himself enough credit that he has played
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: such a pivotal part in preserving not just those specific films,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: but also setting the wheels in motion to preserve all films.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: Or hopefully so.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 5: We shall see.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Also a big thank you to Dean Otto, who you
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: heard us mention there. Dean is the curator of film
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: at the Speed Art Museum, and I definitely couldn't have
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: put this episode together without his help. Dean came on
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: as curator going on about two years ago, and he
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: has sort of revitalized the film program at the museum.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: And I, for one, and seemingly many other filmgoers, are
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: glad to see film being brought to the forefront of this,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: or any museum, and seeing the medium get treated as
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: a work of art, because it is. Sometimes that gets
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: overlooked in the world of blockbusters and opening weekend grosses,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: so it's good to have people working to showcase some
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: great cinematic works of art. So if you can get
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: yourself to Louisville, come check out The Speed. It's a
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: terrific museum overall, and of course there's the impressive film program.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: To find out more about the museum and to see
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: some of the upcoming projects, go to speedmuseum.org and come
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: out and support what they're putting together.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 5: Otherwise, that about does it.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: We will return next time. Same geek feed. Thanks for listening.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: The Lone Ranger. without droning on I assume you'll be
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: able to cut this.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 5: Down this episode is a production of Movie Meltdown produced
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: and edited by The Oddity Studios, with opening music performed
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 5: by The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 5: support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: Talk hard!
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: This program is a proud member of the Battleship Pretension Fleet.