Latest / Made of Stars / Kim Steadman from NASA's JPL

Transcript

Kim Steadman from NASA's JPL · Made of Stars

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  Speaker 1: Warning, the following podcast contains an entertaining look at astronomy, physics,
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  Speaker 1: and space news throughout the known universe. Listeners have been
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  Speaker 1: known to learn about astronomical phenomenon, the scientific method, and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: expand their vocabulary to include terms like quasar, asterism, and Uranus.
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  Speaker 1: Listen at your own risk.
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  Speaker 2: Go ahead.
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  Speaker 3: We're made of stars. Made of stars. Made of stars.
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  Speaker 3: We're made of stars. We really are. You could be.
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  Speaker 2: From Hollywood, New Mexico, or Mars.
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  Speaker 3: We're all made of stars.
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  Speaker 4: We are Made of Stars. I'm Wes Carroll, joined by
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  Speaker 4: my good friend, Executive Director at Columbus State University's Coca-Cola
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  Speaker 4: Space Science Center, Dr. Sean Kruzan. Sean, last week we
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  Speaker 4: had Trina Ray on as part of our DragonCon coverage,
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  Speaker 4: prepping for the convention coming up Labor Day weekend in
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  Speaker 4: downtown Atlanta. And before we could get off of the
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  Speaker 4: call with Trina, she said, you guys have to have
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  Speaker 4: Kim Stedman on. And we said, okay, well, we'll definitely
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  Speaker 4: try to have Kim Stedman on. And so here we
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  Speaker 4: are with Kim Stedman, systems engineer at NASA JPL, worked
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  Speaker 4: on multiple exploration missions, robotic exploration missions of the solar system.
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  Speaker 4: Kim Stedman. Kim, welcome to Made of Stars.
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  Speaker 1: Yay.
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  Speaker 5: Thank you. Thank you for having me. And thank you, Trina.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Given that endorsement a week ago. So one of the
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  Speaker 4: cool things about DragonCon that I love, and I know
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  Speaker 4: you're a longtime veteran of DragonCon, you were telling me
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  Speaker 4: a little while ago that you were there like towards
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  Speaker 4: the beginning. But the fact that over the course of
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  Speaker 4: the years of this convention growing so much, that now
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  Speaker 4: they include so much information. real science. And it's a
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  Speaker 4: cool component that you don't get at a lot of conventions.
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  Speaker 4: Normally you show up and it's maybe a corporate run convention.
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  Speaker 4: This is a fan run thing. So when fans say
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  Speaker 4: we want some actual scientists in the building, they do that.
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  Speaker 4: And they bring guys like you. We had Katie Coleman
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  Speaker 4: on a few years ago. So we'll see an astronaut there,
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  Speaker 4: somebody who's working Maybe as a consultant on a TV show,
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  Speaker 4: Star Trek often has consultants to try to keep the
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  Speaker 4: science on track. And then they bring in people like
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  Speaker 4: you and Trina and others to come in and talk
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  Speaker 4: about science. It's just one of the really cool things
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  Speaker 4: about DragonCon.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree. DragonCon, just the breadth of the topics
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  Speaker 5: that you can hear people talk about is incredible at DragonCon.
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  Speaker 4: And knowing that, you know, you can, and then the
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  Speaker 4: skeptic track that comes in as well. So you got
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  Speaker 4: the skeptics, you got the scientists, and then that just
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  Speaker 4: plays right into the science fiction. And we like to
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  Speaker 4: ask the scientists involved, like, was it science fiction that
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  Speaker 4: drew you to science or did science draw you to
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  Speaker 4: science fiction? And if it was science fiction that drew
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  Speaker 4: you in, you have any examples of something that you said,
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  Speaker 4: this is what I want to do as a career
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  Speaker 4: and it's because of some type of science fiction.
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  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I have a friend of mine who
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  Speaker 5: says that the gateway drug to a science or STEM
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  Speaker 5: career is science fiction. And so I grew up watching
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  Speaker 5: reruns of the original Star Trek series. And then in 1977,
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  Speaker 5: that little tiny movie came out called Star Wars. And
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  Speaker 5: that was it. I wanted to work on spacecraft and
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  Speaker 5: And so I went to Georgia Tech and got degrees
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  Speaker 5: in aerospace engineering and I wanted to work on spacecraft.
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  Speaker 5: And I've been lucky enough to work on operations for
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  Speaker 5: several different spacecraft. And it's just been a blessing.
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  Speaker 4: And you mentioned Star Trek. And I did a little
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  Speaker 4: bit of when we found out we were going to
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  Speaker 4: be talking with you, I did my diligence on doing
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  Speaker 4: some research and preparation for it. And I found a
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  Speaker 4: photo of you with Anson Mount. Oh, yeah. So I went, okay,
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  Speaker 4: so I know she's a Dragon Con. and probably also
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  Speaker 4: a Star Trek fan if you're taking a photo with
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  Speaker 4: Anson Mount. And he's back again this year. So do
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  Speaker 4: you plan to see him again this year?
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  Speaker 6: I saw that.
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  Speaker 5: I probably won't do the photo op again because that's
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  Speaker 5: a long line. It takes a long time. But I
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  Speaker 5: was thrilled to see him that year. And I also
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  Speaker 5: got his autograph. And several of them were there. And
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  Speaker 5: I don't know who else is going to be there
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  Speaker 5: this year.
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  Speaker 4: A lot of the Battlestar Galactica cast, which of course
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  Speaker 4: became like in its relaunch, people really embraced that show.
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  Speaker 4: And anytime they can get a large gathering of that cast,
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  Speaker 4: it's a nice attraction. But Star Trek will be represented
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  Speaker 4: really well this year. And a lot of the Smallville
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  Speaker 4: cast coming this year, which is kind of fun when
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  Speaker 4: you can get people that haven't really been there as much.
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  Speaker 4: And it's the 40th DragonCon, so it's also adding that
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  Speaker 4: extra element of trying to get some different guests there
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  Speaker 4: this year.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I know a few years ago they had the
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  Speaker 5: Wynonna Earp cast. I don't know if you ever saw
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  Speaker 5: that show. And those folks were amazing. So friendly, so wonderful.
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  Speaker 4: Some of them will be back again this year. So
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  Speaker 4: pretty exciting stuff as far as DragonCon goes. But I
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  Speaker 4: know we want to talk about the science side of
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  Speaker 4: this because you and others are going to be there.
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  Speaker 4: And some of the work that you've done, how much
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  Speaker 4: of it comes up from the folks that are there
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  Speaker 4: with the questions that they ask about specifics as far
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  Speaker 4: as what you do? Because I know a lot of
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  Speaker 4: the actors get the questions where it's like in episode
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  Speaker 4: 17 of season four and you were delivering this particular
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  Speaker 4: line and you had this look on your face. What
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  Speaker 4: were you thinking to get that look on your face?
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  Speaker 4: What kind of stuff do you guys get asked?
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  Speaker 5: We get asked a lot of technical questions. The folks
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  Speaker 5: that come to our talks, most of my talks are
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  Speaker 5: on the space track. And those folks, they know their stuff.
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  Speaker 5: And you get people from all walks of life. And
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  Speaker 5: so I get a lot of people from Georgia Tech,
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  Speaker 5: since it's so close by. And they have some really
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  Speaker 5: detailed technical questions. And some of them, you know, I
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  Speaker 5: don't memorize everything about the projects I work on. And
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  Speaker 5: so I've been asked specific questions about the specific impulse
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  Speaker 5: of an engine and stuff like that, just really in
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  Speaker 5: the details. And so it's impossible when you do a
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  Speaker 5: talk about like a mission, like let's talk about the
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  Speaker 5: Perseverance Rover. I can't answer every question that anybody can
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  Speaker 5: come up with about the Rover. So you just have
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  Speaker 5: to be comfortable with, knowing that there's going to be
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  Speaker 5: people in the audience that are smarter than you. And
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  Speaker 5: so you try and answer the questions as best you
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  Speaker 5: can and hopefully refer them to another expert if they
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  Speaker 5: have a really detailed question that they want the answer to.
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  Speaker 4: My preparation for that is in almost every situation, there's
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  Speaker 4: someone in the audience smarter than me. So I'm usually
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  Speaker 4: pretty comfortable in that scenario.
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  Speaker 5: Well, I am too at work. I tell people if
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  Speaker 5: I walk into the room and I'm the smartest one there,
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  Speaker 5: then I'm worried.
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  Speaker 2: Kim, we really appreciate you taking the opportunity to talk
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  Speaker 2: to us today. It's an opportunity for us. We thank
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  Speaker 2: you for that. And I'm going to not be about
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  Speaker 2: trying to ask you those kinds of questions that you
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  Speaker 2: don't want to answer or don't have the right. I
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  Speaker 2: want to ask you the kinds of questions that are
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  Speaker 2: friendly for you to answer. So I'm going to start
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  Speaker 2: with this one. So you've worked on multiple kinds of
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  Speaker 2: platforms from Cassini to Mars rovers. In other words, probes
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  Speaker 2: and orbiters and ground vehicles, all those kinds of things.
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  Speaker 2: What are some of the common challenges in designing and
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  Speaker 2: operating these kinds of spacecraft across those multiple different platforms?
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  Speaker 5: Well, I've been in operations a lot. I don't even
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  Speaker 5: know how long now. But they're always different, right? Every
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  Speaker 5: spacecraft seems to have its own personality and its own challenges.
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  Speaker 5: With Cassini, to turn the spacecraft, one of the ways
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  Speaker 5: we had to turn the spacecraft was reaction wheels. And
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  Speaker 5: we had four reaction wheels. It takes three to turn
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  Speaker 5: the spacecraft. And on the way to Saturn, one of
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  Speaker 5: the reaction wheels failed. And so we had to go
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  Speaker 5: to one of our backup, our only backup. And so
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  Speaker 5: then you spent the rest of that mission, you know,
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  Speaker 5: for over a decade, just trying to baby and monitor
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  Speaker 5: those reaction wheels to make sure that, you know, you
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  Speaker 5: could still turn the spacecraft without using propellants towards the
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  Speaker 5: end of that mission. And with the rovers, for Curiosity Rover,
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  Speaker 5: it was some of the areas that we drove in.
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  Speaker 5: We were on this area called the Nakla Plateau. And
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  Speaker 5: I don't think anybody really meant to ever take a
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  Speaker 5: rover there. And it was just a really challenging area.
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  Speaker 5: And so where we had been driving, you know, 50, 60,
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  Speaker 5: you know, 100 meters a day, suddenly we were making
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  Speaker 5: 5 to 10 meters every sol. That's what they call
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  Speaker 5: a day on Mars is a sol. And so that
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  Speaker 5: was very, very, you know, very difficult. We all had
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  Speaker 5: to have a lot of patience and we had to
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  Speaker 5: try things over and over. And then on the Perseverance rover,
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  Speaker 5: we had the protective cover on our Sherlock instrument fail
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  Speaker 5: and it failed unfortunately closed and we had to figure
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  Speaker 5: out how to open it. So, you never know. It's
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  Speaker 5: always trying to fix something when you are on earth
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  Speaker 5: and your spacecraft is either at Saturn or on Mars.
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  Speaker 5: And just, you have to try different things. And of course,
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  Speaker 5: like everybody on earth, when we have a problem, the
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  Speaker 5: first thing we do is turn it off and turn
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  Speaker 5: it back on. Um, So if an instrument is, you know,
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  Speaker 5: having issues, we'll turn it off, turn it back on,
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  Speaker 5: and then you just have to problem solve from there.
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  Speaker 5: So problem solving from a distance with very little information
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  Speaker 5: is the common theme for all of the spacecraft I've
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  Speaker 5: been on.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very good point. You know, we try
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  Speaker 2: to prepare our students for their next level experiences, whether
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  Speaker 2: that's graduate school or off into a career. And we
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  Speaker 2: often talk to them about that aspect, the problem solving.
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  Speaker 2: And when you're solving those problems, of course, you're working
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  Speaker 2: in teams. And that's another thing we try to communicate
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  Speaker 2: to our students that they need to be able to
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  Speaker 2: work with other people, know how to communicate with other people.
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  Speaker 2: Tell us about some of your teamwork experiences in solving
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  Speaker 2: some of these problems and What makes some teams better
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  Speaker 2: than others at being able to work through those difficulties?
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  Speaker 5: Well, I think the most important thing when you're a
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  Speaker 5: member on these teams, you listen to many things that
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  Speaker 5: you have to do, but you also have to listen.
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  Speaker 5: And you also need to be open to the idea
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  Speaker 5: that you're wrong. If you think you know how to
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  Speaker 5: solve it, you can put it out there. And then,
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  Speaker 5: you know, luckily we do have test beds. And so
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  Speaker 5: before we send something up to our spacecraft, we run
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  Speaker 5: it through test beds and And there are all different
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  Speaker 5: sorts of fidelities of our test beds. But when we
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  Speaker 5: have what we call tiger teams, if you've got a problem,
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  Speaker 5: make a little tiger team to go solve it on
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  Speaker 5: an anomaly response team. And so you get experts from
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  Speaker 5: each area and they represent that area and you all
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  Speaker 5: get together and work on problem solving and what you
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  Speaker 5: think the problem might be. And then everybody goes off
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  Speaker 5: and does individual work to try and track down the issues.
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  Speaker 5: And then we come back together and try and formulate
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  Speaker 5: a plan. So it's really communication. You have to communicate
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  Speaker 5: and you have to listen as well as talk. Put
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  Speaker 5: your ideas out there, listen to other people's ideas and
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  Speaker 5: be open to something that, oh, well, we've never tried
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  Speaker 5: that before. That's an interesting take on that. And you
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  Speaker 5: just have to be open to everything because you never
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  Speaker 5: know where the solution is going to come from.
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  Speaker 4: More made of stars right after this. I like your,
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  Speaker 4: when you mentioned about realizing that, you know, your solution
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  Speaker 4: may not be the one or you have to be
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  Speaker 4: open to other things. I remember doing a team building
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  Speaker 4: project at work once and the assignment was, you know,
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  Speaker 4: you're taking a ship to the moon and it had
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  Speaker 4: a list of things that you could take with you.
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  Speaker 4: And it said, what are the 10 most important things
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  Speaker 4: to take? And someone in my group said, a gun.
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  Speaker 4: And I said, that's the stupidest thing.
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  Speaker 3: I've ever heard.
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  Speaker 4: And then I don't think I did well on that
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  Speaker 4: particular team building thing because I thought, why are you
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  Speaker 4: taking a gun to the moon? And then they tried
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  Speaker 4: to move on from it. And the person who said
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  Speaker 4: it was really upset because of the way I responded
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  Speaker 4: to it. And then 10, 15 minutes later, I would
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  Speaker 4: just go, a gun on the moon?
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  Speaker 3: What are you doing?
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  Speaker 4: So, yeah, I can feel that, you know, you got
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  Speaker 4: to be open to the fact that maybe even though
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  Speaker 4: I know I was right, you have to be open
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  Speaker 4: to the fact that maybe you're not right.
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  Speaker 6: Well, yeah.
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  Speaker 5: And, you know, also when you're on a team like that,
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  Speaker 5: you have people of different backgrounds and different experiences. And
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  Speaker 5: so and that's essential. To have a good team, in
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  Speaker 5: my point of view, because then if someone has worked
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  Speaker 5: on different missions than I have, I mean, maybe we
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  Speaker 5: had the same exact problem on a different mission, but
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  Speaker 5: that doesn't mean the cost is the same. So having
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  Speaker 5: people with different backgrounds just makes problem solving a lot easier.
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  Speaker 3: It does.
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  Speaker 4: And it's essential, but not essential, a gun on the moon.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, no, I agree. I agree.
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  Speaker 4: And the reason was because what if there was an
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  Speaker 4: alien that came and you had to defend yourself?
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  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 4: And I said, yeah, that's just getting dumber and dumber. But,
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  Speaker 4: you know, that's me.
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  Speaker 2: Well, yes.
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  Speaker 5: It's certainly not something I would want to take to
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  Speaker 5: the moon.
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  Speaker 4: I'm thinking, how about we put water a little higher
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  Speaker 4: on the list? What about we take that?
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, some water, some air, some food.
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  Speaker 5: All the good things that people need. People are high maintenance.
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  Speaker 3: They are.
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  Speaker 4: They are. If you're fighting over the water and food,
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  Speaker 4: I guess maybe you need the gun, but that's another
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  Speaker 4: problem altogether.
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  Speaker 2: It's a little bit too much Hollywood exposure, I believe,
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  Speaker 2: on that particular one.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So let's get a little techie wonky here. Let's talk
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  Speaker 2: to us about the Sherlock instrument. Tell us what it does.
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  Speaker 2: How's it working? And what would be the kind of
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  Speaker 2: holy grail discovery from Sherlock on Mars that would just
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  Speaker 2: make you just super excited to have been part of
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  Speaker 2: that team? I know you are already.
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  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, I'm already. It's one of the best jobs
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  Speaker 5: I ever had. I learned so much because up until
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  Speaker 5: I joined the Sherlock team, I was always just, well,
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: I was a science systems engineer or systems engineer and
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: our science planner. And so I was always working with
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: the instrument teams to make sure that we got their science,
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  Speaker 5: you know, that their observations or activities executed on the
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: spacecraft when they're supposed to and how they were supposed
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  Speaker 5: to and And just trying to keep those instruments safe
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  Speaker 5: and happy and get all that science back. But when
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  Speaker 5: I joined the Sherlock team, I was actually on an
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  Speaker 5: instrument team. And then I quickly learned why sometimes it
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: took the instrument teams a few days to get back
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  Speaker 5: to us when we requested information or something from them.
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  Speaker 5: It's because most of the instrument teams are very small.
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  Speaker 5: And all the scientists working on these instrument teams are
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  Speaker 5: usually working on other instrument teams on other spacecraft or spacecraft.
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  Speaker 5: they're teaching classes or they're doing something else. They're doing
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  Speaker 5: some research. I mean, they're very, very busy people. And
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  Speaker 5: so I was like, yeah, now I have a lot
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  Speaker 5: more empathy and I have a lot more patience when
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  Speaker 5: I work with the science instruments. And, um, but it's
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  Speaker 5: funny you ask about what Sherlock could find even before, well,
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: before I left JPL, I'm not actually at the jet
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: propulsion laboratory anymore. I'm over here on the East coast nowadays. Um,
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  Speaker 5: I'm working on a mission called Dragonfly. But before I left,
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  Speaker 5: Sherlock had had an amazing discovery. We were looking for,
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  Speaker 5: you know, bio signatures, something that a change in a
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  Speaker 5: rock that could only be caused by some kind of
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  Speaker 5: life form causing it. And the, the, biggest discovery i
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  Speaker 5: think from uh the perseverance rover so far happened before
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  Speaker 5: i left and and sherlock found you know pretty much
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  Speaker 5: we can't really say that it's exactly that but it
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  Speaker 5: was pretty darn close and they have ruled out the
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  Speaker 5: change in the rock that sherlock saw and pixel also
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  Speaker 5: so you always have instruments working together and so pixel
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  Speaker 5: was another instrument on the arm of the perseverance rover
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  Speaker 5: so pixel and sherlock and i don't even remember what
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  Speaker 5: this uh every, every drill spot or where we do science,
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  Speaker 5: this was, it has a name and I forget the
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  Speaker 5: name of this one, but that's exactly what Sherlock and
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  Speaker 5: pixel found was something that there was no other explanation yet.
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  Speaker 5: And I haven't revisited that. So I haven't seen any
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  Speaker 5: more press releases come out about that, but that happened
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  Speaker 5: shortly before I left. And so I think Sherlock did
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  Speaker 5: exactly what it was supposed to do at, found organic
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  Speaker 5: material it's you know and the thing about it i
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: told you that the the um cover broke and so
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  Speaker 5: we spent oh my gosh six eight months getting that
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  Speaker 5: cover open and this uh amazing discovery they made happened
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  Speaker 5: on the first time that it was we were reusing
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  Speaker 5: sherlock again for science because we had tested it um
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  Speaker 5: the cover not opening was a problem because you can't
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: shoot your uh your spectroscopy or laser through a cover.
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: And we got the cover open, but the Roman spectrometry
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: that that instrument does, it also has to be in focus.
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: So you take an image of the abraded patch and
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: it has to be in focus and you only get
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: your best clients and your, you're really good results if
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: that's in focus, but the focus mechanism, the focus mechanism
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: was tied to that cover. And so they lost the
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: focus mechanism. So what they had to do was sort
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: of figure out the prescription lens for Sherlock at what
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: distance from a rock do you have to hold it
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: exactly so that you will be in focus and get
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: your science. And so they had spent probably about a month, um,
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: testing that on the ground and then up on the
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: rover to figure out exactly how far away the instrument
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: had to be. And we're talking, you know, millimeters distance.
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: And so the rover planners, the folks that actually command
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: the arm, had to be very extremely precise when they
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: put the arm down close to the rock surface. that
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: Sherlock would actually get their science. I mean, that's the
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: teamwork is you've got the rover planners working with the
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: instrument team to figure out how you can actually do
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: science again, because you don't want to just write off
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: an instrument unless you really have to.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose there's always a balance between balancing the
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: safety of the vehicle, the safe operation, the engineering side
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: of things, and then also trying to acquire the science
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: because that's the whole reason you go in the first place.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: And that probably is a tricky task to work through
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: all those parameters on both sides of that equation.
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. So the name of that rock was Cheyava Falls.
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: So if people want to go look up, it's C-H-E-Y-A-V-A Falls.
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: That was the name of it. And that's where they,
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: Sherlock and Pixel, found a potential biosignature is what they're
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: calling it. And that was back in September 2025.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a story that I believe Wes and I
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: have featured here on Made of Stars podcast. We talked
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: a bit about that. That really is an amazing discovery,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: even if we, you know, still have to throw in
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the caveats of, well, it's maybe not Maybe not direct
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: evidence of life, but it's as close as we've come
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: so far.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: And it was groundbreaking. I mean, it's huge. And, you know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: being part of that team, I was no longer on
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: the Sherlock team at that point. But I was still
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: on the mission as what we call a tactical uplink lead.
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: And so I had really helped make sure that all
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: their testing, you know, made it up to the rover
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: and worked as we hoped.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is just, just the discovery of organics on, on,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: you know, these complex organics on Mars is an incredible discovery,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: as you say. So, and it, it, it could quite
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: possibly be that biosignature we've all been waiting for.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: So, uh, you know, it'll, it'll be interesting to see
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: what NASA's next steps are to go up and, and to,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: you know, verify that, that, uh, experiment or to push
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: it across the line. But, but it's a super exciting, uh,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure you're very proud to be a part
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: of that team. And now, though, you're working with Dragonfly.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And Dragonfly may be one of the coolest missions that,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: you know, from our outsider perspective that we've seen designed.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And we are super excited about, you know, talking about
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: the possibilities of a drone flying in the atmosphere of
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: a world that we know there's all kinds of organics
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: and hydrocarbons in the atmosphere and on the surface of that.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: It's fine. There's a lot of chemistry going on at Titan. And, um, yeah, Cassini, uh,
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: one of the main reasons that Cassini spacecraft was sent
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: to the Saturnian system was to study the moon Titan
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: because Voyager had gone by and gotten some information, but
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: a lot of pictures of an orange ball. So, uh,
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: Cassini with the Huygens probe, you know, Huygens, uh, built
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: by the European space agency, Cassini released the Huygens probe
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: and actually landed on Titan. So that's the only, uh,
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: Titan data we have from the surface.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: And that, of course, that mission was incredibly fruitful. It
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: kind of changed our view of that whole world, didn't it?
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah. If you go back and you look at
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: what people thought Titan would look like before we got
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: there and what it really looked like, you know, they
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: were right about many things, but they were wrong about
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: a lot, too. And so it was just, I mean,
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: the Cassini mission was just one of the most amazing
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: missions ever built, ever operated. I'm so thankful that I
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: got to work on that mission. And I was a
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: science planner for a while on that mission. I did
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: several different roles. But when I was a science planner,
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: I did a lot of the science integration, integrating the
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: science activities for Titan flybys. And so I knew a
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: lot about Titan from that. And when I heard about Dragonfly,
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: I was like, that is the most audacious thing I
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: have ever heard of. I have to work on that mission.
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: And so I bided my time until they were actually
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: hiring people that, you know, figure out how to do
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: the operations. And, and I applied and they, they actually
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: hired me. And I, I moved all the way across
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: the country.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: More made of stars right after this.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're excited that you're working on the mission. Tell
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: us more about your role. So what are some of
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: the specifics of what you're working on with the Dragonfly mission?
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: So mostly what I'm doing with Dragonfly is working with
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: the instrument teams and figuring out how we're going to
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: operate the instrument teams, the instruments when we get to Titan,
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: and also how we're going to test the instruments because
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: we're currently building Dragonfly right now. And so I'm working
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: with the instrument teams to get the commands and everything
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: so that we can actually build products command products like
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: we're going to do when we get to Titan on
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: the ground here and then send them over to a
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: different building where Dragonfly is sitting right now being integrated
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: and tested. And so that's one of my main jobs
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: and figuring out and helping with the science operations. Scientists
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: have to have a structure on how the mission is
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: going to make science-based decisions, how they're going to decide
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: what they're going to do.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: So on.
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: Mars, it's a fall is a day. A Titan day,
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: you know, the Mars day is just a few minutes
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: longer than our day, but a day on Titan is
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: 16 Earth days. And so we're calling that a Titan fall.
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: So it's actually, you know, eight, we have to command
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: for eight days until our dragonfly goes to sleep for
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: about eight days because once, you know, you can't see Earth,
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: we can't, you know, once she's in the dark, we're
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: just going to let her sleep. But so that's what
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: I'm figuring out how to do is, How are the
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: instrument teams going to give us their data or their commands?
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: And how do we turn that into a product that
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: will go to Dragonfly and actually tell her what to do?
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: And how are we going to respond? Because, you know,
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: the Mars rovers have all those orbiters. They have all
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: the orbiters. So they send most of their science through
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: the Mars orbiters. And we can command, you know, straight
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: to the rover. But if we, for some reason, the
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: rover is occluded, like the rover can't see Earth, because
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: she's too close to some big thing, then we can
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: always send commands to the orbiters, and then they send
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: the commands down to the rover. And it's like, what,
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: 10 minutes of that round trip between here, or one
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: way between here and Mars. But Dragonfly is going to
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: be sitting on Titan. The one-way lifetime between here and
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: Saturn is an hour and a half. And so that's
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: a long way. And there are no... There are no
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: Titan orbiters, so everything that we send to Dragonfly is
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: going to have to be direct to Dragonfly and all
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: the science data. Instead of sending it to an orbiter
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: that's kind of close by, she has to send all
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: of her science data back to Earth. And so that's
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: a lot of power. It takes a lot less power
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: to send a signal up to an orbiter that's right
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: above your head than to send it all the way
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: an hour and a half back to Earth. So we're
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: trying to figure out how we're going to do all
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: that and wonderful stuff like that.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: It's fascinating for us to hear, you know, all the
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: things that have to be broken down, have to be
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: thought about, all the logistics that have to be mapped
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: out for one of these missions to be successful. And
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: I know that's at the heart of what you enjoy
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: doing is unraveling all of those mysteries and trying to
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: figure out how to accomplish all those tasks. Some of
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: our students here at Columbus State University, they're really fascinated
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: by by these kinds of challenges. They want to go
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: into a career that's similar to yours. And we try
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: to ask everybody who comes on, what is your best
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: advice for our students who are listening to this podcast
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: to say, okay, I know everybody's origin story and career
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: path is just a little bit different, but given your perspective,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: what would you say are some of the things the
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: students need to be thinking about now? And what kind
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: of advice can you give to them for trying to
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: pursue a career that's at least similar to yours in
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: the future?
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: Well, it is a fantastic time to be in the
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: space industry because there are so many startups. When I
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: came out of college, there was a big company, Lockheed, NASA,
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: and just a few others. But now there's startups everywhere.
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: And there's so much opportunity as a young person to
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: go to some of these smaller companies and do stuff
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: much quicker.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: If you go to like A NASA, you might have
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: people ahead of you and you would do maybe a
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: smaller job. It doesn't always happen that way. But if
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: you go to one of these smaller startups, you just have,
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: I think, more opportunity to get in there and do
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: stuff quicker. And there's a lot of people, they talk
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: to me at DragonCon and they want to work for NASA.
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: And I think that's great. I love working at NASA's
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: Jet Propulsion Laboratory. I think NASA is amazing in every way.
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: And so I'm always going to be a big fan
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: of NASA. But I think if that's where you want
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: to be eventually, that's fantastic. But open your mind to
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: all the opportunities that are out there and seek out
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: all the opportunities. And it's always interesting to me about
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: a lot of times people want to be in five years.
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: They want to be in place X doing thing Y.
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: But along the way, you may think you might find
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: that that's not really what you want to do. And
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: this other thing, you know, has stolen your heart. And
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: so you just have to follow your heart and what
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: you really want to do and, uh, be open to
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: all the, uh, opportunities that are out there, even if
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: they're not exactly what you want to do. Everything is
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: a learning opportunity. And that can lead you to places
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: you never thought you could go.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: That is great advice. And when we started this conversation,
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: we talked about the gateway drug that is science fiction
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: to lead people into these careers. And you mentioned Star
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: Trek and Star Wars. I feel like now that we
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: have had some science, much more closely science-driven movies that
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: fall under this category, that I know like my sons,
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: both when they got to a certain age in middle school,
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: they were watching the Martian and that gets a lot
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: of kids excited about it. You get some kind of
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: theoretical things like interstellar that get people excited about all this.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: Are you able to, as a scientist, watch science fiction
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: and switch off that side of the brain and be
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: able to just appreciate even some of the bad science
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: that goes into some of the movies? And then also,
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: are you a little more excited to watch something that
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: does touch on the more accurate side of it?
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, it all depends if it's a good story.
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: If it's like, I love Project Hail Mary. I also
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: like The Martian, but what pulled me out of The
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: Martian is not a science inaccuracy. It's their representation of
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: the Jet Propulsion Laboratory was hilarious. And....
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: You know, I mean, all these people had offices with,
• 31:24
  Speaker 6: you know, walls. And the young guy had a sofa
• 31:28
  Speaker 6: in his office. And they all went to talk.
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: To the director of JPL. And they were all in
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: his office working a problem. Like, no, no, it was
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: cubicle world. I lived in cubicle world. I very rarely
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: ever had a walled office. And even if you were
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: in a high-level position, if you had a walled office,
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: that wasn't a very good one because people sitting outside
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: your office could hear even if the door was closed.
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: So it was much more high-tech and much fancier than
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: the Jet Propulsion Laboratory ever was.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: That's a great answer, and that's not what I was
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: expecting at all. So I love it. Sean and I
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: will sometimes, and like with my kids, I'm going back
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: and kind of getting them caught up on some movies
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: and with my 17-year-old. We watched Alien not too long ago.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: And I'm just, while I'm watching it, I'm going, I'd
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: forgotten about the flamethrowers on the ship. It's like, what
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: are we doing?
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Like, this is so dumb.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: And coming out of hibernation and immediately smoking cigarettes. And
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: I thought, what are we doing here? And that's just
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: coming from me. And I am not a scientist. I
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: just pretend to be one on a podcast. But that's
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: a great answer, though, as far as the representation of JPL.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: That's a really funny observation. We were talking about teams
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: and how teams work together. Do you think that JPL
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: may have functioned less efficiently if they had walled-in offices?
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Do you think it was a bit better, more collaborative
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: because you had cubicles? I'm just curious.
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: I don't know, but one thing for sure is you
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: didn't have a lot of secrets from the people around you.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: And Martian, when I went to see that, talk about
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: team building, I actually went. I was on the Curiosity
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: rover at the time, and there was like 20 of
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: us from that mission that went to see it together.
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: And so the poor people that were there watching the
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: movie with us, because we were guffawing and laughing at
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: all the JPL representation. And, you know, those other people
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: are like thinking, because we're right there in Pasadena. They're thinking, oh, well,
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: I had to come to this movie when the stupid
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: JPL people are here.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just gives them a little extra context.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: That's all, you know, a little extra interpretation.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: We feel fortunate they're in Caltech territory, JPL territory. in
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Pasadena where they get that kind of nuance when they
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: go to the motion pictures, you know?
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I think they, especially people that grew up there,
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: they're just used to the, the, you know, the interesting
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: JPL folks that wander around stuff.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Well, Kim, we're excited that you're going to be at
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: DragonCon again this year. Excited about the space track, the
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: science track, and the fact that DragonCon, as we've discussed,
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: has continued to move forward with this. And I guess,
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, the space side of it, I know has
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: kind of been part of the science, but I guess
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: if they kind of recently split it off and and
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: calling it the space track or has that been going
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: on for a while?
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: Oh, that's been going on for a while. Ever since
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: I've been doing talks, I think the year or two
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: before I went, they had the science and the space track.
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: I think it was just the science track maybe, but
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: then they split it off. And so, and they're right
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: next to each other over there in the Hilton. And
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: so there's the science track and then the space track
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: and then the skeptics track and they're all together over there. So,
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: so yeah. And I've also done talks on the robotics track,
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: which is at, whatever the Sheraton is now. I can't
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: remember the name of that place.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Is it now the Cortland?
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: Is that what it's called now?
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: The Cortland Grand.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: The Cortland Grand.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: Well, they've had some issues, I think with something on the,
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: in the, with the hotel this year, I think there's
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: been some issues with people having to be moved to
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: a different room or something with that. So I think
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: they've been working all those bugs out. So, There's always
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: something that comes up every year with a hotel, and
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: they always end up making it work, and it ends
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: up being a great convention no matter what they've got
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: going on behind the scenes.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, I agree 100%. I love coming there, and
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: this year I went to the total solar eclipse. And
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: so me and Trina are doing a talk about our
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: different eclipse experiences because I went to Iceland and she
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: went to Spain.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: The Iceland trip was one that my wife and I
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: had been planning, and then we at the last minute
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: couldn't go. But we did talk to Trina last week
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: about just kind of the visceral reaction to seeing total eclipse,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: being in the path of totality. And what are your
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: thoughts on that, both for yourself and then watching other people?
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: Oh, this was only my second total eclipse, and it's indescribable.
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: I mean, the emotions that sweep over you and the
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: changes of everything around you, it was unexpected. The first
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: time I went, it was unexpected. I just thought, oh,
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: this is going to look really cool. It's going to
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: be neat. And then I was 100% blown away. And
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: now I know why people spend the rest of their
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: life chasing eclipses. And so it was incredible. And we
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: got very lucky in Iceland because there was only a
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: 40% chance of having clear weather to see the eclipse.
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: And of course, that day, it was not clear. It
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: was overcast, extremely cloudy. And at first contact, it was raining.
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: And then a miracle occurred. And about, what, 10, 15
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: minutes before totality, there it was.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: And fantastic.
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: See, I'm getting choked up talking about it. It was incredible.
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: And we're on this peninsula in Iceland. There's tons of
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: people around. And when the eclipse poked through the clouds,
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: everybody was cheering like they were at a rock concert.
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: So it was amazing.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: It just really is because of the nature of what
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: it is, but then just the way it looks and
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: just all of the experiences that that go on during
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: that event, it really is like nothing else I've ever
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: seen in the sky. And I've seen some great things,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: you know, meteor storms, and I've seen Aurora Borealis, and
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: they're all wonderful, and people should try to see all
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: of those things. But the total solar eclipse... it's probably
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: at the top of the, of the pyramid for me personally.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: And we, we had a similar experience in Waco, Texas,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: where in 2024, where we were, we had gone to
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Waco with the forecast was looking a little rough, but
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: then just moments before totality, we got breaks in the
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: clouds and we were able to see it, photograph it.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: And I was with many people who had, it was
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: their first time seeing it. And so I like to
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: kind of turn a side eye and just see their
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: reactions because you know, it, it's fun for me to
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: just know that other people are experiencing something that's so
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: meaningful and so incredible. And then it's tied to astronomy.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: It's tied to space science and that's just fantastic. And,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: and I know you enjoy that with the, with the
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: tours that you were on as well.
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, no, it was, it was incredible. There's a
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: lot of people on our tour that was their first one.
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: And you know, when it goes dark and the birds,
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: you know, go back to their nest because they think
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: it's nighttime and the flowers around you close up. And, and, um,
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: it was just incredible. It's wherever you watch it at.
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: It's incredible, but we did get to do it. And,
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: you know, 50, 60 degree weather while the folks who
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: have any clouds over in Spain, I think we're in
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: 98 or a hundred degree weather. So there's good.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: And bad to both.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: Well, Kim, looking forward to seeing you at Dragon Con
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: and we appreciate your time on made of stars today.
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: Well, thank you. I appreciate you, too. So I hope
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: to see you guys there and have a great DragonCon.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: Trina Ray, Kim Stedman, a couple of good weeks, a
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: couple of good shows for us in the science world,
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: in the JPL, the former JPL world.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is why we do the collaborations
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: with you and your podcast, Wes, for DragonCon, because it
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: opens up opportunities. Now, having said that, we know science fiction,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: and we heard it again today, it's a huge influencer
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: in people going into science careers. So we already knew that.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: We already were coming from that perspective. But it's opened
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: up now some direct doors for us to be able
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: to interview top flight people in the space industry on
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: this podcast. And so that's been just a great collaboration.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: And Kim Steadman, another one. I love the advice that
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: both of these last two folks who work at JPL
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: have given for our students in terms of pursuing careers
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: and what to think about and what to be prepared for.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: But particularly today with Kim, it's like, hey, You know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: you've had it in your head. Yeah, I want to
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: work for NASA. I want to do... Well, space, the industry,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: is growing at such a fast pace and rate that
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: the industry itself is far exceeding NASA now. And she
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: mentioned all these startup companies. You know, SpaceX was a
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: startup company not very long ago. And when you and
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I were still doing this show on radio... There was like, hey,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: there's this company called SpaceX. This guy Elon Musk started up.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: He's apparently got some money too. Anyway, so now it's like, well, yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: there was a story that just came out this week, Wes,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: and we'll talk more about this next week on Vein
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: of Stars. But Elon Musk is looking to open up
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: a $ 100 billion spaceport on the coast of Louisiana, very
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: near New Orleans. And that's just a mere eight hours
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: drive from here, like where we sit in Columbus, Georgia,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: we are kind of at some vertex point between that
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: location that we just talked about, which also there's Stennis
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: and there's the Michaud facilities down there for NASA. But
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: then that's one point. Kennedy Space Center is another point.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: And the Marshall Space Flight Center is a third point.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: If you take those three points and draw a vertex
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: between New Orleans, Titusville, and Huntsville, guess where you land?
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: The Coca-Cola Space Science Center at Columbus State University. We're
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: right there at that vertex. And so this is a
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: great place for people to come, get excited about space
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: in general, but also to find out how to pursue
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: careers in science, engineering, and space technologies right here at
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Columbus State University. And I hope you ask those questions
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: when you come to visit us, friends. Anytime you're down
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: in the area, pop in, ask us about, hey, I
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: want a career in space. How do I pursue that?
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: We'll put you on the right track for doing that
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: and for your journey to start right here at Columbus
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: State University.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: Sean and I thank you for listening and we will
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: do this again next week. Overhead Door Company of Columbus
• 42:20
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