Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / A Masterclass in Networking— How Being Radically Generous Pays Off: with PR Expert Rachel Rischall

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A Masterclass in Networking— How Being Radically Generous Pays Off: with PR Expert Rachel Rischall · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe, and each week my guests
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and I have conversations that.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Put a new spin on pretty this is pretty smart.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to find out how one woman turned
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a cold LinkedIn message and coffee meeting into six hundred
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars in revenue, and how you can do it too,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: just by networking. But before we get into the interview,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I want to share a little bit. So I really
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: wanted to cover this topic because I think it's integral
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: to success and I want us to succeed, and also
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: because I think we've gotten networking all wrong. When someone
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: says that word, the first thing that comes to my
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: mind is a bunch of people with name tags at
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: a Hyatt with Paisley Green carpet, drinking bad coffee and
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: shaking hands. And then I heard Mark Cuban talk about
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: networking and he said, people think it's about selling, but
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: really it's about helping. And that reframe, that's what it's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: all about. What if instead of concerning ourselves with what
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: we can get from somebody, we ask ourselves what we
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: can give. I'll tell you a little bit about my
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: own experience with networking. I've always been a people person.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: After I got my first job in TV and got
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: kind of like a baseline understanding of how things worked,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I promised myself to always make it about the people,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the people I worked with, the people I covered, the
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: people watching at home, and when I think back on
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: my career, the essential ingredient has always been people relationships.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: When I first moved to LA from Chicago, I would
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: cold email people for coffee meetings.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I spent any extra time I.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Had finding people on LinkedIn, and honestly, I even stood
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: outside of an executive's office with coffee and doughnuts for
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: three mornings in a row to get a meeting with him.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: One time, I just wanted a foot in the door.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I looked at all of the people I considered successful.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I saw that absolutely no one successfully does anything alone.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: But if you don't want to stand outside of a
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: building with coffee and donuts, how do you meet people?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: How do you get to know people? What do you
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: send in a proper cold email to connect? How do
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: you quote unquote network authentically. The first thing is to
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: abolish that word, because it definitely gives convention vibes. I
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: think we should rebrand it as relationship building, because that's
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: what it truly is.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to call on one.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Of the best relationship builders that I know, a twenty
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: year vet in public relations, Rachel Gilman. Rischel is the
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: founder of three PR. She works with huge national brands
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: and clients. She's an expert communicator with an innate passion
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: for finding, crafting, and sharing compelling stories. I went to
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: write about her and I saw that one of her
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: former clients wrote something that I think just captures her perfectly. Emily,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a CEO, says, Rachel is a force. Not only is
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: she extremely talented, her pitches could win Pulletzer prizes and
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: the most connected person I know she has somehow one
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: degree away from everyone, but she's also unbelievably loyal and dedicated.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: When Rachel works with a client, she's all in.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: She becomes personally invested in your brand and it shows
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: through her constant hustle and celebration of your wins as
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: her own. Rachel knows how to form strong, valuable, long
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: lasting relationships. She's so generous. So today is a masterclass
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: in networking. Excuse me, let me try that again. Today
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: is a masterclass in relationship building, though, Rachel pr is
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: all about relationships. Your job is quite literally to ask
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: people for things all of the time, and I've never
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: seen anybody do it better with more grace and kindness
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: than you. But you say that people have the idea
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: of networking all wrong.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: So what do you mean.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, thank you. You're so kind, and
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I think that true. Everything that you just said really
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: warms my heart, so I appreciate it. But I think
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: people unintentionally view relationships very transactionally. People get caught up
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: in the moment and they think what can this person
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: do for me? And then they believe it's a one
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: off transaction and then they can move on. And I
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: really have a completely different mindset about it. I think
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: about relationships as endless possibilities and I really like to
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: hold on to people. I was thinking about this idea
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: of having a really expansive mindset about relationships and the
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: Hotel California, like, once you come in, you can never leave.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: Oh I like that somebody that I really like or
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: I feel connected to, or I respect you, or we
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: have worked together, well, you are forever in my hotel
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: relationships and you will always have a place there. I
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: really like to ensure that I don't work with people
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: in the way that one thing is done and we've
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: moved on and.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: The door closes.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: I really like to see how they can come back
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: to each other over and over again and it can
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: be mutually beneficial.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Well, you also are such a big giver. I've always
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: tried to be a giver too. I think Adam Grant
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: sort of has this theory where he talks about going first,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: whether you're in a meeting or saying hello first, even
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: on a sidewalk. But people get so caught up, I
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: think in not wanting to give ideas a way. I
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: was actually at a brainstorm the other day and someone
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: said I haven't launched my project because I'm trademarking the idea.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: And all I could think in my head was what
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a waste of time? Because like, you can't like somebody's
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: always going to be doing things. You can't feel so
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: proprietary over your information, your ideas.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: You just have to move and go.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: And so you are the queen of giving, giving, giving,
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  Speaker 1: even if you know that nothing could be in return
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: for you in the near or or long long future.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Where does that come from?
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: I think I should probably credit my mom because she's
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: one of the most emotionally generous people I know. But
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: I think over time, I've realized that you might not
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: get something back from somebody that you help, and that's okay,
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: but I believe in the scales of life and business
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: you will. So if you continually operate with the mindset
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: of I'm going to be generous with my time, my referrals,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: my expertise, invariably it will come around and you too
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: will be the benefactor of somebody else's generosity. So I
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: think we're all playing as part of this game. But
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: it only works if you're a generous player. And when
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I was launching my career and I had nothing to
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: bring to the table except a lot of questions, people
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: were very kind to me to have lunches and coffees
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: and resume feedback, and I soaked it all up and
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: I hope I was gracious, But to be honest, I'm
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: sure at certain points I fail to say thank you,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: or I didn't really close the loop. Well because I
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: was twenty two and new to everything, But now sitting
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: almost twenty years later in my career, I feel really
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: morally obligated to pay it forward and help people. And
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: I was thinking of two silly examples recently. But this
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: past summer, I was on the plaza of the Today
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: Show for a family trip, and we were getting this
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: really cool experience of being on the plaza and hearing
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: a concert. And I watched this girl who was a
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: page for the Today Show make the rounds, and she
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: was doing their social media and taking pictures and grabbing content,
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: and I just remembered being a twenty two year old intern,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: and so I started talking to her and asking her questions,
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: and she was sharing that she's really happy to be there.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: She hopes she gets hired full time. She's not sure
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: what's going to happen. Intern salary doesn't go very far
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: in New York. And I said, I know, I just
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: met you, but if you ever want to reach out
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: and talk about your career, I love helping young women.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: I feel really invested in helping people move ahead. I
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: have a lot of friends in the business. So here's
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: my email address, and to her credit, she did email me,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: and then we did a session working on her resume
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: and taking all this great experience she had had already
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: but just reframing it to be a little bit more
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: impact fault. And then we stayed in touch and she
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: told me about her interview process and what she was
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: hoping would happen.
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: And now she's staffing the green room at the Today Shows.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: She gets to work with all the talent that comes
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: in and all of the anchors, and she's so thoughtful
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: and thankful, and it makes me just like beam to
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: know that she's on this track. Maybe in ten years
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: she will be a big somebody at the Today Show
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: and I will be able to ask for some sort
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: of favor, but maybe not, and that's okay. I just
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: feel like I did a good deed and that can
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: be where it sits. I also just found out the
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: other day that my high school mentor's friend's granddaughter got
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: her first PR job because of an intro I made,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: and that's like as many degrees as you can go.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: But I'm so thrilled because your first PR job really
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: sets the temple for the rest of your career. And
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: I know she's going to be in great hands, and
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: I hope that in five, ten, fifteen years I get
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: to hear about her thriving. So I do that because
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's the right thing to do, but
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: people continually do it for me, so it all works out.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I feel the same way.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: There's the kind of a rise in especially with gen Z.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I hear it a lot with being paid for your time,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: and I still don't know how I feel about this.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people would say nowadays, you
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: have such an expertise twenty years in the business that
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: someone could call you and you could charge them for
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes of your time.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I've never felt right about that.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like you and I are on the same page,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: not that if somebody does that it's wrong. I just
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: again like, don't feel like the scales work that way.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Do you have any sort of thoughts on that. Have
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: you heard young people talk about this concept.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: Yes, and I've heard my peers talk about it.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: And I also feel a little bit of this dilemma
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: about it because I'm a huge advocate for knowing your
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: worth and being able to have sometimes an uncomfortable conversation
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: and say, actually, this is my fee, or if you
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: want me to do this, here's my rate. And I've
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: worked very hard to get over the uncomfortable hurdle of
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: telling people there's a cost attached. Right that being said,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: As I mentioned, I really believe in emotional generosity and
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: trying to pay it forward. So I think I try
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: to evaluate each opportunity based on intent. So if this
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: is someone who's in college or newly out of college,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: there's a strong connection between us. I'm doing a favor
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: for someone in my parents' network or whatnot, I'm not
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: going to charge them for it. But if somebody's coming
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: to me and they're bringing this expectation that I owe
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: them some information, or that I should feel fortunate to
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: have their time, or there's something going on where they
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: want to extract something from me, but I don't feel
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: like the intent behind it is great or for them
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: it really is a true transaction. I am more prone
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: to say here's an hourly rate, or to look for
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: a way to balance the scales a little bit, because
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: at the end of the conversation they might feel wonderful,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: but I don't want to feel taken advantage of.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting, So let's talk about that word transactional,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: because you say that a short term approach like that
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: actually can hold you back in some ways.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, I fully agree, and I see people do it
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: all the time. I'm amazed when I will connect with
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: somebody and I will end by saying, and I mean
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: this genuinely, Hey, keep in touch, like if you have
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: any questions, I'm happy to help you in the future.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: I'm happy to look at materials. I'm happy to make introductions.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: I do this constantly when someone comes to me through
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: a referral, and over and over again, people will not
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: continue the relationship. They will just drop off entirely, and
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: I think, what a loss. We never know what could transpire.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: On the flip side, I find it so impressive when
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: people hold on for the long haul. My brother calls
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: it staying power. I love those relationships. And let me
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: give you a special example. I had a client who
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: had a recommendation for me. She said, I know somebody
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: really incredible that I think you should meet. And I
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: trust that when a client or somebody I really look
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: up to says you should meet someone, that's a lead
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: that I want to follow.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I know where this story is going, Rachel.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: I was trying to sneak it by you, but that
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: was you.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: You and I are a case study for a one
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: time introduction. You and I have met one singular time
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: for drinks.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: So Jenny Petinkin when I did a show in Chicago.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Jenny Patinkin is a beauty expert. She has her own
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: line of beauty products. But anyways, she was your client
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: at one point, and I loved her, and she had
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: us all have drinks, the three of us, and then
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: you and I probably stay in touch more than she
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and I do.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: I actually just saw Jenny for coffee last week and
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: I said, oh, I'll give you a shout out for
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: this amazing connection. But no, Jenny's wonderful, as are her
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: beauty products. But she was kind of insistent, like, you
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: have to meet Danielle. I really think you guys would click.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: And so I try to listen to those suggestions.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: If somebody says you have.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: To meet this person, I think there's usually a deeper reason.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: And Sun Up, I met you, and I felt really
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: at home with your energy. I really liked you as
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: a person. I thought we were really smart and articulate
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: and interesting. And you didn't let go and I didn't
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: let go. And so four years later, you've become a very.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: Important to me.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Well, I think part of nurturing these relationships, especially with
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: new ones, is finding natural ways to reach out. I
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: think that is actually a big struggle for people.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: It induces a little bit of social anxiety.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: How have you found natural ways to reach out and
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: sort of extend a hand when you meet somebody new.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: In a professional sense, or when I'm trying to continue
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: a friendship, No.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: In a professional sense.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of professional relationships turn into friendships, like
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I think ours has turned into a friendship, but it
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: started professionally. One of the things I do is I'll
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: send people articles that I think are relevant to their
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: life if it makes I read the article and it
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: makes me think of them, or I think it would
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: be a value to them and it's just a quick email.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Are there things that you do that you think feel natural?
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: I like what you're doing. I think that makes sense.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: I try to become a genuine fan if that makes sense.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: So if they oftentimes i'm working with journalists, if they
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: wrote something that I thought was really interesting or impactful,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I'm going to send them a note and genuinely complement it,
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: and I'm not going to ask for anything in rerich
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: I'm not pitching them. I just thought this was a
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: wonderful article. I really liked X, Y and Z about it.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: Hope you're doing well. I try to stay apprized of
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: what's happening and in the least creepy way possible.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Have these touch points.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Somebody got promoted, you see it on LinkedIn, they make
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: some major announcement, you comment upon it, you think of
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: an introduction that would be beneficial to them.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: So ooh, that's a big one.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So actually Ari Emanuel from WMME is famous for this.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: He always makes intros before anybody asks. So he'll randomly
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: send emails and say, Jessica and John, I think you
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: guys should meet bah blah blahlah blah, and like he'll
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: just it's a quick, short email, and I think he
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: sends them out every week.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: He'll do a few of them.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: And that's a big one because you're really adding value
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: to somebody's life that way.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: I think if you're him, you can just do that
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: without requesting the other person's permission. But I look like
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: from my universe, I usually double check that people are.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: Up for an intro.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a good point.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: But I think it is an incredible gift when you
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: can say, yeah, the xually why you should meet and
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: here's here's what could come of it. So I have
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: a lot of freelance writer friends. I certainly pitch them
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: for my job, but I also know that their livelihood
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: depends on connecting to other editors who can hire them.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: So I'm always looking for ways to introduce people where
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: they can get more work. And it's like, if you
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: think about like as a bank account, I'm always trying
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: to make deposits so that I'm showing up for somebody else,
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: not asking for something, maybe not asking for a while,
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: but just demonstrating that I care about their well being.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: I'm interested in them as a person.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: I want to see them thrive, and I think over time,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: it develops a great, healthy professional relationship where you can
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: go back and forth and it stops feeling transactional and
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: it starts feeling like a thriving, mutually collaborative relationship.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: So I love visuals.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I know you mentioned the Hotel California, but you've said
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: that you picture relationships as a book.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: You know my language. I like to think about things
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: in concrete terms.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: So if you envision your relationships as a book, think
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: about all the chapters you're flipping through and all the
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: stories within that book. And you always want to ensure
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: you're ending a chapter on a great note too. I
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: really think it's wonderful to close out a chapter, whether
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: you're working together on a project, you are launching something together,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: end that on a great note.
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: I try to always wrap up with a beautiful.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Thank you note so that the next time I connect
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: with somebody, our last correspondence was gratitude and me being gracious.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: So that's really nice.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Literally just in touch with the Wall Street Journal doing
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: a fact check right before this. She said, the story's
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: running on Monday, So on my calendar for Monday, read
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: the story, send her a thoughtful note, let her know
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: much appreciate it, And then, of course I'm going to
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: ask her if she'll have coffee with me. She could
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: say no, she might say, like, stories done, what do
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I need Rachel for? But she might say, hey, this
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: one pretty smoothly. Maybe Rachel has other ideas for me.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: I'm willing to foster a relationship as well. So gratitude,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: and then if you can try to make an ask
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: so that you have another chapter to write together.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Wait, what do you mean? Make an ask so that like.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: Could we meet for coffee? Could I other ideas your way.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Is there another way that I can help you? I
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: think we could close it out and just say, oh,
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: that was a great story. I really appreciate it, thank
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: you so much. My client's thrilled. But I want to
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: ensure that that's not the end of our story, and
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: so I will probably look for a way that we
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: can develop further. Even if she says I can't meet
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: for coffee, I might say, I'd love to send you
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: more ideas.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I think I've seen you
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: do so well is the opposite of how can I
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: help you? Because it's that is such a nice sentiment,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: and I would love if somebody emailed me how can
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I help you? But also you're so much more proactive
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: than that. You send like really specific detailed ideas thoughts
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: like hey, have you thought of having this person on
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: your podcast?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Or have you seen this brand?
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Or it's honestly general with creativity and ideas, and.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I think that is so helpful.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I know you and I were talking about the cold
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: email and being specific like that is exactly how I
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: actually got started. In LA's I would cold email people.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't want the email to go to junk mails,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: so I would research them, and I'd say, hey, Brandon,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I saw you were a political science major. I was too,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: And then I'd go into a specific ask and I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: thought they were much more apt to or much more
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: open to meeting or speaking on the phone.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: So what do you do when you cold email people?
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: We share this passion for the cold email. I think
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: for a lot of people they break out in hives
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: and cannot stand the idea of having to email someone
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: they don't know with a request. But I've spent twenty
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: years sending emails nobody wants and gotten very comfortable with
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: no response, a no, or sometimes incredible things happening. I mean,
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: I got all the way into Oprah's Favorite Things from
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: cold email, and I'm still texting with Gil King a
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: year and a half later. I mean, there are some
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: really life changing, career shifting things that can happen from
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: sending the email that you're nervous to send.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: And I can give you so many examples of that.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Do you have a few more that are top of mind?
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: So here's one that blends I think positive intent with
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: the cold email. When I was very new to starting
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: my own business. So this is a little over five
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: five years ago, actually, a little over five years ago,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: a friend of mine, a really talented friend of mine, Emily,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: was like, Hey, Rachel, I'd like to work at this
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: company called Farmer's Fridge and they have this opening, but
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know anybody there. Could you help me find
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: a connection? And I love the challenge, like if somebody's like,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: can you find a connection to this, like, let's go.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: I love finding ways to make the world smaller. So
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: I jump on LinkedIn and I see that this guy
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: named Jonathan is a consultant for Farmers Fridge.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: And I know who Jonathan is because he.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Was a huge deal at this ad agency I used
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: to work at when I was just out of college,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: and he was like at the top of the heap,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: so he never knew me.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: We never overlapped. He was just a big name.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: So I sent him a cold email on LinkedIn, which
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: is like, even worse, who wants a cold LinkedIn email?
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: I was really starting from a struggle place, but I
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: decided to do it anyways because I.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: Adored Emily and I wanted to be helpful.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: So my email essentially said, Hi, Jonathan, I'm reaching out
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: of behalf of a friend of mine. She would love
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: to apply for this job at Farmer's Fridge. Resumes travel
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: so much further when someone connected to the company is involved.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: I wondered if you'd be kind enough to share her
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: resume as a small world moment. We both worked at
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: this agency together. I've heard your name for years. It's
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: great to connect, so I always believe short, sweet, make
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: a connection and have a clear ask what do you
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: want from this person?
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Also, even though I'm not always into LinkedIn email, at
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: least somebody can look you up easily and realize you're
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: not nuts. You have some shared background, and when someone
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: can imbue personality in a short old email, yeah, just
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: like a round of applause for that person.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: It's not easy.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you email on LinkedIn and then what happens?
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Does he send Emily's resume.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Jonathan, to his credit, writes me back, very gracious, very nice,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: happy to send the resume along fully get it and
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: that could have been it, right, That would be a
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: normal transaction, right. But I do what I do, which is,
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: let's write another chapter. Let's see what happened. So I
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: just said, I've heard so much about you over the years.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: I would really love to meet sometime, just let me
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: know if you're up for coffee, and he said yes,
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: So we go to coffee and now, if nothing else,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: I'm just happy because he's a great storyteller and it's
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: fun to hear about his years at this agency, and
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: I'm just enjoying his company. But then he said, a La,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Jenny Pittinkin, you know who you should really meet. You
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: really should meet Farmer's Fridge yourself. I think you'd hit
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: it off with SHANEA she I think at the time
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: was like the head of girl. She's brilliant, she's wonderful,
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: YadA YadA. I think you'd like each other. So I
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: followed that introduction and Farmer's Fridge is now my longest
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: running client. We're going to hit the five year mark
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: in January. Wow, completely changed my business. That Jonathan put
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: me in touch with Farmer's Fridge. Shana has become a
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: very close friend of mine who has since referred me
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: to two other clients. So because of her, I'm at
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Io Foods, and because of her, I represent Siete Foods,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: which is an incredible company.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Wait, so, because you went out of your way to
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: help a random woman named Emily, who you weren't even
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: that close.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: With Emily was a good friend, but I.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Went out of your way to help her. You had
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: ended up serving your business tenfold.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: I actually tried to tally up the financial benefit of
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: the singular coffee. I mean, this was over a six
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars coffee.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: That is so wid.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Jonathan, I will be taking you out to dinner suit.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: I've sent Jonathan number of thank yous, but it was
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: and I've also sent Shana a number of thank yous,
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: and they're both such wonderful people. I just think this
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: is a case study, and a very pleasant case study
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: of Emily asked me a favor, and I adore Emily,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: so I tried to do something I wasn't sure I
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: could do, which was to find a connection for her
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: to Farmer's Bridge. They didn't even end up hiring her.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: She found another job, like she went a whole different direction.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: But they hired me, and they hired me for a
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: six week project.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: Six weeks was.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Our first contract. I just double checked, and now five
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: years later, I'm still working with them. And then because
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: of Shanea, she ended up being this bridge to these
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: other amazing food companies that has since expanded my client portfolio.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: So if there was no Emily, then there was no Jonathan,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: no Jonathan, no Shana, no Shana, no Siete.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, so this is incredible. I want to back up
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: a little bit. For people who.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Are looking for a change in profession, some sort of transition,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: they don't really have a lot of insight in the
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: field they want.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: To be in.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: They're looking, they reach out to someone on LinkedIn that
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: hasn't responded. What should they do?
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: So?
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I think the magic is in the follow up. Don't
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: follow up a million times, But I think people give
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: up far too soon. How many times have you gotten
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: a note from somebody and you think, oh, I'll get
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: back to them soon, and then you forget. I mean,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: I really don't think anybody can handle the flood of communication.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: So a lot of times an initial note gets lost,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: not because the person's blowing you off, not because they're uninterested,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: but just because they have a full time job and
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: a family and friends and other things, and you are
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: a voice out there that they haven't even really experienced yet.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: The first thing is to not take it personally, right.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: I am as sensitive or more as the next person.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: You really, I work in a field where rejection is continual,
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: and I don't take it personally. Nobody says Rachel, I
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: actively dislike you, so not responding to your email, they
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: might say this is a shitty pitch and I'm not interested.
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: More likely they're just not going to email me back.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: But when I said I had this Wall Street Journal
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: situation today, I sent this writer cold email. I didn't
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: know her, I just knew her work, and so I said, Hi,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: I've been tracking your great stories. I want to introduce
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: you to this client I work with. It's called a
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: wild Rice Retreat. It's a beautiful resort. Here's all the information.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: If I can help you, I'm here. Nothing happens, which
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: is normal. A lot of times people do not respond
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: to a first email, especially if they don't know you,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: especially if they don't need you at that moment. But
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: six weeks later, she's writing a story for the Wall
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: Street Journal and she wants to interview my client the
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: next day.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: And now, how long do you wait to follow up?
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: So here's my big tactical trick. I'm getting in the
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: weeds here. I've learned, probably slower than everybody else, about
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: how you can set Gmail reminders, so the email will
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: come back to the top of your inbox. So I
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: will email somebody blind copy myself, set the timer on it,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: and I'm if it's urgent, maybe three days. If it's not,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: maybe I'll give it somewhere like ten to fourteen days,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: and then I'll come back up in my inbox and
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: I'll be like, oh, yeah, I was going to write
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: this person again. And when you follow up, don't be
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: an asshole about it. You would never say I haven't
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: heard back from you, or it's been a while. You
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: might say that hope things are going well, or I
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: saw that this thing happened. Because you're paying attention to
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: their work, their LinkedIn theirs social accounts. Maybe you have
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: a new angle or a new piece of information you're
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: going to share and that's the reason you're checking back in.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: Or I'll just get really self deprecating and be like,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry to bother you promised last follow up note.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Would love to hear if you're interested, and just be
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: a little human about it, like maybe it's not a fit,
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: maybe it is. Oftentimes people will literally say to me,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: thanks for checking back.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: I forgot about this.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate when people check backs. You know, my
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: mom was in sales when I was growing up. She
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: sold mortgages, and she came home from like some convention
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: she had to go to one time, and she told
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: me that what she learned that day, and I've never
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: forgotten it. It's that people don't recognize a name until
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: the seventh or eighth time they see it.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: So I always think, like a billboard or.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Or an email or any of that, like you just
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: your brain needs so much repetition, not that you should
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: follow up sevent eight times.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: It's interesting to know.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: It made me feel like, Okay, I don't take it
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: personally if somebody doesn't reply to me.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I think there can be an ecosystem approach if
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: you're trying to break through to a new contact, as
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: in like you've emailed them and then you've added them
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: on LinkedIn, and then perhaps you're not following them on Instagram,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: and then maybe you notice you have people in common
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: on Facebook, and so you're coming at it from different
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: touch points. I have mixed feelings.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: Sometimes I think.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: It's really effective because you do get name recognition and
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: you do show that there's a way that you're linked.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: However, you don't want to hound anybody, and yeah.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: It's I think it's a little march.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I found that's worked with
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: writers is to.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Reach out and then I just let it sit.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Like if I become friends with them on Instagram for
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: a year, I follow, you know, I like their things,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: and I comment on something that I like that they've done,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and then they see my name pop up and then
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: there's recognition and it almost feels like it was I
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: don't know, authentic organic.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm going to turn a question back to you.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: I think sometimes you'll meet somebody and you can have
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: an innate sense that a relationship's really possible. You just
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: have great energy between you. You just really feel like
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: a great spark, and that makes more sense. Have you
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: ever been able to foster a really great business relationship
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: with somebody where you felt none of that off the bat?
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: That's actually a great question. No.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I don't lean into those relationships because I don't enjoy them,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: and so if there's not a connection or a warmth,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I just move on because I think that there's somebody
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: else that there will be that with. But I'm sure
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: you have because you're able to puncture people, and it's
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: one of your powers.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: I've never heard it phrase that way, but I appreciate it.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: Although I do agree with you ultimately, I think that
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: I hope I'm a disarming person and I tried it
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: to be warm and outgoing and have it come from
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: a of being genuine. But I also struggle with people
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: who I think are going back to the word transactional,
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: maybe more transactional cold, aloof distant. You know, I don't
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: really have a professional version of myself in a personal version,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: it's it's one and only in running my own business
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: have I felt like I've been able to celebrate that
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: unification and that at other places I worked, and when
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: you're part of a company, you're not always rewarded for
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: bringing your whole self. But for those people who I
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: think are not particularly warm or welcoming or bring that
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: energy forward, the relationships kind of stall out. I don't
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: think it can go as far when someone's not meeting you.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not fun, you know, Like I don't know,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I don't even think of when I think of networking,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think of it as networking. I think of
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: it as relationship building, because that's the key. Yes, Well,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: they're like genuinely like if I don't want to be
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: your friend, I don't really want to like email you,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: you know, so it's like it's it's all or nothing.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess you're right.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Certain people click and certain people don't, and it is
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: what it is. You had this great quote that you
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: sent to me that I would love for you to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: elaborate on. You said, you're paraphrasing the RX bar founder
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Peter Rahal, is that how you pronounce ray Hall?
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Ray Hall?
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: He was a former client of yours, and he said,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: if you ask influencers for love, they'll ask you for money.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: If you show influencers love, they'll do the same. So
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: please elaborate on that.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: So obviously, Peter Rayhall done incredible things with building and
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: selling our ex bar. But I thought this was an
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: amazing insight and I think it goes to the core
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: of human nature. If you ask people for things, they're
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: going to want something back. You've immediately established the parameters
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: of relationship that value.
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: Needs to change hands.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: But if you just show up for people and do
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: something kind or surprise them, or display some generosity of spirit,
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: it's amazing what comes back.
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, does this really beautifully.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: They send out really gorgeously curated, really fun packages to
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: all sorts of people, and they don't ask for anything.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: They don't say if you're going to get this package,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: I expect these posts from you. I want approval on this.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: There's no expectation attached. It's a gift. But then lo
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: and behold, people do post because I think they're really
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: touched and it's really thoughtful and there's great intent behind it.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: So I try to practice a version of what Peter said,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: which is I want to show people love. I want
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: to be generous, I want to be thoughtful. I once
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: got called a fairy job mother, and it was like
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: the best thing ever. I love the idea of connecting
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: people with job opportunities, because what greater gifts than to
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: give people the chance of employment. But I don't at
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: the end of it say, oh, you only ten percent.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, there are referral structures for sharing new business.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: There are times when it makes sense to I think,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: have those parameters in place. But the most part, like
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: it's okay to be radically generous. You might be surprised
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: by what comes back to you.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I really like that I've been thinking about that a lot,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: because that's just kind of like how I live my life.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: And sometimes I'm like, do people like take advantage? Should
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I like be thinking about this more so? And I
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: did a lot of soul searching, and I realized, no,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: it's something that I like about myself, and so like,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: who cares if it doesn't come back in the same way,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: and maybe it does.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Who knows? Is that how you feel you'd like that
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: about yourself.
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: I'm worried that I sound like I'm crazy altruistic.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not the most generous person, and I
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: don't want to frame as though like I never expect
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: things back.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: Or you know.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: This is something I continually work on too, is the
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: balance of giving and taking and making sure that the
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: scales feel good, because if you are always giving, you're
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: going to be empty.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: So I think it's a process.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: But I saw this advice someone gave about starting your
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: mourning with one generous or kind gesture, like nothing major,
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: but maybe it's an email intro or responding to somebody.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: Who had a question for you. Just if you do
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: start your.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: Day on the note of I've given or I've tried
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: to be beneficial to somebody else it does, I've realized
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: change your feeling about the rest of the day and
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: how you proceed. So my thought is, as you were
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: questioning whether you were doing too much, is the gut
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: check of how you feel like If you feel taken
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: advantage of, or you feel depleted, or you feel unappreciated,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: then that's probably your clue that something's out of whack.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: But if you're getting back affirmation, feedback, genuine thank yous,
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: then maybe it is worth it. I mean, my love
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: language is, for sure, words of affirmation. So as long
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: as somebody says thank you, I appreciate you, I'm done.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: How do you feel about it?
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: In terms of gender, this gets really complicated. A lot
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: of people in PR are women. True, it's an industry
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: that is built on service, and we expect service out
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: of women. I guess, like, how do you balance your
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: generosity with making sure that people respect you as they
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: would have?
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: Man, I'm going to go backwards on this one because
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: how I feel about it now has shifted when it's
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: my own company. So in my late twenties, I worked
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: for a small PR firm really tightened really wonderful people,
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: but the top level was primarily male and everybody else
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: was primarily female, which was industry norm. And I had
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: a client who drove me crazy. I mean, this guy
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: was awful, and it was really hard because I'm a
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: people pleasing personality in a client service business dealing with
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: a hyper aggressive male personality who would compliment me and
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: then denigrate me, and so like I felt like an
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: emotionally abusive boyfriend. It was not a great situation. And
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: with a lens I have now like oh. But I
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: went to my boss about it, who I'm still very
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: close to today, right, and he's like, you need more
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: of a backbone, you need to push back, And I
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: thought about how uncomfortable I was doing that. It was
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: really hard for me to create boundaries, to draw a line,
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: to assert myself, to not let him bully me and
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: walk all over me, because it was the combination of
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: the nature of the business, which is making sure the
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: client feels good, but also my own michigas, which is
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: wrapped up in it of I want to be liked.
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: I want to be liked more.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Than I might want to be respected, And what my
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: boss was trying to say is be respected. I'm giving
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: you the permission slip, to tell him he's wrong or
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: to say that's not the way to do it, and
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: to assert yourself. And so over the years I've really
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: called upon that advice of bring your backbone. There are
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: times when it's great to get along with people, it's
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: great to ensure that everybody feels good, it's copasetic. But
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: there are also really important times, even in a service business,
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: even with the gender disparity, to just be assertive.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Do you think about your tone when you're assertive?
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: Do you feel like you have to often it ho
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: from a different part of yourself to be assertive and
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: stand up for yourself, and especially in the industry you're in.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: At the beginning, I had like a you know how
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Beyonce has Sasha Fearce, Like I had to tap into
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: a different part of me. And then my mom says,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: you know, if you wear a mask long enough, it
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: becomes your face. So you have to be careful because
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: it's good and bad. But I think in a good way.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I practice it long enough that it's now of me.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: But I still struggle. Sometimes it's hard.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: I will say, and I feel like I'm aging myself
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: a little bit.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: I think becoming a parent and having the role of
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: being in charge of other lives has really shifted my
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: perspective on standing up for things that are important to me.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: Pushing back I mean raising my voice. I do that
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: all the time now I'm constantly getting into it with children.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: But this idea of oh, I'm an adult, I can
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: make informed decisions. I can stand my ground and say
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: I'm okay with this or I'm not okay with this,
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: I also feel like though yelling is lazy oftentimes and
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: in business, incredibly unprofessional. I had a difficult situation recently
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: that arose on a weekend, and it wasn't fraught in
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: the sense that we were having high conflict. But it
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: would have been easy for me to adopt the role
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: of I'm right, you're wrong, and to sort of almost
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: push back and be a little bit aggressive, like I'm
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: the pr expert, I think this is what you should do.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: But I realized that what the moment called for was
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: compassionate understanding. The person wasn't trying to be difficult. We
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: were not meant to be on opposite sides of the issue.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: We needed to come together, acknowledge it felt uncomfortable, figure
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: out a path, and move forward together, and I think
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: sometimes with maturity you can recognize this is a moment
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: to be assertive, or this is a moment to actually
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: reach even deeper and be empathetic and try to figure
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: out are we on different sides or do we just
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: need to reframe this together.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: That's such a great point. So much of conflict really
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: stems from miscommunication. So if you're able to like really
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: tap into the other person's feelings, then that's a superpower.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Also defensiveness, we all have a knee jerk reaction of oh,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: you're saying this to me, I need to protect my
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: ego in it. This doesn't feel good for me because
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: now I feel like I'm being attacked or you're questioning
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: my competency.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: But oftentimes you're right.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: It's just reframing it and somebody's like I'm uncomfortable or
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: I don't feel prepared or I'm not sure about this,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: and instead of getting defensive, it's like, oh, I understand
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: where you're coming from, Like let's let's get into that,
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: Like let's talk it through.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Let's get into it. Sounds exciting, like yeah, let's see,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: let's let's.
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: Get into your discomfort and really evaluate it. But we
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: have a deadline of twelve hours.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, So in the spirit of sharing the love, we're
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: going to do some rapid fire about things that you love.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: So is there a podcast that you love?
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: So I love a lot of podcasts, and I feel
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: like I have to name those, but then tell you
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: my like new current thing. So I love SmartLess and
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: we can do hard things and dear Founder because I
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: think it celebrates really great stories of women running their businesses.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: But my new thing is I don't ask for podcasts recommendations.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: I ask for episode recommendation.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: I want people to give me their favorite interviews and
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: then I can just go like hyper target the best content.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: There's just too many podcasts now, Yes.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: Like I love SmartLess, but I really mostly love the
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: George Clooney episode.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Well who doesn't love George Clooney? Okay, what do you
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: feel most proud of right now?
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: I went into it earlier, but I just feel proud
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: that I had this client that was supposed to last
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: a month and a half and then suddenly five years
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: of a lapse. So the staying power, I mean, this
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: is longer than I don't even think I dated anybody,
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: but my husband even close to that. So this is
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: a long relationship.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: It's just saying that your mom or dad always said
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: to you growing up that plays in the back of
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: your mind.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: Still my dad loves and it has spread throughout the
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: entire family. You can open your mouth or you can
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: open your wallet. You decide, and it's about don't understand.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: It's almost like speak up or pay up.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is somebody who negotiates everything, and things
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: that like the shoes that are on sale at Dick's
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: Worting Goods, are negotiable. But the idea is you can
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: accept the terms that are given to you, or you
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: can negotiate or try to see if there is some flexibility.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: Just know you're worth otherwise you're kind of stuck.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: Paying for it. I've never heard that one Bob Gilman classic.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: What's a movie that you watch when you're sad?
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: So I'm a contagious crier, So anything like if you
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: teared up right now, I would tear up. I hear
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: people's emotions a little too much. But I love A
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: League of their Own, not because it's an inherently sad movie,
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: but the narrative arc is so beautiful. I love what happens,
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: and the sister story always reduces me to tears.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: That's really sweet. Okay.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Best life advice in four different categories. The best advice
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: someone gave you about life.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: I don't know that I have an explicit piece of advice,
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: but my dad is a very curious person, and I
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: think what I've gleaned from watching him ask questions over
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: my entire lifetime is that the better the questions you ask,
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: the more interesting answers you'll receive, which is basically your
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: whole ethos.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: You're on the right podcast for that one right now?
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: Yes, and just he wants to know people, and so
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: I think the life advice is like, be interested, ask
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: people questions and care about what they say.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Okay. Best advice about love?
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, my mom said to view relationships as building blacks.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: In my twenties, I had so many bad relationships, so
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: many breakups, so many heartbreaks, and I would just call
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: her and I would be so devastated every time, like, oh,
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: I just wasted all this time on another relationship that
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: didn't pan out. And she said, think about them as
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: building blacks. Every relationship you have gets you closer to
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: that next level. So these are foundational experiences that will
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: ladder up to something else. It's not time wasted, it's
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: time that you learn.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I love that. My best advice about friendships.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: There is a quote that has always stuck with me,
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: which is no time is wasted that makes two people
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: better friends. And so even though we can always get
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: caught up in the hustle fostel and be like, oh,
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: I don't have time for that phone call, I can't
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: do that coffee, I can't make that dinner, I just
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: always try to remember that the time I spend on
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: friendship is an investment in a wonderful long term relationship,
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: and it's never a waste.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful. Okay, how about best advice on writing?
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, so this is a later discovery, but I think
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: being pretty vulnerable is important. I wrote this essay over
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: COVID about my daughter and I and she asked me
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: if I was beautiful, and I froze, and it was
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: an unexpectedly triggering question about if I would use that
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: word with myself and what that word means, and sort
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: of like the journey to growing up and being a
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: late bloomer. And I wrote this essay and it lives
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: in the world, and I was like, I can't believe.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: I just bear to everything, like I really put my
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: stuff out on the internet.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: And I learned that later.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: Or a couple of people that were like, why did
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Rachel share that? But the majority of what I got
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: back that I tried to focus on instead was that
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: really resonated with me. I really understand that. As a
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: mother of a daughter, I am glad that you said that.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: I too struggled with growth efficiency and so I think
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: writing is a journey and I'm very much on it.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: But I don't regret going to places that are really
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: real and emotionally honest, because I think you have to
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: take that risk to have the bigger award. And if
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: I wrote something that was more pat or less real,
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't be very proud of it. And if it
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: makes someone a little uncomfortable that I shared a truth
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: of mine, then they're probably emotionally stunted themselves.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, I love that. What's a book that you've read
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: that changed your life?
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: Okay, this is not going to be maybe everyone's cup
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: of tea, but I am obsessed with the book that's
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: called Spirited by Rebecca Rosen.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: She's a spiritual medium. I might have sent you this book.
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: It's very it. You and I talk about mediums all
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: the time.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: Now most people don't have a favorite medium I do.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: I actually have a roster of mediums I like to follow.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: I love the inexplicable, Like if we can't think about
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: the bigger picture and why we're here and what we're doing,
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: what's the fucking point? Like, obviously I could talk endlessly
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: about the meaning of life and all these coincidences and
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: these introductions.
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: Like the older I.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: Get, the more I'm convinced that, like we don't know
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: it all and we never will, but like just trust
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: that maybe we're interconnected for reasons that are beyond our comprehension,
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: and to be very egotistical to think that we have
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: all the answers. So during COVID I went deep in
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: Rebecca Rose in Land. Although I've been a fan forever
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: and spirited even if you're not into a medium life,
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: it's just a beautiful book. It just talks about love
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: and kindness and family and the everlasting nature of connectedness
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: between people. And she's so normal. She could be somebody
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: in your or the mom at pickup. It's not as
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: though like you're getting some strange character. I think she's
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: pretty phenomenal. So spirited is my book recommendation. I send
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: it always. I see the deck of cards, dot dot dog.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: I know this is the PSQ, the pretty smart question,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: but I didn't mean to cut you off.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: You no, as I'm going on my rant about Rebecca,
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: I hope you're listening. I've been trying to meet you
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: for twenty years.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Let's manifest that. Okay. Because we're virtual, you have to
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: let me know when to stop.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: Stop.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: What's your superpower?
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: I think my superpower is that I can and will
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: talk to everyone. It doesn't mean they want to talk
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: to me, but I will always always strike up a conversation,
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: whether it's somebody in an airplane line. I mean I
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: was once on an airplane Danielle, and I badgered this
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: guy so much that I found out who was a
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: secret Service agent. You're not supposed to share that information.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: But I love to get to know people, and I
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: think because I'm both persistent and hopefully nice enough as
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: I'm doing it, it's.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Easy to I think it's your connectability. It's not even
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: that you'll talk to anybody. You have a really kind
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: way of doing it in a warmth. Okay, what is
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: the smartest decision you've ever made?
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: My smartest personal decision was marrying my wonderful husband, Rubin
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: and starting a family and having my twin daughters. But
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: the smartest professional decision I ever made was launching my
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: company and finally realizing that the best boss I'll ever
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: have is me. I should be in charge of my
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: own business.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Do you feel that for everybody or you felt that
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: I feel that for me.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: I think everyone is different, and I also think timing
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: is critical. I would never have been my best boss
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: earlier in my career. I think I needed to have
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: great examples, and I needed to have some pretty poor examples,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: just like dating and getting broken up with and realizing
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: those were not the right ones for me long term.
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: All those lessons and aggregate show you the real truth.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Rachel.
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: Thank you Danielle, You're the best.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I want to thank the people that make the show possible,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Colleen O'Neill, Jill Salama, Karrie O'Keefe, and Phil speed Tech. Okay,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: To have a good day.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: I'll see you next week.