Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Stepping out of your comfort zone with Bernadette Chapman

Transcript

Stepping out of your comfort zone with Bernadette Chapman · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

0:00
Bernadette: You start to talk yourself out of it and the reason why is because
0:05
it's easier to stay where it's safe.
0:07
So our subconscious is telling us, don't do that thing because that's a bit scary.
0:12
So just stay where you are and it will be fine.
0:15
Just keep doing what you've always been doing.
0:17
We don't need to do anything different.
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And so because of that, that's why we're procrastinating.
0:24
Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business marketing expert,
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speaker and blogger, and you're listening to the Wedding Pros
0:29
Who Are Ready To Grow podcast.
0:32
I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life
0:35
examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
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If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
0:42
and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what you
0:46
love, then you're in the right place.
0:48
Let's get going with today's episode.
0:51
Today, I'm chatting with Bernadette Chapman.
0:54
This lady really knows weddings, having launched her wedding planning business
0:57
back in 2002 before social media.
1:00
And when very few people even had a website.
1:02
Over her 21 years in the industry, Bernadette has seen it all and
1:06
she's got many stories to tell.
1:08
In 2004, Bernadette launched the UK Alliance of Wedding Planners,
1:12
promoting professionalism across the industry and has been a spokesperson
1:15
for our industry ever since.
1:17
She is truly fabulous and I always love chatting to her.
1:20
Bernadette, welcome to the podcast.
1:22
Bernadette: Thank you.
1:23
I'm so excited to be here chatting with you, Becca.
1:25
Becca: It's a pleasure.
1:26
It's been a long time coming.
1:28
We were saying before I hit record, we've been back and forward about arranging this
1:31
podcast, but we finally found a time that we can both do, and it's great to be here.
1:35
So excited.
1:36
Now, I love that in your bio online, it talks about when you
1:39
first started your wedding planning business before the internet.
1:43
And I always get people to go back to the start of their journeys on this podcast.
1:46
So take me back to this time that can't even really remembered.
1:51
existed pre internet and starting a wedding business.
1:54
How did you end up doing that?
1:57
Bernadette: Yeah, I think so.
1:58
Back, back in the day when I was oh, so much younger, in my early
2:01
twenties, I worked for an American blue chip corporation, used to chat
2:06
with, you know, the PAs in America, and they would talk about their
2:10
weddings and having wedding planners.
2:12
At the time I was planning my wedding and being a planner, I'd already mapped
2:17
out having children and all of that.
2:19
And I thought I didn't want to go back to the city and it just
2:23
planted a little seed in my head.
2:25
And so I started doing as much research as I could, which actually
2:30
was a bit difficult because as you touched on, there were no websites
2:34
to look at, there were no training courses, there, there was nothing.
2:38
And in fact, I think all I did was subscribe to Martha Stewart's magazine and
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get it shipped to me from America because there was nowhere to buy it in the UK.
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So That kind of planted the seed and then when I was on maternity leave,
2:52
after I'd had my first son, he was six months old, that's when I launched.
2:56
So, which is kind of crazy when I think about it now, when I knew
3:00
nothing about the industry, but I put a website out there, And I remember
3:06
visiting a local wedding fair and it just was all really surreal.
3:12
I mean, you didn't know about any wedding planners.
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Back then it was hitched, so it was actually hitched that started
3:19
getting me introduced to other, other wedding planners very slowly.
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So yeah, it's, it's crazy to think about it now that, yeah, that the only
3:28
way ready to chat to people was either at a wedding fair or on a chat forum.
3:32
Becca: Yeah, it's, it's just crazy.
3:34
And I think, I actually love that you started your business before this,
3:39
because it means that you understand all the other ways to get business
3:42
that aren't just what people talk about now, which is just go on Instagram,
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just go on TikTok, go on social media.
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Actually, there's a whole load of other stuff you can do.
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I'm imagining you like flicking through the yellow pages,
3:52
looking for people to contact.
3:56
Bernadette: It's, but you know, you, you did.
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I mean, you know, with everything you did.
3:59
I mean, I.
4:00
I remember when county wedding magazines launched, you know, they
4:03
have all the regional magazines.
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So they started with an Essex wedding, and I found out they were going to
4:08
be at Lakeside Shopping Centre, which is a big shopping mall in Essex.
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And so I dragged my husband and young baby to Lakeside Shopping Centre.
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and pretty much pounced on the editor.
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I was like, hey, can I write for you?
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And I wrote for them for years until they stopped having, you
4:29
know, outside, outside writers.
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But that's what you did.
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You went out and you hustled and you got the business.
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You didn't just sit in your little home office with your beautiful website
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and your beautiful Instagram profile.
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And expect the business to come to you, you thought about how
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is it I can get those clients.
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See,
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Becca: so talk to me about that then because that's one of the struggles
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I think when people start any wedding business is getting those first clients.
4:59
They think, yeah, I'm going to start this business.
5:01
I'm going to be a planner or I'm going to be a florist, a cake maker.
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How did you get your first wedding planning clients?
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Bernadette: God, how did she find me?
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I still remember her name Natasha and Tom and so I launched my
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business in, at the end of 2002.
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They hired me maybe the very start of 2003 and they were getting married
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that year and I did everything.
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I'm trying to, they probably, Maybe it was just going on the search engines because
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there would have been no one else around.
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I mean, there would have been no one in Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk, I mean,
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pretty much I would have been it.
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And I remember meeting with her and saying to her, you know, I am new and I still
5:45
remember her saying to me, Well that's okay because you're going to do, you're
5:48
going to try even harder then aren't you?
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And she was absolutely right.
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But the funny thing about this wedding though, it was only afterwards that
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I realised okay this wasn't normal.
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Like she, because I didn't know this obviously, but I did everything.
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She wasn't interested in choosing her readings or her hymns, she wasn't
6:10
interested in choosing the flowers.
6:12
So I was in charge of everything.
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She, she didn't care.
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She didn't care.
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She hired me, just go and do it, Bernadette.
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And it was only on the wedding day I was thinking, why if she
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doesn't like what I've done?
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And it was only obviously later I realized, okay, that's not normal.
6:30
That's not normal.
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That's not normally what happens.
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A wedding couple will normally choose what they want.
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I'm just facilitating it.
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But actually my very first wedding I chose everything.
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That's brilliant.
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Becca: It's like you were on your own episode of Don't Tell the Bride where
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you were planning someone else's wedding without them knowing anything about it
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and hoping they liked it on the day.
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Bernadette: I mean, I've had a few like that.
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I've probably had two more like that and I always find it really strange.
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But, and the other thing that I always remember is at this wedding,
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again, I didn't really know how you were supposed to dress.
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And so I was dressed like a wedding guest, which was a mistake, because
7:11
people thought I was a wedding guest.
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I mean, I looked beautiful in my little lilac number.
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I still remember.
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I think lilac skirt, like a lilac lace top.
7:20
That was a mistake, but I remember, I remember insulting auntie, and
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I said, oh, you must be grandma.
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Because I was expecting grandma with a Like a walking stick, mobility, because
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we've been, I've been told about that.
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How dare you?
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I'm not grandma.
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I'm, I'm the auntie.
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And another thing, don't send invitations out to auntie and uncle.
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And I had to say to, I know you would normally do to Mr.
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and Mrs.
7:52
Andrew Smith, but the, the bride really wanted to do it to auntie.
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She hated me.
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She absolutely hated me.
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And that was my very first wedding.
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So my very first wedding, I had an auntie.
8:05
Who hated me and made sure that I knew it.
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Becca: I love that though, Bernadette, because it just is a
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reminder to everyone listening.
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Everyone starts somewhere, whether they are really well established, everyone
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has to have their first wedding.
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And what I really like from what you said is that bride's attitude, that
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actually being new isn't a bad thing.
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Being new means you'll try extra hard.
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And I think often there's this perception that In wedding planning and across the
8:29
industry that I'm never going to be ready.
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When can I possibly do my first wedding?
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People won't like the fact that I'm new.
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And I think that's a really fresh perspective to have.
8:38
Yes.
8:39
Bernadette: Yeah.
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I mean, as, as you know, Becca, you know, the second business I launched was the
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UK Alliance of Wedding Planners and I.
8:46
trained wedding planners, which again is crazy because I started training wedding
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planners when I still knew myself.
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But there was, there were lessons that I learned that I made sure my students
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knew and one, never assume it's, it's grandma because it might be auntie.
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And the second thing is, it's never going to be perfect.
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And if you wait for something to be perfect or for you to know
9:11
everything, it's never going to happen.
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And in fact, it doesn't matter what business you have.
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And I'm sure you've come across.
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People that take course after course and work with coach after coach, read
9:22
books, listen to podcasts, but they never implement what they've learned
9:27
and they never actually take action.
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And if you wait for something to be perfect before doing it,
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it's, you're never going to do it.
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I know people that Say they're going to be a wedding planner and I know
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they will never be a wedding planner because they're concentrating too
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much in learning everything first.
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Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
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Done is better than perfect every single time.
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There's no point being perfect if you don't ever do anything.
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So you mentioned there about the UK Alliance of Wedding Planners.
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It's what you have been most known for over the last, you know, years.
10:01
Yeah.
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Why did you start it?
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Where did that idea come from and what was your goals for it?
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Bernadette: Yeah, so I mentioned at the start how really the only way you
10:10
could chat to people was on hitched because social media wasn't around.
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So you would have a web directory.
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So there was hitched and I think confetti, that was the
10:20
very, pretty much the only ones.
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And they had chat forums.
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And so I would answer couples questions in these chat forums, but also I'd begun
10:30
to build up relationships with planners that were beginning to launch and so
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there was one planner We were chatting and we both used to get people contacting
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us to say One of two things one.
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I want to be a wedding planner.
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Can you tell me how to do it?
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That was one thing that was happening again and again, and we just kept giving
10:50
advice all the time And then the second thing that happened is I was having
10:55
wedding couples come to me in tears to say that they'd hired a wedding planner
11:00
and they hadn't turned up on the day, they'd given money, that money hadn't,
11:04
they hadn't booked the stationer, they hadn't booked the cake and so that
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was frustrating me because there was nothing to differentiate me from them.
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So really it's those two things were the catalyst and so that's
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why we, that's why we launched.
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It started with doing like a one day course.
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And then that one day course became a two day course and that two day course
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became, we launched another course.
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We had two two day courses and then loads of mini courses and a
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membership that completely thrived.
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We held really the first seminar for the wedding industry called
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Wedding Planning Excellence.
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This is way before coaches were a thing.
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It was way before any kind of workshops or seminars.
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There was nowhere ready for you to learn business for, for the wedding industry.
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There just wasn't.
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So, yeah, and I'm, I'm very proud of what we've done and I was chatting to
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some past members yesterday, actually, and They said how, how much of an impact
12:09
the Alliance has had on them personally, but also in terms of their business.
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And I'm very proud of everything that I achieved in the 19 years.
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Becca: And you absolutely should be.
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You were a leading light.
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You led the way in education and you set standards high.
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You, you made sure that people were getting the best and that they
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understood what being a planner was.
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Now, in your time, you've worked with a lot of planners over those 19 years.
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I'd love to know what are some of the common mistakes that you
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see planners making or have seen planners making over that time?
12:41
Bernadette: Okay.
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So I would say one of the common mistakes in recent years, has been putting too
12:47
much emphasis on what I call the pretty.
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So beautiful aesthetics, the most amazing website, you know, beautiful
12:53
images on their social media, but they don't actually have any
12:58
understanding of who they're targeting, where they sit in the market.
13:03
They don't know, they don't really know how to market.
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Now you are an exceptional marketer, you know all about marketing and we can't
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be expected to know everything, can we?
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And I get that.
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But I think, I think that is one issue that I see, is that they think
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that pretty images will bring them clients, and it doesn't work like that.
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And I think the, I think the, the other issue is, and I think
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this is a society thing, perhaps.
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And I'm not saying that you have to do a training course, but there definitely is
13:41
a difference in the quality of planners.
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who have taken careful consideration into their training.
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Now a training course doesn't make you suddenly an expert at that thing, but
13:54
what it did is like our courses taught the reality of wedding planning, of how
14:01
to price your services, what services to offer, you know, how to do a consultation.
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So we took them through everything, and that, it's not that that
14:10
made them an amazing planner, it took them on that journey.
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And as a result, honestly, Many of the top planners in the UK have come through that.
14:20
Not because of the Alliance, but because they took their education
14:27
seriously and implemented it.
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And I think that's, yeah.
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And it's, I don't want to come across as I'm saying that you have to do
14:35
a training course to be successful.
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You don't.
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I think it's the, it's more their mindset that they wanted
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to learn, but then implement.
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And then they flew.
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They just flew.
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Becca: Yeah.
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And it comes back to what we were saying earlier, really about being an action
14:50
taker, because often the people that do the best are the people that learn
14:54
and do as they learn, but also the people that are not afraid to get their
14:58
hands dirty and will go and get the experience or go and work in a venue.
15:03
Shadow a caterer or another planner.
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Bernadette: And, and actually that's a really good point.
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So it kind of leads on to what, what I said.
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I think, I guess social media has got a lot to answer for.
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Because the thing is, people will look at Pinterest and Instagram
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of other planners and there'll be, Oh my God, it looks amazing.
15:22
You know, that, and they feel that, that, that is really easy.
15:27
And they feel that that top planner has almost just like woken up one
15:30
day and gone, Oh, I'm the most best planner in the UK now, you know.
15:35
But they have the grit and determination and tenacity,
15:40
like I've seen them, them grow.
15:43
That didn't happen overnight.
15:45
You know, it, it, they did the stout shoots, they did the
15:49
shadowing for other planners.
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They did the on the date coordination.
15:53
They did the partial planning before they got the full planning.
15:57
They did the minimum fee for planning weddings until they were
16:01
getting the six figure weddings.
16:03
You know, it, it didn't happen overnight.
16:06
And I think that's the problem.
16:09
And I think that's not just in the wedding sector.
16:11
I think because you see, you see obviously the beautiful images and
16:14
you think it's possible instantly, but you also see the stories online of,
16:20
you know, make 100k in 24 hours and, you know, all those kind of things.
16:26
That I think it puts unrealistic expectations.
16:29
They think it's easy and no business is easy, is it?
16:33
And also, I mean, I could talk about this for hours, but you've got to realize
16:40
that you've got to adapt because business changes, recessions hit, pandemics hit.
16:45
Trends change and you've got to flow with it.
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Like, you know, Instagram is, is declining.
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And so all those people that were putting all that emphasis
16:55
on Instagram are now panicking.
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I was actually going to swear then.
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I don't normally swear, do I?
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But they are panicking because they're not too sure how to market themselves now.
17:07
Because that's what they did and it's not working for them.
17:10
Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
17:12
Hard work is, is often unseen but is so important.
17:15
And I think that's why I love doing this podcast and talking
17:18
to people about their stories and going right back to the beginning.
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Because I think from the outside people can look like an idiot.
17:24
overnight success, if that is such a thing, but actually what
17:27
they don't see is all of the steps on that journey to get there.
17:31
So if you're listening to this and you are new, it's not an impossible dream,
17:36
but equally you've got to put in the work, you've got to do the learning,
17:39
you've got to get the education, you've got to get the experience, build those
17:42
connections up and put in the hard work and down the line you'll look back on that
17:47
journey and realize how far you've come.
17:49
Bernadette: Yeah, and I think also, you know, the trouble is sometimes.
17:54
like say wedding planners, not just wedding planners, but say a new
17:57
wedding planner launches with that beautiful website and the beautiful,
18:00
you know, social media and everything.
18:02
And they've done a styled shoe.
18:05
And so, you know, the images of that, and they, they think they can charge What
18:11
the top planner is charging and and you know and part of me thinks well, yeah,
18:16
okay You know, you don't have to be cheap because you're new Absolutely, you don't
18:22
but they wonder why they're not getting the bookends Well, they're not getting
18:24
the bookends because you don't have the proof of it yet You, you gotta kind of
18:30
be in the trenches for a little bit.
18:32
Generally speaking, there's always exceptions to the rule, but yeah,
18:35
you've gotta, you gotta get rough and ready and dirty to build up to that.
18:40
So just having that luxurious website does not mean you're
18:44
instantly going to get those clients.
18:46
Becca: Yeah.
18:46
Really helpful reminder.
18:48
Now, one of the things that I know you're passionate about
18:51
talking about is onboarding.
18:53
And I think that leads nicely from what I talk about, because obviously I talk
18:56
about marketing, attracting the clients, closing the sale, and then I kind of let
19:01
people go off into the distance and do their own thing, but that's not my bag,
19:05
but actually that is a really important part of this business journey, although
19:10
often our clients will only use us once.
19:12
They'll recommend us onto their friends and we need to
19:14
give them the best experience.
19:15
So when you talk to planners about this, you know, they've
19:18
signed the contract, now what?
19:20
What are your biggest pieces of advice to make that smooth?
19:23
Bernadette: Yeah, I think first of all is recognizing that business is tougher.
19:28
So although it's easier in one way for wedding planners now because of websites,
19:33
because of social media and all of that.
19:36
On the other hand, it is harder because there is more competition.
19:39
And so you have to ensure that you are standing out.
19:42
So you're standing out through your touch points.
19:45
So ensuring that your, your messaging, which is obviously what, what you cover.
19:49
So your messaging, your brand identity and all of that stands out, but then
19:54
it's about that consistency throughout.
19:58
So let's assume someone wants to then work with you.
20:01
How do you create that journey?
20:03
You want to make a really good first impression of what it's
20:06
going to be like to work with you.
20:09
Instead of.
20:11
Like a hot mess, you know, you don't want them to suddenly regret Working with you.
20:16
You're supposed to make their life easier.
20:18
So the onboarding is Helping you create that first impression.
20:24
It's helping you set boundaries Which is so important because wedding planners
20:29
can have a tendency to Over deliver.
20:33
So if you set boundaries in that onboarding process
20:38
That makes it much smoother.
20:40
And, but also if you can automate part of that, it makes you look more professional.
20:46
It ensures that nothing is forgotten, but also it helps your profitability
20:51
because you can now spend your time attracting new clients and also
20:57
serving the clients that you have.
21:00
So it has so many benefits for you.
21:02
Because I think sometimes.
21:06
there can be sort of like a misconception that you just assume
21:09
that your client knows everything.
21:11
Use an example.
21:12
So in the wedding industry, we know that OOS means order of service.
21:19
You know, other people won't necessarily know that.
21:21
And I think we need to remember that we can't assume that they know.
21:25
We also can't assume that they're going to read the website where you've
21:28
answered all of those questions.
21:30
So in an onboarding process, you can, for example, pre schedule.
21:36
emails that is answering questions before they ask the questions.
21:41
So they're not bugging you in the nicest possible way.
21:44
But then they think, Oh, this is so amazing.
21:47
It's like, I don't even have to ask.
21:49
They've already answered it.
21:50
And that goes across the board, not just wedding planners, but all businesses.
21:54
If you can preempt what are normally asked beforehand and schedule those
21:59
emails, it'll make your life easier.
22:01
Becca: And I think as well in the world that we're living in, we're
22:04
used to getting answers immediately.
22:06
We're used to having systems that automate and that we can log into and
22:10
we can see our client portal and we're getting lazier as consumers because
22:14
everything is at our fingertips and therefore our clients are probably
22:18
going through the same thing with us.
22:20
They forget that it's just us running a business.
22:21
They think that we're one of the big Corporations they're
22:24
used to working with every day.
22:26
Bernadette: Yeah, and okay, I'm gonna liken this to, like, not connected to
22:29
the wedding industry, by the way, but as an example, recently I needed to hire a
22:34
carpenter, okay, to fit a couple doors in my home, and I hate the telephone.
22:39
I just don't like talking.
22:41
I actually love chatting on video, but I don't like talking on the phone.
22:45
And so put a shout out in my local Facebook group, a social media manager
22:51
who works with someone tagged her client.
22:54
I went onto his page on his Facebook page, liked what he did.
22:58
There was the option to WhatsApp.
23:00
I WhatsApp him.
23:01
He comes back straight away, tells me he's available.
23:04
I sent him pictures of the area.
23:06
He tells me his price.
23:07
Boom.
23:09
Like the whole process was less than an hour.
23:12
Compared to a lot of tradesmen that would say, What if you call me?
23:16
I'll give you a quote.
23:17
Or I'll come out and visit.
23:18
Like, you've lost my interest.
23:20
And it's a similar thing with wedding businesses, like you want to be quick,
23:24
you want to get that contract out quick, you want to make it easy for them to sign.
23:28
None of this printing your contract and sending it in the post like
23:32
I did in 2002, like get with it.
23:36
It should be, like if I was going to create an onboarding process,
23:39
let's say for a wedding planner, it would be a proposal is sent.
23:44
In that proposal, they have the option to accept it.
23:48
That brings up the contract.
23:50
The client then signs the contract.
23:52
That then triggers the deposit invoice.
23:55
Client then pays the deposit invoice.
23:58
That then triggers a welcome email.
24:01
That welcome email is setting the boundaries.
24:04
It's telling them what they can expect.
24:07
It's giving them access to either a client portal like old planner or Google drive.
24:12
If you're keeping it simple, doesn't matter.
24:15
Either option works, you know?
24:17
And so if you're doing that, it's smooth, it's quick.
24:22
And that's what people are expecting.
24:25
And I think it's the same as.
24:28
Sometimes wedding planners, their call to action is book a call.
24:33
But, sometimes, someone may not want to jump on a call with you yet.
24:39
They're still seeing if you're the right person, so you have to
24:41
ensure the marketing touch point.
24:44
I'll get in them with different call to action.
24:47
Keep them on your website, getting them looking at your portfolio, getting them
24:51
looking at your testimonials and all those things before it's booking a call.
24:56
And I think this is why I always say to my clients, look, review
24:59
your business every 90 days, what's working, what isn't working and tweak
25:03
and adapt because what worked one quarter won't work the next quarter.
25:07
And as you said, people are lazy.
25:10
You need to make it as easy for them as you can.
25:12
Becca: Yeah.
25:13
And I think people might be listening to you talking about onboarding and
25:16
panicking and thinking that sounds like a lot of work, but actually
25:18
there's loads of systems out there that will make this easier for you.
25:21
I'm actually trialing a new wedding.
25:23
Pro system at the moment which I'll be talking about more soon,
25:27
where it does this stuff for you.
25:28
And you can even pay someone to set it up for you.
25:31
Like at the agency that I have, Wedding Pro Agency, we'll set it up for you.
25:34
And what you can do is you put all your clients in there and this system I'm
25:37
trialing, I keep going back to them to try and, you know, Cause I want
25:40
them to make it as easy as possible so that you can send a contract.
25:43
They can literally accept it, sign it, and then pay now on Apple pay the deposit.
25:47
So they don't even have to go and get their card out.
25:50
You don't even have to have the paper invoice.
25:52
The easier we can make it for people to pay for things.
25:55
The quicker they will do it.
25:56
So if you're listening to this and thinking that sounds
25:58
amazing, do some research.
25:59
There's so much software out there.
26:01
There's people that will help you get this set up.
26:03
And once it's set up, you can use it time and time again, and it will
26:07
actually save you time in the future.
26:08
So, so good.
26:10
Bernadette: Yeah.
26:11
I mean, you, you've got obviously two ways of doing this.
26:13
You've got, you know, as we know, platforms that will do not just this,
26:16
but so much more for your business.
26:18
But even if you're starting out, you know, you've got email systems that,
26:23
you know, for example, like MailerLite, that doesn't cost anything, or it's
26:26
very minimal, and you can have a lot set up even just within that.
26:30
So, if you don't have the funds for A CRM system right now.
26:35
There are still ways that you can automate most of this to make it easy.
26:39
Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
26:40
I'm a big advocate of MailerLite.
26:42
So I think there's actually a podcast episode.
26:44
If you go back a few, all about MailerLite.
26:46
So if that's of interest, you go and find that in the podcast player.
26:51
Now, Bernadette.
26:52
At the end of last year, you made what I would say was a shocking announcement.
26:56
I could not believe it.
26:58
So when I saw it myself, I think someone's screenshot it and sent it to me.
27:01
And you announced that you were actually closing the UK Alliance
27:05
of Wedding Planners, which was just unbelievable to me after so long.
27:09
So talk to us about that decision.
27:11
I'm sure it was a huge decision for you and why you made that decision.
27:16
Bernadette: Yeah, and it's interesting because actually this wasn't a
27:18
quick decision, but boy did it send shockwaves through the industry.
27:23
Like the messages I was getting and people almost in tears.
27:28
Who's going to hold the industry accountable now?
27:30
You know, people were genuinely worried about who and, and that's
27:36
part of the reason why I closed.
27:38
So I am very proud of what I've done, setting standards in the industry,
27:44
training over a thousand wedding planners.
27:47
During the pandemic, I was pretty much being interviewed every single day.
27:51
I was supporting people emotionally and practically, I'm sure you were as well.
27:57
But I'm a big believer in if it doesn't bring you joy anymore,
28:01
then you shouldn't be doing it.
28:02
And in 2019, I had, I remember standing at our annual mix and mingle, which
28:09
was we were celebrating 15 years.
28:12
15 year anniversary.
28:14
It was amazing.
28:15
And I remember standing there thinking, this will be the last mix and mingle.
28:19
I mean, actually it was, but for different reasons, but I remember
28:22
thinking, this is it next year.
28:25
I would have sold my business and then obviously 2020 happened.
28:30
So then I had to put a pause on that supported members and not just members.
28:35
I had X members, X students calling me in distress and likewise with 2021.
28:42
And then, so then I started the process of getting everything ready to sell it,
28:46
getting my sops ready and all of that.
28:49
And, and I realised I just was procrastinating and I wasn't doing it.
28:55
And, I kept sort of speaking to my husband, like I felt this
29:00
duty to keep the alliance going.
29:03
The thought of closing it just made me cry.
29:07
Still.
29:08
Makes me choked now.
29:10
Phew!
29:12
It wasn't an easy decision.
29:14
Oh God, I'm going to cry on your podcast, Becca.
29:17
Becca: It's okay.
29:18
You can, you can be vulnerable because I can see it was a huge decision.
29:21
And this is difficult.
29:22
These are difficult decisions.
29:24
And this is the important stuff because people are making difficult decisions
29:27
in their business all of the time.
29:28
Bernadette: Yeah.
29:28
And, and the thing is, It was nothing to do with money at all.
29:32
I mean, I closed down a business with multiple passive incomes.
29:37
You know, daily sales on not just membership, but courses and downloads.
29:43
I had so much passive income.
29:48
But I'm nuts.
29:49
You know, like, people are like, why, why are you doing it?
29:53
And I felt like I had a decision I either had to go big and like really
29:59
grow it, but I just, I just didn't want to, that didn't bring me joy.
30:04
And, and really the ultimate thing is when I launched, there was nothing, nothing.
30:10
There was no memberships, there was no industry bodies apart from.
30:15
Maybe photographers.
30:16
But there was, you know, there was nothing, nowhere to get support
30:20
for your business, nowhere to train, to be a wedding planner.
30:24
And there were no seminars when I was doing seminars.
30:27
There were no workshops when I was hosting workshops.
30:30
There were no coffee mornings when I started doing coffee mornings.
30:34
None of it, like, there's been so many firsts.
30:38
And I felt, like, the big thing with the with the alliance, it
30:42
was never about getting big.
30:44
And I've said this time and time again, and I know that's what a lot
30:47
of membership models are based on, that wasn't my membership model.
30:50
My membership model was about us being a family.
30:54
It was about a community.
30:55
It was about us supporting each other.
30:58
And I noticed that was declining and that was declining because there are
31:03
so many other memberships out there.
31:05
Now there are so that Facebook and Instagram and da da da, that I just felt
31:09
that it wasn't needed and, and that I launched it because it was needed and
31:16
I didn't think it was needed anymore.
31:19
And it didn't bring me joy anymore.
31:22
Though I, I wanted to streamline.
31:25
I wanted to know what it was like to have just one business for goodness sake.
31:28
I hadn't run one biz, I'd only run one business for just under two years.
31:34
Between 2002 and 2004.
31:37
When most of my time was spent being a, like, young mum.
31:41
I wanted to experience what's it like just to run one business.
31:44
And, and I think there's so much pressure sometimes to go big, to, you know, be a
31:51
multi millionaire, to go big, to launch another business, launch another service.
31:56
And actually I didn't, I didn't really want that anymore.
32:00
I've been there, done that.
32:01
I was talking to Nicola from Proposed PR just yesterday, who's been my PR agent.
32:06
And I said, do you know what?
32:08
Towards the end, I was being interviewed on TV and I didn't
32:11
really tell people about it.
32:12
I mean, I've been featured in every single broadsheet.
32:16
here in the UK.
32:17
I, you know, and I was just like, so blasé about it.
32:23
And that's not right, is it?
32:25
And when I closed my wedding planning business down, it's because it didn't
32:30
bring me joy anymore after 19 years.
32:32
When I closed the Alliance down, it didn't bring me joy.
32:38
But it was hard, and it was hard because of the emotional
32:44
support that I gave to so many.
32:47
And actually that took a bit of a toll on my health,
32:49
particularly during the pandemic.
32:51
Because I emotionally helped so many people.
32:56
And, and it's hard to say no if someone, if someone's crying
33:00
and you're supporting them.
33:02
Like, how can you say no?
33:04
I need to actually do stuff that's bringing money into my business, but
33:07
instead I was spending hours and hours and hours giving emotional support to people.
33:12
Becca: And that's the side of the business that people don't see.
33:15
And I know that because I have my own course of membership,
33:18
but it is mentally exhausting.
33:20
It is draining.
33:21
It's.
33:21
Hard work.
33:23
And this is why I love you, Bernadette, because I think me and you are on
33:26
the same page with our values and our ethos, you know, for me, my stuff's
33:30
always been about community and there is so much pressure to, you know, be
33:34
bigger and brighter and charge more and all of these things and, and.
33:38
it's hard to kind of push that away and go, no, I'm just going to be authentically
33:43
me and do the things that bring me joy.
33:45
And I think that's an important message you've shared today with
33:47
people because actually that is the most important thing in our lives.
33:51
Because if we're not finding joy in what we're doing, we're just spending our
33:55
lives serving other people for money.
33:57
That, that doesn't.
33:58
Give us any, you know, like that's not fun for anybody.
34:01
And actually sometimes the hardest decisions are the
34:03
ones that we have to make.
34:05
And actually, although other people might want us to keep it going, you know,
34:08
there's things I've done where people say, why aren't you still doing that?
34:11
And I think because actually it doesn't fit in with what I'm doing now.
34:14
It doesn't fit with my family.
34:15
It doesn't fit with my life.
34:16
And although I know you want it and you'll pay for it, actually,
34:19
that's not the most important thing.
34:21
Bernadette: And it's, and really one of the reasons why I didn't
34:25
sell it in the end, I felt like I couldn't trust anyone with it.
34:30
Because of all the messages that I was getting, I thought, how can I
34:34
possibly give that legacy to somebody?
34:36
And what if I completely, well I'm going to swear now, shit all over that legacy.
34:41
So, you know, I don't need that, I don't need to sell it.
34:46
I, I, I don't, you know, financially, we don't need that.
34:50
Me to sell the alliance.
34:52
We don't I'm quite happy about it.
34:55
Just sit in there so, you know, it is closed down.
34:58
I won't reopen it But I won't sell it unless it was the right person
35:03
that approached me because it's it's not right and I think There is all
35:08
that pressure on business owners now, you know to to launch passive
35:14
Income, it may not be right for them.
35:16
I think there's a misconception that running a membership is easy
35:19
It It really isn't a lot, you know, I had a lot of support in my in my
35:24
business to help run the alliance You know, I had a social media manager.
35:30
I had a v.
35:31
a You know, I had a graphic designer I mean, it's there was a big team of
35:36
people and there was so you know so much to help that membership tick over and
35:41
I think people don't realize that and I think It's important for, for, for
35:47
businesses to understand that it's okay to create a business that's right for them.
35:52
You do not have to be like anyone else like I never wanted to do destination
35:56
weddings I couldn't I had children and I didn't have that sort of support
36:00
that would be able to look after my children So I had no interest in
36:04
doing destination weddings and I think it's it's okay to create a business
36:10
that's right for you I've spoken to a photographer the other day and she only
36:14
works in a very small area where she is She doesn't, she's got a young baby.
36:18
She's not interested in going further and that's okay.
36:22
If you want to just work in your town, just work in your town.
36:26
If you want to work across the UK, work across the UK.
36:29
If you want to work abroad, work abroad.
36:31
If you want to close the business down, close the business down.
36:34
Becca: Absolutely.
36:35
And I think that's such an important message for people to reflect on.
36:38
And if you're listening to this and you're thinking actually my business
36:42
isn't bringing me joy anymore.
36:43
Take.
36:44
Take a moment to think about why that is.
36:46
Is it because you're just burnt out?
36:48
Right?
36:48
We all have those moments where we have a moment where we go, I'm just
36:50
going to quit it all and go on holiday.
36:53
And then, you know, we take a rest and then we realize actually
36:55
that's not what we want to do.
36:57
Or is it actually a deeper thing?
36:58
Is this a recurring thing?
37:00
And is there things that you can change?
37:01
Is it that you actually decide to do?
37:03
Less weddings in a year, or you do add in a second income stream
37:07
that brings you joy, or is there something completely different?
37:10
I've got a photographer at the moment who is continuing with photography,
37:13
but is also doing some crafting things on the side because it brings her joy.
37:18
And although she knows it probably won't make her loads of money, it's another
37:22
income stream that she enjoys doing.
37:24
And that's okay.
37:24
There's no one size fits all model.
37:27
Bernadette: No.
37:27
And you know, at the end of the day, this is why you become
37:30
an entrepreneur, isn't it?
37:32
So you're not working for someone else.
37:33
So you can do what you want to do.
37:35
You can work the hours that you want to do.
37:38
You know, take, if you want to take so many weeks off holiday a year, do it.
37:43
It's, it should be something that's right for you.
37:47
Because if it isn't right for you, it's not going to work.
37:50
And that's the thing, so, Wedding planning was right for
37:53
me for 19 years until it wasn't.
37:56
You know, the UKWP was right for me for so many years until it wasn't.
38:01
And I've written a blog post on this before that apparently
38:06
we all have five careers in us.
38:09
Nice.
38:10
I read.
38:11
I know.
38:11
I was quite interested in that little statistic.
38:14
I love a statistic.
38:15
And so it's, you know, it's okay if you want to, you know, I've, like, I think of
38:19
like the wedding planners I've trained, ex lawyers, ex teachers, ex police women,
38:26
you know, a huge range of careers that have decided, and they would have been
38:30
earning substantially but they decided no, I want to be, I want to be creative.
38:36
I want to be a wedding planner and that's okay.
38:39
And they may do it forever, but they may do it for five years.
38:43
They may do it for 10 years.
38:44
They may do it for 19 years.
38:47
Becca: So Benedette, what's next for you?
38:48
Because you're not off the scene entirely.
38:50
You're still around, you're still in and around the industry.
38:53
So what, what is it that's bringing you joy now?
38:55
Where are you taking your business over the next couple of years?
38:58
Bernadette: Yeah, so when I I'm a big believer in reflecting and thinking
39:01
about what does bring you joy and for me It's the connections with my clients.
39:06
So I'm Concentrated on my business consultancy.
39:10
So I work with primarily wedding businesses Helping them scale.
39:15
Sometimes that's going in a complete different direction and just really
39:19
helping them You know refine that customer journey refine You You
39:24
know how they're working because sometimes businesses find that they're
39:27
procrastinating because actually it's not the right path for them anymore.
39:31
And so I'm a bit of a ninja at getting into your head.
39:35
to find out what's blocking you, what's stopping you.
39:37
And then we work on that strategy.
39:39
So I've got some really exciting things planned for this year.
39:43
So along alongside my one to ones, I'm going to be launching Coffee Morning.
39:47
So in Essex and in London.
39:50
So we just, I used to love doing them for the Alliance and bringing that back.
39:54
I'll be bringing back in person workshops as well, because
39:57
again, I used to love teaching.
39:59
I, you know, I used to do, do the training in person.
40:02
before the pandemic sort of made me launch an online course.
40:07
But you know, I used to do it all in person and I loved it.
40:10
I love that connection that you get with people.
40:12
So connection is my word of the year.
40:14
So everything I do this year is going to be tailored around me
40:19
building that connection back up with people because I, I love that.
40:24
I love hearing people's stories and I love hearing how I can change their story.
40:30
Becca: I love it.
40:31
And I can see the joy and excitement in your face just as you're talking about it.
40:34
And I, I must get along to one of those coffee mornings.
40:36
Cause I can imagine it's going to be a great space to be in and to be
40:40
connecting with like minded individuals.
40:42
You mentioned briefly, and I want to touch on it very briefly, procrastination.
40:47
I love that you said you're a bit of a ninja in that area.
40:49
So I'm hoping you can give me some quick fire tips because this is
40:52
definitely something that I struggle with where, you know, I'll have an idea.
40:56
So even when I wanted to launch this podcast, it took me a year to actually
40:59
do it because I kept getting in my way.
41:02
So how do we identify when we're blocking ourselves rather than
41:06
when it's just not the right idea?
41:08
Bernadette: Yeah, I, I find this fascinating.
41:10
So, you know, don't get me wrong.
41:12
I love strategy.
41:13
So I'm very good at the strategic element.
41:17
No surprise in considering my background, but I'm also fascinated with your
41:21
subconscious mind and how it stops you and the stories that you're telling yourself.
41:26
So quite often that is what's leading to procrastination.
41:30
So quite often you say you want to launch something, whatever it is, but you don't
41:37
because you're trying to make it perfect.
41:38
Or you think no one's going to buy it.
41:41
You think you're not good enough and you start to talk yourself out of it.
41:45
And the reason why you do that is because it's easier to stay where it's safe.
41:52
So our subconscious is telling us Don't do that thing, because that's a bit scary.
41:57
So just stay where you are, and it will be fine.
42:00
Just keep doing what you've always been doing.
42:02
We don't need to do anything different.
42:04
And so because of that, that's why we're procrastinating over whatever it is
42:09
that, that, that you're going to launch, say a new, new course or whatever.
42:14
And so it's part of recognizing that it is your subconscious that is
42:18
stopping you, and it sounds really crazy, but you ask yourself a question.
42:22
Why am I not doing this?
42:24
and be, you know, journal it, but just, just be ready, you know,
42:28
ask, be a bit of a crazy person and just ask yourself those questions.
42:31
Why am I not doing it?
42:33
And see, and see what comes up, because then you're able to analyze your
42:38
crazy thoughts to work out what is blocking you and to change your story.
42:43
So to work on, you know, to work on your, you know, whether it is
42:47
imposter syndrome or confidence.
42:48
So a lot of women, especially in this space, suffer with lack of confidence.
42:55
and not feeling that they're good enough.
42:57
So it's kind of strengthening them with that.
43:00
So yes, quite often it's the mindset that leads to the procrastination in many ways.
43:07
But sometimes also procrastination is because it's not really
43:11
your zone of genius.
43:13
So you're doing something that you don't enjoy.
43:15
Whereas actually it should be delegated.
43:18
So I'm using a new CRM system and I was trying to get my lead magnet
43:23
done and I Lincoln, I hate tech.
43:26
And then I sat there, I was like, why am I trying to, why am I doing this?
43:30
So then hired you know, a tech PA that specialize in this specific system.
43:36
So sometimes it's recognizing.
43:39
That actually, you're not meant to do it.
43:41
Delegate it to someone else.
43:43
Becca: I find it a fascinating topic.
43:45
I probably could sit in a room with you and talk about this for hours and
43:48
hours about my own procrastination.
43:50
I always laugh with my members because I know that I suffer from some of these
43:53
things and my way of overcoming it is to announce to them that I'm going
43:57
to do something before I've done it.
43:58
Because then it makes me do it.
44:00
So for example, this year is the year I'm going to write a book.
44:03
And I keep telling people I'm going to write this book But by, by the end of
44:05
the year, because I know I won't do it otherwise, but knowing that I've told
44:09
people I don't like letting people down.
44:11
So watch this space.
44:12
It will come, but that's my way of dealing with it.
44:14
But I think it's fascinating to go into this mindset stuff.
44:17
And I'm sure every single person listening has got something that they need to
44:21
ask themselves that question about.
44:23
What is it that means I'm not?
44:24
Why am I not doing this?
44:25
What is it really at the heart of it?
44:28
Bernadette, we are out of time.
44:29
I've, I could talk to you all day.
44:31
I might have to get you back for a second episode, but I always,
44:34
always love chatting, always end the podcast with the same question.
44:37
And I'm going to ask you that now.
44:38
And it's this, what's one thing you personally wish you'd known
44:41
sooner in your own business?
44:43
Bernadette: Oh gosh, that's a tough one, isn't it?
44:46
I guess, I guess the one thing is, is recognising that
44:51
it's okay to be imperfect.
44:54
Like I had a lot of imposter syndrome, you know, brought up on a
44:57
council estate, went to your local school, didn't go to university, so
45:01
definitely I think, I think that.
45:02
So I think just recognising that you are good enough how you are.
45:07
Becca: Yeah.
45:07
So, so important.
45:08
But is it, if people want to find out more about you, find out more about what
45:11
you're doing these days in and around the wedding industry and to find out about
45:14
these upcoming coffee mornings, where's the best place for them to find you?
45:18
Yep.
45:18
Bernadette: So if you, you can follow me on social media, really simple, just my
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name, Bernadette Chapman, appreciate it is long blame my husband and my mother.
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So you can find me there.
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But then also if we've spoke about kind of marketing and touch points,
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so I do have A free workbook, which talks about other ways to promote
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your business outside of social media.
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So if you, I'll give the link to Becca and you're more than welcome to download that.
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Becca: Sounds perfect.
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I will make sure I put it in the show notes and I'm a big advocate for it.
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It takes us full circle back to the start.
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When you started your business without social media, there are other ways.
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So I recommend lots of people go and grab that.
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That download, I'll put it in the show notes, Bernadette.
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It has been such a pleasure.
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Thank you for being here.
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And I hope to see you in person somewhere soon.
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I love that conversation with Bernadette.
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I hope you enjoyed it too.
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We went all over the place.
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I'm sure there was something in there for each and every one of you, but I
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think the biggest learning from it is the importance of reflecting on your
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business, your current circumstances, and whether or not it's bringing you joy.
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And if it's not, maybe it's time to change something.
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After all, you went into this business because you wanted
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to do something that you love.
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Let's do more of that.
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I'll speak to you next time.