Latest / age / Ep. 03: Remote Work, Connection & The Culture We're Losing

Transcript

Ep. 03: Remote Work, Connection & The Culture We're Losing · age

• 0:00
  Tell me what was your favorite part of today's episode?
• 0:03
  When Will, off camera, taught us about a new version of extrovert introvert in the middle area.
• 0:07
  Yeah, what about you?
• 0:09
  I always hold a talk about Hannah Montana.
• 0:10
  Oh!
• 0:11
  I liked Adrienne's wings.
• 0:13
  Oh! Adrienne?
• 0:15
  I like to say I'm gonna say whatever was on my mind and not get judged for it.
• 0:18
  Oh yeah!
• 0:19
  Um, I think mine was, sorry mom, I told you to get off your ass, but I really meant it.
• 0:25
  Have you ever been in a store and you're like talking to people, this is the thing I
• 0:40
  wrote in my family where it's like, we strike up conversation with strangers.
• 0:44
  And then I felt like, well now I've got to buy something, like I'm too invested with
• 0:47
  this store person.
• 0:48
  They're going out of business, they're losing their jobs, I don't know.
• 0:52
  You feel like you're supporting him at that point?
• 0:54
  Yeah, it was a charity case.
• 0:56
  All right, you want to start?
• 0:58
  I'm going to try out a new intro, let's see how this goes.
• 1:01
  Let's go crazy.
• 1:02
  Ready?
• 1:05
  This is age.
• 1:06
  The podcast where we talk for a long time about something we randomly pull out of a trash
• 1:10
  hand.
• 1:11
  But what is it really?
• 1:13
  We're all in a culture where we're aging much slower than the culture around us is aging.
• 1:19
  And some of us feel like we're just arriving?
• 1:21
  No, sorry.
• 1:22
  Let's do it again.
• 1:23
  You're just arriving.
• 1:25
  Ready?
• 1:26
  I think we can pull that in.
• 1:27
  No, this is age.
• 1:29
  The podcast where we have an incredibly long conversation about something we randomly
• 1:33
  pull out of a trash can.
• 1:34
  But what is it really?
• 1:36
  We're in a culture where we're aging much slower than everything around us.
• 1:40
  Some of us feel like we're ahead of our time.
• 1:43
  Some of us feel like we're aging out.
• 1:46
  Others of us feel, how do you feel, Adrian?
• 1:49
  How do I'm swimming in a sea of multi-age people and I'm like, what land am I in?
• 1:55
  Right.
• 1:56
  The fast lane.
• 1:57
  The floating.
• 1:58
  Yes.
• 1:59
  And then others of us feel like we're just arriving.
• 2:00
  I'm just here.
• 2:01
  I just got here.
• 2:04
  So age is a weekly experiment we do to discuss the meaning of it all.
• 2:10
  Through randomness, through casual improv and through just live conversation.
• 2:18
  So we invite you into this experience that you definitely don't have time for.
• 2:23
  Welcome to age.
• 2:24
  Let's pull the topic out of the beach.
• 2:26
  I'm so glad you finally figured out what this podcast is about.
• 2:29
  I love that it was going to work.
• 2:31
  I'm excited to go.
• 2:32
  But I told you.
• 2:33
  Can I tell you an improv moment?
• 2:35
  Since you said improv.
• 2:36
  Yeah.
• 2:37
  We were at the zoo yesterday, day before.
• 2:39
  You're welcome.
• 2:40
  We're watching some chimpanzees and we've been at the zoo for a while.
• 2:43
  It's raining so the animals are really active and it's best to do experience in my life.
• 2:48
  And we're watching the chimps and Alex goes, wow, and then we're with this other friend
• 2:51
  Rebecca and she goes, wow, and they just keep going, wow, like on accident.
• 2:56
  And this little like six-year-old girl walks up to them and goes, stop saying wow.
• 3:00
  And they're like, Alex is like really comfortable with kids.
• 3:03
  He's like, you're not saying wow right now?
• 3:05
  This is so wow.
• 3:06
  She's like, it's like, stop saying wow.
• 3:08
  I have a gun.
• 3:09
  Whoa.
• 3:10
  She don't really have a gun.
• 3:11
  Wow.
• 3:12
  She holds her hands up like this.
• 3:16
  I don't forget what they said next.
• 3:18
  You said, I'm the police.
• 3:19
  If I wasn't a commentary on you culture, I was like scared at the same time, but also that
• 3:24
  she like went on this whole thing.
• 3:26
  She's like, you're a gorilla.
• 3:27
  Oh my.
• 3:28
  It's amazing.
• 3:29
  So anyway, you said it.
• 3:30
  I love that.
• 3:31
  I was like, get her off stage yesterday.
• 3:34
  I mean, it's terrifying.
• 3:35
  This topic is oddly applicable being that our fourth is remote.
• 3:41
  Oh.
• 3:42
  Remote is the topic.
• 3:43
  Oh god.
• 3:45
  It's already hard to go through a moment with remote.
• 3:48
  Oh man.
• 3:49
  That's true.
• 3:50
  That's true.
• 3:51
  So like, that's the first thing that just pops in your mind when you hear the topic.
• 3:55
  I have trauma from high school when COVID shut down.
• 3:59
  Oh.
• 4:00
  They were like.
• 4:01
  It's about about that one too.
• 4:02
  We're going remote.
• 4:03
  Oh.
• 4:04
  And I, me and one of my friends, when we found out spring break, we were like, what are
• 4:08
  those spring break for like three weeks?
• 4:10
  Yeah.
• 4:11
  My family had a place down in St. Augustine, so we're like, we're going to go remote.
• 4:15
  We're watching like the NC, like, education guy and he's like, yeah, no, we're going back
• 4:21
  to school.
• 4:22
  We're making plans for like next year for you guys to be remote.
• 4:24
  And I was like, this is going to suck.
• 4:26
  Oh god.
• 4:27
  It did suck.
• 4:28
  I didn't learn anything my senior year by the way.
• 4:30
  So it sucked.
• 4:31
  But that is my first.
• 4:32
  It's funny.
• 4:33
  It's been made as big of an impression on me, obviously, because I wasn't in school.
• 4:37
  But it just wrecked.
• 4:38
  Yeah.
• 4:39
  Yeah.
• 4:40
  Who were the generation that I was thinking of when it happened?
• 4:42
  I was like, cock.
• 4:43
  That's right.
• 4:44
  That's right.
• 4:45
  That's right.
• 4:46
  That's right.
• 4:47
  Yeah.
• 4:48
  That's right.
• 4:49
  Yeah.
• 4:50
  And they would do it remotely and I was like, this suck.
• 4:51
  Yeah.
• 4:52
  Not the same.
• 4:53
  No.
• 4:54
  Not the same.
• 4:55
  I was still burned out in the zoom.
• 4:56
  I remember.
• 4:57
  Yeah.
• 4:58
  So I had to go through this.
• 4:59
  Oh, it's okay.
• 5:00
  I'm learning.
• 5:01
  I'm learning.
• 5:02
  Did you, um, we want to dwell on it?
• 5:03
  I could follow you.
• 5:04
  But did you like have all the tech and stuff that you needed?
• 5:06
  No.
• 5:07
  Our school was thankfully enough to be like sponsored by Apple at the time.
• 5:10
  So we all got our iPads to go home.
• 5:14
  So that was interesting.
• 5:15
  I live in the middle of nowhere and we just got Wi-Fi at my parents house two years ago.
• 5:21
  That was a thing.
• 5:22
  The Dow County was like, most of the kids didn't have, it's like cell phones were the way
• 5:26
  that they used to be.
• 5:27
  Is that how they could remotely?
• 5:28
  Yeah.
• 5:29
  Yeah.
• 5:30
  It was really like nobody, nobody knew what they were doing.
• 5:32
  It would have been easier transition like if we lived in somewhere like a metro city area
• 5:37
  or living in the middle of nowhere.
• 5:39
  So I remember a former colleague of ours and I were talking about, um, yeah, let's switch
• 5:46
  to our note.
• 5:47
  And the idea of like Wi-Fi deserts, it's like a food desert, you know, like you can live
• 5:54
  with people but you might not have the resources that you need.
• 5:57
  You might not be able to afford internet for whatever reason or they haven't run the line
• 6:00
  out to your house.
• 6:02
  And like that was a foreign concept to this person who had been raised in, not America.
• 6:07
  I'm sorry, I'm just like dropping into the Adrian.
• 6:11
  And yeah, I had then lived in New York City for the rest of their lives.
• 6:15
  Yeah.
• 6:16
  Like, oh yeah, there's definitely places that aren't there yet.
• 6:19
  My, I guess.
• 6:20
  Speaking of Adrian, I wanted to teach you real quick.
• 6:22
  Sure.
• 6:23
  Oh, please.
• 6:24
  I did, I did point at her.
• 6:25
  It's a victory person.
• 6:26
  Right.
• 6:27
  So Reggie's out on vacation with his family.
• 6:28
  Hope you have fun Reggie.
• 6:29
  Yeah.
• 6:30
  We brought in a really good friend and colleague, Adrian.
• 6:33
  Well, this is actually perfect segue from remote because I am here in Asheville because of
• 6:38
  remote working.
• 6:39
  That's what brought me here.
• 6:40
  But I'm Adrian, you can, I run a little brandy agency called East 12 Studio.
• 6:46
  We specialize in CPG food and beverage for pets and people, consumer package, consumer
• 6:52
  package.
• 6:53
  You put that over there to pitch you down.
• 6:55
  Oh, she knows.
• 6:56
  I've been trying for a while.
• 6:58
  To people.
• 6:59
  She's got it.
• 7:00
  Yeah, it's incredible.
• 7:01
  But yeah, I met, well, can I give this?
• 7:04
  Oh, okay.
• 7:05
  Adrian, I worked together previously in a different location and I met these lovely folks here
• 7:11
  because my job went remote and I got to move from New York City, which I never thought
• 7:16
  I'd be able to do.
• 7:17
  I always thought, like, oh, if I'm going to have a job, I have to be in some metro area.
• 7:21
  Right.
• 7:22
  And then remote work happened and I was like, it took me like a few years.
• 7:25
  But then I was like, wait a minute.
• 7:28
  Everyone else is working remotely.
• 7:30
  I could do it.
• 7:31
  So you were staying, you just stayed there for a while and then?
• 7:33
  Yeah, I stayed there for like almost all of the pandemic and then I was like.
• 7:37
  The worst place to be during the pandemic.
• 7:39
  Yeah, it was pretty awful.
• 7:42
  It was like locked down for three years.
• 7:44
  But after I got through the trauma of that, my brain would be able to open up and I was
• 7:48
  like, hey, I could live anywhere.
• 7:51
  And you came to Nashville, North Carolina.
• 7:53
  Yeah.
• 7:54
  Long story short.
• 7:55
  You had some family ties here.
• 7:56
  I had family here.
• 7:57
  So I'd been here before.
• 7:58
  But then the pandemic, like, my partner, we started traveling down here, staying a little
• 8:04
  bit longer than our last trip.
• 8:05
  We were like, let's not go back.
• 8:07
  Let's see if we can stay.
• 8:09
  And then Adrienne and I, we had worked together remotely and we would like see each other
• 8:13
  on Zoom all the time.
• 8:14
  And every so often, you would be in town and maybe we would be able to cross paths and
• 8:17
  maybe we wouldn't.
• 8:18
  But then one day, I'm working in the center for craft.
• 8:21
  And like, they've got this center.
• 8:22
  Like, if you have a desk month to month, you, I call it the fish bowl area.
• 8:27
  And I look over and I'm like, who is that working in the back corner?
• 8:31
  And I think I like pop my head on the other side.
• 8:33
  My hair was very different.
• 8:35
  I think the last time you would see me, oh, thank you.
• 8:39
  We've been on that journey.
• 8:40
  She can't tell herself.
• 8:41
  Can you?
• 8:42
  I can't tell you things like that too.
• 8:44
  Maybe.
• 8:45
  I want a secret.
• 8:46
  People need to know.
• 8:47
  It looks great.
• 8:48
  It's a thank you very much.
• 8:50
  I'm particularly glad, Adrian, is here.
• 8:53
  And I think that when Reggie was going to go on vacation, we debated, should we just cancel
• 8:58
  this week?
• 8:59
  And I was like, oh, we just figured out how to do this thing.
• 9:01
  The third one.
• 9:02
  We're going to forget how to ride this bike if we get off of it right now.
• 9:05
  And also, I was like, we just got so many incredible people in our orbit.
• 9:10
  And I think you're the first.
• 9:13
  So all right, we were like the first person to touch the mic.
• 9:17
  I'm sorry.
• 9:18
  I'm sorry.
• 9:19
  I'm a chair.
• 9:20
  But yeah, I just can't say, I will not be too effusive, I'll try, but like Adrian, I've
• 9:28
  done, I've written a couple of peer reviews for Adrian at a previous life.
• 9:32
  That does were anonymous.
• 9:33
  Now you know.
• 9:34
  Now you're going to take credit.
• 9:35
  But I think the thing that always popped out to me about Adrian and the thing that I
• 9:43
  still, I bring you up more than I'm proud to say in the office.
• 9:48
  But like Adrian.
• 9:49
  But it's so sweet.
• 9:50
  Stop.
• 9:51
  Don't stop.
• 9:52
  Keep going.
• 9:53
  She is an incredible creative, I mean, obviously like a guru in the packaging world, which
• 10:00
  is such like a dense design assignment, I think.
• 10:04
  But the thing that really struck me and made Adrian special in my mind was she is probably
• 10:10
  the most impressive person I've ever met in terms of like crossing mid-brain and being
• 10:15
  like, I can use my creative, la, la, la, brain and also you could like, keep the ship
• 10:22
  a explode and like, steering in the right direction.
• 10:25
  Not to find all the money.
• 10:27
  And like, let's ask a few clarifying questions before I like throw some shit at the wall
• 10:32
  and hope that it, you know, looks fine and it made you like an incredible advocate for
• 10:38
  or I think creatives who came to work underneath you and she develops talent in a really
• 10:43
  beautiful way.
• 10:44
  So I'm very, you're a really good get for this episode.
• 10:48
  We're so happy to have you on.
• 10:49
  Yeah.
• 10:50
  You guys, thank you.
• 10:51
  I'm trying to like not touch my mic and also be emoted and I'm also very like a person
• 10:57
  with my hands.
• 10:58
  Now I probably like very awkward.
• 11:00
  I'm like, thank you.
• 11:01
  You want to put your heart, but I think I can't do that.
• 11:04
  Thank you.
• 11:06
  We won't do any more of that.
• 11:07
  And now it's over.
• 11:08
  And now it's over back to the topic.
• 11:10
  Yes.
• 11:11
  So remote.
• 11:12
  So remote brought us here today.
• 11:13
  What a gift.
• 11:14
  But I didn't think about the same.
• 11:16
  I guess it's my age.
• 11:17
  Yeah.
• 11:18
  I have.
• 11:19
  Yeah.
• 11:20
  I have this, this sound system that Reggie gave me to set up and it comes with its own
• 11:23
  old remote.
• 11:24
  Oh.
• 11:25
  And now, yeah, it's old.
• 11:26
  Like it looks like an old, I mean, it may not be that old, but it looks ancient compared
• 11:30
  to the little Apple remote that sits next to it.
• 11:32
  And then it also have my Sony Abrovia remote.
• 11:34
  So they're all sitting there.
• 11:36
  And it's annoying because I have to get up from the couch and I have to grab the remote
• 11:39
  and go through it.
• 11:40
  Which one is it?
• 11:41
  Yeah.
• 11:42
  Turn this one up and that one on and push the right button.
• 11:44
  So that's what I thought of.
• 11:46
  I, you know, I figured out a beat later that that's what it was.
• 11:50
  I also the first thing in my mind is this little remote control remote remote.
• 11:55
  So I don't know what that means about us living in this like analog world.
• 11:59
  What does that mean?
• 12:00
  You know that there's like an age gap.
• 12:02
  You're experiencing, you know, like school being all remote and I'm experiencing like watching
• 12:06
  TV.
• 12:07
  I wonder what that word, you know, like when words exist over time, they change and they
• 12:13
  mean something different.
• 12:14
  And my son's always telling me random words that I didn't know the words and they may
• 12:18
  not be yet.
• 12:19
  They may just be.
• 12:20
  You know what I want to share an example?
• 12:22
  You know, like, well, I think all of them are letters actually like, we're shortening.
• 12:27
  Shortening.
• 12:28
  Yeah.
• 12:29
  Yeah.
• 12:30
  Right.
• 12:31
  It's, it's like reddit or not reddit, um, discord, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's all
• 12:38
  acronyms and stuff.
• 12:39
  Right acronyms.
• 12:40
  And these other words, and my mind blank, I wish I, you're going to have to educate and
• 12:46
  better.
• 12:47
  Maybe I can ask him and then I'll put him in the description because they're, they're
• 12:51
  good.
• 12:52
  Oh, if we need to bleep your son's name, we can do that.
• 12:55
  So that was probably not kosher.
• 12:57
  I asked when they came into the office the other day, I was like, I'm like, your generation,
• 13:01
  are you going to watch the podcast?
• 13:02
  And he's like, no.
• 13:03
  Absolutely.
• 13:04
  He said no.
• 13:05
  So he was like, no.
• 13:06
  Not for you, not for my dad.
• 13:07
  Hard though.
• 13:08
  Yeah.
• 13:09
  Hard though.
• 13:10
  Who really will watch?
• 13:11
  I mean, there's so many buyers.
• 13:12
  You know, like, these are the questions.
• 13:14
  My son is so honest.
• 13:15
  I was trying to pitch it to Adrian.
• 13:17
  I was trying to.
• 13:18
  It's a little bit.
• 13:19
  Yeah.
• 13:21
  Yeah.
• 13:22
  But just before we go on, will, would you mind to grab a glass of water because we didn't
• 13:28
  offer one to Adrian earlier?
• 13:30
  There's clubs in the kitchen.
• 13:33
  You can just pick one out of the cabinet in the kitchen.
• 13:36
  I just realized, Tim's over here drinking.
• 13:37
  I'm over here drinking.
• 13:38
  You know you can drink whenever you want and we never offer them.
• 13:40
  Oh, I'm like a dog.
• 13:41
  We're saying you can watch the water bowl.
• 13:43
  You can drink whatever you want.
• 13:45
  We'll bring the water bowl to you.
• 13:47
  Yes, studio.
• 13:49
  I thought, well, it wasn't the first thing I thought of when you said, but when I think
• 13:54
  of remote, yeah, there's like a lot of sadness in some ways about it.
• 13:57
  But the first job I had that let me work remote was at this really big agency.
• 14:02
  And my boss was based out of Boston.
• 14:04
  But they had a New York location that I like had the option to go into dream world
• 14:10
  where you can go in, but you don't have to go in.
• 14:13
  It's like a sexy office that's like really stocked and that kind of thing.
• 14:16
  But the whole time I was like, wow, there's something dreamy about this to me because
• 14:21
  like I could go.
• 14:22
  I talk about this all the time.
• 14:23
  I could go to Italy for a week and like technically if I'm willing to keep those hours,
• 14:27
  like it's not locationally based.
• 14:30
  Yeah.
• 14:31
  I think that's something that's always bothered me.
• 14:33
  Thank you.
• 14:34
  Sorry.
• 14:35
  Thank you.
• 14:36
  There you have it.
• 14:37
  We just kept knocking on to our chair.
• 14:39
  Okay.
• 14:40
  And you probably hit the chair on the way down.
• 14:41
  Yeah.
• 14:42
  And don't worry.
• 14:43
  We'll put it in the edit.
• 14:44
  Like everybody will love it.
• 14:45
  But I'm on the topic of remote.
• 14:47
  Real remote.
• 14:48
  Yeah.
• 14:49
  Now that we've got another we're here.
• 14:50
  Another current century.
• 14:51
  I'm going through a little bit of a remote renaissance.
• 14:54
  Wow.
• 14:55
  And it's due to you, Mary.
• 14:56
  I think that I've experienced and pushed against hard couriers remote.
• 15:00
  I hated my kids being remote because I feel like they got a whole jaded experience
• 15:04
  from that.
• 15:05
  Yeah.
• 15:06
  And I didn't want to go remote as a designer.
• 15:09
  I love working with people in real space and time.
• 15:11
  I don't like the tools largely until I'm at Mary.
• 15:15
  At 40 hearts, we're trying to create a virtual office, which I originally felt a little
• 15:19
  bit of a traumatic maybe tinged against.
• 15:24
  But now I'm seeing this potential, the ability to travel and move.
• 15:29
  When you set the tools up right, they're starting to feel better to me than they have
• 15:33
  in the past.
• 15:34
  But I think it's like the different paths of communication that to me feel heavy about
• 15:39
  being remote.
• 15:40
  And when I was watching my kids, there's like power school and there's this other app
• 15:46
  they're supposed to get on and do this and then there's the tech stack, that they didn't
• 15:50
  actually hold in their mind.
• 15:53
  So it's not like they're learning school stuff.
• 15:56
  They're actually learning how to use technology is really the learning and the happy technology
• 16:01
  because the government and schools get to it last.
• 16:04
  And it wasn't ever optimized for remote school when that happened.
• 16:08
  They optimize it along the way on the kids, on the fly.
• 16:13
  So teachers are just flying off the cuff, trying to do whatever they can to survive and
• 16:17
  keep things moving.
• 16:19
  And then kids are like playing Minecraft on the side, and it's just this circus happening.
• 16:25
  And so remote, and even before, I think remote was a thing before COVID hit, you know, people
• 16:29
  like talking about going remote and then whether or not corporate should inhibit that, whether
• 16:35
  they should require people to be in.
• 16:37
  Well, then there was like this expansion contraction thing that happened.
• 16:40
  It's going back, right?
• 16:42
  It's going back hard.
• 16:43
  Yeah.
• 16:44
  So I was talking to someone locally and they were talking about how they were remote from
• 16:47
  New York City, but the work started to dry up because he even got offered a really great
• 16:54
  job in the firm or the agency that wanted him to come back, so you have to be here at
• 16:59
  three days a week.
• 17:00
  Yeah.
• 17:01
  Yeah.
• 17:02
  He can travel as a kid.
• 17:04
  I wonder what it's starting to mean now.
• 17:07
  And why it's shifting, like we're a small agency and we're creating a virtual office so
• 17:11
  we can do it more, but other agencies, I think, I don't know if it's a productivity thing.
• 17:16
  That's so many ideas.
• 17:17
  I've so many thoughts.
• 17:18
  Say it.
• 17:19
  I thought about this a lot.
• 17:21
  And maybe there are a little teeth.
• 17:23
  No, this is the talk.
• 17:24
  This is the part of the conversation we talk about what drives us crazy about it.
• 17:27
  I feel like in the more, I think it's agencies, but corporations, I hate to say this.
• 17:33
  I think the thing that rides a lot of it is real estate, and only because I've heard
• 17:37
  this from some business owners that have very expensive real estate that are locked into
• 17:43
  leafes and are like, we have to leave that.
• 17:45
  Well, I just did a $5 million renovation on this space and I'm locked into this lease
• 17:50
  for 10 years.
• 17:52
  It's kind of practical.
• 17:53
  I got to, I have to use it.
• 17:55
  Yeah.
• 17:56
  I think, but that's like very like business reason for it.
• 18:01
  I think the corporate folks, I've heard is that there's like this fear of, I think it's
• 18:08
  a real estate too, because they all usually own very expensive pieces of real estate are
• 18:13
  invested and bought property.
• 18:15
  But also, I think it's like, there's this fear that if I can't see the people working,
• 18:20
  they're not doing the work.
• 18:21
  Totally.
• 18:22
  This is like an old thing.
• 18:23
  I think this people have always felt this and I'm like, well, we just went through this
• 18:25
  whole period where no one was hearing all the businesses kept going.
• 18:28
  It's like this old philosophy of, if I can't see you doing, like, you know, what is
• 18:34
  nothing like a tree falls in the wood here?
• 18:37
  I hear it.
• 18:38
  Yeah, it's like if someone's, if someone's, I can't see them working, are they really
• 18:41
  working?
• 18:42
  Yeah.
• 18:43
  And I think it's like a control thing for a lot of these companies that don't trust their
• 18:48
  employees.
• 18:49
  I was actually just listening to a podcast on the way here this morning and they were
• 18:52
  talking about intrinsic versus extrinsic value.
• 18:55
  And I think this is an underlying issue is that in the research, when you pay someone
• 19:00
  to do something, they lose intrinsic value for that thing.
• 19:04
  No matter if it started as a really core thing to them, you pay them for it and it devalues
• 19:09
  it from their intrinsic point of view.
• 19:10
  It pulls it into an extrinsic value, which is something you get a reward for.
• 19:14
  So I wonder if, in this may relate to what Forty Hearts mission is in creating inner
• 19:19
  brand, inside an organization, so that the values and the meaning for being there is
• 19:25
  lived.
• 19:26
  Yeah.
• 19:27
  And so I wonder if these employees don't even really want to be there.
• 19:30
  I think that you're wondering.
• 19:32
  And so the impression, like, it worked because they don't want to work.
• 19:36
  They're avoiding it or they dread it.
• 19:38
  And I wonder, like, this is, I'm always this guy and I kind of hate being this guy, but
• 19:42
  if there was another one of these guys in the room, I wouldn't be.
• 19:46
  But I think that there is, you know, both sides can be true.
• 19:49
  In one way, I think it's obnoxious that people, managers feel like they need to be right
• 19:54
  there every second.
• 19:55
  That's clearly not, like, a dignified way to work, kind of starts to sound like a different
• 19:59
  way of working that we said we move past.
• 20:02
  But the other side of the coin is, like, I might not be motivated as an employee to work.
• 20:09
  And if I'm at my home or somewhere else, I might have other great reasons not to be
• 20:13
  working.
• 20:14
  I think it's about, am I working or am I not?
• 20:16
  I think it's about, like, you talked about this yesterday.
• 20:19
  How much value is there to me in taking, like, the rest and care that my body needs, whether
• 20:24
  that's doing my laundry or taking an app or playing Minecraft or going and getting in
• 20:30
  the pool for a couple of hours?
• 20:32
  Like, I do think it's also a function of burnout.
• 20:35
  And it's like, well, let me take back what I can.
• 20:38
  I also feel like there's this great book called Quiet and it's about, like, Introverse.
• 20:43
  And then, but it talks about, I don't know if you guys have read it.
• 20:45
  It talks about, like, the evolution of the workforce in the US based off of, like, introverted
• 20:51
  versus extroverted.
• 20:53
  And the US culture is based, I'll just speak for US, another rest of the world, is based
• 20:57
  off of an extrovert paradise.
• 21:01
  And I think this also gets back to, like, not understanding how some people work best.
• 21:05
  There is, like, half of the population that's forced to be out there with the extroverts
• 21:11
  that actually don't perform really well in office environments because it's, like, draining
• 21:16
  for them.
• 21:17
  But I feel like we don't acknowledge that because we're, like, fit into the box, be this
• 21:20
  perfect worker, this is the type of work, and that's culture, but it's inhibiting their
• 21:25
  entire creative flow.
• 21:26
  Yeah, exactly.
• 21:27
  Well, there's even, I think that even exists within a job.
• 21:31
  Like, there are things that will be better if I'm in a room talking to people and I'm
• 21:35
  a verbal processor, surprising no one.
• 21:38
  But I think that there are also things that if you don't give me a second of loan, it's
• 21:43
  not going to get done.
• 21:44
  Or it'll get done.
• 21:45
  It's like, I'll feed it to AI, and I'll give it to me, and then it'll be done.
• 21:49
  Well, what I'm wondering is if it's an age thing, too, because, how do you add this?
• 21:54
  Yeah.
• 21:55
  And guarantee you feel different about what remote means than what I didn't have remote
• 21:59
  when I was 22.
• 22:00
  I was traveling around doing furniture repair, and I couldn't do that remotely, obviously.
• 22:05
  But there wasn't an option.
• 22:06
  It's in there when there's not an option, you really don't know what's different, you're
• 22:10
  not comparing them.
• 22:11
  How does it feel?
• 22:12
  I mean, I am the extrovert.
• 22:15
  So I do really like being in the office and that kind of thing.
• 22:19
  I feel like I'm more comfortable being in the office than I am being remote right now,
• 22:23
  just because I don't know how to properly get everything I want out of a Slack message.
• 22:27
  I'm thinking in my brain and I'm like, okay, this is what I need.
• 22:31
  And then three minutes later, I'm like, damn it.
• 22:33
  I need something else.
• 22:36
  And so I think being able to mature and that I think remote will become a lot more efficient.
• 22:41
  Do you feel like when you're typing in Slack, it's like getting the clarity of what you're
• 22:46
  trying to type out the thought is hard?
• 22:50
  Yeah, so I struggle with that, too, and I get drained of me.
• 22:53
  Yeah, me writing a Slack message, if you put a gun to my head, you wouldn't know the
• 22:57
  difference.
• 22:58
  They are the same.
• 22:59
  No, no, no, no, no.
• 23:00
  Slack intense.
• 23:01
  So they are the same, especially like when we have a deadline and I'm like, oh shit, like
• 23:05
  what am I just saying?
• 23:06
  Yeah, you remember that project we were doing?
• 23:07
  Literally living on Slack for like 18 hours straight?
• 23:08
  I was at the very beginning of your 45th experience.
• 23:09
  Yeah, you were just, oh man, that was intense.
• 23:10
  I'm traumatized by that.
• 23:11
  Are you sending things back and forth?
• 23:12
  Like images, too?
• 23:13
  Or like, images file?
• 23:14
  Yeah, yeah.
• 23:15
  Like it was everything.
• 23:16
  And it was pretty intense.
• 23:17
  I was like, I don't know what to do.
• 23:18
  Wouldn't you also like the only one in the office at that time?
• 23:19
  No, I was sitting by you that this one I'm talking about.
• 23:20
  But yeah, you were pretty much.
• 23:21
  Yeah, Reggie and Tim were both gone somewhere and I was sitting in the office and the clients
• 23:45
  were just like calling me.
• 23:46
  Oh my gosh.
• 23:47
  Oh my gosh.
• 23:48
  I'm calling me.
• 23:49
  Trial by fire.
• 23:50
  This was like my...
• 23:51
  You passed.
• 23:52
  Yeah, passed.
• 23:53
  Yeah, for sure.
• 23:54
  This was my third week on the 40th.
• 23:55
  It's like actually signed on from college and I was like, these people are slacking me.
• 23:59
  I don't know how to even respond.
• 24:00
  I'm just like, well...
• 24:01
  It even sounds violent.
• 24:02
  Yeah.
• 24:03
  You were slacking me.
• 24:04
  Yeah.
• 24:05
  That little ping, that little ping.
• 24:08
  Oh my gosh.
• 24:09
  I turned that off.
• 24:10
  Yeah.
• 24:11
  I turned it off.
• 24:12
  Yeah.
• 24:13
  You wanted to ask me.
• 24:14
  Do you want to commit suicide..?
• 24:15
  No, no.
• 24:16
  No!
• 24:17
  Never wanted to.
• 24:18
  So I wanted to ask anyone to end your story.
• 24:19
  Definitely.
• 24:20
  But we do keep up with A client uns Vict token, and thankfully our point of contact is lovely
• 24:25
  but I do think it's kind of hard to take agentship line.
• 24:29
  And the fact that you can't be so important back in 4th was about my intervention.
• 24:33
  Right, so this is my problem is humans may have been made for less channels of communication.
• 24:40
  I'm not going to say this for sure because I've done a research, but for me personally and maybe for you,
• 24:45
  when there are too many conversations happening, like I have to propose email, I have these Slack messages,
• 24:49
  I have these voice mails, I have, I get so overwhelmed and all of that because I don't,
• 24:55
  I can't keep track of where all these channels are for some reason.
• 24:59
  I will say it's gotten better since she did that, married to this virtual office for us,
• 25:03
  so she's training these old guys, how do you organize this?
• 25:05
  They might also hear more about Adrian, you and I have been through the ringer on virtual office.
• 25:11
  Oh, yes we have.
• 25:13
  And but imagine like having not done any of that ever before in your life and then some crazy lady comes in
• 25:18
  and is like, I need a virtual first office, so this is what we're doing.
• 25:21
  And I'm not kidding, like three weeks in, they went from zero to a hundred.
• 25:25
  It's amazing.
• 25:26
  That's awesome.
• 25:27
  Slack is all organized and my wife even said, can I have that video?
• 25:30
  So I was like, she recorded this.
• 25:32
  Oh my gosh.
• 25:33
  It's good.
• 25:34
  I will say this and I keep saying it to them internally, but I feel like I need to put it in the public forum.
• 25:39
  I kept every morning, I would wake up and be like, today's going to be the day.
• 25:43
  Somebody's going to break.
• 25:44
  Somebody's going to, I'm going to be in the middle of trying to share something.
• 25:47
  We're going to break down.
• 25:48
  I can't handle it anymore and I'm going to respect that and we're going to back off of it.
• 25:52
  But I kept pushing because that, I'm a pusher.
• 25:55
  So we like it very much.
• 25:58
  Yeah.
• 25:59
  That was a mean girl's reference to somebody knows.
• 26:01
  But I think, yeah.
• 26:03
  But I, the like level of open-mindedness and I'll say resilience because it can be a lot
• 26:11
  with the virtual stuff and like willingness to learn and try new things
• 26:15
  and like pull together, I think is the most important thing to be like, hey, I have a problem
• 26:20
  and then everybody rushes to the problem to try to help.
• 26:23
  It has been very inspiring.
• 26:27
  It's, yeah.
• 26:28
  It's like you start one of these processes and you're like, well, my expectations are kind of low.
• 26:32
  Yeah.
• 26:33
  Have a lot of grace for any of the, whatever is, but like it's been incredible.
• 26:36
  And when everyone uses it in the way it's intense and two, it works really well.
• 26:40
  Right, exactly.
• 26:41
  You're like, oh, this is helping my life.
• 26:42
  And it's not about the humans and it is about the tech.
• 26:45
  Sorry, sorry, listeners.
• 26:48
  The live raw, untruthy conversation.
• 26:50
  It's okay.
• 26:51
  It's going to be fine.
• 26:52
  But I do think it's more about like behavior than it is about the tech itself.
• 26:56
  Because there's also this research about whether or not these technologies were intended to help us
• 27:01
  or where they were intended to distract us.
• 27:03
  Oh, my God.
• 27:04
  I'm always skeptical.
• 27:05
  Right.
• 27:06
  Because especially social media, but also I think for Slack is like an inter-social media.
• 27:10
  Yes.
• 27:11
  For a company especially if you're at scale and they will commonly say, not they, Slack,
• 27:16
  but the researchers around this will say, is there a guide that teaches you how to
• 27:21
  most efficiently use this app?
• 27:24
  No, because the more you're on the app actually benefits the business.
• 27:27
  So be in there trying to figure it out.
• 27:29
  It's very in your head against the wall.
• 27:30
  They care about how to move things around.
• 27:32
  Right.
• 27:33
  Because the more you're in the app, the more it benefits them as an organization.
• 27:37
  And the business model.
• 27:38
  I totally believe that.
• 27:39
  Yeah.
• 27:40
  And you know what keeps happening to Reggie and Reggie.
• 27:43
  Right.
• 27:44
  I'm going to talk to you about this IRL before you see this.
• 27:46
  This is a podcast for the first time.
• 27:47
  No, I do think there is like, I'm going to notice an age gap, but it's not at all like,
• 27:52
  okay, Boomer.
• 27:53
  He's not a Boomer by the way.
• 27:54
  He's not.
• 27:55
  I'm so sorry.
• 27:56
  I'm like, wait a minute.
• 27:57
  I am not sitting in for a Boomer.
• 27:58
  No.
• 27:59
  No, you're not.
• 28:00
  I was like, wait a minute.
• 28:01
  I don't think people would do that.
• 28:02
  Unsuspecting Boomer.
• 28:03
  Yeah.
• 28:04
  Age is an illusion these days.
• 28:06
  I don't know how old anybody is.
• 28:08
  But I've noticed that Reggie is really, I've said before, like, we need to complain more.
• 28:13
  Like, I think if people don't know you're hurting, how can they help you?
• 28:16
  And I think most people do want to help you.
• 28:18
  But we got to figure out a way to complain that's not whatever punitive.
• 28:21
  But Reggie's great at complaining.
• 28:23
  And I've told him this many, many times.
• 28:24
  And my life has been made better because Reggie complains.
• 28:27
  Like, our windows get fixed.
• 28:28
  And our doors get rusted.
• 28:29
  And.
• 28:30
  But he, yeah, he's not only a complainer.
• 28:32
  Yeah.
• 28:33
  He's like a fixer.
• 28:34
  He gets the thing now.
• 28:35
  That's a good combo.
• 28:36
  Yeah.
• 28:37
  The motivation of like, I see how great this could be.
• 28:39
  How do I get this fix?
• 28:40
  But he also expects things from software that I wonder if it's from like a bygone time.
• 28:46
  The idea that you could reach out to the customer service portal and that they might actually help you navigate these things.
• 28:51
  Which is where, yeah, he grew up getting in touch with the maker of the software.
• 28:55
  Yeah.
• 28:56
  And like, he was a flash pioneer, you know.
• 28:58
  So like, he understands how these things evolve.
• 29:01
  And I think he's probably accustomed in some way to being like the super user who can push the software forward.
• 29:07
  Right.
• 29:08
  But these, they're not working like that.
• 29:09
  We are not a priority.
• 29:11
  Maybe their biggest enterprise client is able to like sway that in like a head of account kind of way.
• 29:18
  But like, I never feel heard or seen.
• 29:21
  But the funny thing is that Slack actually made their impression on the market as an app because of how they heard their customers.
• 29:28
  Yeah.
• 29:29
  So in the beginning, they would change their software daily, hourly.
• 29:33
  Yeah.
• 29:34
  Because of how aggressive they were in listening to the users.
• 29:37
  Yeah.
• 29:38
  But when it gets to a certain point, it's more important that it's just their priorities change.
• 29:45
  Yeah.
• 29:46
  And then we're not a priority, which is kind of sad.
• 29:47
  And like, where are you listening is my other question.
• 29:49
  Like, before the product existed, you had to go listen to like issues in the market.
• 29:53
  And then after the product exists, are you listening broadly?
• 29:56
  Or are you just listening to people on the app?
• 29:58
  Are you being surveilled and everything that you say?
• 30:00
  And they're pulling whatever?
• 30:02
  I don't know.
• 30:03
  On your screen?
• 30:04
  Yeah.
• 30:05
  Well, I think this gets into a conversation of scale again.
• 30:08
  And capitalism like always growing mentality is that when you get to a point at which you see apps and development happen
• 30:16
  where this real specific app was working for this real specific problem.
• 30:21
  And then they got to the max.
• 30:24
  Miro.
• 30:25
  Yeah.
• 30:26
  And then they moved.
• 30:27
  Right.
• 30:28
  Miro.
• 30:29
  But you'll watch them all do it.
• 30:30
  They try to eat all the other apps.
• 30:31
  Yes.
• 30:32
  Like, we're the all in one app.
• 30:33
  Every app's the all in one app.
• 30:34
  I don't know what I'm going to do with 15 all in one apps.
• 30:36
  And it's frustrating because that is the way they have to move with our culture.
• 30:40
  Yeah.
• 30:41
  It's so true.
• 30:42
  Right.
• 30:43
  They have to eat more market share.
• 30:44
  Yeah.
• 30:45
  It's so true.
• 30:46
  I mean, they do it with every CPG.
• 30:47
  We've been in all kinds of meetings like this where they're like, we make cereal for the morning.
• 30:50
  But what about nighttime cereal?
• 30:52
  I've never thought about it.
• 30:53
  And then they start to open up these different parts of your life that they can colonize for lack of a better word.
• 30:58
  Yeah.
• 30:59
  Like, let me go plant my flag on this part of Tim's brain.
• 31:01
  And bring up a good point.
• 31:02
  What about colonization was like remote when you send your worker into another region.
• 31:11
  Interesting.
• 31:12
  We're remotely.
• 31:13
  Interesting.
• 31:14
  Feed back.
• 31:15
  Feed back the intel.
• 31:16
  And the king.
• 31:17
  You know, there's this good thing.
• 31:18
  Okay.
• 31:19
  Interesting.
• 31:20
  Yeah.
• 31:21
  Yeah.
• 31:22
  Yeah.
• 31:23
  Yeah.
• 31:24
  I don't know how to name it.
• 31:25
  Come on.
• 31:26
  I can do this.
• 31:27
  But Venenia, the Pinta and the San Diego VR.
• 31:29
  There's a group here in town.
• 31:31
  Sorry.
• 31:32
  Called Digital Nomads.
• 31:34
  And I have managed my digital nomads for coming through.
• 31:38
  I've never attended a single event.
• 31:40
  Any other thing that I've attended.
• 31:41
  I'm like, oh, how do you two know each other?
• 31:43
  It's like everybody I meet.
• 31:44
  They're like, oh, we met in digital nomads.
• 31:45
  And it's because I think why they're so strong is because they're people who individually have their own.
• 31:50
  The feeling work.
• 31:51
  Yeah.
• 31:52
  That's like kept them in this job, whatever it is.
• 31:54
  And then they go and have fun times.
• 31:56
  Like they're just a group of people who need to have fun time.
• 31:58
  They're like, you work remote.
• 31:59
  I work remote.
• 32:00
  That's what gives us something in common.
• 32:02
  Yeah.
• 32:03
  So let's go bowl.
• 32:04
  Yeah.
• 32:05
  Like whatever.
• 32:06
  Have you heard this concept of third space?
• 32:08
  Yeah.
• 32:09
  The third space.
• 32:10
  Yeah.
• 32:11
  But most people try and capture the third space, but they just make it into another working space.
• 32:15
  Yeah.
• 32:16
  But I think if someone knows how to have fun.
• 32:18
  This came up when you were talking about play.
• 32:20
  Here's an insight.
• 32:21
  Are you listening?
• 32:22
  Big business.
• 32:23
  I mean, like we have a space in town.
• 32:25
  Oh, switch yards.
• 32:26
  Switch yards.
• 32:27
  Oh, yeah.
• 32:28
  It's a different kind of co-working where I think they're trying to capture a third space.
• 32:31
  But the truth, third space, is where it's totally relationship driven.
• 32:36
  Yes, and natural work.
• 32:37
  And natural work.
• 32:38
  Yes.
• 32:39
  So there is that level of play that I think actually connects people.
• 32:42
  Yeah.
• 32:43
  And the work relationships are driven by a goal.
• 32:48
  So you all want to get to somewhere.
• 32:50
  So you make it nice so that you can get to this place.
• 32:52
  Yeah.
• 32:53
  But friends are things you really have to cultivate.
• 32:56
  Sure.
• 32:57
  And they take work and time.
• 32:58
  Yeah.
• 32:59
  Most work friends, when you get out of work, it falls apart and in a really short amount of time.
• 33:03
  But friend friends.
• 33:04
  That's true.
• 33:05
  That you make in these third space as a concept in relationship and play and whatever it is hanging out.
• 33:11
  I wonder if that's why digital nomads is what it is.
• 33:14
  They're like...
• 33:15
  Because they're hanging out.
• 33:16
  And they don't have anyone else.
• 33:17
  Imagine.
• 33:18
  Yeah, true.
• 33:19
  If you digitally remote their own system.
• 33:21
  We know.
• 33:22
  Like moving to this town.
• 33:23
  We were both remote at the time that we moved to Asheville and very isolating, I would say.
• 33:28
  And like never mind, it's COVID for a time.
• 33:31
  So it's like, I can't go to a bar and meet people.
• 33:34
  I'm going to contract a life.
• 33:35
  That's very true.
• 33:36
  And you both are extroverts, right?
• 33:37
  No, I'm actually an introvert.
• 33:39
  You're a high-performance extrovert.
• 33:41
  I think.
• 33:42
  In theater, probably.
• 33:44
  I...
• 33:45
  Okay.
• 33:46
  No, no, no.
• 33:47
  We're just both French horn players.
• 33:48
  That's what you're picking.
• 33:49
  I didn't play French horn.
• 33:50
  I didn't play French.
• 33:51
  I didn't play French.
• 33:52
  People I know in town.
• 33:53
  They play French horn.
• 33:54
  I like to walk in because I'm collecting this group.
• 33:57
  But I'm like, I think we should start at quartet.
• 33:59
  What is it about French horn players?
• 34:00
  Yeah.
• 34:01
  There's something to say qua.
• 34:02
  Yeah, there's something all about it.
• 34:03
  I'm like, why choose a...
• 34:04
  Like, I'm in seventh grade.
• 34:05
  Why?
• 34:06
  I care about French horn players.
• 34:07
  There looks like a toilet around there.
• 34:09
  No one cares about you.
• 34:12
  They're like, pipe down French horns.
• 34:13
  It's a wonderful instrument, though.
• 34:15
  And now you hear it every time you watch a movie.
• 34:17
  Don't you?
• 34:18
  Like, they're singing out.
• 34:19
  All right.
• 34:20
  We'll speak for all the fake extroverts.
• 34:22
  We made a real laugh.
• 34:23
  Not fake.
• 34:24
  Let's see, skilled extroverts, but truly introvert.
• 34:26
  Because I view it after reading this book, a quiet,
• 34:29
  which I suggest all you read.
• 34:31
  We saw a book on every episode.
• 34:33
  I think it's good.
• 34:34
  It's good to read.
• 34:35
  Yeah.
• 34:36
  That's another topic.
• 34:37
  You can read it.
• 34:38
  You can read it.
• 34:39
  How you judge on the, like, a very loose way is, like,
• 34:43
  how to get your energy.
• 34:44
  And I get my energy by being by myself.
• 34:46
  Like, being...
• 34:47
  I can be out with people.
• 34:48
  I actually really enjoy it, but it's draining for me.
• 34:51
  Like, after I'm out being extroverted,
• 34:54
  I have to, like, retreat back into my little hole
• 34:56
  and, like, recharge by myself for a little bit.
• 34:59
  Where extroverted people are, like, I'm alive!
• 35:02
  I love being around people.
• 35:04
  They're like, I'm draining.
• 35:05
  Yes!
• 35:06
  I'm draining.
• 35:07
  No, I feel like I'm just high intensity.
• 35:09
  Like, no matter which of those I'm doing, I'm doing it all.
• 35:12
  You don't identify either side.
• 35:13
  I'm not too, you're high intensity.
• 35:14
  Thank you.
• 35:15
  But is that it?
• 35:16
  Yeah.
• 35:17
  Yeah.
• 35:18
  I'm going to turn on.
• 35:19
  Yeah.
• 35:20
  It's rugged.
• 35:21
  No matter which version I'm doing.
• 35:22
  Introvertedness, dependent on intensity.
• 35:25
  I'm saying, I think, when I'm alone, I'm alone.
• 35:28
  And God, do I love it.
• 35:30
  Like, if I've lived for many years without a bathtub,
• 35:34
  and I moved into my house in 2021, and we have a bathtub now,
• 35:37
  and I'm, like, hmmm.
• 35:39
  And now I'm a different person.
• 35:41
  Like, you didn't know me in the non-bath tub years,
• 35:44
  but you would not, Adrian knows.
• 35:46
  It was so much fun.
• 35:47
  The age of the bathtub.
• 35:48
  The whole time of New York, like, sitting on the shower,
• 35:52
  but you're, like, hoping to do this thing.
• 35:54
  You'll just drain.
• 35:56
  Yeah.
• 35:57
  Sorry about my worries.
• 35:59
  It's funny because my, I'm just finding out that I think my dad is an introvert,
• 36:02
  and he's been, like, a pastor's whole life.
• 36:04
  Literally extroverted hundreds of times that I ever saw him.
• 36:07
  I'm so personable.
• 36:08
  Yeah.
• 36:09
  Yeah.
• 36:10
  And now he kind of has the freedom to be introvert,
• 36:14
  and that's his natural place.
• 36:15
  Yeah.
• 36:16
  And I'm wondering if that's my natural place, too.
• 36:18
  Yeah.
• 36:19
  Interesting.
• 36:20
  I'm just discovering this about myself.
• 36:21
  That's what I think I was trained to be an extrovert.
• 36:23
  Because the world is designed for extrovert.
• 36:25
  And that's the American standard.
• 36:27
  But when you were saying it's like, if you're going to be successful,
• 36:29
  you need to be...
• 36:30
  There's something wrong with you if you're not that way.
• 36:31
  Yeah.
• 36:32
  And I think that I'm sort of, like, just recovering from it a little bit.
• 36:35
  And you talked about overwhelm with too many channels of communication,
• 36:39
  which I, I went to therapy because of that.
• 36:41
  I was like, why can't I function like a normal human?
• 36:44
  Why am I, like, shut down when I have 10 emails and 30 texts?
• 36:48
  Right.
• 36:49
  Like, just answer the text and be like, sorry, bye.
• 36:52
  Yeah.
• 36:53
  But it's...
• 36:54
  That's, like, ruthless authenticity.
• 36:55
  Yeah.
• 36:56
  Well, like, I was realizing I see every, like, bid for, like, connection,
• 37:00
  which is a compliment in my view.
• 37:02
  Like, people want to be connected to me as a good thing.
• 37:04
  Yeah.
• 37:05
  I was seeing it as, like, obligation.
• 37:06
  Like, everybody wants something.
• 37:07
  Oh, thanks, Emily.
• 37:08
  So, like, I've had to flip that switch in my brain and be like,
• 37:11
  I don't have to give people anything if I don't want to.
• 37:14
  And I can say, that's awesome.
• 37:17
  And be done.
• 37:18
  Like, I don't have to take any action because I received this communicate.
• 37:22
  But I think room at work puts you in kind of a weird spot with that.
• 37:25
  Because every communication does sort of imply that you're going to do something.
• 37:28
  And you kind of have to respond, too.
• 37:30
  Yeah.
• 37:31
  Because you feel like this is, again, it's like you're getting towards a goal
• 37:34
  or committing, like, you need to do it fast.
• 37:36
  Yeah.
• 37:37
  So you need to tell people what you're doing.
• 37:38
  But it also can't ignore it.
• 37:39
  Yeah.
• 37:40
  It becomes really easy, though.
• 37:41
  I'm looking at you because I'm like, this has happened to you.
• 37:42
  I watched it happen.
• 37:43
  Yeah.
• 37:44
  Where, like, people will just sort of, like, punt or, like, they'll, like, kick the can down the road.
• 37:48
  That's true.
• 37:49
  Because you're the one who will actually pick it up and be like, guys, we need to do something about this.
• 37:52
  That's true.
• 37:54
  And you're like, okay, I'm not going to put this baby down.
• 37:57
  So you wonder, like, you know, when they started having all these different types of school
• 38:00
  that you can send your kids to, I'm experiencing this now because I'm sending my youngest
• 38:05
  into kindergarten.
• 38:07
  And there's, like, a buffet of options.
• 38:11
  A really charter public, this wall door.
• 38:15
  And you didn't go through this with your other two kids.
• 38:18
  Well, kind of, but it was just beginning because, as you're 16, in last 12, but there was,
• 38:25
  so there's this thing where people discover that not everyone learns the same.
• 38:29
  It's sort of amazing, like, not everyone's meant to sit in the desk to take a test
• 38:33
  the way that we've done it.
• 38:34
  Who would argue who is designed?
• 38:37
  Maybe not one.
• 38:38
  Maybe, like, some rare nerd who I love nerds.
• 38:41
  I think nerding out on anything like design, like we do, or nerding out on science,
• 38:45
  it's amazing, but I think that there's a very small percentage of people that work like that.
• 38:49
  Yeah.
• 38:50
  So I think also we're finding maybe in the realm or in the age of being remote where it's possible
• 38:55
  that it's good to allow certain types of us to work differently.
• 39:01
  Yeah.
• 39:02
  You know, and there's this, and what corporate's going to miss on this is that they're wanting to
• 39:05
  force it back into the extroverted lane.
• 39:07
  When these introverts are going to create something so magnificent in their isolation.
• 39:12
  That's true.
• 39:13
  I don't want to call it isolation because you're still connected.
• 39:15
  Yeah.
• 39:16
  Like, you need to be supportive.
• 39:17
  I think every human needs that.
• 39:18
  It's a safe wall.
• 39:19
  Yeah, there's a safe wall.
• 39:20
  Yeah.
• 39:21
  Where you can retreat.
• 39:22
  Yeah.
• 39:23
  Because I remember working, and Mary does it sometimes.
• 39:26
  She doesn't know this about me.
• 39:27
  But sometimes when I'm in the moment, my brain slows down to, like, a tortoise pace.
• 39:31
  Well, actually, tortoise is the fastest.
• 39:33
  My brain slows down to, like, very slow.
• 39:36
  What's slow, like, syrup or collapse?
• 39:38
  Like slow.
• 39:39
  Okay.
• 39:40
  Yep.
• 39:41
  It's like I've become passive, and I'm taking in all this information.
• 39:44
  And then when I go off by myself, I grind it.
• 39:46
  Right.
• 39:47
  Right.
• 39:48
  And I know how to get through the information.
• 39:49
  And I know how to make creativity comes.
• 39:51
  All this inspiration.
• 39:52
  And I think you process actually on the board.
• 39:55
  In real time.
• 39:56
  Drawing sketches.
• 39:57
  Yeah.
• 39:58
  Taking pictures and moving it forward.
• 39:59
  It's amazing.
• 40:00
  And I see it.
• 40:01
  I'm, like, so jealous.
• 40:02
  For me, I'm blank.
• 40:04
  I see everything happening.
• 40:05
  And I'm taking it in.
• 40:07
  It's like I love computers taking all these inputs.
• 40:09
  And then I need to go off by myself or nothing happens.
• 40:12
  If I don't have time to go out by myself and process it,
• 40:15
  it's almost like digestion.
• 40:16
  It's like I'm eating a lot of food.
• 40:17
  Yep.
• 40:18
  Data and information.
• 40:19
  Yep.
• 40:20
  And then I need time to, like, digest this and do something with it.
• 40:23
  And so that's the way I work.
• 40:25
  And it didn't go well for me until I created my own agency.
• 40:29
  Because I created my question.
• 40:31
  Yeah.
• 40:32
  And some, you know, like, some people say you're wasting time
• 40:34
  by inserting the internet.
• 40:35
  Yeah.
• 40:36
  And then suddenly someone told me that,
• 40:38
  oh, I may have told myself.
• 40:39
  I can best advice.
• 40:41
  No, I gave, I did a talk for some.
• 40:44
  Oh, I did.
• 40:45
  I did.
• 40:46
  That's a really good advice.
• 40:47
  I should say that more often.
• 40:48
  I did a talk for college.
• 40:49
  I sat myself down.
• 40:50
  And I had a little talk to myself.
• 40:52
  I said.
• 40:53
  I did a college conversation.
• 40:55
  Or I did a talk for college students.
• 40:57
  And I told them to notice your process.
• 40:59
  Everyone wants to tell you what your process should be.
• 41:02
  Yeah, very smart.
• 41:03
  But you figured out your own process.
• 41:04
  Who working?
• 41:05
  Yeah.
• 41:06
  And so one of my processes was wasting time surfing.
• 41:08
  That's how I researched.
• 41:09
  Yeah.
• 41:10
  I didn't call it research.
• 41:11
  Yeah.
• 41:12
  But I would be overwhelmed or I wouldn't know what to do.
• 41:14
  Yeah.
• 41:15
  And I would find myself surfing.
• 41:16
  And then the internet, if not surfing out in the ocean,
• 41:19
  surfing the internet.
• 41:20
  Thanks for clarifying.
• 41:21
  And I would find things that like sparked me.
• 41:23
  Yeah.
• 41:24
  And I would collect them.
• 41:25
  Yeah.
• 41:26
  And so I started wasting time as a part of my process.
• 41:29
  Yeah.
• 41:30
  I would just go in my office.
• 41:31
  I love that.
• 41:32
  And I would surf.
• 41:33
  And I would collect.
• 41:34
  And then I would be driven to do the thing.
• 41:36
  And I would find the solution.
• 41:37
  And that was invisible to me.
• 41:39
  And I think it's invisible to a lot of people who don't identify
• 41:42
  first and foremost as creators or designers.
• 41:44
  Until Adrian stepped up.
• 41:45
  It was like, this is a step.
• 41:47
  We need to do this step before we do these other steps.
• 41:50
  At least it was.
• 41:51
  Well, I like to talk about it.
• 41:53
  I think maybe this is the same thing you do.
• 41:55
  I like to be like, I want the images to talk to me.
• 41:58
  I go to the same process where I have to do like a big pool.
• 42:02
  Yes.
• 42:03
  I got to like get all the stuff, make it kind of messy.
• 42:06
  Yeah.
• 42:07
  And then once I have it out there, like there's something about
• 42:10
  looking at all of that where it like tells you a story.
• 42:12
  Yeah.
• 42:13
  But I can't do it without doing what you're talking about.
• 42:15
  Right.
• 42:16
  Which is like wasting time.
• 42:17
  Yeah.
• 42:18
  I think I can.
• 42:19
  Finding the stuff.
• 42:20
  And then I compare it to like when you do pottery.
• 42:21
  And you take all that clay.
• 42:22
  Yes.
• 42:23
  And you throw it on the wheel.
• 42:24
  Yeah.
• 42:25
  But it doesn't work unless you center it.
• 42:27
  Yeah.
• 42:28
  Yeah.
• 42:29
  And that's what I do in my own space.
• 42:31
  And so I wonder if there is this freedom now.
• 42:33
  If we correctly learn how to create the culture and the community.
• 42:36
  Yeah.
• 42:37
  And not the pressures and the intensity of it.
• 42:39
  Yeah.
• 42:40
  And it's not always going to be easy life isn't that way.
• 42:42
  But if there's a way to center your process, however you work,
• 42:46
  the introverts, extroverts, something that ride the 50% line,
• 42:49
  you know, like in the middle, like my wife does.
• 42:52
  What do you call them?
• 42:53
  Amberverts.
• 42:54
  Amberverts.
• 42:55
  And Jake, my best friend too, I think also identified as an Ambervert
• 42:58
  for a long time.
• 42:59
  There's a new one.
• 43:00
  Oh, really?
• 43:01
  And I've just, I need a little bird.
• 43:02
  I need a little bird.
• 43:03
  I need to learn not to try to do any specific reverts.
• 43:05
  Probably.
• 43:06
  I don't know.
• 43:07
  I, on the last.
• 43:08
  Would you call it?
• 43:09
  Amberverts.
• 43:10
  But no, there's another one that just came out.
• 43:12
  But what we put it on is story like three days ago.
• 43:14
  Do you need to check it?
• 43:15
  Um, what is this?
• 43:16
  We're in French.
• 43:17
  I'm going to start using the word perfect.
• 43:18
  It's a clever thing.
• 43:19
  Yeah.
• 43:20
  I watched about that theater episode where I was like,
• 43:22
  let me teach you about theater.
• 43:24
  I got so many things wrong.
• 43:26
  It was very important.
• 43:28
  What is it?
• 43:29
  Oh, trove.
• 43:30
  Oh trove.
• 43:31
  What does that mean?
• 43:33
  Well, as well as doing some research off camera.
• 43:36
  Thanks God somebody else.
• 43:37
  I think that's me.
• 43:44
  Oh, that's me.
• 43:45
  Really?
• 43:46
  I think that's me.
• 43:47
  Oh, try.
• 43:48
  Wait a minute.
• 43:49
  I got a hint.
• 43:50
  The doge heard a long last year.
• 43:52
  It's one last year.
• 43:54
  An individual who's socially capable yet emotionally independent of group identity
• 44:01
  That's me. I think that's me too. Oh, okay. We're all
• 44:05
  Keep up opening up your group now that we've identified. And do we have to stop?
• 44:10
  Don't talk. No, no, no, no, no. Sorry. I got the new call for us. Do you have like I?
• 44:16
  Don't know if it's anxiety or maybe it's just like my maybe now I'm learning this is
• 44:22
  Just built into my way of being I don't like
• 44:25
  How can I say this I don't like
• 44:28
  Joining up into groups. Yeah, and I don't know. I've been that way my entire life
• 44:34
  Yeah, and I don't know why yeah me too and it's not that like I
• 44:39
  Don't like people that are in groups like I just don't want to be a part of it
• 44:43
  Like I'd much rather be off doing my own thing. I can enjoy what you're doing from afar, but I don't want to be
• 44:49
  Part of it. It's maybe just
• 44:52
  It feels to me like I like being in a group
• 44:56
  I'm discovering that I like being in like we have a friend group that I keep
• 45:01
  Will in it and I'm like guys we got to keep this thing rolling. What are we doing next like are we going to the beach or what?
• 45:07
  But I think I've never been that person before, but I think it it bothers me to join a group that already has like a
• 45:14
  pre-existing culture sometimes
• 45:16
  And I'll notice thing. Yeah, it sounds really judgy when I get home and I'm like
• 45:21
  Decomposing and processing it. I'm like well
• 45:23
  It was fun for these reasons and I liked this person, but as a group they kind of bring out this weird thing in each other that I don't really want to
• 45:30
  Fake for them and so I kind of well, I would attribute that to having options
• 45:35
  I don't know what don't speak on this because you grew up in the small town
• 45:38
  Yeah, but it's fair and when and speak your experience in what it means to be connected in a small town with our
• 45:45
  Unoption you can't go to 15 in your schools or choose from you travel multiple different friends
• 45:49
  Well, and by the way, whatever the story is you've come out on the other side like an incredible community builder
• 45:55
  Everywhere you go teach us your way. Yeah, I think in high school it was like I
• 46:01
  ran in so many different crowds
• 46:03
  Probably literally no literally like
• 46:08
  I ran with so many different people I never had like this like one
• 46:13
  I'm gonna say click because it was high school. I never had this one click that I was like associated with I was like always like
• 46:18
  Morefeen and I was like hanging out and yeah, like I was like I was a friend and I'm like I'm not saying that cuz I was probably a total
• 46:26
  Brat in high school, but like I was like at least like friendly enough to be like
• 46:30
  Yeah, how are you doing?
• 46:32
  I will be totally honest
• 46:35
  Me and Connor went back for Eastern Franklin and I do not speak to anyone from high school not even a single soul and
• 46:42
  It's not on purpose. There is an intentional. It's really not unintentional. It's like I think
• 46:49
  High school like frames what you want for your friends like in the real world
• 46:52
  Mm-hmm
• 46:53
  And so like I was always constantly like man like this is so small town drama
• 46:57
  I want friends who like see this bigger picture that I do
• 47:00
  So when I went to college and like got my real friends and then like when I got into Asheville and I've got like people
• 47:05
  Who are all these different circles? I'm like? Oh, this is like mature. This is fun
• 47:10
  It can also be child like
• 47:13
  So yeah, I just run with a lot of different circles. So you used your
• 47:18
  You experienced high school as a like a training. Yeah, and maybe this was what it is for all of us like we take it so seriously and I tell my kids like
• 47:30
  I was like one of those people in high school like I did everything like I literally did everything and I
• 47:36
  Sport and I'm ashamed. Yeah, I'm ashamed to miss admitted. I'm Mrs. FHS
• 47:42
  For high school and like FHS like the high school Franklin
• 47:46
  So I like I see that the queen
• 47:48
  The problem we yes you were and I
• 47:54
  Because I was like I hate to admit it because it's like
• 47:59
  I'm the shit
• 48:01
  That's true. It was like so for me. It was like so stereotypical like I thought when I got the college my friends
• 48:07
  We're gonna make like so much fun of me because they were like oh you were that girl, but but isn't it beautiful like you didn't want it
• 48:13
  And you got it. Yeah, yeah
• 48:15
  For code to life that the things you don't want like the things you're like I could take it or leave it and then I was like you give it to
• 48:21
  Tell me
• 48:23
  It's just meered irony. I remember being a prom and I was just like shit talking on like the whole thing and I was like tell my friends
• 48:31
  I was like guys like don't you think this is my trip when they are like like he shit talking the whole thing probably I know
• 48:36
  I was just I think it's because like the non-chalant of not wanting something
• 48:41
  But maybe secretly down. I don't know. Okay. Shalant is a word. Thank you for my name. Not non-chalant
• 48:47
  Shalant yes like are you shalant? Are you non-chalant? I don't know to me. We should bring shalant into the
• 48:53
  Vocabulary because they have non-chalant. Yeah, why can't I mean I'm shalant about it? I was not shalant about it
• 48:59
  I also just wanted to get like I was so head focused
• 49:02
  I was like I want to get out of my small town. I moved to Asheville. Okay, so you were pushing against it like you felt like you wanted to
• 49:08
  Expand your yeah, I felt like my parents were like giving me this framework
• 49:13
  To like see the world and then I was like coming back and I'm like guys look at this thing and a price like what the hell is this?
• 49:19
  You need your people. Yeah, I need my people and I think that's what high school is for is because you get a taste of it
• 49:24
  You've got these people in this proximity, but it's not like I don't mean there's high school best friends
• 49:29
  But for me it wasn't like life-giving. It was more of a draining factor those four years than it was like a life-giving moment for me
• 49:36
  I think that's good though because I think people that dwell in their high school is like the best years
• 49:41
  They miss out on everything else that comes after because they're like always looking back and they still look exactly the same as they did in high school
• 49:47
  Yeah, I don't want to crack it anyway, but there are people that are fine with that. Yeah
• 49:51
  They're comfortable with right you think back and there's not an evolution that happened the growth
• 49:56
  You miss out on the growth. I get really scared about stuff like that when it's like you're living in the past
• 50:01
  I get really freaked out about stuff like that
• 50:03
  Well, I do too because I live I
• 50:05
  Well, I was here so early that I feel like this is my hometown right and I'm the only person that hasn't moved on to a town
• 50:11
  That's not their hometown, but just so happens that my hometown became cool
• 50:20
  Yeah, I'm like I'm not in the old town that's like no one wants to be at my town just got cool
• 50:25
  Yeah, and I just from here you got lucky
• 50:30
  I mean I don't think it's quite as isolated as Franklin
• 50:33
  But like similar vibes a lot of people stay close home that kind of thing
• 50:38
  Marion to Chapel Hill like Brawley Durham area to New York back to Asheville and I was like oh
• 50:44
  Asheville is on the rise where it's like some places do you feel like oh it's
• 50:48
  Inclining and I don't know Helena it and we kind of had a weird rough moment
• 50:53
  But it definitely feels like something's brewing
• 50:55
  And I feel like you'll always find your way back home. There you go
• 51:00
  Did you see your Hannah Montana 30th? I love 20th?
• 51:03
  Yes, I
• 51:07
  I grew up on Hannah Montana
• 51:09
  Did it give you a personality disorder you think
• 51:14
  Maybe I've got all these all you know the closet the closet though like with the rotating theme
• 51:22
  I have never watched me neither
• 51:24
  I just found out that she was like a a singer
• 51:27
  Miley yeah, you don't know I know Miley
• 51:30
  No, that the actual show is about a singer. Yeah, not a singer in your life very meta
• 51:37
  I didn't even know that no, I just found this out because I turned it on
• 51:40
  Yeah, I was like what do you like about Hannah Montana? I just don't get it and
• 51:43
  It was funny actually she created the 20th just by telling people it was gonna happen. Yeah
• 51:48
  Yeah, yeah, she's just starting to tell people she just spread the word and then it forced the big guys to make this happen
• 51:54
  But anyways when she said that they she in the show she was explaining this
• 51:59
  I didn't even know that about it. I just I knew the show
• 52:02
  I didn't know what the premise was and I saw on like tiktok or Instagram
• 52:06
  They did like a cut screen of like she recreated the final scene. I guess and I saw that
• 52:11
  But it was like a social experiment that they did on Miley Cyrus
• 52:14
  Right, it was yeah, but here's the thing is that she's talking about like I was trying out
• 52:19
  I didn't know how to get the part she was not so long. Mm-hmm
• 52:22
  She's Billy race Cyrus's daughter. Yeah, she's dolly parton's god daughter
• 52:26
  That's what she is like I hate that bullshit about people saying yes, I just worked so hard and I tried out and I could I didn't take her leave it
• 52:35
  And they're not only were like this feels to me like my parents just assuming that I was gonna go to college on merit-based scholarship
• 52:43
  Yeah, they're like our child the genius look at her at these scores
• 52:46
  She's gonna we don't need to save for it
• 52:49
  And that was not the case because by the time I went to college everybody else's parents were also like
• 52:54
  Gunning for that stuff. And so yeah, you're competing with a lot of people. Yeah, we never mind
• 52:58
  And this is like kind of
• 53:00
  In Cindy area say like that guy was like let me just waste the conservative view in like a microwave
• 53:05
  but like
• 53:07
  There's also this push for diversity which is right and good and it should be happening
• 53:12
  But it means that for the first time in American history anyway true like white people are having to like wake up and
• 53:18
  But come excellent. We don't get it just for like rolling out of bed that morning
• 53:22
  So I feel like from Miley Cyrus's perspective. She probably was up against a bunch of other girls
• 53:28
  Well, she said she only did it so that she could get the guy back in her hometown a kid in high school
• 53:32
  Don't you think she's peeing?
• 53:34
  I don't like the bullshit story about like I'm waiting. I was gonna get it. I'm like you were
• 53:41
  primed yeah, and you have every connection possibly make it happen for you
• 53:46
  What if you take the word primed and instead you said groomed
• 53:50
  Okay, what if you were like destined your whole life people
• 53:53
  This was your function and you need to go perform it
• 53:56
  And by the way you don't get to go home where your boss isn't watching you anymore because your boss is watching all the time
• 54:00
  Trust me that the Michael Jackson. Yeah, by the way, there's a new movie coming. I know Michael
• 54:06
  Okay, so tell me here. What is happening with Michael Jackson?
• 54:09
  Because the first one not supposed to listen to him because I thought he was canceled
• 54:13
  But I wonder if it's the Epstein vials have revealed something about his real role in trying to protect these kids
• 54:19
  I've asked my kids if they know about this
• 54:21
  But I think there's a lot of Instagram
• 54:23
  Reels or like a viral thing happening where he was literally trying to protect them from Epstein and Epstein like people
• 54:31
  Now that's not fry your brain because I grew up learning he was a pedophile
• 54:35
  Yes, and then you know remember they had the documentary came out and then we were all supposed to like stop listening to his music
• 54:42
  Yeah, well, it's like the artist from the art
• 54:48
  It's the same with like Woody Allen
• 54:50
  And these are like creepy dudes where you're like why do you make good things?
• 54:54
  Are you horrible and make great things incredible
• 54:57
  I do the Michael Jackson thing where he gets on his toes
• 55:00
  Not on these shoes. I can't crease on it. Let's hold film a moon walk
• 55:07
  But that was one of that's my connection to Michael Jackson
• 55:12
  Actually, what's your perspective on Michael Jackson like not
• 55:15
  Thank you. That's all yeah growing up in the 80s and like being a pop star
• 55:19
  I just
• 55:20
  Music I was like oh, this is really good
• 55:22
  And I was like oh my you know like and I was telling my parents and they were like yes
• 55:26
  So by the way apparently he's a pedophile and I was like
• 55:29
  noted and then I would still go put it on in Spotify. So I don't know if that says something about my moral character
• 55:34
  But that was my connection and none of us like I'm never really talking my friends
• 55:39
  I will say this when I talk about Michael Jackson in my age a lot of older people are like you still listen to Michael Jackson really
• 55:46
  Yeah, so that's like the only thing the rest of us were like oh
• 55:50
  There's like really cool like high freels on tiktok to Michael Jackson song. So they're hype
• 55:56
  You just reminded me something. Oh actually brought an idea into my mind. What about
• 56:01
  Ideas coming to us remotely through these devices. I think
• 56:05
  Remote ideas we talk about gravity and about like attracting things and I I can get really down about the world
• 56:13
  Like if we start talking politics. I like don't know how to dig myself out of that hole at the time
• 56:18
  Skill them building, but I am so jazzed to be alive during this time like I can get really down to mouth about it
• 56:25
  But if I zoom out far enough, I'm like this is a crazy time
• 56:28
  I'm so thankful
• 56:29
  I got to experience the internet and like the connecting of the globe and the free flow of ideas
• 56:35
  Which might be about to close down, you know, it was the Wild West when the internet started and we're slowly
• 56:40
  I think it'll close down just as a consequence of it being
• 56:44
  Inundated with AI. Yeah, I think it'll close down. I know I care about like server space and story
• 56:49
  Yeah, trying to reckon with but the idea that I grew up when you could just like pirate music
• 56:53
  You know, oh my god. Thanks for my music career. Thank you very much. Sorry
• 56:57
  But as someone who really expanded my palette and I'm really thankful, but what about the first thing?
• 57:03
  Go stream enemy lovers. The thing is that once that started happening music
• 57:09
  ceased to get have it's it's
• 57:12
  Regional taste. It's flavor now. We've got a global right every type of music started to be
• 57:18
  Influence by all these different pieces and started being a melting pot of sounds versus like a Seattle sound or a national sound or a Memphis sound
• 57:28
  South Florida Miami sound like they're used to being pockets of movements that would happen
• 57:33
  But now our sounds and our ideas are drawn in remotely and then influence
• 57:38
  What could have been real about that culture? What could have been authentic in that culture?
• 57:42
  I think I'm going on the path that you maybe you're going on and I'm feeling
• 57:46
  opposite of you really feel like it's blending out yeah because I
• 57:51
  Was Justin Madrid, which is a city that I love and it was the first time I've been there a few times
• 57:57
  It was the first time where I was like
• 58:00
  There's too much American culture here like it was trying to be New York
• 58:04
  They're like brunch spot and I'm like no there should not be brunch in Madrid like this goes against everything that's part of that culture
• 58:12
  Yes, which is what I want to travel for eight hours on a plane to visit because I want something different
• 58:19
  And I feel like all this ease of connectivity is really
• 58:25
  Deluting new ideas exactly because we just want to like recycle and pass through the ideas that are out there already that are popular
• 58:32
  And I don't think there's space for a lot of new ideas to come to the
• 58:37
  Surface it's kind of like what you see in movies where you don't really see I mean the one you were talking about this morning
• 58:42
  Maybe the project film area. I think that's one of the first
• 58:46
  Um, like a fresh idea on the screen. Yeah, but all of them are like remakes. Yes
• 58:51
  Remix is of the same thing and I think the internet is a remix and I'm not against the remix
• 58:56
  This hip hop is killer and it all about the remix
• 58:59
  But I wonder if when you don't have some sort of
• 59:03
  Container or restriction. It's if it starts to be diluted. Yeah, because there's too many things being added
• 59:10
  To give it its flavor like a richness. I don't know. Oh, sorry. There's no digital isolation
• 59:15
  Like you can't it's so it's all like you know like you hear about like
• 59:19
  Our great artists of time would go off and create their own art
• 59:22
  But they had to do it away because they they wanted to have like their own mind
• 59:27
  Influenza and I feel like there's that doesn't happen in the digital space exactly the mystery of our own ingenuity. Yeah
• 59:33
  I wonder though
• 59:35
  So like I live my partner Alex wonderful wonderful qualities. He has he does not get out of the house much
• 59:42
  And we're working on that
• 59:45
  He's
• 59:49
  To balance my energy out. So I'm also called by yeah, he's well
• 59:53
  He loves being around people who just like isn't gonna without the prompt go out and see things. So that's what I do
• 59:59
  but he
• 1:00:01
  He really does open my mind. He's this is the video games guy. You were talking the Reggie about you
• 1:00:05
  We don't like video games, but he's working on me
• 1:00:07
  He you know spin so much time online almost as if he's a generation younger. I think like he says he was raised by a TV
• 1:00:14
  He's raised by Nintendo and he laughs about that. Sorry, Breton Lisa. We don't take it too seriously, but
• 1:00:19
  He um
• 1:00:21
  He is a big redditor. He doesn't pose but he works. Yeah, and he because he invests his time in energy in the space
• 1:00:28
  He finds little mocks and crannies
• 1:00:31
  He finds these little niche communities where people are there. So it's like a different form of it's a more sort of maybe intellectual
• 1:00:39
  Or psychological grouping of people versus a regional grouping of people and from somewhere. I think it starts to
• 1:00:46
  I do think there's gonna be a resurgence. I think it's already happening where people are like I'm tired of
• 1:00:52
  The Americanized white lens being shown on my culture and like it getting mellowed out
• 1:00:58
  I think people are starting to ask the question like where am I from and what does it mean to be from that place?
• 1:01:04
  I'm right. Yeah, I think being from I'm just moving back to Asheville has really
• 1:01:09
  Put this in perspective for me. There's a lot of stuff about I'm looking at you because I'm like Appalachian
• 1:01:14
  Well, there's a lot of stuff about Appalachian culture that I think hurt me as a kid like that change to I was in ways that
• 1:01:21
  Yeah, I'm not really always proud of
• 1:01:24
  But there's also like we are a flavor of white person
• 1:01:27
  Like we're one of the segments of white people that I'm like, oh, we've got something
• 1:01:33
  I'm not sure. It's not like purely good. We have dolly part
• 1:01:36
  We've got dolly for dolly part. Yeah, but it's made me and my brother moved home and we've got all these things happening
• 1:01:44
  But it makes me a lot prouder to be like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna take this piece of Appalachian culture
• 1:01:49
  This belongs to me and like let's not let this part die off like playing a bandro
• 1:01:54
  Did you imagine us having this conversation while I'm just like
• 1:01:56
  I
• 1:02:01
  Okay, so back to the Alex niche thing as I think it's a rebellion against what we're talking about
• 1:02:06
  I don't think it's because of what we're talking about
• 1:02:08
  I think it's gotten so people are so fed up like my son's fed up with culture
• 1:02:13
  He was wanting real life culture. It's just like the culture that mainstream culture
• 1:02:17
  And he wants to niche into his gamers guys. Yeah, he will speak his language
• 1:02:22
  So I wonder if it's not a result of it. Well, it's the consequence of it or the it is a result of it
• 1:02:26
  But I don't think it's fed it. I think it's caused a reversion
• 1:02:31
  To me shing to creating these things where people actually care about each other. It's not just advertising and marketing
• 1:02:37
  I know rather people did that in person. It's not that. I think it's cool. I love a repeal rebel against the man
• 1:02:44
  There you Alex you're an insurgent the man I
• 1:02:49
  Yeah, I just I think it is neither better nor worse. It's just different. But I
• 1:02:57
  I agree that we should not let all these
• 1:03:00
  valuable rich
• 1:03:02
  Interesting cultures just completely get assimilated or annihilated by whatever it is we're putting out there
• 1:03:09
  I remember when I was setting when guistics in school they were talking about how quickly
• 1:03:13
  Different languages are dying off yeah, and sometimes I think about culture through that lens is like culture is music
• 1:03:18
  So much. Yeah, and there already has been and I think that's
• 1:03:23
  I'm gonna blame colonialism. I'm gonna blame on some level patriarchy
• 1:03:26
  But um, I think that we're waking up to it. So yeah, let's call it immature patriarchy. Sure agree
• 1:03:32
  immature boy men trying to yeah dominate everything. Yeah, I yeah, I feel I'm more of a egalitarian, but um, yeah
• 1:03:39
  I do think the idea that something has been lost that is true to me
• 1:03:43
  But I also think there's not that's not to say that it can't be like found rediscovered
• 1:03:48
  I think this is one of the reasons I love older people like they just remember a different version of the world
• 1:03:53
  And I'm fascinated by that. I love old people too. Yeah, I just wish we could like
• 1:03:59
  bring old people back
• 1:04:01
  Our culture doesn't really admire or they couldn't do anything like go away
• 1:04:04
  We don't want to see you like I dream of a time when you could sit around a fire and hear from the old people
• 1:04:11
  Like why learn from them? Yeah, should we schedule something?
• 1:04:15
  Thank you
• 1:04:17
  All person fire gathering we'll put it on the calendar
• 1:04:19
  Also, here's the thing is I also think old people have also lost the practice. Yeah, yes, because if you sit with an old person
• 1:04:27
  It's like the culture has trained us to kind of
• 1:04:30
  I don't know if it's trained them that they don't matter. Yeah, I think that's it's hard to get something out of them
• 1:04:36
  I think like they're yeah, they're like they're not relevant. Yeah
• 1:04:40
  They've been just they've watched other elders be disrespected and they're expecting that right
• 1:04:45
  And society like my
• 1:04:47
  Guys are asking like what do we do in Easter my neighbor turned 80
• 1:04:51
  She's a twin and she still looks yeah, she still is by herself
• 1:04:55
  Wow, she's fabulous. She's like a no she was an artist her whole life, and so she threw a big like potluck party
• 1:05:02
  And oh my god, I just lost my turn
• 1:05:04
  Sorry, welcome to
• 1:05:07
  I know the story tell it. I've ever been to in my life
• 1:05:10
  So good with the point of the whole idea
• 1:05:13
  Kotluck, we do this all the time. I feel like that words got to be in this
• 1:05:18
  We need to put potluck in it
• 1:05:25
  What I was going to say is we're talking about like is it society?
• 1:05:28
  And I think our society is evolving without thinking about elders at all
• 1:05:34
  She has this little sleep this little sleep app actually really impressed like she researched it online
• 1:05:41
  Yes, the full device she puts on our finger. Is it an or ring? It's not an aura, but it's it's like that
• 1:05:47
  Where but it's just for measuring like her sleep potential sleep app yet. Wow
• 1:05:52
  So she went she she bought it online, which is a big thing
• 1:05:56
  Yeah, but she couldn't get it to work and she was like I try and call in customer service
• 1:06:00
  Which we know how that goes and then she was like they said the Bluetooth and this and that and I was like you know what?
• 1:06:06
  Our whole society has evolved leaving behind like a whole generation of people just expecting that they're going to like
• 1:06:14
  Somehow or not participate in it like it's just it was really rude
• 1:06:18
  I felt like offended for her that I
• 1:06:21
  And if you go to any place where the people yeah, it's super depressing
• 1:06:24
  Yes, I have a friend that went he was he suffered um
• 1:06:30
  West Nile virus
• 1:06:33
  From a mosquito bite around the region, which is kind of scary anyway
• 1:06:36
  He was paralyzed in his leg and he was staying at this place. It's supposed to be a rehab
• 1:06:41
  physical rehab, but
• 1:06:45
  Almost like they're just sitting watching TV waiting to die. Yeah, so walking down this
• 1:06:51
  There's so many stories. There's so many like
• 1:06:54
  Wiz pieces of wisdom that are lying around in this place
• 1:06:59
  Absolutely just kind of imprisoned. Yeah, so true. We my mom has thought for many years
• 1:07:05
  I wish she'd do this Allison. This is your sign get off your ass and do this project
• 1:07:09
  She's talked about
• 1:07:14
  She's talked about doing an oral history project and just going and sitting with older people and like collecting the stories of the region
• 1:07:21
  My grandpa died. I asked my grandma if she could write what she remembered of him in a story
• 1:07:26
  Because you realize when you lose someone that that was the person holding it
• 1:07:30
  Yeah, they were holding the memories of their life and that their family and it wasn't a device holding it
• 1:07:39
  And so what when she wrote it down and I got to read it is like how I should have asked her before
• 1:07:44
  My grandpa died. Yeah, because then I would have known his story
• 1:07:47
  And you think you know some of the story especially people close to you
• 1:07:50
  But there's so many things that we don't know about each other
• 1:07:53
  Experiencing these little universes in our cell we're never sitting around a fire with nothing else to do like so we're to come from bud
• 1:07:59
  Yeah, we're like I have five minutes for coffee on Thursday and it's true
• 1:08:03
  What are you trying to use it and the little thing your pocket buzzing the whole thing?
• 1:08:06
  I guess why yeah because the intrinsic value of spending time with each other has been stolen by the reward of time is money
• 1:08:13
  Yes, once you start paying people for their time you start to lose the intrinsic value of time
• 1:08:19
  It's a waste of time and some people don't even have enough time to let someone get a full sentence out
• 1:08:23
  That's what we started using letters. Yeah, that's true. Come to ideas
• 1:08:27
  So I wonder in this remote world because a lot I think a lot of these things are because everything is so remote
• 1:08:36
  Whether it's ideas. Yeah, we're distancing ourselves slowly the lack of culture like being dismembered from culture like I grew up in church
• 1:08:43
  Because my dad was a pastor and we moved kind of like a military family or an army family where you move
• 1:08:48
  As a child I moved five six times. I never knew where I was from
• 1:08:53
  I went to every elementary school everyone knew me, but I didn't know where I was from
• 1:08:57
  So when you have this remote movement happening especially in our in in our businesses
• 1:09:02
  Where do we find that authenticity that culture like how do you craft that or not craft it even because I think that comes off as like
• 1:09:10
  Premeditated and manufactured. How do you reveal the culture of the uniqueness that we possess?
• 1:09:16
  Because we all bring something unique to this world. I know that as a fact and I call it fate
• 1:09:20
  Yeah, you have a fate
• 1:09:21
  It's the destiny is shared, but the fate you have is unique
• 1:09:25
  How do you find that if you're inundated and held up by all this stuff? Good question
• 1:09:29
  So like if we were gonna have an agency that has a virtual office
• 1:09:32
  Maybe there's a place where that remote that freedom that comes in being remote
• 1:09:37
  Is where we allow the culture to happen and bring it back
• 1:09:43
  Well, I love that and I've also been thinking a lot about you know someone who like
• 1:09:49
  grew up I went to college in New York. I stayed there my entire adult life
• 1:09:54
  And always having a little of an egocentric point of view of New York being the center of culture. I mean they are just better
• 1:10:00
  You know, I love New York, but and I will always be my home. Sorry. I keep doing that. It's always being my home
• 1:10:07
  I'll be my home
• 1:10:12
  It's good to be a posture I feel like
• 1:10:15
  And tell this back
• 1:10:20
  So she's a New Yorker we get it
• 1:10:22
  Okay
• 1:10:24
  And I think Asheville has really taught me this is that
• 1:10:28
  Actually, I think the interesting culture is happening in these little micro pockets of places that aren't
• 1:10:35
  The big city that have a big machine behind them that needs especially nowadays needs to keep running and
• 1:10:42
  To keep being fed and manufactured. Yeah, and I feel like it's in all these
• 1:10:48
  Small places where people are I know we're talking about people not feeling connected here
• 1:10:52
  But I do feel like people in Asheville are more connected to each other than I have experienced
• 1:10:58
  Living in New York. Colleen was a great example of that. Yeah, I was so impressed
• 1:11:02
  Yeah, but I think like the the interesting little cultural
• 1:11:06
  Sizzle is happening in these smaller places
• 1:11:09
  I think it happening behind
• 1:11:11
  The curtain. I think it is. He knows yet. They're not getting credit for it. I'm sure he's not onto it yet
• 1:11:17
  But I just don't know
• 1:11:19
  You know like when everything someone wants to like bring something like this is a good idea. This is a good trend
• 1:11:24
  We'd like destroyed. You know, we go like hardcore like we take it 150% like Asheville
• 1:11:29
  I'll use up my own account when someone found out about craft brewing
• 1:11:34
  I can see that
• 1:11:36
  It become a craft brewer. Yeah, and we need a hundred craft brewery. We have like a guild like a brewer's gill
• 1:11:44
  And then you have craft beer tours and you it's like everyone got on the same thing
• 1:11:50
  And like ultra to optimize or or like capitalize on the idea versus it being this thing that just is happy like you craft beer
• 1:11:57
  It's cool. Yeah, let's make craft beer marketing. But I agree. I agree
• 1:12:01
  Mostly men. I'm sure there's some female brewers out there. I
• 1:12:05
  Carlyle who we are gonna have in the studio hopefully in a week or two her husband is a brewer his next Tyler
• 1:12:11
  Really awesome couple and they move from Florida where he was also a brewer and I think they moved to Asheville in part
• 1:12:17
  I think he got a job, but I want to say Hillman or somewhere like that
• 1:12:22
  And I went to there's a conference that we hold in Asheville at the Civic Center put on by the guild
• 1:12:27
  I went with her to that because she loves in particular designing packaging and
• 1:12:32
  Dice for like breweries because they're in the culture. They're such a culture
• 1:12:36
  Not just like the money making culture, but like
• 1:12:39
  Understanding the science of brewing and experimenting almost like artistry. Yeah, so I think you're right
• 1:12:46
  It's probably driven by like oh, we can make a mint in it
• 1:12:48
  I think there's this
• 1:12:50
  Exciting like creative juice. It's like there were the arts district. That's the good part of it
• 1:12:54
  That's the identity or the heart of it
• 1:12:56
  But then branding and marketing comes around and says let's make this into money. Yeah, and it just joins it
• 1:13:02
  It like that's right. I mean even the even musical movements like rung or pop it will not pop pop probably is the problem
• 1:13:09
  But grunge and hardcore and like all these underground movements
• 1:13:13
  Get popularized and then get destroyed like it totally removes the movement
• 1:13:20
  I think we're talking about capitalism
• 1:13:22
  Yeah, I don't like it or not
• 1:13:27
  How do I even know if I like it because I grew up in capitalism
• 1:13:29
  So what is this feast that we're living in and especially owning your own business?
• 1:13:32
  You're like well, I need to
• 1:13:37
  I need it so people can have jobs and you have to be part of the system
• 1:13:40
  But then I also find myself being like the system has been engineered in a way that no longer works for
• 1:13:48
  Like regular people. Well, if you're trying it doesn't work
• 1:13:52
  But maybe if we just let go and we're like I don't want to be prom queen. Okay, get this. This is gonna be good
• 1:13:57
  The nonscience the nonscience
• 1:14:00
  Just gonna be a shawant statement
• 1:14:03
  Tim doesn't know that there is really he can't lie to you and nor do I and I think that's one of the things that I wanted
• 1:14:09
  And I wonder if that's why my son learned the word he's like this
• 1:14:13
  But there is a study right now about the growth economy
• 1:14:17
  Because growth has defined innovation for many many years
• 1:14:23
  But the statistics around what it has provided in medicine and food and progress is off the charts
• 1:14:30
  But guess what it is just started to fall
• 1:14:34
  So all that has been learned through growth
• 1:14:37
  Like we believe growth is like in capitalism growth is a necessity everything must grow or it dies
• 1:14:43
  And that's why companies grow into the point of
• 1:14:45
  Consuming everything else because they just have to yep, but what we're what the research is finding is that growth
• 1:14:52
  All the benefits it brought are now. It's a detraction
• 1:14:56
  This obsession with growth
• 1:14:57
  But we're still using the scarcity mind to keep growing
• 1:15:02
  Like you don't have enough and this is the whole thing with branding that I have
• 1:15:05
  The crisis internally about is that branding we're selling something a product
• 1:15:11
  Is built on telling someone they need the product. Yeah
• 1:15:15
  Yeah, you have to actually talk to them talk them into believing they're not enough and that they need this thing
• 1:15:19
  Yeah, that's how you're going to get happiness and feel fulfillment. Yep. All these things that should be intrinsic and not human
• 1:15:25
  So there is this
• 1:15:28
  Our minds in its scarcity has grown to this level that we're at now where
• 1:15:34
  And this is a part of the research which blew my mind. There is I think one and a half times enough food in the world to feed everyone
• 1:15:42
  The production. Yes, this is real a real study. Huh? What in a half times we could feed literally everyone right now
• 1:15:48
  So is it all going to waste? It's not productive. Yes, it's a distribution thing
• 1:15:52
  It's a control thing. It's there is you have to be dissatisfied in this culture for capitalism to work
• 1:15:58
  That is true
• 1:15:59
  So if you're not dissatisfied I never would think care of and then people will say well, are we going to be motivated if we're not in this growth
• 1:16:04
  Yeah, time and the thing about it is that motivation existed before capitalism was ever invented
• 1:16:09
  It's been driven by creativity exactly
• 1:16:12
  And that has always been a part of human humanity
• 1:16:14
  Yeah, and so we're going to start experiencing
• 1:16:17
  Whether or not the test of whether or not growth at all costs is benefiting anyone
• 1:16:22
  Yeah, or we all drive in ourselves off the cliff. Yeah, because we're intrinsic we're
• 1:16:27
  extrinsically
• 1:16:28
  Value driven money money as Justin Bieber said
• 1:16:33
  I know this because my daughter's a fever fever
• 1:16:36
  Money money money. Oh, he said that money money money. See I went abba
• 1:16:42
  I think you're right and I feel like
• 1:16:46
  The distribution problem is a solvent one and I think definitely solvable
• 1:16:50
  I'm sort of back to like am I bummed or am I excited to be living this time
• 1:16:55
  I really believe I'm going to see the solution. I'm not going to see the
• 1:16:59
  The ultimate solution. You are I hope I'm not going to see the openness
• 1:17:03
  I don't think I'm it's never going to end right, but some of these things that we're bringing up
• 1:17:07
  I'm like, ah, I live on the tipping point. Yeah, I'm hoping I'm hoping that I get to see it before
• 1:17:13
  I'm older and so that I can talk I get to see the renaissance and I get to see the rebuild instead of just the falling down
• 1:17:19
  But that's the part I'm not sure about our work
• 1:17:22
  Yeah, make this is to make me start it like we're the push because we are in brand
• 1:17:26
  I mean, we're not going to say anymore because we kind of have an issue
• 1:17:28
  I'm telling people not to use brand anymore. We're a creative studio
• 1:17:31
  And I'm like a desire and I love it. It's about identity. Yeah, we aren't we identify with things
• 1:17:36
  But use it to change the system. Yeah, don't use it to just add more nonsense to the system
• 1:17:42
  I brought that would be at the goal. You should look at this book. Yeah, I did and the brandy or the I need to fest
• 1:17:48
  I did buy it on Amazon. So think about that for a minute
• 1:17:51
  But an Amazon's in the book. They sold me propaganda against them. Have you seen the good place?
• 1:17:58
  Yeah
• 1:18:01
  Oh, yeah, but
• 1:18:06
  But there it wasn't being sold anywhere that I could find it locally. So talk about distribution of ideas
• 1:18:12
  But we do live in such a clinical time
• 1:18:14
  We do which one could say that AI could help with all of this
• 1:18:18
  Imagine
• 1:18:19
  Because AI is supposed to and it's most utopian state be able to stop us needing to have to grow because it's gonna
• 1:18:28
  It's gonna provide these things for us that we spent our time trying to acquire and grow. So
• 1:18:33
  I as much as every this may be controversial
• 1:18:37
  Oh, yeah, we were talking about I just feel like in the creative field everyone is so anti-AI
• 1:18:43
  How we're so fearful and there I do I understand the slop issue
• 1:18:47
  I got that but I also see how
• 1:18:50
  It could be super beneficial if we could put some good parameters around it and use it in the ways that
• 1:18:59
  I think it actually help us as humans. Yeah, and maybe part of that is in this branding design field
• 1:19:05
  It can take away some of our tasks that were really labor intensive and let us be human together again
• 1:19:11
  Yeah, and free up the extra time to be human to then be creative to make things
• 1:19:16
  So I don't hate AI. Sorry
• 1:19:19
  Everyone all my peers are gonna slay me
• 1:19:22
  Well, it'll come back around and people will be like she was so wise even
• 1:19:27
  Archive this podcast
• 1:19:29
  It's gonna
• 1:19:31
  I'm really um, I realized last night. I was like oh right before I met Tim and Reggie
• 1:19:36
  I got really into
• 1:19:38
  Conceptually into the idea of these long form video or like
• 1:19:42
  Self-film projects and I actually started one in 2024 before all of my life fell apart and I have a little bit of the
• 1:19:49
  Devolution
• 1:19:51
  So that's gonna be fun to post one day
• 1:19:53
  But the idea of like a time capsule
• 1:19:55
  Like this is a moment captured in time and what a crazy thing that I'm gonna get morbid. Sorry
• 1:20:01
  Like we could in 30 years. Let's give ourselves 70 years
• 1:20:05
  We're gonna technology's gonna be crazy. We're gonna live forever
• 1:20:08
  But like we will die and somebody could go back and find like your greatest hit
• 1:20:14
  Yeah, you know, not to like maybe not your voice
• 1:20:16
  We'll speak tasteful about the funeral. Should we?
• 1:20:18
  But like it's there and so I'm really into the idea of this as like a long form art project
• 1:20:25
  We were turned to and like we're we're making something that means something to us
• 1:20:29
  But there will be I'm studying some other people as well. There's gonna be
• 1:20:33
  It's gonna get worse before it gets better. Oh, I think it's definitely gonna get worse
• 1:20:37
  It's gonna people you're gonna go into the sludge
• 1:20:39
  Yeah, you're gonna feel like everything you said is stupid and everybody hates you and like nothing
• 1:20:45
  Yeah, and then give it like another year or two maybe a little more
• 1:20:49
  These days as well and it's accelerated. Yeah, so I don't know
• 1:20:53
  I know you watched a lot of sci-fi and I grew up watching a lot of sci-fi
• 1:20:58
  So
• 1:21:00
  Adrian's house one time and many things I did strangely but one of the things was I
• 1:21:07
  Watch like almost a whole season of Star Trek the next generation
• 1:21:11
  It's an unheard show
• 1:21:13
  And yeah, I couldn't get that off of that show anyway
• 1:21:16
  You watch the last sci-fi growing up. I want and next generation was one of the big shows
• 1:21:22
  Jean-Luc
• 1:21:25
  And it's firing figure even nowadays in my life. Yeah, sometimes we need to do that
• 1:21:30
  24 yes
• 1:21:34
  Maybe because of all the sci-fi I see
• 1:21:37
  Yeah, the potential and I'm like we can do it and AI is like one of those tools that can get us to be there
• 1:21:42
  I just don't trust the
• 1:21:45
  politician
• 1:21:49
  That are
• 1:21:51
  Managing it right now. So maybe the revolution is like and who gets to manage the AI who gets to take control of it because right now
• 1:21:57
  I don't trust them
• 1:21:59
  And I don't know how that culture changes
• 1:22:02
  Yeah, the tech Ann Arkey. Have you heard about it? Yeah, I mean the happening guys put that one in there
• 1:22:07
  Yeah, I thought that's a good idea. Well, I'm so sorry. Could you write that one down to you?
• 1:22:12
  Tech Ann Arkey. We're gonna need anyway. We're probably, you know, we probably need to wrap this
• 1:22:17
  So I guess you brought up something which I think is something that we should bring back around
• 1:22:21
  It's happened. I have this problem where we can never end the podcast
• 1:22:25
  the capsule
• 1:22:26
  in and I grew up
• 1:22:29
  I'm gonna tell you out there make
• 1:22:31
  Videos for yourself where you're talking to yourself. Mm-hmm. It's like a journal, but it allows you to process
• 1:22:39
  A thing like prompt yourself with a question
• 1:22:42
  It's a captain vlog. Oh, yeah, it's like captain's log starting whatever
• 1:22:47
  And then you start to go through sometimes we loop around the same ideas over and over
• 1:22:51
  And we we experience this when we're doing your your pva
• 1:22:55
  We do this thing in 40 hard to call the vision accelerator and we did one for Dylan or like personal vision and
• 1:23:01
  And where we're going and sometimes we loop around the question in kind of a dark mysterious space
• 1:23:07
  And it never feels solved until you lay it out there and you're like oh, I these all these make sense together
• 1:23:13
  All these ideas. I'm having make sense. They're not a confusing circle. They're actually a path
• 1:23:19
  And so I took this course because I was terrible talking line. I still am not great at talking on on camera
• 1:23:25
  So I took this course where I just had to make these videos every day and in talking to myself basically who I was talking to
• 1:23:32
  I started to process things in a different way because I started talking things out and they got out of me
• 1:23:38
  And they weren't like jumbled up inside of me bouncing around
• 1:23:42
  My own thoughts not everyone else's thoughts my own thoughts and when you talk on camera
• 1:23:46
  It's kind of like makes all the other noise
• 1:23:49
  It's frightening how it makes all the other noise like
• 1:23:53
  Silent
• 1:23:55
  You don't know what to say kind of thing but that you just let that uncomfortable place be there
• 1:24:00
  And it's almost if I bring you back to the word
• 1:24:02
  It's like a remote
• 1:24:05
  Conversation with yourself through space and time used to do it with journals and how much
• 1:24:11
  Discovery was made through journals so much and research and just like the archive that you existed
• 1:24:16
  The people who we remember are the ones who wrote their ideas that figure old people your grandparents
• 1:24:22
  Your mentors beg them to record themselves talking
• 1:24:26
  About their story about their their their their life because I think if we lose that
• 1:24:33
  We will be a drift
• 1:24:35
  There's no way we'll get back great use case for otter. I have several
• 1:24:39
  I've been even like there's some friends of mine. I asked before I do it
• 1:24:42
  I'm like do you mind if I record this and it's like a little podcast for myself. Yeah, do you listen to um
• 1:24:49
  We're talking about this is I gonna go not yet. I am. I've got this idea. Yeah. Well, I honestly
• 1:24:55
  I'm telling you I'm gonna like devise something with it. I think one of these days, but
• 1:25:00
  Yeah, life stories are where it's that that's that's how we get back to novel storytelling
• 1:25:05
  And not just like the remix of the remix. Yeah, although we live in remix culture
• 1:25:09
  And there's something if you lean into it. There's something really cool. Yeah, and I'm not and I'm not
• 1:25:13
  I don't ever want to say that you can't find
• 1:25:16
  Ingenuity and creativity in the remix. Yeah vintage shopping. There you go. Yes, my favorite
• 1:25:24
  Right, so I really enjoy this conversation
• 1:25:28
  We never know
• 1:25:31
  It's so much fun. I feel like you just sit here all day. I know that's how you feel
• 1:25:35
  But they are definitely feeling like they're wasting their time
• 1:25:39
  We only want to record like around an hour of content and I book a two-hour window and we are almost to the end of a guy
• 1:25:47
  No way did we really talk that long that one by fast
• 1:25:50
  Well, I appreciate everyone out there who's listening and we do value your time
• 1:25:55
  And we hope this was interesting helpful to you in it in some way, but we'll see you next time
• 1:26:00
  Hi
• 1:26:03
  I love you
• 1:26:08
  Thanks for listening this podcast was created and developed by our hosts
• 1:26:13
  Reggie Tidwell, Tim's Grogs, Mary Green, and Dylan Garcia
• 1:26:18
  Today's episode featured special guest, Adrienne Mugan
• 1:26:22
  Produced by me, Mary Green
• 1:26:25
  Live production and editing by Will Kennedy
• 1:26:27
  Graphic design by Dylan Garcia
• 1:26:30
  Set design by Megan's Grogs
• 1:26:32
  Today's episode is presented lovingly by 40 hearts
• 1:26:37
  Creators of enduring value