Latest / Coffee Playdate Podcast with Dr. Olga Deengar / Small Career Experiments Beat One Big Reinvention : Dr. Scott Cameron Ep 50
Transcript
- Dr. Olga Deengar: Welcome to the Coffee Play Date Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Olga Deengar and today I have a very special guest with me, Dr. Scott Cameron. Welcome. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Thank you, Olga. Great to be here. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'm excited to get started. I always want to ask, do you drink coffee? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yes, I do. Dr. Olga Deengar: And how do you like your coffee? Scott F. Cameron, MD: so actually I take it two different ways. So if it's on a weekday, I take it black and I put in some MCT oil, which is medium chain triglycerides, which I've heard is a little bit of a healthier way to take your coffee. And then if it's a weekend day, I splurge a little bit and I have cream and sugar in with it. So depends on the day. Dr. Olga Deengar: very nice. Do you still add the MCT on the weekends too? Scott F. Cameron, MD: I don't because I found that not mix well with cream. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah. Scott F. Cameron, MD: So I have to pick one. I have to pick being a a healthy coffee drinker or just a more indulgent coffee drinker. Which one is it? Dr. Olga Deengar: Well, I like your strategy. Indulgent on the weekends. Awesome. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yes, exactly. Dr. Olga Deengar: Our first game is called a Rapid Fire Questions Game. I'm gonna ask you to choose between one answer or the other. You don't have to give an explanation as to why, just go with your gut instinct. Ready? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Okay, I'm ready. Dr. Olga Deengar: First question: a traditional promotion or a self-created opportunity? Scott F. Cameron, MD: a self-created opportunity. Dr. Olga Deengar: Cool. Next one is being known as except as an exceptional clinician or being known as a clinician who creates new possibilities for others. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Hm. I would say being known as a clinician creating new opportunities for others. Dr. Olga Deengar: Beautiful. Next one is one big professional reinvention or many small career experiments? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm. So I'm a big advocate of many small career experiments. Dr. Olga Deengar: Great. And the last one here, AI as a productivity tool or AI as a career design tool? Scott F. Cameron, MD: AI is a career design tool. Dr. Olga Deengar: Awesome. The next game is similar to this game, except now we both answer and if our answers match, then we take a sip from our coffee cups. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Okay, all right, I'm ready to roll. Dr. Olga Deengar: The first one here, reading a great essay or recording a great podcast conversation. Scott F. Cameron, MD: I would say recording a great podcast conversation. All right, cheers. Dr. Olga Deengar: Me too. Cheers. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm. Dr. Olga Deengar: Second question, a long weekend away or a full unplugged week? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Ooh. Tricky one. you know, these days I'm I'm really pining for that full unplugged week. All right, exactly. There we go. Cheers. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes. Me too. You get more days with that, right? Cheers. Next one is one beloved destination again or a completely new place every single time. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm. Completely new place every single time. All right. Yes. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes, me too. There's so much more to explore in this world. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: And the last one, a career chapter that felt comfortable or one that really stretched you. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Hm. I would say one that really stretched you. That's better for the long term. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes, me too. Here's to stretching. Scott F. Cameron, MD: There we go. Cheers. Dr. Olga Deengar: All right. So Scott, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and the amazing work that you're doing? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Sure. So I'm a radiologist and my practice is in the greater Boston area. I do pretty much the full spectrum of radiology. So I will read X-rays, read MRIs, read CTs, mammograms. I also do some procedural-based work. So specifically barium studies, I do joint injections for pain relief as well as joint injections before MRI or CT scan. And then I do a variety of things at my institution from the leadership perspective. So I sit on my institution's AI advisory board and I help to evaluate potential AI technologies that we want to integrate into our practice. I've also served in leadership roles with our state medical society, the Massachusetts Radiological Society, having previously been past president of that organization, and I've also been involved with some national. committee work with the American College of Radiology. and then I also do some work with clinical trials. So that includes both AI technologies and development as well as oncology, drugs, and development. So I'm a radiologist reader for those studies. And then my newest thing that I've layered onto that is my new business venture, which is called Physician Vantage Studio, which is about helping physicians that are mid-career explore the different things that they can do with their medical background while keeping their medical foundation. So specifically think about expansion within medicine as opposed to leaving medicine. And I help them evaluate opportunities, relationships, expertise that they have and ways that they can use that to create a more fulfilling, flexible and durable career. Dr. Olga Deengar: Wow. You have your hands full. A lot of things going on. Yeah. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah. There's a lot going on. Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: So tell me a little bit more about what sparked this idea of creating the Physician Vantage company studio. Yeah. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Studio. Yeah. So, what it was is it wasn't one sentinel moment where, one thing happened and then I said, okay, now I've got to do this. I think for me it was gradually building over time and realizing the trajectory that my career had taken to get to where I am today. And I think that as satisfying as my medical career is, I realized at a certain point that. I was only going to be able to achieve so much in that career in terms of not just how high up you can go in the ladder, but how much fulfillment you're going to have from doing those particular clinical activities. At least that's the way it felt for me. and so I always felt like there was more within me that I could do and other skills that I could, bring out and use in different and interesting ways. And I started to gradually do that as my career went on. So, for example, at one point I started to integrate advocacy work into my what I call professional portfolio and get involved with my state medical society and help advocate for causes that are important to patients and physicians. And I realized that that created this interesting activity that was complementary to my clinical practice and the two kind of like fed each other and made each one better. And then in similar fashion, when I started doing some of the AI work, that also used my brain in a different way, provided that spark of interest and variety on top of my clinical work. And again, was also complementary to what I was doing in the clinic. So as I started to layer on those experiences and realize how far I'd come in the journey from where I started out, back in the day with my first job and just kind of being a radiologist practicing in the hospital, I said, what, I really want to explore this further and see how are we doing this collectively as physicians and how can I help other physicians go on that path and on that journey and create these rich experiences that complement what they're doing as a physician and make their careers more fulfilling and flexible and durable without saying, okay, you've got to completely blow up your career and leave it behind. So for me it's like this culmination of a gradual path that I've been on for the past number of years. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, that's fascinating. How did you know what you were interested in? Like how did you know that you wanted to do more advocacy or AI work? How did you figure it out? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah, so I just really figured it out by doing and by my network and people that I've met along the way. I think a lot of it is serendipity, is being in the right place at the right time and you just bump into people and you see what they're doing. I think also what once you start to get good at building out your personal skills and your personal brand and sharing what you're doing, people start to approach you. with opportunities and and things that you could do. But a lot of it for me, Olga, was, somebody that I bumped into, whether it was in my practice or at, let's say, a state specialty society meeting, telling me, hey, I'm doing this particular activity. And then I said, hmm, that's interesting. Tell me about that. like what what do you do there and what's that all about and why do you like it? Right. and so I think a lot of it is these chance encounters that just kind of happened and nowadays it's I would say not nowadays, maybe starting a handful of years ago and maybe moving on, it started to become more intentional, where I started to reach out to more people and say, Hey, I've noticed that you're doing this. Can we set up a time to talk? And so I can learn, what are some things that you've done and that you've learned and advice you might have for me. but I think it all starts with seeing those personal examples of people that are doing something and engaging with them. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, and it sounds like you've gone to multiple conferences and are part of multiple communities. What value do you feel like you get from being part of communities of like-minded entrepreneurs? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. I think it's very valuable. I think we tend to become fairly insular in our profession on a day to day basis. and especially that's true for, physicians that are kind of behind the scenes, right? If you're a radiologist, a pathologist, maybe even like anesthesiologist. Like it it just depends. But I think a lot of us we either just interact with patients and the support staff, or we may just interact with computers for a large part of the day. And so you can kind of have your blinders on and you don't really know what other people are doing and what's going on. But when you have a community and you have other people that you can talk to and share ideas with and bounce things off of, it really helps to not just motivate you, but also provide that feedback that otherwise you just can't get, right? And it's it's very valuable to talk to somebody such as yourself and say, hey, what do you think about this thing that I'm thinking about or that I'm, trying to bring to life? And then having that gut check from someone else that's also a physician, physician entrepreneur, whatever the case may be, I think adds a lot of value. So so I think it's it's very important. I think for people who are just starting out, it's especially important because you have to get that activation energy to say, now I'm gonna actually put myself out there and do this, right? And if you don't have anyone and you're just practicing and you and you're just kind of doing it on your own, that could be a tough hurdle to clear. so I think the earlier you are in the journey, the more you need it. The later on you are, maybe the less you need it, but it all, kind of depends. But I think once you've got that sort of trajectory and your roadmap laid out, then you, need it maybe in pieces here or there. but particularly in the early days. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, in the early stages, it's really important to not just set a goal, but actually follow through with it. Like you said, you know, you can just say, Scott F. Cameron, MD: Thank you. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'm interested in real estate, or I'm interested in getting into venture capital work, or I want to do more expert witness work, whatever kind of your supplementary side hustle may be, you Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: can You can say it and you could say, yeah, I'd like to do that, but then actually taking that next step towards it, I think that's the hardest part for someone who's starting out to really overcome. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah There's the there's this definite, like, initial kind of resistance, that a lot of people have to face. maybe part of it is resistance, part of it is fear, part of it is worrying about what other people are gonna think, part of it is imposter syndrome. Like there's all these like different things that are working against you. Also identity, right? Like I talk about that in some of my writing, how we we're so solidly attached to this identity of like I'm the great clinician, providing great clinical care, right? And if you want to put on a new hat, whether that's a physician entrepreneur hat, whether that's a investor hat, whether it's a, AI leader hat, you have to have that confidence that you can do that. And if you've got other people around you showing you, hey, it can be done, it's a lot easier to do it. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes, the power of community. It's beautiful. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Dr. Olga Deengar: Let's talk a little bit about the mindset shifts that you needed to adapt as you were starting out on your entrepreneurial journey. What were some of the shifts you you've had to make? Scott F. Cameron, MD: I think one of the biggest mindset shifts is thinking about your expectations for what success looks like. I think we see a lot of people out there that have successful businesses or are doing something that's healthcare adjacent and you you have this hard time making the jump from where you are today to where you want to be, and drawing that connection with that other person. So for me, that mindset shift I had to make was, okay. Try not to think about how am I going to get from here to here so much. think about it from the big picture perspective, but also think about how am I going to get to from where I am today to that next checkpoint, to that next milestone, and set my expectation that That's what I'm going for and that's what I'm shooting for, and develop a plan. and and shifting from that mindset of, I've got to be, you know, successful by hitting this like long-term, milestone. So for me, it was about managing expectations. And then I think also another mindset, mindset shift related to that is allowing yourself some grace when you fall off the path or when you don't do things perfectly. because Because I know at least for me, I'm very much a perfectionist. I like to get things right. I like to make sure I hit all the goals and all of that kind of stuff. And when your best laid plans make contact with the reality of the clinical day, your family, the other obligations you have, it's not going to necessarily play out the way that you said it would, right? You're gonna have some setbacks, you're gonna have some moments of self-doubt, all those things are real. And so to shift to the mindset of do your best, and then understand that you're still able to get back on the horse and keep going, that I think was a huge shift for me. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, those are really great mindset shifts because it's not easy to recognize that from the get-go. we're always so goal-oriented. We are perfectionists, we kind of have to be. It's part of our job, it's part of our training. And Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: to step back from that and say, okay, this is where I want to be. X number of years from now, but let's chunk it down. Let's figure out what are those weekly action steps and then daily action steps that I need to take Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: in order get myself there. And you're right, you Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: have to have some self-compassion too, because you will have bad days and you'll have good days. And the bad days will make you feel like you're way behind and you're gonna Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: completely overlook the great days, the very productive days that you've had. So Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: there's always a different lens that we look through whenever we're faced with a challenge. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: So speaking of challenges, I'd love to know about a challenge that you faced on your entrepreneurial journey and how did you overcome that challenge? What specifically did you learn from it? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Sure. So I think one challenge that I faced was something that I'm gonna call the comparison trap. And that's when you are working on something, or I'll say when I'm I've been working on this new venture. And the more you kind of work on it and the more you look out there to see what other people are doing and sort of your competitive analysis, so to speak, you will eventually see some overlap with what some other people are working on, right? And I think that's natural that's natural and I think it's unavoidable. I think if you look at any particular domain and any business, there's going to be some overlap between what people are doing, right? And that's not a bad thing. I think that's okay. And I think in some cases those can be complementary and people can work together or can kind of inspire each other. But I think for me it was a challenge because sometimes I would see somebody working on something and I would say to myself, okay, maybe I can't do my version of this or do what I'm doing because it's already been done or because someone else is doing their version. And that was really for me like a big kind of mental block or a mental thing where I said, Okay, how do I sort of change what I'm doing? Or how do I search for a new thing that's totally unique, right? Or a totally totally unique offering. And it's very, very hard to do that because like I said, there's always going to be somebody out there doing something that's related in some way, shape, or form. And so for me, I had to get past that. And the way I did it was to not worry about what other people are doing and to not even necessarily look into it, but to just kind of focus on my own work and on my own things that I want to create and the value that I want to bring to people, let it speak from my heart. Let it be something that I say, this is what I've learned from my personal experience and what I want to share. And if it overlaps with what somebody else has experienced, so be it. that's okay. But but I'm allowed to say what I want to say and put my own perspective, my own value and all of that on it. And I think for me it was about kind of getting rid of those distractions to help me focus and get get the momentum behind what I'm working on. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'm curious to know how did you get rid of some of those distractions? Did you unsubscribe to some newsletters Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: or put a leave an app to block your access to Facebook or Instagram? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah, it's a it's right. that's a good question. It's hard to get rid of all those distractions. I think part of it for me was the mechanics. Like for example, on LinkedIn where I post some content about what I'm working on, I actively decided not to, read some of the other posts that LinkedIn is suggesting for me because it just kind of sends me down a tangent and And I get it. The algorithm is saying, here is some content that's related to what you're talking about. Maybe you might be interested. But for me, I found again that was largely more of a distraction for me, at least for where I am at right now. And so I actively decided just not to look at those things. and then the second piece to it is I just decided to do less kind of Googling and searching and that kind of thing and focus more on, me and my business and what's in front of me right now and again like that roadmap of what I want to hit, what I want to get done and just put on my blinders and focus on that. So Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, it's really hard to do. Easier said than done for sure, but Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah, it is. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'm amazed that you were able to do that. That's really great. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: So I want to shift gears a little bit here. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: I wanna ask you to tell me about an experience where you've gone above and beyond for somebody. Maybe it was a family member, a loved one, your team, whoever it was, how did you create a very meaningful, extraordinary experience for them? Can you tell me about a time like that? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. a meaningful and extraordinary experience. trying to think. I'll answer it by saying that I don't think there's necessarily one specific example, but maybe there's a few examples where combined they all add up to something meaningful and extraordinary. And I think what it is is as I've started to become more vocal. about what I'm working on, I've seen some people reaching out to me and asking about, advice on, how to pursue this decision or make this sort of decision where they're at professionally. And and I think that's been something that I've been receptive to and, talking to those people openly and helping them out. And actually as I'm talking about it, I can think of one example that also is related Where I had somebody reach out to me. She's a patient who, long story short, she had a bad experience with her healthcare journey. And she almost, got harmed in the process, but she recovered. And she decided to build a business around it. And it's centered around patient-doc communication and how we can sort of improve that facet it. And that's very central to her business. And so she reached out to me and said, Hey, I'm starting this podcast and I'd love to get your perspective because you've been involved in some quality and safety initiatives in the past. Would you be willing to share your story and help me promote what I'm working on? And it was very early for her. Like she had only done like a few of these kind of podcasts and interviews, and some of them weren't with physicians. And I said to myself, you know what? I'm gonna give her a chance. I'm gonna help her out and I'm gonna do it and help her spread her message. It's a worthwhile goal. And the long story short is that she was super appreciative of that. We did a nice interview. I actually published the the version of that on my website under the conversation section. And it was just a nice conversation with her that honestly didn't take a lot of my time. but it was so meaningful to her to say for her to be able to say, hey. There's another physician out there that believes in this mission and this cause and is willing to sit down with me and have the conversation and support me in the early days and take a chance on me. Right. And and I think for her, like that went a long way. And I I believe that that was certainly a meaningful and exceptional experience that I helped to create for her. and honestly, it didn't take a ton of input from me other than just saying, I'm ready and willing to do this with you. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, there's so much power in those small moments. Like you really don't know what conversation is going to impact the other person and the ripple effect that it's going to have. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And sometimes you just, you need someone to take a chance on you. And I think that's what she felt. And and that helps get that snowball going, right? and so I like to be that person where, I can help someone again get that ball rolling, get things off the ground and be that source of support. And I found that in my life people do that for me as well. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, you're a momentum starter. Scott F. Cameron, MD: That's right. Yeah. I like that. Dr. Olga Deengar: So Scott, what advice would you give to someone else who may be starting out in a similar space? Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I would say the advice I would give is try to look at things from the biggest picture perspective that you can. I find that a lot of people they hear about something, an idea, something that they could do, they latch onto it, and then maybe they kind of do a deep dive or go down the rabbit hole. And I think for me, I would advise those people to take like a wider perspective, look at things holistically and say, Where am I in my life? What do I want to achieve short-term, mid-term, long-term? What are the things that have been valuable to me? perhaps map out your core values and say, like, how am I expressing my core values in my daily life? and how does it all fit together? You know, for me as a physician, as a person, if you're a husband or a wife, if you're a mother, a father, right? Like, how do those things all fit together? And then kind of decide, okay. What do I think is that next piece that I want to layer on from an experience perspective and why? And then you tackle that. But I think you should be able to make a coherent argument for why you're looking into doing XYZ thing instead of just saying, like, that sounds interesting, or someone else is doing it, right? Because I think there is some value to doing those types of things just directly, but I think you have to. make it a little bit of a bounded experiment. otherwise you could just get caught up doing that thing for like years and then you realize like down the line, wait a minute, why, why am I even doing this? Right. Like why did I start to do this? So so that's my pr my advice for folks is to, is to start big and then kind of drill down. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yes, I love that. That it's basically looking Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: at what are the reasons that you want a particular result or particular outcome and then honing down on the values that are behind it, really making sure that all of that is aligned. Only then Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: can you map out the action steps that you would need for each goal. Beautiful. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah, absolutely. Mm-hmm. Dr. Olga Deengar: Now, a lot of our listeners like to read books. Is there a particular book that you'd recommend for entrepreneurs that are just starting out? Scott F. Cameron, MD: yeah, I would say so a book for entrepreneurs that are just starting out. there's one that I like. It's called The Perfect Week Formula. and it's by Craig Ballantyne I like that one because he kind of lays out how to structure your week and set yourself up for success. And there's some good visualization exercises in there, like how to kind of run a video in your mind of what the successful week will look like and your highlight reels and some structural pieces behind it. so I would recommend that one again to folks. Yeah, it's called the perfect week formula. Dr. Olga Deengar: That's a great recommendation. I haven't actually heard of it, so I'm gonna put Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah. Dr. Olga Deengar: it on my to read list. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Mm-hmm. Check it out. Dr. Olga Deengar: Great. And Scott, I always like to ask my guests to give us more information as to where our listeners can find you if they want to connect with you. Scott F. Cameron, MD: Yeah, great. So so I recommend people go to my website, which is physicianvantage.com. and it's all one word, physicianvantage.com. And on that site I've got a collection of essays and frameworks about how physicians can build career options with more leverage, more control, more flexibility and durability. I've got some conversations that I've recorded with other physicians on there as well. And I've also got a free document on there which talks about the five forms of physician leverage and how you can utilize those in your life. and then I'm also going to be releasing a new tool on there which is gonna be very interesting for folks as they start to think about the next step in their career evolution. and that tool should be live any moment now so feel free to go to that site to check out all of those. Dr. Olga Deengar: That's excellent. Thank you so much, Scott. We had such a great conversation today. It's been a pleasure having you on the Coffee Playdate podcast. And I hope you have a great week. Scott F. Cameron, MD: All right. Thanks so much, Olga. It's been great talking with you.