Latest / UK Column Radio / JFK’s Assassination and the Collapse of the American Empire | Jerm Warfare

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JFK’s Assassination and the Collapse of the American Empire | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This is Jim wolfare the Battle
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of Ideas. Loved chatting to you about Michael Jackson and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: now we're gonna chat about JFK. What's interesting here is
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: there is a segue, isn't there there's a link?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, and it's actually I think Michael Jackson is
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: the one that kind of nurtured my interest in JFK
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: as a child because he referenced him in multiple songs
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and videos, and he actually wrote a song about the
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: character assassination of JFK. And so I used to listen
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: to that song, you know, over and over and over,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: and so I think it sort of seeped into my
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: subconscious the idea that JFK was character assassinated. And so,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: you know, when I became an adult later in my life,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: much later in my life, I decided to kind of
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: look into JFK because I'd always been kind of confused
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: as a child about him because I you know, I
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: know Michael Jackson loved him, and I was a big
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: mj fan as a kid, so it was kind of like,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: you know, you're a fan of whoever they're a fan of,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: and so you know, I always kind of had a
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: good intuition about him, but there we was all so
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: many negative like gossip stories about him in the eighties
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: and nineties about you know, he was trying to kill Castro,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: he stole the election with the mob. You know, he
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: was just a womanizer and very sort of superficial and
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: self absorbed, and so I didn't really know what to
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: think of him. And then when I grew up older
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: and I sort of became more disillusioned with our political leadership,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: particularly when the Iraq War happened. I think that was
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: the first time my ever like paid attention to politics
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: or sort of woke up because they kept saying, you know,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: weapons of mass destruction on TV all day long, and
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I was just kind of like, it just felt like
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: someone was making a sales pitch. It felt very weird
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: to me. And so, you know, in two thousand and
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: eight was the first time I picked up a book
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: about JFK. And I would say between two thousand and
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: eight and twenty twenty, I would read a book here
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: and there about him. But I also became a big
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: follower of Robert Kennedy Junior because of you know, medical freedom.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: It was one of my biggest issues and he you know,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: he's very active in that movement, and he would always
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: bring up his uncle and during his podcasts and stuff.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: So at one point I was like, Oh, I really
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: want to look into this JFK thing, because all the
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: people I admire seemed to admire him. So I was like,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: let me look into it. And I just fell down
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: deep down the rabbit hole after that, And I had
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: no idea. Really, I didn't know much about his presidency,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and so I kind of I had no intention of
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: writing a book about it, and none whatsoever. I just
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: was doing it for my own knowledge and learning. And
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I just kind of became so fascinated by how much
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: changed after he was assassinated and just how much he
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: was working on behalf of not just the American people,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: but really people globally, and I would, you know, on
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: behalf of the average person, not on behalf of let's say,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: the oligarchy or whatnot. And I was just so sort
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: of struck by how much was lost when he was assassinated,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: and so I really wanted to write a book about
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: that to really explain to people, Like the subtitle of
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: my book is what the world lost when it lost
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: John F. Kennedy, and I felt like no one had
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: really asked or answered that question, which seems to me
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: like the first question you should ask an answer if
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: there's a major assassination that occurs, is well, why does
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: it matter? What changed?
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean the title of you one book. So
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: there's there's two JFK books, if I'm correct, that you've written,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: and the one is called The Lost America America's President,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: that's what it's in a very profound statement.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's the last one who really worked on
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: behalf of the American people. Like he said, it's the
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: president's job to protect the public interest against all the
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: narrow private interests that operate in our society. And I
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: feel like he was the last president that functioned with
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: that goal in mind, to really protect the public interests
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: against private, narrow interests. And that's why I titled in
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: America's Last President. And I think he is, because I
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: think every president since has worked for various special interests
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: and not really on behalf of the American people.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, you certainly one of the most famous US presidents.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not an American, and I can tell you right
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: now that JFK is if you had to ask me
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: to name American presidents, I think his name would be first.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think he had the highest approval rating of
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: any presidents in US history since they started doing ratings,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: which I think was maybe in the nineteen twenties or
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirties. So he had an average approval rating over
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: set seventy percent. I think the last president to even
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: surpass an average approval rating of fifty percent was Bill Clinton.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: So in America, he was far more popular than any
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: of our other modern day presidents, which I think says
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: a lot in and of itself is you know, people approved.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Of that he was doing to be faith though Donald
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Trump has got an approval rating of one thousand and five.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump has his own math.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, but now what is your conclusion? Okay, so we'll
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: dive into the book in the moment, But what is
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: what's the the zoomed out argument here?
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: So? Yeah, so I think when you look at all
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: his policy, So if you look at foreign policy, we
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: can sort of start with that. You know, it changed
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: drastically in Vietnam and Indonesia, in Africa and Latin America,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: and I would say the most in the Middle East,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: but all of these, Yeah, Israel, Palestine, all of these,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: the policies changed drastically, and some of them, you know,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: millions and millions of people died because of the assassination.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: You had millions of deaths in Vietnam. You had something
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: between half a million and a million deaths in Indonesia.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: It wasn't right away, but there was a later genocide
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: in the Congo several decades later that probably would not
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: have happened because Kennedy was working really hard to stabilize
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: the Congo during his presidency. You have the border crisis
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: right now, which Kennedy was really trying hard to help
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the Latin American countries in the South American countries sort
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: of grow their economies and not be so dependent on
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: a primary export, so you wouldn't have a border crisis
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: of you know, people trying to come to America if
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: they had a good life in their countries. And then
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: of course when you get to the Middle East, you know,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: he supported Palestinian right of return, He supported having the
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: UN troops on the border, so there couldn't have been
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: a nineteen sixty seven war with the UN troops on
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: the border. He had a very good relationship with Naser,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: which again, there couldn't have been a nineteen sixty seven
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: war with Kennedy's good relationship with Naser. He tried to
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: register the American Zionist Council, which is sort of the
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: precursor to APAK, as a foreign agent. So that's kind
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: of the main lobby and support of Israel in America,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: which you know, buys off Congressman all the time and senators,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: and so that hasn't made impact. And then the other
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: thing is he tried to stop Israel from getting nuclear weapons.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: And I think what's really important to understand there is
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of evidence that they took their materials
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: from the US from a plant called in Pennsylvania called Numec.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: So JFK kept asking and asking and asking for inspections,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: and they kept delaying him, delaying him, delaying him. Finally
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: like JK was fed up. He's like, I want inspections
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: in the summer of sixty three, I don't want to
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: hear any more excuses. And at that point the Israeli
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Prime Minister resigned, and the resignation kind of bought Israel sometime,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: so they were able to delay JFK to the end
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: of the year, but of course he was assassinated before then,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: and so there were never proper inspections of Demona. But
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's a really important question to ask is
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: if JFK had gotten his inspections of Demona at the
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: end of the year, which he was promised. And it's
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: important to understand that he was promised inspections before their
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: reactor went critical. So LBJ did some very cursory inspections,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: but it was after the reactor went critical. It wasn't
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: at all the inspections that JFK demanded, But there were
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: memos where they were wondering where's the uranium coming from?
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: And so had he done those inspections, would he have
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: figured that out? And what would that mean? If he
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: was already threatening to cut support to Israel over their
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: refusal for inspections and over their building nuclear weapons, you know,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: what would he have done if he found out, which
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I think he would have, that they were taking materials
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: from the US. And obviously, I think if that had happened,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Israel would not have the power it has today. They
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: would not have the power they have today over Americans,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: nor would they have the power they have today over
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: the Palestinians. So I think if you look at everything
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: that's happened in the Middle East the last sixty years,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it would have gone on a
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: completely different trajectory had JFK not been assassinated. In addition
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: to you know, Vietnam, Indonesia, Congo, all these other regions
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: All right, so your first book is asking who was
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: JFK and what was he trying to do? And then
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: your second book is asking who basically killed him and why.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the second book, it doesn't argue any thesis.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And I wrote it sort of one because I was
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: learning as I was writing it, and two because I
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: thought that was most fair to JFK. You know, one
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: of my pet peeves is when people say, oh, no
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: way was this party involved in the assassination, or no
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: way was that person involved. And I feel like that
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: is a great disservice to JFK. I feel like if
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: someone genuinely cares about JFK, they should be willing to
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: look at all potential suspects and all angles and not
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: try to fit the assa fascination into a preconceived mold.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: And so I kind of started with, here's all the
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: entities that benefited from the assassination, which I said were
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: like the anti communists, the pro war people, you know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: the CIA, the Israeli Zionist interests, and then powerful financial
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: interest so all of those entities. And there's a lot
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: of overlap between those entities because one character, you know,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: can fit into all five of those interests, right. So,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: but those are the high level interests that benefited from
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: the crime. And then I just kind of went through
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: the crime and chronological order, and I tried to stick
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: to those things that are indisputable, because I feel like
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: too often people go on these random he said, she said,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: tangents without any evidence that has anything to do with
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: the assassination. But there's certain things that are indisputable, like
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: we know who ran the host committee, we know the questionable,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: questionable decisions that the host committee made to you know
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: that contributed to the assassination. We know a little bit
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: or someone about the fight over the luncheon site, because obviously,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: because what happened is so a lot of the books
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: will kind of show how Oswald was placed into the
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Texas school book depository, but they rarely get into the
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: fact that the luncheon site wasn't even known when Oswald
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: got his job at the TSBD, so obviously whoever's driving
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the decision of the luncheon site. If you think there
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: was a conspiracy to murder JFK, you have to believe
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: that those people were in on the conspiracy or manipulated
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: in some way by people who were involved in the conspiracy.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Otherwise you can't argue there was a conspiracy, right, and
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: yet nobody looks at those aspects, and those are the
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: more indisputable aspects where you don't have to rely on
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: he said, She said so much, and you know things
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: like who is Ruby's cover guy that's to the warrant commission.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: You know, that's indisputable, and so I tried to stick
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: to those things rather than that, he said, she said stuff,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: because that can take you down endless rabbit holes. That
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: may or may.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I think even Oswald's attorney, what does his name, Mark Glene,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I think even he said that we need to actually
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: look at what's going on here.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, exactly. I think we need to stick to
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: the basic facts, because you know, in order to commit
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: this kind of crime, you need to control basic things like,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: for example, they captured audio video footage of Oswald and
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: New Orleans, and they in August, and then they brought
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: that out in November, and Oswald was parading as a
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: pro communists. I believe he was some sort of like
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: agent provocateur where he was, you know, trying to provoke people,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: and so he was going out into the streets as
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: a pro communist and they captured audio and video footage
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: of that. That was captured by the NBC station in
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: New Orleans, which was run by the Stearns, and then
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: that was brought out in November to say, you know,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: no need to investigate. We've got the official story here.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: We've got video and audio of Oswald being a communist
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: back in New Orleans in August. You know, case closed.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: So people, and that's an indisputable fact. So people should ask, well,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: who are the stars, right like, because obviously whoever plotted
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: this trusted the stern is to capture this footage of
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: a nobody and hold on to it for three months
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: and you know, not discarded or whatnot. And so those
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: are the sort of the basic things that I think
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: get ignored a lot that I tried to focus on
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: in my book, because you have to control those things
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: you have to control you know, you have to control
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: whoever captures the video and audio footage. You have to
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: control the lunch in site, you know, the motorcade route,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: like these sort of basic things if you want to
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: try to pull this assassination off.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just quickly cover some basic ground here.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: What did JFK stand for?
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: He wanted to see a world of diversity, but a
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: unified world. So he was a huge supporter of nationalism,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: like Third world nationalism. He thought every country should make
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: its own decisions. He did not believe that the US
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: should dictate policy in any way. Because he has an
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Irish background, and his life was also saved by Indigenous Islanders.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: So his boat was attacked during World War two and
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: he came very close to death, and it was two
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Indigenous Islanders who saved his life, so I think. And
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: he also was sick a lot when he was younger,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: so he was wasting away a lot. At times. He
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: looked like he was anorextic. He came close to death
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: multiple times. So I think because of these life experiences,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: you know, being Irish, having his life saved by Indigenous Islanders,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: you know, just having his life threatened by various illnesses
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: made him have a real empathy, I think for just
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: the common person around the globe, and so he was
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: very supportive of the independence movements. People label him as
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: a cold warrior, but to me, he was more of
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: an anti colonialist. And even if you listen to him
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: speak about the Soviet Union, he's speaking about them as
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: a colonial power. And he would say many times in
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties, like, we can't criticize the Soviet Union
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: unless we also criticize European colonialism, because otherwise we look
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: like hypocrites to the world. So he was very critical
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: of both Soviet colonialism and European colonialism. So he was
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: very much in supportive of independence movements, but at the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: same time he wanted unity. So he was very supportive
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: of like the United Nations, you know, and the troops
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: that they sent to the Congo, the troops that they
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: sent to the cause of border he was He just
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: felt like the United Nations was a tool to give
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: smaller countries a lot more say on the world stage,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: and so he was he was not an isolationist. He
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: was definitely not an isolationist, but he wanted countries to
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: be independent but working together in a sort of peaceful,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: cooperative way. I would say it was a sort of
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: world vision.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: He was also, I suppose an anti imperialist. Yes, do
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: you bid Johnsow what his position was on my country,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: South Africa, because in the when he was president, we
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: were in the middle of apartheid.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was very critical of South Africa. Now, he
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: did not want to cut them off from the UN
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: or anything like that, because he felt that would just
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: encourage them to be more militant. But he did put
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I think some embargoes on them. I can't remember the details.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I know South Africa was very concerned about JFK because
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: he actually he aid to Africa as a whole increased
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: something like four or five fold during his presidency, and
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: he had on average one African head of state come
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: visit the White House once per month, so I think
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: he had He was president for thirty three months and
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: he had something like maybe thirty African leaders you know,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: come to the White House, so that's almost one a month.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: He did not invite South Africa to the White House
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: because of their apartheid policies. So he was opposed to
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: the apartheid policies, but he wanted to sort of, I think,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: work more with the carrot approach than the stick approach
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: to try to get them to replace their apartheid.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: He also had a non Cold war foreign policy, didn't need.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people will try to label him as a Cold warrior,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: but I don't think he ever really was. Like I said,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: his opposition to communism was more centered around his general
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: opposition to colonialism. So he definitely was not a fan
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: of the communist system. There's no doubt about that that
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: he didn't think it was the kind of economic system
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: that could sort of raise people out of poverty. He
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: felt a free market system would do a better job
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: of uplifting people's lives. So in that sense, yes, you
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: could call him a Cold warrior, but he did not
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: want to. He was not in support of sending American
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: combat troops to Vietnam. He did send advisors to Vietnam,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: you know. But he was pushed multiple times during his
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: presidency to invade Cuba, both during the Bay of Pigs
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: and during the Cuban Missile crisis, and he refused, and
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: he was willing to work with neutralist leaders. So he
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: was very a lot of the Cold warriors. Only wanted
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: to support leaders that were supportive of America, but he
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: was willing to support any leader that was neutral. Like
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: so he was fine if they were neutral. Between the
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: United States and the.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Soviet Union, let's talk about the CIA.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: What happened is the Bay of Pigs. He was sort
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: of coln during the Bay of.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Pigs, which, by the way, was sorry, but that was
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: also a bit of a disaster for the US.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, absolutely, So that was sort of planned under Eisenhower.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: And so when Kennedy became president, he was informed of
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: this mission that was in progress, and they had these
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: fourteen hundred exiles in Guatemala and they had to leave Guatemala,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: so they either could go to Cuba, which is what
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: they were promised, or they'd have to bring them back
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: to the States. So doing nothing was not an option
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: for Kennedy. He had to do something with those exiles
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: because they had to leave Guatemala. And everyone told him,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: you know, let's just drop him off on the island.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: All the islanders will support them. They'll easily escape into
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: the hills, and you know, Castro will be taken down
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: and I'll will be great. And obviously it didn't go
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: like that. It was a complete disaster. These men got
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: captured right away by Castro. You know, none of the
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Islanders supported them, and so Kennedy felt absolutely horrid about that,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Like that was a big weight on him until he
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: got those men out of prison like a year and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: a half later. But he also realized just how manipulated
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: he had been, because there's a lot of indication today
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: that the CIA and the Department of Defense knew that
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: this Bay of Pigs was going to fail without military support,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: and Kennedy had told him he was not going to
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: give military support beforehand, but they kind of believed, like, well,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: once it messes up, he won't have a choice. He
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: won't want to look bad in front the public. He'll
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: come on board then. But he stuck to his guns
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: and he said, no, I'm not, I'm not you know,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: bringing the US military into this. And he took full
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: blame for the Bay of Pigs, like he you know,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: he said, victory has one hundred fathers and defeat as
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: an orphan, and you know, he said, I'm the responsible
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: officer and the government is one hundred percent my fault
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: this disaster. And it's funny because his approval rating actually
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: went way up, and I think it's because people were
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: so impressed with the fact that he took the full
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: blame for the disaster. But it absolutely was a disaster,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: and it absolutely was the opposite of the image that
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: JFK wanted to portray, because it gave the image of
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: an imperialist country, which is not the image he wanted
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: to give to the outside world at all.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: JFK also fired the CI director, if memory.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Says yes, and the two people under him. So he
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: fired Dulls, he fired Bissel, and he fired Kebel. So
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: that's the top three men at the CIA. So they
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: were all fired in nineteen sixty one, not long after
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: the Bay of Pigs.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: What could possibly go wrong if you're going to fire
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the head of the CIA.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean that's you know, it's a it's
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: a big move. I mean, Dulles was older, you know,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: he was near a retirement age. But nevertheless, it clearly
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think he left of his own choice. You know,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: he was pushed out, and so that's you know, that's
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: going to anger a lot of people for sure.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Which leads me then to ask the question, was the
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: CIA involved in his assassination?
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I don't take a position on the assassination. I don't
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: think the CIA as an institution was because John mccoone
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: at the time was the head of the CIA and
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: he was working with JFK obviously, but I think there's
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of evidence that elements of the CIA, particularly
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: James Jesus Angleton, were involved in the assassination. I don't
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: see much evidence for Dulls himself being involved in the assassination.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean he wasn't. He may have been, but
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: in terms of like solid evidence, I don't think there's
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: too much that links Dolls to the assassination. But certainly Angleton,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: who was head of counter Intelligence, who many people accuse
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: of running a CIA within the CIA, There's no doubt
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: he monitored Oswald's files, and he had Oswald's files on
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: his desk, you know, in November nineteen sixty three. So
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of people suspect Angleton of sort of creating
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the Oswald legend or the Oswald story because Oswald was
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: sent or an imposter. There's a lot of debate whether
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: it was Oswald or not was sent to Mexico City
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: to link him to Valerie Costapov, who was involved with
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: KGB assassinations, and so that was sort of planted into
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Oswald's files. So after the assassination, LBJ kind of ran
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: with the story that Angleton had set up and sort
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: of scared everyone into participating in a cover up because
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: he said, if we investigate this, then everyone's going to
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: we're going to see that Oswald is linked to KGB
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: assassinations and it's going to lead to World War three
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: and so forty million Americans are going to die. And
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: so he kind of bullied everyone into participating in the
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: cover up, saying, we can't properly investigate this because it
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: might lead to World War three. And it seems like
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Angleton is the one that set the stage for all
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: of that because he's the one that had control over
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Oswald's files. So I don't think there's any doubt that
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: well I shouldn't say any doubt, but it almost certainly
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Angleton had to have been involved in the plot, and
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: he's pretty high up at the CIA.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: But the Warren Commission was a complete miss.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, they didn't investigate it properly at all. And
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Dalles did run the Warren Commission. So there's absolutely no
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: doubt that he was involved in the cover up, and
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: that the CIA is as a whole, as an institution,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: I would say, was involved in the cover up, as
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: was the FBI. So there's no doubt that there was
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: an institutional cover up. I think that's very much on
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: the record. Yeah, and so the Warren Commission again because
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: LBJ sort of partly because LBJ scared everyone into doing
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: the cover up, and I think partly, you know, I
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: think Dalls is even on record as saying something like
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: he wanted to protect the CIA because I think the
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: use of Oswald as a patsy and even as Ruby,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: who has a lot of shady connections killing Oswald, those
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: are characters you don't want to investigate because you could compromise,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: you know, FBI, the CIA and whatnot. And so these institutions,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: whether or not the institutions themselves were involved in the assassination,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: they would have a huge motive to cover up the
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: assassination because the patsy points back at them.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Trump released those files. Do they meta at all?
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I think there's some useful information in them. I don't know,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: like I don't think there's going to be a smoking
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: gun or anything like that. And the other thing about
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: the files is you have to look at them in context. Like,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: for example, I know one of the best files that's
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: been released is when Garrison, Jim Garrison, was prosecuting Clay
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Shaw for the murder of JFK. Ray Roca, who was
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: like an assistant to James Angleton. You know, there's a
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: memo where he says, if we don't interfere in Garrison's investigation,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: in Garrison's trial, Garrison is going to get a conviction.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: So here we have someone working for Angleton on the
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: record saying that he believes Garrison will be able to
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: success fully convict Clay Shaw of the murder of JFK.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: So to me, that's very damning. But that's not something
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: the average person will understand because you have to understand
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: who's Garrison, Whose Shaw, Who's Angleton? You know what I mean.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: So the files make sense if you've studied the case,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: but they're not going to make sense to a lay person.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: So there may be some useful nuggets of information like
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: that in the files that are still classified, but I
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: don't think there's going to there's not going to be
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: like one line that says, you know, this is who
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: did it? And nothing like that. I don't think.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Do you remember when Tucker Callson when you'll still let
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Fox did that segment on JFK's assassination, and then Ben
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Shapiro made that comment saying it doesn't matter who assassinated JFK.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it absolutely matters. Like, forget even the policies.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Forget that so many policies change, and forget that we're
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: still living with the reverberations of those policy changes. The
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: fact that a US president had his head blown off
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: in broad daylight, and not just any president, but the
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: president with the highest approval rating in US history, that
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: is going to matter because if you don't solve that crime,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: then you don't live in a genuine democracy because then
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: anybody you vote for, that vote can be vetoed by
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: powerful forces or powerful interests. So it absolutely does matter.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: But we don't know exactly who assassinated him.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think we have proof. But I think
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: what we do know is we know the policies that changed,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: and we can still demand that jfkse policies be implemented.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: For example, like if we go back to Israel, we
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: know he wanted inspections of Demona, and we know, he
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: wanted the lobby registered as a foreign agent. Those two
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: things can still be easily done, Like, if we really
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: want to honor JFK, we can demand inspections of Demona,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: and we can demand that APEC register as a foreign agent.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: We can undo the assassination, but we can re implement
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: his policies, which which is sort of so bizarre to
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: me that people don't focus on that at all. They're
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: so focused on the assassination and on the technicalities when
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: it's like the best way to honor JFK is to
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: implement his actual policies that can still be implemented.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: But I mean genuine if you look at the power
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: of APEC and the Israeli lobby, do you really think
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: that that's possible anytime soon?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Not realistically no, But in theory and theory Donald Trump
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: can go to the Department of Justice and ask them
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: to register APECK as a foreign agent. And theory Donald
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Trump can go to Israel and say, we're cutting off
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: all funding and support until we can inspect Demona, and
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: we're doing this to honor JFK, who was you know, assassinated,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: and that's still appending, you know, investigation, So we don't know.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: We can't prove who killed him, but we can prove
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: what policies changed.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: But we also know that Donald Trump doesn't lack theories.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Donald Trump is not going to do that as
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: any other president, but I'm saying they could. So I
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: feel like, you know, if people really want to honor JFK,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: they should demand that his policy still be implemented, you know,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: those that were reversed, and that still can be Obviously,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: we can't undo Vietnam unfortunately. You know, we can't undo
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: what happened in Indonesia. We can't undo what happened in
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: the Congo, but we can you know, be supportive of
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: those regions, and we can be supportive, you know, we
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: can act not like an imperialist nation. We can't do that.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: If JFK. I mean, this is obviously just a thought experiment.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: But let's just pretend for a moment that he was
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: able to become president after Trump, What do you think
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: he would do?
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Oh goodness today, that's a really good question. Well, one
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: is he would work on behalf of the American people,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: because I think the American people have been like screwed
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: in the last sixty years. Like there's been very little
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: supportive domestic policy. Like JFK increased social Security benefits. He
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: lowered the minimum age for Social Security, and so today
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: like social Security is under threat, like we might lose
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: social Security. You know. JFK pushed hard for Medicare, He
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: increased unemployment benefits. He did a lot to help the
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: US economy. You know, he did various programs like regional
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: you know, area redevelopment programs, manpower training programs. You know,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: he did a tax cut. So it's he increased all
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: these benefits, but he did a tax cut, and it's
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: you know, and it's because he wasn't like going crazy
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: spending money on wars and whatnot. He was very kind
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: of intelligent about the way he approached things. And there
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: was actually booming economy in the mid nineteen sixties in
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: the US, and I would say that's because of the
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: policies that JFK implemented in the early nineteen sixties. So
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: he was obsessed. Oh and there's nothing he hated more
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: than high inflation. He called inflation a cruel tax upon
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: the week. So he went to extreme lengths to keep
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: inflation low as president, and inflation during his term was
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: much lower than it is on average in the US.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: It was something like one percent annually inflation during his term,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: and that's because of all the work that he put in.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And so the first thing he tried to do is
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: clean up the US economy, make sure that social security
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: is stable, make sure that inflation becomes in check, because
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: he would be appalled at how much inflation we've had,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: you know. He would try to weed out the corruption
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: like in the various you know, FDA, CDC, EPA, because
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: he was very aware of conflicts of interest, like he did.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: You know, Rachel Carson put out a book like questioning
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Pesticide during his presidency, and the USDA was all, you know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: afraid of it and viewed her as a massive public
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: relations problem. But JFK did a study on pesticides and
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: came out and said, actually, Rachel Carson is right. These
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: pesticides are very toxic. They are very dangerous, you know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: And he was planning in nineteen sixty four to introduce
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: legislation to deal with that, which we never had. So
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I think he would look at the health of Americans,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: you know, just all of that, and then of course
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: on the foreign side, you know, he would be much
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: friendlier to foreign countries. He would try to wind down
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: the war between Ukraine and Russia and do what he
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: could with that. He would definitely not let Israel run
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: all over us, you know, he would make sure that
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Iran war stopped. And so I just think it would
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: just be very, very different.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Now. It would have been impossible to know, I suppose,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: But what do you think his approach to China would
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: have been. Certainly not the same as Trumps.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Surely, It's hard to say, but he was in general
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: for cooperation, so as long as they were keeping to
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: themselves and not so. His main issue with the Soviet
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: system is he felt they were trying to sort of
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: you know, expand and like, you know, get involved in Cuba,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: which is on the other side of the world, and
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: so he didn't want them in the Western hemisphere. But
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: he didn't, you know, whatever economic system or whatever they
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: want to do within their own borders, he didn't care.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: So I think as long as China, you know, wasn't
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: trying to act in an imperial way, I think he
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: would have tried to have good relations with them.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: The lost chapter of your book touches on JFK. Junior's
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: plane crush. Why is that important?
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I kind of people look at JFK's death
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: without ever looking at RFK or even JFK Jr. So
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: especially JFK and RFK, like those two absolutely should always
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: be looked at together, right because to me, those are
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: like serial murders. We don't know for one hundred percent,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: but that's the place to start. You have one brother
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: who's president who gets assassinated, another brother who's running for
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: president who gets assassinated. Why are we not looking at
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: these crimes together, to look at the similarities between them,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: to try to see if they might have the same
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: culprit Because to me, you know, the first suspect for
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: the murder of RFK would be whoever murdered JFK. Now
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: with JFK Junior that actually and when I was alive,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: so obviously the assassinations in the nineteen sixties I wasn't
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: alive for but I remember that plane crash, and so
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: in my mind is it was like, you know, well,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: this should be investigated, because at first I looked into
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: what was j K Junior doing? And he was you know,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: everyone close to him said he wanted to run for
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: office at some point, probably in the next few years.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Some were saying governor, some were saying senator. A lot
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: of people were saying he eventually wanted to run for
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: the presidency, and he was writing a lot of controversial
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: things in George magazine. You know, he published an article
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: by Oliver Stone titled our Counterfeit History, kind of saying
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: that we know our official history is really a counterfeit history.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: He investigated the Yitsak Rabbin assassination, and he actually let
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: the mother of the assassin write an article in George
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: magazine saying that her son was manipulated by right wing
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Israelis to murder Rabine, which was highly controversial because I
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: think he was the only US media outlet that questioned
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: the Ravine assassination. So here you have someone who is,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: you know, writing controversial articles in his magazine, who's questioning
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: very important events, you know, that are happening, including assassinations
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: of heads of state, who was very interested in running
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: for office, and suddenly he dies in this plane crash,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: and their only explanation is a bad weather. Well, no
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: one else died that night from bad weather, right, So,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: and there are a lot of questions about what is
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the weather because the tower manager at Martha's Vineyard said
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: you could see I think ten to twelve miles. I
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: think the Asauce reading, which is like some kind of
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: computer reading or something, also said you could see for
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: ten to twelve miles. Well he crashed like I think
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: of something like seven or eight miles from the island.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: So those statements and that Asauce reading is true, he
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: should have seen the island. So the claim that he
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: died from spatial disorientation, which means you can't see anything,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: you don't know what's up or down or sideways, that's
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: a hard claim to make. If that if those visibility
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: estimates are true. And so again, I don't take a
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: position on the book whether it was an accident or
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: whether there was foul play. I think there's arguments to
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: be made for both cases. But I feel like it
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: should be looked at because here you have JFK gets assassinated,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: his first are RFK gets assassinated, and his second heir
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: dies in a bizarre plane crash. So that should be
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: looked into if nothing else.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: You've said a couple times now that you don't take
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: a position on various talking points. Why, I think.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Because it's not that I don't have an opinion. It's
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: more so I feel like so many people do that,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: and they pigeonhole themselves and then more information comes out
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: and they become wedded to their theory and they can't
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: admit they were wrong, and they can't. I feel like
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of people they've been looking at this for
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: decades and they can't see straight anymore, Like they can't
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: even look straight at the assassination anymore because they've become
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: so wedded to a particular theory that they're not even
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: looking at all the data anymore, looking at the evidence anymore.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: And I feel that's very unfair to JFK, because that's
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: not the way to get justice for JFK. So it's
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: more like, I don't want to fall into that same
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: trap of, oh, I'm convinced this is absolutely what happened.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I'm convinced this is who ordered the assassination. So I'm
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: no longer going to look at the evidence as a whole.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Whereas for me, it's just really important to get justice
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: for JFK, and it's really important to just look at
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: the evidence and to give everyone the information and let
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: them decide for themselves. Where does this information point to
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: because they may interpret the same information differently than I do.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: You know, they may be able to pinpoint things that
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: I can't.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Getting justice for JFK will actually benefit the US.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely. It's because the average American has suffered tremendously
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: since his assassination. You know, just our economy, the inflation,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: you know, the Social Security going bankrupt. It's a complete
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: mess in the US. And it's because our presidents don't
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: work on behalf of the average person. They work on
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: behalf of the oligarchy. And so absolutely, I think getting
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: justice will bring America back to a republic, because right
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: now it's an empire. It's not really a republic.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: And the crumbling empire at that.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, I would say so as well. Yeah, and so
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I think you want to restore a proper republic where
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: your leadership actually actually works on your behalf.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: I've had the great pleasure of having RFK Jr. On
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: my show a couple of times, but he won't speak
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: about his uncle always father for that matter. Do you
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: think he knows?
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure he does. He seems to me to
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: be one of those people that made up his mind
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: decades ago and doesn't can't really look see the assassination anymore,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: you know, because he still thinks this over like Cuba
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: and Vietnam, which it may have been. I don't know,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: but I think there's other suspects, and I think there's
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: other policies that need to be looked at, and I
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: think he's yeah, I think he's still kind of stuck
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: in that frame of mind. And he may be right.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I think he's not looking at
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: it clearly in my opinion.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: I say that because I was thinking the other day
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: that we don't know the truth. Now. There's lots of speculation,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: and I suspect that's because a number of people who
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: were involved are possibly still alive. Maybe in the next
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: twenty five years, when all of those players are no
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: longer around, perhaps we will find out the truth.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I agree with that. I think
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: most of them are deceased. I think it's more you
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: want to protect entities and institutions and power structures, and
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I think if you let out the truth, it could
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: severely alter the way people perceive America. Like it's no
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: because you know, sort of Hawaii titled in America's Last President,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: the country you live in is not the country you
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: think you live And I think Tucker Carlson said something
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: like that, like this is not the country you think
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: it is or something like that, And so I think
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: if you just let out the truth, then you admit
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: you sort of that, You admit the president has no power,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: You admit that the president is a puppet, and that
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the president can be removed by powerful forces. And so
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I think, I don't know, maybe one day will be
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: as you said, if the empire crumbles enough that truth
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: will come out. I hope that it does come out
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: at some point, but I think, yeah, it's just too
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: many powerful interests to protect.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: I think quickly going through your book, I didn't see
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: anything about Marilyon Monroe, and I have to ask about that.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I am not RFK definitely because she was friends
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: with their brother in law. So their brother in law
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: was an actor and she was an actress, so they
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I know they RFK met Marilyn Monroe more than JFK did.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: I think JFK only met her on like one or
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: two occasions, so I do not know if he actually
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: had an affair with Marilyn Monroe. I think a lot
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: of that is I don't take a position on the
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: affair stuff. I kind of mostly I think it's not
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: any of my business, so that's.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: The reason I think it's tabloid. But the thing is,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: the thing is if if you're talking about the president
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: though this kind of this stuff is kind of important,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: yes and.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: No, because my general position is that they couldn't blackmail him.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: They had to kill him, so whatever he did could
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: not have been that bad. Otherwise they would have just
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: blackmailed him because he had all these policies that were
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: reversed after his assassination, and no one could figure out
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: how to get him to change his policies, so they
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: had to assassinate him. So whatever he did, and he
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: may have had some affairs, I have no idea, but
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: it can't be as bad as this sort of portrayed
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: in the press, because otherwise he should have been really
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: easy to blackmail and control his policies. It's kind of
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: my general take.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: But monicn we all know that the media doesn't lie.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I think how I view the affair stuff is this propaganda,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: and propaganda doesn't mean it's false, right. Propaganda can be
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: true or false or anywhere in between, So I would
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: never say like, oh, he didn't have affairs, because I
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: have no clue. But I do think the affair stuff
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: is used as propaganda to portray him in a shallow
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: and superficial way. And I think that's the purpose of it,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: is to kind of because a lot of times, you know,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: people find out I wrote a book about Kennedy, They're like, oh,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: but he's a womanizer. Why would you write a book
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: about him, you know what I mean. And it's a
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: way to make people not want to look at his policies,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: to not want to understand what was lost when he
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: was assassinated, to not understand how much this country and
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: this world has suffered as a result of his assassination.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: So that's why I kind of view it as propaganda,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: which again doesn't mean it's false, like there could very
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: well be some truth to it, but it's just used
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: for a purpose that's to kind of make people not care.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, knowing that he was a threat to intelligence,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: financial interests, corporate interests, foreign policy interests, did he stand
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: a chance?
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. You know, it's it's kind of
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: difficult because you know, we're he was approaching an election here,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: So I think it's fair to ask the question, you know,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: why wasn't his election just sabotaged, you know, his reelection?
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: You know, because if these forces have the power to
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: kill the president, I assume they would have the power
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: to sabotage a reelection. Although you know, he was very popular,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: so I don't think sabotaging his election would be easy.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: But I don't think it would be impossible. But whether
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: he would have lasted eight years, yeah, I don't know.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Because he I think, to your point, he angered every
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: power sector there is. I don't think there's a power
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: sector that he did not anger. You know, he angered
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Wall Street, he angered the CIA, he angered the military.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: So he you know, I view him as doing his
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: job right. He actually saw himself as president. He actually
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: saw his job as protecting the public interest against all
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: the narrow private interests that operate in our society. And
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: that's how he functioned as president. Whereas I think everyone's
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: sense is kind of a tool of these other powerful forces.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Because the other thing is like Kennedy was extremely wealthy,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: and so when you think of an extremely wealthy person,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: you're like, well, how is this person going to relate
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: to me? Or how is you know what I mean.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: But the wealth made him independent in a way because
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: he didn't feel as beholden to all these other power
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: interests because he grew up with tons of money his
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: whole life, right, so he didn't feel like he owed
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: these people anything. Whereas if you have all these other
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: presidents like Bill Clinton grew up in poverty, and you
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: know Obama and all these other presidents, they're going to
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: be whole be much more beholden to their donors than
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: JFK was, and so they're going to function in a
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: much less independent way.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: How did JFK get to the presidential position.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so he campaigned for like two years before. So
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: he flew out every weekend, most usually with Ted Sorenston,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: his speech writer, and they went to all these small
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: towns across America. And so he campaigned like crazy. Even
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: two years before he announced he was running for president,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: he'd already traveled all over the country campaigning. He entered
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: every single primary, well I don't think it was every
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: but pretty much every primary, even ones that people told
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: him not to get into that he's going to lose,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: he still entered them. He was and even though he
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: won every single primary, he still almost didn't get the
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: nomination because it was very tight at the convention as
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: to who was going to get the nomination because he
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: was not the establishment candidate. Lyndon Johnson was the establishment candidate.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: And so even with winning all the primaries, even with
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: all that campaigning, and I think TV being a new
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: medium helped him as well because he was very photogenic
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: and so you know, the newness of TV I think
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: got him probably a lot of voters as well. But
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: even so he still struggled to get the nomination because
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: he was not the establishment candidate. That is not who
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: the establishment wanted as the nominee.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, so then what's the moral of the story. I mean,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you say, you've written these two books.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: I think we want to look at one the long
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: term implications of his assassination. Like I would argue, would
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: nine to eleven have happened? Would the Iran War be
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: happening today? Would we be having the border crisis? Would
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: we be having this massive inflation? So I think you
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: want to look at all these things that are happening
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: in the world today and ask the question would they
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: be happening if JK was assassinated? And I can say
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: pretty confidently that some of them would not be happening today.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: So that's number one is that we still live with
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: that assassination every single day, which which means it's not history,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: it's very present, like it continues daily with us. Right. So,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: and we sort of, like what I said earlier, we
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: know what policies change. So until we demand that those
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: policies change back to what JFK was doing, we're still
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: living with the assassination because we're still living with the
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: policies that changed as a result of his assassination. So
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: that's number one. But number two is outside of policies,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: we still allowed a coup to happen in America and
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: then we just kept voting. So what does that say
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: about us as a society? About you know what I
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: mean that we'll just accept that whoever we elect will
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: get violently removed and we'll just we'll just take whoever
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: you give us. You know, That's how you get a
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: crumbling society. That's how you get like bankrupt social security
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: and whatnot, is because you've allowed the person that you
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: voted for to be removed, you know, by far narrower interests.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: And so I think there's a guy Charles Eisenstein and offer.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: I like he said that kennedy Is sassination is like
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: a cancer that has metastasized to such an extent that
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: nobody even knows the source anymore. So I think people
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: in America see that there's tons of corruption. They don't
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: trust the government. So trust in government was about eighty
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: percent when Kennedy was president. It's about twenty percent today.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: So you have only twenty percent of the American public
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: trusting the government. And that's what he's saying. This cancer
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: has metastasized to such an extent that this country is
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: like ill, but nobody knows why anymore, because it's like
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: they don't even know that. It goes back to the
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: JFK assassination, because you know, it's like boiling a frog.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: It happens over time and people don't even realize how
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: they got here. So I think you have to go
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: back to the source and say when did this go downhill?
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: When did the trust in government start to dip? It
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: started to dip after the Kennedy assassination.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think should have happened though,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Should the public have said no, no, no, we're not going
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: to enter the next election until we know what happened.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like in an ideal world, yes, but world,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: I absolutely understand why people kept voting. I mean I
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: kept voting. Oh I wasn't alive then, but I voted
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: in my lifetime, you know, So I totally like understand that.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: So I'm not sort of criticizing people, but I feel
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: like there needs to be I don't know, there needs
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: to be some way to demand justice, and maybe a
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: voting boycott is the way to do it, to say,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: you know, we're not voting until we feel confident that
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: the story you've told us about the Kennedy assassination is accurate.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: You know, I would have loved for people to do
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: that in nineteen sixty four. It was harder then because
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: there was no video, so we didn't see the Zapruder
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: film of the assassination where it looks obvious like you
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: shot from the front. That didn't come out till the
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, And so I think in nineteen sixty four
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: it was a lot easier for the public to buy
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: the official story. By the nineteen seventies, something like less
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: than ten percent of Americans bought the official story, and
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: that's when all the mafia and affair and all that
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: stories started coming out in the nineteen seventies, And I
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: think it was because there was a realization that, hey,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: the public's not buying this Kennedy story, nobody believes it.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Let's just trash the crap out of Kennedy so that
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: people don't care anymore. And that's basically what happened, because
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: you can't cover up the crime. It's too hard. Maybe
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: for a few years you can cover it up, but
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: you can't cover it up long term. So the only
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: other thing you can do is make people not care
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: about it. And I feel like that's where all the
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: negative Kennedy stories came from.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: As amount of interest. That's also where the phrase conspiracy
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: theorist came from. This, Yes, it came from the CIA.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Correct. Yeah, So the CIA distributed a memo to its
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: assets to basically label everyone a conspiracy theorist who questions
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: the Kennedy assassination. So it's not just demeaning Kennedy, it's
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: also they wanted to demean people who questioned his assassination.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: So it's like, in that sense, people don't want to
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: question it because they don't want to be labeled a
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: conspiracy theorist or a nut job or whatnot. So they
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: kind of used all these various psychological trips tricks to
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: make the assassination irrelevant by either demeaning the people questioning
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: it or demeaning JFK himself. It's kind of the same idea.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: I think, what have.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: You learned from writing you books?
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I think I've learned that. Like I've lived
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: in a bubble most of my life. Like I was, like,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: you know, certainly as a kid, as a teenager, even
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: in my twenties, I had no idea what was going on.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: You know. I was just kind of like I had,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: you know, I kind of I trusted government, you know.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: I kind of thought, like, you know, government is trying
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: to help the citizens, and we're trying to make peace abroad,
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: and we're trying to go after the bad guys, and
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: like that's not the case at all. Right, So I
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: think I learned from Kennedy's book, you know, how corrupt
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: things are today and how much better they could be.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: Like I learned what a good leader looks like and
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: what a proper president should be doing. You know, he
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: should be very concerned about the economy. He should be
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: very concerned about the welfare of his people. He should
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: be very concerned about stability and peace in the world.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: And I don't think our leaders are concerned about that.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: I think they're concerned about pleasing their donors and you know,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: getting their beachside property after they leave the White House,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: and that seems to be what they're concerned about.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: In our previous conversation, which was about Michael Jackson and
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: your book about Michael Jackson, he himself questioned the assassination
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: and that's the link.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, he did question. So he wrote a song
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: about it, about both the physical and the character. Assassination
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: of JFK is called Tabloid Junkie, and I think he's
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: was absolutely brilliant for merging those two things together, because
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: it was a sort of dual assassination or a sort
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: of dual erasure of JFK. And I'm really grateful to
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: him for sort of planting that seed in my mind
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: and getting me to understand that, you know, was the
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: physical assassination. But you know, MJ's words were they resurrected him,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: and I think that's what was happening in the nineteen seventies.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: They resurrected him as this sort of mob dealing playboy,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: and that was again to sort of it was a
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: way to cover up the assassination, I think, And I
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: think he understood that brilliantly, and he I think he
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: captured that brilliantly in.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: That song Grossy Knoll.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, no exactly, and he you know, and he's sort
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: of saying, like, you know, they mutilated his image, and
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: then he's saying, truth be told the Grassy Knoll and
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: so I think, you know, I think it took a
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: lot of guts to say that, and I think, you know,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: the truth does lie there both like kind of literally
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: and like metaphorically or whatever.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: And yet also ironically, the same thing happened to Michael.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, like he you know, I don't know if there
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: was foul play in his death or not, but certainly
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: his death was very strange, and certainly if he wasn't
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: directly killed, I think he was indirectly killed in the
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: sense that he was bullied to death. You know that
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: he was just so desperate to sleep and he you know,
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: he suffered so much trauma in his life, and a
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: lot of it was slander due to slander from the press.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: You know, I think Kennedy's been slandered in a lot
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: of ways after his death, but he wasn't so much
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: in his life, whereas Michael Jackson was slandered while he
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: was alive, and so that slander. You know. He said,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: like with your pen, you torture men. So I think
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: he kind of felt like he was being tortured by
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: the press and you know, by the establishment, and I
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: think that did ultimately lead to his death.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Why was RFK targeted?
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: I think because he would have reopened the investigation into
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: the JFK assassination because he was very interested in his
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: brother's assassination. And I think he would have done an
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: actual investigation, not a cover up, not a sweeping under
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: the rug. And so I think you could not allow
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: RFK to be president because that's the only way he
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: could enforce all the government agencies to participate in a
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: proper investigation. That seems to me to be the motive
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: for killing him. You know, I can't say definitively.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: But I mean, who else is able to reopen an investigation?
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: Only the US president, I think.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: So I mean, I mean, yes, I mean certainly citizens
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: can investigate it, and citizens have been investigating it for years,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: but it's about getting an audience. That's part of the
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: problem is like, you know, a lot of citizens have
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: done a lot of good work on the assassination, but
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: how do you get it to a wide audience. How
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: do you get the American people to understand it? And
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: I think that can only come from the president or
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: from very high up, or from the media or something
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: like that. But our mainstream media is not going to
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: So what does that statement? Was it Nicholas Katzenbacher something
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: and you said a day after, a day after the
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: assassination that it was it was Oswald?
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And well he didn't say it was Oswald. He said,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: we have to convince the public that it was Oswald, right,
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: So I think that's really important to understand. I don't
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: think he cared if it was Oswald or not. He
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: cared that this thing gets swept under the rug. And
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: that was sort of everyone's attitude is we have to
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: cover up this crime, which is really really sad, you know,
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: And I get Lbj's World War three scare, but it's
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: just like, if you cover up that kind of crime,
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: you're not a healthy society.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: But LBJ also didn't really have a good relationship with JFK.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: No, because so LBJ kind of got pushed on JFK.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: And I wonder if that was intentional as a sort
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: of insurance policy, you know, if JK becomes too problematic,
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: we'll just install LBJ. So LBJ was Senate Majority Leader
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: at the time, and so Philip Graham and Joseph also
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: encouraged JFK to try to smooth things over with LBJ
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: and offer him the VP spot because JFK was really
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: concerned that if he has a bitter LBJ a Senate
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Majority leader, he's going to block all of JFK's legislation,
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: like he would have probably never gotten the Nuclear Test
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Band Treaty ratified, and so he knew he had to
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: deal with the LBAJ issues. So he went downstairs and
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: tried to just smooth things over. And according to Arthur's Lessenger,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: he didn't actually offer him the VP spot. He sort
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: of like held it out just to try to smooth
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: things over, and and LBJ wrapped at it. He like
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: took it. And then JFK went to talk to Bobby
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: and he said, you'll never believe it. He wants it.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: What the hell do we do now? So then Bobby
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: went downstairs to talk to LBJ to try to talk
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: him out of it, and LBJ never ever forgave Bobby
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: for that for trying to talk him out of the
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: VP spot. But Bobby was not successful, so LBJ ended
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: up being VP, and JFK was relieved not to have
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: him as Senate Majority Leader, but he wasn't really he
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: didn't really want him as VP either, but he thought
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: he was like competent enough, like he thought, you know,
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: he didn't. He thought he was kind of vindictive and bitter,
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: but still competent. But then later Jackie Kennedy said in
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: her Oral History that by nineteen sixty three, JFK thought
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: LBJ was totally incompetent, Like he would say, my god,
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: can you imagine what will happen to this country if
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: LBJ ever becomes president? So by that, you know, by
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: the end of his life, he thought LBJ was absolutely
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: like horrible or incompetent. I should say, so, yeah, they
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: were not. They did not have a great relationship at all,
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: And I think it was the worst mistake JFK ever made,
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: and I think it cost him his life because I
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: think if he had someone more like him as VP,
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: there would have been no benefit to assassinating him, because
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: then that person would have a continued the same policies
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: and B would have demanded an investigation, so you couldn't
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: get away with assassinating him. So I think it was
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: absolutely the worst choice of his life that he ever made,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: and I think it cost him his life. I think
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: it's really important to look at the immediate short term
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: changes and also the long term changes. You know, it's
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: like because that's what we know, Like, we don't know,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: we don't have one hundred percent proof of about the assassination,
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: but we do have one hundred percent proof on his policies.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: So those are the things we can focus on. Those
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: are the things that we can honor JFK by honoring
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: his policies. And I feel like, and that's a start,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: you know, that's a start.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: A Monica way, Can I get your book Socking Of?
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Follow your work?
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Uh? My books are available on Amazon, thrift Books, Barnes,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: and Noble, all the usual places. And then I'm online
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: on x just my name and also on substack just
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: my name.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: I remember that one this time, all right, almost almost
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: almost call Lewinsky. I want to go away sac. Thank
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: you for joining me in the trenches.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me back on