Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Q&A: Sibling Rivalry | Ep. 72

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Q&A: Sibling Rivalry | Ep. 72 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  Cheryl: Welcome to the Parenting Podcast.
• 0:08
  Cheryl: I'm your host, Cheryl Lane.
• 0:10
  Cheryl: Today our team has a very honest conversation.
• 0:14
  Cheryl: About, I think one of the least favorite parts of parenting sibling rivalry in answer to a listener's question, we share about our own experiences and reality, but instead of contriving a quick fix, Ellen Chrisie and I talk about how we can use the conflict.
• 0:35
  Cheryl: To mature and develop our children, preparing them for life and healthy relationships.
• 0:48
  Cheryl: Oh, I'm looking forward to this because You know, we've been doing some series on topics recently, and I'm looking forward to opening up the mail bag and answering some of the questions that our listeners have sent in.
• 1:00
  Cheryl: yeah,
• 1:00
  Christie: like we've done.
• 1:01
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:01
  Christie: I always love these little variety
• 1:03
  Cheryl: you know, I have pages here of questions that our listeners have sent to us.
• 1:08
  Cheryl: Um, let's look here.
• 1:10
  Cheryl: All right, so this is a hot topic.
• 1:12
  Cheryl: It was something I was interested in all of my time of raising my children.
• 1:17
  Cheryl: Sibling rivalry.
• 1:19
  Cheryl: Oh, oh fun.
• 1:21
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 1:22
  Cheryl: One listener texted to ask What do you do about an older sibling that can't seem to keep from criticizing any time their younger sibling creates something, whether it be a drawing or a story, or even a plot of a make believe game that the younger child is playing.
• 1:39
  Cheryl: The younger sibling gets very frustrated and I worry about it having lasting impacts on their relationship.
• 1:44
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:45
  Cheryl: So is this normal sibling stuff?
• 1:48
  Cheryl: that I just shouldn't even worry about.
• 1:51
  Cheryl: Well,
• 1:51
  Ellen: some great many books throughout time have been written specifically about sibling rivalry.
• 1:57
  Ellen: Yes.
• 1:57
  Ellen: And you know, battles between brothers and all.
• 2:01
  Ellen: So I mean it
• 2:02
  Cheryl: Well, the Bible starts out with very good old
• 2:06
  Ellen: question.
• 2:06
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 2:07
  Ellen: That was the first conflict was Uhhuh two brothers over something really dumb.
• 2:11
  Ellen: Right.
• 2:12
  Ellen: You know, and.
• 2:13
  Ellen: I don't know it, I think we're just inherently competitive people on different levels and some more than others.
• 2:21
  Cheryl: And that's, and and so what we're saying is yes, yes.
• 2:25
  Cheryl: Sibling conflict, sibling rivalry, Uhhuh is normal.
• 2:29
  Cheryl: Right.
• 2:29
  Cheryl: And.
• 2:30
  Cheryl: Um, what about your perspective growing up or with your
• 2:34
  Christie: kids?
• 2:35
  Christie: Well, I know when, you know, we have all girls and when we had, when we found out our second was a girl also, my first thought was, oh, this is gonna be just so much fun.
• 2:46
  Christie: I just, that's.
• 2:47
  Christie: All I could think is how much fun they were gonna have together and how beautifully they were gonna get along and play dolls and share clothes.
• 2:53
  Christie: Clothes.
• 2:54
  Christie: Yes.
• 2:55
  Christie: And then like this person asking, we had very different personalities.
• 3:00
  Christie: Right.
• 3:00
  Christie: And conflict came very
• 3:02
  Cheryl: quickly.
• 3:03
  Cheryl: and my family of origin growing up, I didn't realize, actually part of my personality, it was a real gift to my parents because I really just was a nice, let's get all along kind.
• 3:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 3:17
  Cheryl: Older sister.
• 3:18
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 3:18
  Cheryl: And, uh, there were some dynamics with my brother that was hard, but mm-hmm.
• 3:24
  Cheryl: I wasn't a troublemaker.
• 3:25
  Cheryl: And so I got along really well.
• 3:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 3:29
  Cheryl: I mean, I've talked to my kids about, I used that in talking with them about their interactions.
• 3:35
  Cheryl: And I actually made a statement and they went, no way, mom.
• 3:39
  Cheryl: Cuz I didn't argued with either of my younger sisters.
• 3:42
  Cheryl: We didn't a fight.
• 3:43
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:44
  Cheryl: And so then when we went to visit them down Louisiana, my kids corralled each one of them and said, okay, aunt Dorothy, this is what mom said.
• 3:53
  Cheryl: And she goes, you're right.
• 3:55
  Cheryl: Oh my, oh
• 3:56
  Christie: my goodness, Cheryl, that's, that's just unfathomable to me.
• 3:58
  Christie: I was definitely a bossy big sister, the oldest, and.
• 4:03
  Christie: Told everyone how they needed to live their lives well
• 4:06
  Cheryl: But outside of interacting with me, there was a lot of turmoil.
• 4:09
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:10
  Cheryl: But in my interactions with them, there wasn't.
• 4:13
  Cheryl: And so my kids were just dumbfounded cuz both of'em said no.
• 4:17
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:17
  Cheryl: You know, we didn't, uh, they didn't talk about the two of them together.
• 4:22
  Cheryl: That was a different dynamic.
• 4:23
  Cheryl: It sure was.
• 4:25
  Cheryl: So I was set up to think that that's what it was gonna be like in my home.
• 4:30
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 4:31
  Ellen: And it was, see, I didn't even like my sister.
• 4:34
  Ellen: I questioned God's reason for putting her on the earth for many, many years.
• 4:39
  Ellen: And she has the scars to prove it.
• 4:41
  Ellen: Uhhuh, you know, I probably beat her up more times than I should have.
• 4:45
  Ellen: I was not.
• 4:46
  Ellen: A nice big sister.
• 4:48
  Ellen: She was actually a really, really sweet sister.
• 4:50
  Ellen: She really was a sweet sister.
• 4:52
  Ellen: Um, but I just, that wasn't, you know, I you do it my way or that's it.
• 4:58
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 4:58
  Ellen: We wound up, once we got into adulthood, being super good friends.
• 5:03
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 5:04
  Ellen: Loved each other, laughed over some of the, you know, kids stuff that had happened.
• 5:09
  Ellen: But, you know, I, I wasn't a very gracious big sister.
• 5:12
  Ellen: I was much more kind to my friends and stuff than I was my, my little sister.
• 5:17
  Ellen: She was just a bother and I didn't appreciate her in very many ways, so, wow.
• 5:23
  Ellen: You know, and I did not see that with my own children.
• 5:27
  Ellen: They didn't treat each other that way.
• 5:29
  Ellen: They weren't disapproving or mean or just punched for no reason.
• 5:34
  Ellen: And
• 5:35
  Cheryl: isn't this interesting?
• 5:36
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 5:37
  Cheryl: That your generation, you Yeah.
• 5:40
  Cheryl: Were the mess.
• 5:41
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:41
  Cheryl: And then, Yeah.
• 5:43
  Cheryl: God just did a wonderful thing in your children.
• 5:45
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:46
  Ellen: All the kids were just really, and if you ask them, you know, they, they can't remember any big fights between them.
• 5:52
  Ellen: They might have had some disagreements.
• 5:54
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 5:54
  Ellen: But, you know mm-hmm.
• 5:55
  Ellen: Nothing, no knockdown, drag out fights and, you know, um, and Mike had three younger brothers and he only had a conflict with.
• 6:04
  Ellen: Two of the, the three.
• 6:06
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 6:06
  Ellen: You know, his, his next youngest brother, they were best friends.
• 6:09
  Ellen: They still are.
• 6:10
  Ellen: And the other brothers they had conflict with.
• 6:13
  Ellen: But you know, it was kind of them against us sort of thing.
• 6:16
  Ellen: So, I don't know.
• 6:17
  Ellen: The dynamics are really, really strange in family sometimes.
• 6:22
  Cheryl: You know, it's interesting, here we are at family psychosis analysis.
• 6:26
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:27
  Cheryl: But when you said that, I think.
• 6:30
  Cheryl: That may have also been a factor because my brother was older than I was and there was a lot of volatility there.
• 6:35
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:36
  Cheryl: And I think it was a little bit, whatever.
• 6:39
  Cheryl: What'd you say that y'all were?
• 6:41
  Cheryl: Unified that y'all were unified because of him.
• 6:45
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:45
  Cheryl: And I think maybe that's probably, yeah, that makes sense.
• 6:48
  Cheryl: Motivation for me, I was naturally mm-hmm.
• 6:51
  Cheryl: That kind of person, but I disliked the volatility.
• 6:55
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 6:55
  Cheryl: That was in my relationship with everybody, with my grand, and I think maybe we unified us.
• 7:02
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 7:02
  Cheryl: Cuz
• 7:02
  Ellen: you had a common quote enemy.
• 7:04
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 7:04
  Ellen: Right?
• 7:05
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 7:05
  Ellen: And you had to be on defense against that
• 7:07
  Christie: one person.
• 7:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:08
  Christie: Right?
• 7:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:09
  Christie: That, that is very unifying if you have Yes.
• 7:11
  Christie: Different, you know, problem, different, uh, experiences, people traumas in your life.
• 7:17
  Christie: It can be add to the dynamics.
• 7:19
  Christie: And I think that's kind of what we're.
• 7:21
  Christie: Pointing at is that it's so individual, not just in your parenting.
• 7:25
  Christie: Right?
• 7:25
  Christie: That's not the only dynamic at play here.
• 7:28
  Christie: Yeah.
• 7:28
  Christie: There's relationships because of different personalities, different lifestyles.
• 7:33
  Christie: Yeah.
• 7:33
  Christie: Different experiences that all come into play.
• 7:35
  Cheryl: It's really true because you know to say, oh, it takes really good parenting and you know how to do conflict resolution and, and relational integration.
• 7:47
  Cheryl: Because my parents.
• 7:49
  Cheryl: Didn't know to do any of that ever.
• 7:52
  Cheryl: And so that wasn't a factor in why I got along with my siblings.
• 7:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:57
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:57
  Cheryl: And so it is so individual and personal and not necessarily.
• 8:05
  Cheryl: Sprouting out of the parents.
• 8:06
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:07
  Cheryl: And the way they parent.
• 8:08
  Christie: Well, yeah, because we could talk about how we have, you know, a bunch of kids under one roof and have similar experiences and they do all have different, just like this person that's asking the question.
• 8:19
  Christie: Very different responses in each child.
• 8:21
  Christie: One personality dominating over another.
• 8:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 8:24
  Christie: One kind of gives in or.
• 8:26
  Christie: But gets frustrated about it.
• 8:27
  Christie: So it, it is very individual and I thought
• 8:30
  Ellen: of as a mom of five, that there would be a lot more fighting and things like that, cuz that's how I was with my only sister.
• 8:38
  Ellen: But it really wasn't that way at all.
• 8:39
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 8:40
  Ellen: The kids actually, in fact they've asked me, they've said, mom, how did you do it?
• 8:45
  Ellen: That we hardly ever fought with each other.
• 8:47
  Ellen: I said, I don't know.
• 8:49
  Ellen: I, I really don't know.
• 8:50
  Christie: What if you had the secret sauce?
• 8:52
  Christie: Yes, I would drop the podcast,
• 8:54
  Ellen: be really.
• 8:55
  Ellen: Wealthy.
• 8:56
  Ellen: So I honestly don't know what exactly I did that helped them not fight, you know?
• 9:03
  Ellen: Um, I was able to stay very present because I was home all the time So if I start to hear a little bit of a disturbance, I wouldn't go in and fix it because I didn't think that was the answer to fix it.
• 9:14
  Ellen: But I would go in and kind of intervene and go, Hey, is everybody being kind to each other?
• 9:19
  Ellen: What are you guys fighting about?
• 9:20
  Ellen: Are you working it out?
• 9:21
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 9:21
  Cheryl: You know?
• 9:22
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 9:22
  Cheryl: And see, and It wasn't open warfare, um, amongst my kids, but there was strife.
• 9:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:29
  Cheryl: And particularly I saw a lot of the dominant versus the more compliant Yes.
• 9:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:35
  Cheryl: What this mom wrote about mm-hmm.
• 9:38
  Cheryl: It was so hard, Ellen, cuz you're talking about are you working it out together?
• 9:42
  Cheryl: And one of the things that's important to me is fair.
• 9:45
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:46
  Cheryl: And I don't like bullies.
• 9:47
  Cheryl: Hmm.
• 9:47
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 9:48
  Cheryl: And so the problem is sometimes the dominant one.
• 9:52
  Cheryl: Is kind of bullying.
• 9:53
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:54
  Cheryl: Right.
• 9:54
  Cheryl: And so I can remember Actually taking one of the less dominant one aside and talking with her and literally trying to equip her by telling her it's okay, you don't have to give your cookie up.
• 10:08
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:08
  Cheryl: Just because the dominant one saying I'm really hungry.
• 10:12
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:13
  Cheryl: I really want another cookie uhhuh.
• 10:15
  Cheryl: And so the less dominant one gives in.
• 10:18
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:18
  Cheryl: And so, I don't know, as we talk about this, you know, where's the balance of letting them work it out mm-hmm.
• 10:27
  Cheryl: But not letting power win.
• 10:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 10:30
  Cheryl: Well,
• 10:30
  Ellen: I I think that's an age thing too.
• 10:32
  Ellen: As your kids are growing up, it, it's different at different ages.
• 10:36
  Ellen: You know, when they're really young, it's just kind of raw.
• 10:38
  Ellen: Who's gonna be in charge?
• 10:39
  Ellen: Who gets what?
• 10:40
  Ellen: And if you're kind of listening, you would kind of hear that, oh, you know, sometimes I know the baby of the family would be upset with her older brother, but she was really the one who started the fight.
• 10:53
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 10:54
  Ellen: You know, but because she was crying and looked really innocent mm-hmm.
• 10:59
  Ellen: I would say, what did you do?
• 11:00
  Ellen: And he goes, I didn't do anything.
• 11:02
  Ellen: Yes, you did.
• 11:03
  Ellen: But then when we kind of talk, you have to have enough emotional energy as a parent to stop and listen to what everyone's saying.
• 11:10
  Ellen: Right.
• 11:11
  Ellen: And try to still remain fair.
• 11:13
  Ellen: But usually I could figure out, oh, she actually did something kind of bratty, which got her brother mad and he eventually was the one that I was hearing in anger.
• 11:24
  Ellen: Right.
• 11:24
  Ellen: But, The little sister
• 11:26
  Cheryl: manipulating Yes.
• 11:27
  Cheryl: Was manipulating
• 11:28
  Christie: the whole situation.
• 11:29
  Christie: Well, and I think that's where I went wrong a lot with my girls is I parented more out of convenience to me.
• 11:35
  Christie: Yeah., not just Listening objectively to the situation.
• 11:38
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:38
  Christie: And now that my kids are almost all in their twenties, I'm hearing all of the, well, you've always did this, are you, you know, you never listened to me about that and who always got their way and all of that.
• 11:48
  Christie: But I, I think more often it was the loudest kid got.
• 11:54
  Christie: To win that fight.
• 11:54
  Cheryl: What do you mean by parenting, by convenience.
• 11:56
  Cheryl: Explain more about
• 11:57
  Christie: what you on that.
• 11:58
  Christie: Well, you know, whatever was most convenient.
• 12:00
  Christie: For not just me but the family.
• 12:02
  Christie: You know, if this person getting the toy got us to bedtime quicker, or if this person getting to wear this dress got us out the door faster or whatever would make things a little easier.
• 12:14
  Christie: Or some kids convinced me a little better and I wanted to make that child happy.
• 12:19
  Christie: Or if my emotions, you know, drove things too, where.
• 12:23
  Christie: I felt bad for this kid because I knew they had a dentist appointment today.
• 12:26
  Christie: Well, I didn't already wanna make their day worse or, yeah.
• 12:29
  Christie: I, I don't think I, not that I never thought objectively, but more often than not, it was not a, um, wise approach to sibling conflict resolution.
• 12:41
  Ellen: Well, I can remember just, you know, not even knowing how to solve it or figure out Denny.
• 12:47
  Ellen: So I just made everybody sit on the soap and read a book.
• 12:50
  Ellen: Right.
• 12:50
  Ellen: And all of our friends thought it was hilarious.
• 12:52
  Ellen: Right.
• 12:52
  Ellen: But you know, cuz they knew if they came in and our kids were reading, they were in trouble.
• 12:56
  Ellen: But it wasn't.
• 12:58
  Ellen: You know, it wasn't an outward punishment cuz I couldn't figure it out.
• 13:01
  Ellen: I don't know what happened.
• 13:02
  Ellen: Right.
• 13:03
  Ellen: So the conflict just needs to be stopped.
• 13:05
  Ellen: So everybody go to your corner of the sofa and read
• 13:08
  Christie: your book and be quiet.
• 13:09
  Christie: Right.
• 13:09
  Christie: Well, and sometimes there's there's no Right Yeah.
• 13:13
  Christie: Solution.
• 13:13
  Christie: That's right.
• 13:14
  Christie: It's either one child is just really believable.
• 13:17
  Christie: Right.
• 13:17
  Christie: And you know, they're probably lying, but you can't prove it.
• 13:20
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:20
  Christie: And
• 13:20
  Ellen: who has the energy, right?
• 13:22
  Ellen: I mean, a lot of times as a parent it's not like all you're doing is parenting.
• 13:27
  Ellen: You're trying to get dinner on the table, get the house cleaned up.
• 13:29
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 13:30
  Ellen: Taking somebody somewhere, somebody's come.
• 13:32
  Ellen: So, you know, at some point you just have to go, okay, we're gonna be Switzerland, we're going to be neutral.
• 13:37
  Ellen: Everybody go to their corners
• 13:39
  Cheryl: and read a book.
• 13:40
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:40
  Cheryl: And you know, when you're talking about convenience, um, I will say sometimes, uh, a bit of convenience, but I was predisposed to the more aggressive children.
• 13:52
  Cheryl: I.
• 13:53
  Cheryl: To think they probably were the problem.
• 13:55
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:55
  Cheryl: Oh yeah.
• 13:56
  Cheryl: And I had to catch myself uh, on the quick draw of stopping them.
• 14:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:03
  Cheryl: or I could see it was starting to ramp up.
• 14:06
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 14:07
  Cheryl: And I thought, oh, if I can put this small fire out Right.
• 14:10
  Cheryl: We won't have ablating forest fire in the middle of when we're trying to get ready to go on a trip.
• 14:16
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 14:16
  Cheryl: And so, It's a little bit of convenience, but the convenience of peace.
• 14:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:21
  Cheryl: So, whoa.
• 14:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:22
  Cheryl: What can I do?
• 14:23
  Cheryl: And, and I was really guilty of that.
• 14:25
  Cheryl: Sometimes shutting them down mm-hmm.
• 14:27
  Cheryl: To stop it.
• 14:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:29
  Cheryl: Trying to do early, but I think, I
• 14:31
  Ellen: think that's really real life though.
• 14:33
  Ellen: As our children enter into adulthood, their bosses, their teachers, whatever, aren't gonna go, okay, boys and girls who started it, it's usually go to your corners and be quiet.
• 14:44
  Ellen: Right?
• 14:45
  Ellen: And so there's only so much we can do.
• 14:47
  Ellen: We can come back around and talk about fairness and things like, That.
• 14:52
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 14:53
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 14:53
  Ellen: And you don't wanna have, your children have an unfair environment, but they have to learn to live with mom.
• 15:00
  Ellen: Judge the situation wrong.
• 15:02
  Ellen: That wasn't fair.
• 15:03
  Christie: That's true.
• 15:03
  Christie: It really can be a long game.
• 15:05
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:05
  Christie: Over the course of their childhood.
• 15:07
  Cheryl: Al.
• 15:07
  Cheryl: I really like that.
• 15:08
  Cheryl: because I think everybody listening unless there's something really unusual, can identify from their own life as well as their parenting life.
• 15:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:17
  Cheryl: So what would we speak into this?
• 15:20
  Cheryl: I would say for me, in reflecting back, um, being.
• 15:24
  Cheryl: Too quick to try and fix it.
• 15:27
  Cheryl: Right.
• 15:28
  Cheryl: Because I didn't want it to explode and I wanted let's just get along and be kind to each other.
• 15:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:33
  Cheryl: Was my philosophy.
• 15:34
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:34
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:34
  Cheryl: And um, I had to be self-aware to see what was going on, choosing to slow down, change my priorities, and then be willing to.
• 15:48
  Cheryl: Talk about it.
• 15:49
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:49
  Cheryl: you know, let me say this, there's a place to say no.
• 15:54
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:54
  Cheryl: And like you're saying, yeah.
• 15:55
  Cheryl: Go to your corners, this is it.
• 15:57
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:57
  Cheryl: When I just can't do anymore, I can't resolve it.
• 16:01
  Cheryl: that's not a wrong thing to do, but I don't want our home to be characterized by that.
• 16:04
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:05
  Cheryl: But I want us to be characterized that we have the conversations and then I listen and, it was me.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: I had to slow down, right?
• 16:16
  Cheryl: I had to choose to set aside my agenda.
• 16:18
  Cheryl: Let's say we're packing to go for a vacation and I had to stop Now we're gonna have to talk about it.
• 16:24
  Cheryl: Let's have a conversation.
• 16:27
  Cheryl: And you were saying, a lot of times you hear the conversation, you find out, oh, child A was wrong, child B.
• 16:33
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:34
  Cheryl: But sometimes it was.
• 16:36
  Cheryl: I was packing and, and helping my sister and loving on her, and she just turned and shredded me and, well, I was actually quoting Bible verses to, you know, yeah, uhhuh.
• 16:49
  Cheryl: Their stories were irreconcilable.
• 16:51
  Cheryl: And so one of the things that really helped me is to take the my microscope, off of my children.
• 16:59
  Cheryl: Yes, that's good.
• 17:00
  Cheryl: Yeah, because there is a place to let the ebb and flow of relationships, right.
• 17:06
  Cheryl: Um, it isn't all gonna be solved real fast.
• 17:10
  Cheryl: But I have to have a line where we're not gonna be unkind.
• 17:13
  Cheryl: Well, and I
• 17:13
  Christie: think too, take that microscope and trade it for a telescope and look at what they are for the long haul or what they have a history of what they're characterized by.
• 17:21
  Christie: Because really what we're doing with conflict resolution is equipping our kids for future conflict resolution as adults.
• 17:28
  Christie: So some of them need to be empowered with a louder voice.
• 17:32
  Christie: And some of them need to be taught how to graciously give what they wanna say rather than that's good.
• 17:38
  Christie: You know, loudly declare it to the sibling.
• 17:41
  Christie: And so equipping them will look different with each child.
• 17:44
  Christie: But like you said, not with a microscope of whatever this issue is in this moment.
• 17:49
  Christie: Taking a breath to think this child has a chronic problem with.
• 17:54
  Christie: Being bossy, right?
• 17:55
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:55
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:55
  Christie: This is what I need to
• 17:56
  Cheryl: address.
• 17:56
  Cheryl: Or microscopically dealing with every single conflict all
• 18:01
  Ellen: alone.
• 18:01
  Ellen: You know?
• 18:02
  Ellen: Because I can't figure this out, nor do I have the emotional energy either.
• 18:07
  Ellen: And sometimes that's just life, right?
• 18:11
  Ellen: We,
• 18:11
  Cheryl: we can't figure it out.
• 18:12
  Cheryl: I'd like what both of you're saying, this is to keep it in the context.
• 18:17
  Cheryl: Run thinking sibling rivalry, right?
• 18:20
  Cheryl: Just say, this is part of how I equipped my children, how to engage with other people.
• 18:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:27
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:27
  Cheryl: How to be in the context of intimacy and then yet be my own person with my own desires and thoughts, yet not be unkind.
• 18:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:38
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:39
  Cheryl: And hurt the other one.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: That's huge.
• 18:41
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 18:41
  Cheryl: That's top tier.
• 18:42
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:43
  Christie: Emotional health.
• 18:44
  Christie: Right.
• 18:44
  Christie: And I think, like you're saying, Not getting so caught up in today's behaviors being there forever.
• 18:50
  Christie: Yeah, I mean, I can show you girls a scar on my hand from where my brother clawed me when I was 11 and had chunks of my flesh under his fingernails.
• 18:59
  Cheryl: Oh my goodness.
• 18:59
  Christie: but.
• 19:00
  Christie: You know, we live across the street from each other.
• 19:03
  Christie: And guess who the first person either of us call for help with our kids or anything is today.
• 19:07
  Christie: Yes.
• 19:07
  Christie: And so, yeah, age and maturity go a long way.
• 19:11
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 19:11
  Christie: And so not getting bogged down and you know, they are constantly fighting does not mean they will always be like this.
• 19:17
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 19:17
  Christie: And
• 19:18
  Ellen: I think because it's exhausting I think that's really hard because the parent that's with them at the time would like some peace and quiet cuz there's nothing worse than everybody's fighting.
• 19:28
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:28
  Ellen: And that's a perfectly normal human response to life.
• 19:31
  Ellen: But on the flip side, That really isn't the human experience.
• 19:35
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 19:36
  Ellen: It's filled with conflict.
• 19:37
  Ellen: It's filled with disagreement.
• 19:39
  Ellen: Um, you're not gonna go into any environment where everything's gonna be fine and you have to teach your children how to, you know, fight fairly mm-hmm.
• 19:49
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:49
  Cheryl: Now that's what I, I was just gonna ask y'all, what do y'all think?
• 19:53
  Cheryl: you know how we've been talking about road trip and that we come up with our big view of what we want.
• 19:58
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:59
  Cheryl: Our children to take away with them.
• 20:01
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:01
  Cheryl: But to say there is a boundary of unkindness that I'm not gonna allow you to do.
• 20:07
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:07
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:07
  Cheryl: So like clawing and scratching at each other or wherever.
• 20:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:12
  Cheryl: As a family or as parent, you decide.
• 20:14
  Cheryl: We're not gonna allow this, like what the mom wrote about the older sibling criticizing and being unkind.
• 20:21
  Cheryl: Um, I'd have a little flexibility of that, but.
• 20:25
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:25
  Cheryl: I wouldn't allow the berating, the ongoing unkindness Right.
• 20:31
  Cheryl: Needs to be stopped.
• 20:31
  Cheryl: Definitely.
• 20:32
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:32
  Cheryl: And And just allow regular junk of sibling rivalry.
• 20:37
  Cheryl: But have decided, Ellen, you're always saying think ahead of time.
• 20:40
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:40
  Cheryl: Prepare yourself.
• 20:42
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:42
  Cheryl: To say, have your
• 20:42
  Ellen: battle plan.
• 20:43
  Cheryl: That's right.
• 20:44
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:44
  Cheryl: And this is where the line is drawn and I'm going to save my energy.
• 20:49
  Cheryl: From all the blah, blah, blah, right?
• 20:52
  Cheryl: Of regular rivalry, just to have the energy to say you're being unkind.
• 20:58
  Cheryl: We're not gonna allow this.
• 20:59
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:00
  Christie: And I think another part of that battle plan of thinking ahead can be fostering relationship outside of conflict too.
• 21:07
  Christie: Okay.
• 21:08
  Christie: Talk about that little things that, you know, teach them to appreciate the sibling and celebrate their strengths.
• 21:15
  Christie: And you know, like, We do at birthdays.
• 21:18
  Christie: We go around and say, you know, on the person's birthday, however many things about that person that we love, or, you know, just different things like that that can cause them to really meditate on their strengths, the other, the siblings strengths rather than, cuz you know, personalities, if it's just a cruel experiment really to put a handful of personalities in one house or even one bedroom with no at all them.
• 21:42
  Christie: That's true.
• 21:43
  Christie: And so finding times that you can.
• 21:45
  Christie: Appreciate the differences.
• 21:47
  Christie: I think it's helpful
• 21:48
  Ellen: too.
• 21:48
  Ellen: I know I remember one time my two middle daughters were having some kind of conflict.
• 21:52
  Ellen: They shared the bedroom and it was pitch black in their room.
• 21:55
  Ellen: And I went in there, and this was probably the third time one of us had been in there.
• 21:59
  Ellen: And so finally I go in and I said, now it's the problem.
• 22:03
  Ellen: Well, she's staring at me and I said, how do you know the rooms?
• 22:08
  Ellen: Pitch black.
• 22:09
  Ellen: I feel her eyes.
• 22:11
  Ellen: Oh my
• 22:11
  Christie: please.
• 22:13
  Christie: Well, we had two girls in each bedroom.
• 22:15
  Christie: So two girls shared each bedroom.
• 22:17
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:17
  Christie: And one in one room was tidy and one was creative.
• 22:22
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:22
  Christie: And same in the other room.
• 22:24
  Christie: And they would always say, why can't we put the tidy ones in the same room together?
• 22:27
  Christie: And then let the other girls have their space?
• 22:29
  Christie: And I would say, because there would be.
• 22:31
  Christie: Critters living in that other living room.
• 22:33
  Christie: I mean, you have to have some balance here.
• 22:35
  Christie: Yes.
• 22:35
  Christie: But it is, it's so good for them to have each other to rub off on one another.
• 22:40
  Christie: Yes.
• 22:40
  Christie: And hold each other accountable but, shared space is, is hard.
• 22:44
  Christie: And giving
• 22:45
  Ellen: them situations, depending on their age and maturity, where they have some independent things that they do.
• 22:52
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:53
  Ellen: Where they need each other.
• 22:54
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 22:54
  Ellen: Oh, that, like a simple thing this is, was always really important to me was, um, a lot of times we would, um, Pull up to maybe seven-eleven or something to grab some milk.
• 23:05
  Ellen: And I didn't wanna have to pull all the kids Yeah.
• 23:08
  Ellen: Out of the car and car seats.
• 23:09
  Ellen: So the two older ones that were designated when they were younger would go in together for security for each other, and they would purchase the three or four little items we needed, but they got to cooperate.
• 23:23
  Ellen: Mm.
• 23:23
  Ellen: They kind of had to look after each other when they were in the store together.
• 23:26
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 23:27
  Ellen: And it kind of built that little bit of camaraderie.
• 23:29
  Ellen: Oh.
• 23:30
  Ellen: We can do things together, we can get along.
• 23:32
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 23:33
  Ellen: We can complete a task.
• 23:34
  Ellen: Right.
• 23:34
  Ellen: Without it being a
• 23:35
  Christie: conflict.
• 23:36
  Christie: I remember grocery shopping was, you know, yeah.
• 23:39
  Christie: A family event for us, especially when Tim was traveling.
• 23:41
  Christie: It would just be me and the girls, so yeah.
• 23:43
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:44
  Christie: Everyone had their task and I, I remember I would ask them, okay, who do you guys think would be best at putting the bags away?
• 23:49
  Christie: Or Who do you think would be best organize the pantry?
• 23:51
  Christie: And, and I remember just this one conversation specifically.
• 23:55
  Christie: Being so happy that they were like, oh yeah, Natalie's really good at that.
• 23:58
  Christie: Or Oh, Ashlyn's really good at that.
• 23:59
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 24:00
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:00
  Christie: And it was like this one, the music was playing in the background of my mind because I was like, oh, they're saying nice things about each other.
• 24:06
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Christie: But like that, giving them opportunities, that's really good to recognize one another's
• 24:11
  Cheryl: face because it is the intimacy that's the problem.
• 24:15
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:16
  Cheryl: Uh, one of the thing though, is, To go down on the competition.
• 24:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:21
  Cheryl: Particularly where the parents are involved.
• 24:23
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:24
  Cheryl: You know that if you have a predisposition, right.
• 24:27
  Cheryl: Again, it's me being self-aware and other aware mm-hmm.
• 24:30
  Cheryl: That I'm not.
• 24:33
  Cheryl: Setting up competition between them or rewarding a certain behavior.
• 24:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:39
  Cheryl: which is
• 24:39
  Ellen: hard not to do Sometimes.
• 24:40
  Ellen: It's very hard not to, you're not even aware that I'm favoring this child, not because I love them more, because maybe they're easier to get along with.
• 24:48
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 24:49
  Ellen: Right?
• 24:49
  Ellen: And so if I have to ask them to do something, they're gonna go, sure, mom.
• 24:53
  Cheryl: And so not realizing.
• 24:55
  Cheryl: The rejection that that is for the others.
• 24:58
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:58
  Cheryl: So that I'm fostering division rather than building up.
• 25:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:03
  Cheryl: And so, again, we've said it already, but I have to slow down.
• 25:08
  Cheryl: I've got to give myself emotional margin so that I'm not the instigator I don't wanna be a contributing factor to it.
• 25:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:17
  Cheryl: Instead, I want to be.
• 25:19
  Cheryl: The grace that comes in and tries to bring balance.
• 25:23
  Cheryl: And then The other thing I would say, you talked about having conversations.
• 25:28
  Cheryl: I like the conversations to be private.
• 25:31
  Cheryl: So that they have the safety to say what they want.
• 25:33
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:34
  Cheryl: And we can talk.
• 25:35
  Cheryl: And so particularly like this, that I'm not having the conversation and they are trying to compete with one another.
• 25:43
  Cheryl: Right.
• 25:44
  Cheryl: To me, right.
• 25:45
  Cheryl: Or to appeal to me.
• 25:47
  Cheryl: But that we have our individual conversations and we can't have it all the time.
• 25:51
  Cheryl: There isn't time to do all of it.
• 25:53
  Cheryl: So we always say, and sometimes tick your
• 25:55
  Ellen: battles, right?
• 25:56
  Ellen: As a parent you need some downtime.
• 25:58
  Ellen: I, there's lots of times when there's been a bunch of conflict, I don't wanna have a conversation with anybody cause I'm irritated with every one of you.
• 26:05
  Ellen: Yes.
• 26:06
  Ellen: And so it's a lot better if I can step back and wait, especially to the non-conflict time, which might be later in the day.
• 26:14
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 26:14
  Ellen: Yes.
• 26:14
  Ellen: And bring up the subject.
• 26:16
  Ellen: Hey, when you two were doing this.
• 26:19
  Ellen: What was going on.
• 26:20
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 26:20
  Ellen: And were you keeping the idea of being kind to one another?
• 26:24
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 26:24
  Christie: Well, and sibling conflict is one of those.
• 26:27
  Christie: Areas of parenting that if you blow it, it's okay.
• 26:29
  Christie: You'll get another chance.
• 26:30
  Christie: Yes, sure.
• 26:31
  Christie: It's really true.
• 26:31
  Christie: It's again and again, usually within the next 30 minutes.
• 26:34
  Cheryl: Right, right.
• 26:35
  Cheryl: I think when they're little, if you are still in the younger ages, you can set a whole lot of really good groundwork mm-hmm.
• 26:44
  Cheryl: About how we treat each other.
• 26:45
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:45
  Cheryl: And how we don't grab toys outta the other person's hand.
• 26:48
  Cheryl: And one of the phrases we would say is sharing is one of the ways we show love to one another.
• 26:53
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:54
  Cheryl: So, You know, we're gonna say when you're through with that, could I have a turn to take the time to do this and not let, uh, Lord, the flies rule and reign well, just setting the ground rules.
• 27:06
  Ellen: Right.
• 27:06
  Ellen: So that's really what you're doing.
• 27:07
  Ellen: You're just establishing for them, this is the behavior, even though psychologically they don't understand all this.
• 27:13
  Ellen: No, this is how you get your toy.
• 27:15
  Ellen: This is how you get to do this other thing when you ask the right way, when you treat somebody kindly.
• 27:20
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 27:21
  Ellen: And I think kids do understand
• 27:22
  Cheryl: that.
• 27:23
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 27:23
  Cheryl: And if we have the luxury of still being in those early seasons mm-hmm.
• 27:27
  Cheryl: To lay the groundwork and then work our way up.
• 27:30
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 27:30
  Cheryl: What are things that you wanted to say that you haven't said that we wanna bring in to equip our listeners I'm
• 27:36
  Christie: just thinking of the last part of that parent's question of, is this normal Yeah.
• 27:40
  Christie: Sibling behavior that I don't need to worry about and, and we're saying we should tend to it, but.
• 27:46
  Christie: Yes, it's normal.
• 27:47
  Christie: It's normal sibling behavior, and I think sometimes our expectations of, you know, perfect harmony.
• 27:52
  Christie: Yes, perfect harmony of children singing and playing all day long is probably what gets us in trouble because we think, you know, I, they're, I'm doing something wrong If they're not, Having a fun time all the time.
• 28:02
  Christie: So
• 28:03
  Cheryl: either I'm wrong or they're wrong.
• 28:04
  Cheryl: Right?
• 28:05
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:05
  Cheryl: Instead of this is life together.
• 28:07
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:07
  Christie: This is humans part of the parenting job.
• 28:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:09
  Cheryl: This is great.
• 28:10
  Cheryl: You know, we were gonna do all these questions we had and so, um, the sibling work took up our time here as it does in
• 28:18
  Christie: parenting.
• 28:19
  Christie: It sure
• 28:20
  Cheryl: does.
• 28:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:21
  Cheryl: okay.
• 28:22
  Cheryl: I think the parent that wrote us might be a little frustrated that we didn't exactly give a 1, 2, 3 step answer about their question, because if there were a healthy, wise, easy answer to solving sibling rivalry, we'd go do a TED Talk on it.
• 28:42
  Cheryl: But this normal family ingredient that we call sibling rivalry is really all about learning how to get along in intimate relationships, and do conflict reservation, and actually learn how to love others better.
• 28:59
  Cheryl: Right
• 28:59
  Ellen: It's true.
• 29:00
  Cheryl: What a blessing because.
• 29:02
  Cheryl: Of all these lessons that we talk about, that our children learn, that they, learning from it, growing from it.
• 29:09
  Cheryl: So as they move into adulthood, we've hopefully equipped them some with knowing that wonderful thing of I can be in a relationship with someone, have tension and still choose to love them.
• 29:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 29:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 29:23
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 29:23
  Ellen: That's really good.
• 29:24
  Cheryl: So parents, Hang in there.
• 29:26
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it After having listened to this, you can probably tell I am not a big fan of conflict or lack of harmony, and so I wish I had heard this conversation when my children were little.
• 29:51
  Cheryl: It would've helped me to see that it's because we're in relationship with one another, that there's friction, and then to develop and grow through it.
• 30:01
  Cheryl: Rather than just trying to stop the conflict and the rivalry.
• 30:05
  Cheryl: So what about you?
• 30:06
  Cheryl: What's one where you deal with conflict in your family?
• 30:10
  Cheryl: Why don't you let us hear from you?
• 30:12
  Cheryl: Text us contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 30:16
  Cheryl: I'm glad you could join us today.
• 30:18
  Cheryl: Next time we're gonna jump back on the road again and talk about the family road trip during the middle season of the parenting years.
• 30:28
  Cheryl: I hope you can listen in.