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Unleashing the Dawg - A Conversation With Nate Griffin · Coaches At Crown Brew Getting Coffee

• 0:13
  Welcome back to Coaches at Crown Brew Getting Coffee. It's been a while. We've been on a little hiatus, so we're going to knock some rust off today, and we're going to talk football with an SIU assistant coach, Nate Griffin. I want to thank Crown Brew, as always. I know they're not on summer hours yet, so we're here with the doors closed and it's quiet, and we appreciate them making adjustments for us to be here today. Ross and Abby are here, of course, and I appreciate all they do in Swinford Media.
• 0:40
  They also do Swinford wedding videography and photography. So if you have those kinds of needs coming up, it's getting wedding season, the summer and the fall coming up. If you've got wedding needs for photography and videography, they're the ones to see. You can learn more on their website.
• 0:55
  and follow them on social media, and I think their work speeds for itself. Adrenaline Fundraising, my buddies Jeff and Matt are the best at helping you raise money. You've got programs coming up in the fall of 2026. Summertime's a great time to knock out some of those fundraising needs, and they can take care and get you scheduled for the fall. But they take all the pressure off of you, and they make sure that it's done and done right. They're professionals. They are the best. I want to thank my buddy Tony Gooch at Marion Plumbing for commercial and residential plumbing needs.
• 1:25
  tony's your guy not only is he great at what he does he's a local guy
• 1:30
  And beloved by this community and a great family. So see Tony Gooch at Marion Plumbing. My guest today, as I said, is SIU Offensive Assistant Coach Nate Griffin. Nate, welcome. Thank you. Let's talk about your bio a little bit. I'm going to run through it. Just talk about some things here. You came to Carbondale from Minnesota where you spent five seasons in the Big Ten on the Golden Gopher staff. You serve as a quality control assistant. And we may need you to explain that to the audience. What exactly that entails on offense.
• 1:57
  You work with the opponent scouting. I guess it's self-explanatory or self-scouting, day-to-day operations, a lot of film study, right? Oh, yeah. Learn a lot about the game then. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He came to Minnesota from Truman State, where he coached the defensive line in 2011. In addition to working with Jerry Kill at Minnesota, he worked with Kill as a graduate assistant at Northern in 2008 and 2009, working with running backs and fullbacks. He had a stint in Northern Colorado in 06 and 07, coached one year at Poudre.
• 2:26
  That's how you say it, Poudre High School in Fort Collins, Colorado. He played and graduated from the University of Idaho as a Vandal. And let's get started, Coach. Tell me about where you're from and how this all got started. Yeah, so born and raised in Colorado. Okay. I was born in Fort Collins where Colorado State is, that's CSU. Grew up in a town outside of it, about 10 miles outside called Wellington.
• 2:53
  I've been there my whole life, right? All my family still lives back in Fort Collins area, you know, so that's where we go to visit and all that. All my family, my dad and my uncles went to high school at Poudre High School, right? So, Cache La Poudre River is one of the rivers that's up there in the mountains. It's in the foothills. So, the Poudre Impalas, right? I'm going to assume that's a beautiful country. It is.
• 3:18
  it is i'd say god's country i always tell people that right but everybody says that where they're from but it really is colorado is a special place it is uh you know moving out here to the midwest you don't know you gotta get used to where the direction in colorado you look to the mountains that's west right so you're used to seeing the landmarks but like i said grew up there um typical childhood you know uh played a lot of sports um
• 3:46
  Fell in love with football. My dad played at the University of Colorado. He was a Buffalo. Really? He was a Buffalo. Yep. He won't ever talk about it, but he had short stints in some training camps with the Broncos and the Chiefs, you know. Oh, I'd talk about that. He does. He's very modest. But, you know, being in the profession, it's hard just to get a look. Yeah. Let alone get into a camp. That's an honor just to be invited to anything. He played in the Orange Bowl against Ohio State back in the day. Who did he play for? Who was his coach? Coach Mallory.
• 4:13
  Okay. Yeah, so the head coach at Indiana State. That's his dad. Yeah, yeah. That Mallory family is pretty big. It is, it is. So, you know, always had the dream of playing college football. My brother played football. Like I said, all my uncles. One of my uncles was on the state championship team for our high school. That was the only state champion. So there's some lineage there, some, you know, history. And, you know, I got my shot to go play at the University of Idaho.
• 4:41
  I wanted to be a Buffalo so bad because that was my dad, right? And so, back then, there wasn't a whole lot of camps. We had.. You could go to camps but it wasn't like it was now. We had.. CSU had a big seven on seven camp which I'm talking about hundreds of schools. And then Colorado would put on a seven on seven camp and they had an indie camp. And that was the only school I wanted to go to. So, you know, went there, had an opportunity to walk on there and offered to go walk on.
• 5:10
  And at the time, the offensive coordinator was Tom Cable. And he got the head job at Idaho. So when he got the head job, he asked the running backs coach anybody that I should take. And he gave him my name. And that's how I ended up at Idaho. I had no idea who the Vandals, Idaho, anything like that, right? And so that's how I ended up at the University of Idaho. How did you like Idaho? I loved it. It was, you know, I think any time.
• 5:38
  It was all I wanted to do was it was a goal of mine to pay for my own school through scholarship. At the time, they were FBS, play Division I football, have a coach believe in you. And it was walking into the Kivy Dome. It was the coolest thing I've ever seen, right? A dome, all that type of stuff. And Moscow is very similar in the sense of as far as SIU when you get on campus, small college town, small college community.
• 6:08
  college students. Summer's the time. Everybody's gone except for the college students. So, it was that. And you're ten miles away from Washington State. So, Wazoo and Idaho are back to back, right close. So, I mean, it's a great college atmosphere. I loved it. Yeah. I had a good friend that worked at Idaho for several years, Rick Darnell. And he used to talk about how beautiful it was out there. It was a big change from southern Illinois. But do you miss the mountains? Because you've been in mountainous areas most of your life. I do. I mean, I didn't really.
• 6:37
  People always ask, did you ski? I was like, no. The only time I went skiing is we went to Wyoming to ski Snowy Range because it was cheaper. Skiing is not cheap, you know what I mean? So it was like, hey, we'd go to Snowy Range in Wyoming. But, you know, miss them. But besides looking at them, not too much. But you get to go back to see your family a lot? All the time, yeah. Once a year or so, at least we try to. And so it is, I always get to see them.
• 7:00
  So, from what position did you play? I was a fullback. Fullback. Yeah. Have you been mostly on the, I noticed in your bio, you've been on the offensive side of the ball, really, except for that one stint as a D-line coach. Yeah. Right? Was that just because they needed someone to coach the D-line? That is, you know, honestly, a blessing in disguise. So, I ended up at Truman State because of Coach Tuke at SEMO. He knew the head coach at the time, who was Greg Nesbitt, was a...
• 7:29
  long-time Hall of Fame high school coach in Missouri, Columbia Hickman. And his retirement job was coaching college football. So, he coached at Truman State when they were Northwest, Missouri State when they were a powerhouse. That's right. And so, he got the job. Tuke knew him. Just like anything, it's about connections. You know, I was done with my GA position at NIU at the time. He said, hey, I got a possibility for you to be interested. Absolutely.
• 7:56
  i thought it was offense coach nez calls me up he's talking to me you know talking about truman this and that he's like you know in the d line and i got quiet he's like you're all right it's like coach you know i'm an often like i'm an offensive guy yeah and he's like don't worry about that too said you can coach you can teach we'll get you right and uh the biggest lesson i learned from that is nez always said is like i'm going to teach you what you need to teach them if you can teach and motivate and get these guys you'll be fine he said by year three you'll
• 8:25
  it'll be like you coach d-line your whole life so it was a big eye-opener for me in the sense of never and i tell this to young coaches don't put yourself in a box right we all do the same thing we're all we're all teaching these guys trying to build their confidence it's all the same language hands eyes feet leverage uh alignment assignment technique you know obviously you get better as you do a repetition but it taught me a lot as a young coach and it gave me that confidence
• 8:51
  I could coach any position, you know, similar to here, running backs, tight ends, whatever. You put me in there and I'll get it done. I think it is so true. And I love that you brought that up, that if you can coach, you can coach. And the position is not something that you may be inclined initially, but you can learn it because if you're coaching is teaching and teaching is coaching. And I think that's so cool that you have that open mind about it. And I love that he told you.
• 9:17
  you can do this yeah just i'm going to teach you what to do and you go out and repetition just like the players have to learn it so do you and you can do that that's really cool because i i have found that and i've noticed among the college coaches how often times they've coached multiple things you know talking to pat poor he had coached quarterbacks he coached receivers he had coached running backs then i find out these coaches have coached tennis or they coached golf and sometimes to a high level because they can coach correct you know it's great and i had to teach a class
• 9:47
  Oh, yeah. At Truman State, you know, that was one of the big things is you had to take, you had to teach a class. I had, like, intro to physical education or something like that. Yeah. So twice a week. Yeah. Game plan, I had to stop. Guys, I got class, you know. So that was, that was an eye-opener. That was one of those things, how bad do you want to coach college football? How bad do you want it? Yeah. So how long were you there? 11 months. 11 months. Not even a year. Yeah. So when Killer got the job in Minnesota, you know.
• 10:14
  We got a call, and it's funny how it went down. It happened literally. We were getting ready to go home to Colorado for Christmas break. He got the job. We got a call, and my wife was like, we're taking this because she has a lot of friends. You know, when I was a GA at NIU, she got close with a lot of the wives and stuff, and we knew them. And, you know, Coach Killing that staff, it's like a family. And so it was like, no brainer, we got to go back. So I had to call Coach Nez, which.
• 10:43
  was hard because he gave me my shot i learned so much from him i grew so much i mean um like we just talked about just giving me a chance you know an opportunity and it was hard and because i went from having my own room to being a coach i was going to ask you that to going to back then the quality control the best way to describe it was your glorified ga you know you get your full time basically you got a salary and benefits but at that point in time you couldn't be on the field
• 11:12
  you know you couldn't because they still at the time had the limit of guys who could be on the field so right i was really just like the offensive right hand man just whatever they needed cutouts breaking down film working side by side with the gas of getting everything done so and i don't want people who who maybe not understand that position but i i don't want to diminish the value of that oh yeah it is a huge deal it is i mean that's where game plans and that's where you know analysis of
• 11:40
  Who do we need to run at? Who do we need to run away from? How do we, you know, who are we going to game plan against? I mean, that whole thing, that analysis, especially at that level, is so huge. That, and you just talk about being able to operate practice-wise as simple as, like, making scripts. Yes. And making sure everything's on there. Defensives, all that type of stuff. We were a banded system, so everything was signaled in. We called from the band.
• 12:05
  So we had to make those bands for every practice, number every single play. So you did that? We did that. I did that. And then, you know, we had to do all that for every game, you know, and it got pretty extensive. I mean, it was. There's a lot of trust in that coach. Oh, yeah. I mean, to put that into your hands. You're talking about the first quarter of every game I'm praying, you know.
• 12:26
  Coach Lime Grover's calling out personnel, then the band number, Coach Reed's giving it. And I'm looking at it real quick, like, okay, that's what he wanted, you know. Yeah, and oh, I hope it works. Exactly, yeah. Did you take some heat at times? Did you get some out of boys? There was one time against Ohio State, whatever happened, I don't know what it was, a number got wrong with the band. It was a bad play. Just one time? One time. That's pretty good. I think that's pretty good. And it was, you know, I was.
• 12:53
  Made aware of it by the head man and coach line Grover looked at me and said, it's okay. Yeah, I know. One out of however many times you're good. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of grace in that. But emotions run high a lot of times as a head coach.
• 13:10
  You lash out at someone that maybe didn't deserve it. And you know it's not personal. No, no, no, it's not. And I think people see that or hear about that, and they think, well, that's not just part of it. You know, coaches know that. But that's really a cool story. So how long did you do that? Five years. I was in Minnesota. You learned a lot of football, didn't you? A lot of football, yep. What's the biggest takeaway from that? You know, I think it was, so in my journey, it's nice. I've been at every level, high school, D2.
• 13:40
  mid-major, Mac, you know, and then a power four school as they call them nowadays. So you got to see the different levels, what goes into everything. The biggest takeaway is the same thing of being with Coach Kill's staff was just how they were as a unified front, you know, how well they work together. I think people forget is what made them so special is they knew exactly what to do, how to do it, and it was just.
• 14:04
  a routine yeah right people think you gotta change this tweak that no they knew what to do they were masters of developing their players you know bringing guys in walk-ons whoever and just building a program yeah at their pace without really letting that outside pressure get to them i think that was the biggest takeaways like you learn to trust who you are your philosophy and stick to it yeah that's so true and so coaches oftentimes
• 14:30
  Well, Jerry Kill, I sat in his office one day, and we were talking football and offensive stuff, and he said to me, he said, you know, you're lucky you're coaching high school football. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, college coaches got too much time to think. He goes, we're in this office, we got all day. And he said, there's that drive to do more, to add this, to add that. And I think he was, I felt like, from my perspective, and you have a much better one than I did, but.
• 14:59
  He knew exactly what he wanted to do and knew how to delegate to his staff. This is who we are and not drag a bunch of other stuff in. And I learned a lot as a young coach from him saying that to make sure I didn't over-coach. Because under-coaching is worse, but over-coaching is an issue. You overthink things. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Great. That's awesome.
• 15:25
  I'm going to jump into some questions about, so your transition then from there, you've been doing the film study. And when did you get your first, your next position coach job? Was here at SIU. Okay. Yep. And excited to be back on the field, I imagine. Yeah. You know, at Truman State, you felt like you worked so hard and you know.
• 15:48
  To become a coach, it's like paying your dues. It's almost like I tell people, it's like being a doctor. You got to go to school, then you got to go to med school, then you got to do your intern, and then you finally get, you know, and that's kind of what it is. And so when I got my chance to get my own room at Truman State, you felt like you were doing it. And it was a young staff. And Nez, like I said, was great about coaching. He had a saying, he loved coaching players, but he also loved coaching coaches, which was a blessing, you know, because he developed me. And so when I got...
• 16:18
  taken off the field it was it hurt in the sense of i finally felt like i made it and then outside looking in you know you're taking a step up the the optics and power for this and that but for me it's like you only get good at doing something by doing it you know so you had to take a different perspective to learn but getting back your own room was exciting you know that's that's why you do it you know it's to coach the guys to have your room
• 16:44
  you got rewarded though yeah i mean that's the thing you paid your dues you got rewarded and i i assume that you believe that those those five years made you better oh absolutely i think it's like and i think that's one of the points you talk about
• 16:59
  Your whole career as a player and everything, it's built me to who I am. I look back, and at the time, some of the hard phases or things that happened, you didn't enjoy them. Why is it going on? But you look at it now, it's like that's who built me to who I am, and that's the way I coach the way I do. But absolutely. Not always easy. Never. But sometimes when you look back, you go, I needed that. Worth it. And you take it as a...
• 17:29
  A badge of pride now is like I said, how bad do you want to coach? You know, you see a lot of people because there's a lot of people that want to do this profession, which is great. But there's also how bad you really want to do it when you're not necessarily in the role you want to be.
• 17:45
  you're not the guy in the room you're doing running to grab this you got to take this car to get oil change you know i mean whatever it is it's like all right how bad do you really want it now yeah you know i started off filming as a filmer you know what that's so you know and so there's no glory in that no no um i was reading john gruden's book i know he left a a position
• 18:06
  a decent job and i can't remember what it was now but i know he went to work for the 49ers and i think he was sleeping in the head coach's office he was sharp he said at one time he was making sure his pencils were sharpened hey john go pick up so-and-so at the airport yes sir but think about him putting aside his ego and saying this is not going to be forever correct but i am in where i'm where i want to be i'm learning from the best and so over time
• 18:31
  he got his shot so yeah it's i don't know i don't know if young people are quite as patient i don't today i don't think so i don't either because it's i mean it's similar to like the portal and we'll talk about that but it's everybody's got to have it now if you don't have it now you're a failure it's what i almost feel like you know and and it's the same deal it's how it got to niu was i was two seasons in northern colorado got my master's next step what is it
• 19:00
  Our coach at the time, Scott Downing, was a Kansas guy. He came from Nebraska and was the head coach of Northern Colorado. At the time, UNC was just recently transitioned to FCS, you know, and so they were a little bit underfunded and have the resources struggling in the big sky type of deal.
• 19:17
  And he would always talk about the Salukis and this Jerry Kill guy and how he turned this SIU program around. And so, like, when you're young and you hear these names and you're starting to piece it together, it's like, man, I heard that name so much. And you look at what he did, it's like, that's crazy. You know, and so when it came down to it, our offensive coordinator my second year knew Coach Poore. Which who doesn't know Coach Poore, right? Everyone knows Coach Poore. And so I was like.
• 19:45
  coach kill just got the job at niu i just finished my master's degree it's time to move on and i was like can you reach out and see and long story short they had a volunteer opportunity for me unpaid right no guarantees of anything but i told my wife and my family was like if i could get in this circle and learn from this staff that did great things with less
• 20:08
  That's what you want to be able to do in this profession, in this life, right, is being able to take any situation and flip it in your direction. And so I was like, I just need an opportunity and I'll be fine. And so we jumped at it when I told my parents, you know, I got a job. They're like, that's great. Why are you getting paid nothing? But needless to say, they helped pack us up and we moved to DeKalb and it was good. I think about what Jerry Kill did, the way the facilities looked when he did it. And I was just.
• 20:36
  at your spring game and talking to some guys on the sideline and i was saying how he got kids to come here is is pretty remarkable because the stadium was in disrepair the weight room was was not good you know just the the campus is beautiful don't get me wrong but the football facilities at the time i've heard the stories and they were bad and uh he never got the coach in in this this beautiful facility today but he still found a way and and that's pretty remarkable
• 21:04
  You know, and I think they continue to do it at NIU in Minnesota. And I do believe there's what I learned from them is those kids are out there. But it's not just about getting them. You've got to develop them. And that's what they were great about coaching their guys. I agree. And that player development to me in some cases is obviously because of the portal and other things. It's becoming a lost art. It is. But I believe it's always been a challenge. And I think the winning programs know how to develop.
• 21:33
  Others are just looking for that kid that knows how to play, and they find him and they play him. But player development, man, that is, I love that. I think at the NFL level, there are some that are great at developing what they draft, and some are just hoping they land the right guy. It's a lottery pick, you know. Let's talk about the biggest, let's talk about coaching now, kind of in general now. In your opinion, the biggest challenge to coaching at your level of football? I think it's time. I think the higher you go up, D1 football,
• 22:03
  mid-major, power four, it's, to me, it's that time that the sacrifice that you take away from your family. You know, I think my coach was like, get out of here. What are you doing? But I've been so used to being there. And I used, like, no, we didn't have summer camps at the time. I was like, you go be with your family. You know, so it was different. I think for me, you know, when I saw that question or that, that's the biggest challenge is just the amount of time and sacrifice that.
• 22:30
  your family has to pay, especially as they get older and they're in sports and all that, trying to balance that. That's the tough part. Yeah, I got it. That makes complete sense. It's your position group. You coach tight ends. Yes, sir. And you coach H-backs. And H-back, for the people who don't know, is a bit like a tight end in the backfield. They're the guys that... A.K.A. a fullback. Yeah, fullback. They usually call it fullback. It's called fullback. Which is, like, heartbreaking. You know, my son asked me, would you play fullback? What's that? Yeah, I know. Sit down. I think...
• 23:00
  I think Joe Gibbs started using that word H-back. I know he may not have started it, but he started using the word H-back for that tight end guy moving around. But it's a cool position. It is. And when we were really good, we had good H's and tight ends. And we used them especially in our short yardage goal line offensive set. We used that set a lot some years. So what are you looking for? I know you're looking for a big, strong guy. But what are you looking for?
• 23:29
  If you're recruiting a tight end or H-back, what do you want? You know, I think for me, and you already hit it on the head, you're always going to have your set. He's got to be at least this tall, at least this weight at this point in time. You've got to see the frame. He could get 240, 250. So you do have those standards. Yes. And there's always going to be an outlier. There's always going to be a kid that may not fit it, but he brings something else to it. But I always feel there's so many kids out there.
• 23:57
  I'm one man trying to recruit. It's not like big schools where you have a recruiting department, right? So it's like, all right, I need to be able to sort through some of this mess. All right, I got to have, he's got to be at least this tall. He's got to be at least this way at this point in time. You know, on his film, we got to be able to see him run, catch, block. The blocking part is what gets hard sometimes in offenses because a lot of these guys are spread, catching the ball. So it's like, all right, if I don't see him blocking.
• 24:26
  Does he play defense? Is he a DN? Is he a linebacker? Is he sticking his face on people? How does he run with the ball? You're trying to piece this information together. The next thing is grades, you know, are a big thing because it does correlate. I got to have smart guys because we do a lot. And not just that, but then I'm not worried about how they're doing academically. You only have so much time and energy. I want to pour it into what matters. And for me, that's getting them right in football and not worried about.
• 24:55
  what they're doing, you know, school-wise. And then it just comes down to character, what their coach says. You know, I still believe you got to talk to their high school coach because they know. I mean, nowadays, to be honest with you, you can recruit a kid without ever talking to a high school coach. Well, it's happening more and more. And I will never do that. If I'm interested in a kid, I'm going to reach out to the coach. I'm going to let him know when we're going to offer, if we're going to offer, what we think, you know, to the best of my ability.
• 25:22
  But you're trying to get all this information. And at the end of the day, there's got to be a connection between me and him. You know, and I heard this is you want to build the room you want to coach, right? You want to be around the guys you like because you're going to pour into somebody more that you feel that connection versus a guy who's super talented that you just, and you've had players where you just, it doesn't fit right, you know? Yeah, I love that. And I think when you talk about
• 25:50
  building a room like that based on guys that you want to work with that is so huge but i wonder um it from an outsider from a non i've never coached college football but looking at it my take has always been the hardest guy to find is a guy that can run block and catch it is i feel like you have the toughest job that you can get a five foot nine receiver that can fly or tall six foot three or four receiver that can cat the running backs can come in different tight ends and h backs
• 26:20
  are a particular mold. They are. And they're rare. They are. If they're faster than that, they're going to widen out. If they're bigger than that, they're going to put them on the offensive. You know what I mean? Right. So you're looking for kind of a unicorn. Am I right? You are. Yeah. And I think what's helped me with that is I think it's still one of the positions you can develop. So I don't need a guy to come in. If I do it right and I lay out my game plan the right way and I hit on the right kids and they stay in it and they develop and they grow, you know.
• 26:50
  They're playing year two, year three, and I'm able to bring in a young guy, give them time. Because like you said, they're usually not coming in and they're not strong enough or big enough to play right now. Right. They're just not ready to go. You know what I mean? Because it's different. I feel like a skilled kid can play sooner than an old lineman tied in because.
• 27:11
  if you're fast you're fast and you can make plays yeah right but when you have to line up in our conference and block a defensive end that's a grown man yeah and you're coming out of high school that's that's a different deal how's your current group young and experienced yeah which makes it exciting yeah right because at some point we're all young and inexperienced and needing a chance and opportunity to go prove themselves right i have two redshirt freshmen uh true freshmen so conkle morty this was their second spring ball
• 27:39
  uh patrick carr this was his first spring ball and then i'm bringing in three more high school kids okay so with the possibility if there's something still out there in the transfer portal and we tried to go get somebody yeah just didn't find the right guy and i think people think it's as easy it's like oh you lost a guy go get a guy yeah but you got to make sure you get the right guy because if i get the wrong guy now he's just stealing reps from somebody that i feel like
• 28:01
  i believe that i brought in can get ready to go yeah is he is he coachable does he want to be a part of our culture is he gonna is he a good fit for my room yeah um and and i don't mean this in any disrespect but sometimes portal guys are in the portal for a reason correct sometimes good reasons sometimes not so good reasons and that's and that's what you have to do and this portal was so short it was a sprint i mean it opened up like june 2nd we started school like
• 28:27
  Two weeks after that, so you're talking about getting in contact with the kid, vetting all the information, making sure you got it right, transcripts, can he get into school, how many years does he have left, is he interested. Then you got, if you did get him, then you got to get him in. All right, get him into school, find a place to live, all in like two weeks. It was crazy. I'm glad you said that you talked to the high school coach. Because that's, I'm talking to the coaches that I know from in this area and outside the area.
• 28:57
  they're talking about fewer and fewer recruiters are talking to them. I find that very bizarre. And I think they do, too, that there ought to be at least a conversation about what kind of kid is this. His character, his coachability, his, you know, those little things that might be the difference maker. But a lot of times it's not been happening. No doubt. So when I go about my processes, when I go, I'm going to watch. And for us, we're only looking at juniors going to be seniors. We're not.
• 29:28
  I don't have the mental capacity to hold on to all these guys. Right? Because we're not working that far ahead. And so, I'm going to sit down. I'm going to watch. We get all the lists, this and that. I don't want to hear from a high school coach in the sense of who he thinks just quite yet. I like to watch the tape myself based on ability. What do I have? Then I'll go to the coach. What do you think of this kid? Yep. No.
• 29:50
  What about this kid? Maybe I miss him. And there's so many kids you're always adding. You're always removing. I mean, there's just, it changes daily. Recruiting is a daily process. I never felt fully equipped to tell Nate Griffin that this kid should be playing for you. I think that's a decision you have to make. I just wanted to tell them what kind of kid he was. That I knew. Whether he could play at SIU's level or Illinois' level, I'm not sure. You're the expert on that. You make that decision.
• 30:20
  but i just want you to know this is a great kid or not such a great kid you might be taking a chance here because i have to be honest with you and i hope that coaches when you do talk to them are are honest so their credibility doesn't correct and i think you get good at and i understand high school coaches are under pressure too they are especially with why isn't my kid getting recruited all this i mean for sure social media works on both sides this is getting all this hype all that and it's
• 30:48
  I tell people all the time. I even tell my own kids. It's like if you're good enough, it has nothing to do with what I'm going to say. A lot of coaches can put the tape on and see it. That's right. Now that tape is dictated on what you do off the field. The coach is talking to you. It can be how you handle yourself with your own coach, that type of stuff. So there's all these pieces that go together with it. But it is. I understand what coaches, when I go in. And that's why I kind of like to sort through it myself. So it's like.
• 31:16
  Tell me about this kid instead of him just bombarding me with everybody. Yeah, I got you. Because I only have so much time. Of course. And, again, I may miss a kid that is good and it happens all the time, and he'll be like, you might want to check out this guy. All right, appreciate it, Coach. Thank you. What's the portal? You were in before. You were coaching before. Now you're coaching in the middle of it. Are we navigating those waters better? Are we kind of figuring it out now more and better than we were, say, five years ago, four years ago, whatever?
• 31:45
  Man, I feel like it changes each year. Oh, okay. You know what I'm saying? As far as there's two windows, now there's one window. Now it feels better with the one window because this time last year after spring ball, it's like, all right, who are we going to lose? And then they got rid of that portal. And that could devastate. You're talking about you lose a key player here or there and you're going into summertime. That you just ripped. Correct. Yeah. So that helps, you know, in getting that. I think it's, I don't know. I guess I don't put a whole lot of thought into it. It is what it is.
• 32:15
  you wait and see what the rules are on it and then you just go with it i think i think that's the best answer that i hear coat it is what it is it's the reality of where we're at and i got to learn how to deal with it and i for coaches to sit and bemoan and bellyache about it i think i understand i can understand your frustration i'm frustrated as a college football fan yeah
• 32:40
  but it doesn't do any good to complain about it it is i think the guys that are doing it well are saying okay this is the new world we live in you don't you don't necessarily love it but yeah it is what it is um but it is i i assume and everyone on the outside i think is making the assumption that it's really hard for player development correct really hard maybe harder to coach a kid hard that needs to be coached hard to get over himself maybe and get you know
• 33:10
  and then i i feel like getting people to buy into your culture i think takes time it does yeah i think as far as coaching kids hard i think for us as a staff we don't really worry about that you can't change you know i guess you don't want to coach in fear of losing a kid right if he can't handle it all well right right and you also look at it's like again you go to a
• 33:42
  you don't know if you can lose them or not regardless of what you do. So you just you do the best you can you coach the way you can and that's it, you know, and if they tend to leave they leave if not great, you know, that's that's the hard part because you don't want to take away from what you do as a coach or change your approach because of fear of losing a kid, you know, because I always felt like if you if that's the fear then you probably don't need that kid. Anyways, if you can't because you know for me, I'm not coaching in a sense of be rating or
• 34:11
  beating them down building them if that makes sense so i'm not worried about those i don't feel like any of our coaches are either those are bullseyes in my opinion i think that's those are the the best answers that i would want to hear i personally want to hear from a coach it's not going to change the way we coach if that kid can't handle that then maybe this just isn't a good fit for them what a great attitude that frees you up to be
• 34:33
  To coach. To do what you do. You're going to second guess a lot of things. That's one thing you don't need to. NIL and the impact on SIU. You know, Coach Hill handles a lot of that. He doesn't really let us know what moves or what's going on, which I think is the best. And I think that's his strategy. The less we're involved, the better. Because there is no, we're just coaching our guys. That's his deal with them, I think.
• 35:03
  when it comes to NIL for us at our level, I think it is more so used to maintain your roster in hopes of keeping your players intact versus going out and getting, at least this point in time. Now, that may change as we go through. But that's what I felt like it's been the last cycle or two. It's like we're trying to keep our guys and, you know, what can we give and provide. And good culture will help keep.
• 35:31
  will help keep kids there's no doubt i mean everybody wants to belong to something that they enjoy being a part of you know and if you have a healthy culture you're going to keep a core but you're always going to lose i mean you've always lost people regardless before the portal or anything like that but if you have a good culture where people feel loved they feel like they belong they feel like they're growing and developing um they're pushing in the direction they want to go you're gonna you'll keep guys yeah i i love that and i i feel like um
• 36:00
  You know, you've got a situation where from the outside looking in, I sound like an old timer, but I feel like these conferences like the Missouri Valley, the Ohio Valley or whatever, I think they are taking some shots, you know, losing good players. Players that succeed and play at a high level may not stay. But if everybody's in the same boat, right? You know, it's interesting. We were talking about this.
• 36:29
  couple of our coaches. I don't know. I almost feel like it hurts FCS because some of your at least the quality now this will see but it feels like a lot of programs. You're losing especially up from big bodies are hard to find. So we're talking about backups to decent players. Maybe you know starters of their pride on but you're losing guy depth guys.
• 36:58
  that these schools are just plucking for just in cases. And it's hard for us to go replace those bodies that we've brought in and developed. You know what I mean? So I'm curious to see how this is going to impact over the time, like the FCS level, because it's just like they don't care. So it feels like sometimes they just grab whoever just to have a body, honestly. It's what it feels like now. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what it feels like sometimes. Well, I respect you guys so much dealing with the portal and with the NIL stuff. And I know it's...
• 37:28
  still relatively new. But I feel like Southern is doing such a good job of navigating this and kind of learning and just dealing with it. You know, I think that's because of the head coach. He is a very business-like man. You know, he's aggressive in those terms. He's in the sense of he's always trying to stay ahead of the game. That's who he is. He's energetic. He's smart. He's intelligent. He's good at seeing all those kind of deals or seeing ahead, talking to people. That's one of his fortes is he's always.
• 37:57
  Seems like he's ahead of it or on it. And I feel like he's steady. He is. Because in this day and age, boy, if you're this guy, good luck with that. Because that roster is going to change dramatically, you know. And it can. And you could lose a guy. You know, and he says it all the time. It's like, whoever we got, that's who we have. Let's coach them up. That's right. I mean, you're not going to change it. You know, it's almost like high school. Who you got is who you got. That's who you got. Yeah. Look around and say, these are our guys. Let's go get it. Yeah, let's do.
• 38:27
  Missouri Valley Conference, it's a unique situation to be in. I mean, you can be better one year to the next and have nothing to show for it because maybe everybody else is better too, right? Yeah. I mean, what's been the biggest, what is the biggest challenge in your mind? Is it just the level of competition? How well the coaching staffs are all good? What is it? All of the above. What you said, I think it is the players. I think it's the coaches.
• 38:55
  i think now you're looking at the resources um a majority of the schools you look at the dakotas have yeah you know you go to some of these places and it's like this looks like a fbs program stadium yeah and when i talk about resources i'm not just talking about like nil i'm talking about people they have on their staff recruiting departments operations you know all that type of stuff so it's like it is but that's what makes it fun to coach it is every single week it is you don't know
• 39:24
  Anybody can win. It's almost like a game of who can stay healthy the longest, who has the best depth, you know, and that kind of deal. Yeah, I feel like that's a big part of it. You know, and it's also, I think, the biggest thing that separates our conference is probably the guys up front, O-line, D-line. Okay. You know, when you get into the playoffs and it's not a knock on anybody else, but you just, you don't realize it because you're facing it every single week when you go.
• 39:53
  and match up against somebody else outside of our conference. It's like, oh, it's a different, the valley is different. The valley is different. It's different. And I know like if you can survive it and succeed in it, you're well prepared.
• 40:05
  Anybody has a chance. Anybody. Illinois State. It's a perfect example. They got NDSU early and they just kept rolling. Yeah. It's like anybody in our conference can do the same thing. It could happen. Yeah. And, you know, SIU's had a run or two. And you get in, but you've got to get in. And that's the challenge. That is the challenge. But you are battle-tested, that's for sure. So what is the best? Before I get to that question.
• 40:30
  Is there a secret? I feel like the Missouri Valley makes it more difficult. You want to peak at the right time. But I feel like the schedule sometimes makes it tough to do that because you have to stay healthy and survive that schedule. So is there something that you guys do to try to peak at the right time? Do you scale back the amount of time on the field to keep the players fresh?
• 40:56
  Things like that. Yeah. No, I think it's all based on each year and each team. Yeah. You know, what team can handle it maturely as far as like pulling back, taking out the pads, you know, cutting down reps. Coach Hill does a good job as far as every year when we get into taking a look at that. Like, all right, we're halfway through. We're towards the end. Yeah. Who's banged up? We can slow it down. You're still going to have periods where you're going because you got to get that.
• 41:22
  those live looks, contact, you still want to keep that mindset. But doing a good job of listening to meet our strength coach, where our guys are at, evaluating, right, this time we need to maybe pull back a little bit as far as just taking the wear and tear off of them. I think for me in that question, you know, because everybody, Coach Hill does a great job of allowing you to operate, let you operate your room the way you want to. I've always felt like.
• 41:49
  I'm going to rep all my guys that are going to play in the sense or have the potential of playing throughout every practice. It's not just the ones and twos getting all the reps. I need the threes and fours because they can be easily the next guys up, right? So now you're taking the load off your ones and twos as far as just physically. Now the threes and fours are mentally and physically getting ready just in case. So I've always felt like just keeping everybody.
• 42:14
  Just trying to build your depth as you go throughout the year. And that's player development. Yeah, it is. I mean, you know, it is. You only get good at doing it. Yeah, and you've had some situations. You've had some tight end injuries and some good ones. Yeah. And the guys, to your credit, have stepped up and played. Well, I appreciate that. It's happened. But that's all them. No, it's exactly. It's like two years ago when A.J. was out and went down and Hogue had to step up. Yeah.
• 42:41
  Played lights out. Yeah, you know and then the following year AJ's back when he goes down miles Marshall steps up He plays for now. I know my eyes, you know, and they step in there, but that's all part of their yeah because I always felt like I didn't like when Your top guy got all the rest and I get it like everybody has their own approach But I always felt like you have to prepare everybody I do too, you know And it's the same deal like when we do walkthroughs every practice before we get going we do walkthrough
• 43:11
  When ones are up, whoever on my tight ends like this spring, they're all one after the other. You're up, you're up, rotating because it's like we need the reps and also mentally you got to stay locked in. So you're not just in the back. Because we always say, get your mental reps. And they're like back there. They're all like that. You know what I'm saying? That sounds good, though. It sounds good. It's like a cover you're behind, right? But it's like, no, we all, because it keeps them all rolling in. It keeps them down. It does. And it's like getting them ready for practice. Yeah.
• 43:38
  No, I love that. I love the fact that you have guys. I would probably be criticized for giving my backups too many reps. And maybe I did to a fault. But I always felt like we did not want to lose a ball game because we lost a first string player here or there. I wanted to be ready to go next man up. But you can say next man up, but it's your job to get that guy ready. Exactly. Yeah.
• 44:04
  What makes SIU a great place to recruit a kid? When you recruit a kid and you say you need to come to SIU because? I think it's the people. I think it all starts with your head coach, right? We go as he goes. He is SIU through and through. I mean, he loves this place. He's from this area. Yeah, that's true. You know what I mean? And it truly is when you talk about family, it is family. And I think when you talk about this profession, how long he's been there, that speaks highly of him.
• 44:34
  what he's capable of, what he's doing, and what matters to him. He surrounds himself. You know, a strength coach is a big part of it. Mead, same deal, consistency. Everybody that is dealing with football are high-quality people, you know. So I think the people are huge, right, because everybody's going to have the nice facilities. That stuff's all good and great until it's 6 a.m., and we're not going to just, let's go. You know what I mean? So it's the people that are.
• 45:02
  that are behind the scenes that are involved. And then, like you said, it's a beautiful college campus. It's funny when we have a junior day and all these families come. I didn't realize it's beautiful when it's green, it's warm, the stadium is awesome.
• 45:16
  All the stuff we have, everything's centrally located. You know, when you're a player, you got the locker room, you got the training room, you got academics, weight room. Our offices are all right there in one place. Yeah, it's cool. It is. It's really nice. Location is close to a lot of things. Yeah. And then on top of that, you're in the best conference. If you want to play legit college football, and I don't think people realize that until you're in it, the Valley is just as good as some mid-majors. It's true. It's true.
• 45:45
  The game has changed a lot since you played. Oh, yeah. What's the biggest change? What's some of the biggest changes? No more fullbacks. Where are they at, right? No, I think it's, you see it a lot more. It is a more fast-paced game. Yeah. Up-tempo, a little more spread it out. You know, I think of that. I think it's...
• 46:08
  Throwing the ball might be a little more dominant. And I think it all spans from NFL where the NFL kind of trickles down. And that's what they do. So, I think other people tend to do it. Running quarterback? Running quarterback. I didn't see that when I was young. Growing up, there was a few guys that ran. But they were a novelty. And then Randall Cunningham and some guys came along.
• 46:31
  but but now i mean nobody goes under center yeah no one drops straight back in before the old day and fouls for that yeah but i actually saw a video the other day of a college coach is going back to that yeah i guess to see the field i said everything comes back around you know it does because it's the same deal we talk about defenses where it was like
• 46:49
  The 5-2 under, now all of a sudden it's like the bear, the odd. And it's like, this is amazing. But it's all just like, that's what they ran back in the game. That's right. Now it's all coming back. So maybe the fullback will come back, right? Maybe it will. I think he will. So nothing frustrates me more than the ball is on the 1-2-3 yard line. And you've got an offense on the field. You've got a good running back in the backfield. And there is a quarterback and no fullback. It drives.
• 47:16
  My wife is so tired of me yelling at the TV. When we got in the red zone, we got in the goal line situation. A lot of times we were double tight with an H-back. Sometimes we used two H-backs. And I would get a defensive lineman if I had to. Oh, yeah. But why they don't put a lead blocker. Even Derrick Henry, you put a lead blocker in front of him. I'm telling you, it makes a difference. It does. And it just drives me crazy. I know. I love saying this to a fullback coach. There you go. Game day. You're on the sideline. Game's going.
• 47:46
  What's your biggest role? What is it that you are looking at? So I'm in the box. They keep me in the box. They keep me in the box. They let Coach Clark and Coach Warner on the field. They're the energetic two. You can't keep Coach Warner in a box. No, you can't. No, so, I mean, it's kind of changed in the sense now you have the iPads.
• 48:05
  You know, before the iPads, I was charting plays, defensive front. So, it would be like, all right, what was that front? What did we see? Blitzes, all that type of stuff. I still do that in the sense of tendencies, try to get the defensive tendencies, really. And then we're on the iPad. I'm communicating with Coach Clark what we saw box-wise. You know, if it's a certain protection, you watch the front side. I got the back side. Obviously, we both have the iPad afterwards. And then just communicating.
• 48:30
  Like I said, any tendencies, hey, first down, they're heating us up with this pressure, whatever. And then it's just my communication to the tight ends, any adjustments we need, anything they're seeing or struggling with. Here's the play sequence. We're getting ready. We're on the bench. Next time we're on the field, we're going to start with this. We're going to go to this and be ready for this on third down. Yeah, big halftime adjustments. They can be huge, right? I mean, it's a big part of what adjustments look like. It's a chess match, I'm sure, man.
• 49:02
  What about working with Nick Hill? You've already mentioned some things about him. I don't want to belabor that over again, but the best part of working with him? Is that he trusts us. You know, the trust factor. Love it. He allows his coaches, in my opinion, to do your job. He gives you the task. Here's the end result we need. You do it the best way you see fit to get it done. He allows you freedom to do your job, which is huge. The other part that...
• 49:30
  goes unseen or people don't think about is anytime it has to do with family or emergency or you got to get out of the office, no hesitation. That's great. Which is huge. That's great. Because in this profession, you don't have a whole lot of time. You're worried. Kids can't get sick because there's no hesitation. Get out. Take care of your family. And that is awesome. It is huge. 26 Salukis? Yeah. What do you think? Optimistic. Yeah. You know, it is.
• 50:01
  I'm an optimist by heart, so always got a fighting chance. I think anytime you have a quarterback like we do coming back, you got a chance. It's so hard to tell because we felt good two years ago and then a string of injuries. But, no, I feel as good as you can any year going into this thing. For SIU, what is the biggest challenge? And I know every coach.
• 50:30
  is where they're at, your program's where it's at. Everybody wants that next level. Is there anything that the Salukis are striving for to get to that next level that they want to be at? Is there a particular strategy, is there a particular thought, or hey, is there a focus that we, this is something that we can do to maybe make that next move? You know, I think it's probably just keeping up with the times as far as...
• 50:55
  What does that NIL, and this is my opinion, what's that NIL deal look like? Are we going to be able to financially be competitive? At some point, facilities, what do those look like? Because everybody's now getting indoors. It tends to be an arms race when it gets into that. Illinois State has the bubble, you know, what it is. The resources that you're provided, what extra employees you have in the sense of recruiting coordinator, ops guy, I think that's.
• 51:22
  kind of the direction those programs are moving towards and i think just like anything if you want to stay in it you have to advance with them and that'd probably be the thing it's it's probably the thing that i miss the least about coaching is the maddening
• 51:38
  catch-up game. You are constantly playing. You go to a clinic. Clinics are great, but you find out people are doing stuff you're not doing, and all of a sudden, you're driving home, and you're thinking, we've got to do this, this. You know what I mean? I'm on Twitter seeing a coach do a drill, and I'm going, all right, we've got to start doing more of that, speed training, weight training. We're not doing nutrition enough, and so it is maddening. I think it wasn't the X's and O's. It wasn't the coaching. It was just that part of it, feeling like,
• 52:08
  You could never stay the same. You always had to keep advancing. So I appreciate you sharing that. Let's talk family. Family's a big deal. I know it's a big deal to you. I've got to meet your kids over time. And I did a little bit of stuff with the volleyball team at Carterville. So tell me about your family. Yeah, so Amy and I, we've been married. We'll be 21 years here in June, right? So like I said, met her.
• 52:35
  up at school at the University of Idaho. She's from Boise. She comes from a long line of vandals. All of her family went to Idaho, graduated, met her in college, got married once we graduated. She's the rock, man. She's the reason I'm here in the sense of all these places we've gone. She's never hesitated, never doubted. She's the one that keeps me in check in the sense of when I'm...
• 53:01
  feeling good in the sense of like, hey, you know, just make sure you're handling your business with this or if I don't get too down. I mean, she's the steady rock for sure. Special place in heaven for coaches' wives. There's no doubt. Yeah, seriously. I mean, it's, yeah, my wife dealt with it for a long time. And like, like you said, she was a rock and sometimes she was a voice I needed to hear both to uplift and also to look at myself in the mirror and self-check a little bit. But you have kids, you have
• 53:28
  Two. I have a daughter, Maya. She's 14. My son, Tommy, just turned 12. So, Maya's a freshman at Carterville High School. Tommy's in sixth grade. So, they're living their best life, man. And they play sports? Play sports. Maya plays volleyball and basketball. Tommy, this year was his first year of tackle football. I pushed it off for so long. He's like, Dad, you told me I could play. I was like, okay, here we go. So, football. He did basketball.
• 53:57
  He's in track, and he got into boxing last year. That's cool, though. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. Is he a fullback? He is a running back, a linebacker. He doesn't know what he is. He just loves to score. You know, that's the biggest thing with the kids, and I just want them to be able to go on their journey, whatever that is. If they want to pursue it, great. I'm not hounding them to be like, you've got to get a special coach in this or that. You've got to be doing this. Like, hey.
• 54:27
  I walked my path already. This is your journey. If you want to do that, mom and I will guide you and help you. But if not, that's, this is your choice. That's great. What's summer look like for you? Busy. Yeah. You know, it is, once we get going, we, so right now we're in spring recruiting. Okay. End of May, we'll get some time off.
• 54:46
  And then once June starts back up, that's when all these camps, mega camps start up. So it's back into technically recruiting phase, evaluating, seeing prospects. At that time, our team will get back into town. You know, they got their workouts, making sure they're online, doing all that type of stuff. That's close. And then we'll get some time at the end of June, beginning of July. You know, we will, at that time, my daughter is playing club volleyball.
• 55:15
  has a tournament in orlando so we'll go down to that yeah and then we'll get back and before you know it it'll be fall camp and we're going right back into it it'll be here before we know it man um how do you stay fresh listen this is this is like you said it's not hey i'll see you have a great summer this is uh this is a grind how do you stay fresh the family and i think you have to personally know when to turn it off and shut it down and go and be home yeah um i think it is
• 55:44
  And, again, I learned this from Coach Nez is there's always something to be done. This profession, you can find something to do all day. You can never leave your office and feel like you got nothing done. That's true. Because there's always something. It's like you as a man have to be able to be like, nope, I'm done. I'm going to go home and be a husband, a father, you know. And so he taught me that young, you know, and some other coaches guided me in that. Coach Reeves was always like, hey, when you get a chance, you go home and be home. So.
• 56:14
  Staying fresh is every day is like when I'm done at the office, you know, I'm gonna put my phone up, you know, I can Talk to kids I can hit whoever up tomorrow. Yeah, I'm gonna go home See how the kids are doing see how the wife's doing and be at home. I think that's the best thing because when When I'm guilty of it when you do it non-stop it just slowly grinds your sight
• 56:40
  keeping your motor on just like idling oh and it just eventually it's like wears you out it does so it's like man i need to detach go home refresh yeah i'll deal with it tomorrow i went through waves of catching myself yeah overdoing it and it wasn't good for me or my players or my family i wasn't i wasn't doing a better job because i was at the office more it's almost like you feel like the old school put more weight
• 57:09
  do more reps, you're going to get better. But it's like it doesn't work like that. It doesn't. You know, it's like more isn't better sometimes. You know, the good Lord said, you know, you need to take that Sunday off. And there is wisdom in that whether it's lifting weights or whether it's coaching or whatever. That time off is valuable just to get away from it. It is. And it has to be true, like I said. And it's not always perfect, but I try to be home. When I'm home, I'm home.
• 57:35
  Like that's the best way because you can't just say it and then you're on your phone or just like, hey, walk in. Tommy's shooting hoops. Let's go shoot hoops. Maya wants to talk about it. We're talking about I'm helping her study for her driver's license. You know, whatever it is, I'm there. Yep, here we go. Let's go get it done. I would catch myself on the beach on my vacation still thinking about it, still looking at something, just taking a peek.
• 58:00
  And one day I bought a book, just a book just to read. It was a John Grisham lawyer novel, some mystery thriller, you know. And I sat down. This is a true story. I'm embarrassed to tell you this. And I had a highlighter with me. And my wife said, what in the world are you going to highlight in a John Grisham book? Because I was so used to reading something football related.
• 58:22
  highlighter don't need that you know it's a book about just enjoying and just getting away because I was always thinking even on vacation what could I do today I need to do something almost like I had to earn my no just relax yeah enjoy it you owe it to your family but um let's see I just want to tell you that um you've been at SIU for this is going on my 11th season yeah and you are so highly thought of
• 58:51
  And so well respected. And even before I got to know you, if you came up in a conversation or someone saw you at a camp or at practice, man, you have a great reputation. And you're so well thought of, Coach. And getting to know you, everything they've said is true. And SIU's in good hands with guys like you on their staff. And I appreciate you being here. Thank you. And I mean that. And we've had trouble getting this scheduled a little bit. But I appreciate you being here today because this.
• 59:20
  I've been wanting to talk to you for a long time, and I'm glad you came, and I wish you all the best, man. I do. Thank you for your time. Special guy. Absolutely. You're welcome. Appreciate it. Thanks again to Coach. As I said, talk about hitting the bullseye time and time again, and philosophically, and just what is good about coaching. This guy embodies it. I want to wish him and the Salukis the best of luck, and go tight ends and H-backs, man. That's a great position. Thanks again to Crown Brew.
• 59:48
  Thanks again to Ross and Abby, Swinford Media, Swinford Wedding Videography and Photography. Don't forget my buddies at Adrenaline, Jeff and Matt. Don't forget Tony Gooch at Marion Plumbing. Thanks for being patient as we take a little hiatus. We're back now. We look forward to seeing you again next week. Thanks.