Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Beloved couple go on RV trip of a lifetime, disappear. Bodies found in shallow beach grave. HELP CATCH THE KILLER!

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Beloved couple go on RV trip of a lifetime, disappear. Bodies found in shallow beach grave. HELP CATCH THE KILLER! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: How many times have you dreamed about clocking out, just
0:10
Speaker 1: leaping off the grid, taking to the road and never
0:15
Speaker 1: having to check in again, just you and your family
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Speaker 1: and RV and the wide open road. I think about
0:24
Speaker 1: it almost every day. That's exactly what James and Michelle
0:29
Speaker 1: Butler did shortly after their wedding. They leave their beautiful
0:34
Speaker 1: in New Hampshire home, they rent it out, they pack
0:36
Speaker 1: up their stuff and they hit the highway for the
0:39
Speaker 1: adventure of a lifetime. There's nothing like an RV. I
0:44
Speaker 1: can tell you that myself had an awesome trip with
0:47
Speaker 1: my family planning another one, and that's what the Butler's
0:50
Speaker 1: had in mind too, but things didn't work out the
0:53
Speaker 1: way they planned. I Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:59
Speaker 1: What happened to James How Michelle Butler? Crime Stories with
1:10
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is the beach where James and Michelle
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Speaker 1: Butler were last seen. The couple have been traveling the
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Speaker 1: US in an RV since twenty eighteen, but in mid
1:20
Speaker 1: October they abruptly went silent, and their trailer and RV
1:24
Speaker 1: allegedly crossed the US Mexico border without them. Yeah, more
1:32
Speaker 1: than a hundred people gathered Sunday night for a vigil
1:35
Speaker 1: in Rumney, New Hampshire, a small town where James and
1:39
Speaker 1: Michelle Butler fell in love and married in twenty fifteen.
1:43
Speaker 1: They did everything together. They loved each other deeply. Jebrah
1:48
Speaker 1: van Loon is James's older sister. She says her brother
1:51
Speaker 1: and Michelle were inseparable. They were always together and smiling
1:56
Speaker 1: and having fun in doing what they loved. James was
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Speaker 1: a retired Aired Navy veteran, and the couple had been
2:02
Speaker 1: on a cross country road trip and a used r
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Speaker 1: V trailer, taking odd jobs along the way to make
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Speaker 1: ends meet. Debrah says they were lately headed to Florida
2:11
Speaker 1: next to sell Christmas trees. As we knew something was
2:14
Speaker 1: wrong because they never missed phone calls. Speaking of going
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Speaker 1: off the grid, That's exactly what these two did. James
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Speaker 1: and Michelle Butler get married, fall in love, get married,
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Speaker 1: get off the grid, getting an RV and traveling the country.
2:30
Speaker 1: This very happy New Hampshire couple then seemingly disappeared. James
2:37
Speaker 1: and Michelle of Running New Hampshire then reported missing by
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Speaker 1: their family after failing to contact them. What happened to
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Speaker 1: the loved up couple. I Dancy, Grace, this is Crime Stories.
2:49
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. With me. Julie Rendelman,
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Speaker 1: New York defense attorney, David Katz, former d E eight
2:56
Speaker 1: now CEO Global Security Group, doctor beth Any Marshall, psychoanalyst
3:02
Speaker 1: in LA, former chief medical Examiner Chris Sperry also with me.
3:07
Speaker 1: Chloyd Steiger, former homicide detective now author. But to Dave
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Speaker 1: Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, Dave, tell me
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Speaker 1: about this couple, James Michelle Butler and how they seemingly
3:20
Speaker 1: just drop off the map. Nancy, This couple phenomenal in
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Speaker 1: that James was a lifelong career Navy man. They met
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Speaker 1: in twenty ten and got married in twenty fifteen, and
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Speaker 1: about a year and a half ago, James and Michelle
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Speaker 1: decided to just as you mentioned, just get off the grid.
3:40
Speaker 1: He was managing a Walmart at the time, she was
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Speaker 1: working in an office, and they just walked away. They
3:44
Speaker 1: bought a used travel trailer, they hooked it up to
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Speaker 1: his truck, and they decided to go on a lifelong adventure.
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Speaker 1: James actually had told his family that he saw the
3:54
Speaker 1: world in the navy. He had traveled, but he'd never
3:57
Speaker 1: seen his own country, and that's what they set to do.
4:00
Speaker 1: So they really did hook up the trailer and started traveling.
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Speaker 1: They ended up picking up odd jobs along the way
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Speaker 1: to pay for places to park the camper and things
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Speaker 1: like that, and they kept a Michelle actually kept a
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Speaker 1: travel log on Facebook of all their adventures and what
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Speaker 1: they were doing. Just an incredible off the grid journey.
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Speaker 1: But very important to point out that while they were
4:22
Speaker 1: kind of off the grid, they maintained close contact with
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Speaker 1: their family via FaceTime and constant cell phone contact, so
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Speaker 1: they were always in contact with their family back in
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Speaker 1: New Hampshire. Joining me out of Beverly Hills renowned psychoanalyst
4:35
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall. You can find her at doctor Bethany
4:38
Speaker 1: Marshall dot com. Bethany this idea to just leave your home,
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Speaker 1: sell your house, get out of your condo, get rid
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Speaker 1: of your possessions and get an RV and travel the country.
4:52
Speaker 1: I like it. As a matter of fact, as you
4:55
Speaker 1: well know, David and I took the twins all across
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Speaker 1: the country in an RV about two years ago, all
5:03
Speaker 1: the way through Death Valley, Los Vegas. We started in Tucson,
5:10
Speaker 1: went to Vegas, went to Death of Valley, went through
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Speaker 1: the mountains the Sequoia, ended up at the Golden Gate
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Speaker 1: Bridge and it was one of the best things ever.
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Speaker 1: Of course, my eighty eight year old mother took up
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Speaker 1: two thirds of the RV. I don't know how that happened,
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Speaker 1: but it was a trip of a lifetime. It's a
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Speaker 1: very alluring Bethany, Why Nancy. It is alluring because they
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Speaker 1: hadn't lived a life of complete responsibility. Between the two
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Speaker 1: of them, they had five children, He had done tours
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Speaker 1: of duty, they had one grandchild. These were two very
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Speaker 1: responsible people. They held down jobs, They had a very
5:51
Speaker 1: buttoned up life, and they loved each other. They were
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Speaker 1: attached to each other, and they wanted to finally live
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Speaker 1: the American dream and they set out to do it.
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Speaker 1: So this is not a couple who put themselves at
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Speaker 1: risk because they were drug takers or drug runners or
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Speaker 1: engaging in risky behaviors. They were just enjoying their lives
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Speaker 1: and wanting to enhance their relationship together. You know, they
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Speaker 1: really seem to be living out their dream. To Cloyd
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Speaker 1: Steiger thirty six years, Seattle, p d. Twenty two years
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Speaker 1: homicide author Seattle's forgotten serial killer Gary Jane Grant. Cloyd again,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I'm all for packing
6:37
Speaker 1: up and taking off in your RV, but there are
6:39
Speaker 1: a lot of dangers associated with that. As a matter
6:41
Speaker 1: of fact, they just researched it for my book coming
6:43
Speaker 1: out called Don't Be a Victim about Danger traveling, including
6:49
Speaker 1: in an RV. It can be dangerous. Why well, you
6:52
Speaker 1: never know who you're going to come up against, it
6:54
Speaker 1: where you're going to be, especially if you're doing what
6:56
Speaker 1: they called boondocking. We're just parked somewhere off the grid
6:59
Speaker 1: and stay in your RV without hookups or anybody around
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Speaker 1: in a park. And people that do that often do
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Speaker 1: that for several nights in a row, and you never
7:09
Speaker 1: know who's around you know what, you ever do know
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Speaker 1: who's around? Cloyd Steiger to David Katz, CEO Global Security Group,
7:18
Speaker 1: And another thing I learned in an RV is there
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Speaker 1: no matter what you do, they're not that secure. And
7:24
Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger's right, you don't know who else is in
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Speaker 1: that RV camp, absolutely correct. I mean you go to
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Speaker 1: some of these more remote locations where I mean anyone
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Speaker 1: would want to park there, enjoy nature, joy solitude. You
7:36
Speaker 1: run across a wrong person and for whatever reason, being
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Speaker 1: attractive target looking for adventure. James Butler and his wife Michelle,
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Speaker 1: newly married. They rent out their house in New Hampshire.
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Speaker 1: They buy an RV. They're serious about this, We just
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Speaker 1: rent in one. They sold the farm. They buy an
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Speaker 1: RV and set out for the adventure of a lifetime.
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Speaker 1: They get to New York, they go to Arizona. They
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Speaker 1: camp all around south the South Texas coast, but then
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Speaker 1: seemingly they disappear. Did they want to go that far
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Speaker 1: off the grid? We're talking about James Butler and Michelle Butler.
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Speaker 1: Even though their quote off the grid, they stay in
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Speaker 1: touch with their family. To Dave maccrimalline dot com investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: where you can find this and all other breaking crime
8:31
Speaker 1: and justice news, Dave mac tell me about their travels
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Speaker 1: and where was the last time that they were spotted. Well, actually, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: you mentioned the travels. They would pick up odd jobs
8:44
Speaker 1: in different parts of the country. Wherever they were now
8:47
Speaker 1: when they were actually last seen it was when they
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Speaker 1: posted pictures of setting up their campsite on the beach
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Speaker 1: at South Padre Island in Texas, just outside of Corpus Christie.
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Speaker 1: They had just arrived there around October the fifteenth, and
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Speaker 1: they were setting things up and they'd taken a couple
9:05
Speaker 1: of pictures and posted them online. Now they had talked
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Speaker 1: to family, they had talked with via text and audio,
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Speaker 1: and they had actually set up a phone call to
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Speaker 1: talk to their five year old granddaughter on the seventeenth.
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Speaker 1: And the reason that's important is their granddaughter had just
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Speaker 1: taken up horse riding lessons and so through their travels
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Speaker 1: they actually found some boots and some real western wear
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Speaker 1: to send to their granddaughter and they were going to
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Speaker 1: do this big FaceTime so that they could see as
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Speaker 1: she opened the present from grandma and grandpa. And that
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Speaker 1: call didn't happen. Okay, I need a shrink right here
9:42
Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of LA. You
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Speaker 1: can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. The
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Speaker 1: fact that they had set up a FaceTime with their
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Speaker 1: five year old granddaughter and all the facts Dave Mack
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Speaker 1: just gave you the details. What does that tell you
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Speaker 1: about them? And the fact that they seemingly disappear, well,
10:03
Speaker 1: they are off the grid. Somewhat but not completely. They
10:07
Speaker 1: love their family. I keep using the word attachment today,
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Speaker 1: but they're attached. They are not leaving their attachments behind.
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Speaker 1: They're not taking off, they're not running from the law,
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Speaker 1: They're not doing anything elicit. They are simply enjoying their
10:19
Speaker 1: lives and maintaining contact with their family. And one of
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Speaker 1: the things that strikes me is that their whole life
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Speaker 1: seemingly is in that RV. So this would also make
10:31
Speaker 1: them an attractive target. Since we don't know where they
10:35
Speaker 1: are what happened to them. Any perpetrator is going to
10:39
Speaker 1: see that they have cash in there, that they have ideas,
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Speaker 1: they have phones, they have clothing, so they're in some
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Speaker 1: ways they are a moving target. And we know even
10:48
Speaker 1: with people who hike a lot or are long distance runners,
10:53
Speaker 1: anytime you are on the move in multiple settings, you
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Speaker 1: do risk coming to the attention of bad elements of
11:01
Speaker 1: bad people. Crime stories with Nancy grace Well. Family members
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Speaker 1: tell us that James last posted on Facebook on October
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Speaker 1: fifteenth with a picture of his wife Michelle on the beach,
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Speaker 1: saying that they were setting up camp. They were last
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Speaker 1: heard from the next day and reported missing October twenty third,
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Speaker 1: right now. Police say they need to find the two
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Speaker 1: people spotted in their truck. They're just people that we
11:36
Speaker 1: want to identify and talk to for background in the investigation.
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Speaker 1: If we had, if I could use stereotypes, I think
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Speaker 1: they're probably local to the Corpus Christi area, and investigators
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Speaker 1: in Texas say they are working with the Department of
11:51
Speaker 1: Homeland Security park rangers and have been in contact with
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Speaker 1: Mexican authorities. Meanwhile, family members are working on getting their
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Speaker 1: remains back to New Hampshire. Their vehicle is spotted, but
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Speaker 1: it's not them driving it. Todave Matt Crime online dot
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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, what can you tell me about eyewitnesses
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Speaker 1: that see James and a Walmart about thirty eight miles
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Speaker 1: from where they were last seen. Well, um, Nancy, that
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Speaker 1: sighting at the Walmart some thirty eight miles away is
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Speaker 1: part of the investigation, and at the press conference, I
12:28
Speaker 1: was waiting for that to be answered, and the only
12:31
Speaker 1: thing we got from the investigators is that they're sitting
12:34
Speaker 1: on the information because it's an ongoing investigation. They're playing
12:39
Speaker 1: things very very close to the vest. We've got the
12:42
Speaker 1: couple going missing, then we've got you know, the We've
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Speaker 1: got witnesses, you know, seeing the camper at their campground
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Speaker 1: boat without the truck, and then we have the picture
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Speaker 1: of the truck towing the trailer. Okay, very very confusing.
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Speaker 1: To psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, I've heard eyewitnesses attacked a
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Speaker 1: lot on cross examination. Is there a chance the eyewitnesses
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Speaker 1: who spot James without Michelle at a Walmart about forty
13:09
Speaker 1: miles away could be wrong? Well, here's what I know
13:13
Speaker 1: about eyewitnesses. When there is a lot of national attention
13:16
Speaker 1: to a news story, people go looking for clues. They
13:20
Speaker 1: always want to be the one to call the tip mind,
13:22
Speaker 1: they're looking around and sometimes there's a type of hysteria
13:27
Speaker 1: where they go on the hunt. So it's hard to
13:29
Speaker 1: say if this eyewitness really spotted him without his wife
13:33
Speaker 1: or if there are simply doing their own surveillance and
13:37
Speaker 1: thought that they spotted him. So in these kinds of cases,
13:39
Speaker 1: I'm never so sure if the eyewitnesses that accurate. Well,
13:43
Speaker 1: another thing about the eyewitness named Joe Anna, she posts
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Speaker 1: my husband and I stopped to pray for a guy
13:51
Speaker 1: we met at Walmart. He said he was from New
13:55
Speaker 1: Hampshire and his name was Dennis. He said he lost everything,
14:00
Speaker 1: was needing help with food. He was obviously suffering some
14:03
Speaker 1: kind of memory lapse or PTSD. What do you do
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Speaker 1: in a case like this, Julie Rendelman, New York defense attorney.
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Speaker 1: When you're desperate to find answers and you get tips,
14:14
Speaker 1: I've helped on many, many, well countless missing persons cases.
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Speaker 1: And when you get a tip that you want so
14:22
Speaker 1: desperately to believe, but then every everything indicates the eyewitness
14:26
Speaker 1: was wrong, Well, look, I mean, you always have to
14:28
Speaker 1: take any witness seriously from initially, but I have to
14:33
Speaker 1: be honest this witness. While I'm sure she's trying to
14:36
Speaker 1: be helpful, the description she gives of this individual does
14:41
Speaker 1: not match in any way who we know the victim
14:43
Speaker 1: to be. He was, There was no indication that he
14:46
Speaker 1: was anything like what was described, So you have to
14:48
Speaker 1: kind of question whether or not she just simply has
14:51
Speaker 1: it wrong and move on to another potential clue. A happy,
14:55
Speaker 1: newly wedded New Hampster couple's adventure of a lifetime seemingly
15:01
Speaker 1: ends at a Texas beach. From there, where do you go?
15:07
Speaker 1: David Kats, former da CEO Global Security Group, What do
15:11
Speaker 1: you do next. Well, they're going to be able to
15:13
Speaker 1: at least track the movements of the r V. There's enough.
15:16
Speaker 1: There's enough license plate tracking technology, and it's not going
15:19
Speaker 1: to be that prevalent in that part of the country,
15:21
Speaker 1: but there are going to be points at which you're
15:23
Speaker 1: going to find the vehicle driven past the toll booth
15:27
Speaker 1: or a police car with the with the technology in it.
15:30
Speaker 1: So at some point you'll be able to reverse track
15:33
Speaker 1: the movements of that vehicle from assuming it was happening
15:36
Speaker 1: in South Padre Island to the border. So we have
15:39
Speaker 1: a photograph of the border and we have the ability
15:41
Speaker 1: to track back to be some extent, and if you're lucky,
15:44
Speaker 1: maybe you track them back to a gas station, to
15:46
Speaker 1: a store there's there's a surveillance camera. That's the way
15:50
Speaker 1: this case is going to be made. In my judge
15:51
Speaker 1: to you, Chloyd Steiger, former homicide detective and author Seattle's
15:57
Speaker 1: Forgotten Serial Killer Geary Jane Grant. Chloyd got a question
16:02
Speaker 1: for you, what if the tag has been changed out?
16:04
Speaker 1: I mean, any criminal worth of salt is going to
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Speaker 1: know to change out the license tag on the back
16:08
Speaker 1: of the RV. Well, you would think, but they should
16:11
Speaker 1: know that from the border cross at the border crossing,
16:13
Speaker 1: because they should have had their license plates photographed at
16:15
Speaker 1: the time. They Yeah, good, I know. I'll go across
16:19
Speaker 1: the border to Canada quite regularly and there are cameras
16:21
Speaker 1: everywhere taking pictures, and so I absume at the border
16:25
Speaker 1: they took pictures of the license plate and then they
16:27
Speaker 1: can see what was on that truck and camp or
16:29
Speaker 1: what it did. Well before we get to the border.
16:31
Speaker 1: What about tag grabbers? Can you explain with those? Are Chloyd? Okay?
16:35
Speaker 1: So there are automatic license plate readers that are really
16:38
Speaker 1: becoming bigger and bigger. Like your previous guests said, they're
16:41
Speaker 1: on police cars. There are toll bridges, they're everywhere that
16:46
Speaker 1: photograph your license plate. Cars going by, it'll record every plate.
16:50
Speaker 1: The police car one will record everybody that passes. So
16:53
Speaker 1: you can do a search of that and see again
16:56
Speaker 1: where they were. And the other option would be, of course,
16:59
Speaker 1: just to go back to where you know it last
17:02
Speaker 1: was and drive to the border and check every gas
17:04
Speaker 1: station and every store along the way and see if
17:07
Speaker 1: there is that vehicle on the surveillance video and then
17:10
Speaker 1: if there are people that are in it to Dave
17:14
Speaker 1: Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. This is the
17:17
Speaker 1: timeline as I understand it. On October fourteen, you've got
17:20
Speaker 1: this newlywed couple checking out of Padre Bali campground. Kayla
17:26
Speaker 1: learned that from the cops press conference that they held
17:29
Speaker 1: October fifteen. The next day, the last Facebook was posted
17:34
Speaker 1: of them setting up on Bernard's Beach near Corpus Christie
17:37
Speaker 1: same day. Michelle last speaks to her son following day
17:42
Speaker 1: October sixteen, their last known text, assuming it was sent
17:48
Speaker 1: by them. Next day, October seventeen, they miss a very
17:52
Speaker 1: important FaceTime that they had already scheduled with their granddaughter
17:56
Speaker 1: to see her open a package that they sent from Bluff.
18:01
Speaker 1: October nineteen, the camper is seen on Burner's Beach without
18:07
Speaker 1: the truck. October twenty one, the RV and the truck
18:12
Speaker 1: are both gone. GPS devices can no longer detect their vehicles,
18:19
Speaker 1: so that means that GPS devices have been removed. So
18:25
Speaker 1: Flower Bluff is actually in Corpus Christi, Texas, so that's
18:29
Speaker 1: not that far away. To Dave Matt, do I have
18:33
Speaker 1: the timeline down correctly? Absolutely? The reason that Flower Bluff
18:37
Speaker 1: is important Nancy is. As I mentioned a few minutes ago,
18:39
Speaker 1: the grandparents here were buying specific stuff for their five
18:43
Speaker 1: year old granddaughter and they wanted to see her open
18:46
Speaker 1: the package. It was just going to be one of
18:47
Speaker 1: those sweet moments, and so they had mailed it out
18:50
Speaker 1: from Flower Bluff. They knew exactly when it was going
18:52
Speaker 1: to arrive, and everything was pre planned ahead of time
18:55
Speaker 1: for this FaceTime call to be made. Take a listen
18:58
Speaker 1: to our friends at Fox. The couple had been camping
19:02
Speaker 1: on Pondre Island just off Corpus Christie last month with
19:06
Speaker 1: their truck and RV trailer in their journey of traveling
19:09
Speaker 1: the US. Their bodies were discovered October twenty seventh. The
19:13
Speaker 1: two were in constant contact with their family and friends
19:16
Speaker 1: while they Zigzaga Country for the last year. Both were
19:19
Speaker 1: very active on Facebook, posting a travel diary about the
19:23
Speaker 1: places they stopped along the way, which included New York, Virginia, Beach, Tennessee, Colorado,
19:29
Speaker 1: New Mexico, Arizona, and then Texas, where they were last
19:33
Speaker 1: believed to be working as gate guards. That's a common
19:36
Speaker 1: pickup job for our veers who work with security companies
19:39
Speaker 1: to help man the entrances of oil fields, logging traffic,
19:43
Speaker 1: people going in and out, crime stories with Nancy Grace.
20:00
Speaker 1: Investigators say both vehicles were lasting on surveillance video between
20:05
Speaker 1: October twentieth and twenty first, crossing the US Mexico border.
20:09
Speaker 1: The driver was not James or Michelle. Police haven't named
20:14
Speaker 1: a possible suspect. John Matthews is a former Dallas police officer.
20:18
Speaker 1: He says US authorities will have to work closely with
20:21
Speaker 1: Mexican authorities to get answers. They're gonna be looking for
20:25
Speaker 1: bullet case scenes. They're gonna be looking for any evidence
20:28
Speaker 1: they can tie back to the suspect. The couple had
20:31
Speaker 1: five grown children and one grandchild. Over the weekend it
20:34
Speaker 1: was James Butler's birthday. He would have turned forty nine
20:37
Speaker 1: years old. Who David Kat's CEO Global Security Group. How
20:42
Speaker 1: is it that this other couple are These other people
20:46
Speaker 1: were spotted and the Butler's RV. Clearly they're involved to
20:51
Speaker 1: some extent. We don't know to what extent in what
20:54
Speaker 1: happened to the couple. That the reason I think I
20:56
Speaker 1: said earlier that they had did not change the places
20:59
Speaker 1: because they found very they found the vehicle identified the
21:02
Speaker 1: vehicle very quickly at the border crossing. And then it
21:03
Speaker 1: was a simple matter of checking the cameras at the
21:06
Speaker 1: crossing just to see it was driving. And we find
21:09
Speaker 1: Lo and behold, it's not mister Butler, it's someone else
21:12
Speaker 1: and apparently an unidentified female in the passenger seat. So
21:17
Speaker 1: this couple is now driving the deceased couples RV crossing
21:22
Speaker 1: into Mexico. Okay, now, I don't know what could be
21:25
Speaker 1: more scary than that finding out your loved one vehicle
21:29
Speaker 1: crosses the border and somebody else is driving. There's no
21:32
Speaker 1: sign of them. To Cloyd Steiger, Cloyd is at SOP
21:37
Speaker 1: at the border, every vehicle gets photographed. Yeah, that's my
21:40
Speaker 1: experience that they have, you know, photographs that do all
21:44
Speaker 1: the license plates of every vehicle passing. I've actually used
21:47
Speaker 1: that in cases where I had a suspect vehicle and
21:49
Speaker 1: I could show them going back across, back and forth
21:52
Speaker 1: across the border. So obviously they had to show some
21:56
Speaker 1: kind of documents that probably ford for stolen documents to
21:59
Speaker 1: get back into Mexico. And I don't know, you know,
22:01
Speaker 1: how how firm the Mexican Border Patrol is on that stuff.
22:05
Speaker 1: But that's certainly the first thing you look at you know,
22:10
Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, if I could you know to that
22:12
Speaker 1: point jump in to that point. Do we know? We
22:15
Speaker 1: don't know whether the couple, we don't know what happened
22:18
Speaker 1: to their identification. And if you look, if you look
22:21
Speaker 1: at the individual driving that truck, he seems like he
22:23
Speaker 1: seems a lot younger than mister Butler. But if someone
22:27
Speaker 1: is not paying attention and someone hands someone a document
22:30
Speaker 1: in the name of somebody else driving the vehicle registered
22:33
Speaker 1: that same individual, how closely is that official going to
22:36
Speaker 1: be checking to see whether, in fact the drive is
22:39
Speaker 1: is who who the name is on the on the
22:42
Speaker 1: passport or other identifications. That's a really good point. They
22:46
Speaker 1: do have similarities to the real owners the Butler couple.
22:50
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Stephanie Ramos at ABC.
22:53
Speaker 1: They were very well known in town. The family of
22:57
Speaker 1: James and Michelle Butler say they were alvid Row trippers
23:00
Speaker 1: on a journey to see America and beloved in their
23:03
Speaker 1: hometown of Rumney, New Hampshire. George Bomphiglio met the two
23:07
Speaker 1: after he purchased a store in the town and they
23:10
Speaker 1: worked together. Sam by side by side is very great,
23:13
Speaker 1: outgoing people. Police say. On October fifteenth, the retirees parked
23:17
Speaker 1: their camper on Padre Island in Texas. Six days later,
23:21
Speaker 1: the camper was captured on surveillance at a border crossing
23:24
Speaker 1: in Mexico. The Butlers had been on the road since
23:27
Speaker 1: June and were in constant contact with their families, so
23:31
Speaker 1: when they missed a scheduled call, the family reported them missing.
23:35
Speaker 1: We kind of knew that there was something really wrong
23:38
Speaker 1: because there's no way that he would one allow somebody
23:41
Speaker 1: else to take the truck and RV two take it
23:45
Speaker 1: across to Mexico. We're hoping to find who it was
23:48
Speaker 1: responsible and get an answer, you know, Julie Randelman, New
23:51
Speaker 1: York defense attorney. I don't know about you, but you're
23:54
Speaker 1: hearing their family and their long time neighbors. That was
23:59
Speaker 1: George un Figlio speaking, stating they would never just hand
24:03
Speaker 1: their RV over somebody they don't know. I don't even
24:06
Speaker 1: like it. And my husband gives my minivan because the
24:09
Speaker 1: side mirrors are changed, the seats change is just not
24:12
Speaker 1: the same. Plus I don't think he handles it gently enough.
24:15
Speaker 1: You know, Toyota is a very sensitive, long story, short
24:19
Speaker 1: family says they would never hand over their RV to
24:23
Speaker 1: somebody else. That's what we call behavioral evidence. When you
24:28
Speaker 1: see something out of the ordinary that doesn't fit in,
24:31
Speaker 1: it becomes circumstantial, evident. Absolutely, And keep in mind, this
24:34
Speaker 1: is again a couple that was always in touch with
24:38
Speaker 1: their family. You know, even though they wanted to travel
24:41
Speaker 1: a lot, which by the way, I completely envy. You know,
24:45
Speaker 1: they were in touch with them and there was absolutely
24:48
Speaker 1: no reason they would have turned their their vehicle over
24:51
Speaker 1: to someone, let alone have it travel over the Mexican border.
24:55
Speaker 1: So absolutely right to David kat CEO Global Security, agree,
25:00
Speaker 1: what safety precautions are there at the Mexican border, the
25:04
Speaker 1: US Mexican border to figure out who is crossing back
25:09
Speaker 1: and forth. Well, you know, you have the license plate,
25:11
Speaker 1: ride of technology, you have photographs, you have you have
25:13
Speaker 1: a large, large law enforcement presence. But going into Mexico,
25:19
Speaker 1: you're you're you're at the behest of the Mexican officials,
25:22
Speaker 1: the other ones checking you're checking the entry paperwork. You know,
25:25
Speaker 1: typically you know, if you if you if you if
25:27
Speaker 1: you imagine you take a plane, you want to fly
25:29
Speaker 1: to France, You're not you have to show your passport,
25:32
Speaker 1: of course, but you're not going through US border control
25:35
Speaker 1: on the outbound journey, so it's the Mexican side, and
25:37
Speaker 1: the Mexicans, as we have unfortunately found out in many
25:40
Speaker 1: many cases, are not the best law enforcement presence in
25:44
Speaker 1: the world that could just you know, in this case,
25:46
Speaker 1: it's probably a very very cursory trip. There are many
25:49
Speaker 1: people crossing a high volume. It's just get them through
25:52
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. And you see a couple driving
25:54
Speaker 1: an RV, the assumption is that they're you know, for touristing,
25:57
Speaker 1: for you know, to shop, so they're not going to
26:00
Speaker 1: give them any meaningful level of scrutiny. Take a listen
26:03
Speaker 1: to our friend meg Oliver. Investigators released this image taken
26:07
Speaker 1: from surveillance video of a male and female driving the
26:11
Speaker 1: Butler's truck across the border into Mexico, four days after
26:15
Speaker 1: the couple was reported missing Clayburg County share Richard Kirkpatrick.
26:20
Speaker 1: Can you describe them? We don't know their names. As
26:24
Speaker 1: you can tell by the picture, it appears that they've
26:27
Speaker 1: got some distinguishing marks to them. Last year, the Butlers
26:31
Speaker 1: left their hometown in Rumney, New Hampshire, to explore the
26:34
Speaker 1: country in an RV. Their journey included recent stops throughout
26:39
Speaker 1: the Southwest. Along the way, they took odd jobs to
26:42
Speaker 1: pay for their dream adventure at a resort in Mesa, Arizona,
26:46
Speaker 1: in the oil fields in Laredo, Texas. He said, I've
26:51
Speaker 1: never seen the United States. Deborah Van Loon is James
26:54
Speaker 1: Butler's sister. She says James and Michelle kept in touch regularly.
26:59
Speaker 1: They were very good at staying in touch with their bay.
27:01
Speaker 1: They were awesome at sharing their daily adventures. You never
27:05
Speaker 1: think it'll be you, and then it is, and it's hard.
27:11
Speaker 1: I just got off the phone with the district attorney
27:13
Speaker 1: who says in arrest warrant for the man in that
27:15
Speaker 1: photo could happen as early as tomorrow morning. How do
27:19
Speaker 1: you issue an arrest warrant for somebody whose name you
27:23
Speaker 1: don't know? Now we do know their names. Take a
27:26
Speaker 1: listen to the press conference of the Kleeberg County Sheriff's Department.
27:31
Speaker 1: This time a rest warrant has been issued for felony theft.
27:35
Speaker 1: The individuals that are named are Adam Curtis Williams and
27:41
Speaker 1: an Amanda Novaire, who are being sought at She's being
27:45
Speaker 1: sought as a person of interest. At this time. We
27:48
Speaker 1: believe that Williams to be the driver of the vehicle
27:52
Speaker 1: that belonged to the Butlers, and at this person is
27:57
Speaker 1: considered armed and dangerous. We asked people not approach these individuals,
28:01
Speaker 1: but simply that we ask if you have had some contact,
28:05
Speaker 1: that you please come forward. Currently, we believe that these
28:09
Speaker 1: individuals may have on a law enforcement is weren't working
28:14
Speaker 1: with our Mexican and authority to locate the subjects subjects
28:19
Speaker 1: at this time and we are simply asking help and
28:22
Speaker 1: locating anything any of these person's interests if anyone knows them. Again,
28:30
Speaker 1: we just simply asked that if anybody has any information,
28:32
Speaker 1: please contact the Clayver County Sheriff's Office and at our
28:37
Speaker 1: telephone number three sixty one five nine five eight five
28:42
Speaker 1: zero zero. Partial remains of a person we're seeing in
28:56
Speaker 1: a shallow grave while life. It appears dug out the
29:00
Speaker 1: part of the shallow grave which exposed the body in
29:04
Speaker 1: what we secured it. We lit up the area, we
29:07
Speaker 1: put officers out there to secure it, and it wasn't
29:09
Speaker 1: and it was almost a nighttime, so it wasn't until
29:13
Speaker 1: the next morning we assembled our team. It wasn't until
29:16
Speaker 1: the next morning that we all arrived at daybreak, several
29:20
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies, several officers along with the DPS forensic Lab,
29:26
Speaker 1: DPS ranger and others who were out there to help us,
29:29
Speaker 1: and that's when we started to excivate the site and
29:32
Speaker 1: then we discover it, first the female body and then
29:37
Speaker 1: the male body. The bodies of James and Michelle Butler
29:41
Speaker 1: found there at Padre Island, which brings up a whole
29:45
Speaker 1: host forensic difficulties. To former Chief Medical Examiner Chris Sperry, So,
29:53
Speaker 1: at this point, weeks have passed, in what state do
29:58
Speaker 1: you believe the bodies were found? I would say they
30:00
Speaker 1: would be in moderately advanced decomposition down in South Texas
30:05
Speaker 1: and Padre Island. It's going to be very hot and uh,
30:09
Speaker 1: you know, the sand that they were buried in is
30:11
Speaker 1: also going to be extremely hot every day, So there
30:14
Speaker 1: would be, you know, the bodies would be badly decomposed, bloated,
30:18
Speaker 1: unidentifiable just visually, and from the description that the sheriff's
30:24
Speaker 1: deputy gave, it sounded like animals had already gotten into, uh,
30:30
Speaker 1: you know, into the area where the bodies were buried.
30:33
Speaker 1: So there's going to be evidence of animal predation as
30:38
Speaker 1: well as insects as well, insects, maggots, all kinds of
30:42
Speaker 1: different bugs. So it's going to be it would be
30:45
Speaker 1: very very difficult, if not impossible, to visually recognize either
30:49
Speaker 1: one of these folks. The couple found in a shallow
30:52
Speaker 1: grave on Padre Island near Corpus Christie. Their truck and
30:56
Speaker 1: RV trailer crossing the US Mexico border without them in it,
31:02
Speaker 1: driven by a man and a woman. Both vehicles sat
31:05
Speaker 1: on surveillance between October twenty and twenty one crossing the border.
31:11
Speaker 1: Absolutely the driver was not James or Michelle. To see
31:16
Speaker 1: the picture of the driver, go to crime online dot com.
31:20
Speaker 1: It's a very clear picture, Dave Mac. The driver now
31:25
Speaker 1: identified Dave mat crime online invest He had a reporter.
31:29
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about Adam Curtis Williams. Adam
31:33
Speaker 1: Curtis Williams is thirty three years old, a convicted felon.
31:37
Speaker 1: He has been known to carry multiple firearms that has
31:40
Speaker 1: actually faced time in prison for that, and he's known
31:43
Speaker 1: to be armed and dangerous. Does he have a record,
31:47
Speaker 1: Dave Mac, You know, Nancy the arrest record of Adam
31:51
Speaker 1: Curtis Williams is long and distinguished. He was arrested in
31:56
Speaker 1: Utah back in twenty ten after a long investigation that
32:01
Speaker 1: led to a drug bust. There two pounds of marijuana,
32:04
Speaker 1: more than thirty two hundred dollars in cash, stolen guns,
32:07
Speaker 1: thousand hydrocodone pills, and drug equipment. He was only twenty
32:11
Speaker 1: four at the time. Okay, this is where it gets
32:13
Speaker 1: a little confusing between the arrest, the charges, the convictions,
32:18
Speaker 1: and probation. Okay, he actually was on supervised release. A
32:22
Speaker 1: petition was filed alleging that he violated his supervised release
32:26
Speaker 1: in July of this year. Okay. The allegations for August
32:30
Speaker 1: fourth included possession of alcohol, assault or domestic violence, assault
32:34
Speaker 1: by a prisoner resisting arrest. The court documents noted that
32:37
Speaker 1: he was alleged to have committed rape, forcible sexual abuse,
32:41
Speaker 1: and forcible sodomy. In April of twenty nineteen, he was
32:46
Speaker 1: supposed to appear Monday in Logan's First District Court, the
32:50
Speaker 1: Standard Examiner reporter, but he missed that court appearance. He's
32:53
Speaker 1: also wanted for failing to appear based on charges of
32:55
Speaker 1: aggravated assault and assault by a prisoner. He didn't appear
32:58
Speaker 1: for that hearing on Octo over the eighth. You know,
33:00
Speaker 1: there's a lot of unknowns in this formula. The man
33:04
Speaker 1: and woman seen on surveilla is driving the Butler's truck
33:07
Speaker 1: in RV over the border. They are clearly recognizable, especially
33:12
Speaker 1: the man. Especially the man now Dave matt who's the
33:16
Speaker 1: woman with him? The woman sitting next to him in
33:19
Speaker 1: the front seat of the truck. Her name Amanda no Ver. Now,
33:23
Speaker 1: while there is an arrest warrant for Adam Curtis Williams
33:27
Speaker 1: for a felony theft, that's not the case with regard
33:30
Speaker 1: to Amanda no Ver. She is merely a person of interest.
33:34
Speaker 1: They want to talk to her. To doctor Chris Berry,
33:36
Speaker 1: former chief medical Examiner, looking at the bodies, although they've
33:40
Speaker 1: been buried in sand, what type of DNA would you
33:44
Speaker 1: be looking for to track back to the killers. When
33:47
Speaker 1: a body's been buried like this in the sand and
33:51
Speaker 1: the body is decomposing, then the likelihood of finding some
33:57
Speaker 1: touch DNA or transferred DNA from a trainer is really, really,
34:02
Speaker 1: really slim. Now, the potential still may exist if there's
34:07
Speaker 1: a fingernails scrapings, you know, if there's tissue or blood
34:12
Speaker 1: underneath the fingernails of either one of the victims. That possibility,
34:17
Speaker 1: I mean, it is real that you could recover some
34:19
Speaker 1: DNA from that, although even then the likelihood is maybe
34:23
Speaker 1: one out of a hundred times, So you know, there
34:26
Speaker 1: is a possibility, but it's slim. Yeah, it always looks
34:29
Speaker 1: so much more easy on TV. Chris Berry, this is
34:33
Speaker 1: what else we know? In a series Facebook posts following
34:38
Speaker 1: the law enforcement pressor, one man says he believes he
34:40
Speaker 1: is seeing the man in the photo and has contacted
34:44
Speaker 1: the sheriff. He says he's almost certainly saw the man
34:47
Speaker 1: on the beach and spoke to him that this guy
34:50
Speaker 1: was camped on North Beach and had a trailer in
34:54
Speaker 1: a very bad state of disrepair. We also know that
35:00
Speaker 1: Michelle's body was found on top of James's body. We
35:07
Speaker 1: know that the cell phone was pinging in the area
35:11
Speaker 1: south of Bob Hall Pier near mile marker twenty six
35:16
Speaker 1: three near padre Ballypark. Now we're learning so many different
35:21
Speaker 1: things for forensically, but during that press conference, cops state
35:25
Speaker 1: that the GPS coordinates were still being worked on. What
35:30
Speaker 1: more do we know? When asked how the Butlers died.
35:35
Speaker 1: Cops wouldn't comment. We also know that there were three
35:39
Speaker 1: cats in the RV with the Butlers. We don't know
35:43
Speaker 1: what happened to them. The Butler's left the Bally RV
35:47
Speaker 1: Park October fifteen. Right now, the tip line, right now,
35:54
Speaker 1: the tip line is open. Three six one five nine
35:58
Speaker 1: five eight five repeat three six one, five nine five
36:04
Speaker 1: eighty five hundred. If you have any information on James
36:09
Speaker 1: and Michelle Butlers and their death, please contact authorities now.
36:16
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off,
36:22
Speaker 1: goodbye friend