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Jimmy Fuel, Jimmy Fire, Jimmy That Which I Desire · Politix

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  But I'm going to be tuning in tonight,
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  you know,
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  with my bottle of Tylenol.
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  SPEAKER_00: Wait, wait, wait.
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  SPEAKER_00: How do we do it?
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  Because the DC ABC station is Sinclair owned and so they're
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  still boycotting.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't actually know how you watch network television.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: This week,
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  SPEAKER_00: a big roundup of development since last week,
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  SPEAKER_00: including the Charlie Kirk Memorial,
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  SPEAKER_00: the firing and unfiring of Jimmy Kimmel,
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  and various Trump administration efforts to use the Kirk
• 0:33
  killing as cover to kind
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  SPEAKER_00: of acclimate the public to a more undisguised form of authoritarianism.
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  SPEAKER_00: Plus,
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  SPEAKER_00: as promised,
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  SPEAKER_00: a conversation about Jeff Duncan,
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  the former Republican running as a Democrat to become the
• 0:45
  governor of Georgia,
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  and the implications of that race for big tentism in the
• 0:49
  Democratic Party.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to hear the whole conversation,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: you can upgrade your subscription to paid at politics.fm.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, everyone.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Politics Podcast.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Brian Boitler.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Matthew Glacius.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of ground to cover this week.
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  SPEAKER_00: If we were going to go chronologically,
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  SPEAKER_00: I suppose we'd start with the suspension of Jimmy Kimmel from ABC.
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  SPEAKER_00: But do you want to start there or with the Charlie Kirk Memorial,
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  SPEAKER_00: which came later,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I think was maybe a better Rosetta Stone for the...
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know that I couldn't bring myself to watch live,
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  but I do think that I've gotten a representative sample from
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  other people's
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  SPEAKER_00: coverage.
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  SPEAKER_00: So that's my.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know what you want to say.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, I.
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  SPEAKER_01: They did the Charlie Cook Memorial as like a big,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: political rally type thing,
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  SPEAKER_01: which,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: one could sort of get very prissy about and say,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: whatever.
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  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's authentic to Charlie Cook's life and work.
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  SPEAKER_01: He was like super interested in Republican Party politics.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: But you did see like a real.
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  SPEAKER_00: And like selling swag, too.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: That was a big part of TV.
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  SPEAKER_01: But you did see an incredibly striking split screen between his widow,
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  SPEAKER_01: who did a kind of classy,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: Christian talk about forgiveness.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then Donald Trump, who came on and was like, like.
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  SPEAKER_01: Charlie Kirk.
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  Trump did like a little like a vision of like Ezra Klein's take
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  on Charlie Kirk.
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  SPEAKER_01: But then like went negative on Kirk and was like,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's bad that he was like a friendly,
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  SPEAKER_01: happy warrior who liked to talk to people.
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  SPEAKER_01: I hate my enemies and I want to crush them.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  and I actually think that – I think that there was something
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  interesting about how
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  SPEAKER_00: he said that because he actually – he was reading,
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  SPEAKER_00: reading,
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  SPEAKER_00: reading.
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  SPEAKER_00: He got to this part in the speech where he's about to say,
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  SPEAKER_00: like Erica Kirk said,
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  SPEAKER_00: that there should be grace and forgiveness about stuff like this.
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  SPEAKER_00: But then he derails himself because he doesn't actually believe that.
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  SPEAKER_00: But what was interesting to me is that in Erica Kirk's speech,
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  SPEAKER_00: she talks about forgiving the person who killed her husband.
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  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
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  SPEAKER_00: And in Donald Trump's speech,
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  SPEAKER_00: the part where he says,
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  SPEAKER_00: that's where I disagree with Erica,
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  he transforms the object of hatred or forgiveness from the
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  person who committed the
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  SPEAKER_00: crime to my opponents.
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  SPEAKER_00: He says, I hate my opponents.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't want what's best for them.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this...
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  SPEAKER_00: There's something really sick,
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  deeply embedded in there that they can't really distinguish
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  between Tyler Robinson
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  SPEAKER_00: and the ACLU or whatever.
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  SPEAKER_01: Well,
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  SPEAKER_01: and,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I mean,
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  SPEAKER_01: this has been like the really real,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: substance of the kind of post-Kirk,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: clampdown.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  I continue to express a good amount of agnosticism about the
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  actual substance of
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  SPEAKER_01: Charlie Kirk's life and work.
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  But I'm quite familiar with the life and work of Donald Trump
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  and very familiar
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  with the discourse that the Republican Party has put forward
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  since Donald Trump
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  SPEAKER_01: was,
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  SPEAKER_01: since Kirk's murder.
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  SPEAKER_01: And they just keep conflating,
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  SPEAKER_01: murdering somebody,
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  SPEAKER_01: incitement to murder,
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  SPEAKER_01: being sort of graceless and non-classy in the wake of somebody's murder,
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  SPEAKER_01: and just being critical of people.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
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  SPEAKER_01: And doing exactly the move that Donald Trump did,
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  where it's like the fact that Kirk was murdered demonstrates
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  the fundamental
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  illegitimacy of any strongly worded criticism of anybody in
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  conservative politics.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I guess, you know, like you've seen this in all these like
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  SPEAKER_01: the left has no idea what they've awakened kind of like tweets.
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  SPEAKER_01: And like, I don't know what to tell you.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't shoot Charlie Kirk.
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  SPEAKER_01: Nobody I know shot Charlie Kirk.
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  SPEAKER_01: Nobody I know said it would be a good idea to shoot Charlie Kirk.
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  There are definitely people who said things in the aftermath of
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  his murder that I
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  SPEAKER_01: think were not like super,
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  SPEAKER_01: uh,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know, decorous or appropriate.
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  SPEAKER_01: But like,
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  SPEAKER_01: I literally cannot find an example of,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: a person saying,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: I believe that a targeted campaign of assassinations against influential
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  SPEAKER_01: conservative political pundits is a good idea.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, nobody thinks that.
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  SPEAKER_00: You didn't even,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  an analogy near and dear to your heart is that after George
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  Floyd was killed,
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  SPEAKER_00: you did see,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: progressive leaders or organizations get swept up.
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  in,
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  in like radical ideas about how to respond to that,
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  that I think some of them later regret.
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  SPEAKER_00: And like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you can't even find,
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  SPEAKER_00: uh,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: like mid weight progressive,
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  SPEAKER_00: whatever groups,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: um,
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  SPEAKER_00: there's nobody,
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  SPEAKER_01: not like the most unhinged fucking sunrise movement.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody is doing this.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like they have just,
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  SPEAKER_01: there's a mix of like,
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  they made up this construct of like widespread celebration of
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  Charlie Kirk's murder
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  SPEAKER_01: and
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  SPEAKER_01: and have been perpetuating just,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: a breathtakingly illiberal vision in which,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: just to express strong disagreement.
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  And,
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  you know,
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  and I mean,
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  something that,
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  like,
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  I think is important about politics,
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  right?
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  SPEAKER_01: Like,
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  SPEAKER_01: the essential paradox of American politics,
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  SPEAKER_01: not American politics,
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  SPEAKER_01: like all politics,
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  SPEAKER_01: is that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  the federal government just like spends huge amounts of money
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  on all different
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  SPEAKER_01: kinds of programs.
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  And if that money is wasted,
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  the consequences of wasteful spending like are enormous.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
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  SPEAKER_01: Like tens,
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  hundreds of millions of people's lives are like rendered
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  dramatically worse by
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  SPEAKER_01: wasteful federal spending.
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  SPEAKER_01: At the same time,
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  SPEAKER_01: when the spending is valuable,
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  like thousands of people will die because they are losing
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  medical treatments that
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  SPEAKER_01: the Trump administration has cut off.
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  SPEAKER_01: And like, that's not like me being like a,
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  SPEAKER_01: It's just, like, the stakes of politics are high.
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  SPEAKER_01: What the federal government does is incredibly important.
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  SPEAKER_01: And you just,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: need to be able to,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: maintain in your head,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: Elon Musk,
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  SPEAKER_01: Donald Trump,
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  and Doge are directly culpable for the deaths of thousands of
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  people through their,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: tampering with U.S.
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  SPEAKER_01: aid.
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  SPEAKER_01: But,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: also,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's not like how if I saw somebody,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: beating somebody up on the street corner—
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  Like,
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  I have a moral obligation to,
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  like,
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  step in with,
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  like,
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  violence and intervene.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's politics.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know what to say.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, we have elections.
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  SPEAKER_01: We have debates.
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  SPEAKER_01: Trump has done a lot of, like, illegal shit and stuff like that.
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  SPEAKER_01: But,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: as you were saying the other day,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: just,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: kicking tons of people off of Medicaid is,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: squarely within the legitimate powers of an electoral...
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  SPEAKER_01: But like, it's also horrible and will kill lots of people.
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  SPEAKER_01: And like that.
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  SPEAKER_01: But like that's that's just what politics is.
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  SPEAKER_01: And you can't get up there and be like,
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  SPEAKER_01: well,
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  for Iglesias to point out that people's lives are at stake in
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  like the policy
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  disputes of the Trump era is tantamount to like I'm calling for
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  people to be
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  SPEAKER_01: murdered because I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm not.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm just talking about the objective stakes of like high level politics.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: more so even than in Trump's speech,
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  if you go listen to – Stephen Miller gave a totally deranged
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  speech at the Kirk
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  SPEAKER_00: Memorial.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think you can see in that speech a few things.
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  SPEAKER_00: One is that,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: they want this or something,
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  SPEAKER_00: some pretextual occurrence,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: to be the end of that kind of politics,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's – they are tired of the fact that the things that they do –
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  SPEAKER_00: like with power,
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  SPEAKER_00: the legitimate things they do with power are unpopular and unsustainable
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: politically.
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  And rather than moderate them or adopt new views or focus on
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  different things that
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: might carry the day in elections better,
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  they just want to repress all opposition so that they can just
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  do things that they
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  SPEAKER_00: want to do without ever having to really own them.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think that's been clear for a while.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's sort of like the
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  We were talking about this aspect of republicanism even after
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  Mitt Romney lost and
• 9:32
  republicans were so desperate to keep the tax cutting part of
• 9:35
  their agenda in their
• 9:37
  agenda that they made up a whole story about how immigration
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  was the reason that
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  SPEAKER_00: they lost the 2012 election.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was just like anything – we will make any change –
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  to our agenda that we have to,
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  to try again in 2016,
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  but not change that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: and if you,
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: if you'll never let it go,
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  then eventually logic points to Stephen Miller is where you
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  just look around for
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  SPEAKER_00: bad things happening in America,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: point to them and say,
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  SPEAKER_00: this means that we no longer have to actually contest ideas or defend the
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  SPEAKER_00: consequences of our healthcare policy.
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  SPEAKER_00: So that's like one half of it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing,
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  SPEAKER_00: is that like the, the naked, where like Erica Kirk says, I forgive him.
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  Like the,
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  maybe the only person at that whole memorial who used the
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  proper pronoun,
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  right.
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  SPEAKER_00: For the, for the culprit here.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  SPEAKER_00: and the,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  Trump and Miller and everyone else referring to they as like
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  the people responsible
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  SPEAKER_00: for killing Kirk.
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  SPEAKER_00: It, it actually like, it makes, it makes it hard to credit the,
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  any Republican in good standing who shows any measure of grace
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  or magnanimity.
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  I do not want to question the motives or psychology of somebody
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  who was very
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  SPEAKER_00: recently widowed because it feels rude to do that.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: But also,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's value in her words,
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  even if she didn't really quite mean them or she said them
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  because that's the
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  SPEAKER_00: appropriate thing to say.
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  But it is,
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  I think,
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  worth noting that it's probably easier to forgive a murderer
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  if like your entire social universe has agreed that he didn't
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  actually kill anyone
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  but quote unquote they did right like that is the milieu in
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  which he's saying I
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  forgive this guy Tyler Robinson is it because like like you are
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  redirecting the
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  anger that you would normally direct at him at like thousands
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  of random innocents
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  SPEAKER_00: and I think that
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think that,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: that is contributing to...
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_01: maybe,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I also think,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: I saw some takes,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: in the wake of the memorial that were,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: from people on,
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: both sides politically were,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: this really shows how we're,
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: like...
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know, like, we're divided into two separate countries, right?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually kind of felt up there on stage that you saw that,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: as much as we are divided in an era of polarization,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: there are divides within the divide.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Eric...
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  SPEAKER_01: Kirk's speech was both just like very literally like Christian doctrine.
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  SPEAKER_01: Charlie Kirk,
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  SPEAKER_01: as I said last week,
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  like something that's notable about him is that he's an
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  evangelical Protestant,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: which is like an important part of Republican Party based politics,
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  SPEAKER_01: but like not that many like prominent conservative takesters.
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  SPEAKER_01: are in the evangelical space.
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  SPEAKER_01: Stephen Miller is Jewish, like you and me.
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  Donald Trump is like a nominal Christian,
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  but like,
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  yeah,
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  he doesn't even like really fake it.
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  SPEAKER_01: Two Corinthians.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right, but like he's not like a person who goes to church, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: Or like reflects on the themes of the Gospels when he's doing his...
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  SPEAKER_01: And this is just like,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  there's only two political parties in the United States and
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  this like continues to
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: be a large and diverse society.
• 13:00
  I mean,
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  I remember there was a comparable thing actually after the
• 13:05
  Emanuel church shooting.
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  SPEAKER_01: In South Carolina,
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  SPEAKER_01: which is obviously a liberal coded institution,
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  SPEAKER_01: but it's like literally a church.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the black church is a pillar of the Democratic Party,
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  but also is an exception in Democratic Party spaces in being
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  like being very
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  SPEAKER_01: Christian.
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  And some of the victims,
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  victims,
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  parents were really talking about forgiveness there.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I appreciated what they were saying, but it's also like.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's not my religion in either direction.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's fine.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And not that I'm like,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: was up there being like,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: we need to give like an Old Testament speech.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 13:45
  I'm a secular humanist consequentialist who wants to talk after
• 13:49
  every noteworthy
• 13:50
  event about what are constructive forward-looking actions we
• 13:54
  can take to make life
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: better on this earth.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not interested in that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: forgiveness or people's eternal salvation.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: These are just, you know, different modes of thought that are present.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: clearly,
• 14:07
  Donald Trump and the leaders of the Trump administration are
• 14:10
  primarily interested
• 14:12
  not in Charlie Kirk as a person or the killer as a person or in
• 14:17
  anybody's spiritual
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: welfare,
• 14:20
  but they are interested in instrumentalizing this as part of a
• 14:24
  crackdown on
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: opposition political activity.
• 14:27
  And everything that they've done from this like vaguely worded
• 14:32
  Antifa order to just
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: like the insistence,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 14:36
  Like the FBI is like,
• 14:38
  you know,
• 14:39
  they're like trying to find a second shooter,
• 14:42
  right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because like if they can find even a tiny wider conspiracy, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: That can be a pretext for looking at more things.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes us to Jimmy Kimmel,
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: which is like the most extreme outlier version of this,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: where Brendan Carr at the FCC is like,
• 15:04
  I'm going to take advantage of the passions of the moment here
• 15:09
  to just like...
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: try to use the FCC as a general censorship institution.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Or Meghan McCain,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: just this morning,
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: says on Twitter,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: even if they bring Jimmy Kimmel back,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: he and every late night host,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: daytime talk show host,
• 15:24
  and network anchor that traffics in nothing but Republican hate
• 15:27
  knows it's only a
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: matter of time before they are all canceled and removed from air.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not if, but when.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Tick tock.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 15:35
  And so,
• 15:35
  like,
• 15:35
  you know,
• 15:36
  Meghan McCain is not the chair of the FCC,
• 15:38
  but,
• 15:38
  like,
• 15:39
  this is a...
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is a vibe that's out there.
• 15:42
  Like we are going to use the power of the state plus the
• 15:46
  financial clout of,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:49
  our aligned rich people to just like shut down critics of
• 15:55
  conservative politics.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's the Megan McCain quotes interesting,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: especially in like the full context of what happened with Kimmel,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: which is that,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Brendan Carr goes on Benny Johnson's podcast.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I like I personally find it hilarious.
• 16:10
  That this like act of censorship that that was rooted nominally
• 16:17
  in the idea that
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: the public interest isn't served by like partisan late night hosts saying
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: inaccurate things on the Benny Johnson show where Benny's like a like a
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: well-established like plagiarist and fascist.
• 16:28
  So so Brendan Carr is there and he says there need to be
• 16:31
  consequences for Kimmel
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: and we can do this the easy way or the hard way.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:36
  And there's a merger underway between two companies that own a
• 16:46
  ton of ABC stations.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: They need approval for Brendan Carr.
• 16:50
  Disney has already tangled with the Trump administration and
• 16:53
  capitulated.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so they seemingly like both got the message.
• 16:57
  And first these individual stations canceled Kimmel so they
• 17:04
  wouldn't air him anymore.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then ABC took him off altogether.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that created – like without –
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: the benefit of any kind of like boycott movement or,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: or like organizing hub for protests,
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: a huge backlash,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: lots of cancellations of Hulu and Disney plus and things like that.
• 17:20
  Like celebrities saying that they wouldn't work with Disney
• 17:22
  anymore unless they
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: reverse this decision.
• 17:24
  And so sure enough,
• 17:25
  they reversed the decision,
• 17:26
  but that puts a,
• 17:28
  like that tosses the ball.
• 17:30
  If we're just going to accept the corrupt framework that we're
• 17:33
  living in for a
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: second back to Brendan Carr,
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: is he going to block the merger now?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is he going to try to find other avenues for reprisals against Disney?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I like I don't think this worked out super well for Republicans.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: This like experiment that Brendan Carr took them on.
• 17:51
  No,
• 17:51
  this is one of the most like even even Ted Cruz was like,
• 17:55
  that's gangster talk.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I like Brendan Carr, but what the hell are you doing?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, like like Meghan McCain.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: left it ambiguous enough in her comment there that,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: that if you press her on it,
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: she might say,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: what I'm saying is that,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: that style of comedy that's,
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 18:12
  partisan in one direction on broadcast TV is just not going to
• 18:16
  succeed and will
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: fail as a business enterprise because it won't get enough ratings.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter of, like, a matter of when.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: as you say,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think if Brendan Carr was like,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: fine,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: you'd,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to have to do this the hard way now,
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: that Meghan McCain would be there on the sidelines cheering them on,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: cheering him on.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think that's right.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but I think...
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think we saw with Carr, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: it was just one of the clearest cycles of overreach and backlash that,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: we've really seen here.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:54
  To the point where like now Carr is like denying that he said
• 18:56
  what he said.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it was just one of those.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, sometimes people fuck up.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's like,
• 19:06
  it's not like the fuck up was abusing the FCC's power to get
• 19:10
  Jimmy Kimmel off the
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: air,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: but it was like doing it so unsubtly.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: so like with,
• 19:18
  we had this parallel case where like when David Ellison was
• 19:26
  going to buy Paramount,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: it really seems like
• 19:31
  As part of getting merger approval,
• 19:35
  like CBS agreed to settle a kind of bogus Trump lawsuit.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what I think happened.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I...
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I could not prove in a court of law that that's what happened.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:49
  Like,
• 19:50
  now,
• 19:50
  maybe if I had extensive discovery powers,
• 19:53
  I could get to the bottom of it.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I bet I couldn't.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I bet they handled that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Ted Cruz said this was like gangster stuff.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: But like, it actually wasn't gangster stuff.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like what they did with the Paramount merger, that's gangster stuff.
• 20:07
  where it was all done through implication and innuendo and
• 20:10
  things perhaps whispered
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: off the record in oral conversations.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: What Carr did with Jimmy Kimmel was done like an idiot,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: who's just like stating on the record,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing crimes.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: and that's I don't know,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: the bad guys fuck up.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's part of what happens here.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: The public opinion reaction was really, really strong.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people were mad, got mad at Disney about it.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: You just lacked the menace of like, you know, but you don't really know.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Of, like, an effective authoritarian move?
• 20:49
  Do you think the experience here is going to tend to make
• 20:55
  similarly situated
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: corporate entities less likely to bend the knee,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: whether the threats are explicit or...
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: implicit or private or whatever that like,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: this was the first time where it wasn't just like,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: like all the law,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: all the law firms have capitulated to Trump.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think came out looking bad.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: All the ones that stood up to him came off looking good.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Harvard has done a better job than most of the other universities.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Trump has targeted like a pattern is emerging here,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: but I think this is the first time where,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: like the,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: the incentives kind of inverted and,
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking at what happened to ABC and Disney over the last week,
• 21:37
  you might come away thinking that there's a huge price for
• 21:44
  capitulating and there's
• 21:46
  a big reward for standing up and that it might change the
• 21:51
  calculus as Trump gets
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: weaker,
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: less popular –
• 21:56
  Um,
• 21:57
  like,
• 21:58
  like,
• 21:58
  like the bell,
• 21:58
  the bell,
• 21:59
  the bell can't really be on wrong in a sense.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: if,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: if CBS does something else like that looks capitulative,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: it is,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: everyone's going to be like,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: like did Brendan Carr threaten you to do this?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And are you just selling out the first amendment for, uh, for profit?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: although I do – I think that the level of clarity – you know,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: because,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: one thing that happens here,
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: right,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: that's relevant in all these cases is that,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Disney as a corporation is very much in the talent business.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like –
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: They can be fine with or without Jimmy Kimmel.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact,
• 22:42
  like one of the reasons that The Kimmel Show in particular was
• 22:45
  vulnerable to this
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: kind of thing is that like the late night franchises have been like,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: the economics of them have gotten much worse than they used to be.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: If this was happening in 2006,
• 22:59
  when having a popular late night host was like a really
• 23:02
  important part of being a
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: big media company,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it would have been harder to go after him.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: But Disney was clearly facing backlash from other people in Hollywood.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Who were like, yo, this is bad.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Most people,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: most of the time,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:20
  prefer not to like stand up for political principles if they
• 23:24
  can get away with it.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because like to credibly threaten to like a major Hollywood movie studio,
• 23:31
  like maybe I don't want to work with you if you do the wrong
• 23:33
  thing here means you
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: might need to make sacrifice on your own part.
• 23:38
  Part of the deal with the CBS thing is like because everybody
• 23:43
  has plausible deniability.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can go on making your Paramount movie and be like,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: whereas like what happened with Disney was just it was so over the top.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was so high profile.
• 23:59
  Carr not only threatened them in advance,
• 24:01
  but he took credit after it happened.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like Trump never said like when CBS settled the lawsuit,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: what Trump said was that that vindicated his position in the lawsuit.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:15
  He wasn't like,
• 24:15
  so you can see my meritless lawsuit paid off due to my FCC
• 24:20
  bullying.
• 24:21
  So,
• 24:21
  you know,
• 24:22
  it's like definitely like,
• 24:24
  yes,
• 24:24
  like a noteworthy aspect of Trump,
• 24:27
  too.
• 24:29
  is that there has been much less popular mobilization against
• 24:34
  Donald Trump.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of tech companies,
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 24:39
  felt during Trump's first administration that their workforce
• 24:43
  was primarily
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: left-of-center people.
• 24:46
  And that they therefore like had to pay some attention to the
• 24:51
  sensibilities of sort
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: of rank and file software engineers in California on a variety of topics.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is completely out the window in Trump too, right?
• 25:02
  Some of that is because like there has been opinion shift among
• 25:06
  the people
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: involved,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: but a lot of it is not opinion shift.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's just demobilization.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like we haven't seen women's march scale activism.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's just been.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't think that's it's been rooted into this no kings framework.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's in a way it's it's a bigger protest movement.
• 25:25
  It's just more distributed and it's more overarching theme as
• 25:30
  opposed to like women's science.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it's been smaller, though, like in terms of the number.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been more.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's been more like.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:44
  resistance people being mad at Democrats and less like
• 25:49
  resistance people being in
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: the streets against Trump and just like more of like,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: A lack of like strong resistance vibes,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: even as like many of Trump's actions are pretty unpopular.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's been selective pushback in different areas.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And some of it,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 26:12
  is that like people don't feel confident about the forward
• 26:16
  looking electoral
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: prospects of the Democratic Party.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Which influences the calculus on all of these things.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 26:23
  I like I do think that you see like the Democratic leadership
• 26:26
  standing in a row in
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: the same direction as the protest movement,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: like Hakeem Jeffries.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 26:32
  when Sherry Redstone agreed to the terms of the of the bribe
• 26:36
  Trump requested,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: there were there were Democrats in Congress who like this is a problem.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth Warren wrote a letter to her that was very good,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: but it was only signed by her,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Bernie Sanders,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: and Ron Wyden,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: which is not enough,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think,
• 26:51
  to change anyone's incentives when the whole Republican Party
• 26:53
  is aligned behind
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Trump and his abuses of power,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: But now, after what ABC did, Hakeem Jeffries...
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: is kind of like just putting everyone on notice.
• 27:06
  Like the statute of limitations for all this stuff is five
• 27:08
  years and Trump is not
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: going to be in power forever.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we have long memories.
• 27:12
  And I think like that is the kind of thing that needs to be
• 27:17
  like front and center of
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: all progressive discourse,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: really,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: not just from the elected officials,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: if there's going to be stuff like this ABC reversal,
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: if like,
• 27:30
  if you want to create a really powerful counter incentive to
• 27:34
  people just bending
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: the knee.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like, with that change, I think that like the
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: the sense of powerlessness and directionlessness will tend to disappear.
• 27:49
  Because everyone involved who has stake in what's happening
• 27:56
  will be able to think
• 27:57
  ahead to a time when we can try to figure out what was really
• 28:01
  going on in this
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: nine-month period,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: meet out accountability for anything that was illegal or improper,
• 28:08
  You know,
• 28:09
  like I that it is possible that in two years,
• 28:12
  like documents will emerge.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Internal communications will emerge from Paramount that show.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:17
  Like that,
• 28:18
  you know,
• 28:19
  Brendan Carr said,
• 28:20
  you better settle this case or we'll kill your merger.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that would be a crime.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I agree with that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that I don't know how to put it like.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that what happens in the here and now from civil society,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: while not distinct from or unrelated to what Democrats in Congress do,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: is ultimately more important.
• 28:46
  important that like the thing about the ABC backlash is just
• 28:56
  like there was a
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: backlash to ABC like in America,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know what I mean?
• 29:01
  And like from people who were there so that the sense of
• 29:07
  consequences and accountability
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: wasn't just like,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: if Democrats do well in 2026 and 2028 and then they retake power,
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: like they may come back.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: and like Edis,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: it was like,
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: right now I'm concerned that like people are going to cancel Hulu.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: That like major directors are going to not work with our studio.
• 29:30
  That the Marvel Cinematic Universe franchise,
• 29:33
  which has been like flagging a little bit lately.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've ever been the dominant force in entertainment for a long time.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like...
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: May have even more difficulty getting steam that like Pedro Pascal,
• 29:47
  who like is the front man of one of our signature Star Wars
• 29:52
  streaming shows and is
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: quite vocally progressive on many topics may make trouble for us.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you just didn't see any of that.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: around CBS Paramount type stuff,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: some of which is because the,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: the facts did not emerge in the exact same way,
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: some of which is because it just happened at an earlier time in history,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: some of which is because like,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of different factors,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that is a different thing that occurred.
• 30:22
  And,
• 30:22
  you know,
• 30:23
  and it's just important to keep in mind that like,
• 30:29
  you know,
• 30:29
  what
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: And again,
• 30:32
  like the attempted clampdown that Trump led was like grounded
• 30:38
  in the idea that like
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: rank and file conservatives are like fired up and outraged about this.
• 30:45
  And part of the misfire on Brendan Carr is that like they
• 30:49
  started facing a lot of
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: intra-coalitional issues.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: dissent, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, it took a couple days.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 30:56
  people in the Republican Party sort of like put their finger to
• 30:59
  the wind for 36 to
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: 48 hours.
• 31:02
  But like it started to become clear that like various people
• 31:06
  wanted to get off that
• 31:08
  sort of bandwagon because of the reaction that was like
• 31:10
  occurring in America,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: not because of Hakeem Jeffries's
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: tweets and like this,
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:17
  is also why like ultimately like some of the other Trump things
• 31:23
  that have like
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: basically not worked out,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: like the National Guard deployment to Los Angeles was like,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think like the citizens of Los Angeles sort of,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: appropriately denied Trump the escalating riot that he wanted to see.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: They like
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: expressed negativity about the decision,
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: but like also did so in that case,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: like a calm,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: disciplined way,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: which was good.
• 31:52
  And then people like freaked out about Jimmy Kimmel,
• 31:54
  like which was also good.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: responding in the here and now on a mass society level is important.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so look, like we may get a chance to test
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Both halves of the theory,
• 32:06
  because I think that there are some things afoot that don't
• 32:09
  have the cultural
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: element that the Disney Kimmel situation did.
• 32:16
  Because like the,
• 32:17
  you know,
• 32:17
  the thing Brendan Carr did kind of,
• 32:21
  it fits into two contexts.
• 32:22
  Like one is purely the post Kirk hothouse Republican effort to
• 32:27
  try to use it as a
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: pretext for crackdown.
• 32:29
  But like the other part is this sort of unrelated,
• 32:32
  like omni descent into lawlessness.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: So like at the same time as Brendan Carr does this,
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 32:41
  Trump posted a message for Pam Bondi on True Social calling on
• 32:46
  her to to indict his
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: enemies,
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: even if it means firing the Republican U.S.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: attorney in eastern Virginia.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:55
  And so then that prosecutor resigns and there's reporting here
• 32:58
  and there that that
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: will presage presage indictments of Jim Comey,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: maybe Letitia James,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: and that there will be obviously like
• 33:07
  pretextual bad they probably won't stand up especially with
• 33:11
  trump having been out
• 33:11
  there asking for them um but like does that happen or does the
• 33:17
  administration uh
• 33:20
  retreat on its own seeing that the public isn't really with
• 33:23
  them on this stuff and
• 33:24
  even though it's not like it contains none of the cultural
• 33:27
  import of of the disney
• 33:28
  corporation well also we saw well but then but then if they do
• 33:32
  go ahead like what
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: happens then like would there be
• 33:36
  mass mobilization against the weaponization of law enforcement
• 33:40
  in this sort of naked way.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like like where on the one hand,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Trump would just be dictating indictments of people he doesn't like.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile,
• 33:48
  like apparently there's a videotape of Tom Holman taking fifty
• 33:51
  thousand dollars in
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: a cash bribe.
• 33:53
  And the reporting is that this was like during the Biden
• 33:56
  administration,
• 33:58
  like by the
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: The Biden DOJ,
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: for like good and bad reasons,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: did not release the videotape before the election.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then Trump came in and they killed the whole investigation.
• 34:07
  Like with that on with that out there and suddenly a bunch of
• 34:12
  like indictments of
• 34:13
  Trump's enemies being rolled out and they're thin and get
• 34:16
  laughed out of court or
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: whatever.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see people realizing,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: OK,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: like we need to be in the streets for more than just like raw censorship,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: First Amendment style abuses of power?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a good, it's a good question.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think we should, we should take a break and then, you know, deliver.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just deliver the answers to this question.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Cause it's gonna, it's gonna all feed it.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be a good challenge.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to hear us answer all those great questions,
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: you can go to politics.fm and upgrade your subscription.