Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of Co-Working | Jean Chandler | S8 E22
Transcript
- 00:00:04:00 - 00:00:43:01 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to this final edition of Archtober. Archtober, I don't know how we're supposed to pronounce it. It's architects and architecture, so Archtober, I guess, it's the future of co-working. And we're excited to have Jean Chandler, member of International Interior Design Association, dynamic design leader who has over 20 years of experience redefining how workplaces function mostly in New York City with big firms and for the past five years has been leading design at Industrious, one of the big co-working players, where she is currently the VP of Global Design. 00:00:43:03 - 00:00:47:03 Speaker 1 Jean, thank you so much for joining us on Future of XYZ today. 00:00:47:05 - 00:00:51:23 Speaker 2 Lisa, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm excited to get into it with you. 00:00:52:00 - 00:01:12:14 Speaker 1 I am as well because co-working, is, one of those topics that I think people maybe is misunderstood. But before we go there, based on your deep expertise and the conversation we're going to have, let's start as we always do at Future of XYZ, what is how do we want to define co-working? 00:01:12:16 - 00:01:28:19 Speaker 2 Co-working to me is an amazing place that supports all of your needs. What you need at a day at work, what you need as a human without necessarily being mandated to a company provided space. 00:01:28:21 - 00:01:47:00 Speaker 1 It's pretty amazing. So. So basically you've just answered a little bit, but like it's obviously then different than a regular office, but like how and we'll get into like what makes a great co-working and all that. But like why is it different than a mandated office space? 00:01:47:02 - 00:02:08:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's it's it's interesting to be in this world. I, I started my career in workplace, and I've been there ever since. I was sort of bummed when all my friends graduated school and went on into hospitality careers, and I was like, oh my gosh, I just got this job designing offices. Sounds boring, but it actually is really fun. 00:02:08:04 - 00:02:34:19 Speaker 2 in all my years of experience in working with different companies, you sort of get to know that company, how they structure their business lines, what their tools are. and you custom build this machine that they can work within. but it's all very focused on, you know, that particular company, their culture, in a way, like a lot of the the questions are answered for you. 00:02:34:21 - 00:02:57:01 Speaker 2 I think what happens in the world of co-working, that's really fascinating, and maybe not for for new beginners, is you don't have the safety net of having a, kind of like a company values list or, you know, the exact type of jobs people are going to be doing tools are going to be using how they interact with each other. 00:02:57:03 - 00:03:18:07 Speaker 2 You have to sort of figure all that stuff out in a way that's pretty generic, but also feels highly specialized for people. So I think that would be the biggest difference is that I've worked for a lot of different offices of design, a lot of offices. There was an era where you had that big company color wall with a big company logo on it, and you walk in the door, and that's the statement, right? 00:03:18:07 - 00:03:53:08 Speaker 2 And so it's like, welcome. You have all your tools here that you need, but it's all about this particular company. And I think what's interesting when you walk through in a co-working space and you see the sign is just kind of like anybody belongs here, you know, which is a challenge on the design side because we're constantly having to look at the common areas in the Venn diagram of overlap, and then how to sort of create those specialty moments for tools or areas for people to focus that allow folks from all different backgrounds and different industries to really be productive and happy in those spaces. 00:03:53:11 - 00:04:19:11 Speaker 1 Well, you just talk to something that's interesting, like, so it's, you know, co-working traditionally quote unquote traditional. And I want to talk about the historic arc of it a little bit, but like it's remote workers and freelancers is traditionally who has used co-working. Right. But are they the only ones who benefit from co-working? Is there like a traditional profile of the ideal coworker versus like, what's actually happening right now? 00:04:19:13 - 00:04:43:21 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think at its root, you nailed it there. And, you know, it's it's kind of passé to talk about the pandemic, but I think the pandemic just exacerbated what was already happening, in people's hearts. Right. As as, more technology is developed for us to be more remote and lives are fuller, and work demands a lot of time out of our lives. 00:04:43:23 - 00:05:11:04 Speaker 2 It really is convenient and helpful to have that flexibility. So, you know, a lot of our members have other office spaces, whether they're working from home or they have a company provided office, and the membership that they have for the co-working space is just another one of the complement. So we have those types of folks. We have folks who have full enterprise, establishments operating out of, you know, the network of units that we have. 00:05:11:04 - 00:05:33:23 Speaker 2 So they'll have all of the top cities in the country, and they'll have room for 15 to 20 people in each of those. And then, yeah, we still have, the freelancers, the remote folks, the small business folks. So it's really, over the past few years, become quite an eclectic group of folks coexisting in our spaces. 00:05:34:00 - 00:05:58:12 Speaker 1 it's kind of what I experienced because I was doing a lot of co-working, running my own company prior to the pandemic, which started in 2018. My company started 2018, and now as a remote worker employed by a company, we have co-working in, there are primary location because no one is based in the primary location 100% of the time. 00:05:58:12 - 00:06:22:19 Speaker 1 So it's fascinating how that kind of you call it enterprise or corporate or organizational company attitude has changed. I want to take one step back because you mentioned that it really kind of like the trend accelerated as a result of the pandemic. but when did co-working kind of like when and where did it kind of first appear? 00:06:22:21 - 00:06:49:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, definitely. So, and my, in my research and coming on board, here of course, was like, let me figure out if I even want to work in this co-working world. What's this all about? And in my research, we traced back to like the 1980s with, with a company called Regis. and they're still in business today, and I think they're the kind of the largest business when it comes to flex co-working globally. 00:06:49:04 - 00:07:10:00 Speaker 2 so it started then. And then I think we all know, when WeWork kind of became a thing. I think the thing that made them different than Regis is they really made a bit of a lifestyle out of their workspaces. they really played up the community aspect, which I think a certain subset of folks were really interested in. 00:07:10:02 - 00:07:12:13 Speaker 1 The younger ones especially. I think is what you're leading towards. 00:07:12:18 - 00:07:37:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. The younger ones or like the ones who are kind of like living in those urban areas. And networking is really important. And sort of like, I think at a time in the world where the line between work and life was thin, you know, and it's still pretty thin, but I think at the at that time, you know, 15, 16 years ago, that was definitely, definitely a thing. 00:07:37:18 - 00:08:08:16 Speaker 2 And so, yeah, I think it's just continued to evolve from there. WeWork and Industrious have a pretty similar founding age and have been, you know, in on similar tracks for a long time with, with pretty big distinguishing differences. but yeah, I think Industrious is is really poised to at the scale that we're at kind of take advantage of a tidal wave, that the flex industry is, is having right now, amongst commercial real estate and workplace itself. 00:08:08:18 - 00:08:40:04 Speaker 1 Well, I want to get to that. I mean, I read this statistic that actually kind of blew my mind getting prepared for this, which was like the global I always like, you know, nerdy MBA that I am like the global market value of co-working is estimated between 20 and $28 billion right now in 2026. that equates to like over 40,000 co-working centers worldwide, serving over 5 million co-working members that I don't even know if that accounts for enterprise. 00:08:40:06 - 00:09:07:00 Speaker 1 And it's growing. I mean, the long term forecasts are saying by like 2033 you're at 16% growth. So you're like $63 billion business, which is like 16% year on year. It's like enormous. Most industries would love to have that. there are plenty of people who post-pandemic, you know, really just still want to work from home. And then there companies who own real estate or who are not seeing efficiencies, who want people to come in. 00:09:07:00 - 00:09:20:15 Speaker 1 And yet with this growth mindset, like, what do you say to people to convince them of the benefits of office, where you spent the beginning, a, you know, 20 years of your career to now in the co-working space? 00:09:20:17 - 00:09:51:17 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, firstly, I'll say co-working is definitely on a rip. And I think more more for enterprise customers, business owners, business decision makers than ever before. it's weird because co-working is sort of both in competition and in symbiosis with commercial real estate. Right. And I think the validity of how we partner with our landlords becomes more potent year over year. 00:09:51:19 - 00:10:16:01 Speaker 2 It used to be like, you'd have to have a really long conversation with a landlord to sort of convince them. And co-working and flex, like Industrious, offer a lot of benefits to to commercial real estate and landlords. Right. there's a social aspect. There's marketing, marketing aspect. And so a bit of a, of a privilege to have a place for folks who aren't in a place with their businesses to, like, be a tenant of yours. 00:10:16:01 - 00:10:46:07 Speaker 2 Yet that sort of get to be a tenant of yours. so, so yeah, I think the thing that's, that's really driving a lot of that growth, in my experience, is enterprise business leaders are kind of on to the expense of getting a bunch of square footage for their office, for folks who don't want to be there all the time. 00:10:46:09 - 00:11:10:06 Speaker 2 and signing on for that 10 to 15 year lease in a time like this where, you know, the world's moving very quickly and businesses are forced to fluctuate very quickly, it's not as easy to predict. So when you're and I know a lot of landlords are pivoting to the, to the 3 to 5 year, lease structures to sort of combat that as well. 00:11:10:08 - 00:11:35:21 Speaker 2 but but I think it's really appeasing when you find out, okay, here's a, here's a co-working or a flex space that my people can come to. there's a culture in born to it already, so you don't have to hire a front of house office person that's going to set up, you know, the way that they greet folks, you know, the way that they put out snacks, the way that they engage, have programing like that is really hard to do on your own. 00:11:35:23 - 00:11:53:23 Speaker 2 and it takes a really good front office staff to pull that off. so I always like to think, like Industrious has this amazing culture that if you're a member, you're just you get to be a part of it. and that's on top of your, your culture as a company, that you can then reflect as well. 00:11:53:23 - 00:12:20:20 Speaker 2 So I think it's that that's really pushing the envelope for us right now. And as a designer, like these are all really cool problems to solve, which is like our floor plates are built for small businesses. But now all of a sudden we're getting these needs for a larger businesses to come in. but flexibility is key. So they may be here for a season or a reason or a lifetime, and we have to kind of pivot around all of that. 00:12:20:22 - 00:12:32:03 Speaker 2 So, so there's really cool stuff going on with our floor plates right now. We think about modularity, and how we kind of accommodate the coming and going of these different trends of group sizes. 00:12:32:05 - 00:12:54:05 Speaker 1 It's so interesting. I mean, there are bunch of things here. I mean, Industrious’s mission is to meet people where they are to deliver a better work experience. your I mean, there are a couple of things here, but like you're the VP of Global Design at Industrious, which as you mentioned, was founded just a couple years after WeWork in 2012. 00:12:54:07 - 00:13:22:12 Speaker 1 It was recently acquired by CBRE, which is one of the world's largest real estate management firms, if not the largest, they and JLL. You have 250 plus locations all over the world, mostly US, Europe, but also UK and Asia and growing quickly. Like how? What is that value proposition of Industrious and versus competitive co-working spaces? Because there's so many options that people have. 00:13:22:14 - 00:13:49:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, definitely. CBRE is the largest real estate group in the world. that that I learned, it's really great to be a part of the fold of all of their products and their offerings. Right. So I think even just being, recognized as, as a company that's just on a rip and like, there's so much more of the pie that we can take together. 00:13:49:09 - 00:14:22:06 Speaker 2 CBRE really has commercial real estate sort of locked down in a lot of those other, those venues. But, yeah, I just think that the global piece of the job is so fun. We talk a lot about serving customers where they are, and this has been a way for us to unlock that network benefit so we can appeal to a lot more of those enterprise users that want to get into a market, but don't know how or don't have the tools to necessarily do that. 00:14:22:08 - 00:14:40:13 Speaker 2 And I think we've honestly been appealing to a lot of the customers that do have the tools and have been doing this for a long time. you know, if you come to mind and in the financial market, in the technology market, it's just that symbiosis of like working with each other and being an option and solution for them. 00:14:40:15 - 00:15:15:05 Speaker 2 Sometimes they'll come into a mature asset, sometimes they'll come in ahead of us having an asset somewhere and be like, hey, you want to go in here together? and then we're launching another product that we're calling managed managed by, which really caters to those enterprise customers. So that doesn't even need to fall within an Industrious location, but you're still going to get that touch of design, the smartness around productivity, enjoy the benefits of all of our supply chain and that really stellar hospitality service that really earmarks like our cultural impact on our businesses cultures. 00:15:15:07 - 00:15:22:20 Speaker 2 So that's something we're really excited about moving in into the future, that's helping us grow globally as well. 00:15:22:22 - 00:15:42:02 Speaker 1 Yeah, I can imagine. one of the things that's interesting to me when you think about co-working, I mean, back in the day, like the WeWorks or where I was, which was like, you know, they took, you know, restaurants in New York City that weren't being used and then. Right, like it was, it was amazing. that just got destroyed during Covid for obvious reasons. 00:15:42:04 - 00:16:04:15 Speaker 1 but increasingly and you've just alluded to it a little bit, you know, well, being and fitness amenities and like obviously like the tech stack and, and and these, you know, the snacks of course, you know, can't forget the game rooms but like all these amenities plus like upskilling and courses and knowledge sharing or whatever. But like these amenities are a huge part of co-working. 00:16:04:15 - 00:16:22:07 Speaker 1 They're a huge part of work culture, it seems. And office culture today. What does what does that look like in the co-working space of kind of, let's say, the future? yeah. But beyond just today, I know it's hot right now, but is that going to stick around? Is that just going to keep growing? 00:16:22:09 - 00:16:59:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, this is one of those trends that people have a lot of opinions about. And I've I've lived through many trends cycles now in my career. I think wellness is a deeper one though, because it really it, it really touches on our humanity. And I think for a long time, like ever since the beginning of public workplace, you know, when offices came out of the home and into a shared space, like it's really been about pushing human productivity, to the max, I often tell my design team about a post office that's recently been renovated, in Chicago's West Loop. 00:16:59:07 - 00:17:17:10 Speaker 2 And I looked at, at it for a customer a while back. and we're walking through the floor plate, and there was this mezzanine kind of chasing around overhead. And the landlord was like that mezzanine is where the managers used to stand, and they used to look down on the workers and make sure they were meeting their quotas and they weren't doing anything. 00:17:17:12 - 00:17:40:00 Speaker 2 So I think for, for many for a century, maybe work has felt like this place where you go to kind of be supervised and managed and work. Factory style. That's right. I mean, it it has been that way for a long time. And I think like the advent of the cubicle and the private office and the bullpen and a lot of ways, like a lot of these things still kind of prescribe to that. 00:17:40:00 - 00:17:58:14 Speaker 2 But I think it's tough to manage a business when it's remote. And people are kind of just out there on their own. And what we find is, if you encourage people to be in their happiest place and you're empowering them to do the work that fulfills them, I mean, you don't even have to use the word productivity, right? 00:17:58:14 - 00:18:18:06 Speaker 2 And the wellness piece is like, we all work a little too much sometimes and we get worn out. And I always think of Mariah Carey, you know, like, you know, when she's exhausted, she's exhausted, and she needs to check herself in somewhere. And like, obviously I'm not I've not been to that point. But like, I think we can all identify with that a little bit. 00:18:18:06 - 00:18:47:03 Speaker 2 So yeah. Yeah, it's it's work is more of a part of life, and life is more of a part of work. And there's moments of restore, restoration and meditation and even like getting that 20 minutes of movement or whatever they say, like you need to get per day to just to stay at zero. Right? Like the spaces that we're creating have to provide and allow for that. 00:18:47:05 - 00:19:15:00 Speaker 1 I absolutely, love that interpretation of of what wellness is in the workplace. I want to just talk about your own design philosophy a bit, which I know is very heavy on economic responsibility and flexibility. can you, Jean, talk about what this looks like in terms of, like, waste and I mean, like, cost waste? I mean, human well-being waste. 00:19:15:00 - 00:19:28:02 Speaker 1 And of course, frankly, the environment which seems to inherit all of the physical and externality waste, of kind of constant renovation that seems to happen in the workplace. 00:19:28:04 - 00:19:52:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, definitely. I mean, this was a huge contributor to me switching over to the dark side of co-working from, building out commercial real estate headquarters and things like that. And, you know, living and working in New York City. It's competitive. You're out there fighting for the same jobs with firms, and you need to be your sharpest at all times and doing the coolest, newest stuff. 00:19:52:04 - 00:20:11:09 Speaker 2 And you get hired and you do these jobs that, and maybe it was a time, maybe in the tech world or the fintech world and, you know, there's a lot of money moving around in investments, and we're spending all of it. Right. And and there was a justification for that. It's what we were being hired to do. 00:20:11:11 - 00:20:29:24 Speaker 2 And I remember working for a big tech company, and we built out a whole floor for one of their brands. And they honestly, before even moving in, they bought a different building and built out a different space. And so and then they just demolished that space because it was going to go over to something else, and it wasn't the right build out. 00:20:30:01 - 00:20:52:15 Speaker 2 And I think that's just one example of, you know, how quickly things can pivot in, in our world, especially with the fickle nature of like the ups and downs of the market and the speed with which things are information is happening. So when I was looking into making the shift over to co-working, it's like the idea that's really beautiful to me. 00:20:52:15 - 00:21:27:04 Speaker 2 And it's it's a simple design, but the room stays the way that it is and the people move in and out of it like there's upgrades that we do. There's shifts and changes. We're always improving on the next version of things. But it remains true that like the rooms are where they are and the people are always flowing, and that allows us to keep units relevant for like ten years, which right now in this world is like, if you think about like a hotel, for instance, like a lot of people don't want to stay at that hotel that's been open and, you know, not updated. 00:21:27:04 - 00:21:33:17 Speaker 2 So I think there's a timelessness to to the type of spaces we're creating. There's a simplicity to them. 00:21:33:19 - 00:21:37:01 Speaker 1 And that's also about design excellence. I mean, let's be honest. 00:21:37:03 - 00:22:07:01 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. It's we're not planning for that obsolescence. Right. Which I think when you're, when you're out there just trying to compete with your brand and your company to acquire the best talent, like I get why people make these decisions. But at the end of the day, like if an individual doesn't feel like a better person for, you know, having gone somewhere to a place and been there and contributed to something all day, it's kind of a lot of flash in the pan, you know? 00:22:07:03 - 00:22:30:08 Speaker 2 so yeah, I take pride in that. I think we, we specify finishes that are timeless in esthetic, but still feel really warm and inviting that are here to to wear with the best of we try when we can to like not procure off the red list. Right. we're always being super conscientious of things like daylight and access to movement and water. 00:22:30:10 - 00:22:37:18 Speaker 2 You know, we're not well certified across the board and in some locations we are. But we try to we try to build off of those tenements when we can. 00:22:37:20 - 00:22:54:16 Speaker 1 I I'm there a couple of wonky things in there. Well certified is one of the big, built environment, sustainability, health and wellness kind of criteria. I don't want to get into it with lead and bream and some of the others for people watching and listening who are in the built world. and then you mentioned the red list. 00:22:54:16 - 00:22:59:19 Speaker 1 Can you just, Jean really quickly, because I know you red list, but I don't know which one you're referring to. 00:22:59:21 - 00:23:31:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. For interior material specifications, there's there's an ever growing red list. And I think a lot of manufacturers, you know, who have ended up on it, have done a really great job of getting off of it. But essentially, when it comes to where you're manufacturing the conditions of the factory, its impact on the environment, the materials that you're used, the root materials that you're using to build your product, the afterlife of those materials, their biodegradability, all of that. 00:23:31:18 - 00:23:53:18 Speaker 2 you know, I think an example is like anything with a ton of PVC in it is kind of a no, no, it is a plastic, it's plastic. Right. So we try to stay away from, from that sort of stuff. And I think the biggest observation that I've made, you know, since being at Industrious is just like people are like plants and they need daylight, right. 00:23:53:20 - 00:24:01:04 Speaker 2 And so for us, like, we have a high density, a high level of private space, it's rough. Can't put everybody on the window. So they've had to get really crazy. 00:24:01:10 - 00:24:07:19 Speaker 1 Like the nutrition in the soil is really like water, daylight and nutrition in the soil. That's right. to use the plant analogy. 00:24:07:21 - 00:24:26:18 Speaker 2 That's right. Absolutely. I mean, we all know what happens when you put the plant in the dark room, right? so yeah, those are the things that challenge us and keep us up at night and we're really even through all of our underwriting metrics when we when we look at our business structure, we really talk about daylight through all of those. 00:24:26:20 - 00:24:49:11 Speaker 1 we're coming up on that time, which is really annoying because that happens a lot with these big topics. But I am curious. I mean, megatrends, you've been in this space for 20 plus years in the workplace space, you know, and when we think about the workplace of the future, you know, what the key features are. One of the things that I'm curious about and, and maybe I'm going down too far, rabbit hole. 00:24:49:11 - 00:25:10:05 Speaker 1 So you can answer this question how you want, but like, it feels to me like what is happening in a tier one, you know, urban environment like a London in L.A., in New York, Shanghai, Mexico City, Nairobi, you know, whatever versus what would be needed and desired in a tier two or tier three, kind of small to mid-sized market. 00:25:10:05 - 00:25:35:17 Speaker 1 Like, I'm thinking, like even the midsize markets like Austin, Marseilles, like Tallinn, Estonia, like these cool hot Porto, Portugal, you know, places where people are like going and living and need is there, like a mega trend that you're seeing across. And then is there something that's like starting to kind of separate out these places, or is that not even the right metric or division? 00:25:35:19 - 00:26:09:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. Real estate strategy and and market strategy is really important for us. And I think one of the things where on recently of the past couple of years and really getting into a stride with is like how to diversify a product that meets the need in those markets. it used to be like you were in a CBD central business district with a product like this, where all the other offices are, I think a lot of the smaller, competing co-working companies are really proving this point. 00:26:09:03 - 00:26:30:02 Speaker 2 Like, you can get out into the neighborhoods where people live or the neighborhoods that attract people, or cities that attract people where people want to be. There's a there is a product to serve that market as well. And it touches a little bit more on that lifestyle. That remote worker, that entrepreneur, that cool factor, that thrifted elegance. There's more layers to it. 00:26:30:04 - 00:26:51:13 Speaker 2 So we're playing around a bit with that ourselves. and I think it's like within each of those cities that you mentioned, there are fragments of a CBDS market and a residential type market or even a suburban one, for that matter, through a lot of swathes of cities in the US. Like it's almost like in the lack of a dense urban center. 00:26:51:13 - 00:27:12:05 Speaker 2 These sort of suburban centers, we call them Drive to Walk, are being built. Right. Just pulled up out of the cornfield. Then, like as much as folks from New York City might kind of be askance to that, like it really does feel good when you're in those markets that you have that place to be, to entertain yourself, to work, to stay, to live, to play. 00:27:12:07 - 00:27:24:24 Speaker 2 And there's a lot of cities where markets like that are popping up and being developed. So we try to to be on the list for any and all of them with a product that works for the people that are, that are there. 00:27:25:01 - 00:27:47:17 Speaker 1 it's it's so interesting. I love that, I never heard that drive to walk. it's why I love doing this podcast. Because you I always learn things. what you're describing, Jean, feels very much like co-working is. And the trend line of the number suggests it like it. Co-working is becoming infrastructure. yeah. Which is which is something very different. 00:27:47:17 - 00:28:08:14 Speaker 1 And I didn't expect us to get there. in this conversation, it is my last question, as always. My same question, in, let's imagine, 25 years out, that puts us and kind of 2050, 2051, really. what is your greatest hope for the future of co-working? 00:28:08:16 - 00:28:47:23 Speaker 2 I just hope that a lot of other formats for office continue to learn from what co-working is doing right now. And I think, I think this change is going to happen sooner than 25 years. But there is just this, you know, talk about social responsibility, environmental responsibility, and then the fiscal responsibility. And I guess, for me, like coming from a career where I spent a ton of money to create an experience, and now being in a place where I'm, you know, being calculated about what I'm spending and creating an even better experience, I think about that a lot, and I think that's on the top of mind for a lot of businesses out there 00:28:47:23 - 00:29:21:01 Speaker 2 right now, too. It's just like, well, do we really need to be spending, you know, $1,200 a foot? and so I hope that we continue to, to follow people in, in supporting them and how they want to work, that we continue to build environments that have a positive, eco impact, on, on the universe. And, I don't know, I'm just really excited for new technologies and how they're going to disrupt. 00:29:21:03 - 00:29:55:15 Speaker 2 And I'm actually really excited for the new generations coming up. And what that what that's even going to look like. You know, like I was recently visiting Australia for work and I went to a little co-working spot, which is actually more of a study hall spot in Melbourne. And there were a lot of young people in there still in school or just out, or maybe didn't even go to school, just working on projects, mostly in the digital space and communicating in a way that felt really digital but really personal at the same time. 00:29:55:17 - 00:30:18:03 Speaker 2 I feel like folks are like meeting online first and they're putting themselves into environment to do that. So I'm curious to, to to watch these trends and new generations coming in, bring their tools, bringing their prospects of how they work. And I hope that, the office space continues to, to support and track that in all of those positive ways. 00:30:18:05 - 00:30:36:02 Speaker 1 that's a that's kind of a nice vision for the future and for the next gens. Jean Chandler, thank you so much for joining us on Future of XYZ speaking about the future of co-working as the vice president of global design at Industrious, owned by CBRE. I really appreciate it. 00:30:36:04 - 00:30:39:00 Speaker 2 Thank you, Lisa, was really fun. 00:30:39:02 - 00:30:57:14 Speaker 1 for everyone watching, I if you didn't know, you can listen anywhere. You get your favorite podcast, but please be sure to leave us a five star review so others can find us. Also, if you are listening, you can watch on YouTube to see the faces of our illustrious guests. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media. 00:30:57:16 - 00:31:07:12 Speaker 1 especially Instagram at FutureofXYZ and iF Design, we will see you again in two weeks. Thanks again, Jean, for closing out Archtober with us. 00:31:07:14 - 00:31:09:12 Speaker 2 My pleasure. Thank you.