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Selects: How Profiling Works · Stuff You Should Know

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's your bro Josh, and for this week's
0:04
Speaker 1: s Y s K Selects, I've chosen our episode from
0:07
Speaker 1: July of two thousand fifteen on the extraordinarily controversial practice
0:12
Speaker 1: of profiling. You'll find out all the ins and outs
0:15
Speaker 1: of profiling when it actually works, why it generally doesn't,
0:19
Speaker 1: and why it's so just utterly offensive in general. Plus
0:23
Speaker 1: you'll also get to hear Chuck classic Chuck after he
0:27
Speaker 1: got back from adopting his daughter, and he gets to
0:30
Speaker 1: thank everybody who helped him along the way. And it's
0:32
Speaker 1: just very nice and heartwarming, especially considering the episode it's
0:36
Speaker 1: attached to. So at any rate, I hope you enjoy
0:39
Speaker 1: it and take good care, Doe do do? What was that?
0:46
Speaker 1: That is a heraldic announcement? Yes, before we get going, Uh,
0:52
Speaker 1: I know people on social media already know this stuff,
0:55
Speaker 1: but I wanted to announce on the podcast that Chuck
0:58
Speaker 1: here has opted a baby. Girl. Chuck has a baby,
1:03
Speaker 1: A beautiful baby. Yeah she is, she's cuteie. She she
1:06
Speaker 1: was ten days late, so she came out and not
1:08
Speaker 1: looking like one of those little alien creatures. No, she
1:11
Speaker 1: fully formed. Yes, what's her name, Chuck? Her name is
1:14
Speaker 1: Ruby Rose Bryant Man. She's so cute and she was
1:18
Speaker 1: born on your birthday. Yeah, isn't that crazy? One of
1:21
Speaker 1: the better days of the year July fift But isn't
1:23
Speaker 1: that remarkable? I think it is remarkable out of all
1:26
Speaker 1: the days. And I was literally I was just like, well,
1:29
Speaker 1: let me scroll through the celebrity birthday it's just, you know,
1:32
Speaker 1: for giggles to see what you know, who shares her birthday.
1:35
Speaker 1: About three quarters of the way down and saw your
1:37
Speaker 1: face and I had forgotten it was your birthday because
1:40
Speaker 1: I was just in another planet, and I like, immediately
1:43
Speaker 1: I was like, Emily, you got to see this. You'll
1:45
Speaker 1: never guess whose birthday she shares. So I think that's
1:48
Speaker 1: really neat. Um. So anyway, uh, thank you everybody for
1:53
Speaker 1: the support. Stop stop chuck, Yes on behalf of every stuff.
1:57
Speaker 1: You should know. A listener out there, yes, congratulate since
2:00
Speaker 1: to you and Emily. Do you feel like you can
2:02
Speaker 1: speak for them? Yes? Of course, Okay, because there might
2:04
Speaker 1: be one guy out there he's like, I don't care,
2:06
Speaker 1: he can stop listening right now. But I do have
2:10
Speaker 1: some people to thank. Um. This happened in Tulsa, Oklahoma,
2:14
Speaker 1: and Um. We stayed in this little area called East Village.
2:18
Speaker 1: It was literally like a block in this loft and
2:21
Speaker 1: Airbnb loft and above pizza place and across street from
2:26
Speaker 1: a bar. And I'll bet you have some people to think. Yeah,
2:28
Speaker 1: these people like took us in as family. It was
2:31
Speaker 1: like literally every day, you know, for ten days late,
2:34
Speaker 1: we're out there two days early. So for like two
2:36
Speaker 1: weeks they were like, what's going on? You know, where's
2:39
Speaker 1: this baby? So I want to thank how just bend
2:43
Speaker 1: which you would love to do? This cocktail bar right
2:46
Speaker 1: up your alley. It sounds like you said cocktail bar. Yeah.
2:49
Speaker 1: And not only do they make like fresh you know,
2:51
Speaker 1: fresh ingredients, but they don't have like a thing of
2:53
Speaker 1: cucumber sliced uff. They uncumber as needed nice and you
2:58
Speaker 1: know the jalapeno you would have. They were doing it
3:00
Speaker 1: right there. So Jamie and Nate and Nicole and Ian
3:04
Speaker 1: the chef at I've just been it was the stuff
3:06
Speaker 1: you should know. Man. Oh yeah, he came out and
3:08
Speaker 1: he was like is it who I think it is?
3:09
Speaker 1: How fortuitous? How fortuitous? And then uh, East Village Bohemian Pizzeria.
3:15
Speaker 1: We stayed above this place and they were great. Did
3:18
Speaker 1: the smell drive you nuts all the time? But we
3:20
Speaker 1: ate a lot of people. Okay, Uh, so Pat there
3:23
Speaker 1: and my boy Max, Max and I really hit it off.
3:25
Speaker 1: Were like genuine life pals down uh and he at
3:30
Speaker 1: the end, I go to leave and I just give
3:33
Speaker 1: him a letter saying thank you and here's my contact info.
3:36
Speaker 1: And then like p s. By the way, I have
3:37
Speaker 1: a podcast. He's an ornithologist, he has his master's, but
3:41
Speaker 1: he's not doing that right now. You know, he's running
3:43
Speaker 1: this pizza joint and just a really smart guys, Like
3:46
Speaker 1: I could think you might like this podcast. I do.
3:48
Speaker 1: He comes up and tells me afterwards, this is like
3:52
Speaker 1: our parting words. He was like, dude, your chuck. He's like, really,
3:56
Speaker 1: I had a weird like thing. He said, I knew
3:59
Speaker 1: that you seemed for Millier, but I didn't want to
4:01
Speaker 1: say anything, like even watched the TV show. Oh wow.
4:03
Speaker 1: So Max was like, that's probably why I didn't want
4:06
Speaker 1: to say anything. Yeah, he didn't want to bring it up.
4:11
Speaker 1: So a huge thanks to those guys. And then um
4:14
Speaker 1: our caseworker Jessica Um also a stuff you should know
4:17
Speaker 1: fan that is amazing because at the end of our
4:19
Speaker 1: first call like a month ago. She went, all right,
4:22
Speaker 1: we've got business done. I have something I have to admit.
4:25
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm a huge fan man. So it was weird.
4:28
Speaker 1: It was like the stuff you should know, nation sort
4:29
Speaker 1: of caring for me. Yeah, and all of the people
4:33
Speaker 1: like you. You put a picture of Ruby Rose up, yeah,
4:36
Speaker 1: and like broke the internet. It was it was people
4:38
Speaker 1: love newborns. Well yeah, but people love Chuck's newborn. Yeah.
4:42
Speaker 1: But you know it could have been a puppy and
4:44
Speaker 1: probably gotten don I don't think that was very sweet. Yeah,
4:50
Speaker 1: so that meant a lot to me. But Jessica and
4:51
Speaker 1: her two sons, Hugh and Henry, I know they are
4:54
Speaker 1: listeners to they are awesome boys, and she really took
4:57
Speaker 1: care of us. So I'm glad it worked out like
4:59
Speaker 1: a man three weeks sin Tulsa. It was a weird
5:01
Speaker 1: and stressful and but it sounds wonderful. Yeah, good start though. Yeah,
5:06
Speaker 1: I mean we were in there. Emily helped deliver this baby,
5:09
Speaker 1: and I was in the man zone right behind. I
5:11
Speaker 1: am so proud of you guys. I'm so happy for
5:14
Speaker 1: you guys. I also want to say Jerry is not
5:16
Speaker 1: allowed to talk. Jerry feels the exact same way. She's, well,
5:20
Speaker 1: we could take the duck tapeall for today, maybe, Jerry,
5:22
Speaker 1: how do you feel? Yes, she said, yeah, she agrees.
5:27
Speaker 1: She just spelled out on the speaking spelled called them police. Anyway,
5:32
Speaker 1: this is not going to become the New Baby show. Um,
5:35
Speaker 1: she will probably disappear from uh your lives. But just
5:39
Speaker 1: know that we're all doing great and thank you for
5:41
Speaker 1: the support. All right, nice job, Chuck, thanks man, congratulates,
5:46
Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. Welcome to Stuff you should know, a
5:50
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
5:59
Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry,
6:02
Speaker 1: which means it's time for listener mayo. Oh wait, wow
6:09
Speaker 1: about that, I'm brain to start. That's why we leave
6:12
Speaker 1: that in there. Do you want to ye? Or maybe
6:14
Speaker 1: I should just read listener mail. We can go home. Okay,
6:19
Speaker 1: it's a build your own episode. Yeah, it's a mad libs.
6:23
Speaker 1: Just fill it in. I'm profiling, Yeah, styling and profiling.
6:27
Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited. Are you styling and profile? Well? This
6:30
Speaker 1: is a that's a different thing. This yeah, okay, I
6:34
Speaker 1: think that has to do with um, like photography, no
6:38
Speaker 1: think styling and profile and just means you're living large. Yeah,
6:42
Speaker 1: you're fashionable and hip. Oh gotcha. Yeah, No, this is different. Yeah,
6:49
Speaker 1: and this is a grab star article, which is the
6:51
Speaker 1: mark of quality, as we all know it is. It's
6:53
Speaker 1: refreshing to see and it is Um, we should just
6:56
Speaker 1: say right off the bat, profiling is a super divisive topic.
7:00
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Um, there are many ways to look at it,
7:05
Speaker 1: and all they make sense sometimes on both sides. It's
7:08
Speaker 1: a tough one. Yeah, so that's my caveat. It's divisive.
7:13
Speaker 1: So um. One thing that grabs her immediately points out
7:17
Speaker 1: is like, not all profiling is profiling, like you think
7:22
Speaker 1: of Sure, we're going to talk about all the different ways, right,
7:25
Speaker 1: There's plenty of accepted forms of profiling. And the first one, um,
7:31
Speaker 1: is the standard all points bulletin or be on the lookout, Right,
7:35
Speaker 1: that's the kind that no one has a problem with.
7:36
Speaker 1: No one does, Yeah, because that you you know what
7:39
Speaker 1: that is. That's uh, silver toyota to coma with spotted
7:42
Speaker 1: today and white male in his mid forties with spiky
7:47
Speaker 1: hair and uh sort of chubby with a big gross
7:51
Speaker 1: gray black beard has committed a crime and he's wearing
7:55
Speaker 1: cargo shorts and flip flops. Oh, I see you're describing
7:59
Speaker 1: yourself profiler, but you put in their white male. And
8:04
Speaker 1: the reason that's what I am. The reason why people
8:06
Speaker 1: don't have a problem with this is twofold one. A
8:11
Speaker 1: crime has already been committed. Yeah, okay, I committed a crime.
8:14
Speaker 1: So the police work is finding a perpetrator that has
8:17
Speaker 1: already committed a crime. And secondly, that profile is based
8:21
Speaker 1: on eyewitness accounts descriptions of the person. That's right, So
8:27
Speaker 1: that profile is being used to track down a specific person.
8:32
Speaker 1: Has nothing to do with anybody else. Who's white, has
8:36
Speaker 1: nothing to do with anybody else, who drives a silver Tacoma,
8:40
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with any of that jazz. It's
8:42
Speaker 1: just this guy is suspected of having committed this crime
8:49
Speaker 1: and he looks like this. Yeah you hear. You see
8:52
Speaker 1: it on the news every night. Yes, you know that's
8:54
Speaker 1: not just cops that use this. The news will say
8:56
Speaker 1: the suspect is, uh, you know, wearing a handsome, checkered Oxford,
9:01
Speaker 1: button down, whispy hair, and white, straight teeth exactly, so
9:08
Speaker 1: they're describing you, Oh you think my teeth are nice?
9:11
Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I said they were white and straight.
9:13
Speaker 1: That's nice if that's what you're into. This is coming
9:18
Speaker 1: from a guy who just found out he's about to
9:20
Speaker 1: have to lose his front tooth all over again, start over. Yeah, man,
9:24
Speaker 1: that sucks. Which I know there are some fans out
9:26
Speaker 1: there that are laughing Aaron Cooper that toothless Chuck is
9:30
Speaker 1: coming back in the house for it. It's really just him. Yeah,
9:34
Speaker 1: he's the only one whould be jerky enough to laugh
9:37
Speaker 1: at that. That kind of misfortune, you know, I know,
9:40
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to bring that up. I'm just still reeling
9:42
Speaker 1: from that discovery. It stinks. You think you get an
9:45
Speaker 1: implant and it's for life. Yeah, especially when they sell
9:49
Speaker 1: you a lifetime implant. Yeah, exactly. Alright. So, uh, like
9:55
Speaker 1: you said, including descriptions and skin color is not controversial
10:00
Speaker 1: this case. No, it's in. Everybody from the FEDS to
10:03
Speaker 1: the local police are okay with that. Yeah, they're all
10:06
Speaker 1: in on it. And and not just the police, like
10:09
Speaker 1: everybody's like, yeah, this is fine, this makes sense. Sure,
10:11
Speaker 1: not a thing that's right. The next one is psychological profiling,
10:16
Speaker 1: and this is when you don't have a lot of
10:18
Speaker 1: physical evidence or you don't have an eyewitness, and you're
10:21
Speaker 1: trying to fill in the blanks and make some good
10:24
Speaker 1: guesses billy blanks based on I remember that guy. Uh,
10:28
Speaker 1: some good guesses based on like the crime scene or
10:31
Speaker 1: just the circumstances of the crime. Yes, again, a crime
10:34
Speaker 1: has already taken place, and you're trying to figure out
10:36
Speaker 1: who solved it, and you're taking committed it. You're trying
10:43
Speaker 1: to figure out who's gonna solve it alright, alright, which
10:46
Speaker 1: you figure out the same moment when as you do
10:49
Speaker 1: when you figure out who committed it. It's interesting mind bending.
10:52
Speaker 1: Right Twice you've jumped to the end of something. It's
10:55
Speaker 1: so weird. I don't know what that means. I think
10:57
Speaker 1: you know what it means. Uh. Sometimes they are vague,
11:01
Speaker 1: but wait, I hadn't finished my thought. Okay, I didn't
11:03
Speaker 1: mess it up that bad. Let me go back and finish. Um.
11:07
Speaker 1: The point is it's drawn from available evidence, Yeah, clues,
11:12
Speaker 1: clues that you're bringing together to try to draw up
11:16
Speaker 1: an idea of who did this, right exactly, Okay, So
11:21
Speaker 1: sometimes it can be vague, but if you watch TV
11:23
Speaker 1: and movies, um, it is probably not how it really
11:27
Speaker 1: goes down, but it's super specific when you see it
11:29
Speaker 1: in fiction, you know, like I think this, uh as
11:33
Speaker 1: a man who was beaten as a child, and he
11:36
Speaker 1: probably lives alone or Sherlock Holmes was really good at
11:41
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. It's a good point. Love Sherlock Holmes. Yeah,
11:43
Speaker 1: that's good stuff. Uh did you know he was a
11:46
Speaker 1: morphine and cocaine addict? Really? Yeah? Well I guess you
11:50
Speaker 1: need both in like the original stories? Really yeah? Oh
11:53
Speaker 1: like in the books. Wow, not the real guy right,
12:00
Speaker 1: as I think, Yeah, are you sure you're not just
12:02
Speaker 1: thinking of Robert Downey Jr. I mean I've read the
12:06
Speaker 1: Originals and he like does he shoots morphing in it?
12:11
Speaker 1: And and Watson is not very happy with the whole thing.
12:14
Speaker 1: Yeah he's straight edge. No, he's not straight edge, but
12:17
Speaker 1: he doesn't he's not a junkie, you know. But he
12:21
Speaker 1: didn't care. He was like, Watson, wash my toes. So
12:24
Speaker 1: I can between them all right, Moving on to predictive profiling, Well, yeah,
12:32
Speaker 1: this is where it starts to get a little messy. Yeah,
12:34
Speaker 1: I can get a little controversial. Even psychological profiling is
12:37
Speaker 1: a little controversial. I have to say, chuck, like, it's
12:39
Speaker 1: not a proven, tried and true thing. It's as much
12:42
Speaker 1: a guessing game as anything else. Um, But it's not
12:47
Speaker 1: nearly still as controversial as predictive profiling, because now you're
12:52
Speaker 1: trying to say, these people will probably commit a crime,
12:57
Speaker 1: right not not not civil sorry issue, big time, big time. Um.
13:03
Speaker 1: Police officers do great work. Ideally, they're not just reacting
13:08
Speaker 1: to committed crimes, but they are um driving around the
13:11
Speaker 1: neighborhood looking for a suspicious person that might be about
13:15
Speaker 1: to commit a crime, to prevent crime, to prevent a crime,
13:18
Speaker 1: which is tough to do. You know, it's right place,
13:20
Speaker 1: right time in most cases. And you use the word
13:22
Speaker 1: ideally right ideally yes. Um. So even when this happens,
13:28
Speaker 1: this Supreme Court has roundly um sided with police officers
13:33
Speaker 1: um as profiling for justification. So it's legally speaking, okay,
13:40
Speaker 1: it's on the books. It's on the books. So so
13:43
Speaker 1: give an example of the kind of profiling that's okay
13:46
Speaker 1: to be used. Um. The one of the article is great. Um.
13:50
Speaker 1: Let's say you're in uh, South Florida, and you're you're
13:55
Speaker 1: traveling up and you're in a it's four a m.
13:59
Speaker 1: And you're in a rented black suv with tinted windows,
14:04
Speaker 1: and you have the spare tire in the back seat removed. Um,
14:08
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's it's removed from the trunk area. It's
14:11
Speaker 1: in the backseat, just sitting in the back seat. Might
14:14
Speaker 1: be might be a drug trafficker, right, And the cop
14:19
Speaker 1: is basing this on something like, um, a profile, Yeah,
14:24
Speaker 1: but a profile based on previous experiences with other drug
14:27
Speaker 1: dealers in the same area. Because that's a really big
14:30
Speaker 1: one right there. Like um. One of the things for
14:33
Speaker 1: using profiles successfully is it has it's it has it
14:39
Speaker 1: has to be over a certain period of time and
14:42
Speaker 1: associated with a certain place. So you use Miami and
14:46
Speaker 1: say Miami, right, if you saw that person and you
14:51
Speaker 1: would say, well, this is probably a cocaine trafficker based
14:54
Speaker 1: on all the other dealings with cocaine traffickers who who
14:58
Speaker 1: used the same transportation. M Yeah, And we should point
15:01
Speaker 1: out the tires removed, because you can then hide the
15:03
Speaker 1: drugs where their spare tire went, and then that's why
15:06
Speaker 1: the tires in the back seat. Yes, so these are
15:08
Speaker 1: red flags. But if you're like in um Wyoming in
15:14
Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen, and you read an article about how
15:18
Speaker 1: that held true in Miami. That is not necessarily a
15:23
Speaker 1: justifiable transference of profiling because it exists in a different time,
15:27
Speaker 1: in a different place. That's right. So, like you said,
15:30
Speaker 1: this can be a this can be high level policy, UM,
15:35
Speaker 1: it can be unofficial policy. It can be just merely
15:39
Speaker 1: experienced as a police officer. That's something you've encountered from
15:43
Speaker 1: time to time and basically to determine if this profile
15:48
Speaker 1: justifies a search warrantless search that is, in other words,
15:52
Speaker 1: you haven't gone to the judge and as applied for
15:55
Speaker 1: a warrant and had them review it and all that
15:57
Speaker 1: stuff or rubber stamp it, which we'll get to. Um.
16:00
Speaker 1: It's got a stand up in court, right, and so
16:03
Speaker 1: you gotta be careful as a cop you do. Um,
16:06
Speaker 1: you have to have what's called an articulable suspicion, which
16:10
Speaker 1: was established by a nineteen case or Supreme Court ruling
16:15
Speaker 1: Terry versus Ohio. And the Supreme Court said, and this
16:19
Speaker 1: is actually from a Matt ti abi Um article. It's
16:22
Speaker 1: really really worth reading. It's called Why Baltimore Blew Up.
16:26
Speaker 1: It was in Rolling Stone like a month or two ago.
16:29
Speaker 1: It's a very good article. Um. But he talks about
16:33
Speaker 1: this terry case led to what are called terry stops,
16:36
Speaker 1: whereas if a cop has a suspicion that they can
16:40
Speaker 1: put into words meaning it's not just a hunch, um,
16:45
Speaker 1: that somebody is is either just committed a crime or
16:49
Speaker 1: going to commit a crime, that that is probable cause,
16:54
Speaker 1: and it's browns first search. Yeah, And here's a had
16:57
Speaker 1: a great example here, like let's say the cop and
17:00
Speaker 1: it would say this, the suspect of pure nervous made
17:02
Speaker 1: several contradictory statements. In the back seat, I saw a
17:05
Speaker 1: shoebox full of old film canisters, which drug carriers commonly use.
17:10
Speaker 1: The car smell like air freshener spray, which is used
17:12
Speaker 1: to cover up the smell of drugs. And I spotted
17:15
Speaker 1: them driving slowly up and down a block that I
17:17
Speaker 1: know is frequented by drug dealers. Right, that's called good
17:20
Speaker 1: police work in court. Right, that's called like a prosecutor's
17:24
Speaker 1: dream copah um. And if you if you go back
17:28
Speaker 1: and you notice all of that stuff, all of these
17:30
Speaker 1: things are based on. So a block that he knows
17:34
Speaker 1: to be frequented by drug dealers, thirty five millimeter canisters.
17:37
Speaker 1: Maybe he read a Police Benevolent Association newsletter article about that, Um,
17:43
Speaker 1: all of this stuff together um becomes what's called cumulative similarities.
17:48
Speaker 1: And supposedly a Florida Highway patrolman named Bob Vogel is
17:53
Speaker 1: the first guy to put this down on paper. He
17:56
Speaker 1: was very controversial, which is, you take all of these
18:00
Speaker 1: different things and put them together, and you can form
18:02
Speaker 1: a profile, and you can use that to pull somebody
18:05
Speaker 1: over and then you know, eventually search their car if
18:09
Speaker 1: you're a Florida Highway patrolment. Right. So, UM, you've got
18:14
Speaker 1: you've got all of these. Uh. You have the terry
18:16
Speaker 1: stops which are used for broken windows policing and just
18:20
Speaker 1: for pulling people over, but they require an articulable suspicion,
18:25
Speaker 1: but they can be based on where called cumulative similarities,
18:29
Speaker 1: which is a profile. Either like that your police department
18:32
Speaker 1: is saying be on the lookout for people driving with
18:36
Speaker 1: their spare tire in the backseat, um at this time
18:40
Speaker 1: of night. So far, this has all been upheld by
18:44
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. That's right. But there's a very very
18:49
Speaker 1: fine line, um that is frequently crossed, and we will
18:54
Speaker 1: talk about how that runs a foul of the Constitution
18:57
Speaker 1: right after this, all right, Josh, before we took a break,
19:23
Speaker 1: you mentioned something called the Constitution, And there are a
19:26
Speaker 1: couple of amendments that come into play when you're talking
19:29
Speaker 1: about search and seizure, probable cause profiling, and they are
19:34
Speaker 1: the fourth and fourteenth Amendments. The fourth reads in whole
19:39
Speaker 1: the right of the people to be secure in their
19:41
Speaker 1: persons is that JFK. I went into him Whitston Churchill. Sure,
19:46
Speaker 1: it's both houses papers and effects against unreasonable searches and
19:50
Speaker 1: seizures shall not be violated, and no warrant shall issue,
19:55
Speaker 1: but upon probable costs supported by oath or affirmation, and
19:58
Speaker 1: particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons
20:02
Speaker 1: of things to be seized. Right, So there's some big
20:04
Speaker 1: words in there, big big like money words like, uh,
20:09
Speaker 1: it's a protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, which means,
20:15
Speaker 1: as far as the Supreme Court's concerned, some cops just
20:18
Speaker 1: can't say I'm gonna push you up against the wall
20:21
Speaker 1: and pay you down for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, Or
20:24
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull you over for no reason and I'm
20:26
Speaker 1: gonna search your car on the side of the road
20:30
Speaker 1: for no reason, um does not happen, right of course
20:34
Speaker 1: not sure? So, Um, that's the Fourth Amendment, right, And uh,
20:39
Speaker 1: there's another big term in there. It's called probable cause,
20:43
Speaker 1: like you have to have and if from a lot
20:46
Speaker 1: of people say that that night Terry versus Ohio ruling
20:50
Speaker 1: is just too broad in articulable suspicion, like what is
20:54
Speaker 1: that you know? Um, But even still there's there, So
21:00
Speaker 1: there has to be some sort of probable cause. And
21:03
Speaker 1: a lot of the times, as we'll see, it's just
21:06
Speaker 1: from uh, some something out in plain side or something
21:10
Speaker 1: like that. But there's a big struggle over what constitutes
21:13
Speaker 1: probable cause. But the point is the Fourth Amendment says
21:16
Speaker 1: you have to have probable cause or else it's an
21:18
Speaker 1: unreasonable search, that's right. And uh, a police officer in
21:22
Speaker 1: most cases has to go get a warrant for like
21:24
Speaker 1: the search of a home or something. Um. And there's
21:28
Speaker 1: a whole issue of rubber stamping warrants these days of
21:30
Speaker 1: course that like the judge may not even really review that.
21:33
Speaker 1: It's just a formality, right or for anybody who's watched
21:36
Speaker 1: it's enough Law and Order episodes, all you have to
21:38
Speaker 1: do is go I smell pot. Do you smell pot?
21:41
Speaker 1: Wink wink, and then kick the door in, Yeah, exactly,
21:44
Speaker 1: because that's you can't prove that the cop didn't think
21:46
Speaker 1: you smell pot exactly. Now there's the threat of perjury,
21:50
Speaker 1: of perjuring himself on the stand. But I imagine at
21:54
Speaker 1: least as far as like Brisco and Green are concerned,
21:58
Speaker 1: they're hoping that they're gonna find so gang buster overwhelming
22:01
Speaker 1: evidence that everybody's going to forget about the fake smell
22:04
Speaker 1: of pot. Um. So, there was actually a case which
22:08
Speaker 1: relates to probable calls called the US v. Sokolow that
22:14
Speaker 1: made it all the way to the Scotus And um,
22:17
Speaker 1: did you read about that case? I did. It's um
22:20
Speaker 1: it was a nine. Well that was when the ruling
22:23
Speaker 1: was right. Yeah. So what happened was the d A
22:25
Speaker 1: arrested a guy at the Honolulu airport found over a
22:30
Speaker 1: thousand grams of cocaine in his carry on. It was
22:32
Speaker 1: a key he had aw and he paid. Uh. They
22:36
Speaker 1: the agents knew all this going into it. This is
22:38
Speaker 1: why they arrested him. He paid bucks for round trip
22:41
Speaker 1: tickets with a roll of twenty dollar bills. He traveled
22:45
Speaker 1: under a name that did not match the name under
22:48
Speaker 1: which his telephone was listed. Um, he was originally going
22:52
Speaker 1: to Miami, and this yeah, because la Flag at the time,
22:58
Speaker 1: he only stayed in Miami for two days, even though
23:00
Speaker 1: a round trip flight from Honolulu takes twenty hours, so
23:04
Speaker 1: a very quick trip and no others. He was almost
23:06
Speaker 1: flying as long as he was there in Miami, he
23:08
Speaker 1: met up with a man named Tony Montana. Apparently he
23:13
Speaker 1: appeared nervous and he did not check his baggage, and
23:17
Speaker 1: the district court denied motion to suppress the evidence, said
23:22
Speaker 1: it was justifiable. The Court of Appeals disagreed and overturned that,
23:26
Speaker 1: and then eventually it went to the Supreme Court and
23:28
Speaker 1: they said no, it's okay because they had what was
23:31
Speaker 1: quote a totality of evidence. So here's the thing, though,
23:36
Speaker 1: the thing that makes that so groundbreaking. And nowadays, I mean,
23:38
Speaker 1: we were raised under so clow Right, it seems like
23:42
Speaker 1: this is just the norm. But it was a ground
23:44
Speaker 1: breaking case of the time because nothing none of that.
23:47
Speaker 1: It's not against the law to pay your plane ticket
23:50
Speaker 1: with cash, it's not against the law to not check
23:52
Speaker 1: your bags. At the time, it wasn't against the law
23:55
Speaker 1: to travel under an assumed name. Yeah, and I don't
23:57
Speaker 1: think at the time it was against a law to
23:58
Speaker 1: go to Miami just for two right, exactly, none of
24:01
Speaker 1: this is against the law. And so if you if
24:05
Speaker 1: if you just followed the strict interpretation the law up
24:07
Speaker 1: to that point there was they couldn't bust this guy.
24:10
Speaker 1: Even though when they busted him they found a kilo
24:13
Speaker 1: of coke, like they knew they would in his bag. Um,
24:16
Speaker 1: there wasn't enough there. In the Supreme Court said you
24:19
Speaker 1: know what, we we think that when you put all
24:21
Speaker 1: that stuff together, there is enough there. Now what constitutes
24:26
Speaker 1: that totality? Is it two pieces of evidence? Is that
24:28
Speaker 1: one thing? Um? You know, how much does it take
24:31
Speaker 1: to profile? But what they were saying in so colo was, yes,
24:36
Speaker 1: the the stuff that you've seen from other proven criminals
24:42
Speaker 1: applied to somebody else who you don't yet fully know
24:44
Speaker 1: as a criminal is enough for you to bust them
24:47
Speaker 1: and see if you're right. Yeah, again, it's just like
24:52
Speaker 1: kind of groundbreaking. He didn't go straight to jail. They
24:55
Speaker 1: looked in his bag, yes, but it's do you have
24:58
Speaker 1: the right to look in the bag? Is what it
24:59
Speaker 1: comes down. And they were saying that there. The Supreme
25:02
Speaker 1: Court's interpretation is this stands up to the Fourth Amendment. Yeah,
25:05
Speaker 1: and I met the guy went to Miami for two days.
25:09
Speaker 1: Kiss your civil rights goodbye. Uh So with the fourteenth Amendment, UM,
25:13
Speaker 1: it states in part that no State shall make or
25:16
Speaker 1: enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities
25:19
Speaker 1: of citizens of the US. Uh I think everybody wants
25:23
Speaker 1: the Kennedy voice against. Uh. I think any time you
25:26
Speaker 1: read amendments from the Bill of Rights, you have to
25:28
Speaker 1: do it like that. Nah shall any state deprive any
25:31
Speaker 1: person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law,
25:35
Speaker 1: nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction equal protection
25:38
Speaker 1: of the laws. So this one applies. You might say, well,
25:43
Speaker 1: we've got the Fourth we don't need the fourteenth. Fourteen
25:45
Speaker 1: says look, man, you can't just bust somebody without this again,
25:51
Speaker 1: due process of law. And we have a due process
25:54
Speaker 1: of law. And what the Supreme Court did with cases
25:56
Speaker 1: like so below and with cases like Terry versus Ohio UM,
26:00
Speaker 1: is they said profiling is part of the due process
26:05
Speaker 1: of law. That's right. So one thing that they have
26:10
Speaker 1: gone back to again and again and again and again
26:13
Speaker 1: is that if race is factored in and almost any circumstances.
26:18
Speaker 1: There are circumstances that is where racial profiling is allowed
26:22
Speaker 1: in police work. But for the most part, if you're
26:26
Speaker 1: basing your suspicions of criminal wrongdoing on race largely or
26:31
Speaker 1: in part, then that is not That runs a foul
26:36
Speaker 1: of the fourth and the fourteenth Amendments, and you're not
26:38
Speaker 1: allowed to do that. Yeah. The grabs Her points out
26:40
Speaker 1: that cops, unless you are have an a p b
26:43
Speaker 1: out on a Hispanic mail or a black male, then
26:48
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be color blind as a cop, exactly,
26:53
Speaker 1: all right, You're supposed to be supposed to So you know, um,
26:56
Speaker 1: the Eric Garner case, the Michael Brown case, UM, all
26:59
Speaker 1: of these cases where you know, black mails were basically
27:03
Speaker 1: stopped from either doing a petty offense or just stop
27:08
Speaker 1: based on suspicion because they were black in their neighborhood. UM.
27:12
Speaker 1: It prompted the executive branch to release a new set
27:16
Speaker 1: of guidance, like an updated set of guidelines for racial profiling,
27:22
Speaker 1: and they were they basically spelled out examples. Um. I
27:25
Speaker 1: posted to it on the podcast page for this episode,
27:28
Speaker 1: but they spelled out examples for when that when it's appropriate,
27:32
Speaker 1: And they said, if it's an all points bulletin for
27:35
Speaker 1: any police yes, Um, if you're traffic or if you're
27:41
Speaker 1: patrolling and looking for criminals and you're basing it on race,
27:45
Speaker 1: absolutely not allowed. But they said they gave an example
27:49
Speaker 1: where like, um, if, for example, you are looking for
27:53
Speaker 1: somebody who carried out a hit on a gang leader,
27:57
Speaker 1: and you know there's this rival gang and this right
28:00
Speaker 1: of old gang is probably the ones who carried out
28:03
Speaker 1: this hit, and every member of this rival gang is Hispanic,
28:08
Speaker 1: that you could use that as part of the profile
28:11
Speaker 1: and searching for your suspect. That it just makes sense
28:14
Speaker 1: in that case, right, Not because you don't look for
28:16
Speaker 1: the little old white lady, right exactly. Yeah, because it's
28:19
Speaker 1: that specific. But you wouldn't cast a dragnet over all Hispanics.
28:24
Speaker 1: It would be Hispanic men related to this gang. You
28:27
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. I think the lesson here is
28:29
Speaker 1: get the little old white lady to do the hit.
28:32
Speaker 1: It's been done before, and you're golden. It has been
28:35
Speaker 1: done before, which is one of the one of the
28:38
Speaker 1: problems with racial profiling is it's distracting. Yeah, you know,
28:41
Speaker 1: we'll get to that. But that's definitely true. Um, and
28:45
Speaker 1: you know when you watch cops, it's not always like
28:50
Speaker 1: sometimes that I will see on the TV show. They
28:52
Speaker 1: will pull over. They'll stop a white kid, like suburban
28:56
Speaker 1: white kid that's in a bad neighborhood, because they'll be like, well,
28:58
Speaker 1: he's he doesn't below here. Yeah, he's probably buying drugs
29:02
Speaker 1: because this is a street where people buy drugs. There's
29:04
Speaker 1: a crack house down there. And this guy is from
29:07
Speaker 1: the county, uh, you know, the white suburban county out
29:10
Speaker 1: in the suburbs. Let's pull him over. That's racial profile.
29:14
Speaker 1: That's the same same thing but different. Well it's the
29:17
Speaker 1: same thing, yeah, but you know what I mean. Um,
29:21
Speaker 1: all right, so let's talk about probable cause analysis. This
29:23
Speaker 1: is good. There's, um, during a traffic stop, there's there's
29:27
Speaker 1: several things a cop can do and each one requires
29:30
Speaker 1: different kinds of cause in order for it to be legal. Um. Yeah, Again,
29:38
Speaker 1: they aren't supposed to just pull you over for no reason.
29:42
Speaker 1: They're not supposed to. You're supposed to fit some sort
29:44
Speaker 1: of either you broke a traffic law or you fit
29:48
Speaker 1: a profile that that has been agreed upon. Is okay, Yeah,
29:53
Speaker 1: but a cop to pull over for. And again we're
29:55
Speaker 1: not knocking police officers hard work, and mostly they do
30:00
Speaker 1: rate work. But a cop can pull someone over for
30:03
Speaker 1: anything and say, like, when you made that turn, you
30:07
Speaker 1: swung a little too wide, or you hit that yellow line,
30:10
Speaker 1: and um, so I'm suspicious that you're drunk, like you know.
30:16
Speaker 1: Like that, you can almost invent a reason to pull
30:19
Speaker 1: someone over and under any circumstances. So let's just start
30:22
Speaker 1: with that. When you pull over a car, UM, Supposedly,
30:26
Speaker 1: to pull someone over, legally, you need to have witnessed
30:29
Speaker 1: a violation UM. Or you can run the plates and
30:32
Speaker 1: see if their cars stolen or if there's a warrant
30:35
Speaker 1: out for the owner. That's a big thing you see
30:37
Speaker 1: on cops all the time. UM. And the cop can
30:40
Speaker 1: make a stop as long as they can describe specific
30:44
Speaker 1: factors that fit the profile. Right car, car full of
30:48
Speaker 1: black kids. Not okay to just pull that car over,
30:51
Speaker 1: not for that reason. But if they say, like I
30:55
Speaker 1: saw um smoke coming out the windows. Um, they were
30:59
Speaker 1: driving around aradically and it smelled like pot smoke from
31:03
Speaker 1: the road, then that is a reason Number two. When
31:09
Speaker 1: you go to a question the suspect, that's moving things
31:11
Speaker 1: up a notch. Uh, you don't have to get a
31:13
Speaker 1: ticket when you get pulled over. You might just get
31:15
Speaker 1: questioned if you seem suspicious. Um, and they can you know,
31:18
Speaker 1: they'll shine that light in the car and they'll look
31:20
Speaker 1: at everything that they can see without actually searching the car. Yeah,
31:24
Speaker 1: and that's well within their right what's called plane view exactly.
31:28
Speaker 1: So if you have like a bag of pots sitting
31:30
Speaker 1: out on the front seat with you and the cops
31:32
Speaker 1: sees it, that just opened your entire car and your
31:35
Speaker 1: person up to a search. Yes, and you that means
31:37
Speaker 1: you are super high because now now there's probable cause.
31:41
Speaker 1: But if you have long hair and you have an
31:45
Speaker 1: open half gallon of ice cream next to you, still
31:48
Speaker 1: not enough. My race is suspicions, but that still should
31:51
Speaker 1: not be enough to um give them probable cause to
31:54
Speaker 1: search your car. Well, I got profiled in Texas. Me
31:57
Speaker 1: and my best friend Brett many years ago I to college,
32:00
Speaker 1: did a big out west trip for two months and
32:04
Speaker 1: the cops said he didn't put He said he pulled
32:06
Speaker 1: us over because I didn't have my seat belt on. Um,
32:09
Speaker 1: why he really pulled us over? Us because we were
32:11
Speaker 1: too scruffy looking guys with tattoos and beards in a
32:15
Speaker 1: Volkswagen van. Um, and he searched the van. He asked
32:20
Speaker 1: if he could, and we said he could, And he
32:22
Speaker 1: searched the van for like an hour on the side
32:24
Speaker 1: of the road. Long story short, chucked in five years,
32:28
Speaker 1: five hard ones. No, we didn't get caught with anything,
32:32
Speaker 1: and we got away. And he basically was mad at
32:34
Speaker 1: us that he wasted his time, and the last thing
32:36
Speaker 1: he said was a get out of Texas. So and
32:38
Speaker 1: I said, I'm trying to sir. But the point is
32:41
Speaker 1: that that cop asked you if he could search your car,
32:45
Speaker 1: right he did, and that if you give consent, then
32:49
Speaker 1: you were waving your Fourth Amendment rights. But you don't
32:51
Speaker 1: have to give consent. Not many people know this. And
32:54
Speaker 1: there's some states that make the cop tell you you
32:57
Speaker 1: are allowed to refuse the search of your car. Um.
33:01
Speaker 1: Not all states do. I've never heard it either. Um. Instead,
33:05
Speaker 1: the cop just says, can I search your car in
33:07
Speaker 1: the most intimidating voice possible, And most people will just
33:11
Speaker 1: fold like a house of cards, um, because they're scared
33:14
Speaker 1: of the cop or whatever. Even if they do have
33:16
Speaker 1: something in there, they're not going to be like, Nope,
33:18
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to search the car. So the point
33:21
Speaker 1: where the cop asks if he can search the car
33:24
Speaker 1: is usually in the absence of something that nothing in
33:28
Speaker 1: plain sight, but also that cops suspicious suspicions are raised.
33:34
Speaker 1: He just can't quite prove it. So I'll ask you
33:36
Speaker 1: if you can search your car. If you say no,
33:39
Speaker 1: the cop can say, well, I'm I'm going to detain
33:43
Speaker 1: you temporarily. Right Basically, I can go, I will wait
33:47
Speaker 1: it out, I can get a warrant. I'm gonna search
33:49
Speaker 1: that car, right, Okay. If he wants to get a warrant,
33:52
Speaker 1: that's different. Like what he's doing now is trying to
33:55
Speaker 1: do everything he can to search your car without having
33:58
Speaker 1: to go to the trouble of getting a warrant without
34:01
Speaker 1: probable cause like seeing a bag of pot in the
34:03
Speaker 1: front seat. Right time was that they could detain you
34:08
Speaker 1: for up to like ninety minutes while they called the
34:10
Speaker 1: canine unit out, And the canine unit has been shown
34:13
Speaker 1: to if the canine unit sniffs around your car, that's
34:17
Speaker 1: not an unreasonable search. And if the canine smells something
34:20
Speaker 1: or indicates that there are drugs present, then that does
34:23
Speaker 1: provide probable cause for a full search under the Fourth Amendment.
34:26
Speaker 1: Right they change that. Yeah. Um. In April this past April,
34:32
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court had decision that said, no, you really
34:36
Speaker 1: can't make people wait around while the drug dog comes out.
34:39
Speaker 1: They're like, we're not opposed to that, but the point
34:41
Speaker 1: of a traffic stop is to promote and encourage traffic safety,
34:46
Speaker 1: not to cast a drug drag net for drug couriers. Um.
34:51
Speaker 1: And you you cannot detain people without a reasonable suspicion
34:57
Speaker 1: to wait for the drug dog to come out. If
34:59
Speaker 1: they tell you you can't, they you're not allowed to
35:01
Speaker 1: search their car. That's good. I wonder if it had
35:03
Speaker 1: anything to do with um. If you look up online,
35:07
Speaker 1: there are ways that cops can make a drug dog signal,
35:10
Speaker 1: basically by how they're handling the dog, and there's a
35:15
Speaker 1: lot of suspicion, and they'll play him side by side,
35:17
Speaker 1: like you see this cops doing it right, And if
35:19
Speaker 1: you see this cop, watch this little thing he does.
35:21
Speaker 1: Then the dog barks. And basically there was a lot
35:25
Speaker 1: of speculation that bad cops would use the well not that,
35:30
Speaker 1: but yeah, essentially making the dog signal a false alert
35:33
Speaker 1: just to give them reason. Well, the dog barked, So
35:35
Speaker 1: now I can I can search your car or and
35:39
Speaker 1: maybe it all started because I meant to bring this
35:41
Speaker 1: up a second ago. Suspicion can be they seem nervous, right,
35:46
Speaker 1: Like everyone's nervous when a cop pulls them over, even
35:49
Speaker 1: if you haven't done anything. It's just nerve wracking. It's
35:52
Speaker 1: like white coat blood pressure. Yeah. I mean, like a
35:54
Speaker 1: lot of people's blood pressure is high at the doctor
35:56
Speaker 1: because they're nervous about, you know, being at the doctor.
35:59
Speaker 1: There's someone's standing at my window with a gun, right
36:03
Speaker 1: Like it's nerve wracking. Yeah. So the Supreme Court said, no,
36:06
Speaker 1: you guys, you have to have a reasonable suspicion to
36:08
Speaker 1: detain somebody on the side of the road that they've
36:11
Speaker 1: committed another crime. It can't just be I'm pulling you over.
36:15
Speaker 1: You have to wait for ninety minutes while the drug
36:17
Speaker 1: dog comes out so I can bust you or try
36:19
Speaker 1: to bust you or whatever. That was. That was a
36:21
Speaker 1: big deal that they came up with that. Yeah, we
36:24
Speaker 1: didn't in Texas. We didn't have the drug dog come out,
36:26
Speaker 1: but we were I felt like we were on the
36:29
Speaker 1: side of the road for an hour while he dug
36:30
Speaker 1: through that entire van um just you could tell he
36:34
Speaker 1: was he really wanted to find something. Yeah, all right,
37:04
Speaker 1: let's open the canib worms, my friend. Racial profiling. It's
37:08
Speaker 1: a big, big deal in this country. It's a problem,
37:13
Speaker 1: and um let's talk about it. Okay, that's good. Uh.
37:17
Speaker 1: So that is basically it's a form of predicted profiling,
37:21
Speaker 1: uh where one of, if not the only factor, is
37:24
Speaker 1: skin color. Right that like, um oh, let's say that, um,
37:30
Speaker 1: Mexican people are way more um prone to sell meth.
37:36
Speaker 1: So let's go hang out at that Hispanic neighborhood. Right,
37:40
Speaker 1: but there's a couple of things wrong with that, um,
37:44
Speaker 1: and that is racial profiling. Some people actually defend it, saying, well,
37:51
Speaker 1: if you look at prison statistics, Hispanics are far more
37:56
Speaker 1: likely to be imprisoned for drug crimes than say, white
37:59
Speaker 1: p bowl, so that makes sense, right right, Okay. The
38:04
Speaker 1: other saying right right, I'm playing along here. The other
38:07
Speaker 1: side of the coin is that you can use those
38:11
Speaker 1: same statistics to point to the idea that Hispanics and
38:15
Speaker 1: Blacks are disproportionately targeted for drug busts than other people. Right,
38:21
Speaker 1: and so the same this is an ed points out
38:24
Speaker 1: This is one of the problems with this debate is
38:28
Speaker 1: both sides used the same statistics differently to prove their point. Yeah.
38:33
Speaker 1: Another thing he points out is that people that say
38:37
Speaker 1: some people will say that it is institutionalized racism and
38:40
Speaker 1: its harassment of minority Yeah, straight up. People who defend
38:44
Speaker 1: against it say, cops harass criminals, and if those criminals
38:48
Speaker 1: happen to be minorities, t s. That's not our fault.
38:52
Speaker 1: And I think that's just the reality of the world
38:54
Speaker 1: we live in. Even further, there's people who say, yes,
38:58
Speaker 1: racial profiling is the thing, and it's an effective tool
39:00
Speaker 1: of law enforcements. Sorry, welcome the reality. Um. Those people
39:06
Speaker 1: usually have their arguments demolished pretty quickly, including by professionals.
39:10
Speaker 1: I read this UM this interview or well an article
39:14
Speaker 1: about the former chief chief of police of Palo Alto
39:18
Speaker 1: around San Francisco area, and UM, he also grew up
39:23
Speaker 1: as an Oakland cop, and he was talking about that
39:27
Speaker 1: kind of racial profiling that you were where they would
39:29
Speaker 1: just sit out and like, um, high crime neighborhoods and
39:31
Speaker 1: pull over anybody white, and they were doing like that
39:34
Speaker 1: for the same reasons. And he was saying it almost
39:37
Speaker 1: never worked. He said that, Um, they also would have
39:39
Speaker 1: like long dragnets on stretches of highway and they would
39:43
Speaker 1: target Hispanic people in like low riders and he said
39:46
Speaker 1: almost never worked. And he said that it's ineffective. Right,
39:51
Speaker 1: it's also lazy policing, because he said, the better alternative
39:55
Speaker 1: is to forget who who's what color, but just watch
39:59
Speaker 1: for somebody be leaning in a car that's just pulled
40:01
Speaker 1: over under the curb, or somebody making furtive moment movements. Right,
40:07
Speaker 1: look for behavior that is actually linked to crime. Not
40:09
Speaker 1: there's a white person in a black high crime neighborhood,
40:12
Speaker 1: so therefore their their um, they're buying drugs, or even
40:17
Speaker 1: even worse than that, there's a black person who lives
40:20
Speaker 1: in a high crime neighborhood, they must be a drug dealer.
40:24
Speaker 1: Let me go stop and frisk them. Um, that that
40:27
Speaker 1: is just lazy policing. It's it's shorthand policing. Whereas if
40:32
Speaker 1: you look for actual criminal behaviors you're going to have
40:36
Speaker 1: you're going to be far more successful in busting the
40:38
Speaker 1: bad guys. But even worse than it being like lazy
40:41
Speaker 1: policing and ineffective in a lot of ways, this guy
40:43
Speaker 1: pointed out, like, and I've seen this in many different places.
40:47
Speaker 1: If you want to encourage mistrust and animosity toward the police,
40:53
Speaker 1: scoop up every member in the community and take him
40:55
Speaker 1: to jail, just on the off chance that you might
40:58
Speaker 1: find something that sticks. If you want to set a
41:01
Speaker 1: town off or any population off, do that for a
41:05
Speaker 1: few years and see what happens. And that's what we've
41:08
Speaker 1: been seeing time and time again. It's systematic. Yes, it's
41:11
Speaker 1: systematic targeting and then a systematic reaction to uh. And
41:15
Speaker 1: I mentioned cops a lot. If you're out there saying, well, yeah,
41:18
Speaker 1: but on cops every time they pull over, that's a
41:22
Speaker 1: shady black guy in the neighborhood he has something on
41:24
Speaker 1: him and gets arrested. Or that white kid in the
41:27
Speaker 1: bad neighborhood, he's there to buy drugs. It's a TV
41:29
Speaker 1: show that's edited. Right. They don't show you the twenty
41:33
Speaker 1: five stops where there is no crime because it would
41:36
Speaker 1: not be a fun TV show. Exactly all right. So
41:38
Speaker 1: I think people use that as like dummies use that
41:41
Speaker 1: as proof sometimes, like watch cops Man every single time, right,
41:45
Speaker 1: Like yeah, exactly right, Like all all Matthe users are
41:49
Speaker 1: scrawny and white. So if you see a scrawny white guy,
41:53
Speaker 1: matthe User, that's right, or marathon runner right, you know.
41:58
Speaker 1: Uh So, obviously there can be h rogue cops, racist
42:03
Speaker 1: cops that are doing their thing on a on a
42:06
Speaker 1: singular level or with their partner. But it becomes a
42:08
Speaker 1: real real problem. That's a problem. It becomes a super
42:12
Speaker 1: real problem when it is part of the system. Uh
42:16
Speaker 1: In which was the case with the New Jersey State
42:18
Speaker 1: troopers in the late nineties. They did a ten year
42:21
Speaker 1: study and found out that eighty percent of all traffic
42:24
Speaker 1: stops were minorities over a ten year period, and they
42:30
Speaker 1: found that there was a quote macho elitist culture within
42:33
Speaker 1: the state trooper ranks end quote and um. Basically, even
42:38
Speaker 1: though they officially said racial profiling isn't right, there was
42:44
Speaker 1: a system in place where veterans would really coach and
42:48
Speaker 1: teach the younger cops like this is how we're doing it,
42:52
Speaker 1: and they were basically outed. Um. The authorities assigned federal
42:56
Speaker 1: monitors to those troopers, and evidently by two thousand six
43:00
Speaker 1: they had um a report suggested they had eliminated that
43:03
Speaker 1: profiling completely. Yeah, which is good if that's the case,
43:07
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm sure it is. New Jersey State
43:11
Speaker 1: troopers are intimidating. You ever seen those guys, and they're
43:13
Speaker 1: the ones that look like the military uniforms, which is
43:16
Speaker 1: a whole other issue altogether. Well, I mean not like
43:19
Speaker 1: M sixteen, but they talk about like like the dress blues, yeah,
43:24
Speaker 1: boots and all that. Um. It turns out, Chuck, twenty
43:27
Speaker 1: two states have lawns that band racial profiling of motorists,
43:31
Speaker 1: which is great until you think that that also means
43:34
Speaker 1: that states don't. It's kind of weird if you ask me.
43:39
Speaker 1: Um and uh. I found a study also from Illinois
43:44
Speaker 1: that found that in Illinois, black and Hispanic drivers were
43:47
Speaker 1: two times likelier to be stopped and searched, but white
43:51
Speaker 1: drivers were two times likelier to have contraband on them.
43:56
Speaker 1: That weird. Not only weird, it's it's startling. How it's
44:01
Speaker 1: it's not effective, Like there it's not leading to stopping crime, yeah,
44:07
Speaker 1: which is sort of the point. Well. And then another
44:10
Speaker 1: very controversial a bout of racial profiling that this country
44:14
Speaker 1: went through came after September eleven, and in the aftermath
44:19
Speaker 1: of that, you would remember every every month or two
44:22
Speaker 1: you'd hear about someone who sometimes seeks who aren't even
44:27
Speaker 1: Arab would get kicked off of like a plane or
44:29
Speaker 1: something like that because they made the pilot nervous just
44:32
Speaker 1: being there. Yeah, or T s A would would like
44:36
Speaker 1: pat down. Um. Just proportionately more Arab people than white people. Um.
44:42
Speaker 1: And now supposedly they based it on your behavior rather
44:46
Speaker 1: than your race, so they're not racial profiling any longer, supposedly,
44:49
Speaker 1: and it is. I have to say, I haven't heard
44:51
Speaker 1: of one of those cases in a while, but it
44:53
Speaker 1: seemed like for a while we're hearing about it all
44:55
Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, I think there was a heightened sense
44:58
Speaker 1: of everything back then. Of course right after. But so
45:01
Speaker 1: this guy who used to manage the Ben Gurion Airport
45:04
Speaker 1: in um Israel, Rafael Ron, he pointed out that that
45:08
Speaker 1: was the exact opposite of what you want to do. Yeah.
45:11
Speaker 1: He said, the worst tech in the history of this
45:12
Speaker 1: airport was carried out by Japanese in the early seventies.
45:17
Speaker 1: And he said, if we're focusing on an ethnic group,
45:19
Speaker 1: then we're potentially missing someone that's about to do something bad, right,
45:23
Speaker 1: which is exactly what happened in two at that airport.
45:26
Speaker 1: Three members of the Japanese Red Army walked in with
45:30
Speaker 1: machine guns and violin cases and just opened them up
45:33
Speaker 1: and started opening fire on the crowd and killed I think,
45:37
Speaker 1: um twenty six people. And they were hired by the PLO.
45:42
Speaker 1: PLO knew that they could never walk into the the
45:45
Speaker 1: Israeli airport, but the Japanese people would unnoticed. And so
45:49
Speaker 1: this guy is saying the same thing like, if you're
45:51
Speaker 1: really on the lookout for your enemy, like again, watch
45:54
Speaker 1: for behavior, like do actual police work. Don't just use
45:58
Speaker 1: this lazy shorthand stuff because it's gonna it's going to
46:00
Speaker 1: take off this entire population and it's going to cause
46:03
Speaker 1: in you to miss the real crime. Well, yeah, you've
46:06
Speaker 1: got like it sounds like a movie. Them the cops
46:10
Speaker 1: are at the airport and they detained this, uh, this
46:13
Speaker 1: Arab guy who's like late for a business meeting. And
46:15
Speaker 1: then in the in the same shot, the uh, the
46:18
Speaker 1: white dude who was a Timothy McVeigh just walks right
46:22
Speaker 1: behind him with the with the bomb on his body.
46:24
Speaker 1: You realize you just described the subplot to Airplane Too,
46:30
Speaker 1: did I? Yeah, remember Sonny Bono had the bomb. A
46:34
Speaker 1: little mild mannered weasily dude. Yeah, that's right, And I
46:37
Speaker 1: think he walks through while they're jacking up some like
46:40
Speaker 1: I think plo dudes. Maybe that was subconscious. Wow, so
46:45
Speaker 1: that's a profiling tip of the iceberg. I would call that. Oh, sure,
46:50
Speaker 1: there's we could do a series of shows on this.
46:53
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Uh. And if you want to know more
46:56
Speaker 1: about profiling in the meantime, uh, type that word in
47:00
Speaker 1: the search bar of your favorite search engine, and I'm
47:03
Speaker 1: sure we'll bring up all manner of terrible stuff. You
47:06
Speaker 1: can also type it in the search bar at how
47:08
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com and it will bring up this
47:10
Speaker 1: article by the Crabs. Or And since I said grabs there,
47:13
Speaker 1: it's time for a listener mail. I'm gonna call this
47:17
Speaker 1: wee f us, which is short for a water enema
47:21
Speaker 1: from a water slide or from a slide. And this
47:25
Speaker 1: is from a Tiffany last name withheld. She says uh.
47:29
Speaker 1: As a kid, I remember being a chubby eleven year
47:31
Speaker 1: old girl excited for her first trip to Disney World
47:33
Speaker 1: in the water park then known as Typhoon. Lagoon had
47:36
Speaker 1: a brand new Neon green with black polka up bathing suit.
47:40
Speaker 1: It was all excited and Uh, to go down the Cowabunga,
47:43
Speaker 1: a two fourteen foot tall water slide on a steep
47:46
Speaker 1: sixty degree angle. They tell you to keep your ankles crossed,
47:50
Speaker 1: but it's a little chubby, eleven year old girl. My
47:52
Speaker 1: brain comprehended, but my little legs did not have the
47:54
Speaker 1: strength for all two d and fourteen feet Thank you
47:57
Speaker 1: see where this is headed. After plumbing the bottom, immediately
48:00
Speaker 1: knew something was not right. I clinched my thighs as
48:03
Speaker 1: tightly as I could, pulling out the massive water slide wedgie.
48:08
Speaker 1: Not two steps from exiting the slide, though, a different
48:11
Speaker 1: type of waterfall began to trickle down my legs. No
48:15
Speaker 1: matter how tightly I clinched, I couldn't stop it. I
48:17
Speaker 1: waddled up to a gorgeous Australian teenager employee and explain,
48:21
Speaker 1: I need a rest room right away. Uh. With a
48:24
Speaker 1: smug smile, he pointed all the way to the other
48:26
Speaker 1: side of the lagoon, which was a long walk. Just
48:29
Speaker 1: as I entered the bathroom, with all the force of
48:31
Speaker 1: the water that had entered my body, it exited and
48:35
Speaker 1: I single handedly shut down a small portion of Disney
48:38
Speaker 1: that day. As embarrassing as this was. I was more
48:41
Speaker 1: upset that my new bathing suit was ruined. My parents
48:43
Speaker 1: were furious because they had to show out fifty dollars
48:46
Speaker 1: for a new one Toronto. I hope I didn't gross
48:48
Speaker 1: you out too bad. I think of it as a
48:52
Speaker 1: cautionary lesson for your listeners. Thanks for all your hard work. UM,
48:57
Speaker 1: I hope to see you guys sometime in Detroit and October.
49:01
Speaker 1: Tiffany last name with held. We're just gonna call you
49:04
Speaker 1: Tiffany poopy pants. We're coming to Detroit in October. Yes,
49:09
Speaker 1: ostensibly ostensibly, and also we want to say Detroit in
49:13
Speaker 1: advance of us coming. We're sorry for all of the
49:15
Speaker 1: jokes we made about you, though. It'll all come home
49:18
Speaker 1: to roost. See you in October. If you want to
49:21
Speaker 1: tell us a gross story that happened when you were
49:22
Speaker 1: a kid, like yeah, don't, just tell us something else
49:26
Speaker 1: and tweet to us at s Y s K podcast,
49:29
Speaker 1: Join us on Facebook dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know,
49:31
Speaker 1: Send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff
49:34
Speaker 1: Works dot com, and join us our at home on
49:36
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49:41
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49:43
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