Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Ryan Laemel, COO at Protect Our Winters

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Ryan Laemel, COO at Protect Our Winters · Coffee People Podcast

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Hello, welcome to the Coffee People podcast.
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And now on to the show. But I'll get started.
1:14
We'll just say hello to everybody.
1:15
Welcome to the Coffee With podcast.
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I'm your host, Ryan Waltz, and the show is presented by Rostar
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find recaps of our episode. Our coffee people, Coffee
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Smarter shows so much more. And if you haven't poured
1:36
yourself a cup of coffee, now is the time to get started.
1:40
Today's episode is special because we're sitting down with
1:43
a guest from outside the coffee industry.
1:46
Ryan Lamel is the COO, chief operating officer, I believe, at
1:50
Protect Our Winters, a nonprofit based out of Boulder, Co,
1:54
although he's in Basalt, Co. You might Remember Me mentioning
1:59
them as our charity of the month for February.
2:01
And so I encourage you to sit and just listen to this
2:04
conversation. But since I know myself and I
2:07
know you, you're probably on your phone.
2:09
You can also go to protectourwinters.org while
2:12
we're chatting. You'll find that link in our
2:14
show notes and, you know, on our website, just Scroll down, it'll
2:17
be there. Ryan, welcome to the podcast.
2:19
I'm glad you're here. Hey, it's great to be with a
2:22
fellow Ryan and I'm thrilled to be here.
2:25
I don't see you at the regular meetings, but I'm sure we must
2:27
have different chapters. Yeah, exactly the Ryan chapters.
2:31
You just mentioned to me that you're drinking a cup of coffee.
2:34
Do you have a coffee like coffee roaster in the area you like or
2:38
a coffee shop? Yeah, I have plenty.
2:41
I'm married to a Colombian, and so we especially love Colombian
2:47
coffee and have our favorites that we bring over when we make
2:51
trips there. But locally here in the Roaring
2:55
Fork Valley where I live, I love Rock Canyon.
2:58
They're a great roaster out of Newcastle and they've been a
3:01
partner, a pal in the past. And yeah, I also love tea as
3:06
well. We have a great tea company here
3:08
that POW partners with as well. Two leaves in a bud.
3:12
They're based out here in basalt as well.
3:14
So whether it's coffee or tea, I'm a fan.
3:17
But I generally stick to my pour over or a cortado.
3:23
Those are my favorites. Well, now that I know that you
3:26
like Columbia coffee, I'm going to send you a bag of our yeah no
3:29
yeah coffee collab that we did, which is a Columbia blend.
3:32
Well, I see you have another partner of ours on your shelf as
3:36
well. We work really closely with DOMA
3:39
and we've done the the series of of deep coffee roast.
3:44
So also a big fan and we've had that at a lot of our events.
3:49
So it's cool to see that on your shelf as well.
3:51
Not an accident, although it's there all the time.
3:55
I, I learned about Protect Our Winters because of this coffee
3:58
at Toma. I had the team from DOMA on or
4:01
some of their members and they were talking about it as part of
4:05
that show a few years ago. You know, Ryan, normally I'm do
4:10
this whole back story of how you got into coffee and all that,
4:13
but I think I'm a little more interested in how did you get
4:17
involved in Protect Our Winter? And you know what is Protect Our
4:21
Winter? Yeah, great question.
4:23
Well, I think DOMA is a great transition because they are
4:26
committed to sustainability, climate education and also
4:30
policy work that goes beyond their roasteries.
4:33
So I'm thrilled to see them on your shelf.
4:36
And yeah, how did I get involved in climate and energy and, and
4:39
what is PAL, I've been working in this space for a little over
4:44
a decade. And when I started a
4:47
sustainability was not a career path that most people were
4:52
thinking about. I studied geology and geophysics
4:55
and most people said I should work in the oil and gas sector.
4:58
I had a moral dilemma with that and ultimately started my career
5:04
in sustainability, got more into climate policy, and then
5:08
ultimately started working in clean energy around the world.
5:12
And when I moved out to this area about 10 years ago, I
5:17
started living in the mountains and I found that I really loved
5:21
these special places that all of us frequent.
5:24
I quickly fell in love with skiing, which I didn't grow up
5:27
doing, but now I love doing on foot, hiking uphill and getting
5:31
into the Backcountry. And I also fell in love quickly
5:34
with ice climbing and rock climbing.
5:37
And so I quickly noticed even around here that our winters
5:42
were changing and some seasons, especially the ice season, felt
5:46
like it was getting more and more compressed over time.
5:50
And I noticed that this group, Protect Our Winters was doing
5:54
phenomenal work and particular about trying to leverage the
5:59
motivation that people like you and me and probably many of your
6:02
listeners have to act on climate and to protect the places that
6:08
they love. But potentially asking
6:11
themselves, like, what do I do? How do I get involved?
6:15
And so, yeah. And So what POW is, is, you
6:19
know, we're an environmental nonprofit and we're really
6:22
trying to be the voice in the movement for the outdoor
6:26
community to take action on climate.
6:30
When you say to be the the Voice, you know, one of the
6:34
things that I think POW does that is hard to do as an
6:37
individual is policy work, working with governments, being
6:41
kind of a getting into some of the nitty gritty of things that
6:45
I just don't understand. Like I understand, like I should
6:47
recycle, I should be aware of my impact, you know, all of those
6:51
things and the things I can do in in my small little circle.
6:55
How do you how does being the voice give you a greater impact
6:59
so to speak to? Maybe one person can do alone?
7:02
Yeah, that's a great question. And you know, I think here at
7:06
Powell, what we're ultimately trying to do is build a large
7:10
movement of people within the outdoor community who are
7:13
interested in taking action on climate.
7:15
And there are studies that show that there's 175,000,000 of us
7:20
in the United States alone who participate in outdoor
7:23
recreation every year and the outdoor recreation. 175,000,000.
7:28
175,000,000 and our economy for outdoor recreation is $1.2
7:36
trillion per year. So what we've realized and what
7:40
our founder Jeremy Jones realized who's a professional
7:43
snowboarder is this community, this group of people could be a
7:47
powerful group if they could be well organized and advocate, use
7:53
their voices to advocate for systemic change.
7:57
We 100% believe in living and examined life at PAL.
8:02
And so I think about whether I need to take that trip or not,
8:05
or whether I can have that same climbing experience in my
8:09
backyard. And we also think about like,
8:13
should I purchase an internal combustion engine like a gas or
8:16
diesel powered vehicle, or should I purchase an EV if I
8:19
have the ability to do so? Or maybe even I should take the
8:22
bus to get to the ski mountain, which we're really lucky here in
8:25
the valley I live and I can do that.
8:28
But that only gets you so far. And I also used to work in clean
8:33
energy and sustainability consulting and worked with a lot
8:36
of companies who were taking action within their own internal
8:40
operations to remove carbon pollution from their operations.
8:45
So they were purchasing renewable energy, they were
8:48
changing their vehicle fleets for electric vehicles.
8:52
They were investing in their buildings to make them more
8:55
energy efficient. But at a certain point, you
8:57
reach a an area where those investments start to become
9:02
challenging, they get more expensive, they get harder to do
9:06
on your own. And so that's when I tell people
9:09
the most cost effective thing your business can do, the most
9:12
cost effective thing you can do to be a climate advocate is to
9:17
use your voice. And so when we talk about using
9:21
our voice at PAL, what we ultimately mean is going two
9:27
policy makers that could be elected officials like your
9:30
local representatives in Congress.
9:33
It could also be your town council.
9:36
It could also be a trip that we make to DC, which we do
9:39
regularly. But taking that trip, using your
9:42
voice and advocating for policy changes that are systemic, that
9:48
can ideally change the way our energy economy works.
9:54
I grew up watching Jeremy Jones videos.
9:56
I'm a Burton guy though, so I hope he doesn't get upset with
9:59
me. You mentioned this kind of
10:01
bigger vision and this this collective group.
10:04
I think a good example on the other side of that might be like
10:07
the the NRA, right? They're a collected group of gun
10:10
owners who speak with one voice, and that carries a lot of
10:13
weight. And what you were just saying
10:16
about outdoor recreation as I was kind of running through my
10:19
head is like, oh, well, it's not just snowboarders, it's skiers,
10:22
it's hikers, it's climbers, it's joggers, it's cyclists that, you
10:26
know, And if each of those groups did their own thing,
10:29
that's great. But when you put them together,
10:32
it's a bigger wave, right? Surfers throw in that group.
10:36
I was reading a little bit on your website about something
10:38
called the Theory of change and in particular finding the right
10:44
moment to act. How do you, how does, how do you
10:49
define the right moment to act when it feels like everyday
10:52
we're seeing stories about climate or seeing the impacts of
10:57
weather. I think about weather when I
10:59
travel. I mean, I don't get on a plane
11:01
without checking the weather anymore or drive across the
11:03
country. I think about it all the time
11:06
without even realizing that's part of this.
11:09
Climate and weather are separate.
11:11
You know, I'm going to go to the website or the the newsletter
11:13
everyone and I'll put some differentials there.
11:15
But how do you find this moment is is the tipping point versus
11:21
that moment? I mean as a group.
11:23
Yeah. Well, maybe I'll, I'll share a
11:25
little bit more about our founding story and then I'll
11:29
share, I'll share about how we pick those specific moments.
11:34
And so I mentioned earlier, like Jeremy Jones founded Powell in
11:38
2007, and I think his realization was that one, we
11:42
were losing the battle in protecting our winters.
11:46
And the science was very clear. But we needed a community of
11:49
people that could take action to persuade policy makers to do
11:55
their job to protect our planet. And ultimately, over the past 18
12:01
years, we've been working to build that community, and now
12:05
our mission at Powers to mobilize that community to take
12:10
action on climate. And the way we really do that is
12:13
with the four alliances that we work with.
12:16
So we work with 200 professional athletes, 100 brands, 50
12:22
artists, and 40 scientists to do our work.
12:26
And what that work is, is telling inspiring stories about
12:31
the outdoors and why we should protect the places that we love.
12:35
It's also educating and training people on the basics of climate
12:40
science and climate solutions. And then, you know, lastly, we
12:46
do a lot of work around policy and campaigns.
12:49
So we were in DC even after the election result and we met with
12:55
33 different members of Congress on both sides of the aisle.
13:01
And I love that about PAL. Jeremy's been clear about that
13:04
from the start that we need to engage across the aisle.
13:09
And in terms of how we think about like what ideas we're
13:13
going to be engaging our audience with, we try to think
13:16
about this in terms of like, how do we prioritize what makes
13:20
sense for us at PAL. And the way I think about this
13:24
is first, like it has to be a major climate or environmental
13:28
issue. So for example, like a lot of
13:32
people will talk about aviation, like air travel, and that is an
13:37
important sector for us to be working on, but it's 2% to 3% of
13:41
global carbon emissions. Whereas if we think about how
13:45
our power is generated or how our transportation works, like
13:50
how we get from point A to point B, those tend to be 20 plus
13:54
percent of emissions in the US per sector.
14:00
And so we really want to be tackling those sectors that are
14:03
20 or 30% of global emissions. So like what's a big problem
14:08
that we can tackle? The other piece we think about
14:11
are like, you know what, what is an imminent threat?
14:15
Like what do we have to protect? Because potentially another
14:19
group is not interested in that particular area of progress on
14:26
climate or clean energy. So there, this could be as small
14:30
as your backyard. There's a lot of quote UN quote,
14:33
Nimbyism in the environmental movement.
14:36
Not in my backyard. I don't want that project in my
14:39
backyard. That's an imminent threat that a
14:42
solar project could face. You know, a larger example of
14:46
that is perhaps there is a particular group within Congress
14:51
that does not want to support policies that would either level
14:56
the playing field or potentially even incentivize certain clean
15:00
energy technologies. So we're constantly monitoring,
15:02
like, what are those threats? And then lastly, we think about
15:06
what's close to home for us. Like what resonates with the POW
15:11
community? We have, you know, 98,000
15:15
members of our member organization.
15:18
We're not quite rivaling those NRA numbers that you mentioned
15:21
earlier, Ryan, but we are working to build our community
15:25
over time. And we know what they care
15:27
about. They care about protecting
15:29
public lands. They care about clean energy and
15:33
their backyards and they care about like the local activities
15:38
that they participate in, from angling to hunting to, you know,
15:43
riding on snow. Like we were talking out at the
15:46
beginning. So we try to identify like where
15:49
the sweet spot is between those three areas of like big climate
15:53
problem potentially under threat and then also close to home for
15:57
our community. And if there is an opportunity
15:59
for us to collaborate with our athletes, our brand partners and
16:05
others like that for us is really the sweet spot of how we
16:08
picked those opportunities. You mentioned talking to
16:14
lawmakers on both sides. Yeah, I get those emails from
16:19
all kinds of nonprofits, but REI does a bunch of them.
16:22
And I've got, I think I've gotten one from you guys
16:23
recently, you know, take action. Sign this letter to your local
16:28
constituents. You know, your lawmakers do
16:32
those really it seems like so like, oh, I clicked a couple
16:35
buttons. Here's the thing.
16:36
Does that actually work to lawmakers see that and go, oh,
16:39
there are people that are involved or care.
16:42
I mean, you're obviously going to them with this, you know, the
16:46
weight of our your organization behind them.
16:48
But for the individual, it kind of just feels like it's almost
16:52
too easy. Like this probably doesn't have
16:54
an impact. I mean, as the individual who's
16:56
listening to this show or who's looking at the website, like how
17:00
much impact can I really have, you know, in, in that way?
17:04
Yeah. Well, I think there's such a
17:07
relationship between climate and democracy and in the US, like
17:12
we're so fortunate to have a democratic process that we can
17:16
engage our elected representatives in and
17:20
ultimately think about the incentive structure for these
17:22
elected officials, right? They want to be re elected and
17:26
they need to hear from their constituents, us, about what we
17:31
care about. And one of our former board
17:34
members, his name's Auden Chandler.
17:36
He wrote a great book recently called Terrible Beauty.
17:40
And in that book and from his own personal anecdotes, he talks
17:44
about some of these moments. He is currently the senior vice
17:48
president of sustainability at Aspen, one who's one of our
17:51
brand partners. And 10 years ago, the valley
17:55
that Aspen operates in and that I live in had the majority of
17:59
its power coming from coal and coming from what's called a
18:04
rural electric cooperative called Holy Cross.
18:09
And when Auden and others spoke to our local elected officials
18:14
in Grand Junction and, and other parts of Colorado, many of them
18:18
said, I haven't heard about this desire from constituents.
18:23
No one's come into my office in these more, you know, Reds, red
18:29
parts of Colorado. No one's come into my office and
18:32
said they want clean energy, they want action on climate.
18:36
I haven't heard that message. You're one of the first people
18:40
to tell me that message. And so it's great to hear from
18:43
you. And the same is true for the
18:45
local electric, you know, provider that we have, Holy
18:50
Cross like they have a board. That board is elected and those
18:55
board members are responsible for deciding the power supply
18:59
mix that, you know, we receive in this valley.
19:02
And so if those board members hear from their members, every
19:06
one of us in this area is a member of that electric provider
19:11
that we want clean energy. They take action.
19:14
And today more than 70% of the power from Holy Cross comes from
19:19
solar and wind and batteries because it's the most cost
19:25
effective form of power for them.
19:27
It is the most affordable and the easiest, fastest to deploy
19:33
option for them. And so when we use our voice,
19:37
whether it's the local electric company or with our
19:41
congressional officials, they actually do listen to us.
19:45
And, and I know it may feel like a small action, but when we take
19:51
a lot of people and all take that small action together,
19:55
that's when we can start to see like the type of snowball effect
20:00
that we want to see at PAL. So I really believe in using our
20:04
voice, but. Our our challenge is to make
20:08
sure that that voice is heard and that we hold our elected
20:10
officials accountable for what we asked them to do.
20:14
You mentioned the alliances program and strategic
20:18
partnerships, a term that I learned from a video that I
20:25
watched starring Amy Anger anger Bretson.
20:28
Excuse me, Amy called the hypocrite was imperfect advocacy
20:34
and it directly speaks to a question.
20:38
I think a lot of people who are passionate about the outdoors
20:42
and environmentalism and sustainability, but also want to
20:45
be out doing things faces, which is am I, is it hypocritical for
20:52
me to say that I want these things but also go and do these
20:55
sports which have impacts? You know, we're all inherently
20:59
impactful and it can get overwhelming to start going into
21:03
the the details of it. What do you say to people who
21:07
are like, man, I, I'd almost feel like it's counterintuitive,
21:10
but like they're like, man, I would support protect our
21:13
winters or organizations like yours, but I'm part of the
21:16
problem. So it would be hypocritical of
21:18
me to do so. Or I'm out there, you know, on
21:24
your on your website, and I apologize to call you out.
21:26
You recently put out this article about banks, you know,
21:30
is the bank that you bank at, you know, contributing to
21:33
climate problems? You know, what are they doing
21:36
with their money? You know, the money that you're
21:37
saving there and, and, you know, generating interest on or
21:40
however you're working with them.
21:42
And there's this kind of good place problem where some of the
21:46
banks on that list, which are like better necessarily for the
21:49
environment, meaning they're not investing in coal or, or climate
21:53
issues or climate impactful industries, also got their start
21:59
by offering auto loans. And their business is predicated
22:04
on auto loans. And so while some of those might
22:06
be electric now, but certainly not all of them.
22:08
So if there's always going to be this, I do this one thing and it
22:11
feels like the right thing, but then there's this unexpected
22:14
impact. What do you say to people who
22:17
are struggling with that that climate guilt?
22:19
Yeah, I think it's completely reasonable to feel that way.
22:22
And I think often we feel climate anxiety, right?
22:26
Like you can see wildfires happening in places like LA
22:31
given the extreme drought that they experienced and the winds,
22:36
the Santa Ana winds that were amplified from a warmer climate.
22:40
And you can also look at places like North Carolina that
22:43
experienced, you know, a terrible flooding event during
22:47
this past year and during the hurricane cycle.
22:50
So I think people feel climate anxiety and they're also seeing
22:54
it happen either in their neighborhoods or two loved ones
22:59
in their communities. So I think feeling guilt is
23:03
completely reasonable. And I think we have to ask
23:06
ourselves, like, don't let the enemy.
23:09
How do we not let the the perfect be the enemy of the
23:12
good? And in this case, like we have
23:16
to remember this concept of imperfect advocacy.
23:19
Amy and others talk about this, but we've been sold this
23:23
narrative that our carbon footprint, you know, our
23:28
emissions are what's causing climate change.
23:31
And that's true. Like it, We are inextricably
23:35
linked to many fossil fuels in our society, and 70% of
23:41
emissions come from just about 100 companies.
23:45
And many of those companies tend to operate in the fossil fuel
23:49
industry. And I'm not saying that we need
23:52
to remove all fossil fuels tomorrow.
23:56
Even the best forecast often show that there will be some gas
24:00
still in our system in 20-50. And that's because there is
24:04
demand for it. People are driving vehicles
24:07
that, you know, use gasoline, for example, where we have
24:11
plastic products that we use like our poles to go skiing and
24:15
those are made from petroleum. Even products that we use
24:19
everyday like a lip balm, ultimately many of them do have
24:25
petroleum in them. So we're still really
24:27
inextricably linked to that. But that doesn't mean that we
24:31
can't take other actions in our day-to-day lives.
24:36
And I think you know you can take small actions yourself.
24:40
So I think about our own banking journey at POW, which you
24:43
brought up earlier, like we work with regional bank in Colorado
24:50
and they are not as as good as the best banks out there like a
24:56
Climate First Bank of Florida or Amalgamated or Better State
25:00
Bank. Those banks are often about 15
25:05
to 50, you know, metric tons of CO2 per $1,000,000 invested.
25:15
Our bank is about 100 and the big four banks in the US are
25:21
typically about 300. So I put us in that like better
25:26
category, but we're certainly not the best.
25:29
And so we have to ask ourselves, can we take actions in other
25:33
areas on the path to becoming best in class?
25:37
And So what we do with our own practices are one, we offer a
25:42
great retirement plan for our employees that offers options to
25:46
invest in companies that are solving the climate crisis and
25:51
divest from companies who are contributing to it.
25:54
And we work with a group called Carbon Collective to do that.
25:57
Similarly, like as most nonprofits do, we have some cash
26:01
that we don't need tomorrow, longer term cash, and we try to
26:05
invest that. So we make sure that the people
26:08
who donate to us, their money is not just sitting in a bank
26:11
account. We're investing it smartly, but
26:13
with a really low risk profile because we're a nonprofit.
26:17
And so we work with an investment advisor who helps us
26:20
invest in municipal bonds that are specific projects in local
26:26
communities that are renewable energy projects, energy
26:29
efficiency upgrades for buildings or even electric buses
26:33
for a town. We can pick those projects that
26:36
we're investing and they give us good returns, like 4 to 5%
26:40
returns. And then lastly, like we are
26:43
also looking at our business insurance.
26:45
We work with a group called Premiums for the Planet, and
26:48
they help you broker insurance with providers who are committed
26:52
to solving the climate crisis. And they also use their voice
26:56
for advocacy as well. So just because our bank isn't
26:59
perfect doesn't mean we can't take action in these other
27:03
areas. And we are also trying to talk
27:06
to those best in class banks. We already started that
27:09
conversation about how we can eventually start working with
27:13
them. And it sounds like they can
27:14
provide the services that we need as a nonprofit.
27:18
So I wouldn't treat it as like all or nothing.
27:22
I would tell people like, you know, 1000 mile journey starts
27:26
with one step and you've just got to take that first step.
27:30
And just because maybe you ride a snowmobile or fly somewhere
27:34
doesn't mean you can't go show up at a town hall meeting or
27:40
call your elected representatives and let them
27:42
know that you want clean energy. Because these are big systems
27:47
that we're trying to change and we need a lot of small decisions
27:50
to add up to changing those big systems.
27:53
When you started kind of that that explanation, you use the
27:58
term our a couple of times. I just want to clarify you're
28:02
talking about the individual, I mean protector winners, yes, But
28:05
like, yeah, our as an individual, our impact is only
28:11
so great and using like thinking about the actions being
28:15
intentional. I think you referred to earlier
28:18
about where you put your money or where you're shopping or what
28:21
you're supporting or when you need something or it's a benefit
28:26
to your your life and your personal, you know, health.
28:28
I think about that a lot with I travel to snowboard right and
28:35
how am I going to do that? Am I going to fly?
28:37
Am I going to drive? Is do I need to do that?
28:40
Do I need to go to the farther mountain because it's my
28:41
favorite? You know, can I do the closer
28:43
one? Yes, those things matter, but
28:45
systemically, you know, it's like the going into a grocery
28:51
store for me was like a tipping point.
28:53
I was at one point, if I don't think I've ever said this, but
28:56
I've, I can be a little bit extremist about things and there
29:00
was like a good 10 year period where I don't think like we had
29:03
plastic in our house for like hardly anything.
29:07
I mean, I was really on top of it all the time, but it was also
29:12
really exhausting. And it only worked because I had
29:16
the time to devote, because to, to, to the process to research
29:19
what I was buying all the time or to go somewhere.
29:22
And then I realized, well, I'm also going to like 3 different
29:25
stores to get just the one thing.
29:27
And so now I'm, it's just too deep of a problem.
29:32
And I realized one day at the grocery store that there was
29:35
more waste in that grocery store than I would probably generate,
29:39
you know, in 10 years, just in that one store that one day.
29:43
And so I couldn't let that get on top of me when making
29:46
choices. I had to be able to also live
29:48
and enjoy my life so that I could be a productive person who
29:52
could then help, you know, address these these issues if I
29:55
had the opportunity. The Climate Advocates guide
30:00
book. I didn't get a chance to dig
30:02
into it, but what is Where does that take us from here?
30:07
Yeah, great question. And I think this relates to what
30:10
we were just talking about. Like what action can you take?
30:15
Like what are you empowered to do?
30:18
And I think if you think about that example you were just
30:22
giving, like in the grocery store, it can feel paralyzing
30:26
when you see that amount of waste.
30:29
And it can also feel paralyzing when you try to put yourself in
30:34
someone else's shoes because we don't all have the same access
30:38
to resources. We don't all have the same
30:41
position. I recognize, like I come from a
30:44
position of privilege, and I'm able to contemplate whether I'm
30:49
going to purchase a electric heat pump for my home.
30:55
But for some people, that's a really big expense and that
30:57
upfront cost might not make it possible for them.
31:01
But if you think about the bigger system that you're
31:03
operating in, if you could just change the power supply, then we
31:09
would all be operating our electricity consumption on a
31:12
clean grid. And I think that's like we have
31:16
to think about how we can accomplish that.
31:18
And so for the climate advocates guide book, like ultimately
31:23
climate advocacy is about trying to pass the policies that we
31:30
want to see and also trying to realize those outcomes, whether
31:37
it's voting or calling an elected official.
31:40
But we can't do that every single day, right?
31:44
I think that is the toughest part that we all face.
31:48
And so we have a set of solutions that people can dig
31:52
into in the climate advocates guidebook.
31:54
They can, you know, get the beta, which as a climber, you
31:58
know, means like basically the information that you need to
32:02
solve the the tougher parts of the problem, the climb that
32:06
you're trying to get up. How do you get through that
32:08
difficult move? And that for us is our
32:11
newsletter, like stay in touch. We just follow us on social
32:15
media. Like we are constantly sharing
32:17
about the latest climate news trends that we're seeing in ways
32:23
you can get involved. You know, secondly, we encourage
32:26
people to examine their own lifestyle.
32:28
You can look at your own carbon footprint.
32:30
We have a calculator on our website to look at the footprint
32:33
of your bank and the money that you invest through that bank.
32:38
And you can make some of these small decisions today.
32:41
You don't have to move all of your money tomorrow to a better
32:44
bank, but you could move a little bit of your money and
32:48
start making progress down that. We also encourage people to tell
32:52
their own story in a unique way. So how do we actually make
32:57
climate a regular trailhead or lift chair topic across the US?
33:04
We should be sharing like the climate impacts that we think
33:07
that we're experiencing in our backyards with a wide range of
33:12
people. And sometimes people will not
33:15
agree with what you're sharing, and that's fine.
33:18
But we call that rather than a call to action, a call to
33:22
thought, a call to think, a call to think differently.
33:26
Maybe you made a 1% difference in changing that person's
33:30
perception on climate. And lastly, we get lots of
33:34
opportunities for people to get involved in the work that we're
33:37
doing and the work that others are doing.
33:39
There's like some great lawsuits that are happening lately from
33:43
groups like Surfrider. We do a lot of electoral work,
33:47
especially during midterms and presidential election years.
33:51
And so how can you actually host like a film screening, for
33:55
example, in your backyard with some friends and even some
33:59
people in your community that you don't see regularly?
34:02
So you can have a discussion about whether people are going
34:05
to get out and vote and what their plan is to vote.
34:08
So our goal with the guidebook is to offer people really simple
34:13
ways to engage because sometimes, like I said earlier,
34:17
it can feel a little paralyzing when you're in that grocery
34:20
store seeing all of that waste happen.
34:22
But we want to make it easy for people to take small actions,
34:26
and we really believe that over time, those small actions allow
34:30
us to take bigger actions as a community.
34:33
It's like a muscle. We're trying to train how people
34:37
engage civically on climate in the US and around the world.
34:43
The discussion with people that may disagree is an interesting
34:48
one. There are people in my life that
34:49
I'm close to who we can argue about this topic pretty
34:54
voraciously very quickly. But in general, we're not
35:01
disagreeing that there is changes happening.
35:03
It's usually a more of a one of us is trying to be right and the
35:07
other one is has to be wrong as opposed to or maybe we disagree
35:12
on how we got here. But the reality is, is we are
35:14
here and we are seeing that impact.
35:17
You know what my dad said to me once, and we're we have
35:22
differing perspectives on the world, certainly quite
35:26
different. But he said, you know, I grew up
35:29
on a farm. And if you ask any of the
35:30
farmers around here, the weather is changing, like their seasons
35:33
are changing. And whether they agree or
35:36
disagree on why, it doesn't matter.
35:39
It's happening and they have to react to it.
35:42
And so I think that's something I've taken to heart in that
35:48
pointing out or say or asking people, how are you dealing with
35:52
this change that we're experiencing?
35:54
You know, how is this impacting you?
35:56
It is been helpful for me. Certainly I'm not trying to, to
36:01
tell anyone how to, to approach this.
36:03
But for me, asking questions has been more valuable than me
36:06
saying, Hey, this is what you should know.
36:07
And This is why, which I think it's more of an empathy as
36:12
opposed to trying to get my point across, which is obviously
36:16
right. You mentioned earlier that you
36:20
were married. You know why I say that?
36:25
Because I think when I think about climate, family is
36:28
important. My wife and I are not having
36:29
kids. And so there's this.
36:33
I've had people ask like, well, why do you care about the
36:35
future? And so I'm wondering, and I have
36:40
my own answer for that, but I'm wondering what does this work
36:42
mean to you on a daily basis, like to emotionally to you
36:46
outside of your job? Why do you, why do you care?
36:50
Why does this matter? Yeah, well, I think, you know,
36:53
we're really committed to being cross partisan at PAL and
36:56
working, you know, from the right to the left and in
37:00
between. And I think for us, we often ask
37:04
people like what issues do you care about?
37:07
What are your values? And I think we often can agree
37:11
on an outcome. I think we often struggle to
37:14
agree on the motive. And so I usually tell people
37:19
like try to think about what outcomes you want and then what
37:23
is the a pathway to get there that we can ideally all agree
37:27
on. So I care a lot about clean air
37:30
and clean water and a healthy planet.
37:32
That is our vision at Powell. And there may be debate about
37:40
how exactly we get there, and there are many pathways to
37:45
getting there. But I think when you ask people
37:48
what they care about, they often care about the economy.
37:53
You know, they often care about a healthy environment.
37:59
And so how do we actually show people that the work that we're
38:05
doing, like clean energy, is leading to the outcomes that
38:09
they want? If you look at the main policy
38:12
that the US has worked on over the past several years called
38:16
the Inflation Reduction Act, it's rolled out about $350
38:20
billion in public funds to support manufacturing, to create
38:27
jobs, to support local clean energy projects.
38:31
And if you look at where that funding is actually gone, about
38:33
85% of it has gone to Republican controlled districts.
38:39
And if you look at how they're spending that money, they're
38:42
spending it really efficiently. They're leveraging a lot of
38:45
private sector dollars for every one of those federal dollars.
38:50
And so for me, I'm really encouraged by that.
38:53
Like there is skin in the game in those districts because those
38:58
are opportunities for innovation and opportunities for jobs.
39:02
And so for me, I always think about like what it, what is the
39:05
outcome that I want and what's the outcome that we're, we're
39:09
gearing towards. And my wife and I like, we want
39:13
to have children. And that's a personal decision,
39:15
like you said. And I want them to have the
39:18
chance like I do right now to slide on snow it's or swing an
39:24
ice tool into a frozen ice column, if that's what they want
39:29
to do. And I want them to be able to
39:32
experience those experiences and a similar way to how I am.
39:38
And we have to make really significant changes in our
39:42
economy to do that. And I also want to keep doing it
39:46
myself, you know, and I know that may sound selfish, but I
39:50
think that's really important motivator for many of us.
39:53
We love these activities that we do and we want to keep doing
39:57
them in the same way we do them today.
39:59
And I guess the last thing I'll add, like I've spent a lot of my
40:03
life working in other countries. I spent a lot of time working in
40:06
India in particular, and I worry about that part of the world
40:12
more so than I worry about the part of the world where we live.
40:17
I'm at 6 1/2 thousand feet, Like it is going to get drier here.
40:22
We are probably going to face more wildfires in the future,
40:26
but we are in a pretty cool place and we have really great
40:32
clean air. In many parts of India,
40:34
temperatures are reaching 120°F regularly in the summer.
40:40
Now they're breaking temperature records every year. 2024, right,
40:44
was the hottest year on record in the past decade, been the 10
40:47
hottest years on record. So I also do the work that I'm
40:50
doing because of the people I've met throughout my life, from
40:54
South America to India. Like, I want other parts of the
40:58
world who are probably going to face more significant climate
41:01
impacts than we are here in the US to have a shot at, you know,
41:06
living the lives that they want to live without serious
41:09
disruption. And I really believe that if we
41:12
can deploy clean energy at the rate that we need to, which is
41:17
about two big clean energy projects per day in the US, and
41:21
if we can electrify our vehicles, which we're already
41:24
starting to do, it's starting to be a cost effective solution for
41:28
people. And we can change how we build
41:31
our buildings. I really feel like we can have a
41:35
planet that all of us, you know, enjoy living on.
41:39
And we protect that future that we all want to have.
41:43
So the reason I do the work I do is, you know, part of that
41:47
motivation for myself and my family and also the people I've
41:51
met along the way. What comes next?
41:54
We're at the beginning of a new administration that is going to
41:58
have new ideas. Obviously we've been seeing that
42:00
play out. The Inflation Reduction Act you
42:02
mentioned is got knocked around a bit already.
42:06
What is the future for Protect Our Winters?
42:10
Great question. I think over the years, like we
42:15
have realized where we've been building the community, but we
42:19
could probably build the community more consistently,
42:24
more locally and even potentially faster.
42:27
I like to tell people we've been a little bit like a Colorado
42:30
snowpack. Here in Colorado, it snows maybe
42:34
every two weeks throughout the winter and then you get this big
42:38
dry period. And what that leads to is not
42:41
the most stable snowpack overtime, but in a place like
42:46
California in a maritime snowpack snows pretty
42:49
consistently. I know this year's been a bit of
42:51
an exception, but when you get that frequent constant snow, you
42:57
end up with a deep snowpack that is safe and fun to ride.
43:02
And we want to start being the Sierra snowpack for our
43:07
community. And what that ultimately means
43:11
is, like, under this new administration, climate action
43:14
has been under attack, as has diversity, equity and inclusion,
43:20
like, you know, making the outdoors a place for everyone.
43:24
And we worry about federal and international climate progress.
43:29
But we've realized that this moment actually needs a
43:33
different strategy to create sustained climate action, and
43:39
it's got to be able to last beyond an administration.
43:43
And so for us, what that looks like is trying to build power,
43:49
no pun intended, within local communities.
43:53
And so we have a a variety of our athletes, brands, artists
43:58
and scientists throughout the US, but they tend to exist in
44:02
some concentrated areas. So here in Colorado, western
44:07
Montana, Reno, Tahoe area, we have pockets of people and we
44:12
really believe that if we show up more consistently in those
44:16
communities, we can create a movement within those
44:21
communities that will show up for midterm elections, federal
44:25
elections and more. And so we are trying to build a
44:30
movement within that outdoor state, the 175 million people
44:34
who recreate outdoors every year in the US where Powell is
44:38
meeting them in their backyards regularly.
44:42
We're going to call this community hubs and we're
44:46
finishing up kind of building out the concept right now.
44:49
We're fundraising for it and our plan is to get at least three to
44:54
six of these built by the end of the year, more in 2026.
45:00
And I'd love to see, you know, 10 plus of these throughout the
45:03
country in the next several years.
45:06
And what we're going to be doing there is a lot of regular
45:10
monthly programming. Like we held an uphill event
45:13
here in Aspen recently where as people walked uphill on their
45:16
skis they saw climate and energy facts just 5 or 6 packs to start
45:22
a conversation. It could also mean going to a
45:25
local brewery and having a film screening about by one of our
45:29
artists on. Like why how we can have, for
45:33
example, climate conversations in purple districts or why
45:38
climate anxiety and microplastics is an area that we
45:42
should all be talking about. And we want to see people show
45:46
up to with us, including our athletes and others to town hall
45:51
meetings. Often clean energy projects are
45:53
happening right in our backyards.
45:55
And the loudest voice, the people who show up to those
45:59
meetings, just like a parent Teacher association meeting,
46:02
they're the ones who decide whether that project gets a
46:04
green light or get stopped. And we believe our people can
46:09
show up for those types of projects.
46:11
And we also believe a lot of policy, good policy for climate
46:15
can happen at the local and state levels.
46:19
You know, many towns, cities and states control zoning, which has
46:24
a huge impact on what types of buildings we build, whether
46:27
those buildings have solar panels on them or not.
46:30
And we really want to meet people in their place, in their
46:34
backyards, offer them the same training and education that we
46:38
offer our alliances that we work with and give them local, state
46:44
and federal opportunities to engage in climate action on a
46:48
regular basis. And so for us, we're going to be
46:51
trying to complement what we the great work that we do with our
46:54
alliances with building a local grassroots movement through
46:59
these community hubs so that when we get to the 2026 midterms
47:05
and the 2028 elections, we have a lot of collective power on the
47:10
ground in these places. I'm already like nervous about
47:16
election seasons. It's a election season never
47:18
ends. I was talking to some friends in
47:20
Canada and they're like, you guys just never take a break.
47:22
You just need to like chill out a little bit.
47:25
I know we just, we covered a lot, you know, especially our
47:28
first time meeting and, and chatting about POW and there's a
47:31
lot for people to take in. Is there anything important that
47:34
I missed that you wanted to share?
47:36
I think I'll add just like two small points.
47:39
I think the first is our beliefs at POW like we believe that this
47:47
problem is solvable. We don't believe that we're in
47:51
an energy emergency like has been shared.
47:54
We believe we're in a climate emergency, but we believe this
47:58
problem is solvable. We have cost effective solutions
48:03
like renewable energy and electrification to get us there.
48:08
And ultimately, we need a organized movement of people to
48:13
make that change and the outdoor state, as we call it, those 175
48:18
million people, we really believe they can be one powerful
48:21
voice that just like you said, that is up there with the ranks
48:27
of the NRA in terms of power, in terms of its advocacy.
48:32
So that's one point I'd want to share.
48:33
And lastly, I would encourage you all listening to join Team
48:36
Pal. It is the best way to stay in
48:40
touch with us to hear what we're up to, to engage with our
48:44
alliances, and over time, as we build out these community hubs,
48:48
it'll be the place to find out when we're having an event
48:52
locally. Whether you want to attend a
48:54
film screening, an event like a trail run or a local run in your
48:59
area, or if you want to head with us, we're really going to
49:03
be doing a lot of work to protect our public lands.
49:07
We're going to be doing a lot of work to advocate for solar,
49:09
wind, and other types of clean energy projects in your
49:13
backyards. So it'll be a great chance for
49:15
you to stay involved and show up with us.
49:19
Like my physical therapist recently said, it's the squeaky
49:22
wheel. Always you got to create a
49:24
bigger squeaky wheel. My last question for you today,
49:28
Ryan. And I got to say, I just really
49:29
appreciate it all the time. And I know it's a never ending
49:33
effort. When you're passing through
49:36
Colorado, maybe you pop off I-70 at one of my favorite coffee
49:40
shops, Plume. Quick shout out to Plume.
49:44
What are you going to order? I always order a cortado if I
49:49
can, I just find it's like the perfect balance of espresso
49:54
coffee flavor with a little bit of milk.
49:57
It's my my favorite drink and it pipes me up super well.
50:01
And I am a big fan of burritos, so if there is a good burrito I
50:07
will gladly order that as well. Well, I, I'm glad you were here
50:13
and I'm glad to have learned more.
50:14
I mean, I'm a, a member of Team Powell, but I certainly learned
50:17
quite a bit today. And we hope that anyone
50:20
listening, if they have questions, reach out and check
50:23
out the newsletter and, and we'll have more information for
50:25
you. Thank you, Ryan, so much.
50:27
Ryan, right back at you, great to meet you, great to be on the
50:31
pod and really grateful to you and your listeners for keeping
50:36
keeping the coffee flowing and and also hopefully keeping the
50:38
power beat. Hey there everyone.
50:48
Thank you for coming back for another episode of our podcast.
50:51
That's the show for today. Thank you to our guest for
50:54
sharing their time, their story, and for dropping some knowledge
50:57
on all of us. You can find a recap of this
50:59
episode in our newsletter online at roastwestcoast.com.
51:04
That and all the links we chatted about today are in this
51:07
podcast Show notes, wherever you're listening or watching.
51:12
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us and continually uplift this effort to share the stories of
52:07
coffee people. Thank you.
52:09
I feel like I don't say it enough, if that's possible, but
52:13
also thank you to everyone listening and watching this show
52:16
for sharing a cup of coffee with us and for being coffee curious.
52:21
This show, the Coffee People podcast is part of the Roast
52:25
West Coast Coffee Network, and this episode is was has been
52:29
written, produced, researched and recorded by me.
52:31
Ryan, Walt, wherever you find yourself today, I hope it's with
52:36
a fine cup of coffee. Thank you for listening to us
52:39
share the stories of Coffee People.
52:42
Cheers everyone.