Latest / Just & Joyful with Kristin Carver Smith / The New Fashioned Co: The Rise & Reimagining Work | Just & Joyful S2E2
Transcript
- Kristin Carver Smith: Welcome to another episode of Justin Joyful. I am your host, Kristen Carver Smith, or KCS, as most folk as most folks call me. I am here today, joined by our incredible executive producer, Angelina Burkholder. And today, Angelina and I are gonna tell you, we're gonna finally talk about it. Angelina Danae: We're finally gonna talk about it. Kristin Carver Smith: We have gotten a lot of questions, curiosity about Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: the new fashion co. What happened with the new fashion co? What's going on with the new fashion co? What's people that were at the new fashion co have different jobs now? They got different lives now. What happened? So, today's episode, Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: we're getting into it. We're gonna talk about the rise. of the New Fashioned Co. Angelina before we before we take people on this wild journey that the two of us have been on, anything you want to say to our listeners, our viewers right now? Angelina Danae: I want to say welcome to season two. Hopefully, Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Angelina Danae: if you haven't already, please go back and listen to episode one. Kristen, speaking of like telling you what's up, Kristen is kind of giving like her state of the union, if you will, like where she's at, where the podcast is at, some maybe some hints of what's to come. yeah, and so I'm I'm I'm excited for this season to unfold and for us to get into some of our own stories a little bit more. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah, yeah. and I I feel like this is the part where we say like and subscribe. Like Angelina Danae: Like and subscribe, please. Please. Kristin Carver Smith: and subscribe because I'm pretty sure for the next couple episodes you you're you're not gonna want to miss, you know, when these things drop. let me run it back. Let me take y'all back. People ask, you know, how was the new fashion co-born? How did it come to be? What did it look like? some of you know I have been a publicist for my gosh, it's almost fourteen years now, which is just I feel old saying that, but it's almost almost fourteen years, Angelina. Like Angelina Danae: You've been a teenager. Kristin Carver Smith: It's just yeah, I mean, that is just wild. And you and I have known each other for over ten now. Over ten. It's Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Over a decade, yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: wow. So so professionally, Angelina and I have only, you know, quote unquote been without each other for four years, which is that's a pretty wild thing to think about. So, you know, as as I've shared with you all before, Angelina and I met when we were working at a marketing agency together and When I was at that marketing agency in 2020 or 2017, actually, I had I was really feeling a pull away from marketing and back into PR. But then also I feel like I was like, I had all this marketing knowledge now and was just really seeing this gap of why to PR and marketing, why are those things always so siloed? Why don't they talk to each other? It's comms at the end of the day. We need to work together. We're not It was it felt adversarial. And so in twenty seventeen I left the marketing agency and took a massive leap and decided I'm gonna start my own business and I'm start freelancing and and that work went really well. there were also some times it was really bad. And I think at Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: some point I'm gonna tell you about how bad. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: some of those moments were because I I am confident that some of you are in places in your professional lives in which maybe something that you never thought would happen to you is happening and you're like, what the hell? And I just want you to know that I've seen some things too, even at you know, a very young age. I know again, I'm being incredibly vague and ambiguous, but I promise season two, we gonna we're gonna shed some light on some things. Angelina Danae: We're gonna unpack it. Kristin Carver Smith: So so, you know, fast forward to 2019, and I'm starting to feel like I'm doing a lot of work. I'm a a contractor for another agency at the time and doing a lot of work and I'm starting to feel like I think I'm I I think I'm supposed to be representing and working with underrepresented individuals and personalities and CEOs and organizations. And I'm just really feeling like it's supposed to be bigger and I am feeling that I think I'm supposed to have full time W two employees. And this was a quite the shift because as Angelina, you know, knows, Angelina at that time, you were one of my 1099 contractors. And I had Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yes. Kristin Carver Smith: I think at that point I had 13 1099 contractors that I you know, was funneling work too. and I mean again, just just the most amazing people. And so I'm I'm starting to like really feel like, okay, I think this ten ninety nine thing is not gonna be I think I'm supposed to have like an actual I say an actual company, but p please no, you could have a you could have an actual company and and, you know, employ Or contract, you know, as you see fit and as works for you and your business. And for me, I really felt like I wanted to build something and I wanted the people who worked at that place to feel like they were being compensated for the value that they were creating every day. I I I want I actually wanted to take on that responsibility. Yikes. Angelina Danae: Ha ha ha. Kristin Carver Smith: actually wanted to do that. And I d I don't know. I'm I did I mean sometimes I look back and I'm Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: like, I'm crazy for doing that. But it's like I wanted to do that. And I wanted our business, I wanted this business to be a force for good in the world. And that was the I didn't have a name for it. I mean Angelina, remember like I I I I I didn't really like have a name for it until I think it was March of twenty twenty. And I started like noodling on this idea of like I just I kept coming across old systems, old thinking, like old out old outdated BS, all the things. And I just and my favorite drink was also an old fashioned. It was about the only thing that I was like, this can be old. and I remember like I'm Angelina Danae: Yes. Kristin Carver Smith: staring at this old fashioned and I'm like, yeah, though you know what, the only thing that's old fashioned belongs in our glasses. Huh. And so then I start writing down, like, you know, all these different and I'm like, I think that's this business is going to be based on a cocktail. I don't know, it's going to be inspired Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: by a cocktail. And then I land on the new fashioned. And the new fashion co. And it with this idea, Angelina, remember I was like, the only thing, the only thing old fashioned belongs in our glasses. I'm pretty sure actually it was said better than that, but that this is my version of it right now. Do you remember this? Angelina Danae: Yeah. I do remember this. And I remember when you it was a shower moment for you, I'm pretty sure. Like you came back the next morning, you're like, it came to me in the shower. Yeah. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: As it to be honest, y'all, it typically does. So I don't know what it is about water in the shower, but it is an activator for me. Angelina Danae: Yeah. And so I I remember, yeah, we I mean, I'm pretty sure. You know, we both were still drinking at the time and so it just it was like this fun way of like the play on the old fashioned drink and you know, we're doing new fashion and and and and yeah, it I remember so distinctly having a meeting the next day and you being like, I got it. It's gonna be the new fashion co. And it's this like rebuttal Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Angelina Danae: against the old fashioned. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah, and I think it was like a it felt very much like I was like meeting all this like I'm so sick of the way it's always been done. I'm sick of the way PR has always been done. I'm sick of the way marketing's always been done. I'm sick of the way comms. I'm sick of the way the world keeps doing things. I'm sick of it. You know? And and you know, I I don't regret the name. I don't regret what it was born out of. And I think along the way I've learned quite a bit about The I think there's something dangerous about this or that. and so there was part of me that was experiencing this, like, you know, I was wanting to go so far on the other side from some of the things that I had, you know, experienced or seen in in the business space. And so I'm not sure like moderation was really something that knew how to practice well at the time. But nevertheless, the new fashion co was born. And, you know, in the spirit of old-fashioned, the logo was old-fashioned glass, which was created by an incredible designer who, you know, just was so wonderful. and we had this beautiful, colorful palette. And we were going to, and I say we, I started sharing with Angelina, you know, I I think that this that the new fashion co starts with a course. Because I think at this time too, I was also like looking around and I and I was feeling like I I cannot, and no PR agency can represent everybody. But there's part of me too that was also just feeling like people should really have access to. To this information and and know how and be empowered and equipped with the resources to pitch themselves to like to to own their story. And I think at the time it was like own the newsworthy story that only you have. And it was born out of that belief that all of us have a story and all of us have a newsworthy story at that. And you know, how do we give people what they need to be able to do what we've done for so many people? you know, and have been successful at. And so this the course was born. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. And I think it was also, you know, if we think about the context of that time, it was 2020. We were like deep into the pandemic. Kristin Carver Smith: what happened in 2020? Angelina Danae: You know what I'm saying? Like it like that was the time where everybody was isolating, courses were on the rise, everybody wanted to learn something, do something, you know, connect with people online. All of that made sense. And you had gotten such good feedback from so many people of 100% I need this. I want this. And so we we built the thing that we thought served for served the moment. And it also, I think, you know, it also goes back to you know, when you talk about wanting to wanting to do things differently and you saw all these old fashioned ideals in business and then feeling this pull to represent underrepresented people, it was also about accessibility of, you know, you Kristin Carver Smith: Yes, absolutely. Angelina Danae: not everybody can afford a PR retainer with a firm, but Kristin Carver Smith: Yep. Yep. Angelina Danae: you can pay for a one time course, learn how to do it yourself, or have one of your employees take it and and Kristin Carver Smith: Yep. Yep. Angelina Danae: take on that project. And then you're equipped to go do it yourself. And you don't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars with a firm. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes, yes, yes. And so in saying that, I'm gonna be really honest too. That I also wanted to make so much money. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: I'm gonna be real, like I wanted to make a crap Angelina Danae: Yes. Kristin Carver Smith: ton of money, boatloads. and the course felt like a a path to that. I mean Angelina, do you remember like when I was like, well we can sell it for this? And this is how like these are so many people have already said they wanted it. So this times this equals this. Look how much money this could be. Do you remember this? Angelina Danae: One hundred percent. One hundred Yes. Yes. I remember doing calculations and being like, in a month, we are going to have made a million dollars. Kristin Carver Smith: I mean, it's honestly like it's hilario like it's hilarious and cute to me to look back at that and be like, yeah, for sure, we were gonna like this course was gonna equal this. And I think I I want you to hear me say this is that what one of the reasons why we thought the course would do that is because we did have evidence at the time. We watched other course creators sell the crap. out of their courses. And I I think even if sometimes it does not happen for you, bearing witness to it happening for someone Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: else, I think does like continue to cultivate the like the seed that's in you that's like I I might be Angelina Danae: Hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: Maybe this idea feels feels crazy or it feels impossible or whatever. Watching someone else do the thing, even if it doesn't immediately happen for you, still can feel like that's proof, right? Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think I think it's just, you know, it's one of those things too where you did have we did have pretty concrete evidence that there were at least Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Angelina Danae: a good thirty people were gonna buy this course. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Angelina Danae: So at minimum, we were like we were going to at least break Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: even on the investment that you made into into making this course. Like at least we thought we were gonna do that. You know? And it's so it's like it it's not that we went into this super blind. Like we might have been a little bit, Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah, no, it's good. Angelina Danae: you know, we might have dreamt real big, but Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: we did have there were countless people that were like, my god, I would buy this today if I could. And then the and then the minute Kristin Carver Smith: Yes, yes. Angelina Danae: that the course came out crickets crickets Kristin Carver Smith: Y'all know those people. You're friends with some of them. I know Angelina Danae: Yes. Kristin Carver Smith: y'all got them in your life. You wonder where they're at. They're like, look, I'm coming over. I would and they and sometimes they brag to you. You know what? I if you were my blah blah blah, I would do da-da-da for you. And then da-da-da comes and they ain't there. Angelina Danae: Yep. Yep. The minute that they have to put something into it. Kristin Carver Smith: And so we're getting ready to, you know, we have, I have made this investment into, I've brought a videographer, I've flown the videographer out from, you know, from Nashville to Colorado. I've filmed for an entire day, you know, multiple lessons and all of the stuff for this course. I think we spent, I think we spent 16,000 on just the like the The course itself. That doesn't include marketing, promotion, any of that sort of stuff. And so, you know, the the businesswoman and me was doing the math for how we make back the sixteen thousand and all that sort of stuff. And let me tell you what I didn't see coming. Okay. So, you know. We're we've decided, and by we, at this time, Angelina was not a full time employee at the New Fashion Co. At this time, Angelina's relationship, the two of our relationship is still very much your 1099 contractor. And I'm I'm starting to plant seeds, and I'm like, hey, Angelina, I don't know. I'm feeling like this might be a W 2 company. Would you be interested in maybe being a full time employee? I'm working towards you know, a a full time start date of March first, twenty twenty one. What do you think about that? So I don't know, Angelina, what did you think about that? Angelina Danae: I was nervous and excited at the same time. Kristin Carver Smith: Honest. Angelina Danae: I had just come from a workplace where I had thought it was the first time in my career where I was like, maybe I could settle down for once. Because I up until then I kept I'd take a job and be like, when can I when can I leave? Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: I was just always so unhappy and then I was in this role and I I I was getting to tell stories. And so I was like, Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Angelina Danae: I think I could despite some of the cons, I was like, I think I could settle in here for a little bit. But then I encountered some pretty blatant sexism in relation to Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Angelina Danae: a possible promotion for me and I was like I pushed back on it Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: and they doubled down and I was like, you know what? This is not the place for me. You don't value my work. Kristin Carver Smith: Old fashioned. Angelina Danae: Yes. Yes. And so Kristin Carver Smith: Old fashioned. Yeah. Yeah. Angelina Danae: when I left it just felt like this freedom to Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Angelina Danae: get to design my days, do work do work that I cared about, but it's not, you know, I'm not beholden to Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: a company. And so I was I was really excited by the thought of stability. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: but I was nervous to be beholden again. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: And I think, you know, what won me over is just like, and we talked about this before we hit record today, where I was like, I loved the mission and I love Kristen. Love to still love Kristen. And so I was like, if she's building something, I gotta go. Kristin Carver Smith: Which again, as Angelina said, we chatted a little bit before we, you know, hit record. And I'm excited for us to continue to unpack even what that means, right? Of like to love someone you work with and to love the mission. but do you love the work? Right? Do you love the actual work is one of the questions that you know, we've got to answer for ourselves. And so, so we launch this course. And one of the other reasons that I'm like I'm trying to launch this course is because I'm also like personally I can't take on representing anybody else. I'm already like up to my eyeballs and representing people. And which is a great problem to have, if you like that kind of thing. but so I'm thinking that the course is gonna help divert diversify the income streams just a a bit, but I I'm thinking that it's also gonna help with this like I want to continue to increase my revenue, but that can't be continuing to increase PR retainer work. And you know, so we launched this course, I think 13 people bought it when it launched. 13, y'all. 13. So from the outside end, y'all were probably watching. I mean, and I say y'all, if you've been following me for any sort of time and maybe you know a little bit about you know, she's had clients on these in these types of news outlets and stuff. It's like you probably watching, you're like, Well, she had someone on Good Morning America, 13 courses sold. 13 courses sold. I'm so proud. I mean, I and I am, I am so proud. Angelina Danae: Yes. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: Thirteen people who had info that could empower them to tell their own source. And I still like I still stand by that content today. What What I thought would happen by launching the course, which ended up becoming the company's launch, was not what happened. Instead, by launching a course, all I did was open the doors to now people loved the messaging and people loved what the brand looked like and what it stood for, what it represented so much that they wanted they wanted to be represented by us. So it had the opposite effect of what I intended, and you know, signing a client. Client, signing one client meant that, you know, it ended up being like a sixteen thousand dollar lead gen, basically. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: That's what it was. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it it was really fascinating to see, you know, people were like, my God, this is amazing. Will you do it for me? And it's like the whole point of the course was, girl, you can go do it yourself. And they're like, No, but can you? so it was it was really like I feel like between the time of August and November, we were having having to have really intense conversations about what do we do with this? Like, do we Kristin Carver Smith: Gosh. Yeah. Angelina Danae: respond to this interest Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: and you know for you do you use it as a launching pad for taking people full-time W-2 and serving these Kristin Carver Smith: Yes, yes. Angelina Danae: people who have you know who have expressed interest or do you stick to the course? Kristin Carver Smith: Mm-hmm. Angelina Danae: so it was a that was like a very whirlwind time. There was Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: so much interest, but it was interest in TNF, the New Fashion Co., not the course. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. And I mean what a you know, I think what a testament to we did put a lot of work into what the brand looked and felt like. and we wanted it to feel, you know, serious, elevated, and playful all at the same time. Gosh, I remember and sometimes I cringe at some of this messaging, but I was like, you know, we believe that you can mix business with pleasure and and god, you know, it's like I make it's so cringe now, but I you know, I am like, yeah, you can have fun and you can do meaning like meaningful professional work too. Those two things can't actually coexist. Angelina Danae: Mm. And I again I think like for the time that it was in in COVID, we're all stressed out. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: Isolated, Kristin Carver Smith: Yep. Angelina Danae: we're all working, people are losing their jobs left and right. You Kristin Carver Smith: Yep. Angelina Danae: know, there was, I'm pretty sure that was around the time when there was like an uptick in women starting their own businesses. And so it's just Kristin Carver Smith: Yes, that's right. Angelina Danae: it was like it was now, given the information we have now about our world and and how we're Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: approaching work, it seems maybe that messaging seems dated, but it that was also six years ago, you know, and it it did Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah, yeah. Angelina Danae: serve that time where it was like you can have both. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah, absolutely. Angelina Danae: you can have you can have the work that's really meaningful and you can have a life that you love. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. And I you know, like I said, I I I I look back and I'm like I don't have reg I mean, I don't w I don't regret what we built. I don't regret Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: the direction and the path that that, you know, took took us on. I think as Angelina said, so, you know, from August to November, I was having so many, you know, conversations with Angelina, with a couple of other members of that, you know, would eventually join our new new fashion co team full time. I was having a bunch of sidebar conversations with them to kind of plant the seed of like C, you know, I like consent. I don't know about y'all, but I like consent. And so I had reached out and was like, Would you be interested in this? Would you be I want you to know where I'm taking this? and if you don't, if that's not something you're interested in, that's okay. There's no like, you know, right or wrong answer here, but I want to plan for it if so. And I want to understand what your needs and your salary requirements and you know, all of that sort of stuff would look like, so that I could prep for that accordingly. And A bunch of people were in. So I was like, okay, I guess it's time to like, I'd been chunking away, you know, cash from everything at that time and was just, you know, trying to get to a place where it was like, all right, you know, we could kick off full time WTO on this date. I got so many operational things in place. We had an incredible finance team that we still work with today, you know, who was helping us with payroll, employee handbook development. I mean, y'all, like it's just it it went from I felt like I was running a business before, but then but with like a little bee. And then and then became a business in 2021. And and as Angelina said, what what's you know, something I think is important for you all to know. Is that I had been, and Angelina as well, had been working remote since 2017. So Angelina, I know you had some different you know, jobs and stuff where you were in office and things like that. you know, and and then for some of that freelance work, you would be remote. And for me, I was, you know, as soon as I left the agency, I was remote. And so s you know, for some people, everybody thought. you know, in twenty twenty that when the world shut down, that comms, you know, everybody needed comms at the time. And I remember like watching, you know, people on social media and stuff, and they're like, I'm taking a break, like I'm lit, you know, I'm outside with my family and I'm writing in my d like this is my diary time. And I was like, I don't know what the hell y'all talking about. Because for me, the workload just compounded. It like tripled. It was like all of a sudden again, everybody needed comms because you just literally had to communicate, is your business going to be open? Right? So are these things going to be happening? And then how do you communicate to your to that to your constituents? Borders shut down. So there was the like how do you communicate about what's happening across borders? So there was we the the work that was happening was like again tripled, quadrupled. And so, you know, it felt like the New Fashion Co.'s rise was like meteoric. Now, and I say that and I also know, like it's not like, you know, Forbes was writing about us or we were in fast company or any of those things. But if I were to show you, if I were to like open our books to you, you would see Our revenue goes from like here, and for those of you not watching, I am holding my hand down low and to all of a sudden up here, right? Roll high. And it happened quickly and steeply. And that was really cool. it was also like it was just the demand was crazy, and I felt like we were in a position too where it was like. my gosh, how do we meet all of this demand? Do we need to hire more? We actually, I remember at one point, you know, contracted a recruiting firm to help us hire. We'll say that story for the we'll Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: say that story for another episode. but so we just we grew so fast at a time when things were also so uncertain and we loved each other. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Yeah. And I y you know, and I think about even from the very beginning, not only were we trying to do the work of PR and representation differently, but it was also this thing where we were like, Well, how do we you know, in light of everything that's coming out in twenty twenty with with the pandemic and we're rethinking about the way that we work and you know, then we had the murder of George Floyd and we're thinking about DEI and equity in the workplace. And we were also like really thinking about how do we build how do we build a company that isn't just doing providing services that are new fashion, but that's also like from the ground up, it's new fashion. So the way that we provide for our employees, the way that we structure the workplace internally, Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Angelina Danae: it all of it needs to be new fashioned. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Yes. So we really wanted the new fashion code, the new fashion and new fashion as a verb even to be in the DNA of a company. So, like Angelina said, we were really like trying to reimagine everything about how our workplace could work and how it could actually work equitably for those inside of it and those, you know, Working so hard, like every day, right? Like this is like imp you know, important stuff. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think I think it just we I think we both were like a little bit nervous about or maybe I'm Kristin Carver Smith: Course. Angelina Danae: maybe I'm projecting this onto you, but Kristin Carver Smith: No, girl, I stayed nervous for like I stayed nervous for four years. As a the ball of anxiety. Angelina Danae: yeah, I think we just had we'd both been in really bad workplaces before. Or really unhealthy, I should say. some Kristin Carver Smith: Mm, mhm. Angelina Danae: even toxic. And so it was just, you know, if we're the ones responsible for building this, we don't wanna we know how we feel about the people who built those workplaces that we had to be in. We do Kristin Carver Smith: It yes. Angelina Danae: not wanna be that to somebody else. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: And so it was, yeah, there was just like a lot of intentionality from the jump of how do we do it differently? Kristin Carver Smith: I think there was also like I mean again, I'm, you know, if I'm honest and I can only speak for myself, but I think there was also, you know, I do think that probably somewhere, you know, deep down that I was afraid that we would be those workplaces. And sometimes that like that fear of being the thing ends up you end up being the thing. Even i you know, even if it's not again in the same ways, it's just moving from a place of fear and moving from a place of scarcity or again try like I felt like there was a lot of like at least again from my part of like I was trying so hard to like prove myself, prove the new fashion code. There was a lot of like you know, we had a lot of underdog energy. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, and everything was so hyper online. And so it's, you know, people w like that was what we we depended on online presence for work. And so it was Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Angelina Danae: it was like we gotta we gotta make sure we're showing up the correct way Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: or or the way that we wanna be perceived and and we and we were trying to what's the word? We were trying to control the n the narrative from every aspect. And you just can't. You can't. But that Kristin Carver Smith: No. Angelina Danae: that is that's a hard lesson to learn. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes, yes. So I will say though, Angelina, we did a lot of really cool stuff. I'm not gonna like sp more. We are gonna talk in Angelina Danae: Ha ha Kristin Carver Smith: in our next episode about the fall of the new fashion co. But in the rise, we did a lot of really incredible stuff. We did a lot of things that I'm really proud of. We also really did we we got incredible results for our clients. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Yeah, we sure did. And you know, when I think back on that time after after TNF was sunseted, we'd always talked about, hey, we're we need to get together at some point and process through all of this. And so it feels like it Kristin Carver Smith: Mm-hmm. Angelina Danae: feels so good to have a moment to sit down and talk about like just go back and kind of relive how it got built and then to take a moment, like you said, to just be to give ourselves permission to be proud of the things that we did do right. 'Cause there was a lot that we did right. And there's a lot that Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Mm-hmm. Angelina Danae: we did successfully. And you know, I I think for me there's so much and we can lay it all out. But I think one of the things for me that was the most profound throughout all of T and F was our relationship. And I think there Kristin Carver Smith: Mm, mm. Angelina Danae: was such such a depth of openness and honesty. Like, you know, I Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yep. Angelina Danae: Kristen didn't have to share everything that she shared with me, but she did. There was such deep transparency into the foundation and the infrastructure of the company. And you know, from from that level of just really, really playing and building off of each other for the company. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: And also just, you know, as we were trying to be better humans in this work of holding each other accountable. Like there were so many times that I had a thought or would say something that Kristen would be like, Hey, you know that when you say that, that's coming from like this, this and this. And you might want to unpack. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: And then and then and there was just so much there was never offense taken, there was never anger Kristin Carver Smith: Hmm. Yep. Angelina Danae: or resentment at those things. It was like there was a genuine I felt like we were both so equally matched in our desire to be better humans in light of the new information that we had about the world and equity and representation. And I grew so much as a human while I was at Kristin Carver Smith: Mm, Angelina Danae: TNF. Kristin Carver Smith: hmm. Angelina Danae: Even though like Kristen said, I I was someone who didn't love the work. I loved the mission, Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Angelina Danae: but I didn't love the actual day-to-day work. But Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: I being in that space and being able to be held accountable and be in Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Angelina Danae: such an honest and open relationship, like it that grew me so much as a human. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: Of just you know, when when you mess up or when you say something that's racist or sexist or whatever. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Angelina Danae: there's someone can be lovingly say, you know, and you don't need to you Kristin Carver Smith: Yep. Yep. Angelina Danae: don't need to bow down and and repent and all these things, but that there's like love and accountability and there's and Kristin Carver Smith: Yep. Yep. Angelina Danae: there's permission to like try again and do better. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. No, I I hope for anybody who's listening and watching this right now that, you know, that was one of my greatest hopes of you know, of founding and growing this company is that we would grow as people and that everybody who worked at the New Fashion Co. would leave better than when they came. And so to even hear you say that is just is is such a treat. And I feel the same way is that, you know, There was such an openness among our team and also a curiosity, you know, that it allowed all of us to. And I I mean, I think there's just so many times that I'm like, man, I learned so much. I yeah, it it was just I think it challenged so many of the things too that I thought I was quote unquote better at or or had had on lock or whatever. It's like, no, I still had a lot of room. Like We'll talk about this with Sarah Stanisai on an on an another episode this season. But, you know, building a business, founding a business, growing a business, being an entrepreneur is such a great revealer of all the ish that you have not wanted to touch. And for me, this, you know, the new fashion co touch on things that sometimes I was like, no, uh-uh, we're not going there. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: No. so I don't know. Maybe y'all can, you know, maybe y'all can relate, but so let me pay the picture here. So billings are great, bookings are great, everything's great. It's great, great, great. Results. we got people appearing in front of congress for for good reasons we got people we got people in the you know in the new york times today.com like you know we time like we we got people people are making wild things happening and and and we're also doing stuff like we're we got a four-day work week in place We've got something called reset periods that we've instituted, which is like we want you to be fully unplugged for three weeks anytime out of the year. We all pick and kind of sign up for what our three weeks look like. you know, at the end of the year for the pre for the following year. we got reset periods in place. We're even doing cycle syncing training because we're like, we are gonna figure out how to line our bodies up with the work that we want to do. Cause We need we wanna we wanna know ourselves. We wanna understand how how to, you know, better I mean, I hate to say like sync and alignment, yeah, but it was it was sync and alignment. We were investing in internal comms training. We were doing anti-racism training. Like we just there's so much that we were like digging on. I don't know that I would recommend doing so much excavating or excavating. S, who am I? Excavating. I promise I'm a publicist. excavating personally. At the same time like like Angelina, if I'm honest, there's so much building. I felt like we like when I look back, I'm like with how again quickly our ascent was. And I probably like if I go back, I'm like, I should have throttled us a bit. I should have like, no, no, no. Kit take it slower. You know, no, no, we we're not gonna be able to represent you right now 'cause we we busy representing these few of people over here and we wanna we are not gonna try to build a home in two months and and you know, pass inspections, but barely. You know. I feel like we were building so much so quickly all at one time. And I I think That's where we're gonna leave this episode. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, because it it's so much went well. And there was so much interest and there was so much development on the team. but why did we build it that way? What was what was driving Kristin Carver Smith: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Angelina Danae: it? Was it a joy for the work or was it scarcity? A fear was it fear? Was it we don't know, except we do know. Kristin Carver Smith: Was it people pleasing? Angelina Danae: Was it people pleasing? Kristin Carver Smith: Things to ponder. And I'm gonna leave you with this. I'm I'm curious where you might see yourself inside this story. Like I'm really curious for our listeners. Like, I mean, I don't know, maybe you have a part of your journey that feels similar. You know, maybe there's something about listening to this that feels parallel with maybe whatever you're navigating right now or parallel to a previous season that you've had. maybe something is brushing up against you right now as you listen to this. there is I'm really proud of our rise. and we're gonna really be honest with you about the fall, the next episode. So with that, we will catch you on the next episode of Justin Joyful. And we're gonna go there. It's it was it was the new fashion co has been a roller coaster and I think we're we're almost done with the you know crick creeping up Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: Creeping up the tracks part of it. We're inching up, we're inching up, inching up. It's like, okay, okay, okay. So Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: Yep, it's about to get real. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. So, you know, it it feels good to be to be in this space to talk about this and to go back and to not be scared of it, not to not be scared of revisiting it, and to do it with just so much compassion. I think Kristin Carver Smith: Mm-hmm. Angelina Danae: before we close this episode, I would love for you to share what you and I were talking about, about how there's no room for shame or judgment as we go on this journey. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. So you know, I was telling Angelina that I I'm at a Just personal, you know, kind of reflective period too, as I even shared with you all in episode one of season two. and as I have been reflecting, I'm really mindful that shame is not helpful and that I am not interested in tracing or going back and and reliving shame, bringing shame along. And the same with judgment. I, you know, I welcome curiosity. I welcome grief. I welcome compassion. I welcome anger. I welcome confusion. You know, accountability even, but I am not interested in bringing shame along because I don't think it is productive. And I, you know, sometimes I've thought about this with you know, humans and animals and is that, you know, humans can pay for the same mistake over and over and over again. And I think about, you know, perhaps when, you know, an an an animal has a a little a little boo-boo moment. And I'm like, I've you know, I've wondered. Like I'm like, I'm pretty sure the animal isn't paying for their mistake over and over and o they're not beating themselves up over and over and over again. again. And and so, you know, I do not I'm not interested in us continuing to unpack this and bringing that sense of shame or that feeling of shame with us throughout this journey. And I I hope the same for you as you're watching and you're listening that as you might feel, you know, sort of spurred to trace some things back for yourself that shame is not welcome and that It's not it's not gonna be helpful for us living a just and joyful life. All right, we will see you back here next time to talk about the fall of the new fashion co. And if you want to be the first to listen to this, one you need to visit jasinjoyful.com and make sure that you sign up for our newsletter. And you're also going to need to like and subscribe, or else you'll be behind, boo. And we do not want that for you. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. We don't want you to miss out. Kristin Carver Smith: Mm-mm. All right. Thank you, thank you, thank you. We look forward to seeing you next time.