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Strictly Come Hamster - Season 19 (featuring Nathan Bottomley & Robert Shearman) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:13
  Too many opinions as it is meet a few difficulties and suddenly
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  everyone's got an opinion. That's how Things Fall Apart.
• 0:43
  Welcome back to Strictly Come hand star if I sound baffled
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  it's because I don't recognize the quote.
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  The Rob just said. Oh thank you.
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  I'm just gonna hope that because I've come on brand everyone is
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  gonna have a excellent. That's very exciting people
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  today. But because I'm quite lazy on
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  this podcast, I'm gonna immediately have my co-host Mr.
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  Rod Brown. How are you doing rod for the
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  sake of this podcast? I should I acknowledge Black
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  Orchid and call you smutty all the way through all thank you
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  very much. Nobody's going near my dark
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  places of the inside. All right.
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  And I'm hoping that nobody's mind is going to slip into a
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  bottomless pit of gloom and despair because yeah in case you
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  haven't noticed everybody we are covering season 19 today.
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  We come back 1982 a period of massive change.
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  This was the year of the Falklands War a great wave of
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  patriotism swept across the UK and obviously as we all know the
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  most significant cultural effect of that war was the fact that
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  Maggie Thatcher called the early snap election and the Mercer
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  wasn't ready in time for worries of the deep, which obviously
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  have the greatest impact on all our lives a great greatest
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  crime. Frankly.
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  Absolutely. Well, I was beginning of the end
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  wasn't Michael great saw that 1982 was also the year of Blade
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  Runner and Culture Club were storming the charts with new
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  music and in TVs Doctor Who it's all changed too because we now
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  have all creatures great and small so called wet vet in the
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  lead supported by group of dispute juveniles, but how will
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  it all work out? Well, let's get into it and
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  discuss it and to help us sort out our resident strobe scope
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  from our interior or our Gravitron Crystal detector,
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  which joined by two kings one is a king.
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  Of the pain and the other is a king of podcasting which
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  probably makes me enjoy power of old Queen's.
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  I don't know what we're doing it right between us we are going to
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  work out which stories going to be lifting that the cursion
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  glitter ball and which is going to be banished to event one from
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  which I quote you can only Escape by an enormous thrust
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  Which is what it looks like a drugs doing when he's chained up
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  in the Masters bondage. Where don't you come with me
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  saying? I'm smart.
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  I don't know what you mean. Anyway, let us welcome to
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  today's guests. Let's start with Rob, please
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  introduce yourself. I'm I'm Rob Sherman.
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  I'm a huge season 19 Debbie because it's my first season as
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  a kid to watch and I sort of went on to do doctor.
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  I mean, I I vote for the for the actual Bona fighting television
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  series very very briefly. I mean I voted for a whole 45
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  minutes back in 2015, and I'm just a fan really.
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  I mean, I've tried to expand Doctor Who from my brain many
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  many times over the years. I keep on being sucked back to
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  my memories of Portuguese today and of the the monopolist and
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  stuff. So yes, so, that's me.
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  I'm I'm Bob. Yes, but amazing to have your
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  hair up and king of podcasts Nathan.
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  Hi, so I'm Nathan bottomley from flight through entirety.
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  I watched season 19 sort of on its first broadcast in
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  Australia, which was a little bit just a little bit after you
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  got it over there and it was a season 19 that nearly finished
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  me. I didn't really and you'll find
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  out why a little bit later. So she's a 19 brought in one of
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  you and nearly exited one of you this is gonna be a great podcast
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  see. It's until mention, but I might
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  even be older than Rob and so you might so.
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  How old are you? So I'm 55, but in Australia
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  Doctor Who was repeated over and over and over and over again?
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  And so the first thing that I ever saw in in 1978 was death to
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  the Daleks. And the first time that I was
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  conscious that I was watching a new season of Doctor Who and it
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  was just new to me. I think at the time was seasoned
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  beef I think and I certainly remember Seasons 17 on first
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  broadcast very vividly and we we held off here in Australia on
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  season 18 until 19 was available.
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  So it was all at all. You know, we had a year without
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  Doctor Who ate and we had a whole heap of it.
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  Very very strange and impressive Doctor Who well, I think we've
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  already touched on where people's lovers and opinions are
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  going to light shall we go first of all to the listeners
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  comments. Let's go to the first batch of
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  overall season comments and then we'll start to dig into the
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  stories themselves gentlemen robbed Nathan.
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  I believe you're doing the honors for us and reading out
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  responses. This is my court in loafy and
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  says desperately uneven seats, but when it lands that's India
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  is out there visitation is good and while not the Masterpiece
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  tabled as Earth shock is full of all time moments.
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  Always a masterpiece. Come on.
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  It's got better reading it. Yeah, yeah.
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  All right, I'm gonna read out no, not the mind probe and they
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  say glorious the First full season.
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  I watched as a fan before that. I was just a snotty nose kid
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  with a stash of Superman comics. I don't know what they are and
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  Target books hidden under his bed.
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  It was my Coming of Age short to who and if anyone says, it's
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  shit. I'll fry them.
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  Okay. James Lark Larkin get my elves,
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  right? How did we go from the ambitious
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  varied and huge entertaining season 18 to this.
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  I would argue passage of time James and infantile approached
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  characters dialogue and he's three scripts in the should
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  never have got his Farmers production.
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  That's three. I think we should hear his
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  comments as we go along. Yeah, give us good reasons.
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  Okay, I have the beautiful side heart my first new doctor and he
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  was instantly Splendid or you know a few weeks in at least I
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  love this season and while almost everyone will disagree
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  Castro valve is my favorite because it's gentle and magical
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  and exploring the Titus was very excited for my six year old self
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  a beautiful beginning. I have to say that I actually
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  agree with pretty much. All right?
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  No, that's true. Yeah, like storm brackets
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  warning says, I'm sure why do I get all the negative ones?
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  I'm sure of where to go how to get the what to do in the
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  meantime. Yeah, that's like my wedding
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  night the holidays one note and generic not helped by having a
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  four-person team. I hope a four-person team
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  doesn't also describe your wedding nights because that is
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  one of the reasons. Why I recognize your face Rob I
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  can oh should we move on swiftly?
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  Oh, yeah. All right.
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  So this is John Arnold a transitional season moving from
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  a bidmead era epilogue. Oh, I guess it's guest Rebel
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  right through to Anthony Roots more thoughtful sci-fi.
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  Okay to the same idea. We come to know and tolerate
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  really tolerate it again. You don't know.
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  Okay. No, it's much much stronger than
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  its reputation. And only four to Doomsday and
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  time to disappoint but both are more entertaining than common
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  opinion. Yeah, I agree with that.
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  I don't want to reveal myself to to yes.
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  Okay, I will do this is Tom Newsome.
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  It's carrying on the season 18 modern 80s production and style.
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  But without Tom's coldness. Or bids hand on the tiller.
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  Yeah, those were both good things though.
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  Right? I think I did notice how the
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  words as well. Yeah, God, however, there's a
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  real Back to Basics approach. Okay throwing in Old favorite
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  villains. And Hartnell ask proper whose
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  story I don't even know what that means what I think it means
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  the visitation. It means for to Doomsday.
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  I mean, yeah, I'm gonna bunch of stories that are just not as
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  much fun as space babies. I think that's probably know.
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  That's a controversial. Maybe I won't in Winterton the
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  Great Eastern. I'm now back to disagree with
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  not incredibly and disliking entirely up.
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  This was when he came to show only I watched prior to that
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  everyone did struggle with a lot of it and even on the appraisal
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  like Earth shocks great but best is Kinder.
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  I hated it as a kid, but it's now in my top 10 who?
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  That's teams Fair. Yeah, that's him said all right
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  Dave for any the lovely day for any a decent first season for
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  Davao. He's not Australian is he that's
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  what we would call him. But he's Scottish that too.
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  Yeah, it has been made who knows how to write for the fifth
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  doctor that is absolutely true and experimental story in Kinder
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  a decent person. This is crazy talk what's
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  happening a decent first say would in visitation and a
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  shockingly memorable Earth shark period has two Dudley scripts.
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  Yeah well and incomprehensible mess in time flight.
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  Okay, Chris Hogan says not what I'm a favorite.
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  I don't know what it is. It's season 9 the guest actors
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  are good, but I struggle with it and find it.
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  Oh. Okay, and this is crashed dummy.
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  I don't love anything here though.
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  I don't majorly dislike anything either best thing it gave us was
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  the redesigned side and again crazy talk and the worst was
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  saying that absolutely it was launched says big frogs even
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  bigger snakes. Adrix struts is what's up?
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  So something's life was shuts his stuff and she had started
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  his face. Yeah.
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  Have you ever double and Tegan is Mega bossy?
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  As for the what's that turn on monsters.
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  Well, the master can keep there was any critique in there at
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  all. Just a series.
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  Is that the end of the first batch?
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  Well done guys. Thank you for that.
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  Nathan you you kept your powder dry so clearly on that which way
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  you gonna go there like to keep my cards close to me all of us.
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  Well in that case then Rob let's start with you go to your first
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  story pick a story out of all seven and tell us three reasons
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  or as many reasons you want or don't want why you either want
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  to jump in it or condemn it? Well, it's tempting just a
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  daughter, but I'm actually gonna go.
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  The first Doctor Who story I ever watched. which is
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  castrovalva and I think that the danger of course with all of
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  these things and I'm sure that I will come to blows with Nathan
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  during this is that it's very dangerous when Nostalgia
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  influences. Everything I mean season 19 for
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  me is a time when this is going to sound quite moving.
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  I hope it doesn't sound too moving but I look back at it and
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  it's it may be the happiest I've ever been in my entire life.
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  I mean genuinely those those three months when it was on.
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  I just totally fell in love with the show and all though.
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  I recognize that a lots of things which Now I might find
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  questionable bits of drama that may be people shouldn't do.
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  I find it very hard to divorce myself in particular with Castro
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  Valley. From the sense of total joy that
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  I got. I realized that.
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  For some strange reason this particular for episode Adventure
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  made me just adore who more than anything else including stories
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  which have been broadcast since I find myself always drawn back
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  to that first date I have with doctor.
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  And I look at it. It's a strange one because it
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  all to be full of things, which should be quite, you know gate
• 14:53
  key parade. For someone who hasn't seen the
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  show before but actually totally the next mean I'm I am Charmed
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  enormously. by the way that Dr. Who and all those past
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  references come on and the way that you exported hardest for
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  practically nearly an hour before anything really happens
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  and So, I mean I've got three basic things I'm aware that all
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  of them actually could be negative.
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  If you just think of that way one of the things I want to
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  start with really is is that gentlemen's I mean, I find it an
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  extraordinary gentle story. I am a lot of people go on about
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  I saw Andrew. on a big screen a Hammersmith and I was struck
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  again, by the way that you talks about the way that Davis and
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  gave us up his life the end of his time for a companion eBay
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  and how moving that is and I find one of the Elvis the same
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  thing backwards. It's it's weird.
• 15:55
  You suddenly have companions. He's known for you know less
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  than a day. Um thrown into the sort of
• 16:05
  impossible situation, it doesn't know this so he doesn't know
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  Teagan adric isn't there anymore and yet they are giving
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  themselves to him. They are they are willing him
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  through a forest. They're falling into that will
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  streams and going you as they get wet.
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  And I think that's strange you the acts of kindness in cash of
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  our really move me and when you find you get to meet the cash to
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  albums themselves again the kindness there it could seem so
• 16:39
  wet and it isn't I really care about migraines.
• 16:43
  Michael shared being wonderful and you know, he's only in it
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  for episode. But when he dies, I felt as a
• 16:51
  kid, you know, I mean that whole bit where he is, he is holding
• 16:55
  the master back. It felt that's the way my
• 16:57
  favorite moments of all Doctor Who the fact that he's giving
• 17:00
  his life at the end. To attack this sort of snake who
• 17:05
  invades this paradise Sharda Van's active.
• 17:11
  Suicide is for me again. I mean even as I'm describing
• 17:15
  I'm getting this chill running down you you may just man of
• 17:20
  evil, but we are free. Feels to me like one of the most
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  sophisticated lines about the idea of religion, but also art
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  of this the Doctor Who has ever done.
• 17:31
  I mean it I find it extraordinary that a story which
• 17:35
  has so much packed in. Feels as you watch it, so
• 17:39
  incredibly relaxed and gentle and it is not like it's pushing
• 17:44
  all the ideas that they just come in this in this incredibly.
• 17:50
  Almost sort of benevolent gentle way and I and I say, I mean you
• 17:56
  watching it when I was coming up to my 12th birthday.
• 17:59
  I was hypnotized by I had it on a BHS per second until we had
• 18:03
  one video cassette that we could use so I had to wipe it quite
• 18:06
  quickly, but I think I called it on all jokes and I just found it
• 18:11
  something which always if I were feeling sad, I would play and I
• 18:15
  would just feel that charm of it.
• 18:18
  So I find that gentleness behind it something which is incredibly
• 18:23
  rare in Doctor Who and and strangely.
• 18:25
  I think when I came to Doctor Who I was because I was quite I
• 18:27
  was knees he scared. And I didn't want to watch
• 18:30
  Doctor Who Tom Baker Tom Baker was scared.
• 18:33
  I didn't like the idea that being horror and I went into it.
• 18:37
  Very very nervously Doctor Who so wanting to be To too love it
• 18:42
  because I put one another hitchhikers and I was led to
• 18:45
  understand by a boy on the bus that Doug has wrote All of
• 18:48
  hitchhiker's under the name which turned out not to be true,
• 18:52
  you know, but nevertheless going into cash for valve and finding
• 18:56
  that sort of that. It wasn't until ray guns and it
• 18:58
  wasn't monsters, but actually it was something so much.
• 19:02
  More thoughtful than that still has a huge impact.
• 19:06
  I mean every time I did a doctor myself for a big finish.
• 19:10
  Then I stuck was a bit nastier It Was Always by the idea of
• 19:18
  wanting to explore the idea of the self-contained world where
• 19:21
  you found, you know. Where it's sort of found its own
• 19:26
  rules and I just think it's a really profound piece of
• 19:30
  Television after which is never the attention that I think it
• 19:35
  deserves partly also because it feels like it's the end of a
• 19:38
  trench of two stories in the previous season.
• 19:40
  Which Hunters good though. They are good.
• 19:43
  I think Astrid valve is something quite Exquisite.
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  So so that's one of my three points I could bake other
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  points. I mean no no, come on do you
• 19:54
  three? Okay.
• 19:56
  I'm also going to talk about from this perspective now that
• 20:00
  I'm I know Doctor Who better I'm Again, I I feel I'm astonished
• 20:05
  by the idea that so much of what we understand about modern
• 20:08
  Doctor Who is shaped by cast? He doesn't just that we end up
• 20:12
  exploring the TARDIS. Which is such an important part
• 20:16
  of the Davidson Years anyway, such a character.
• 20:18
  It's it's such a major part of almost everything Doctor Who
• 20:23
  story that Davidson is in there always hardest.
• 20:26
  So the way that we get to explore here feels like it's
• 20:29
  sort of opening up the show in a way that when you look back at
• 20:32
  previous Seasons, it just wasn't doing this is like a big
• 20:34
  introduction to a whole new way of doing doctor, but also much
• 20:39
  more importantly perhaps it's the way in which this is where
• 20:42
  we begin to understand the idea of regeneration.
• 20:46
  Before that, you know, you put me into Tom Baker.
• 20:49
  It feels almost like every single time.
• 20:52
  It happens. It feels relatively happy there.
• 20:55
  It may be a negative in part. I mean I can argue that I rather
• 21:00
  like the show also when you don't start relying upon that or
• 21:03
  to much but there's something again as that 11 year old coming
• 21:07
  in. Buying into the idea that this
• 21:10
  was what the series was and had all this tremendous backstory,
• 21:14
  which I didn't notice at the time wasn't there.
• 21:17
  I mean the idea of finding the zero but also finding the idea
• 21:21
  of of going through that sort of post regenerative.
• 21:25
  Sense of chaos and everything all those things helped me.
• 21:27
  Like, I don't know that I was being introduced to the sort of
• 21:30
  huge new world and it felt so characterful as a result and I
• 21:34
  really believe that you know way up into the new series. so much
• 21:39
  of what defines the way we understand those sort of
• 21:41
  parameters of comes directly from this four-part series and
• 21:47
  Again, I can argue as well. Some of that is rather negative.
• 21:52
  I mean, I mean I rather missed the idea actually that the
• 21:55
  doctor is in Jeopardy, but he actually might just kill him and
• 22:00
  that's an act of sacrifice and tragedy rather more profound
• 22:04
  than simply saying well, I'm never too I'm gonna change into
• 22:07
  some young rise in character actor But at the same point
• 22:11
  there is something I feel so. It just feels so huge cash about
• 22:16
  it has such a strange epic scale for what it then does.
• 22:20
  I mean, I know people say that about inside their Deadly
• 22:23
  Assassin, but I don't so much more sucked really doing that.
• 22:28
  Now because if you don't like what happens after in the 80s
• 22:31
  and I can see that being sort of a profound problem, but I just I
• 22:36
  find cash advance so extraordinary for that.
• 22:39
  And my other thing I've ever done.
• 22:40
  Oh, yes my third point. Is it's the importance of Art?
• 22:46
  And we always sort of come to Big meets stuff with this sort
• 22:50
  of idea that he kind of snares at us.
• 22:53
  You know, the art that you get something like city of death and
• 22:56
  the wit of Douglas Adams and then you move into this one of
• 23:00
  the cold idea of big meat. I don't think bids cold at all
• 23:03
  what I love about cash generally is the playfulness that he makes
• 23:09
  he makes science art. I I love the fact that you know,
• 23:13
  he wrote this in part to push to piss off jnt because of the MS
• 23:18
  esher paintings upon jnt's bosses Ball, but it's actually
• 23:23
  more it's the idea of taking inspiration from art and using
• 23:27
  that to sort of challenge yourself into scientific areas,
• 23:30
  which I find as a non-scientist genuinely inspiring.
• 23:36
  I mean, I don't understand science at all.
• 23:38
  And I that's why it's strange that I might be stuff so much.
• 23:41
  I don't find it coldly scientific.
• 23:44
  I find it it sort of lifts off the idea of what science is into
• 23:48
  huge imaginative areas. And I find cash Travelers treat
• 23:52
  them to the curse of a collision whatever that might mean, but
• 23:56
  the idea of that sort of of a world which is crushing in
• 23:59
  itself because actually it's actually, you know, the whole
• 24:02
  thing is fictitious. So so we're remarkably full of
• 24:06
  for the imagination that I just find it massively inspiring.
• 24:12
  So that's my take on Castroville.
• 24:14
  I did it like it before I bloody love it.
• 24:17
  Now everyone knows to be negative.
• 24:21
  Shall we go to the comments Joe? Sorry, Rob Gareth Bailey is
• 24:26
  going to upset you right from the off because Gareth Bailey
• 24:29
  says this is terrible the doctor not being the doctor for most of
• 24:33
  it and companions. We don't really know or like
• 24:36
  adrik. I'm looking at you means we
• 24:38
  don't have an identification figure.
• 24:39
  This makes the whole thing feel a bit introspective.
• 24:42
  Jason Thompson says something good stuff here and Davis is on
• 24:47
  fire right away also harass and Michael Sheard and the guy
• 24:50
  playing shot of that not to mention the Master's most
• 24:53
  convincing disguise. I too agree with that.
• 24:56
  Oh queen says Charming deliberately quiet with an
• 25:00
  unusual out on real reality Davidson is great.
• 25:03
  Once they ditch the Deep the tedious post-regeneration
• 25:05
  Madness. Amy is very good in Disguise.
• 25:08
  Nice work by satnam Fielding is already looking superfluous.
• 25:13
  Peter house says decent first two parts and the second half
• 25:16
  has some interesting moments such as murder Rave realizing
• 25:19
  he's fiction, but the master portrayed his silly and it makes
• 25:22
  no sense that the city is blocked transfer computation,
• 25:25
  but the rest of the planet isn't Michael storm says a strong
• 25:29
  start to the Davidson ERA with vidme proven.
• 25:31
  He's one of the few writers who understands the fifth doctor.
• 25:34
  This is perhaps. The only time that the crowded
• 25:37
  Tardis is used effectively and mainly gives good performances
• 25:40
  as the master and portrayed. A Fifth Doctor era script edited
• 25:45
  by Peter Criss Frise bidmead would have been a different
• 25:49
  Beast indeed. It would it would David
• 25:52
  Gillespie Pratt says the story of a fake town as a space-time
• 25:56
  trap for the doctor is inspired a shame that the visual effects
• 25:59
  couldn't do the Isha style visuals script demanded Andy
• 26:03
  Parkinson said, I remembered watching this as a kid and being
• 26:05
  so disappointed. Why was the doctor in a box for
• 26:08
  two episodes It's a bizarre decision Bennett James Locke
• 26:13
  full of ideas, but ideas that could possibly Realize by the
• 26:16
  BBC at the time what the BBC could realize were identical
• 26:20
  corridors a boring walk in the woods and the most dramatic
• 26:23
  thing to happen to Nyssa is getting in a bit of water on her
• 26:26
  as displayed Abby by Robert and radio phonics score inspired by
• 26:31
  the music in looking read look and read.
• 26:34
  What's that? It's education show for under
• 26:38
  five something I disagree with his last statements or maybe
• 26:42
  Remember, I'll ask him. His last name is Doctor Who
• 26:47
  never felt more like schools TV. Jack koi says acquaint Breezy
• 26:53
  story good for a lazy summer's day.
• 26:55
  Love that. The theme of recursion is
• 26:57
  reflected in the doctor's personality folding back on
• 27:00
  itself during his regeneration crisis as he reverts back to
• 27:03
  ourselves Gavin a favorite great location filming and gorgeous
• 27:08
  incidentals. Oh, yes more Brave and Ruth are
• 27:11
  charming and the makeup job on Amelia's pretty good big meat
• 27:15
  got this one. Right?
• 27:16
  Well Smith is sometimes confusing but ultimately an
• 27:20
  enjoyable start to see the season.
• 27:22
  Big Orange Michael who I still have yet to identify Ross.
• 27:25
  I like the idea of filming it forth to give the toy to give
• 27:29
  the team time to Jollibee the story moves a good clip and
• 27:33
  there's some excellent location work.
• 27:34
  Keep it Martin Parsons loses points for taking 300 years for
• 27:39
  the story to get started nearly there Luke's in Jenkins a great
• 27:43
  season opener that's light on plot full of great ideas and a
• 27:46
  great new team. I like it.
• 27:48
  So yeah and finally Jolie well in is very very to the point
• 27:53
  where he thinks bought bored bored.
• 27:56
  Why is he and rocks in heels bored?
• 28:00
  So highly succinct Nathan are you bored bored bored or do you
• 28:05
  love this? I kind of I kind of love it and
• 28:10
  it is I think because it's the last Gospel of the season 18
• 28:15
  approach to do and like at the time I was absolutely like
• 28:21
  bowled over by season 18 and it's still remains one of my
• 28:25
  favorite classic era seasons. and And it I guess what happens
• 28:31
  with season 18 is suddenly we get the music refreshed and the
• 28:36
  music for Castro Valley is stunningly beautiful like one of
• 28:40
  the very best things about it and I can harm you know, like
• 28:44
  there aren't there aren't that many classic era scores.
• 28:48
  I think that have the identity that this one has and that
• 28:51
  stroll in that Sunny board. Like I think that's kind of
• 28:56
  boring the way that people have said and it has you know, like
• 29:00
  it seems to me like a bad idea but I can't hate it because the
• 29:05
  music and the sunlight and and taking a Nissan bonding and you
• 29:10
  know the little door opening and painting his head out and saying
• 29:12
  something and then closing again, like all of that stuff is
• 29:15
  so fun and so lovely and so memorable like that's one of the
• 29:18
  most memorable scenes in Doctor Who for me so so there's that
• 29:22
  and the other thing too is that I think big need is amazing, but
• 29:27
  he's a really shit critic. And when he talks about his own
• 29:32
  work and what he's doing he's almost always wrong and so he
• 29:36
  doesn't bring science back to the show what he does bring his
• 29:39
  magic and you know the idea that the there's the tapestry like
• 29:45
  inside Castro Valley is a tapestry that depicts things
• 29:50
  that are happening in and around Castroville.
• 29:53
  This is an artificial work with an artificial work in it the
• 29:57
  relationships between sort of symbols and reality are all
• 30:00
  classic magic and none of season 18 is really about science
• 30:04
  science science scientists are in it, but what he does is he
• 30:09
  brings magic to the program but magic that has rules and I think
• 30:14
  that that's what he means when he says he's bringing science to
• 30:17
  the program that he creates worlds that have really clearly
• 30:21
  defined rules. And so we know how they operate
• 30:23
  I think you kind of alluded to that robbed the and so so I
• 30:28
  think this story Does heaps of things wrong, you know what I
• 30:32
  mean? Like if if you if you pitched it
• 30:35
  to someone and said all right, we're not gonna really see Pete
• 30:37
  until sort of the third episode. So everyone who's tuning in to
• 30:41
  see what he's like this week and you know, sorry you can wait for
• 30:46
  a few weeks to find out what he's going to be like, you know,
• 30:50
  that seems to be a mistake. I mean it worked in the
• 30:54
  Christmas Invasion, right? Yeah.
• 30:56
  Well, yes, but you tuned in that night and you got to see oh,
• 31:00
  that's a good that's a good it's different when it's all done on
• 31:06
  one night and and on flight through entirety.
• 31:11
  I said that you know, when Pat comes along for the you know,
• 31:16
  he's first new story he gets to confront the Daleks where is
• 31:21
  paid is, you know faced with with architecture, you know, is
• 31:26
  the kind of big threat And and that seems like a mistake as
• 31:32
  well, you know the doctors big hero moment, but I think is in
• 31:36
  is it in episode 3 where he sat with is he sat with Michael
• 31:39
  Sheard and and you know, he's drawing the square on the back,
• 31:44
  you know, like the square on the back of the mirror and he makes
• 31:48
  him realize that his world is artificial by by having him put
• 31:52
  where the Apothecary is, you know, and that's a really doctor
• 31:55
  is moment and that same really paid and that's kind of where
• 31:58
  the character lands but it just seems certainly at least by
• 32:01
  modern standards to Gentle and far far just not it's not an
• 32:09
  Arista. It's not a big hero moment in
• 32:11
  any sort of conventional sense. So like I think it makes some
• 32:16
  mistakes, but I can't hate it because I don't think it fails
• 32:21
  and and for me, I think you know, like I still have a great
• 32:25
  deal of kind of Goodwill towards these 18 and and because this is
• 32:30
  a such a sort of clique continuation of that.
• 32:33
  I still quite like this one this point unfortunately sort of ends
• 32:39
  here, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, I think it does and
• 32:43
  and I think it's amazing maybe Kinder, but then I think
• 32:46
  Brisbane me. Brought in Chris Bailey, didn't
• 32:49
  he? So that's yeah, I think so.
• 32:51
  Yeah. So this is the first one
• 32:54
  directed by Fiona coming as well.
• 32:55
  And and I think like I was chatting with with Peter from
• 33:02
  flight 382 the week about this and he said that what he thinks
• 33:06
  happens, isn't that the doctor who gets a massive increase in
• 33:09
  budget? But the producers decide to
• 33:13
  spend more money on the sets and that just seems like a
• 33:17
  ridiculously minor thing to happen.
• 33:20
  But you're a member how exhausted things like nightmare
• 33:25
  of Aiden and and all these, you know, just those sets are so
• 33:31
  boring to look at and one of the things that happened to me in
• 33:35
  season 18 is that each story has a really really strong visual
• 33:38
  identity. If you compare the corridors in
• 33:41
  full circle with us in horns of nine on you know, like it just
• 33:47
  the world's apart without costing a great deal of extra
• 33:51
  money. And I think he you know Castro
• 33:54
  Valley even though they can't achieve the Asher thing that you
• 33:58
  know, like a sort of Spanish village or something.
• 34:02
  It's those sets of beautiful and when we arrived in Castro
• 34:07
  Valley, we finally leave them set that we Of every way, you
• 34:12
  know the show just looks great. Yeah.
• 34:15
  Remember my adoption. You got it in Australia.
• 34:18
  Remember that that Year's Doctor Who annual?
• 34:20
  um I got Presumably the Christmas after but you know,
• 34:24
  but it had a couple of pages in it, which we just detailing the
• 34:28
  sets from castrovalva. And they looked amazingly
• 34:32
  beautiful on the page as well. And I just you know again, I
• 34:35
  think it was after it being broadcast.
• 34:37
  I'd already lost the video recording but I felt this again
• 34:40
  nostalgic warmth seeing just how beautiful those sets.
• 34:44
  In a way that she said, I mean it's impossible to match.
• 34:48
  I think is where they have to lie it as well because there's
• 34:55
  night time to scenes and there's dorms as a bit weird.
• 34:59
  Yeah, looking out the window and the morning whilst he can
• 35:03
  sleeping. Sorry, it's nicer and it's just
• 35:05
  lit beautifully. It's like the most artificial
• 35:08
  World we've ever been to and yes somehow it's the most realistic.
• 35:11
  Yeah, and that's a real Beauty and we never get the idea
• 35:16
  actually time passing but also sunsets and Dawn I mean and just
• 35:22
  yeah just I find such beauty to that sort of whistle fullness
• 35:30
  actually. You know, I think it's a very
• 35:33
  very adult thing with fullness Dr. Who very very rarely goes to
• 35:37
  something which is a subtle as wistful and there's a lovely
• 35:40
  sort of tone to that. That bit where it goes.
• 35:46
  Well, I find the doctor. Hey guys.
• 35:48
  Oh, yes, very soon doctor. Good night, and it's just so
• 35:52
  thoughtful the story. Yes on life, and I wasn't sure
• 35:56
  if you were done or not there. No, I don't know.
• 35:59
  Okay, right. No no, no, no, whatever you
• 36:05
  want. I I agree though that the like
• 36:10
  now to my taste now the scenes in the town of seemed like
• 36:13
  padding and like I want to get on with the story.
• 36:16
  I think the Titus basically he's really shouldn't be there to
• 36:19
  just sort of drop you in but the one the one person who's Take On
• 36:22
  The Tartan interested in his bed meats, and you know, he and as a
• 36:29
  kid, you know what it mean like at that age of 12 or whatever
• 36:31
  when I'm first watch this. I just think these absolutely
• 36:35
  magic and what I wanted to say and you know, you went for a
• 36:38
  whole, you know, whole Seasons without seeing the hardest
• 36:41
  things here, you know during the industry and I really wanted to
• 36:45
  see it and so, you know, I think spending two episodes in there
• 36:49
  as a baby excessive, but I loved that at the time so I have to
• 36:55
  say that sorry. I was like subtle suggestions.
• 36:57
  In the dialogue because as a kid, you know the bit where she
• 37:01
  goes it does feel like we're going downwards.
• 37:03
  Yeah, we're going deeper and deeper as if we we're heading
• 37:06
  down and you know in my head as a kid, I'd watch this and this
• 37:09
  was all on the slope and there. I mean, I watch it now and I
• 37:12
  don't know none of it is but he very cleverly suggests just the
• 37:16
  size of it. I think it's really well done.
• 37:19
  Sorry back to you. Yeah, I mean like because I
• 37:23
  think that I have a kind of feeling that that 80s Tardis is
• 37:26
  a big bore. You know what I mean in a bit
• 37:29
  same ish. But you do get you know that
• 37:32
  wonderful weird thing, you know with those columns and the thing
• 37:35
  that sexual for no reason and you don't know why it's there
• 37:38
  and that's kind of awesome. So you seeing these sort of
• 37:40
  little bits and pieces that used design elements from the normal
• 37:43
  console room, but just sort of kind of strange.
• 37:46
  I love the beat with teens lipstick melting like I think
• 37:50
  all of that sort of fabulous and this is I think to where my love
• 37:55
  affair with Tegan and javanka stars And she's probably at her
• 38:01
  worst in season 19 and she certainly our theory on flight
• 38:05
  390 is she gets drunk with Sir Robert in in Black Orchid and
• 38:10
  finally kind of learns how to play it and she's wonderful if
• 38:15
  like, okay and you know like Janet keeps me on the cheek once
• 38:18
  years ago and I've never watched it again.
• 38:20
  Like I love I adore Janet and I love I love Tegan as a kid and
• 38:27
  like these is where this begins and so that conversation at the
• 38:31
  beginning all of that interaction between T.
• 38:33
  And so where we really really want to see the doctor.
• 38:35
  I just can't hate that at all. I think it's really fun.
• 38:40
  Popular show let's get you what a full of this pack.
• 38:43
  Could you know how small fish and make this all about me?
• 38:49
  Because I have an extremely boring job.
• 38:51
  And so sometimes when I'm at work and I'll put things out on
• 38:55
  the shelf and my mind wanders. I've got to feel the time
• 38:58
  somehow so I find myself going for every single line of
• 39:01
  dialogue in a Doctor Who's story?
• 39:03
  And I have learned over the years.
• 39:06
  Castrovalva is the story. I know from beginning to end
• 39:09
  every you think you'll be the five doctors.
• 39:10
  I must have wore out that VHS when I was younger until the
• 39:13
  tracking was gone. I could tell you now I won't but
• 39:17
  I could take you through line by line every single podcast around
• 39:21
  that and I really love the dialogue and just for the fact
• 39:24
  that it keeps me company during very boring times in my life.
• 39:27
  That's my first reason my second reason is because I adore the
• 39:32
  incidental store in this it's just so gorgeous.
• 39:36
  It's like a piece of classical music as done on a synthesizer
• 39:39
  and every single time. I'm out in the woods and I live
• 39:43
  out in the sticks. You'll hear me going blah blah
• 39:46
  blah blah. Lalala the score for the story
• 39:54
  inside out back to front and trust me.
• 39:56
  There's a number of 80 stories where this and in this season as
• 40:00
  well where I'd like to forget the scores in highly so that's
• 40:04
  my number two reason. I my number three Reason is I
• 40:07
  had a wonderful day with Stephen B who came and visited me all
• 40:11
  the way from Australia and I took him to the rocks in Castro
• 40:15
  Valley. We put on purple high heels
• 40:18
  climbed up to the top of us to find the exact spot where Peter
• 40:24
  Davidson is looking down at those.
• 40:26
  Yeah, that's sort of vision of him looking down and I'll tell
• 40:30
  you this that location is Tiny. It's a tiny outcrop of rocks
• 40:36
  that they climbing up there and how Fiona coming makes that feel
• 40:41
  like a mountain is really really impressive.
• 40:44
  So I've got just a wonderful personal memory of it as well.
• 40:47
  There's a 100 reasons. Why?
• 40:49
  Oh, sorry, cool. Hello.
• 40:51
  No, no, no. No, I just thought I would let
• 40:53
  once you finish I need to tell you my Stephen B Castro's story.
• 40:56
  Oh, okay. Well, it's even be actually came
• 40:59
  on to my podcast. And he wanted to do a commentary
• 41:03
  on Castro Valley, but he wanted to talk about the book because
• 41:06
  he's into Doctor Who was the target novels and one of his
• 41:10
  favorite Target novels was castrovalva and how that book
• 41:14
  translates what's on TV into prose and goes into the ideas in
• 41:19
  in so much sort of deeper ways. He's a really really good writer
• 41:25
  of Books perspiration. I don't know if he did anything
• 41:27
  away from the targets. I think all of his targets are
• 41:30
  really great. Yeah, there's a great moment
• 41:32
  isn't there. The people is all so is Tegan
• 41:35
  who at that stage? Of course is you know, this is
• 41:38
  our first time away from Earth, you know in a massive crisis
• 41:42
  that even getting a chance really to sort of work out who
• 41:44
  she is what she's doing and she's stuck in that voice and
• 41:47
  she's looking in her handbag because something which will
• 41:50
  make her feel human again anything at all what she gets
• 41:54
  out that Mirage on some makeup and that's where in the mirror
• 41:58
  she sees reflected Castro of itself and that's where
• 42:01
  everything changes and that's so beautifully.
• 42:04
  I mean, he does stop us as well for two pages too, you know, the
• 42:07
  iaf stands for spring, you know, the was it called recovery sex
• 42:11
  file? Okay.
• 42:12
  He gives you a small essay on that as is one to do I do
• 42:17
  remember one thing that really stood out in the book was he
• 42:20
  changed he basically changes where the Cliffhanger is.
• 42:23
  Uh two episode three and he makes the Cliffhanger in the
• 42:26
  book The bit where the doctor says if there ever was a real
• 42:32
  history. So the fact the point where we
• 42:34
  learn that cash flow is a fiction which actually is
• 42:37
  probably a better conceptual Cliffhanger than recursive
• 42:40
  occlusions. Someone's manipulate Davidson
• 42:43
  looking very embarrassed as he's having to do it first
• 42:47
  Cliffhanger performance. There's a million reasons why I
• 42:50
  would like to but they're all personal to me.
• 42:52
  I'm putting it through Okay, so one one.
• 42:57
  I don't think I've just my first bit of TV that I ever wrote was
• 43:03
  an episode of born and bred just cristianos first TV shows my
• 43:07
  first box and I wrote an entire. sequence where James Bowman
• 43:13
  stuck in a wheelchair simply sew for fun.
• 43:18
  I could just have him quote lots of cash.
• 43:20
  Will Schindler's editor see what you're doing there.
• 43:33
  Yeah, there's a certain thing also.
• 43:37
  You know that for me my first bit of Television was actually
• 43:40
  directly being written by this business.
• 43:42
  It makes me also feel a lot of personal assistant was to go and
• 43:48
  seek out that episode now and don't it's really shit.
• 43:52
  I know for what was your Stephen B anecdote?
• 43:58
  So as we put out an episode, the first episode of flights are
• 44:02
  entirety that I ever edited. It was out Castro Valley episode
• 44:05
  and I was kind of negative. I start my hair clear that I'm
• 44:10
  not a big fan of the 80s like right up front and I talked
• 44:13
  about this because you know, one of the things about both the
• 44:17
  gospel and Castro Valley is that they're not structured like
• 44:19
  Doctor Who's really at all and now I like that, you know, like
• 44:24
  I actually, you know, things like, um, A modern Undead, you
• 44:28
  know what? I mean where you're just there
• 44:29
  for four episodes doing things but it's not really a Doctor Who
• 44:33
  episode in the same way that say Earth shock is even Earth shocks
• 44:36
  gonna sort of strange structure, but but it's just a bunch of
• 44:40
  things that happened for four episodes planet of fires.
• 44:42
  Another one Greenway. Does this all the time?
• 44:44
  Right? And I said, look, these are
• 44:47
  flawed and plot loss. You know, we had Legolas which
• 44:49
  is the end of an ear, but we've faffing about on the teams and
• 44:52
  you know doing things that seem like wasting time then
• 44:56
  Castroville comes along we need something.
• 44:57
  It's a big bang. It's the first new doctor for
• 45:00
  seven years. It's really going to land and we
• 45:02
  just sort of faff about for a few weeks and then Stephen B who
• 45:06
  you know, he's the first person I ever met through the through
• 45:10
  flight through entirety. The first person is sort of got
• 45:12
  into touch and we met in person. He mentioned it's been on
• 45:18
  Twitter. He said oh, you know in new
• 45:22
  episode of flights. Are you like he actually leads
• 45:29
  to it and to the whole thing and like I've spoken to Janet
• 45:37
  Fielding about Krispies made and I'm not gonna repeat what she
• 45:40
  said but beat me is not, you know, he's very thin skin type
• 45:47
  think and in any case he came back and said, you know the
• 45:51
  rambling this podcast I've ever listened to and mercy to call
• 45:55
  Castro Valley and plotless. And and we actually got back to
• 46:01
  him and said look, do you mind if we used that quote you did
• 46:07
  yes. You can cut it for any perceived
• 46:11
  padding. So now I just quoted on the
• 46:17
  website as just rambling us. That's all I What about your
• 46:24
  family don't have mention people.
• 46:26
  What do you know? Sorry Rod, we will get you but
• 46:32
  there's a wonderful moment in the new to who interview with
• 46:34
  Chris raised me where halfway through the podcast.
• 46:38
  He just decides to slip the phone into his pocket and make
• 46:41
  his wife a cup of tea. So that's all in there.
• 46:43
  I don't know if you listen to it.
• 46:44
  He's in there guy. Would you want darling?
• 46:46
  Yeah. Okay.
• 46:47
  I'm sorry. I forgot you was there, you
• 46:49
  know. Oh man, I love him.
• 46:51
  I love you will remember that on our series one review that we
• 46:55
  did last time. We actually had a comment from a
• 46:58
  certain option on a particular episode called Dalek.
• 47:01
  Oh, I think he's ever brought us.
• 47:08
  It's an embarrassing you did not showing with the majority on
• 47:16
  that one. It right well customer is going
• 47:22
  through because got two positive.
• 47:24
  So my vote is redundant, but I would put it through.
• 47:26
  Anyway, I'll make this very short because how can I follow
• 47:30
  what's been said? I think I said on the gospel and
• 47:33
  that I think bid Mead can write very good two-part stories.
• 47:37
  And then what he does is just add the first two episodes that
• 47:41
  have very little meaning or consequence for what to follow
• 47:43
  and I think he does that here as well to a degree, but I give it
• 47:47
  a pass in this story because I think why he's doing is is more
• 47:51
  clever. So for example episode one.
• 47:54
  Nathan you're right that we don't actually see our doctor
• 47:57
  pretty much until I'm so three or four but we do get Peter
• 48:01
  Davidson. He's pretty much front and
• 48:02
  center in that episode. Yes.
• 48:04
  He's not playing the doctor yet. But that character that actor is
• 48:08
  bankrupt on our screen and we see him on like the goblets
• 48:11
  where we sing. Goodbye to Tom who's been there
• 48:13
  for seven years on all we're focusing in on his comedy
• 48:16
  Vanessa here. We do get at least Peter.
• 48:20
  Well, it's not it's not it's not a very nice.
• 48:22
  Goodbye to Thomas after seven years.
• 48:25
  But hey, we do get you know Peter Dave's and the fifth
• 48:28
  doctor is front and center and we do see him go through
• 48:31
  everything from escaping from the virus project through to
• 48:34
  that kind of confused State and all those impressions of past
• 48:37
  doctors, which he does pretty well and then we do get by the
• 48:39
  end of episode when we get a little bit of sense of stability
• 48:42
  once he gets into that zero room and he starts to calm down and
• 48:45
  all the outside influences are cut off.
• 48:47
  So we see a little bit of him and I love the fact that he's
• 48:50
  almost like snakes we see him shedding his past costume and
• 48:53
  picking up and you outfit now, I think that works really well.
• 48:56
  I think Dave's and one of our comments says that you know,
• 48:59
  it's great. They shot this forth because
• 49:00
  he's got a bit of confidence and he's about by now because if you
• 49:03
  compare this with some of the way, he plays some of the
• 49:05
  reactions and emotions in four doomsday, which are a little bit
• 49:09
  odd in places. He was much more confident in
• 49:12
  the short in what he's doing. So I love all that stuff in
• 49:15
  episode one. I think that works really well.
• 49:17
  Do you think that was a worst choice?
• 49:18
  And yeah, I mean because you get in confident and then you get
• 49:22
  him at Sea and then you get in mildly at Sea and then You game
• 49:26
  getting more it's very bizarre when you watch it in succession,
• 49:28
  but I think listen to him as well why it was 29 when he got
• 49:32
  the part wasn't me? I mean, he's made he's made no
• 49:34
  bones of the fact that he didn't know how to play.
• 49:36
  He was really nervous going into doing the role questioning
• 49:39
  whether he was the right person for the job.
• 49:41
  So I think yeah, I think it was really clever to give him a
• 49:44
  couple of stories to settle and because I say in four to
• 49:47
  Doomsday play some scenes will get to it.
• 49:48
  He does play some scenes quite oddly.
• 49:50
  He's got some strange mannerisms in there.
• 49:52
  So it's first story. Yeah, he's much more subtle than
• 49:55
  a short I think doing it forth. A second reason was the world of
• 49:59
  castrovalva. Like you guys have all said I
• 50:01
  loved it. I loved the world of
• 50:03
  castrovalva. I think it's very clever.
• 50:04
  We've got a great set of guest actors from you know, Derek
• 50:08
  wearing through to Michael shared.
• 50:10
  They're all give really solid performances Nathan you picked
• 50:14
  out the scene in episode 4 where they draw the map of gastro
• 50:17
  valve and there are such a beautiful scene watching these
• 50:21
  fiction fictional people gradually come into the
• 50:24
  realization that have been conned and something's wrong
• 50:27
  with their world and they've not seen it before and they do it
• 50:30
  twice with both characters. I think that plays really well
• 50:33
  as very clever way of getting that story across to us.
• 50:36
  And thirdly the production is great production year with all
• 50:39
  talked about how to Kings little skull Jovi even sang it
• 50:42
  beautifully on Maya the sets us. He said Nathan look, right.
• 50:46
  I love the fact that he can hear bird song There's constantly
• 50:50
  annoys the bird song when they're outside and what would
• 50:52
  be kind of outside Courtyards? It's just a little touch but you
• 50:55
  don't kind of get that detail in a lot of other.
• 50:57
  Stories, I love the fact they've dressed Shard of one up to look
• 51:00
  like he's the big bad. He's in Black.
• 51:02
  He's got a mustache. So he's obviously the villain so
• 51:06
  that they're playing on that. Once you've got the elderly
• 51:08
  portrayal in white just to throw you off kilter.
• 51:11
  Maybe you don't recognize its Anthony only under that makeup.
• 51:14
  I don't think there's very hard to see him.
• 51:16
  There you go. The first time I lost it I had
• 51:19
  no clue. I think yeah.
• 51:21
  Yeah, I think of all the times that we see a new dress up.
• 51:25
  It's the one which has has the best reason and also because of
• 51:30
  the whole reason and if any like it feels like it's part of that
• 51:34
  world, but also again, it's that thing I can you know about
• 51:37
  gentlemen the portrait is gorgeous.
• 51:40
  He's a lovely it feels genuinely heartbreaking.
• 51:44
  When he's not what you think he is.
• 51:46
  He's not like so James are strong.
• 51:48
  So James are strong King's demons.
• 51:51
  We just think he's a knob and he turns out he's a no.
• 51:55
  Well, there's a really upsets you and I think the complete is
• 51:59
  a lovely I think Amy's genuinely brilliant.
• 52:03
  Yeah, because I mean look at his students right?
• 52:07
  He's lovely. The same trick in Utopia doesn't
• 52:12
  he? We love exactly Anna.
• 52:14
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 52:15
  In fact, I'd be surprised if that wasn't an influencer.
• 52:19
  No, I mean look at how differently Amy plays the poor
• 52:21
  tree. It's a very subtle quiet
• 52:24
  performance and compare that as you rightly say with his
• 52:27
  performance that he gives us Sushi yields.
• 52:29
  I mean that absolute you think it was a different actor that
• 52:32
  world's apart know. It's like those little details
• 52:35
  really sneaks into David's room and he goes past my bedtime.
• 52:39
  You know, I just like a real person.
• 52:41
  Yeah, absolutely. So yeah absolutely catch the
• 52:46
  ball. It's the first one to go
• 52:47
  through. Can I just say yes one last
• 52:49
  point about Castro Valley because no one will ever believe
• 52:51
  me, but it is only on my last watch which was for this that I
• 52:56
  finally saw Matthew Warehouse is stiffy what he's in that
• 52:59
  enormous way. Okay, it is absolutely there.
• 53:03
  I've been calling people last for years.
• 53:04
  Yeah, you can absolutely say that.
• 53:06
  Yeah, it is so low at the time but I have to be honest, but I
• 53:10
  watched this because I'm very very shy and and actually and
• 53:17
  quite virgin. I actually thinks at the top
• 53:22
  half of the screen. So I've actually never seen I
• 53:25
  think you're better off if I'm on it, you know, it's strange it
• 53:29
  remains in. I mean I've seen every doctor
• 53:31
  episode would do this except for those bits.
• 53:33
  I just wouldn't have forgiven myself.
• 53:37
  If I hadn't invited to the smartest people are no onto this
• 53:41
  podcast and not talked about Matthew whales this is so
• 53:43
  important and I'm sure I'm sure that will be more growing
• 53:49
  discussion before we finish this podcast, but I move on story too
• 53:53
  because we're 45 minutes in and we've only covered one.
• 53:56
  So yeah, let's go to your first story pick a story and Champion
• 54:00
  it. I actually want to do the very
• 54:05
  next one for to Doomsday and I want to hear the song.
• 54:10
  It really is really careful. Um, so he so I think I think
• 54:18
  part of the problem. It's obviously kind of the first
• 54:21
  one that we shoot that season it does have some things in favor.
• 54:26
  So I'm going to do one good thing and probably I'll think of
• 54:29
  Five to eight bad things after that.
• 54:31
  Um, so I think that the set looks amazing, you know what I
• 54:36
  mean? Like we've had lots and lots of
• 54:38
  space ships and things I think the design is really great
• 54:41
  because this has a really really like striking and Vivid look to
• 54:49
  it, like all of the details all of those little control panels
• 54:52
  and controls, you know, they've got they've got like vacuum
• 54:55
  formed things that stuck up on the walls and stuff and there's
• 54:59
  there's video in you know, some of the some of it and all of
• 55:03
  those, you know, the the equipment and stuff all feels of
• 55:08
  a piece. I love that scene where
• 55:11
  Enlightenment and persuasion Rock up in the new outfits.
• 55:14
  You know, I think that they look fabulous.
• 55:16
  It just looked very 80s and very contemporary at the time and
• 55:20
  much much more expensive and interesting.
• 55:22
  Maybe you said about you know, how there's somebody focusing on
• 55:25
  the set design and how that's a very positive thing.
• 55:27
  This is the exception to the rule.
• 55:29
  However, where they were only focusing on the set design and I
• 55:33
  didn't think about anything else at all.
• 55:36
  So is that yes, well, so say I think that this is one of Pete's
• 55:42
  and maybe he's only genuinely kind of terrible performance in
• 55:45
  the role because he doesn't quite know what he's doing and
• 55:47
  when he sort of comes in and like there are moments there are
• 55:51
  great moments of you know think for him with the business with
• 55:54
  them and Optical and stuff like that and it's paid he's
• 55:57
  magnificent. I mean, he's one of the best
• 55:58
  actors ever to play the doctor, but he clearly doesn't know what
• 56:01
  he's doing here and that thing where he's looking like is that
• 56:04
  horrible stuff with Nissa, you know, he comes in and says, oh,
• 56:07
  you know some technical thing it's Innovative exciting stuff
• 56:11
  and it's kind of what am I watching?
• 56:13
  These are souls just gonna go around the Galaxy admiring like
• 56:16
  made up technology now to interfere raw material again,
• 56:21
  like I just like what are we doing?
• 56:24
  What are we even doing this and then and then just how of an
• 56:28
  auctions they make and drink immediately like this.
• 56:31
  Why why you know, why is he such a prick instantly and then A
• 56:37
  poor Janet like it's so embarrassing to watch.
• 56:39
  I just like those late scenes with her losing her sheet in the
• 56:44
  Tardis her best watch from another room or like another
• 56:46
  suburb altogether. I went really fishy and I feel
• 56:50
  like it was sort of having the orgasm over the console that
• 56:53
  went viral this year. Everybody was retweeting that as
• 56:56
  like the state of the world and Janet Fielding a mess over the
• 56:59
  console. Yeah, like that's embarrassing
• 57:03
  and it's not really fun to watch.
• 57:08
  And and then there's the Casual racism as well, which I just
• 57:11
  think is super super unfortunate and it like he like people comes
• 57:16
  your Racist uncle when you know Lin Fu 2 introduces himself,
• 57:20
  it's but walk don't embarrass yourself in front of Burke walk.
• 57:24
  And and you know, oh really you look in the best of health to me
• 57:29
  is just that it's like it was a Terrence Dudley's an old man at
• 57:33
  this point and and even like the Australian Aboriginal thing just
• 57:38
  shoots me. Do you know what I mean?
• 57:39
  Like these ease, you know, like a civilization that's lived on
• 57:45
  this continent for tens of thousands of years that has many
• 57:49
  many different languages and groups and like complex
• 57:54
  interrelationships. They're not just like it's not
• 57:57
  just on Australian Aboriginal who is, you know, kind of
• 58:00
  essentially interchangeable every other one and you've got
• 58:05
  one. I think he really got one
• 58:07
  active. Actually an Aboriginal person
• 58:09
  like an indigenous Australian person and ever that's kind of
• 58:12
  Indian or white or you know in the background of the shot
• 58:16
  because we can't really afford to it would just never occur to
• 58:20
  us that we needed to do that back in 1982.
• 58:23
  And so that's just stupid. You know.
• 58:26
  Yeah, he's an Australian originally, of course I can talk
• 58:28
  to is just like that's just beyond embarrassing.
• 58:31
  I think she's in the room. Honestly, I love her so much but
• 58:39
  and and and Dudley is so boring. Like he's just he's just kind of
• 58:44
  a bit terrible and the one thing that when we first did canine
• 58:49
  and Company for the for the podcast one thing that Todd
• 58:52
  notice is that Dudley constantly has people hanging up phones and
• 58:56
  walking through doors. And so just the number of shots
• 59:00
  of people just walking through doors, you know, it's going to
• 59:04
  become a massive feature of latest stories these days but
• 59:07
  there is just a lot of just fucking wandering around from
• 59:10
  place to place going on in this story rather.
• 59:14
  You know, what actual kind of you think that will be able to
• 59:18
  handle that but there's a scene where Teagan goes Look and then
• 59:22
  it comes to the door and nothing's happened yet and then
• 59:25
  the door opens and someone walks through and you know, what is
• 59:29
  happening That's a classic Teagan superpower ability.
• 59:32
  Oh when he falls down. Yeah.
• 59:35
  Yeah. So like the other thing too is
• 59:45
  that I spend a lot of time as a kid trying to make the maths
• 59:48
  work and that irritated me as well.
• 59:49
  Do you know what I mean? We get the links of time and how
• 59:52
  he's doubly at each time and stuff and they're trying to do
• 59:55
  the sums in my head and never accepted by managing to make it
• 59:58
  work. So I don't know like, you know
• 1:00:01
  Stratford John's Stratford John's, isn't it?
• 1:00:03
  Yeah. Yeah, like he's magnificent
• 1:00:06
  black. He's sort of wonderful that sort
• 1:00:09
  of rather oddly played Cliffhanger with we're going to
• 1:00:13
  reveals. He's you know sister on a Jesus
• 1:00:15
  me it's kind of wild wild but But it's a bit of a dad.
• 1:00:23
  I think. Okay, let's go to the listeners
• 1:00:26
  comments. Michael Mills says this has such
• 1:00:29
  an immense premise. It's astonishing how low stakes
• 1:00:32
  the whole thing feels by the latter half.
• 1:00:34
  Secretly want people to love this and you Parkinson says a
• 1:00:37
  giant frog wants to take over the Earth.
• 1:00:39
  Adrik is a dick again. Tekken becomes a fashion
• 1:00:42
  designer and the doctor plays catch in space.
• 1:00:44
  It's all a bit of a mess. And then there's endless
• 1:00:47
  cultural displays and utterly forgettable story.
• 1:00:50
  Been it. That big list of negatives at
• 1:00:53
  the beginning from here. They're all great things like
• 1:00:56
  that. You want people so Jack Corey
• 1:01:04
  says as most will say this is a harmful run around with less
• 1:01:07
  interesting characters and some bizarre.
• 1:01:09
  Racial undertones. Really the only member of the
• 1:01:12
  ethnic groups who has any sense is the enlightened Greek white
• 1:01:16
  man, and all of the Africans and Asians were promised to be
• 1:01:19
  leaders of their ethnic groups and they gladly went along with
• 1:01:22
  it. Luke Simms Jenkins and they are
• 1:01:26
  remind everybody listening to this episode is the one that
• 1:01:28
  went after the whole of season 10.
• 1:01:30
  He hated all of it. So naturally rather loves this.
• 1:01:33
  I don't mind the slow pace. He says sure it's not perfect.
• 1:01:37
  But Monarch is a great villain and Davison is great.
• 1:01:40
  Michael storm says how strong heart will Vibes it would
• 1:01:43
  definitely getting lots of reference to harmel him.
• 1:01:44
  Don't quite see himself. Sadly Douglas script is full of
• 1:01:48
  1955 misogyny and dubious approaches to race the trio of
• 1:01:52
  villains a well-performed and good contrast to each other but
• 1:01:55
  the star is Philip lockers by gone who gives a Wonderful World
• 1:01:59
  weary performance as the guy who regrets what he's got himself
• 1:02:02
  involved in Peter old I get this slack because it was the first
• 1:02:06
  filmed General premise is actually very clever.
• 1:02:09
  If done today with CGI, it would look amazing looks amazing then
• 1:02:13
  but the conclusion is rather silly David Gus be practices
• 1:02:17
  unloved by so many people but it's not that bad.
• 1:02:19
  Some lovely ideas are sense of scale with the spaceship and
• 1:02:23
  Stratford John. Just having a good time.
• 1:02:24
  It's a shame that it's also got some of the worst performances
• 1:02:27
  by series regulars we ever see Jason Thompson.
• 1:02:31
  Well it exists. I've never found much more to
• 1:02:34
  say about it Stratford John's is great under all that great.
• 1:02:37
  Oh that green. Latex later.
• 1:02:39
  Good grief. Awesome.
• 1:02:40
  And again Stratford John's Star Trek, right?
• 1:02:43
  This does feel very Like a Star Trek episode a bad one throwing
• 1:02:52
  the most lethal toxin in the universe across the room doesn't
• 1:02:54
  seem like the most sensible plan of the doctors all the UK number
• 1:03:00
  once said, this would have been a perfectly good story to start
• 1:03:03
  the season with a few tweaks the traditional story to remind
• 1:03:06
  everyone this is still the same show Darren lit roundels.
• 1:03:10
  I hated this on First Watch but bit by bit.
• 1:03:12
  I've warmed to it Davidson brings such freshness.
• 1:03:15
  And I finally he's initial performance to be so enjoyably
• 1:03:18
  colorful. I won't pretend it's any good
• 1:03:20
  especially with these companions, but it's watchable.
• 1:03:23
  I'm pinson's just dull the spike strap for John's Philip lock and
• 1:03:28
  the legendary book Walk teens artist skills might make me
• 1:03:31
  laughing at their host. Some wasting her fashion design
• 1:03:34
  talents. Absolutely Madness artistic
• 1:03:38
  talents Ian Banks a mix of Brilliance and batshit with some
• 1:03:42
  great ideas handled terribly. I love the sense of mystery in
• 1:03:45
  the first two episodes wandering around the spaceship and meeting
• 1:03:48
  people but despite the bog standard super villain plot in
• 1:03:51
  the second half and you're nice as it looks great, but the story
• 1:03:54
  is a bit dull stratagems is great as Monaco just the right
• 1:03:57
  amount of archness in his performance most amount of
• 1:04:00
  comments we've had for one story electronic down a decent story,
• 1:04:03
  but with some awful characterization particularly of
• 1:04:06
  adrik who is suddenly very sexist.
• 1:04:08
  Martin says utterly deranged but stylish and appealingly weird.
• 1:04:13
  You can see that having this many companions is causing
• 1:04:16
  problems and finally if Chapman wildly weird characterization,
• 1:04:20
  but some wit an interesting ideas and great visuals.
• 1:04:25
  Okay. So Rob has Nathan's impression
• 1:04:28
  play against Fortune's day one you over.
• 1:04:31
  Maybe a bit actually. I mean it's all because I do
• 1:04:35
  love this season. and I always you know and And yeah, I've
• 1:04:39
  always struggled to feel much affection for to Dooms.
• 1:04:44
  They even though I cannot argue it and I'm gonna give it a go.
• 1:04:49
  I still come back. To my my basic core belief that
• 1:04:54
  Terence Dudley is probably the worst writer who's ever written
• 1:04:58
  for Doctor Who and it's about I think it was I mean, I think if
• 1:05:03
  part one makes him interesting is that I think everything here,
• 1:05:06
  but does on Doctor Who is like a misremembered idea of what God
• 1:05:09
  wants to yes so back Orchid, which I have a lot more time for
• 1:05:13
  a little argue. Is a complete misunderstanding
• 1:05:19
  of how historical work and it's nothing like that at all.
• 1:05:22
  But actually that has its own charm for to Doomsday people
• 1:05:26
  often have been bringing up things like a heart.
• 1:05:29
  It's nothing like a heart story. The only way that but it feels
• 1:05:33
  like doggy thinks it might be you know the way in which you
• 1:05:36
  can. the thing which is interesting is the is the it's
• 1:05:42
  that emphasis upon investigation of an area which I actually do
• 1:05:46
  find quite winning, you know the idea that you live on a
• 1:05:49
  spaceship. And again as this 11 year old
• 1:05:53
  watching the show who didn't watch science fiction spending
• 1:05:57
  that time going around the spaceship was for me.
• 1:06:01
  Genuinely rather exciting because I hadn't seen a
• 1:06:04
  spaceship before and I did find that environment quite
• 1:06:06
  interesting to process. I think that you know that the
• 1:06:10
  fact that you've got it feels weird now that you've got the an
• 1:06:15
  episode ending where you have to shock reveal that something can
• 1:06:18
  be an Android and then you and then you remember that we had
• 1:06:22
  stories called The Androids of tarmo.
• 1:06:24
  Look at the Android Invasion Androids being treated by
• 1:06:27
  Terence Dudley is if this is a new concept That nobody has ever
• 1:06:31
  heard of before in any form. It's not even like you know,
• 1:06:35
  what heard about him. It's like it's like he's
• 1:06:38
  invented the possibility. It could be mechanical man and
• 1:06:43
  my God how many people because it's new to him.
• 1:06:48
  I know it's a very very contradictory response.
• 1:06:50
  But as a result, I find myself being quite Charmed because they
• 1:06:55
  it's it's obviously making tons and tons of mistakes and at
• 1:07:00
  times it's extraordinary dark. I do think this genuinely
• 1:07:04
  nothing else ever in the show quite like partly because it
• 1:07:09
  does amazing things by having some breaks of Mayan dance,
• 1:07:14
  which is weird. I mean if you were ever to say
• 1:07:17
  things like Doctor Who's story and we're gonna Pat it out with
• 1:07:21
  bits of Mayan dance dancing and The strangely dugast form of
• 1:07:27
  Roman, you know said moment where someone gets to stabbed in
• 1:07:31
  the chest and it's you know care.
• 1:07:33
  I mean, I was a very nice living year old the idea of anybody
• 1:07:38
  being stabbed maybe really went and at that moment I just and
• 1:07:44
  then he dies. It doesn't really die.
• 1:07:46
  Um, I mean I'm making it the thing is this I went into that
• 1:07:49
  as a positive as I'm talking to it's obviously inactive.
• 1:07:53
  And yet I do find that one of the things I love about 10 study
• 1:07:57
  stuff and actually and you do get it actually if you just
• 1:08:00
  target books. He's target books are so not the
• 1:08:04
  hack work that you've imagined. He must be from the television
• 1:08:07
  episode. He is actually really
• 1:08:09
  interesting right now for King's Day being the one that is done
• 1:08:12
  by tense. So we don't get that something
• 1:08:15
  sense when you just thinking. Oh my God, this is really
• 1:08:19
  intelligence. So what do they just feels like
• 1:08:22
  it's a long worthy slog with some genuinely very good actors
• 1:08:28
  in those strangely not from the regular cars.
• 1:08:32
  The thing that I will defend and I'm going to come to is that I
• 1:08:35
  as a positive I've ridden down. attribute Contagion Because
• 1:08:41
  genuinely interesting. I mean, honestly, it's really
• 1:08:46
  interesting that you've got in a Doctor Who episode?
• 1:08:50
  A companion who goes over to the side of the bill?
• 1:08:55
  Simply because he's convinced by the arguments and it's not mind
• 1:09:00
  control. I mean Advocates doing that left
• 1:09:01
  right and Center. He fakes it in Kinder a week
• 1:09:04
  later. He was really last week with the
• 1:09:06
  master. Yeah, I think he's sort of
• 1:09:09
  Faking. I mean there's a way in which
• 1:09:11
  important things, you know, it's genuinely interesting that
• 1:09:15
  you've got somebody actually behaving and he's not human but
• 1:09:18
  in a very very human way in need to be convinced by Davidson,
• 1:09:21
  actually, I find quite an interesting thing to do and
• 1:09:24
  another way. Having come out and I know it's
• 1:09:28
  all the reasons I love cash flow.
• 1:09:29
  But in in reverse the idea that you suddenly got Teagan on this
• 1:09:34
  spaceship. Just losing it.
• 1:09:37
  Having this really human response to the town of this and
• 1:09:41
  getting hysterical and just wanting to take off because
• 1:09:44
  she's that scared. I think it's one of the most I
• 1:09:48
  mean that's nothing again. It feels like a really human
• 1:09:51
  personal thing which you so very get into that.
• 1:09:54
  I find that very very I I agree with Nathan it's uncomfortable
• 1:09:58
  to watch it's also and it makes tea good for As his article, but
• 1:10:04
  it made me suddenly also think of them as far more like real
• 1:10:07
  people. and for that reason alone I find for to Doomsday,
• 1:10:11
  although it's I think the least enjoyable story of the Season by
• 1:10:16
  country Marvel I do think it's it's very eccentricity is is a
• 1:10:22
  reason that I would say that that strange unique. makes me
• 1:10:27
  actually want to preserve it because I just think there's
• 1:10:30
  simply nothing else like there is there's no other story like
• 1:10:35
  this. Thank goodness, you know, but
• 1:10:38
  don't use I mean very yeah wallpaper Dole Direction sets.
• 1:10:45
  But but at the same time I have to say because it's one of my
• 1:10:48
  favorite bad moments in Doctor Who because I just hate it
• 1:10:52
  again. I'm trying to set it as a It's
• 1:10:58
  that bit. We have got everybody from from
• 1:11:00
  a different culture and they're watching the bit where the
• 1:11:04
  doctor is throwing his, you know, cricket ball and then he
• 1:11:09
  gets to the Tardis and they all go.
• 1:11:10
  Hey you she's doing anyway, you just think.
• 1:11:19
  Oh, I just can't back to them and they're all just sort of
• 1:11:26
  looking at each other like oh 10 seconds.
• 1:11:28
  And again, this is me trying to be positive.
• 1:11:36
  I think it's I think because it's always so Davis's worst
• 1:11:40
  performance. Ever in the show makes it
• 1:11:44
  interesting because he's the most reliable doctor and he's
• 1:11:48
  one moment. I genuinely I've been watching
• 1:11:51
  this one moment. Where it's an episode one. and
• 1:11:57
  he just Asks, pretty much adjectives to calculate an
• 1:12:02
  incredibly Simple Song which is you know, what's 100 Generations
• 1:12:06
  25 years. How was that 2500 years and it's
• 1:12:10
  himself realizing. A child of four could have
• 1:12:15
  worked that out and I find that very very I think Davidson
• 1:12:19
  catches that very well. I mean, what's what's lovely
• 1:12:22
  about them to do is days is you can see an actor who was taken
• 1:12:26
  on the role who isn't sure he should be doing it. realizing
• 1:12:30
  he's not in a very good or interesting story, but still
• 1:12:33
  trying to find moments of invention the very play with and
• 1:12:37
  yeah, I mean, obviously I'm aware that I'm aware that
• 1:12:41
  there's no way I can't say really when it comes to it, but
• 1:12:45
  I do find us as a result of that sheer.
• 1:12:48
  If you did give him four to Doomsday to to trout in season
• 1:12:52
  six or pertains season 11, you know that they've just done the
• 1:12:56
  equivalent of saying yep give up here is just wanting not to
• 1:13:03
  embarrass himself and that's what result there's some sort of
• 1:13:06
  there's a very interesting Collision of stuff going on.
• 1:13:10
  It's a super important skill for Davidson to have going forward
• 1:13:13
  isn't it to be able to kind of risk you terrible lines and to
• 1:13:17
  be able to find something to do Insane that are badly written
• 1:13:21
  here. He's got a run into Saints and
• 1:13:27
  suggested there's lots of drama going on.
• 1:13:28
  No, I think he's extraordinary. I mean, I really meant it when I
• 1:13:33
  said that I think he's one of the best actors ever to play the
• 1:13:35
  character and it's because he's always doing something and Um,
• 1:13:42
  and he he really he the everyone talks about him being blind and
• 1:13:47
  darling stuff. But for me, he's exasperated
• 1:13:49
  that that's the Doctor Who is kind of a bit exasperated all
• 1:13:54
  the time and you can see why he would be particularly with the
• 1:13:58
  people that he's lumbered with this, you know in this story.
• 1:14:03
  Yeah, so, you know like they're all sorts of things to say about
• 1:14:07
  this year, but he is magnificent except for here.
• 1:14:12
  Okay, so Rob isn't putting it through so I'm gonna go know
• 1:14:15
  what I'm gonna save this one. Oh, you might think I'm gonna be
• 1:14:19
  a soul. I've Got a Feeling Joe might be
• 1:14:25
  burning it. Hi.
• 1:14:26
  How strong? I like if and you've covered a
• 1:14:30
  lot of the reasons, but maybe it's the Nostalgia.
• 1:14:32
  I don't know but I still see some good things in there Nathan
• 1:14:35
  you're appreciated. This is a teacher.
• 1:14:36
  I've got two store. I was 15 when this one so I got
• 1:14:40
  two teacher stories from this. The first one was on the Night
• 1:14:44
  episode 2 went out. My parents went to parents
• 1:14:47
  evening and apparently my maths teacher didn't talk to them
• 1:14:51
  about how well I've done in maths that year at all or where
• 1:14:54
  my problems with he just I didn't know he liked Doctor Who
• 1:14:57
  is a closet Doctor Who fun he spent his entire slot with my
• 1:15:00
  parents telling them how amazing doctor who had been that night
• 1:15:03
  for episode two and how we'd had to come late to parents evening
• 1:15:07
  because he couldn't bear to turn the TV off and leave it.
• 1:15:10
  So it was doing something. My second teaching story was
• 1:15:14
  after episode 4 I hated physics. I managed to divert my physics
• 1:15:20
  teacher for an entire hour and get him to talk about was it
• 1:15:24
  possible to throw a spaceship to throw a cricket and wasting an
• 1:15:29
  entire hour now I would thought I would have got some cute off
• 1:15:32
  from the schoolmate for doing that but they just thought I was
• 1:15:34
  a weird nerd for talking about Doctor Who but hey wasted an
• 1:15:38
  hour and he said it could happen.
• 1:15:40
  It was theoretically possible. But my real reasons for it you
• 1:15:44
  guys have kind of touched on a lot the reasons but I'm going to
• 1:15:47
  put a positive spin on it. First reason is this is one of
• 1:15:51
  those rare Stories That season actually goes to the effort of
• 1:15:54
  using all the companions. he oddly oddly and I don't think
• 1:16:01
  yeah, so in some places badly but also in some places quite
• 1:16:05
  well, but the problem is it doesn't get followed through
• 1:16:08
  there's a lack of consistency in character from story to story.
• 1:16:12
  I think that's part of the problem as well as well as the
• 1:16:14
  fact that some of its bad. So we've got a really unusual
• 1:16:17
  Tardis crew here. We've got three Companions and I
• 1:16:19
  think correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's the only time
• 1:16:22
  where we got three companions when none of them have got any
• 1:16:25
  relationship or common knowledge So, you know Joe this time we
• 1:16:31
  got gray and Ryan together Ian and Barbara go back to the
• 1:16:34
  beginning. They got relationship here.
• 1:16:35
  We've got three I said in the beginning disparate juveniles,
• 1:16:38
  they've got no relationships. So why would they all get along
• 1:16:42
  and be charming and have a good relationship short?
• 1:16:45
  There's going to be cracks and divisions and we didn't really
• 1:16:48
  see that in Castroville that much but here we do start see
• 1:16:52
  that Rabbi agree with you. I love the scene where Tegan
• 1:16:55
  runs back to the towers. She's in his sterics.
• 1:16:56
  I agree with you. I think that is to me that's
• 1:16:59
  more realistic than her kind of quiet composure and Castroville
• 1:17:03
  where she just gets on with it doesn't kind of freaked out by
• 1:17:06
  the fact that this is her first Alien Planet here.
• 1:17:10
  Feels more realistic overall. I don't think she knows how to
• 1:17:13
  play it that. He's a little bit embarrassing
• 1:17:20
  but I think for helpless the season she figures out the tone
• 1:17:24
  to pitch. Yes, but it takes her a couple
• 1:17:27
  of stories she brings it down. Where is he still playing as if
• 1:17:30
  she's on stage doesn't show she didn't like that season 24
• 1:17:34
  School of production now you are.
• 1:17:39
  I love Bonnie. I have to say I think this plays
• 1:17:46
  a lot and this is strange. She gets to show that she's
• 1:17:48
  intelligent, but she's also quite practical as well the way
• 1:17:51
  she uses the Sonic to stop the execution of the doctor at the
• 1:17:55
  end of the third episode. Adrich.
• 1:17:57
  Yeah. Adrik is a problem.
• 1:17:58
  That is then have we not seen some of this before when we
• 1:18:02
  first met him. I was there receive his cocky.
• 1:18:04
  He was arrogant. He was dismissive of women.
• 1:18:07
  It's kind of the same Facebook problem is we've had team
• 1:18:10
  stories in between Rays growing and come to respect the doctor
• 1:18:13
  and hear all of us who said Rob he's sucking prepared to drop
• 1:18:16
  all of that and go off with Monarch that feels a bit.
• 1:18:19
  That's quite hard to swallow and now strict because a lot like,
• 1:18:28
  you know, it's also the yeah, he grew to love the doctor, but
• 1:18:32
  he's now being presented with this young generated version.
• 1:18:37
  and you can see a sort of way in which he's questioning that you
• 1:18:40
  know, because the doctor doesn't have the authority he wants did
• 1:18:44
  and I think that there was a way maybe about a lot of the
• 1:18:47
  terminal with the companionship. Comes out of the fact that the
• 1:18:52
  doctor hasn't yet found it, which is true of Davidson's
• 1:18:56
  performance as well. But it does there for me.
• 1:18:58
  I mean, I actually really like Patrick it's partly because I
• 1:19:00
  think that the obnoxious feels real so I am what I'm
• 1:19:04
  interrupted. No, no.
• 1:19:05
  No, you're right. And I think I'm going back to
• 1:19:08
  what I said before as well. I just I think part of the
• 1:19:09
  problem is they don't carry that characterization through to the
• 1:19:13
  next story or it's not follow through from The Last Story
• 1:19:16
  every story presents these companions slightly different
• 1:19:19
  and that's problematic. But I think just for the fact
• 1:19:22
  that it uses all companions because adrich isn't you know,
• 1:19:24
  he's out of most a castrovalva Nyssa we lose in most of Earth
• 1:19:28
  shock and definitely Kinder and she sidelined for the
• 1:19:31
  visitation. This is really one of the few
• 1:19:33
  times we see the three of them together.
• 1:19:34
  So I'm putting it through for that person that happens between
• 1:19:38
  it. So even result in this story in
• 1:19:40
  a scene in this story Teagan Frozen to the floor to a point
• 1:19:43
  where he is not conscious and they don't even have a
• 1:19:47
  Reconciliation at the end. Oh, so sorry, but you are up in
• 1:19:50
  episode 3 Let's go on adventures again.
• 1:19:52
  It's so weird that they were going to be fair, you know, very
• 1:19:56
  next story. He does go out of his way in
• 1:19:58
  episode 4 Kingdom to say thank you.
• 1:20:00
  Eric. Say was saying we didn't pay
• 1:20:04
  that off in the last story. You know, I mean one could
• 1:20:08
  argue. That's the resolution.
• 1:20:10
  I'm gonna make you feel really And my second reason for putting
• 1:20:19
  it through is Monarch. I love the fact that he thinks
• 1:20:21
  he's God. So back in 1977.
• 1:20:23
  We couldn't have zoan and thinking it was God, but here it
• 1:20:27
  slips through one noticed Monique thinks he's God and I
• 1:20:29
  think that to me I really liked that character because I think
• 1:20:32
  it makes it different than just someone that wants to go and
• 1:20:35
  conquest and take over Earth. He's got this odd obsession with
• 1:20:39
  traveling back in time to meet himself, but the things that
• 1:20:43
  gives struck for John something more interesting to play the
• 1:20:45
  fact, he's quite fanatically, he's quite obsessive and like
• 1:20:48
  those discussions with Enlightenment when he accused of
• 1:20:51
  bust for me for talking about the human soul.
• 1:20:54
  So I think there's some good stuff in there and then thirdly
• 1:20:57
  Davidson you guys are both already said it he is trying his
• 1:21:01
  best. He does some odd things in this
• 1:21:02
  story. The little chefs kits actually
• 1:21:04
  equipment in the first step. So when he's examining it all is
• 1:21:07
  a bit odd on the screen at the end.
• 1:21:10
  He does a real kind of Yarbrough sucks.
• 1:21:12
  He sticks his tongue out his fingers in his ears tomorrow.
• 1:21:15
  Look it's a very odd. Odd action for the doctor to
• 1:21:19
  take but he's always trying things when he gets angry with
• 1:21:21
  him. And tells her to stay that he's
• 1:21:25
  properly angry. He's properly frustrated at
• 1:21:27
  adri. So I think he really is trying
• 1:21:30
  to find his way in the scroll. So I'm going to give them cute
• 1:21:32
  dogs for that. So I think the song Charming
• 1:21:35
  stuff in it. There is a lot of nonsense.
• 1:21:37
  I absolutely here what you guys like, but I'm putting it
• 1:21:39
  through. The deciding vote.
• 1:21:43
  Oh the power monitor doesn't even get off his chair though.
• 1:21:47
  Does it into episode 4? Yeah, but it sounds it is the
• 1:21:51
  best story where there's a frogs on a chair.
• 1:21:53
  The power says he just saw watches the whole thing quite
• 1:21:59
  amused, which I wish I was doing because I was not Quite all to
• 1:22:05
  me what days this is four days the Earth.
• 1:22:09
  So why are we duck in the drama? Because surely the drama is at
• 1:22:12
  doomsday. So why are we watching the four
• 1:22:15
  days leading up to where drama takes place and just washing a
• 1:22:19
  load of experiments and weird things going on.
• 1:22:21
  I don't get that at all. My books hunting a bit worth
• 1:22:24
  three each. you know always the experiments were interesting or
• 1:22:28
  exciting is I mean, you know. It before before the excitement
• 1:22:39
  or something like that. It's like it's kind of as to
• 1:22:42
  what you gonna get. This is one of the rarest Doctor
• 1:22:44
  Who stories where I just don't give a shit about a single
• 1:22:47
  character in the entire story and characters are in Doctor Who
• 1:22:52
  all of the guest characters are really boring and played in a
• 1:22:56
  very strange way. My other laws that Cliffhanger
• 1:22:59
  where he holds up the script the micro chip and goes this is me
• 1:23:04
  and as if he's drunk, well, I think that fit is giving us a
• 1:23:07
  very off killed her performance. I think I supposed to be a very
• 1:23:10
  moving moment, but it doesn't touch me at all and you're
• 1:23:13
  right, you know, the the different representatives of the
• 1:23:16
  culture the end and doing all that cheering and waving and are
• 1:23:21
  you behind any of those people? Do you want any of those people
• 1:23:24
  to succeed? Do we care what happens to any
• 1:23:26
  of those people when the story ends?
• 1:23:27
  I don't think so, but that's nothing to what you have already
• 1:23:31
  all described with the regulars. I don't think a set of four
• 1:23:37
  regulars and doctors and everything this unlikable this
• 1:23:40
  irritating to watch I was watching it angry and I think
• 1:23:44
  that we got a lot of problems here.
• 1:23:45
  It's when the story takes place it's Davis and first so he's
• 1:23:48
  sort of panicking and the role and you can see that at times
• 1:23:51
  the bit where you runs in the concert the console room and he
• 1:23:54
  goes smaller my concentration or at one point he goes, um, Who we
• 1:24:00
  contact will be laughed at I'm like he's playing these things
• 1:24:03
  in a very strange way in a way that he never would in the next
• 1:24:05
  season now, I think he doesn't really have a clue.
• 1:24:08
  What's happening at this point. What is it?
• 1:24:10
  It was told. Tristan Vaughn and Tristan right
• 1:24:14
  by a kid. So I think that's what he's
• 1:24:16
  trying to do their Janet Fielding has no clue.
• 1:24:20
  I think she thinks she's playing to young kids at this point.
• 1:24:23
  Yeah. She's doing kids TV acting for
• 1:24:25
  sure, but I think she gets there by the time you get to like
• 1:24:29
  black orchids and Earth shock. She realized she's playing to
• 1:24:32
  older kids at that point and it's a lot more enjoyable to
• 1:24:35
  watch. So when she's screaming out
• 1:24:36
  lines like, you know, oh, yeah, I drink get out on my way.
• 1:24:40
  You know, it's like just uninsurable to watch and it's
• 1:24:44
  there are more obnoxious line and Doctor Who than how adrik
• 1:24:48
  says, can you pass Salt and you pass the sodium clever.
• 1:24:52
  I mean, I would punch him in the face, right just all Sarah son
• 1:24:56
  who I think is a fairly accomplished actress just sort
• 1:25:00
  of language is in the back of short most of the time doing
• 1:25:03
  nothing doing experiments painting.
• 1:25:05
  I don't know falling unconscious.
• 1:25:07
  It's yeah, it's a terrible show for the for the For the regulars
• 1:25:12
  own a thing about this though is John Black's Direction because
• 1:25:16
  as I was watching this, I was counting how many times the
• 1:25:19
  camera actually moved and it was about three times in the four
• 1:25:23
  episodes. Now we go from shop to shop.
• 1:25:27
  I like to Canine and Company and the keyboard.
• 1:25:30
  He's he's filming like a theater show, you know, and so he's
• 1:25:36
  doing lots of long shots because he's got these hugely impressive
• 1:25:38
  sets that he wants to show off but that means all the actors
• 1:25:41
  are sort of doing Dreadful Moves In in those shots and it's all
• 1:25:44
  very awkward to watch. There's just there's no Pace.
• 1:25:47
  There's no dynamism. It just goes us I just found
• 1:25:51
  this. very very boring characters Direction That music
• 1:25:59
  who's doing the music in this? I think it's probably modulars.
• 1:26:03
  I think it is much fun. That's when Grandma sat him down
• 1:26:12
  wasn't it and said, alright. This is what I was just amazing
• 1:26:16
  not Nails on nails on a short snake battles every year.
• 1:26:20
  Um, I'm with life and every single level with this story.
• 1:26:24
  I think it is really really terrible.
• 1:26:26
  I love the fact that we've had some positive comments and
• 1:26:28
  people found interesting things eccentric is the word that you
• 1:26:31
  use Rob and I do think is incredibly eccentric but
• 1:26:34
  eccentric can be annoying as well and this is It's all okay.
• 1:26:38
  So for to Doomsday is the first of all Joe, let's go to your
• 1:26:42
  first pick. Um, well, I've just been mean so
• 1:26:45
  now I'd like to be really nice about a different terrorist
• 1:26:47
  Dudley script and that is black orchids.
• 1:26:49
  Oh good. So move us away from doing this
• 1:26:52
  in chronological order Nathan Hang Time.
• 1:26:58
  Now that's a term that Nathan alive in our Untitled Star Trek
• 1:27:02
  project where we just hang out on the ship or the station with
• 1:27:05
  the regular crew and get to see their day-to-day life and
• 1:27:09
  episode one of Black Orchid is all hang time.
• 1:27:12
  And it's one of the most enjoyable episodes of the entire
• 1:27:16
  season. It's wonderful.
• 1:27:17
  We know I think it's the best one.
• 1:27:18
  What the whole season Yep, best episode of the Season not the
• 1:27:23
  best story the best episode the episode one, you know, we get to
• 1:27:26
  we get to see them playing playing and watching Cricket
• 1:27:29
  having drinks in baths addicts stuff in his face at a buffet
• 1:27:33
  teigen's dancing. Everyone is so relaxing this
• 1:27:37
  story compared the regulars in Black organs that are regulars.
• 1:27:40
  I mean, you wouldn't even believe they're in the same
• 1:27:42
  series let alone the same season and everyone's figured out sort
• 1:27:45
  of how to do this by now and they figured out that they put
• 1:27:48
  Matthew Waterhouse into the background rather than Sarah
• 1:27:50
  Sutton is a good idea. So, he's quite enjoyable to
• 1:27:53
  watch as well. I think that first episode is
• 1:27:56
  absolutely glorious the second reason I would like to put this
• 1:28:01
  through is I think this has really great production value.
• 1:28:04
  I the studio sets do look like two years says but there's one
• 1:28:08
  thing the BBC can do they did it again.
• 1:28:09
  It goes like he's fabulous old houses with you know, split
• 1:28:14
  level with a huge staircase guy. It looks absolutely gorgeous.
• 1:28:17
  But go and watch the Blu-ray version.
• 1:28:21
  Of the location work in this and it just pops on the screen.
• 1:28:24
  I'm assuming it's the original Masters world.
• 1:28:26
  Yeah. Yeah, that's absolutely
• 1:28:29
  gorgeous. So whilst very little was
• 1:28:32
  occurring in this story. It's all very pleasant on the
• 1:28:35
  eye which is my second reason and my third reason is and
• 1:28:39
  because I really disliked Tegan intensely, but I just find a
• 1:28:46
  There's a point in season 20 where she celebrated and she's
• 1:28:50
  so unwelcoming to everybody you really do after ask yourself
• 1:28:54
  one. Why are you there and two?
• 1:28:56
  Why are you just go home? Because you're not enjoying
• 1:28:58
  yourself and she's a joy in this story.
• 1:29:00
  Isn't she? I don't all of her things with
• 1:29:02
  Sir Robert. She's having a dance.
• 1:29:04
  She's showing this how to do the Charleston.
• 1:29:07
  She's having a drink. She's having the best over that
• 1:29:10
  terrible line that she delivers outside the hardest you are in
• 1:29:14
  for a surprise. You know, she is really really
• 1:29:17
  having fun at the start the story she goes I did say I
• 1:29:20
  wanted to stay with the crew for a while, which is so refreshing
• 1:29:22
  and after five stories of get me to the most boring place on
• 1:29:25
  planet Earth. Oh, she's wonderful this I do.
• 1:29:29
  I love a murder mystery as well, which is unfortunate because
• 1:29:32
  this is a really terrible murder mystery that doesn't obey any of
• 1:29:37
  the rules of a murder mystery. I've never seen Agatha Christie
• 1:29:40
  where the main characters, you know pop into a Time ship and
• 1:29:43
  that is the Alabama as to why they're doing commit the murder
• 1:29:45
  and it is all wrapped up in about 15 minutes.
• 1:29:48
  But as a As a quiet piece where everybody is having fun with
• 1:29:55
  some witty lies. I think Terence study does rice
• 1:29:57
  and Wishy lines here. He's much better than the night
• 1:29:59
  in 20s and he is in deep space. Um where and this is who's
• 1:30:05
  directing? Is this the same fellow it's
• 1:30:06
  yeah. But it's not much of an ask
• 1:30:10
  right, you know shoot a cricket match and shoot a few great
• 1:30:14
  actors in this wonderful set. I think this is the ultimate
• 1:30:18
  refreshment in season 19 in between what people perceive to
• 1:30:22
  be too heavy weights. I actually think this is
• 1:30:25
  possibly the most enjoyable story of the season and so just
• 1:30:30
  because I had a good time with it.
• 1:30:31
  I'm putting it through Interesting.
• 1:30:33
  Let's go to the comments. Lucy McCaul said the only story
• 1:30:36
  I haven't rewatched from this season.
• 1:30:38
  It's frightened me so much when I was a child, I don't want to
• 1:30:41
  see it again. Right electronic sounds says as
• 1:30:45
  a lover of mysteries Black Orchid comes off as shallow
• 1:30:48
  compared to other period Mysteries.
• 1:30:49
  My alibi is I travel in time and space.
• 1:30:52
  So that makes me totally trustworthy.
• 1:30:53
  Thank you, but it's nice to see the tallest crew having fun.
• 1:30:57
  Could I change Mark says if the Seas have been sizzling so far
• 1:31:00
  it might have earned Charming scenes of cricket and I trick
• 1:31:03
  stuffing his face, but after the visitation the last thing we
• 1:31:06
  need is an absence of plot altogether and anyone who calls
• 1:31:10
  this actor Christie esque deserves to be sued by the state
• 1:31:14
  of Agatha Christie of vile slander.
• 1:31:16
  Peter doesn't the BBC do period from the world just as I say
• 1:31:22
  trauma, sorry trauma just the right length though, despite the
• 1:31:25
  and this thing is clearly struggling to find enough for
• 1:31:27
  all the companions to do adriene is a struggling to understand
• 1:31:30
  Cricket is hilarious, Michael. Storms as well.
• 1:31:33
  Nowhere is bad as Davidson and Fielding make out it is rather
• 1:31:37
  inconsequential lady cronley's treatments of George's
• 1:31:40
  horrendous. I wonder if her out of sight out
• 1:31:43
  of mind approach to mental health treatment is what Saint
• 1:31:46
  George over the edge of banks. The first two parts are in
• 1:31:49
  historical historical story in ages is pleasant and fun but
• 1:31:52
  distinctly light some lovely scenes of the TARDIS crew having
• 1:31:55
  fun, but nothing really stands out.
• 1:31:57
  I'm pin says not a lot happens, but it's a nice gentle little
• 1:32:00
  romp nice to see Dave. Oh getting some overs in
• 1:32:03
  justifying the cricket Motif Best Line strike me from the
• 1:32:07
  police constable and from the Tardis concert room.
• 1:32:10
  I love her but Jason Thompson is fantasy the Tardis crew kick
• 1:32:14
  back and enjoyed himself for a while and you can believe these
• 1:32:17
  people are actually friends for once.
• 1:32:19
  Yes, once the victory stops. I do feel that she's gonna be
• 1:32:23
  written this way all season. I would have been a joy.
• 1:32:25
  I do feel that the crownies get far too much little come up and
• 1:32:29
  for keeping their disfigured Sun lots of way which leads to
• 1:32:32
  murder and Kidnapping all a bit inconsequential Jack Courier
• 1:32:36
  says whilst but we all baked would immediately have turned
• 1:32:38
  into Sherlock Holmes Davidson finds himself on the back foot
• 1:32:41
  scrubbing Frances and making himself less trustworthy in the
• 1:32:45
  process. The last 10 minutes is pretty
• 1:32:47
  unfortunate though. The death should have had more
• 1:32:49
  impact and just a few weeks on from kinder the colonialism
• 1:32:53
  received no introspection. Darren lit roundels the plot is
• 1:32:57
  feeble, but it's nice to have a change of stone in this.
• 1:33:00
  Tone in this dreary era Teagan Smiles Patrick Smiles Nyssa is
• 1:33:05
  there show me didn't have a stronger director.
• 1:33:08
  John Llewellyn says fund doesn't outstay.
• 1:33:10
  Its welcome looked really nice Teigen and this will look great
• 1:33:13
  in Period clothing lasting Parsons one time doctor who gets
• 1:33:17
  close to being a slasher and I love it snappy looks beautiful
• 1:33:22
  great performance and really quite affecting at the end.
• 1:33:26
  Oh and spent two saw that comment and responded saying to
• 1:33:30
  I don't get the references to slasher Georgie seems to be
• 1:33:33
  trying to mount Nessa rather than trying to cut her to Pieces
• 1:33:36
  but they should have thrown his mother off the roof at the end
• 1:33:39
  the bitch. Oh a little chair that doesn't
• 1:33:44
  deserve the sticky gets beautiful location Works.
• 1:33:47
  Sarah certainly allowed to shine the BBC again excels at period
• 1:33:50
  settings. But as a who done it it's not
• 1:33:53
  much of a mystery. Alexander roxmore said I really
• 1:33:56
  like it. But I had read a lot of like the
• 1:33:58
  Crystal and finally looks in his Jenkins short sweet and
• 1:34:02
  wonderful like me. Like you or like Luke like him
• 1:34:06
  like him, right? You know, I'm going to respond
• 1:34:11
  this one just to give Rob and Nathan two different views
• 1:34:15
  because I am going to Chuck this one out Russell everybody
• 1:34:19
  nodding and smiling as you were saying positive things Joe but
• 1:34:22
  you Chuck this out and put time flight through this is over.
• 1:34:25
  Okay. Let's see when we go.
• 1:34:29
  Alright. My first reason is I don't
• 1:34:33
  really know what this is doing. So, I know you Joe too.
• 1:34:37
  Well now I knew you were going to talk about hangtime.
• 1:34:39
  I don't really buy this because I want to see these characters
• 1:34:43
  interacting because we've got these four characters.
• 1:34:46
  I want to see how they worked together how they gel and I
• 1:34:49
  don't get that we have that enforce Tuesday.
• 1:34:52
  It was terrible. Yeah.
• 1:34:53
  Good point. Well mate by part one doctor's
• 1:34:58
  isolated. He's on Cricket pitch or he's
• 1:35:00
  wandering around corridors and his gym jams.
• 1:35:02
  You got taken making eyes so Robert.
• 1:35:05
  Which is he the only man she flirts within the air.
• 1:35:07
  I think it probably is just well.
• 1:35:11
  It does make me wonder when she has Andrew Vernon in The
• 1:35:13
  Awakening whether that is a Granddad or whether she's just
• 1:35:16
  found him on Tinder because maybe like the old man never
• 1:35:20
  discount the older man. Well, this is true.
• 1:35:23
  Adrix eating this is dancing. I want to see them work together
• 1:35:27
  and it doesn't so I'm parking the Hang Time argument.
• 1:35:31
  It could be achieved a mustard Style parody because it feels
• 1:35:35
  like it's going down there. In other words kind of like a
• 1:35:37
  comedy of manners and misunderstandings based on the
• 1:35:41
  kind of vapor of this upper class family and that is
• 1:35:44
  suggesting in part one because we get all the exaggerated
• 1:35:46
  language everything speaking and ripping and top hero and smutty
• 1:35:50
  and talk about ancestral homes and families.
• 1:35:54
  And then we've got the ridiculous setup The Gorge and
• 1:35:58
  Charles cranley or identical twins Nissan call.
• 1:36:03
  We've got identical costumes for them to wear and then George
• 1:36:07
  takes the doctor's Harley Quinn costume.
• 1:36:08
  So it's kind of setting up the sheaves and more stuff kind of
• 1:36:11
  farcical situation of lots of misunderstanding was going in
• 1:36:15
  and out of doors, but then we don't do that.
• 1:36:17
  That's not what we do. So then it is also just is this
• 1:36:21
  like a Christine murder and it's absolutely not because we know
• 1:36:24
  from the start it's the guy tied up in the bed and there are any
• 1:36:27
  red herrings or false Trails. So it's not a who done there.
• 1:36:30
  So if it's none of those things what actually is this not what I
• 1:36:33
  struggle with what is actually trying to achieve and then my
• 1:36:37
  second reason out leads onto the is the writing I think this is
• 1:36:39
  the most underwritten story of the Season which is odd singing
• 1:36:43
  is the shortest you think this is more underrated than the
• 1:36:46
  visitation. We'll catch the visitation in a
• 1:36:50
  minute. Okay, you do get the worst line
• 1:36:54
  of exposition in this in the season.
• 1:36:56
  I went and tells taken or you can tell us apart because I've
• 1:36:59
  got a mole on my shoulder. So you think okay is really
• 1:37:03
  labeling the point but that is going to be the turning point of
• 1:37:05
  the story and then the notification again, so it's just
• 1:37:09
  very hot. Why did we do that?
• 1:37:11
  Just exactly but it was red herrings that never came.
• 1:37:20
  And the bit really bugs me is that the beginning of part two
• 1:37:23
  and the doctors are accused. He's just totally enacted.
• 1:37:27
  He doesn't defend himself any way shape or form he acts like
• 1:37:30
  he's not got a clue what's going on.
• 1:37:32
  He's very, you know, it's very Jeeves and we'll see it's very
• 1:37:34
  dirty. Well this point he's no idea
• 1:37:36
  what's going on, but then he gets arrested take into the
• 1:37:39
  police station finds the Tardis flies back again and suddenly
• 1:37:42
  with no other information, you know exactly what's going on.
• 1:37:45
  You know who everybody is what their motivation are How is he
• 1:37:50
  changed with the space for the problem is wrong that happened
• 1:37:53
  because we had that Hank Tom in episode one.
• 1:37:54
  This is basically a one part doctor whose story it's got to
• 1:37:57
  tell the entire plot in 20 minutes.
• 1:37:59
  I could live with that. It's just our first scene at the
• 1:38:02
  beginning where he's so Bamboozled and so flustered and
• 1:38:05
  just acts as though he's not got a clue what's going on.
• 1:38:07
  How does he suddenly turn that around his very very odd and
• 1:38:11
  then my third reason I am going to disagree with you Joe.
• 1:38:13
  I don't think it looks that pretty the thing that puts me
• 1:38:16
  off. This is supposed to be a
• 1:38:18
  glorious Summer Ball. Oh, okay.
• 1:38:22
  The best one Barbara Murray is marry Antoinette wig.
• 1:38:26
  It's constantly in the face. She can't speak Spanish.
• 1:38:30
  I describe it as a lovely dinner like a lovely garden party on
• 1:38:41
  the planet cast history. So for all those reasons, I am
• 1:38:56
  shocking it. Oh now let's hear some sanity
• 1:39:00
  from you may not regard. This is um, I think Black Orchid
• 1:39:08
  is one of the most truly remarkable.
• 1:39:11
  Doctor who still has ever made because I think it's one of the
• 1:39:14
  one of the coolest. In the show's history, I think
• 1:39:19
  as a piece of audience manipulation it is it is
• 1:39:22
  extraordinarily clever. And totally brutal.
• 1:39:27
  Because here's my point. This is the first time I mean, I
• 1:39:31
  think the first time in many many years since since the
• 1:39:34
  holidays, it's actually really go back to the show where a
• 1:39:39
  story exists not on its own it doesn't have its own individual
• 1:39:47
  identity exists to soften you up for what Earth shots gonna do.
• 1:39:54
  It is nasty in that way and you can and you know, you might
• 1:39:59
  think it's Constance but it's full of little things which then
• 1:40:02
  get totally turned on their head on Earth shock.
• 1:40:04
  You've got the whole thing, which is kind of ludicrously
• 1:40:07
  nice and sweet that the way in which you can prove that you're
• 1:40:12
  not actually a murderer is by saying look, let me just show
• 1:40:17
  you what the targets and so you says go on then you do that, you
• 1:40:21
  know, and it's sweet and lovely and they try that one of her and
• 1:40:26
  they say ah, Nissa actually does it you know because here they
• 1:40:30
  are they've arrived somewhere and they've always dead bodies
• 1:40:32
  and they're both they can do some Black Orchid and this is
• 1:40:36
  let me show you how we travel to him and Scott just says don't
• 1:40:38
  waste my time and it's almost like actually every single thing
• 1:40:42
  that Black Orchid is doing it's like this last summer moment
• 1:40:45
  before Earth shock changes the actual tone of 80s Doctor Who
• 1:40:50
  forever quite deliberately, I think so everything that Black
• 1:40:54
  Orchid is setting up. Is this sort of idea of false
• 1:40:57
  expectation? It's about people having funny
• 1:41:02
  Charming Adventures before you pull the rug from underneath and
• 1:41:05
  and I think that the danger with ice of back is always that we
• 1:41:10
  see a nice relation when a very very new series.
• 1:41:14
  It's exactly what it isn't doing it is it's kind of like a Boom
• 1:41:19
  Town it is it is an extremely clever idea of saying for the
• 1:41:23
  first time is the 70s. We're doing a two-part adventure
• 1:41:26
  and it's done to make you be really not sideways when next
• 1:41:31
  week. We just start kidding
• 1:41:32
  everything. because And and part of the reason for that is that
• 1:41:38
  it also doesn't have an identity.
• 1:41:40
  It keeps on setting up the idea of what it might be in exactly
• 1:41:43
  the way that God was saying and it keeps on not doing it.
• 1:41:46
  Of course, it's not an Agatha Christie.
• 1:41:48
  I mean, there is no murder mystery.
• 1:41:50
  It makes you think it might be one and then it is it's actually
• 1:41:54
  closer to the idea of being a fast but then every single time
• 1:41:58
  you actually have a far sight moment.
• 1:41:59
  It keeps on not really doing it. So, you know the idea of saying
• 1:42:03
  okay, there's going to be a murderer and he stole them
• 1:42:06
  Davidson's costume now, he's put it back and all that sort of
• 1:42:09
  stuff as you say it's very very cheap, but they don't really
• 1:42:12
  lean in on that because they not allowing black orchids that sort
• 1:42:17
  of identity is anything except a strange terribly weird character
• 1:42:23
  that's going into portray you completely and I think that that
• 1:42:27
  is actually its own special charm is that it is very
• 1:42:31
  unsettling. It's it doesn't ever allow you
• 1:42:35
  to really understand why people I think can get quite angry at
• 1:42:39
  it and annoyed it and I know that people like pigs and years
• 1:42:43
  on the magazine at the back of the magazine always mocking it
• 1:42:46
  and I was talking he did that but that's entirely what it's
• 1:42:49
  doing. Deliberately.
• 1:42:50
  It is making you think this doesn't quite have up.
• 1:42:52
  It doesn't quite work. So that when you get something
• 1:42:56
  coming along later on which slams home, you're all the more
• 1:42:59
  upset and I really think that orchids brilliant is that it
• 1:43:04
  does that and and and there are Clues throughout it, but other
• 1:43:08
  things always bother me when I was a kid, I still get bothered
• 1:43:11
  by things like in Fang Rock. I don't like seeing deaths on
• 1:43:15
  screen on the left side, you know, so that one of the most
• 1:43:18
  brutal bits of fang rock you suddenly cut and the roof and
• 1:43:22
  he's killing Adelaide and there's no build up to it.
• 1:43:24
  And yeah back or keep his is the first doctor story which
• 1:43:27
  actually opens upon someone being murdered on screen in the
• 1:43:31
  opening second. And yet we're meant to believe
• 1:43:35
  this is a nice gentle happy thing and it keeps on
• 1:43:39
  undermining that all the way through it isn't what it says.
• 1:43:42
  It is at all. This is a really strange dark.
• 1:43:48
  Lie to us it a whole thing. You should read this havoc in
• 1:43:53
  Black. Now.
• 1:43:55
  I know that sounds pretentious but I'm a very pretentious Guy.
• 1:43:59
  This is what I'm gonna hang going through a cordial Street.
• 1:44:04
  I really think that is is there to make us feel that that is
• 1:44:09
  weird. And I think it's one of the
• 1:44:11
  weirdest most unsettling shows and it's genius and I think
• 1:44:15
  genius is obviously too strong a word for it is that with all of
• 1:44:19
  that? You can still watch it as my dad
• 1:44:22
  did who have Cricket and be Charmed by it.
• 1:44:24
  It's charming and at the same time the more you look at it the
• 1:44:28
  more like cash travel. It doesn't add up.
• 1:44:31
  It's like a strange thing where you see all the city.
• 1:44:36
  Not quite match up. I think Black Orchid is truly
• 1:44:39
  extraordinary. It doesn't work on it.
• 1:44:42
  So it works as part of a season. That's the first Doctor Who that
• 1:44:46
  do that since the 1960s and I think it's for that reason my
• 1:44:51
  God, it's worth cherishing and it's for me one of the things
• 1:44:55
  that you have to keep my my second big reason for it.
• 1:44:59
  And I found this out only recently I went up to my attic.
• 1:45:03
  And I found my novelization and I vote in part because at the
• 1:45:12
  time I wrote it, I thought no one's ever gonna notice it so to
• 1:45:15
  pass so I did it myself. And I patted it out with my own
• 1:45:19
  last four urging towards lady Crown.
• 1:45:22
  You read out Alexa for us, please.
• 1:45:32
  I mean what I'm hoping is this. I know the target people that
• 1:45:38
  are wanting to bring out. Other versions and I've done
• 1:45:40
  directly as well as that help me to do.
• 1:45:42
  So hopefully they will hear. Oh, maybe we can bring out your
• 1:45:46
  back or cannot see. Yes the x-rays.
• 1:45:49
  Yeah the cover it's I'm terribly to every line of dialogue
• 1:45:57
  because I was an anal fan, but then just go spiraling off upon
• 1:46:01
  the fact that adrik and Lady And and I kind of like to think I
• 1:46:13
  mean no, I was 12 years old. I was at an old boys school.
• 1:46:16
  All my friends came out and I think this was the moment when I
• 1:46:20
  decided that I was actually straight was watching it.
• 1:46:25
  I've always wanted women and I think hi sexual activities for
• 1:46:31
  the next 40 years. So very very important reason
• 1:46:35
  for me why that's what our best reasons we've ever had on this
• 1:46:39
  show. We should just close the program
• 1:46:42
  there. Actually, I will never stop
• 1:46:47
  trying to get a copy of that book.
• 1:46:48
  All right. Nathan over to you.
• 1:46:54
  It's one of the piece at the moment.
• 1:46:59
  Like who do you think? Who do you think Rob is
• 1:47:01
  responsible for that? Because I think Terence Dudley
• 1:47:04
  like the materials out of his control and because he's an old
• 1:47:08
  man who doesn't understand the world of the 1980s.
• 1:47:13
  He's still riding as if colonialism.
• 1:47:15
  So, I honestly think that with the north a lot of particularly
• 1:47:18
  this season, I'm going to argue a lot of things like hesitation
• 1:47:20
  as well. There's a lot going on which I
• 1:47:22
  think he's accidental to their intention but still nevertheless
• 1:47:26
  works. I mean, I think someone should
• 1:47:28
  Works in spite of itself Castro Valley for the things as you
• 1:47:32
  quite rightly say a bad decisions that kind of I think
• 1:47:36
  really really work Black Orchid I think on paper Is Dreadful and
• 1:47:42
  it shouldn't work? He's just actually really really
• 1:47:45
  does in it. It's so weird.
• 1:47:48
  I don't need to say I think we used to call deadly Dudley.
• 1:47:54
  I was in the 80s. I only he knows he's doing
• 1:47:59
  particularly and I don't think Jon Jones Stars.
• 1:48:02
  I think I wouldn't say that say what is heavily foreshadowing
• 1:48:07
  Earth shock? I do think it is full of those
• 1:48:09
  hints and I think that it is an accidental Act of utter
• 1:48:14
  brilliant. He's we don't know do we know
• 1:48:19
  how this season to divides between root and say word.
• 1:48:23
  I think is out right now. Yeah, save it is now in at this
• 1:48:27
  point. Since it's been left with with
• 1:48:31
  Dudley who was not really brought in by him.
• 1:48:34
  I don't think I think that that he came in mostly as a direct
• 1:48:41
  loss. Yeah, so he comes into the early
• 1:48:46
  jnt days. So he's not another like
• 1:48:48
  Greenway, you know, I mean, you know, so what starts happening
• 1:48:51
  is you get these new voices coming.
• 1:48:53
  In as directors and then they say I cannot and of course they
• 1:48:57
  had done years. He doesn't but a lot of stuff
• 1:48:59
  and Grim Wade, is there doing the same sort of thing.
• 1:49:03
  And so suddenly they now script writers as well.
• 1:49:06
  And I think that say would inherited. and kind of resented
• 1:49:11
  it which is one of the reasons you find that although he's
• 1:49:13
  being backed his always been having shunted towards towards
• 1:49:15
  those two parties until they find the sort of do a pringle on
• 1:49:20
  it. Let's get but I think he was
• 1:49:25
  famously argumentative wasn't he terrorists lovely pissed off
• 1:49:29
  everybody you came into contact with I don't think that somebody
• 1:49:33
  that was up for editing or you know or doing new drafts.
• 1:49:35
  If you probably said there you go.
• 1:49:37
  That's what you're getting and then bug It Off.
• 1:49:40
  So there's really making this up and if I am I'm wasting it and
• 1:49:45
  ruining your entire podcast. Oh story that way back in 60.
• 1:49:51
  He was being touted as somebody quite In you know influential
• 1:49:56
  impact. It wasn't even meant to be a
• 1:49:57
  producer. Like you know what Rob that does
• 1:50:00
  ring about with me as well. No, you say that.
• 1:50:02
  I'm sure I've read something. It makes my head more so that I
• 1:50:05
  imagine it's not 140 years of survivors, didn't he?
• 1:50:14
  Yeah, and then throw it over a cliff.
• 1:50:18
  Yeah, I think it's yeah and I think he's kids or something.
• 1:50:22
  I think he's a second series and he's kids of the little kids in
• 1:50:26
  it and then they disappear for the third series because he says
• 1:50:29
  his office as well. So I think that that's right.
• 1:50:31
  Oh, no, there's all there's an episode of Doom watch that he
• 1:50:37
  wrote which is actually pretty good about killer rats.
• 1:50:41
  They're being genetically Engineers.
• 1:50:43
  He wrote that one and there's a sequence on Montage where they
• 1:50:47
  start coming out toilets and attacking and he gets in his
• 1:50:50
  whole family to play all the people that are murdered
• 1:50:53
  horribly. That's the sort of man terrorist
• 1:50:57
  Dudley is all right, 10 years later.
• 1:50:58
  He's turning out Black Orchid. He has a Darkness to it.
• 1:51:01
  Yeah. I mean, I think it has enough.
• 1:51:06
  Like I think so. It is very limited and we will
• 1:51:09
  get there because I you know I think that both of his stories
• 1:51:13
  this season are problems for different reasons, but he is
• 1:51:17
  clever enough. I think to deliberately do what
• 1:51:20
  you're suggesting Rob with jeez to put Black Orchid in as a kind
• 1:51:26
  of CounterPoint. He's talking to Eric a bit.
• 1:51:28
  I mean because I've yeah when I was doing darling we had to
• 1:51:33
  dinner with me. Well, I was actually been
• 1:51:37
  commissioned to write Dalek. We just and there's no warning
• 1:51:41
  that we would just be these two people there and we spoke and I
• 1:51:44
  asked him a lot about the process of how he mixed the
• 1:51:47
  season and of course Eric being Eric as well.
• 1:51:49
  He's so down on himself. But he did sort of say he was
• 1:51:53
  trying to get a sense of a flavor of continuity which you
• 1:51:56
  can see actually throughout this you can see the stories bleed
• 1:51:59
  into each other quite a lot and there are echoes going on.
• 1:52:03
  So we know he never confirmed to me because I never specifically
• 1:52:06
  said to him over the chicken supreme.
• 1:52:08
  He's not surprise me that there will be a deliberate.
• 1:52:15
  Part of that. Yeah, if you look at the next
• 1:52:17
  two seasons in 20, you were going to have the dark story
• 1:52:21
  last so you could say the king's demon is the palate cleanser
• 1:52:24
  before. Yeah, but at the end of that and
• 1:52:27
  then you could and planet of fires like a holiday, isn't it
• 1:52:30
  before? Okay, he's Rangers on so yeah,
• 1:52:33
  maybe he was doing bit more of this and we thought yeah.
• 1:52:37
  I mean, I love episode one and I like the production because I
• 1:52:41
  think it looks like normal television and I think he
• 1:52:43
  increasingly one of the problems within 1980s is that you know
• 1:52:46
  half video tape and it's half film and it's like really
• 1:52:49
  nothing else, you know, sometimes we're outside
• 1:52:51
  sometimes, you know fucking game show set, you know, like it's
• 1:52:55
  and no one really seems to be at their best in the studio
• 1:52:59
  particularly ever. And so there's so much like
• 1:53:03
  location stuff. And yes, it is freezing cold and
• 1:53:06
  miserable, you know see also the beginning of new Earth with
• 1:53:10
  really trying to pull the hair out of face, you know, like
• 1:53:14
  sometimes that happens, um, but but just because it's like
• 1:53:19
  normal television, you know, and it's not a lot of people in
• 1:53:23
  rubber suits standing around sort of talking about their
• 1:53:26
  plans to, you know, take over the Earth and things it's
• 1:53:29
  actually a little bit refreshing and I love all that stuff all
• 1:53:34
  the Cricut stuff and I love You know, like I loved Teagan and
• 1:53:39
  Sir Robert and when taking calls him a hoot and then he you know
• 1:53:42
  responds with his sort of Posh rendition of that that line, you
• 1:53:47
  know, like all of that stuff is just so much fun.
• 1:53:49
  And so enjoyable. It's such a nice break, but I do
• 1:53:53
  think the actual story itself is just a mess and you know as
• 1:53:58
  usual inadvertently racist because he's not thinking too
• 1:54:02
  carefully about any of the kind of traditional sort of tropes
• 1:54:07
  that he's using but Brendan on flights are entirely hates it
• 1:54:13
  it's one of his least favorite stories, and he really really
• 1:54:17
  hates the fact that nothing happens to mad.
• 1:54:19
  But because she's Posh and you know, she can lock her son up in
• 1:54:23
  the asset for decades and then she's fine and there's a
• 1:54:27
  policeman right there and like nothing happened to the tree
• 1:54:32
  kind of condenser by staying for the funeral and being
• 1:54:34
  sympathetic. He doesn't show at all.
• 1:54:37
  She does give him the outfits true.
• 1:54:41
  Yeah as you as one of the commenters pointed out we've had
• 1:54:45
  kind of the Season which which takes all of that colonialism
• 1:54:49
  stuff and then we've all just forgotten, you know a few weeks
• 1:54:52
  later. But I I say keep it.
• 1:54:57
  Okay. So Black Orchid is staying
• 1:54:59
  should we go to these second and final batch of overview comments
• 1:55:03
  from our lovely listeners? Okay.
• 1:55:06
  Yeah in Banks says a pretty good season held together by some
• 1:55:10
  clever writing shock moments and a youthful cast led by an act
• 1:55:14
  one of the best posture careers out there a great range of
• 1:55:17
  stories and some actual character development in the
• 1:55:20
  seasons moments of downtime. She'll say Karen.
• 1:55:25
  This is my character development I'd say.
• 1:55:27
  Actors getting used to working together.
• 1:55:29
  Yeah. That's probably Fair.
• 1:55:34
  It's kind of you know, like there's a responsibility isn't
• 1:55:36
  it? When you have four people on the
• 1:55:37
  show that you get them to you know that you get their
• 1:55:40
  character was right? It's okay.
• 1:55:42
  If it's just a doctor and someone else, you know, you just
• 1:55:44
  let the actor do their thing, but you know, they really fail
• 1:55:47
  with that. They All right, this is Mark
• 1:55:50
  Donaldson. Kinder is a fascinating glimpse
• 1:55:52
  of what we could have won a young male doctor paired with an
• 1:55:56
  older confidence sexy woman. Yeah, there is Um investigating
• 1:56:02
  weird and wonderful spiritual and scientific Concepts in Stan
• 1:56:06
  season, 19 gives us a harassed Supply teacher heating a high
• 1:56:10
  school field Innovative Staff while that's great fodder for
• 1:56:14
  the sort of sitcoms and cozy dramas are Peter David's excels
• 1:56:17
  at it doesn't make for particularly doctor.
• 1:56:19
  Wow. It's nice is a pretty good run
• 1:56:27
  of stories Davison is consistent throughout our present a
• 1:56:32
  vulnerable doctor, which is a welcome contrast.
• 1:56:34
  The Tom's bombastic Incarnation. Yes, Teigen and Nissa a perfect
• 1:56:40
  foils great stuff. And he Parkinson a real mixed
• 1:56:46
  bag with some absolute belters a stinker and a couple of okay
• 1:56:50
  stories. What the hell?
• 1:56:52
  Yeah. Okay following.
• 1:56:53
  Yes. why might even Falling down.
• 1:56:57
  He's going to be near impossible task.
• 1:56:59
  And while the season has a pretty good go.
• 1:57:01
  There are better debut years old they are.
• 1:57:05
  Exactly. Are you cookie says Earth shock
• 1:57:09
  is streets ahead of everything else, but overall as a season
• 1:57:12
  come out. Charlie Barnes, there's a very
• 1:57:16
  experiment. Let me try that again a very
• 1:57:19
  experimental year a mix of the Bold ideas of the previous year
• 1:57:23
  and traditional Adventures. Not a bad start for Davison.
• 1:57:26
  And electronic Dan says a good season, but I think it was a
• 1:57:30
  mistake to have a four-person crew as usually one to two
• 1:57:33
  aside. You know.
• 1:57:38
  Barbara Ian and Susan are right there, you know Barbara in a
• 1:57:43
  Vicky old too. Well, yes, even better actually.
• 1:57:47
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:57:48
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:57:50
  And Anthony Carroll says a great season earthshock visitation.
• 1:57:54
  All right, Castro Valley. Wait.
• 1:58:00
  What? Yeah, that actually does make
• 1:58:07
  more sense. Doesn't it?
• 1:58:08
  Let me try that again. From worst to best earthshot
• 1:58:14
  visitation Castro Valley for today Black Orchid Kinder in
• 1:58:17
  that order. That's perfect.
• 1:58:18
  Trying to erase timeline from memory Davidson is real.
• 1:58:26
  And bits Gerald says it me a while to get over losing Tom by
• 1:58:31
  the third episode of castrovalva.
• 1:58:33
  Always forgetful. That's quite fast, isn't it?
• 1:58:35
  We're very fickle people. I mean that's only eight days
• 1:58:41
  only a week. And what's Toyah Willcox said in
• 1:58:45
  more than 30 years in the TARDIS.
• 1:58:48
  What did she say after it shows? Absolutely heartbroken that
• 1:58:51
  William Hartnell had left doctor and she would never take Patrick
• 1:58:55
  trout into her heart and until the end of episode 1 of power of
• 1:58:58
  the Daleks and which time forgotten William hardtner was
• 1:59:02
  so shallow, but she talks about how much she loves you.
• 1:59:12
  Then goes on to say it's a cracking season two of my
• 1:59:15
  favorite stories both shocked with its population.
• 1:59:18
  Which sparked my imagination? Okay next.
• 1:59:24
  Yes, Jason Thompson a mixed bag with some outstanding stuff.
• 1:59:29
  But some pretty forgettable stories making it just making it
• 1:59:34
  a decidedly average season. Overall Davidson is great the
• 1:59:38
  others have them women's blessed but a saddled with some
• 1:59:41
  pointless conflicts that are painful to watch.
• 1:59:44
  And Dan Hollingsworth writes the season that got child me 100%
• 1:59:49
  obsessed with Doctor Who after enjoying the previous one, even
• 1:59:53
  the overcrowded hardest team gives me an nostalgic buzz and
• 1:59:57
  there's a great mix of Stories the Masters deranged disguises a
• 2:00:01
  massive pink snake. Oh, yeah, it means the one in
• 2:00:05
  Castro Valley Rob. What do you what's that and a
• 2:00:15
  new I don't know what and a few slides my eyes and a few other
• 2:00:19
  less thrilling baddies mate for proper space and time drama in
• 2:00:24
  1982 a twice weekly evening cereal on BBC One about some odd
• 2:00:31
  random thing in the same place. It was a prototype EastEnders.
• 2:00:35
  It was that's literally yeah, right.
• 2:00:41
  So it is my choice of story and I am going to pick with alluded
• 2:00:46
  to it a few times. I'm gonna pick the visitation.
• 2:00:49
  Oh Brave. Yeah, what you gonna do it?
• 2:00:55
  Oh, Ben. Oh good, okay.
• 2:01:02
  So my first reason is Eric sabold.
• 2:01:07
  This or as I would for our record sorry Rob, I know you
• 2:01:12
  Shadow the king Supreme with them.
• 2:01:14
  He's so this bears for me. This bear is so many of his bad
• 2:01:21
  traits, even though some of them are in embryo form at this
• 2:01:24
  point. So I've listed a few of them
• 2:01:26
  just to refresh me. So the first one I've criticized
• 2:01:29
  say would before for not having kind of fully formed scripts
• 2:01:32
  with a clear drive driving narrative.
• 2:01:34
  He turns to just have a series of vignettes around kind of
• 2:01:37
  central conceit with lots of guest characters coming in and
• 2:01:40
  out, but he hasn't really formed that type of Doctor Who yeah, so
• 2:01:44
  here we don't even get those vignettes.
• 2:01:46
  What we have got is just away for thin plot two and three
• 2:01:51
  being the most egregious. I think they're the most
• 2:01:54
  emptiest episodes in the whole of Doctor Who It's just going
• 2:01:58
  backwards and forwards to the house standing chatting in the
• 2:02:01
  house leaving the house going back to the house or else it's
• 2:02:05
  all getting captured and escaping then getting captured
• 2:02:07
  again and escaping. I mean, the best example is the
• 2:02:11
  doctor identifies early on in part two that they have to
• 2:02:14
  defeat the Android and you tell us what to do.
• 2:02:16
  She goes back to the cards. She spends the rest of part two
• 2:02:19
  the whole of part three and three quarters of part four
• 2:02:23
  building her dildo in the bedroom.
• 2:02:27
  I mean, it's just excruciating we see a building it we see a
• 2:02:32
  dragging bits from the console room to a bedroom.
• 2:02:34
  We see a testing it. It's just the dullest television
• 2:02:37
  you could possibly make so wait for thin is one two characters.
• 2:02:43
  Well say well does later on is he's kind of emulating robber
• 2:02:46
  homes by having a collection of grotesques and we haven't got
• 2:02:49
  there yet at the moment. So we haven't really got
• 2:02:52
  anything to divert from The Narrative because we've only
• 2:02:54
  really got two characters. We've got good old Richard mace
• 2:02:58
  which are character the same which seems to prioritize way
• 2:03:01
  above his regulars. Now, this is a character that he
• 2:03:04
  had created receives a radio plays when the character was a
• 2:03:08
  drunk actor and a detective who was a Victorian.
• 2:03:11
  So there's a few different cities there, but unfortunately
• 2:03:14
  even though we're in 1666. He still writing mace very much
• 2:03:18
  as a Victorian. He's kind of like a very poor
• 2:03:21
  man's Henry Gordon Jake go and he just takes so much of the
• 2:03:25
  plot and then energy and isn't in sympathy with everything else
• 2:03:29
  that's going on. The other character we've got is
• 2:03:32
  the Terrell leader whose very much a generic monster.
• 2:03:36
  Okay. He likes Art and Design.
• 2:03:38
  Wow doesn't exactly make him a three-dimensional character the
• 2:03:41
  rest of the characters. Don't even get fucking name or
• 2:03:44
  got forget in the Siteman world. We got we've got the Miller.
• 2:03:49
  We've got the head man on my favorite and only I could to me
• 2:03:53
  watching this. We've got the poacher but
• 2:03:55
  doesn't approach success rely on nobody knowing that he's a
• 2:03:59
  poacher if everyone says, oh, he's the coach Just raise but
• 2:04:04
  they don't even get names characters Dreadful third reason
• 2:04:08
  for say would here we start to see the cliche of sniping we
• 2:04:12
  start with Tegan and the doctor having an argument seek and
• 2:04:15
  storming out of the TARDIS what we do in Earth shock.
• 2:04:18
  Oh, yeah hat trick and the doctor have an argument and I
• 2:04:21
  drink storms out of the TARDIS. And we get lines here that you
• 2:04:25
  know what they sound like take them out to context and it's
• 2:04:28
  what he was writing for Colin and Nicola over in Season 22.
• 2:04:32
  So when the doctors looking for the terror levels base, I just
• 2:04:35
  know where he is and the dog says yes.
• 2:04:38
  Yes, that's why I'm searching its kind of oh, why can you say
• 2:04:46
  that's what you're looking for on the docks was because I
• 2:04:48
  wasn't looking for it to life. I found her and he plays in a
• 2:04:51
  really soft and I think I can hear Nicola and Colin getting
• 2:04:54
  saddled with these lines because in 21st.
• 2:05:04
  I think it's more bite. It's just it's nasty here.
• 2:05:07
  It feels nice particularly with the camera.
• 2:05:09
  Really annoying really annoying. They would you be shown at those
• 2:05:12
  people. Yeah, but it's just starting
• 2:05:15
  that they would cliche isn't that next reason for good old
• 2:05:19
  say what isn't it doesn't make the doctor clever when the
• 2:05:22
  doctor first enters the seller he comes through that fake brick
• 2:05:24
  wall. He doesn't notice.
• 2:05:26
  There's another fake brick wall right next to him, which is
• 2:05:29
  where the Terrell and hiding. It's just mad.
• 2:05:32
  How does he do that? And then, you know, all of the
• 2:05:34
  villagers are controlled. He's just been attacked by The
• 2:05:36
  Village's but and then he thinks oh hang on the Miller comes and
• 2:05:39
  goes from the house. He doesn't put two and two
• 2:05:42
  together to think maybe the Millers control the old so now
• 2:05:45
  we just had to see the mill and go straight into danger.
• 2:05:48
  He's making the doctor stupid and then the final say what is
• 2:05:52
  him of all how do we get rid of the monsters at the end is the
• 2:05:54
  cleaver do no more know. We've got three monsters one get
• 2:05:58
  shot one gets blood and death and the other is burnt to death
• 2:06:01
  and Bubbles and it just horrible.
• 2:06:04
  But I'd say would all over come up with a clever solution now
• 2:06:07
  just burn them to death. That's fine.
• 2:06:09
  It does give us the best comedy moment in the season though
• 2:06:12
  where Janet Fielding this smacking that rubber what you
• 2:06:15
  wouldn't believe I love that. It's wonderful.
• 2:06:18
  So say wood is my first my second reason is Peter Moffitt.
• 2:06:23
  He can create atmosphere and style.
• 2:06:25
  Look at the end of part four in those film sequences it all that
• 2:06:30
  does for me is make me realize how empty and flat the previous
• 2:06:33
  three and a half episodes have been everything's just so
• 2:06:35
  static. There are surprisingly some gags
• 2:06:38
  in the script, but because everything shot in long shots
• 2:06:41
  and everything so static they just don't allowed and the
• 2:06:44
  action sequences. I mean when the Android comes to
• 2:06:47
  its like the regulars and the seller and he's firing out they
• 2:06:50
  literally stun there for a good 10-15 seconds all just looking
• 2:06:54
  at each other before they moved and it happens Time After Time
• 2:06:57
  After Time It's bizarre. It's the slowest action sequence
• 2:07:01
  you've ever seen some Moffat second reason for going and
• 2:07:05
  they're very briefly. My third reason is jonte because
• 2:07:08
  on the base of this he gave her so with the job of scripture,
• 2:07:11
  which he should never have had. I'm not I mean if that doesn't
• 2:07:14
  top my reasons for binging this out nothing well, So that is my
• 2:07:19
  take on the visitation. Should we go to the listeners
• 2:07:22
  comments Joe? Andy Parkinson sorry Andy Andy
• 2:07:27
  says this is my favorite Davidson Story scary villains a
• 2:07:31
  brilliant turn from Michael Robbins and in enjoyable story
• 2:07:34
  all helped make this a blast from start to finish.
• 2:07:37
  I hope it wins. Okay.
• 2:07:39
  Yeah may not come to pass down here.
• 2:07:42
  Sure. It's a classic but a very
• 2:07:44
  enjoyable. No, it's not a classic.
• 2:07:47
  Sorry sure. It's not a classic a very
• 2:07:50
  historical that Android is beautiful.
• 2:07:54
  I love the actor Richard Mays and for us with story a very low
• 2:07:59
  body count. That's because there aren't many
• 2:08:01
  characters in it. James Lark says I always think
• 2:08:04
  I'm going to enjoy this but it turns out I've only remembered
• 2:08:06
  the nice period setting the lovely locations and glorious
• 2:08:10
  Richard mace in reality. It's mostly people wandering
• 2:08:13
  from place to place arguing unisa building a vibrator dull
• 2:08:17
  Peter out really clever story Richard Mason's superb the
• 2:08:21
  Terrell's are clearly fighting for their own Survival and the
• 2:08:24
  doctor gives them a moral way out before having them stop
• 2:08:27
  their genocide the Cliffhanger at the end of part two had me
• 2:08:30
  gripped as a child and I played it out in the school yard time
• 2:08:33
  and again let down by some dodgy acting maybe if he's acting out
• 2:08:37
  the end of part two. He's actually acting out the end
• 2:08:39
  of part three of four to Doomsday, which they don't only
• 2:08:42
  just shocked like I do think there's a very important
• 2:08:46
  statement. In that comment, but I'll get to
• 2:08:49
  it. Okay, Jason Thompson says a good
• 2:08:51
  straightforward tale that makes it understandable that say wood
• 2:08:55
  was brought back. The terror level leader is a
• 2:08:57
  decent monster in design character and execution Michael
• 2:09:01
  storm a dull script directed by a guy who makes Richard Martin
• 2:09:04
  look competent. Actually what you said earlier
• 2:09:06
  about good on film terrible. Yeah.
• 2:09:09
  There's a bit of Richard Martin going on there, but it's
• 2:09:11
  question here is what the fuck did jnt thinks would be good
• 2:09:15
  choice for script editor based on this script was he drunk or
• 2:09:20
  just desperate? Baby, God speak process possibly
• 2:09:23
  the flattest Doctor Who Story of All Time The Script from say
• 2:09:26
  wood isn't too bad, but the direction and some of the acting
• 2:09:28
  is insipid Mrs. Oh no moment. Breaking.
• 2:09:31
  The fourth wall is bad. At least we got necessary muffs
• 2:09:35
  was testing her vibrator. Nathan Bosley.
• 2:09:37
  Oh, sorry. Paul says the single most boring
• 2:09:41
  story in Doctor Who how they made the mid-17th century.
• 2:09:44
  So tedious reduced to a man in latex playing with rats while
• 2:09:48
  the doctor spends an episode locked in a room expressing more
• 2:09:51
  emotion for the destroyed Sonic and he will for Patrick.
• 2:09:55
  Charlie well in says now we're talking I breathe a sigh of
• 2:09:59
  relief I wasn't going to hate the whole fifth doctor era
• 2:10:01
  Richard mace's hilarious pretty good monsters for early eighties
• 2:10:06
  BBC love the Disco robot. Probably my favorite for this
• 2:10:09
  season on my favorite sabold script, right?
• 2:10:12
  Daniel Knight great in its Simplicity Michael Robinson's
• 2:10:16
  fun and the regulars all work. Well together Paul Dunn said
• 2:10:19
  before they would win violence Matt neat little story with a
• 2:10:22
  nice twist at the end Richard Mason's Sublime, Jack Koya.
• 2:10:26
  Most of the good here is in part four, even if we are rushing to
• 2:10:29
  the climax the film sequences look amazing, especially when we
• 2:10:33
  get to putting Lane. I also liked the bit where
• 2:10:35
  Adrian Nyssa are trying to fly the Tardis and Adriatic acting
• 2:10:38
  like the doctor bangs the console in frustration.
• 2:10:40
  He can't do it though, Kenny. Houston says I'm always been a
• 2:10:45
  bit down on this one, but rewatching it recently it gets a
• 2:10:48
  lot right? There isn't quite enough story
• 2:10:50
  or threat before episodes but enough to keep you intrigued and
• 2:10:53
  I always love Sunny film sequences Luke Sim Jenkins tons
• 2:10:57
  of Farmland, every time the Terrell destroys the Sonic
• 2:10:59
  Screwdriver. Can they come back in the new
• 2:11:02
  series and do the same? I'm finally Martin says looks
• 2:11:06
  great, but it's unforgivably boring after the exceptional
• 2:11:09
  opening sequence. That disco robot can fuck right
• 2:11:12
  off what so Rob let's go to you. What do you think of the
• 2:11:22
  visitation? um It exists, doesn't it?
• 2:11:26
  I mean it I find it strange. I look back at it.
• 2:11:30
  I remember just how How much it was praised at the time, I mean
• 2:11:35
  it was it was the one that the beep when the ones that BBC gave
• 2:11:39
  it some of repeat to it the second in the season poem.
• 2:11:44
  I remember Dr. Magazine saying well, we should you know, Eric
• 2:11:47
  saber. They should call Eric Awards
• 2:11:49
  because he wins everything and I I don't dislike it but it's very
• 2:11:54
  very eccentric and I think it's above the idea again.
• 2:11:59
  I've got with the season which I as, you know, generally love but
• 2:12:04
  it just feels very accidental. This is The Accidental bit where
• 2:12:06
  it doesn't work. I mean, I'm gonna defend it upon
• 2:12:11
  certain things because you know, that's what I'm like, I think
• 2:12:15
  that the opening sequence is really remarkable and partly
• 2:12:19
  because of the way that it then throws it away. so that it seems
• 2:12:24
  strange that you've got a doctor who story where you've got all
• 2:12:28
  these named characters, you know, you've got the Squire and
• 2:12:32
  his family and they've all got Actual character I want that I
• 2:12:37
  have made posit now, you know John Saturday and he's got his
• 2:12:41
  son Charles and he's got his daughter and then the brutality
• 2:12:44
  that they just murdered. before the doctor even shows up is I
• 2:12:49
  think genuinely quite shocking and I think actually
• 2:12:52
  interestingly remarkable and in some ways it makes you wonder
• 2:12:56
  because it must be delivered. That the fat after that you end
• 2:13:00
  up with the story in which you end up with characters with no
• 2:13:03
  name. I mean that's either stupid and
• 2:13:08
  I'm not saying it isn't all it's doing something which is
• 2:13:11
  deliberate in order to try and make which should mace feel like
• 2:13:17
  something much much bigger around and I think actually for
• 2:13:20
  that kind of works because I think we should make his great.
• 2:13:23
  I mean, I think that there's the danger at the moment in Doctor
• 2:13:27
  Who gave it in Kinder, which I think is obviously far far
• 2:13:30
  better where you suddenly realize.
• 2:13:32
  Oh the most interesting character in Doctor Who Song
• 2:13:36
  other doctor is this whole the character and I think Michael
• 2:13:39
  Robinson's using can you like Michael Robinson?
• 2:13:42
  I think Michael Robinson's wonderful.
• 2:13:44
  I think that he genuinely gives it a flavor.
• 2:13:48
  And I think it makes it all the more sense that actually that
• 2:13:52
  say would deliberately and I think it isn't it.
• 2:13:55
  Makes all of his other characters just these generic
• 2:13:58
  jobs that almost makes them feel unreal.
• 2:14:02
  Which as I say might be a terrible error and I think is
• 2:14:05
  almost certainly a strange misjudgment but I don't think
• 2:14:10
  he's entirely accidental. I think that there is a way in
• 2:14:14
  which the visitation or to have its own sort of strange.
• 2:14:19
  Put up on a way putting it. so much of this season feels like
• 2:14:22
  it's trying to sort of say this is how we imagined old Doctor
• 2:14:26
  Who was but the last time we ever saw sort of historical like
• 2:14:30
  this was something like like the time worried or the mask of
• 2:14:33
  manager or whatever and booktube was never like You know you had
• 2:14:38
  Vivid character's and you had lots of visitation is drainable.
• 2:14:44
  In a way that makes this feel quite again despite anything.
• 2:14:48
  and I don't know whether that makes it just boring and maybe
• 2:14:53
  it does but it does also make it feel to me like But there's
• 2:14:57
  something deliberate going on about the way that those
• 2:15:00
  characters are interacting. I know I mean, I'm just being
• 2:15:03
  pretentious. I'm not arguing it the way I am
• 2:15:05
  with Black Orchid. This is from up.
• 2:15:07
  I think it's almost certainly a sort of great remarkable error.
• 2:15:11
  But I do think what it does mean is that you get these two guest
• 2:15:14
  characters coming in which is Richard mace and the terror that
• 2:15:17
  leader and they feel so much more robust and powerful than
• 2:15:22
  you'd get if you surrounded it with lots of small speaking
• 2:15:25
  parts of people called. And the Millers daughter and
• 2:15:30
  Patrick the poacher and I think actually in some ways what they
• 2:15:34
  would get from right is that zeroing in it makes me feel
• 2:15:38
  because right here. I've done a lot of Radio 4 and
• 2:15:44
  what he's actually almost doing here.
• 2:15:45
  We're getting an example long before big finish comes along of
• 2:15:50
  somebody writing effectively in audio script and all those small
• 2:15:53
  parts that aren't made of the parts that you'd get played by
• 2:15:57
  just members of the Repertory cup.
• 2:15:59
  And actually what we've really got here is is a very very
• 2:16:02
  focused. upon two other protagonists And the fact that
• 2:16:08
  actually it's on television because it's a radio writer
• 2:16:10
  having not really written TV makes it kind of interesting and
• 2:16:14
  the reason that I like the visitation in spite of all is
• 2:16:17
  you're watching somebody learn in real time how to write TV.
• 2:16:22
  And what you get a few weeks later is Earth shot, which is so
• 2:16:26
  remarkably different. but for me, the presentation feels like
• 2:16:30
  that necessary sort of Step that to something which is different
• 2:16:34
  and richer which is why you know, I mean, it depends whether
• 2:16:38
  you're like say well or not, and I know that It's a controversial
• 2:16:41
  figure and like like I can see why the visitation feels like
• 2:16:46
  it's in some ways to sort of. I think of all say would scripts
• 2:16:49
  the one which has the least personality.
• 2:16:51
  I do feel as a result. There's something quite
• 2:16:54
  fascinating about it and as a result because if it's oldness I
• 2:17:00
  kind of want to sort of keep it in because it doesn't just like
• 2:17:09
  a sort of I don't know. It feels like something.
• 2:17:12
  Something's growing out of it for me.
• 2:17:15
  So that's one of my points. I got probably not an awful lot.
• 2:17:20
  I think the terrible actors are genuinely interesting.
• 2:17:23
  I think it's the first attempt Doctor Who was made to do a
• 2:17:27
  monster to species which actually has a personality since
• 2:17:31
  I would say probably the zygote. I think for that reason itself
• 2:17:36
  and I think it's actually hardly successful.
• 2:17:38
  I mean it would be helpful if maybe the terrible activator
• 2:17:41
  also had a name that would make my argument for my potential
• 2:17:44
  argument much more convincing if we could be terrible that we've
• 2:17:49
  got brought on the Tabernacle rob.
• 2:17:51
  It would be like a chipmunk Navy would be terrible.
• 2:17:54
  It would be like a chip on your name.
• 2:17:55
  He could be called the story. That was another villain anyway,
• 2:18:03
  and we just You know, I think that was a really interesting.
• 2:18:09
  It's obviously so that in a Thing which I was got kind of
• 2:18:13
  bothered about as a young he had these big monster and we hadn't
• 2:18:18
  ever bothered to try to find another sort of popular Monster
• 2:18:22
  since and I think that all those that would ever does and I think
• 2:18:27
  of perfectly valid reasons, I feel the type the first genuine
• 2:18:31
  attempt at doing something actually which feels character
• 2:18:34
  full of rich with a monster and for that reason as well.
• 2:18:38
  It seems to me in some ways has a different flavor to anything
• 2:18:43
  that we've seen in Tom Baker the way that monsters are done on
• 2:18:47
  screen, which I think he's good. And I think actually also I like
• 2:18:52
  Davidson in this I think Davis is actually quite funny.
• 2:18:54
  I think that this is the one moment as well where we see
• 2:18:57
  Davidson playing the part. with the frustration of the people
• 2:19:03
  aren't giving him enough credit and taking them seriously. and
• 2:19:07
  he's recognition that he's the doctrine should get it and I
• 2:19:10
  that the bit which I particularly love is when he's
• 2:19:15
  just has a I mean his voice goes up five octaves doing it, but
• 2:19:19
  who's in the house with the nicer?
• 2:19:22
  And if you've quite previously he just he just I find all of
• 2:19:33
  that stuff. I think Davis has such an
• 2:19:35
  energy. In a way, he doesn't only a week
• 2:19:38
  or two before he was filming with what to do so that it's not
• 2:19:41
  quite the right doctor yet. I really hope the visitation in
• 2:19:45
  the way that I'm sure if we found the Highlanders, I would
• 2:19:48
  love the Highlanders for seeing a unique child and performance.
• 2:19:51
  I think the visit I think Davis and performance in the
• 2:19:54
  visitation is genuinely really really good and very very
• 2:19:58
  different and for that reason alone as well alongside
• 2:20:01
  everything else. So not alone.
• 2:20:02
  What am I saying? I say keep the visitation.
• 2:20:05
  Is this the one where he's fiddling about with a console at
• 2:20:09
  the beginning and tears the bit off because he's so appalled
• 2:20:12
  that he's found. Yes in this God awful soap opera
• 2:20:14
  in season 19 and he just so fidgety because he doesn't know
• 2:20:17
  how to handle any of it asks wonderful that bit and of
• 2:20:22
  course, I mean and just breaking up I'm gonna do something with
• 2:20:30
  this. Yeah, and arguably that's you
• 2:20:34
  know, that is also an education is really really backing that
• 2:20:38
  one of the best bits of the scene.
• 2:20:39
  He's just trying yes but to turn a Moment of era into sort of
• 2:20:48
  creative genius that's Davidson being I think so good in this I
• 2:20:52
  think it's great that loyal about call yourself a time lord
• 2:20:55
  of broken clock keeps time better than you it might be one
• 2:20:58
  of the most artificial lines of dialogue ever spoken on
• 2:21:00
  television, but I've had that it's so many times by Doctor Who
• 2:21:04
  fans something. Yeah.
• 2:21:06
  Yeah. Nathan like the it's a strange
• 2:21:12
  flavor that is attention, but open hasn't said tired from yet.
• 2:21:17
  I've got it might be coming. Yeah, I think you so I think I
• 2:21:23
  think the person who gets what Eric say would brings to the
• 2:21:27
  show is El sandifar who kind of says that say it has good taste.
• 2:21:33
  But perhaps not quite as much talent corresponding with it and
• 2:21:38
  he has good sources like he has good instincts for things to try
• 2:21:43
  and imitate and so, you know homes, Bob Holmes is obviously
• 2:21:48
  someone that he admires and he's absolutely right to admire him.
• 2:21:51
  You know, He'll Do Slip back and he will imitate Douglas Adams.
• 2:21:56
  He chooses Evelyn Wars the loved one as an inspiration for what I
• 2:22:02
  think is his best script and he does not get some stories that I
• 2:22:08
  think are really properly enjoyable.
• 2:22:10
  And like I hate reservation of the darling's a great deal and
• 2:22:16
  we'll get on to it. I think when we talk about
• 2:22:18
  chocolate or on but man, you know, it's it moves and
• 2:22:23
  interesting things happen and stuff and and here what I see is
• 2:22:29
  he? This is his first attempt to
• 2:22:31
  Doctor Who and so he takes the time.
• 2:22:33
  Warrior I think as an inspiration but what we get is
• 2:22:36
  the time Warrior without any of the kind of wit and fun and
• 2:22:42
  cleverness that makes the time Warrior what it is and I think
• 2:22:45
  you know the time worrying is a great story.
• 2:22:47
  But what's great about it isn't that it's an alien stranded in
• 2:22:51
  the past who is trying to use sort of primitive human
• 2:22:54
  technology in order to kind of get back or or whatever to sort
• 2:22:58
  of rescue himself. What is funny is that you've got
• 2:23:01
  links who is a hilariously funny character.
• 2:23:04
  You've got David daycare's character and he's boyfriend,
• 2:23:07
  you know all so hilarious, you know, like all of that stuff is
• 2:23:12
  so funny. It's so Bleak and dark and funny
• 2:23:16
  that story and none of that comes through here.
• 2:23:20
  And I think like I tend to agree with Rod about like the Middle
• 2:23:25
  episodes where it is just people going places like that's super
• 2:23:29
  tedious. There's no actual kind of thing
• 2:23:32
  happening. here and in his next script You know, he doesn't
• 2:23:36
  manage to create a four-part story at all with reverses and
• 2:23:40
  and plot developments and stuff like that.
• 2:23:43
  He makes what is to be a good decision to do to to part
• 2:23:47
  stories and that's fine. And I think that that's why that
• 2:23:49
  works here. It's just too Hollow.
• 2:23:51
  It takes too long for anything to happen.
• 2:23:53
  And you know, like it's cruel to have John's evidence at the
• 2:23:58
  beginning there in a sense because he's so great and he is
• 2:24:03
  like a character from the time for you know, he is like a bob
• 2:24:07
  home's character. He's positive.
• 2:24:11
  This is medicinal. Yeah, yeah, you know.
• 2:24:19
  And then he gets sort of thrown away and he's just replaced with
• 2:24:22
  a lot of people who are much less interesting.
• 2:24:24
  Yeah, so and Yeah, this just a massive seen this and a kind of
• 2:24:32
  boringness to it. And it just makes me want to go
• 2:24:35
  and watch the time Warrior instead I think is how I was
• 2:24:38
  interfa about it. Joe you've got the casting vote
• 2:24:43
  what I feel like this is the quietest Invasion on record
• 2:24:46
  because nobody really finds out the Terra laptops are there are
• 2:24:49
  there that's all hidden away for the whole story and then
• 2:24:51
  murdered horribly at the end. So it is the quietest Doctor Who
• 2:24:55
  invasion on record but and there's a lot of Rod I agree
• 2:25:01
  with plenty of what you said Nathan Iberia plenty of what you
• 2:25:03
  said. However, I am going to put this
• 2:25:06
  through because everybody on this call is at least 44 years
• 2:25:12
  old at above and not five years old, which I think this story is
• 2:25:16
  absolutely perfect for and I think when you watch this as a
• 2:25:21
  young kid, you probably loved it.
• 2:25:22
  It's got a sparkly Android in it.
• 2:25:25
  It's got lizard monsters in it. It's got our family being a
• 2:25:28
  massive in the first five minutes.
• 2:25:29
  It's not can I tell you a really embarrassing confession what you
• 2:25:34
  just I was I was picked out just turned 16 and now you're too
• 2:25:38
  old. This is a positive.
• 2:25:41
  Actually supporting what you saying?
• 2:25:42
  Maybe I was very young 16 year old.
• 2:25:44
  I remember I wasn't going to tell this because I thought this
• 2:25:46
  is part of embarrassing to tell the story.
• 2:25:48
  I remember going around to classmates after episode 1
• 2:25:51
  telling them what amazing Cliffhanger the click on at the
• 2:25:55
  end of episode one was episode one.
• 2:25:57
  I just I love the episode. I was in trance by episode.
• 2:26:01
  Well just always clever. I mean that is just it's
• 2:26:04
  probably the latest in the age right then from 5 to 50, please
• 2:26:08
  don't please don't um, it's got fun music for out.
• 2:26:12
  It's got us running around in the woods.
• 2:26:14
  There's enough music to keep it as sorry enough action to keep
• 2:26:17
  it going. Yeah.
• 2:26:18
  I think the shit out of address, you know, that's Spangly Android
• 2:26:25
  attacking Nyssa in the Tardis now.
• 2:26:27
  Yeah, we can also this is in substantial and it's boring but
• 2:26:30
  there's a reason why this story came second or first in the dwn
• 2:26:34
  poll back in night, and that's because it struck a chord with
• 2:26:37
  kids at the time and so I don't think we're in any real position
• 2:26:41
  a 44 and above to look at the visitation and go well that's
• 2:26:45
  all a bit tedious and boring isn't it when it thrilled so
• 2:26:48
  many children aged five to 15 rods back in the 1980s.
• 2:26:54
  So I think this is a fun pop boiler for children and that is
• 2:26:58
  why I'd like to put it is very popular this very can.
• 2:27:03
  I very quickly say something about the dwm poll.
• 2:27:06
  Oh, please I'm always on the show.
• 2:27:12
  It came to came last. So do we need to appeal to it
• 2:27:16
  again? You know, I mean that isn't a
• 2:27:20
  bad argument and time. Well it Rob and Nathan might
• 2:27:26
  need to put the fingers in the air there is but part of the
• 2:27:28
  reason for doing this podcast was an antidote to the 60th dwn
• 2:27:33
  poll the poor heaven sent as the greatest doctor story of all
• 2:27:36
  time. And it was yeah that made us do
• 2:27:40
  this podcast saying maybe there's another way I think the
• 2:27:44
  visitation was second though visitation rights.
• 2:28:00
  We studied this stuff too much, you know, we're too used to it
• 2:28:03
  and what he was saying Joe just makes when I was I was I found
• 2:28:11
  it gorgeous and I remember also the excitement.
• 2:28:13
  I've now read a few Target notice as the moment when Ralph
• 2:28:20
  How is Ralph's dead on the on the staircase to see some an egg
• 2:28:27
  in finally shoot a ray gun and kill somebody?
• 2:28:29
  Yeah, which is what all the novelizations. such an exciting
• 2:28:35
  thrill and actually to have a proper at this stage of the
• 2:28:38
  series because I think that you know that I think the
• 2:28:40
  eccentricity of season 19 as a first time viewer with
• 2:28:45
  expectations of what Doctor Who should be like the visitation
• 2:28:48
  doing it, but doing it in the 17th century setting felt really
• 2:28:52
  thrilling and quite beautiful and Yeah, and I think as an
• 2:28:58
  adult I can't really honestly defend it too high, but I was at
• 2:29:03
  the time loved it and I remember getting the first Target number
• 2:29:08
  is a story in season 19 and I bought it and it had Davidson on
• 2:29:13
  the cup and a dreadful cover and I bet it time and time again in
• 2:29:17
  part because it's exactly the same as the TVs.
• 2:29:20
  So and I found that wonderful as well.
• 2:29:22
  I mean I was a very basic tour of Europe who was about to fall
• 2:29:26
  in love with Lady crime. So well sexual awaken Lady Gaga
• 2:29:31
  how old I was when this came and out on VHS.
• 2:29:41
  I was probably 13 maybe when I got to the end and the terror
• 2:29:46
  episode face was popping and melted and London has burning I
• 2:29:51
  was perfectly convinced. I was never going to see TV that
• 2:29:53
  was better than that ever again. I might just stop right there.
• 2:29:56
  It has also going to put a call out.
• 2:29:59
  I've got possibly I know there's lots of competition but possibly
• 2:30:03
  one of the worst actors in the whole Doctor Who the head man
• 2:30:06
  when he delivers his mind to be giving off partnering.
• 2:30:09
  Oh my God, he's terrible. Yeah, but then he's also
• 2:30:13
  possessed well for any actor, although Teigen is in this
• 2:30:20
  season, and yes, we've not got that Nathan.
• 2:30:23
  Let's come to your second story. Um, okay.
• 2:30:30
  Well in in that case I am going to take the obvious route and
• 2:30:35
  choose earthshock for jettisoning.
• 2:30:38
  Um, which is what everyone else is thinking and it's not because
• 2:30:43
  it's a bad story in itself. It is because of what it does to
• 2:30:47
  80's Doctor Who and because it becomes the template for a
• 2:30:52
  series of increasingly unpleasant stories and and it
• 2:30:57
  kind of agreement boring stories and it sends us kind of on a
• 2:31:04
  trajectory that ultimately I think ends in the Hiatus at the
• 2:31:09
  very least and perhaps even eventually the cancellation.
• 2:31:12
  I think that it has a bad influence on the show and it
• 2:31:17
  shows with the one thing that he's good at is riding stories
• 2:31:20
  about space and he's fighting monsters, which is not a
• 2:31:24
  register to the show has done before and it shouldn't I think
• 2:31:28
  of being repeatedly attempted during the season so in itself,
• 2:31:33
  I think that Earth shock is not bad and I have very very very
• 2:31:39
  strong memory of watching episode one for the first time
• 2:31:41
  and thinking it was absolutely extraordinary and I don't think
• 2:31:45
  I was wrong to think that but I'm just gonna say but because
• 2:31:50
  of the terrible effect it has on the program.
• 2:31:54
  I want to I want to eject Um, yeah, and and I guess the other
• 2:32:05
  thing that I wanted to go for is because of the death of Kyle.
• 2:32:11
  Professor Kyle who is a guild simply because say what I think
• 2:32:17
  can't work out what to do with her.
• 2:32:19
  She probably should have been left behind on the planet and
• 2:32:22
  not made her way into the second plot given that she has nothing
• 2:32:26
  to do there at all. We could have left her and
• 2:32:31
  handsome mustache guy behind. What's his name?
• 2:32:33
  He's got left-hand Scott. It's not the best massage of the
• 2:32:39
  season of that will come in time flight, but it is a pretty good
• 2:32:46
  and he does go into the pro but the death of Kyle just kind of
• 2:32:51
  shows that he's not quite as good at structuring script does
• 2:32:57
  he could be and it is a thing that he does a fair amount in
• 2:33:01
  his story is going forward, which is just I can't think of
• 2:33:04
  anything to do with these characters.
• 2:33:05
  So we'll have them kill and Kyle shouldn't have been killed.
• 2:33:09
  She doesn't do anything wrong. you know, it's unpleasant to
• 2:33:14
  watch like it doesn't make us suddenly realize how bad the
• 2:33:19
  Cybermen are or anything like that.
• 2:33:21
  It doesn't it's a pretend dramatic beat.
• 2:33:24
  And so I think that's bad. I think I have too much just say
• 2:33:29
  one counter to that because when I first yeah.
• 2:33:33
  Again, when I was younger that was somebody being murdered in
• 2:33:37
  the side at the Tardis, which was my safe space when I was a
• 2:33:42
  kid. I when I first watched it that
• 2:33:43
  was so horrific that in the pit of my stomach.
• 2:33:47
  I knew something was wrong in this story and that where we
• 2:33:51
  were heading our wasn't gonna lie.
• 2:33:53
  So I think dramatically for me at that point that really hit
• 2:33:57
  home. I agree with your point and I
• 2:33:59
  agree. I don't think she ever should
• 2:34:01
  have come into that second half of the story.
• 2:34:02
  I think it's meretricious though.
• 2:34:04
  I think it's cheating. Anyone can type that.
• 2:34:07
  Do you know what I mean? Like, I just don't think that
• 2:34:09
  that's a real proper kind of moment that earned in any way
• 2:34:13
  and so let me move on to my my second my third fifth.
• 2:34:19
  I don't know where I'm up to. My other thing is that I think
• 2:34:23
  the Cybermen are bad and that the Cybermen the reintroduction
• 2:34:28
  of this this new type of Cybermen.
• 2:34:30
  He's kind of bad and now it's the sidemen's Cyber men's role
• 2:34:35
  to be bad. You know that the monsters you
• 2:34:38
  have when Terry Nation goes off to California to try and flog
• 2:34:43
  The Darlings. They have a real sort of feel of
• 2:34:45
  like, oh, well, I guess we'd better have the Cybermen in
• 2:34:49
  these one and and like I think the sidemen are amazing in the
• 2:34:53
  10th Planet, you know, I think the invasion is one of the great
• 2:34:56
  glories of tale of vision generally, you know like the
• 2:35:00
  Cybermen the barely in it, obviously, but like when Russell
• 2:35:07
  brings the sidemen back in In age of Steel in Rise of the
• 2:35:12
  Cybermen he has to do a massive repair job on them because they
• 2:35:16
  are not at all interesting. I think they're just kind of
• 2:35:20
  robots with Darth Vader voices. There's no kind of premise to
• 2:35:26
  them or sense of them being anything other than a thing.
• 2:35:31
  We picked out of the monster the Doctor Who monster book so it
• 2:35:35
  kind of ruins the the premise of the sacrament and all together
• 2:35:39
  and he will go on to rule in the Daleks in a similar way.
• 2:35:43
  There's nothing interesting or darling he about the Daleks in
• 2:35:46
  Resurrection of the Daleks. They're just another bunch of
• 2:35:48
  people with guns. I think which is part of the
• 2:35:51
  problem. They're not the music threat
• 2:35:53
  that David Whitaker manages to make them.
• 2:35:56
  And so they're just kind of boring.
• 2:35:58
  So I think he ruins the side man for the 80s because that's the
• 2:36:02
  pattern that we get for the side men going forward.
• 2:36:05
  There's a little bit of an attempt to walk that back in
• 2:36:08
  Attack of the site man and give them actual side and things to
• 2:36:11
  do but you know, that story has its own problems.
• 2:36:15
  And then I think the death of Andrew. is a huge and deserves
• 2:36:25
  to be there perhaps for the reaction that I had when I was a
• 2:36:29
  teenager to it, but it's less interesting than it seems to be
• 2:36:34
  and time flight when I all kind of go and Rick wouldn't want us
• 2:36:43
  to mourn he'd want us to go after the great exception like
• 2:36:50
  like it's it's not it like all of that stuff.
• 2:36:54
  You know, you've got these four characters.
• 2:36:56
  No one's there. They do the usual thing of kind
• 2:36:59
  of being defined by a very thin, you know paragraph length bio
• 2:37:04
  and then the actors performance but as Rob pointed out over and
• 2:37:08
  over again, they're completely inconsistent from story to story
• 2:37:11
  and he it's like we're trying to have a big dramatic moment and
• 2:37:14
  we do it by sacrificing the the regular that Everyone likes the
• 2:37:18
  least and that will have kind of the least impact on everyone
• 2:37:22
  else going forward. The show isn't equipped to
• 2:37:25
  handle of death of a major character.
• 2:37:27
  It just can't do that at this point because everyone's to
• 2:37:30
  cardboard and no one's really real enough for any of that to
• 2:37:34
  land in any proper way. and so I don't know, you know the death
• 2:37:41
  of of Eric diet licenses the death of Perry, I think in mind
• 2:37:46
  warp, I think again, it's another thing that has just a
• 2:37:50
  negative effect on the tone of the show going forward.
• 2:37:53
  So for that reason and I'm sure the rest of you agree with me
• 2:37:57
  that the shock should be heated into the sun.
• 2:38:01
  Okay, interesting a shock indeed.
• 2:38:05
  Let's go to comments down Hollingsworth set a highlight
• 2:38:08
  with the shock of the cyber men turning up and shaking their
• 2:38:11
  fists in randomly emotional ways.
• 2:38:13
  You killed that you bastards. They're all read was great in
• 2:38:18
  the peculiar way, and this is Seward creating good drama
• 2:38:20
  before he got laser. Daniel Knight says a proper
• 2:38:24
  Blockbuster great to watch but scratch under the surface and
• 2:38:27
  there are plot holes the redesigned side mirror superb as
• 2:38:30
  its Barrel wheat and anyone who says otherwise is a full the
• 2:38:35
  ending was shocking in this day whether you liked adrik or not
• 2:38:38
  James Lark said, I'm not sure whether the ecstatic reaction to
• 2:38:41
  this was response to a genuine classic or the sound of people
• 2:38:44
  waking up after six weeks of who induced narcolepsy, but stuff
• 2:38:48
  does at least happen in this one and it's entertaining and a dumb
• 2:38:52
  thing too hard about it. Why Peter out everyone
• 2:38:55
  absolutely delivers the nine year old me positively squid at
• 2:38:58
  the episode one Cliffhanger. Yes, sir.
• 2:39:00
  Read is interesting casting but ignore that so per plot also
• 2:39:05
  redesigned to the side men Butler's I cried over the black
• 2:39:08
  credits at the end if a glass be princess style over substance,
• 2:39:12
  but what style it has a fun action adventure romp with an
• 2:39:15
  incredible final episode. I will read his cast perfectly
• 2:39:19
  and her performance is only criticized By Boring hipsters.
• 2:39:23
  Big Orange Michael hugely overrated same story told twice
• 2:39:28
  two memorable Cliffhangers and a musical score are all that this
• 2:39:32
  has got going for it. Otherwise, it's fairly standard
• 2:39:35
  Doctor Who there isn't the classic many think it is.
• 2:39:37
  I say keep it only for historic value of Patrick's device.
• 2:39:41
  Jason Thompson says a Sideburn comes storming back up to seven
• 2:39:45
  years with an action adventure of the sort Doctor Who has never
• 2:39:48
  really done before David's side leader is Sublime and I love how
• 2:39:53
  it all ties together with the king of the Cyber leader
• 2:39:55
  damaging the consoles. So the doctor can't just pop
• 2:39:58
  back to the freighter to get adrift.
• 2:40:00
  I've read that start with saying he pops back to the freight to
• 2:40:03
  get adrak off and I thought I didn't say that in Earth shock.
• 2:40:06
  But yeah, finally a production where everybody's on the same
• 2:40:12
  page Malcolm Clarke's clanging school is the service is in
• 2:40:16
  service of the story and Grimes Direction arguably made him the
• 2:40:20
  most valuable player of the Season Patrick is given a
• 2:40:23
  Showing and its stubbornness proving to be his downfall is a
• 2:40:26
  lovely moment all done. Say was greatest hour more to do
• 2:40:30
  with Direction though AC quick cutting more akin to Modern TV
• 2:40:33
  and the ending I cried all evening as a kid Martin Parsons
• 2:40:38
  banging. I don't want Doctor Who to be
• 2:40:40
  like this all the time but a bit of brutal nihilism once in a
• 2:40:43
  while as a special treat its lovely great score great sidemen
• 2:40:47
  Gareth Bale says brilliant not a cyber foot wrong and the best
• 2:40:51
  cyber marching music too. I also include both Barrel Reed
• 2:40:54
  casting and killing out because good things and pin just class
• 2:40:58
  for once a decent case set and they turn the lighting down the
• 2:41:02
  shot of the stealing bubbling remains of Snyder is great part
• 2:41:05
  one is so full about this here intentioned and departed full of
• 2:41:09
  Menace. This is another great story a
• 2:41:12
  clever Arc starting. I'm finishing with what killed
• 2:41:14
  the dinosaurs is a brilliant idea.
• 2:41:16
  And of course, there's a death of Patrick.
• 2:41:18
  So pointing me handle keep it barely round all this was saved
• 2:41:22
  by Its production plot is so one note, which is fine for a
• 2:41:26
  one-off watch that doesn't reward return visits.
• 2:41:29
  Any credit goes to the composer the designer the lighting
• 2:41:33
  director special effects costume director, Peter Grimm Wade.
• 2:41:36
  Jamie says devastating superb and emotional but followed by a
• 2:41:41
  right stinker. We'll get there Jamie scathing.
• 2:41:44
  Tom. Turlo says Tom Tello of all the
• 2:41:48
  stories this year. Only earthshock is any good but
• 2:41:50
  that proves to be a mixed blessing since they would think
• 2:41:53
  Doctor Who should be like this all the time going forward
• 2:41:56
  exactly. What Nathan just that's so mop
• 2:42:00
  Nathan was quite skating of Earth shock.
• 2:42:02
  How do you feel? Well, I mean it's hard to argue
• 2:42:06
  with all of Nathan's points. And I think that Legacy is
• 2:42:09
  really bad in the same way that the legacy of Andrew but at the
• 2:42:15
  same time I wouldn't argue that Amazon isn't really good and the
• 2:42:21
  only response to a shock is that inspired all of its Sports?
• 2:42:26
  I think it's Actually, really good television and not much of
• 2:42:31
  it is Doctor Who necessarily even necessarily feels like
• 2:42:35
  yeah. Um, I think that he told I'm I
• 2:42:39
  have a job in woking. Years ago where I was a you
• 2:42:45
  know, I had to join us sort of commuter train and then I had to
• 2:42:48
  go working station and going working in office and every
• 2:42:51
  single day. I got through it.
• 2:42:53
  This is huge kind of people going at 8 in the morning
• 2:42:55
  through the ticket barriers and I just in my head played the
• 2:42:59
  Malcolm out March of the sibling music kind of got me through
• 2:43:03
  because I I don't like the sight of them.
• 2:43:09
  I think the sidemen is shit. Actually.
• 2:43:10
  I don't think that you. accept this because this is somewhere
• 2:43:19
  where they actually I mean, you know, they don't fit him with
• 2:43:25
  what we knew before but thank you the kit had a Jerry Davis
• 2:43:28
  stuff is very dull. I mean, I think the invasion is
• 2:43:31
  extraordinary, but it's not because of the sidemen and I
• 2:43:35
  think the Earth shot coming back the only interesting monsters
• 2:43:40
  ever, but you were the darkness and that's partly because they
• 2:43:42
  were iconic and you could do in things with them being like Um,
• 2:43:47
  so I've been just feel ways a bit like men, you know robots
• 2:43:50
  and I think that what earthshot gets right is that this time
• 2:43:54
  alone. It makes them feel quite
• 2:43:56
  threatening and I love the fact as I say Malcolm Hearts visit us
• 2:44:00
  from part. I love that sort of sense of
• 2:44:03
  them. Just marching as those commuters
• 2:44:07
  did that for me had a real power to it.
• 2:44:09
  I found that sort of sense of just having no real identity,
• 2:44:15
  even though David Banks has emotion and Mark Hardy is a You
• 2:44:20
  know sort of funny to London what I got.
• 2:44:22
  That's a 12 year old was a real sense of their just being You
• 2:44:27
  know just this sort of really powerful emotionless. crowd and
• 2:44:35
  you know, even though the episode 3 Cliffhanger is the
• 2:44:38
  visual effects. I you know Davis looking at the
• 2:44:41
  screening gulping as he just sees all these sidemen mole
• 2:44:43
  marching. No, I find that actually really
• 2:44:46
  quite powerful. I think Peter grimwade who?
• 2:44:52
  Is I think a far better writing people didn't vote for actually,
• 2:44:54
  but I do and and actually not as interesting a direct was people
• 2:44:58
  often think I think if I think earthshot genuinely feels like
• 2:45:03
  all of its false. Um, like something that actually
• 2:45:08
  there's a reason why I'm going to do tales of the TARDIS and
• 2:45:11
  you're going to open before you do your new big Disney show.
• 2:45:15
  That this is the one that Russell decides.
• 2:45:18
  He's going to write a little script for before showcasing it
• 2:45:21
  unedited because it kind of still feels like you can get
• 2:45:25
  away with that which is very rare for most TV doesn't mean I
• 2:45:28
  have to love Earth shock. But what I do find interesting
• 2:45:32
  about is well as it seems of almost all saved with scripts
• 2:45:35
  the most Redemptive Which is peculiar because it does
• 2:45:39
  obviously murder Matthew Waterhouse.
• 2:45:42
  I kind of agree with Nathan that the death of Professor Kyle
• 2:45:46
  feels like the one lingering moment of actual nastiness. but
• 2:45:52
  I also I get what? Joe says, I mean it always I
• 2:45:57
  think that justification because there is that it's like a
• 2:46:00
  prefiguring that something hallowed is now about to be
• 2:46:04
  broken and when Kyle dies in the Tardis and it's so random and
• 2:46:10
  it's so unheroic and it's not even a Cyberman shooting of
• 2:46:13
  deliberately. It's someone it's just being
• 2:46:16
  caught in the door and the gun going off and that feels so
• 2:46:18
  cool. And that of course is the same
• 2:46:20
  sort of Cruelty about the fact that when adrik dies it's not in
• 2:46:24
  a moment of successful heroism. It's it's still kind of
• 2:46:27
  accidental and that actually for me makes it more moving and I
• 2:46:31
  find the fact that you all the way to the Earth in the only
• 2:46:34
  other human once you get onto the freighter.
• 2:46:36
  Anyway, I know that all those people so one turning into such
• 2:46:40
  but you know only ring the trait gets to come up and otherwise,
• 2:46:44
  you know, a year or two later. There's no way that brings Scott
• 2:46:49
  virgin. They would all be dead
• 2:46:51
  something. I mean, what is later on is that
• 2:46:55
  Skateboard had gone away and then it would have just
• 2:46:57
  accidentally blown up. And anyway, because because that
• 2:47:01
  would have just been the cynical thing but there's something not
• 2:47:03
  cynical about it feels to actually like It feels like it's
• 2:47:08
  Humanity somehow overpowering something.
• 2:47:10
  I I love the Journey of the Scotland shop.
• 2:47:14
  I love the fact that he starts up an episode one of these
• 2:47:16
  brutal. He dislikes the doctor is an
• 2:47:19
  emerge him and he becomes somebody later on.
• 2:47:22
  And actually feels actually like that.
• 2:47:23
  They are now quite Nick of this Courtney like and quite
• 2:47:27
  Brigadier, and I found that The fact that that happens without
• 2:47:31
  it being almost overstated. I found always quite quite
• 2:47:35
  laughable. I love the fact that when Scott
• 2:47:37
  eventually gets to meet, you know, you know that he's there
• 2:47:41
  we can and they start off and then he gets to meet Billy.
• 2:47:45
  He says Scott Captain. I mean, I'm not saying it's
• 2:47:48
  great dialogue. I didn't find it quite moving
• 2:47:51
  and I find that those characters are quite moving and even Bergen
• 2:47:55
  who's played by an actress called June Bland, who is quite
• 2:47:58
  right? Oh, yes same here, and she's
• 2:48:03
  great. As well, but I love the fact
• 2:48:09
  that again say would this point has the the realization the
• 2:48:15
  adrix death has more power when it's not actually amongst a
• 2:48:18
  complete Act of college. Like what is the Deep?
• 2:48:21
  You know at the end of it you just say well Buicks to The Hive
• 2:48:24
  but only because they would forgot to actually mean he's
• 2:48:30
  just everyone you think oh, there's a guy in the basement.
• 2:48:33
  You just I think say we just one more revision.
• 2:48:38
  Although we've shot it don't worry.
• 2:48:40
  So for me one of the reasons that as a 12 year old again, and
• 2:48:44
  I found a shot so powerful it seemed to me that adrik.
• 2:48:49
  Patrick's death did mean something.
• 2:48:51
  I mean I I was in tears. I really identified with that as
• 2:48:55
  well. I think it's very very
• 2:48:56
  skillfully done. I think again, there's a
• 2:48:58
  deliberate evidence to be the idea that you set up the idea
• 2:49:02
  from the very first Tardis seen but this is adjective story but
• 2:49:07
  not least not that we think it is only making friends of saying
• 2:49:11
  I think I want to leave the town discs and people are like the
• 2:49:14
  the equivalent of doing invasion of time where you set up, you
• 2:49:18
  know, rather more deadly the idea of Android really having a
• 2:49:23
  romance and then gonna down in the final scene anyway, as if to
• 2:49:26
  say that was all for nothing. Well she had it feels more
• 2:49:30
  powerful last year. We had Warriors gate didn't we
• 2:49:33
  where were in episode 1 was going what I don't go with the
• 2:49:35
  doctor and we will get all those rumbling and at the end she just
• 2:49:38
  decides to go and that's what we think is gonna happen.
• 2:49:41
  Yeah, that's it. I mean The I mean like this.
• 2:49:46
  Yeah. Sorry.
• 2:49:47
  I like the fact that Andrew. He's actually he dies trying to
• 2:49:51
  prevent the human race from I'm not existing irony.
• 2:49:55
  Like it's a mistake. He's doing it.
• 2:49:57
  He's determined to do it. Right it's the wrong thing to be
• 2:49:59
  doing, you know, if he survives were in a lot of trouble doing
• 2:50:03
  it. It's really just a funny way
• 2:50:06
  ought to make Patrick into a joke, but somehow doesn't it
• 2:50:09
  just also means that there's this young boy on his own.
• 2:50:14
  Who has made the wrong mistake, but he's so heroically trying to
• 2:50:17
  do the right thing and he's death.
• 2:50:19
  He's actually gonna be what Satan and he'll never know that
• 2:50:23
  I find that back and that isn't an accident and that's not even
• 2:50:27
  cynical. That's actually I find quite and
• 2:50:29
  we've been leading here because he's been making stupid mistakes
• 2:50:34
  all year. It's just happened to be the one
• 2:50:37
  that trips him up and interesting.
• 2:50:39
  I don't particularly read that final scene as being heroic.
• 2:50:42
  I don't read that that he's trying to save Earth.
• 2:50:45
  I read that that outdoor who's the mathematical genius wants to
• 2:50:49
  prove himself that he can beat that computer.
• 2:50:52
  So when you think about that, I've got the sum I'm gonna run
• 2:50:56
  back because I want to prove to myself.
• 2:50:58
  I'm the cleverest person in the room.
• 2:50:59
  Yeah and but that in itself, actually I can't quite what is
• 2:51:03
  yes, it's absolutely there's a whole of the Season Patrick.
• 2:51:07
  And again, you know not saying it's delivered.
• 2:51:08
  I'm not saying this is clever writing but I think he has been
• 2:51:11
  increasingly sidelined from a doctor that he doesn't get on as
• 2:51:15
  well with as the previous one and then suddenly and wants to
• 2:51:19
  go home. You have that big very sailor
• 2:51:22
  dish status at the beginning but he was finally a moment in which
• 2:51:25
  he can actually do something and he ends his life.
• 2:51:29
  And dies in the process just to try and prove that one moment.
• 2:51:33
  I can do something right and he doesn't and I find I don't know.
• 2:51:38
  I mean I I remember, you know, very very quickly.
• 2:51:42
  When I was about 13 14 years old already people were Distributing
• 2:51:45
  videos in which you would have the age of playing and you'd
• 2:51:50
  have missed 17, but actually they were playing Happy Days.
• 2:51:57
  And and it was very very funny. But at that moment of doing it
• 2:52:02
  Patrick is this basically unloved character.
• 2:52:05
  And actually that makes it somehow more the way it would be
• 2:52:08
  say as a new series where when you get something like face the
• 2:52:12
  Raven and Kara gets, you know killed for a week or something
• 2:52:16
  and we meant to be very very horribly move harder the
• 2:52:19
  wonderful thing about the shop is that we don't really like
• 2:52:21
  afro, and we feel a certain guilt and they feel a certain
• 2:52:25
  guilt because they never really connected with him when you get
• 2:52:28
  and I know but we're going into time for it as well like doing
• 2:52:31
  that but when you get that awful thing where you know, where they
• 2:52:34
  sort of give us a memoir to it. He can just say we used to fight
• 2:52:39
  a lot. I'm missing.
• 2:52:40
  I mean, it's not that saying he was the noblest companion of the
• 2:52:43
  more when I sort of diamonds to save his life.
• 2:52:50
  It's yeah, we didn't really ever liked him very much.
• 2:52:53
  Did we and and you feel embarrassed for that?
• 2:52:56
  And that's I think what gives exactly he's power and I think
• 2:52:59
  what gives Earth sockets is the actually All the way through
• 2:53:03
  he's still not kind of like a likable and they don't up that I
• 2:53:10
  mean Tegan has her big moment. I mean Tegan is the action here.
• 2:53:13
  Oh if they were going to be much much more obvious and new series
• 2:53:17
  about it. It would have been this is this
• 2:53:20
  is adrix big departure and he's going to be the one who's down
• 2:53:23
  there with the gun and he's going to be the one but actually
• 2:53:26
  is actually still just the guy on the bridge kind of looking a
• 2:53:29
  bit like a spare part of the time and then seizes the moment
• 2:53:34
  to try and be brave and dies and I find that I find that really
• 2:53:39
  really moving and I find that I'm sickly.
• 2:53:42
  Quite rare for say what's stuff? No, I mean so I think that
• 2:53:46
  reason I mean I just find myself really coming to Usher.
• 2:53:49
  I find that in spite of I think it does have a very very bad
• 2:53:53
  Legacy, I think partly because as his army, People pick up on
• 2:53:59
  the wrong things about it. Earthshot works for me because
• 2:54:02
  he doesn't feel in. And later on that brutality
• 2:54:06
  becomes just cynical become space.
• 2:54:09
  It's mostly every night and people snarling it only talking
• 2:54:12
  with each other names. Um, which is what Nick does a
• 2:54:16
  lot with his big finishes as well, which I find frustrating
• 2:54:18
  because people actually do do actually, you know, maybe have
• 2:54:21
  first names and mention that occasionally in Earth feels to
• 2:54:24
  me like that like that is going against the grain of it that
• 2:54:27
  actually there's a real heart to Earth shock and I think it's
• 2:54:30
  also as a say compared to the visitation as well where you see
• 2:54:35
  a writer who's a radio writer learning how to do TV a bit
• 2:54:39
  earthshock feels like a directors pick them up and said
• 2:54:42
  this is as close as we can get to doing an action movie in
• 2:54:45
  1980s TV, and it's so remarkable that they actually do that.
• 2:54:50
  So I think it's a remarkable bit of television and it's not my
• 2:54:54
  favorite Doctor Who's not my favorite of the season, but I do
• 2:54:57
  think it's it's an extraordinary accomplishment.
• 2:55:01
  A good joke. I want to give a third reading
• 2:55:03
  this adjective is clearly working on different levels for
• 2:55:06
  everybody because the way I read it was that he was going to go
• 2:55:09
  in there and in the back of his head.
• 2:55:11
  He's like, I'm Gonna Save the Day I'm gonna stop this ship
• 2:55:13
  crashing into work. We'll catch up with the doctor
• 2:55:16
  and I'll be hailed as the hero the piece, you know, is that
• 2:55:19
  fucking arrogant that he thinks he can do it and then that
• 2:55:22
  terrible bit where the side man shoots the console and he's like
• 2:55:25
  all this doesn't happen in Doctor Who stories what's going
• 2:55:28
  on? He just staring that's TV screen
• 2:55:31
  like and I love the final the so great choice by pretty good way
• 2:55:36
  to come back to him with that the noise of the ship all around
• 2:55:39
  him and he's just absolutely still and just tilt his head
• 2:55:43
  slightly and he's dead. It's and God he's got various
• 2:55:49
  thing. He's so well Josh, you got a
• 2:55:55
  musical cue. Yeah, so the sort of the almost
• 2:55:58
  ironic evidence and he couldn't but Davison uses his own Bash.
• 2:56:06
  Debate innocently doesn't go too schematic.
• 2:56:11
  It actually just feels know he really dramatically sensible.
• 2:56:14
  But he and again he'll never know that that badge is what
• 2:56:19
  saves them and that you know, that's it in a season where they
• 2:56:23
  fudge so many character moments that they got this bit right?
• 2:56:27
  It's a miracle the fact that we've all given it different
• 2:56:30
  readings, which is probably more out there to come.
• 2:56:32
  Um, how was nobody mentioned Barrel reject?
• 2:56:35
  I mean what? Do you remember Gary Gillette?
• 2:56:39
  There's a Gary Gillette on the on the DVD.
• 2:56:41
  So they have more than they have jealous and they have a few
• 2:56:44
  other people and Gary for the viewers at home is a former
• 2:56:47
  editor of dwn and he just talks about what a rechteck era
• 2:56:52
  casting Barrel breeders and how fast she is and she is so the
• 2:57:00
  best thing in I mean have you seen the behind the scenes
• 2:57:04
  footage of her when he What's up, and waiting?
• 2:57:10
  It's not like this in the movie. She goes, I'm sorry darling.
• 2:57:15
  He's falling over she's actually but you know what it leads into
• 2:57:20
  that criticism that people have about jnt stunt casting because
• 2:57:23
  I don't think he really puts a foot wrong in his entire era
• 2:57:27
  every time he brings in a guest actor a celebrity actor.
• 2:57:30
  I think they had value and even if they're Carson's in Fenwick,
• 2:57:35
  I think yeah, but otherwise, yes, okay, and there's one thing
• 2:57:41
  as well that actually when you've got ringway who is you
• 2:57:47
  can kind of get the census actually betraying them all
• 2:57:49
  because frankly they will read he's just a spite for the
• 2:57:53
  unpleasant. And the fact that actually it's
• 2:58:02
  played by Bobby not you know, it's not being cast as a single
• 2:58:06
  Weavers a bit. It's been played by someone that
• 2:58:09
  actually in this concept. She's just she's just nasty
• 2:58:13
  middle management. It would be interesting if you
• 2:58:18
  know wouldn't it? Yeah, it's just you've got
• 2:58:21
  barrel racing shoes be like she's drunk half position you're
• 2:58:24
  better on the walkway. That's not She doesn't belong in
• 2:58:27
  this story at all. And it's just glorious and she's
• 2:58:30
  there. So what makes them work and he's
• 2:58:33
  not. just she's just she's just you know corporate.
• 2:58:38
  I feel like she does get into it by somebody who is just who goes
• 2:58:43
  on to the thing and just snows at people because and it's and
• 2:58:46
  again, it's not that sort of say what do you think we get later
• 2:58:49
  on? He's just because I could
• 2:58:50
  genuine character. He feels like he was somebody
• 2:58:53
  it's a bit like in The Invisible enemy.
• 2:58:56
  You've got, you know, just people who are just doing
• 2:58:58
  redundant jobs and a bit bored and big Captain Greg's not not
• 2:59:04
  Captain just somebody that you just feel it just commanding a
• 2:59:10
  Fray but they're not quick. That's actually why the doctor
• 2:59:14
  is important and it's why that's got who's actually you know,
• 2:59:18
  this is his actual job. Isn't being played by their will
• 2:59:22
  read I think that will be this great casting.
• 2:59:24
  There's not and I think she's really good in it as well
• 2:59:26
  because it plays in Sparks. She just wants to get where
• 2:59:29
  she's got to go to go bonus. Yes stuff what's going on?
• 2:59:32
  And that plays into that same exact same argument that yeah, I
• 2:59:36
  don't care what's going on? Just what my bloody money.
• 2:59:38
  I mean error episode. The flights are entirely episode
• 2:59:43
  on a stroke is called contemptuous of his
• 2:59:47
  homosexuality and I think that really betrays for the reason
• 2:59:52
  that they are already so mean to him about being gay.
• 2:59:55
  That's why she calls a mystery in that way every time because
• 3:00:10
  they said was that line me. She didn't have a clue.
• 3:00:13
  What was that but she just goes for it and she gets a line like,
• 3:00:17
  you know you trade her and she literally you try she just
• 3:00:22
  wonderful. So that is my he would actually
• 3:00:25
  deny it. The way that again every old
• 3:00:30
  site Man story would have done that have been a moment where
• 3:00:32
  you just had the command of the base width would be called
• 3:00:35
  Hobson or Hobson or Dobson or whatever.
• 3:00:37
  They would actually have been he'd been initially quite quite
• 3:00:41
  a cervic and a little bit, you know rude to the doctor, but he
• 3:00:45
  would then reveal himself by episode seven or eight or
• 3:00:48
  whatever. It would be to be, you know,
• 3:00:50
  sort of adversary to assignment. Brix is just not that I mean,
• 3:00:55
  she's just gonna just wait and be cowed and then escaping in
• 3:00:59
  Escape and acted doesn't add drinks but breaks survives.
• 3:01:03
  I think that's actually really good.
• 3:01:04
  I swear like very was trouble because well because some of her
• 3:01:08
  oh, I mean almost certain you're gonna not wrong direction best.
• 3:01:12
  Wonderful. Is it so sorry.
• 3:01:16
  There is a story that she thought warp drive was actually
• 3:01:19
  the name of a row like human drive or something.
• 3:01:23
  I'm not sure if that's made up but gosh she brings intense
• 3:01:27
  value. Um, Rob said a word early out,
• 3:01:29
  which I really want to focus in on because you said crowd you
• 3:01:32
  were convinced. There was like a crowd of
• 3:01:34
  sidemen and I think for once Peter grimwade really sells the
• 3:01:38
  fact that this is an army and he does this wonderful Montage
• 3:01:41
  scene of them all bursting some walking this way some walking
• 3:01:45
  that you just think there's hundreds of these fucking things
• 3:01:47
  on the and it is utterly without hope to fight against them
• 3:01:50
  because people are being mowed down left right and Center my
• 3:01:54
  favorite bit of direction in the entire story is a jump scare and
• 3:01:58
  we very rarely get jump scares and Doctor Who and it's a bit
• 3:02:01
  where they're all going in the Tardis and then that woman it
• 3:02:04
  the sidemen just jumps out the Shadow and grabs that woman and
• 3:02:07
  she screams and I'll link back every time I classically does
• 3:02:11
  not do that to me very often. Yeah.
• 3:02:12
  There was no hope in any of the rest of the stories of this
• 3:02:15
  season to make me jump so I just think it's directed to the hill
• 3:02:18
  like you said Rob and what's my oh Patrick's Day which we've
• 3:02:22
  gone into into huge amount. I am kind of the opposite of
• 3:02:26
  Nathan. And now I fucking love
• 3:02:30
  companions when they're irritating had Clara Oswald died
• 3:02:34
  in series 9, I would have hailed that year as an absolute classic
• 3:02:38
  and I think what it does is it suddenly means that the show is
• 3:02:43
  working on a new thing and this nice comfortable season that
• 3:02:47
  we've watched. We've historical romps playing
• 3:02:48
  Cricket that farting around on that spaceship with all those
• 3:02:51
  cultural things going on. That is now it's dangerous.
• 3:02:55
  The universe is dangerous again, you know, and people can die.
• 3:03:00
  Go and you want to say something?
• 3:03:02
  Well, it just means that everyone else is now safe.
• 3:03:05
  Do you know what I mean? Like which was the status quo
• 3:03:09
  ante in any case but we now know that because I drink stand no
• 3:03:13
  one else is going to go. Do you know and it does show
• 3:03:15
  Perry goes I mean, I mean, I really feared I mean at that
• 3:03:21
  stage a year later as a 13 year old family.
• 3:03:25
  I really felt. That any companion departure was
• 3:03:30
  actually quite a way that I think you know, so I mean is
• 3:03:35
  that you might because I mean it never happened again, but I
• 3:03:41
  yeah, there was a danger. I that my last point is I got
• 3:03:47
  obviously I'll pray for our loved it is I think the last
• 3:03:51
  episode had the single most amount of scenes ever in a
• 3:03:55
  Doctor Who episode and they said it would be absolutely
• 3:03:58
  impossible for Peter Grimmer to put it off and he did it.
• 3:04:01
  He got everyone in the can. Quite skillfully and put it
• 3:04:05
  together Paisley. I think the momentum in that
• 3:04:07
  last episode and like I said you earlier that feeling in your gut
• 3:04:12
  that something is wrong that's kind of hard to pull off this
• 3:04:15
  will and they do it superbly so yeah opening.
• 3:04:19
  Brilliant. Yeah, I mean you guys are pretty
• 3:04:21
  much said it all obviously. I'm putting this through as
• 3:04:23
  well. Yeah, there are loads of plot
• 3:04:24
  holes. It's very heavy heavy handedly
• 3:04:27
  written. I mean the first episode we
• 3:04:29
  talked so much about the dinosaurs dying out and we
• 3:04:32
  really really label that point. Don't we so, you know, it's not
• 3:04:35
  surprising that comes back to bite.
• 3:04:37
  So at the end there are loads of plot gaps on that we find out
• 3:04:40
  there are 15,000 sidemen on the on the ship.
• 3:04:43
  And yeah, they are all clearly they're all going to get blown
• 3:04:45
  up at the end. So I believe it's quite happy
• 3:04:47
  for them all to Die the worst Fair obviously, which is well
• 3:04:52
  talked about is how do you strap and alien computer to a
• 3:04:56
  spaceship which is just to make sure your course goes in One
• 3:04:59
  Direction and suddenly starts time traveling.
• 3:05:01
  I mean that is just the most ludicrous plot device I've ever
• 3:05:06
  heard because it's exciting. Yeah.
• 3:05:08
  We are watching Doctor Who at this point completely gone out
• 3:05:13
  of the window, that's fine. Yeah, but just the line, how can
• 3:05:16
  how can that happen? It's time trouble.
• 3:05:18
  Yeah. It's about you know, it's
• 3:05:21
  absolutely free. I'm not gonna throw it out and
• 3:05:23
  when you watch this in context, I mean there's such great stuff.
• 3:05:25
  I remember getting first first viewing this which we talked
• 3:05:28
  about a lot. I mean the first episode you got
• 3:05:29
  up amazing Cliffhanger, which seems to come out of nowhere
• 3:05:32
  when you get the Cybermen reveal second episode.
• 3:05:35
  You got the flashbacks the old stories, you know, certainly I
• 3:05:38
  thought I was suddenly seeing Tomb of the Cybermen.
• 3:05:40
  Obviously I was until seen will in space but you got those
• 3:05:43
  flashbacks and that's really exciting three you get probably
• 3:05:46
  the pace most action orientated episode since probably early and
• 3:05:51
  then part for us we've talked about death at Rick's death and
• 3:05:54
  the silent credits every episode when you watch it as it was
• 3:05:58
  intended to go one episode at a time.
• 3:06:00
  Every episode has got such highs and such moments to it that I
• 3:06:04
  think it's great. Um, Second episode was just
• 3:06:07
  going to talk about the cast because it kind of pizza is
• 3:06:10
  giantess casting. It's quite an odd cast.
• 3:06:12
  So we start with Clifford. I think who plays Professor
• 3:06:15
  Kyle, I'm sorry, but she's absolutely bloody awful shirts.
• 3:06:19
  She's so much. That's Hey, I find out terrible
• 3:06:29
  and this you then got James Warwick who was very well known
• 3:06:33
  at the time. He puts in a good very stoic
• 3:06:35
  one-note performance rob. You said the bit of Nick Cortney
• 3:06:39
  and I can definitely see that then you throw in a bit of stunt
• 3:06:41
  casting Barrel read. I completely agree with each
• 3:06:43
  other. She's magnificent.
• 3:06:45
  I love June Bland as well and what clever idea to have two
• 3:06:48
  older women as they as the leads on the freighter.
• 3:06:51
  That's great. Then he got ringway.
• 3:06:54
  He's very archers and he's no surprise who the trader he's
• 3:06:59
  pretty much twirling his mustache right from that first
• 3:07:02
  scene and then you get the biggest casting hit of all David
• 3:07:05
  Banks who you don't even see a part from his chin.
• 3:07:07
  I mean, he absolutely eats the scenery with the I believe it
• 3:07:11
  does not and it's no wonder he keeps coming back and back and
• 3:07:13
  back. Because Nathan you're right.
• 3:07:16
  Beside meant by this point haven't got an awful lot going
• 3:07:18
  for them. But while they do have from now
• 3:07:20
  onwards, it's David Banks and he makes the most of what he's
• 3:07:23
  giving and then my third point is the sets.
• 3:07:26
  I think there are some great great setting it got the caves
• 3:07:29
  the beginning which they allowed to be dark and Moody.
• 3:07:31
  I think the freighter sets are magnificent and I love the fact
• 3:07:35
  that they use some model shots as well to mix in with the live
• 3:07:38
  action, which is quite unusual and this in this period so I
• 3:07:41
  have model shots of of sets and use them to give this give the
• 3:07:45
  ship more space and feeling I love the facts on different
• 3:07:49
  levels, which gives you Robbie we're talking about the endless
• 3:07:52
  March of the Siteman but having the steps to walk up really make
• 3:07:55
  that difference and really gives you the feeling of them making
• 3:07:58
  that assault on the door. I think the Flight Deck with all
• 3:08:01
  its different like all these different doors on and off.
• 3:08:04
  It's great. Yeah.
• 3:08:05
  I think the sets are really spectacular some really helps
• 3:08:08
  selling but it's not of course it's going through and just one
• 3:08:11
  last point because you say about sex a game the lighting So good
• 3:08:15
  in this I don't know if it's the same fellow that did forth.
• 3:08:17
  Doomsday. There's only a couple this year
• 3:08:19
  where that I'd say are are lit for TV at the time and not let
• 3:08:24
  the TV 10 years ago. But yeah, this is the cave seats
• 3:08:28
  are just so brilliantly done people in silhouette all the
• 3:08:31
  time were just the lights bobbing.
• 3:08:33
  Anyway, yes, so there's silhouette guards which we
• 3:08:36
  haven't talked about because we see them, you know next season
• 3:08:38
  dressed up as a rust or Warrior robot, but my God, they look
• 3:08:41
  really well here and they say it's the sets they're making
• 3:08:44
  those sets have been over lit. The whole illusion would have
• 3:08:47
  been killed. So yeah great, right and even
• 3:08:50
  actually I've got that again as a contrast of the visitation as
• 3:08:55
  well just it's something which you you know is an echo from
• 3:09:01
  Alien as well. But but the intelligence of
• 3:09:06
  knowing that those dots on the scanner winking off mean deaths
• 3:09:12
  with a sort of funny little boys actually just really really
• 3:09:18
  tense and he's not just it's just a form of You know visual
• 3:09:24
  horror, which we're not used to from Doctor Who because it's
• 3:09:26
  actually quite sophisticated and I think that's really smart as
• 3:09:29
  well. It's for the smart tricks and it
• 3:09:33
  has more than one trick. It's also so hard to imagine
• 3:09:36
  what season 19 would be like without any other story.
• 3:09:40
  You know, she's a 19, you know future Earth shock out and put
• 3:09:43
  it another just another you know, but a story like more than
• 3:09:46
  dead as well which I love but the season would just feel
• 3:09:49
  really strangely. You know, let's talk actually
• 3:09:55
  gives it a bit of where they mean.
• 3:09:57
  It may not be as a say. I think the best story there,
• 3:10:00
  but I do think it just gives a whole season feels like it's
• 3:10:05
  grounded by that. Was like you said earlier isn't
• 3:10:08
  it gives us a sense of structure because it feels like everything
• 3:10:10
  is up to that huge climax moment.
• 3:10:13
  Something's informed by what came before this.
• 3:10:17
  Wonderful and I think also to be fair to I mean, I think season
• 3:10:20
  21 really affected by season 20, which I think he's gorgeous.
• 3:10:26
  He's actually a very very thoughtful quite soft and quite
• 3:10:31
  meditative seeds and he doesn't have that actually means it
• 3:10:36
  takes a while for that through. No way that Andres Army just
• 3:10:40
  hate Season 22 almost immediately get that sort of.
• 3:10:44
  Cynical brutality but not done as well.
• 3:10:47
  But I think earthshock. It doesn't damage Doctor Who
• 3:10:50
  quite as quickly as it might mind you if we had had the
• 3:10:52
  direct story at the end of 20. We probably would have felt
• 3:10:56
  Victory I think as a but now it's your choice of Doctor Who
• 3:10:59
  story? Oh, yeah.
• 3:11:00
  Okay. Well, I suppose there's only two
• 3:11:02
  left isn't there. You've got shoulder and you've
• 3:11:05
  got time flight from extreme. Yes.
• 3:11:08
  What a choice as as the story that I do actually want to try
• 3:11:13
  and check it is time flight. because there were things about
• 3:11:19
  it which I mean, okay, I'm gonna give you my my three reasons and
• 3:11:26
  I'm aware that time Fighters are controversial choice, but I love
• 3:11:31
  Captain step. More than I can possibly I think
• 3:11:36
  it's maybe one of my favorite ever Doctor Who characters?
• 3:11:40
  And their their reasons for this and it's because you're
• 3:11:44
  watching. in kind of fast forward this this character who
• 3:11:50
  moves from being this incredibly I rolling dismissive character
• 3:11:57
  to the doctor and His World in German who absolutely is a love
• 3:12:01
  with it. Over the course of four
• 3:12:04
  episodes. I mean, it's it's a muted
• 3:12:07
  Eastern who is a terrific actor. Anyway, I mean, it's very
• 3:12:10
  conscious. I mean, it's it's like watching
• 3:12:12
  someone just born For in romantic love with the doctor
• 3:12:17
  having just thought he was enough.
• 3:12:19
  And it's so cleverly as well that and it's so incredibly well
• 3:12:23
  before. That it's one of the most I find
• 3:12:27
  humorously touching things. I know certainly in ages.
• 3:12:31
  I just think it's I think it's one of the one of the great
• 3:12:35
  under the performance is in October because it's in the
• 3:12:38
  story, which is usually just dismissed so easily.
• 3:12:41
  I love Captain stepping. Greatly March.
• 3:12:44
  I'm so going to want to talk up. What gets a lot of attack?
• 3:12:51
  And I think with good reasons, but it I think again is to do
• 3:12:54
  with a complex of the season. I think that that opening
• 3:12:58
  TARDIS. Where they discuss the death of
• 3:13:00
  Madrid which is usually mocked horribly.
• 3:13:03
  I think he's extraordinary good. I think he is awkward and
• 3:13:09
  embarrassed and it's like every week either being too as like
• 3:13:15
  the stuff that I had both my parents where people just stand
• 3:13:18
  around and they try and be a bit awkward and they say it's like
• 3:13:22
  Should get it like the expression and they and it's
• 3:13:25
  because people can't quite deal with it and it feels like so
• 3:13:28
  much more of an honest emotional reaction and it works in part
• 3:13:32
  because as this entire season has been doing it keeps on
• 3:13:36
  threading through the ideas stories breed into each other.
• 3:13:40
  Sometimes it feels like you don't really know why they're
• 3:13:42
  doing that but you know four things they breeds into Kinder
• 3:13:46
  for know very good reason except to write out Nissa and you've
• 3:13:50
  got the visitation opening with a bit from people discussing
• 3:13:53
  what it was like to have the mara.
• 3:13:56
  Then you've got you know earthshock, you know the back or
• 3:13:58
  people and all of these things just keep on sort of just coming
• 3:14:01
  about and then suddenly bites. That there is a reason that
• 3:14:05
  actually that this sort of idea of thinking the story means
• 3:14:09
  ultimately this actually gonna be a payoff to pay off is gonna
• 3:14:12
  be one point you stand around and you're doing a checklist of
• 3:14:16
  the end of Earth the way that you work for the visitation and
• 3:14:19
  everything, but this time actually cyber Creek dispersed
• 3:14:22
  people who turned to their own time teagan's very angry about
• 3:14:25
  that with good reasons. It feels totally dispassionate
• 3:14:28
  immediately tries to sort of sense of saying please don't be
• 3:14:31
  emotional. It's not just a matter of just
• 3:14:34
  clearing up stuff that I would get rid of North shock it.
• 3:14:38
  In some ways that time fight has that sort of fear of just
• 3:14:41
  needing to plunge forward and that it keeps mocking you with
• 3:14:44
  it the fact that you've got agric in episode 2.
• 3:14:49
  Is really hurtful. My sister hopes you won't mind
• 3:14:52
  the same as much as a young like Doctor Who a bit more than I did
• 3:14:56
  younger. Then she grew up and became far
• 3:14:59
  more intelligently and got a doctorate but she found the
• 3:15:07
  appearance of adric in episode 2 incredibly cruel she cried again
• 3:15:11
  because she said he's back and he needs to be taken away and
• 3:15:15
  it's the fact that the things she found most of Was the fact
• 3:15:18
  that as they walk through the illusion so they have to go on
• 3:15:22
  and we have to move past. This moment of grief.
• 3:15:25
  Is that as they walk through he screams with pain and she
• 3:15:28
  thought that was really nice and I think it was a sort of strange
• 3:15:32
  deliberate Echo. I'm not saying that it's saves
• 3:15:35
  the story. I do think though that I find
• 3:15:38
  always tricky about people attacking I always seems to be
• 3:15:41
  in echo to earth shock just where I think that's the one
• 3:15:44
  area where he works well, the fact that actually doing it with
• 3:15:48
  the one of the first things that you do after Andrew it goes is
• 3:15:53
  you you immediately present yourself with the master.
• 3:15:58
  Who doesn't even bother to ask where it is?
• 3:16:00
  I mean no because you don't and you're suddenly aware also,
• 3:16:04
  because he's also referenced in time.
• 3:16:07
  I mean, they actually have the the melkor appearing what came
• 3:16:12
  from it killed my father who looks just like the guy who's
• 3:16:16
  upstairs in that room. Who so you've got this strange
• 3:16:20
  welcome with Nissan of their being a sense of grief.
• 3:16:24
  And then what they do we take him is that they take her back
• 3:16:28
  to where she wants to go over the whole thing and they just
• 3:16:30
  fuck off it. I think that's really really
• 3:16:39
  good time tonight does some really I think episode 3 is very
• 3:16:42
  very dull. I think it's all so full of
• 3:16:46
  ideas. I mean, I think it's a very
• 3:16:49
  Again, not it's not necessary complement.
• 3:16:51
  It's a very very new series. I did say let's do Kong and
• 3:16:54
  let's do that big thing and actually some of those overly
• 3:16:57
  shots in part one and the trailers it looks so dynamic.
• 3:17:01
  I'm with the snow on the ground. It looks beautiful.
• 3:17:04
  And it's it's I think I think one of the reasons that I
• 3:17:09
  genuinely do love time is that it's not unlike something in the
• 3:17:12
  modern day like flux. Where you have to Champion it
• 3:17:15
  because it exists and because in spite of all the problems they
• 3:17:20
  made it anyway, and the fact that time fight is able to be
• 3:17:23
  this thing where they're showing off Concord and yet also you've
• 3:17:28
  got the plasma tons and and this sort of as Blackadder would say
• 3:17:32
  sort of unconvincing grassy knoll.
• 3:17:35
  And yet they made it and it can be both things at once that I
• 3:17:38
  just really cherish it. I mean I and I think that
• 3:17:41
  there's a witch I think Peter Grimm wages are far far better
• 3:17:45
  right to people giving credit. I think motion on digits and
• 3:17:47
  astonished think planets are really interesting script and
• 3:17:51
  time fight is as well. But it also feels a little bit
• 3:17:54
  like he's just trying to work out what to do and he's being
• 3:17:57
  crushed a bit by the TV production but time for has so
• 3:18:01
  much more going on to it and say for to Doomsday or the
• 3:18:05
  visitation. I think it's actually a very
• 3:18:07
  very worthy thing and I'm glad it's there.
• 3:18:11
  I'm really glad I think it's people often so that they would
• 3:18:13
  be really much happier. The season ended with the shot.
• 3:18:16
  We need time like we really do. I I think it actually balance
• 3:18:21
  the season really, well, it gives us a sense and and I and I
• 3:18:26
  want it to go in Well, I think the comments Rob I'm not
• 3:18:31
  necessarily going to fly in the face of what you said.
• 3:18:35
  But let's let's go. Let's see what people have got
• 3:18:38
  to say. James Lark says thankfully
• 3:18:42
  season 19 ends on a high with a story that does what doctor who
• 3:18:46
  does best a clever story Chris dialogue a superb ensemble cast
• 3:18:50
  and some of the best special effects.
• 3:18:53
  I'm joking. Of course time flight is
• 3:18:55
  unforgivably crap in every single aspect.
• 3:18:59
  Pizza always says there is a specific pit in the seventh hail
• 3:19:03
  for anyone who says that time fly is any good.
• 3:19:05
  Oh, sorry Rob and look. Here's the problem.
• 3:19:08
  It's not the plasma tons. Everthing Etc.
• 3:19:11
  It's it's why does the master have to dress up?
• 3:19:15
  It makes no sense. Who is he hiding from?
• 3:19:18
  Why just why baby? Let's be proud audience.
• 3:19:22
  He does realize his hiding from the audience doesn't doesn't he
• 3:19:25
  actually not. Okay.
• 3:19:28
  All right delivery David Gillespie practice frankly utter
• 3:19:32
  crap, but it's so bad full of the most incredibly awful
• 3:19:36
  creative choices that it's all so fun.
• 3:19:38
  Give me a couple of GNC's and I'll gladly oh, come on you
• 3:19:42
  David Jason Thompson OT. The money is run out.
• 3:19:46
  I do love this one for reasons. I can't put my finger on but it
• 3:19:49
  looks so cheap and crap doesn't it?
• 3:19:51
  And the resolution is the doctor and the master swapping bits at
• 3:19:54
  the hardest. It's like when you used to trade
• 3:19:56
  like trading cards from one to another Stadium I was like
• 3:20:06
  Awesome. Yeah, that's the doctor doing
• 3:20:10
  some clever switch flicking to that the Masters start us away.
• 3:20:13
  Unsatisfied to say the least, but I can't bring myself to pin
• 3:20:17
  it. The orange Michael said this was
• 3:20:19
  the first I can't believe this whole big orange Michael.
• 3:20:22
  This was the first Doctor Who he saw so he said I'm sentimental
• 3:20:26
  about it having so little to compare to it.
• 3:20:29
  I was hooked. Which is great.
• 3:20:31
  It's a time fly hooked someone in sing it now.
• 3:20:33
  It looks cheap though. There are some decent ideas in
• 3:20:36
  the script. I reluctantly say binit a young
• 3:20:39
  who fan might sorry my young who fan self is disappointed in me.
• 3:20:43
  We've all got an idea in our head what Big Orange Michael
• 3:20:46
  looks like, right? Yeah.
• 3:20:47
  I've seen the time. Well, you know, he's size and
• 3:20:51
  color at least a steaming pile of stank nuggets.
• 3:20:59
  Stacking nuggets. Okay.
• 3:21:00
  No, Captain Stanley's instant love and respect for the doctor
• 3:21:04
  always makes me laugh and smile so bad.
• 3:21:07
  It's good that you might as part one is really good.
• 3:21:10
  I love seeing the Tardis screw in a modern day setting
• 3:21:12
  unfortunately goes pear shaped in the rest is terrible.
• 3:21:15
  The kanku called crew are Splendid chaps though Andy
• 3:21:19
  Parkinson a great Colonel of an idea, but they shouldn't have
• 3:21:21
  realized they could have never pulled it off the master dresses
• 3:21:24
  up for no discernible reason. The plasma sons are shit.
• 3:21:27
  And the whole thing collapses under the weight bid it all done
• 3:21:31
  said needed a better direction or money spent on it.
• 3:21:33
  Great cast. Not sure why the Master's
• 3:21:35
  disguise on his own though a bit of a missed opportunity Jolla
• 3:21:40
  Wallen. I came with very low
• 3:21:41
  expectations. Thanks to his reputation.
• 3:21:43
  It was hilarious entertainingly awful and utter train wreck bad
• 3:21:48
  decisions Galore. I thought it was keeping it or
• 3:21:50
  not. Tom Newsome said yay for
• 3:21:53
  Heathrow and conquered name for Plasma on Khalid the master and
• 3:21:57
  doctor seems feel like they're going for a season.
• 3:21:59
  Hurt way, but are so cheap and flooding comparison to the
• 3:22:02
  doctor. Deliberately leave Tegan at the
• 3:22:04
  end or win oddly compelling or the obvious problems are here,
• 3:22:08
  but it's watchable in the way chunks of Davidson Isn't So
• 3:22:11
  greatness of story Davidson is still trying the scenes with the
• 3:22:15
  doctor on Concord in episode 1. I'll really good and the way the
• 3:22:18
  crew except but not without questioning.
• 3:22:20
  The situation is really interesting and quite well
• 3:22:23
  observed not quite as I don't mind a non-reaction to actually
• 3:22:27
  accept as much as everyone else who is the main character of
• 3:22:29
  this season Teigen. So for the finale, the most
• 3:22:33
  emotional have is rightly given to her decision together how out
• 3:22:36
  of that I admire the crazy ambition, but this ultimately
• 3:22:39
  has to go down as a failure. They're a little roundels works
• 3:22:42
  better. Works better in episode today
• 3:22:45
  episode 4 is where you lose the will to live sadly.
• 3:22:49
  It's not even laugh at me bad. It's just Bleak or spice is
• 3:22:53
  time. Shy more like such a
• 3:22:55
  disappointing and no redeeming features.
• 3:22:59
  Oh. Johanna sorry Paul Smith says
• 3:23:10
  time shite more like such a disappointing end.
• 3:23:12
  No redeeming features at all. And finally Spencer Carter says
• 3:23:18
  time flight doesn't get the credit it warrants.
• 3:23:20
  Yes sets are effective. Sorry.
• 3:23:22
  Yes sets and effects are Dreadful, but it's a clever
• 3:23:26
  little story and this is the clinch drum roll.
• 3:23:29
  I prefer it to kinder. Well, we have we have all sorts
• 3:23:35
  out there. Nathan time flight yeah.
• 3:23:38
  Oh no. What oh night.
• 3:23:44
  It's terrible. But scoby has a very beautiful
• 3:23:49
  mustache and he's quite handsome.
• 3:23:52
  And and I I kind of like that scene where they're talking
• 3:23:58
  about having a layover in Jakarta or something.
• 3:24:01
  That's wonderful absolutely worth the price of the way.
• 3:24:09
  She says restaurant. She goes what the captain wants
• 3:24:12
  us to try out that new Indonesian restaurant.
• 3:24:14
  It's a very old right here like that the same way Pate is
• 3:24:24
  desperately trying not to laugh and failing.
• 3:24:27
  He's standing next time and they don't take it again.
• 3:24:35
  I don't go again. He is wonderful.
• 3:24:39
  It's so great. I have this feeling That paid
• 3:24:43
  and Janet and Sarah used to make fun of Ailey like on the like
• 3:24:49
  during the production and the my evidence my conclusive evidence
• 3:24:54
  for that is that Pete does an absolutely perfect alien
• 3:24:58
  personation for the Castro valve ya book.
• 3:25:02
  It's unbelievable. You would swear it was only so
• 3:25:05
  he's clearly mastered doing anally and that's his bit.
• 3:25:09
  And so here he's standing next to only being absolutely
• 3:25:13
  marvelous party show. He's wonderful.
• 3:25:18
  He's absolutely just like I mentioned doing that but being
• 3:25:21
  slightly embarrassed by it would have been Dreadful but he's
• 3:25:24
  super into it and Pete's can't stop himself from laughing.
• 3:25:28
  I just think that it's wonderful.
• 3:25:29
  Look. I also think the beginning is
• 3:25:31
  amazing. I think all of that location
• 3:25:33
  stuff and being in the real world is great.
• 3:25:35
  It's a massive disappointment, but that air traffic control he
• 3:25:40
  throw his so Like sheet into functioning compared to for
• 3:25:45
  instance what we had a gap week in in the faceless ones, which
• 3:25:49
  also had one defense in there. So it was Superior as well for
• 3:25:53
  that reason alone. But like it's Television, right
• 3:25:59
  and and those scenes are absolutely embarrassing, you
• 3:26:06
  know, they're unblocked all that set is so poor back in 1982 with
• 3:26:11
  oddly ran out of money. I don't know why it doesn't
• 3:26:14
  occur to anyone to just fucking go out outside.
• 3:26:16
  I know that that costs more but like it looks like it just looks
• 3:26:21
  like the money's run out. I know I don't care and it
• 3:26:24
  should someone should have predicted that that was going to
• 3:26:27
  be a problem. I think and like that the court
• 3:26:33
  it's just the way he like like this like all of the stuff early
• 3:26:39
  on you've got a Concorde you've got An airport all of that stuff
• 3:26:43
  is really great and really fun and it is always funny and fun
• 3:26:48
  seeing the doctor like for the first time we get to see this
• 3:26:51
  doctor is not like contemporary Earth interacting with just out
• 3:26:56
  of normal people and stuff and it's one talking about you
• 3:26:58
  really good. Yeah.
• 3:27:00
  Yeah, all of that's great. But um, but she was the the
• 3:27:06
  Jurassic thing is so miserable and one like the plasma tons
• 3:27:13
  like I like You know what? I mean?
• 3:27:18
  Like I just don't know who designed the plasma Tom's
• 3:27:21
  probably someone who doesn't need a lot of fiber because you
• 3:27:25
  know, they would have known what they look like like it's so it's
• 3:27:30
  such a just a bafflingly bad thing.
• 3:27:32
  And then Sarah Sutton gets to be the second companion in Doctor
• 3:27:35
  Who history who kind of goes. Oh, they're giving my character
• 3:27:38
  special depth in this story because they have power.
• 3:27:43
  Do you know what I mean? He's like in the absence of
• 3:27:46
  anything about her as a person that we could get that is an
• 3:27:51
  identifiable kind of characteristic.
• 3:27:53
  You know, that's what we do. We give her psychic powers just
• 3:27:56
  like we gave Susan in the sensor rights for pretty much the same
• 3:28:00
  reasons and so I don't know like you know if there are very few
• 3:28:08
  things in Doctor Who that have really no redeeming beaches and
• 3:28:14
  I always think that that's a ludicrous statement to say that
• 3:28:17
  this story has no redeeming features.
• 3:28:21
  How he wants to go inside, um, the the story has no redeeming
• 3:28:25
  features. I think that's very rarely the
• 3:28:27
  case. And this is no exception.
• 3:28:31
  I think it has redeeming features are also the things
• 3:28:33
  that I like about it. But you know, if you're gonna
• 3:28:36
  eat anything into the bin it's going to be something with
• 3:28:38
  redeeming features and so it can go to I think Hey, I'm going to
• 3:28:43
  go next Joe. You said to me earlier that if I
• 3:28:46
  ditch Black Orchid and I keep time flight then we're through I
• 3:28:51
  did I think you better start writing the divorce papers.
• 3:28:54
  Oh, well, it's been a good Rob. It's been a good run.
• 3:28:57
  It's been fun. We've had our time but it's all
• 3:29:00
  I really enjoyed talking. Like, I don't know why but I
• 3:29:04
  enjoy time flight is it because this was pre-video days for me.
• 3:29:09
  So I had it on audio so I could kind of recreate the images in
• 3:29:12
  my own head. Maybe you know what I think it's
• 3:29:16
  got a lot going for it. Yes, obviously, there are a lot
• 3:29:19
  of issues but I think I mean it was said early there were a lot
• 3:29:22
  of ideas in here. I think it's got on a lot more
• 3:29:25
  thoughts and depth than people realized.
• 3:29:27
  Yes. Some of the realization of it is
• 3:29:29
  fucking a polling. I mean we talked about the third
• 3:29:32
  monsters a minute ago, all the impacted stalls.
• 3:29:34
  We also have the fairy washing up Liquid over the top of the
• 3:29:38
  impacted stalls, which really doesn't help sell them as an
• 3:29:41
  image, but do you know what I'm Going to I'm gonna walk three
• 3:29:44
  reasons why I like it. First one is Concord.
• 3:29:47
  Do you know what back in 8182 this was a big coup for jnt to
• 3:29:52
  get to film with Concord Concord was constantly in the news.
• 3:29:55
  It was headlines stuff. What Concord was doing where it
• 3:29:58
  was going? It's it's kind of like the
• 3:30:00
  equivalence Again Taylor Swift on the show.
• 3:30:02
  Now, it was big bloody news people were interested in
• 3:30:06
  Concord. So the fact it's on Doctor Who
• 3:30:08
  is you know is a big draw and you're right for episode one for
• 3:30:12
  the first 17 minutes. I check my time for the first 17
• 3:30:15
  minutes. It looks fabulous.
• 3:30:16
  He got all that outdoor filming. You've got the stuff in the
• 3:30:20
  cockpit you've got as you said earlier rightly the the runway
• 3:30:24
  covered with snow. It looks lovely.
• 3:30:26
  Admittedly a minute 17. It's suddenly takes a great big
• 3:30:30
  nosedive. But you know what, they are
• 3:30:32
  focusing on Concord. And then again, we get Concord
• 3:30:35
  and episode four Concord is kind of the star of episode 4 Nathan.
• 3:30:40
  You're absolutely right. Unfortunately all we see is a
• 3:30:42
  very bad prop wheel we get some terrible model shots in the
• 3:30:47
  distance. Well, or we get it super imposed
• 3:30:49
  over the prehistoric Earth, it looks terrible, but we're still
• 3:30:52
  banging on this is Concord and then we go back to Heathrow for
• 3:30:55
  some more location filming. So I think it gives the story a
• 3:30:59
  distinctive fail. So that's one reason.
• 3:31:01
  I'm going to put it through the second one is unlike what
• 3:31:04
  they're doing with the master. Now, we're seeing them the
• 3:31:06
  Master's desperation we've gone from all the hurt we plots where
• 3:31:09
  well the Master's just aligning himself with an alien and trying
• 3:31:12
  to take over the Earth or another planet.
• 3:31:15
  We started to see now the master is being on the back 40.
• 3:31:19
  He's on the back foot here. He's created the time Corridor
• 3:31:22
  so that he can try to get some help because he stuck on
• 3:31:25
  prehistoric Earth is the same that we'll see again in plants
• 3:31:28
  of fire where he's on the back foot because he's already strong
• 3:31:31
  and we'll see it in survival when he's on the cheats Planet.
• 3:31:34
  It's this raccoon theme, but this is the first time we get it
• 3:31:37
  that he's on you know, he's already been defeated to a big
• 3:31:40
  green. He's desperately trying to find
• 3:31:42
  his way out of there and that makes it quite an interesting
• 3:31:44
  story. There's a second plot here as
• 3:31:47
  well because the seraphim of crushed or maybe they flew into
• 3:31:50
  the time Corridor. It's not very well explained but
• 3:31:53
  the Masters trying to take control of them and I like that
• 3:31:55
  fight between the good and the evil and yes, he's Master is
• 3:31:59
  dressed up as Scarlet to try and control the side of the
• 3:32:02
  xylophone that he's trying to appeal to its just about there
• 3:32:06
  in the dialogue if you really listen and you want to draw some
• 3:32:09
  parallels it is just about that. It's not very well drawn.
• 3:32:13
  I'm not gonna defend that but you know, there's enough there
• 3:32:16
  to make it going. I love the fact that the Masters
• 3:32:18
  just now starting to merge them. We see those little shrunken
• 3:32:21
  seraphine in in the two in the Crypt.
• 3:32:24
  I think this really good stuff. So I like muster in it.
• 3:32:29
  I like what he's doing. I'm stretching Nathan.
• 3:32:31
  I'm stretching and I think there are lots of little moments in
• 3:32:35
  here. Really enjoy.
• 3:32:36
  I like the doctor reading the cricket scores and being totally
• 3:32:39
  nonplussed when the security guards try to NAB him in in
• 3:32:42
  Heathrow, you mentioned earlier Rob about the reappearance of
• 3:32:46
  adrik, you know, we just saw adrik die in prehistoric times.
• 3:32:50
  This is on prehistoric Earth. So, you know, there's a good
• 3:32:52
  time. This could actually be accurate
• 3:32:54
  again clearly. It's not and clearly he's having
• 3:32:57
  a ball here. He's absolutely relishing it.
• 3:33:00
  He doesn't I'm not sure if he's chuckling in character or he's
• 3:33:04
  just enjoying himself when he goes over to the targets and
• 3:33:06
  kisses. It's he's just he's really
• 3:33:09
  enjoying himself and I think I enjoy what he's doing with that.
• 3:33:12
  You got Nigel stockers hater who's a good character.
• 3:33:15
  We've talked about Captain Stapley and all the boys that
• 3:33:18
  marvelous on my favorite moments of all if you don't put it
• 3:33:21
  through just this you've got no soul.
• 3:33:22
  We're on a terrible press or Earth set and antique and tries
• 3:33:26
  to do her best air. That sucks at the end of episode
• 3:33:29
  four to more also apply. It's so ridiculous.
• 3:33:35
  I love it. Is there anything more talk to
• 3:33:38
  her than that? Most ridiculous moment I've ever
• 3:33:42
  seen a fucking lover. So I am putting time flight
• 3:33:45
  through. Joe you deciding vote the wife
• 3:33:51
  probably is I love life for possibly to an almost absurd
• 3:33:56
  degree. So I tried desperately hard to
• 3:33:59
  hate this as much as he does. And I've just couldn't do it.
• 3:34:03
  But I really found this fun to watch and I agree with you.
• 3:34:09
  They filled every single point as some of the most inept
• 3:34:13
  television that's ever been broadcast outside of the space
• 3:34:16
  1999 season two, but wow said it skips along and it's got I love
• 3:34:24
  all of the three gay Stuarts and caps in I mean, they're just
• 3:34:29
  what's the fellas name? The actor went on to EastEnders
• 3:34:34
  Michael Cashman. He's beautiful.
• 3:34:38
  Yeah, and I and I mean the thing that makes me laugh the most is
• 3:34:42
  the blocking there's so many scenes of people love shot all
• 3:34:47
  standing in a line. Just waiting to play their
• 3:34:49
  lives. Oh who's next?
• 3:34:50
  Okay Tegan this up the doctor the plasma tons of terrible
• 3:34:54
  Angela Clifford. I mean who wouldn't want to go
• 3:34:58
  off? Oh, hello Roger.
• 3:35:02
  Oh, yeah. It's so rude the cash the Casual
• 3:35:05
  racism with Khalid. I mean, it's just awful is that
• 3:35:09
  the ending the most anticlimactic ending to a
• 3:35:12
  doctor's at the end of the season, you know, ask what is my
• 3:35:17
  meccano for yours? Oh, it's just awful on every
• 3:35:20
  level. I actually adored every single
• 3:35:22
  second. I don't know why it's just got
• 3:35:24
  some kind of life to it. I don't know if it's the
• 3:35:28
  occasionally Pepe dialogue. I don't know if it's just
• 3:35:31
  because I think grimwig gets a lot of the characters right and
• 3:35:34
  no one's mentioned Nigel stock having a whale of a time as
• 3:35:37
  that. Professor prick that I call him
• 3:35:40
  because he's just there sort of complicate the plot and then die
• 3:35:44
  isn't he but I mean that's the the best is Nicholas be played
• 3:35:49
  ice fabulous actor. He's doing slummy in this song
• 3:35:52
  no idea. No, I I think it is absolutely
• 3:35:55
  terrible and bizarrely enjoyed every second of it.
• 3:35:59
  So let's put it through around too. popular and can I just say
• 3:36:05
  the one thing that I mentioned earlier is that I didn't tune
• 3:36:09
  into Ark of Infinity Episode 1 the following year on the
• 3:36:13
  strength of this. So Furious about Teagan being
• 3:36:18
  left behind he throw I was so angry.
• 3:36:21
  So he lost he lost adrik the you know, the previous story and now
• 3:36:26
  Teagan who I really care about now, she's off as well.
• 3:36:31
  And I was absolutely Furious. And in fact, when I first met
• 3:36:35
  Pete Lambert a friend of the podcast Pete Lambert, I
• 3:36:38
  discovered that he had had exactly the same experience.
• 3:36:42
  Yeah, you and I both love soap operas.
• 3:36:45
  So surely one of those redeeming features is that perfect ending
• 3:36:48
  where I thought you would go with the doctor.
• 3:36:50
  She looked straight at the camera tears are so did I had no
• 3:36:56
  idea it's like a wonderful Crossroads Cliffhanger, isn't it
• 3:37:02
  at the end of yeah, that's a good moment.
• 3:37:04
  But I was Furious like that's taken.
• 3:37:07
  She's actually good and we've got Nisa who's kind of boring
• 3:37:11
  and usually asleep in any given story.
• 3:37:15
  You know, I was like I couldn't believe it could not believe it.
• 3:37:19
  Right, we're down to our last story.
• 3:37:21
  How did Kindergarten last? Joke, you want to take you want
• 3:37:26
  me to take it? I think we should hand.
• 3:37:28
  It's one of our guests. That's a good that's a smart
• 3:37:30
  story and these are very small guests.
• 3:37:32
  Absolutely. It was to take it.
• 3:37:36
  Rob okay. I don't know I mean I met
• 3:37:48
  Christopher Bailey. I mean, I don't know whether You
• 3:37:51
  all know this. I mean, there's the the DVD
• 3:37:54
  extra and I was talking about Kingdom and snake dance because
• 3:38:01
  you know me in these big rooms and people just Milling around.
• 3:38:04
  I don't know they were and I was saying what I thought that kind
• 3:38:07
  of this old guy got something means did you actually mean any
• 3:38:12
  of that? And I said, yeah, I I honestly I
• 3:38:15
  wouldn't be a right. He said I'm Chris Bailey and he
• 3:38:21
  said I gave up right because of writers and and they they sort
• 3:38:33
  of just the moment and and they filmed us on a sofa just
• 3:38:36
  informed you just I honestly think that can do is it's the
• 3:38:43
  only time I've ever been scared by doctor.
• 3:38:46
  Um because at the right age to be it's the moment in episode
• 3:38:51
  two, I think where Sanders has given the books of Jannah by
• 3:38:55
  karuna. And he opens it up and he's face
• 3:38:59
  gets red and she just smiles and I didn't know what the hell that
• 3:39:02
  meant. And it was the only time I've
• 3:39:04
  ever, you know, I was previous to kinder I had watched it
• 3:39:08
  because I was too scared of the idea, but that was for me.
• 3:39:11
  Something unknowable and terrible and I remember the end
• 3:39:15
  of episode two when you know, they opened the box and there is
• 3:39:20
  Hughes one of the best hangers ever and then it isn't even let
• 3:39:24
  down because yes, it's only a snake in the Box actually.
• 3:39:28
  He's something in there and it changes them and it that's what
• 3:39:32
  I think Kendra is so good at he keeps on sort of providing all
• 3:39:36
  these sort of traditional scares and big moments which are
• 3:39:40
  misdirections for something which ends up being sought and
• 3:39:43
  clever down the line. You know, you were think when
• 3:39:47
  you first go into it, this is a story about where all these
• 3:39:50
  missing people And then they kind of just get forgotten
• 3:39:53
  because actually where they are is important because they've
• 3:39:56
  joined the tribal something. And what's actually important is
• 3:40:00
  it's everything behind it is is the philosophy it's people being
• 3:40:04
  driven out of their mind and finding themselves again.
• 3:40:07
  And I was I think I was I think my 12th birthday coincided with
• 3:40:12
  one of the episode and I didn't understand it very well, but I
• 3:40:15
  was mesmerized by it and the year they just snake dance,
• 3:40:18
  which is probably my favorite story of Doctor Who anyway?
• 3:40:22
  Which I think is a better piece of TV.
• 3:40:24
  I think Kingdra is where the genius?
• 3:40:28
  When I kind of first like dance because I just I love funeral
• 3:40:30
  coming to Direction and I and I think it does better with
• 3:40:34
  Teagan. I think what we think get with
• 3:40:36
  so I forget Is he taking his barely in it action?
• 3:40:40
  She spends episode three of just like this is a sleeping Parts
• 3:40:43
  two three as well, which is strange and it doesn't use the
• 3:40:49
  companions very well as a result.
• 3:40:50
  It's really only acts story but he's really good in it as well.
• 3:40:54
  This is maybe Alex best story of the season.
• 3:40:57
  Including Earth shock. I think that he acts well with
• 3:41:01
  Simon Rouse and really with Richard told in spite of stories
• 3:41:04
  about Matthew Waterhouse. I think actually There's A
• 3:41:09
  really lovely rapport with them and I think that You know, it's
• 3:41:13
  I mean Kinder shouldn't work. You can tell that it's the work
• 3:41:18
  of someone like so much else. This is where Terence doubling
• 3:41:21
  with Eric say with that Peter grimmway to they're not really
• 3:41:24
  quite sure how to write TV properly yet.
• 3:41:27
  But Kinder is just so Mesmerizing the Weird and
• 3:41:32
  different and clever and it's about stuff.
• 3:41:35
  You isn't simple to explain Simon rowell's. my wife was a
• 3:41:41
  drama school with and you know would Casey pop up on the
• 3:41:46
  answering machine here and I've always had that really he's one
• 3:41:50
  of the best ever guest performance is in Doctor Who and
• 3:41:54
  it's from a young actor who doesn't care about Doctor Who
• 3:41:57
  he's just gonna go out there and do the best thing he possibly
• 3:41:59
  can and it's it's one of the best most dangerous performance
• 3:42:03
  in dribble seen its terrified. I just find that whenever I go
• 3:42:07
  back to kind I find more and more to discover in it.
• 3:42:10
  I find it funny and I remember it being I find it more scary
• 3:42:14
  and I find it more thoughtful and I find that.
• 3:42:17
  What you get from it and it's so rare with doctor.
• 3:42:20
  It's one of those stories where you just think there's actually
• 3:42:23
  an entire world in this episode. So bigger than the series
• 3:42:25
  itself. I think it is endlessly
• 3:42:28
  watchable and industry discussable, but I'm not going
• 3:42:31
  to discuss it any more absolved. Let's go to the comments David
• 3:42:39
  Gillespie presses Kinder go to see what you did there.
• 3:42:42
  David will be a fair few of these.
• 3:42:44
  Yeah, but once the artificial nature of the Jungle in the
• 3:42:47
  studio at the atmosphere, but with an incredible Gas cast.
• 3:42:50
  Let's take a moment to applaud the incredible Mary Morris who
• 3:42:53
  plays her pods Perfection Rod. Are you an idiot?
• 3:42:57
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 3:42:59
  Danielle Noyes says superb I thoroughly grown up story full
• 3:43:03
  of ideas and imagery that fit either Christian or Buddhist
• 3:43:06
  perspective great cast to accept possibly Adrian Mills it
• 3:43:12
  contributed to my life long phobia of snakes Chuck koi says
• 3:43:16
  a cracking story about the awful effects of fear.
• 3:43:18
  Todd is afraid of the looming Specter of the crumbling Empire
• 3:43:21
  Hindu on Sundays are afraid of the foreigners.
• 3:43:24
  They imposed himself on adrik is afraid of being disliked by all
• 3:43:27
  the gas characters and the doctor is constantly afraid of
• 3:43:30
  not knowing all the answers the important fear here belongs to
• 3:43:33
  Teagan who finds herself trapped in a cruel reflection of her.
• 3:43:37
  A new living situation to aloof smarter people playing chess and
• 3:43:41
  the young man who chastises her and makes her feel small.
• 3:43:44
  Yes or Darren lit roundels, excellent moments and a strong
• 3:43:49
  cast mostly but I can't say I actually enjoy it shows that
• 3:43:53
  Davison shines. We're not paired with his actual
• 3:43:55
  companions. Yes, Jason Thompson says, I'm
• 3:43:58
  interesting unusual tale hamstrung by production would
• 3:44:02
  have benefited hugely from shooting the jungle in a film
• 3:44:05
  studio having those Ludacris plastic box gun redesigned and
• 3:44:09
  from someone realizing that if the mara has to be trapped in a
• 3:44:12
  circle of mirrors, maybe the snake shouldn't how our over the
• 3:44:15
  circle and so could easily Escape.
• 3:44:17
  Oh don't treat Jason hadn't Trey his famous for it.
• 3:44:21
  Dan all kinds of superb despite not having a Scooby-Doo what's
• 3:44:25
  going on? Mysterious and surreal with
• 3:44:28
  great performance is for out. Just wish we could have had the
• 3:44:31
  jungle set from the Tom Baker career after this one feels like
• 3:44:33
  a garden center for you cite nearest.
• 3:44:37
  And Dave, I will so good. I'm nuisance as a superb script
• 3:44:41
  with a great director of great actors.
• 3:44:43
  It's like a Sci-Fi play for today, but it also works as a
• 3:44:46
  doctor who Adventure without the subtexts Andy Parkinson.
• 3:44:49
  The first cracker of the season was some Estella performance is
• 3:44:52
  from the guest cast and Brilliant dialogue.
• 3:44:54
  Also Teigen is super creepy under position Peter old says
• 3:44:58
  until I was 35. I thought it was silly then I
• 3:45:01
  grew up. It's actually a really deep and
• 3:45:03
  clever story. Simon Ross is brilliant just
• 3:45:05
  brilliant as a totally unhinged psychotically loner amazing how
• 3:45:10
  fan opinions change isn't it Michael storm highlight the
• 3:45:14
  season at clever and dark script.
• 3:45:16
  There were a few problems with the realization the Kinder a
• 3:45:19
  little too shower gel adverti and for the snake.
• 3:45:23
  Martin says it's creeping has some smashing visuals that dark
• 3:45:26
  domain the mara is a brilliant badly love the Cliffhangers and
• 3:45:30
  the sexual Chemistry Between Davidson and their issues is
• 3:45:33
  unparalleled in Doctor Who I Am Banks superb story that goes
• 3:45:37
  into some dark places with Teagan with adric and the doctor
• 3:45:40
  struggling with an unhinged guest cars the colonial touches
• 3:45:43
  on subtle. But highlight the difference is
• 3:45:45
  between the two cultures. So the audience can feel in some
• 3:45:48
  Blanks Big Orange. Michael says a Gemma gets better
• 3:45:51
  as I get older the Cliffhanger to episode one is one of the
• 3:45:54
  best in the camera. This is Doctor Who trying
• 3:45:56
  something different and it works keep it.
• 3:45:59
  All smile a classic such a confidence script and look Simon
• 3:46:03
  Rouses hindle produces. One of the great guest star
• 3:46:05
  performances in the whole of who knows uses a companion.
• 3:46:08
  We never had. I don't even mind the snake and
• 3:46:11
  finally Tom. Turlo.
• 3:46:13
  I will bring myself to say this endure is not a work of Genius.
• 3:46:17
  It's just shed. So as Tom turbo so I can provide
• 3:46:21
  you with his email address if you want to send.
• 3:46:26
  I I didn't meet someone recently.
• 3:46:28
  I was at the I won't say he is because it's not fair.
• 3:46:31
  I mean the the screening in Hammersmith and his army met
• 3:46:37
  someone who the only Doctor Who DVDs right so we had but he
• 3:46:51
  takes all sorts it does. Absolutely.
• 3:46:57
  Yeah, but you know, it was very unpopular time.
• 3:47:00
  So yeah, so we said earlier was the bottom of the dwm poll.
• 3:47:04
  Nathan are you sending Kinder packing?
• 3:47:08
  No, I think it's the best story of the season and it does have
• 3:47:13
  Fair claim to being one of the best to the era and it is a top
• 3:47:17
  tier doctor whose story I actually tend to agree with Rob
• 3:47:20
  that I think snake dance is I like snake dancer a bit better
• 3:47:24
  and what it manages to do. Is it kind of manages to flesh
• 3:47:30
  out the backstory of the mara, which absolutely didn't need it.
• 3:47:35
  But it does it without ruining them and that's a trick that is
• 3:47:38
  rarely ever pulled off. In fact deepens them and makes
• 3:47:42
  them more interesting and more strange and more mythical than
• 3:47:46
  they are the first time around. I think the Cleveland episode 3
• 3:47:51
  is astonishing like absolutely I want to see Doctor Who do things
• 3:47:58
  that it has done before that's one of the reasons why I mean
• 3:48:02
  join the current run of doctors who on telly because it's doing
• 3:48:08
  things that I've never seen Dr. Who do before?
• 3:48:10
  It's not squabbling rubber. It's not you know.
• 3:48:16
  You know, it's not a quarry endorse it.
• 3:48:18
  It's absolutely doing something utterly strange and something
• 3:48:21
  inexplicable. And I think it's amazing just
• 3:48:26
  and as standing one, it's another Cliffhanger too, where
• 3:48:29
  what's happening in the Cliffhanger is dwarfed by what
• 3:48:33
  happens immediately afterwards as well.
• 3:48:35
  Just like the Cliffhanger to episode 2, which also is one of
• 3:48:39
  the best Cliffhangers in the shows history.
• 3:48:41
  I think yeah, like no notes. I think even even the garden
• 3:48:47
  center like I think that the that that that swapping it with
• 3:48:53
  the set in Planet of evil, whichever.
• 3:48:57
  I love so much would be a horrific mistake because then
• 3:49:02
  it's a space jungle and absolutely shouldn't be that and
• 3:49:07
  you know, maybe if the rest of the thing had been on film if
• 3:49:11
  obviously if the whole thing had been shot on film, I mean
• 3:49:14
  biggest Studios and more committed that would have been
• 3:49:16
  great that would have been better.
• 3:49:17
  But given the way that doctor who's being made at this time.
• 3:49:21
  I think that making like there's a kind of there's the dome which
• 3:49:29
  is supposed to be impermeable and and in a way it's not you
• 3:49:33
  know, we can see the jungle through the dough at all times,
• 3:49:37
  you know, these windows and things that look out we can you
• 3:49:41
  know, there's space where you can see the thing.
• 3:49:44
  So the the jungle and the jungle and the Dome have to be in the
• 3:49:49
  same kind of space, you know, you couldn't have one on film
• 3:49:52
  and one in the studio because they they permeate one another
• 3:49:57
  and that's part of the thing isn't it?
• 3:49:59
  You know you go out in this box into this space and the space
• 3:50:05
  invades the Box karuna gives that box to Sanders in the other
• 3:50:10
  box. You know, it's a it's a it's a
• 3:50:13
  thing. Anyway, look, I just think it's
• 3:50:16
  so resonant. It doesn't it's it's about
• 3:50:20
  things as you said Rob that are complicated to explain and it's
• 3:50:24
  not an allegory. It's it's not anything like that
• 3:50:27
  but it says things about colonialism that says things
• 3:50:29
  about time and identity. It's just magnetic all the
• 3:50:35
  performances of great nearest one of the two great nearest of
• 3:50:39
  doctors who history, you know, I absolutely brill.
• 3:50:44
  I'm brilliant piece of work, I think.
• 3:50:46
  So I thought that's annaleise. Oh, just remember.
• 3:50:58
  Yeah and nervous. He does.
• 3:51:01
  He does the Bitchie best friend very well.
• 3:51:02
  What I was young. It wasn't Doctor Who monsters
• 3:51:07
  are scared me. It was adults.
• 3:51:10
  That were afraid and adults that were behaving out of character.
• 3:51:15
  So this story really unnerved me when I was a kid.
• 3:51:18
  I couldn't even put my finger on it.
• 3:51:20
  Why and that I think the first bit that really scared me was
• 3:51:23
  kinda Kindle tearing up the plants and smashing up the room,
• 3:51:27
  which was a scene. I've never seen in a doctor
• 3:51:30
  before Then when he started behaving like a child like
• 3:51:34
  regressing into a child that and then towards the end, there's a
• 3:51:38
  wonderful scene with him and his uses character where he says her
• 3:51:43
  you frightened of me and she says yeah call sire and he says
• 3:51:47
  yeah good and that just horrified me as a kid.
• 3:51:51
  I had quite a brutal father and I didn't quite understand what
• 3:51:56
  was going on in my house and something clicked in my head
• 3:51:58
  when I heard those three lines, but like sometimes people like
• 3:52:02
  to scare other people and so that whole level of this story
• 3:52:06
  of Hindus journey and his breakdown.
• 3:52:09
  I think it's so sophisticated and I think the way Simon Ross
• 3:52:12
  plays it is so smart, like he's not afraid to look completely
• 3:52:16
  ridiculous what he's dive in that City and booing out the
• 3:52:20
  cardboard box and he just goes for it doesn't he and it's
• 3:52:24
  terrible. So Hindus breakdown just
• 3:52:27
  resonated with me in a white frightening way.
• 3:52:29
  I said the end of apart free as well.
• 3:52:31
  If I know you was going to go for that I should have gone
• 3:52:34
  first, but it's just the weird trippy direction, right?
• 3:52:37
  You don't really know what's going on what anything means,
• 3:52:40
  you know, the clocks are counting down and we're heading
• 3:52:42
  towards a big moment and there's Mary Morris, you know coming
• 3:52:47
  along in top of the pop special effects and it's crazy like
• 3:52:51
  Doctor Who just doesn't do weird enough does it so, I love all
• 3:52:55
  that what the hell's going on in that cave of all those bubbles
• 3:52:58
  outside flying around, who knows but I love it.
• 3:53:02
  And also the other thing that really scared me when I was
• 3:53:04
  young and now was just a conceptual horror of the mara.
• 3:53:08
  So before it's the snake when it's in his head at, you know,
• 3:53:12
  like image of a snake coiling around in somebody's head around
• 3:53:17
  their brain praying on their anxiety relinquishing control
• 3:53:21
  from people and then driving them like a puppy.
• 3:53:24
  It's fucking terrifying this story and I think a child might
• 3:53:30
  watch this and not take this so it's one that works.
• 3:53:34
  On so many levels the older that you get as well.
• 3:53:36
  Yeah for being one of the most terrifying doctors saying I am
• 3:53:42
  putting it for Okay, um, well cards on the table.
• 3:53:46
  This is my favorite Davis and I would say for me.
• 3:53:51
  This is the best story of the 80s until we get to Carmel and I
• 3:53:55
  think at that point there's some competition but I absolutely
• 3:53:59
  love Kinder I said when we did snake down so it's got the what
• 3:54:04
  I think is probably the second best cast in the Davidson period
• 3:54:07
  this one has got the best cast. I mean the everybody in this is
• 3:54:12
  absolutely spectacular, but I just want to pick up briefly
• 3:54:15
  three things that I think I've done brilliantly here that would
• 3:54:20
  have liked to have seen more of in Davison Sarah because they
• 3:54:22
  worked so well in the first one Nathan Joey you've already
• 3:54:25
  talked about is surreal nurse, you know Sapphire and steel was
• 3:54:29
  coming to an end on on TV would have been great for Doctor Who
• 3:54:32
  to pick up some of that kind of real other world in us and just
• 3:54:36
  weirdness that we get here and we get to see here the Mara's
• 3:54:40
  gradual possession of Teague and how it plays her through fear
• 3:54:43
  and manipul. Nation I mean that's just
• 3:54:45
  brilliant. Usually we just see someone
• 3:54:47
  being taken over by someone in Doctor Who here we get to
• 3:54:51
  actually understand what that means and we see it and that
• 3:54:54
  whole black and white sequins with the characters who
• 3:54:57
  obviously representing the doctor and adric and Nissa it's
• 3:55:01
  just brilliantly written. It's totally chilling.
• 3:55:04
  It's shot perfectly by Grimm Wade, but it just gives you that
• 3:55:08
  tripping us that it just feels different.
• 3:55:11
  We've talked about the end or climax to episode three which is
• 3:55:15
  spectacular. I mean, you wouldn't want this
• 3:55:18
  in every single doctor story but there are a couple of times this
• 3:55:20
  season. I love kostrov we've talked
• 3:55:23
  about it. But if that had some more kind
• 3:55:25
  of etherealness that this has got and like in time flight we
• 3:55:29
  see that battle for control of good and bad in a more kind of
• 3:55:32
  surreal way there were opportunities to bring this kind
• 3:55:35
  of approach into theaters and they just missed her.
• 3:55:38
  She should be yeah, absolutely absolutely like but I love that.
• 3:55:44
  The second thing I want to say that works really well here that
• 3:55:47
  would have liked to see more of it's the kind of psychological
• 3:55:49
  horror that we get here handles growing dissent into Mathis is
• 3:55:53
  so much more powerful and disturbing and engaging than any
• 3:55:57
  kind of physical violence that we see later on in the same
• 3:56:00
  would period but of course that does depend on kind of maturity
• 3:56:03
  of writing and some brilliant acting which we get here.
• 3:56:06
  How is no one mentioned Hinds you can't mend people.
• 3:56:10
  How is just chilling and the extreme more scared and that is
• 3:56:15
  when he it's what he's mended at the end.
• 3:56:19
  Absolutely. So wonderful me actually I
• 3:56:22
  thought so gorgeous. It's so good.
• 3:56:24
  Yeah. No the fact that you don't end
• 3:56:27
  the story with a man who's going increasingly mad and more
• 3:56:31
  deranged with him by some of these shooting him, but actually
• 3:56:34
  with him. You know holding, you know
• 3:56:37
  eating an apple and holding the hand of his mentor and just
• 3:56:41
  wandering off into the it's gorgeous and it's so moving
• 3:56:45
  because there are parallels. There are parallels on with with
• 3:56:48
  Andres Army when we see Sharkey's in state of mapless,
• 3:56:51
  but he ends up in a horrible death.
• 3:56:54
  Whereas hey, you're upselling right?
• 3:56:55
  We got a positive message at the end, but I'd love to see more
• 3:56:59
  psychological horror Nathan you to about the current series.
• 3:57:01
  We know we've just had a time of recording which had boom and 73
• 3:57:05
  yards. That's absolutely doing like
• 3:57:07
  kind of suspense and tension and paranoia would have been lovely
• 3:57:11
  if they brought some more of that in at this stage and then
• 3:57:15
  my third reason that third most opportunity of the 80s, A Shante
• 3:57:20
  watch Sarah Sutton in keeper of track and thought she'd make a
• 3:57:24
  great companion. Why?
• 3:57:26
  Oh, why did he not see Nellis use and think we need to get her
• 3:57:30
  back her and Davidson are spectacular.
• 3:57:33
  Just imagine advertising Earth shock Nyssa gets absorbed by the
• 3:57:37
  xerophyte like she's threatened to do Tegan stays a Heathrow.
• 3:57:41
  We start season 20 with the Doctor remitting Todd on a new
• 3:57:46
  planet just like just like tenant and take come back
• 3:57:50
  together again. Yes, and with that sort of
• 3:57:56
  strange nervous rooms. Maybe that's what he was afraid
• 3:58:01
  of though. No.
• 3:58:02
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 3:58:03
  That's interesting because Dave has some holds nervous his hand.
• 3:58:06
  He puts his hand on his shoulder.
• 3:58:07
  He can't touch any of the companions because jnc rules
• 3:58:10
  out. No, thank you Bank in the
• 3:58:12
  Tardis, but he's very physical with Harris right the way
• 3:58:15
  through and she's just brilliant.
• 3:58:16
  She's got agency. She's intelligible and the two
• 3:58:19
  of the just spark and it's the biggest waste opportunity to
• 3:58:22
  theaters that we don't have those two trailer.
• 3:58:25
  No companion in his entire era. They yes the same chemistry not
• 3:58:29
  always. So absolutely Kinder is flying
• 3:58:35
  through brilliant. Gentlemen, we got the end of
• 3:58:38
  round one and a half hours in don't worry.
• 3:58:42
  We're nearly done round two is less about is three and a half
• 3:58:45
  minutes. Yeah, because we've already had
• 3:58:47
  the discussions. We have been off one story.
• 3:58:49
  We've been off for to Doomsday which most people will find
• 3:58:53
  quite surprising that six of the seven are in but Joe Q or campus
• 3:58:58
  music we are going to end the wheel and our first one is time
• 3:59:04
  flight and time flight is being pitted against it's come up time
• 3:59:09
  for it again. Oh interesting the visitation
• 3:59:12
  time flight versus the visitation.
• 3:59:14
  Let's go with Rob. I choose time fight over the
• 3:59:18
  visitation. I just think it's more ambitious
• 3:59:21
  like for this is a tough one for you.
• 3:59:25
  No, I it's not I think time flight definitely flight.
• 3:59:30
  I'm definitely going time flight because I am busted visitation.
• 3:59:34
  I think time flights great just four four then because I was the
• 3:59:41
  visitation. Okay, let's spin the wheel
• 3:59:44
  again. and we have castrovalva and castrovalva is playing.
• 3:59:54
  Time flight this afternoon flyover.
• 4:00:04
  Obviously, I mean I do cash flow and like probably eight times.
• 4:00:09
  So I was having a bad day. I'll probably would come over is
• 4:00:20
  the superior story. I think I should probably Spirit
• 4:00:25
  story much as I was thinking about it really was thinking
• 4:00:29
  about that do enjoy time fly. I think it has such a bad rap.
• 4:00:33
  I would like to defend it but despite all the problems with
• 4:00:37
  structure of just got a haunting us to it.
• 4:00:40
  So Castro Valley is well, it's made with some skills as well.
• 4:00:45
  Yeah. Okay.
• 4:00:49
  So we have black orchid. Against earthshock.
• 4:00:54
  Well, I'm going first black orchids out for me.
• 4:00:56
  It's Earth shock ever. It's time.
• 4:00:58
  Yeah, I'd say as well with the two of them.
• 4:01:03
  Rob here. I'm afraid I mean much as I
• 4:01:05
  really am impressed by Blackwater so many reasons but
• 4:01:10
  he's a shot. Nathan it's Black Orchid for me.
• 4:01:14
  I don't want to lose the best. Well, unfortunately you have
• 4:01:19
  because you're out voted three to one.
• 4:01:20
  I know you wouldn't let me down on this episode knife.
• 4:01:24
  And so we are left with castrovalva Kinder and Earth
• 4:01:29
  shocks. That's been the way all that's
• 4:01:31
  is Kinder. against cashew Volvo I think that's an easy one for
• 4:01:38
  me. Kinder.
• 4:01:40
  Kinder is a far more sophisticated story of two
• 4:01:43
  sophisticated stories. Rob yeah, I'd say yeah.
• 4:01:48
  Yeah, I'm kind of I mean much as I adore.
• 4:01:54
  That was a very easy and so we are left.
• 4:01:57
  Slightly predictably. Unfortunately, we kinda and
• 4:02:00
  Earth shock as our final two. Nathan that's come to you first.
• 4:02:11
  I do adorable shop for many many reasons.
• 4:02:14
  He's one of these is a piece of art and doctor who doesn't have
• 4:02:20
  many of those and we should all cherish it Kinder.
• 4:02:26
  Joe I didn't understand so much about Kinder when I was younger
• 4:02:29
  and it's a story that rewards multiple viewings as many times
• 4:02:35
  as you want to watch it. I think you're always gonna find
• 4:02:37
  something new when you watch it and there's not many doctors
• 4:02:40
  stories. You can say that about kinder
• 4:02:43
  And obviously I'm also going to say kinda sometimes watching
• 4:02:47
  thing. Am I gonna love it as much as I
• 4:02:49
  think I love it and every time I love it more I just think it's
• 4:02:53
  got so much to offer. There's always new things to say
• 4:02:55
  every line is a gem absolutely and I just didn't make dance
• 4:03:01
  when season 20 it did. Well Chris Bailey's doing all
• 4:03:04
  right. It's a competition, isn't it?
• 4:03:05
  He's doing very well. It was a hard fought battle with
• 4:03:08
  the five doctors, but over in the air balloon.
• 4:03:11
  So Kinder is our winner gentlemen, thank you so much.
• 4:03:16
  You have both been unbelievably spectacular that's been great
• 4:03:19
  you No, you are incredibly well come generally.
• 4:03:25
  Is there any way you would like to direct people on social media
• 4:03:28
  or like to promote something Nathan you've already had about
• 4:03:30
  10 plug in my mentioned. I do a podcast called flight to
• 4:03:36
  entirety. I think maybe one sort twice my
• 4:03:39
  Adventure Time. Yeah.
• 4:03:43
  Yeah and tidy.com or Untitled Star Trek project.com. excellent
• 4:03:50
  and Rob um my most recent thing was a show called constellation
• 4:03:55
  on Apple which Peter harness wrote but I committed on a few
• 4:04:01
  years and You know, I think it's kind of fun.
• 4:04:05
  It's kind of weird. You might like it.
• 4:04:07
  If you have apple give it a go. That's my recommendation Rob.
• 4:04:12
  I hate to keep doing this to you.
• 4:04:14
  But recently I was doing a podcast and oh, I do a an extra
• 4:04:20
  like a patreon for the podcast and I had somebody on and
• 4:04:23
  they're only allowed to recommend one thing just one
• 4:04:26
  thing of the entire body of human thought and work and that
• 4:04:30
  was what they recommended. Constellation.
• 4:04:32
  Yeah. Really?
• 4:04:34
  Absolutely. Oh, that's so many recommends in
• 4:04:38
  this all of these podcasts. I can't even begin to tell you.
• 4:04:41
  That's really kind. Actually, I'm not gonna throw in
• 4:04:44
  because I'm a bit now, I think of it my most recent book we
• 4:04:50
  always in the dark. I think he's actually kind of
• 4:04:53
  fun. It's a sort of strange and
• 4:04:56
  Adventure happened of multiple 101 different short stories and
• 4:05:01
  it's kind of mad and if you like any of my My big finish work in
• 4:05:06
  particular. It's got that sort of craziness
• 4:05:08
  and you might like it. So I'm gonna throw that as well
• 4:05:11
  because that's you know, because I don't get paid for
• 4:05:14
  constitution anymore so I can say fantastic.
• 4:05:20
  Okay, just like before we out, you know, you two are two of the
• 4:05:24
  most devastatingly smart people. I know thank you very much.
• 4:05:29
  It has been such a pleasure to listen to your takes on this bit
• 4:05:33
  about thank you for coming on and talking about this nonsense.
• 4:05:37
  That's you know, you've been absolutely thank you John right.
• 4:05:41
  Thank you. Next year is we're doing is
• 4:05:44
  serious 40 season 14. I should say Tom's third series.
• 4:05:48
  But until then we just need to say thank you for listening and
• 4:05:59
  I welcome. Thank you.