Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #281 - For Azeroth!: “Defensive Direction”

Transcript

#281 - For Azeroth!: “Defensive Direction” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

• 0:00
  Man, he just wants to make sure that he knocked the trash is
• 0:02
  what I've gotten out of this. Listen, it's very much changed
• 0:06
  the wording on that last word so Rex could not keep a straight
• 0:09
  face for. Calendar to the burning region.
• 0:15
  For Gilnius has not died, for the Lich King, for the Cindora,
• 0:24
  for the Alliance for the Horn. For Azeroth.
• 0:31
  Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
• 0:35
  I am one of your hosts, Manny, and I am joined by the other two
• 0:40
  parts of the Triumphant. Let's begin with introducing the
• 0:45
  Sultan of Sean. Hello Sean, how you doing?
• 0:47
  Hey, Manny. Hey, it's Manny.
• 0:50
  I I hate to do this. I don't like to be that guy.
• 0:52
  If you know what somebody is saying, you shouldn't correct
• 0:54
  them. But our auto captions keep
• 0:57
  pointing out, they keep thinking you're trying to say triumphant.
• 1:00
  It's triumvirate that's. What I say, Maybe it's just a
• 1:04
  pronunciation thing. Triumvirate.
• 1:08
  I just I want to have to stop correcting the auto captions.
• 1:12
  All right, we made dishes all together.
• 1:16
  They're kinnate accents. Triumvirate.
• 1:22
  There you go, nailed it. OK.
• 1:27
  And the other voice that you heard was Lex Ritz.
• 1:35
  Hello, I pronounce everything perfectly as we know.
• 1:41
  You do you do you? Are you laughing about?
• 1:46
  Manny, life goes on. So guys, I just that's it.
• 1:55
  The show's the tightly derailed. Good job, Sean.
• 1:57
  How's the World of Warcraft treated you?
• 2:00
  Wow's. Wow's great.
• 2:01
  I've completed my Mop remix so all items that can be purchased
• 2:06
  with bronze have been purchased Max level on the character and
• 2:11
  done all of the quests in Mr. Pandaria so I don't ever have to
• 2:15
  log into that mode again. OK, OK.
• 2:18
  And I'm guessing season four has kind of been done for you for a
• 2:22
  while. Yeah, since what day did Season
• 2:24
  4 launch? Oh, damn.
• 2:26
  OK, OK. Well, all right, Lex, how's,
• 2:33
  how's your adventures in Asarov treating you?
• 2:37
  Oh. Oh we're really derailing.
• 2:40
  No, nobody has normal adventures in Asarov right now.
• 2:43
  I have been experiencing a life shake up which involves moving a
• 2:48
  couple states with like a couple weeks notice.
• 2:52
  So to be honest I have not had many adventures in as Roth but
• 2:55
  I'm finally stable. I finally have a, you know, a
• 2:58
  home that soon will have stable Wi-Fi and then I'm.
• 3:02
  I'm gonna be going absolutely bananas 'cause I won't know
• 3:05
  anyone here, so I won't have anything else to do other than
• 3:07
  play video games. OK, you're you're standing up
• 3:10
  for the long haul. That's like a win.
• 3:12
  This is this is the real, this is more hack is if you move
• 3:15
  someplace and don't make any friends, you get to play so many
• 3:18
  video games because nobody invites you anywhere.
• 3:20
  I mean, like, welcome to the last three years of my life.
• 3:24
  It's like getting a place. Mainly thing you can also blow
• 3:28
  up your life and you can just come live with me and I'll
• 3:30
  invite you to do things and then neither of us can play video
• 3:33
  games and then you want to worry about being health poor.
• 3:35
  Guys, I feel like that would be really bad for the show.
• 3:41
  I mean, like I said, I, I, I already did that three years
• 3:45
  ago, kind of blew up and blew up everything moved out to like
• 3:49
  outside of the Toronto core. And so now it's like more
• 3:54
  suburban and this, this place actually goes to sleep.
• 3:58
  It's, it's not the same as the city life.
• 4:00
  So it is a, it is a complete thing.
• 4:02
  My, my, I don't know, I guess when you get old, you, all of
• 4:06
  your friends move everywhere. And so like it's always going to
• 4:09
  happen. You're just following a natural
• 4:11
  part of life. And you know what, Lex?
• 4:13
  Pretty soon, pretty soon, you'll be in your 30s and this is this
• 4:17
  is how it goes, Lex. That's true, I'm just getting a
• 4:20
  head start on this. I have already jumped to the
• 4:23
  like, moving to the middle of nowhere and ever speaking to
• 4:26
  another person that most people wait until they're like 60s to
• 4:28
  get to. And I just really, I was ready
• 4:31
  to go. I was born old.
• 4:32
  Don't worry, don't worry, you're an old soul in, in a couple of
• 4:35
  years you'll like pick up again and then move back to your
• 4:37
  hometown and you'll be like, where's everybody?
• 4:40
  And just like the reconnect that happens, that happens and it
• 4:43
  will happen sometimes. Actually it hasn't happened to
• 4:46
  me yet, but I I'm sure many people do it.
• 4:48
  I, I grew up in Iowa which for those of you who don't know the
• 4:52
  different states is insanely cheap to the point where I like
• 4:57
  I get really sad looking at like housing prices around here
• 5:00
  because I'm like wait you're telling me that I can't buy a
• 5:02
  house for like $150,000 Like a a multi?
• 5:06
  What are you talking about? That's a normal housing price.
• 5:10
  So there's I, I, I can't imagine moving back to Iowa for a
• 5:13
  variety of reasons. But if I were to decide to blow
• 5:17
  up my life again, the odds that I choose to go someplace with
• 5:19
  lower housing prices is non 0. OK, well, as As for me, I've
• 5:26
  been doing the mount hunting. I've been doing a lot of like, I
• 5:30
  like to sort of take the downtime and go back to old
• 5:34
  expansions and try and like capture those last little things
• 5:37
  that I I'm missing. While like most of the time when
• 5:40
  it's like pushing through the season, like I'm focused on like
• 5:43
  whatever the new content is. So there's been that.
• 5:46
  But then I wanted to say that I've been playing beta, but I've
• 5:51
  also sort of fallen off the beta because shamans have not been
• 5:54
  getting any changes for a long time.
• 5:59
  And so I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna save my energy for
• 6:02
  when those changes come and hopefully the hopium will last
• 6:07
  until then. And then I'll be able to dive in
• 6:11
  and just be like, OK, this is all the stuff that changes and
• 6:14
  get of all that feedback. So I'd like to say I'm pacing
• 6:17
  myself and not just burning out, but I've seen a lot of people
• 6:20
  burning out at this time for a lot of the stuff in Wow, even
• 6:25
  though what we've got Cataclysm that's launched, Season of
• 6:29
  Discovery that's getting new stuff there and again, all the
• 6:33
  stuff with the War Within that's coming out.
• 6:35
  But we're here to talk about modern game.
• 6:39
  Do you call it modern? Do you call it retail?
• 6:40
  Like Sean, what do you? What do you?
• 6:43
  Say I say retail. You say retail, Lex?
• 6:45
  Yeah. I say World of Warcraft.
• 6:47
  You say World of Warcraft regardless of what what version
• 6:50
  is. You you, you classic you You
• 6:52
  guys can figure it out on your own.
• 6:54
  You get the special word. I'm playing World of War.
• 6:57
  I'm kidding. I love my classic friends.
• 6:58
  You guys are doing so good I'm so proud of you.
• 7:00
  I. Can do.
• 7:04
  OK, well, let's talk a little bit about the actual news that's
• 7:08
  been happening. So let's have well, you know,
• 7:11
  Sean, you start off with this first article here.
• 7:13
  Cool. Yeah, this week, all of last
• 7:16
  week was like win after win after win for Blizzard as far as
• 7:20
  I'm concerned. So it's going to be a good week
• 7:22
  for covering the news. They shadow dropped a a change
• 7:27
  to the way that mounts work for holiday events wherein they are
• 7:33
  only available the first time you kill it per day per account.
• 7:39
  And each day that you kill it but do not get the mount, you
• 7:44
  gain bad luck protection so that you get an increased chance the
• 7:47
  next day. The only question this is this
• 7:50
  is an unequivocal win. The only question?
• 7:53
  It completely eliminates the need to farm out on 75 alts a
• 7:58
  day and we will no longer see tweets like I killed love rocket
• 8:02
  45 times every day for the event and now it like my I'm not
• 8:05
  really going to kill it 14 times.
• 8:06
  You're welcome. Here's a bunch of free time back
• 8:08
  in your life. The only question that I have is
• 8:12
  does the bad luck protection, which isn't the term they use
• 8:16
  but that's what it is. Does the bad luck protection
• 8:18
  carry over if I don't get the Midsummer Fyre Festival mount
• 8:24
  skin this year? Do do the attempts that I've
• 8:28
  made carry over to next year? And I don't think we have an
• 8:30
  answer on that. Yeah, I have not seen an answer
• 8:33
  for that. I've actually seen a couple of
• 8:36
  other different complaints because obviously how many
• 8:38
  different people are playing it, how many different ways.
• 8:40
  And so they all have things that are like, oh, but this is how it
• 8:44
  disadvantages me. So the people who had the army
• 8:47
  of vaults, they're like, could you at least have a the original
• 8:51
  lesser chance on the other attempts so that I can do it?
• 8:55
  There are people who play and they don't do any of the end
• 8:59
  game stuff that we usually talk about on the show.
• 9:01
  Their thing is collecting whether it's pets or mounds or
• 9:04
  anything. And so these holidays are kind
• 9:08
  of like the big push for them. And I had a friend who would
• 9:13
  like get a bunch of alts and the biggest thing they would do is
• 9:17
  holiday stream. These are all my attempts.
• 9:20
  These are all my attempts. And so I have seen people who
• 9:23
  say, well, now I log in and do one a 10th and then that's it.
• 9:27
  I'd like all this effort that I've put into all these other
• 9:31
  these alts. It's wasted.
• 9:33
  And Blizzard, why didn't you give me a heads up?
• 9:35
  So like, there's been complaints from that end.
• 9:38
  There's people who are complaining that Blizzard hasn't
• 9:41
  put out the actual odds. And if it's not pretty much
• 9:46
  guaranteed by the time that you've made the 14 attempts,
• 9:49
  they they still think it's not quite enough.
• 9:52
  And this is legitimately people making this argument with me and
• 9:57
  like it's better. I have a question, can I ask you
• 9:59
  a question? I just want to a short
• 10:01
  interrupt. Have any of these people who are
• 10:05
  now complaining that they get a bad luck protection on one kill
• 10:09
  a day? Did any of them ever complain
• 10:11
  about drop rates in the events prior to it going to this
• 10:15
  method? Did any of them ever say things
• 10:16
  like I firmed this every damn. If they did, then they can just
• 10:19
  take the win, take the win. Take it.
• 10:22
  I don't believe people. Sometimes people are not capable
• 10:26
  of taking the win and I get the strive for the ideal.
• 10:30
  I get to put it nicely. I get when people strive for an
• 10:34
  ideal, ideally they'd like it to get to this point.
• 10:37
  And yes, it's great that you've made this improvement, but it's
• 10:40
  not quite there. That's the most constructive way
• 10:43
  I can put it. I am closer to the way that you
• 10:47
  put it, which is, come on, like I like, I don't know.
• 10:52
  Anyways, I think that again, there are a bunch of different
• 10:56
  perspectives on this. I'm not going to say that I,
• 10:58
  that my perspective, as much as it might align with yours, is
• 11:02
  better than anybody else's perspective.
• 11:04
  It's just where I, I'm sitting and I understand that hey, like
• 11:09
  I, I actually think that in the world of collectibles, there
• 11:14
  should be some things that are chase.
• 11:16
  There should be some things that you aren't guaranteed or even
• 11:20
  likely to get in the course of your playthrough.
• 11:24
  Maybe those things shouldn't be on holidays where it is a
• 11:28
  limited amount of time to attempt it, but I don't think
• 11:32
  that invincible should have bad luck protection so that
• 11:35
  eventually you're guaranteed to, to get it.
• 11:38
  I think that every so often they should maybe put in a hey,
• 11:42
  during this time, there's a greater chance it it drops so
• 11:45
  that people can ever so often be like, OK, this is going to
• 11:48
  reinvigorate it. Or maybe I'll only try during
• 11:50
  these periods. That's the same reason that I
• 11:52
  think that the stuff that dropped in Pandaria with this
• 11:55
  Mr. Pandaria remix, I'm fine with them being like, hey, you
• 11:59
  want to put in the effort and go for this.
• 12:01
  You can buy it on the on the vendor, but it's a limited time.
• 12:06
  It's not completely replacing the stuff.
• 12:08
  It's just a thing. But I know that there are people
• 12:11
  who are going to show up right at right near the end of Mr.
• 12:16
  Pandaria and be like, come on, why would you put it so high?
• 12:20
  I can't get to this stuff in time.
• 12:21
  I was whatever events, valid events, have caused them to not
• 12:27
  be able to take full advantage of a Pandaria, and now they feel
• 12:31
  disadvantaged. And there's always going to be
• 12:33
  some sort of disadvantage. If you could get something
• 12:36
  guaranteed if you log in 10 days, the people who can only
• 12:39
  log in nine days are going to be like, come on and so forth and
• 12:43
  so forth. There's always going to be some
• 12:44
  some sort of disadvantage. So the conversation's always
• 12:46
  going to be continuing. I just think that this is a good
• 12:50
  move for holiday mounts. I just don't want it for
• 12:51
  everything. Yeah.
• 12:53
  Yeah, I, I agree. I think that there's a joy to
• 12:57
  rarity. I do.
• 12:58
  Also, I, I've said this on the show before and I'm not
• 13:00
  necessarily saying this is a critique, but I do find it
• 13:04
  really interesting how World of Warcraft, the game that when it
• 13:09
  came out was synonymous with binding, right?
• 13:13
  The game that pushed Mmos into this grinding mindset because
• 13:17
  everyone wanted to be like World of Warcraft and World of
• 13:20
  Warcraft was where everything was going and everyone was like,
• 13:22
  oh, I guess this is how you make an MMO is now not only trying to
• 13:26
  minimize grinding, but making it so the grinding is not
• 13:28
  beneficial. And again, I, I, I do appreciate
• 13:33
  this, right? That was one thing that made
• 13:34
  World of Warcraft tough for me. And, and one thing that makes it
• 13:36
  easier for me to play as much as I, you know, to, and to enjoy it
• 13:39
  and do the content that I want to do is the fact that I don't
• 13:41
  have to grind. So if I take some time I'm off,
• 13:43
  that's OK. I just find it fascinating, like
• 13:46
  having played this game since Wrath and then taking a break
• 13:50
  and then come back. Like to see how much the mindset
• 13:53
  Blair has had about Mmos and about how its player base should
• 13:57
  be engaging with the game has shifted just like drastically,
• 14:01
  right? Like complete 180 on how they
• 14:04
  expect us to interact with the game.
• 14:06
  I definitely think that it is far less grindy and that the the
• 14:09
  like man it almost like it almost feels like the overturn
• 14:13
  window of what is considered valid play and what is a
• 14:18
  grotesque grind has shifted so huge over the course of Wow's 20
• 14:23
  years. But to even take it further,
• 14:26
  when World of Warcraft first came out, it was the anti grind
• 14:31
  game Lex, when you look at games like EverQuest that you had to
• 14:38
  like literally stand there and just kill 20 monsters to get
• 14:41
  through level. There wasn't a questing system
• 14:43
  to like hand you out XP and those sort of sort of Mmos.
• 14:47
  That was the grind. It was literally like you've got
• 14:50
  to kill twenty of these to get to level 6 and then you got to
• 14:54
  go to this place and kill forty of these to get to the next
• 14:57
  level and so forth. So Wow in its inception was the
• 15:01
  anti grind MMO and it and what people have accepted as grind
• 15:07
  has just completely shifted. So it, it is very strange and it
• 15:10
  is all I'm gonna tell. Say this flat out guys.
• 15:13
  It's arbitrary wherever they put the line.
• 15:16
  And if you think it has to be somewhere else, oh, that's your
• 15:19
  decision. And it's like, I'm sure even
• 15:22
  amongst the designers they had a bunch of different opinions on
• 15:28
  where exactly that point should be.
• 15:31
  And I mean, also, I should also say, because I know that this is
• 15:35
  very true. I'm, I'm sure this is one of the
• 15:37
  things driving world, the developers.
• 15:39
  This is also really healthy, right?
• 15:41
  Like I, I remember all of this stories online of like, you
• 15:45
  know, people's relationships falling apart.
• 15:47
  Like the, the, the addiction that occurred in the World of
• 15:50
  Warcraft was like really, really bad.
• 15:53
  Like, I remember, and this is, I want to be clear, this is not
• 15:55
  like a traumatic story to me, But like, I remember my dad
• 15:58
  playing World of Warcraft for like hours and hours and hours a
• 16:00
  day. And it became like a running
• 16:01
  joke that like if you ask dad a question, you could do something
• 16:04
  else because he's not going to process that you're talking to
• 16:06
  him for another 10 minutes, right?
• 16:07
  Like, and this was all very, not really 10 minutes, but like, and
• 16:10
  this, you know, it, I, it rolled right off my back as a kid, but
• 16:14
  like, looking back, I'm like, Oh my God, right.
• 16:16
  Like good Lord, like this game grabbed him and pulled him in.
• 16:20
  I play Final Fantasy now as a family, but the, the, the the
• 16:26
  degree World of Warcraft was driving addiction early on was
• 16:30
  really, really bad and causing a lot of really genuine harm.
• 16:34
  So the fact that the developers are pulling away from that is
• 16:37
  really positive. I don't want to construe this at
• 16:39
  all as me being like, let's go back to the day when everyone
• 16:44
  was posting on whatever forums they were on that like they
• 16:49
  hadn't had a real conversation with their spouse in the last
• 16:52
  three months because they're playing World of Warcraft.
• 16:54
  So thank you to the devs for the thoughtfulness and and the love
• 16:57
  that's clearly going into this game.
• 16:59
  But I do think it's very interesting.
• 17:02
  For sure. So that's all from like this new
• 17:05
  Midsummer fest. They have a new dragon riding
• 17:09
  customization. I don't chase those.
• 17:11
  They're not actually mounts in the mount entry.
• 17:12
  So it's never something that I chase.
• 17:14
  Strange little distinction for me, but there has been more
• 17:18
  stuff coming because on top of, you know, increased drop chances
• 17:22
  and less grind to get those, they're also removing some of
• 17:26
  the services which people were complaining about as
• 17:29
  microtransactions. 2 ones that are being removed are the Guild
• 17:34
  surfaces that are transferring your Guild to a different realm
• 17:39
  and that's obviously because cross realm guilds are going to
• 17:43
  be a thing. And the other one is that Guild
• 17:47
  faction transfers are gone because you can have people from
• 17:51
  all different factions in your Guild even today.
• 17:54
  So both of those are going away on July 22nd and people are
• 18:00
  looking at this and saying, huh, is there more of a story behind
• 18:04
  it? Sean, you like to look, look at
• 18:07
  these things, read the tea leaves.
• 18:09
  What do you, what do your eyes see with this?
• 18:12
  Yeah, so again, another absolute West.
• 18:15
  This means that the war within pre patch is coming.
• 18:17
  We're excited about that. People online saw this date at
• 18:21
  2:00, so two days before this announcement, they data mined a
• 18:25
  splash screen, a blue bot. Spoiler alert that the pre patch
• 18:29
  is going to start on July 30th with the actual date on there on
• 18:33
  this on this splash screen they found two days later the
• 18:36
  Blizzard announced they're retiring these services and all
• 18:39
  of the people who found that screenshot immediately said it's
• 18:42
  the 23rd. It's probably still the 30th.
• 18:45
  They're just retiring them a week early.
• 18:47
  I know right now the hot thing to say is they've all but
• 18:50
  confirmed it's the 23rd with this move, but I think we're
• 18:54
  probably still looking at the 30th and the splash screen they
• 18:56
  made with that date as the start of the pre patch and that
• 19:00
  they're just sun setting these services a week ahead of time as
• 19:04
  opposed to the night before. That's my thought, maybe I'm
• 19:07
  wrong. What do you think Many or Lex do
• 19:09
  you think? Have either of you heard that
• 19:10
  rumor that suddenly it's now a week earlier than the splash
• 19:14
  screen that was data mined? So I will say in I think maybe
• 19:19
  I'm misremembering things. In my experience, when somebody
• 19:23
  data mines a data lizard likes to change it, am I making that
• 19:26
  up? Is that the a rampanting?
• 19:28
  I feel like there was another time that somebody data mined a
• 19:31
  like a screen that it said like this is coming this day and
• 19:35
  Blizzard was like, OOP, actually it's coming tomorrow.
• 19:37
  So you guys can all suck it up, but I'm making that up.
• 19:40
  But I I think. Sometimes they would like to do
• 19:43
  it. I I will say though, like
• 19:47
  they're not like this service is, is I?
• 19:50
  I don't know that I would agree that like if they're doing it on
• 19:52
  the 20, if they're removing the service on the 22nd, that
• 19:55
  they're going to then be putting out the war within pre patch the
• 19:59
  next day. Because like what do you who
• 20:03
  there? There is no Guild so urgent that
• 20:06
  you need to be able to faction transfer or realm transfer the
• 20:12
  day before, right? Like any of this can be.
• 20:14
  So I don't know agree that like the the faction transfers are
• 20:18
  coming out 20, the 22nd and obviously within 3 patch not the
• 20:21
  23rd I. Would agree with definitely
• 20:24
  Sean's reasoning. Like you don't create a graphics
• 20:27
  and then be like oh they didn't mind it, let's change the
• 20:30
  graphics get back to work artists.
• 20:31
  That's just wasted man hours. Two guys, this is a faction
• 20:37
  transfer for a Guild and a grilled service.
• 20:40
  Those things take time to to be pending and time to process.
• 20:45
  You would never do that the day before and then screw up the
• 20:48
  system. There's also the fact that like
• 20:51
  if you were to change the charge for something that becomes
• 20:55
  invalid the next day, you are going to cause a lot of customer
• 20:58
  strife that they don't want. So obviously they sunset it
• 21:01
  before get all of that stuff cleared out and then they make
• 21:08
  the switch. It's just business wise, you
• 21:11
  don't want to put yourself in that situation.
• 21:13
  So no, I do not believe this suddenly means that we're
• 21:15
  getting the patch earlier. But it's fun to watch people
• 21:21
  just throw out random speculation.
• 21:24
  Completely spin out. It's fun to watch people
• 21:27
  completely spin out now. Some more fun news 'cause like,
• 21:36
  yeah, this is actually a pretty good, like you're saying, a lot
• 21:39
  of WS this week. Let's have let's have Lex, do
• 21:43
  you want to take the games con announcement?
• 21:45
  Yeah. So Blizzard, as we all know that
• 21:47
  they're not hosting BlizzCon this year, but they did say that
• 21:50
  they were going to be taking this time to be part of other
• 21:53
  more local conventions and, and celebratory things.
• 21:57
  And they mentioned James Con as an option and they've announced
• 22:02
  it. So Blizzard will be at Games Con
• 22:05
  with World of Warcraft, Diablo and Overwatch, presumably.
• 22:11
  I read the article and now I'm forgetting what exactly I said.
• 22:14
  But they're gonna be here. And so if you are, this is if
• 22:18
  you're European. Yeah, I really, I really.
• 22:22
  I swear to God I read the article.
• 22:25
  One is Germany, right? Yeah.
• 22:28
  No, Cologne's France. Yeah, Cologne sounds.
• 22:33
  Yeah, game's coming. Pretty sure is in Germany.
• 22:35
  Is it in Cologne? I.
• 22:37
  Thought I read Cologne. I'm just gonna quickly click
• 22:40
  through 'cause we literally. We're doing so, yeah, we that's.
• 22:43
  OK. I'm pretty sure we're.
• 22:45
  Really disturbing for like. Yeah, returning to Cologne.
• 22:48
  I I read it right, I thought. Cologne was in France.
• 22:53
  Largest city in the German state?
• 22:54
  Yeah, it is in Germany. OK.
• 22:58
  So Europeans would be like, come on guys, basic geography.
• 23:03
  Clearly you are North American there.
• 23:05
  Is also a Cologne song. There is also a Cologne for him.
• 23:11
  OK. Great.
• 23:15
  We're but this is the Germany. From.
• 23:18
  Yeah, August 21st to 25th and they'll be bopping right along
• 23:23
  in Germany. A surprising number of Warcraft
• 23:29
  content creators made announcements saying, hey, we're
• 23:33
  gonna randomly go to Blizz or go to Gamescon this year prior to
• 23:38
  this announcement happening. And now it just seems to and,
• 23:41
  and when the announcement came out, a lot of them are like, oh,
• 23:43
  what a fun coincidence. I suspect it's not as much of A
• 23:48
  coincidence as they want us to believe.
• 23:51
  The tithing is weird though, because like Gamescon this year
• 23:55
  is happening from August 21st to the 25th.
• 23:59
  That means that all those creators that are going there,
• 24:02
  it's going to be a celebration of like the launch of the War
• 24:05
  Within, because War Within early access is right there during
• 24:11
  that time, right? And the launch is the 26th. 22nd
• 24:15
  is the early release. The launch is.
• 24:17
  The the launch is the 22nd launch is the 20.
• 24:19
  Second, what's the early? Yeah.
• 24:22
  So launch is the 22nd, late release is the 22nd.
• 24:26
  OK, I'm just saying. You're not paying for an early
• 24:31
  release, You're not paying to get a late launch.
• 24:34
  The game War Within, if all of the questing in the zones is all
• 24:38
  available in the 22nd and that's the launch of the game.
• 24:41
  It's not an early access. There's no feature stripped
• 24:43
  down. That's the launch of the game.
• 24:45
  There literally is there. Well, I mean.
• 24:48
  No, they just haven't started season one yet.
• 24:50
  I mean, we don't have, we can't say we don't have any details on
• 24:52
  what's available in the boat, UN quote early release.
• 24:57
  But if it's just not the start of season one, that would be the
• 24:58
  exact same as if it was the 20 I know.
• 25:00
  I know that they have, they're going to do stuff with dungeon
• 25:03
  lockouts, they're going to be doing stuff with any of those
• 25:07
  weekly rotational stuff so that people who come in on the quote
• 25:11
  UN quote late releases, you're calling it now aren't going to
• 25:14
  be disadvantaged in that way. So.
• 25:17
  Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what they do.
• 25:19
  That happens even at the launch though, where it launches on a,
• 25:22
  if it launches on a Monday, you wouldn't be able to do any of
• 25:25
  that stuff till reset on the Tuesday.
• 25:27
  Yeah, Yeah. So.
• 25:29
  There's some of that stuff. I I think that the that they
• 25:31
  should give more information about what exactly is theirs,
• 25:36
  but like cynically I think it helps them sell the higher
• 25:40
  version if they don't tell you how much is limited until much
• 25:43
  later. Yeah, but I think, I think
• 25:47
  there's a mass, I think we're going to see a massive, we'll
• 25:50
  call it a pre launch event at games.com with a lot of European
• 25:54
  creators. I haven't seen any NA creators
• 25:57
  say they were going yet. It's just been all European,
• 26:00
  which makes sense. But I think you're going to see
• 26:02
  a pretty big event. But we have no, I have no
• 26:07
  confirmation of this. It's just all speculation based
• 26:09
  on the individuals that I've seen on Twitter and on their
• 26:11
  streams say they were going. Sorry.
• 26:13
  Yeah, IA little surprised that they timed it like this not to
• 26:16
  be the girl who on every episode is like think of the but like
• 26:21
  that is going to be exhausting, right?
• 26:23
  Like if they're in the middle of their launch wall, some of their
• 26:27
  team is like in your I guess they probably presumably have
• 26:29
  your team, but like, you know, like there's going to be work
• 26:31
  that's being done that needs to be done because it's the launch
• 26:34
  and there's going to be a million bugs and everyone's
• 26:36
  freaking out and forms are going crazy and everything requires a
• 26:39
  ton of extra labor. So I I'm mildly surprised that
• 26:44
  they didn't time their like if they knew they were going to
• 26:47
  games con that they didn't time the release to dodge it since
• 26:51
  you know, to some degree there's never going to be a perfect
• 26:54
  time. Yeah, I think they timed the
• 26:57
  release to hit it. I think they want to hit it.
• 27:01
  It's a it's a major event. It's a major gaming event.
• 27:05
  They can now have a presence, you know, and it's either on
• 27:08
  stage and they can say and World of Warcraft, the War within
• 27:12
  early access is live now. That's fair.
• 27:16
  I mean, I wouldn't. Be surprised if we hear that
• 27:18
  exact quote. Yeah, it's, yeah, I think that's
• 27:21
  a that's a big thing because like when you look at the timing
• 27:23
  of this, they've already put out with like the Xbox Game
• 27:28
  Showcase, they've already put out, hey, this is when it's
• 27:30
  releasing. Here's when Diablo's having its
• 27:34
  first expansion. So like there's not going to be
• 27:37
  much in the way of headlines for that.
• 27:41
  I wouldn't be surprised if at Gamescon they actually start
• 27:45
  spoiling stuff towards what's coming after the fact.
• 27:51
  Not the first major patch afterwards, but like the 11.0
• 27:57
  point 5 patch to give them some some news that isn't going to
• 28:01
  completely derail the season one that they're going into.
• 28:04
  So like I expect to see something like that as news for
• 28:08
  World of Warcraft. I'm sorry, I'm not a Diablo.
• 28:12
  This is not a Diablo show. So I'm not even going to pretend
• 28:14
  about that. Overwatch.
• 28:16
  Also, I suspect that they'll show a new hero or something,
• 28:19
  even if it's early development just to keep the keep that hype
• 28:22
  going. But in terms of like, yeah, the
• 28:26
  developers, the people going, you're looking at rhetoric.
• 28:31
  Head of PR has confirmed that he's going.
• 28:33
  You're looking at Holly. Yep.
• 28:38
  Holly definitely said she was going.
• 28:40
  I didn't see if Maria, oh, I'm forgetting her last name.
• 28:47
  It's not Hill Hilton. Maybe.
• 28:50
  Nope, that's. That's the it's The Avengers.
• 28:52
  That's the one that keeps screwing up.
• 28:55
  But Maria, I apologize for forgetting your last name.
• 29:00
  I I haven't seen her stepping out.
• 29:03
  She wasn't the last London one when when Holly went.
• 29:06
  And you're right, they have a big European staff and because
• 29:10
  they're working with Xbox, they're hopefully there's some
• 29:14
  work there. So it's not pulling directly
• 29:16
  from just the Blizzard team. They they get to streamline some
• 29:19
  of that work as well. That's.
• 29:21
  Actually fair that you can ask for, it's a lot of the like.
• 29:23
  So that's it. I'm, I'm excited to see what it
• 29:25
  is. Oh yeah.
• 29:29
  No, I, I think it'll be cool. I just, I, I worry constantly
• 29:34
  ever since I started learning about the games industry, I wake
• 29:36
  up every day and I'm just like, I hope the devs don't have too
• 29:40
  much crunch today. So every single thing that comes
• 29:43
  out, I'm like, but is this going to make the devs have more
• 29:44
  crunch? And I'm sure that if I could
• 29:46
  actually talk to devs, they'd be like, we all knew the industry
• 29:50
  like what? Calm down.
• 29:53
  It's fine, but I worry about them.
• 29:54
  So if you're a dev. I mean.
• 29:57
  I'm so sorry that I make you, I make you work on these games.
• 30:02
  I mean, yeah, there's a little bit of like, you know, a little
• 30:05
  bit of what you're getting into, but you still don't want like
• 30:07
  it's like I understand that teaching is a thankless job for
• 30:12
  so many if people, and I appreciate it, appreciate
• 30:15
  teaching. And I I'm sure a lot of people
• 30:18
  who get into teaching know that there there's some of that in
• 30:21
  store. I still don't want it for them.
• 30:23
  Like I don't want it to be good for them.
• 30:25
  Same thing with the 10s. Oh yeah.
• 30:26
  Like go ahead John as. As somebody who had a career in
• 30:32
  an industry where it was often said to us by superiors and
• 30:39
  media personnel, well, you knew what you were signing up for.
• 30:44
  Nobody ever knows what they're signing up for.
• 30:48
  So the devs, until you've actually been in that situation
• 30:51
  where you're being told this is what needs to happen and this is
• 30:53
  the hours. And by the way, regardless of
• 30:56
  the outcome of the game, you might get laid off.
• 30:57
  Yeah, I don't think I do. I feel for the devs.
• 31:00
  I hope they are doing their best, but I definitely don't.
• 31:04
  I I I don't think any of them would say to you, don't worry,
• 31:07
  Lex. We knew what we were signing up
• 31:08
  for. I think they appreciate your
• 31:12
  support. Well they have it.
• 31:17
  I'll go to war for devs. Just DM me.
• 31:19
  I'll go to war for you. That's right, well the devs
• 31:23
  aren't the only people getting report, sorry, rather getting
• 31:26
  support. We have also got a 5 star review
• 31:31
  this week from this one's from the Canadian store.
• 31:35
  Sean, can I pass this one to you?
• 31:37
  You can, but it's a lot more fun when we make Lex do them.
• 31:40
  OK, so we got from SMO 123456 in Canada.
• 31:47
  The title of their review is Where have you been all my life?
• 31:52
  Musing, informative and gives me my well fix on my way to work.
• 31:56
  Great production quality. Also appreciate the Canadian
• 31:59
  content. MO, thank you for this five star
• 32:02
  review of For Azeroth and we'll see you at Tim Horton's.
• 32:07
  I don't actually go to Tim Morton.
• 32:08
  I'm in Canadian. I don't watch hockey or go to
• 32:10
  Tim Morton's. I'm like the worst Canadian and
• 32:12
  I'm a bit of a listen. Tim's ain't Canadian anymore,
• 32:15
  man. I got bought up by some things.
• 32:18
  Forget Tim's, I'll see you at the Canadian Tire.
• 32:21
  Still Canadian? Yeah.
• 32:25
  With that said, let's go to the big story.
• 32:27
  And I, I've been pushing through the news because there was so
• 32:30
  much in this story that we are not going to cover it in full.
• 32:35
  Guys, make sure you check out the four Azeroth show notes.
• 32:39
  I've got links to the interviews because this is the Wowhead
• 32:45
  interview with Ian Hazakosis and Morgan Day.
• 32:48
  And as much as I give Wowhead crap for splitting up everything
• 32:55
  into five different articles, this one's valid, guys.
• 32:59
  There's a lot in here and I'm glad that they broke it down
• 33:02
  into different segments. This was a very information rich
• 33:07
  interview, so make sure you guys check it out in its entirety.
• 33:10
  We are not going to even try to to do a synopsis here.
• 33:14
  We're just going to be talking about the things that were said
• 33:17
  and what we think that implies as we go into this new era in
• 33:22
  the world, in the war within. So we each had takeaways.
• 33:26
  Lex and Sean have put their takeaways in there.
• 33:29
  I was lazy. I didn't throw my takeaways in,
• 33:32
  but we're going to have a conversation here.
• 33:35
  Lex, let's start with your take away on this interview.
• 33:39
  Let's not start with mine. Let's start with someone else.
• 33:41
  I think the mind might the most I I I primarily noticed one
• 33:44
  little turn I have with you. So I think somebody else first
• 33:48
  because I can then be negative and I can get fluffy.
• 33:50
  OK, cool. I also have takes about the
• 33:54
  thing that you put down. That's why I didn't put it in
• 33:56
  mind, but we'll just get some combined takes.
• 33:59
  So over. I just want to say overall,
• 34:00
  First off, overall, I stand by my statement that this week was
• 34:04
  WS for Blizzard. This interview as a whole, when
• 34:06
  taken from start to finish, is a combined victory.
• 34:10
  Ian, has it cost us and Morgan Day sitting down to talk about
• 34:14
  the game and the direction and lessons they've learned and how
• 34:16
  they're listening to the community and the changes they
• 34:18
  want to make for the better and for the different for Warcraft.
• 34:21
  So as a whole, if you sit down, you read this interview or you
• 34:25
  watch any of the myriad number of videos on YouTube covering
• 34:28
  it, it is a massive win. But now we're going to cover it
• 34:31
  here and and we're going to have some cakes.
• 34:33
  Some of them are going to be spicy.
• 34:35
  I I. I got.
• 34:37
  Before you dive into it, I I just want to say that like this
• 34:41
  interview is really what I wanted.
• 34:44
  If I had one criticism of this interview that overrides
• 34:47
  anything else is I would have loved this interview way
• 34:51
  earlier. Like this interview informs
• 34:54
  feedback. This interview tells everybody
• 34:58
  who's looking at like all the patch notes and data mining
• 35:02
  stuff and like going through every little little line item
• 35:06
  what in the world the team is thinking when they make these
• 35:09
  changes. This is so much better than a
• 35:11
  developer note in a particular patch note.
• 35:15
  This is like the water coolers that we used to get back in the
• 35:18
  day of like, OK, so like here's what we're thinking about, like
• 35:23
  how we're going to take this system and here's why we're
• 35:27
  going to be making a bunch of changes and they're all related
• 35:30
  because they all go towards this new philosophy.
• 35:33
  A lot of times I will see people look at something and be like,
• 35:38
  oh, they're not really doing the bring the player, not the spec.
• 35:44
  They're not really doing the whatever catch phrase Ian may
• 35:50
  have said, guys bring the player, not the spec was back in
• 35:54
  BC. You're talking about something
• 35:56
  1617 years ago. The may have developed that
• 36:01
  theory a little bit further, may have gone too far and brought it
• 36:04
  back or whatever I like. I've seen too many people who
• 36:08
  will say those catch phrases and then be like the I got you
• 36:12
  'cause you said this back in 2006.
• 36:17
  And so giving giving current thought process is so strong
• 36:21
  here. Yeah.
• 36:22
  OK. So I just want to dive in here.
• 36:24
  We had to decide as a team whether we were going to sort of
• 36:28
  paraphrase each section and give a little some thoughts on it or
• 36:31
  cherry pick sections or one of us, the best of us, suggested a
• 36:37
  theatrical read through of it with each of us adopting the
• 36:40
  role of one of the individuals. And I actually think that's the
• 36:43
  one we should have gone with. I would have loved to have been
• 36:46
  squishy and hear Lexus version of Ian Hazacostis and Manny's
• 36:50
  Morgan Day, but I digress. We ended up falling on rough
• 36:55
  synopsis and paraphrasing. I want to talk about rating
• 36:58
  first 'cause it's the first topic in the event and there
• 37:02
  were three major questions that came up sort of in the rating
• 37:06
  section. And it was lessons learned about
• 37:08
  private auras and how they felt about gearing and the difficulty
• 37:13
  of the raid. And basically they said it's
• 37:20
  there's too much for me to, I can't like gloss this.
• 37:22
  So I'm going to do like a quick one and then I'll see if anybody
• 37:24
  has any thoughts on it. Private ores.
• 37:26
  They talked about private ores and lessons learned.
• 37:28
  And Ian and Ian's thoughts on it are there's some that did really
• 37:32
  well and some they they handled poorly.
• 37:34
  And the example he gave is when the mechanic was a personal
• 37:38
  mechanic that a player had to run out from the group and deal
• 37:41
  with it on their own. Private ores worked well.
• 37:44
  I think as a community, everybody agrees with that.
• 37:47
  You could make the argument, and most do, that you don't need to
• 37:50
  put those things in private orders because those weren't
• 37:52
  being solved by weak orders anyway.
• 37:54
  But those, those are examples of times when it was good.
• 37:58
  And he said times when it was bad, when it was a communal
• 38:00
  organized event where we had to then develop a macro to solve a
• 38:06
  puzzle faster, like the North Aryan Hertz or the Ferrac
• 38:09
  intermission phase one. Blizzard's credit again, Ian
• 38:11
  mentioned this. They identified that that was an
• 38:14
  issue and they removed the private orders from Farrakhan
• 38:17
  and mission Phase 1, which made that fight so much smoother, so
• 38:20
  much better to play as a player. And he they said, they both said
• 38:23
  Morgan Day and Ian both said going into the war with him.
• 38:26
  We identify this. We want to try and learn more if
• 38:29
  we want. We're not getting rid of private
• 38:30
  orders. We like them and Morgan explains
• 38:33
  why they like them, but we like them.
• 38:35
  We're going to learn more into the this is a thing that is a
• 38:38
  personal responsibility and not a red wide organization thing
• 38:41
  and away from the red waves organization thing.
• 38:43
  And we've seen that in the raid testing with Sister Christian,
• 38:48
  the Princess Nexus fight with the lines, the four purple
• 38:53
  lines. And if you're one of the ones
• 38:54
  targeted, your line is red. That'll be that is I'm pretty
• 38:57
  sure it's a private aura and they're visually they've made
• 39:00
  that work. Morgan brought up.
• 39:02
  There's so many swirls in fights now because it went from being a
• 39:05
  type of mechanic they would use occasionally to being the
• 39:08
  baselimer they had to start because everything was already
• 39:11
  solved by weak auras. So they were just like, just
• 39:13
  throw more swirls at it. So they're going to be able to
• 39:15
  get away from that as well. And overall, I, I'm, I was
• 39:20
  coming into this prior to this interview, I was heavily anti
• 39:24
  private aura because of that reason that the ones that it
• 39:27
  works good on, you don't need it.
• 39:28
  And the ones that it doesn't work good on are cumbersome to
• 39:32
  see them say and identify. Yeah, we, I, we, we recognize
• 39:36
  that. And we're going to develop more
• 39:37
  towards the latter and away from the former.
• 39:40
  And if it opens up more development choices and more
• 39:43
  mechanic choices in the boss fight, I'm all for it.
• 39:46
  Let's let's go. Pravador is in the raid, but it
• 39:49
  shows what they're learning. Do you guys have any thoughts on
• 39:50
  that? I'm sorry.
• 39:51
  This this interview is so good. Yeah, no, that that was I of
• 39:56
  feelings about progress as I think, but like reading that, I
• 39:59
  was like, Oh yeah, like if every that Sean said in when we were
• 40:02
  talking about this, I feel like it's being responded to and it's
• 40:04
  being heard, which is good. Instead they are listening.
• 40:07
  It makes me think they are taking feedback and they are
• 40:09
  doing a good job of anyone trying to put that all together.
• 40:12
  Sorry, man. What were you saying?
• 40:13
  Oh. No, I mean like, yeah, like it.
• 40:15
  It definitely follows what you two are saying.
• 40:18
  I think that they have to be careful about it because running
• 40:22
  something out of the the team is, is something that yes, you
• 40:30
  could have a private aura and hey, we don't need it or yes, we
• 40:34
  definitely do. And there's so many different
• 40:37
  things that can adjust that flat out.
• 40:39
  We had an Altherian fight which had the private aura of run the
• 40:42
  thing out of the the arena. And unfortunately, the thing
• 40:47
  that you had to run out had such a huge area that it denied that
• 40:53
  you had to run it to very specific places and people
• 40:56
  couldn't run to the same place. And it happened so fast that
• 40:59
  like it felt like a week or was needed and it was one of the
• 41:03
  most infinite ones for that entire macro thing in order to
• 41:07
  get around it. So like it's like when they gave
• 41:10
  that example, I'm like you're kind of glazing over it a little
• 41:13
  bit and I. Feel like I just have to
• 41:16
  interject. I feel like the hearts on
• 41:19
  Naltherian fall under the group organization as if not it,
• 41:24
  that's not an individual as a mechanic to run out.
• 41:26
  That's a this is a thing required by the raid team to
• 41:30
  coordinate. I think it fell under that
• 41:32
  category and I'm pretty sure that's where they they see that
• 41:34
  as well because it did require the coordination of the entire
• 41:36
  raid team to move into the free spaces and for people to move
• 41:39
  out. OK, that I'm pretty sure that's
• 41:42
  where that would fall down. That wouldn't fall under the
• 41:44
  this is a personal responsibility one.
• 41:46
  The I think that would be under the.
• 41:47
  This is a group coordination one, but.
• 41:49
  Like if something, if you had another ability that required
• 41:53
  people to like run out super fast, that's still a personal
• 41:57
  responsibility thing and have and like it becomes like a, hey,
• 42:02
  like, yes, weak ORS are not necessary if you do enough
• 42:10
  telegraphing, right? So that people know what's
• 42:13
  happening and can react quickly enough.
• 42:16
  But also it's a matter of like how much time they give it, what
• 42:21
  level of difficulty we're in. Because like something like
• 42:24
  those arrows that we see on the Nexus Princess, right?
• 42:29
  I think work on the Nexus Princess because she's so late
• 42:33
  in the raid. If that was an opening boss
• 42:35
  thing, or if that showed up, let's say on LFR, right, I
• 42:39
  would, I would call foul on that.
• 42:42
  So I think that in some cases it's more than just what the
• 42:47
  mechanic is. It's what's surrounding the
• 42:49
  mechanic, how soon the mechanic shows up in a raid in a, a
• 42:52
  fight. But these are of course, are all
• 42:54
  things that they they know. It's just that like I hate when
• 42:57
  it kind of gets glazed over so quickly that people start
• 43:00
  drawing false conclusions from that.
• 43:04
  And I, I wish it's, it felt like the, the the interviewer could
• 43:09
  have followed up to break that down a little bit more.
• 43:12
  OK. It's I feel like we're in
• 43:14
  bizarre world because I am normally the one who is anti
• 43:17
  private or and, and, and and you're the pro now the devs are
• 43:21
  gonna don't worry. The devs got it.
• 43:24
  We just completely swapped. OK, well, let's go to Part 2 for
• 43:28
  you. All right, part.
• 43:30
  So this is Part 2. It's all sort of still part of
• 43:32
  raid, but I'm going to lump all of this into one.
• 43:34
  In the interview, they talked about gearing, progression in
• 43:37
  the raid and difficulty of the raid and having the raid feel
• 43:42
  easier over time. It's three very nuanced points
• 43:46
  that they talk about. My summary is just going to be
• 43:48
  about all of it sort of lumped in together, and I definitely
• 43:51
  recommend reading it. And basically what Blizzard said
• 43:53
  is, yeah, we recognized there was some issues with the
• 43:56
  difficulty of a mere Drisil. We also recognize there's some
• 43:59
  issues with gear, people gearing out early on and then having no
• 44:03
  upgrades later on, and then there being no soft nerve to the
• 44:06
  raid. And again, they give all kinds
• 44:09
  of nuance to this. So please go, I recommend, go
• 44:11
  read it because they break down. There's a lot more nuance, but
• 44:14
  the the big thing I wanted to touch on is they mentioned that
• 44:17
  in season one of the War Within, they're going to bring back a
• 44:20
  mechanic similar to the reorigination array that you've
• 44:24
  seen in old Deer, which is a stacking damage and healing
• 44:27
  buff. Do a player in the raid only and
• 44:32
  capping at 20% right now. Currently they're capping at 20%
• 44:36
  and the way you gain stacks like in an ice crown citadel, you
• 44:39
  just gained it over time. But the way they're looking at
• 44:41
  gaining stacks is by using the questing system.
• 44:43
  I imagine it'll be like our, you know, Val Drakon helping Val
• 44:48
  Drakon accord or whatever, whatever that's called the loam
• 44:51
  Nippin one be a smelly friend or whatever it was.
• 44:53
  I imagine it'll be that that just gives you power in the
• 44:56
  raid. And again, another huge W
• 44:58
  because for teams that are working on farm, once your gear
• 45:01
  is capped out before you feel the last boss, you would like
• 45:03
  the farm to get easier teams that are working to get those
• 45:07
  kills. This also does the same thing
• 45:10
  because gearing is, and I think right now at a good pace, but it
• 45:14
  does typically boat strip when you get to the final couple
• 45:18
  bosses and it's nice to see them recognize the difficulty.
• 45:22
  Irv was too steep in a mirror or so, and in the interview they
• 45:25
  talk about adjustments to that as well.
• 45:27
  It's everything is that they're saying that they see in the
• 45:30
  raid, that they're looking to make adjustments, in my opinion,
• 45:33
  are all really good things. I I'm sorry.
• 45:38
  I'm sorry, like, come on, I I get what they're saying, but
• 45:43
  unfortunately we saw the absolute huge jump in difficulty
• 45:48
  in Vault of the incarnates going to Razzageth.
• 45:51
  Razzageth felt like a completely different raid in terms of
• 45:53
  difficulty when you went to the last boss.
• 45:56
  And I don't think that was like just in mythic.
• 45:59
  That was true in heroic, that was true in normal.
• 46:01
  I don't know about Alafar. I don't touch Alafar, but the
• 46:05
  jump in difficulty for that last boss huge.
• 46:08
  Then they went into the avarice and the difficulty was all over
• 46:16
  the place in that you had like a fairly tough wall boss with, I
• 46:21
  forget the name of the boss, but it's the one that threw the
• 46:23
  mines and had all the traps. I was a scar, right?
• 46:28
  And then you went into the absolute face roll right after
• 46:32
  it and it just felt weird. But then right after that,
• 46:36
  suddenly the difficulty jumped right back up again.
• 46:38
  And so like them not be them saying, yeah, we're going to be
• 46:41
  better about the difficulty curve.
• 46:43
  You don't seem to be learning your lesson throughout an entire
• 46:46
  expansion. And you have said it before.
• 46:48
  We'll see how it goes. I'm going to take that one with
• 46:50
  a grain of salt. I do think I could be wrong.
• 46:54
  My take away from rating in dragline is that we were having
• 46:59
  a little bit of an issue of the devs potentially listening to
• 47:02
  people a little bit too much, right, Because that's kind of
• 47:04
  what I was feeling is that like at first everyone was like, oh
• 47:06
  God, this is so easy. And then like boosted things up
• 47:11
  and they boosted it like, like it, it, it felt like they were
• 47:13
  maybe being overly reactive to the community, which is why we
• 47:16
  were seeing these like massive shifts in difficulty between
• 47:21
  race. So I, I'm, I'm hopeful out of
• 47:23
  something they are going to be able to work out.
• 47:25
  I I will say like yes, big difficulty spike, but that's
• 47:28
  like, and boss is usually off right, Like Sylvanus with a huge
• 47:31
  difficulty spike from the rest of the raid.
• 47:34
  Denazrios was a huge like honestly, everything in in
• 47:37
  shadow links was a massive like there was just like through
• 47:40
  going through. And then it gets a little bit
• 47:41
  harder than the last few bosses, but you can still mostly push
• 47:43
  through and then you get the final boss.
• 47:44
  It's like, hey, now we're going to start making jokes about how
• 47:47
  the top teams are doing 200 pulls on this right, which I
• 47:51
  like. I won't act.
• 47:52
  This might be an unpopular opinion.
• 47:54
  I don't really think have that, you know, the fine, the the the
• 47:57
  rest of me, the process of getting progression and that's
• 47:59
  keeping you going, that's keeping the energy high.
• 48:01
  And then the final boss, like usually you're able to get
• 48:04
  through a few heroic bosses before you can kill the final
• 48:06
  boss on normal, at least in my team.
• 48:08
  And I kind of like that. I kind of like how that like
• 48:10
  really intense challenge reminds you what the rate is about.
• 48:14
  You know, the other opinion that other people like a little bit
• 48:16
  more than normal. But yeah, no, I, I hear that
• 48:20
  what you're saying, Manny. I'm not saying that that's not
• 48:22
  unreavable. And I'm also the queen of
• 48:26
  continuing to be suspicious of Blizzard until they actually
• 48:28
  give me what I want, until they actually prove themselves.
• 48:31
  But I'm I'm hopeful. I think that with avarice and
• 48:39
  less so since they had another tier behind it, but this entire
• 48:44
  gear upgrade system with crests and and flight stones and that's
• 48:47
  now continuing to the war within.
• 48:49
  That was a big thing in terms of like causing people to like no
• 48:54
  longer get any upgrades from the content they were doing.
• 48:57
  Because you would, like, run through Mythic Plus and you'd
• 49:00
  get all of these upgrades. And by the time you're like, up
• 49:03
  against the last boss, it's like, what's on your loop table?
• 49:06
  And unless it was perfectly itemized or like, you know, an
• 49:10
  actual freaking legendary for those who are lucky enough to
• 49:12
  get the legendary, yeah, it was. There wasn't really anything
• 49:16
  there for you. And I, I felt that that was a
• 49:19
  bit of a misstep that they are now addressing where we have
• 49:22
  seen, hey, the last couple of bosses drop stuff beyond the
• 49:26
  mythic cap. So I think they are making those
• 49:31
  adjustments. So I don't want to sit here and
• 49:32
  be like completely the like Sultan of salt here.
• 49:36
  I just want to say that like, yeah, there are sometimes where
• 49:38
  it's like, like, I, I want to see that actually play out.
• 49:43
  And I do want to say that Dragonflight did have this issue
• 49:48
  because we got rid of borrowed power.
• 49:50
  Every time you look back at like shadow lands and BFA and being
• 49:55
  able to upgrade and Legion before that and being able to
• 49:58
  upgrade beyond the tier, it was because we had artifact power as
• 50:04
  a right. Just all the stuff that we put
• 50:07
  into the covenants that kept boosting us week after week,
• 50:09
  even if we weren't getting upgrades.
• 50:11
  And I guess they're now having to go like, wait a second, how
• 50:14
  do we still get that constant progression week after week
• 50:19
  without it coming from strictly gear?
• 50:22
  And yeah, this Oh dear sort of reorigination call back thing.
• 50:29
  It's inelegant. I like.
• 50:31
  It, I think thematically, well, thematically, it's like the
• 50:34
  people that you're helping as you quest through their forces
• 50:37
  are helping you in the fight. You know what I mean?
• 50:39
  You're getting stronger because you're getting deport from from
• 50:41
  your team, from the, from the, the factions you've been
• 50:44
  assisting. You know, the lamplighters are
• 50:45
  gaining, giving you support. I, I, I like it.
• 50:47
  I think it's, I think it's a good fix.
• 50:48
  I I. Hope that it's just a straight
• 50:50
  damage increase cuz if it's anything that like if it's like
• 50:55
  a let's say a haste buff, I'm gonna feel really weird going
• 50:58
  between raid to mythic plus and then my character just feels
• 51:01
  different. So I just hope it's just
• 51:03
  strictly, hey, I hit harder or the bosses are weakened,
• 51:07
  whatever it is, cuz cuz I, I just don't wanna completely have
• 51:12
  to shift like, oh, what am I doing here as soon as I step
• 51:14
  outside of the raid. But I do think it is good
• 51:16
  because when you move to the next year, at least, it's not
• 51:19
  going to mean that we have a power creep into the next year
• 51:21
  as well. Yeah, and it also says it it
• 51:25
  carries across your buff, carries across your war band.
• 51:27
  So if you do the quests to get the buff on your main and then
• 51:31
  you swap mains or you run an alt raid or something, you have the
• 51:34
  buff still on your alt as well. So it's account wide wait.
• 51:40
  I do have one thing because of what you just said.
• 51:43
  Please have a catch up guys. If we come to the game late, if
• 51:48
  somebody didn't get get to raid the first couple of weeks, I
• 51:51
  like I just want them to be able to do a quick couple of quests
• 51:56
  or something to then get the as much bus as anybody else rather
• 52:01
  than feeling oh shoot, I came late and I'm going to be behind
• 52:04
  the rest of the team. Oh.
• 52:05
  God, I didn't even think of that.
• 52:06
  I imagine it'll be a a a a. It'll probably be a growing cap
• 52:11
  like they do with crests and flight stones and everything.
• 52:13
  When I flight stones with crests I can't imagine it wouldn't be
• 52:16
  that like a a cap that. Although if it's quest based
• 52:19
  maybe I don't know. It like just all sucks.
• 52:23
  You remember in season one of Dragonfly, it was do a quest to
• 52:27
  unlock your crafted stuff and then if you came in late, you
• 52:30
  could just do the quests and then if you came in quite late,
• 52:36
  it was, hey, just give me them all.
• 52:40
  Yeah. So maybe.
• 52:40
  They'll be like that and I think that would be the best.
• 52:42
  Thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 52:45
  Cool. All right, next on the docket
• 52:48
  was Mythic Plus. And again, we're not going to go
• 52:49
  through the whole interview. There's a lot of the interview
• 52:51
  below this, but the raid and the Mythic Plus section were the
• 52:53
  mediest and I thought until now the ones with the most hopeful
• 52:59
  stuff in them. I think Manny and I are able to
• 53:03
  switch roles though, because I'm I'm pretty sure that's what's
• 53:07
  gonna happen. But we're in some mythic plus.
• 53:09
  They talked a lot about Mythic plus and Lex, you had a point
• 53:12
  about Mythic plus. Do you want to talk about that
• 53:13
  now? Do you want to dive into OH?
• 53:16
  Yeah, I have have quite a few points about mythic.
• 53:19
  I will say that this section I was like not very happy with,
• 53:24
  but I'm I'm I'm notoriously not a big mythic plus players.
• 53:27
  So I'm happy to be told that I just don't understand what
• 53:30
  mythic plus players think and feel free to simply tell me.
• 53:34
  I don't know anything and I'll still talk.
• 53:36
  I love, I actually. I actually have a question I
• 53:39
  wanted to specifically ask you, so this is good.
• 53:44
  Right now or like after we talk about this?
• 53:46
  No, after. Yeah, it's from reading this.
• 53:49
  I'll ask you after. So mythic plus a lot of at least
• 53:52
  like a lot of what they were focusing on was how affixes are
• 53:57
  going to be interacting with the mythic plus in general that
• 54:01
  behind that the Wowhead interviewer whose name I missed
• 54:04
  Manny, you said who it was. It's probably in the article
• 54:07
  somewhere. It's.
• 54:08
  Squishy. We like squish shout out.
• 54:12
  You made me laugh by saying at this point, it seems that the
• 54:15
  closer we get to an affix that does nothing, the happier people
• 54:18
  are. And I'm like, shout out, bestie,
• 54:20
  you're sorry. But so the just we're talking
• 54:24
  about how they think of acts as as much characters to add
• 54:29
  difficulty, to add variety, right?
• 54:30
  The points to kind of shake things up and and make it
• 54:34
  interesting to the players, which I hear.
• 54:38
  But they also are saying that they want to get some of the
• 54:42
  affixes on interacting with the mythic plus mechanics.
• 54:46
  And so I think they've kind of shot them foot there, right?
• 54:49
  Because if they're simultaneous, like when I was reading this and
• 54:52
  they they were talking about mythic affixes of the way quote
• 54:55
  alter the puzzle. I actually that seemed really
• 54:58
  cool. And like, yeah, I can see a way
• 55:00
  that these affixes would like interact with a dungeon to make
• 55:03
  it interesting. And I also have not been like
• 55:06
  beta or alpha. So I don't know how current.
• 55:07
  Last time they were just like under geared, so nobody was able
• 55:10
  to feel how the affixes were doing or were working.
• 55:13
  So maybe they're weird little percentages of damage of
• 55:16
  different things go off, but I do feel like if you're not going
• 55:21
  to allow traffic to interact with the mechanics of the
• 55:23
  dungeon, then all have left is building faculty, right, Like
• 55:27
  all you have left is like different things harder because
• 55:29
  it's like these numbers are higher and these numbers are
• 55:31
  lower. So I felt like they were kind of
• 55:34
  and I realized I want to so ishmice, which I never do.
• 55:37
  I felt like they were kind of missing.
• 55:40
  The they. They.
• 55:42
  Didn't I? I didn't feel like that made
• 55:44
  sense. I didn't feel like they actually
• 55:45
  had a way forward to do that. OK, I dig it.
• 55:51
  I dig it. So I want to ask you my question
• 55:52
  in this opening statement. They're talking about affixes.
• 55:55
  Affixes are like super big point of conversation now in the
• 55:59
  community among people at the low end of Mythic plus and the
• 56:03
  the absolute high end. It's all we're talking about.
• 56:05
  And they said, you know, we recognize that there's some
• 56:07
  stuff going on here. We're not done iterating.
• 56:10
  We have more changes to come up. We're not going to make any
• 56:12
  announcements today, but we are going to have some new changes
• 56:15
  in the upcoming beta builds. Check the forms, watch for stuff
• 56:17
  like that, which I hate that answer, but it tells us that
• 56:21
  they are working towards something.
• 56:23
  But one of the statements that Ian made is that he understands
• 56:26
  how affixes like bolstering and bursting, how affixes in the
• 56:32
  inject variance and at the highest end of Mythic plus
• 56:36
  variance is bad because it limits the weeks that you can do
• 56:39
  your absolute best. You can do your best on a
• 56:42
  bursting volcanic week, then every other week feels worse, so
• 56:46
  they become dead weeks so you don't play.
• 56:49
  So they said they're working on a system to limit the variants
• 56:53
  for the high end of Mythic Plus, which we don't know what that
• 56:57
  is. They haven't said it.
• 56:58
  To me, it sounds like controlled affixes or limited affixes in
• 57:03
  the higher end of Mythic Plus. But he said that for the people
• 57:07
  that do one key a week for their vaults or just do keys to fill
• 57:10
  their vault, but they enjoy affixes because it gives them
• 57:14
  variation in the keys. And this is my question, Lex,
• 57:17
  because in my mind, if you're only doing one dungeon a week or
• 57:21
  you're only doing 8 dungeons a week, are you doing enough
• 57:23
  dungeons to get bored with the selection?
• 57:26
  And I guess my question to you directly is, do you enjoy the
• 57:30
  affixes because they make the dungeons different, Sean?
• 57:34
  I, when I read that part of the interview, I literally, if
• 57:39
  you're my boss, stop listening. Had to like stand up and pace
• 57:42
  and talk to myself for 30 minutes because I thought like,
• 57:45
  I was just like so unhappy with that.
• 57:47
  That is exactly what I was, what I what I was upset about.
• 57:51
  I OK, I am, I will say I am a very low level mythic plus
• 57:57
  player, right? I only do it with my group.
• 57:59
  I I really like I'll, I'll do like a countable number of
• 58:03
  mythic pluses a season, right? So it's possible that I'm not
• 58:06
  actually who like the, the, the target audience.
• 58:10
  I will say, though, one of the reasons that mythic plus is
• 58:15
  scary to me is because the affect lend so much variance and
• 58:21
  because I don't play a lot of Mick plus, I never feel like I
• 58:24
  can fully under like I if you said like, oh, left bursting,
• 58:27
  what does it do? No, and again, this probably
• 58:31
  means that I'm a lower level player.
• 58:32
  In fact, this definitely means that I'm a lower level player.
• 58:34
  But that means, for example, pugging is really scary for me
• 58:38
  because I don't know what's going to happen in the dungeon
• 58:42
  and I don't know what the current Strat is like what the
• 58:44
  current meta is. And so I don't know if I'm going
• 58:46
  to start getting yelled at in the middle of a mythic.
• 58:49
  I didn't realize that actually a healer mechanic and like my team
• 58:52
  was teasing it or like, you know, and that makes it really,
• 58:55
  really stressful. So I thought the the idea that
• 59:02
  affixes are too frustrating and complicated and learn too much
• 59:05
  variance and make it too difficult for the people who
• 59:07
  play plus all of the time, right?
• 59:10
  That is their number one thing that is that is what they're
• 59:12
  doing in the game. That's too hard for them.
• 59:15
  But the affixes are at a reasonable level for those of us
• 59:18
  who don't play a lot. Like is missing the point to
• 59:20
  such a massive degree that like I had a moment where I was like,
• 59:24
  I take it all back and think this is fixable.
• 59:26
  Get rid of affixes like don't understand what's going on, they
• 59:29
  don't understand the player base.
• 59:30
  These should just be removed. So no I don't affix.
• 59:34
  I would much prefer plus if affix didn't exist and I am very
• 59:39
  concerned of how they are putting mythic based on what the
• 59:43
  sentence in. OK, Manny, would you say I think
• 59:47
  you're somewhere like between Lex and I, you get Keystone hero
• 59:50
  every season. Would you say you fall into that
• 59:53
  category of like a vault filler type Mythic plus runner I?
• 59:58
  Go between being a vault vault filler as like the mid range of
• 1:00:03
  where I am to like I'm loving this.
• 1:00:05
  Let me just keep playing. Let me just keep playing.
• 1:00:08
  Let me go hunt down like the exact best in slots.
• 1:00:11
  All run the same dungeon. Eight times on top of the eight
• 1:00:14
  that I need to fill in the dungeon with.
• 1:00:17
  So I fluctuate between them. I have had times where it's
• 1:00:22
  like, geez, this week, you know what, this sucks.
• 1:00:27
  And I have had times where I'm like a sweet deal, like this is
• 1:00:30
  the week where I like switch this around and I get to do
• 1:00:33
  this, this and like, oh man, I'll put down my my totem and
• 1:00:38
  I'll remove the afflicted and the healer will love me and all
• 1:00:42
  that, that sort of stuff. And initially with a lot of the
• 1:00:50
  and I mean like initially in terms of Legion BFA and a little
• 1:00:54
  bit into shadow lands, right, I was always liking, OK, let me
• 1:00:59
  switch around my kit to see what I can do to make things worse or
• 1:01:03
  better for the situation. And so there was like, this is
• 1:01:09
  my build for Tyrannical week. This is my build for the
• 1:01:12
  fortified week. This is my build for when
• 1:01:15
  afflicted shows up. This is the talents that I want
• 1:01:17
  to go into for for this. And so that was something that I
• 1:01:23
  really enjoyed doing. I really enjoyed engaging with
• 1:01:27
  that. We're going to have a further
• 1:01:28
  conversation. We're going to be talking about
• 1:01:30
  the changes that they have done to utility.
• 1:01:33
  I talked like I remember playing back in Legion and affixes
• 1:01:39
  weren't really that big of a thing.
• 1:01:40
  The the scary ones was like necrotic because your tank would
• 1:01:44
  suddenly have to start running and kiting and they hated it or
• 1:01:47
  something like that. And really what I only cared
• 1:01:53
  about was can I bring the damage?
• 1:01:55
  Can we do the biggest pulls and can we clear the dungeon the
• 1:01:59
  fastest possible? And I, and so when I'm in that
• 1:02:03
  mindset, in my opinion, that's where the high end is.
• 1:02:09
  And it's like, it's not even, hey, can I defeat these affixes?
• 1:02:15
  Is this dungeon something that I can put together to stuff to do
• 1:02:21
  right? It is.
• 1:02:23
  I did a 26, a 36, whatever last week and I know because of all
• 1:02:30
  the theory crafting I've done or the experience I've had over the
• 1:02:33
  last how many seasons that I cannot hit that 36 this this
• 1:02:38
  week. So what's even the point, right?
• 1:02:41
  People will be warming up on keys that I can't even imagine
• 1:02:45
  right. And so the affixes aren't an
• 1:02:47
  interesting flair that I get to like tackle.
• 1:02:51
  It's a hindrance to what the challenge actually is.
• 1:02:56
  And so that's the breakdown between people who are engaged
• 1:02:59
  with affixes and the people that do any affix that does anything
• 1:03:02
  other than increase DPS. Go look at like encoded or or or
• 1:03:07
  all those stuff that were Kiss curse in shadow lands are
• 1:03:11
  actively hate hateful to their experience and I think that's
• 1:03:15
  what they're talking about. That is.
• 1:03:18
  So that's exactly what they're talking about.
• 1:03:20
  But I want to know how you feel I.
• 1:03:22
  I engage like mad sometimes and hate it on other times so I've
• 1:03:26
  I've run the gauntlet. Right, OK, so I need to I have
• 1:03:30
  asked go ahead. Oh, I was going to say.
• 1:03:32
  So one thing I'm kind of getting a conversation is that maybe
• 1:03:34
  actually Blizzard does know what they're talking about.
• 1:03:37
  Maybe for the like me, that's why they'd make 0 so much higher
• 1:03:39
  so that I wouldn't even deal with a timer and I'd have to
• 1:03:41
  deal with an affix for a very long time.
• 1:03:43
  For somebody like Sean, they, you know, pulled down, they're
• 1:03:45
  pulled on the affixes at the highest level they can grind.
• 1:03:48
  And for somebody like Manny are actually people who do enjoy
• 1:03:51
  that man. And that kind of in between is
• 1:03:53
  actually really positive. So maybe I'm the problem and
• 1:03:56
  maybe everything's about me and maybe my way of playing is not
• 1:03:58
  the way that everyone likes to play allegedly.
• 1:04:00
  But I'm sorry, Sean, you go. No, I don't think that because I
• 1:04:03
  agree. I don't think, I don't think
• 1:04:05
  affixes. I think everything trickles
• 1:04:07
  down. I'm a big fan except economics,
• 1:04:09
  but I'm a big fan of the way that it trickles down to the
• 1:04:12
  mythic plastine. That other thing's a scam.
• 1:04:14
  Don't believe it. And something I've noticed
• 1:04:18
  because I have asked other friends because I I was
• 1:04:19
  incredulous. I was like nobody, there's oops,
• 1:04:22
  sorry, there's nobody who likes affixes.
• 1:04:25
  Nobody enjoys these. Nobody wakes up on a Tuesday
• 1:04:27
  morning and goes, yeah, bolstering this week.
• 1:04:30
  Nobody does that. But then I found out that I have
• 1:04:33
  some friends, many included, who liked incorporeal, who liked
• 1:04:37
  afflicted, who like entangling, and the common thing that all of
• 1:04:43
  them had is they all played shaman because shaman has a
• 1:04:48
  unique tool kit where they can deal with incorporeal.
• 1:04:51
  They make it non it's non athletics with a shaman in the
• 1:04:54
  group or afflicted, whichever one is the poison clothing totem
• 1:04:56
  one. If you have a shaman that
• 1:04:58
  afflict doesn't exist. The other one, the hex, they get
• 1:05:01
  to engage with it entangling. They run thunder's paws.
• 1:05:04
  It doesn't exist. So shamans have this and I'm a
• 1:05:07
  I'm AI know shamans get a lot of heat and they don't get a lot of
• 1:05:09
  updates right now. I'm a massive fan of shamans all
• 1:05:12
  of not all, but a lot of my good friends are shamans and like
• 1:05:15
  shaman means for life and I love having them in groups.
• 1:05:18
  They're like inflicted in a corporate group.
• 1:05:20
  I don't run a dungeon with a sham.
• 1:05:22
  That's my friend. He's a shaman and he those
• 1:05:24
  affixes don't exist because he's in the group and he seems to
• 1:05:27
  like it because he gets to be the one that saves the day.
• 1:05:31
  But who's not? The shaman doesn't have that
• 1:05:34
  experience. Man, I'm a warrior.
• 1:05:39
  I'm a warrior. I can't do anything to two of
• 1:05:41
  these habits. I will.
• 1:05:45
  Talk about different players who are like engaging with it at at
• 1:05:51
  different levels and how that adjusts to them.
• 1:05:53
  But I also talked to you about players who love their moment of
• 1:05:57
  glory. I think that when you have these
• 1:06:00
  moments, they're fantastic. And I like that affixes lend
• 1:06:05
  themselves to that. I just don't think that they
• 1:06:08
  should be so polarizing. I don't think that you should go
• 1:06:12
  up against an affix. And it's like, I can't do crap
• 1:06:14
  about that. I don't think you should have an
• 1:06:16
  affix where it's like, well, well, this is my time to shine,
• 1:06:20
  except there were four other classes that do 10 other things
• 1:06:23
  better than me and one of and this is one of them.
• 1:06:26
  And so I never have a chance to shine.
• 1:06:28
  So I I really like, I really like when the affixes give me
• 1:06:33
  those hero moments because I'm not going to top the DPS charts.
• 1:06:36
  Shamans are mid at best this season and they were there last
• 1:06:41
  season. And I don't want to talk about
• 1:06:43
  season 2. So I'm not going to top the
• 1:06:46
  damage meters. We go into dungeons, right, and
• 1:06:49
  it's like, hey, guys, I could hit five targets.
• 1:06:51
  Like, congratulations, Manny, we're pulling 35.
• 1:06:55
  I get it. So like, different ways of
• 1:06:58
  challenging the specs I think should be included.
• 1:07:02
  And affixes allow for that. Sometimes they get it wrong, but
• 1:07:05
  they also get damaged tuning wrong.
• 1:07:07
  So every affix, every affix is just as bad as any kind of
• 1:07:12
  tuning. Yeah.
• 1:07:13
  I again, I said I'm, I'm a big shaman fan.
• 1:07:15
  And I think the take away from this part of the interview is
• 1:07:19
  Ian and Morgan both said, we recognize people aren't happy
• 1:07:23
  with where we're at. We're working on it.
• 1:07:25
  Stay tuned for more. And I think that's the best way
• 1:07:27
  to look at it. They're not like sitting back
• 1:07:29
  and going, Yep, dad's done. We've, we've got changes coming
• 1:07:33
  and I think that's good. And fortunately we have some
• 1:07:37
  changes coming that I think are not as good.
• 1:07:38
  And again, it goes back to my love of shamans that I think
• 1:07:42
  this is going to be an issue. I actually think we used to say
• 1:07:46
  mages were the main class of Warcraft.
• 1:07:48
  I'm starting to think through this conversation of the
• 1:07:49
  shamans. No other class can pick
• 1:07:51
  themselves up from the dead and then taunt a boss to save a raid
• 1:07:54
  pole. Just saying.
• 1:07:56
  So on that note, they talked about, and this is the last
• 1:08:00
  piece from the interview that I want to touch on specifically.
• 1:08:02
  The rest of it is is is all good stuff like target capping and
• 1:08:06
  everything. There's all kinds of really good
• 1:08:07
  information in there. But anyway, they said they're
• 1:08:12
  getting So right now in Dragon Flight, when you go into a
• 1:08:15
  dungeon, enemies are are coded that once their cast of an
• 1:08:20
  ability starts, that ability goes on.
• 1:08:23
  If interrupted, that ability goes on cooldown.
• 1:08:25
  And that's if it's interrupted through an interrupt, a
• 1:08:28
  disorient, a displacement, or a stun.
• 1:08:32
  So anything at all, if you interrupt that cast, that
• 1:08:35
  ability goes on cool down, it doesn't cast again for X
• 1:08:38
  seconds. This makes it so that glasses
• 1:08:44
  can make full use of the utility kits.
• 1:08:46
  So under shock, AP Totem, you know, Hodge, all this stuff, you
• 1:08:53
  see a cast, you stun it, you displace it, whatever you do, it
• 1:08:57
  stops the cast. You're safe for a little bit.
• 1:09:00
  Yeah. A lot of these are AOE stunts
• 1:09:02
  because of the nature of Mythic Plus there's you're pulling
• 1:09:04
  larger packs usually, but even if you're only pulling one
• 1:09:08
  single packs, there's lots of times when multiple mobs are
• 1:09:10
  casting at once, including The War Within.
• 1:09:13
  I can give a specific example if we need it.
• 1:09:15
  Anyway, they're changing it the way that it works back to a way
• 1:09:18
  that it used to work in the past.
• 1:09:19
  And we talked about earlier on in this episode how they've made
• 1:09:23
  so much progress making the game better over 20 years.
• 1:09:26
  I don't think stepping backwards is the right play.
• 1:09:29
  The change that they're making is only some casts will go on
• 1:09:37
  cooldown if stunned, displaced or you know, anything other than
• 1:09:42
  a kick. And some casts will go on
• 1:09:44
  cooldown kick only. Unfortunately, they don't say,
• 1:09:48
  hey, these casts will be this and these casts will be this.
• 1:09:50
  So if you're not specifically running a nameplate mod with
• 1:09:53
  color-coded spells, well, first of all, if you're not running a
• 1:09:56
  nameplate mod, you don't know what they're casting anyway, but
• 1:10:01
  or who they're targeting. But if you're not running a
• 1:10:02
  nameplate mod with the specific color-coded casts, you don't
• 1:10:06
  know, is this a cast that I can put on cooldown with a kick or
• 1:10:09
  do I need to stun? And secondly, from a new player
• 1:10:13
  perspective, as a new player, you see a cast, you think, all
• 1:10:16
  right, I stopped this cast with whatever tool I have available
• 1:10:18
  to me, whether it's a stun, a fear, a knock or kick.
• 1:10:22
  And then they instantly start recasting it again.
• 1:10:24
  You're like, Oh, like I said, you're a kick if you think that
• 1:10:28
  Friday, or maybe you just think, oh, they just recast it again.
• 1:10:31
  It's, it's going to be, I think it's going to be a problem
• 1:10:36
  because it's going to highly value shortened Dick timers
• 1:10:41
  though on rogues shaman, stuff like that and completely devalue
• 1:10:45
  and remove the benefit of those utility spells like cap totem,
• 1:10:52
  shadow fury, chaos Nova, because now they're not going to do
• 1:10:55
  anything other than restart a cast.
• 1:11:00
  If, and my, my big problem is if you're going to make it so that
• 1:11:03
  only kicks only traditional interrupts the cast on cooldown,
• 1:11:09
  make it all of them. But to say that it's some and
• 1:11:12
  not others, and he specifically calls that out, that some of
• 1:11:14
  them will do it and some won't is against the.
• 1:11:18
  We want to lower cognitive load on players.
• 1:11:24
  Yeah. Anyway, Manny, what do you
• 1:11:27
  think? Hit me.
• 1:11:28
  Tell me you're upset, Manny, that they're taking away your
• 1:11:30
  utility. No.
• 1:11:31
  No more hero moments. There are hero moments.
• 1:11:34
  They're they're just different hero moments.
• 1:11:36
  So with these spells, some of them can be kicked, some of them
• 1:11:40
  can't be kicked. It's partly it's because they
• 1:11:44
  changed when they when the spells went on cooldown from the
• 1:11:49
  initial start of the cast to when they finish casting.
• 1:11:53
  So if it doesn't finish casting because it's being stopped or
• 1:11:56
  something else, it doesn't go on cooldown.
• 1:11:58
  That change was made. I think BFA was when they made
• 1:12:01
  that change. It might be just ahead of shadow
• 1:12:04
  lands, but quite Simply put, that change devalued devalued
• 1:12:10
  some things and increased the value of others.
• 1:12:13
  It definitely increased the value of stops.
• 1:12:15
  It definitely increased the value of displacement.
• 1:12:17
  Now that's returning back to where it was, but it also means
• 1:12:21
  that other things are getting increased value relative.
• 1:12:25
  Think about druids. It's a great example.
• 1:12:27
  A lot of druids these days currently in dragon flight will
• 1:12:31
  use the 1-2 combo of putting down a typhoon and or there's
• 1:12:38
  vortex to like do the stop beforehand.
• 1:12:42
  The the way that they would do it is root them in a in a beam
• 1:12:47
  so that they'd be silenced. So the relative value of the
• 1:12:52
  stops have changed, but they still have something to to work
• 1:12:56
  with chains but. They've lost the stop completely
• 1:12:59
  though. They still have Solar Beam, but
• 1:13:01
  now they no longer can use Ursula's Vortex and Typhoon but
• 1:13:04
  so they've lost that a bit. One thing, and I do want to
• 1:13:08
  mention this one thing that Sean, Sean had pointed out was
• 1:13:12
  that hey, if you do a stop, you can't do it Willy nilly anymore
• 1:13:16
  because once they, once they stop, all you've done is lined
• 1:13:20
  up all the swing timers. So instead of damage being
• 1:13:22
  spread out over a bunch of times, it's now all coming in at
• 1:13:25
  once. Now that Vortex can disrupt
• 1:13:30
  swing timers because some of them will take longer to get in
• 1:13:34
  than others. Certain thing that you kind of
• 1:13:37
  do with like a with like Thunder which is another one that was
• 1:13:40
  used as a stop. Instead of knocking them back we
• 1:13:45
  started knocking them up as shamans.
• 1:13:47
  The the knock up effect meant that they all landed in the
• 1:13:49
  relatively same area. They would all Attack Attack at
• 1:13:53
  the same time. The knocking them back at
• 1:13:55
  distance with a slow means that it takes some time to get back
• 1:13:59
  in you you are also causing a disruption in the spring timer.
• 1:14:02
  So did the variants changes but. Means they land and start
• 1:14:06
  casting where you've knocked them because they instantly
• 1:14:09
  start to reach. If you're if you're hitting but
• 1:14:11
  like the melee swings, now they're out of range, but now
• 1:14:13
  the melee swings are are different.
• 1:14:15
  There's also times where you would use that Thunder as a as
• 1:14:20
  the like the knock up, right? But then you would not have it
• 1:14:25
  for the displacement for sanguine, right?
• 1:14:29
  Sanguine was Thunder was used a lot before, before this change
• 1:14:34
  to displace people out of out of the bad, as it were.
• 1:14:40
  In terms of like any kind of groups, you're not going to have
• 1:14:45
  just casters. You're going to have casters and
• 1:14:47
  melee in there. You're going to have some that
• 1:14:50
  are casting something that can be interrupted, some that are
• 1:14:52
  going to be casting stuff that can't be interrupted.
• 1:14:56
  So with those groups. It's not that it can't be
• 1:15:00
  interrupt you, it just chain casts it right?
• 1:15:04
  It can. You can interrupt it, but it
• 1:15:05
  just starts to recast right away some.
• 1:15:07
  That can be interrupted with a stop.
• 1:15:10
  Rather right. OK, Sorry.
• 1:15:12
  OK. And in those, go ahead.
• 1:15:17
  Oh, sorry, I this is a little bit interrupting, but as
• 1:15:21
  somebody who is primarily plays the healer, and so I'm really
• 1:15:24
  only looking at this on the outside, like my first thought
• 1:15:26
  would be like, isn't that kind of the point?
• 1:15:27
  Isn't that why certain things are balances versus?
• 1:15:30
  Just straight. Interrupts is that silences keep
• 1:15:34
  you quiet for a while, and straight interrupts just bounce
• 1:15:36
  you around a little bit. Yeah, like it it.
• 1:15:40
  Yes, except. It's reversed well.
• 1:15:42
  The thing is the the problem is that because everything acted as
• 1:15:48
  a de facto interrupt, interrupts lost their value, right?
• 1:15:53
  You would use, you would use the interrupt like let's say wind
• 1:15:58
  shear, the fastest, the fastest interrupt in the game at range,
• 1:16:02
  right? You would use that, but not
• 1:16:05
  before you use all your AOE stops, because your AOE stops
• 1:16:08
  were just more valuable. You would use one GCD, stop
• 1:16:12
  three things, they would go on cooldown, right?
• 1:16:16
  And Thunder did, sorry, Thunder didn't even use a GCD.
• 1:16:21
  So you'd be like, oh, I get to use my entire entire rotation
• 1:16:24
  while effectively disrupting 3 casts along with it, right?
• 1:16:31
  Yeah. Push back on that a little bit
• 1:16:33
  because pick individual kicks weren't devalued at all.
• 1:16:36
  You were able to save those for the priority spells.
• 1:16:40
  So in every caster pack, because what Blizzard has done is Castor
• 1:16:45
  packs now have a like a, a melee cast and then a a strong cast or
• 1:16:49
  a big cast you want to interrupt, we would all still
• 1:16:52
  use unless they were all synced up, you would still use your
• 1:16:55
  your single interrupts for those big casts.
• 1:16:58
  And the AOE interrupts, stuns, displacements were being used
• 1:17:02
  for the smaller things like the cinder bolts and Ruby life
• 1:17:04
  bolts, because if one person gets targeted with three of
• 1:17:07
  them, they're dead. They get one shot.
• 1:17:11
  Yeah. So it's single.
• 1:17:13
  Yeah. Single target interrupts did not
• 1:17:15
  lose any value with the implementation of AOE stuns.
• 1:17:18
  It just made it survivable with the way that the packs are
• 1:17:22
  built. And they're still built the same
• 1:17:23
  way in War Within. There's still multiple casters
• 1:17:26
  in a single, even if you're not pulling two or three packs,
• 1:17:30
  there are still single packs that have multiple casters in
• 1:17:33
  them. And now they just need have
• 1:17:36
  there's, I mean, there's in Eric Hara, there's two mobs.
• 1:17:39
  They're they're packs of two. They're in that hallway with the
• 1:17:41
  eggs. Both of them cast a knock back.
• 1:17:43
  It can only be put on cooldown with an interrupt.
• 1:17:46
  And if it not, they, they chain cast a knock back in this
• 1:17:48
  hallway. And every time you get knocked
• 1:17:50
  back, you hit eggs and spawn more mobs.
• 1:17:52
  I went in there with a mage, a hunter, and sorry, two mages and
• 1:17:57
  a hunter. And it was, we had 45 mobs
• 1:18:00
  within 30 seconds. So it was insane.
• 1:18:04
  So I'm just not going to take. I'm just going to take.
• 1:18:07
  I'm just going to take short kicks.
• 1:18:08
  I. Mean like yes the kick is 1
• 1:18:10
  answer but like a stun would be good especially since you are
• 1:18:14
  now dealing with only two priority priority mobs.
• 1:18:18
  Like yes, that's plus the the, but you're.
• 1:18:22
  Not going to. You're not going to pull just
• 1:18:25
  two mobs. You're going to pull multiple.
• 1:18:27
  You can't if you're doing mythic plus a day, No, I said.
• 1:18:29
  Two priority. Not, not not two mobs, totally.
• 1:18:34
  Oh sorry, sorry. But so the but the the that
• 1:18:36
  priority. If you stun it, it's only
• 1:18:38
  interrupted for the length of that stun and then it casts it
• 1:18:41
  again immediately. You are.
• 1:18:42
  Using like with the mages you have like and mages are horrible
• 1:18:45
  for this. You have a disorientate right in
• 1:18:49
  the in the. Keep in mind these all have DRS,
• 1:18:54
  they all have cooldowns on that sort of the second one is
• 1:18:55
  interrupted, right? You you can use a a knock back,
• 1:19:01
  right, because you had the the hunter the next the next mage is
• 1:19:05
  there. And like, if that pool is too
• 1:19:09
  much, right, then I think they've successfully found a
• 1:19:13
  pack that becomes a hey, this is a dangerous pack and I'm OK with
• 1:19:18
  it's not. It's not fun.
• 1:19:20
  I'm OK. I'm OK with a dangerous pack.
• 1:19:22
  The pack that you need to to be wary of, right, Maybe you don't
• 1:19:29
  deal with that pack, you deal with another pack.
• 1:19:31
  I know with the pack that you're talking about, there's one on
• 1:19:34
  either side. You have to deal with it there.
• 1:19:36
  There's. There's 4 packs on either side,
• 1:19:39
  you have to do them like. But like there's there's two
• 1:19:41
  different ways to. To single pull those in mythic
• 1:19:43
  plus would kill the key. You would not be able to do it
• 1:19:45
  and time it. You just can't.
• 1:19:47
  You wouldn't be able to so. Like it becomes a, hey, is that
• 1:19:51
  that particular pack that needs to be addressed.
• 1:19:54
  But like, again, they can balance around this.
• 1:19:57
  It's the same thing with like the defensive conversation that
• 1:20:00
  that's had. It's like when you have all of
• 1:20:02
  these stops, I guess we have to have a million casts so that
• 1:20:06
  something actually gets through. When stops do everything,
• 1:20:10
  including stopping all damage as well as putting stuff on
• 1:20:14
  cooldown, then stops are way higher value than anything else.
• 1:20:18
  Chains is as good as silence is as good.
• 1:20:22
  As like Thunder is as good as a, as a singular interrupt, right?
• 1:20:29
  So like this change creates niches, creates a value for this
• 1:20:34
  that's different than a value for that that's different than a
• 1:20:36
  value for something else. And I get that it doesn't work
• 1:20:40
  with the current paradigm of what things are and that sucks
• 1:20:44
  for the current paradigm. But my immediate thing would be
• 1:20:48
  I really would hope and would like there to be a good value
• 1:20:53
  for me actually not putting a point in the knock, the way to
• 1:20:58
  knock people up into the air, right, versus knocking them
• 1:21:01
  back. I really would like there to be
• 1:21:05
  a reason not to take the mage with a million stops for
• 1:21:08
  somebody that has better better interrupts.
• 1:21:11
  OK, I'll agree. We'll have to agree to disagree.
• 1:21:15
  I feel like we play different games, Manny.
• 1:21:22
  Man, he just wants to make sure that he knocked the trash is
• 1:21:24
  what I've gotten out of this. It's.
• 1:21:26
  Very much changed the wording on that last word so Brex could not
• 1:21:29
  keep a straight face. If you're, if they're going to
• 1:21:33
  implement this where some casts can be put on cooldown with a
• 1:21:35
  kick and some can't, then I would like to also see the
• 1:21:37
  minimum and inner add some way to tell which kicks those are,
• 1:21:41
  which cast those are because currently there's not in the
• 1:21:43
  base UI. You need external add-ons.
• 1:21:46
  So and it adds to the cognitive load and.
• 1:21:49
  Also, they added in a bunch of abilities where they used to
• 1:21:54
  have a cast time and now they're instant.
• 1:21:56
  They they are spells that just instantly cast.
• 1:21:59
  So what does that do? That means that the proactive
• 1:22:01
  silence or the proactive stun now has more value than the like
• 1:22:06
  sigil interrupt or the the knockback.
• 1:22:08
  That's another way that they've shifted some of the value
• 1:22:11
  without the exact thing that you're upset about in the into
• 1:22:15
  in the interrupt. And if they make changes like
• 1:22:17
  that, even if they change the one thing that you're, you're
• 1:22:19
  upset about, then they're, I guess they're pleasing me and,
• 1:22:23
  and getting rid of your, your issue too.
• 1:22:27
  Yeah, I mean, my issue is I think if you stop a cast, the
• 1:22:31
  cast are going cool down, period.
• 1:22:32
  I don't care how you stop it. A new player is not going to
• 1:22:35
  have any idea. You put a new player in a Mythic
• 1:22:36
  0, they're going to have no clue that they have to use an
• 1:22:40
  interrupt versus a stun. They're going to think I stunned
• 1:22:42
  it. Why did that not work?
• 1:22:44
  And then they're going to get yelled at and then they're going
• 1:22:46
  to stop running Mythic Plus. And then we're going to hear
• 1:22:47
  there's a problem in Mythic Plus toxicity.
• 1:22:49
  And it's going to be like, yeah, of course there is, because you
• 1:22:51
  made this shit so difficult, I mean.
• 1:22:53
  Shit, this shit is difficult right now.
• 1:22:56
  Yeah, yeah. I don't know how you could say
• 1:22:59
  that it's difficult right now, but you look at the rain stuff
• 1:23:01
  they said and be like, no, they're not going to make it
• 1:23:03
  better. It's terrible.
• 1:23:05
  This is the exact opposite. No, I just, I feel like you
• 1:23:10
  can't you. Literally just went from no I
• 1:23:14
  don't care what they said about raids it's bad now I hate it and
• 1:23:17
  saying well difficult today but it might not be.
• 1:23:20
  I'm just saying that like when they put out something.
• 1:23:23
  Frustrating, man. They're very frustrating.
• 1:23:25
  I'm saying when they put out something they say like, Oh
• 1:23:28
  yeah, like this will make it all better.
• 1:23:29
  It's like not unless you cover up, cover a bunch of things.
• 1:23:34
  And when they say, hey, we're doing, we're doing this and it's
• 1:23:38
  going it's going to empower certain things that have
• 1:23:41
  completely. Been put away, they said they're
• 1:23:42
  doing it to make it better so that they they decrease the
• 1:23:45
  value where we stop and. Increase the value of other
• 1:23:47
  things. OK, let me let me know on launch
• 1:23:53
  day when no boomkins are getting invited with their 62nd ghoul
• 1:23:56
  that I. Understood.
• 1:23:58
  See. How it goes then?
• 1:24:00
  I I, I just definitely think that they're trying to bust up
• 1:24:03
  the God comp with this because the God comp.
• 1:24:07
  This hasn't. This has zero effect on the God
• 1:24:09
  comp. None.
• 1:24:10
  The God comp wasn't built because of AOE stops.
• 1:24:13
  The God comp was built because of damage profiles and damage
• 1:24:16
  amps that build into each other and Vengeance.
• 1:24:18
  Stephen Hunter's double sigils enabled it so.
• 1:24:21
  It. Had it had nothing to do with
• 1:24:22
  AOE stops on mages and shadow priests and augmentation of
• 1:24:26
  workers the. Stops that This is an aside,
• 1:24:29
  this is definitely a side, but I I believe that demon hunters and
• 1:24:33
  all the stops that they had that could carry through a team
• 1:24:37
  helped. And there's a number of things
• 1:24:39
  in the God comp that definitely that definitely helped,
• 1:24:43
  including the fact that all their damage profiles were
• 1:24:46
  really skewed to high, high counts, definitely, but also the
• 1:24:53
  amount of defenses and things that they could survive and also
• 1:24:55
  the amount of times that they could stop things so they
• 1:24:57
  wouldn't have to deal with that all contributed to it.
• 1:25:02
  And so they're not just looking at the the one issue of hey
• 1:25:05
  damage, they're also looking at everything else that contributed
• 1:25:08
  to it because all Volkers were gross, not just because the
• 1:25:13
  amped other people's damage, but because they increased the
• 1:25:16
  survivability and throughput of the tank and healer as well.
• 1:25:19
  So there's always multiple things that are going through
• 1:25:22
  it. And they're not just looking at
• 1:25:23
  the top level thing that people are complaining about today.
• 1:25:26
  They're talking about what happens after they deal with
• 1:25:28
  that. OK, Sean and I.
• 1:25:35
  Not each other, but not in the. But they're not doing that.
• 1:25:38
  They're not doing that in the raid, apparently, because Manny
• 1:25:40
  disagreed with that. Got it.
• 1:25:47
  OK. All right.
• 1:25:48
  I'll just prepare for us to be on opposite sides every week.
• 1:25:51
  That'll be easy. OK.
• 1:25:55
  Do you have anything more this? Is the fun I no I for innuendos?
• 1:26:02
  We all do it, in fact. That yeah, I, I thought the
• 1:26:05
  whole interview as a whole was good because I, it shows that
• 1:26:07
  they're, they're looking to make changes.
• 1:26:09
  They're not sitting idle and they are listening except for
• 1:26:12
  maybe affixes when they come out with anybody on a + 25 and above
• 1:26:16
  has no affixes, but all you plus 10 jobbers get them.
• 1:26:20
  I think we'll see some complaints then.
• 1:26:21
  But yeah, everybody should definitely read it.
• 1:26:28
  Yeah, that's. I said if they have a level,
• 1:26:30
  because they talked about no variance.
• 1:26:32
  I said if there's a level that eliminates affixes, that's the
• 1:26:34
  level I'm going to run. So I.
• 1:26:38
  Think they? I think I keep thinking that I
• 1:26:40
  should put back in challenge mode.
• 1:26:42
  I think that certain they should just split it off.
• 1:26:45
  And I don't think Mythic plus should have a point where it's
• 1:26:48
  like, OK, now we turn off the affixes.
• 1:26:50
  I think that should literally be a separate mode.
• 1:26:53
  They should just be like, here, this is the difficulty.
• 1:26:56
  We're going to scale your we're going to scale you all to this
• 1:26:59
  this point. And you guys just do your time
• 1:27:01
  trial, see how big you can pull, how fast you can pull, no
• 1:27:04
  variance in it so that people can just go for the bragging
• 1:27:07
  rights. And that's, that's what they
• 1:27:11
  should do, in my opinion, rather than trying to like twist they,
• 1:27:15
  they said it in this interview. Mythic Plus is serving so many
• 1:27:18
  different audiences. We've got three people at
• 1:27:21
  different points here. There are people in between.
• 1:27:24
  There are people far on other sides.
• 1:27:26
  And so I think that they they just need to understand it's the
• 1:27:31
  same thing that they had with Raid where you need to start
• 1:27:34
  saying, is this a big enough audience to specifically cater
• 1:27:37
  to? Let's do something for them.
• 1:27:42
  Yeah, yeah, I I would love to have challenge modes back.
• 1:27:45
  I'm all about speed. Well, I guess I sort of talked
• 1:27:51
  about my thing with this interview and Sean, you, you've
• 1:27:54
  already said it. I do love that they are
• 1:27:57
  addressing all of this sort of stuff.
• 1:28:00
  I wish that it had been earlier to inform people's opinions
• 1:28:02
  about what is coming out. Just like we were having with
• 1:28:06
  this conversation. We've already seen some changes
• 1:28:08
  that are adding to this and more is to is to come.
• 1:28:12
  I really love that they are giving this this kind of
• 1:28:15
  communication. My one thing is that when they
• 1:28:21
  do this sort of this sort of thing, they really should
• 1:28:27
  actually point to, hey, all of these things are related.
• 1:28:30
  We're, we're not just doing it here, but this also adds to it
• 1:28:34
  because when you look at like, OK, well, we're not doing the,
• 1:28:40
  the interrupts the same way they should be highlighting.
• 1:28:44
  OK, well, we're adjusting for it in this way.
• 1:28:47
  And if they said that it wouldn't be be me be trying to
• 1:28:50
  be like, well, in the tea leaves, this is what I see and
• 1:28:53
  trying to be like, well, no, this is not this isn't what I
• 1:28:55
  see. They should put that forward.
• 1:28:57
  And I think that kind of communication would help a lot,
• 1:29:01
  a lot more, except on this show where we get to make content out
• 1:29:05
  of it. Yeah.
• 1:29:10
  OK. And with that said, we're gonna
• 1:29:13
  call it a night here. Thank you so much, everybody for
• 1:29:17
  coming out. Sean, we have one more thing
• 1:29:22
  that you need to cover, right? Yeah, the special thing.
• 1:29:25
  So a special thanks to Danny Klingon and all of our Patrons
• 1:29:29
  for Azeroth will always be free. But if you enjoy the content we
• 1:29:32
  produce, consider pledging to our Patreon at patreon.com/faz.
• 1:29:37
  Thank. You and until Zed.
• 1:29:39
  Or Zed I guess if you're in the EU.
• 1:29:41
  Zed in Canada too. It's only the US that does it
• 1:29:44
  for ZZ. How do we?
• 1:29:47
  Are we also sorry? OK.
• 1:29:50
  That's a weird mouse field. Here's.
• 1:29:51
  Here's the Here's the thing. Do you know why it became Z in
• 1:29:54
  the US? Is it better?
• 1:29:58
  Better. No, so the USA lot of their
• 1:30:02
  their schools in the old times, they taught, they taught orally
• 1:30:08
  through nursing rhymes and stuff.
• 1:30:10
  ABCDEFG that entire thing. In order to make zed rhyme with
• 1:30:14
  the with the structure, they change it from zed to Z.
• 1:30:18
  And then people learned incorrectly and then it followed
• 1:30:21
  through to become the dominant way of pronouncing it.
• 1:30:24
  And so they adopted it. And so now it's accepted what I
• 1:30:28
  spelled. What I'm getting out of this is
• 1:30:31
  that Americans are well educated.
• 1:30:34
  We all, we all, we all learn. There you go and you wait, guys,
• 1:30:40
  until next time. It's Zed.
• 1:30:43
  Good night. May all your crispy zeds, may
• 1:30:48
  all your crispy. Zeds.