Latest / Pod Save America / "New Phone, Coup Dis?" (with Stacey Abrams!)

Transcript

"New Phone, Coup Dis?" (with Stacey Abrams!) · Pod Save America

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: On today's show, Republicans were even more complicit than we
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: thought in carrying out and covering up Donald Trump's coup.
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: Kevin McCarthy gets caught lying. Stacey Abrams joins to talk
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: about her race for governor, and later, some recommendations on
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: what to watch and read if you're planning to quit
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: Twitter now that it's owned by Elon Musk.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: But first.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Can I read you my favorite overreaction tweet?
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, we're going to do it now? Yeah, sure.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Well, this guy named Noah Pollack suggested that there be
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: a Truth and Reconciliation Committee to figure out if conservatives
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: were banned from Twitter. So, you know.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Everyone's taking this in stride, I think.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: A format usually reserved for, you know, apartheid or.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Not shadow bans.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: A lot of people are pretty confused about what Twitter is.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I thought it was people publishing sentences while on the toilet.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: But a lot of people seem to think they're crossing
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: the Delaware.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: And it's surprising.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I didn't mean to jump ahead.
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: Before we get into the news, check out Hot Take,
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: the newest Crooked podcast that provides an honest look at
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: the climate crisis. and all the ways media and society
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: are talking and not talking about it. On the latest episode,
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: hosts Mary Anais Hegler and Amy Westervelt break down the
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: origins of Earth Day and name the biggest enemies in
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: the fossil fuel industry. Also this week on America Dissected, Dr.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: Abdul El-Sayed talks to Ai-jen Poo, co-founder and executive director
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: of the National Domestic Workers Alliance, about society's treatment of
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: care workers and how their work continues to be undervalued.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: New episodes of Hot Take drop every Friday, and America
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: Dissected every Tuesday.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Hot take, crew.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: They don't like BP.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: They're not fans of BP. Not fans of BP. Who is?
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Or, frankly, Greenwashing on Earth Day.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Great episode. Great episode. Check it out.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: You guys have asked for so long, is there going
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: to be a climate podcast on Crooked Media?
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: There is now a climate podcast.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: There is.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: As part of the Crooked Media family.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Check it out. Go check it out. Go check it out.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: All right, let's get to the news. New revelations about
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump's attempted coup after the 2020 election tell a
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: story of a Republican party that was both in on
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: the crime and the cover-up. CNN has more Mark Meadows texts.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: Gift that keeps on giving. That guy's fun.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: We're going to get it. But it's so funny to
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: me that he turned over this incredibly incriminating trove of
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: texts and then said, no more cooperation. I'm done.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just all of my texts ever.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: The barn door cannot be closed.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: He also withheld a thousand messages.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Imagine what's in those.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was going to say, because included in this
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: latest group that CNN has is Marjorie Taylor Greene, saying
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: that she and other MAGA House members want Trump to
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: declare martial law. They also had Trump aide Jason Miller
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: suggesting that the president tweet that the insurrectionists are all Antifa.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: So that's where that came from. You can thank Jason Miller.
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: Separately, the January 6th committee filed a brief in court
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: the other day that shows even though Secret Service warned
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: Meadows that there were intel reports about potential violence on
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: the 6th, the White House chief of staff and several
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: MAGA congressmen strategized about sending protesters to the Capitol building.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: after Trump's speech. And in their soon-to-be-released book about the
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: aftermath of 2020, New York Times reporters Jonathan Martin and
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: Alex Burns report that soon after January 6th, House Minority
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: Leader Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell, quote, McCarthy quickly called
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: the report totally false. before being almost immediately humiliated by
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: the release of an audio recording that suggests otherwise.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Let's listen. The only discussion I would have with him
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: is that I think this.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: Will pass, and it would be my recommendation we should
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: move on.
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: I've had it with this guy.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: What he did is unacceptable. Nobody can defend that, and
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: nobody should defend it.
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: Before we get to McCarthy, what do you guys think
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: is particularly notable or significant.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: In.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: Those Meadows texts that CNN obtained or the Meadows court
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: filing from the weekend.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: A lot of Meadows news.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: A lot of news.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: Also, credit to Kevin for being audible with that ball
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: gag in his mouth. That is not easy.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Don't kink shame Kevin McCarthy. No, no, no. He's just
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: bringing up the kimp. He's fine. Don't kink shame. Obviously,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Kevin McCarthy enjoys being dominated both politically and probably also sexually.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong. I didn't mean sexually.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: I just meant politically.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I know, but I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Mm-hmm.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Anyways, I have some notable texts.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I have some notable texts. I have so many.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Go ahead.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: First of all, not only did people... It was so
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: clear to even the most right-wing members that Trump was
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: responsible for this insurrection. They were desperately texting from inside
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: the Capitol. Even Marjorie Taylor Greene was texting, please tell
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: the president to calm people. This isn't the way to
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: solve anything.
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: The way to solve it is through martial law. Let's
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: have some orderly martial law, not none of this nonsense
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: of people running around the Capitol.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: The other thing about, obviously, martial law is these people
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: are fascists and authoritarians. But I don't even understand. It's
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: like step one, martial law. Step two, what? What do
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: you get with martial law? You just shut the whole
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: country down and then all of a sudden he's won
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: the election. Just sort of baffling. It's just they're kind
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: of doing authoritarian jazz.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: She also spelled it M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Of course she did.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Just a small thing.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Of course she did because everything is very stupid and
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: very important.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: She also said some members of the caucus are suggesting
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: martial law. I don't know on these things. I just
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: wanted you to tell him.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: What does that even mean?
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: You want to alternate?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: This is one of my favorites. I just like how
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: the range of requests for Mark Meadows is so broad.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: Bernie Carrick texts Mark Meadows and asks him for hotel
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: accommodations and a ride from the airport.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: It's the White House chief of staff. The chief of
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: staff is like, yo, can you pick me up? One
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: of the most powerful people in the world. At Dulles.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: I wonder if it was Dulles or DCA. That's actually
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: a big distinction.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Wild.
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: He did call him sir in those requests, though. Sir,
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: we need a ride and we need a hotel. Sir,
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: I do not like that Radisson.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Sir... So, obviously, one of the funniest aspects of these
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: texts is Rick Perry denied this ever happened, but Rick
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Perry signs his text, Rick Perry, with his phone number,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: and they confirmed it's his number. So Rick Perry was
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: texting to incite the coup. But one, I think, more
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: chilling aspect of this was that it was around Jeffrey Clark,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: this Trump apparatchik inside of the DOJ. And one thing
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: that does come across through all of these text messages
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: is this was a coup that didn't fail for lack
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: of effort. They didn't have enough... people on their side
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: in a few very key places. And you read these
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: texts and you realize how close we were. A few
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: other turns, a few abilities to get one or a
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: few places where they can get one or two more
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Trumpists in place of the Department of Justice. Pence goes
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: the other way under an incredible amount of pressure. We
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: could be in a very different country right now.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Well, they're all talking about that in all of these texts, too.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: Many different people suggest, oh, we just got to send
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: it back to the states because they were all very confident.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: that if they got back to the state legislatures, that
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: the state legislatures, controlled by Republicans in a lot of
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: these states, would just send an alternate slate of electors,
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: and then we'd be in chaos.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: I also liked when Sean Hannity was asking for his
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: marching orders from Mark Meadows, and his response was, yes, sir,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Hannity replied. So, you know, speaking of sirs, he does
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: get respect from Sean. The other great one that just
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: tells you everything you know about all this crew is
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: you can see Jason Miller making up lies in real
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: time and suggesting that Trump should tweet them. So he's...
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Like 345 that day, Jason Miller is saying we should
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: tweet that Antifa infiltrated the January 6th crowd.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Get that out there.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: He wants Trump to blame Antifa for the insurrection. And again,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: like the demoralizing thing is Jason Miller, still a source
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: for tons of reporters quoted all the time, spinning these stories.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: And speaking of Jason Miller lying.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: So.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: You know, one thing we are learning is that a
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: lot of the people involved in this illegal effort to
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: overturn the election were told it was illegal in advance,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: which is important. They knew it was illegal. It is
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: also important that a lot of them were told that
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: there was a risk of violence. That is very clear.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: The other piece of this is Miller is basically trying to,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I think before he realized just how fast this bus
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: was going, was trying to stop it. And he said, hey,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: we're looking at the data here. We can't find this
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: fraud that you're if if there was basically because Trump
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: overperformed in certain urban areas, there wasn't some there was
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: no way to find evidence of some stuffed ballots because
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: they just the votes weren't there. That's not where. Biden
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: was winning, and Miller is pointing this out. So in
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: real time, they're also very much aware that what they're
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: talking about are just bald-faced lies.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: Which is very important as we get into the legal
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: ramifications of all this, because again, they're all saying, oh,
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: we're just objecting because we really believed there was voter fraud,
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: but they didn't really believe there was voter fraud, because
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: they knew there wasn't voter fraud. And also, the texts
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: are very fun, but that filing that the January 6th
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: committee filed in court to get the rest of Meadows' texts,
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: you know, There has been plenty of public evidence since
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: January 6th that Trump incited the crowd. But the question
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: that hasn't been answered is to what extent did Trump
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: and his senior staff plan, organize and direct the riot itself?
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: And why didn't they stop it earlier? And now we're
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: starting to see, well, the Secret Service, you know, said
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: there were intel reports that there's going to be violence.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: And knowing that those reports were true. Meadows and a
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: bunch of members of Congress were still like, yeah, we
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: should send this crowd to the Capitol, even if we
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: know there.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Could be violence. Yeah, they didn't care.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Which is ridiculous. Part of the plan.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Let's turn to the man Trump once referred to as
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Mike Kevin.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Mike Kevin. The guy who once gave him his favorite Starbursts. Remember?
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Was it pink or red? It was pink and red. Okay.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: It was both.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: Trump likes pink and red the best, so Kevin McCarthy
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: bought a bag of Starbursts, picked out all the red
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: and pink Starbursts, put them in a jar, put his
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: name on the jar. Said this is from Kevin McCarthy
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: to Donald Trump and sent him the jar.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Pink and red are the best, though.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: What was your reaction to the phone call, to the
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: audio recording, and to McCarthy's pretty terrible attempt at lying
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: about it?
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Tommy?
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: Here's my little progression of feelings about this.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: What an idiot.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: How did he not know there were tapes? This is
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: a big conference call. Liz Cheney was on it. She
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: hates her guts now.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Wait.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: McCarthy believes in nothing. He has no dignity. He has
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: no integrity. He just wants power. And his read on
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: the last half decade of politics is that lying about
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: everything doesn't matter. Watch Trump.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: He did it. It worked for him.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: The press corps won't even use the word lie half
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: the time. So what's the downside? Then I thought, oh,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: how can reporters ever quote McCarthy again after this? Then
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: I thought, oh, wait, they absolutely will. Half of them
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: said he was caught in a falsehood. It wouldn't even
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: call it a lie. Then I wept into my hands.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: And then I just remembered, oh, yeah, Kevin McCarthy can't
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: be speaker if Trump doesn't back him. And that's all
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: he cares about.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: End of scene. Love it. I think they got it.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: Scenes from a marriage.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, so it's not, do we know right now
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: who recorded it? Liz Cheney denies that.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: She's the person who recorded it.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, I assumed it was her. But she's denying it
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: to the, I think, whatever. Of course she would.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, who would say, yeah, it was me?
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: We don't know who else, I mean, we don't know
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: the full, whatever.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: She's been on an integrity kick lately, so I'm inclined
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: to trust her. Yeah, thank you for whoever recorded it. Yeah,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, it struck me that the, The statements, McCarthy's
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: a liar and he doesn't care about having credibility, doesn't
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: care with the mainstream press reports. But it did strike
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: me that he denied it with the enthusiasm and confidence
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: of someone who wasn't aware that the conversation was recorded. Yeah,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: that was weird. Because it was a problem. I mean,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: it took him three days to figure out what to
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: do and he had to go to the border so
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: that he could be asked about it so that he
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: could change the subject to the border. That's a 2,000
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: mile flight to evade the question.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: That was years ago. This is today.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: And what happened is the reporter asked me if I
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: called President Trump and said, will you resign? And I
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: didn't call him. I was talking to members about something.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: I'm like, no, no, that's actually, that's not true. Now
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: he lied again at the border because what the.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Because he says, here's what I think.
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: Because what they actually asked him in his spokesman was,
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: is it true that you told members that you were
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: thinking of calling him resigning?
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: He said, no, that's not true.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no nuance in the denial.
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: There was no nuance in the, it was just a lie.
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: By the way, Mitch McConnell, sort of going under the
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: radar here, because McCarthy, there was a recording, but McConnell
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: said at one point, the Democrats are going to take
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: care of the son of a bitch for us.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: If this isn't impeachable, I don't know what is.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: Mitch McConnell, who, as we talked about a couple weeks ago,
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: then chatted with Jonathan Swan and said, oh yeah, absolutely, nominee, absolutely,
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: I support him.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And has ultimately voted against impeachment. Mitch can count votes.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: He knows that that's not, the weird thing about that
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: quote is he knows that's not possible. The Democrats couldn't
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: have taken care of him for them.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe he thought it was just like he was
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: going to get it from the House and then that's fine,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: which he did.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Look, Democrats are going to take care of Trump for him.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Let's believe in ourselves. Bet on you. Let's have as
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: much faith in us as McConnell has in us. You
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Yeah, well.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: So there were some people, including me, who thought that
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: this revelation would might cause Trump and MAGA World to
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: turn on McCarthy and endanger his political future. Like you
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: just said, Tommy, he can't be speaker without Trump's support.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: But Trump apparently told McCarthy, I'm not mad at you,
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: after McCarthy called him after this whole episode and begged
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: for forgiveness.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Love it. What do you make of Trump's reaction?
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Trump's quotes on this. I think it's all a big compliment, frankly.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: They realized they were wrong and supported me. He said,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I like him. And other than that brief period of time,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I suspect he likes me quite a bit. That's what
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Trump said about Kevin McCarthy.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: They're all just like really self-serving quotes.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, no, he doesn't care.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: He thinks it makes him look strong and powerful, said
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: a lying Trump aide on background to some credulous reporter.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: But then Trump did a poolside interview with The Wall
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: Street Journal and then repeated all the same lines.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: The only thing better to Donald Trump than someone who
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: has been crawling on their hands and knees behind him
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: for years is someone who claimed that they were tougher
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: and better and didn't need him and were stronger and
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: were against him and ended up right back on their
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: knees crawling behind, too. He loves it. He loves it.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: I mean, I also think, you know, Trump wants to
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: be liked, of course. He desperately wants to be liked.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: But what he wants even more is to be feared.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: And McCarthy fears him. And McConnell fears him. And they
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: all fall in line. And he wants them all to
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: fall in line. And they all have fallen in line. And, like,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: you know, as we... I saw Dan tweet this, but
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: he was like, you know, the real conclusion from this
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: whole thing is if... Republicans take the House and Kevin
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: McCarthy's speaker, he's under Donald Trump's control. He'll do whatever
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump wants him to do and sold Mitch McConnell
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: until the end of time.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: And the most important thing Kevin McCarthy did is not
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: briefly flirt with private bravery on the phone with Liz Cheney.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: The most important thing he did was lead his caucus
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: to try to overturn the election in the House.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Because his entire caucus voted. He could not stop it.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: He was aligned with it. And so you look at
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Kevin McCarthy, you put Kevin McCarthy as speaker. That is
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: that is someone who will lead the Republican caucus to
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: overturning an election. That is what they already did. That
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: is what they will do again. So why not keep
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: him there?
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Trump sort of owned him before this happened.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: Now he owns him more. I mean, mostly this is
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: getting suppressed. Like Fox News is not really reporting on
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: the story. The Bannon types are really pissed about it,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: and they're out there raising hell, like him and Boris F.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Stein on the show.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, they are still mad about it.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I dip back into my war room.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: We have our special correspondent here.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: I've been trying to not do that for a while,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to go back in. Bannon's out there saying, okay,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: now we own Kevin. Now Kevin has to be 100% MAGA.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: That means he has to stop going against MAGA candidates
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: in primaries. That means he has to put forward MAGA policies.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Where has he been anything but 100% MAGA recently?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're going to hold him down and carve
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: a swastika in his forehead.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: I just, you know, but like Sarah Longwell, who writes
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: for The Bulwark, does a lot of focus groups, said
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: she did a focus group of Trump voters in Ohio,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: asked them if they'd heard anything about Kevin McCarthy lately.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: It was crickets.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: No one had heard of it. It's just not getting
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: reported out. So the bigger sin on this call was
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: maybe McCarthy saying he wanted Twitter to strip Republicans like
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: Boebert and I think MTG of their social media accounts.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: That is like, you know, you can't do that.
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, this is definitely a story that in no
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: way is going to like break through to most people
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: in the country. It's only interesting if Trump decided that
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: he was pissed off at McCarthy over this or if
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: other Republicans are pissed off at McCarthy about this for
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: what you just said, Tommy, and then it jeopardizes his
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: path to being Speaker someday.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: And Matt Gaetz tweaked out, put out a statement attacking McCarthy,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: but that was kind of it.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: He kind of.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Jumped the gun on that.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I don't think he jumped the gun. I did it
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: because he wanted to get his shots in before Trump
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: stopped him. But just one other point about this, too,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: is I wish there was more of a connection being
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: made between the willingness of people like Rick Perry, Kevin McCarthy,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: others in these texts to just not issue non-denial denials,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: not to elide the truth, but to just look reporters
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: in the eyes, look people in the eyes and just
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: lie with the content of the messages themselves. There is something.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: I know, man. There's something they have in common, which is, hey,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: like these are not, obviously these people are not on
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: the level, but it's worse than that, right? Like they're
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: not in a democracy with you. They're not in a
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: civil society with you. They're not engaged in a great
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: debate with you to see who should win elections and
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: take power the old-fashioned way. They are trying to control
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: power in any way that they can. And in the
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: same way, Tommy, as you point out, that they kind of,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: there's almost like an emergent lie of blaming Antifa that
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: pops up through these texts. You see that same emergent
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: lie of coming up with false voter fraud ideas, coming
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: up with Dominion theories, Soros theories, all these theories that
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: start popping up in these texts purely because they just
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: need something to say and they know it isn't true.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: They'll cling to anything.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: So Trump had a similar reaction to pass criticism from
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Ohio Senate candidate J.D. Vance, who he endorsed at a
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: rally this weekend.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: He's a guy that said some bad shit about me.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: He did.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: But you know what? Every one of the others did also.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: In fact, if I went by that standard, I don't
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: think I would have ever endorsed anybody in the country.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: That's a good point.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I guess, since when does Trump not hold a grudge?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: The guy is just riding high. He's generous. He's sitting
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: on his throne dispensing. He's sitting there dispensing indulgences. Magnanimous. Yeah,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: just giving people their lordships and their earldoms, you know? Yeah.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: I think this just comes back to, like, Trump knows
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: that the other major opponent in this race, Josh Mandel,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: he might literally be a serial killer. You know, like,
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: if he had Someone just chained in his basement for
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: half a decade. Like, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: I think Trump knows that. He likes to gossip about
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: us in the Daily Beast.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: It's been reported. I think he's also one of the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: dumbest human beings alive.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: He's just horrendous.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: And also, Peter Thiel's money and influence is big and prominent.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: And I think, like, actually means something.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think Trump would rather be with a winner
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: who pretends to like him than a loser who actually
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: likes him.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: That's what he wants. Yeah.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: You can like him or not like him. You just
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: got to be a winner.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: And you can't want it too hard in his presence.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: He doesn't like that. That's what Lindsey Graham taught us.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: You can't supplicate too much.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: Before we move on, we should again point out that
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: the MAGA wing of the Republican Party is also busy
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: making sure that their next coup succeeds. Over the weekend,
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: the Michigan Republican Party nominated Matt DiPerno for attorney general.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: and Christina Karamo for Secretary of State, two Trump-endorsed candidates
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: who have no real qualifications other than being election fraud activists.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Guys, what do we know about these two?
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Election fraud activists is such a convivial term.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Look, they're just trying to change the world.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: These are some wild people. Does anyone want to, Tommy,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: do you want to know about these idiots?
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, Kristen Karamo, who would be the Secretary of
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: State if she wins her election, she would then go
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: on to oversee cybersecurity of elections, audits, general trust and
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: transparency in the next contest. She doesn't believe in evolution.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: She doesn't think she should be taught in schools. She
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: calls public schools government indoctrination camps. She speaks at QAnon gatherings,
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: including the convention in Vegas, which, you know.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: That's a tough booking, so good for her. Also, that's
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: the big one. You don't want to miss that one.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: You don't want to miss that one.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: I'm always looking for an excuse to go to Vegas, boys.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: She thinks Antifa's behind the insurrection. She's the anti-vaxxer.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, basically, like, she, you know, we laugh at that.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Description you had at the top of who these people are,
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: but she showed up at the vote counting center in Detroit.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: she saw someone, you know, she spotted a ballot on
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: the screen where a voter appeared to have cast their
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: ballot along straight party lines for both main parties. And
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: she heard some supervisor tell a poll worker to push
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: the ballot through. She decided that meant give that vote
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: to Biden. What the head of the election for the
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: state of Michigan under Republicans and Democrats for years say
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: is that she just completely misunderstood what she heard. And
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: what they were saying is, okay, like, don't count that vote,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: but put it in the bill where we don't discard it.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: Just sort of like, It just sits in sort of
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: a pending area, but it doesn't get fraudulently counted for
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: anybody because this voter obviously voted for two candidates. But
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: this story she told made her a celebrity, got her
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: a ton of money, and now she is the nominee.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, she is out there.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: With 67% of the vote.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: Said LGBT people violate God's creative design. She called Republicans
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: who don't support her traitors. She called Democrats satanic. she
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: said that all the police officers who testified before the
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: January 6th committee are crisis actors.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, good. Yeah, yeah.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: So Amanda Carpenter at the Bulwark had the story about
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: these two. By the way, DeParno, we haven't talked about him,
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: Matt DeParno, he wants to be attorney general. He filed
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: a bunch of lawsuits saying that he has proof the
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: voting machines were corrupted. They all got thrown out, of course.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: He also has promised that if he's elected, he'll prosecute
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: and imprison the current Democratic attorney general.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: So that's his campaign promise. Amanda Carpenter was saying that
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: the Michigan GOP They actually had a questionnaire for all
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: of these candidates just to decide whether they're going to
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: endorse them or not in the general election. And on
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: the questionnaire, there were questions like, define a rhino in
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: your own words.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: What do you believe happened at the U.S. Capitol on
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: January 6th? Were you there?
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: By the way, what I like about these questions, too,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: is they're like flying off the fucking handle because there's
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: a math textbook that asks a kid how they feel
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: about math. These are the most feelings-based fucking people. An election,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: who wins an election is based primarily on how it
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: feels to you in the moment.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: What do you believe happened on election day, November 3rd?
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: Do you believe there was fraud? Do you support a
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: full forensic audit and investigation? Should Dominion voting machines be removed?
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: And should election officials be held accountable, prosecuted, and removed
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: for violations? That was the questions asked. And of course,
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: you can imagine how... how DiPerno and Karamo answered all
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: of those questions.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Ten out of ten. Five on the AP.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: So that is the.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: So they will officially be endorsed at the party's convention soon.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: That will be your Republican candidate for Attorney General and
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: your Republican candidate for Secretary of State, the top elections
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: official in the state of Michigan.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: That's how important that race is.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Karamo is the first election denying Secretary of State
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: to get to the general election, but one of like
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: a dozen or more nationwide who is running, so... Scary
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: trend there.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: VoteSaveAmerica.com slash midterms, guys. Go and sign up for a region.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: Who's got the Midwest?
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Is that you, Tommy?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Hey, Tommy, isn't this your region? It sure is, guys.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: This is why we got to care about top of
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: the ticket and down ballot.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. So go help. When we come back.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Throw Tommy's Midwestern region some love. Yeah, please. Sign up.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Come on.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Come on, they got cheese curds up there. We do.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: They got cheese curds and election denier activists.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: We got election deniers. We got cheese curds. Detroit style pizza.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: All kinds of.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Things in Wisconsin that are fun.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Culver's.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: That's selling it.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Culver's, yeah. That's selling it right there. Yeah, we can go.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: All right, sign up. Let's go for a trip.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: All right, when we come back, Lovett and I will
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: talk to Stacey Abrams.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I also asked about Star Trek. Joining us now, one of.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: Our favorite guests, she's the founder of Fair Fight, former
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: Georgia House Minority Leader, state party leader, and hopefully the
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: next governor of Georgia, Stacey Abrams, welcome back to the pod.
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: So I'm sure you had.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: Better things to do than watch last night's primary debate
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: between Brian Kemp and David Perdue. But what's your reaction
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: from what you've heard about it? And more broadly, how
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: does your message change depending on which one of those
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: goobers wins the Republican primary?
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: Well, if last night's debate is any indication, my message
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: doesn't need to change at all. I'm the only one
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: actually talking about Georgians. and their lives, their needs. They spent,
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: to my count, most of the debate either debating who
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: cost whom, whatever power they think they're entitled to, but
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: more importantly, they spent their time relitigating instead of pressing
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: the issue of how do we serve Georgians going forward.
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: I believe that this is an opportunity for us to
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: look at the pain and the anxiety that people are feeling,
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: to acknowledge that COVID is not gone, It may be receding,
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: but it is not gone. That the aftereffects remain with us.
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: That inflation and crime are real salient issues for many people.
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: And they know this too will pass, but they need
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: to know how. And they need to know who's willing
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: to lead them. And unfortunately, there was not a moment
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: dedicated last night to actually articulating a plan for Georgia.
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: There was casting aspersions, casting blame, and casting about for
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: reasons why I shouldn't be the governor. But nothing to
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: say why either of them should either get to keep
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: the job or get to have the job.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Follow-up question. As the president of United Earth, do you
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: feel you did enough to prepare for the dark matter anomaly?
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Was there an intelligence failure with regard to unknown species 10C?
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: And do you view the evacuation of planet Earth as
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: a setback for your administration?
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: I do not believe it was a setback. I do
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: believe that we used the information and the intelligence once
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: we had it. I'm proud of the leadership shown by
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: our military and by the support that we received from
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: the reconvening federation. And I look forward to working together
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: and rejoining the federation so that we can anticipate new
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: struggles for all life.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: That was like you guys just speaking in a foreign
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: language to me. Back to this race on this planet.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: This takes place on Earth, John. The ship did jump
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: 900 years into the future, but it takes place on Earth.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Of course. President of United Earth, reconstituting the Federation. Continue.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: So there are a lot of big issues at stake
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: in the midterms. Everything from voting rights to LGBT rights
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: to book bans, abortion. You have chosen to focus your
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: campaign primarily on Medicaid expansion. Can you talk about the
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: decision behind that?
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: I've centered Medicaid expansion as an avatar and as an
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: example of what we can do. The issues that you
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: named are all issues that have to do with quality
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: of life, the kind of lives we have, the access
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: to opportunity that communities and families want. And Medicaid expansion
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: is the beginning. It creates an opportunity for 500,000 Georgians
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: to have access to health care. And that means when
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: you get sick, when you feel A little under the weather,
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: instead of powering through, you can call and make an appointment.
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: If you have access to metformin, that means you don't
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: need access to insulin because you're able to take care
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: of yourself. So there's the health insurance piece. There's also
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: the jobs piece. Medicaid expansion in Georgia will create 64,000
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: new jobs. Those are good paying jobs across the entire state,
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: especially in rural communities. It saves hospitals. That means people's
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: lives are saved, but also jobs are saved. And writ large,
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: for everyone who has insurance who's thinking, well, what's in
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: it for me? Our costs go down when more people
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: have access. Poor people get sick whether they can afford
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: it or not. I know this for a fact. And
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: the reality is that if we expand Medicaid, everyone's costs
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: go down. And at a time when people are very
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: price sensitive, when we're paying attention to every penny, Medicaid
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: expansion is a $ 3. 5 billion infusion of Georgia taxpayer dollars
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: into our state coffers to help our fellow citizens And
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: take care of our communities. And so I start there
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: because it's about health care. It's about education because that
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: means we improve our property tax value so we can
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: put more into education. It's how we improve our economy.
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: It is the single most effective jobs program, health program
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: and infrastructure program I can imagine for Georgia.
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: So the Republicans in your state are obviously focused on
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: a lot of other things. The Georgia legislature is trying
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: to pass their own version of Florida's don't say gay bill.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: They're trying to pass a bill that limits how race
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: can be discussed in the classroom. They're trying to pass
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: book bans. So there's some strategists that say, you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: Democratic candidates should avoid taking the bait on these culture
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: war fights. Others say that's wrong. The Democrats should try
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: to fight and win these culture wars. What is your strategy, Ben?
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: what are you hearing from voters as you're traveling across
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: the state?
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: Our first responsibility is not to be so reductive. We're
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: talking about how our children learn, how they live. When
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: you have a conversation or when there is legislation that
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: will legitimize banning children from sports, what we're telling our
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: most vulnerable children And their most fragile moment is that
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: you don't belong. That's not a culture war. That is
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: a parenting issue. That is a people issue. That's a
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: humanity issue. And yes, we should talk about how we
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: want every child to feel they belong in our community.
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: When we talk about banning books, when there is legislation
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: to lie about our history, then we are teaching our
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: children history. either to tell the truth or to tell lies,
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: to either be resilient or to manufacture the truth that
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: they want. This is about how we grow strong, resilient
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: adults who become good citizens. When we have debates about
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: whether we talk about homosexuality and sexual orientation and sexual identity,
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: it's about how do we have conversations about who we are.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: This isn't about a war. This is about who we
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: are as people. And when we avoid conversations about humanity,
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: we allow inhumanity in. And so my responsibility is not
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: to take the bait by using whatever pejorative term they
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: choose to use, but to integrate these conversations into how
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: I talk about education, how I talk about the economy,
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: how I talk about leadership. We should want leaders who
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: want thoughtful, resilient adults who know that we've made mistakes,
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: but know that we can be better when we acknowledge
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: those mistakes and understand the history behind the mistakes and
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: the history behind it how we redeemed ourselves.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: So you're the governor of Georgia, and it's time to
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: appoint the leaders of your administration. You can only choose
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Star Trek characters.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Which Star Trek characters are you putting in key positions?
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: I would begin by looking to my science officers because
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: we are still in the midst of a crisis in
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: our public health infrastructure. I think that Dr. Beverly Crusher
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: is an important person to look to. I think the
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: doctor would make sense as an adjunct. I would certainly
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: look to bringing together a cabinet of leaders who've demonstrated
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: that they can navigate difficult situations. So Catherine Janeway, I
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: think Picard's a little busy in a different timeline right now,
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: but I would of course want to turn to Michael
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: Burnham and invite her to this conversation. And I think that,
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: you know, Captain Sisko is someone who has a thoughtful
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: understanding of how to navigate difficult times, especially times given that,
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: you know, Ron DeSantis has said something about not liking me.
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: I might need his, ambassador behavior to help navigate how
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: we work better with all the states that are surrounding us. Wow.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I wonder, you know, I think Dr. McCoy would be
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: anti-mask on plane, but I think Beverly Crusher might be
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: for it. What do you think?
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: I think both of them would want to take care
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: of the people around them and would mask up for
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: everyone's safety.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Okay. Okay, okay.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I just want to point out this has been seamless.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: This is going exactly as we planned. I know. Exactly
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: as we planned. I have one more Star Trek question.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Do you have any more other questions?
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have one more. I'm not going to call
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: it a real question. A different question.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Different category of question.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you to both. We appreciate that.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: So you've done a lot of fighting for voting rights
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: to protect voting rights. Obviously, there's a lot of new
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: voter suppression laws, including in your state. Can you talk
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: about what your campaign is? and other Georgia organizers are
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: doing to overcome or get around the new voter suppression
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: law and also sort of how that's landing with voters.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: Because I think as you and I have talked about
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: so many times, you know, one of the more pernicious
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: effects of voter suppression is that it makes people feel,
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: why should I even bother trying? Why should I even
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: try to go out and vote? Is it going to
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: be too hard or am I going to get turned
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: away or is my vote going to even count?
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: Well, one of the reasons our campaign is being so
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: aggressive about fundraising during a primary, even though I don't
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: have a technical opponent, although last night's debate would signal
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: that I'm already in the midst of a general election
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: that hasn't started, is that part of our responsibility is
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: to map voter suppression for 2022. We have never seen
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: these new laws in operation on a statewide level. So
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: our campaign is raising the resources we need to be everywhere,
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: to understand what does voter suppression look like in a
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: suburban under-resourced community that is largely of color versus a
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: rural community that is isolated and has been fighting over
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: whether they have one or two precincts. We want to
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: be everywhere and understand it. And we are so proud
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: of the organizations that are on the ground. that are
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: doing the hard work of educating voters. But we also
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: have to map it out so we know how to
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: circumvent the challenges for the November election. And that is
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: why this is going to be one of the most
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: expensive elections in Georgia history. This is not simply about
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: electing me or Reverend Raphael Warnock, one of our extraordinary senators.
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: It's about electing two people who understand at the most
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: visceral level what voter suppression looks like, but who have
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: both demonstrated a very strong commitment to defeating it. Because
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: to your point, we know that voter suppression requires education
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: as an antidote, but the most effective response is voter turnout.
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: It is a lie to say that increased turnout means
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: there is no suppression. That is, again, like saying that
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: because more people are in the water, there are no sharks.
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: The sharks are still there. But if more of us
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: get into the water, if we know where they are,
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: if we can get to the buoys, if we can
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: navigate them, I'm going into a whole Jaws metaphor I
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: didn't intend.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: To lift up.
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: When we do that, we get more people to the
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: other side. And the more people who can get involved
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: and the more we want them to be engaged and enraged,
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: not defeated. This is our state. We have the right
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: to be heard regardless of party, regardless of who we
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: vote for. And my mission is to ensure everyone has
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: the right to vote. And my responsibility as a candidate
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: is to make certain that when they go and vote,
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: they vote for me.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I have a response. Are you ready? It's going to
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: be pretty painful. We're going to need a bigger democracy.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: What I mean?
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I did that to all of us. You set it up.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: I knocked them down. Star Trek. It is my view
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: that Star Trek VI, The Undiscovered Country, is the greatest
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Star Trek film ever made. I want to know what
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: you consider to be the best Star Trek film, and
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I want to ask if you are at least open
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: to considering the possibility that it is Star Trek VI,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: even if it isn't currently your view.
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: I am always open to new ideas and new information,
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: and I have enough respect for you to give you
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: the benefit of every doubt that is flooding my mind
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: in this moment.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Okay. So what is your favorite Star Trek film?
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: Actually, I don't have one. I really love all of
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: the Treks. And it depends on what I'm in the
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: mood for.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: You like the one where they find God? Do you
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: like that one? Where God's just a kind of guy
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: and he's got a hologram going?
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: So you have to understand, I also watch Supernatural. So
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: I am more malleable in my willingness to accept different
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: constructs than many are.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Okay. All right.
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: See how I danced around that?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: That's pretty good. I felt political.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I felt political.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: Stacey Abrams, thank you so much for joining as always.
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: I know the fundraising deadline for this quarter is coming up.
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: So everyone out there, Stacey needs all the help that
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: she can get to go against one of these two bozos.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: So get moving. Right here on earth.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: Absolutely. StaceyAbrams.com, a terrestrial address that you can go to
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: right now.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Take care.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: All right, before we go, we've got a lot of
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: mailbag questions about what we're watching and reading. And since
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: I know everyone's about to quit Twitter because Elon Musk
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: just bought it, we thought we'd offer some non-Twitter content
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: recommendations for you all. But before we do that, do
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: you guys want to talk about our new Twitter overlord
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: for a second?
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm surprised he did it.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I really am.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: I would have bet money that he would get bored
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: and move on.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: He really went through with it. That's a lot of
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: money to buy a problem.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of money and it's like, he's very leveraged.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: You know, he's getting all these loans against his stock.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: He's taken out other loans to fund other businesses.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: This is dicey for him. $ 44 billion.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: The best tweet I saw was just someone that said,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: $ 44 billion for this?
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: From Quinta Brunson. $ 44 billion for this.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, the amount it's going to cost him to
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: service the debt on this deal is going to be massive. Also, like,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: Just go fix climate change, man. We would all love you.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: Just keep focused on the one thing. You're not good
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: at interpersonal stuff. That's what Twitter is. This is about
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: a human-to-human issue.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: That's not your thing. That's a good point.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: That isn't his thing. Not his forte.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Go engineer some stuff.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: Some people are like, he's an idiot or whatever. I'm like, no,
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: he's a genius on certain areas. I don't know about, yeah,
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: interpersonal communication is going to be a strong suit.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: No.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: John and I had a meeting with him once, and
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: we sat behind him in silence for five minutes while
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: he hand-pecked out his emails.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: He literally wouldn't turn his chair around to look at us.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: This is so fucking weird.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I think that's cool.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: And he's like tweeting about Bill Gates being pregnant. Where
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: did that come from?
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: He's a weird dude. He's a weird dude.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Bill Gates is pregnant? Yeah, prepared the lead.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was his tweet yesterday.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: Anyway.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: That's a big deal.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: You know, my stance on this is, I hope he
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: shuts it down. I think, look, I say this as
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: a Twitter addict. We'd still all be better off. We'd
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: all be better off if tomorrow we woke up and
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: there was no Twitter.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: Get on TikTok.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: It's much more fun.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: The fun thing, like, the question is, what will this
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: mean for Gab, Parler, Truth Social, Getter, because a bunch
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: of MAGA chuds put a lot of money into these things,
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: including Mr.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: And there's the big question of whether Trump will get
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: back on soon, whether Alex Jones will be allowed on.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: How free is your speech, Mr.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Musk?
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: The most surprising development today was Donald Trump telling Fox News,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not getting back on if Elon invites me back
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: on because of Truth Social, which he.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Hasn't been using either.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: He hasn't used it once.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't buy it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: You know, we don't really like anyone to own Twitter.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: You know, we don't want it to be public. We
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: don't want to be private. We don't want to be
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: owned by Elon Musk. We didn't like it when it
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: was run by the previous group of libertarians.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, the fact that Twitter had a board and
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: was a public company should have, that's probably like the most,
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: the best you're going to get right there.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: And I do think that there's this balancing act, right? Like,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's good if there's a big social
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: media platform that bullies people off because harassment and misinformation
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: are tolerated. I think that's a terrible thing. At the
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: same time, I do think we pay a political price
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: when the most extreme and vicious and stupid and venal
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: and unhinged members of the MAGA right are kind of
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: hidden from the public sphere because it sanitizes the Republican Party.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: And I think we've all paid a price for Trump
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: and his kind of worst qualities being hidden from public view,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: mostly only manifesting at buffets during weddings at Mar-a-Lago to
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: which he wasn't invited, like we are. we are not,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: he is posing just as much of a threat without
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: being as much of a public nuisance as he once was.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: So I am not, I don't know why anyone thinks
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: that this is good for Republicans. I don't know why
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: these Republicans are applauding themselves. I don't think anybody knows,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: even if there will be a change, who knows? It's
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: just trolling.
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: I also just think, yeah, I mean, I think what
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: it teaches us is like, whether it's a public company
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: with a board, whether it's a private company with an
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: owner like Musk, like, You just can't count on the
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: benevolence of corporations to figure out their moderation, their content
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: moderation policies. If we really want to regulate these platforms
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: because we think that they're public utilities, then we are
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: going to have to pass some regulations or laws to
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: do so. You can't just hope that a corporation is going.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: To do it.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: Elon has not thought deeply on these subjects.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Clearly not.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: I watched that TED Talk he did last week or
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: two weeks ago where he talked about his thoughts on
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: free speech. He is like... The big debates are on
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: the edge cases, buddy, and he has not thought for
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: one second.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: He's like, oh, the algorithm will fix it. No. No,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: it's not. It's not an easy fix. Smart people have
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: failed for a very long time to figure this out.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: It's hard. Even the ones who cared and tried. All right,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: what are you guys watching and reading?
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: I saw Everything Everywhere All at Once over the weekend,
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: and it is fantastic.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I want to see that movie so badly.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Go see it. It is.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: delightful and weird and goes in places you don't expect
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: at all but also very sweet and nice family story
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: oh that's awesome you know we.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Had Adam Scott on Love It or Leave It before
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Severance came out and he's like I'm in this thing
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: called Severance and I said what is it because it's
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: kind of hard to describe and it is hard to
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: describe but everybody needs to watch Severance why it's so
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: fucking good has anybody in this room seen Severance anybody
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Phoebe thanks Elijah it's it's excellent It's excellent. And the
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: finale is like a perfect episode of television.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: We just finished We Crash last night. I love We Crash.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: I love We Crash too.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: It was very fun.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: It's funny because I started We Crash and I remember
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: after the first episode I was like, I don't know,
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: the dropout was really good.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to beat the dropout. But
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: We Crash was a show that.
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: Like every episode got increasingly better and better and better
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: and by the end I loved it.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: I think what We Crash did... was capture a certain
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: tone and type of Silicon Valley bullshit that existed during
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: that little time yeah I love the cult of the
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: founder everything they said was genius we grow we bike
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: like everything that was pitched was they were given these
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: giant checks by SoftBank or whoever and allowed to do anything.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Anne Hathaway was made to play that character I.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Love watching Anne Hathaway I love I love Jared Leto
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: with that nose with that schnoz I love the whole
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: thing it is so entertaining shout out Lee and Drew
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: You know what else was fun that I watched? Oh, yeah.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: That's right, Lee.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: There's a documentary on Abercrombie & Fitch on Netflix right now.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, is that good?
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: It's really good.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: Alison Klayman did it. She did a bunch of great docs.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: Brilliant documentary maker. And it's a great snapshot in time of, like,
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: weird culture that, like, we kind of were all, you know,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: high school era, maybe a little younger, a little older
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: when Abercrombie came up.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Also....
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: It's just an insight into how toxic that company was.
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: I had no idea.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Abercrombie & Fitch. I wonder... I had no idea. I wonder, like, if, like... If, like...
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: If my body image issues were a pizza, I wonder
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: how many slices are Abercrombie & Fitch. You know what
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I mean? I had the same sort of feeling.
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: It's like.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: I think that place just fucked me up. I think
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: that place fucked me up when I was a kid.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Walking through the mall.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Jesus, just these insanely hot guys. It was like, am
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I even welcome here?
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: Love it.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Watching it sort of brought me back in time to
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: being a middle school kid. Who the fuck looks like that?
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Some of the stores had literal naked humans standing out
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: inside them.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: It ruled. Woods Cologne. Yeah, all the cologne. I gotta
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: watch that. The music.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: There's this reality show on Hulu now, Keeping Up with
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: the Kardashians.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: No, boy.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Is that where you are? Are you watching it?
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I'm always watching it.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: We know where it came from. You know what?
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going to watch the whole season. I can't.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: Well, you realize, because I probably watched five episodes total
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: in my life of Kardashians, just because they were like
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: Happening Beyond, right?
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: And you watch it.
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: Now, after all of the other reality TV, and you're like,
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: oh yeah, these are the people that basically invented reality TV.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I get it. This is the source code. This is
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: the source code. This is where it all came from
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: right here. This is at the heart of the pyramid.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be like the real world?
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Well, it's sort of like the modern era.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Some say Jeopardy.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Some say Jeopardy. Any books? Anyone reading anything?
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: By the way, you're getting fact-check hard in the Slack now, John.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: We're no longer keeping up.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Just call the Kardashians. Yeah, I thought about that.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: Troubling.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: I read A Prayer for Owen Meany my senior year
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: of high school. I don't really remember it, but I
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: read that then.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Same. I just read The New Czar by Stephen Lee Myers.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: It's about Putin. It's pretty good.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: Oh, I just, I, I am halfway through because I
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: just interviewed, um, uh, the journalist Peter Pomerantsev for offline
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: who wrote a book called nothing is true and everything
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: is possible about Russia. Like when he, he was there
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: for 10 years in Moscow as a reality TV producer,
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: speaking of reality TV. And it's sort of about Putin's
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: Russia right before 2014, right before the invasion.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: It's an excellent book. You would like it, Tommy. Yeah.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: I'll check it out. I'm catching up on the season
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: of a drag race right now. And the, but it
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: just fit the finale just happened. And, uh, uh, My
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: friend Tyler spoiled it. He just tweeted the winner of
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: the season as it happened.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Tyler, come on. Come on, Tyler.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Ronan's going to be a judge?
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Ronan's going to be a judge on the
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: new All-Stars. I saw that on Twitter. I was like,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: what is going on? That was a secret for so long. Yeah,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Ronan judged. So the next season of All-Stars are all winners.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: You've got just an incredible lineup of queens. And Ronan judged...
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: And it was because Ronan was going to judge. We're like, oh,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: we got to catch up. And that's when we got
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: like super, super into Drag Race because like he was
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: going to be on Drag Race. And we actually didn't
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: even watch. We just like, we started like crushing old seasons.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: You binged recently, right?
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: I remember you saying this.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: We started, and just so that he understood more about it.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: And then we just became just full addicts. That's cool.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: Speaking of addicts, I'm reading Naked Lunch by William S.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Burroughs. Sort of like a... That's a classic. It's a classic.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: When is that from? 59.
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: It's real.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: About a heroin addict running around Tangiers.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Do we think this segment is working?
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Are we still doing the pod?
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: Wow, I was just sort of looking off into it. Anyway,
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: thank you to Stacey Abrams. Thank you to Stacey Abrams.
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: Thank you to Stacey Abrams for joining us today. Thank
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: you to Mark Meadows for all the texts.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you to Elon for supporting our tweets.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Sending everyone into a tizzy today.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: May the algorithm look fondly upon Crooked Media.
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: Thanks to our staff for reminding me that it's the
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: Kardashians and not keeping up with the Kardashians.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Well, you can tell I'm a real connoisseur.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: Who needs to keep up here, John?
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: You.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Bye, everyone.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: The pod is over.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: Our producer is Haley Muse, and Olivia Martinez is our
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerrard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montu. Our
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.