Latest / Podcast Portwenn: Doc Martin & Best Medicine / Best Medicine Season 1 | "I Cannot And Will Not." — Unpacking the Best Family Secrets

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Best Medicine Season 1 | "I Cannot And Will Not." — Unpacking the Best Family Secrets · Podcast Portwenn: Doc Martin & Best Medicine

• Chesla Wechsler: I'm pleased to have a new face join the guest list. Here's Mel, an unspoiled Best Medicine fan. Unspoiled means that she has not watched Doc Martin. She has also been an enthusiastic watcher of Best Medicine, as well as a frequent commenter on the podcast, which I certainly appreciate. Welcome to Podcast Portwenn. Before we start, I dropped a short describing Buckham Fair. I hope you'll check it out. And now, on to the episode. Mel: Thank you. Happy to be here. Chesla Wechsler: Again, please check the short on Buckham Fair and consider donating. Thanks for your consideration. All right, yes, it's great to have a new face on the podcast. Now we were talking just before this, just a little bit about how you came across Best Medicine. Why don't you fill in the folks watching? Mel: Yeah. So, I mean, I happened, I think I happened to see an advertisement for it and I had no idea at the time that it was an American adaptation of Doc Martin. And so I thought, that looks kind of interesting. So I just set my DVR to start recording it. And then I really circled back to watch it. So finally it's nine episodes later and I have a free weekend and so I decided to start watching it and I watched all nine episodes in that one weekend and then joined like when season or excuse me episode 10 aired that Tuesday I watched that live with everybody else but by the time I got through all nine of those episodes I was like oh my god I love this show it's so fun so that's how I got into it I was hooked I think I was hooked probably by well I actually Chesla Wechsler: Good. Yeah, so your hook? Yeah. Mel: That's probably the first show I've ever binged like that. So I think I was probably hooked by maybe episode four. Chesla Wechsler: Wow, that's impressive. Now, do you think that they've gotten better over time or it's been pretty even? Mel: Mm-hmm. I I think they've gotten better over time. I mean, ⁓ that the entire season is... I've back and rewatched... ⁓ think after season 10, I went back and rewatched all of them. And I've watched pretty much every single one except for episode 11, at least one, at least twice. And ⁓ that season's over, I will probably go watch all of them because I think it would be interesting to see not only the show improve and the growth of the characters, but some of the things that were mentioned earlier in the season that... seem to now come back later. But I do think the show has definitely got better and kind of hit its stride. Chesla Wechsler: Have you watched all 13 episodes? Okay, yep, very good, very good. What was your favorite one? Mel: I have. Yeah. 10. I think 10 was probably my favorite. Yeah. Chesla Wechsler: Really? Now which one was that? Mel: That was the kissing one. Chesla Wechsler: very good. Yes, Peter Cronk surgery in the ⁓ thing, Mel: Yeah. Yes, yes. But it was, I I liked it for multiple reasons. I did like the fact that Martin and Louise's relationship really seemed to kind of move forward in that one. And then, of course, you know, the kissing scene was just very romantic. But I also liked the scene, the ambulance scene, because I think it gave us a good glimpse of like who Martin was and what he could do before and whatever trauma surface, like upended his life. And so I liked kind of that glimpse into him and his, you know, his intelligence, his competence, all of that. I really, I really liked that portrayal. Chesla Wechsler: That makes sense. I also... Mel: It made what he did afterwards seem even more kind of, just wanted to shake him and be like, what are you doing? Chesla Wechsler: seems like what he's been trying to get to, he gets there and he blows it. Mel: Yeah. Yeah. I know, and then everything that's happened afterwards, I was like, well, you would not have been in this situation had you not done that. Chesla Wechsler: What did you take of that scene when he's on her porch and she's basically inviting, like, she's inviting him in. Mel: Yeah. I was, I thought, well, okay. At first I wasn't sure where this was going. I was like, okay, I could maybe see them, maybe see him saying, okay, you we're both tired. Let's get some sleep and reconvene. And I think if he had left it there, it would have been a reasonable thing to say. But then he started moving on and I was watching it I was like, wait, it took me a minute to register what was actually happening. I was like, is he doing what I think he's doing? So, um, yeah, I was shocked. I was like, wow, okay. ⁓ Chesla Wechsler: Where do you think that comes from? Mel: I think comes from a couple of places. I think it comes from probably being uneasy with, just with affection. think moved way too quickly for him and he panicked. And I also think it comes from where he is currently. I have this kind of headcanon that this blood phobia, it surfaced obviously, you know, upended his life. And I think it knocked him his confidence back significantly because you do see glimpses of his, you know, of that confidence throughout the show, but you also see somebody who's really been knocked for a loop. And so I think he literally feels like he's got nothing to offer her at this point because I think he feels like, you know, I was at the top of my field and now I struggle to do basic medicine, because he can't ⁓ the sight of blood. ⁓ I that played heavily. I think that plays heavily on it. Chesla Wechsler: That makes sense. What about the whole Rosemary angle? Mel: Mm-hmm. I'm so curious about that. I really want to know more about that. I love the fact that he has her picture in his wallet. It's just it was very sweet. But I do like I know pretty much every episode of the podcast here, you at least a couple of your guests are always like, I want to know more about that. I do too. I really hope it comes to the surface. I have a feeling with Eden being in the picture that it will, because I think she knows the background and I think she knows the story. But I do want that surface and I want to know what happened. I mean all they said was an accident and I mean of course we assume it's a car accident but we actually don't even know for certain or have or did they say that and I just missed it. I feel like they said it. Chesla Wechsler: going have to go back. The that I'm wondering is, I got sense that he, I know he was there and I'm trying to remember if he said he was in the car or he was ⁓ there and don't remember. Like this is the first time that doubt has been put in my head that it was a car accident. Mel: Right. Okay. Yeah, I have to go back too, because I think it was in, because I know it came up in what was it, the Bean Supper episode, I'm blanking on the number, when was telling Louisa about it. It was, I think that was one of the only times it was mentioned in the season, other than after that it was just her name or he just referred to as the accident. Because it's also possible, and I've always all season have gone with it was a car accident too. So that must have come from somewhere. Maybe he did say it, but I was thinking it wasn't a car accident. It could be something as simple as like she got hit by a car. But I also think the level of trauma and not wanting to talk about it is more indicative of like a car accident where, you know, one of the parents may have been driving or something. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, I know in the very, I think it's the very first episode because in that episode doesn't he kind of like decide he's leaving town because he's had enough, right? And he almost runs Aunt Sarah off the road and she's like, what's going on? And he says, I froze. I had to do this surgery and it was on this eight year old girl and she had a, Mel: Mm-hmm. Yes, he does. He does. Chesla Wechsler: her heart valve or whatever, and she'd been in a car accident. Sarah says something like, it reminded you of Rosemary. Mel: Right. Okay, so that's where it came from then. So it probably full out stated but I think we all drew that inference from what she said. Chesla Wechsler: what you know. Yeah, but I have to go watch these again because like you said, it could have been like she was an eight-year-old girl with a heart valve thing from an accident, but it could have reminded him of Rosemary, but the little girl's accident could have been a ⁓ accident. Rosemary's accident could have had similar injuries, but not been a car accident, right? So there's ⁓ lot of... Mel: Mm-hmm. Right, right. Yeah, and I don't know, I I guess I could look up to see like what type of accidents would cause those types of injuries. ⁓ I mean, I would assume it was a result of some sort of like blunt force, I don't know for certain because I'm not a medical person. But yeah, and it's because actually when we're talking about it now, it's the first time that that occurred to me as well. It's a new thought. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, that's the joy. It's the joy of the podcast. And also I think, I think that's the, that's the enjoyment that the podcasts brings to the people who watch the podcast, because this show is watched by millions of people in a country with 330 million people, right. Or plus, so not everybody has someone to talk to about the show. Mel: Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Chesla Wechsler: You can come to the podcast and see people talking about the show and then we're feeding off each other's ideas. And then folks, I encourage you to comment because, you know, new conversations and new ideas come out there. You go back, you rewatched, you agreed, you not agreed, you find something that's counter to that info. It makes it a lot more fun, I think, to watch the show. Mel: Mm-hmm. It does. that's exactly how I gravitated towards this podcast too, is I was looking for somebody to discuss the show with beyond just Facebook groups. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Right. Yeah, because there's not a real immediacy there. Yeah. Yeah. And I do try to be immediate with my responses if I can. Like, I'm actually near a computer and I get a ping, I try to respond pretty quickly. But appreciated your comments. They've made me think and go back and look at stuff. Now, did you think of Robert and Vanessa? Mel: Right, right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, I think they're kind of interesting. mean, ⁓ said, I was watching it last night again and I took notes ⁓ and did think about... how they do seem to be, I think this did come up in your episode nine ⁓ discussion, ⁓ ⁓ think as as their personalities allow it, I do think they do have a happy marriage. I mean ⁓ do come in holding ⁓ in arm, and then when Martin confronts his dad and said, are you having an affair? He's like, no, I would never. I would never do something like that. So I think that's and the fact that they stayed together after whatever happened with Rosemary. Because a lot of times, death like that will tear apart a marriage. But just so like distant and cold and well, especially especially Robert, think Vanessa less so but that radical honesty is makes her Unlikable. In a of ways, I mean, I do think she did get to Elaine with the tough love message. But not everybody appreciates that. And I did like the fact that she was trying to find something. almost like she was trying to find something negative to say about Louisa and couldn't. She was like, you're, because she paused. And then she was like, you're, and she was like, kind. And that was the only thing she could come up with. the that they're so critical of Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Mel: Martin and of everything is that I find that hard to To watch I mean even when they were confronting him about why he left Boston It wasn't so much what happened. Are you okay? It was all about how it affected them and how it embarrassed them Which was Right, she couldn't get her keratin treatment, which I thought was you know is incredibly selfish and incredibly cold-hearted. I mean you have your your here who's Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, she can't get her hair dyed or whatever. Mel: left his, you know, abruptly left a lucrative career, of course. you are obviously concerned about him, but instead of being open and saying, you what's wrong here? ⁓ you know, look how this affects us. We're so embarrassed now. And then of course, when he, you know, sits with his father at the table, think it's the kitchen table, don't miss having a living room? And always fidgeting. It's just. the whole, Martin, what did you do? And I noticed last night and I hadn't caught it when I saw the episode the first couple of times. when Vanessa walks in to the room where Mark is after he's been impaled at that wire, she looks ⁓ Martin and she's like, what did you do? And was thinking, how would he have done anything? He's literally here trying to help. Yeah. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. And I know Robert says the same thing. Robert in and he's just like, what have you done now? And it's like, you know? Mel: Yeah, so, um... Yeah. And the fact that they... I did think it was funny though that they walked in at the absolute worst time that I think has ever occurred at that practice. I mean, there's always been moments of chaos, but it was literally like there was that chicken and then the kid playing the trumpet. And one of the things I caught too in that episode, which I didn't ever occur to me, is when he's down under the chairs trying to catch the chicken, he actually calls Vanessa mother. He's like, I got... I have it under control, mother. And that was... the only time you ever hear him refer to her as mother. Chesla Wechsler: And that is how Elaine figured out that they were his parents. Yeah. I wonder if that's just something they had to write in so that Elaine would have a clue, right? I I don't know how else. You could have written it differently. Like, who are these people? Well, they're my parents or something like that. But that at least. It was a nice way to do it. Mel: Yep, you're right, you're right. Because otherwise it's always... Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It was. I I just find them, I find them very off. I mean, obviously, you know, kudos to the actor and actor to Martin Clunes. I don't know the name of the actress, but they. Chesla Wechsler: Judith I'm not gonna remember right now, but Judith something. Mel: They obviously did a very good job I find them very off putting. You know, to engender that feeling in us, this obviously means they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. Chesla Wechsler: But Robert, again, we this little bit of stuff on Rosemary. We've already kind of uncovered a couple of things that we have to go check to see if we have all the information, right? But let's just assume there was a car accident. ⁓ What do you think happened? Like if we had to just spitball ideas. ⁓ Mel: Mm-hmm. So, right, so I had a couple. There's one of two options that I've kind of playing with either Robert or Vanessa were driving when it happened. And, you know, they had, they lived with the guilt of that or, and this is something that just came to me recently. One of them, maybe moreso Robert, I think, supposed to have taken the kids somewhere and couldn't or didn't for whatever reason, whether it was he got caught up at work or I even started thinking after watching, episode 9 that maybe he had a gambling problem then and he was at it, you know, he was out at a casino or doing something when should have been picking up his kids. And so somebody else went in, either his wife, who was the one who had the car accident or a nanny or ⁓ somebody and they're the ones who had the car accident. ⁓ yeah, that was kind of because as I was watching it again yesterday, I was thinking more and more about him and then ⁓ as was watching the scene with him and Martin yesterday, I was Chesla Wechsler: That's an interesting theory. Mel: looking at it through that theory that had that reason why Robert refuses to talk about it is it's not just grief, but it's guilt. ⁓ I was thinking about it. And as I was watching it more and more, seemed to me that that's what they were attempting to portray. Because at some point you could see him almost like his chin starts like he's about to break down and cry when he says, cannot, will not. Right before he says that, he opens his mouth to say, I cannot, will not talk about her. ⁓ Chesla Wechsler: Mm-hmm. Mel: And there's this point where you can tell he's literally, he's about fall apart. ⁓ But think that to me, that I cannot talk about her is grief, that I will not talk about her is guilt. Chesla Wechsler: Could be. I was thinking, and you might have mentioned it, somebody else mentioned it on the podcast comments, that there's going to be an inherent guilt in something terrible happening to your child, whether you had anything to do with it or not, because you would have that, am a parent, and I am supposed to save my, protect my children from all things like this. Mel: Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, I think that was my comment. But then you were the one who somehow caused that to happen, obviously, ⁓ think that's even, ⁓ guilt would just be amplified at that point. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, yeah. Did you happen to watch the podcast that we did for episode nine? Did you see my little PSA? What did you think? Mel: Yes. Yes. I appreciated it. As a matter of fact, I think that was the first comment I left for you on the YouTube page is that I appreciated your PSA. Chesla Wechsler: it seemed to me like when I saw the trailer for episode 9 after episode 8 and he just said, don't you think it's strange that we never talked about it. And it literally a gut punch. I can't say was what, we don't know what happened with Rosemary. We don't know Robert's involvement, anybody's involvement. don't know if there was guilt, if there was blame, if there was Mel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Chesla Wechsler: anything, right? We really are clueless about this. But is the just act of not talking about it a way of just for them to handle their grief? Can he, he will not, he cannot and will not talk about it because if he does, it will, he'll just implode, he'll just collapse. Mel: Right. Yeah, yeah, and I, yeah, I can definitely see that being a piece of it too, that the grief would just be so overwhelming that rather than dealing with it, he just has shoved it so far down that he can't and won't bring it back up because if he does, he'll just fall apart. But he's also the... Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, and if you do shove something like that down and enough years pass, it grows, you know? It just grows. Mel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. True. True. the unresolved... Having that and thinking more about that character, it almost seems to me that the unresolved grief ⁓ is reflected in him being so harsh and hard. But also, it's likely probably the gambling problem. That's... manifestation of his unresolved grief. He's doing destructive things because his grief is not resolved. So I could definitely see that. yeah, I did appreciate the PSA because I ⁓ think that happens way too often even nowadays that people just, we ⁓ have a good way of dealing with grief. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. And like I said, it just, ⁓ my father, I think he felt it was a gift. It was a coping mechanism that worked for him. And so therefore he's giving it to his kids as a tool. Right? So, you know, I don't know if Mel: Mm. Mm-hmm. Right. Chesla Wechsler: suppressing how Bests felt about things was something that they thought was a good strategy. mean, they parked Martin off with Aunt Sarah. It sounds like so, like... ⁓ gonna just get him away from this whole situation while we sort it out. So now protected, he doesn't have to deal with it. We'll figure out how to, our way of dealing with it. And then when we come back together, we never talk about it. Mel: Yeah. Yeah. break. Right, which even more surprising that they didn't talk about it considering that Vanessa is supposed to be a therapist. And you think if anybody has the tools on how to ⁓ grief or at least understanding know, you have Elizabeth Kubler-Ross and the seven stages of grief. I mean of that would have been probably most likely known to her that they still chose that route. Chesla Wechsler: Now, interestingly, I think Erica had mentioned what you mentioned too, which was the gambling could have been a way that he is not dealing, but it's an outgrowth of his grief and guilt. One that can happen, I've seen people who have a special needs child and it causes them to go to school and major in a special ed field, right? So Vanessa could potentially have said, I'm going to do a Mel: Right. Mm-hmm. She could have, yeah. Chesla Wechsler: a degree in this psychology because maybe she to counseling and Robert didn't or something. She found it useful, decided to go do it. Mel: Right, right. have a, and I ⁓ kind of think maybe her focus on radical honesty is an outcropping of her way of dealing with the grief too, is that, you know, put it all out there. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Except what hurts. she's right. So she's able to like be really honest with other people, but then she honest with herself. Mel: And that could be exactly, exactly, Right. And if, how does she react when people are that honest with her? Chesla Wechsler: Did we see any of that? I don't think so. Yeah. I hope they bring them back in more than once. I really want to see them more than once. Mel: No, no. I do too. do too. And the most somewhat real and somewhat heartfelt conversation Vanessa had was actually with Louisa. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Mel: which I found fascinating. Chesla Wechsler: I liked that conversation because it just, that seemed really real. Like Louisa was being a really good person there with respect to, not just trying to tell you something, ⁓ I just wanted you to know I understand what it's like to have your problem aired. Mel: Right. Which is interesting is now having seen, you know, episodes 10 and 11 and all the other ones, it makes it makes some of what her her reaction a little bit more understandable of not wanting, you know, not liking the town gossiping and her after Martin what he did because she once again the object of the town gossip and once her, you know, her heartbreaks were playing out in front of the town. ⁓ Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, in front of everybody. yeah. Yeah, I'm wondering how they're going to bring back Robert and Vanessa and how they're going to tell us this story. Like, is it going to be something that they give to us in dribs and drabs? Is it going to be more Martin letting things out as far as what happened? Or are we going to have to wait until they bring back his parents? And do they bring back his parents under the guise of settling Aunt Sarah's house? Like, what's going to happen with the house? Mel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm wondering that too. So I'm of thinking a couple of things about this. Like I said, I suspect Eden likely knows the Rosemary story. ⁓ So think it might come out as in his interactions with her. And then I also think if they do come back for the house, it might come back then. I could see them also though, not so much, I could see a situation where they come back for the house, but not to sell it, more to collect the money that Sarah has for them because this whole sea urchin thing, I think might give her the money she needs to buy him out. Chesla Wechsler: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. And from the standpoint of caring for the characters, I would really love for Aunt Sarah to have a nice windfall and at least break even and own her home without having the concern, even if she doesn't come out ahead from that. But in a way, I also want to see Robert and Vanessa have an opportunity to clear the decks of their debts and him stop gambling, Mel: Right. Right, me too. Right. Right. Right. Chesla Wechsler: so that they don't accumulate more and maybe he does get to retire. I don't know if he has to keep working now to pay off those debts or what. Mel: Right. Right. I mean, I actually think it would be really interesting too if the story came out through Sarah. Sarah and Martin may be talking because presumably Sarah obviously knows what happened. So I think it would be interesting to have, because they had that conversation, like you said, when she first came across him when he was a snit and was going to leave town. And he nearly ran her off the road. ⁓ But hadn't really talked about it since then, other than when when Robert and Vanessa came to visit and she said something about, I think she said something like, this all has to do with what happened. yes, yes, that's exactly what she said. And presumably it was the direct reference to Rosemary dying. So. Chesla Wechsler: I know you've had it harder than most, right? Mel: it came up then, but they've never really talked about it since then. ⁓ I think it would be interesting for the two of them to sit and talk because he didn't, she doesn't know about his blood phobia either. Chesla Wechsler: All she knows is that he froze and couldn't do the surgery, but she doesn't know that he can't treat people who are bleeding. Mel: Right, and he did abruptly run off when he cut himself when he was banding the lobsters too. And I think maybe she thought that was a little odd, I don't think it was enough for her to question him about it. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, yeah. Do you have any characters that you really enjoy? Mel: I like Al and I like Greg and George. I think they're my favorites. I don't have, I'm gonna probably preempt you on this. I don't have strong feelings for Mark one way or the other. I know a lot of people with a love or hate him. I don't have strong feelings for him one way or the other, but I do have the same question that I think a lot of people have about he and Louisa. Like how did, eight years? So. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mel: ⁓ And am a little glad to see that they appear in the past couple of episodes to be kind of be toning him down a little bit because ⁓ was getting a little over the top, but I do admit that there were some there were some points where I just found it funny. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, yeah, I thought he makes me laugh. ⁓ There's just there's a couple of key things that I just I think the writers and I don't want to be redundant on the podcast. But the thing that I just can't get past is the cutie and the goldfish, right? The fact that it and I really I think they can easily recover from that. By by just saying he didn't want to hurt Geneva's feelings, he just wanted her to think he always believed her. Mel: Yeah, me too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You're right. Chesla Wechsler: But no, of course he knows that a goldfish is not going to run off and join a rock ⁓ Mel: Right. Right. Yeah, and it's funny because when you said that I was like, you know, you're right. That really was like, how would you even think that it but I watching it I just remember. And yeah, I kind of took it as when I was watching it, I kind of took it as he was just trying to make her feel better or maybe make her laugh like, ⁓ I didn't know that my goldfish is gonna run away. But the way he said he said the way he said it almost on it like Like you would sound if you told a kid that Santa Claus wasn't real, they were finding it out for the first time, like, oh my God, I didn't know this. And then after he leaves, know, Jeannie would say something like, how did he ever get into law enforcement? And Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I swear to God, I thought that this was like, since there's no crime in Port Wenn, it was just a job they could give to Mark. There's nothing else he's really capable of. We'll give him this job, which requires nothing of him but to write parking tickets. Mel: Right, right. Right. Yeah, though he does have to be smart enough to not shoot himself in the foot too, so. Chesla Wechsler: Yes, yes, this is true. Hopefully he'll never have to use his weapon. But I believe that this every first season is just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. And these writers are talented, these actors are talented, the director is talented, everybody is talented. And so I expect season, I expect great things from season two. I really. Mel: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do too. Chesla Wechsler: I want to learn about that damn accident, but I really want to hear it from Robert and Vanessa, I have to admit. Because maybe we learn about it. I guess we don't have to learn about it from them, but Martin and Vanessa and Robert, or at least Martin and Robert, have to have a conversation. Mel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they need to have it out. Because I don't, I know, and I think I've said this in multiple comments in multiple places. I know Martin is trying to like cure his blood phobia, but I don't think he's really gonna cure it until he deals with that trauma because it's a trauma-based reaction. And so whether that's him finally going to therapy, whether that's him talking it out with his father, I mean, you do see him. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mel: which I find fascinating. You do see him getting progressively better as the season progresses as he does start talking about what happened and opening up more. It's very subtle, but you do see it because, and you know, in the first season when the woman actually, who I think when I went back and watched, realized it's Peter Cronk's mother. When she pulls the bandage off and shows it, he runs out ⁓ he passes out. And then in the next episode when he fires Elaine and then she finds Chesla Wechsler: Mm-hmm. Mel: Same thing. So, and then you get to the point where he can at least like actually do surgery on Peter without passing out. I mean he obviously, you know, thinks he's gonna vomit, but none of that actually happens. So he is improving, but he's still not at the point where he can deal with blood on a regular basis. Chesla Wechsler: Right. I had heard a rumor, I believe this is supposed to be a five season show. I don't know. That's what I heard early on. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it sounded like they were trying to make it a five season show that would give them about 60 episodes. We have 13 under our belt now, of course we're only gonna get 12, so that's 25. Anyway, but I'm just wondering like, if he resolves his blood phobia, when's he gonna resolve it? And then what is the show? Mel: ⁓ okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Chesla Wechsler: ⁓ it out there, there's no reason why it can't be a show about them. ⁓ all have come to know and love this group. Is it really a requirement that Martin Best have a blood phobia for this show? I don't know. Mel: Right. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know either. mean, obviously with the, you know, with the investigation and that he's going to have to do something about it or show that he's doing something about it, I would think in order to either retain his license or not be disciplined when whether that's ensuring that Elaine is licensed, we're finding her paperwork or, you know, I could see part of the board's requirements being that he goes to some sort of therapy and starts dealing with the issue, so that he doesn't have to keep hiring or farming that out. So I mean, I could see a point where, I could see it being a long-term thing, but I could also see a point where that reporting him to the medical board forces him to with it. ⁓ Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Yeah, in a way that they monitor. Yeah, yeah. A couple of people have mentioned on Facebook pages that in the state of Maine, you do not need a license to be a phlebotomist. And so like, we're all assuming that you need that. But your point that you just made, which is it was reported to the board, it doesn't necessarily do. Do you recall what the phrasing said? Like, was it against Elaine doing it or was it just that they'd heard from the medical board? Mel: Right. Exactly. Mm. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. I think it was just that he heard from the medical board, I thought Geneva had something like, I thought she said like, I'm trying to remember, there was some phrasing about taking blood or having an unlicensed person taking blood, which I would think would be interesting because you would think if, if Glendon was reporting to that, that to the medical board and the medical board knew it wasn't a problem, then they would say, but they may not know whether Elaine is properly, because he, Chesla Wechsler: Okay. Mel: Even if she only has to have, they don't know anything about her. Medical Board doesn't know anything about her. They don't know whether she's graduated from high school. They don't know, you know, they don't know anything about her. So all they know is that somebody has reported this doctor for allowing someone to take blood who presumably shouldn't be. Chesla Wechsler: Maybe she needs to be registered or something. All right, all right. And now I'm gonna have to watch... Mel: So it will be interesting to see if they do with what Maine law actually is or if they do the drama, more drama of she was supposed to be a phlebotomist. ⁓ what I find fascinating is that, presumably she was doing this for years with the other doctor. ⁓ I would think that he would have made sure to get her, that everything she was doing was above board. But also a small town, so I can see where people were just, this is just how it was done. People didn't care. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. If you can't prove that there was a problem caused by it and no one was hurt, nobody even said that they were bruised, you know, like the... ⁓ Mel: As long as nothing happened, nobody cared. Right. Right. Right. It's kind of like what he was saying when went in, you know, Glenn, when he when Glendon had first threatened to report him is fell into that trap of what in this town do where you just assume everything's going to be okay. Chesla Wechsler: Right, yeah, yeah, cool. How about Eden? Mel: Yeah, she interests me. I think I mean, you're other fan guests I thought had a good point about how is very much like him in a lot of ways, but that might necessarily be a good thing for him right now because he's finally starting to kind of come out of a shell a little bit. And I could see him gravitating to what's familiar. ⁓ I think you made that point that, know, Louisa did that. She came back from New York and went gravitating to what's familiar. But there has been a significant amount of growth this season with him. And it would be sad to see that start to disappear. But I also don't know. I it, like you said, I know what she wants, but I don't know if he really, I feel like he's just kind of going with the flow with her. Like she said, ⁓ I'm here to date you. He's like, ⁓ okay. Right. Chesla Wechsler: It's flattering, right? I think he was flattered. Yeah. Mel: Right, I think he probably was too. But I also was a little turned off by the fact that she was like telling him how to feel about things like, oh, you know, do you know, you know, the teacher, you guys aren't compatible. And he's like, yeah, I know. Well, you don't get to tell her, tell him that. So. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. And yet he agrees. And it's like, what the heck, Martin? That's not how you feel. You you feel. I got the sense that you did too, which was he's not worthy. So how could Louisa not be worthy of him if he doesn't feel worthy of her? Right. So they can't have those two things at the same time. Yeah. Mel: Right. I know. I know. I know. Right. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. he's, you know, did find it interesting that Eden saw the hug. Because I think she saw the depth ⁓ their feelings for one another. there's face he's hugging her, you know, he's smiling and he's just, ⁓ and she's only one who's allowed to touch him. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, that's true. Mel: and hug him. Nobody else. Even Aunt Sarah. He's like, no. Yeah. Chesla Wechsler: No. Please, please, please stop hugging me or something like that. I ⁓ Mel: Mm-hmm. Yeah Yeah, cuz then episode 9 after they have that conversation about him no longer coming to visit her, she hugs him he's just like 'Okay, if you must.' But like but that hug with Louisa in episode 13 like he melted into that it was it was interesting to see. I've been thinking more about Eden. I I'm very curious to know Chesla Wechsler: Yes. Yeah. Mel: And I don't know why I'm curious about this, I just am. Eden would have thought of Robert and Vanessa. I could see them being very, ⁓ could see them being much alike, but I could also see them clashing ⁓ in lot of ways. Chesla Wechsler: I, one would think they know each other. Mel: Yeah, I would imagine that they do. I mean, and that's what I mean. I like, I started thinking about it when I was watching episode nine yesterday and I was watching Vanessa's interactions with Louisa, because I was like, it's obvious she already likes Louisa. And, you know, even tells Louisa that Martin would be a fool not to love you. So it's just, and then, you know, we now know Eden's back in the picture and I'm just, I was just fascinated thinking, like, how they have all interacted with one another. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mel: I think it would be interesting to see. And I think other people, you know, it's very similar to other people have said that she is socially awkward in many ways, and she's also very abrupt in many ways. But I think she also have a little bit more openness about her in some ways, in sense that she, like you, I think you were saying she like she attempts to crack jokes, ⁓ at very least. Chesla Wechsler: Okay. Mel: But she's also very, like, you need to have a baby now. You need to do this now, very, just very, ⁓ Chesla Wechsler: spontaneous? ⁓ Okay. I find her flighty. I find her flighty and scattered. Mel: Forceful, yeah. And I could. I can see it. I could see it. Where, yeah, I could kind of see that. ⁓ Chesla Wechsler: Because the whole idea of the baby is kind of like, it just pops into her head. Like, I'm looking at these cubs and now I'm like, I gotta have a baby ⁓ do I do? ⁓ me just, you know, let's... Mel: ⁓ Louisa? Yeah, no, I thought you were referring to Eden. I agree with you. I find Louisa flighty. ⁓ And I yeah, that whole plot point in episode 11 just as how that came about really didn't sit well with me. That's my least favorite episode. And it's also the one I haven't watched again. ⁓ For that reason, it just there were so many things in that episode that just infuriated me. But yeah, her suddenly I'm watching all these all these cute videos and suddenly I want to have a baby gets and when the school is going to close and all this stuff is happening. Chesla Wechsler: Yes, yes. ⁓ funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I not for nothing, lady. You might not have a job. Is this the best time? I don't know. Mel: Yeah. Right, right. And also, I mean, I, you know. Having it, raising a child is hard enough with two people. And doing it on your own. I mean, people do, but it just, I feel like it was, that's a life-changing decision. It was the result of like an afternoon drinking in a pub and watching, you know, watching animal videos. But I also think it's a result of, so I've had this thought Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Mel: with Louisa, for whatever reason, I think she feels, we were talking about worthiness, she has her own issues with feeling unworthy. I think she feels needs to be loved and she needs something to love, which I have a feeling is a lot of the reason why she stayed with Mark for so long. And it sounds like she went directly from this boyfriend in New York back to Port Wenn, right to Mark, and now presumably was gonna go right to Martin. Thinking back on it, in some ways, I don't think it's a bad idea for her to spend some time single and figuring out what she wants, ⁓ she didn't do that. She went from, I don't want to date you to ⁓ I'm to have a baby. And it is almost as if she's using it, ⁓ using baby as something that she can love that will love her. It's a very simplistic view. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. time to get a goldfish. ⁓ Let's start small. Mel: Or a dog. Or a cat. Or... ⁓ Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, with Mark, I just like if she did sound in that very first episode as if her heart was broken, like she really loved the guy in New York. And then she falls back with Mark, her high school boyfriend. And I had the opinion that I've known several couples where... they're a couple, they're dating, they're living together, everything but walking down the aisle for years. And then somebody, there's a reason for that. And that's because somebody, one of those two, or both of those two have not wanted to commit. Or there's a very fundamental ⁓ disagreement. Like maybe one really wants children and one really doesn't want children and they realize they can't give each other what they want. But then like, Mel: Right, right. Right. Right. Bye. Right. Chesla Wechsler: until you force the issue of the thing, which could have been just getting married. Maybe Mark was like, let's get married. And they would stay together as long as he wasn't pushing the marriage thing. But all of a sudden, pushing the marriage, Louise is like, I just can't do that step. Yeah. It's comfortable, but now it's... Mel: Right. Yeah, it becomes real at that point. Yeah, because that's the bigger step. Yeah, because that's the step where it takes a I mean, right now they're in relationship where literally she can just walk away. Once you're married, that's a lot. Really. There's more involved. Right. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, that's yeah, a more paperwork and property dispersals and did you change your name and like all these wonderful things. Mel: Right, exactly. Exactly. I mean, and then, you you get to the end of the season episode where he's like, let's have a baby together. And I'm like, dude, if you were together for eight years, you could have done this when you were together. And all of a sudden, and then ⁓ fascinating, of having gone back to watch episode nine, like I said, last night. And at the end, before he's being put in the ambulance, he tells the Louise I almost died being mad at the I love. It's time for me to move on, but then I'm thinking, okay, well, you were mad at Martin for kissing her. And now you want to have a baby with her, like, you have not moved on. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, because even when he's saying just as friends, you look at his eyes and those eyes are glittering a little bit like, you know, like maybe this is the best I can do. This is, know, we'll still have a connection. Mel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly, that's what I was about to say. He sees it as a good way of tying her to him in some way. And I don't, I feel like I came out probably sounding a little more creepy than I meant it, but a child would mean that they always have to kind of be together in some way. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. I mean, two people who have no children can get divorced much easier than two people who are not married can separate from the child that they brought into the world together. Mel: Right. Right. Right, right, right. And like, for instance, if they had had a child already, it probably would have been much harder for Louisa to make that decision to walk away and not marry him. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because you have another person to think about. Yeah. Mel: Exactly, Yeah. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah. Well, this has been fun. Yes. I'm glad. I'm glad. Mel: It has been. I really enjoyed it. Chesla Wechsler: Yeah, I really appreciated your time and coming here and sharing your views on all this stuff. And folks, if you're watching or listening, please subscribe to the feed, like the video or the audio that you're listening to. I do respond to comments on YouTube. So that's how Mel's here. So thanks much for watching, everybody. Really appreciate it.