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Where Podcasting Meets Venture Capital · EU-Startups Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 0: You are now listening to the EU startups podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: To this episode of these stars podcast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: as always I'm your host.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: an editor did sending Garcia today a Chad with Paul bonnet.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: He's the general partner at twenty VC.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: that only vc might ring a bell for a lot of you.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: It has an interesting proposition.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: it was first day podcasts led by Harry Stevings, which i'm sure Many of you know and then eventually expanded into a fund the twenty BC Fund which I think initially was four hundred million now.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I was able to talk to Paul over his Personal background, and eventually how he fell in twenty bc.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: fun joining it initially.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: With its first announcement we were able to chat over that balance between The media side of what he does the investment side while he does And how they interacts with traditional journalism?
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: platforms like ours, that also command an audience.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: That also look towards breaking news and how we can kind of bounce off each other.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Paul is known for appearing on different guests with different platforms And uh We were able to just kind of look at his whole trajectory and his analysis and ethos Of investment within Europe and worldwide How he see problems in funding when it comes to Europe which is a bit of a spoiler.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: He believes that if you can't succeed in Europe, it's not really a fault or funding but more of a fault-in personal ambition and ability.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: so its kind of hot take.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: But I think it's an honest one and makes for much interesting conversation.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: So hope we're looking forward to.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Hello Paul!
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: And welcome the EU Starve podcast.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: It's pleasure having with us today.
• 1:56
  Speaker 0: Hey David, great meeting.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to our chat today!
• 2:27
  Speaker 0: I'm a GP at Twenty VC.
• 2:30
  Speaker 0: I lead everything we do in series A and gross alongside Harry, And i am the father of two beautiful daughters.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Okay yeah great!
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I think that's good.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: rundown on it.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: It is great if you are about to join us.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: actually feel like doesn't come into so much conversation That I have on here, but you know family does play an important role into kind of the way people develop in the ecosystem and The way they approach things.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: so it is good to know.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So just On that then before we kinda get Into your ethos or the way You do things?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Kind Of you Know Your whole approach To work.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: i'm interested In hearing about your background because uh...I know Initially you kind of began in banking equity research And eventually fell venture capital.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: the way you are now, it's at twenty BC.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So I want to hear a little bit about that kind of growth and journey that led you to where you are Now.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: is this always?
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: The goal?
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: was VC Always the Goal?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: or Was there Kind Of A Moment That You Said This Is Interesting?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I Want To go Into It.
• 3:34
  Speaker 0: so i think Im quite privileged in the sense started from very little, but invested throughout his life.
• 3:51
  Speaker 0: And I realized that investing was an incredible mechanism to align yourself with brilliant entrepreneurs who would over time hopefully create a lot of value which you will benefit.
• 4:06
  Speaker 0: and so it's lucky enough for me to realize I then indexed everything in life to be in the place that i'm at today.
• 4:18
  Speaker 0: So, didn't know where to start so I started in banking um...I did a couple of years in equity capital markets and pretty quickly realized that The Place That You'd Learn Most would Be Doing Equity Research!
• 4:30
  Speaker 0: So thats Where I landed.
• 4:32
  Speaker 0: In twenty seventeen I was an equity research analyst at Bank of America Initially Covered Luxury And Pretty Quickly Moved Into Online Retail Coverage companies such as Zalundo and ASOS, Buhu.
• 4:48
  Speaker 0: Within two years I actually progressed pretty quickly.
• 4:50
  Speaker 0: so it was leading my small desk at Bank of America.
• 4:57
  Speaker 0: In twenty nineteen I got a call from company called ESG Global is leading late-stage venture capital firm.
• 5:07
  Speaker 0: It's one the early employees there in London.
• 5:11
  Speaker 0: And for five years, I learned a ton.
• 5:14
  Speaker 0: and i got to know Harry in twenty-twenty one We had great relationship.
• 5:18
  Speaker 0: So when he told me early twenty four that He was going out and raise four hundred million then That he would love For Me To Come and lead series and grows alongside him It's like this is probably the best thing I could be doing.
• 5:35
  Speaker 0: so it wasn't a brainer.
• 5:39
  Speaker 0: I joined The Forum two Years ago And since then, basically only good things.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah I hope to get a call like that sometime in my future as well!
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: That's great opportunities and just kind of going little bit back here.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: the DST Global...I'm curious a little bit on your size an investor right?
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: What skills what lessons earned you took from that side of business into which do now with TwentyPC?
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah,
• 6:12
  Speaker 0: so DST Global is a fairly quiet organization.
• 6:17
  Speaker 0: So I partly want to respect that.
• 6:22
  Speaker 0: but it's an incredible firm.
• 6:24
  Speaker 0: It basically led by Yuri Milner and five managing partner co-founders.
• 6:31
  Speaker 0: I was working with Tom Stafford who i think Is an incredible investor And Basically for me the defining Things that I got from DST were incredible analytical rigor.
• 6:49
  Speaker 0: I think they are incredibly smart people, incredibly rigorous people and so...I don't want to overstate my role there but it was very privileged as is public.
• 6:59
  Speaker 0: we invested in things such as Revolute and Penny Lane multiple times.
• 7:04
  Speaker 0: Check out quite a few others And So It Was an Incredible Learning Experience!
• 7:12
  Speaker 0: great contact with the team there, and basically I think it laid the foundations that i needed to have.
• 7:20
  Speaker 0: To be able to do the job.
• 7:21
  Speaker 0: but i did today at twenty dc.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: how does that then apply?
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: To kind of the size Of The Team?
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: because I thought That was an interesting tidbit when I Was looking into Tonya BC.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: It's really from what I can tell the core team six people which is a low When you're looking at this type of fund, I mean most ones that i look into when doing research on them is ten fifteen twenty thirty people.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Chief product officer there's content manager just a bunch different expertise and a bunch of people feeding in then.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: so do feel like kind of the experience he had about being rigorous or data driven.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: does also apply to having leaner team?
• 8:04
  Speaker 0: It absolutely does.
• 8:05
  Speaker 0: I think one of the core skills that you need in venture is to be able to say no quickly, and so we basically sell say-no too well north of ninety five percent off the things that we see an incredibly short order And of course sometimes were wrong.
• 8:19
  Speaker 0: but then that enables you to go Incredibly deep incredibly quickly into the thing's that your really passionate about it?
• 8:25
  Speaker 0: I Think that's what investing is about.
• 8:26
  Speaker 0: So if i think About The last investment That We made and it Is not Public Just yet But I heard of that company through the founder of Prelud, Matthias.
• 8:37
  Speaker 0: And he said his engineering team was in love with that product on Friday and straight away got in touch with the founder which will be able to talk about it for a few weeks
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: hopefully
• 8:49
  Speaker 0: in your paper.
• 8:52
  Speaker 0: On Monday i spoke to the founder.
• 8:53
  Speaker 0: they were working with incredible technology companies thing about Twenty VCs, through the network that we have thanks to the media platform.
• 9:03
  Speaker 0: I was able to get in touch with eight relevant people at eight different customers of that organization and i spoke to all of them.
• 9:11
  Speaker 0: next day on the Tuesday.
• 9:13
  Speaker 0: The reference came back stellar!
• 9:15
  Speaker 0: And i think that referencing process is something we can do incredibly quickly which is part of our data work.
• 9:20
  Speaker 0: It is basically gathering knowledge as fast as possible.
• 9:23
  Speaker 0: I came back so positive again that, like... ...I asked Ari to speak with the founders straight away and then next day.. ..I was meeting the founder and we agreed on a deal by end of week!
• 9:32
  Speaker 0: And So.... I believe that ultimately you can cover quite alot ground With very lean team.
• 9:44
  Speaker 0: The advantage being a lean team Is that founders mostly your only deal with decision makers, and I think that is a value proposition they thoroughly appreciate.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: So you talk about this relationship here with companies who are going to invest in everything?
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: That leads me naturally into an important side of every thing we do which is the media side.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: right there's twenty VC fund.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: before that came twenty VC podcast.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: so i'm curious.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: working organization has such strong media arm to it.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: how does impact the way you deal with founders, relationships your making.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: How are they connected?
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I mean if we invest in new maybe show up on a show or other around and show it on this show then that catches your eye.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: say may be could invest.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: is there kind of relationship builds with connectivity?
• 10:40
  Speaker 0: so If think about twenty BC interesting thing is media company precedes fund by five to six years.
• 10:51
  Speaker 0: It is unusual, but we have to give a lot of credit to Harry for having had the foresight to realize that he needed very unique value proposition given to founders before it started investing.
• 11:04
  Speaker 0: For six years, The Media Company compounded three things.
• 11:09
  Speaker 0: First one was one of the deepest and broadest networks of technology founders and CEOs globally.
• 11:15
  Speaker 0: The second is a network of operators underneath that specifically around sales, growths product finance and engineering.
• 11:24
  Speaker 0: That we can tap into to basically give on-demand access to the founders that be back.
• 11:31
  Speaker 0: And then last one it compounded with very meaningful audience and having strong share of voice.
• 11:38
  Speaker 0: To able do anything from reaching your candidates reaching your customers, putting a story out there is incredibly valuable.
• 11:46
  Speaker 0: And so when we go and speak to founders today what we want to do Is to truly give them the ability To benefit from that kind of all-in one package product Of relationships with CEOs who could be customers With people and advise on the problems they have on a daily basis And potentially to their audience as well.
• 12:08
  Speaker 0: What we will never do is, you'll never compromise the quality of the podcast to have a founder that we invested in if it's too early.
• 12:15
  Speaker 0: The podcast needs to remain independent but off course.
• 12:19
  Speaker 0: If we publish on our channels We are lucky to be slightly more for load than the average Fautilier Harry Who communicates probably over million people and LinkedIn and Twitter.
• 12:30
  Speaker 0: And so when you published something which he has a lot again, potential candidates but not customers and we've seen that many times over.
• 12:37
  Speaker 0: So Solve Intelligence which is one of my favorite teams based here in London where they let the series air off on January twenty-five actually managed to get customers and candidates who reached out between past to reach back into them because it heard from Solve on podcast at the trial show which was really interesting.
• 13:01
  Speaker 0: so very unique.
• 13:03
  Speaker 0: that gives us the ability to do business development as well with our founders.
• 13:06
  Speaker 0: So Matt, he has a founder of Prelate for example.
• 13:09
  Speaker 0: Harry and I sit down with them for thirty minutes.
• 13:11
  Speaker 0: we go through a list of his dream customers.
• 13:14
  Speaker 0: We make introductions to accounts I won't name but leading technology companies globally.
• 13:19
  Speaker 0: He's just signed an incredibly large seven figure contract With one of them last week And is about to sign another in the next couple weeks.
• 13:33
  Speaker 0: I think if you can do that incredibly well, You have a very unique value prop that founders know exactly what they pick you for.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah and i'm going to put my journalism hat on now here And ask you Mayu it's not a combative question but It is one worth asking.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: the fact Is That you command an audience right?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: even if we're just talking compared to a media organization, solely media organizations.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: You still command me as this unnotable audience.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: What do you then is the value of?
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: The other side of the coin which is us on the media.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: If you are already commanding the audience your commanding money and Fact is you're closer to the news right.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: so you'll know if a company is about to raise Series A high because you let it, right?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Or they're going to be launching this revolutionary new product.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Why do you know that cause... You are there!
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Your talking them getting updates.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: so If u can break the story and your have audience to break it too what's really the point of us?
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: And I'll add before you come here Cause i think its interesting I think you do see a value in it because i've seen that.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: You've shown up on etn uh, yeah And and you go another of iiink scaling europe maybe?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I saw at some point with sebb sebb johnson i'm not sure but But i've seeing kind of twenty.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: vc represents pop-up across the ecosystem Across podcasts across articles.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: where have you?
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: so you're still involved.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: but my question then becomes Well what is the value that you still see in traditional media and traditional journals.
• 15:20
  Speaker 0: Well, you will never as an individual organization own a hundred percent of people's attention.
• 15:29
  Speaker 0: It it would ever be the case.
• 15:31
  Speaker 0: media has always been somewhat fragmented and however much I wish that twenty VC Would Be The Only Technology Media That Founders And Investors And Employees Of Those Tech Companies With Consume This Won't Be The Case.
• 15:50
  Speaker 0: Certainly, it's the best one.
• 15:56
  Speaker 0: Everybody does media slightly differently and I think Harry was on of the earliest podcast that enabled him to get that flywheel going but... what the ETN boys are doing, for example is extremely interesting.
• 16:09
  Speaker 0: And actually I value different voices in the ecosystem and European companies don't necessarily have their place in TechCrunch anymore For example... And so having media like yours at EU startups or having media Like the ETM boys Or Seb who's also doing an incredible job with scale in Europe Is extremely valuable to our company.
• 16:32
  Speaker 0: When we do podcasts, they don't necessarily come up in SEO.
• 16:37
  Speaker 0: Having written articles about those companies does come out in SEO enables people who actually consume by reading and not by listening to find the right information of both these companies And so I mean there is space for everybody.
• 16:51
  Speaker 0: media's an incredibly large market.
• 16:53
  Speaker 0: again i think peoples attention will still be scattered across a few different channels.
• 17:00
  Speaker 0: Yes, twenty VC is going to be a big one.
• 17:03
  Speaker 0: But I'm also all for the development of other platforms again such as yours, such as ETN and scaling Europe And we need to contribute with those new channels in same way that were able develop ourselves.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: It's very, I think, rounded answer and... And i have to agree completely.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: This is coming up a lot actually for me throughout these interviews.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: you know we releasing an episode every week whether it's founders VCs what-have-you?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: people in the ecosystem?
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: As I do research into companies how many of them?
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: a podcast.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: They have, uh...a newsletter.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: they are publishing their own articles.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: hell!
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: A lot of them will publish the news that they pitched to us at the same time or before on their own channels and so it's more-and-more I think even though we live in a time where everyone says journalism is dying you know?
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: It doesn't really exist.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: We all seem to be involved.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: The question now becomes what kind of niche do we fall into?
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: And if were cannibalizing each other audiences?
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: That's my big fear.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: And I don't really have any evidence to support this, but i worry sometimes right?
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I think...I hope that if somebody is watching and paying a seco system they see the value.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: in twenty bc an etn eniu starves in scaling Europe all within their own niche and output Right!
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: And uh..i'm afraid though what if we're just kind of like fighting for the same person?
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: But-but I don't think we are because we're all here and making content, getting paid.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: We seem to be doing alright so i have believe that's not the case.
• 18:57
  Speaker 0: You can cap it.
• 18:58
  Speaker 0: like people attention is finite but everybody consumes in same way.
• 19:02
  Speaker 0: Not everyone consumes from the same geographic places.
• 19:05
  Speaker 0: For example having channels more specifically dedicated to Europe is incredibly valuable for our companies.
• 19:13
  Speaker 0: This is why we also take the time to nurture our relationships with people like you.
• 19:17
  Speaker 0: Like, there's a reason it has happened
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah and as you said You mentioned TechCrunch right?
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: And they got their whole European division basically laid off.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: So definitely There can be danger of People like us and organizations like us disappearing if there isn't kind of a dialogue between all.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: so I'm more than very happy to have you on.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I am very supportive of twenty BC, i'll put it that.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: but then uh To kind of circle back because I think we've gone to journalism question which to me is fascinating?
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I could dedicate the whole episode too But...but its-that's not.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: why were here?
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Uh..to kinda go back into them Kinda hear interesting hearing about your own personal kind of work within twenty
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: B.C.,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: the idea of maybe investments that you found particularly interesting and patterns at your scene, with in your own investment investing right?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I mean i can tell you obviously AI is about ninety percent Of all the pitches we get.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: do You feel that reflective in The amount of investing That you're doing And the companies that you find are more Interesting or their niches that you're seeing apart from AI that seem to be rising?
• 20:25
  Speaker 0: I think it's an interesting question.
• 20:28
  Speaker 0: but Of course, almost every pitch even if it's not AI native will try to find an A.I angle and so this is the right thing to do in a sense that like... This where lot of capital is going?
• 20:44
  Speaker 0: Where lots of growths are happening?
• 20:45
  Speaker 0: Is what people interest light.
• 20:48
  Speaker 0: And when you think about current investment landscape either you need show exceptional growth or To have very strong AI tailwits.
• 21:03
  Speaker 0: I think that is true and that makes sense.
• 21:05
  Speaker 0: by the way, And for The V-One SaaS You kind of have to adapt or you have to get profitable Or you will die Because if your not growing very fast and you're not at scale There's a real chance That there'll be no more capital to fund you.
• 21:25
  Speaker 0: If you are still burning money and need it then this is the end of the road.
• 21:31
  Speaker 0: We're seeing companies such as Aloe in Germany, who was doing POS software.
• 21:36
  Speaker 0: Now getting a very meaningful share of their revenues through AI features that they've talked on to the core products and are adding real value to customers.
• 21:46
  Speaker 0: So is Aloe an AI native company?
• 21:49
  Speaker 0: No Can they co-attach To the benefits that AI can have for their own customers?
• 21:55
  Speaker 0: absolutely And they're doing it brilliantly.
• 21:59
  Speaker 0: If you were thinking about like Any industry, there is a wedge.
• 22:07
  Speaker 0: And sometimes it's not been found just yet or perhaps the model capabilities are not there just yet but There is a Wedge that will enable you to grow very fast and go after the incumbents.
• 22:16
  Speaker 0: It was a company I'm particularly fond of called Solve Intelligence.
• 22:22
  Speaker 0: We let this series air of solve intelligence in January of twenty-five and what they enabled AI what they enable patent practitioners to do was to draft the patents leveraging AI.
• 22:38
  Speaker 0: And that is an incredible wage because usually filing a Patent, you build your customers like twelve-to fifteen thousand dollars.
• 22:45
  Speaker 0: it takes two or three weeks in parallel with doing other things as a lawyer but if we can reduce by factor of two or more.
• 22:56
  Speaker 0: when I spoke to customer some were saying we saved eighty percent of the time that we usually put into drafting patterns by using Solve, and the AeroA is Evidence.
• 23:07
  Speaker 0: And you're then going to grow fast!
• 23:08
  Speaker 0: Is that enough?
• 23:10
  Speaker 0: Well no it's not because if think five years ahead... The drafting part might be commoditized by some of the incumbents even though they may have their best product.
• 23:19
  Speaker 0: So than you need start covering more value chains which are running at very-very fast.
• 23:24
  Speaker 0: Actually AI helps you churn out products faster And so the roadmap that you had for the next three years can be compressed in one.
• 23:32
  Speaker 0: So now they're covering a lot more, They were already doing everything related to.
• 23:36
  Speaker 0: how do patent lawyers IP lawyers?
• 23:43
  Speaker 0: How do they deal with the invention disclosures?
• 23:45
  Speaker 0: How did it draft the patents know?
• 23:46
  Speaker 0: what are doing?
• 23:47
  Speaker 0: prosecution now there during charts?
• 23:50
  Speaker 0: Monitoring of the portfolio of patents etc.
• 23:54
  Speaker 0: Those are extremely interesting investments.
• 23:58
  Speaker 0: go very, very fast into a category and then very deep across that category.
• 24:04
  Speaker 0: And to create incredibly valuable companies in the short period of time.
• 24:07
  Speaker 0: That's why everybody is focused on AI because it enables you to reinvent a category very quickly.
• 24:14
  Speaker 0: You mentioned AI as probably the sole focus but actually I created many other things Because To be able run AI you need energy And infrastructure, energy chips etc.
• 24:31
  Speaker 0: I'm mentioning energy because this is a topic that we've done quite a lot on even before it became so sexy with AI.
• 24:38
  Speaker 0: but like there are companies doing an incredible job in the UK they have originally nothing to do with AI such as revan industries producing renewable natural gas at country scale and those guys were always going to be valuable.
• 24:53
  Speaker 0: like energy sovereignty is important But in a world where perhaps they could co-attach to data centers, become even more interesting or fuse energy.
• 25:04
  Speaker 0: We are also very proud of our elders doing an incredible job on that front and I think now people realize that more and more so... ...I would say the benefit of having AI growing as fast as industries is there many other industries that co-Attached to it directly and indirectly?
• 25:20
  Speaker 0: but if you do well then you will capitalize them too be able to raise venture for
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: sure.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: So from what I'm hearing, if i understand it correctly you don't really believe in this idea of an AI bubble right?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Because since a feed so naturally into other sectors Right!
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: It can't Really possibly pop its not like Other bubbles and the passive or self-contained In terms of investment And growth.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: This one is so From What You're saying So interconnected Into The Growth Of Other Sectors That Its kind of Protected?
• 25:54
  Speaker 0: I actually wouldn't say so, but what i'm saying is kind of uncorrelated to whether there's a bubble or not.
• 26:06
  Speaker 0: Some applications that are bringing real value to customers such as Solve Intelligence which enables IP lawyers do their job four times faster and therefore take on more customer and leading organizations to monitor the portfolio patterns better have very clear ROI.
• 26:26
  Speaker 0: How can that be a bubble?
• 26:28
  Speaker 0: The revenue is growing.
• 26:28
  Speaker 0: The multiple is not crazy, the market's very big.
• 26:31
  Speaker 0: That company would be very valuable...that's not a bubble!
• 26:35
  Speaker 0: How can we say open AI and Anthropics are bubble?
• 26:38
  Speaker 0: Anthropic is profitable.
• 26:41
  Speaker 0: It is going extremely fast..the multiple was never too high.
• 26:45
  Speaker 0: I think the danger of saying bubble it treats everybody in same way.
• 26:51
  Speaker 0: If i think about ai as whole there definitely pockets of froth And I've actually written about this on some of my channels through X, for example.
• 27:00
  Speaker 0: I published this article About the New Lab trade and today you have over a hundred new labs that are raised Over seventy billion combined at a combine valuation of three hundred twenty billion not remember the exact number but some somewhere along those lines.
• 27:15
  Speaker 0: Most of those do not produce any revenue and people are actually chasing.
• 27:19
  Speaker 0: then next open AI is an anthropics.
• 27:21
  Speaker 0: There might be one by the way within all of those.
• 27:24
  Speaker 0: maybe there's gonna.
• 27:24
  Speaker 0: your company does going to even bigger But that sounds like a pocket of frost to me, where there are currently zero revenues to justify any of those valuations.
• 27:35
  Speaker 0: And we don't know that they will be.
• 27:37
  Speaker 0: and the entry evaluations are priced for near perfection.
• 27:40
  Speaker 0: because when you invest at five billion free money in a pre-seed company, your basically underwriting hundred billion plus outcome... There have been ten to twelve hundred billion less outcomes so far in technology on which I think seven are still private.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Well, and you paint actually a very positive look out on the whole system.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: And yet I think You also have to look at how many complaints there are within Europe in terms of the funding available To these companies right?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I think this is specifically relevant to you Of course but that when i speak to A lot of founders their main complaint Is usually always The same as That I Have to go to the US because because there isn't enough funding available to me in Europe, and I can become the Nestanthropic.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Because it just won't let me whether it's an overabundance of regulation.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: whatever is the cause but The result Is There Isn't Enough Funding For Me.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: And To Kind Of Outline All This i had a quick look at Just How Many kind of Investment Vehicle VC Announcements We Tracked Through EU Startups Just In Twenty-Twenty Six Right Where In September and we saw Over Ten Billion of newly announced funds, investment vehicles, additions to fund-of-funds.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Whatever have you right?
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: So that seems to be a good number to kind start off with.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: but You still can't dispute the fact.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: many do point this lack of funding as reason they cannot stay in Europe or become next huge company unicorn.
• 29:17
  Speaker 0: I have pretty strong views on it.
• 29:21
  Speaker 0: But if you believe that you can't grow because of a lack of funding in Europe, then you don't have the agency to become an ex-open-air interpreter.
• 29:32
  Speaker 0: First off... A lot of US capital is flowing into Europe and some are the best companies.
• 29:37
  Speaker 0: actually my main competitors are U.S funds not necessarily European funds And so I would say if your good enough both technically end up selling available capital.
• 29:53
  Speaker 0: if anything, is greater in Europe because there are lots of public funds and or probably related funds that are managed by private managers.
• 30:06
  Speaker 0: That have been designed to fund those companies as one thing that specifically dedicated to Europe.
• 30:15
  Speaker 0: A lot European funds invest almost exclusively in Europe.
• 30:19
  Speaker 0: And then on top of that you have the American funds who invests some.
• 30:24
  Speaker 0: And so when you see currently some of those companies raising at one, two three five billion pre-money a lot that capital is from the US and all of these teams are in Europe.
• 30:35
  Speaker 0: When you see eleven labs they raise their series A for my good friends Brian who used to be at ACSINZ.
• 30:42
  Speaker 0: Um...when you look at people leading the latest rounds in loveable this is U.S.
• 30:49
  Speaker 0: Capital.
• 30:50
  Speaker 0: They did it.
• 30:52
  Speaker 0: So I'm not saying it's easier to grow from Europe.
• 30:54
  Speaker 0: The market is definitely more fragmented, certainly more regulated and smaller in general.
• 31:04
  Speaker 0: but you have the agency and your ability get on that plane if want be visible And there actually a lot of capital available.
• 31:13
  Speaker 0: I would see this as a red flag if somebody started their pitch by complaining that they can't grow in Europe because of the lack of capital and or, If i heard that they were doing so in private.
• 31:28
  Speaker 0: That will not be something very found about.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: You know...I want to stay objective but.. I agree a little bit!
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: But I'm going say it's strong stance.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know and I've had other VCU representatives on here who have not drawn that sharp of a line as
• 31:47
  Speaker 0: to how they draw.
• 31:49
  Speaker 0: It's easier to have more friends when you stay in the gray area but actually this one is pretty black-and-white.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Well it makes for better episode with better conversation When i get real honest answer like that So kind of... You mentioned just to heart back little bit about your content publishing.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting because i have had a look over at your x-profile and you do kind of, uh... You know.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: You publish these analysis These kinds of outlooks to different topics whether it's directly VC funding or in larger things And kinda wondering where That comes from?
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: The goal Of It!
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I mean is the idea Because Harry Stebbings has already voice, right?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: And as you say he's got a large following and people are listening to him is the idea To do kind of replicate that within twenty BC in to have these kinds of talking heads Within your team.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: That can give analysis too The media two whoever is out there looking for.
• 32:48
  Speaker 0: yeah ultimately I'm not here to try much Harrys following but i've noticed every positive externalities that it brought to harry to have so much attention to have such a deep network.
• 33:09
  Speaker 0: thanks throughout the content that you've been doing for yours.
• 33:12
  Speaker 0: And I thought, and I'll have to thank Harry because he put it in my head as well... We should have multiple voice within twenty DC.
• 33:23
  Speaker 0: just becuase i'm very focused on investing side.
• 33:26
  Speaker 0: doesn't mean there are not those going into my head worth publishing.
• 33:31
  Speaker 0: That we could actually have different voices.
• 33:34
  Speaker 0: when is podcast?
• 33:36
  Speaker 0: Where we have absolutely incredible guests that were very proud to have whether technology founders or top operators are incredible investors, but We did not have kind of our own in-depth analysis and more Numbered maybe content.
• 34:01
  Speaker 0: That is something that I love to work on.
• 34:03
  Speaker 0: And so if it was too do the exact same thing at us.
• 34:06
  Speaker 0: it would not be very additive, but actually think in the same way that we have an extremely complementary relationship.
• 34:12
  Speaker 0: I think our content can also be extremely complimentary and i think gives people more of a taste for everything that twenty BC has to bring them from the data driven approach all up the halo which is put on their media platform.
• 34:31
  Speaker 0: Yeah,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: it's why I like having BC people on here.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Obviously you know everybody wants to hear from the money To just boil a down breast tax right?
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Everybody wants to Hear From The People That Are Out There Funding and are interested in the way You approach the funding all that but you also actually have A lot of context understanding that i feel doesn't get tapped into them much You know because even though you're involved with funding and your involved it's kind of making sure some companies reach their goals And everything.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: but you are also through all of that have a wider picture of an understand right?
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: I can ask you about how you feel about AI Generally over Europe.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can asked you about different things.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: That is generally maybe too large of an understanding to go to a founder with because they don't have the context of twenty, thirty, forty-fifty other companies and founders in their problems.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: And like... They're tackling things.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: so I agree completely!
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I do think there is definitely a spot there to be filled.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: that hasn't been filled right?
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: What platform goes through?
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: it's still defined but you know as far as I know TonyVC doesn't have articles yet.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the newsletter.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Don't you publish
• 35:49
  Speaker 0: my articles on X?
• 35:50
  Speaker 0: I think a lot of the smartest people are there anyways.
• 35:53
  Speaker 0: actually it was very helpful.
• 35:58
  Speaker 0: It has already brought many concrete benefits to me To publish those articles and some of them have been read over five hundred thousand times.
• 36:06
  Speaker 0: so more than that And You get extremely smart people into your inbox that give you information, you may not otherwise have had and get to meet incredible people who might not have met or otherwise.
• 36:20
  Speaker 0: And so it compounds... It is a very long game!
• 36:23
  Speaker 0: It's only the beginning but yeah has already brought external positive externalities including like for me just be able to rock up into an incredible founders inbox set-up meeting pretty quickly by myself.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Do think whoever setup kind of You know, a database where one could look over all the articles because if you're publishing to X then maybe it's not so easy to go back and look overall your different
• 36:53
  Speaker 0: work.
• 36:53
  Speaker 0: I don't know... It is easier to hide when we were wrong than with Timeline.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: No!
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: You gotta stick by our guns okay?
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: You've got to join game like the rest of us.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: If you are wrong its gonna be plastered on the internet for
• 37:05
  Speaker 0: many years.
• 37:05
  Speaker 0: I'm sure some people will dig out like the new life possible.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, well we're approaching the end here.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I try not to go over two thirty minutes.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: i think it's a natural sweet spot.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: so i'm gonna give you my last question and i think will call it or wrap...i think then its' the natural question that always is at the end where do you see Tony VC in the future?
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: uh five years ten years from now what is the kind of um goal Right?
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: And this is kind of a two-layered question for you because, You've got the media side and investing.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on both how the media platform should evolve and investment platforms should evolve.
• 37:49
  Speaker 0: Great question!
• 37:53
  Speaker 0: Frankly... ...I think there's no absolute tier answer that we're living in just move so fast That always have to adapt.
• 38:01
  Speaker 0: The one thing i can tell you Is We spent their last years very carefully crafting products that founders would be able to use in an extremely simple way, to bring concrete value to them.
• 38:16
  Speaker 0: Obviously with the podcast we have those relationships with those incredible CEOs which you can bring into the cap tables of a lot of companies that invest in it.
• 38:26
  Speaker 0: so its not rare actually Coming alongside us to invest early in companies and they can mentor them.
• 38:35
  Speaker 0: They can become customers, all those things.
• 38:38
  Speaker 0: that is one product crafting incredible cap table thanks to the media platform.
• 38:43
  Speaker 0: a second product is as I said doing bd for those founders so literally bringing millions in pipeline two down.
• 38:52
  Speaker 0: A third product is the operators group, which is productizing the network of operators that we have through twenty products.
• 38:59
  Speaker 0: Twenty sales and twenty growths.
• 39:03
  Speaker 0: Obviously there's the incredible project Europe as well Which is a common effort but of which twenty VC has heavily contributed to at the beginning And still today and That has brought us closer too over well over two hundred of the best founders in Europe.
• 39:20
  Speaker 0: again That is something that we can leverage to truly bring direct value, and so all of the things that we think off day in or day out are how do you have a clear-value proposition with clear products?
• 39:42
  Speaker 0: And so we continue to craft this.
• 39:52
  Speaker 0: I don't know what the next products will be, but they would be designed for the exact same thing which is making twenty VC the best possible partner For you if you create a company.
• 40:01
  Speaker 0: Oh
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: man!
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: We've already proven that You are very much on that right track.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: We do use startups here about twenty VC continuously.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: It's one of the main reasons why we wanted to be on here, and we look forward
• 40:27
  Speaker 0: then.