Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Josh Leonard | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #139 |

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Josh Leonard | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #139 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian
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Reef podcast. Today's guest is a podcaster
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hailing all the way from Pennsylvania in the United
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States. His name is Josh Leonard,
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welcome to the show Josh. How you doing?
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Good good. Thanks for having me Chris and I
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appreciate it. It's a pleasure to have you on
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the show. Yeah so I will straight up just
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say like let's go straight to the plugging because I actually
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appeared on Josh's show. It's not available just yet.
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And to be fair, I don't know when this is dropping either
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because I do things ahead as does Josh, but his show is
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called the pursuit of infinity podcast and it kind of follows a
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suppose, like a bit of a similar theme to mine as far as I can
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interview style, but let's get the man himself, discussing his
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podcast, tell us about your podcast, the pursuit of
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infinity, what's the key theme and what you aiming to achieve
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with it? Yes, so it's basically me and my
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brother and so what we'll do is we'll have like one week.
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I'll post an You so either him or I so far it's only been me.
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That's been interviewing people. So like week one you know we'll
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post an interview and then we the second episode we too
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because we do weekly episodes was just him and I discussing
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things and we just go on and off that way.
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So it's either him and I just discussing questions, revolving
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around the big questions of the universe, spirituality,
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psychedelics mental health, even cultural commentary, and
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political commentary. Really Spanning across all
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spectrums. Do you have a sort of
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extrapolate a or kind of discuss the previous episodes?
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Like if you've had someone particularly, excuse me,
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particularly controversial or someone who's got some sort of
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unique ideas that you want to kind of further discuss with
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your brother like you ever do that.
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Yeah, sometimes will will mention previous episodes and
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because the themes are pretty Universal throughout, We often
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go back to certain subjects that we that we've already touched on
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and maybe elaborate a little more on those or just sort of
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bring them to the Forefront more within like, the topic.
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We're talking about within that episode awesome, man.
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Awesome. And yet, because this is the
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thing, when I appeared on your shirt, like my episode hasn't
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dropped yet. And I know that you're sort of
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doing it way ahead. And are you always used to
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wonder about this? Because I've been on quite a few
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different shows. Over the close to two years.
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I think. Now I'm doing this because it's
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quite a note. For those who don't know the
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podcasting sphere Community, if you like is very giving, I think
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it's very kind of back and forth and everyone wants to kind of
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prop each other up and help each other.
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But one thing I have noticed is and I've said this on previous
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shows. It's all about the numbers in
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the sense that you got to break through and get to a certain
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numbers and keep pushing and it's very thankless, you know,
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like you Your first 20 episodes under your belt and it's good
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feeling 50, 100, whatever I'm currently on a hundred and
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thirtysomething might be even 140 now.
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And I often tend to think about like, is there an ending to
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this? Well, what's the plan?
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What's the goal? And, and my personal thing is
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just, I don't know, just keep going.
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Let's see where this goes. But you sort of Fairly recently
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started, this haven't, you know, When did you start doing this?
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Yeah, I started doing this really in the beginning of this
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year. First episode dropped in
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January. Oh, wow.
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Okay, yes. Oh, so you recording kind of
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like the tail end of last year in preparation for the beginning
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of the okay. Okay.
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Yeah, yeah, since you're doing it like that because I'm doing
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the same thing. Like I've managed to sort of put
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myself into a bit of a difficult position where I've got loads of
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podcasts to do. But one after another but at the
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same time I see it as an opportunity I'm like oh this
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will put me ahead, I can next free schedule.
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These you know by myself some tires Etc you know, and it seems
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like a good idea but since you're doing this like all the
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time and you've been doing it for a bit longer, like what have
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you kind of learned from that process?
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Like does it make things easier and quicker?
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Like what's the deal? It makes things way easier and
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it's way more comfortable to have episodes recorded.
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Corded and edited ahead of time because what I usually try to do
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is I'll record interviews just as much as possible, and I'll
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keep those in the bank and then weekly, or actually, usually
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it's like bi-weekly every other weekend.
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Like my brother will come over and will record, and then on
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that Wednesday or Thursday, I'll release that episode.
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So it's like the, the interviews I keep in the bank just for like
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the, you know what I mean? Like, for the later dates and
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then we Hoard pretty much like on the spot almost.
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When we do the episodes of, it's just him.
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And I how many interviews have you done so far?
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Let's see how many have I died. We have nine episodes out.
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Actually I did just release our episode.
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So yeah. I think I have like five
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interviews because episode 13. Yeah, five interviews.
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And I have you ever interviewed before doing the podcast you
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having any experience in that kind of sphere?
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No, I have no No experience. I just really me and my brother.
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Just we love to talk about these that these types of subjects and
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we thought you know, why not just release this as a podcast
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you know because we have interesting conversations people
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around us tend to listen to them and you know while we're having
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the conversation and say oh man this would be a cool podcast to
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listen to. So we said you know, why not and
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I really loved the interview aspect as well too because it
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allows me to talk to people Who, you know, I've admired over the
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years to and that's really one of the main goals here is to be
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able to talk to people who I never thought I could ever
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talked to before. So who is some of the people
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you've been able to talk to you that you've been itching to talk
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to in them in the past? Like is it, like friends is, it
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is like, I don't know. Like who, who have you had on
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the show so far that you've been, really like enamored with.
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So one person that we just had an interview with it was episode
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7. I interviewed Joe more, he is
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the CEO and co-founder of psychedelics today which is in.
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It's a podcast and education Network for like psychedelic,
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integrated therapy, and these guys are fantastic.
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They're one of the biggest podcasts in the space which was
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always it's always something I wanted to get into with them and
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I've been To their podcast for a while.
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So that was a really cool opportunity as well.
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And I have this guy that's coming on, at the end of the
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month, his name is Daniel McQueen and he wrote a book that
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I really like called psychedelic cannabis.
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So it's all about how to use cannabis as like a psychedelic
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Sacrament, which is super interesting.
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So I'm getting to talk to him too.
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And one of my main people that I'm looking to as a man named
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Dennis McKenna, when I started to get a little bit, Bigger and
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our numbers start to rise. Like you were mentioning that's
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like my next big goal is to get him.
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So you have a bit of a keen interest in psychedelics from
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what I can for I can tell is that Based Maybe Upon previous
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experiences, previous Ventures into the Psychedelic sphere, or
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is that just purely just interest and looking at, you
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know, how one can expand their mind Etc, like what way does
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that interests sort of originated from?
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Well, the interested initially began around like 2015, 2016,
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you know, there was all this turmoil going on in my country
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surrounding the elections. He had these big figures Hillary
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Clinton, Donald Trump. And like I just noticed that
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there's so much wrong with our society, like in, there's so
8:19
much going on. That is just it's crumbling us
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and it's crushing us. And I was looking for an
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alternative way of thought and alternative way to sort of to
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think about things and I started to really contemplate, you know,
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the big questions of the universe, like, you know, where
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do we come from, what are we here for?
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You know, because obviously, Only the political sphere
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doesn't seem to be the right place.
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To find our purpose, what were meant to do, and how to heal the
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world? Because it's very sick.
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And I stumbled across a man named Terence McKenna with, who
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is the brother of the do that. I'm trying to get on.
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He passed away in 2000 unfortunately, and he talks
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about psychedelics mainly psychedelic, mushrooms and DMT
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dimethyltryptamine. And I started to get really,
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really Interested in these things because he would claim
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that you can transform your mind, transform the world.
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And they're these were just real magic.
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He described it. As it's basically the thing that
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they told you could never exist, you know?
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It's like a real connection to quote, unquote, God, or Spirit
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or soul. And I thought, man, this seems
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it seems interesting and it didn't, of course, it didn't
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click until I actually tried. Psychedelics and mushrooms were
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my first introduction into the Psychedelic world.
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And I mean, the experience of the mushroom was just
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reaffirming of everything that that he was saying, and
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everything that I was reading around the internet and
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listening to on podcast and things like that.
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So, yeah, the experience really, really reaffirmed what I was
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going for, and can you explain Lane a bit more about your
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actual experience, like the sort of things you were seeing or
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feeling like what was it? What was that?
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Like the experience itself is it's very subjective and it's
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very dose-dependent. So, without getting too crazy
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into like the details of the dosage, there's like threshold
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dosages where you really don't feel too much even before that.
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There's micro doses, which I'm not sure if you've heard a lot
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of in Silicon Valley, This thing is becoming really popular and I
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mean these are doses that you can't even feel an effect.
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It just gives you a slight Edge on your creativity, your energy
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levels. And those, it's really not a
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dose where you feel like you're getting like high in any way,
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but where my interest really lied was the heavy doses, the
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high doses, which they referred to as heroic good That.
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Well, fair enough. Fair enough.
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But like I want to push you a little bit more on this like
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what was there because but you always had these crazy stories
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about you know, what people see and feel and everything.
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And you know I mean I did drugs back in the day I did shrooms
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actually at one point and I never had an experience like
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that, you know? I mean, I think the closest I
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ever had to that was I accidentally had ketamine.
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It was largely laced in something that I'd Yeah, I know.
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It was quite kind of scary I found out later, and I was very
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annoyed, but it explained why I was so high and the feeling that
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I had and the best way I could explain it was, it was a summers
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day and I was probably 14 15 at the time and you're at the time
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we were used to smoking so I can weed, you know, it was no big
12:09
deal, really? And I'll just sitting now the
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group of friends smoking and chilling and that's it really
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but then I guess the Kettleman kicked in because I suddenly
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felt extremely cold you know almost to the extent of
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shivering. And I remember turning to this
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girl next to me and saying like, oh my God, it's so freezing and
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she looked at me, like, I was crazy and just said, what do you
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mean? It's like 30 degrees.
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And then I started to worry and I could feel my heart going like
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that, and I was like, okay, I need to calm down.
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I need to calm down, I'll get some water.
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And then the craziest bit happened, which was probably my
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only only real, I don't know out there experience if you want to
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call it that. I and I don't know if it was a
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dream or if it was perception or what.
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But I felt like I was In a like a movie theater sitting in one
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of the rows watching my life on a screen, but not watching like,
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you know, best bits or something.
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It was like just watching that specific moment.
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So I was watching myself and I remember switching in between
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that feeling and then also, You know, like just me sitting in
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that piece of patch of grass, you know, experience in that
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moment and it kept switching and every time it kept switching ni
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o, jump back into my body, so, to speak.
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I remember thinking, like, I'm okay calm down, calm down, I
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don't know when it's going to happen again.
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I just need to get through this. It'll probably last like an hour
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or two, like I've read enough online to know that this won't
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last too long and eventually it did.
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And I was just like, oh my God, that was intense.
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So that's my experience. Was it?
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What was it like that comparable?
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What was what was that experience?
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Like, what can you tell us? Oh yeah.
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I've had, I've had some pretty terrifying experiences.
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I've done I've done mushrooms some a bunch of times it's hard
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to even say how many times. Mushrooms are my favorite and
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pretty much my my go-to psychedelic I have experience
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with DMT as well, which is just outrageous.
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The most outrageous, psychedelic.
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You know that there is but yeah, I've had some pretty terrifying.
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Mushroom experiences to some absolutely glorious as well
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because when you get to the really higher doses, theirs If
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feeling of losing your mind, that is the most terrifying
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feeling in the world and what that is, is sort of like your
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ego is sort of holding on because it's feeling the warning
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signs of its disillusionment. So what happens when you take a
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really high dose is so when you start, it takes about an hour
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and 20 minutes for it to come on.
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And during that hour, and 20 minutes is the most anxious I've
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ever felt in my life. I get so anxious.
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So so much anxiety because you feel yourself starting to merge
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with this, this thing, you know, this thing, you can't describe
15:31
it and you feel yourself. It's it's so hard to put into
15:35
words but you get this crazy anxiety as if your mind is about
15:42
to lose control. Because what your ego does is,
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it's basically meant to facilitate survival within like
15:52
the physical world and what the mushrooms do is they sort of
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dissolve, your default mode Network, which is the place that
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your ego lives, essentially within your brain.
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And when that happens, all the alarms, go off and your ego is
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like, no, no, no. I got a hold on to this.
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I can't allow myself to go through this but you have to
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Ride that and surrender to the experience.
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And when you do surrender, that's when all the magic
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happens, See that to me. Sounds terrifying it, because in
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a way you said, you took you spoke about losing your mind,
16:30
like, couldn't you in theory, be lost forever.
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I mean, when you talk about this experience, it kind of reminds
16:37
me of Syd, Barrett from Pink, Floyd who famously didn't like a
16:42
particularly intense acid trip and he was described as being
16:47
sort of lost forever, you know, like he's I don't know if he's
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still alive now, I assume not but like he Was alive for many,
16:53
many decades. But like, just away like his
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mind was gone. Sid was gone.
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It's just like he was a shell of himself, kind of thing, and it
17:04
sounds a lot like what you're saying.
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This idea that maybe when he did his trip, he let go but he never
17:11
came back. Generally speaking your mind
17:16
will tell you that you're never going to come back and you're
17:19
going to die in this and that but you always come back the the
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difference between whether or not you come back in a healthy
17:30
way, is dependent on a few things.
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Number one is before you go into the experience, what research
17:37
have you done? What's your intention for going
17:41
into it? Like some people They go to a
17:43
party or they go to a festival or something.
17:46
And they take a whole bunch of acid, because also it's very
17:50
dose-dependent as well. So people don't necessarily know
17:53
how much they're taking or what they're getting.
17:55
So, if you take a whole bunch of drugs, whole bunch of acid,
17:58
added like a festival or a party, and you're just trying to
18:01
have fun with your friends. You may have and, like an
18:04
unintentional, what we call spiritually emergence, which is
18:08
that, that spiritual experience, which is which just, just Blows
18:13
all your perceptions of what you previously thought were real and
18:16
what were important just out of the water.
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So To me. It sounds like what someone like
18:23
him experienced was? Possibly they didn't he didn't
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actually know what he was getting himself into and also
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afterward. What's the most important part
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about taking a psychedelic especially at a high dose is
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that you what you call integrate you integrate the experience
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into your life because you go out into these far-off places
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into these magical Realms. And what's important is that you
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have those, those experiences have Inform what you do when you
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come back to this world and this realm at least.
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That's that's the way I look at it is that this is our default
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realm here, our default mode of Consciousness, and when we come
19:08
back we have to integrate those experiences into this mode of
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Consciousness because if not There's like a there's a battle
19:18
there might be a battle between yourself, you know, not knowing
19:22
what's real, not knowing what's important, you know what I mean?
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Yeah. But like when you say it like
19:27
that, it implies the, you know, there's definite control, and
19:31
it's like something that you have to consciously do in the
19:35
sense that and I'm just theorizing here like, you know,
19:37
based on what you said, but to me it seems like you're sort of
19:40
saying that once you come out the other end, you've then got a
19:42
kind of categorized, what you just.
19:45
I just don't understand like oh this is what it means.
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This is what it means as opposed to maybe continuously
19:53
questioning like oh what's the point of this?
19:55
Oh my God, what's the point? What's the point?
19:56
What's the point in driving yourself nuts with it?
19:58
Like, is that kind of what you mean?
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Or if I missed something there? Or there's a bit more to it?
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Sort of? Yeah, I mean that's that's sort
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of the idea. I mean, essentially, these
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experiences are so profound that they tend to, to change a Has
20:16
outlook on what's real on what's possible in the world.
20:19
And what's important. And if you're not ready for
20:22
that, type of like reality shattering experience, then
20:26
oftentimes, instead of integrating it into your life,
20:29
as like, a new form, or A New Perspective of thought, instead
20:34
you fight against it, right? And these experiences are all
20:39
about surrendering, and if you do surrender, if you do it the
20:43
right way and you consciously, A great it into your life.
20:47
It can it changes. It can change everything.
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I've seen it happen. It's happened to me.
20:51
The people that I'm close to, but the key is You have to have
20:57
respect for the substance respect for yourself, and you
21:00
have to be very, very careful. And also mixing of substances
21:06
with psychedelics, not a good thing.
21:09
If you're taking certain drugs daily, whether they be like
21:13
psychotropics or ssris, you can get what's called like serotonin
21:19
syndrome where it's like a serotonin overload in your mind
21:24
like in your brain like a literal, like Local overload of
21:27
Serotonin because your, your, I believe it's the same receptor
21:33
that serotonin fits into, that's what the active substance in
21:38
mushrooms, fits into as well, which is called psilocybin or
21:42
solution. And if you are taking a
21:47
substance that already is like overloading your brain with
21:51
serotonin and then you take another substance that does the
21:54
same thing, you could have submitted Issues.
21:56
So it's very dependent on, you know, what you're putting into
22:00
your body, you know, physically and mentally.
22:04
It's crazy how fragile our minds are just just a little bit of an
22:09
imbalance or tick one way and that's it changed forever.
22:15
That's crazy to think about it, but it makes more sense.
22:18
Now, you know, mean like for instance, if someone has the
22:21
curb, particularly catastrophic like car crash car accident,
22:25
something like that. And they had, you know it hits
22:28
them in a particular way and it can restructure everything, you
22:31
know, I can the brain for example and then they're not
22:34
same person and they demonstrate different behavior and it makes
22:38
sense in that, you know. Like I think we believe we're a
22:42
lot stronger than we are in somewhere.
22:44
Like it. Don't get me wrong.
22:45
We are stronger than the We Believe bit.
22:47
We have to be careful. Like one thing I've learned over
22:50
the last couple of years is that like mental health is something
22:54
you have to take very seriously. He even just something little
22:59
things like you can't take them lightly, you know.
23:02
You gotta pay attention to them and really, you know, try your
23:07
best to work on them excetera. Yeah.
23:10
These experiences are often described as some of the most
23:15
powerful and important experiences of people's lives
23:18
along with like the birth of their child and things like
23:20
that. So when there's something that's
23:22
that profound that you can experience, you have to take it.
23:26
You know, very carefully. So how did taking psychedelics
23:30
change your life in the way that you perceive life in your, your
23:35
outlook on life? Well, fundamentally.
23:38
I used to be a staunch atheist and a materialist completely.
23:46
I didn't really have a proper sense of value or what things
23:53
meant in my life. I just sort of, you know,
23:57
floated through Without much meaning.
24:02
And with that much joy, to be honest, and when I stumbled upon
24:07
these things it like the experience, gave me, it opened
24:13
up my mind, put it that way, it expanded my Consciousness in a
24:17
way where I could be more loving more compassionate toward people
24:22
more understanding of other people's views and it through
24:26
it, evaporated my a Atheism within the first, you know,
24:30
minute and a half of the experience, you know.
24:33
It just told me like, yeah, this is, you know, there's there's
24:35
more out there than what you think.
24:38
Because the essential thought of atheism, is that the only thing,
24:42
it's not that. There's no God.
24:44
It's that there's nothing except for this, except for what you
24:47
can perceive, and what you can measure with, you know, with
24:51
science essentially. And with what you can see hear
24:53
feel in your five senses but when you have a psychedelic
24:57
experience that Is as profound as some of these mushroom
25:01
experiences can be, it changes the way that you perceive what's
25:06
possible in the universe. So you sort of in the belief of,
25:14
for example, different dimensions things that we can't
25:17
see these kind of things. What's your view on that?
25:20
Yeah, definitely it it may be sort of understand that there's
25:25
more out there than what we can. Perceive with our senses because
25:30
you literally see things that you never thought were possible.
25:35
One of my my favorite parts of a psychedelic experience is
25:39
closing my eyes. So when I do it I take it in the
25:44
you know a dimly lit room with relaxing music candles around
25:49
like a very peaceful environment and that allows me to easily
25:53
close my eyes and go inside and what that means.
25:58
Is like, so when you close your eyes, you see these closed eye
26:02
visuals, you know, you always hear about people who take
26:05
mushrooms seeing the the walls breathing, and, you know, seeing
26:08
things melting and all that, that's fun, and that's fine.
26:12
But where, the rubber meets the road is when you take a high
26:15
dose and you close your eyes and go inside, because behind your
26:20
eyelids, you see some of the most magnificent things you
26:24
could ever imagine. Like, I my DMT Periences.
26:29
And some of my mushroom experiences, I can describe as
26:33
like, the most beautiful things I've ever seen.
26:36
And that's like, not even a comparison but by tenfold.
26:40
Because you see these colors in these shapes in these objects
26:45
morphing in on each other, and it's impossible for your mind to
26:50
come up with this stuff by itself.
26:52
I remember thinking the first time I was like, man, like my,
26:55
how in the world did my mind create this?
26:58
On the backside of my eyelids like how am I seeing this?
27:02
And then at a certain point the visuals almost diminish for me
27:09
and then I get and this may sound crazy, it may sound very
27:13
strange and weird and I understand that but it's the
27:16
only way I can put it into English, is it feels like you
27:20
connect with some like Superior intelligence that Is like
27:27
feeding you information. You know, it's almost like
27:30
you're it, you expand your Consciousness into the
27:35
consciousness of this Ultra intelligence and it allows you
27:38
to swim in just an endless realm of ideas and it's very
27:44
interesting to say the least. I kind of I've never had quite
27:51
that but, you know, and I said this to a recent guests as well.
27:55
I think that once you start being open to certain things, it
28:00
does ultimately change how you perceive things and how you
28:03
approach, life and everything in between.
28:05
And one thing I've experienced is this kind of A similar thing
28:13
with like intuition. Like I always used to think
28:15
intuition was just like random silly thoughts but now they're
28:21
like compulsions almost like I always see them like a cheat
28:24
cheat codes, you know, they just tell you what to do and they're
28:28
always the right thing to do by you.
28:34
But now it's kind of freaky because like, I don't know,
28:37
let's say I'm putting something off and I don't want to do it
28:40
straight away and then Thought inside me is like do it.
28:44
Do it now and when it goes do it now.
28:47
I'm like, okay. And then I do the thing and then
28:52
it's okay. And I wonder like is that maybe
28:55
the same thing? Is it?
28:57
You know? Because I've heard a lot of
28:58
things over the years. I've, you know, how people say
29:04
that we are Individual what is it a collective Consciousness,
29:09
expressed as individual Consciousness, you know?
29:11
So we're having a human experience.
29:14
A an individualistic experience, though.
29:18
We are interconnected and when people say that, it sounds
29:21
crazy, but the same time, it does make sense from the
29:24
perspective of like, When you see other people hurt, it
29:29
affects you. You know, like for instance when
29:33
you see something traumatic, like I was watching one of those
29:39
like Insider Vice pieces where it's like, they have someone in
29:44
a miser. Really good series.
29:45
They have someone in a mask because they don't want to show
29:47
their face and they want to remain anonymous and they talked
29:49
about like horrific things they've had to deal with or
29:51
Industries Etc. There was one guy who worked for
29:55
Facebook and he was he'd worked as like a Facebook moderator or
30:00
something like that. I was explaining all of these
30:03
horrific things he'd seen and he said that, like, It wasn't until
30:12
much like afterwards when he left the job and he sort of had
30:15
time to process it and realize like how much that affected him.
30:19
Even though it's not something directly happening in front of
30:21
him, it's an image or a video or whatever, it's still affected
30:25
him on some level and You know, when I started like reading and
30:31
hearing about things like that, it started for me to make sense
30:35
that why people have like, PTSD and traumatic episodes that are
30:39
triggered by things and stuff, like that makes a whole lot more
30:42
sense. Now, because it's like, we're
30:44
interconnected with seeing things, you know, that we
30:47
shouldn't see, you know, we should like we shouldn't be for
30:50
instance, at War, you know, we shouldn't, we shouldn't kill
30:52
each other and I truly believe that if you do something like
30:59
that, You can't live a normal life you just can't.
31:05
It's not only something that will sit with you for the rest
31:07
of your life. But it's like, I think, I think
31:12
it's like, people say, like, you know, when this thing happens a
31:15
little bit of your soul dies with it, kind of thing, you
31:18
know, I truly believe that and I think that comes down to us all
31:22
being connected is why, as you say, like, it's so important for
31:27
us to express compassion and love and emotion towards each
31:29
other and do our best to like, take care of each other.
31:32
Because of that fact, you know, you hurt others.
31:36
You hurt yourself and vice versa And I just see my head.
31:42
That makes sense, but I mean, love and compassion are two of
31:47
the things that, you know, psychedelics and spirituality
31:50
really pushed to the Forefront. And when you have like a
31:53
mystical experience of your own you, it's like at least for me
31:59
because it's not like these are just like a magic pill you take
32:02
and all of a sudden you're like this, like, you know, loving
32:05
compassionate, Spirit floating on clouds all day or something,
32:07
you know, you have to put the necessary. very work into, but
32:10
right what it meant for me, was it gave me a perspective of
32:15
compassion and spirituality that's supportive that
32:18
compassion, which is sort of like, Working on myself through
32:25
service to others which is like a like a Buddhist bhakti yoga
32:30
type of philosophy and yeah it really does promote the
32:37
connection because you feel I mean I've had experiences where
32:41
I felt like the collective, I'm getting Goosebumps even talking
32:46
about it. I felt the collective pain and
32:49
sorrow of the entire universe. And that comes in as like just
32:57
an experience of extreme sadness.
33:01
Actually, when I had this experience I didn't follow my
33:05
own rules of set and setting which is basically your mindset
33:11
is set and your setting is your environment.
33:14
So you have to have a good mindset and you have to have a
33:17
healthy environment that you're doing it in and both of those
33:21
things for me were off at this time.
33:23
And I took a huge dose when I shouldn't have and but, you
33:27
know, having had that crazy experience.
33:31
It's like, it was like a nightmare.
33:33
But having that experience, I learned more from, that than, I
33:36
think I had from any of my other positive experiences, which is
33:40
kind of peculiar. But I really felt the
33:43
connectedness of everything and everyone, and it came in and
33:48
like, a negative way. It came as sorrow and pain.
33:51
Most likely, just because I wasn't in the Correct mindset or
33:54
the setting for it, but I've had experiences where it comes as
33:58
just absolute love where you're just feeling the love and the
34:02
energy of everything and everyone and you are it, like
34:05
your you are, everyone, you are everything.
34:09
If that that makes any sense. No, no it does.
34:12
And it kind of reminds me of when I was a kid.
34:15
Well, naturally. Okay, no, this is really oddly
34:21
specific, but just bear with me. I remember.
34:24
So we have this thing in the UK remembrance Sunday is like, two
34:30
days. We were like poppies.
34:32
It's to do a World War one and what will too.
34:34
And I always remember looking at all the adults looking really
34:38
somber or on those days and never really quite getting it,
34:43
it'll connect him with it. Like I understood that it was a
34:46
sad thing and that people had died.
34:48
I understood the concept of that, but I didn't feel anything
34:53
and I felt like, is there something wrong with me am IA,
34:55
bad person? I mean, I was a kid, but I just
34:58
thought maybe there's something wrong with me, but now I look
35:02
back because obviously that's changed.
35:05
And now on those days, I I do think about that and I feel it.
35:15
I feel intense sadness. Because of, I understand what
35:19
that means and also, because something like that happened and
35:24
etc. Etc.
35:25
Right. But the reason I brought up the
35:28
kid thing is that When I observe kids now, like, you know, my
35:34
brothers and cousins and everything and that when they're
35:37
a bit younger and they're playing and happy and
35:39
everything, but they seem to have like a very effortless
35:44
ability to show love and affection.
35:47
And you know what I mean? Like it's very easy for children
35:50
to do that. And they don't even think about
35:52
it. These do it, it just feels
35:54
right. And then I think as you get
35:57
older like obviously your experiences in your childhood
35:59
kind of inevitable. Effects later in life.
36:03
I mean, we know that everything that happens in your childhood
36:06
is is going to affect For Better or Worse your future, but then
36:13
other things as well as you get older can store or change the
36:16
way you are and can make it for instance, more difficult for you
36:20
to show affection or empathy or love or whatever the case may
36:24
be. But my, I guess my point is that
36:29
that's something you can potentially.
36:31
Lose and I think also, you're gaining the ability to
36:39
understand these, you know, very intensely, sad feelings?
36:46
On behalf of other people, you know it's very easy obviously to
36:50
it to feel happiness or sadness based on what's going on in your
36:53
own life. But you've really got a kind of
36:57
Be able to tap into something, a bit deeper to feel for other
37:01
people to feel compassion and empathy and stuff.
37:04
You know, it sounds crazy but, you know, I had to learn to show
37:08
empathy. I wasn't always very good at
37:11
that and I'm still learning just like every other human being,
37:13
you know. But that's something I had to
37:17
learn to do. and what I understand about that is It's
37:25
more than just putting yourself in the place of that other
37:27
person. You have to kind of sit there.
37:30
Push yourself aside for a second and just be there with that
37:33
person and almost like let them in, you know, let them into your
37:37
space or create a space around them and then allow them to be
37:42
and then that's how you show empathy.
37:45
And obviously compassion is, you know, just being kind being
37:49
nice, you know, doing things for them and such, but all of that
37:52
is a process together to be there for that person, you know,
37:58
absolutely, yeah. You know.
38:00
Really quick. I'm sorry.
38:01
I got a quick plug my computer and I didn't show dying me, two
38:04
seconds. No worries.
38:06
I'll just I'll just keep talking because I don't want to have to
38:09
edit it is something I do. What happened.
38:13
We're good. You know.
38:16
Yeah. But yeah.
38:17
You know, along that same point. I feel like as as children, like
38:22
you said that's inherent, like, we have that as children already
38:26
and I think when we grow up in the type of Cultures that we do
38:31
that is just inherently beaten out of us, you know?
38:35
Yeah. Unless we do have some sort of a
38:37
practice to maintain it because when you're a child you're
38:41
closer to these types of things. Then, you know, then you are
38:45
when you're an adult obviously because, you know, you have the
38:49
job market, you have all of these things that dictate what
38:53
we have to do to be like, prosperous within our culture,
38:58
and those things don't promote Compassion and love.
39:02
Yeah, yeah, we're singing from the same.
39:04
Hymn sheet house. I was just going to add on top
39:06
of that. That, you know, they force you
39:09
to be competitive. They force you to be selfish,
39:14
you know? Your people will say like our
39:20
don't be selfish think of others, be there for others but
39:23
when you look at everything that you do in life unless you're
39:26
literally doing a roll or working in a space where you are
39:29
actively helping people or working in a team that works
39:32
together a lot of the time. It's like Doggy Dogg.
39:36
It's the classic you know. Like for instance let's say you
39:39
work in sales or something like that.
39:42
It's literally your job to be better than everyone else and if
39:47
you're not you get from The bus and you constantly have to prove
39:50
yourself and it's, that can be very brutal.
39:55
Yeah. I mean, when you get thrown
39:57
under the bus, like that experience, in itself is
40:00
something that trains you to further throw other people under
40:03
the bus because it trains you to be that way in order to prosper,
40:09
especially in the job market, nowadays.
40:11
It's just that's why I like these things.
40:14
That's why people have a hard time sometimes when they come
40:17
back from a mist. Kolak experience because they're
40:20
just sort of thrown back into this world of Doggy Dogg, and
40:23
it's hard to place compassion and love for everyone and
40:27
everything on an extreme level into that sort of framework.
40:32
I had a similar expand. I know my listeners and viewers
40:35
now, probably groans just like our God.
40:37
He's gonna talk about it again but yeah, so I lived in Europe
40:42
for a couple of years. I lived in the country called
40:45
Estonia and I had something akin to a Spiritual Awakening and
40:50
we'll keep it at that. If you want to listen to me,
40:52
talk about it more. Go check out other episodes.
40:55
Point is reason, I'm bringing it up, is that?
40:59
That was my I suppose shifting in reality and interestingly, it
41:07
felt much the same as what you're talking about with some
41:10
of these experiences coming out of taking heavy drugs.
41:14
Like it, I felt different. I felt different when I was
41:17
there. I mean it was a different
41:18
country. Three different lifestyle,
41:20
right? But it's Tony as a country
41:22
that's like there's a lot of forests, there's a lot of farm
41:25
lands I've worked on farms. I was on farms at some point.
41:28
So I spent a lot of time in the countryside away from it all
41:31
even in the cities. You know I still feel very
41:34
disconnected from the world in a strange kind of way, because so
41:38
much of it is rural and you feel very isolated and it's strange,
41:43
it's very strange and I think a lot of that came was because I
41:47
was just away from from the K for so long.
41:49
And I think on a deeper level, everyone has like a connection
41:56
to their Homeland to some extent when you're away from your
41:59
Homeland for a long time. I feel like a part of you is not
42:05
with you. Like I always felt like a part
42:07
of me was away in the UK. I wasn't, you know, and then I
42:09
came back and here's the thing like and I don't think I've ever
42:12
actually spoken about this before but when I came back I
42:17
was very like My spiritual happiest.
42:22
Kind of thing, you know. But it was what you're talking
42:25
about. I felt very kind of like, well,
42:28
what's the point of all of this like, oh, okay, I got to get a
42:31
job and all that. And, you know, it's not like I
42:33
didn't have jobs when I was there but I stopped kind of
42:37
caring about like I need, you know, lots of money and I need
42:41
to, you know, get really successful career and getting
42:44
the career ladder. Like I just didn't care about
42:47
any of that stuff. And you know, It wasn't that
42:49
many years prior that I'd been to University and studied
42:54
marketing and business and all that, you know?
42:56
And I still have that. As part of me, I'm still always
42:59
going to have an interest in business and everything like
43:02
that, but I see it differently now.
43:04
I try to look at things as like, what value can I create, how can
43:08
I, how can I be successful? And the people around me be
43:13
successful as well, I guess I find myself being excited for
43:17
the success of others. As you know, that it used to be.
43:20
That I would just sit there and just be, like, everyone
43:23
successful with me. And don't get me wrong.
43:25
I still sometimes have those moments, but for the most part,
43:29
I find myself very genuinely happy for other people that I
43:33
know, and I celebrate their successes.
43:35
And I think that can only come from having an experience like
43:39
that or something similar where you have kind of a, this the
43:45
sense of self is destroyed a little bit and it makes question
43:49
these things, you know, like I thought about the idea of Being
43:54
rich having a lot of money, it would make life easier.
44:00
I know that it will allow me to do the things that I want to do.
44:05
but, The thing that's truly going to make me, happy is being
44:10
able to do all of these things that I love to do for a living.
44:17
And then, hopefully, those things can also help people.
44:21
Like, that's a thing as well. I could easily want easily, but
44:25
I could say I was successful and I got the things that I wanted
44:28
to get, right? It's kind of pointless.
44:30
If it doesn't help anyone, you know, and it's the same way,
44:34
it's like, okay. Let's say you become rich and
44:36
successful. Something right?
44:38
What's the point? If you've got no one to share it
44:39
with like it's just there's no point, you know?
44:42
It's just like it sometimes I'll do that now.
44:45
Like, I don't know. Like maybe order a takeaway and
44:50
I share the housemaid and they're like why would you give
44:52
this for free? And I'm like, because it's
44:53
better when it's shared, it's just more enjoyable.
44:57
You know, all in all, enjoy it more as well.
44:58
It's almost like it's almost like a selfish thing as well
45:01
like, you know, when I when I used to do volunteering You'd
45:07
have the same thing. People would question you'd be
45:09
at. What?
45:09
Why are you? Why you use your time?
45:11
Like, do you get paid? No.
45:12
Well, what you doing it for and it's a two-way thing.
45:16
You want to help other people and you want to Feel good about
45:21
yourself, you want to feel good in the sense that you're giving
45:24
something to the world, creating value.
45:27
Not just taking from it, I suppose.
45:30
Yeah, it sort of like I was saying earlier, it's, you're
45:32
saying the exact same thing. It's like, it's working on
45:35
yourself through service to others.
45:38
Right? And that, you know, that's why
45:40
people, you know, say like, you know, don't be selfish like be
45:43
selfless, but it's impossible because it feels good when you
45:47
do something selfless. That's selfish, you know, like
45:51
the the feeling that you get from helping people technically
45:54
should be considered a selfish because it's, it's a great
45:57
feeling. It's I've heard believe was
46:01
already Marcus on one of his podcasts, he was talking to
46:04
somebody and he said there's no drug more potent than service to
46:09
others if done correctly and I think that's a true statement.
46:14
I also believe that you have to be selfish to be selfless.
46:19
I agree. yeah, like it's that sort of thing, I like How can
46:24
you expect to bring happiness into the lives of others, if
46:26
you're not happy? You know?
46:29
I mean now of people, I've met over the years who are
46:32
wonderful, and so unbelievably selfless, but they're suffering,
46:37
they're not happy, they're not getting what they want.
46:40
Or they're putting themselves to one side for years and years and
46:44
years and that catches up with you and you're going to have a
46:47
breakdown. Like, you gotta put yourself
46:48
number one because everyone in your life will benefit as a
46:53
result. What that like, obviously.
46:56
What I mean by that is you've got to take care of yourself and
47:01
that's everything from your health, your mental health, you
47:05
know, your career. Like I think like Is very easy
47:09
to sell a car while. I put myself my career in
47:12
everything and my own interests aside for the people I love and
47:14
it's like yeah. But sooner or later there's
47:19
going to come a point where you're not going to feel
47:21
fulfilled. And I think that's such a big
47:23
aspect of Being Human isn't like.
47:25
Let's be real like none of us know why we're here or what's
47:28
the point of? You know?
47:29
There's probably no point to any of this but we still have we
47:32
desire that sense of purpose, we have to create a sense of
47:36
purpose or We'll get crazy. That's just how it is.
47:42
And I think what better purpose than to be the best that you can
47:46
be and help others be the best that they can be.
47:49
Yeah. And you can take that even a
47:51
step further. When, you know, when you realize
47:54
that you aren't just you that you are everyone, you know.
47:58
So when you are contributing to society or contributing to even
48:03
just your family, you know what, I what I try to do is not to
48:07
look at it in two broad. God of a way just to, you know,
48:10
like the immediate people around me, you know, instead of like
48:14
when someone needs help with something, if your initial
48:17
reaction is to say great, now I have to get up and I have to go
48:21
do this or, you know, I don't feel like spending my time in
48:23
that way, you know, if you buy past that initial reaction
48:28
because a lot of this, this way of thought is not being
48:31
reactionary, it's being more like action Airy.
48:34
So if that's a word, so instead of having that initial Your
48:38
reaction to it, you can think to yourself, okay?
48:41
Like like, essentially, what's the compassionate thing to do,
48:45
and you just do that, you know, but there is a fine line between
48:50
like, giving too much of yourself to people who like
48:55
drain, you know, your self worth and your compassion from you.
48:59
And that's where, you know, when you realize that you are not
49:03
just you like you are everyone and everything around you and
49:07
everyone. One is this giant interconnected
49:10
form of emotion that you have to maintain and control and if you
49:15
do that correctly and you do that efficiently, according to
49:17
how you feel inside yourself, and what your intuition is
49:20
telling you, then you can start to create like a joyous
49:24
environment for you and everyone around you because you'll see
49:27
that when you start to do these types of things, everything and
49:30
everyone around, you will brighten and people will
49:33
gravitate towards you. You know?
49:35
I've seen this happen plenty of times through, you know, My life
49:39
and you know myself included. Yeah, I wondered about that
49:43
because in your personal life, this is something that you've
49:46
told me by the way. It's not something I found out
49:48
in a creepy way. You have a fiancé that you've
49:52
been with for 15 years. Yeah.
49:55
And then I mean the main question I wanted to ask you as,
49:58
dude. What's the secret?
49:59
Like, please let us know. But also like, yeah, like how
50:04
has Spirituality and everything you've learnt from psychedelics
50:10
and everything in between that actually benefited that
50:13
relationship and other relationships that you have
50:17
immensely. So at a certain point in time,
50:22
like right before, and as I was getting into these types of
50:25
things, now my fiance and I had been together.
50:28
We've been together since 2007 and we've had, you know, plenty
50:32
of ups and downs. I mean many, many ups, and
50:35
downs. And When I started to go down
50:38
this path, we were sort of we were beginning to separate like
50:44
not officially but we were beginning to sort of go down
50:47
separate paths and both of those pads mine and hers were - oh so
50:54
to speak. They were there.
50:54
Just there were bad paths. It was, you know, going out and
50:57
drinking and you know, meeting other people and they just doing
51:02
doing things that were not beneficial to our relationship
51:05
or to our Ourselves. And at a certain point, I
51:10
started to do psychedelics and I was having these realizations
51:15
that. Wow, like what I'm doing is not
51:18
conducive to a healthy relationship with anyone in my
51:21
life, especially the most important person in my life, you
51:24
know? And we were at a point where we
51:27
were pretty much about to call it quits because it's just what
51:30
we just weren't on the same wavelength, you know, because
51:33
when you know, when you're together from seven, He not up,
51:37
you know, you're going through these, these certain stages of
51:40
your life where you are transforming and it's so
51:44
important to transform together, rather than transform
51:47
separately. Because if you transform
51:49
separately, you're just going to grow in those particular
51:52
directions apart. So, that's what we were doing.
51:54
We were kind of growing apart and I remember there was a point
51:59
in time where we had gone through something very
52:01
tumultuous. And I had said to her, listen
52:03
like if you still feel that you You have love for me and you
52:07
want to continue this relationship and we want to move
52:10
on from here and and reconnect. Then I pointed to my safe, I had
52:14
a safe. I said there's a bunch of
52:16
mushrooms in that safe and I said let's do this together and
52:20
she said she said all right you know it's like a last-ditch
52:22
effort. She'd never done it before and
52:24
and she was like okay let's do it so she don't fit.
52:29
Did she not supposed to be like hey dude priorities like what?
52:34
Like yeah, that we're about to break up.
52:36
So let's take drugs like what but it was it was such a
52:40
last-ditch thing, you know? And it was under such desperate
52:44
times that it was something that she was like, okay, alright
52:47
let's try it, if it can do what you are claiming it can do, then
52:51
might be worth it and of course, in the back of my mind, I'm
52:53
like, oh shit, like I really hope this works, you know.
52:56
I hope I'm not just like bullshitting here and I hope
52:58
this works. So yeah, I mean we did it.
53:03
We took a fairly Early high dose together as well.
53:08
And it was miraculous. I mean we connected on a level,
53:14
we had never thought possible. It opened up our hearts to be
53:20
able to have like a conversation that we that our egos wouldn't
53:23
allow us to have and we reconnected on a level that just
53:29
I mean our relationship has been soaring ever since then and
53:34
we've done psychedelics together you know.
53:36
A few times. And it's, I mean, She will even
53:42
credit mushrooms as saving our relationship and like I can say,
53:46
yeah, you know, but we put in the necessary work after the
53:50
Psychedelic experience to really solidify the relationship.
53:55
But yeah, the like the the Catalyst of our healing was that
53:59
mushroom trip together. But change like I, I still, I'm
54:04
still a lost a bit of a loss here because it's like I
54:07
understand what you said about, you know, improve connection and
54:10
it's made it. Possible for you to kind of put
54:12
aside all the BS, and just focus on that.
54:15
But what what fundamental things changed that have allowed it to
54:20
be a successful relationship? Now, one, another big
54:24
fundamental change, was the spirituality part of it, right?
54:30
We have that now that we can share together and the
54:33
spirituality part of it is, it's what informs every decision that
54:38
at least me that I make in my whole life and Do for her as
54:42
well, you know, it's it's what we were talking about before.
54:45
It's the compassion, the love and when, when you don't have
54:48
those things, where when they were beaten out of you, as we
54:51
said they get beaten out of you throughout your life, and those
54:55
things come back, they begin to really inform how you act and
54:59
how you carry yourself in the world.
55:01
So we were able to connect on that level, as well as on a
55:04
level of. It's almost, I always like to
55:07
describe a psychedelic experience as it's like a
55:10
computer. Top, you know all your files are
55:13
all a complete mess and everything is all crazy.
55:16
And what the Psychedelic does? Is it free formats, everything
55:20
puts everything into nice little folders and prioritizes
55:22
everything perfectly for you. So, that now that you have this
55:26
priority change, the things that are important in your life and
55:30
the things that are unimportant in your life, they sort of make
55:33
some switches here and previous things that we thought were
55:36
important, like approval of others, like going out to bars
55:41
and You know, getting attention from people and things like
55:44
that, even alcohol consumption itself was just it dropped,
55:49
very, very low on that priority list.
55:51
So, just the, our day-to-day activities, the things that we
55:57
valued in each day changed completely and what Rose to the
56:01
top of that priority list was our relationship and each other
56:06
and the people around us and you know, becoming fulfilled, not
56:11
Sara Lee, just like a coat of paint happy, you know?
56:16
Because when you think of happiness you know you could
56:19
play a video game and be happy, you're smiling.
56:21
You're having a good time or you could, you know, drink and go
56:25
out and do whatever you want to do and you're, you know, you can
56:28
be happy doing those things and you can enjoy yourself but being
56:31
fulfilled became more important than just being happy.
56:36
And we understood that fulfillment came from each other
56:39
and we had this love in this connection.
56:41
That ran so deep that we were sort of putting on the back
56:47
burner for other things. And this brought it to the
56:50
Forefront as the most important thing.
56:52
And when you brought up like, what's the secret?
56:56
The secret is prioritizing each other as the number one priority
57:04
in your life, no matter what in any way.
57:07
And I mean anyway, so if a family We member you know, need
57:13
something or if you know you have a potential promotion in
57:17
your job where you can get more money or you know anything that
57:20
you would prioritize as like a big move in your life.
57:24
That is number two all of that stuff is 2 3 4 5 6.
57:28
Your relationship has to be number one and if it is then and
57:33
it's fueled by compassion and a proper priority list, then
57:38
you're set up for success in any way.
57:44
How how do you prevent because I've had the complete opposite.
57:49
I've heard people say, you know, like for instance fair enough
57:53
I've been single close to nearly five years now.
57:57
So out of the two of us Whose advice are going to take, but
58:01
one thing I know know you've worked harder like I can tell
58:06
it's that's not luck. That's that's understanding
58:10
that's, you know, learning lessons putting things to use as
58:14
Put a mean 15 years. Come on like you you've gone
58:16
through ups and downs, you keep working it, keep working and you
58:19
continue to work at it, you know, and I think that's true of
58:23
just anything in life. And one thing I think my luck
58:26
past couple of relationships have taught me, is that You
58:31
can't put yourself to one side for the relationship, but at the
58:36
same time, like, in my mind, the ideal relationship.
58:40
If I ever find one would be where we share a life together,
58:45
but we also have like our own goals and because their lives
58:50
are gonna be different. And if you're doing the exact
58:51
same things in life, they're going to be different.
58:53
But you can still support each other's visions and goals and
58:58
get each other there and be like a kind of a support network for
59:00
each. but what you're saying a little bit, I'm not saying it
59:05
goes against what I'm saying, but it does kind of imply that
59:08
like, Whether or no, the relationship is the most
59:11
important thing and your stuff is secondary.
59:13
And it's like, okay, well, under that line of thinking, how do
59:19
you prevent the relationship from getting in the way of, you
59:25
know, your individual things? So when both people's priority
59:31
list consists of number one, being the other person then
59:35
like, for me, for instance, like if she is my number one
59:39
priority, Already then what is important to her?
59:43
Her passions, the things that she wants to do, are they, like
59:48
they come with that? So I would never get in the way
59:51
of anything that would make her fulfilled and happy, because she
59:55
is my number one priority and vice versa.
59:57
If I want to do something in my life, like if I want to start a
1:00:00
podcast or if I want to do anything, you know, I have her
1:00:03
full support because I know that I am her number one priority.
1:00:08
So it's not as if like, You're putting yourself on the back
1:00:11
burner because it's such a two-way street that the other
1:00:15
person is also in the same position, you know, like you
1:00:18
like that the happiness of the other person and the Fulfillment
1:00:22
of the of your partner is fulfilling to you.
1:00:28
So, that's so it kind of works both ways.
1:00:31
I get that, I get that. I think is the reason I ask is
1:00:34
because there's this fear in my mind of being with someone And
1:00:40
then, you know, put say doing as you say, putting the
1:00:42
relationship first and then they take advantage of that and they
1:00:45
say, oh well you know you're not putting me first, you know, you
1:00:49
put in this is a job or thing that you're passionate about it.
1:00:53
You don't like for example, if I was with someone and they said
1:00:56
to me or it's me or this thing, you know, like, I'm going to be
1:01:00
like well, bye. See you like, you know, if you
1:01:02
really loved me, you wouldn't force me to choose.
1:01:05
I don't think anyone should ever make someone June.
1:01:07
And I mean, like, make someone Choose between like their dreams
1:01:11
and goals and aspirations in life and them because it's like
1:01:14
you don't live your life for another person, you know, I
1:01:17
totally agree. Yes, right percent.
1:01:20
It's not as if like you're you're sacrificing yourself for
1:01:24
them. It's that like you're both
1:01:27
sacrificing everything else for each other and it's not
1:01:32
necessarily like it's more inclusionary than anything you
1:01:36
know, because whatever makes that person happy makes Happy.
1:01:40
So if you see that person and they want to do something to
1:01:42
fulfill themselves, you'll never say to that person.
1:01:46
Oh, it's this or it's me. And I mean obviously these
1:01:51
things are very complicated and the reason I said I got lucky is
1:01:54
because, you know, my fiancé is she's just a beautiful person
1:01:58
and you know, for her to have the ability to learn and grow in
1:02:02
the same way that I have. That is why I consider myself
1:02:06
very lucky because it's not you know, wasn't just Me, it's not
1:02:10
like that. Oh, you know, I'm responsible
1:02:12
for saving our relationship because I gave her mushrooms,
1:02:15
and that was the Catalyst. It's that, you know, she had
1:02:18
this in her the whole time. It just had to be brought out
1:02:21
and I had it in me the whole time.
1:02:23
My just I'd brought it out of myself, you know.
1:02:26
Just a few weeks earlier, you know.
1:02:29
But yeah, it's really it's such a two-way street and and, you
1:02:34
know, all the credit in the world, you know, to her for for
1:02:36
stepping up to, you know, So Beautiful to hear.
1:02:42
Yep, Jeopardy kind of like general relationship tips for
1:02:45
people. I'm sure there's probably a lot
1:02:46
of people that will listen to this and be like, come on man,
1:02:49
tell us more, how do we fix this at?
1:02:50
What do we do? Like how do we keep the fire
1:02:53
alive or ignite the fire you know?
1:02:55
Like well what other tips could you give?
1:02:58
Oh man. Yeah it's tough.
1:02:59
I mean because every situation is so different and I think if
1:03:02
you can just fundamentally learn how to communicate your
1:03:07
feelings. Yes.
1:03:08
And also learn how to really hear somebody else when they
1:03:14
communicate their feelings and, you know, from a place of
1:03:17
compassion, not a place of insecurity.
1:03:20
Because previously in our relationship, it was everything
1:03:24
came from a place of insecurity as if we were going to lose each
1:03:28
other from you know with every turn.
1:03:30
And I know that a lot of people operate in that way where they
1:03:36
see something, they see everything Is a threat because
1:03:39
it's just so scared to lose it, right?
1:03:41
So I think part of it is, you know, part of really life, is,
1:03:46
is being willing to lose the things that you really care
1:03:49
about in order to in order to heal them.
1:03:54
Because most of the time when you have that fear that
1:03:58
insecurity of loss, it's coming from a place of ego and the
1:04:04
possibility or the probability that you will actually lose that
1:04:07
thing. NG is usually less than what
1:04:10
your like your mind is telling you.
1:04:13
So, I think that's a big thing to being vulnerable, allowing
1:04:17
yourself to open up and to really hear, you know, your
1:04:20
partner is just its key. And again, making making your
1:04:25
relationship the most important thing.
1:04:27
And you know, when you're in a relationship especially when
1:04:30
it's long term, you know you know what's good and what's bad,
1:04:34
what's healthy? What's prosperous, and what's
1:04:37
not for your own Patient ship because every circumstance could
1:04:41
be very specific and very different but yeah, I think
1:04:45
those are those are the main things to really keep in the
1:04:47
back of your mind and have them motivate your actions.
1:04:51
Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing.
1:04:54
Yeah, for sure. What's the best advice you've
1:04:58
ever received? Wow, the best advice I've ever
1:05:02
received. That's such a good question.
1:05:08
So the best advice I've ever received was from a mushroom
1:05:11
trip, of course, of course you can't, I can't say that it came
1:05:21
from another intelligence or if it came from just something
1:05:25
within me. But the best advice I had ever
1:05:30
received was understanding and knowing that there is Something.
1:05:38
That is beyond our understanding that humbles me totally
1:05:45
something that I can dedicate myself to that's larger than
1:05:49
myself. And it's not that it diminishes
1:05:53
me as a person, but it puts me in perspective, because in this
1:05:57
culture where we're taught that we have to have the best hair,
1:06:03
which you have beautiful hair. By the way, I wish I had your
1:06:05
hair. Thank you, sir.
1:06:06
We have to have the Asus car, the most money in our bank
1:06:10
account. You know, we have to have all
1:06:12
these things that that form this perfect image of a person.
1:06:16
And when you realize that, that's not really the thing that
1:06:22
you're supposed to go for and that there are larger and more
1:06:26
important, like, meta networks that are outside of what you
1:06:31
feel is like, the Ultimate Reality.
1:06:35
It's really, it's almost like the message of any Legion to,
1:06:38
you know, spirituality, whatever you want to call it.
1:06:42
God, you know that thing is going to to serve you if you
1:06:48
follow its path, if you follow it, like you were saying
1:06:51
earlier, it's like you get sort of these messages in your life
1:06:55
and from yourself. That's how you do this thing and
1:06:57
don't do that thing or another way to think of it as they're,
1:07:00
they're referred to as synchronicities when you used
1:07:03
synchronicities, random events in your life.
1:07:07
That seemed to connect. That is sort of an implication
1:07:10
that you were traveling down, like the correct path.
1:07:14
You know what I mean? I do.
1:07:17
And it's kind of freaking me out to be honest.
1:07:20
It's it is, it's it freaks you out, unless you can censor
1:07:23
yourself and sort of like just put it in perspective, that it's
1:07:27
okay, just because this is happening and because it's so
1:07:29
weird and so crazy doesn't make it bad, it actually makes it
1:07:33
good one of my poke poke cost guests the other day.
1:07:38
Who came on the show is deeply spiritual when different day in
1:07:42
a different way. But just yeah, and she had
1:07:47
turned around and she claims, I mean, she hates the word
1:07:50
psychic, but that's what she is. And she was saying to me like
1:07:56
Christian, this is like the right path.
1:07:59
You like the things you want are going to come to, you kind of
1:08:02
thing, like something big is coming kind of thing and I don't
1:08:08
know, like in my mind. I would love that.
1:08:13
I would love all of those things. but the same time it's
1:08:20
daunting as well and I almost feel like I don't deserve that
1:08:24
like that that's the sort of thing that happens to special
1:08:27
people like I'm not special you know that's how I feel a lot of
1:08:31
the time and You know, I keep looking at this this podcast
1:08:39
which there's a lot of other goals and things that I have in
1:08:42
my life that I want to achieve. Like, I'd left to do acting, I'd
1:08:46
love to do voice acting properly.
1:08:48
I'd love to, you know, finally record some of my music.
1:08:51
And I've said this, a million times on this show, but I can
1:08:57
honestly say this is probably the one thing in my life that I
1:09:00
can actually see the progression over time and other people have
1:09:04
said that as well. and, you know, I mentioned earlier like
1:09:10
I've had a lot of guests on the show and search and it's, it's
1:09:13
interesting to me, because My only kind of approach to this is
1:09:19
just the been to keep doing it. You know, like just just keep
1:09:23
trying and hopefully it'll get better and hopefully it will go
1:09:28
somewhere or something. And that kind of exposes the
1:09:33
main point of doing anything in life, isn't it?
1:09:35
It's like, you just, you start being not very good at something
1:09:40
and you keep doing it and you get better at it, but And this
1:09:44
is the point. I think there are certain things
1:09:47
that if you end up doing them, They're the things that you're
1:09:53
supposed to be doing, you know, there's been many things that
1:09:57
have been good at in life but they weren't the things that I
1:10:03
think I meant to do. Like I it sounds du Chien, Angie
1:10:07
and stuff but you know, I do kind of believe in that hole.
1:10:12
Coming to this planet to do what you were born to do.
1:10:15
Like I think there might actually be some truth to that.
1:10:18
And I think there's, you know, as I've said in previous
1:10:20
podcast, I think there are many different things we can do.
1:10:24
We don't just have to just do one.
1:10:25
There's many ways we can give to the world in a big way, in a
1:10:30
profound way. And I don't know, recent events,
1:10:37
recent people I've spoken to, it's given me hope and belief in
1:10:40
that, and it's starting to make me think, like, maybe if it is
1:10:45
happening. Yeah.
1:10:47
I mean, you talk about feeling undeserving and that is, it's
1:10:54
such a common feeling and I think one of the things that
1:10:57
that comes from is a view of the world, as Random unfoldings as
1:11:04
opposed to like you were saying like it does sort of seem like
1:11:08
there is like a quote-unquote set path and if you look at life
1:11:13
as not being pushed from behind and sort of there's some sort of
1:11:22
a tractor in the future that there's a set path that you were
1:11:27
going to take to an end to inevitably.
1:11:30
You know, get to that, attractor get to that point.
1:11:34
Because if you look back on your life, you know, they say
1:11:36
hindsight is 20/20, when you look back, everything seems like
1:11:39
it's it's going just according to a perfect plan, you know,
1:11:44
because if anything was different in any part of your
1:11:47
life, you wouldn't be the person that you are right now.
1:11:50
Like that butterfly effect, you know, if a butterfly flaps its
1:11:53
wings in a different way, you know, the whole world could be
1:11:55
different. So if everything in both of our
1:11:58
lives, Had not gone exactly as they did.
1:12:04
You know, we wouldn't be here speaking to each other right
1:12:06
now. And if you look at life as sort
1:12:09
of, you know, a journey to an ultimate attractor at the end,
1:12:14
you could sort of see where you can solidify each stage as
1:12:18
almost. I wouldn't say preordained but
1:12:22
it's almost like there is a path that we're going on and there's
1:12:26
something that's attracting us. And if we follow that thing,
1:12:29
He's going to be okay. This is some deep stuff, man.
1:12:35
I'm yeah. Wow, wow, yeah, just enough a
1:12:41
similar question to the one asked you before.
1:12:45
What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
1:12:48
And the biggest life lesson I've learned so far is probably to
1:12:51
carry myself with love and compassion in everything I do.
1:12:56
And, you know, that's that's toward everyone externally and
1:13:00
everything externally. And also myself, you know,
1:13:02
because even even in like a job market, you know, where you're
1:13:07
in a mean, like a competitive environment in like an office
1:13:10
setting, say, and if I conduct myself with love and compassion
1:13:14
in, even an office environment, where you wouldn't think any of
1:13:17
this stuff would Better people respond to that in such a
1:13:21
positive way people find themselves attracted to people
1:13:26
who, who emit light from them. You know, and you emit light
1:13:31
from yourself with love and compassion, not with anger, and
1:13:34
hate. So every day in every situation,
1:13:37
I'm in, I try my best. I'm not great at it all the
1:13:40
time, you know, I have a lot of work to do, but I just, I try my
1:13:44
best to carry myself with as much love and compassion, as I
1:13:47
can. In a real pleasure talking to
1:13:52
you Josh. Like I've really really enjoyed
1:13:54
it and I know our listeners are gonna absolutely love this
1:13:57
conversation. I think it's weird.
1:14:02
I said it's every once in a while, I have a show that Makes
1:14:06
me start thinking or that I particularly enjoy or you know
1:14:09
and I don't get me wrong, I enjoy every show but there are
1:14:12
some times certain conversations.
1:14:15
You have not just with things like this but just in life that
1:14:19
alter the way that you think or redefine the way that you think
1:14:23
or just present new ideas or you know, maybe even reaffirm what
1:14:27
you already believe. And this is definitely one of
1:14:29
them and I just wanted to say real heartfelt thank you for
1:14:32
that. Thank you for all the Just
1:14:35
wonderful advice and experiences you shared today and yeah, just
1:14:39
a big, thank you. Thank you.
1:14:41
Thank you so much for your kind words and thank you for being
1:14:44
receptive. To what I, you know I'm putting
1:14:46
out there and also I mean, you're a fantastic interviewer.
1:14:50
This has been well, thank you and just very enjoyable
1:14:53
conversation and I really appreciate you having me on and
1:14:57
I mean I'd love to do it again. Love to have you back on my
1:14:59
power cut my podcast to and yeah absolutely I will just say now.
1:15:04
Yeah. Yeah.
1:15:05
Always welcome on the show, would love to appear on your
1:15:07
show. Again, I'll just say that as
1:15:09
well, guys. Make sure you go and check out
1:15:11
the pursuit of infinity podcast. I really loved being on Josh's
1:15:16
show. The conversation was very
1:15:18
similar is bit different format but it was very similar.
1:15:23
And there are certain people, you click with sometimes and I
1:15:26
think it's like that. So yeah, thank you very much.
1:15:30
And to all the listeners of Christian re podcast, as always
1:15:34
be safe, If we well, and I'll see you in the next one.