Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / EP321 | Jack Mac: Wanderlust by any Wheels Necessary

Transcript

EP321 | Jack Mac: Wanderlust by any Wheels Necessary · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal Podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady, and I am here with longtime friend and
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: team member, Jack Mack. Jack has traveled around the world.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: He's done it in some super cool ways, including bicycles
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and backpacking and currently in his Land Cruiser. But Jack's
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a big part of our team. He's a really important
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: team member. He's been working on the Expedition Portal side
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of things for years. just over five years. He's also
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the one that has been the mastermind behind all of
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: our classifieds growth. And when you go into Expedition Portal
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: and you see all these really cool trucks that are
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: for sale from travelers around the world, Jack's the one
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: that helps pull all that together and make that possible.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: So thank you, Jack, for being on the podcast today.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. If anyone wants to make any
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: bad decisions or spend lots of money, I'm the person.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: For the job. You're their guy. You're their guy.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: And a special thanks to Honcook Dynapro Tire. for supporting
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: this week's Overland Journal podcast. Be sure to visit expeditionportal.com
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: to see our features on the recent Honcook experience at
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: the fourth annual Bronco Stampede in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. We
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: took a look at the full line of DynaPro tires
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: and some great Ford Broncos from all over the country
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: as they gathered at this community event of enthusiasts and
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: top brands. Thanks again, Han Cook. It is easy to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: spend a bunch of time scrolling through Expedition Portal or
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: bring a trailer or whatever, looking at vehicles that I
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be buying. So I spend a little bit too
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: much time doing that myself.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Easily done.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I always think that with travel and stuff as well,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: it's funny how when you're at home, you do most,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: at least for me, I do most of my spending
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: and looking at stuff when I'm in one place I'm
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: working because it's kind of buying stuff. But then when
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I go away, I don't really think about the rig
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: or the gear that much. It's You kind of make
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: do with the stuff you have on you a lot more,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: but that means I'm not guilty of it. I spend
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: a bunch of money. I would go and work seasonally
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: and I'd be so good, not spend any money, come
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: back and then spend my year's wages. I deserve this.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I deserve a little treat because I've been aware and
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I've been so good with my money. And then I'd
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: spend my entire earnings for the year, a bunch of
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Amazon boxes start piling up. So I'm very guilty of
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: it as well.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: You mentioned that yesterday, and I think you make a
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: really good point. I think when we, as travelers, when
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: we have a goal around travel or if we're in
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: the process of of doing a trip, it does shift
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: our perspective around where we spend our money. So I
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: find with myself too, like when I'm between journeys and
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting at home, I have more idle time. It
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: gets me onto Amazon or I pick something up in that, like,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: why do I need this wooden display stand for a
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: timer at my desk.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: For $ 180?
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So I do find that like right now I'm doing
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: this trip around the world with Tavia and we're starting
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: to figure out that if we really want to extend this,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: or if we want to travel for longer, we need
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: to spend less money on the gadgets and stuff that
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: we have back home. So it starts to be an
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: easier decision. I think when we are in the mindset
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: of travel.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I think to take that one step further
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: as well, I don't think we spoke about this yesterday.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I think that if you have too fancy gear and
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: stuff on the road, it does own you a little
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: bit because I love nice cameras. I really like Leica stuff.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I like nice watches and nice equipment and nice vehicles
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: and stuff. But I feel that when I had a,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I had for a period of a very cheap Mitsubishi
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Delica and what that really taught me was I could
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: just leave it anywhere and not worry. And so I
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: was more focused on the experiences. When you have all
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: these fancy cameras, you've got to drag them around with
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: you and stuff as well, because most places are great,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: but the more valuables you have on you, the more
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: you have to think about that. I think it was Christian,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry to pronounce his name, Pelletier. Yeah, he was
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: on the podcast and he said something about, you know,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: you should really only travel in the vehicle you can
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: afford to lose. And I think that's super important because, yeah,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: you don't want to have your life savings necessarily tied
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: into the vehicle because I think it makes you less
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: ambitious with the trips you take. That's something that I
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: think has been important to me.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: And he really lived it too. He actually.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: He bought a used limousine in Las Vegas and shipped
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: it to Africa and drove it all the way to Timbuktu.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: And as I understand it, that limousine is still in
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Timbuktu somewhere. He just left it. He just pulled his
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: bag out of the trunk or wherever. They were camping
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: inside the limo, of course, those long benches and everything.
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  Speaker 2: And it is funny, isn't it, how you just make
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: do with it. Once you're on the road and you
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: don't have a choice, you make any setup kind of work.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: I actually have one of the projects I've been working
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: on at the moment is I've got not a really
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: old Fiat Panda 4x4 because they're just quite expensive and
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I didn't want a rusty old relic car. I've just
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: got too many of them. But I've got a little
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Fiat Panda and it's the same kind of thing because
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: it costs so little and you can just throw it around.
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  Speaker 2: I can chuck a sleeping bag in the back, jet
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: boil camera and just go and you can leave that anywhere.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Is that how you typically get to the start of
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: your bike trips?
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  Speaker 2: So in the past, yeah, I have done that in
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: the past. I've had going back a little bit because
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: it's been a long time since I've had just a
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: normal car, to be honest. I've had the Synchro probably
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: going on 15 years and I've been never financially recovered
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: from that. And so I used to drive the car. Yeah.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: For example, I did a bike packing ride in the
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Black Forest in Germany and we would drive to the start.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: That was because going from UK to Calais is super
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: easy and also done a few like that. So that's
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: been useful. I think Overland vehicles as a way to
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: facilitate outdoor adventures has been a huge part of my journey.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: In fact, I started out on a bike and I
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: was actually in the Black Forest, funnily enough, when I
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: realized that everything that truly made me happy, everything I
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: really needed could be fit on the panniers on a bicycle.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: And that was the impetus really to be like, if
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I can do this on a bicycle, a vehicle is
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: going to be like pure luxury. Because I was with
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: one of my good friends, Mo, just looking over at
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: one of my best mates. got everything you could possibly
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: need inside the bags on a bicycle. And it was
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: really liberating. And I've had quite a few experiences in
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: my life like that, where I realized that sometimes the
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: things we aspire to, some of the simplest things are
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: like the biggest victories in life. And similarly, when I
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: started out, I had a job in London originally. I
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: left that job, moved into the synchro full time. And
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I was just pot washing out the back of a
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: fancy restaurant in the top of the Highlands. And I
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: remember thinking, I had no money.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I was so broke.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I couldn't even put fuel in the vehicle to drive it,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: to charge the battery, to use the heater. And it
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: was winter and it was cold. And I was sleeping
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: in my uniform inside the sleeping bag because I didn't
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: want it to be like wet and damp in the morning.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: But I remember thinking to myself, I was so happy
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: compared to the London city life, which is all these
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: kind of ideals of money and success. And suddenly I
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: just had the great outdoors, which cost me nothing and
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: brought me so much joy. And I realized, oh, wow,
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  Speaker 2: if I pursue things I actually love, even if there's
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: not tons of money in it, All the things I
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: enjoy are actually free and I've already won in life.
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  Speaker 2: And every penny from this point on is just a bonus.
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  Speaker 2: And I've always stuck by that. I've never chased money.
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  Speaker 2: Money is important. And I think for me, it gives
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: me more freedom to do the things I love. But
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: I've always first and foremost feel like you should pursue
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: your passions and the things you enjoy. And the money
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: usually does come with that. If you can apply kind
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: of a commercial attitude or a corporate attitude to your passions,
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  Speaker 2: that's always been useful for me.
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  Speaker 3: I like that a lot.
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  Speaker 1: And if you think about that experience that you were
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: having in the black forest, you were doing something you love.
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  Speaker 1: You were doing something difficult.
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  Speaker 3: You had a purpose.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: You were trying to get to a place. You were
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: doing it with your buddy, doing it with your best mate.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: And you guys are having that experience, that shared experience together.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: And I found the same thing for me just on
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: the ride up here to Montana, getting the chance to
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: be on motorcycles with Tavia, cheap bikes. They're both inexpensive,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: less than $ 5, 000 a piece. But the roads we were seeing,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I was just awestruck with what I was seeing through
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: the helmet.
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  Speaker 3: And yeah, doing something you love with somebody you love,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: like how lucky is that?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's the thing in life is just the
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: great outdoors, family, friends, experiences. I think it's really important
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: sometimes to take stock of the stuff. I really feel
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: when I'm really stressed, I just kind of take a
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: step back and think about how grateful I am. I
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: think another thing that's really helped me is working in
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: tourism all these years, guiding, whether it's like sea kayak
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: guiding or mountain guiding or photography workshops. You meet people
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: from so many different walks of life. People that I
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: was working in Norway, we'd have a mooring for a boat.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: So you'd have actual people with like really premium sailing boats,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: like people are multimillionaires. The same day you'd have somebody
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: coming who just living out of a backpack. And after
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: a few days, they get comfortable with you. They would
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: share their hopes, their dreams, ambitions, their struggles. And you
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: realize that it doesn't matter the job or how much
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: money you have in bank, all of our struggles are
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: our own. And I've always just tried to be grateful
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: for the things that I have and that understanding that
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: nothing will ever make life perfect either. And I was
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: actually interested because you guys have gone down to the motorbikes.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: How is that compared to being in something like the
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Grenadier where you have a bit more comfort and luxury?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: And how have you found that kind of transition back
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: to the bike?
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I would say for me, the great thing about being
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: on the bike is that Tavia loves to ride motorcycles.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: So I get the chance to see her enjoy, when
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: you're in a vehicle, one of you is a passenger
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: all the time. Whereas on the two motorcycles, we're both
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: always engaged in the process. And I get the opportunity
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: because I don't really care how I travel. The Grenadier
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: was awesome because I really wanted that company to have
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: a chance in the market. So we wanted to be
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: as supportive as we could be. But then I've also
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: traveled the Silk Road in a I think I paid 5,000,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: 6,000 pounds for this old Suzuki Jimny, drove all the
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: way to Mongolia.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: And that was great too.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: So I don't think it really mattered so much what
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: it was. I had a lot of respect for the 76ers.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: series Land Cruisers that we did E7 with. When I
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: ended that trip, it was a different kind of, I
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: think you can fall in love with a vehicle like
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: a Land Rover or a Syncro or the Grenadier, but
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I don't think you can leave a trip like that
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: in a Land Cruiser without just feeling such reverence for
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the fact that that company can make that car that way.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. I've obviously owned the 1986 Volkswagen
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Syncro or the Vanagon Syncro for US listeners, which I
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: guess is predominantly the audiences. I had had the Syncro
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: for a long time and I love the Syncro. And
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I think for living inside, it's really hard to beat Volkswagen.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: They've got the dimensions just right. There's a reason why
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: so many of the greatest trips have been in an
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: old Volkswagen. They get just about everywhere. And I love
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: that vehicle. It's one of the reasons when I first
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: bought the TruePee, people were like, oh, you must be
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: selling the Synchro. But it's really hard because I absolutely
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: love that vehicle. And it always brings a smile to
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: my face and an overdraft to my bank balance. But
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I bought the 70 series because I thought if I'm
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: going to buy something else, it has to be the
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Pinnacle because I don't want another vehicle where I am.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: It is so temperamental. With the Synchro, if I do
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: a journey, I have to think, okay, where can I
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: break down? What parts do I have? Can I get
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: parts flown out if it's something major? Who can work
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: on this? Is this something I can fix myself? every
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: day is you wake up in the morning and you
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: do a little prayer at the wheel being like, please work, please.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: And it's always really, yeah.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And do you know what? It's been really reliable. I've
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: done so much preventative maintenance that I've had very few breakdowns,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: but that has required a lot of constant investment, listening
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: to every noise, that kind of, I don't know if
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: you've seen funny videos where people are walking alongside their vehicle,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: kind of like listen to absolutely every creak and rattle.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: So I knew that if I was going to get
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: something else, it had to be a vehicle that had that,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: that reverence, that kind of real, this is considered the pinnacle.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: And when I bought my Trooper, actually, it was a
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: crazy story. It was really funny. I was in working
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: in Norway and I had the Delica at the time.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Also a great vehicle, cost me under 5,000 pounds.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: That thing, I- Another van, really space efficient. Yeah.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And that almost really cool is a modified Pajero chassis
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: or the Montero. I always forget your designations in the US,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: but that thing is awesome because it's like a four-wheel
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: drive wheelbase with a proper high-low range, really good four-wheel
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: drive system with a little van body on it and
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: a pop top. That is really close to perfection, to
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: be honest. It's such a good size. And I love
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: that vehicle. It's really cheap. And it was a good
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: reminder as well that the Japanese manufacturers, they just do
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: a really good job. Whether you get the smallest little runaround,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: like a little Corolla or something, or you're buying the
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: newest Land Cruiser 250 or something.
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Toyota or Nissan or Mazda, they just make things really well.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: They do.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: And I feel like I always kind of think of
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: the Troopy as Toyota, like the kind of pinnacle brand,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: and then their cars are great. And then you've got,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: as you go up the designations, I feel like the
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Land Cruiser is awesome. And then the Troopy is the
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: next level up as well. It's when I got behind
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: the wheel, I actually, I'll backtrack a little bit. Cause
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: it's funny. I was in Norway. I'd looked at three,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: three other Land Cruisers over the years, Troopies over the years.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: None of them had quite worked out. And I was
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: in Norway and I was working in a seasonal job
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: and this one came up and I almost bought it
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: sight unseen. And I was nervous because it was a
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: lot of money and the guy was super nice, but
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: he was like a real life Indiana Jones. His name
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: is Peter and we became really good friends. And he
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: was like, you can pay half of it. And then
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: when you get back, we'll sort out the rest. And
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: when I went to his house, it just felt like,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: excuse me, it felt so like it was meant to be.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I turned up to his house. It's in this really
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: small medieval little village in England. I love that.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: As Indiana Jones would be, right?
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: This is just the beginning as well. This guy was
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: so interesting. I couldn't believe, he'd be great for the
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: podcast actually. And I was nervous because it was a
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: lot of money. It was like my savings. And I
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: went down and he lived in like a building that
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: was called like the old jail house. And I thought,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I am going to get robbed. This guy is going
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: to rob me. He lives in a place. I thought
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: that's maybe a bit of a warning sign. But I
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: went up there and it was like this little loft.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: And he was like about, the guy was in his
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: eighties and it was just this building just this kind
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: of loft above near her really the metal medieval kind
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: of old buildings and it was just full of maps
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: and old rocks up to the ceiling i was with
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: one of my close mates at the time he drove
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: me up there and i was like oh man this
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: is just meant to be this guy's the real deal
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: and he traveled around the world and he done lots
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: of sailing and geology and he was absolutely fascinating and
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: then he drove me around to where the trophy was
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: stored And I was like, honestly, one of the best
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: moments of my life because there's a lot of years
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: of saving to make it happen. And I finally got it.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And it's always a scary, like you've been about to
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: meet your heroes. And I remember when I drove it home,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I said out loud, if I sell a vehicle, it
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: won't be this one. I actually said that even though
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I have such a love for my Synchro because it
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: just suddenly was like, I can see the world in this.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: And the Troopy has, and I know people say the
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: 1HZ is not very powerful, but It really is so relative.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I remember once I got corrected and rightly so by
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Aquila world, you know, these guys with a big blue
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: old Mercedes, incredible people as well. And I remember saying
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: to them once in the synchro, oh, I can only
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: do 20 miles an hour up these mountain passes. And
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: they're like 20 miles an hour. That's crazy fast. How
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: can you do that? They're like, we're at 10. And
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I think that was the thing with the one who said,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: and I bought that thing. It'd been in storage for
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: two years. And I just got in it, did servicing,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: changed the cam bell, changed the fluids. And I didn't
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: have a ton of time. And it had a KEA
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: conversion inside. Pretty old, but perfect again to our point.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Made it work perfectly fine. And I drove that straight
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: to the top of the car.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: And it has a pop top.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Pop top, full length pop top, a really nice interior.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: And it just, they've really, it's one of those conversions
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: where they've clearly done a lot of them and they
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: just know what works. You look at it, like, I
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: don't really know how I would change this. I think
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: they've done a great job. Maybe some of the materials
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: are a bit old now, but it works super well.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And I had made a promise to myself. I thought
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: if I buy this and it's already got a conversion
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: in it, I don't want to start ripping it out
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and spending money. This is here to get me around
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: the world and to do ambitious trips. I don't want
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: to spend like a crazy amount of money. I'd done
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: that with the Syncro and I was like, I'm going
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: to make this work. I did a lithium battery upgrade
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: and I made some improvements, just simple things like the
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: gas struts on the pop top were absolutely knackered. I
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: needed a way to get a sea kayak on the
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: roof as well. So it needed to be a bit
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: more powerful. And just some very small, modest changes. And
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: then I drove it to the top of Norway. And
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: then I drove it straight from Norway within about a
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: week to the border to Montenegro. And then we did
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: about the best part of 1,000 miles of trails. And
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: then I drove it home. And I think that just
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: sums up the trip. It didn't give me a single issue,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: 1,000 miles of range, you know, from the factory pretty much.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I know, like I said, I'm just yappering on.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: But I love that.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: There's a lot to love about a Land Cruiser. It's
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: the one.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: And I like to say this a lot in my life,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: but it is the one decision that removes a thousand decisions.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of times as humans, we
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: pursue novelty. Certainly me being born in December, I pursue
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: travel and novelty, but it is the one decision that
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: removes a thousand decisions. It's made specifically for that job
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: of traveling around the world. So now you have something
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that you don't have to think about anymore. You don't
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: have to wake up in the morning and say, I
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: bought the Prado, but I really should have bought the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: 70 series. Or I bought the 200 and I really
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: should have bought the 70 series. You don't have to
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: worry about that anymore. Now you get to just plan
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: your trips and go.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I think that when you get behind the,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you have the same experience when
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: you do Expedition 7, but you get into the, for me,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: with the Trupee, it's built, you can tell this isn't
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: made for the average person. It's not like a recreational vehicle.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: You go and go, this thing is built This has
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: real intention. Everything about it is so utilitarian. It reminds you, like,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: when I drove the Synchros, when are we done for
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: the day? This is a long journey. I'm tired. I'm hot.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: We need to pull over now. We should have pulled
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: over yesterday. Whereas with the Troopy, when you do a
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: big journey, it's, oh, you'll.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: Wear out way before the car.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, yeah. It's kind of like, I thought we
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: were going on a journey. This is pathetic. I really
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: love that about it. And like you said, I think
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: you put it perfectly that it removes those 1,000 decisions.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: If you buy a Land Cruiser, and it doesn't have
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: to be a Troopy, but I think a lot, just
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Toyota in general, it does remove a lot of that
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: decision-making because you are focused on the journey and the
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: destination and just being really absorbed in your adventure as
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: opposed to being tied into the constant things. And I
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: think that, of course, we all love the old Land
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Rovers and I love the Syncro and I love all
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: these quirky cars. Yes, I want to drive around the
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: world in like an Alfa Romeo or something like that.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: It's awesome. But I think unless you're like a creator
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: or YouTuber where, those breakdowns are an awesome part of
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the story and you're probably going to get engagement because
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: of that i think a lot of the time it's
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: never that convenient because i was talking to clay about
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: this the other day when they've got the milestones and
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: for those that don't know that thing is such an
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: oil machine the amount of work and time that goes
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: into that is just extraordinary and they don't have time
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: for those type of inconveniences that's a huge setback and
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: in my own life because i've worked so much i've
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: often run like two or three jobs at a time
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: When I have my trips, I don't really want to
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: have a breakdown. It's nice to romanticize the idea of,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: you know, rolling up your sleeves and getting stuck in.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: But so often the time is so precious and I
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: want to spend as much of that exploring the cultures
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: and people and destinations. And the Land Cruiser, I haven't
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: had to do anything. It just works.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: And what year is the Land Cruiser?
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Mine's a 2006.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so think about it. It's a 20-year-old car and
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: it drives like a brand new vehicle.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: It really does. And yeah, the 1HZ is obviously legendary.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: And you only notice the power of that motor when
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: you're in the first world countries. Like when you're trying
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: to go down the M1, of course, you're like, I
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: wish I had a little more power. As soon as
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: you hit Morocco, you're not gonna you won't even notice
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: it it like it will be a non-issue.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I totally agree and i think the thing is as
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: well actually we shouldn't really i don't think we want
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: to have vehicles that are too powerful when you're lugging
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: that much weight you have a lot of responsibility as
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: well and you know you want to be driving quite
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: slow you're aware i think the troop is almost a
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: bit scarier than the synchro in some respects because it
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: feels so much like a car because it's quite narrow,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: quite compact. And you'll go around a corner sometimes and go,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: oh God, this is heavy actually. And I think that
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: same with these super powerful, I was just looking at
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: the Tundras. It's crazy how powerful the new Tundra is.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: And I think you could get yourself into a lot
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: of trouble because unfortunately you can't escape mass. Like you
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: can do a lot of modifications and they've done some
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: incredible ones, but you're also aware that this is a
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: big vehicle. And with that comes a lot of responsibility.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: And I think I try to just keep at the
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: speed of lorries and trucks, honestly. And just, yeah, because-
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: to brake or to do a sudden maneuver, dynamic maneuver,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: you want to know that you're not going too fast.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: And I think that having a vehicle that doesn't even
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: allow you to do that is helpful sometimes.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: And a special thanks to Midland Radio for supporting this
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: week's podcast. When the trail takes you farther, clear communication
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: keeps your crew connected.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Meet the new Midland MXT295 Pro. Micromobile.com.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: GMRS two-way radio.
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: With a reliable 15 watts of power, hideaway base unit,
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: and Midland's first ever fully integrated wireless Bluetooth microphone, essential
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: controls are right in your hand and cable-free, giving you
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: the freedom to communicate on the move.
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: Compact, capable, and ready for your next adventure, the MX-T295
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: Pro is.
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: Keeps communication close wherever the route takes you stay connected
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: go farther midland thanks again midland.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: People are always scared of the wrong thing they're scared
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: of banditos or something like that and in all of
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: my travels i've only had that happen one time yeah
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: and but what you should be afraid of is driving
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: too fast and that's the last thing that people think
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: about because everybody unfortunately everyone is convinced that they're a
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: good driver but unless you've been through professional driving training
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: where you've actually done limit handling and you've learned how
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: to correct for oversteer and understeer. If you haven't had
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: genuine training around that, then you're just an average driver.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: So you need to drive at average speeds. And I
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: think that's the thing that people should be afraid of
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: when they're traveling is all of that mass.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Like you said, that Land.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Cruiser you've got is probably 8,000 pounds going down the road,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: maybe nine.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I'll have to do the conversion. I'm working on the
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: correct British metrics.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: How many stones is your life?
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Let's back it up a little bit. What was the
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: first moment that you remember in your life where you
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: felt that spark of desire to see beyond your village
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: where you grew up in the UK, where you were like,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I want to go further? What was that spark that
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: really kicked that off for you?
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: When I was growing up at school, I was always,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I think I've always, we were chatting about this earlier on,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I'm a bit of a stoic, but also I love
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: talking to people and I'm sociable, but I'm also quite
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: on my own a lot of the time. And I
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: think bicycle touring really, it was like the first vehicle
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: of freedom was a bicycle. And both of my parents
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: are just, I'm like, I don't want to do it
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: and I get well up, but I'm so lucky to
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: have amazing parents. So you want to talk about winning
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: the lottery in life, having a good family.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Just wow.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's huge. Yeah. I'm so lucky. And I,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: My dad always did a lot of bicycle touring growing
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: up and he really got me riding a lot as
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: did my mum as well. Both are really keen but
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: my dad did a lot of camping on the bicycle
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: when he was a kid and that was the first
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: kind of vehicle of freedom so to speak. So chucking
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: stuff on the bike, cheap panniers, learning the hard way
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: that they leak and getting out into the countryside whereas
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: a lot of people were going out on their Friday
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: and Saturday out to the bars and stuff. I was
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: out camping and being out with a group of friends
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: that really liked that. So we used to go have
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: a barbecue on the beach, go kayaking, and then go
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: bicycle touring and camp out and stuff like that. So
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: that was the first real freedom thing. And it's also
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: in my family's history as well, because my mom's family
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: from her grandparents, they were actually gypsies. They lived in
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: horse-drawn carts, which is amazing. A lot of people don't
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: realize that we have a really long history on my
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: mom's side. And so it's, and I didn't really know
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: a ton about that when I was growing up. It
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: was only when I got later on, my dad was
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: in the fell in love with a gypsy woman there's
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: a black sabbath song about that looked in there there's
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: a line it's like looked into her eyes and it
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: was oh my mom had him that was it and
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: yeah he's so they were like her grandparents were particularly
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: in world war one and world war two they had
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: a role of taking care of the horses because obviously
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: that was a big part of the society then and
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: obviously later on more moved into housing and stuff like
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: that so i think it's always been in my blood
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: and i've always been just forever curious about what's around
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: the next corner that was for me where the bicycle
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: started it and i started to feel that you hear
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: those statistics that most people don't leave their hometown they
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: live and die there and i don't think there's anything
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: wrong with that because comparison is a thief of joy
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: just because you see someone traveling around the world they're
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: probably thinking about you back home with your family and
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: friends around you and thinking the same thing you had
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: an appetite for exploration and adventure from a really young
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: age and just camping out under the stars realizing i
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: think i realized really early on mainly thanks to my
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: parents that most of the things that are really important
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: in life they're not gold plated.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: No not at all but i mean marketers companies do
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: a really good job of making us feel like we're
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: missing out i know by not having that fancy new
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: thing so it's something that i certainly struggle with me
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: too every day is trying to be focused on experiences And,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm fortunately I'm reminded when I get to do.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Things that, yeah, this is what it's all about.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: It's certainly not about having something super expensive. Like if
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: we had started this trip with two brand new motorcycles,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: literally the cost of the bikes, the cost of a
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: new 1300 and a new nine 50 adventure. with all
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: of the stuff on it, would be more than the
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: trip is going to cost.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Just the bikes.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: And you ask yourself, would that really fancy bike, would that,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: or do you think that having those slightly cheaper bikes
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: has diminished the experience?
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: I think it's made it better.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: And fortunately, the motorcycle that I'm riding, it's vintage now,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: which I love that. So it's got a steel tank.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: And so I love the kind.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Of the vintage.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: It's great for photos.
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: So to me, I'm actually, I'm loving it. And it
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: was fantastic.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: And I got it from Matt, Matt Scott. I bought
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: the bike from him. So it was my buddy's bike.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I get to take his bike around the world and
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: it was cost 2,500 bucks.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Matt Scott, he's the guy to go to for vehicles.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I love Matt and speak to him a lot as well.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: There's certain people you need to be kept apart from
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: because you're just chin wag all day. So I love
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: the fact he's always got some cool vehicle on the go.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: If you ever have a chance to buy a used
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: vehicle from Matt Scott, do it.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: That's my recommendation.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: He does all the spending and then you get it
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: when it's absolutely dialed and he's ready to move it on.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: So not only that, but he detailed the bike. Like
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: when I got it from him, it looked like it
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: was brand new.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: I can believe that. Yeah.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: It was so clean. Like he'd remove the tank and everything.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: It was unbelievable. But I think you're right. I think
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: find an appropriate tool, which fortunately motorcycles are cheaper to
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: begin with. My motorcycle is basically the same age as
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: your Land Cruiser and a BMW GS is a Land
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Cruiser of motorcycles. So it's an easy decision and it's
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the one decision that removed a thousand other things because
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: it was ready.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: To go and I could just leave on it.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: And the GS is such a good choice. I love
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: motorbikes as well. I actually got to a point in
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: my life where I just realized I cannot afford another hobby.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: I just can't do it. I've played guitar since I
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: was young. I love sea kayaking, bikes, vehicles, cameras. And
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I realized, Jack, you need to rein this in because
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I can't afford it anymore. And I will be begging
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: on the street. I need to just know when to stop.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: But motorbikes are very cool. My dad has a bike
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: as well. And yeah, I love them. I think the
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: UK though is, particularly hectic on the road and i
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: think that scares me i think the thing with motorbikes
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: and not to put you guys off because you're doing
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: this amazing trip but it's the one big was one
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: hobby where an accident on that could potentially affect all
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: my other hobbies because they can be and that's obviously
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: why you have to concentrate i don't think that should
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: dictate whether you have one or not but certainly in
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: the uk where the roads are so narrow it's so
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: busy we've had a lot of conversations since i've been
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: here in montana the space you guys have here in
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: in north america is so it's different it is different
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: yeah and I'm very envious of that. Yeah.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I've definitely been down roads, two lane roads in the
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: UK that are smaller than one of our lanes in
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: the US.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: And it's a 60 mile an hour thing as well.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: You come around that, you've got to expect, I always
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: say to people, you've got to expect there's going to
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: be a tractor coming around there with some cows or something,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: but that doesn't stop people doing it. There's a good
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: few 18 year olds flying around in little one liter
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Renault Clios and stuff.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Same here. It's the same here. Yeah.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I give an 18-year-old their first car. Mine lasted about
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: three minutes.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: You started off on the bike. What was the most
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: ambitious of the bicycle touring trips that you've done so far?
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: What was the one that you look back on and
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: you're really proud of?
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: It's a difficult question because it's not when somebody says,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: how far is it? And they'll go, oh, it's like
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: 10 miles. And you say, but that's not the metric
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: to take because the time, it actually takes a lot.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Some roads are much more difficult than others. Sure.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: So I.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: The longest one I did, I think probably in one
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: go is I, as soon as I finished university, I
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: just rode from the top of the UK to the bottom,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: like just straight.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Off the bat, That's awesome. Which was really cool. From
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: John O'Groats.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: John O'Groats to Land's End.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: Amazing.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: And we didn't just go the normal way. I actually
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: went with my friend Mo, who came to Black Forest
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: as well. And we didn't just go like direct point
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: to point. It was, in fact, incredibly selfish. Mo, if
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: you're listening, he decided that for Scotland, we were going to,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: because he wasn't doing the whole journey. He was going
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: to finish, I think, in maybe Glasgow or something like that.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: So he planned his ultimate Scottish adventure ride there. knowing
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: that i was still maybe just a small section of
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: the total distance yeah so we were zigzagging on all
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: of the crazy gravel tracks and stuff for a long
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: time and then he's like i'm going home now enjoy
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: the rest of it.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: So you're only a third of the way through.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly thinking oh great i remember him leaving thinking
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: oh he's only with the penny kind of drop thinking
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: we've done double the distance i'm like one third of
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: the way so that was a really cool trip and
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: that It also, I think what was valuable about John
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: O'Groats Land's End is, and it's just a reminder on
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: the bicycle, it doesn't matter what vehicle you have, you're
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: just doing one pedal in front of the other. You're
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: not thinking about the total distance. In terms of things
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: that have been really challenging, there's been quite a few, honestly,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: where with bicycle touring, being in the vehicle, it's hot,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: you're bothered, but human powered adventures, it's a different ball
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: game because you are the engine. So The amount of
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: weight you will lose in a week in a hot
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: climate going up extremely steep gradients and stuff. And you
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: can be on a climb for hours and hours. And
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I personally love that. I love torturing myself and I
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: love just pushing my body to the absolute limit. I
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: think that there's, it's because when I come back to
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: normal life, everything else feels easy after that. Putting yourself
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: in a position where you've got a really heavy bicycle, you're,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: oftentimes you, you, I get off, I've learned to protect
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: my knees and If I can't ride faster than I
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: can walk on a really steep grain, I'll just push
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the thing because I think, okay, I've got, I've got
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: to be on this bike for say two weeks. So
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: I don't want to burn myself out too early.
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: A couple of.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: And you're carrying all of your fuel too. You're carrying
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: your own water and your own calories on the bike. Oh, absolutely.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. And that can really add up to
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: a lot of weight really quick, especially in hot climates
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: where you're taking like six liters of water and you're
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: just drinking so often that, and you're sweating so much,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: you get through it really quickly. One thing that's funny
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: though with my bike, and it's almost like a point
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: of shame because I will cut my toothbrush in half,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: but then have a 1976 Raleigh Flex camera that's like
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: a metal brick because I will suffer for my art.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: And I love photography sort of hand in hand with
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: bicycle touring or any trip I do. And so there'll
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: be like people with me like, what's he got in
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: his bags? Because I know he's only got half a toothbrush.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I'm like, don't look, don't look in that one. It's
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: full of metal cameras.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: And just one of those lenses can be pounds.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, Honestly, it is shameful. Just for this trip, I
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: bought an arsenal of cameras with me, but I just
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: can't help myself. I'm wearing the same underpants for the
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: entire Montana trip, but I'll burn those when I get back.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: But the cameras, I'm like equipped, let's say.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Remember one particular ride. I think it links into some
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: of the things we've spoken about before, but I did
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: a ride in Iceland and this was one where I
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: got a bit into trouble. Let's say that was a
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: tough ride. Really interesting. Taught me a lot of lessons
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: quite early on. I was bikepacking, and obviously there's a
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: distinction to be made between sort of traditional bicycle touring
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: where you might have four panniers, you're sticking to the road,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: much like, let's say, grand touring and overlanding. So I
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: would have the bikepacking bike set up to be more
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: on rough terrain with oversized tires and a bit of
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: a lighter setup. I was trying to ride from basically
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Vic kind of area to Ackery, so straight across the
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: middle of the Icelandic highlands. But I didn't want to
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: go the generic F road route. So I made this
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: kind of complicated zigzag across the highlands. And there was
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of river crossings on that route. And it
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: was three problems right off the bat. It was too
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: early in the season. They had exceptionally high temperatures. So
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: you had a lot of snow melt. And you also
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: had heavy rain as well. So they'd had this combination.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: So from the beginning, I was underprepared. I didn't have
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: enough food, really. And as I set off, I'd made
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: an already extremely challenging route, like way harder. It was
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: just madness, to be honest, looking back. But quite early on,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I started to realize there was a lot of river crossings.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: And I was getting wet and I was getting cold.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: And every time I got over a river, I thought, okay,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I think that was maybe the last one. And they
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: were getting bigger and scarier each time. And I made
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: a contingency plan. There was a point, I think, maybe
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: a couple of days in where I realized, okay, this
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: could be getting a bit sketchy. So I'm going to
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: look and see if I can hook off of this
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: kind of minor track to one of the more serious F-roads.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: And then I started to get on this, the last
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: bit of the second day, I, the rivers were getting
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: to a point where I was having to portage stuff
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: over like one bit at a point, like one part
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: at a time, carrying the bike above my head. The
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: banks were steep as well as you almost dragging yourself over.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: And I thought I'd gotten to the last river and
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I realized I can go back. I was tired. There
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: were so many rivers behind me at this point. I
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: felt like I had to keep pushing forward to this
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: kind of, and I had realized I needed to hook
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: up to a more serious F road and not take
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: all these trails. And I come over the Braves Hill
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: and this river was just enormous. Like I can't cross that.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Too ferocious, too wide. I'm going to kill myself and
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: get dragged down the river. I also realized I was
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: starting to get really cold and everything was wet. So
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: you go into damage management mode. So I set up
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: the tent in the middle of these two rivers and
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: it's this mossy ground. Straight away was a problem because
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: water was coming up through the bottom of the tent.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: It was so damp everywhere. So I took off. Before
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I did that, I started to think maybe this is
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: a bad situation, but it's funny when you're in real peril,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: you don't really, I don't know if it's a British thing,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: but you're like, oh, I don't want to bother somebody.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I can't possibly ring for help. I'll be fine. So
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't, I didn't send out any sort of warnings
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: or anything like that, but I did see that there
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: was big tracks where there were the big super jeeps
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: have been crossing at some point. So I got the
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: biggest rocks I could, and I made like a line
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: across this track. And then I got into my tent.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: I took off.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: I was just in my underwear and like a t-shirt
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: trying to get my sleeping bag, trying to get warm.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And I will, I remember. I just remember starting to
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: shake quite a lot and trying to just keep myself
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: calm and get warm. And I had ways to call people,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: but I didn't know what, at what point do you
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: know how, when you've not been in that situation, you
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: don't know, is this normal? Am I just a bit
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: too cold or whatever? And about four hours later, and
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: it was in the middle of the day, I was
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: just trying to get warm. I heard a kind of
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: noise outside and I opened the tent a little bit,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: looked out and there was a huge Mercedes Sprint, like
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: super cheap with some ranges in it. I couldn't believe it.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe my eyes. It was like hallucinating or something.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: And I thought I couldn't have been that lucky because
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I was in the middle of absolutely nowhere. And so
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I opened the tent and I was in my underwear.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: So I ran over a little bit because I did
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: not want them to drive. I was like, this is
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: my ticket out of here. And there was these two big,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: cause Icelandic.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Dudes are huge, huge.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: And he just, the windows came down and he's like,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and he just looked out and I was like in
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: my pants shaking and he just looked so confused. And
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: I went to tell him what happened. And I just
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: couldn't speak. It was just my jaws. And they just
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: realized probably I was starting to get a hypothermia or
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: not in a good state. So he, they grabbed my stuff,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: chucked me in the back of this huge super Jeep.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: and they got me in the back and I was
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: sitting cold behind the seat and they just both turned
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: over big arms look over and they just handed me
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: a beer and was like you are so lucky but
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: they didn't use those words they used some profanities but
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: in fairness they did say to me I hadn't done
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: anything wrong it was that route had just been hit
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: by they had struggled in the super jeep so they
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: were like this has been a real problem for us
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: as well but great tip not a great tip but
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: I then got to spend, cause they couldn't go back
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: to the main road straight away. They were restocking some
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: of the emergency shelters. I got to spend two or
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: three days with the Icelandic kind of search and rescue.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: It was great.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: That is a great story.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: You'd have paid a lot of money for that experience.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: And I got it free. All you have to do
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: is get hypothermia and a great holiday.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: So that was awesome.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: So that was definitely going to your point to circle back.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: I'm a real chatterbox as well. So I'm the worst
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: guest for a podcast, but.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: No, it makes you the best guest. That's the point
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: is for you to tell us these stories.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Now, what are some of the key takeaways that you,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: because you've done a lot of bikepacking.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: What are some of the things that you've learned in
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: bikepacking that you've translated over to your travels in the
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Land Cruiser?
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, taking too many cameras, that'll be one. But no,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I think a big one is if you can live
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: off a bicycle with those things, it should be easy
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: technically to live out of a vehicle because I can
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: live for a year off with the stuff on the bicycle,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: the sleeping bag, the kit. So if I can fit
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: that on these small little bike bags, I should be
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: able to live in comfortably in almost any car as
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: a luxury. Then if you can sleep inside the car,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: I should be able to store that stuff. Somehow it
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: still seems to scale up however much hard you try.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of that's well, cause tools and
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: spare parts take equipment and inevitably once you have a vehicle,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: you're going to take, you've got the opportunity to do
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: more hobbies and things. So it does balloon out a
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: little bit, but I.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Think a big, you have three coffee makers.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to say that on this podcast, Scott,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: but if you're going to bring it up.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, actually three. Cause I do have one of those
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: filter ones too.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: I am incredibly, I'm a real awful hypocrite because I'm
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: telling people like, yeah, keep it light, keep it safe. Yeah.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: And then I'm thinking, am I in a more of
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: an Americano or an espresso mood? I have a, I
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: think though that those small creature comforts when you're living
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: in the vehicle full time, those little things, they do
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: make all the difference. So allow myself some lead way
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: on that, but it does get a bit over the top.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And Richard Giordano, if you're listening to this, I know
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not the only one. So I'm going to drag
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: and throw him under the bus as well.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Coffee is life. Coffee is life. Exactly.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that would probably be a big one is
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: I think just trying to keep your pack list as
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: minimal as possible because that clutter inside the vehicle will
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: drive you insane. That's the thing, keeping it light, just
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: having the things you need. That really helps because otherwise
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: just having to move things from the front seat to
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the back seat, it seems silly, but when you're doing
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: every single day, I just want to stop, park my
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: vehicle and be ready to camp. That's how I want
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: my stuff set up. It doesn't always end that way.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: And the Troopy is tight for space actually, for me
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: with my interests. As soon as you have kayaking stuff
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: like dry suits, safety equipment, paddles, all those kinds of
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: things that they're bulky. So that could be a problem. Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: And I would think also.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Doing bike packing, which I've always been really interested in
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: the idea of doing that. And I hope I can
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: do that in the next couple of years, just try
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: that out. But I would think it would also help
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: you recalibrate the speed at which you go through a country.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Because you on a bicycle, you're maybe averaging 18, 20
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: miles a day, 20 miles an hour, excuse me.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: So something like that. Yeah.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: In terms of, I think your first estimate was ideal,
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: like in the sense that you're probably doing anywhere With bikepacking,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: especially bicycle touring is a little bit different because you're
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: on the road. So you can carry a pretty good
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: average speed then. You might be at 15, between 10
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: and 15 miles per hour. Bikepacking can be really slow.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: If you're on steep gradients, the tracks are just atrocious,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: like really rutted. You're on kind of a goat path
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: in Greece or something, or in Italy, it can be
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: very slow and then it can be just like 20 miles.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: But then you could have these days where you're doing
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: over a hundred if you're on the road and stuff.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: I always try to start really early in the morning
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: and just trying to beat the heat as well in
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: those kinds of places. But to your point, it really
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: slows you down. And I think you have to be
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: very good at... I'm terrible at it. It's why my
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: account on Instagram, by the way, is called Bicycle Touring
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Apocalypse because everything I do is usually a disaster. I
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: don't even know why I'm on the podcast, honestly. This
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: is terrible. Everything I give you is terrible advice. But
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I feel that you have to be good at knowing
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: when to stop for cam because you know it's even
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: in the vehicle. You sometimes see a good cam spot,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: you think, oh, I'll find another one down the road.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: And it's a problem in a vehicle, but it's an
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: even bigger problem on the bicycle because... You again, you're
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: the engine. So I always feel like it's important. If
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: you see a good spot, like later afternoon, and you're
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: not sure if you're, especially in some countries in Europe
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: where you don't necessarily have easy places to camp, it's
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: good to take advantage of that. And you think about
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: it because so many times I've ended up so similar
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: to this. It really is like a human powered overland.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: There's so many comparable elements, but you don't want to
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: be riding into the dark. It's a nightmare. You're trying
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: to find somewhere to camp. It's pitch black. you keep
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: telling yourself you're going to find something around the next
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: corner and it goes on and on. And I've had
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of really late nights doing that. And I still,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: I'm still trying to learn that skill, but it's important
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: to know when to stop. And yeah. And to your
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: point about the cultures on a good, too far off topic,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: I think it, it does slow you down. And I
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: know there's a lot, I have so much appreciation and
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: respect for people that are doing like the Silk Road
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: mountain race, these high endurance, big, really fast paced bike
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: packing and bicycle races. But for me, that's not really
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: the stuff I enjoy. I enjoy stopping at the local
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: little hamlet of village houses in the mountains and trying
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: to find out who lives there and getting photos of
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: locals and chatting with them and just learning. It's really
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: helped me understand how wonderful humans are. I love there was,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I think it was actually Eva Zubek had heard her say,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's her quote, but she said
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: that you can find bad people anywhere, but you can
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: find good people everywhere. And I love that. I think
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: that it's so true. I've only ever been met with
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: just the most amazing people that are always willing to
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: give you the coat of their back to help. It
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter where you are. That's just common ground. That
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: really gives me, I really feel like it allows you
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: to put aside so much of the stuff that we're
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: shown on the news. It's really sensationalized to make us
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: feel fear towards one another. And actually people are really lovely.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: They just want to love their families.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. They want the same things.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: And I think in my experience, um, It seems like
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: that the bike packing is probably the, that perfect Delta
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: of travel purity and a little bit of pace. So
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I would think that you would experience more if you
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: were walking, but you wouldn't, it would be hard to
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: get anywhere. Whereas on a bicycle, you're traveling at three
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: or four times the pace of walking typically. So I
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: think that there's a lot to be said around backpacking
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: or bikepacking. I think people would probably become better overlanders
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: if they at least tried some bikepacking, realize how little
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: that they needed, slow down, look around, stop, smell the
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: roses because you need to, you need to take a break.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: And whereas on the vehicles, we can really consume a
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: lot of kilometers quickly.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I think that's said perfectly. I think I
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: really like hiking as well, but it just gives you
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: that extra bit of pace just to get around a
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: bit quicker and the thing is you can still walk
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the bike so it's just almost like your back because
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: backpacking bikepacking is a bit of a play on words
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: you're having what you'd have on your back but on
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: the bike it's bikepacking so I think that it just
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: allows you to have the kind of the best of
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: both worlds in a way there's I don't feel like
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: I've been restricted much by having the bicycle with me
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I've pushed my bike over a lot of the mountains
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: that I would probably have hiked so I love that
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: And it's also fun going down big descents. You can
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: hit some pretty gnarly speeds on a bicycle as well.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: And it can get a bit sketchy sometimes. I always
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: have to remind myself that you're in a pair of
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: sometimes even sandals, which I don't do that, kids, because
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: it's dangerous. But you're not in motorbike leathers and a helmet.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: You're in shorts and a vest listening to Led Zeppelin
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: on your headphones and you've got to pay attention.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, bicycles were my first love for sure. like
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: well before I got a car. I love bicycles. So
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I'd love to at least try a couple bikepacking trips
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: just to gain that experience.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I think you would love it, honestly.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: It'd be good for me.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I will get a call being like, this was terrible.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Why did you send me here? But I think it
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: will really make you... It seems like one of the
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: things you haven't explored yet in terms of vehicle stuff. Obviously,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you grew up with bicycles, but I think
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: it's a really.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I think as well anyone who wants to get into
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: bikepacking don't necessarily take the most brutal hardest trip first
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: much like overlanding again go out there and fall in
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: love with it I think that's the mistake a lot
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: of people make with camping and a lot of things
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: is they get super ambitious right off the bat and
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: they're not maybe fully prepared and then the experience isn't
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: great you want to just start a bit smaller maybe
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: and just fall in love with something super easy could
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: just be a weekend ride or something and then build
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: it up from there as opposed to dragging your family
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: and kids or your significant other And then doing some,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: I'm going to ride to Mongolia next week without any
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: form of planning.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, man.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it does look like a really important way
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: to travel and see things at a different pace for sure.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: We can't have this podcast without me asking this question
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: because I think it's just absolutely fascinating. But as I
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: understand it, you paid for university by being a model.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: So tell us, how did that happen?
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I also told the team not to bring this
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: up specifically on the podcast because it's so embarrassing, but yeah.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: And it really is. I want to tell people I
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: never ever planned to do anything like that. But when
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I was, I was, it's really not.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: Your fault that you're a handsome guy. It's just, it's.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know what they saw in me I wasn't
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: handsome I just had I looked weird I think there's
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: a difference people have to understand that it's not about
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: being handsome it's that I look like a freak and
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: they said that's the person we need that's that's high
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: fashion for you there's a difference between the catalog models
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: that like super chiseled and handsome and the guy that
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I was at the time which was I was in
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: a band from when I was really young and I
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: had very long blonde hair and I was in London
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: with my mom and my sister and Someone came up
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: to my mum and was like, oh, we'd be maybe
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: interested in your boy because he's got, he looks like
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: a freak. Not to those words, but I was quite
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: androgynous looking and long blonde hair. And at first I
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: thought it was probably just a scam, but it ended
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: up being one of the agents for Kate Moss and stuff,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: which was really crazy. And they sent me to the office.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And most parents would be a bit concerned about exploiting
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: their kids. But my mum was like, make money out
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: of him immediately. That was the way she, both my
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: parents were like, we can make money out of our son.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Let's do it. So they marched me down there and said,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: you take this job. And yeah, it was interesting. I
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: think for me, what I loved about that world was
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: just being around extremely creative people. And yeah, I got
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: to have some pretty crazy experiences and traveled a bit
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: with that as well. And I was, yeah, I actually
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: changed my name because I didn't want people and my
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: friends at school to know I did it. Because if
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: there was any rumors, they wouldn't be able to find
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: my portfolio online. And yeah, so I did that and
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: I would, like, we were chatting a bit about it
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: earlier on. It was funny because I hadn't even really
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: had a girlfriend and I was walking down a catwalk
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: in speedos. I was really self-conscious and introverted, but it's
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: funny when one thing I know about myself is that
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: in like any sort of high stress environment and stuff,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: like I can keep super calm and just make it happen.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: I think that's, what's helped me with guiding and stuff
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: in the future. Like later on, I don't freeze. And
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: so even though I felt super self-conscious and body conscious
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: and everything else, Because it was a job and they
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: were like, you're going to walk down this catwalk right
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: now or you're going to do– I had to do
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: a thing for Kylie Minogue once where I had to
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: do improvised dance with body paint on. I can't dance.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: With Kylie Minogue.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it was actually like if someone
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: had gone to a concert, they would have probably had
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: a long-haired blonde jack dancing. And I want to say dancing.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: I know people that can dance. I cannot dance.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: I'm with you. I'm with you.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: It was like a goblin from Lord of the Rings
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: kind of look. I hope to goodness that footage never
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: revisits because all of you will be like.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: You're probably lucky. It was probably just before social media.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: It was, yeah. And I think you guys have to
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: bring in Clay Rochelle and yourself will be like, I'm sorry, Jack,
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: we're going to have to let you go. We've seen
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: the video.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: The reason why I asked the question is actually one
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: of the loves of your life is photography. And As
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I understood the story, it gave you the chance to see,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: obviously you were in front of the camera, but it
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: gave you the chance to interact with these incredible photographers
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: that were behind the camera. How did that love for
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: photography start for you?
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it started earlier on because I always
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: felt if you have a camera, even if you go
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: on a local walk or something, you can create a
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: little mission. So particularly for me, it's been really helpful.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: If I'm in the middle of nowhere and I'm working
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: a seasonal job in the mountains, loneliness is a real
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: big thing and you need to know how to navigate that.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: And I can walk out of my door and say,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go out and get free photos. I'm
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: proud of it, even in my local area. And I
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: found that to be really valuable for me. And certainly though,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: as I did that from a kid, even if I
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: was out going for a walk with the dog or something,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: I would take a cheap camera around and be like,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try and find cool compositions. And I
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: think it just gives you, it's like a, almost like a,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: it sounds, it's like a friend almost you can take
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: with you. It keeps you occupied and you can engage
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: with it. But certainly with like that world, the fashion
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: industry and stuff, you get to know how they're using
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: light and these big rig cameras and just people how
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: they're creative how they set people up and I mean
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: if you're doing any sort of campaign now for any
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: brand where it's like awesome brands in the outdoor industry
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: there's a bit of how you set the shot up
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: to get the best out of it and stuff and
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: I learned a lot about how they did that and
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: I got to work with some awesome actually some automotive
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: stuff as well and yeah it was really interesting and
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: working with amazing photographers and the way they were just
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: there was a confidence to them in the way that
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: They know they've got this big client that's waiting on
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: them to do this. And just how they made it
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: happen was really inspiring.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: And it's really neat, Jack, to see how all of
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: these pieces fit together to create the life that you
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: now get to live. Obviously, you've had to make decisions
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: that have kept you from maybe being in your own home,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: but now you have your home on wheels. And it
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: was those early experiences with photography that made you a
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: better photographer and gave you that passion for That creative
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: expression for you. And you've done hundreds, if not a
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: thousand articles for Expedition Portal now.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Thousands, yeah.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: So you've learned to be able to make all of
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: these both creative outlets and adventure part of your vocation.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Being a young guy and having... been able to achieve
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: the things that you wanted to, like you wanted to
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: be in this place. You want to be in this space.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, so much.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: You want to be in this job. You now have
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: the job that you've always wanted. What advice would you
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: give to young people that are listening to this podcast
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: or someone who's looking for a career change? Like I
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: have some opinions on what I think helped make you successful,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: but I'd love to hear what your plan was to
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: get to this place.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: How did you get there?
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think some of it, I... I think people
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: need to give themselves a lot of grace and stuff.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: I think that society, comparison is the thief of joy.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: And I think that something that my dad always taught
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: me is that there's enough work for everyone and just
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: focus on being good at the things that you do.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: And I've always, first of all, I've always pursued my passions.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I've not chased the dollar sign. And some of it
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: as well, I think is, you can't plan everything. You
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: have to let the cards to some extent for where
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: they may. But I think for young people that are
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: starting out, I think it's just important to take a
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: step back and think about what things you just value
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: in your everyday life and how you can maybe, and
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: things you enjoy and how, where you can find that
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: in a career. I think there's a lot of, it's
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: a difficult question, actually. I'm trying to think about the
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: best way to approach this. I've just always followed the
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: things that I loved and it's been serendipitous a little bit.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: I've The way that my life has unfolded has been
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: funny twists and turns and stuff. But I've always just stayed.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: I've never worried about what other people are doing around me, basically.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: And it can be a bit scary because people are
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: getting a lot further ahead. They've got the big house.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: They've got the fancy car. And it's easy to look
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: at those things and think, oh, man, maybe I should
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: be doing that. But you often talk to these people
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: and maybe they've all got their own struggles and they've
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: all got their own stuff going on. And they've got.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: To make those payments every month.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: And that is a big thing I will say, actually.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: And it's a great point, Scott, is that we're set
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: up in society now that there's a saying you might
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: know better than I do, but it's like you won't
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: own anything and you'll be happy or like you end
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: up renting everything. I would say that keeping my costs
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: low has allowed me to do a lot more, to
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: be a bit more of a risk taker. So I
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: have such low overheads that I can take that crazy
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: job overseas. I can do that. And I think it's
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: been really empowering for me as well because my overheads
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: have been so low at points that I can take
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: a minimum wage job and I'm like totally fine. I
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: don't have to worry. Whereas if you do have the
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: really expensive car payments and stuff, then you've got to
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: support that and you then feel locked into the job
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: that you maybe don't enjoy. So any ways that you
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: can keep your life a bit cheaper, just don't try
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: not to fall into those traps too much of putting
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: everything on a credit. I know that's really hard for
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of people. If you've got family payments and
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: things that are expensive, that's not always easy, but any
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: way that you can keep your costs a bit lower,
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: whatever you earn, it's easy to burn it as well.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: So I think that trying to keep costs, that's really
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: helped me. And that's also allowed me to be in
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: a position where when I'm pursuing the things I love,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: if I feel like I have to leave a bit
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: of a corporate job to, you know, for example, when
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: I started out doing this, I was doing articles for free,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: not with Overland Journal. And I want to make, actually,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: since Scott's on the podcast, Scott is such an absolutely
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: outstanding person and human. And when I started out, he's
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: always been All of our team have nothing but amazing
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: words to say about Scott. He always really supports us
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: all and gave us the opportunity to do more of
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: this and has always paid for all of our work
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: and time. But in the early stages, I was doing
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of articles for free, but because my outgoings
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: were lower, I could have a bit of part-time work
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: and just have the time to start working in the industry.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: And obviously doing work for free, it can be a
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: bit of a gray area.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: It depends.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: It did help me, honestly, to get my foot in
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: the door with a lot of companies and to have
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: something to show when I did go for paid work.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: But Yeah, I've tiptoed around this question. It's a difficult one,
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: but I think that keeping my costs low and also
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: just staying true to the things I love and not
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: comparing myself to others, because it's very easy to fall
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: into that trap of seeing people get, because I'm 35
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: years old and I'm on my own and I haven't
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: got the family and the big house and stuff like that.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: but I wouldn't have it any other way. But it's
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: easy in the process to pursuing a career in a
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: bit of an alternative space to feel like you're falling
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: very far behind. And that can catch a lot of
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: people and then they give up on the dream a
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: bit early just because of the social pressure. So that's
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: helpful for me.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: And think of the number of 35-year-olds, though, who wish
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: that they could be traveling around the world in a
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Land Cruiser.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: And you're right.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: So comparison can be the thief of joy. We need
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: to be thinking about what it is that we need,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: what brings us joy. And From my perspective, having watched
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: you over the last five years, you come into everything
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: that we do or we talk about doing together with
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of enthusiasm. And the other thing that I
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: think that you've done a great job of is they
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: say chop wood, carry water, and you'll do it. You'll
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: write an Expedition Portal classified article. Every single one of them,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: you find a unique hook. You find you take it seriously.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: You spend the time to do a good job.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: On the article.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: And that's difficult to do hundreds of times over, but
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: it shows a discipline. And it, what I, what it
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: comes across to me is that, you know, how important
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: this is to that person. They're trying to sell their vehicle.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe they need the money, or maybe they want to
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: upgrade into something different. And you take on the fact that,
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: you know, that this is important to them. And it
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: comes across in your writing. You find a way to
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: make it interesting every single time. even if it's the
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: third time or the fourth time that month you've written
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: about a sports mobile or whatever, you find a way
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: to make it interesting.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: And I think that this is what's so special about
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: the Overland Collective is that I am a vehicle addict.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: So anyone who contacts me knows that I have a problem.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: I'm here to help. Come to me. We can both
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: talk about why you're making that decision. With people that
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: come and use our classified service, like where I think
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: we're different to some of the other people in the
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: space is that I'm just like a dude on the
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: other end of the phone or email that wants to
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: help you sell the vehicle. We've got the biggest overlanding
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: demographic in the world, but it's not like a corporate
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: feeling service because it's just me and this person having
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: a conversation about it. And to your kind of point
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: about the hooks or the things about that I find
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: about the different things, it's because I've talked to that
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: person and I might talk to them about their sports
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: mobile and another person's sports mobile. Both of their use
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: cases are different. This is why this person has this one.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: This person has it for this reason. And you build
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: from that point onwards. But I think that it's just
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: everything I do has been just because I'm obsessed with it.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: The things I do in my life, I am obsessive with.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: And selling vehicles is one of those things I get
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: such a joy in helping our community members sell their
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: rigs as well. It's so satisfying.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Because this is a community.
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: And we're at the big thing right now. It's incredible.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Just people want to be here. The staff want to
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: be here. It's such a, feels so informal. I love
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: that about it. And we've been laughing because every night
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I've been trying to go to bed at a reasonable
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: time and there's just too many interesting people. You keep
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: looking at something and I have to be up so
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: early tomorrow.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and for people that are thinking about selling
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: their vehicles as well, we have an amazing forum and
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: that is free. You don't have to pay for a
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: service with us. If you feel like you need a
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: bit of extra help, that's where I'm here to help.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: But by all means, get on the forum first. Just
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: make sure that you're including. I always say to people,
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: our audience appreciates proven more than pristine. It doesn't have
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: to be sparkling or anything like that. But be sure
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: to share your story. Do an introduction on the forum.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: This is where I've taken it. This is why I
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: love this vehicle. And then make sure you're including as
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: much information as possible. And photos are key. You'd be
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: amazed how many people list a half a million pound
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: vehicle and it's one blurry iPhone photo. if someone's going
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: to part with their money for that, they need to
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: be able to see as much information as possible.
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: Give them as many photos as you can.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: And be really candid about the issues with the car
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: because the person's going to find that out.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: So you're, it's part about it's part of being a
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: good community member is when you go to sell a
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: vehicle everybody understands they're buying a used car they know
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be perfect there are some times
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: when vehicles are perfect that's true but most of the
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: time they've got some little thing about them or two
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: or three and make sure you disclose that stuff because
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you want that if you were spending a all
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: that money on a car, you'd want to know what
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: was wrong with it.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: And as travelers, that's.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: The reason why we need to know what's wrong with
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: it is because we're, our life may depend on that vehicle.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: If you don't disclose something and somebody breaks down someplace
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: really remote, it could be life threatening. Just say, Hey,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: you may want to take a look at the U
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: joints on the rear drive shaft. They're making a little
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: bit of noise. It's still working fine, but, and then
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: that person can make their own decision, but that disclosure.
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: Is really key.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. Honesty in life is a general rule as well.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Like honesty is the only policy. And I think that
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: you'd be amazed that if you're super, I think what's
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: interesting about that, you could be like, so instead of
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: people being like, this vehicle is perfect.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: Enjoy.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Most people are going to look at this and you're,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: maybe you're selling something and the wheels are falling off.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: It's like people know when they get in the Novaland vehicle,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: it's been used. And actually, unfortunately, a lot of vehicles
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: aren't used. That's a big thing with it. Don't buy
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: really expensive vehicles without trying the interest first. Cause I
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: know a lot of people that buy a vehicle and
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: then they're just selling it because they didn't know really
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: why they bought it. Take your time on what you
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: choose and buy used is a great way to get
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: into the space. But being honest goes a long way.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's funny how when you do get an
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: ad which goes, so this thing has been used. It
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: has this dent. This was from when I was in Baja.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I was in Alaska or whatever. Baja, I should say.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: This is from this and this. You'd be amazed. People
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: are so excited to get a vehicle and they know
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: they're going into them in most cases to fix it.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: If you buy an overland vehicle and you're going to
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: do any sort of serious trip, you know, if you've
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: got any sense, you're going to do some at least
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: basic maintenance.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: And to your point, don't put somebody's safety at risk.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: If the brakes are a bit spongy and they need addressing,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: just mention it because, The more honest you are, ironically,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: even if it's stuff that's broken, you're almost more likely
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: to make the sale.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: I would agree. I would totally agree. Because people, sorry.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: And that's for me, it's the same way.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Like when I bought that old Ford Carter from Nomad Wheel,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: I bought it from him and he's like, dude, these
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: are all the things.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: This has got that and it's got some rust over here.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: I just appreciate it. I was about ready to drive
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: it back from California with my dad in the car.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to know. And I said, let's take it.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Can you take it to the shop? And I'll pay
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: for these couple things to be addressed.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: And he was awesome about it.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: And I think you just want to know what's going on.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: But all right, let's pivot to kind of the wrap
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: up here. One of the things that we're trying to
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: do with the podcast, and Ashley will be asking the
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: same questions, but we want to start to ask a
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: series of questions that we can then curate this content
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: into other forms of editorial. So we've got these kind
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: of seven questions that we're going to ask. So it's
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a lightning round. You don't have
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: to provide a long answer, but things that you can
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: share with the audience. So the first of the questions is,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: what's the most intense moment you've ever had as a
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: traveler and what was your key learning around that?
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: That's a good question.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, other than having to walk down the catwalk
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: in Speedo, that would be a pretty intense moment.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty high on the list. Yeah, trying to
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: still work through that shame.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it's shame. There's no shame in
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: that game. It's just, that would be pretty intense.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: I think probably one of the most intense ones is
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: probably the Iceland experience was pretty intense. Yeah, that was
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: probably right up there. And I think weirdly, just for
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: the sheer significance, I would probably say as well for me,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: like sea kayaking in Norway, going out to like glaciers
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: and stuff and just being like totally... realizing that those
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: moments have cost not much money and that they will
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: stay with me for my entire life. There was actually
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: a big shout out to my friend, Thomas, who he's
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: called TF Bergen on Instagram. He's a really famous kayaker
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: and a GoPro ambassador. And he's taking me to some
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: of the most incredible places. And I remember being in
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: a place called Strin. I think, sorry for my Norwegian friends.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: I pronounced that horribly, I'm sure. I remember just being
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: with my friends on this turquoise blue glacial water and
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: In terms of a really significant moment that, yeah, that
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: will stay with me for my entire life. And it
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: just didn't cost any money really.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Just pure bliss. I think that was the question again, Scott.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: Well, you got the intense moment. What was your key
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: learning from Iceland? What was the thing you really took
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: away from that Iceland experience?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: I think preparation is key and also understanding, understanding it's
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: okay to turn back. If in doubt, don't. I think
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: it's important. I think that really applies, especially to trail
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: driving as well. I've been in those scenarios where there's
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: so many times where you've gone and been a bit
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: ambitious and I'm sure you can speak to this. You
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: think I had a choice at a point to turn
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: back and now I don't know why I'm up here
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: and now it's really scary. So I think that the
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: big take home from Iceland was just, understanding that if
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: you start to think this is getting bad don't keep
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: like pushing on hoping it's going to get better just
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: take stock and it's a bit like when you're stuck
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: and you need to recover a vehicle probably the best
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: thing you can do is stop and make a cup
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: of tea and look at the situation and not have
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: that immediate gut reaction of i need to fix this
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: right now full blast full because that's when accidents happen
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: and that's when things go wrong so i think slowing
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: down and being able to take stock and just making
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: sure you're prepared and don't just rely on one form
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: of contact to make sure that to your point in
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: the past and the podcast about navigation, don't just rely
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: on that one thing on your phone. Cause if it breaks,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: then that's a problem.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: You want to have a contingency backup for sure. And
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: how do you feel that travel has changed you as
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: a person? What, what do you, what is so different
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: about Jack today than when you did that very first
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: bike packing trip across the UK? How have you changed
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: as a person?
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: I think I'm just more, I'm, don't feel really intimidated
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: about going to new places I suppose is a big
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: one just people are always so lovely so I think
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: that was really you're really nervous when you go to
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: certain places because you think oh they've got the reputation
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: for this or for that or what you've heard on
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: the news that's never the case I've never found that
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: to be the way obviously I do think that you
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: should be vigilant and you should trust your gut. And
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: I think that goes a long way. I was talking
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: to Claire about that. There's just some places you go
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: through and you just have a bit of a feeling.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: I can't really explain it.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: You got to trust that for sure. Yeah.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: Just don't take any chances. But also for me personally,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: what's changed me is just a confidence in myself just
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: to go. And I just realized that I would rather
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: take the chance and live a full life and see
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: the world than to just mollycoddle myself and be and
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: just out of fear, you know, not go to these places.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no mollycoddling. No. I don't even know what that means.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Hopefully it's right. If that's offensive in any way, I'm sorry.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: I'm British.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: That's British, so it wouldn't be offensive, but we may
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: not know what it means. How do you help support
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: the places and cultures that you travel through? What are
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: some ways that you think we can give back as travelers?
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: I think that when I go to a place, I never,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: I really try to just eat locally and especially some
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: places you have an option to go to maybe the
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: more mainstream places like big campsites or you know when
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: you can choose between a coffee shop that's owned by
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: a big conglomerate or you can take the little local
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: person or whatever it happens to be I think I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: try to be generous with my money and I know
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: that a little bit extra in some places goes a
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: long way so I really try to do that and
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: to yeah just give back in all the small ways
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: that I can And yeah, that's lots of small stuff.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: That's a good advice though. If you think there's nothing,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: Starbucks is actually a good company, but if you go
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: to a Starbucks, you're adding to the CEO's yacht.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: Whereas if you go to.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: A little local coffee shop that's owned by a local,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: you're probably helping them put their kid through college. You
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: can really make a difference locally by spending your money
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: with local businesses.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: And to be honest as well, when you're going to
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: those little places in the mountains, people just go out.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: It's incredible. These people have very little sometimes and they
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: go above and beyond for a really small fee sometimes.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: I always try to give a bit more because I
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: realize that money is going to help a lot. But yeah,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's you get a more authentic experience as well.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: It's just selfish in a way because you're helping the
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: local community, but you're getting a better experience for it
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: as well. So I like to try and do that
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: wherever I can.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: What did you believe about travel when you started that
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: you've since changed your mind on or thrown out?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's that you don't have to be totally
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: all in and just on the road all of the time.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: In fact, for me personally, it diminishes the experience a bit.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: And I know I've heard you mention this going podcast
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: as well, that And sorry if I'm speaking on your
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: behalf here, but I feel that you've mentioned sometimes it's
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: nice to go away for a period and then come
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: home and absorb the experience. I think if you're looking
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: at people who are traveling around the world from your
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: desk at work and stuff and you think, wow, that
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: looks just so idyllic. It's lonely and hard. This really
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: can be. tough being on the road all the time
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: maybe even if you're just living in your vehicle being
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: in a locale or not moving so much i don't
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: believe that i need to be on the road all
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: the time doing big trips i actually like the balance
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: i think life is all about balance such a valuable
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: it's so simple but it really goes.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: A long way hard to achieve though isn't it it
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: is really difficult to balance and inherently is difficult to
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: achieve but no i agree with you and i'm in
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: the same boat where I like to travel for six
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: to eight weeks, but then I really miss Prescott, my
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: little town, and I miss the local coffee shop and
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: I miss seeing my dad and having lunch with him.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: And I know that time that I have with him
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: gets shorter with each passing year. And I just don't
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: know how much longer I'll have those moments to go
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: work on the tractor on the ranch. So if I
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: was traveling for two to three years straight, I may
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: not have a dad to come home to. So that
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: to me, those kinds of things, seeing family, I love
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: to interact with our team. So I get a lot
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: of joy out of coming back too. So, and then
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: it kind of recharges me for the next run.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. And I think that to your point, I
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: think that, especially cause you tend to like us, we
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: have like passionate photographers and you don't want to consolidate
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: your stories from the road. I like that. I have
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: that really immersive experience of going away and traveling. but
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: then coming back and having the routine to process it all.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: And to your point as well, I will say, and
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you have the same, the longer
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: I spend in my home area, and I know the
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: same for you with Prescott, the actually harder it is
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: to leave because it is so important to me. It's
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: so special to have that experience with my family and
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: friends because my folks are like my best friends as well.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: So I really miss them when I go away. Yeah,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: definitely to your point.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: Routine is what it is.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Routine can become routine. It can be where that, hey,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: I love going to the gym every other day and
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: I like going out and then you end up going
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: on Amazon and the packages start showing up. I should
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: take that as my own advice for sure. And I'm like,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: why do I have so many vehicles now? I don't
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: need all these cars. It's been a good lesson for
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: me too.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: I really think that's the marker for me when I
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: know I need to start traveling again is when I
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: start buying stuff. I really believe that because I have
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: everything now. I've been doing it for so long. But
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: then I start to convince myself, I need this and
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: I need this. And that's usually, that's a note of
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: that I'm seeking dopamine in consumerism and not in experiences.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: We got to send each other a little update.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: It's time to go.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: If you could only own one Overland vehicle built today,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: what would it be and why? If you could only have,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: take your pick, any of them.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Is this a modern off the shelf?
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, it needs to be one that's sold today and new.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Brand new because the obvious one for me would be
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: like the only car i would have would be my
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: troopie but if it was like they still make it
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: yeah i think anything toyota really i've been driving nomad
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: the lc250 you just get this feeling you just get
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: in there and just will use it and i think
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: that's the thing that i gravitate towards the most now
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: is that i want to maximize my time on earth
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: and just be i don't want to waste any time
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: and the fact that i can do everything with that
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: vehicle i think it's a great one it's quite expensive
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: though that these new cars so i think that it
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: There are some more affordable options out there. I think
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: that would be something as well that I would look into.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: But I think a 250 is pretty fairly priced. Even
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: in the US, you can get one in the mid-50s,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: which of course seems like a lot of money. But
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: there's also sedans that are sold in the mid-50s. So
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: to get a Land Cruiser 250 for that kind of
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: money feels like a fair value.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: And also, of course, I also... draw over the prospector
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: excel you see in Montana yeah exactly those those vehicles
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: I think that what I really love about the prospector
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: as well is that on one end you have a
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: size trucks and smaller travel vehicles and then in the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: in Europe and stuff you have a lot of the
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: big expedition trucks kind of on military chassis what I
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: love about things like the prospector is that you put
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: a Boeing customs bed or something in a camper and
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: I feel like it finds a middle ground between the
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: smaller vehicles and the huge great big articulated almost like
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: lorries which are very slow very noisy very expensive very
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: hot very expensive and i feel like it's a real
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: nice sweet spot and i saw one going down the
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: road the other day i was actually sitting beside one
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: of our colleagues who was driving clay's prospector looking at
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: a prospector out the window i thought god this is
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: heaven all these big rigs but it was i did
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: look at one and got a bit hot and flustered
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: if i'm honest so do cover the idea of a
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: big full-size truck but They.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: Have their place. They're very capable.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they are really impressive now. But I think for
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: my case, I don't need something quite that big most
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: of the time.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: And you can service a 70 series anywhere in the
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: world if you needed to in the rare occasion that
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: you need to service one. And what are some of
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: your favorite books? What's a book or two that has
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: really changed your life?
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: I've been listening to the podcast for so long and
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: this is hopefully going to be the cheesiest and most
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: embarrassing one.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: I like that though. That's good.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: But I'm going to say if I have to pick
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: one book, It's going to be the Lord of the Rings.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you for why I know it's a
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: nice bit cheesy, but what I love about that book
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: is about life starts outside your comfort zone. It's not
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: just about goblins and pixies and stuff, guys. Like it's,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: there's some real substance to this, but for real, it's
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: about life starts outside your comfort zone. You can find
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: friends in unlikely places that nobody's perfect. We've all got
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: inner struggles. And it just has so many key themes
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: about like a big metaphor for life really. And nothing
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: good ever came easy alliances and unlikely places. So if
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: it was a very kind of nerdy choice, but I
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: love that. And it's also been just, it's the thing
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: there's like values and that are shared in those books,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: just taking care of one another and going, doing that
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: hard thing. For the good of others and stuff that
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: I absolutely love. And I've been waiting for years to
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: be able to say that on here. I feel like
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: I might be one of the first people. I think also,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: funnily enough, working for the journal and portal, I don't
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: read as much as I probably should because I'm reading
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: all day for work. So it's sometimes hard to read
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: as much as I should do. But I've now finally
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: dropped Lord of the Rings onto the OJ podcast. I'm
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: really pleased about that.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: Well done.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: First of all, it's an amazing book. Amazing series of books.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: an incredible story. The movies are awesome.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: I always say to myself, what would Aragorn do in
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: this scenario? That's how I live my life.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: That's fair. That's fair. We should add that as a
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: new column, the magazine. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: Just at the last, like check, check your air pressure.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: What would Aragorn do?
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: No, I like it. All right.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: And the last of the seven questions, what's your favorite
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: place on this planet and what draws you to it?
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: Do you know, I was thinking about this the other
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: day and I think for me, At the moment, it's
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: probably the US. I think it's just, I guess it
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: depends on what time in your life you're at, but
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: because I'm so enthralled by the overlanding space and stuff,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: just the public lands and the, just, you can have,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: you're going down to Arizona, you've got this kind of
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: arid desert state kind of things, and then you've got
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: Alaska at the top. And I just, for me, it's
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: the sense of when you get here, you just feel
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: very small. I think we were looking at, and nobody
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: fact-checked me on this because it's going to be horribly wrong,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: but It's half the population of Europe, but with something
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: like twice the landmass or something like that. And you
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: feel that when you're here. And I love that sense
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: of adventure. And I think it's because it's so different
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: as well. You guys have such a different array of vehicles.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: And I love the idea of doing it in something
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: so different. So for me right now, that's the place
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: where I would like to try and carve out a
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: trip at least a year to try and do a
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: bunch of the States. That's my focus at this precise moment.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: And obviously with the Troopy back home, I'm really following,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: I think we all are following.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: Death to Glory.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: And what I love so much about Richard and Ashley
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: is that, and I was talking to some of the
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: people at The Big Thing over the weekend about them
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: actually singing their praises, is they make it feel so accessible.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: They're just so sincere and kind and so down to
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: earth and they don't go, they don't make a big
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: fuss and jump. A big thing about going to this
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: place that a lot of us would feel a bit
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: intimidated by. They're going, oh, we're going to Mongolia. We're
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: just going to transit through Russia and go to this place.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: We're going to do that. And they just do it
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: and they don't overthink it. And they're consummate professionals and
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: they do things to a really high standard and everything
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: like that. So I'm sure there's a lot of planning
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: that goes into it, but they certainly just, hey, we're here.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: We're having a great time. We're doing it. And it
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: really inspires me to want to go to those places.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: So back home, like the stand countries and obviously Africa is,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: huge on my list but it's i think i've always
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: tried to be also mindful of the fact that it
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: can be really expensive and i want to do it
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: at my own pace so i don't overstretch myself because
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: i'm on my own so everything i have to think
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: about a bit carefully financially as well i don't know
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: because i'm still trying to have balance like life and
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: business and work and travels but yeah for me at
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: the moment probably the us i want to carve out
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: more time to do more of the states but also
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: back home like sands africa is So much to see.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: There is a lot to see. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: So much to see. We appreciate you being here.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that I, after five years, I finally got
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: to see you in person, got to spend some time
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: with you. We've been talking about getting you on the
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: podcast for a long time. We almost pulled it off
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: in Europe. I can't remember a couple of years ago.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: We were very close to being able to get you
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: on the podcast somewhere up near John O'Groats, I think
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: is where we were at. But thanks for your time, Jack.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate you being on the podcast. You're an
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: incredible member of the team. You've done such great work
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: and we're really proud of you. So thanks for being here.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Scott. And thanks for giving me the opportunity
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: to be here in the first place. And also management
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: told me to come on the podcast. I'm not worthy
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: to be here. All the guests are so incredible. I definitely,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how I'm sitting at this table, but
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: I'm very grateful for the opportunity. So thank you.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: I think the same thing every time I interview you.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, especially you, like the things that you've
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: accomplished in your life, the decisions that you've made so
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: young in your life. I was very much bumbling through
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: a bunch of things by my mid thirties. So The
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: fact that you have found some balance and you've been
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: able to pursue your dreams and do the things that
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: you love, that speaks a lot to who you are
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: as a person.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: So thanks for being on the podcast.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you for letting me be here. It's been a
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: real privilege. So thank you.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: You're welcome. And we thank you all for listening. And
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: we'll talk to you next time.