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EPSTEIN MURDERED, PROOF? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Jeffrey Epstein murdered. Is their
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Speaker 1: proof tonight? A mysterious flash of orange and inmate caught
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Speaker 1: on camera going up the stairs to Jeffrey Epstein's tier
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Speaker 1: just before he's found dead. This as damning Google searches
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Speaker 1: emerge on the jailhouse guard's work computer about Epstein just
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Speaker 1: before his body is found that, along with mysterious cash deposits,
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Speaker 1: big cash deposits, the last one being five thousand dollars
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Speaker 1: deposited into the jailer's bank account, bags of shredded documents,
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Speaker 1: all this as new video evidence emerges. I mean to see, Grace,
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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us tonight. With us. The single person left
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Speaker 1: in the world most likely to want the truth about
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Speaker 1: what happened to Jeffrey Epstein, his blood relative, his own brother,
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Speaker 1: is joining us. Mark Epstein, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: My pleasure.
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Speaker 1: Mark, you have not sat back and digested what was
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Speaker 1: being spoon fed to you by the Feds or the media.
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Speaker 1: I'd like to hear your analysis before I began peppering
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Speaker 1: you with questions as to whether your brother, Jeffrey Epstein
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Speaker 1: committed suicide.
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Speaker 2: Well, that doesn't seem to be a question anymore. It
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Speaker 2: was not a suicide. If you go back in time,
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Speaker 2: when Jeffrey was first utopsy the day after they found
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Speaker 2: his body, the initial death certificate said on the cause
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Speaker 2: of death pending further study. They wouldn't call it a
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Speaker 2: suicide or a homicide at that point in time. But
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Speaker 2: both of the pathologists that were there at the autopsy,
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Speaker 2: doctor Christin Roman, who was a city pathologist whose autopsy
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Speaker 2: it was, and Michael Boden, who was there on my behalf,
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Speaker 2: they came out of the autopsy saying that they couldn't
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Speaker 2: call it a suicide because it looked too much like
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Speaker 2: a homicide. That's what they said. I was there, they
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Speaker 2: were talking to me. That doesn't appear in the government report. Okay,
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Speaker 2: it said pending further study. When I've spoken to a
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Speaker 2: number of pathologists, they've always told me that if death
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Speaker 2: certificate says pending further study, you don't get an answer
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Speaker 2: usually for weeks or so because something's being investigated, some
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Speaker 2: studying is being done. That wasn't done here. They never
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Speaker 2: investigated Jeffrey's death anything other than a suicide, as they
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Speaker 2: called it, because you know, the attorney Bill Barr, the
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Speaker 2: Attorney General at the time, came out and said that
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Speaker 2: he personally watched the videotape from outside of the tier.
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Speaker 2: Because we know the camera in the tier was not
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Speaker 2: working or was not recording. That story has changed. He
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Speaker 2: personally saw the videotape and he saw that nobody went
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Speaker 2: in or out of the tier, and that convinced him
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Speaker 2: it was a suicide. And when I heard that, I
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Speaker 2: realized this is a cover of some kind, because number one,
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Speaker 2: I thought, why is the Attorney general personally watching the videotape?
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Speaker 2: That didn't seem realistic. And also he completely ignored the
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Speaker 2: possibility that if Jeffrey was killed, he could have been
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Speaker 2: killed by somebody that was already on the tier. There
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Speaker 2: were about twelve or so other inmates on the tier
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Speaker 2: that would not have to go and come. Also, when
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Speaker 2: Bill bon made that statement, it leads you to believe
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Speaker 2: that you could see the door to the tier from
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Speaker 2: that camera outside of the tier. So if he saw
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Speaker 2: the door and nobody went in or out, he could
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Speaker 2: say nobody went in or out. But with the release
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Speaker 2: of the videotapes, you know last year, you see number one,
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Speaker 2: you cannot see the door to the tier, and you
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Speaker 2: someone could go to that door and leave by staying
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Speaker 2: on the right hand side of the staircase that leads
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Speaker 2: up to the tier. And we know that there was
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Speaker 2: some orange blur, as they're calling it, either an innate
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Speaker 2: wearing orange or guards carrying sheets up the stairs which
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Speaker 2: go to that tier. So Bill Barr's statement that nobody
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Speaker 2: went in or out of the tier is based on nothing.
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Speaker 2: And the fact that he ignored that somebody on the
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Speaker 2: tier would have done harm to somebody, you know, makes
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Speaker 2: his conclusion just ridiculous. And when I heard that, I said,
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Speaker 2: he's either part of a cover up or he's the
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Speaker 2: stupidest guy on the planet. No, Barr is complicit in
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Speaker 2: this cover up. In his recent congressional testimony, when he
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Speaker 2: was asked about doctor Barton's comment that, you know, he
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Speaker 2: thought it was more of a homicide, Bill Boss said
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Speaker 2: under oath, he said doctor Barden came after the fact,
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Speaker 2: That's what he said. I laughed when I heard that,
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Speaker 2: because Barden everyone knows Bonden was there for the entire autopsy.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Sampson, who was the chief Medical Examiner of New
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Speaker 2: York at the time, who called it a suicide. A
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Speaker 2: few days later, she came after the fact, she called
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Speaker 2: it a suicide, and she never saw the body. She
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Speaker 2: was not there. The two pathologists that did the autopsy
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Speaker 2: said it looked more like a homicide. Barbara Sampson, who
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Speaker 2: didn't see the body, said it was a suicide. And
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Speaker 2: there's a lot of information on the autopsy that they
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Speaker 2: have ignored or tried to downplay. Now recently there's been
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Speaker 2: two different teams of pathologists who have reviewed the autopsy results.
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Speaker 2: And they're not doing this on my behalf. I'm not
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Speaker 2: paying them. They contacted me. I gave them all the
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Speaker 2: information we had about the utopsy or the photographs or
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Speaker 2: the notes and everything, and they've concluded that this couldn't
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Speaker 2: have been a suicide, coming out with reports that are
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Speaker 2: being peer reviewed, and I'd like to give you more
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Speaker 2: information now, but I'm holding off until the peer review
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Speaker 2: is done, and don't release their reports and you'll see
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Speaker 2: that this was not a suicide.
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Speaker 1: Joining us is Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein. I believe
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Speaker 1: the single most motivated person in the world to find
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Speaker 1: out the truth regarding what happened to Jeffrey Epstein. When
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Speaker 1: he first started talking, he mentioned an orange flash video.
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Speaker 1: We're showing you right now there, guys, I just saw it.
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Speaker 1: Look carefully where we're showing you the highlighted circle. There
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Speaker 1: is someone dressed in orange going up the steps to
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Speaker 1: Epstein's tier. Now, this isn't something Mark Epstein made up
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Speaker 1: or I made up. This is a video analysis included
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Speaker 1: in the Epstein files. An FBI agent noticed the flash
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Speaker 1: of orange going up the stairs and stated, could possibly
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Speaker 1: be an inmate escorted up to that tier. Okay, now
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Speaker 1: that threw everyone for a loop because, as you just heard,
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Speaker 1: Mark Epstein's state officials said, no one went up or
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Speaker 1: down the tier in the critical hours surrounding the critical
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Speaker 1: time where Epstein was killed. But yet there it is
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Speaker 1: someone going up the steps to his tear. So I guess,
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Speaker 1: Mark Epstein, you have observed that, and it's more than
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Speaker 1: a flash. Let's see it again. A flash suggests maybe
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Speaker 1: a camera flash or something quick. No, you see someone
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Speaker 1: in orange, which is not a warden. They don't wear orange.
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Speaker 1: The inmates wear orange going up those steps. It's not
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Speaker 1: a flash. It is absolutely someone going up the steps.
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Speaker 1: When the fans told us that didn't happen, it did happen. Mark.
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Speaker 2: Now, also let me we see that one somebody else
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Speaker 2: could have gone up or down the stairs just by
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Speaker 2: staying to the right side of the staircase and they
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Speaker 2: wouldn't be captured on that camera at all. The fact
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Speaker 2: that we see that orange is because somebody was on
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Speaker 2: the far left hand side of that staircase. But we
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Speaker 2: don't know. Possibly many people could have gone up and
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Speaker 2: down into the tee. I'm not saying they did, but
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Speaker 2: for Bill Barr to say that nobody went in round
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Speaker 2: and that convinced them it was a suicide. But I
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Speaker 2: think that if I could say the dumbest thing I've
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Speaker 2: ever heard.
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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know whether to believe him or my
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Speaker 1: two lion eyes, because I know what I'm seeing. Another
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Speaker 1: point regarding someone going up and down those steps to
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Speaker 1: Epstein's tier. In the Inspector General's report the Inspector General
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Speaker 1: it details staffing failures and concluded a correctional officer believed
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Speaker 1: to be Noel who was the one who had these
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Speaker 1: bizarre Internet searches on the jailhouse computer, including just before
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Speaker 1: his body's found. Latest on Epstein in jail that was
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Speaker 1: just before the body's found and then again the same morning.
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Speaker 1: That's pretty damning. But that said, the Inspector General said, well,
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Speaker 1: that had to be Noel, the warden going up and
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Speaker 1: down the steps carrying inmate linen or bedding. Okay, that's
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Speaker 1: not true. Let's see it again. Because the wardens the
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Speaker 1: jail staff do not wear prison orange. That is not
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Speaker 1: a jail employee carrying lenin. And not only that, Noel
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Speaker 1: swore she did not know why Epstein had extra lenin. Remember,
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Speaker 1: reportedly lenin was used to kill him. And the Inspector
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Speaker 1: General says, oh, this is somebody taking extra lenin up
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Speaker 1: to an inmate. She says, she never gives out lenin
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Speaker 1: because that's done on the prior shift. Okay, what does
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Speaker 1: that tell you, Mark Epstein.
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Speaker 2: Well, one of the things about the gods that's interesting too.
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Speaker 2: We know about the two gods that got into trouble
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Speaker 2: for falsifying the records and not doing their rounds. It
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Speaker 2: was Tovin, Noell and Michael Thomas. We know that Michael
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Speaker 2: Thomas came on shift late at night. Okay, So there's
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Speaker 2: never ever just one god there, that's prison policy. So
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Speaker 2: there was another god there earlier in the night with
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Speaker 2: Tovin Noel until Michael Thomas got there, so he also
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Speaker 2: had to be part of the cover up and falsifying
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Speaker 2: records and not doing the rounds. Why have we not
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Speaker 2: heard about him? I mean, his name is just recently surfaced.
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Speaker 2: But why was he not charged like Tovin Noell and
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Speaker 2: Michael Thomas were. Why did he get special treatment and
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Speaker 2: why was he not questioned or brought to the public
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Speaker 2: eye that he also was part of this conspiracy to
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Speaker 2: falsify records. There's just so much missing information about this
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Speaker 2: and so much nonsense that if this was truly a suicide,
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Speaker 2: it would be easy, there'd be no reason for this
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Speaker 2: lying and obscurrication. It's just crazy, you know, There's there's
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Speaker 2: a lot of more information for in For instance, here's
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Speaker 2: an interesting that you're talking about videotapes. The FBI went
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Speaker 2: into the prison to swap out the hard drives from
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Speaker 2: the recording system. They were told by the technicians that
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Speaker 2: if they swapped out the hard drives, they're going to
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Speaker 2: lose all of the information that was on the hard drives.
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Speaker 2: Yet they swapped out the hard drives anyhow, and they
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Speaker 2: lost the information that was preserved on those hard drives.
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Speaker 2: Also there was I was told that there was somebody
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Speaker 2: with a handheld video camera there the whole time. That's
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Speaker 2: also part of prison protocol when something like this happens,
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Speaker 2: someone's there with a handheld video camera. And I was
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Speaker 2: told that the person was also in the infirmary where
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Speaker 2: they took Jeffrey's body, and also in the hospital where
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Speaker 2: they took Jeff's body. We can't get the footage from
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Speaker 2: that camera. Now we know it also exists because we've
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Speaker 2: seen some pictures of them working on Jeff's body. Okay,
12:28
Speaker 2: those pictures, those still pictures had to come from the
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Speaker 2: video tape from that handheld camera, but we can't get
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Speaker 2: the rest of the footage from that camera. Everything's gone,
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Speaker 2: everything's hidden, disappeared. Yeah, we were never able to get
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Speaker 2: the nine one one call that was made from the
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Speaker 2: prison when they found Jeff's body. You know, we've heard
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Speaker 2: nine one one calls from you know, George Floyd and
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Speaker 2: a lot of other high profile cases. That's never hidden here.
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Speaker 2: We never were able to get the nine one one call.
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Speaker 2: There's just so much missing informations, tons of stuff that's
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Speaker 2: coming in now.
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Speaker 1: Another issue that has reared its ugly head is damning
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Speaker 1: Google searches just before Epstein's body is found, and then
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Speaker 1: ten minutes later, and the significance is they were searched.
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Speaker 1: These searches occurred on Tova Noell's work desktop computer, the
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Speaker 1: latest on Epstein in jail, just before his body is found,
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Speaker 1: and then ten minutes later. When Noel was asked about
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Speaker 1: the searches, she said she didn't remember anything about that
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Speaker 1: and was quote very surprised those searches were on her
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Speaker 1: computer and that was the time she was sitting at
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Speaker 1: her computer. Also, let me ask Mark Epstein, this is
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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's brother who was convinced Jeffrey Epstein did not
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Speaker 1: commit suicide. What about the cash deposits five thousand dollars
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Speaker 1: each and tobno Well's bank account and now we still
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Speaker 1: don't know the purpose of the payments. What do you
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Speaker 1: think about that multiple deposits at least twelve five thousand
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Speaker 1: dollars was the last one, and her bank account? What's that?
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Speaker 1: And it's all cash?
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Speaker 2: Mark Well, I have no idea where that came from.
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Speaker 2: And I don't like speculating. If people have heard me
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Speaker 2: talk before, they know I like to stick to the facts.
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Speaker 2: But a question that pops into my mind is we
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Speaker 2: know that Jeffrey made a telephone call night before he died.
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Speaker 2: You know, in the evening, they let him make a
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Speaker 2: call from the shower area in the prison. Now, I
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Speaker 2: just questioned, did they let him make a phone call
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Speaker 2: out of the goodness of their heart or were they
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Speaker 2: paid to allow that to take place? I don't know. Oh,
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Speaker 2: but that's a question that's popped into my mind. Why
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Speaker 2: would they let him make a phone call, an unauthorized,
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Speaker 2: unrecorded phone call in the maximum security prison. That also
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Speaker 2: doesn't sort of pass the left test from.
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Speaker 1: The it wasn't one of those calls from the bathroom,
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Speaker 1: did you say.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, from the believe it was the shower area.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, Why do you send an inmate unsupervised to the
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Speaker 1: shower to make private cell phone calls?
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Speaker 2: He told them, supposedly that he was calling his mother.
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Speaker 2: This was in twenty nineteen. Our mother passed away in
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Speaker 2: two thousand and four.
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Speaker 1: Another issue mark is the fact that in a case
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Speaker 1: it is so high profile, of all things missing is
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Speaker 1: the alleged noose. After extensive searches, the news was not identified.
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Speaker 1: We see that, but questions have lingered.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, went on that topic. Nancy, doctor Roman, who did
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Speaker 2: the autopsy. We recently got her deposition. She was questioned afterwards,
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Speaker 2: and in her deposition she said she was told not
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Speaker 2: to take DNA evidence and she was prohibited from going
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Speaker 2: to the crime scene. Highly unusual in a case like
16:20
Speaker 2: that would have trying to find a cause of death.
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Speaker 2: Why was she prohibited from seeing the crime scene the
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Speaker 2: first What the crime scene was completely destroyed before anybody
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Speaker 2: got there. They should not have moved Jeff's body. Another question.
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Speaker 2: When they found Jeffrey, we know he was dead for
16:33
Speaker 2: at least a couple of hours because if you've seen
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Speaker 2: the picture of the groove in his neck, the fact
16:38
Speaker 2: that the groove in his neck is stayed in his
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Speaker 2: neck it's indented, means he had to be dead for
16:43
Speaker 2: a couple of hours at least, because if you've straggled
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Speaker 2: somebody and just released them, your skin would flatten out
16:50
Speaker 2: because you still have self pressure inside. Your skin is
16:54
Speaker 2: still supple and flexible, But after a couple of hours,
16:57
Speaker 2: your skin starts to dry out and more to start
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Speaker 2: setting in. So that's how we know he was dead
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Speaker 2: for at least two hours. So why the nonsense attempt
17:07
Speaker 2: to make it look like he was revivable. Why you know,
17:10
Speaker 2: they intbated him. There's a picture of them wheeling him out,
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Speaker 2: you know, squeezing an air balloon, putting air into his lungs.
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Speaker 2: This guy's been dead for at least a couple of
17:18
Speaker 2: hours at this point in time, more so because it
17:21
Speaker 2: was a couple of hours when they found him, and
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Speaker 2: by the time they're moving him out of the prison
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Speaker 2: to go to the hospital, it's got to be another
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Speaker 2: half hour. You know, this guy's not coming back. And
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Speaker 2: then I have a photograph of him in the prison,
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Speaker 2: laying on a gurney on his back, you know, his body.
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Speaker 2: He's dead and he's wearing a hospital gown. So who
17:40
Speaker 2: decided to dress a dead body in the hospital gown?
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Speaker 2: Normally dead bodies are either in body bags or covered
17:45
Speaker 2: by a sheet. You know, they had to actually put
17:46
Speaker 2: his arms through the sleeves of his hospital gowns to
17:50
Speaker 2: kind of tie in the back. You know, it's like,
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Speaker 2: why the charade of trying to make it look like
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Speaker 2: he was you know, salvagible when he was dead for
17:58
Speaker 2: a couple of hours.
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Speaker 1: Mark, What do you make of new video that has
18:02
Speaker 1: emerged showing guards meeling around with your brother just a
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Speaker 1: few feet away in his cell instead of making their
18:13
Speaker 1: mandatory rounds. Why were they there.
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Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that question. It's a
18:20
Speaker 2: good question. There's also the issue of the head count.
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Speaker 2: You know, before Jeffrey's death there was a headcount. There
18:25
Speaker 2: was seventy three prisoners on the tier. The next day
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Speaker 2: there was seventy two prisoners on the tier according to
18:30
Speaker 2: the official headcount, and there's no record of somebody being
18:34
Speaker 2: taken off. So where who's the missing prisoner?
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Speaker 1: Mark Epstein? What is the main reason you're convinced your
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Speaker 1: brother did not commit suicide.
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Speaker 2: Well, from the scientific results of the study of the autopsy,
18:49
Speaker 2: you know, the angle of the mark on his neck
18:52
Speaker 2: is not what you would find if he was hanging
18:54
Speaker 2: the way they said he was hanging. Yeah, there's also
18:57
Speaker 2: other parts of There's like a bruise on his act
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Speaker 2: which is on the autopsy but has been ignored by
19:04
Speaker 2: the d OJ's report. They think that's a defensive wound.
19:07
Speaker 2: They think that there was a bit of a struggle
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Speaker 2: and Jeffrey was strangled, and the other things that will
19:12
Speaker 2: come out when these reports come out that will cement that.
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Speaker 1: Crime. Stores, with Nancy Gray joining us tonight. Jeffrey Epstein's
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Speaker 1: brother Mark Epstein convinced his brother did not commit suicide.
19:37
Speaker 1: You also stated that other groups have been sending you
19:41
Speaker 1: information regarding homicide.
19:44
Speaker 2: Oh, I get a lot of information. People send me
19:47
Speaker 2: a lot of information. Most of it is unverifiable, and
19:51
Speaker 2: you know that doesn't really account too much, but it's
19:54
Speaker 2: other information comes in and it's valuable. It's like the
19:57
Speaker 2: people that are studying the autopsy, you know, their opinions
20:01
Speaker 2: based on facts. I don't like to speculate on anything.
20:04
Speaker 2: I like to stick to the facts. And then, you know,
20:07
Speaker 2: comparing all of this stuff to all the literature out
20:10
Speaker 2: there and the photographs, and they're concluding that this was
20:14
Speaker 2: not suicide the way they're trying to make it off,
20:17
Speaker 2: make it out to be okay. Also, you know, Jeffrey
20:21
Speaker 2: had a hearing coming up. He was trying to appeal
20:25
Speaker 2: the bail decision, and he was putting up enough assets
20:29
Speaker 2: they would have been the highest bail ever in US history.
20:33
Speaker 2: So there's a chance maybe he would have gotten bail,
20:36
Speaker 2: which might have been unpalatable to some people. But he
20:39
Speaker 2: might have gotten bailed. Why would he kill himself? Before
20:42
Speaker 2: that hearing, which would have been in the next week
20:44
Speaker 2: or two times. You know, I because if he got bailed,
20:47
Speaker 2: he'd be living in his house. He'd have an ankle
20:50
Speaker 2: monitor on with armed guards, and you know, he'd surrender
20:52
Speaker 2: pair sports the camera set up so he couldn't go anywhere.
20:56
Speaker 2: I don't think he'd be a flight risk anyhow, And
21:00
Speaker 2: why would he kill himself before that hearing? I could see, Okay,
21:02
Speaker 2: if he had the hearing and bail was denied again
21:05
Speaker 2: and he didn't want to spend a year in jail
21:07
Speaker 2: awaiting a trial, I could see, then take yourself out. Well,
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Speaker 2: So let me be really clear. When I first heard
21:13
Speaker 2: that Jeffrey was dead from an apparent suicide, I believed it.
21:17
Speaker 2: I had no reason to doubt it. I just thought that, well,
21:21
Speaker 2: he decided to take himself out. He didn't want to
21:22
Speaker 2: be in jail. Life in jail is a pedophile, is
21:25
Speaker 2: no fun for anybody, And these are all things that
21:27
Speaker 2: might have been playing on his head. So there was
21:29
Speaker 2: no reason for me to doubt it. But when they
21:31
Speaker 2: did the autopsy the next day and the two highly
21:35
Speaker 2: qualified pathologists said they can't call it a suicide because
21:38
Speaker 2: it looks too much like a homicide. That's when I'm like, well,
21:42
Speaker 2: what's going on here? And that's when we started looking
21:44
Speaker 2: into things. And the more we look, the more it
21:47
Speaker 2: shows that wasn't a suicide. I say with Cash Patel
21:50
Speaker 2: in his recent testimony, he said that when he was
21:53
Speaker 2: asked about this, he said, you know his suicide when
21:55
Speaker 2: you see one. That's what he said. And I actually laughed.
21:59
Speaker 2: I thought, how many suicides as has actually seen? That
22:02
Speaker 2: makes him the expert. Also, he was not there, he
22:06
Speaker 2: didn't see the body, he wasn't at the crime scene.
22:09
Speaker 2: So just what the hell is he talking about.
22:11
Speaker 1: We have been told over and over and over no
22:14
Speaker 1: one had access to Jeffrey Epstein's cell at the time
22:18
Speaker 1: he was killed. I want you to look at video.
22:22
Speaker 1: And this video is not something that crime stories came
22:26
Speaker 1: up with. This is directly from FBI files that the
22:32
Speaker 1: public forced the government to release. And in the FBI
22:37
Speaker 1: files it states that this is an independent review of footage.
22:43
Speaker 1: It confirmed Epstein was in his cell. End quote, nobody
22:47
Speaker 1: entered the tears. But yet here we see a quote
22:53
Speaker 1: flash of orange. An FBI agent noted the quote flash
22:59
Speaker 1: of orange ascending going up the stairs and state it
23:02
Speaker 1: could possibly be an inmate escorted up to the tier,
23:07
Speaker 1: and in the same document, the FBI says it is
23:11
Speaker 1: possibly staff carrying inmate linen or betting up the stairs. Well,
23:18
Speaker 1: I can tell you this right now. Employees of the
23:22
Speaker 1: jail do not wear prison orange. That did not happen.
23:26
Speaker 1: I'd like to see the video one more time. It's
23:29
Speaker 1: amazing to me that in the Epstein files it is
23:34
Speaker 1: stated that no one had access going up or down
23:38
Speaker 1: to Epstein's tier. Yet here we see it with our
23:43
Speaker 1: own eyes straight out to investigative journalist author of Down
23:47
Speaker 1: the Hill, Susan Hendricks, where did the video come from?
23:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, it came from surveillance inside of the prison where
23:55
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein was, and that footage came from a little
23:58
Speaker 3: before ten. They noticed that, and the two guards just
24:03
Speaker 3: coincidentally stopped looking in on Epstein from ten forty to
24:07
Speaker 3: six thirty am.
24:08
Speaker 1: So what is that? What is that?
24:10
Speaker 4: And the female security guard was questioned, could that be
24:13
Speaker 4: you with Lenin's She said, no, that's the shift before us.
24:16
Speaker 4: That wasn't me with Lenon's. Well it's something, who is
24:19
Speaker 4: it and what is it?
24:22
Speaker 1: Well, obviously it's a person. So I've got the answer
24:25
Speaker 1: as to what I know. It's not a guard because
24:29
Speaker 1: guards do not wear the same outfit as the inmates
24:34
Speaker 1: in any see, I mean straight out to doctor Dwayne
24:37
Speaker 1: Hendricks joining US former warden at MDC in Brooklyn, also
24:42
Speaker 1: Warden Sheridan, Oregon, former senior warden US Department of Justice, founder,
24:47
Speaker 1: president a New Daylight Foundation, and author. You certainly are
24:52
Speaker 1: busy of who are you? See it? Say it, seize it?
24:57
Speaker 1: Doctor Hendrix, Please give me the reader's digest version of
25:02
Speaker 1: why employees at the jail do not wear prison.
25:06
Speaker 5: Orange, simply because if everybody wore the same outfit, then
25:11
Speaker 5: inmates will be running in and out of jail and
25:13
Speaker 5: you wouldn't be able to account for the individuals that
25:16
Speaker 5: are in your custody. So that's the basic, simple reason
25:19
Speaker 5: why staff are not wearing the same clothing as those
25:25
Speaker 5: inmates that are incarcerated, and.
25:28
Speaker 1: That is sp standard operating procedure across the country. You
25:33
Speaker 1: may be at the federal pen, you may be in supermax,
25:37
Speaker 1: you may be in the Maybury County Jail with Otis
25:42
Speaker 1: and Barney and Andy. No prison employee wears the same
25:47
Speaker 1: thing as the inmates because the inmate and the jailers
25:53
Speaker 1: have to be spotted visually immediately if there is a
25:56
Speaker 1: jail uprising, if there is a lock down, if there
25:59
Speaker 1: is an a gate, you have to be able to
26:03
Speaker 1: immediately identify who is who? Right? Yes, yes, so bottom line,
26:09
Speaker 1: Doctor Hendrix, is there any way in H E Double
26:13
Speaker 1: L that that is a jailer going up the stairs
26:17
Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein's tier dressed in orange.
26:21
Speaker 5: No, to take your words out of your mouth, there
26:23
Speaker 5: is no way in HT double L that that would
26:25
Speaker 5: be a staff member dressed as an inmate. The only
26:29
Speaker 5: way that that would even possibly occur, and that would
26:31
Speaker 5: be in another unit where staff are doing some sort
26:35
Speaker 5: of scenario, some sort of training or something like that.
26:38
Speaker 6: But obviously that wasn't.
26:40
Speaker 1: Ten o'clock at night. They're having a staff training episode.
26:44
Speaker 1: What are you put him up?
26:46
Speaker 6: No, I'm going to just.
26:47
Speaker 1: Throw you in the pot with all the conspiracy theories.
26:51
Speaker 5: Trying to say, is the only time staff would even
26:54
Speaker 5: dress like an inmate is if they were doing some
26:56
Speaker 5: sort of training scenario.
26:57
Speaker 6: But they wouldn't be doing this training.
26:59
Speaker 5: Scenario in the Special Home at ten forty at night
27:02
Speaker 5: on a Saturday or Friday, whatever, day, that was whatever
27:05
Speaker 5: weekend that was when he actually allegedly committed suicide.
27:08
Speaker 6: So, no, that is not a staff member.
27:10
Speaker 1: Hendrix, Do you know what you just did? You just
27:15
Speaker 1: spoon said with a silver spoon all the conspiracy theorists
27:20
Speaker 1: out there. Thanks. Okay, this was not a training activity.
27:24
Speaker 1: I don't know where he even got that no offense,
27:26
Speaker 1: but that that's crazy talk a training you know what.
27:30
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you sit there and think about what
27:32
Speaker 1: you just said. That is not an employee. I want
27:34
Speaker 1: to see it one more time, please, that is an inmate?
27:39
Speaker 1: What inmate? Who? As Susan Hendricks just said, who is it?
27:44
Speaker 1: Someone dressed like an inmate? Is at an inmate? Is
27:48
Speaker 1: it the inmate that threatened to murder Jeffrey Epstein in
27:51
Speaker 1: the past. Well, according to the FBI, we don't see
27:55
Speaker 1: anything that's not real. That didn't happen. Okay, back to
27:59
Speaker 1: Susan Hendrix, I want to talk to you about those
28:02
Speaker 1: damning Google searches on the jailers. Weren't place computer right
28:09
Speaker 1: there around the corner of Jeffrey Epstein's dead body? What happened?
28:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was five point forty two and one of
28:18
Speaker 3: the guards Google search latest on Epstein in jail.
28:23
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, they're literally fifteen feet from where they were supposed
28:27
Speaker 4: to be walking by doing searches. Well, she said, I
28:30
Speaker 4: don't remember doing Google searches that day. That's weird, that's
28:34
Speaker 4: Rosha said, that's odd. It's easy. I would think to
28:38
Speaker 4: be a conspiracy theorist here because it's one thing after another,
28:42
Speaker 4: and the two guards there who were supposed to be working,
28:45
Speaker 4: there's a two hour chunk that they were found sleeping.
28:47
Speaker 4: I've worked overnights in the news business. You don't just
28:50
Speaker 4: doze off. Something's odd there, and I could see how
28:52
Speaker 4: conspiracy theorists would run with this. In the cell, Nancy Coomni,
28:56
Speaker 4: the linens are there, the orange linens. I was thinking
28:59
Speaker 4: the blur was some one carrying extra linits to Jeffrey
29:02
Speaker 4: Epstein to be able to do what he did.
29:04
Speaker 1: If he did it well, according to the jailers, that
29:06
Speaker 1: did not happen. No extra ones were taken to him.
29:09
Speaker 1: To Angelous joining us high profile lawyer out of Palm
29:12
Speaker 1: Beach with this whole thing blue wide open with Epstein's
29:15
Speaker 1: first conviction for child abuse sex with children, partner Circe
29:20
Speaker 1: Law Firm, Palm Beach former felony prosecutor. She worked in
29:25
Speaker 1: the Palm Beach County State's Attorney's office, where Epstein was prosecuted.
29:30
Speaker 1: I'm happy to say she had nothing to do with
29:32
Speaker 1: that debacle. Angel Lewis. When somebody says to me, Wow,
29:38
Speaker 1: that's weird. That's like waving a red flag in front
29:42
Speaker 1: of a bull, I want an answer. Why was Tova
29:47
Speaker 1: Noel that's the name of the jailer googling Jeff Epstein
29:53
Speaker 1: behind bars just before his body was found, and then
29:57
Speaker 1: ten minutes later, why And then she says, Wow, how'd
30:00
Speaker 1: that get on there? I don't remember that happening.
30:02
Speaker 7: Bs Nancy, you are one hundred percent right.
30:06
Speaker 1: And to make matters.
30:08
Speaker 7: Even worse, not only was she making these very strange
30:13
Speaker 7: Google searches, but the timing is key because at those
30:18
Speaker 7: very moments she was supposed to be doing rounds and
30:22
Speaker 7: actually checking in on him, and she didn't. This was
30:27
Speaker 7: the perfect storm of failures that is so crazy it
30:33
Speaker 7: is almost unbelievable. And that it's the failure to check,
30:39
Speaker 7: it's the lack of inmate that was in there despite
30:42
Speaker 7: their being orders, the camera system failure at the very
30:46
Speaker 7: time of his death, he's left alone. This is all certainly,
30:53
Speaker 7: certainly the foundation for many conspiracy theories, but it really
30:58
Speaker 7: gives you pause here. And I think we have to
31:01
Speaker 7: keep in mind too. Any one of these things would
31:05
Speaker 7: be suspicious, but they all happen simon simultaneously. What are
31:10
Speaker 7: the odds of that?
31:12
Speaker 1: Also, there is a matter of the missing noose. I
31:17
Speaker 1: have been in many many jails. I've been in GV jails,
31:21
Speaker 1: local jails when people are waiting trial. I've been in
31:26
Speaker 1: maximum security facilities and every CI correctional institute between. I
31:35
Speaker 1: have never seen the wreck like what was in Jeffrey
31:39
Speaker 1: Epstein's jail cell. This is simply disallowed, doctor Hendrix.
31:45
Speaker 6: Yes it is.
31:46
Speaker 1: This is a hot mess.
31:48
Speaker 5: I mean, first of all, he had put him up.
31:54
Speaker 1: Are you smoking tonight? Is mess? Yes, you don't say
31:59
Speaker 1: something like that under oath. What that is is a
32:02
Speaker 1: security risk. That is a security and a flight risk.
32:08
Speaker 1: I mean, getting down on it, man.
32:11
Speaker 5: You're absolutely they took the other inmate. His cellmate left
32:16
Speaker 5: either earlier in the day or the day before, so
32:19
Speaker 5: I see that they took the person's mattress out. So
32:22
Speaker 5: there was no way, no reason for Epstein to have
32:26
Speaker 5: all these meds and all the other materials on one
32:29
Speaker 5: on top of the cell, and then all these extra linens.
32:33
Speaker 5: Someone gave him extra linens. There is no way possible
32:37
Speaker 5: that you know. And I looked at some of the
32:39
Speaker 5: documentation in the Epstein files with their staff are saying no,
32:41
Speaker 5: I didn't give him any extra linars of this and
32:43
Speaker 5: that and the other. Someone gave him some extra materials
32:48
Speaker 5: to have all this garb and trash and everything else.
32:51
Speaker 5: I mean, this is this is the nastiest you know, doctor.
32:55
Speaker 6: Hendrix, I've seen in my in my life. In correct,
32:57
Speaker 6: do you.
32:58
Speaker 1: Know what it looks like. It looks to me that
33:02
Speaker 1: someone has just thrown all of these linens, all of
33:07
Speaker 1: this into his room haphazardly, because an inmate would not
33:13
Speaker 1: be allowed to have all this in the room, and
33:16
Speaker 1: it's a security risk to him and other inmates. It's
33:20
Speaker 1: a flight risk. I mean, how do I know he's
33:23
Speaker 1: not going to tie it all together and go down
33:25
Speaker 1: the side of the building for Pete's sake. That may
33:28
Speaker 1: be impossible at NBC. But that said, that's just one
33:31
Speaker 1: example of why inmates are not allowed to have all
33:35
Speaker 1: this in the room, which leads me to a conclusion
33:39
Speaker 1: or a question was it all in the room? When
33:42
Speaker 1: did it all get there? Before or after? His body
33:45
Speaker 1: is found? Because Susan Hendrix nobody found the noose, did they?
33:50
Speaker 1: How can that be? The man is strangled dead, somebody
33:54
Speaker 1: took the noose off of his neck? Where is it?
33:58
Speaker 1: It wasn't there when he got to the medical ER's office,
34:00
Speaker 1: So where is it?
34:02
Speaker 3: So one of the guards, Michael Thomas, Nancy went in
34:05
Speaker 3: and said, it took all of his strength to get
34:08
Speaker 3: that noose away from Jeffrey Epstein's throat, to get that off.
34:13
Speaker 3: Then when the female came in nova, she said, I
34:16
Speaker 3: didn't see any noose around his neck. Then when he's
34:19
Speaker 3: brought to the medical examiner, she said it was a
34:22
Speaker 3: bare neck and she was handed something like here it is.
34:24
Speaker 4: This is the news that she said. There were no
34:26
Speaker 4: tears in it, that it seemed just like kind of
34:29
Speaker 4: a round circle. Here it is. This is what was
34:31
Speaker 4: around his neck? Where is it? Did that guard Michael
34:34
Speaker 4: Thomas rip it off the neck? He won't comment now
34:37
Speaker 4: about it, but they had a plead deal. There's so
34:41
Speaker 4: many unanswered questions, Nancy, and that's.
34:43
Speaker 1: A human life.
34:44
Speaker 2: Where is.
34:50
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace straight out to a special
34:58
Speaker 1: guest joining us tonight. Doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Kendall Crowns
35:04
Speaker 1: is the chief medical examiner for Terrance County, Texas. That's
35:08
Speaker 1: Fort Worth. Never a lack of business in the Morgue
35:13
Speaker 1: at Fort Worth. He is the star of hit podcast
35:17
Speaker 1: Mayhem in the Morgue, and he is an esteemed lecturer
35:23
Speaker 1: at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall Crowns,
35:29
Speaker 1: from the get go, I have said, the wound going
35:33
Speaker 1: straight across his neck is not consistent with a hanging,
35:38
Speaker 1: even a hanging from the back of your bed. But
35:42
Speaker 1: according to what Epstein's brother Mark tells me, the initial autopsy,
35:50
Speaker 1: the medical examiner said, point blank, it looks like a suicide.
35:55
Speaker 1: It could be a suicide, and they delayed room, I
36:02
Speaker 1: want to hear your analysis. Take your time.
36:04
Speaker 6: Well, let's first start with the delayed ruling.
36:06
Speaker 8: Anytime a medical examiner DeLay's ruling means they're thinking about
36:10
Speaker 8: the investigative information and trying to make a decision that
36:14
Speaker 8: they didn't just say, oh, this is totally a hanging suicide.
36:18
Speaker 8: There was more to it that they were thinking over.
36:20
Speaker 8: The other problem is is looking at the photograph that
36:24
Speaker 8: a hanging, if it's a suspension type ligature hanging, it
36:28
Speaker 8: will pull up. The ligature will actually pull up and
36:31
Speaker 8: create a V shaped structure.
36:33
Speaker 6: On the net.
36:34
Speaker 8: It will also slide up underneath the chin as well.
36:38
Speaker 8: You're not seeing that in the pictures. What you're seeing
36:41
Speaker 8: is it's pulling straight back and it's almost as if
36:46
Speaker 8: someone is pulling it from behind, crushing his neck. And
36:50
Speaker 8: then you add on to the fact that he has
36:53
Speaker 8: the fractures of the thyroid bones, the fractures of the hyoid,
36:56
Speaker 8: which are very unlike hanging.
37:00
Speaker 6: They can't occur, but not to that extent. So you've got.
37:03
Speaker 8: Multiple fractures of the highwaid bone of the thyroidcarlage fracture
37:08
Speaker 8: of the highway bone, a horizontal ligature impression, it's not
37:12
Speaker 8: tipping up. It all doesn't fit with a suspension type hanging.
37:17
Speaker 8: It kind of fits with someone pulling it from behind.
37:20
Speaker 8: And also there's some claim that you know, it's a
37:24
Speaker 8: cloth ligature and he.
37:26
Speaker 6: Could have leaned into it.
37:28
Speaker 8: Again, if he's leaning into it, he weighs one hundred
37:30
Speaker 8: and ninety six pounds, you know it wouldn't have caused
37:34
Speaker 8: those type of injuries we're seeing, it's all very suspicious.
37:38
Speaker 8: And even looking at the picture itself of the ligature,
37:42
Speaker 8: it has a.
37:43
Speaker 6: Pattern to it that looks wavy.
37:46
Speaker 8: And if it's this cloth that keeps being shown in
37:49
Speaker 8: the pictures, I don't see the wavingess to the pattern
37:52
Speaker 8: on the ligature that matches to that cloth.
37:56
Speaker 6: So it's all very very suspicious.
38:00
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendle Crowns, you got ahead of me when you're
38:02
Speaker 1: talking about the wavy nature. Could you repeat that very slowly?
38:07
Speaker 8: So when you're looking at the deep ligature furrow in
38:11
Speaker 8: the picture on the I think it's on the left.
38:15
Speaker 8: If you look at the kind of the black and
38:17
Speaker 8: the red to it, it has a waviness look to
38:20
Speaker 8: it that doesn't fit with that cloth type ligature. Also
38:24
Speaker 8: with cloth ligatures that are usually soft and they don't
38:27
Speaker 8: dig into the neck as much as you're seeing there.
38:30
Speaker 8: And if it was indeed that ligature, it to me
38:33
Speaker 8: looks like it's pulled very tightly. And then the knot
38:37
Speaker 8: itself is not a slip knot, so it wouldn't have
38:39
Speaker 8: tightly wrapped around his neck.
38:41
Speaker 6: It's a thick knot.
38:42
Speaker 8: So there's so many inconsistencies with a hanging suicide that
38:47
Speaker 8: it makes me pause too and want more information, see
38:51
Speaker 8: more pictures to make a decision, much like the medical
38:54
Speaker 8: examiners did in New York. They took their time to
38:57
Speaker 8: make the decision. So it makes me question of what
39:00
Speaker 8: were they thinking and why did they take so much
39:03
Speaker 8: time to call it a suicide.
39:05
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, we were just showing a photo of
39:09
Speaker 1: the back of Epstein's neck. What could account for that?
39:16
Speaker 8: So again, it's to me, that looks like if it
39:19
Speaker 8: was a hanging ligature.
39:20
Speaker 6: You wouldn't see that in the back of the neck.
39:23
Speaker 8: Because the ligature would be pulling up and creating this
39:27
Speaker 8: kind of vis exactly shape on the back that to
39:30
Speaker 8: me looks like it's being pulled by someone from behind,
39:35
Speaker 8: creating those abrasions on the side of the neck that
39:37
Speaker 8: you're seeing in those pictures.
39:40
Speaker 6: And then you add on the fact that his.
39:42
Speaker 8: Wrists have bruises on him, you gotta wonder if he
39:44
Speaker 8: was being restrained while he was being strangled. I mean,
39:47
Speaker 8: there's a lot.
39:48
Speaker 1: Of hold on, hold on, I don't want that to
39:51
Speaker 1: get lost in the sauce. Marks on the wrist explained.
39:57
Speaker 8: So there's described in the autops here or two contusions
40:01
Speaker 8: on the wrist. So these contusions on the wrists, what
40:06
Speaker 8: are they from? Are is he handcuffed? Has he been tied?
40:09
Speaker 8: I mean, are his hands restrained in some way while
40:13
Speaker 8: they're strangling them.
40:14
Speaker 6: It's all again very suspect.
40:17
Speaker 1: Doctor Kimler Crown's you have handled many many homicides by
40:24
Speaker 1: ligatures strangulation. You have handled many many suicides by hanging.
40:29
Speaker 1: And when you say it kind of looks like ligatuist strangulation. See,
40:36
Speaker 1: I can't put you on the stand if that's what
40:40
Speaker 1: you're gonna say, it kind of looks it does look
40:43
Speaker 1: like ligatures strangulation. I'm a JD, not an MD, and
40:47
Speaker 1: even I could see that on day one with a
40:51
Speaker 1: hanging a suicide, you have a smiley face. You call
40:54
Speaker 1: it a v you have from here like that, that's
40:57
Speaker 1: what you have done. Closed with legature strangulation from behind,
41:04
Speaker 1: you often see a pullback and you see a straight mark.
41:09
Speaker 1: There's no way that that cloth noose left that mark
41:14
Speaker 1: on his neck. That did not happen. It doesn't kind
41:18
Speaker 1: of look like it.
41:20
Speaker 8: It is three with you, Nancy, but you are limited
41:23
Speaker 8: by the information that were provided. I would like to
41:26
Speaker 8: see more information before I could give a definitive.
41:29
Speaker 1: Bags of shredded documents. Multiple cash deposits into these jailers accounts.
41:36
Speaker 1: What first tell me about the money, Susan Hendricks.
41:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, twelve cash deposits between April twenty eighteen and July thirtieth,
41:45
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen in one of the guard's bank accounts. To me,
41:49
Speaker 4: the screens incentive. One of the last payments was for
41:54
Speaker 4: five thousand dollars and it was flagged by the FBI.
41:58
Speaker 4: She's on probation now to avoid j To me, it
42:00
Speaker 4: points to incentive on the reason why you would do it.
42:03
Speaker 1: And it's not just five thousand dollars, it's five thousand
42:06
Speaker 1: dollars in cash. Who goes around and I'm sure there
42:10
Speaker 1: are people, but who who goes around with five thousand
42:14
Speaker 1: dollars cash to put in this jailer? The one who
42:18
Speaker 1: was looking up Jeffrey Epstein in jail the latest, just
42:24
Speaker 1: moments before his body's found. The one that swears she
42:28
Speaker 1: didn't carry linen in I mean, it's just too much
42:33
Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned Psychoalys out of
42:37
Speaker 1: the LA jurisdiction. She is the author of deal Breakers.
42:40
Speaker 1: You can see her now on Peacock and Bravo, and
42:44
Speaker 1: you can find her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Cash deposits,
42:49
Speaker 1: the last one five grand. Now here's the tricky thing.
42:53
Speaker 1: If somebody said, hey, who put one thousand dollars in
42:56
Speaker 1: your account? I could look at it and go, oh,
42:57
Speaker 1: I know what that was. That was the reef on
43:00
Speaker 1: first blah blah blah. But we still don't have an
43:03
Speaker 1: answer as to these multiple deposits, including five grand and
43:09
Speaker 1: cash into her account.
43:11
Speaker 9: Hopefully, Nancy, there were cameras in whatever branch of the
43:14
Speaker 9: bank that cash was deposited, but Nancy, so many things
43:17
Speaker 9: don't make sense from a psychological point of.
43:19
Speaker 1: View, Tova.
43:21
Speaker 9: This guard was searching not only Jeffrey Epstein, but as
43:26
Speaker 9: you can see on the computer search USA jobs, Ashley furniture.
43:32
Speaker 9: So it makes me wonder if she was already planning
43:35
Speaker 9: on going to a new job or to make a
43:37
Speaker 9: huge furniture purchase. So that's suspicious. The fact that there's
43:42
Speaker 9: all the medication right on top of his bunk bed.
43:46
Speaker 9: You do not leave medication in any jail person sell
43:52
Speaker 9: because they could overdose or suicide. Medications like that are
43:56
Speaker 9: dispensed by some kind of medical staff. All the linens
44:02
Speaker 9: that are thrown in there, it sounds like somebody's like
44:05
Speaker 9: kind of stirred up the room in some way so
44:08
Speaker 9: as to camouflage what might have already happened. In other words,
44:12
Speaker 9: they're staging it to look like Epstein was messy, but
44:16
Speaker 9: in fact, it looks like there was a struggle. To me, Nancy,
44:19
Speaker 9: you know, Nancy, you and I have seen the inside
44:22
Speaker 9: of Zoro Ranch, of the Island, of the beautiful home
44:28
Speaker 9: in Manhattan. Those houses were spectacular and well appointed and
44:35
Speaker 9: neat You cannot tell me that Jeffrey Epstein would have
44:39
Speaker 9: allowed his own cell to look like that. Everything would
44:42
Speaker 9: have been neatly folded, the bed would have been made.
44:45
Speaker 9: And in terms of suicidality, Nancy, narcissists and zosipaths only
44:50
Speaker 9: suicide them suicide if they feel ashamed shame drives the suicide,
44:57
Speaker 9: or if they are afraid of consequences. Epstein never felt
45:01
Speaker 9: a shame. She never ever, ever was remorseful for his actions.
45:07
Speaker 9: And I believe that he probably thought that he would
45:09
Speaker 9: get out of this one just like he got out
45:11
Speaker 9: of the prior fourteen months sentence. So this does not
45:15
Speaker 9: paint a picture of somebody who would have killed himself
45:19
Speaker 9: or of a prison guard who was really jealously zeallessly
45:23
Speaker 9: guarding the inmate.
45:25
Speaker 1: Another issue regarding the jailer Toba Noel. Noel has been
45:31
Speaker 1: called to come and testify in front of Congress, and
45:36
Speaker 1: they have directed that if she doesn't come, she will
45:40
Speaker 1: be subpoened. That said, I want to look back in
45:46
Speaker 1: on what I'm seeing in Epstein's cell to Dave Matt,
45:50
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter joining us, Dave Mac, take a
45:53
Speaker 1: look at this photo. What am I seeing, Dave Mac?
45:57
Speaker 10: You know, beyond all of the orange sheets and the
46:00
Speaker 10: mattress on the ground, you're actually seeing cords and hoses
46:05
Speaker 10: from Jeffrey Epstein's CPAP machine that was allowed in his cell.
46:11
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, Dave Matt, is that inmates have to
46:16
Speaker 1: use a spork. You know what that is, and it's plastic,
46:20
Speaker 1: it's a spoon fork because they cannot have a regular
46:24
Speaker 1: fork or knife because they might kill each other. I say,
46:30
Speaker 1: there's no way that those cords and hoses were allowed
46:33
Speaker 1: in his jail cell. And if they were another problem,
46:39
Speaker 1: if you know or think you know anything regarding this case,
46:43
Speaker 1: Please dial eight hundred calls. FBI Nancy Grace signing off,
46:49
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,