Latest / BOB DOLE : 1995 Clinton's Comeback / Episode 494: BOB DOLE 1995 Clintons Comeback Bosnia (Part D) More of the Senate Debate (3)

Transcript

Episode 494: BOB DOLE 1995 Clintons Comeback Bosnia (Part D) More of the Senate Debate (3) · BOB DOLE : 1995 Clinton's Comeback

• 0:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh just before the distinguished senator from California leaves the floor, I was uh greatly taken by your closing remarks, and I think I jotted it down accurately.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_04: I may be wrong.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_04: I may be back here on the floor asking that we bring our troops home.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_04: Senator, that's precisely why I oppose this presidential decision to send over a third significant element of U.S.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_04: troops on the ground.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_04: This nation experienced that problem in Lebanon.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_04: This nation experienced that problem in Somalia.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_04: I happen to have been on this floor protecting the presidential prerogative at the time we took serious casualties in Somalia, some 18 killed in one day, and some 70 plus wounded on that same day.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: And said it's the president's decision as Commander-in-Chief when that mission is completed and when our forces should be brought home.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: And we had a very vigorous battle right here on the floor of the Senate about that Somalia situation, and by a very narrow vote, just a few above a handful, is my recollection.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I voted for the president, and only a few of us had the margin by five or six votes to establish the president's clear right to determine when to bring those troops home and not rush to judgment in the sorrow, in the sorrow of those severe casualties.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: This is what's bothered me.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think our credibility, the credibility of the United States of America, will be far more endangered if we were faced in six or eight months with a decision to bring them home because of casualties and other unforeseen problems than if we make the stand now not to do it and make the third element of contribution on the ground.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_05: With the Senator Justil for a very brief moment.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: I would Ms.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: President, I don't yield the floor, you for questions.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I understand.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: I I just wanted to respond to my friend.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_05: And I I will, of course, put it in the form of a question, but um the deployments that my friend talked about, I did not support.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I come here to say that I think it is worth a try in an area of the world where we have lost thousands and thousands and thousands of Americans.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_05: Now, if the senator believes that there's no chance that this war could spread and that this mission cannot change that, and is not important and isn't worth trying, then he should absolutely vote against the Dole McCain Amendment.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I respect his right.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_05: All this senator is saying that I have waited, and I believe, and I take full responsibility for that vote, and I respect my friend if he comes down on the other side, that in this part of the world we have an opportunity to make a difference for peace.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_05: If it doesn't work out, we at least have tried to do so, and I do view it quite differently than in the other areas that my friend has uh has pointed to.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_05: And I I did not support those deployments, uh I say to my friend.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_05: I guess I didn't have a question, I merely wanted to respond.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_05: But I have the utmost respect for my friend for whatever conclusion he reaches, and I hope he would have that same respect for this senator if she comes down on another side.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: Mr.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: President, I say to my colleague from California, this vote is a matter of clear conscience, not politics.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: And each of us has to draw on their own life's experiences, their own best judgment, and make this tough decision.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_05: I agree with my friend.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I am on the side opposite of the Senate from California and will oppose uh the resolution.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_04: That is the amendment.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is Port D of the SAG debate.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Bosnia, Port D of this episode on Bosnia.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is the uh third episode of Listen to the SAG debate on the subject.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: We've got several senators lined up for you, and uh, I think you'll get a real sense for uh how this is going on the Senate floor.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Senator John Warren.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_04: I'll go with more detail concerning my concerns.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: Indeed, this is one of the most important debates that I've been privileged to participate in in the recent history of the United States Senate.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: Our nation has experienced a gradually growing involvement of its armed forces in the tragic civil war in Bosnia and other contiguous areas in the former Yugoslavia.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_04: Over the past year, U.S.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: airmen have flown the majority of the air missions over Bosnia, and U.S.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_04: Naval and Marine Corps personnel stationed in the Adriatic off the Dalmatian coast have provided a very significant percentage of the ships and the missions involved in those operations in that part of the region.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: America is heavily committed with its NATO allies and others at this very moment.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_04: There's a misconception that we're not there and that we've got to go wrong.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_04: We are there very significantly at this particular time, and we have been now for well over a year.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: But now the president has directed a further and very significant expansion of U.S.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_04: military involvement.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_04: I credit the President, the Secretary of State, and others for working out an agreement which I don't refer to as a peace agreement, but nevertheless, it is an agreement that has led to a very substantial lessening of the hostilities.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's an agreement that possibly could have, in some future date, the foundation for a cessation of hostilities, but I do not find that condition to exist now.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: Therefore, the president has ordered ground troops, some 20,000 for actual deployment to Bosnia, and approximately another 14,000 to be deployed in the contiguous areas or nearby as support.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_04: Backup.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: But now we learn that almost a force of equal size will be required as backup.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: That's prudent military planning.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: But the initial impression across the land was a lesser number.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_04: Ever since this presidential decision nearly two years ago, I have consistently expressed my concerns.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: And today I join with many other senators in expressing, indeed, my total disagreement with the president.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: I do so respectfully in his role as president, as commander-in-chief.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm sure the president recognizes I have a right to express my views and do so as a matter of conscience.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: President Clinton made this decision on his own, without, again, in my judgment and experience of some 17 years in this body, without that level of consultation from the Congress that I believe might have contributed to a different decision.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: And now the nation is left with trying how to decide what to do.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: As the elected representatives of the people, we here in Congress can ensure that their voice and their concern is heard.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm privileged to do so on behalf of many, many Virginians with whom I visited and from whom I've heard over the past months.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: Mr.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: President, I have always been a strong supporter of presidential and constitutional prerogatives.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: I expressed that in my colloquy with the distinguished senate from California, particularly in the area of foreign policy, and particularly the authority, quote, as commander-in-chief, end quote, the very phrase that is employed in our historic Constitution.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_04: And his right as commander-in-chief to deploy, send beyond our shores into harm's way, if necessary, the men and women of the armed forces of the United States.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: Presidents have judiciously exercised that awesome power since the very formative days of our republic.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_04: And therefore, I do not challenge the constitutional authority of the president to deploy U.S.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_04: ground troops to Bosnia.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: He has that right under the Constitution.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: I do, however, challenge the wisdom of President Clinton's decision to involve this third significant element of U.S.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_04: forces, namely on the ground in the territory of Bosnia.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: On the question of constitutionality, I ask you now, Mr.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: President, to include in the record following my remarks a very fine analysis of that issue, one that has been debated on this floor many times, by the Honorable Lloyd Cutler, former counselor to the President.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_04: Without objection, so ordered.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_04: I thank the chair.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: Since the beginning of the conflict in Bosnia in 92, as I said, I have consistently opposed these ground troops.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: And today we're faced with the situation of what do we do?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: My votes today, expressing opposition to this presidential decision, goes back to the fundamental question: does the United States have a vital, and I repeat and emphasize the word vital national security interests at stake in this region of the world, such vital security interests to a level that would justify the added deployment of U.S.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: ground troops into a region that we know is fraught with risk.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_04: I see on the floor the distinguished senator from Nebraska, and I was privileged to accompany him to this region, the region of Criena, not more than a month or so ago in early September.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: And we saw with our own eyes the ravages of this war-torn region.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_04: We looked into the faces of refugees and combatants and non-combatants alike.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_04: And this was the fifth in a series of trips that I have conducted to this region over the years since it has started.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: I wish to acknowledge, Mr.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: President, to my distinguished colleague how much I valued the opportunity to travel with this distinguished senator, a former naval officer highly decorated, and a man whose judgment and opinion I greatly value on military matters.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: The reason I raise this is that I wish to apply a test to this decision.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: Along these lines, would I be able to go into the home of a service person who had been either killed or wounded in Bosnia as a consequence of this proposed deployment and explain to parents or a spouse or the children of or their loved ones why this individual was sent and why, in my opinion, their risks taken and consequences suffered were justified.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: This is a duty I performed earlier in life as a young Marine officer and again as Secretary of the Navy, and it is not an easy one, Mr.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_04: President, and I apply that test today.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_04: I could not justify such sacrifice given the current situation in that region and the current status diplomatically and militarily of all the circumstances surrounding this peace accord.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: I have listened carefully to the administration's justifications for this deployment, but I do not find a vital U.S.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: national security interest at stake in Bosnia that would justify the use of ground troops at this time in that nation.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: I do not want to see further American casualties in trying to resolve a civil war based on centuries-old religious and cultural hatreds, which none of us, I certainly say, as hard as I've studied and based on five trips, I do not understand how people in this civilized age of mankind, in this age of instant communications and exchange of information and ideas, that these well-educated people, then let there be no ex, no doubt about it, these people are comparatively well-educated, yet they behave in such a manner as to be borderline in savagery.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: I can't understand it, Mr.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_04: President.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_04: I can't understand it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_04: I remember so well a hearing of the Armed Services Committee in the aftermath of Somalia.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember one, Colonel Larry Joyce, the father of a young ranger that was killed in the mission I described earlier on October 6th, came before that committee and he said to the senators as follows, and I'd like to read his exact words, and I quote Too frequently policymakers are insulated from the misery they create.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: If they could be with the chaplain, who rings a doorbell at 6.20 in the morning to tell a 22-year-old woman she's now a widow, they develop their policies more carefully.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_04: I have been deeply moved, as have every other member of the Senate, and indeed all Americans, by the suffering as a consequence of these hatreds and these atrocities.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_04: And one house with the geraniums out, the fresh laundry, and the house right next to it flattened to the ground.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: Flattened because it was once occupied by a Serb.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_04: And therefore, when that Serb fled this village, where he or she or the family had lived in comparable peace with their neighbors, but when they were forced to leave in the face of the Croatian military moving in, then the locals turned upon the house, the house being a symbol of their hatred for that individual, and blew it up and destroyed it.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_04: Thought that it would be of no use to anyone ever again.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: And we saw that, Senator, as you recall, village after village, a manifestation of hatred which we cannot understand.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: I remember so well the Secretary of Defense.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: In his testimony before our committee, he said, and I'll have the quote in here accurately, but the thrust of it was our greatest risk are the hatreds among the people.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_04: The greatest risk are troops.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: That's what concerns me.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_04: I do not want to see 20,000 U.S.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: troops placed in the middle of this 500-year-old sea of hatred.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: Not at this time.
• 18:14
  unknown: Mr.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: President, we have heard President Clinton say that U.S.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: troops are not being sent to Bosnia to fight a war, but rather to help implement a peace agreement.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: According to a December 2 radio address by the President, he said, quote, it's a peace that the people of Bosnia want.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_04: It's a peace that they have demanded.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yet I say to my colleagues, most respectfully, I disagree, Mr.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_04: President, with your assessment.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the events of recent days, of recent weeks, of recent months have been a harping things to come.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_04: At the very time that the NATO implementation force, I-4, is beginning its deployment to Bosnia, and Bosnian Croats are burning villages which will be returned to Bosnian Serb control.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Villages which we, the West, will have to rebuild, I expect.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: Reach into your pockets.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: Reach into your pockets and take out the funds we're going to be called upon to rebuild these houses, which has been wanted to be destroyed, but not as a consequence of troops marching through, in some instances, yes, but largely because of the hatred that exists.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: These are not the actions of a people or peoples who have embraced a peace.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_04: At this point, all we can really say is that the three leaders of these regions will have done their best to work out an agreement, but only time will tell the extent to which the people will eventually embrace this agreement.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_04: But nevertheless, the president's made a decision pursuant to his constitutional authority.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: Troops are now being deployed.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_04: Initial elements have already arrived.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: We've seen the pride in which the Marines and others have unfurled old glory on Bosnian soil.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_04: We salute them and we say, one and all, unanimously in this chamber, we support our troops.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_04: It's been my privilege to work for these 17 years on the Senate Armed Services Committee, to visit our troops throughout the world, wherever they've deployed, many times to the Gulf Region, to Somalia, and other areas to see our troops in action.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I commit unequivocally, in the same way I have throughout my entire adult life, to their support.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: And on that point, I'd like to address an issue which I don't think has been addressed by any other senator today.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_04: It concerns me greatly.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_04: Because frequently I've heard a few individuals in high positions, both in the executive branch and I think in the Congress of the United States, make a statement along the line that, well, they're volunteers.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_04: They can go.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: Now, Mr.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_04: President, we are very proud in our country to have the all-volunteer force.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: It originated, again, when I was privileged to be a Secretary of the Navy in the Department of Defense, and it was a direct it was a direct decision from the then Secretary of Defense, Melvin R.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: Laird.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: And having heard these statements and becoming greatly troubled, I wrote the former secretary and asked for his view and also explicitly just once again state how we decided to have this force.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_04: Because recall during Vietnam the great strife across this nation, much of that strife directed at force conscription in the draft.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: And President Nixon and Secretary Laird said they were going to take a risk.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_04: And initiate the all-volunteer force.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: I read from Mr.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: Laird's letter of December 12th, 1995, and ask Human's consent that the entire letter be placed in the record.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_04: Without objection to order.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: He stated, because they have volunteered as opposed to being drafted for military service does not mean there can be less of a standard for when it's in our vital national interest to interject them into a dangerous environment.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_04: End quote.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: That's right on point, Mr.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: Secretary Laird.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_04: That's right on point.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: You're the father of the all-volunteer force.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_04: It has worked and worked beyond expectation to the benefit of this country.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I would not like to see this rhetoric in any way erode the proud all-volunteer force concept that we have today.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_04: Mr.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_04: President, the clear implication of those critics that use this phrase, well, they are volunteers, is that we're willing to send those who serve in the volunteer force to a foreign land to do missions and take risks that we would not have asked of a military draftee.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: Wrong.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: This is an atrocious implication.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_04: Mr.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_04: President, I hope the members of this Senate will dispel any idea that because currently the members of the armed forces of the United States are all volunteers, that they should be treated with any less concern than we have for generations treated the previous armed forces, whether they're draftees, reserved, called up voluntarily or involuntary or whatever the case is, once they don that uniform, they deserve no less than the highest concern by the Congress and indeed the President.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: Americans willing to ask these volunteers to risk their lives into performance of missions that do not fit the clear test of being in the vital national security interests of this country, I have to ask of ourselves a question.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_04: When the Congress decided we would fill the ranks of our military volunteers, a policy, as I said, was initiated in the latter part of the Vietnam War of 72-73.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_04: One of the concerns expressed at that time was might our military be viewed as a mercenary force?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: And you'll recall from your history that the concept of mercenaries prevailed through much of Europe in the history of the Middle Ages and indeed into this century.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: In fact, Great Britain sent mercenaries to our colonies often to try and subject us.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, I believe that every senator in this body would agree that while our soldiers, sailor, airmen, and marines of today are volunteers, they are not mercenaries.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: So let us put to an end any comment about, since they're volunteers, they deserve any less measure of concern by the Congress.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_04: The Congress stands 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 12 months a year as trustees, trustees to guard the safety and the welfare of those who wear the uniform and of those families here at home who await them.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: Mr.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_04: President, there are many aspects of this I-4 deployment which I find troubling.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_04: First and foremost, I do not believe the mission of I-4 has been carefully and clearly articulated.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_04: In addition to the specific military task which I-4 is charged with in the Dayton Accords, there are a list of, quote, supporting tasks, end quote, which in my view will inevitably lead to, quote, mission creep, end quote, and for I-4's involvement in implementing the non-military aspects of the peace agreement.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: For example, I-4 is called on to assist the UNHCR, UNI Commission for Refugees, and other international organizations in their humanitarian missions to prevent interference with the movement of civilian populations and refugees, and to respond to deliberate violence to life and person.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_04: It is not clear what guidelines, if any, have been given to the commanders on the ground to help those commanders determine when I-4 should get involved in these, quote, supporting tasks, end quote, or should not get involved.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_04: This must be clarified in the mission strictly limited to implementing the military aspects of the Peace Accord agreement.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_04: I think that should be done before any further soldier, sailor, airman, arene departs our country to go to that region.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: I'm also concerned about the administration's lack of adequate exit strategy and the announced time limit of 12 months for this mission.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: Just announcing that we will leave in 12 months is not an exit strategy.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: We've got to make sure that there's a balance of military forces between these warring factions.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: That balance will serve as a far better deterrent.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_04: A far better deterrent than anything else we can do.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I salute the distinguished majority leader, the Senate from Kansas, Mr.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_04: Dole.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I have joined him in the past year in trying to implement the concept of taking one of those factions, the Bosnians, and bringing their level of armaments up to where they can provide a deterrent to attack.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's naive to believe that in 12 months the U.S.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: and NATO military involvement will wipe away century-old hostilities.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: What I fear we're facing is a temporary lull in the fighting until the international community withdraws its troops.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_04: And then I ask my colleagues what will happen to the credibility of the United States and NATO if this mission ends inconclusively, possibly even judged by those to be failure because the conflict resumes.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: Just as we depart, the firing will commence.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: Remember, remember those pictures of our brave Marines as they left Somalia and the people on the shore firing at them.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_04: Live ammunition fire as they disembarked in their small craft to go out to a larger American warship and return home.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_04: I don't forget that.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_04: I don't forget those instances.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_04: Mr.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_04: President, because of the serious concerns which I have outlined, I will vote to oppose this deployment of U.S.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_04: ground troops.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_04: This was not an easy decision for any of us to make.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_04: When I do it as a matter of conscience.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: But if that full deployment is to occur, and does occur, then I will, as I have, in every day I've served in this United States Senate, support the troops 100% in every way I know how.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: I ask unanimous to get further that recent editorials on this situation by the former distinguished Secretary of the Navy James Webb and by a former professional officer Harry Summers appear in the record followed with my remarks.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Senator Georgia.
• 30:26
  unknown: Mr.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: President, today or tomorrow, the Senate will be voting on the President's decision to deploy U.S.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: military forces as part of a NATO peace enforcement mission in Bosnia.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: There are many different views on how we got to this point, and I have my own views on that, and I will discuss them at another time.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've already discussed them in the past on numerous occasions.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it is my hope that the Senate will now be able to concentrate its focus on the choices that are now before us.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: There are a few things about the current situation that we know, a few things that we believe based on reasonable judgments but not certainty, and many unknowns that are subject only to speculation at this point, even if it's reasonable speculation.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: The things we know are what I will try to deal with in this short and brief set of remarks today.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, we know that President Clinton has decided to commit U.S.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: military forces to this mission in Bosnia.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Second, we know that NATO has decided to commit the NATO alliance to this peace enforcement mission, and we know that all NATO nations that have military forces are participating.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Third, we know that several hundred American troops are now on the ground in Bosnia, and several thousand troops will be on the ground in Bosnia in the next few weeks.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Fourth, we can debate the constitutional power of the Commander-in-Chief as we have many times in the past and as we will again.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we can debate congressional responsibilities to declare war, but we all know that Congress has neither the ways nor means to prevent this deployment unless we cut off the funds.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: We know that.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Fifth, that we know that the Defense Appropriation Bill has passed, been signed, and the President, like his predecessors of both parties, will finance the operation out of operation and maintenance funds and then seek reimbursement of these funds next year in a supplemental appropriation.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sixth, we know that if Congress cuts off the funds at this point, it would require a majority in both houses to pass, and two-thirds vote in both the Senate and the House to override a certain veto.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: The Senate rejected this cutoff of funds decisively today when we voted on the first resolution, because I believe the senators concluded this would have an adverse effect on our own military forces, an adverse effect on our allies, an adverse effect on our leadership in NATO and the world, as well as an adverse effect on the parties on the ground in Bosnia.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: The president has decided on deployment.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: The NATO alliance has decided on deployment.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: The U.S.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: forces are on the way to Bosnia.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: What then is the congressional role in this important national security decision?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: President, I would like to talk at length today about some of the constitutional challenges we have in terms of determining the role of Congress in the post-Cold War era.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I will return to that subject.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: But today we face a world of reality.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: The cards have been dealt.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: The administration's action, starting with the president's commitment almost three years ago, and that was a public and international commitment, that United States forces would participate in a NATO force to implement a Bosnian peace agreement.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: That has put Congress in a situation in which a great deal is at stake, including United States reliability and leadership, but also including the peace agreement itself, the ending of the tragedy in Bosnia, as well as the future of NATO as an alliance.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: We also know that a cutoff of funds will not become law, but passage of this type of legislation, followed by a veto and a vote to override, if the House passed it, passes it, or if we passed it today, that would put our military forces in limbo in the middle of their deployment when they are most vulnerable.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: To me, this is unthinkable and unacceptable.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: We also know that the effect of such action would erode the value of U.S.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: commitments around the world and would create danger to U.S.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: military personnel in harm's way that are stationed in dangerous places around the world.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: That would certainly, that danger would increase to our military forces, whether it's Korean Peninsula, whether it's Europe, or whether it's in the Middle East, because the greatest thing they have behind them is United States credibility and the credibility of our own word.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: The bottom line, Mr.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: President, if today Congress found a way to prevent the president from going forward with his commitment, the damage to America and the increased danger to our troops in the world is certain.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's really no doubt about that.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: If we do give the president the green light and permit the mission to go forward in a carefully prescribed manner, the risks are considerable.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: But there is at least a chance of success if that term is narrowly and carefully defined.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I won't dwell on the definition of success in these remarks today, but before the week is out, I do want to give a much more detailed presentation, including what I think we should do in terms of the definition of success and including the risk of this operation as well as the opportunities of this operation.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: President, my main concern today, however, is the message the Senate sends to our military forces who are about to embark on this NATO mission to Bosnia.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to read in the record and place in the record a letter I received today.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was dated December the 12th.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is signed by Michael Davison, General U.S.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Army retired.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Many will remember General Davison for his service to our nation.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew Goodpaster, General U.S.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Army retired, who also served as the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, as well as the head of NATO forces.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Walter D.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Kerwin, General U.S.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Army retired, very distinguished career in the Army.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: William J.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: McCaffrey, Lieutenant General U.S.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Army, retired.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: William Y.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Smith, General U.S.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Air Force, retired.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Harry D.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: trained Admiral U.S.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Navy retired.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: To those of us who've been here very long in the Senate, this is a sterling list of outstanding military leaders that have served our nation with distinction.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what they say.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Dear Senator Nunn, as American military forces are being prepared for commitment in Bosnia, we believe it is essential that they go with a clear understanding that they are supported by the country, that is, by the whole American people, in their difficult and dangerous assignment.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Our military forces serving in Bosnia will be under American command, acting in concert with military forces from NATO and other nations that participate in the military implementation of the Dayton Peace Agreement.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: The mission statement and the NATO chain of command make it clear that the military forces are not to be drawn into mission creep nation building, but are to be used for tasks military in nature and will not be subjected to attempts at micromanagement from afar or to dual key aberrations.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Continuing the quote from these distinguished retired military officials, as you consider our country's involvement in Bosnia, we encourage you to send a message to our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines, wherever they may be, and to all others as well, that our country is giving them its full backing in their accomplishment of their assigned mission.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: We believe it is time to close ranks, support our troops in the field, and concentrate on helping them do their job in the best possible way.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then the letter is signed by these generals.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: President, I agree with every word in this letter.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're absolutely right on target.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is where we are today, and this is the kind of consideration the Senate must take into account today.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have plenty of time to debate how we got to this point.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: But today, I think we first and foremost need to consider the effect of what we do on not only the military forces themselves that are in the process of deploying, but on their families and on their mission.
• 38:58
  unknown: Mr.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: President, I urge the Senate today to support, or tomorrow, whenever we vote, to support the Dole McCain resolution.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: This resolution has been the subject of intense and constructive negotiations on a bipartisan basis with the Democratic Working Group headed by Senator Dashell, Senator Pell, and myself.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: The Dole McCain resolution, as now worded, has a key paragraph, which I believe conveys the kind of support our American troops and their families both need and deserve.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I quote that paragraph because I think it basically follows almost exactly what these distinguished retired military generals and admirals have said to us in the way of advice.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Quoting the paragraph in the Doe McCain resolution, the Congress unequivocally supports the men and women of our armed forces who are carrying out their mission in support of peace in Bosnia and Herzegovina with professional excellence, dedicated patriotism, and exemplary bravery, and believes that they must be given all necessary resources and support to carry out their mission and ensure their security.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: End quote.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: President, before we vote on the Dole McCain resolution, it's my understanding we will vote on the Hutchison Inhoff resolution.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: In my view, and I have both great respect for both senators who've sponsored this resolution.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're on the Armed Services Committee and they do a sterling job of representing their states and representing the American people on this committee.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the Hutchison Resolution does not provide what our troops need.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: It does not provide a sense that the Senate backs them in their mission.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: It tells our military forces in effect, we don't agree with your mission.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: What you're doing is not important to the United States.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not important enough for you to risk your lives.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, these are the people that are going to be risking their lives.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not important enough for you to risk your life, and neither is the NATO alliance and their mission.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Enforcing the peace agreement in Bosnia, and this is my paraphrasing of the Hutchison Inhoff message.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is not the words, and I don't want anyone to think I'm quoting the words.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is the effect of those words.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Enforcing the peace agreement in Bosnia is not something we agree with.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're going to be saying implicitly if we pass this resolution.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly we'll be saying it if we pass this resolution and don't pass the Dole McCain resolution.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're also saying implicitly the president is totally on his own without the backing of the Congress and the American people.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now we go forward and we say in the Hutchison in hoff resolution, again, in effect, these are my words.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: We will pay you, we will equip you, and we will wish you well.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: We don't agree with the mission, we don't think it's important enough for you to risk your life, but we are going to equip you, support you, and wish you well.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how are our military men and women and their families going to feel about undertaking this kind of mission?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Where they indeed, many of them, will be risking their lives.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: I hope not many will end up being injured.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: I hope none, but nevertheless, there is a very serious risk here.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: We know that.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: How are they going to feel if we send them off on this undertaking with this message from the United States Senate?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: President, I understand the temptation of my colleagues to vote for the Hutchison NHAF resolution.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: It gives senators the ability to say we were against this mission from the beginning, but we support our troops.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: President, this resolution, which will be voted on today or tomorrow, may be what some senators need, but it is not what our troops need at this juncture.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is entirely possible.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it doesn't happen, but it is entirely possible.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: The Hutchison Yenhoff resolution could pass, and the Dole resolution, Doe McCain resolution could fail.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: If this occurs, then our military, our American military, will have the worst of both worlds.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: We will be saying full speed ahead on a risky mission that we don't agree with, don't approve of, and that's that's that's what we're going to be saying.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Full speed ahead on a risky mission, with the clear knowledge that the mission is denounced at the outset by the United States Senate.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: I urge my colleagues to vote against the Hutchison NHOF resolution, and I urge them to vote for the Dole McCain resolution.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: I urge all of those who plan at this stage who are thinking about voting for the Hutchison Resolution to think very carefully.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is essential for the morale of our military forces that we send the clear message of the Dole McCain resolution, which says, in effect, we may not agree with the president on how we got to this point, but we believe the commitment of U.S.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: military forces to The Bosnia is important.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is important to prevent the spread of the conflict, to maintain United States leadership in NATO, to stop the tragic loss of life, to fulfill American commitments, and to preserve United States credibility.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: There is a different message, a fundamentally different message that will go forward if we pass the Hutchison Inhoff resolution.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: If we pass the Dole resolution, in spite of the clear concern expressed in that resolution about how we got to this point, there is no doubt that the Dole McCain resolution fully supports the American military forces and fully supports the mission that they are going to be addressing.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: May not agree with decisions along the way, but the mission support and the support of our forces is very clear.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to read again the paragraph in the Dole McCain resolution that makes this abundantly clear, and I want, I hope senators will concentrate on the difference between this language and what is in the Hutchison Enhoff language.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: The language in the Dole McCain resolution says, quote, the Congress unequivocally supports the men and women of our armed forces who are carrying out their mission in support of peace in Bosnia and Herzegovina with professional excellence, dedicated patriotism, and exemplary bravery, and believes they must be given all necessary resources and support to carry out their mission and to ensure their security.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: President, I know there are others waiting to speak, and I'm not going to go into a great deal of or more detail, but I do want to say, just in summarizing my prepared remarks, which I will not give today, but will give it a later point in this debate or thereafter, that the Congress of the United States needs to take a fundamental look at the way we are, the role we are playing or not playing in terms of these national security decisions.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Congress must understand, if we do not at this point, we must begin to, and I have understood it for a number of years, the War Powers Act does not work.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: The longer this outmoded and unworkable legislation remains on the books, the longer we will continue the illusion, the illusion that Congress is playing a meaningful role in the commitment of U.S.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: military forces to these types of missions.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: President Clinton will be viewed by most in Congress as assuming responsibility for the fate of the U.S.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: military mission in Bosnia.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's because this announcement by President Clinton was made in 1993 without consultation with the Congress or congressional leadership.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a similarity between this and the Persian Gulf, where the President of the United States, President Bush, then committed to the United States internationally without uh basically an approval of Congress.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: That is the parallel.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to face this situation over and over and over again where presidents commit internationally before they get approval here at home.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: We've got to address this.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is in our court.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's Congress's responsibility to make the correction.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: An awful lot of this comes from the illusion that the War Powers Act may someday miraculously work.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: It has never worked.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is not going to work.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is based on the fundamental flaw that assumes that congressional inaction can require the commander-in-chief to withdraw forces from abroad.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Congressional inaction will never, ever force a commander-in-chief to withdraw forces.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: The only way we can do that is with cutting off funds, and we need to recognize this.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: No president will or should allow U.S.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: forces to be withdrawn from a military mission because of simple congressional inaction.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think, Mr.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: President, it's time to repeal the War Powers Act, replace it with legislation that is realistic and workable.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: We must find a way to create regular, full, and comprehensive consultation between the President and the Congress before the President makes concrete commitments and before the United States troops are committed to harm's way.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: We do not have that mechanism now.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: We do not have the consultation taking place in a timely fashion, and that has been true both in Republican and in Democratic administrations.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope out of this we will again begin looking at the War Powers Resolution, the War Powers Act, and begin to make changes to correct it.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: I see the Senator from Delaware is on the floor.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: He and I and Senator Byrd, as well as Senator Warner and several Republicans several years ago, sponsored a revision of the War Powers Act.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that our colleagues will begin to think along those lines because it is leading us down the primrose path of having a law on the books that supposedly involves Congress in these kind of decisions when by the time Congress gets involved, the international commitment has already been made and the choices are regrettably limited.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: President, I will yield the floor and ask unanimous consent that my entire statement be placed in record.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Without objection.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: And there are risks both ways.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: I've concluded that the risks of not acting, not joining the NATO effort, are greater than the risks of acting with our NATO allies, and I will therefore support the Dole resolution.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_03: The risks of acting are clear, and that's the risks of casualties, probably from mines, from accidents on the road, possibly from snipers.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: But the risks are real, and I think the American public should be fully aware of what those risks are.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: And as hard as we have tried to reduce those risks, and the joint chiefs and the commanders have made an extraordinary effort to reduce those risks in every way possible through training and through equipment.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: And in other ways, those risks are there and they are real.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: But the risks of not acting to join our NATO allies, the risks of not participating with NATO are also very real, and in my judgment, are greater than the risks of joining.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: The risks of not acting, the risks of not participating with NATO include the risks of a peace agreement falling apart because of NATO's absence.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: That in turn would lead or could lead to a wider and more dangerous war with continued killing and ethnic cleansing and atrocities and rape and civilian refugees and humanitarian catastrophe in Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, in Serbia, but also possibly in Kosovo, in Albania, in Macedonia, and even possibly in Greece and Turkey and the effects could be felt beyond the region as well.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: Of great importance here.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: And this has been something which I don't believe has been given enough attention.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: Russia is willing to participate with the United States and our NATO allies in peace implementation in Bosnia.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, Russia is willing to place their troops in Bosnia directly under an American commander.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: That would be historic cooperation with long-term benefit for European security and for world security.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: But if this agreement falls apart, because we do not participate with NATO, and therefore NATO will not carry out this operation, if this agreement falls apart in the war widen, NATO would be weakened and fractured, and the United States and Russia could be pulled to opposite sides in a Europe newly divided.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: Hardliners in Russia would balk at working with the United States and would gain political points domestically in elections which are upcoming.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: So that in addition to the region becoming inflamed again, with a widened war likely in that region and dragging us in potentially to a widened war in Europe, just as we have been dragged in twice in this century, we could see a Russia more threatening to Europe and to U.S.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: interests precisely when NATO is fractured and less able to deal with that newly threatened Russia, threatening Russia.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: So the failure to participate here could well sink our efforts to improve the U.S.-Russia relationship, to build strong democracies in Europe, to expand NATO, and to integrate Russia into permanent European security arrangements.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: When President Clinton wrote to the Speaker of the House last month, he highlighted the costs of not trying to help secure the peace efforts of the warring parties.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_03: And this is what he said.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: He said, quote, unquestionably, there are costs and risks to all involved in making peace.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_03: Peace is the less risky alternative, but there will be no peace without America's engagement.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_03: Madam President, I've asked a lot of questions about this mission over the last few weeks.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_03: As a member of the Armed Services Committee, first question.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_03: Are there important U.S.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: interests at stake?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: I believe the answer is yes.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: The United States has an interest in helping the parties establish peace and stability in Europe.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: We have an interest in preventing the war from spreading, which again could fracture the NATO alliance, and which could put Russia and the United States on opposite sides of a renewed and wider war.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: Second, the second question that I ask: is the mission clear?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: Is it limited and achievable?
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_03: The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has testified that it is, and the military commanders agree.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_03: The NATO mission has three primary military objectives: maintaining the existing ceasefire, physically separating the warring parties, and overseeing the division of territory agreed to by the leaders in Dayton.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_03: Our military leaders have been clear about what our troops will not do, so that there will not be any mission creep.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: They will not oversee election security.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: They will not conduct humanitarian relief missions.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: They will not help civilians relocate or act as local police.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_03: Now there's a fine line between actually performing those tests, those tasks, which they will not do, and as the UN agencies and other private organizations will attempt to do, and what we will attempt to do, what NATO will attempt to do, which is helping to create a secure environment while they're there so that those other tasks can be accomplished.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: NATO and U.S.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: military leaders say that they have sufficient guidance to make the judgment about that line.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: Our troops will not be directly responsible for disarming the Bosnian Serbs or equipping the Bosnian government to achieve an equilibrium of forces on the ground.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: And while both of those missions are desirable, it is appropriate for the NATO force to be able to maintain its even-handedness in dealing with all of the parties and therefore to leave those tasks to separate mechanisms.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: The third question I ask: has the risks to our troops been minimized?
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_03: Bosnia, even after this agreement, is a very dangerous environment.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been particularly concerned, as have many of us, about the threat posed by landmines, which some have estimated to number six million.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_03: General Shali Kashvili has testified last week that the troops have received extra training before deploying to the theater, specifically against known hazards such as landmines and snipers.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: They will be well armed, equipped with robust rules of engagement that they need to protect themselves, and local commanders will have the authority that they need to make decisions about using force without any cumbersome dual key arrangements.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: Secretary Perry testified that they have the authorization to use deadly force if necessary, and National Security Advisor Tony Lake warned that if anybody fools with our forces, they'll get hit, they'll get hit immediately, they'll get very hard, and we would expect that any other challengers' threats to our forces would be intimidating.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: In addition, Madam President, there is a clear line of command with U.S.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: commanders at the top.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: General Shali Kashvili is testifying that he believes the risk of physical danger to be small, and that he would anticipate more casualties from accidents than from hostile action.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: The fourth question that I ask: are there clearly defined conditions under which U.S.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: forces will not go into Bosnia?
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_03: And the answer is yes.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: We have received repeated testimony that NATO will not fight its way in.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_03: The parties have initialed an agreement.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_03: They're scheduled to sign it in Paris tomorrow.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: Vanguard NATO units are in Bosnia.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_03: But we must see the evidence of compliance with this agreement before full deployment.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, General Shali Kashvili has testified we're not going in.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: We're not going to fight our way in.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: We're going there to help implement a peace agreement which the parties want.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_03: The fifth question: is there a clear exit strategy?
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_03: Administration officials are clear that the deployment of U.S.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: forces with NATO will last approximately one year.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: And they've said that most of the military tasks that the NATO forces charge with achieving may be achievable in less than 12 months.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: There are two key issues here.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: One is whether an effective equilibrium of forces can be achieved between the parties in such a way that the Bosnians can defend themselves when the NATO forces leave.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: There is still a lot of doubt about this.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_03: The goal is not part of the military mission itself.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: It is a separate commitment from the United States to all of the parties, which all of the parties were told have accepted.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_03: Now I remain skeptical, as indeed do some of the officials who testified before us, that an arms control agreement, as outlined in the Dayton Agreement, can by itself effectively achieve that equilibrium.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: Secretary Perry says that he believes that the U.S.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_03: commitment to assure success of this effort to re-arm and train the Bosnians if the armed control effort fails will actually help that arms control effort succeed.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_03: But we will need to watch closely to see if the parties abide by their obligations to reduce armaments, working with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: For instance, they've agreed not to import any weapons for 90 days and any heavy weapons for 180 days.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_03: If they do not abide by these aspects of the agreement, the U.S.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: is prepared to assure that arms and training will be provided to the Bosnian government.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: This must be premised, of course, on the most reliable possible assessment of all sides' current military capabilities and an assessment of what constitutes an effective equilibrium, and that is defensible territory with sufficient armaments.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: If not, if that premise is not carried out, as Secretary Perry testified, the United States can and will need to try to accelerate the arming effort during the 12-month NATO deployment period.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_03: The second key issue on exiting is whether a secure environment can continue to exist after the NATO force leaves.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: Annex 11 to the General Framework Agreement signed by the parties establishes an international police task force assistance program to monitor, observe, inspect, advise, and train law enforcement agencies to improve public and state security.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: But that may not be enough.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_03: In addition to the International Police Task Force, full and lasting implementation by the parties of all aspects of the peace agreement may require the presence of a smaller residual military force in the former Yugoslavia for longer than one year planned by or planned for the NATO implementation force, and any such residual force should be comprised primarily of armed forces from European nations without U.S.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_03: armed forces.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: I believe there should be planning underway now for a European residual force.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: The President should be encouraging European nations now to initiate contingency planning for such a force that does not include U.S.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_03: armed forces to maintain a secure environment for implementation of the peace agreement after the NATO forces leave.
• 1:02:48
  unknown: Mr.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: President, the there's no need to wring our hands in this body about not having a choice.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_03: Some say that we have no choice, that the decision's been made.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we have three choices, at least.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_03: Choice one is to say no fund for these troops.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_03: That was the choice that we voted against.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_03: But that was a choice.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_03: That was a constitutional capability that we had if we decided to exercise it to say that we're going to use the power of the purse so that these troops would not go to Bosnia.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_03: By an overwhelming vote, we decided not to use the power of the purse, not to use that capability that this Congress has under the Constitution to restrict funding in order to prevent troops from going to Bosnia.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_03: But it was a choice.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_03: We were not in a position where we were prevented from exercising that constitutional option should we choose to exercise.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_03: We had a second choice.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_03: We can express an opinion, which is in opposition to this mission.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: Short of using the power of the purse, but nonetheless an expression of opinion.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: That is what the Hutcheson resolution does.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it seems to me, however, that that would be a terrible mistake and would sap the morale of our truth terribly.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_03: To tell our truth that we're going to support you, we're all for you, is part of the Hutchison resolution does.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_03: To say that the Congress supports military personnel who may be ordered into Bosnia, but we oppose the decision, is telling those troops who are put in a position of danger, that we don't support this mission.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if anything will undermine morale of truce, it would seem to me it would be saying that to them.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_03: No matter how much we say in one paragraph of the resolution, that we're behind the truth.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_03: You can say that all you want.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: You can proclaim that all you want in one paragraph.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_03: But it runs exactly counter to that and undermines that.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_03: To say in another paragraph, you're being sent on a mission which is wrong.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_03: If that mission is wrong, then the power of the purse should be used to prevent it.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's one way or the other.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_03: We chose not to exercise it.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we made the right decision.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: But we had that choice under the Constitution.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_03: Having chosen to not to exercise a power.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_03: That this Congress had to prevent the troops from going to Bosnia, to being put in a position of danger.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_03: It seems to me now it is totally wrong for us to tell those truths that we're now for you, but your mission is a mistake.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: If that mission is a mistake, then we should have voted not to allow it.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: We cannot have it both ways, and expect our troops, who are being put in harm's way, to do anything except react in wonderment and amazement that a Congress could decide not to restrict the funds, and then to say in the same resolution, we're behind our troops, although the mission is wrong.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I hope we will defeat the Hutchison resolution and adopt the third resolution which will be voted on, the Dole McCain resolution, which in a qualified way, in a very careful way, supports the continuation of this mission.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_03: President, it comes down to this.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: We have vital security interests in trying to help prevent a war in Europe from resuming and spreading into a wider regional war, which would probably fracture NATO.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_03: Could very well pit NATO ally against NATO ally.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: We have an interest in reducing the chance of Europe becoming divided again with Russia on the other side from most of Europe, with a Russia that would be likely, if this peace agreement failed, to then grow as a threat to the United States and to our allies.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: If this peace agreement falls apart internally, we would be playing into the hands of the most extreme nationalists in Russia and furthering their election ambitions next year.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_03: If this agreement succeeds, Russian troops, for the first time, will be under American command.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_03: An extraordinary development in history and will be a greater part of a European security solution instead of being part of the problem as they have for so many decades.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_03: U.S.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_03: involvement in this NATO force is essential.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_03: If the peace agreement of the parties has any chance of being implemented, this is a chance, a chance that only the parties can take advantage of.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_03: But we would also be giving the parties a chance to end the slaughter and the ethnic cleansing and the use of rape as a weapon.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_03: And for all of these reasons.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_03: And having answered the questions which I put to myself in good conscience over the last few weeks, I have concluded that we should participate in the NATO force, and I hope that the Dole McCain resolution is adopted.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I thank the chair and I yield the floor, and I ask that the balance of my statement be inserted in the record.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_03: Without objection, the balance of the statement be uh inserted in the record.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_03: According to the case, welcome back to the next one.