Latest / Heroes Behind the Badge / Barry Black — Building the Case Against Timothy McVeigh | Part 2

Transcript

Barry Black — Building the Case Against Timothy McVeigh | Part 2 · Heroes Behind the Badge

0:00
Trooper Charlie Hanger had stopped and arrested McVeigh
0:04
about 90 minutes after the
0:05
bombing about 90 miles north of town.
0:16
A truck axle gave them a serial number.
0:18
The serial number gave them a rental counter in
0:21
Junction City, Kansas and a name
0:23
that turned out to be an alias.
0:25
What it did not give them was a case.
0:27
That took nearly 900
0:28
investigators and more than 15,000 leads.
0:31
I understand from my research that there were 28,000
0:35
interviews that you uncovered a billion pieces of
0:39
information related to this case.
0:41
There were literally hundreds of
0:43
FBI agents assigned to the case.
0:46
And yet, McVeigh and Nichols, you had pretty much solved
0:50
the case within a couple days.
0:53
McVeigh's arrested 90 minutes
0:55
after the bombing for other reasons.
0:58
And I'd like you to describe his arrest and how all that
1:01
came about, how you ended up tying him into the bombing,
1:05
and then how you ended up finding Nichols.
1:07
And there were some other accomplices.
1:09
But I'm pretty amazed that you all were able to pretty
1:13
much solve the case within a couple days.
1:17
Well, as you know, Craig, having somebody arrested is one
1:20
thing and then proving it beyond the reasonable doubt in
1:23
federal court is a pretty high bar.
1:26
But the way everybody worked together
1:30
here is known as the Oklahoma Standard.
1:32
There weren't really any jurisdictional issues.
1:37
As you said, 168 of our people had been killed.
1:40
Everybody was here to help.
1:43
And we had that CVIN, that rear end differential housing
1:49
I mentioned earlier, came back to Ryder Rental.
1:52
Well, Ryder said that that was supposed to belong to a
1:55
place in Junction City, Kansas called Elliott's Body Shop.
1:59
So we flooded Elliott's Body
2:00
Shop, interviewed Eldon Elliott.
2:02
And of course, the first
2:03
question is who rented this truck?
2:05
He said it was a guy named
2:06
Robert Kling, K-L-I-N-G, Robert Kling.
2:09
Okay, well, what does he look like?
2:11
Well, we didn't have digital imagery
2:13
then, so we had a sketch artist brought in.
2:15
And that's where you end up with the
2:17
sketches of John Doe 1 and John Doe 2.
2:20
We published those with our friends
2:22
in the media, got over 15,000 leads.
2:28
Which lead do you cover?
2:29
Well, you have to cover them all.
2:31
So during the course, we're using those sketches,
2:35
saturated this little town in Junction City.
2:37
And a lady named Leah McGowan at the Dreamland Motel, she
2:42
said, "Hey, I recognize John Doe number one."
2:45
He rented room number 25 and signed
2:48
in under the name of Timothy McVeigh.
2:50
Well, he gave an address in Michigan.
2:54
So a lot of things have to happen at once, right?
2:57
It's getting information, sorting information,
3:02
but you have to pursue it all.
3:04
That's why these are manpower intensive.
3:05
We expended a million, 8,000 man hours in this case.
3:09
This was an unbelievable investigation.
3:12
But
3:13
what we found when we had the name McVeigh, we also
3:17
interviewed all of the restaurants and hotels, motels.
3:20
There was a Chinese restaurant that said, "Yep, we
3:23
delivered Moo Goo Guy Pan to room number 25."
3:27
And there was only one person
3:28
there and his name was Robert Kling.
3:31
Well, now we had McVeigh and
3:32
Kling ostensibly as the same person.
3:36
But didn't know if either of those
3:37
names were accurate or both aliases.
3:40
So we did an offline NCIC search, which you guys are
3:43
familiar with and found that Trooper Charlie Hanger had
3:47
stopped and arrested McVeigh about 90 minutes after the
3:51
bombing, about 90 miles north of town, for not having a
3:54
license plate on an old yellow Mercury.
3:58
Well, that old yellow Mercury was the getaway car that
4:01
they had delivered on Easter Sunday.
4:02
I mentioned previously.
4:04
He was also carrying a concealed weapon, which at that
4:06
time in Oklahoma was illegal.
4:08
So Charlie Hanger, the trooper, puts him in the jail up
4:13
in Perry County and he's about to bond out because these
4:17
are relatively minor charges.
4:19
Excuse me.
4:20
But when we found that Charlie had arrested Timothy
4:24
McVeigh, we put a federal hold on him.
4:27
It was the overnight hours, April 20, April 21.
4:31
I had the air assets at the time.
4:32
We jumped on the helicopter, flew up to the highway where
4:36
the car still was, landed there.
4:38
I seized the car.
4:40
My partner, Jim Norman and others seized McVeigh.
4:44
He still gets an initial appearance.
4:47
This is America.
4:48
You're entitled to an initial
4:50
appearance and an arraignment.
4:51
But the courthouse had been damaged.
4:52
So I was still on the SWAT team.
4:54
We took him down to Tinker Air Force Base where a
4:57
magistrate judge, Ronald Hallen, great guy.
5:00
He's since passed away.
5:02
Decided we had enough evidence to hold McVeigh.
5:05
So Jim and I and others escorted
5:07
him down to federal prison in El Reno.
5:11
We had already interviewed other people at that Decker,
5:15
Michigan address that was on the driver's license.
5:18
It turned out to be the farm of Terry and James Nichols.
5:22
Terry Nichols had seen the arrest of McVeigh, surrendered
5:25
himself at three o'clock the next day.
5:27
So that's how we came to have them
5:29
both in federal custody so quickly.
5:31
But then all the case has to start.
5:33
We have the suspects.
5:34
Now you have to prove it.
5:36
And that's where these million man hours comes in.
5:40
I seem to recall that
5:42
when Charlie Hanger arrested McVeigh for not having the
5:45
license plate on his car, that
5:47
was the reason for the initial stop.
5:49
And then finding the concealed weapon, which brought the
5:54
charges, that during that arrest, McVeigh secreted a
6:00
business card in the backseat of that
6:03
patrol vehicle that eventually was discovered.
6:07
And that was a key piece of evidence.
6:08
Do you recall that?
6:10
Sure.
6:10
Yeah, one of many key pieces of evidence.
6:13
So in the Mercury itself, when our ERT search did, were
6:19
just a plethora of documents related to the Turner
6:21
Diaries and some other documents with McVeigh's handwritten
6:25
notes that really showed intent.
6:28
But the business card you're describing was tucked down
6:33
between the seats of Charlie Hanger's unit.
6:37
It was a business card that
6:38
said, "Need more TNT at $5 a stick."
6:41
As I recall it had McVeigh's fingerprint on it.
6:45
That's incredible.
6:46
And to talk about the relationship between McVeigh and
6:50
Nichols, and then there was
6:51
another accomplice, Michael Fortier.
6:54
Yeah.
6:55
Did these guys know each other?
6:56
What was their background?
6:58
Right.
6:58
So each was in the Army.
7:01
They served at Fort Benning, Georgia.
7:05
Pardon me.
7:05
Then their unit was moved to Fort Riley, Kansas.
7:08
So they all went up there together.
7:10
McVeigh had a penchant for this
7:12
book called the Turner Diaries.
7:13
It's a screed about overthrowing the government that
7:17
starts with a large vehicle born IED destroying FBI
7:21
headquarters to start this revolution.
7:24
But
7:25
Fortier was actually recruited to help in this attack,
7:28
but kind of changed his mind.
7:30
Nichols was a little more of a passive personality.
7:35
He was one of the oldest ones in that unit.
7:37
But when they got out, McVeigh tried to make his way to the
7:40
Special Forces, could not make the cut
7:42
there, and then was just really itinerant.
7:45
He would live between
7:47
Nichols' home and the Fortier's home.
7:49
They would follow the gun show circuits, just sort of a
7:52
different type of existence.
7:54
But
7:56
the plan for the bombing really
7:59
emerged very shortly after the fire at Waco.
8:03
By
8:04
the summer of 94, they were beginning to accumulate the
8:09
materials needed for the bomb.
8:13
Right.
8:13
And the date, I think you just discussed it earlier, but
8:16
I just wanted to emphasize that April 19th, that was an
8:20
important date for McVeigh and
8:22
Nichols to actually do the bombing.
8:25
Well, yes.
8:25
April 19th was the anniversary, the second anniversary of
8:29
the fire at Waco, which, as I mentioned earlier, was sort
8:32
of the final straw for McVeigh.
8:35
It was also the 220th anniversary of the shot heard
8:39
around the world, the
8:41
beginning of the American Revolution.
8:43
And that date was important enough to McVeigh where he used
8:47
that as his false date of birth on that Robert Kling ID
8:50
that was used to rent the truck.
8:52
I'm curious.
8:54
168 people died, all these
8:57
others injured, 19 children killed.
9:01
Did McVeigh, Nichols, Fortier, ever express any sense of
9:06
remorse, any sense of regret?
9:08
No.
9:11
Now, when I was sitting with him at Judge Howland's
9:17
initial appearance, yeah, it was a very small room.
9:20
It was a makeshift courtroom.
9:21
And he just sat there, emotionless, said nothing.
9:26
When my partner, Jim Norman, first spoke with him while
9:30
he was still at the Perry County Jail,
9:32
Jim said, "I guess you know why we're here."
9:34
And he said, "I guess it's about the bombing."
9:36
And that's really about all he said.
9:38
Really?
9:39
So you never had any personal
9:41
interactions with him at all or any
9:44
time when you were with him to
9:46
get to know him a little bit?
9:48
Oh, no.
9:49
We never, no, I wouldn't say I got to know him.
9:52
Right.
9:53
I was, well, we were, you know, I was on the SWAT team.
9:56
We took him into the courtroom, was with him there in the
9:59
courtroom, and then part of this
10:03
escort to take him down to prison.
10:05
Nichols, on the other hand,
10:08
as Craig mentioned, there were eight deaths accounted for
10:12
in the federal indictment, but 168 people had died.
10:15
So even after the federal conviction, which landed Terry
10:19
Nichols in a prison for the rest of his life, the state
10:22
of Oklahoma tried him for murder, which is a state crime.
10:26
I did testify in some of those proceedings and had more
10:28
interaction with Terry Nichols.
10:31
All right.
10:31
I did, okay, so McVeigh gets the death penalty, and he's
10:35
ultimately executed several years later.
10:39
Nichols gets life in prison
10:42
without the possibility of parole.
10:44
I'm confused as to why he
10:46
didn't also get the death penalty.
10:48
And then Michael Fortier, the other co-conspirator, gets
10:52
12 years prison sentence, seemingly very lenient sentence
10:58
given the gravity of the crime.
11:00
Why the discrepancy in the sentencing?
11:03
Well, Craig, as you know, our job in law enforcement is
11:06
to gather the evidence, right?
11:08
So we gathered the evidence, presented it.
11:12
DOJ, the Department of Justice brought in special
11:15
prosecutors to augment the US Attorney's Office here in
11:18
Oklahoma City, and there were some decisions made.
11:23
So the case we made against
11:26
Nichols and McVeigh was very strong.
11:29
We had
11:31
phone records, the financial
11:32
records, prints, witness IDs.
11:35
It was a very strong case, but
11:36
Fortier sort of tied it all together.
11:40
As I mentioned, McVeigh lived
11:43
with Fortier and his wife, Lori.
11:46
Lori said she saw him
11:49
basically create that Robert Kling ID.
11:52
They said he sat in their kitchen and used soup cans to
11:56
show how he was going to array the
11:57
barrels of explosives in the back of the truck.
12:00
They had done that recon, explained how they had acquired
12:04
the funds to buy the ammonium nitrate.
12:07
So they were offered
12:10
a deal, basically, that Lori would not be prosecuted.
12:14
Michael Fortier would have to plead to a series of
12:17
felonies, resulting in 12 years.
12:19
He did 10 of those, as I recall, and now he's basically
12:22
in the federal protection, witness protection program.
12:27
Nichols and McVeigh were tried separately.
12:30
McVeigh was the driver, literally, of this case.
12:36
But we go with what the jury says.
12:39
The jury found Terry Nichols to
12:42
be less culpable than McVeigh.
12:46
Because of that decision, you see
12:48
the disparity in the sentencing.
12:53
Well, I read somewhere where McVeigh at one point, not
12:59
only did he look at different options for buildings to
13:03
bomb, but he thought about maybe
13:05
a personal assassination campaign.
13:09
And some of his targets that he was considering anyway
13:12
was the attorney general in the United States at the
13:15
time, Janet Reno, and others.
13:18
Why did he go from that
13:20
assassination campaign to the bombing?
13:24
I'm probably not the best person to ask
13:26
about that avenue of the investigation.
13:28
Mine was more of the IED, the explosive part.
13:32
I recall that as having being a potential option, but I
13:36
really don't have any details on that of it.
13:38
And that was curious to me.
13:40
I'd never really heard that before.
13:43
Really, the last question I had on my mind was,
13:48
how
13:49
much more difficult would it be today to do an act of
13:54
terrorism of the magnitude that they did?
13:58
Let me give you an example.
13:59
I had an office for many years directly across the street
14:03
from FBI headquarters in Washington, DC.
14:07
There was really very little separating the roadway to
14:13
the FBI headquarters building.
14:16
In the back of my mind, I'm always thinking, what are the
14:20
odds of somebody like Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols,
14:26
pulling a Ryder truck illegally for a few moments,
14:30
getting out, and all of a sudden a
14:32
bomb goes off at FBI headquarters?
14:35
I'm just wondering, how easy is it to do that today
14:39
versus in 1995 when they did it in Oklahoma City?
14:43
Well, a great question.
14:45
Access is an issue.
14:47
People like to be able to park
14:49
and walk right into the building.
14:52
Now, we learn from these things.
14:54
So one thing we learned from the
14:57
Oklahoma City bombing is standoff.
15:00
Distance is your friend when it comes down to explosives.
15:03
That's why you have the large
15:06
parking bollards around the capital region.
15:09
They're the giant concrete flower planters.
15:13
They're going to be exceptionally
15:14
difficult to move, even with a heavy vehicle.
15:17
So distance has been implemented as a security measure,
15:21
and technology helps us as well.
15:25
Digital imagery.
15:26
There's some other technical innovations where we can
15:30
detect explosives, different
15:31
types of threats a little farther out.
15:35
So the threats evolve, the countermeasures evolve, but
15:39
the targets have been hardened.
15:42
We had another case here in Oklahoma City using an odd
15:45
type of rucksod-based explosive.
15:48
Because our intelligence had said, since transportation
15:51
nodes were now hardened, terrorists were going to shift
15:54
to shopping malls and concerts and ball games.
15:57
Well, this event happened at a ball
15:58
game, so it kind of fit our intel model.
16:01
It's a cat and mouse game.
16:03
We adapt to the threat.
16:06
The bad guys see what our countermeasures are and then
16:10
change their game plan, and we have to catch up.
16:12
So that's the eternal part of this.
16:16
So Barry, I want to go back to you,
16:19
kind of more on a personal level.
16:21
So earlier you mentioned this was during the time of the
16:26
pager and the beepers, right?
16:28
There were no cell phones.
16:29
And you mentioned that your wife worked in that building,
16:34
and you responded and arrived.
16:38
So it was difficult to communicate.
16:39
It wasn't like today.
16:41
And you didn't know that she had
16:42
left the building, fortunately.
16:46
How long did it take before you really knew that?
16:49
It was about 10:30.
16:51
So almost 90 minutes.
16:54
The few cell phones that did exist, they were all jammed,
16:58
obviously, because everybody
16:59
was using the entire bandwidth.
17:01
But she had the foresight to
17:03
page me back into my own voicemail.
17:06
Our office was at a different building.
17:08
And so eventually my pager went off, said to call my own
17:11
voicemail call, they got the message from her.
17:14
She said that she and her officers had been relocated to
17:18
their secondary safety location.
17:20
She was okay.
17:22
But yeah, that was a pretty long ninety minutes.
17:24
Now you mentioned that you had the 30
17:29
people that worked for you, you were handing out
17:31
paychecks to them on a regular basis.
17:35
And they all died.
17:36
And then we had the eight
17:38
federal agents that died as well.
17:40
And maybe many of those other
17:42
folks you might have known as well.
17:45
How many of those funerals did you have to go to?
17:48
Well, the funerals were contemporaneous with the case,
17:52
you know, I was working seven days a week, 12, 14 hours a
17:56
day, that that was my life for about two years.
18:02
And as you know, you guys have been in this business.
18:06
The job itself is difficult on a family.
18:09
But when you have a major event like this, as I said,
18:11
there were only two FBI bomb
18:13
technicians in the case or in the state.
18:15
And this was a FBI case.
18:17
Other resources were brought in.
18:19
But this was an attack in our backyard.
18:23
It's not like you could say, I'm going on vacation, I'm
18:25
going to take some time off.
18:27
That since over time, begin to
18:30
diminish as additional resources came.
18:33
But
18:35
yeah, it was almost all consuming that this about all I
18:41
did for a significant period of time.
18:43
And I did nothing special. Everybody was that way.
18:48
It was all hands on deck.
18:49
And everybody was totally dedicated to seeing justice.
18:52
You know that that degree of death, destruction and
18:56
despair, all at the same time on
18:59
that level, and those many numbers,
19:02
you know, and I asked you about the
19:03
funerals, I just remember going to funerals.
19:05
And that oftentimes that just sucks life out of you.
19:09
And, you know, this was this was a pretty emotionally
19:15
tragic time for a lot of people.
19:18
Talk to us about how that's more
19:22
than likely forever changed your life.
19:26
Well, it less than more than
19:29
likely, it definitely has, you know,
19:32
it's a seminal event in American history.
19:35
And I still give presentations
19:37
down at the National Bombing Memorial.
19:39
And there's one room that I don't even go in.
19:42
It's just it's too emotional.
19:44
You know, the tour groups, the military sends officer
19:48
candidates there, the Thunder
19:50
sends new players, NBA players there,
19:54
both colleges send their new
19:55
football recruits there, it's history.
19:58
And I'm honored to be a small
20:00
part of ushering people through.
20:03
But yeah, there's some parts of that I don't go to still.
20:07
I've been to the 9-11 Memorial a
20:10
couple of times and it's very reminiscent.
20:13
You know, we lost Lenny Hatton, the bureau did.
20:16
And I'll say to more people have died from 9-11 related
20:22
illnesses than were killed in the day of the attack.
20:26
It was about eight years after my 9-11 deployment to
20:29
Ground Zero, I was diagnosed with an
20:31
exceptionally rare form of cancer.
20:34
I thank God they got it all out.
20:35
It was like a six hour surgery.
20:37
But I have friends that didn't survive that.
20:40
So these events take a toll.
20:42
Our military partners, law enforcement partners see
20:46
things that most people don't.
20:49
And I teach at a university now.
20:51
And I tell my students, you have to have some way to deal
20:53
with that because you're not
20:54
you're not going to forget it.
20:56
It's just how you deal with it.
20:58
So Barry highlights and lowlights of your career, what
21:02
would you say is the top and the bottom?
21:05
Well, highlight would have to
21:06
be the people I got to work with.
21:09
You asked about that strange path I had, I ended up being
21:13
a master instructor and a
21:14
master bomb tech for the bureau.
21:16
So I was a trainer for NATO.
21:19
I got to travel the world working with our special
21:22
forces, friendly nations, special forces, kind of quasi
21:27
commandos as terrorism became more prevalent.
21:30
I worked on every continent, but Antarctica
21:34
interacted with ambassadors and some pretty high level
21:38
country leaders in different parts of the world.
21:40
Loved every second of that.
21:43
And everybody in this job is sort of similar.
21:46
So when we had downtime, if whatever country we were in,
21:50
they would try to showcase their highlights.
21:52
So I would dive with the
21:54
Australian Navy in the Great Barrier Reef.
21:58
We chartered a plane to go
22:00
see the Mount Everest in Nepal.
22:03
So I got to see and do things
22:05
I never would have imagined.
22:06
But I would say the highlight is the people downside are
22:12
the loss of life,
22:15
the magnitude, particularly when it's just so many people
22:18
lost at once, 9-11, the bombing here.
22:24
Yeah, and the impact it has on
22:26
the survivors and their families.
22:28
We have a memorial here on the
22:31
anniversary of every bombing and people get together.
22:33
It's still just a very sad event.
22:36
No, Barry, we talk a lot on this show about the mental
22:40
health of our officers and the fact that the average law
22:45
enforcement officer deals with maybe 400
22:47
to 600 traumatic events in their career.
22:52
The average person may be two to
22:54
three traumatic events in their lifetime.
22:57
You've just described what you've
22:59
been through two years of nonstop work.
23:03
You were there within minutes after the bombing.
23:06
You saw the destruction.
23:08
You saw the bodies and then
23:10
the people that died, et cetera.
23:12
I'm just curious what kind of counseling, what kind of
23:16
mental health support and wellness support did you
23:19
receive and all the other people that were working that
23:22
site immediately after and
23:25
during the months that followed?
23:27
That's a great question.
23:28
I think
23:31
the realization that that's a critical part of things
23:34
really hadn't taken hold in 1995.
23:39
I remember there being counselors, but I remember
23:42
thinking, who's got time for that?
23:44
There's stuff to do.
23:47
I don't recall, even after
23:52
Waco, one of the team leaders came in
23:54
and said, "Hey, there's counselors."
23:55
Now, this is 93.
23:57
He said, "Hey, there are counselors, but if you need a
23:59
counselor after something like this,
24:00
you're in the wrong kind of business."
24:02
The
24:04
perception of counseling has changed a lot.
24:07
You have to have somebody to talk to.
24:09
Your family has to be supportive.
24:11
I tell my students now, it's friends, faith, family.
24:15
As you all know, suicide is high in
24:18
this line of work and our military.
24:21
The stress and pressure, you
24:22
have to have some kind of relief.
24:23
I say faith, family, friends,
24:26
something that's not detrimental.
24:28
Alcohol doesn't work.
24:29
Drugs don't work.
24:32
Domestic violence goes up.
24:33
That doesn't work.
24:34
You have to have more positive way.
24:37
For sure.
24:38
I'm glad you're doing well today because you're right.
24:41
Back in 1995, we didn't appreciate the value of mandatory
24:46
counseling after traumatic
24:48
events like this for law enforcement.
24:49
We've come a long way, thankfully.
24:52
Most importantly, I think this interview has shown a
24:56
spotlight on what our officers are willing to do to solve
25:01
cases, to bring justice, to try to make amends for
25:08
tragedies that have occurred on our streets of America.
25:13
You're quite the hero behind the badge, Barry.
25:16
I'm glad we were able to feature you and talk about what
25:19
you went through at Oklahoma City.
25:22
As Bill's pointed out, your entire career.
25:25
Thank you, sir.
25:26
Appreciate what you've done for us.
25:28
Oh, Craig, I appreciate your kind words, but I can
25:32
honestly say I didn't do anything special.
25:34
There were nearly 900 people working this investigation.
25:38
Things like this occur every day throughout this country.
25:43
The men and women who do this job are the heroes for sure.
25:47
In closing, Barry, I've got one last question.
25:53
What do you want Americans to remember about that day?
25:58
It is one of the most momentous, one of the biggest
26:01
catastrophes in the history of the United States.
26:05
You were there.
26:06
What would you like for
26:07
Americans to remember about that day?
26:10
Dennis, I would say that violence doesn't work.
26:14
That this idea to violently overthrow the government
26:17
because you don't like what it does just doesn't work.
26:20
And in this environment we have now, this divisive
26:23
environment, there are ways to bring about change that
26:27
don't involve building a 5,000
26:30
pound bomb and killing 168 people.
26:33
For sure.
26:34
So, yeah, this just doesn't it's immediately effective
26:38
perhaps, but it doesn't bring about the change.
26:41
It won't. If anything, it strengthens the resolve of
26:44
people that are moving the other direction.
26:48
A good message.
26:49
And thank
26:51
you, Barry Black, for your service.
26:53
I mean, again, as Craig said, one of the purposes of
26:57
Heroes Behind the Badge, this
26:58
podcast, is to highlight people like you.
27:01
You were instrumental in solving one of
27:05
the biggest cases in the history of the U.S.
27:08
And I know you say you were just
27:09
doing your job, but you know what?
27:11
Thank God you were doing your job.
27:13
Well, thank you very much.
27:14
Doing your job is what made things happen.
27:18
So thanks for being our guest today.
27:20
So, Barry, there is so much to talk about when we talk
27:25
about the Oklahoma City bombing.
27:26
And we've only touched the tip of the
27:28
iceberg today during this interview.
27:31
But I know you've written a book about
27:33
this whole case and your involvement.
27:35
I'd love for you to tell our audience what the title of
27:39
the book is, where they can get it.
27:40
And if you have a copy, hold it up.
27:43
Great, Craig.
27:44
Well, yeah, this is the book.
27:46
It's called Hazardous Devices, Memoir of an FBI Bomb
27:49
Technician, Accountant, and Sniper.
27:52
It's sort of the entire career of, as we were discussing
27:55
earlier, how an accountant ends up as a master bomb
27:58
technician in Nepal or some of these crazy places.
28:02
It's available on Amazon or Barnes
28:03
& Noble or wherever you buy books.
28:05
Thank you very much.
28:07
In closing, I want to remind our audience, Heroes Behind
28:11
the Badge is sponsored by Citizens Behind the Badge.
28:15
Citizens Behind the Badge is the leading organization in
28:19
support of the men and women of law enforcement.
28:23
You can get involved at citizensbehindthebadge.org.
28:27
Citizens Behind the Badge.org.
28:29
Not only can you get on our website, and we have all
28:32
kinds of things there for you to see,
28:34
but you can follow and track podcasts.
28:37
This podcast, there's a button
28:38
on the website for this podcast.
28:41
You'll know exactly when you
28:42
subscribe and follow and like us.
28:44
You'll know exactly when the next episode is coming.
28:48
And if you liked anything that Barry had to say today
28:52
about his service, hit like, hit follow, hit subscribe.
28:57
Better yet, make a comment.
28:59
Make a comment on something Barry said.
29:01
This was a very deep insight into one of the most
29:05
catastrophic situations we have ever had.
29:08
So hope you enjoyed listening to it.
29:10
Hope you learned as well.
29:12
So this is all for this
29:14
episode of Heroes Behind the Badge.
29:16
We will see you next time.
29:18
Tune in to Heroes Behind the Badge.
29:20
(Music)