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How Jeff Thorne Built Trust Leading Minnesota's Largest No-Charge Hospice Residence · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotasbodi,
0:17
and today's guest is Jeff Thorne, president and CEO of Our
0:21
Lady of Peace Hospice and Home Health Care.
0:25
They are a nonprofit in St. Paul, MN dedicated to delivering
0:29
compassionate end of life care. Their mission is to address the
0:34
physical, emotional and spiritual needs of patients
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through in home Hospice, home health services, and a 21 bed
0:43
residential Hospice that operates free of charge.
0:47
Thanks to generous donors, Jeff has served in senior leadership
0:51
roles across nonprofit healthcare, senior housing, and
0:55
rehabilitation for roughly 25 years.
0:58
Before joining Our Lady of Peace in 2022, he held positions at
1:03
Volunteers of America, St. Therese, and Serenity Marion of
1:07
Saint Paul, building a reputation for guiding teams
1:10
with both empathy and expertise. Now before we get into all that
1:15
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AD back benefits.com. All right, back to our guest
2:01
today, President and CEO of Our Lady of Peace Hospice and Home
2:05
Care, Jeff Thorne. Thanks for making the time to
2:07
Share your story today. Hi, Anthony, great to be here.
2:10
Great to meet you in person. Well.
2:12
Yeah, virtually in person. Yeah, Best we can do today being
2:16
in two different states. So, Jeff, what first attracted
2:20
you into the healthcare space overall?
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Well, actually I go back to my my days in College in in growing
2:26
up, I always thought I wanted to be a veterinarian.
2:31
Started my college life with a pre veterinary medicine track
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and midway through my sophomore year kind of figured out maybe
2:41
it wasn't the best track for me. So I actually started working
2:46
quite a bit with the college's Career Center and, and you know,
2:53
this is back in the mid, late 80s, so long time ago, but they
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had a lot of different tools to use to help me kind of figure
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out where my personality was the best fit, where my skills might
3:04
be the best fit. Healthcare leadership came out
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very, very high. So I took that and started doing
3:12
some informational interviews with executives and different
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healthcare organizations, both on the acute care side, hospital
3:21
side, as well as long term care side.
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And I will be forever grateful for those individuals and just
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their willingness to spend 30 minutes with this college kid at
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that time. And then you know how it works
3:38
at the at the end of each interview, I'd ask, is there
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anybody else you might suggest? I talked to you and they kept
3:42
referring me to somebody else. So just really learned a lot
3:46
more about long term care, about acute care, leadership
3:50
management and really felt it was a, a good fit.
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So made a change with my degrees and ended up with a business
3:58
degree. And then I actually did a couple
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of internships, you know, just to try to really explore
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further. I, I determined I wanted to be
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more on the long term care side and that kind of brought out a
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little bit more of. Did you determine that before
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you got into the field, just from some of those conversations
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that you were? Having I did, yeah, through the
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through the informational interviews and and what in
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hindsight looking back on it, I think what it did is it brought
4:24
out a little bit more of that entrepreneurial spirit that I
4:27
have in that in the long term care side organizations are
4:32
much, much flatter. So as an administrator, I had
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responsibility as well as insight and opportunities to
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work, you know, in finance related things, marketing, care
4:46
delivery and all of these different aspects as opposed to
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a more vertical organization where you can have a department.
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So that that really fit well. I did a couple of different
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internships, 1 towards the end of my college career, 1
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postgraduate in the in the long term care field, post acute care
5:07
field and really did that intentionally where one was with
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a for profit organization and one was with a not-for-profit or
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nonprofit organization. Both organizations, very, very
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good organizations, but I just kind of felt and and learned
5:24
that the nonprofit side was a much better fit for myself.
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How so? What?
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What really attracted you to that?
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Yeah, I think it's a a sense of a strong mission, a sense of
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even at that point without being able to label it kind of a
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little bit more of a servant leader in focused on certainly
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doing what's right, providing excellent care for people in
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times of need, but doing that without having as strong of an
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emphasis maybe on financial outcomes.
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Now, nonprofits, you know, we still need to try to have a
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bottom line, but it gets reinvested right back into the
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organization. Got it.
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And so you took this test at, you know, when when you were
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going through the vet track, right, going to vet Med and that
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wasn't a fit for you. So you took this test and you
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know, it says, hey, you know, healthcare administration, good
6:23
fit. And so you rolled up your
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sleeves. You had a whole bunch of
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informational interviews. You heard things that you liked
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and then you got started in some internships and through some of
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these internships from work experiences, you figure out that
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the nonprofit track that is a better fit for you, right?
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And and so you kind of move your way through some different stops
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as, as you kind of think back to some of the previous career
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stops for you, Jeff, prior to getting to Our Lady of Peace
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Hospice, can you recall maybe one big like learning moment in
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terms of like operational challenges and how that
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influences or informs how your approach leadership today?
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Sure. I think 1 was when I became went
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from a position of operating a single site to overseeing
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multiple sites. That was a job change to do
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that. So more of a what was called a
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regional director of operations. So having multiple locations
7:25
under my responsibility and with that organization we were
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building for not not only multiple sites, but multiple
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sites in different states. So then we were built going to
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build a new facility, a rehab facility and half of it was
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rehab and half of it was a geriatric psychiatric hospital
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and steep learning curve with, with the, the hospital part.
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We had a, a partner that was going to manage that facility
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for us. But I was kind of one of the
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primary contacts in operationally working with them,
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but going through the process of of learning how to operate
8:06
another state, learning how to oversee people in these
8:10
buildings remotely and not being there all the time learned a
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lot. And my person, you know, that I
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reported to was great. He was very supportive, but he
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was very hands off as well. So it was an really opportunity
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for me to really stretch myself. Had to learn a lot relatively
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quickly. And then with building a
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building, you know, with three, four states away took, took some
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effort and then took a lot of quick learning to figure out how
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to do that. And yet still, you know, know
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all the details, be overseeing progress, be making sure we're
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hitting the timelines. There's a whole lot of
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regulatory requirements, Joint Commission types of
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requirements, and just really working through all of those.
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So, you know, it's one thing to be taking on all of these new
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responsibilities and challenges when you're on site.
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It's a whole other thing when, like you said, you're 4 states
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away and you're trying to level up on something completely new.
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Who did you go to? Where was the support for you?
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Who was kind of a mentor during this time?
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My boss was certainly, you know, I'd check in with him and he
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would, you know, want to make sure things were on track in
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that organization. We had a great team of what we
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call consultants, but they were internal people that had
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specialty in different areas. So I'd certainly be leaning on
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them as we were going through it.
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We had a a development company that was helping, working
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through, you know, even helped a little bit with the financing,
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but the pro formas help with the project management.
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So leaning on them as well to just keep track and learn.
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I had to though, I felt like really learn a lot about that
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market quickly. I probably had responsibilities
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overseeing other buildings in that market for about a year
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before we started building. Not only to understand, you
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know, kind of the laws and the building requirements, but
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certainly just understanding the market and what those
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individuals want in a, in a rehabilitation facility.
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And we're trying to do something that was a little bit different,
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not looking like a nursing home, but truly be a rehab facility
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that could physical rehab that could attract maybe a little bit
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younger population as well. You made a comment earlier
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about, you know, in the nonprofit space, you were
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attracted to the idea of servant leadership, even though that was
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a term that you didn't really have a word for.
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Then explain how your attraction to that or your belief in that
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approach unfolded. Probably honestly, that approach
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from my dad and even my grandfather, I mean, it's that
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you roll up your sleeves and you get in the weeds and, and you
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help people and you do what's right in society basically.
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But from a leadership standpoint, it's it for me, it's
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one that believes very strongly that a collaborative approach,
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it is a better approach, identifying your key leaders and
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working with them and growing with them, including them and
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key decisions where you can and getting their feedback to make
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those decisions. I feel like those decisions are
11:43
better if we involve the right people in them rather than me in
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my office doing it by myself. So I think it it, it goes back
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at the way I was raised, you know, to a large extent that,
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you know, you never too good to do something.
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Don't ask someone to do something you wouldn't do
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yourself. I mean just those age-old types
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of values that were instilled in me.
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So let's talk about how you came to join Our Lady of Peace
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Hospice. I understand there is, even
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though you've only been there a few years, there was sort of a
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30 year arc of how this all unfolds.
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Yeah, yeah, very interesting and and just kind of a testament I
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think to networking in the value of professional relationships.
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So I'm literally a 23 year old kid, you know, a year out of
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college and I, I start my first position as a care center
12:38
administrator and I'm in a small rural community.
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I grew up in the suburbs, so a little bit of a culture shock,
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but I get there at 23 years old. One day out of the blue, I get
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this phone call from someone who's about 1/2 hour away in
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another community, larger community, but still rural.
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And he just welcomed me to the to the area and said, hey, let's
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go have lunch, get a chance for you to meet me and I can meet
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you. Took him up on it was great.
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Over a 30 year time period, we'd see each other at conferences.
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We once in a while might, you know, chat on the phone or
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something. But then Fast forward to what
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now is probably about five years ago.
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He reached out of me, reached out to me out of the blue and
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said he was starting to think about retirement and would I be
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interested in throwing my hat in the ring for his position at Our
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Lady of Peace. And, you know, at that point, I
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said, no, thank you. I'm very happy what I'm doing
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and, and where I am. And it was somewhat relatively
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new to that organization at the time.
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And I said the timing's not right for me.
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It's, it's too soon for me to leave.
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I just got here. Thankfully he called me a couple
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more times over about a, you know, 1218 month period.
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And finally I said, OK, let's go have lunch again.
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So we had lunch and I learned a lot more about Our Lady of Peace
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in the organization and I came for a couple visits with him
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just to learn more. And then finally, after a lot of
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conversation with my wife, I, I called him and said, Hey, I, I
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think I want to throw my hat in the ring when your board is
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ready and when they put together their search process, let me
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know if you don't mind, and I'll throw my hat in the ring.
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So that it, it, it was great. Now, you know, another layer to
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that is once there's a, a person, part of our leadership
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here at a lady of peace that I used to work with probably about
14:51
14 years ago, we work together. And I found out kind of after
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the fact that she encouraged or threw my name in as well as
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someone that might be good, a good fit for this organization.
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So it it yeah, took a / a thirty year period for that to kind of
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come to fruition. But, and took me a little bit of
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time to finally say, yeah, let me learn more.
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But thankfully I did. But you know, I think things
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happen for a reason. And, and thank goodness my
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predecessor was persistent with trying to reach out to me.
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You know, I love this story. It, you know, highlights the
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importance of your network, right?
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And for some people, networking is kind of AI don't know, an
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uncomfortable kind of almost sticky word 'cause I think, you
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know, I won't speak for everybody.
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I know early in my life I went to networking events and it, it
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felt like, you know, everybody's just sort of like we know, can
15:47
can you give me something like, you know, that kind of a thing?
15:49
And that's not what you're describing here.
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Like, you were developing like genuine friendships, right?
15:54
There was no transactional value in mind as you got to know these
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people. These were just nice people that
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were in the same field and you'd stay in touch and confirm for
16:06
me. Is this the way that you kind of
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think about networking? Jeff Yeah, absolutely,
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absolutely. And I think, you know, I don't
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know about other industries or professions necessarily, but for
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mine in in healthcare, it gets to be a pretty small little net,
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you know, community of, of healthcare people throughout the
16:24
state. I'm located in Minnesota and
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people know each people know people.
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And certainly later in my career, you know, after that
16:35
first or second position that I had, that become pretty clear
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pretty quickly that a lot of times the positions you get are
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based on kind of who knows you, who knows your integrity, who
16:47
knows your successes that you've built throughout your career.
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And that is is a lot of times more valuable for people than
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sitting in an interview with someone they don't know.
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I can tell you every, maybe every opportunity that, you
17:05
know, door that's open for me in my life is come through a
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relationship that I had that was not of a transactional nature
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before. Yeah, somebody I knew, you know,
17:15
just somebody I had a good relationship with.
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And they right, just like you're saying, they come to understand
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what your personality is like, what your experiences are like,
17:23
what you're good at, and then those are the people that come
17:26
knocking on your door. So yeah, I think it is just a
17:29
good moment to kind of do a sidestep and highlight that for
17:31
folks. The importance of doing that.
17:33
Start building your network now, invest in it, invest in people.
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And I, I think that's really the way to to sort of couch that.
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So OK, now I want to talk about what are the services that you
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guys provide? What is it that you guys do at
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Our Lady of Peace Hospital? So Our Lady of Peace, we've been
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around as of this month, 84 years here in Saint Paul.
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And you know, a little bit of our history.
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We were founded by Catholic nuns that came from Hawthorne, NY,
18:07
Dominican sisters and they came to Saint Paul and they started
18:11
providing end of life care in 1941.
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Grand opening for their building, which was an old
18:18
telephone company building that they renovated into being able
18:24
to provide care. Their grand opening was on
18:26
December 7th, 1941. So on Pearl Harbor Day is when
18:31
they they opened the doors and started caring for people, which
18:34
to me kind of goes partly to their perseverance of of
18:38
providing great care even as Pearl Harbor Day was occurring.
18:44
But Fast forward today, excuse me today, we are a Catholic
18:52
organization, but we care for everyone.
18:54
But based on those found, the foundations that those sisters
18:58
built for us, we provide home health care out in the
19:02
community. So a 25 mile radius from Saint
19:05
Paul where we're located and that's rehabilitative home
19:09
health care, PTOT, speech, kind of wound care management, those
19:14
types of things, nothing to do with end of life care.
19:18
Other part of our organization provides end of life care and
19:21
Hospice care. So we do that out in our
19:25
community, meaning we go, our staff go out into individuals
19:29
private homes, into assisted living, into nursing homes and
19:32
provide Hospice care. Again, 25 mile radius from here
19:36
in Saint Paul. And then a part that makes us
19:39
pretty unique is we've got this, you mentioned 21 bed Hospice
19:44
residence building here in Saint Paul in Minnesota. 21 beds is
19:49
the largest in the state. We have some special legislation
19:54
allowing us to exceed the state maximum for that.
19:59
And the other very unique thing about us is, as you mentioned,
20:05
no one gets a bill for being here.
20:07
So we do not charge patients or family members for the care we
20:12
give them here in the Hospice residence.
20:15
Now we do bill Medicare. Which is the primary payer for
20:19
Hospice care, but there's no co-pays, there's no deductibles,
20:24
there's there's absolutely no bill for people.
20:27
And so that leaves an enormous hole in our budget each year
20:33
because. Medicare doesn't reimburse
20:35
nearly enough to keep the operation.
20:36
Running no it doesn't and and the Medicare payment is really
20:40
focused or based on kind of a community based Hospice approach
20:44
like we do 25 miles out. So the Medicare payment rate
20:48
does not cover the cost of a building, the cost of 24 hour, 7
20:54
day a week staff of, you know, a maintenance department, of food
20:58
service department, housekeeping, all those other
21:01
services that come with a building are not.
21:03
So you're saying that really the Medicare model is set up to
21:07
reimburse for just home Hospice care, correct?
21:11
Sorry, go ahead. No, yes, that's correct.
21:14
So other Hospice residences will will charge a private pay fee
21:18
typically to cover that building expense, that 24 hour staffing
21:23
models that they need. And the sisters never did that.
21:27
And we've been able to carry through their mission for 84
21:30
years. So we do a substantial amount of
21:35
fundraising and we've got, you know, a very large group of just
21:41
incredibly committed donors that help support our mission and
21:46
more donors every day, every week that support our mission.
21:51
What is the fundraising look like?
21:53
Are you guys holding like an annual gala?
21:55
Is there, you know, you've got people on the phone dialing and
21:58
smiling? It's it's most impactful with
22:04
people that we've cared for in their family.
22:06
We don't do a lot of events. We did have an event recently
22:11
which which is an annual celebration of life.
22:13
We do a butterfly release in the summer months and we have a a
22:18
spring luncheon. Those are really our events.
22:21
Every five years or so we'll do a gala, and those events take
22:27
especially a real large gala. They take a lot of staff time, a
22:31
lot of energy. There's a lot of expense
22:33
associated with them. As an organization, we are
22:37
extremely lean with our fundraising.
22:40
So for every dollar we raise, we're spending about 15 to maybe
22:45
$0.18 to raise that dollar. The the standard out there is
22:50
closer to 2425 cents. So we're very lean on what we
22:55
do, but it's all about donor relationships and just making
23:00
that contact and making sure communicating why we're doing
23:06
what we're doing. And to be honest with you, I
23:08
don't think you could write a better story than what has
23:12
unfolded for Our Lady of Peace. Said more about that.
23:16
Well, just yeah, yeah, our our story, just the founded by
23:21
Catholic nuns caring for everybody.
23:24
Those nuns used to teach, you know, our staff that it doesn't
23:29
matter if you're the Bishop or if you're homeless, you're
23:31
welcome here and you're going to get excellent care.
23:34
So we still do that today. Yes, we're a Catholic
23:37
organization, but it because of our Catholic social teaching
23:41
that we care for everyone. Less than half of the patients
23:44
we care for are Catholic. Our chaplain team, you know, we
23:49
have Catholic, we have Lutheran, Jewish, Protestant, we really
23:54
try to meet the patient where they are.
23:58
And you know, we are able to do that through the generous donors
24:02
at no charge for someone. So that that that providing
24:09
excellent care is one thing that takes a whole lot of energy and
24:12
time and reputation. But to be able to do that at no
24:16
charge to people? That's.
24:18
Incredible. Yeah, it it's just an incredible
24:19
story. You said that you guys at 21
24:23
beds, you're the largest facility of the kind in the
24:27
state of Minnesota and that even you needed to get some sort of a
24:30
state exemption to do that. Why are the state laws requiring
24:35
that facilities be so small? Yeah.
24:38
I think that law was based in and that law I think goes back
24:42
to the 80s or or 90s. It goes back a little ways I
24:46
think. But I think it, it was based on
24:48
trying to keep a Hospice building more residential
24:54
feeling. Now we take a little bit
24:57
different approach too than some other Hospice residences do in
25:00
that we focus on patients that are assessed to be within about
25:06
the last 30 days of their life. So it's a, it's a very much of A
25:11
medical model. On average a patient is with us
25:15
here in this building for about 12 days before they pass away.
25:20
But the most common length of stay is literally one or two
25:25
days. So people are coming to us very
25:29
frail and, and we have, you know, with our staff, they are
25:34
absolutely incredible and they've developed expertise in
25:38
in end of life care and just surrounding not only the
25:42
patient, but the family with support, with education about
25:48
the process and and just love. I mean it.
25:53
Our staff are absolutely incredible for what they do and
25:57
sometimes at the very, very literally, very short period of
26:00
time we have to make an impact on them and provide that care
26:07
when they both need it at the end of their life.
26:12
So putting myself in my own shoes, but I'm sure a lot of
26:17
listeners are, you know, wondering this kind of thing as
26:20
well. You know, when we've got a loved
26:22
one who approaches that point in their lives, what can we expect?
26:27
Like help walk us through what that process might look and feel
26:31
like? Well, typically you know, at
26:34
least with the Hospice residents, about 70% of the
26:38
patients that come to us are coming directly from a hospital.
26:41
So, so some of our patients may be getting Hospice care from
26:46
another Hospice organization or our own Hospice organization out
26:50
in the community, but many are not.
26:52
So it's, it's a very difficult time of a family member hearing
26:59
about a terminal diagnosis many times for the first time or
27:03
hearing that it's, you know, there are no longer valid
27:08
treatment options for someone. So it, it's a lot for a family
27:12
to deal with. And many times if they are in
27:14
the hospital, it's we need to help you find a place of where
27:19
your loved one can go and need to try to make that decision in
27:22
the next couple days. So it's a, it's a a lot of
27:25
burden on a family very quickly. And for most people, unless
27:29
they've had other loved ones go through it, they don't know the
27:33
process that it's difficult to navigate.
27:35
So the hospital staff are very helpful.
27:38
You know, other, you know, community types of groups are
27:41
helpful. Word of mouth is, is very
27:44
important. You know, we're kind of like
27:45
that networking. I mean, people reach out to
27:48
family members, to friends that have gone through it to try to
27:50
learn how to navigate. But for us, you know, that that
27:57
hospital discharge planner, that physician in a clinic, whatever
28:01
it might be, you know, is encouraging Hospice care.
28:03
And as a social worker or someone that's helping, you
28:06
know, reach out many times, you know, families don't even know
28:10
where to start. So they may have, well, here's a
28:12
few options of organizations to look at, but you know, it's it's
28:18
patient choice. They need to decide where they'd
28:20
like their loved one to go to get Hospice care.
28:23
And a part of that decision making is determining whether or
28:26
not their loved 1 can be at home and get Hospice or whether they
28:30
need more of a 24 hour a day care support around their person
28:36
depending on on how they're doing.
28:38
So there's a whole lot of factors, decisions that happen
28:42
very quickly. What we do is when they make
28:45
contact with us, as we try to answer all those questions, we
28:49
really try to help as best we can.
28:51
And even if they don't come to us, we're still going to try to
28:55
really help that person make the right decisions for themselves.
28:59
And then we have to then work directly with the physician, the
29:04
hospital to get, you know, copies of medical records and
29:07
things to make sure we can provide care for that person and
29:12
get it set up. And, and then ours, whether the
29:14
person comes here to the Hospice resident, our team, you know,
29:18
is, is ready and waiting for their arrival.
29:20
And typically it's by ambulance that they come to us and, and
29:24
then we get them into bed and we we start working with the
29:28
family. Start working with the family.
29:30
Start working to make the patient comfortable, right?
29:35
In your experience, you know, having done this for a long
29:37
time, what's the thing that surprises the loved ones the
29:41
most about the process? The complexities around it, you
29:47
know, Hospice care is a little bit easier from a payment
29:51
standpoint in that it's typically Medicare.
29:54
But if you've got someone that doesn't have Medicare under the
29:57
age of 65, it, it can be more complicated.
30:01
Just trying to figure out if you've got a health insurance
30:03
plan that might cover some of the costs.
30:06
So that can be extremely complicated.
30:09
I talked to friends, I talked to someone earlier this week, just
30:14
trying to navigate that, that that their mom has a Medicare
30:20
Advantage plan. Do I need that?
30:21
Is that the right thing is should I have straight Medicare?
30:24
It it's a very complicated system.
30:27
So when you stepped into the CEO role here at Our Lady of Peace
30:31
Hospice back in, you know, late 2022, so about 3 years ago, what
30:35
were some of the immediate priorities that you wanted to
30:39
address there? You know, I in working with our
30:43
boards search committee and going through that process, one
30:47
of the things that the search committee asked for was, I'm
30:51
assuming for, you know, all of the candidates or the final
30:54
candidates was what's your one year plan?
30:58
And I remember when I was putting that together, I wanted
31:01
it to be very thoughtful, but I wanted hopefully to be able to
31:04
utilize it. So I put a lot of energy into it
31:07
and hung on to it. And the the approach I took is
31:12
even during the search process and then talking to my
31:17
predecessor, I did a lot of research to understand the
31:20
organization. I didn't see any immediate red
31:23
flags, but I told the board as well, I felt it was very
31:26
important that I do my own assessment so that I can really
31:30
dig into things quickly and try to make sure or find out if
31:35
there were immediate needs that I needed to deal with very
31:40
quickly to get on that right away.
31:41
So I did, you know, financial assessment, kind of a care
31:45
related assessment, you know, what liabilities did we have?
31:50
What, you know, types of things might be going on And thankfully
31:55
I think we're very good as I expected, but wanted to assure
31:58
myself of that. And then I started spending a
32:02
lot of time talking to our staff, one-on-one small groups.
32:08
And I don't just mean leaders, I mean people delivering care at
32:12
the bedside, why they were here. What what do they think is
32:18
really going well? What might we do a little bit
32:20
better? I met one-on-one with each one
32:23
of our board members. I started making contact with
32:26
some of our key donors and having similar conversations
32:30
with them and just understanding better why people have chosen to
32:35
be connected with Our Lady of Peace and those questions around
32:41
what do we do really, really well and maybe what could we do
32:43
a little bit better. That started forming for me kind
32:48
of what turned into a strategic plan or kind of identifying
32:52
those key objectives in that first year of what was most
32:56
critical that we start working on.
33:00
And what was that? You know it, it was for me, it
33:04
was primarily because things, you know, we're going well,
33:07
there weren't immediate crises. It was building trust as
33:09
quickly, quickly as I could. I was following someone that had
33:13
been with the organization and kind of threw a merger for 30
33:16
years. So some big shoes to fill and
33:20
and people that had a whole lot of comfort working with with
33:24
him. So I wanted to not have any kind
33:28
of a mass exodus, you know, of some key leaders or other staff.
33:33
We're not that large of an organization couldn't afford
33:37
that. So, and even with board member
33:40
that was just trying to advance as quickly as I could to build
33:44
that trust to get that relationship deep as quickly as
33:49
I could. And then really again working,
33:53
starting to work on a strategic plan and and what we should be
33:55
kind of most focused on. So you know 84 year history of
34:01
Our Lady of Peace, you know, undoubtedly things that evolved
34:06
and changed over time. Are there any current or even
34:10
upcoming innovations that you're working on?
34:14
Excited about technologies, staff training, community
34:17
outreach, anything that really gets you excited.
34:19
Yeah, there are. You know, the 84 history is
34:23
wonderful. I mean, I'll tell people, you
34:26
know, I could list organizations that would pay just about
34:28
anything to have our reputation and have the foundation that
34:31
we've built. It's our greatest asset.
34:35
But there's always things we can improve on and there's always
34:38
better ways we can do things. So, you know, technology is
34:41
always something that's easy to, you know, maybe just not quite
34:45
stay up to date. Our electronic medical record
34:48
system was outdated, very outdated.
34:52
So just a couple months ago we implemented a new system which
34:57
took a lot of effort, collaborative effort, working
35:00
through that with our folks. And you know, so far good
35:04
results. But we're what now probably two
35:07
months in with that new system, but there's new opportunities
35:12
with that new system that we haven't even uncovered yet.
35:14
It's just better processes, more efficiency with staff.
35:19
There's things still upcoming, could be some things kind of
35:24
built into the system that we just haven't uncovered yet
35:27
around AI opportunities and how that might streamline some
35:31
things we do. But it's that that's been very
35:35
good for us, very exciting. But I think it opens the door
35:38
for other opportunities going forward too, related technology.
35:44
Either 2 fold question here, how are you guys using AI today, if
35:49
at all? And two, as you think about
35:51
other ways to use this new platform and leverage AI there,
35:54
what are some things that you're excited about going towards?
35:57
Sure. We've kind of just dipped our
36:00
toe a little bit into some AI things now, not across the
36:03
organization. There's a handful of people that
36:06
have some access to some AI things.
36:08
And so right now it's more about summarizing documents,
36:13
summarizing, you know, different regulations, summarizing emails,
36:18
helping us, you know, just work through that, helping us with
36:21
some communication types of things.
36:23
So, so pretty entry level in my opinion.
36:27
I think with our new EMR, there's, there's some
36:29
opportunity there already just built into the system with how
36:33
it analyzes things. There's going to be future for
36:37
that as well. You know, I've had some of our
36:39
caregivers talk to me quite a while ago even about wanting to
36:44
use AI to help with patient charting, you know, and being
36:48
able to customize it obviously and making it very patient
36:53
centered, but just helping with some of that time that it takes
36:57
to do that documentation. We're not there yet.
37:00
And one of the things that I'm very cautious of and, and we are
37:05
as an organization is the protection of any patient
37:09
information. So we don't, you know, we don't
37:12
use AI for anything patient related at this time just
37:16
because we haven't worked through to make sure it's all
37:19
HIPAA compliant and privacy protected appropriately.
37:23
But I think there's a lot of opportunity there.
37:25
What do you think the execution of that patient charting looks
37:28
like? Is it sort of like a voice to
37:32
text kind of a, a thing so that, you know, they're not spending
37:35
time writing. It's just like, you know, hey,
37:37
they got 5 minutes in the hallway and they're making a
37:40
little voice note and that kind of gets inserted into the chart.
37:43
I think it, yeah, I think it absolutely could be voice to
37:46
text. There's some software's out
37:48
there, you know, that do some of that, but I think there's also
37:51
opportunities around reviewing could be different types of
37:59
blood pressure, temperature, you know, all of those different
38:03
types of measurements and things that we do.
38:05
And there's other things that happen, you know, around end of
38:08
life care that, you know, AI device could summarize that much
38:15
quicker, but also could maybe even make, you know, some
38:18
recommendations about based on this, this and this, you know,
38:22
it, it's go this route. You know, we've got some pretty
38:28
prescribed methodologies for care delivery and medication use
38:35
and, and what types of things like that, But there could be
38:38
opportunities there as well. I think with, with AI and it's
38:41
just my hope. It's not to ever for us replace
38:47
staff, but it's to make staff more efficient and maybe a
38:52
little bit less time in front of a computer and more time with
38:55
the patient. That's our focus.
38:57
That, that's amazing, right? Because it's that human, human
39:00
connection in any field, but particularly the type of work
39:04
that you guys do, that's so important.
39:06
You know, right, Yeah, yeah, I've had some of our nurses.
39:09
We did a a renovation a few years ago of our building in
39:13
addition of a couple more wings that created all private patient
39:17
rooms, which is critical I feel in end of life care.
39:21
But we put in computers in every room like much like many
39:24
hospitals do in each patient room, so staff could, could
39:28
document right there. Well, couple years and we've
39:30
actually removed those 'cause they just weren't being used by
39:33
staff and many of our staff just did not want that computer
39:38
between themselves and their patient.
39:41
It needs to be much more of a human interaction.
39:44
So. So, so the time spent in the
39:48
room, they are with the patient, they are 100% fully present.
39:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yet to talk about staff,
39:56
like again, in any industry, your frontline staff is so
40:00
critically important. That's the face of the company,
40:02
right? That's how people relate to who
40:05
you are and make judgments about the service that's being
40:08
provided. But.
40:09
Man, it's so critically important in the kind of work
40:12
that you guys do. It's such a sensitive, you know,
40:15
time of somebody's life. How do you guys approach the
40:20
hiring, the, the interviewing process?
40:23
And then, you know, when you've got good folks, how do you hold
40:27
on to them? You know, going back to when I
40:30
first came to Our Lady of Peace and spending some time visiting
40:34
with our staff and our frontline caregiving staff, one of the
40:38
things I heard over and over from our folks, and I'm talking
40:41
about folks that have 20-30 years with us, is that it's not
40:46
a job. This is a calling.
40:48
I'm called to do this work. So they have very personal,
40:52
deep, personal reasons why they want to care for people at end
40:57
of life. But for us, and this at our work
41:01
here at Our Lady of Peace, really emphasize this.
41:03
I've heard it a lot throughout my career.
41:05
You know, you hire for fit, hire for the culture, you know, those
41:09
kinds of thing. It is paramount for us.
41:11
So we absolutely do want to hire people that are all in with our
41:17
mission that fit our culture and we want technical expertise.
41:24
But if there's some things that maybe they're not quite there
41:28
yet, we can teach that if they have the right fit and the right
41:31
culture. So we spend, you know, a lot of
41:34
time in an interview talking about our history, talking about
41:38
who we are, what we do and why we do it, and really try to
41:41
gauge their level of commitment to that mission.
41:46
Again, depending on the position.
41:49
You know, this healthcare community is a small community.
41:52
So many times someone knows someone that knows someone.
41:56
We are blessed that we have some staff that come and work for us
42:02
on an on call or casual basis. So no, no position or schedule
42:09
in the hopes of getting one when one comes open.
42:12
So we've got folks that are working with us, you know, with
42:16
the hopes of getting a more regular position and obviously
42:19
we get to know them very well. During that time period, too,
42:22
almost like a substitute teacher, kind of a setup, kind
42:25
of. Yeah, yeah.
42:26
They can prove themselves. And right when that door opens,
42:29
yeah. And you know, the kind of work
42:31
that they're doing, your frontline folks, very stressful,
42:35
right. You know, your your job is to
42:37
help people pass on, you know, and make them comfortable.
42:41
What kinds of emotional support exists for your team?
42:47
You know, just to kind of help them through what they're
42:50
dealing? With yeah, it's, it's very
42:53
important, very insightful question for, for what we do,
42:58
because it is so important. Our staff, you know, to be at
43:01
their best, we need to really support them and take care of
43:05
them. And we're blessed with our
43:08
border. Our board of directors is very
43:10
interested, you know, an ongoing basis.
43:12
What are we doing to take care of our people?
43:14
You know, how do we take care of our staff?
43:15
So throughout the organization, there's a lot of support for
43:18
that. But some things we do, you know,
43:21
and sometimes there can be times where an experience with someone
43:27
is, is difficult. And many times for us, because
43:30
we do care for adults, we don't do pediatric care.
43:35
But even if it's someone in their 30s and 40s, sometimes
43:39
that's more challenging on the staff, that's more difficult.
43:42
There could be young children that are losing a parent, you
43:45
know, those kinds of scenarios. Most of the people we care for
43:49
in, you know, 65 plus. So we will, we'll do some
43:54
support groups with our chaplaincy group.
43:58
Another part of our organization is our bereavement team.
44:02
So anytime a patient passes away in our care, we will offer and
44:07
provide bereavement support for their family members for 13 up
44:11
to 13 months after their their loved one passed away.
44:15
Now that's directed by the individual.
44:18
Some people, I just want resources.
44:21
Some people want one-on-one conversation.
44:24
Some people want a small support group.
44:26
We kind of all the all of those types of, of options for
44:29
individuals. So we might do a little bit of
44:31
that with our staff too, who will pull together support
44:33
group. We have had recently a very
44:39
difficult death of a patient, a very unexpected death.
44:44
And we brought in kind of an expert from outside our
44:48
organization to just meet with the staff that were involved and
44:53
really try to support them. And, and that was just an area
44:57
we didn't have the expertise internally.
44:59
And sometimes we also understand and respect some of our staff
45:04
may not want to share with colleagues.
45:07
Yeah, they, they need that external person, they feel a
45:09
little more comfortable opening up to them.
45:11
So we'll do that. We have an employee assistance
45:14
program certainly that that our employees are aware of and we
45:17
encourage them with that. We are hopefully getting soon to
45:22
finishing a completely remodeled relocated break room for our
45:29
staff and that was 100% funded by donors because they want to
45:34
take care of our staff. So that new break room's going
45:38
to have, you know, much updated, but a coffee bar is going to be
45:41
broken up into kind of three subsections because we know
45:47
people people need different things during their break and
45:52
they need to be able to. Some people want a conversation
45:55
area with a cup of coffee. Some people want a more private
45:59
space. I just need to be alone and
46:01
think we've got one of those real large massage chairs that
46:08
you might see that it will be available for staff.
46:12
So we're just trying a little self.
46:13
Care. Support there.
46:15
Yeah, we are doing a lot around employee Wellness because it is
46:20
so different for each person and just trying to meet them with
46:24
with different options. So we'll offer a variety of
46:27
different things. Massages will offer different
46:31
types of, you know, Wellness programming that's focused on
46:35
employees. And you know, we know not every
46:39
employee is going to partake in everyone, but hopefully we're
46:42
hitting the mark on some of them that that help them.
46:46
You know, Jeff, in my experience, personal growth,
46:49
professional growth often times comes through going through our
46:54
own huge challenges, right? What's a big challenge that
46:58
you've gone through in your life, whether it was on the
47:00
personal or professional side? How did you get through it, and
47:05
what did you learn getting through the other side of it?
47:09
Yeah, that's a, that's a really good question.
47:14
The, the one that really stands out for me.
47:17
I mean, I think I, I think I'm like probably most people where
47:20
throughout your career there's a variety of different types of
47:22
bumps and hurdles or left turns that you maybe didn't
47:25
anticipate. One that really kind of hit me
47:29
blindsided was I'm, I was one of those victims of, of the COVID
47:35
time as far as losing my position and being laid off.
47:41
Didn't see it coming. Didn't, didn't expect that.
47:44
I was working ridiculous hours trying to support, you know, my
47:48
teams in multiple buildings during that time.
47:51
And first time ever I've had that in my life.
47:55
And that was something, you know, that set me back quite a
48:00
bit. It was a lot of self reflection.
48:03
It was, did I do something wrong?
48:06
What did I do wrong? How do I bounce back?
48:09
I took a few days, you know, it's kind of right by the
48:12
holidays. And I just thought, you know
48:14
what, I need to start talking to my peers.
48:17
I need to start talking to networking groups, you know, and
48:20
that word kind of spreads and had again, people more than
48:26
willing, you know, to talk to give me advice to, you know,
48:30
just help work through it, you know, and I'm I'm old school of,
48:35
you know, IA wife and two kids of my role is to provide for my
48:40
family. My wife works great job.
48:43
It's not who makes more, but it's it's just old fashioned me.
48:48
So I got to get back in the game here and big part of those
48:53
conversations with people was trying to figure out what game I
48:55
wanted. I, I didn't know for sure.
48:57
I wanted to get back into healthcare management far too
49:02
young, you know, to, to retire and just hang it up completely.
49:07
So it, it really set me back mentally, you know, emotionally
49:12
for a little bit and, and then just started talking and started
49:18
hearing about some opportunities and, and it was just a matter of
49:21
working through those. And I'm, you know, grateful an
49:25
organization that I worked for previously called me and wanted
49:30
me to, you know, first kind of help on this consulting project
49:33
and then that developed into a new vice president role with
49:38
them. So, you know, I was very
49:40
grateful and and appreciative, you know, kind of of getting
49:45
back in the game, so to speak. How long was that gap between
49:52
being let go during COVID and starting the new role?
49:56
Felt like forever, but it was, yeah, it was just shy of three
50:00
months. So, so not too bad, you know,
50:06
and we were, you know, our family was blessed enough that
50:10
it wasn't a situation where we're going to have food on the
50:12
table, but it certainly was going to change us in our
50:16
lifestyle a bit depending on how long it lasted.
50:19
So no. And then it that part, in
50:24
hindsight wasn't a concern, but when you're in the middle of it,
50:28
everything was a concern. 'Cause it's the unknown, right?
50:31
If you went into it knowing, oh, in three months I'm going to
50:34
have a new role, you'd be a lot more relaxed.
50:37
OK, look at my finances, OK, we can make that work.
50:40
But when you're in the midst of it, you don't know if it's three
50:43
months. Or three years.
50:44
Or Yeah, exactly. So how do you get through that
50:47
uncertainty? Who were you able to rely on?
50:50
What were your sources of strength?
50:53
My wife first and foremost, you know, and just assuring me and
50:57
my kids. But it, you know, I keep and
51:00
even I appreciate this doing this podcast with you, Anthony,
51:04
because it's kind of bringing back things to me of the
51:07
importance of that network that I built over, you know, now 30
51:13
years in this field, relying on people I had, I had a couple of
51:20
of good colleagues that would reach out to me every couple
51:24
weeks just checking in. How you doing that meant a lot
51:30
to me. And I didn't maybe didn't
51:31
realize how valuable that was in the moment because I was just so
51:34
concerned about so many different thing.
51:37
But just, you know, starting again, doing those little, you
51:41
know, one-on-one lunch, one, one-on-one, whatever type of get
51:46
togethers or phone calls just to see what what else was
51:49
happening. It was a tough time in
51:51
healthcare because you know, nobody was hiring, you know, new
51:54
positions, especially more, you know, leadership type seniors.
52:01
Was it just? Because they were so focused on
52:03
trying to get through the day-to-day.
52:06
Yeah, You know, and in the long term Care World, I mean, it was
52:09
just such an unfortunate time. But you know, many, many of the
52:14
residents living in those buildings were catching COVID in
52:17
the early, early days. You know, all of a sudden
52:21
occupancy and census was bottoming out and, you know,
52:24
organizations were just scurrying trying to, you know,
52:28
save their organizations and, and make sure they could
52:31
continue beyond that public health emergency, those tough
52:35
times. But again, I I absolutely relied
52:39
on those colleagues to just help talk it through.
52:42
And, and like I said it it it wound up with an organization
52:46
that I worked for previously actually had a new leader, but
52:49
she must have heard enough about me that she worked.
52:52
She called me in and offered to kind of get started again.
52:56
That's great. Yeah.
52:59
What's your superpower, Jeff? Boy, I, I, I do think it is
53:09
collaboration, you know, so I, I'm not the smartest person in
53:14
the room and I don't feel like I need to be.
53:17
I had a mentor back in those early days of those
53:22
informational interviews that said, if there's one thing you
53:25
should take away is surround yourself with really good people
53:29
that are smarter than you. And I've, I've taken that to
53:33
heart. So, you know, I would tell
53:36
people, you know, stories of I could sit in my office by myself
53:41
and I could develop probably a pretty impressive looking
53:45
strategic plan as an example. I could have charts, I could
53:49
have data, I could lay it all out.
53:52
But I don't think it's going to be nearly as effective if I then
53:57
if I included some key leaders. So we've gone through our first
54:02
strategic plan here that I came, we worked with a great
54:06
facilitator that helped us. But you know, we developed key
54:11
goals from our board, from our leadership, but then we took it
54:16
out to the organization and we put together 8 different, we
54:22
called them strategic imperative teams.
54:25
Each one of those teams had one of the goals.
54:28
When we put that out, we had 55 employees involved in our
54:34
developing objectives of how we're going to meet those goals.
54:38
That's out of about 175 employees total and that's
54:41
including casual everybody. We have a big part of the
54:44
organization that's involved in that process.
54:47
We've got a lot more work to do around that.
54:50
But getting the insights from the people that are literally
54:55
with the patient every day, that's insight that I don't have
55:00
and yet I need, I think in order to lead the organization in the
55:03
right way. So just I, I'm just a real firm
55:07
believer in the collaboration piece.
55:09
And to me, what comes with the collaboration is active
55:13
listening is being able to sit there quietly and listen to
55:17
people and let them give you feedback and insights.
55:20
Don't lead the conversation too much, but really listen to them
55:24
and what they're telling them. How did you arrive at this
55:28
approach, Jeff? Was it just sort of years of
55:30
trying different things and noticing what works and what
55:33
doesn't? Was there a management course
55:35
that kind of put you on the right track?
55:37
A good mentor. Mentors.
55:40
But you know, I, I learned it kind of through the school of
55:44
Hard Knocks in a way. You know, I, I learned it by,
55:48
in, in the long term care field. I came into it as the
55:52
administrator of a building back in my early days.
55:55
And I have a business major. Well, I'm leading a maintenance
56:01
department. I don't know boilers or how they
56:05
function. I'm leading a food service
56:07
department where, yeah, I can cook for myself, but I can't
56:10
cook for 150 people three times a day.
56:13
I'm, I'm leading a, a, a nursing department with nurse leaders
56:19
providing care, working with a medical director.
56:22
So I, I mean, I used to tell when I, a lot of times I'd work
56:24
with students that I, I take on as interns.
56:28
And I mean, I'd always tell them again, don't be the smartest
56:34
person in the room. I'd copy that message.
56:36
But I'd also say one of the things I love most about this
56:40
job is I've never bored because I literally in the morning could
56:44
be meeting with a maintenance person and maybe a vendor.
56:47
And I'm working through the issues of a boiler system and
56:50
I'm learning about it. And then I go in the afternoon
56:53
and meet with maybe medical director and my nurse leader and
56:58
I'm learning things about clinical care that I had no
57:00
idea. So I'm always learning, which I
57:03
appreciate and, and love, but I learned that I need that
57:09
expertise of those different people.
57:11
So that's what I love about this field too, is I'm not, you know,
57:15
operating a department with a bunch of people that have the
57:18
same background. I do, you know, I'm not running
57:21
a marketing department or a finance department.
57:23
We're all kind of related. Sometimes it's a lot more
57:25
complex when there's different disciplines in the room, but in
57:30
the end, if we can get there, I think we can get much better
57:33
outcomes having that expertise around the table.
57:37
Yeah, I like that being able to shift your brain into different
57:41
types of tasks sometimes can be really exhausting.
57:45
But like you said, it keeps you sharp, keeps you on your toes
57:48
and and ensures that you're never bored, right.
57:50
It's it's, you know different problems that you need to figure
57:53
out solutions to every day. Right.
57:56
Yes. Yeah, you got a favorite
57:59
podcast, favorite book, something a resource that you
58:03
might like to recommend to our listeners?
58:06
You know, when I keep going back to a book and it's it's been out
58:10
for a long time, but it's hard wiring excellence and written by
58:16
Quint Studer consultant. But it's it's a book that years
58:23
ago that an organization and our quality director gave me and
58:27
it's healthcare related, more specifically probably acute care
58:30
related. But it's got elements of
58:33
strategic planning, it's got elements of customer service and
58:38
just practical applications of how you create an environment, a
58:44
culture of excellence. But then how do you hardwire
58:47
that into people so that is sustainable over long periods of
58:51
time? And like I said, I probably read
58:53
the book 3 different times just because I kind of keep going
58:55
back to it and have given copies to other leaders.
58:58
It's it's out, been out there for a long time, but I feel it's
59:03
got some real good practical applications.
59:06
Yeah. How about something fun you like
59:08
to do outside of work, Jeff? Well, I love the golf Minnesota,
59:13
the short golf season, but I do love it.
59:17
I honestly to spending a lot of time with family, you know, I
59:21
have a hard time on weekends, especially giving up time to go
59:25
play golf when I can connect, you know, hang out with our
59:28
family or we're doing different things.
59:30
I love to travel. We get to do that a little bit
59:33
now, especially with our kids, a little bit older, a little bit
59:35
easier sometimes to break away and do some traveling.
59:39
Where are some of your favorite places to go?
59:41
Or better yet, what's a place that's on the list you haven't
59:44
hit yet? Probably place we haven't been
59:49
yet there's some other islands in the Caribbean we haven't been
59:53
to that I would love to Ocean Beach re energizes me but I yeah
1:00:01
but I also love we had an opportunity to go to you know
1:00:06
throughout Italy and and Paris and just to learn the totally
1:00:11
different perspective than the. United States perspective on
1:00:15
things I appreciate, so I'd love to go back to other parts of
1:00:19
Europe too. Nice.
1:00:21
I've just got one more question for you today, Jeff.
1:00:24
But before I ask it, I want to do 3 quick things.
1:00:26
First of all, anybody who wants to get in touch with Jeff
1:00:29
Thorne, you can find him at LinkedIn.
1:00:32
Last name is spelled Thorne. Jeff Thorne with an E on the end
1:00:36
of it. And if you can, if you want to
1:00:39
e-mail him, he's given us his work e-mail address to share
1:00:41
with you, which will include the show notes.
1:00:43
But for anybody listening, it's Jeff at Our Lady of Peace
1:00:47
mn.org. So MN is in Minnesota, so Jeff
1:00:51
at Our Lady of Peace mn.org. Also, as a reminder, if you want
1:00:57
to get your Hospice employees access to benefits that won't
1:00:59
hurt them financially and carries a financial upside for
1:01:02
the company, reach out to us at AD back benefits.com.
1:01:06
Finally, if you'll take just a moment to leave us a comment or
1:01:09
review on your favorite podcast app, you'll hold a special place
1:01:12
in my heart forever. Thank you.
1:01:13
So last question for you, Jeff, you and I reconnect one year
1:01:17
from today and you're celebrating something big.
1:01:20
What's that big thing that you hope to be celebrating one year
1:01:23
from today? Well, you know we didn't talk
1:01:26
about it, but one of our primary strategic initiatives for us the
1:01:32
over over the next probably multiple years though, but one
1:01:36
year from now if we could be celebrating a a huge kick off
1:01:39
and good start is we've got a fund of money that we operate
1:01:46
and use some of the investment income to help us support that
1:01:49
care that we're not billing anybody for.
1:01:52
So we have an initiative that we're going to do with a
1:01:55
comprehensive fundraising campaign and try to raise a
1:02:00
substantial amount of money to double the size of that fund.
1:02:03
So if a year from now, if we can be celebrating a great kick off,
1:02:10
a handful of key donors that you know have committed to us their
1:02:14
willingness to continue and help us continue this mission, that
1:02:17
would be a huge success for us. Well, we'll have to make a note
1:02:22
to check back on that, because that's a noble goal.
1:02:24
Yeah, I'd love to. All right.
1:02:27
Jeff Thorne from Our Lady of Peace Hospice in Minnesota, I
1:02:30
want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time
1:02:32
and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.
1:02:35
Thank you Anthony very much. I enjoyed it.
1:02:38
Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
1:02:40
podcast. Thanks for learning with us
1:02:42
today.