Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Daniel Degner: Biblical Issues Of Life, Marriage, Church And State

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Daniel Degner: Biblical Issues Of Life, Marriage, Church And State · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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Hey, friends, thank you so much for tuning in.
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God bless you.
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We appreciate you praying for the podcast and for all the technical issues that we have.
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It's been going great thanks to God, of course, and your prayers, and you're sharing, sharing
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the podcast.
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It's getting out there.
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So today, we're going to not exactly keep it local because we are fans of Wisconsin
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Family Council and Wisconsin Family Action.
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They do great work as a lot of states have these organizations that really help expose what's
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going on in their government, state governments, and especially the battles for life in the
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womb and family, protecting marriage, family.
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So we're blessed to have Daniel Degner with us today, and he's in studio.
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So he's just at Lambo Field and he was in the area, he was able to come by and do a podcast.
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So Daniel, welcome to World View Matters.
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Thanks for having me, David.
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Thanks for what you're doing to really promote these freedom issues here in our country.
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Exactly, especially religious freedom.
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So Daniel, tell us about your position.
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Your relatively new position with Wisconsin Family Action and that you started off with
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Wisconsin Family Council, correct?
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Yes.
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So Wisconsin Family Action, Wisconsin Family Council were sister organizations, and so
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my previous roles, I was our church and master network director, so I connected pastors,
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two elected officials to advance God's kind of administer to them as a person, as a shepherd,
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and as a partner.
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We want elected officials to see who they are in Christ, but also to see the church as
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a primary resource.
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I currently serve as the president of Wisconsin Family Action and Wisconsin Family Council.
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Now I took that role last June.
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I became the interim and then in September, I'm filled into more of a long term role.
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And as our organization, our mission is to advance Judeo Christian values and principles
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that strengthen, preserve and promote marriage, family, life, and religious liberty in the
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better state.
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Well, you're coming up on your one year anniversary, huh?
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Isn't that great?
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Yeah, it's been an exciting year, but a lot.
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And I'm sure that your viewers are aware of Jolaine Appling, our president emeritus,
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and giant shoes to fill.
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Yes, exactly.
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And she worked and worked and worked, and that's just a challenge right there, keeping
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up with just all the time she put in and just some amazing progress, though, and effectiveness
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in this state.
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And also, you know, not every state has a family council.
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Wisconsin is blessed to have one, I think, Illinois.
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But not every state does.
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So we are really blessed to have you guys right here and the work that you do.
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Yeah, thank you.
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So let's give the website, it's wifamilyaction.org, wifamilyaction.org, and the Wisconsin Family
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Council website is WI FamilyCouncil.org, and that's council, not like counseling, but
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council as in like a council of L.C.
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O.N.
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C.I.L.
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C.O.N.
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C.I.L.
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All right.
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So a lot of issues to talk about.
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First of all, one of them that you sent me, there's an amendment in Wisconsin to prohibit
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government closure of places of worship during emergencies.
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It's an amendment, 2026, it says on here, but friends, remember what happened during
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COVID?
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Do you remember how the government told the churches to shut down, shut your doors closed,
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you can't have, you can't worship, right?
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So is that part of the reason they're trying to get this passed?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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We saw in 2020 that are really radical liberal governor, Tony Evers, but he wanted to, he
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wanted to shut churches down and not allow us to practice our religious liberty and even
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just a town southward recording right now in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, they even tried to do
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a drive-in church service and the police were called and they came and said, wait a second,
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nope, you can't do this and thankfully through our work and some other of our legal friends,
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we were able at least to allow and get a letter from the governor to allow them to do
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these driving services, but really, that should never have been needed in the first place
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and we need to make sure in Wisconsin, not just for now, but for the future of our entire
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history that we protect churches that they will never be shut down again.
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Yeah, this is, you know, I was going to say it's a federal issue, but it's also the
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states have to deal with this because it's going to be state by state because we saw
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how a blue state governor is in particular and unfortunately at that time we were a blue
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state.
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Can't say we're a red state now exactly, but, you know, the election did swing that way
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last November.
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So there are so many other cases, just one of them I want to mention, I just got a news
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letter from the Wisconsin family action.
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You guys can sign up for the newsletter on the website.
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There is a Wisconsin congressman, his name is Glenn Grossman.
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He's supporting marriage, and I'm thinking, okay, of course we support, we, if you're
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Republican, generally you support marriage, but it says student loan marriage penalty
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elimination act.
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That's what we're talking about.
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It's not just marriage, but it's student loan marriage penalty elimination act and it
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would remove one of many anti-marriage provisions of current federal law and regulation by amending
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the tax code to ensure student loan interest is a tax deductible item for both husbands
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and wives.
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Tell us anything else about this?
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Yeah, so basically what Congressman Grossman is trying to do here at this bill is, and
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this happens a lot.
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The state level as well as the federal level is, we'll have it where we allow for singles
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that are filing taxes, get a tax benefit, but then we don't have that necessarily, that
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tax benefit for married couples, and really we appreciate what the Congressman is trying
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to do, and we're also encouraging state legislators to get rid of some of our marriage penalty
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tax.
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I'm credit issues here in Wisconsin to make sure that we're incentivizing marriage, especially
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we look at all of our population issues, we look at our marriage and families around
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the state.
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We really need to do everything we possibly can to make sure our tax structures really incentivize
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family as well as marriage.
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Oh my goodness, there should not be marriage penalties or taxes, yeah, we need to bless
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families.
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By the way, this proposal has been endorsed by Family Research Council, and so that's
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another good thing.
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So one other thing that came up here, and we're going to be jumping around a lot, in
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fact let me go back to my notes here.
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Let's talk about what the Wisconsin State Supreme Court will be ruling on, and that
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would be the pre-row abortion ban, and that's before June 30, tell us about that.
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Yeah, so in Wisconsin, we have statute 940-04, and you may hear in the media, we'll talk
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about Wisconsin has this 1849 abortion ban, and I think that's really foolish when we
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say those things, because we don't talk about, you know, in Wisconsin there's an 1849
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murder ban.
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Or in Wisconsin there's an 1849 ban against theft, while we just say, well it's the law
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because the legislature passed it, and since 1849 the legislature hasn't seen a need
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to overturn that law, and so basically what the 940-04 statute says is it says that abortion
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is not legal except for in the case of the life of the mother, where two different doctors
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have to sign off, and we're very fortunate, we praise God that after the dobs decision
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overturned Ro, and brought abortion back to the states, that was the law in Wisconsin,
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we were able to be able to protect the unborn, save the unborn, and there was a report that
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found that many babies were born in Wisconsin as a result, and they're protected from being
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slaughtered in the womb.
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So let me just do this real quick, let me flip over to an article, and I want to quote,
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this is over at the Federalist, it says every pro-life law, listen friends, because the left
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lies about this, Democrats lie about this, every pro-life law without exception contains
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provisions that allow for emergency medical intervention to save a mother's life.
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I said that slowly, so you can understand, this is true, over at the Federalist, it's
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an article called Don't Blame pro-lifers for medical malpractice or risky abortion drugs.
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Can you talk to us a little bit more about this, because when you said that you're going
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okay, yeah, there's a provision to save the mother's life of course, of course, but
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every pro-life law has that provision, right?
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Yeah, everyone does, and what I would even argue beyond that, and what we argue as an organization
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is there's really never a need medically to save the life of a mother by aborting a child.
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But what we would say is that it's terrible, it's tragic, it's sad when someone loses
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a child naturally through a miscarriage or an ectopic pregnancy or a stillbirth of those
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sort of things, but we do everything we can to make sure we're not intentionally killing
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that child, and I'll just use my own stories and examples.
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Yes, please share that.
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So, when 9404 was in effect, remember, abortion is illegal, and basically every circumstance
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except that save the life of the mother with two doctors signing off.
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My wife had an ectopic pregnancy, and so if you were watching the TV ads in Wisconsin
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over the last year or so with these elections, they would say, oh, these conservative Republicans
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are trying to murder women that are having miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies.
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But it's the furthest from the truth when my wife and it was unfortunate.
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We are very sad that we lost our child, we call that baby our child because we know at
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the moment of conception, God uniquely created that child.
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But with the baby dying through ectopic pregnancy and the fallopian tubes, that baby had
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already passed away, and so it was okay because that baby had already passed away.
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Something with the misguards to remove that child because the child is no longer living.
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And we would argue in a circumstance where the baby is still alive and needs to be removed
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for medical reasons, like a C-section of those sorts of things.
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We can always have a C-section to try to save the baby, and if the baby passes away, it's
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unfortunate, it's terrible, but it's God allowing the baby to pass away naturally instead
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of us actively intervening ourselves to kill the child.
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My goodness, we had Seth Gruber on the podcast recently and, man, I'll tell you, he comes
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with both barrels loaded.
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And we talked about that.
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We talked about some of these lies that the media will put out there and, or slight.
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I don't even want to say half truth, but the talking points of the left when it comes
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to using them as a battering ram against the pro-life community or those of us who believe
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that life begins at conception.
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And every pregnancy is a growing, developing human life in a mother's womb.
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And yet so many states, Daniel, have laws that will legalize, no, not God's law, but
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they will legalize abortion up until, throughout nine months, throughout the ninth month.
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And so we're struggling with the fact that we've been playing political ping pong.
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I just want to get your response to this and share any insights that you'd like.
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A lot of us are frustrated with the back and forth with the pro-life community, with
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legislation and everything like that, with what Republicans campaign on, and then they
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say they're going to do, they get into the Washington, they don't follow through, right?
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So we're just compromising if we don't push to end abortion and save every baby.
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Yeah.
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And how I would argue it too, and I'm a huge packer fan, owner, seasoned ticket holders,
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just at Lambo.
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And every state's different right now, post-dobs.
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And so I would try to figure out where are we on the field.
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And so like in Wisconsin, under 9404, I'd say we're at the opponent's one yard line where
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about to square touch, and we have so much ground that we have.
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And then there's other states like you mentioned that they might be at their own one yard line
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because abortion is legal through the moment of birth and they're allowing for even taxpayer
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fronted abortion in some of those states.
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And really what we need to be focused on is how do we move the ball forward, closer to
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the end zone, closer towards the touch down in every state that's going to look different
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and just a real world example here in Wisconsin, the last legislative session, there was an argument
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to allow for abortion through 14 weeks of pregnancy.
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So through three and a half months of that baby being developed, and our argument organization
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was we have the ball at the one yard line.
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Why would we retreat all the way back to the 50 yard line?
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We need to continue to move forward and not backwards.
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And so we oppose that.
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But if the Supreme Court, like we're expecting by June 30th, we'll probably find, and they'll
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probably create some sort of a loophole to get rid of our 9404 statue that protects
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many of the unborn.
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And they'll come back and say that, oh, well, there's a 9404 is unconstitutional.
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It'll make something up.
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And they'll probably end up having abortion legal around the 20 week mark.
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Well, if that's the case, our goal as an organization is to do the best we can to move
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the ball forward and save as many lives at that point.
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So meanwhile, you're talking about, okay, we may be at the one yard line here.
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Our radical Democrat governor, Tony Evers, if anything would come across his desk, he's
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not going to sign it if it's a measure protecting life.
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In fact, you sent me this, Daniel, Democrats in Wisconsin introduced a bill.
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Now here's the opposition to legalize abortion through all nine months of pregnancy there.
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We go.
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And you say every Democrat signed on as a co-sponsor, except for one.
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So there's one that's less radical and less demonic than all the others.
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But so there's this battle in Wisconsin.
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What else would you like to share about that?
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Well, and I think this should be a warning cry to any of the viewers here in Wisconsin.
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But even nationally, you should be looking at what's happening now in your state.
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So I speak at events all over Wisconsin.
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And I'll have people come up to me and say, Dan, isn't it so great that President Trump's
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in office?
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Because now we have the proleth fish you solved.
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Or now we don't have to worry about the people, the generally say that.
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Oh, every time I speak at an event, someone comes up to me and says that.
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And I look at it and I'm like, yes, I'm glad that President Trump's in office.
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I'm glad that we have these policies.
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But they only last for four years at a time unless we ratify them in our state law.
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And so it's so important for us to make a difference.
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But especially in Wisconsin, this is what's scary is right now, the state Senate has an
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18 Republican majority to 15 Democrat minority.
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But it is very likely that that legislature in the Senate will flip in the next election
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cycle.
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But especially the assemblies up for grabs you.
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So what really Democrats are highlighting here is that if they take over the chamber,
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they're going to try to ratify through state law to have abortion through all nine
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months of pregnancy.
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That's right.
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And let's be honest, most Democrats, that's a platform, that's on their platform in most
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states would be pushing or are pushing for the same thing if they didn't make that successful
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already.
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Anyway, we got to move on, we got to take a brief pause.
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We are talking about the very important issue, friends of life in the womb.
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There's so many other family related issues.
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I think before the podcast, I don't remember who we were talking to about this.
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But talk about how God set up his creative order, how it starts with God is the creator
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of all things creation, then life, then marriage, then family and civil government.
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But anyway, when we come back from our brief break here, we're talking about a study that
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showed chemical abortions, which the media barely tells the truth about, chemical abortions
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now account for two thirds of the abortions.
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And they are 22 times more likely to cause sepsis, hemorrhaging and other serious adverse
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effects than the FDA label suggests.
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And there's many more studies coming out on this, we'll break back on World View Matters.
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our guest today, before we talk about this with the chemical abortions, you mentioned
17:34
something about the guy, the Democrats kicked him out for wanting to protect women, explain
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what happened.
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So basically, again, there's only one Democrat who didn't sign on this very radical abortion
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through all nine months bill.
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Only one.
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And so.
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Trouble maker.
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Yeah, so his background too, so he's a bivocational pastor in the city, Milwaukee.
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And so earlier in the session, there was a vote to protect women's sports, to say at
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the most basic essence, biological men do not belong in sports with biological females.
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And so he voted the way that any really sane person would vote and said, yeah, absolutely,
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we should not allow for biological men and women's sports.
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And then right after that, of course, the Democrats called for an immediate recess for
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him.
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They met with him in a back room, and he was sent home for the rest of the day.
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And so when we hear on the how the right is intolerant and the right is unwilling to be
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able to hear other views and opinions, look at what Democrats are actually doing, saying,
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no, unless you support this radical gender ideology, unless you support abortion through
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nine months, we won't even allow you to have a voice and a vote to represent the people
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that elected you.
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Wow.
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It's just not surprising.
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He didn't tow the party line, right?
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He didn't play in the sandbox, well, by the way, this is off topic slightly, churches
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are very important, but churches have to uphold biblical values, meaning they've got to know
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what the Bible teaches.
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They've got to be preaching it from the pulpit.
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They've got to not only preach the gospel, but stand against evil.
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If you're a like this guy, if you're a Democrat pastor, to me, that's an oxymoron.
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It doesn't make sense.
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The Democrat platform is demonic.
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It goes against what the Bible teaches.
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So I don't understand that.
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It's to me that's there's a disconnect there.
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You want to speak to that before we move on, you're looking like, hmm, that's interesting.
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Yeah.
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Well, and those are the sort of things that I would have issues with myself.
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We have a really good relationship with many legislators in Wisconsin.
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There was a legislator who had a ministry background that he's no longer in the legislature,
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but he once told me, so Dan, I'm pro-life, but I have to vote pro-choice, I have to
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vote for abortion, because if I don't, the Democrats will kick me out of my caucus,
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and they'll primary me.
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And again, you and I, we would say, well, that's still sin.
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It's still sin to vote for things that promote evil, but somehow they're able to justify
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it, but that would be my argument with them is you still cannot sin in violate God's laws
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and commands.
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Yeah.
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There's scriptures about the approving of evil.
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And there's another issue that, you know, we don't want to get into right now, but about
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just remaining silent in the face of evil, famous Dietrich Ponhofer, quote, right, silence
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in the face of evil is itself evil.
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Not to speak is to speak.
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Not to act is to act.
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He said, God will not hold us guiltless if we do not speak up and protect the unborn.
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Those are that are vulnerable.
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So back to this chemical abortions issue and all the, not all, a lot of the studies that
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are coming out that we're hearing about through a few conservative outlets, not the mainstream
20:39
media, not the so-called journalists and the big networks.
20:43
They're not talking about this how chemical abortions are causing sepsis, hemorrhaging,
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other adverse effects, but the FDA label, it claims it's safe.
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Can you help us break this down and understand?
20:57
Yeah.
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And I'll give just a few examples here, but I met with a person who developed this study
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Ryan Anderson and one of the things that really came out of this is the FDA claims that just
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a half percent of people that have women that will take these abortion drugs will have
21:11
these severe adverse effects and really it's something that I've always struggled to believe.
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I used to serve on the board of directors of a pregnancy help center here in Wisconsin
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and our medical director would tell me she said, Dan, there's no way this is true because
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there's a plant parenthood in a community near us that provides these chemical abortions.
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We're having women come in all the time with these serious adverse medical effects.
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When this study came out, what it did is it took healthcare insurance data and it was
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de-identified so they don't know who the women are, but it found that over 870,000 women
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that have received the chemical abortion pill that of those 11% of them ended up going
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to the hospital to the emergency room for issues like sepsis, hemorrhaging, these very serious
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adverse effects.
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The question really comes in is why would the FDA come in and say, oh, you only have
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a half percent chance of having an issue.
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So women are thinking, oh, this is fine, this is safe, but in actuality, it was 22 times
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worse than what they were advertising and all these women are having these issues.
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One of the things we talked about earlier with campaigning is we see campaigns with one
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of the big arguments was, oh, look, pro-life laws kill women.
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Well, no, a lot of times it's the chemical abortions, these chemical abortions that are happening.
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They're actually causing women to have sepsis, hemorrhaging, those sort of things.
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And it's when they don't release to their doctor, they don't tell their doctor what they
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actually took, that's what causes the medical issues.
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And it's unfortunate, it's sad, but really, if these women were not getting these abortions,
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we wouldn't have these medical issues they have.
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You mentioned, I think before we started the podcast today about that situation about
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the woman in Georgia who the media played on the lie that pro-life laws killed her or
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something.
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Can you explain slowly and so people can understand really what happened because I remember
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that.
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So go ahead.
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Yeah.
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And I forget the exact publication.
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There was a publication that won like a Pulitzer Prize.
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They wanted a award for journalism for this, but basically what they summarized and what
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they found was that because this woman or at least what they argued is this woman was
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killed because a pro-life law didn't allow for abortions.
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And she had this unfortunate pregnancy issue where she died because the doctor wouldn't take
23:15
care of her.
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Well, what actually came out later on with the true stories, she went to another state
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to get a chemical abortion.
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When she had this chemical abortion, she didn't tell anyone about it.
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And so she ended up in the ER with sepsis hemorrhaging, those sort of issues.
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And she didn't tell the doctors that she had taken the chemical abortion pills.
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She just told them that, oh, I'm not feeling well.
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And so instead of the doctors being able to actually help her deal with the hemorrhaging
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and sepsis or whatever she had in that specific case because of the chemical abortion, they
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weren't able to treat her properly and she died as a result.
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So it wasn't the pro-life law that killed her, it was the chemical abortion is what killed
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her.
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That's right.
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And her, for whatever reason, being either embarrassed or didn't want to be honest with
23:57
the doctors, that's tragic.
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And there's a lot of situations like that I'm sure that we don't hear about.
24:03
But let's go to some good news here.
24:04
We've got a few minutes left, Dan, the establishment of the Religious Liberty Commission.
24:11
This is the White House website, WhiteHouse.gov, as of this month May, 2025, by the authority vested
24:18
in me as president, by the Constitution of the Laws of the United States of America,
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it is hereby ordered.
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Section 1, Purpose and Policy, it shall be the policy of these executive branch to vigorously
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enforce the historic and robust protections for religious liberty enshrined in federal law.
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The founders envisioned a nation in which religious voices and views are integral to a vibrant
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public square and human flourishing and it goes on and on.
24:45
And then it kind of goes along with the Attorney General, Pam Bondy, launched the eradicating
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anti-Christian bias task force.
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This was ordered by the Trump administration.
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So there's some good things to happen, comment on either one, Dan.
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Yeah, I would say again, this is a really good sign that during the Biden administration
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we saw time and time again that they would really go after Christians and go after people
25:08
that were practicing their faith and good conscience, they weren't doing anything that was
25:12
violating the law.
25:13
They just were having a different speech than what the Democrats would want them to have.
25:18
And so praise God that President Trump's doing this and I met with one of my national
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colleagues this week that he just had a meeting with the Religious Liberty Commission and
25:25
we're really excited here, the work that they're doing in Washington, DC, but we need to promote
25:29
Religious Liberty everywhere and we talked earlier about that state constitutional amendment.
25:33
The one thing I would encourage your viewers to really look into as well as look at what
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your states say about Religious Freedom because Wisconsin's a very unique state in that
25:41
we actually go past what the First Amendment says, but our state constitution says that
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the state shall not do anything that makes us violate worshiping Almighty God in the way
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that our conscience would call us to.
25:53
And so that's even further than what the First Amendment does.
25:55
And so it's a great opportunity for us to know what our Religious Freedom rights are
25:59
with our state constitutional and as well as our federal constitution.
26:02
There are some good things happening, but again, even though I love this, there's the DOJ
26:08
launched the task force to eradicate anti-Christian bias, even though there are some good things
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happening, we've got midterms coming up.
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Is it next year?
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Yeah, it's already twenty-two and a half.
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And so we cannot let up.
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In fact, I personally believe in, I think, last time we had Jolaine Epling on, thinks
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she said, we've got to work even harder in these two years.
26:30
And then we'll see what happens in the midterms.
26:33
But Christians, conservatives, we've got to work much harder than even before.
26:39
We can't take anything for granted because the left has gained so much ground.
26:45
They took so much ground and territory for the enemy, for evil.
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Satan comes to kill, steal, and destroy.
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And that's what the left has been trying to do.
26:55
And to some degree, they've been successful, so we've got a lot of ground to make up.
26:58
Closing thoughts in just like thirty seconds, Dan?
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Yeah, and just going off of that point that you had is, it's going to be razor, thin margins
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at the side, the majority at our state levels and the federal levels.
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And so we need to make sure that every Christian gets out between now and next November, and
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we need to make sure Christians honor God with their vote.
27:14
Amen, brother.
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Oh, Wisconsin, familyaction.org.
27:20
And we appreciate you guys.
27:21
Thank you so very much.
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God bless you.
27:23
And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.
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We'll see you next time.