Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / GET OUT OF JAIL FREE! Dangerous new laws put perps out on the streets!

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GET OUT OF JAIL FREE! Dangerous new laws put perps out on the streets! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Go to truth finder dot com, slash Nancy and enter
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Speaker 1: any name to get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
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Speaker 1: on Serious x M Triumph Channel one thirty two. How
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Speaker 1: many stories have you read about where there was a
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Speaker 1: violent crime, a child less station, a rape, a murder,
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Speaker 1: or worse if you can imagine it, only to discover
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Speaker 1: the perpetrator was out on bond at the time of
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Speaker 1: the offense. The revolving door in our justice system resulting
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Speaker 1: in more and more violent crimes on innocent victims. I
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Speaker 1: mean it, See Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you
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Speaker 1: for being with us. An all star lineup with me
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Speaker 1: now to address the most recent string of attacks by
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Speaker 1: people out on bond while at this moment, so called
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Speaker 1: bail bond reform is sweeping the country, which allows people
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Speaker 1: who commit a crime to walk free with nothing more
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Speaker 1: than a piece of paper in their hand, no accountability
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Speaker 1: as more victims are added to the lists of statistics.
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Speaker 1: With me Star of Reality to v the President of
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Speaker 1: Professional Bill Agents of the US, Beth Chapman. Also with me,
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Speaker 1: defense lawyer Jason Oceans practicing in multiple jurisdictions, juvenile judge,
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Speaker 1: founder of child crime watch dot Com, Ashley Willcot Crime
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Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter Jennifer Sakowski, and with me bail bondsman
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Speaker 1: Scott Hall. Everyone welcome. First of all, to you, Jennifer,
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Speaker 1: I want to talk about first Ed French. I'm sure
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Speaker 1: you know who I'm talking about. Why does he factor
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Speaker 1: into this scenario? So this story starts with nineteen year
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Speaker 1: old La Monte Mims and twenty year old Fantacy Decorps
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Speaker 1: in San Francisco. LaMonte Mims he had been caught breaking
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Speaker 1: into cars in Twin Peaks in November of two thousand sixteen.
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Speaker 1: He served a mere three months in jail. Then on
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Speaker 1: July for Earth he was busted yet again, this time
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Speaker 1: for gun possession and parole violations, not small charges. Only
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Speaker 1: seven days later, on July eleven, he was let out
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Speaker 1: on an a thirtive case management a pre trial program
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Speaker 1: requiring chickens. They actually trusted this man to do checkens.
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Speaker 1: The judge in that case was following the public safety
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Speaker 1: Assessment which is also called the p p s A score.
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Speaker 1: Then only five days later after that Nancy are very
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Speaker 1: talented by all accounts, successful and good hearted man a French.
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Speaker 1: He was an avid photographer in San Francisco. He was
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Speaker 1: presumed to have been sitting against a wall taking beautiful
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Speaker 1: shots down Market Street with you're talking about a world
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Speaker 1: renowned photographer, Ed France. She was photographing a sunrise at
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Speaker 1: Twin Peaks and this man and woman sneak up on
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Speaker 1: him and murder him on the spot, just to steal
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Speaker 1: his camera. And as Honda Accord officers make a desperate
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Speaker 1: plea for tourists that may have video footage around that time.
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Speaker 1: And it was seven fifty in the morning. I mean,
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Speaker 1: come on, Beth Chapman, you're the reality star. Everybody you know,
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Speaker 1: dog the bounty hunter. This is best Chapman, Dog's wife
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Speaker 1: who was his co star for many many years now
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Speaker 1: the president of the Professional Bill Agents of the US.
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Speaker 1: At seven fifty in the morning, I'm driving the children
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Speaker 1: to school. I've been up since five working, and these
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Speaker 1: two are crawling up the side of a mountain so
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Speaker 1: they can murder somebody, a professional photographer world renown. This
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Speaker 1: is why we need accountability. Beth absolutely should have been
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Speaker 1: in jail. There's no way that he should have gotten
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Speaker 1: out a second time, nor the third time. And you know,
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Speaker 1: the thing about it is a lot of these people
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Speaker 1: have underlining problems and they don't realize those guys are
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Speaker 1: up all night long. They're up all night long, you know,
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Speaker 1: they're they're not sleeping. So there, you know, we used
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Speaker 1: to call that tweaked time. You know, it's when they
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Speaker 1: really don't know what time it is, they don't know
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Speaker 1: where they are, what they're doing, and they just commit
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Speaker 1: basically crime after crime after crime, you know. And that's
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Speaker 1: that's the problem with all of these pre trial movements
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Speaker 1: is that there's no stop gaps. There's no common sense
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Speaker 1: parameters that basically say, you know, look, if you're on
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Speaker 1: bond already, you don't get another one. If you fail
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Speaker 1: to appear already, don't get one. If you're just been
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Speaker 1: convicted of a crime, you're not getting one. And that's
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Speaker 1: what's really bothersome about the whole system. Well, this guy
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Speaker 1: was only about half a mile from his own home
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Speaker 1: and he's out. This professional photographer. There was a seventy
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Speaker 1: one year old man. He's been a world right now
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Speaker 1: photographer for years and years and years. And these two
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Speaker 1: knee up on the guy, murder him, shoot him in
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Speaker 1: the head for his camera. And as Honda Accord, Jason Oceans,
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Speaker 1: how can you, as of upstanding a very well known
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Speaker 1: defense attorney, support the so called bond reform for people
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Speaker 1: basically for a lot of different crimes get a ticket
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Speaker 1: and walk free. They don't have to post any bond
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Speaker 1: and they just walk free. There's no it's like a
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Speaker 1: pinky promise, Jason Oceans. Nancy, we know that anyone who's
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Speaker 1: arrested has presumed innocent under the law, and of course,
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Speaker 1: man fact, the innocent uh mostly guilty just to get out.
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Speaker 1: That's a repulsive practice. I mean I could cite many
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Speaker 1: cases of you know, a single mother in Harris County,
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Speaker 1: Texas who was arrested driving without a valid license, Judge
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Speaker 1: Setter bail. She couldn't afford anything. But see, that's not
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Speaker 1: the issue we're talking about. That's not the that's not
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Speaker 1: the issue we're even talking about. Jason. I'm not talking
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Speaker 1: about a graphic violation, Nancy, about valid bail reform and
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Speaker 1: the Heinish cases that we could all point out. Uh,
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Speaker 1: just like in ed French. Uh, there is like that
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Speaker 1: and so many are locked up. Well, of course you've
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Speaker 1: done a great job, Jason, of smoke and mirrors taking
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Speaker 1: it off. What we're talking about violent offenders getting out
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Speaker 1: and then repeat offending while they're on bail, while their
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Speaker 1: own bond. And with me two stars Beth Chapman and
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Speaker 1: Scott Hall in the industry respond plays Beth, Well, I
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Speaker 1: would I would like to discuss this with Jason, obviously,
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Speaker 1: because you know, there's an underlying crime here, okay, And
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Speaker 1: whether it's a misdemeanor or not a misdemeanor, we can't
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Speaker 1: just excuse the fact that this mother, the single mother,
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Speaker 1: as you said, was driving her car without a license.
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Speaker 1: That's a crime. It's a crime, okay, And so what
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Speaker 1: all of these you know, leftist people are are are boasting,
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Speaker 1: is that we should just turn a blind eye because
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Speaker 1: it's a minor crime. We should just turn the blind
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Speaker 1: eye because it was a you know, a driving offense.
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Speaker 1: You know, multiple driving offenses becomes a habitual traffic offender,
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Speaker 1: that becomes a prisonable offense. You know, we we cannot
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Speaker 1: just continue to just say, oh, it was just a
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Speaker 1: minor crime, just let him go because there's victims involved.
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Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, Beth, let me one up here
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Speaker 1: on this, Let me one up here on this. Does
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Speaker 1: the name Timothy McVeigh ring any alarms, any bells in
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Speaker 1: your heads? He was stopped on a traffic infraction, Scott Hall.
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Speaker 1: We all know that he's the Okay City bomber. He
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Speaker 1: brought down a whole federal building. So I'm not saying
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Speaker 1: I want people in jail FIRS traffic offense. That is
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Speaker 1: not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is don't make
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Speaker 1: light of those traffic stops. I'm focusing on people that
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Speaker 1: commit a crime, a substantive crime, and then they walk free.
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Speaker 1: And this bill reform idea is a horrible idea. It's
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Speaker 1: really an attack on victims. I mean, victims are the
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Speaker 1: ones that are in fact, denied justice when individuals failed
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Speaker 1: to appear. Bail is about one thing, It's about getting
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Speaker 1: someone to appear in court. And I'm so glad he
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Speaker 1: brought up Harris County, Texas, because the assertions in Harris
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Speaker 1: County when they put forth the injunction, they said there
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Speaker 1: would be no difference in the appearance rate, no difference.
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Speaker 1: And right now they just attempted to file an injunction
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Speaker 1: because full one half of their calendar, almost fifty of
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Speaker 1: the people that are charged with a crime are failing
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Speaker 1: to appear in court, fifty of the victims. And you
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Speaker 1: may think just because it's non violent, but the poor
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Speaker 1: black and brown victims of crime that live in the project,
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Speaker 1: that have their win, that broke out of their car,
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Speaker 1: that have their rent money stolen, Okay, they're the ones
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Speaker 1: that are being affected. You're the ones that are being
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Speaker 1: victimized a second and a third time, and they're the
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Speaker 1: ones that are going to take the law in their
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Speaker 1: own hand. And that mother that depends on that money
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Speaker 1: that was stolen, that the that the proponents of this
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Speaker 1: change you're saying we're helping, you're harming the very people
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Speaker 1: that you're saying you're advocating for Okay, we're over here
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Speaker 1: advocating for the law abiding people and the victims of
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Speaker 1: Chris Well. I'll tell you what concerns me and Ashley Wilcot,
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Speaker 1: this is what discurs me. In addition to Beth Chapman,
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Speaker 1: star reality TV dog Bounty Hunter, Jason Ocean's lawyer, Jennifer Zakowski,
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter and Heavy dot com Steve Hall,
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Speaker 1: Ash Wilcott JUVENI I'll judge and founder child crime watch
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Speaker 1: dot com. When I hear all the A c o
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Speaker 1: U and the defense attorneys are and the politicians are
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Speaker 1: for it, half the politicians are defense lawyers, all right.
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Speaker 1: So when I hear there for it, what does that
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Speaker 1: mean to me? It means it's bad for crime victims.
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Speaker 1: It is a matter of fact. Guess who else is
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Speaker 1: against it? California judges, judicial societies all across the country
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Speaker 1: are coming out against so called bail bond reform. Explain
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Speaker 1: why it is so wrong, Ashley. So from the judges perspective,
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Speaker 1: there two reasons. Number one, it does not take into
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Speaker 1: account the victim. It does not take that into account.
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Speaker 1: Number two, remember this, Nancy, I've been involved in a
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Speaker 1: lot of legislation down at the Capitol. And here's the thing.
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Speaker 1: Most of these proposed pieces of legislation, these included our
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Speaker 1: knee jerk reactions by some person who's decided it's a
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Speaker 1: great idea and it's not well thought out research based
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Speaker 1: on empirical research or data to ensure that victims are protected.
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Speaker 1: And that's what needs to happen that hasn't in proposed
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Speaker 1: legislation like that. You know. Back to you, Beth Chapman,
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Speaker 1: star of Dog the Bounding Hunter. This is Dog's wife.
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Speaker 1: I don't like introducing you that way as somebody else's wife.
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Speaker 1: You were also the president of the Professional Bill Agents
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Speaker 1: of the US, Beth. Uh. When I would get ready
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Speaker 1: at every prosecutor that was actually a trial lawyer, you know,
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Speaker 1: and actually appeared in court had to do bond hearings
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Speaker 1: as well. For a bond hearing, I may bring on
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Speaker 1: a witness that saw or was the victim of the crime,
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Speaker 1: a cop. I would have the rap sheet, the state
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Speaker 1: rap sheet and the federal rap sheet of defendants trying
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Speaker 1: to get out, suspects trying to get out, and I
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Speaker 1: would discuss all the reasons somebody should or shouldn't get
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Speaker 1: out of bond. Are they a risk, a flight risk?
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Speaker 1: Are they a threat to the community? Will they tamper
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Speaker 1: with witnesses? Is it in the cause of justice that
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Speaker 1: they get out? There are a lot of prongs to
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Speaker 1: a bond hearing. The judges are saying this beath. The
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Speaker 1: judges are saying that they proposed ows this because they
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Speaker 1: have their own standards about who walks free. Quote those
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Speaker 1: arrested for selling drugs, identity theft, vandalizing homes, businesses, stealing
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Speaker 1: huge sums of money, burglarizing. All of these people would
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Speaker 1: be granted pre trial release without ever appearing in front
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Speaker 1: of a judge. I don't want to see that person
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Speaker 1: walking across my backyard, Beth Chapman, Well, repeatedly walking across
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Speaker 1: your backyard, so right after you get him arrested, he
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Speaker 1: comes right back. I mean, that's that's the biggest problem
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Speaker 1: with this. But you know, taking the judges discretion out
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Speaker 1: of the equation is never going to be a good idea.
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Speaker 1: And you know, for people who just continue to say
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Speaker 1: the bail bondsman's are just making money off the poor.
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Speaker 1: Was so are the lawyers. You know, lawyers aren't giving
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Speaker 1: their practices away for free. I'm sure your defense attorney
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Speaker 1: here on the line. I'm sure he charges money, you know.
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Speaker 1: So it's it's all smoke in mirrors. Like you've said before,
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Speaker 1: it is a socialist idea. It's a basic a hugg
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Speaker 1: a thug campaign that is trendy right now because they
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Speaker 1: have gone down and they have convinced lawmakers and they've
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Speaker 1: convinced mayors of towns that they could save so much
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Speaker 1: money by releasing these people from jail. But the fact
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Speaker 1: is is that they have to have more pre trial
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Speaker 1: workers to take care of the massive amount of people
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Speaker 1: that they're releasing. So there is no money's saved because
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Speaker 1: all they're doing is taking it out of the jail
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Speaker 1: column and putting it into the pre trial Champion, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: It's important to understand and Harris County, Texas, the judges
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Speaker 1: are the ones that are fighting this reform. The judges
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Speaker 1: are the ones that are encouraging the county to continue
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Speaker 1: because they now see what's happening to their calendar. And
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Speaker 1: the proponents of these reforms typically take basically an exception.
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Speaker 1: They look for a very very narrow exception someone that
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Speaker 1: might in rather than basically fighting for a safety net okay,
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Speaker 1: some sort of safety net to take care of these
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Speaker 1: They want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Speaker 1: And what they're doing is they're victimizing again the very
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Speaker 1: constituents they advocate for, and that's the poor black and
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Speaker 1: brown members of our society that need help that don't
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Speaker 1: have an advocate. And that's what we are pushing for.
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Speaker 1: The bondsman, in many cases, are the way for these
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Speaker 1: people to get out. They're not rich, okay, when they
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Speaker 1: don't have money for a bond, they in fact come
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Speaker 1: to us to help them financing. We don't set the bond.
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Speaker 1: We're not the people that says release them. A judge
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Speaker 1: does that. And they even advocate for these algorithmic releases
15:44
Speaker 1: in attempt to replace Oh no, no, no, no, no no,
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Speaker 1: Ash Wilcott. You're a victims advocate like myself. I don't
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Speaker 1: want somebody an offender walking free based on a logarithm.
15:57
Speaker 1: No no. And but here's the thing, Anthy, if they
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Speaker 1: would be deliberate in this, they could come up with
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Speaker 1: a risk assessment based on empirical research and data that
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Speaker 1: a judge could do with the judge's discretion and still
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Speaker 1: protect those in society that will be harmed by these
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Speaker 1: continuing criminal perpetrators. Did you know about a recent law
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Speaker 1: Nancy enter your own name. Get started. Let me go
17:34
Speaker 1: back to Jennifer Tikowski with heavy dot Com and crime
17:37
Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter. I believe you have another case where
17:41
Speaker 1: the guys out on bond and commits a serious offense, Nancy,
17:46
Speaker 1: and this one is absolutely horrifying. Shook me to my core.
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Speaker 1: I just starts with Cherished Peri Weekle out of Jacksonville, Florida,
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Speaker 1: in innocent eight year old girl, Cherish, who was at
18:02
Speaker 1: Dollar General. She was shopping with her mother, Rain Perrywinkle,
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Speaker 1: and two sisters when a man approached them. This man
18:09
Speaker 1: was Donald Smith. He seemed like a really good man
18:13
Speaker 1: to Cherry, to Cherish his mother, he befriended her and
18:17
Speaker 1: then made what the mother thought was a general generous
18:20
Speaker 1: offer to buy the girl's clothes with a hundred dollar
18:24
Speaker 1: gift card that he said he had for Walmart. He
18:28
Speaker 1: also claimed that his wife was going to meet the
18:31
Speaker 1: family at Walmart. So this mother, Rain Perrywinkle said she
18:36
Speaker 1: told him, I don't quote with strangers, but if your
18:39
Speaker 1: wife is coming, then it's going to be okay. She
18:43
Speaker 1: made it up in her mind. You know it. It
18:46
Speaker 1: will be fine. Rain Perrywinkle gathered her children into Smith's
18:51
Speaker 1: white band for wife a ride to Walmart. Surveillance video
18:55
Speaker 1: at the store showed Rain, the girls, and Donald Smith
18:59
Speaker 1: shopping at Walmart for over an hour. In that time period,
19:04
Speaker 1: Cherished Periwinkle, the eldest of the three daughters, She went
19:08
Speaker 1: with Donald Smith several times over the shoes section of
19:12
Speaker 1: the store. The mom later said that she didn't think
19:15
Speaker 1: much of it because she felt she was in a
19:17
Speaker 1: safe place being in Walmart, Rain watched Cherish, her beloved
19:24
Speaker 1: daughter with Donald Smith walk away, and heartbreakingly, she had
19:29
Speaker 1: no idea. She didn't realize this was going to be
19:32
Speaker 1: the last time that she would ever see her daughter.
19:36
Speaker 1: She went to meet Donald at the registers just as
19:38
Speaker 1: the door the store was closing too, presumably by these
19:43
Speaker 1: clothes for the children, and lo and behold, Donald doesn't
19:46
Speaker 1: show up. At that point, the red flags went up
19:50
Speaker 1: and she called nine one one and reported her daughter,
19:53
Speaker 1: Cherished as being kidnapped. It then seems Rain really had
19:57
Speaker 1: a premonition when she told the nine one an operator
20:00
Speaker 1: in her words, I hope to God he doesn't kill her.
20:04
Speaker 1: I hope to God he doesn't rape her. I don't
20:07
Speaker 1: understand why, we why he would have left right now
20:11
Speaker 1: unless he's going to rape and kill her. That's the
20:14
Speaker 1: only reason so this tour and all to trusting. Mother
20:19
Speaker 1: told the operator that the only reason she let Donald
20:22
Speaker 1: Smith do this, it's because her girls truly needed the clothing. Well,
20:26
Speaker 1: I think we all know the rest of that story.
20:28
Speaker 1: Jason Oceans Cherish Periwinkle was raped and murdered, and the
20:35
Speaker 1: killer had been really the recipient of the revolving door justice.
20:42
Speaker 1: He would go in and out for stalking children, for
20:47
Speaker 1: child pornography, for raping young girls. He had been in
20:53
Speaker 1: and out and in and out of the system. Jason,
20:58
Speaker 1: he was out. Why was he out? And with him
21:02
Speaker 1: in mind, why in the world would we even consider
21:06
Speaker 1: people walking free without posting bail or bond and going
21:10
Speaker 1: through the bond and bill process. You sign a piece
21:13
Speaker 1: of paper, you walk out, your pinky swear you'll show
21:15
Speaker 1: back up and you'll behave It doesn't work that way.
21:18
Speaker 1: This guy was out and he murdered Cherish. Weigh in, Scott,
21:23
Speaker 1: I would like to make the point about it's not
21:25
Speaker 1: only about these horrendous crimes. If we all should agree
21:29
Speaker 1: that these people shouldn't be roaming the streets at all,
21:32
Speaker 1: but Let's just take the chains at the City of
21:34
Speaker 1: Atlanta just recently made on the misdemeanor shop listing. You've
21:38
Speaker 1: got charges. You can go into a loose and sent
21:41
Speaker 1: and steal five dollars, steal a toolbox, walk out, and
21:45
Speaker 1: if you get caught. See if Atlanta won't even send
21:48
Speaker 1: a police officer to your store. And if their security
21:52
Speaker 1: takes you to the City of Atlanta and they book
21:55
Speaker 1: you in and your charge, they release you immediately, Okay,
21:59
Speaker 1: no ending of fact, no criminal history, that release you immediately.
22:03
Speaker 1: And if you fail to appear, they don't have a
22:07
Speaker 1: fugitive squad that chases people on these misdemeanor charges, so
22:11
Speaker 1: they're hoping some other agency will accidentally catch you. So
22:16
Speaker 1: you're roaming. Now, Let's assume Hall County, which is over
22:19
Speaker 1: fifty miles from the City of Atlanta, accidentally stops you.
22:23
Speaker 1: City of Atlanta won't even send two officers to pick
22:26
Speaker 1: you up over fifty miles because it's not a justifiable
22:31
Speaker 1: use of resources. It is absolutely insane that they would
22:36
Speaker 1: in fact set these policies basically encouraging people to commit
22:41
Speaker 1: because you're harming people that have businesses. You wonder why
22:45
Speaker 1: these dollar generals and places close and these poorest of
22:48
Speaker 1: neighborhoods because they're stolen to deaths and you lose those
22:53
Speaker 1: jobs and you lose that vital business in that community.
22:57
Speaker 1: We are enabling, if not encouraging, bad behavior. And that's
23:01
Speaker 1: what the criminal justice system is supposed to deter. We're
23:05
Speaker 1: supposed to say no, this is not conduct. And unfortunately
23:09
Speaker 1: the laws in our country are merely becoming suggestions. You
23:13
Speaker 1: don't see these suggestions in these other countries. You know,
23:17
Speaker 1: if you break the law, you stay in ja. In
23:21
Speaker 1: our country, we say it's no big deal. You know
23:24
Speaker 1: what's interesting. Back to Beth Chapman, star of Dog, the
23:28
Speaker 1: Mounting Hunter, President Professional Bill Agents of the US. You're
23:33
Speaker 1: gonna laugh, Beth. And this is anecdotal. This is not
23:36
Speaker 1: a statistic that I've come up with. But I recall
23:40
Speaker 1: every time when I first came as a new prosecutor
23:44
Speaker 1: and I would hear the older seasoned veterans say peeping Tom,
23:49
Speaker 1: and I would at first thought, well, peeping time's a misdemeanor.
23:52
Speaker 1: It's nothing you so you peeked in the window. Guarantee
23:55
Speaker 1: your Beth, Peeping Tom graduates and I and explain it
24:00
Speaker 1: I'm not a shrink, but they turn into a rapist
24:05
Speaker 1: or a felony while you're I mean, I can't describe it.
24:10
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying, yes, yes, you're right, Jason. What
24:14
Speaker 1: I'm saying is that's a misdemeanor. But I know the
24:19
Speaker 1: psychopathy of a peeping tom turns into a felon. I mean,
24:24
Speaker 1: like look at b t K. Dennis Rader buying torture kill.
24:28
Speaker 1: He was a dog catcher. Okay, he had little things
24:34
Speaker 1: that people thought were odd his whole life. Little did
24:37
Speaker 1: they know he's a serial murderer. And I'm not saying
24:41
Speaker 1: that people with a traffic violation because Jason Ocean is
24:43
Speaker 1: gonna get all tuned up about that lady with the
24:45
Speaker 1: traffic violation. What what I'm saying is, Beth Chapman, is
24:51
Speaker 1: that you let people walk on all of these offenses,
24:55
Speaker 1: some of them not really misdemeanors, without some kind of
24:59
Speaker 1: secure already or some kind of vetting process. We're unleashing
25:04
Speaker 1: a whole canner hurt on the on the innocent public. Beth.
25:08
Speaker 1: But Nancy, Nancy, now about you are not there? You are,
25:13
Speaker 1: Jason Oceans, hold on, well, you know, look we're we're
25:20
Speaker 1: taking away accountability. But what we're also doing is we're
25:23
Speaker 1: taking away you know, parental uh judgment. Okay, there are
25:30
Speaker 1: people in this country that will you know, people will say, um,
25:34
Speaker 1: you know, the guy is in jail because these four
25:37
Speaker 1: they can't come up with the money. It's not always
25:40
Speaker 1: true that they can't come up with the money. It's
25:42
Speaker 1: sometimes their parents don't want to come up with the money.
25:45
Speaker 1: Sometimes their family and their loved ones are sick of them,
25:48
Speaker 1: and they know how much trouble they've been in, they
25:51
Speaker 1: know how much drugs they're doing on a day to
25:53
Speaker 1: day basis. And sometimes these people are glad when they
25:57
Speaker 1: finally find out that their love one is in jail
26:01
Speaker 1: because that may be the only thing that saves them.
26:03
Speaker 1: And basically, what we're doing right now is we're not
26:06
Speaker 1: even giving them a chance to even get clean or
26:09
Speaker 1: get sober and let the family have a chance to
26:11
Speaker 1: be able to talk to him and say, hey, look
26:13
Speaker 1: we'll bond you out. But these are going to be
26:15
Speaker 1: the new rules, you know, like there's no way to
26:18
Speaker 1: even control these people. And quite honestly, and you know,
26:21
Speaker 1: no disrespect Jason, but I gotta tell you the criminal
26:24
Speaker 1: element of this country is laughing at us. They are
26:28
Speaker 1: laughing in the face of the judges. They are laughing.
26:31
Speaker 1: They cannot believe how dumb we are that we're just
26:33
Speaker 1: letting them out with no bonds. Hold on, hold on,
26:36
Speaker 1: out to bail Bondsman Scott Hall weigh in, Scott, Yes, well,
26:40
Speaker 1: let's just take again the City of Atlanta. The City
26:43
Speaker 1: of the City Council did a study not too long ago,
26:46
Speaker 1: and they said, just tell us about what's going on
26:48
Speaker 1: with recticism. They found out they need a study that
26:52
Speaker 1: a little over four hundred people accounted for over fourteen
26:58
Speaker 1: thousand crimes. Okay, now, just imagine what impact we could
27:03
Speaker 1: have had on the victims of crime if we just
27:06
Speaker 1: kept these four hundred people off the streets. You know what,
27:11
Speaker 1: here's a perfect example, Astley Willcott. I'm gonna go to
27:14
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sigowski on this Crime Stories investigative reporter Ronnie Pershing
27:20
Speaker 1: Grantham drove ten miles the wrong way on Interstate six
27:24
Speaker 1: forty while he's free on bond for allegedly killing two
27:30
Speaker 1: women drugged behind the wheel. Okay, he's out on bond
27:36
Speaker 1: for killing two women, and then he's driving ten miles
27:42
Speaker 1: the wrong way on the interstate where everybody's going sev mph.
27:49
Speaker 1: Help me understand why that's okay, Absolutely not okay in
27:53
Speaker 1: my mind. These two women, Janette Hurst only four years old,
27:59
Speaker 1: Tammy Shore fifty three, they lost their lives, and while
28:04
Speaker 1: this investigation was ongoing, he was released on bond on
28:09
Speaker 1: not to mention ThEC The officers found prescription painkillers and
28:14
Speaker 1: not just you know, anything small. It was morphine oxy
28:18
Speaker 1: code owns in ballium in his possession after that crash,
28:23
Speaker 1: and as you know, it didn't end there. Despite that,
28:26
Speaker 1: he was indicted and let out out of five hundred
28:29
Speaker 1: thousand dollar bond in April. Just this past April, he
28:34
Speaker 1: crashed his truck into two vehicles as he yet again
28:38
Speaker 1: drove the wrong way. He drove east in the westbound
28:42
Speaker 1: lanes on inner State and Tennessee for ten miles in
28:46
Speaker 1: the early morning hours. He had been traveling east in
28:50
Speaker 1: westbound lanes. He hit another vehicle and this monster didn't
28:54
Speaker 1: stop there. Ten miles later, he hit a tractor trailer.
28:59
Speaker 1: The second crash caused brandam truck to catch fire and
29:03
Speaker 1: he was rescued by a passer by. Not sure how
29:06
Speaker 1: I feel about that part and the God, Nancy, neither
29:11
Speaker 1: neither of the two drivers who he struck were injured.
29:15
Speaker 1: But why was he out? How on earth in this
29:18
Speaker 1: wonderful country that I knew as a child, is this happening?
29:22
Speaker 1: What is going on in this country? And why are
29:24
Speaker 1: these dangerous people being let out? Now? Let me ask
29:27
Speaker 1: you something to Beth Chapman, uh, star of reality TV
29:32
Speaker 1: and president Professional Bill Agents of the u S. Beth,
29:37
Speaker 1: what is the purpose in a nutshell of the bail
29:41
Speaker 1: bond system? Why do we need it? Well, the main
29:44
Speaker 1: reason for the bail bond system is to ensure the
29:46
Speaker 1: person's appearance in court. You know, this is a user
29:50
Speaker 1: funded service where if you get in trouble, will help
29:53
Speaker 1: you get out, but we have to make sure that
29:55
Speaker 1: you return back to court. And if they don't return
29:57
Speaker 1: back to court, then we go out no cost to
30:00
Speaker 1: the tax fairer, and we bring them back to the
30:03
Speaker 1: jurisdiction of the court, and if not, we pay the
30:07
Speaker 1: full amount of the bond to the court. Nancy, I'd
30:10
Speaker 1: like to make a comment. This disgust and you know,
30:13
Speaker 1: because if you go back in time, you know it
30:15
Speaker 1: was really in the intention of the founders. When you're
30:18
Speaker 1: choosed with breaking the law. Your choose your charged with
30:22
Speaker 1: in fact committing a crime. It was their intentions that
30:25
Speaker 1: you sit in jail until your court dates unless you
30:30
Speaker 1: could create some kind of guarantee, and typically it was
30:34
Speaker 1: your employer, your family member. They wanted a third party.
30:38
Speaker 1: They said, all right, there is the presumption of innocence,
30:41
Speaker 1: but there's also the rights of the society and victims.
30:45
Speaker 1: So we need to balance those two. So we're gonna
30:47
Speaker 1: release you until we wait for the judge to ride
30:50
Speaker 1: up on a horse. We in fact want some kind
30:53
Speaker 1: of guarantee that the victim will actually get justice, and
30:57
Speaker 1: we've been throwing We act like the victims have no right.
31:01
Speaker 1: So the only purpose of bail is in fact to
31:04
Speaker 1: ensure their appearance, so society at large, and most importantly
31:10
Speaker 1: the victim of that crime. And it doesn't have to
31:13
Speaker 1: be murder or rape. If you stole my billfole okay,
31:18
Speaker 1: and you broke the window of my car, if I
31:21
Speaker 1: am poor, okay, that may be my rent money for
31:24
Speaker 1: the month. It's about justice for the victim, and nobody
31:28
Speaker 1: gets justice if the accused doesn't show up. And as
31:32
Speaker 1: the example I gave you in the city of Atlanta.
31:34
Speaker 1: These cities and counties don't have the resources to rearrest
31:38
Speaker 1: people again and again and again on these minor crimes.
31:43
Speaker 1: So society has always depended on Since government can't figure out, okay,
31:48
Speaker 1: who's gonna appear and who's not gonna appear, they say, well,
31:51
Speaker 1: they need some skin in the game. And that's why
31:54
Speaker 1: you want the family to come to the table. You
31:57
Speaker 1: want a third party, like a bonding company, to put
32:00
Speaker 1: something of value, and that value differs what what might
32:05
Speaker 1: be sufficient in my case might not be sufficient in
32:08
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's case. Ashley Wilcott, I want to put another
32:11
Speaker 1: case to you. What's out of Rossford. And this is
32:15
Speaker 1: a guy that previously had no criminal record. Everybody thought
32:18
Speaker 1: it was a great guy. Okay. His name is every
32:22
Speaker 1: M Schwartz and he had been out on a hundred
32:27
Speaker 1: thousand dollar bond on rape. And you know what happens
32:34
Speaker 1: while he's out on bond on a hundred thousand dollar
32:36
Speaker 1: bond that means he only has to put up ten
32:38
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. He's arrested by Toledo police that's Saturday, charged
32:46
Speaker 1: with another rape. Now this is after ten to fifteen
32:49
Speaker 1: letters from relatives to the judge saying what a great
32:52
Speaker 1: guy he is and vouching for him. He pled no low,
32:58
Speaker 1: no contest and was found guilty of rape, a first
33:02
Speaker 1: degree felony, but at the time he was out on bond.
33:08
Speaker 1: Ashley out on bond. Why Here's what doesn't make sense
33:15
Speaker 1: to me as a judge. I have to balance the
33:18
Speaker 1: risk of the danger post to society and the likelihood
33:23
Speaker 1: the defendant is going to return to court against the
33:26
Speaker 1: safety of releasing that defendant on bond and ensuring that
33:30
Speaker 1: that defendant will come back to court. You have to
33:33
Speaker 1: look at the actual crime rape, but also is it
33:37
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor? Is it a felony? This was a first
33:40
Speaker 1: degree felony, And so the bond amount when I hear
33:44
Speaker 1: that set of facts, to me is way too low
33:47
Speaker 1: because the likelihood we all know statistically, and if you
33:50
Speaker 1: read about criminals who rape, it's not about having sex,
33:54
Speaker 1: it's about the anger and all the other things behind it.
33:56
Speaker 1: And guess what they're gonna do. They're one of the
33:58
Speaker 1: most likely to go out and commit that same crime again.
34:01
Speaker 1: So it doesn't make sense to me why that person
34:05
Speaker 1: was released on bonte And it's why courts have to
34:07
Speaker 1: have the discretion to do that balancing act to protect
34:11
Speaker 1: victims in society, which is why I don't think algorithms work.
34:15
Speaker 1: Yes with me, is renowed defense turning Jason Oceans Jason,
34:20
Speaker 1: I hope you're also sitting down because one of his
34:23
Speaker 1: rape victims was one of the people that had written
34:27
Speaker 1: the character letter he raped one of his references. According
34:31
Speaker 1: to police, we're not going to find in any of
34:33
Speaker 1: these horrible stories anything good that we're going to talk
34:37
Speaker 1: about the justice system in general, whether it's judicial discretion
34:41
Speaker 1: or recidivism. These are you know, broader strokes than just
34:45
Speaker 1: trying to narrow it down to reformation of the bail system.
34:49
Speaker 1: But for each of these horrible stories of victims uh
34:53
Speaker 1: and recidivism. Uh. You you're you're faced with you know,
34:58
Speaker 1: those arrested for time on three thousand dollars of bail
35:02
Speaker 1: and wait three years before the charges are dismissed. You
35:06
Speaker 1: know our justice, you know what You're right. I'm agreeing
35:09
Speaker 1: with you on that, Jason. That's why we don't need
35:13
Speaker 1: a blanket approach to crime, because people that really don't
35:17
Speaker 1: have an offense and it's really just a traffic to
35:19
Speaker 1: get fine. But what about the other ones that I'm
35:23
Speaker 1: not free. I'm not saying everybody's a criminal. I'm saying
35:27
Speaker 1: that this reform is no reform. And and there are
35:30
Speaker 1: judges who are bad judges. You've got different perspectives on
35:35
Speaker 1: the relationship of victims to society and the perpetrator. And
35:40
Speaker 1: and they'll low bail and they won't come back and
35:42
Speaker 1: they'll commit more acts. So that's not within bail reform.
35:46
Speaker 1: That's on you know, those judges that are either elected
35:49
Speaker 1: or appointed. But I don't think there's anything wrong with
35:52
Speaker 1: a risk assessment score that considers a person's flight because
35:56
Speaker 1: the judge said and danger to the community and her assessment, Uh,
36:00
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that. And approaching misdemeanors, you don't
36:03
Speaker 1: need for a first time offensive driving without a license,
36:08
Speaker 1: notwithstanding best point that it's a crime. Everything is a crime,
36:12
Speaker 1: from a b misdemeanor to a felony. Well, I'm telling you,
36:15
Speaker 1: I'm telling you everything is not a crime. Minding your
36:19
Speaker 1: own business and working and taking care of your family
36:22
Speaker 1: is not a crime. Attacking other people, murdering, raping, peeping
36:27
Speaker 1: tom the works, those are crime. Everything is not a crime.
36:30
Speaker 1: And frankly, Jason notions to side on the to air
36:33
Speaker 1: on the side of caution. I would be more draconian,
36:37
Speaker 1: more strict to protect innocent victims than this blanket. Open
36:42
Speaker 1: the doors and let everybody walk free. But that's not
36:45
Speaker 1: the end of it, Best Chapman, right now, a problem
36:49
Speaker 1: with Google. What's happening? Best? Well, Google just recently um
36:54
Speaker 1: announced that they will no longer take Google ads from
36:57
Speaker 1: our profession from the bail industry, claiming that we are
37:02
Speaker 1: you know, basic predators on the of the minorities and
37:09
Speaker 1: and the challenged folks, you know, and they are basically
37:14
Speaker 1: saying that they will no longer allow us to run
37:17
Speaker 1: our advertising on Google. And then Facebook out came out
37:21
Speaker 1: and and concurred with that, you know. So basically now
37:25
Speaker 1: we're talking about, you know, restricting a legal, legitimate, uh,
37:30
Speaker 1: law abiding mom and pop operations who have been in
37:34
Speaker 1: existence since the founding of this country, and now they're
37:38
Speaker 1: being told that they can't advertise because you know, Google
37:41
Speaker 1: doesn't agree that people should be incarcerated. But you know,
37:45
Speaker 1: the unfortunate thing about that is it it's not the
37:47
Speaker 1: bail agents who are incarcerating them. It's not the bail
37:49
Speaker 1: agents who are setting bail. We don't use their funded service.
37:54
Speaker 1: That is a vital, important service. And we've been here
37:56
Speaker 1: and existence for more than two hundred years. You know,
38:00
Speaker 1: the court sets the bond, the d a s set
38:03
Speaker 1: the pace for the case. We just assure and guarantee
38:07
Speaker 1: their appearance. That's that's the way it is. You know,
38:09
Speaker 1: Facebook came out yesterday and said that you know that
38:12
Speaker 1: her predatorial um practices has no place on Facebook. Well,
38:17
Speaker 1: I think that you can go to Facebook and you
38:19
Speaker 1: can find a lot of predatorial businesses being advertised there
38:24
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis, you know. And I
38:26
Speaker 1: feel that you know, Google and uh Google Ads and
38:30
Speaker 1: Facebook have become too big, too powerful. They control too
38:33
Speaker 1: much of the market share, and it's easy for them
38:36
Speaker 1: to just start bullying people by saying, you know, we're
38:39
Speaker 1: not gonna let you advertise your anymore because we don't
38:41
Speaker 1: like you, we don't like what you do. Nancy. It's
38:44
Speaker 1: a very slippery slope when you've got someone who's large
38:47
Speaker 1: as Google trying to make these policy decisions. Assume what
38:52
Speaker 1: they're alleging is that the bonding community, which is in
38:55
Speaker 1: fact helping these poor people get out of jail or
38:59
Speaker 1: some how taking advantage or are they gonna stop allowing
39:03
Speaker 1: the lottery to advertise. Are they gonna stop allowing criminal
39:08
Speaker 1: defense attorneys who in fact take advantage in their mind
39:12
Speaker 1: because they charge a fee. I mean, anybody that makes
39:16
Speaker 1: money the critical what about the banks? The bank charge
39:19
Speaker 1: you thirty and forty dollars for a five dollar bad
39:21
Speaker 1: check that bounces, okay, is that usury? I mean it's
39:26
Speaker 1: a very slippery slope that they're going down, and they're
39:28
Speaker 1: in fact preventing these people that need us the most
39:33
Speaker 1: from obtaining their liberty because without companies willing to stand
39:39
Speaker 1: in there instead. Basically, you know many cases if you've
39:43
Speaker 1: got someone and we keep talking about these very large bonds.
39:46
Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of the day, I think
39:48
Speaker 1: our average bond in George is about fifteen hundred dollars,
39:52
Speaker 1: so the fee is a hundred and fifty dollars so
39:54
Speaker 1: and and people should be up in arms when you
39:58
Speaker 1: see like that in Bibb County, Georgia, where you had
40:02
Speaker 1: a woman who was pregnant delivering a pizza, okay, to
40:06
Speaker 1: a door. He got beat up by the people that
40:08
Speaker 1: he delivered the pizza too, and they impact released her
40:12
Speaker 1: on like a sevent d dollar bond. I mean that
40:14
Speaker 1: he is insane. And you know, for Google to basically
40:18
Speaker 1: to be influenced by these liberal groups that have no
40:21
Speaker 1: intention of focusing on the acception, Well what what what
40:26
Speaker 1: it concerns me about, guys? And I'm gonna throw this
40:29
Speaker 1: to Jason Oceans who have disagreed so far. Jason Oceans
40:32
Speaker 1: and Ashley woke up with me. Ashtley juvenal judge Jason
40:37
Speaker 1: defense lawyer. Jason an issue about not being able to
40:41
Speaker 1: advertise it on Google or Facebook. And I know they
40:46
Speaker 1: believe they have their reasons, but here's the deal. Preventing
40:51
Speaker 1: advertising does not reduce the need to make a bond. Okay,
40:56
Speaker 1: it's just gonna make it harder to find a lender.
40:59
Speaker 1: I mean, bail bonding is legal in our country, and
41:03
Speaker 1: even if reforms go through, the so called reforms that
41:07
Speaker 1: I oppose, even if they go through, they're still going
41:11
Speaker 1: to be bail bonding all more serious crimes, not peeping
41:15
Speaker 1: tom or not, you know, steal in a car maybe,
41:18
Speaker 1: but other crimes. You still got to make a bond,
41:20
Speaker 1: or you gotta try to make a bond. Taking it
41:23
Speaker 1: off Google or Facebook. That makes people that do want
41:28
Speaker 1: to make a bond, it's gonna be impossible for they
41:30
Speaker 1: can't find a bondsman because they can't get access to
41:33
Speaker 1: do it. Jason, No, I I don't necessarily disagree with that.
41:36
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how the advance will affect
41:39
Speaker 1: bail bond Agencies bott Online, but I think the website
41:42
Speaker 1: will just have to still come up on. I'm not
41:44
Speaker 1: talking about Bill Bondsman just because I've got to well
41:47
Speaker 1: known Bill bons And I'm talking about people, your clients
41:51
Speaker 1: that are trying to make a bond. Hey, for me,
41:54
Speaker 1: fine lock the door, keep them all in there until
41:56
Speaker 1: they plead guilty or they go to trial. Okay, I'm
41:59
Speaker 1: okay with that. But if you're gonna make a bond,
42:04
Speaker 1: the Yellow Pages, the what the What, people go to Google,
42:11
Speaker 1: and you take this down, how are your people gonna
42:14
Speaker 1: get a bond? Jason. They can't even google it to
42:17
Speaker 1: the time bail Bondsman. Here in New York City, in
42:20
Speaker 1: the Tri State area, they're just ride all over around
42:23
Speaker 1: the court. So I don't know that you have to
42:26
Speaker 1: go seeking and looking. They're just right there. So self
42:29
Speaker 1: advertising across the street. Well, the family that makes the bond,
42:33
Speaker 1: Grandma that makes the bond Who's at home and she's
42:38
Speaker 1: telling her, a fifteen year old granddaughter, Hey, yeah, what
42:40
Speaker 1: what's a bond company? That girl is going to go
42:44
Speaker 1: on her iPhones like my ten year old do, and
42:49
Speaker 1: they're gonna look it up on Google, just like I do. Mananthy,
42:52
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not against advertising. I'm not against bail bonds. Uh.
42:56
Speaker 1: When we're gonna talk about bail reformed, there's a lot
42:59
Speaker 1: more that in your sex this uh, and it's comprehensive.
43:02
Speaker 1: So you know, while you're taking the stories of evil
43:06
Speaker 1: that happen in recidivism and those who are you know,
43:09
Speaker 1: jumping jumping bad people that are out on bond that
43:12
Speaker 1: commit violent crimes, no one, no one is supporting that
43:15
Speaker 1: aspect of our criminal justice system. And you well know,
43:18
Speaker 1: as a veteran prosecutor, the pluses and minuses of our system.
43:23
Speaker 1: So if we're going to do bail reform, we've got
43:25
Speaker 1: to do it comprehensively. Give the power back. I'm all
43:31
Speaker 1: about bill reform. I'm okay bill with bill reform, but
43:34
Speaker 1: not this bill reform. Okay, I don't like what they're
43:37
Speaker 1: doing right here. But the other thing about not being
43:41
Speaker 1: allowed to advertise is is crazy asthlet know. The problem
43:46
Speaker 1: with that is here, Google is or any other company
43:49
Speaker 1: like that, Facebook, whoever it is that says you can't
43:52
Speaker 1: advertise this service because we fundamentally disagree, and we're on
43:56
Speaker 1: board with reform that has to happen before is wrap.
44:00
Speaker 1: It is using its power as a monopoly. It's not
44:03
Speaker 1: truly a monopoly. But look at the number of users
44:05
Speaker 1: right and everybody googles everything to find out I can use.
44:09
Speaker 1: They are doing that in order to lobby. It's what
44:13
Speaker 1: their lobbyists should be doing at the capitol, which is
44:15
Speaker 1: why I go back to my first statement, which listen,
44:18
Speaker 1: if you want to change any type of legislation has
44:21
Speaker 1: got to be deliberate and well thought out in order
44:24
Speaker 1: to ensure it's best for everyone's rights involved, including society,
44:29
Speaker 1: including victims. And there's another thing to you, Beth Chapman.
44:34
Speaker 1: Research shows that suspects released on commercial bail in other words,
44:39
Speaker 1: somebody be at them or their grandma or their mom
44:42
Speaker 1: or dad wife, people that put up money or how
44:47
Speaker 1: spawned bail are more much more likely to show up
44:50
Speaker 1: for trial than their counterparts that are released in other ways.
44:56
Speaker 1: Not only that, bounty hunters are more likely than police
45:00
Speaker 1: to capture those people who jump bail. That's important. Why
45:05
Speaker 1: is that Because most fugitive squads don't exist anymore. Cops
45:09
Speaker 1: are just trying to catch the new criminals. We don't
45:11
Speaker 1: have time to track down the ones that jump bond.
45:14
Speaker 1: That's where you come in. You know, definitely, when you
45:17
Speaker 1: have some skin in the game and you have a
45:20
Speaker 1: steak in what's going on in in your person's court case,
45:24
Speaker 1: you know, you are far more likely to get someone
45:26
Speaker 1: who's going to do what they're supposed to do. You know,
45:29
Speaker 1: there's a there's thousands of times that I've had mercy
45:32
Speaker 1: on somebody who didn't have a co signer, who didn't
45:35
Speaker 1: have the collateral to get out of jail, but we
45:38
Speaker 1: went ahead and just on their word when ahead and
45:40
Speaker 1: let him out. I gotta tell you fifty of the
45:43
Speaker 1: time they let me down because when there's no stake
45:46
Speaker 1: in the game, when there's nobody on the hook for them,
45:49
Speaker 1: they just don't go. They don't come to court. There's
45:52
Speaker 1: no repercussion, there's no detorrent. They have no reason to
45:56
Speaker 1: basically show up. You know, if they're poor, they're not
45:59
Speaker 1: going to show anyway because they can't afford to find
46:01
Speaker 1: that the court's going to give them. You know, they're
46:04
Speaker 1: better off to stay on the run for as long
46:06
Speaker 1: as they can. I mean, you know, we're really doing
46:08
Speaker 1: damage to our society. And I did want to just
46:12
Speaker 1: touch on the on the risk assessment tool that's that's
46:15
Speaker 1: been kicked around here. I don't agree with the risk
46:18
Speaker 1: assessment tool because of the way the risk assessment tool
46:21
Speaker 1: has been programmed and has been put out there. The
46:25
Speaker 1: people who are for this, the left, who are wanting
46:29
Speaker 1: us to um you know, go with the hugg A
46:32
Speaker 1: thug program. They do not want you to be able
46:35
Speaker 1: to um asked. They don't want you to be able
46:39
Speaker 1: to consider the current charge that they're being charged with,
46:43
Speaker 1: and they don't want you to be able to look
46:45
Speaker 1: at any of their past criminal history. Now you cannot
46:50
Speaker 1: judge a person or you know, as as the judges
46:53
Speaker 1: on the phone with us has said, you know, the
46:55
Speaker 1: discretion comes from knowing how many times the person has
46:59
Speaker 1: been arrested, how many times you've seen that person back
47:02
Speaker 1: in your courtroom, and how many times they actually did
47:05
Speaker 1: what you told them to do when you sentenced them
47:06
Speaker 1: the first However, many times. That's why the judge's discretion
47:10
Speaker 1: is so important. You cannot replace the criminal justice system,
47:16
Speaker 1: uh discretion with a button that is not gonna work.
47:21
Speaker 1: These are this is criminal behavior. This is people who
47:25
Speaker 1: you know, do drugs and have altering and changing their mindset.
47:31
Speaker 1: They change their name, they change their number, they change
47:35
Speaker 1: two numbers in their social Security car, their social Security number,
47:39
Speaker 1: and they think they've gotten away with something. I mean,
47:41
Speaker 1: you know, it has taken us years. My husband is
47:44
Speaker 1: almost forty years in the business and I'm just coming
47:46
Speaker 1: over thirty. This is years and years and years of
47:50
Speaker 1: profiling the criminal element that basically tells us who we
47:54
Speaker 1: can and who we cannot get out of jail. Now
47:57
Speaker 1: handing this over to somebody with a question questionnaire that
48:02
Speaker 1: does not include have you ever been convicted before in
48:06
Speaker 1: the past? Have you ever failed to appear in the past?
48:09
Speaker 1: You know, what's the severity of the crime that you're
48:11
Speaker 1: being charged with? Now? It is ludicrous to think that
48:15
Speaker 1: that algorithm, that risk assessment tool is going to be
48:19
Speaker 1: able to replace you know, the human touch, the human nature,
48:24
Speaker 1: the people that are able to profile criminals for a
48:26
Speaker 1: living and to be able to base their decision on
48:28
Speaker 1: whether they one will reoffend, two will come back, or
48:32
Speaker 1: three will harm someone. And those are the main questions
48:36
Speaker 1: that need to be being asked. The risk assessment tool
48:39
Speaker 1: is a joke. Now, if they come back with something better,
48:42
Speaker 1: or they can make it better, then we would be
48:44
Speaker 1: in a different place. But we're not. So since we're not,
48:48
Speaker 1: we have to dis vigorously because otherwise all they're doing
48:52
Speaker 1: is painting everybody with the same broad strokes, and everybody
48:55
Speaker 1: should be released on minor crimes. You just can't do that.
49:00
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense. Nancy, can I make a
49:02
Speaker 1: coment here? Sure? And you know, Harrod, we they used
49:06
Speaker 1: to talk about, you know, who shows up who doesn't
49:09
Speaker 1: show up? Now, well, now we've got the facts. There
49:12
Speaker 1: was this case in Harris County, Texas, and they've been
49:15
Speaker 1: under an injunction. And now the proponents of all of
49:19
Speaker 1: these reforms that say there's absolutely no difference in the
49:23
Speaker 1: appearance rate and there should be no difference in the
49:26
Speaker 1: impacts to the victims of crime have been shown horribly wrong.
49:31
Speaker 1: A five percent failure to appear rate when people have
49:35
Speaker 1: skin in the game, and a fifty percent failure to
49:40
Speaker 1: appear rate. These are not me, Pully. This has been
49:43
Speaker 1: now admitted into the record, and that's why the judges,
49:46
Speaker 1: not the Burnsman, the judges in Harris County are fighting
49:50
Speaker 1: this and are in fact fighting for this injunction. They're saying,
49:54
Speaker 1: you're making a laughing stock of the entire criminal justice system.
49:58
Speaker 1: We got fifty of the that in fact are being
50:02
Speaker 1: denied justice, and then you're placing the burden right back
50:07
Speaker 1: on the tax paying country to many of these law
50:10
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies don't have the resources to do what they
50:13
Speaker 1: currently do, much less chase down all of these misdemeanor offenders.
50:19
Speaker 1: They're failing to appear. So what do you do? You
50:22
Speaker 1: allow these people to roam and commit more clients. It
50:26
Speaker 1: is absolutely insanity and the facts you're in well right now,
50:31
Speaker 1: I think we all want what is best for the
50:34
Speaker 1: system and what is best for innocent victims. Best Chapman,
50:38
Speaker 1: reality star President of Professional Bill Agents of the US,
50:42
Speaker 1: Jason Ocean's Ashley Willcott, Jennifer Skalski, and Scott Hall. Thank you,
50:48
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off