Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Overlanding with Bruce on the Defender and Fly and Drive Southern Africa

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Overlanding with Bruce on the Defender and Fly and Drive Southern Africa · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overline Journal podcast. I am
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: your host Scott Brady, and I'm joined today by Bruce Turner.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Now Bruce is known as Overlanding with Bruce here in
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: South Africa, and he is an extremely interesting character that
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: has not only his own personal businesses, but he has
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a passion for helping people come to South Africa, into
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Southern Africa and explore this incredible continent. So he uses
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: high luxes to provide people with the access into the
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: back country, but he also has a personal love for
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: land rovers. So we talk about how people can come
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: to South Africa, they can use a high lux to explore,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: how they prepare the vehicles, what to look for on
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: a trip, some recommendations around places to go and key
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: places to visit. Kind of how Bruce sets up a
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: trip for someone coming in to do their own, self managed,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: self directed, self navigated, self driven drives around Southern Africa.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: But then we get into a really fun conversation around
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: using modern land rovers for exploration in such rugged terrain
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: in such remote locations, because Bruce actually uses just a
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: couple year old land Rover Defender and he's had really
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: good success with his vehicle so there's a lot of
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: information out on the internet around what does a defender
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: work like off road, how does it last, what the
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: reliability is like. So we really dig into how he
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: has modified and prepared modern Defenders for overland travel and
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: remote locations, but also the successes and some of the
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: challenges that he's had along the way. So please enjoy
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: my conversation with Bruce.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Well, Bruce, thank you so much for being on the
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: podcast today with me. There's a couple things that I'm
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: so excited to talk to you about, starting with your
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: use of Modern Defenders for long distance overland travel here
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: in Africa, so we're going to talk about that. But
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: then I also really want to do the deep dive
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: onto how you work with people when they're coming to
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: visit Africa and do their own self drive journey around
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: the country. But let's start off the conversation a little
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: bit with you mentioned that you were born in Zimbabwe,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: So tell me where were you born in Zimbabwe and
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: how did you end up in South Africa.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, so I grew up in back then it was
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: called Salisbury in Zimbabwe, but now it's called Harari just
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: on the outskirts and a sort of verst the area
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: called Borodale, okay, And I mean I had a great childhood.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: We had very much optos type of upbringing and there
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: I was on farms most of the time, and unfortunately
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: my parents got divorced. My mother came to South Africa.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: My father stayed behind, and I actually came with my mother.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah sure, yeah, I mean I was probably about twelve
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: to eighteen. Yeah, sure, yeah.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: That would be quite a change, wouldn't it to go
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: from being in the in the wilds too in such
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: a big city.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. You know, it was South Africa. It was always
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: this massive metropolitan city for for US guys growing up
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: in Harari, So it was it was quite a big
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: change to come to school. Yeah, in Horrari, I was
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: at all boys private school. In South Africa, I was
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: at a male female school what do you call it,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: dual mediums co ed school. Yeah, so that was a
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: big change. Sure, I had all these ladies around me,
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: and I didn't know how to talk to ladies.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: You know, trial by fire, Yeah exactly. Oh that's incredible.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: So when you look back at your time in Zimbabwe,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: what were a couple of high points, What were a
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: couple of memories that you had that really sparked your
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: passion for the outdoors.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: I think where we specifically, we were just outside of
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: Harari and we had a small holding there that was
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: not deep in the bush, but it was enough in
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: the bush that it made it feel like a real
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: bush and we had horses and all that sort of thing.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: And I used to spend a lot of my time
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: just exploring because TV only started it I think Help
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: was five in those days, you know, and before that
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: was just the test patent.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Would the world be better off? Yeah, that was the case.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: None of the social media apps worked until five pm.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Think of all the kids, they'd be outside to be
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: in the pool, yeah, absolutely, like you, they'd be running
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: around in the bush.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: So I've had to swim, rite my BMX or be
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: in the bush. And most of the time I included
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: all three in there.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah and each day. Yeah, that was my life. Oh
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: but what I can see why that would be such
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: an incredible experience growing up and how it would just
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: create this deep love for the outback for you. So
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: you when you moved to South Africa at twelve, So
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: then did you still get the chance to go back
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: off into Zimbabwe?
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Or so. I used to go every December for the
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Christmas Holidays to visit my family, my father, yeah, and
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: his you know, and the rest of my family and Hari.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: I was very fortunate to have that because a lot
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: of my family are very traditional, so you know, Christmas
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: Holidays was a big thing for the family, and everyone
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: get together on Christmas Day for lunch and share gifts
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: and all that sort of thing. And every Sunday as
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: a family, we would generally do something. So we would
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: either bribe or barbecue, or we would go to the
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: dam and go skiing with jet skis not jes ski
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: speedboats and that sort of thing. Or we would just
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: be out in the mart, you know, doing something. There
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: was this place just outside hurri called Dumbash how where
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: we used to go and just climb rocks and swimming
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: rock pools and things like that. You know. So it
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: was a very basic sort of upbringing. And I'm pretty
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I'm very fortunate to have gone through there, because I
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: think a lot of the children nowadays are missing that.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know that I missed that. In my
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: own life, I have to really have a lot of
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: discipline around not being on devices to make sure that
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I'm out playing on my BMX or in the pool
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: or in the bush.
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  Speaker 3: Right, absolutely.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I think we have to remember to tell ourselves to
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: do that, even at this age.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah. Absolutely.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: So when when you first started traveling in the in
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: the back country, were you traveling in a land rover
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: at that time? No?
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: Funny enough, my first vehicle. I used to work part
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: time at the local store CNA, which was they kind
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: of sold looks and stationary just to earn some extra money,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: and I bought my first car, which was a VW
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Rabbit one.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Those were cool.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Those were cool. We call them golfs. Yeah, it was
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: a Rabbit in America and it was eleven hundred cc.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: It had a lot of power.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, not really, but it felt like it. It
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: felt like.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: And that was my first overland vehicle. Oh cool, and
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: my first trip and it was from Johannes Spoot to Harari.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, you drove back home with it. Incredible. You
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: got to show your dad your new car.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And I thought that was so cool in it.
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  Speaker 2: Of course you were, you were.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Exactly. So that was my first overland vehicle. And about
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: four months after I got my license, I was visiting
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Horari visiting family and one of my dad's friends asked
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: me to drive a Series two land Rover from Perrari
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: to Barra. Oh wow, which I did, and yeah, that
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: was quite an experience.
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  Speaker 2: What did you learn from that first forward drive trip?
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  Speaker 3: You know, I was a little bit young to actually
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: you know, remember everything, to be honest with you, but
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  Speaker 3: I remember it was just after the war in Mozabique
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  Speaker 3: and we actually drove in convoy with the Zimbabwe Defense
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: Force SURE for protection. And you know, at that stage
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  Speaker 3: the roads were all damaged, but the bridges were still intact,
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  Speaker 3: so you had a you know, one foot sort of
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: climb up onto the bridges and you couldn't do a
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: decent speed, so you've really had to go slow. But
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: the land rover sort of left a mark on me
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: because the steering wasn't great. You had to you know,
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: nine o'clock three o'clockets all the time just to keep
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: it going straight. And then you'll stop every two and
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  Speaker 3: a kilometers to check the world. Yeah, things like that.
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  Speaker 2: It's like any good relationship, and I think that's maybe
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  Speaker 2: why we love land rovers is that it is it
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: is a relationship. You got to make sure you're paying attention.
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  Speaker 2: You got to make sure you're communicating with the vehicle,
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  Speaker 2: checking you know, checking things out.
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  Speaker 3: It's exercise. That's right, that's right.
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  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. Oh, that's what an incredible journey
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: that that would be. I mean, so many of the
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: people that I've talked to in Southern Africa, those are
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: their first memories. We're in a series land Rover, and
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: it's not it's not too far off from me either,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: because when I was growing up, you know, looking at
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: a national geographic or looking at the Mutual of Omaha
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: while Kingdom, or on the television or whatever, that's what
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  Speaker 2: you saw. You saw a series land Rover, you know,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: stopping and taking photographs of an elephant or whatever. And
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: for Americans, not only Southern Africa, but particularly where you
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: live now in South Africa, it is a place that
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: so many want to visit. And you've been sharing with me.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: This isn't a goal to necessarily promote your business, but
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: the way that you describe how you work with people
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: that are coming to South Africa, I'd like to work
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: through that process with you on the podcast to help
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: people think. So, you know, think of a young couple
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: they're living in Seattle, in Washington, and they both so
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: desperately want to come and see Africa. This is the
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Garden of Eden, and in my mind, there is no
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: place else on Earth like Southern Africa, despite its challenges,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: because with any great or incredible place, there's also going
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: to be the in in the end, there's going to
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: be challenges that come with it. But that's part of
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: the reason why it's still accessible, it's still inexpensive by comparison,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: is because of those challenges. So a young couple they're
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: looking to come to Africa and they reach out to
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: you to say, Hey, we'd like to hire a high
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: lux and we'd like to go see Southern Africa. What
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: would be the first things that you'd ask them.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: So what I normally do is I try and I
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: try and engage what sort of experience they have if
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: it's there, you know, I figure out that it's their
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: first trip and they haven't actually you know, used a highlight,
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: slept on a rooftop tent. I try and be honest
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: with them and sort of give them a realistic sort
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: of vision of what it's going to be like. Because
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: the last thing you want to do is have an
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: unhappy person sleeping a rooftop tent and comftably.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: You know, it can also be dangerous one.
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  Speaker 3: It could also be dangerous. So I try and find
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: out what sort of experience they have, and then I
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: give them a realistic sort of picture of what to expect.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: And then I also try and find out what their
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: aim is in visiting Africa. You know, so in Johannesburg
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: you can go and do a lot of historical things
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: from a part eight years or you can go to
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: Kruger National Park and see the bush and then you know,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: in the wildlifees and everything. You could also go to
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: our neighboring countries quite easily, like go and see the
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: desert in Namibia, or you could go and see the
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: camp in the wild in Botswana.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And it's easier to get to those countries than people
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: realize because the roads in South Africa for the most part,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: are very very good. The recent trend towards these coal trucks,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I think is going to create some issues for the country,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: but I'm sure they'll figure that out. They'll get more
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: coal going by rail again. But I noticed that in
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: the last drive. But for the most part, you know,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: you're at the Namibian border in a day, You're at
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: the Botswana border in a day, and then you're into
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: these completely different landscapes. And you know, both Namibia and
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Botswana are incredibly safe as well. So so where like,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: let's say that they they want to go and see
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Botswana and they want to go see Namibia, what would
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: you what would you recommend that they bring with them?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: What should they have in their own kit that they're
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: going to bring over?
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: So pretty much pretty much arrange everything except your personal items,
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: your food and your clothing, I mean your food and
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: your cold drinks drinks. But I also help with that
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: also because obviously they're arriving in this strange country, they
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: don't know where to go to shop and everything. So
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: generally we would help him do their shopping. Also, all
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: make recommendations.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: I'll actual they know what bill tongue is.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, make sure they know what bill tongue is. All
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: of us so good, yeah, so good.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: And whoever's had beef jerky, this is like beef jerkey
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: times ten.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: So it's so good, so good. So yeah, we'll help
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: him with the whole process because I know what it's like.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: I've traveled overseas and you arrive in a strange place
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: and nothing's familiar and you don't know where to even
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: buy coffee. So I try and take that away that
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: you know, there's also because Africa can sometimes be a
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: little bit disorganized with the bookings and that sort of thing.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: I try and help them through their process or make
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: recommendations and all of this is a sort of add
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: on free service that I do because they are hiring
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: my vehicle, and what I'm trying to achieve is that
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: people build a relationship with me and then they can
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: actually call me if they have any questions along the trip,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: and then I know my vehicle's safe also.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Well for sure. In fact, it was cool the other day,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: which thank you again for letting me borrow the vehicle
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: and use it on use it in South Africa. But
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: just the other day you sent me a WhatsApp and
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: you're like, is everything okay? Because the tracker switched off?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: So it's so cool that you have I mean, you
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: on a high lux in South Africa, you need to
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: have a tracker because they get they're easily stolen, and
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: they're also very desirable for someone to steal. So another
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: reason to drive a land rover. Ye, But so you
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: have a tracker on the vehicle obviously to prevent theft,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: but then you are also able to keep track of
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: where people are at and are they okay or you know,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: have they not moved in a while, or in my case,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I believe you had it where the tracker may be
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: shut off.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So in your case, what happened is that I'll
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: go notification to say that the battery had battery power
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: had been lost, and that's you know, sometimes it happens
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: because there could be a signal issue, or the battery
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: could be quite low, or somebody's actually disconnected the boundary.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: So I was under an overhand maybe that's what it was.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: It could possibly be.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's always good to just send a little
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: to say everything all right, and you kind of then
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: you start darting and stuff and say, well they can
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: you know, if there's a criminal involved here, they can
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: also answer. But then you answered in a specific way
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: that I knew it was you. Yeah, sure, you know,
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: I forget what you said, but I said, okay, no,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: that's definitely Scott. So you know what people also need
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: to realize without sounding negative, there's a lot of desperate
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: people in Southern Africa that need to feed their family,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: and they desperately need to get some sort of form
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: of income, and sometimes that is criminal unfortunately. So I
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: try and provide a little bit of training beforehand, or
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: a little bit of you know, sharing a bit of
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: knowledge what to be careful and careful of, and then
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: also just keep a sort of an eye on you
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: that not that sounds a little bit weird, baby.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: But I think that that's something that people will appreciate.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: They're in a foreign land and they have someone that
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: they trust you enough to take to hire the vehicle
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: from you, and they know that you have an incentive
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: to keep them safe as well. And really, in my experience,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: you know that it's good to be mindful in Johannesburg
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: because there's more organized crime, but once you get out
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: of the big cities then it's really just a crime
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: of opportunity. It's very it's not like you're going to
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: come across bandits on the highway. It's very, very rarely.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I've never heard of it, but it's certainly possible. But
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: you're usually like you leave a camera on the passenger
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: seat and somebody busts the window so it's a good
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: idea to just be be mindful of your personal security.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Everyone that I know that that lives in South Africa
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: has a story and so people have in und challenges
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: for sure. So it's I think it's important to be mindful.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Don't drive at night, yeah, just those basic things that
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: make a big difference.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: But driving at night, there's two reasons for that. But
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: there's obviously the criminal side that you are at risk,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: but there's also you know, there's sometimes animals.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: On the roads badly, or drunks, or people they don't
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: have their headlights on or yeah, one headlight's broken out
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: or whatever.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So so that's all sort of part of
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: the process when I'm preparing someone for a trip, because
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: I get a nice understanding of what they understand. I've
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: just had three lovely Australian ladies that's the first time
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: out of Australia, first time in Southern Africa, and they've
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: just traveled through Botswana in Zimbobwe and they had the
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: most amazing trip. So I also try and mix up
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: a little bit. Of the cape in South Africa is
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: very nice, so beautiful.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: So you go to the Cedarburgh unbelievable.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: It's spectacular. So you go to the Cape, you can
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: have those winelands and the Cedarburgh and all that sort
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: of thing. You can go up to and maybe across
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: two Botswana into Zimboiwive most into Kugan National palking back
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: depending on your tiuel. Yeah, and at least at least
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: a nice sort of round trip where you don't see
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: anything twice.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, the folks from Xoverland were here not
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: that long ago, last summer and they did a big
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: loop like that. So for those that are listening, the
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: x Overlane will be launching their Africa series. But that
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: whole loop that they did you could do with a
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: higher vehicle, and the highlux is really well suited to it.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: It's they're a little bit underpowered, which I believe brings
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: some safety with it, so you don't tend to drive
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: as fast. They tend to handle the load pretty well.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Like this. This truck feels heavy. I don't know what
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: they come in at on weight, but you know that
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: canopy seems fairly heavy, and there's drawers back there and
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: batteries and water tanks and all that other stuff. So
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: they handle the load quite well. And then they're also
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: fairly fuel efficient and quite capable off road, so it's
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: it's kind of a sweet spot. And then they're also
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: not so expensive like a land Cruiser, where you could
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: be spending another couple hundred dollars a day on a rental,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: so they're an affordable rental as well. So is that
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: why you picked I picked them because I.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Mean everybody's I'm a Defender person and I love my
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: old Defenders, but let's be honest, it's a truck. And
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: if you're not used to driving a truck around a
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: very hot climate and bumpy climate, bumpy roads, and that's
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: sort of thing you don't really want to put your
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: your family through that you'd rather than be in a
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: sort of more sort of comfortable vehicle. And I chose
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: the Highluxes because there was a good balance between performance
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: and comfort. And you can have an air conditioner that
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: it works and cools down there, you know, so you
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: don't have to worry about the safety of your children
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: and the banner. So the highlex was and it's also
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: very reliable vehicle. You sure things can break on it,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: it's not it's not indestructible. Things do break, what have.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: You seen a more common failure.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: I've had some minor electrical issues like the window not opening.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: I think you've experienced that. I've also had the air
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: conditioner stopped working. In fact, Christmas Eve this year, I
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: had to drive to a place called Twea Revere And
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: which was about twelve hundred kilometers from Johannesburg, to go
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: and swap out a vehicle because the air conditioners stopped working. Sure,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: and I did that because the couple that had hired
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: the vehicle were from the UK and they were busily
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: going into Namibia in the middle of summer where they're
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: going to sort of have temperatures of forty five degrees
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: forget it. Yeah, they were going to suffer. So I
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: had to do that. But that was an air compressor
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: that just decided it had had enough, you know. And
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: these vehicles are put through some tough conditions. They well maintained.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Toyo to maintain them. Like your vehicle, even though it's
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: not due for service, when you bring it back, it
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: will go straight to Toyota to get a full checkover
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: for full service even though it's not due. Because I
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: don't know what you've done with it. You may have
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: gone through rivers and I don't know that or ges
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: drove it. So anything's possible. So you know, I'm not
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: saying it could have been abused. No, I could, And
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: so I make sure that when the vehicle goes out
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: it's in tough conditions.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: You should put a G force measuring device in your
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: with your trackers so you can know if it takes
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: a big it takes a big hit. So, I mean,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: there are some deep potholes on these roads for sure,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: but I mean toyotas are so well suited for that.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: They really are a nice confluence, like you said, of comfort, capability,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: capacity performance off road. Yeah, they really are a nice
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: combination of that. So when when when you talk about
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: a trip like that, you know Americans don't have a
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: lot of time. So if this young couple says, hey,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I've got two weeks from when they land you know
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: they're going to land in joe Berg to when they
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: got to fly back out again, what route would you
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: typically recommend that people do over about two weeks.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: So it all depends on the individual. To be honest
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: with you, I can have them spend two weeks and
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: only do a thousand kilometers or you can have them
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: do two weeks and do ten thousand kilometers are sure.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: I usually recommend to people that they don't do too much,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: because then you only sort of scrape in the top
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: and you actually don't deep dive down deep into the areas.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Like if you go to Okavango, you want to spend
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: thy four five days in a minute, but a lot
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: of people drive through there.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: It's too bad and it's special.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such a special place, and sometimes you need
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: to wait for nature to come to you. You can't
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: go to nature all the time. And you're driving on
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: this little strip road in thousands of square kilometers of bush,
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: the chances of you seeing line, for example, is very slim.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: But if you kempt in one place for five days,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: you've got a bigger chance of seeing more game because
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: they're going to walk past all there.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I think one of the most incredible campsites that I
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: ever stayed at was there's a small in holding that's
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: managed by the local tribe, and you can get a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: permit and you drive north out of mound, you know,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: several hours and you camp right on this river, and
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: I mean there's like there's elephant coming to drink. There's
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: giraffe that we were sitting around the campfire and I
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: don't know that what little hair I have on the
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: back of my head stood up and I just knew
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: something was off and I kicked my flashlight on and
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: here was a hyena coming closer to the fire. I just,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was beyond incredible to experience. I mean,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: there's just there's absolutely nothing like that. And do you
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: recommend people go to like the Rhino Reserve on the
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: way north? So, yeah, is that Tama? Is that what
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: that's called?
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Tama Rhana Sayingtue. It's a great stop off because it's
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: only about seven hours from Johannaspice, right, It's a good stuff. Yeah,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: And that's it's quite a nice experience because I always
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: recommend people stay. They two knots. A lot of people stay.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: They one A's locals. We genuinely stay. They want not,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: but you miss out. You don't get to see the
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: rhino and from the there's so many different and it
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: all depends on the individual. You know, a lot of
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: people may not even go as far as that. Maybe
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: they may just want to go to Kruger National Park,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: which is really easy and it is, and it's cougar.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Kruger is nice because you can self drive. They have
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: pretty big camp sites and it's a massive park. There's
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: a ton of wildlife in there. It's really easy to
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: see wildlife in there, I found. But then again, the
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: things I didn't like about it is like like in
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: the Oka Wonga, you you shouldn't really get out and
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: wander about, but you can at least get out of
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: your vehicle like in the In the Kruger, they don't
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: lie you out of the car, they don't even why
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: you're rolling your windows down. Yeah.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: The thing is is that you know you're an experienced traveler,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: but there are a lot of people that sort of
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: aren't used to being around wild animals, and you need
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: to sort of protect the crowd. Yeah, for sure, you
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: know the individual. And I've seen photographs people have got
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: out of car to take pictures of lines. Yeah, and lines.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: I mean they'll they'll cover five meters on one second.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: You don't have a chance.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: You don't even have a chance.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, by the time you realize this thing's going to
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: eat you, it's.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Already yes, on top of you, and it happens quickly,
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: and a lot of people don't realize that, so you've
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: got to sort of create these rules to protect people sometimes. Yeah,
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: for sure. But the Delta is I mean is it
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: is really like the.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Garden of Eden. And then from there it would be
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: very easy to head into the capriv or to go
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: into the Kalahati or just there's so many incredible, incredible options.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: What are your if outside of Zimbabwe, in the countries
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: that we just talked about, what would be your top
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: three or four destinations that you think people should see.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Sure, I think everybody needs to see them. Hoddy Pans
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: and Botswana. You know, that's two thousand square kilometers of nothing.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: It's like being on the moon. And there's Kuble Island
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: and then Cokunya Island, which is more deserted. Cooble Island
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: is run by the local tribe there and you pay
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: them for camping in that, which is a great stop over,
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: and it's got these big ground rocks and these Bayo babs,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: and there's also a little bit of history involved there
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: where people think that it's connected to the greats and
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Bibwe ruins because there are ruins on the Kuba Island.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: No one can explain it. They think that it could
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: be you know, initiation site, or it could be a
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: burial site no one actually knows, or it could be
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: a trading route because you've got in Mosubik, you've got Maskanie,
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: then you've got Greats and Bibwe ruins, and you've got
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Kubu and you've got all these ruins on almost a
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: straight line, and no one can really explain why interesting. Yeah,
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: and then you got up and Google in the Popo province,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: you know, right, So it's a really interesting place. But
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: it's also a spectacular place if you want to see
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: stars and the Milky Way. In that area, the air
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: is crystal clear because they're so dry.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: And there's something so neat Bruce about someone that lives
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: in the Northern Hemisphere to look up at the Southern
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: sky because it we don't I mean, I'm not an astrologist,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't know a lot about the sky,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: about the stars. But when I look up at the
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: stars in the Southern Hemisphere, I know I'm looking at
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: something different. It just looks different. And then you find
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: the Southern Cross and then you start to realize, like
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: this is an entirely different.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: View absolutely, and you know, at Coober Island, you can
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: walk out on the pansy because there's no predators at night,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: and if you just lay on the pan on the
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: ground and look up at the stars, you'll actually start
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: seeing different colors in the Milky Way. You'll see the
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: greens and the blues and the aqui kind of colors
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: in the Milky Way, once your eyes get adapted to
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: it and the stars. You know, a lot of people
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: that sort of visit these places also come from cities,
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: so they're not used to this blanket of stars. And
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: you go out there into this pitch dark and you
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: see this crystal clear scar with these amazing stars. It's breathtaking,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: even if you're not interested in astronomy, you know.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Right, I find it to be. It absolutely leaves me breathless.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: It's just absolutely beautiful. And there is so little light
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: pollution in I mean, we're in Johannesburgh, so you don't
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: see many stars here, but it doesn't take that long
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: out of the city and there's really no light pollution
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: at all, and you just you see.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: So much, all right, So so, and if you want
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: to key places, it's a little bit unfair for Namibia.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: In Botswana, but I know there's so many different places,
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: like you could go to the Akaanga. Akavango's always spectacular
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: whenever you go there. When you go to southern Namibia,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: to all the deserts and everything there, it's beautiful.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: They will say, what in southern In Southern Namibia, I
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: haven't other than just driving through on my way to
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: the Transfrontier Park because I'd spent a lot of time
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: in the dunes and the coastal dunes. So and also
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: there's a Tosha, I mean in Namibia. What would be
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: the couple of real with Namibia.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: I genuinely try not to include Namibia with the Botswana
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: trip for a short term two weeks. It's it's too vast.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: If you're going from Johannes Foot to Namobi, I'm back,
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: you must pledge it on six thousand kilometers at least
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: because it is so vast and the distances you travel
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: are hundreds of kilometers, you know. So generally, and Namibi
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: a trip, I try and get people to do it,
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: maybe to go to Namobia then go back to Cape Town, okay,
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: and if they're going to do that over two weeks,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: I'll generally try and get them to stay in southern
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Namobea instead of going up north, because they're going to
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: spend every day driving.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: And it's a big country, surprisingly.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: And generally, and I know certainly in my family, I
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: love to drive. I'll drive all day every day, you know,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: I love exploring and everything. But my wife and my daughters,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: when they were younger, they went on the same page
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: and they didn't really enjoy that as much, you know.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: But it's so good to understand what their needs are too.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, so I would say sudden Namobia pretty much anyway,
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: the canyons of the deserts and everything like that, even
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: up to Volfas Bayatasha, and then you've got Okavango and
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: then Maharikai. There's also central Kalihari, you know. And as
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: I'm talking, I want to mention this place, but I'm saying, okay,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: there's any thing, but there's so many of these great places.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: And that's the truth of it is that we could
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: spend a hundred lifetimes and not see it all. And
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: we're talking about within ten thousand kilometer round trip. You
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: couldn't see it all.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: No, not a lot. And that's why I try and
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: convince people, especially over two weeks to take it easy
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: and just like to slow down a bit. Yeah, you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I see far too many people. They're rushing from point
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: A to point B, to point C to point D,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: and they're actually saying but we didn't even see lines.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: But they didn't even give it a chance to see.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: And then I know some people they've gone up to
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: the Akavanga and they've stayed at like third Bridge, and
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: they've heard lines and seed lines every other day, you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: because they've actually sat and they've waited for nature to
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: come to them.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's such great advice.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Any other considerations like when you when someone is looking
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: to hire a vehicle, what do you think they should
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: be looking for in the company? Any what do you
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: recommend the high Lucks only or there are other options
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: that you think are a good option.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of different options. Now, what I normally
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: do with my clients is that I try and find
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: out they needs. If they don't drink coffee, I don't
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: include a coffee press and a perculator because it just
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: takes up space and weight. But in Africa, we find
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: that a lot of people like instant coffee, but a
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: lot of Europeans that don't like instant coffee. So I
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: cater for overseas people that might have a special taste
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: in coffee. So we'll have a percolator, we'll have a
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: coffee press, and that's you're.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: A wise man.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Wise man, don't mess with people's coffee. I'm telling you.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: If you can get that right, I mean you can
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: even screw up the booze a little bit.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I mean even there's even simple things. If
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: a family is coming and they're coming with kids, I
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: mean even there's big kids that do this also. But
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: we we like to bry barbecue marshmallows. Sure, I don't
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: know if you do that in the state. We do absolutely,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: But the problem is if you're going into the desert,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: you don't find a stick. So I've got special little
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: sticks that extend the marshmallows for the kids. And you
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: know the cause, if the kids are coming, then there's
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: always a bag of watchment that's for the kids. Little
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: things that we've tryed and to do that sort of
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: differentiate us from other higher companies. Yeah, I'd like to
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: consider that we're not really a higher company. Were kind
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: of lending our carts to some friends when it comes.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: It definitely seems that way, Bruce, and I guess it's
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: important for me to acknowledge that and compliment you on it.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Thank you have this business because you love it, not
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: because you need it, And that means that you have
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: a small group of vehicles, you are very cautious who
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: you lend them out to, and you give a lot
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: of personal attention because you have a love for traveling
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: in Africa. So I think that that's very honorable of
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: you because you're helping people to have the experience of
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: a lifetime. Thank you so very cool what you're doing.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: You know, and you'll probably end up with one hundred
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: high leks, but right now you got what six of them?
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Sure? I don't know, you know the guy is that
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: come on, I might end up losing mind I used
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: to hire jeez. I mean, I've actually a friend of
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: mine asked me the other day. He says, how many
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: vehicles would you like? And I said to them three
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: and that was four months ago. I've now got five.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: But in all honesty, I don't want to lose that
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: personal touch because I really enjoy meeting and interacting with people.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: And also people are flying from all over the world
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: to come and use this vehicle, and it's their main
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: means to get to their dream destination. And I want
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: to make sure that this vehicle and this sort of
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: way of getting there is in top condition and there's
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: no surprises and it meets all the expectations, because I
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: would hate to fly eighteen twenty plus hours to a
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: destination and being miserable driving a horrible little car, you know.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: And you really a lot of these bigger companies. I
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: think all of them try really hard, but you just
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: you don't always know what you're going to get.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: So one of the things about your trucks that's very
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: cool is that there's a logo on the door. Now,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: all of your higher vehicles are Toyotas, but because you
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: love land Rovers, there's actually a Modern Defender on the
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: overlanding with Bruce logo on the side of the door.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: So that's our segue into talking about Modern Defenders. And
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I know that you have owned a lot of different Defenders,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Classic Defenders and everything else, and you and I could
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: spend days reminiscing about our love for the brand, but
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I am really interested to talk to you about your
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: experience with modern Defenders, because I do find that.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: For example, my Classic Defender has never failed to start,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: It's never had an issue. I use land cruisers for work,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: and I personally love land rovers and I drive them
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: a lot, and I've never had an issue with a Landover.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: It's never left me stranded. I think a lot of
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: the reliability issues, it's not that they're unfounded, it's just
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: that don't necessarily correlate to a ruined trip. I think
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: that people have issues with land rivers. I think that
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: the air suspension, if it's not kept in good condition,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: can really give you some trouble. But usually it's it's
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: something fairly minor, or it's something electronic. But the modern
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Defender has actually developed quite a good reputation for reliability.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I think land rivers come a long way. So what
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: what inspired you to say, all right, I'm going to
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: stop driving these Classic Defenders and I'm going to buy
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: this new fangled machine. What brought you to that?
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I think I turned fifty and I grew up plan
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, I think the wolves changed. I
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: know it. Certainly. In my lifetime, I've seen a lot
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: of changes in the places that we traveled.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: To.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: You know, places where it used to take us two
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: days to get to you can get to in a
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: day now because the roads have improved so much. And
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: you know, you don't need to be uncomfortable. And my
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: father's got to saying that, he always, and he says,
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: any fool can be uncomfortable in the bush. And I've
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: been driving air suspension vehicles with a Discovery four and five.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: I tried to Discovery five for a short while just
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: before COVID and then, I mean I really liked it.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: There was nothing wrong with it as far as I'm concerned.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: But I also had the three and I didn't ever
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: have some problems with suspension with their suspension. So I
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: think a lot of the problems are brought on by
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: people that don't know how to use it. So for example,
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: I had a friend that could complain that his air
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: suspension kept overheating, and it was actually the pump that overheat.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, And that's common.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And what people don't realize is that the vehicle
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: raises up into a road mode when you press the button,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: but it drops down at fifty five kilometers an area.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: And what people were doing is they're driving on the
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: roads and the road conditions got better, so they sped
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: up and the vehicle would dropped. Then they would have
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: to slow down. The vehicle would raise, and they'll do
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: this the whole day, and eventually this pump would overheat.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: It's exactly like your tire pump how to gets and
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: it would protect itself and go into like a limp mode,
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: you know. So that's actually not a vehicle problem. That's
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: a user problem as far as I'm concerned.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: And then I also know and there's some not to interrupt,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry to interrupt a school of thought, but for
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: those that are listening to help them through that issue,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: one of the best things you can do in that
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: case is there's these little they're called a Johnson rod
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: or there's some other things that you can do and
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: raise the vehicle in all modes slightly. Yeah, because then
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: when you're in normal mode, it's what used to be
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: off road one or whatever, and then the pump isn't
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: running so much absolutely out.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: So you know, I also find that is very seldom
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: where you need to be at offer at high to
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: seventy k's an hour, because if you're doing seventy k's
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: an hour, the road is good condition. Yeah, what's at
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: forty miles an hour?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Usually it's sand tracks, you know, where you got a
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: little bit of a higher center.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah hump. But generally on those sort of tracks, I
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be doing forty fifty miles an hour, you know,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: because you catch a corner rong, you're going to roll
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: the car. Well, you've got a good chance with a
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: load on.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: The roof, or you hit a g out or something
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: Absolutely out. Generally, I find that there is suspension that
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: then you take the new Defender. It's got something like
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: eighty five or eighty six ECUs, and people say, ah,
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: I have one of those fail the car is going
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: to come to stuff. But they don't realize that there's
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of mundane toss that SEUs do, like control
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: the radio, or control the rack, or control the electric
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: window and that sort of thing. But there's also some
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: important things. But what Landrover has done and what gave
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: me a lot of confidence in the vehicle, is that
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: they built in redundency into the ECUs. So they've got
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: up to five back up units okay and e sus
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: that can adapt and back up for the important sus
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: to keep the vehicle going. It's also, after many years
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: of driving these vehicles, the only vehicle that I've had
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: warned me that the battery's live. So it's got a
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: really silly feature that when you open up one of
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: the doors, the dashboard all comes on. But if you're
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: camping for a weekend or a few days, then you
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: keep opening the doors. This is coming on. It's using
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: your battery pass or your battery drains. And what happens
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: that actually makes a storm is it pongs and it
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: tells you better he's start vehicle. And I've never a warning. Yeah,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: and I've never had that in a vehicle. So there's
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: a lot of silly little things like the desh coming
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: on when you open a door, But you can overcome
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: that by leaving the door slaty a job not catching it,
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: so you actually then the system shuts down and it
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: doesn't flatten the bet. That makes sense, you know, So
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: there's there's ways around everything, if I understand.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: So you had Okay, so you had a Discovery five,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to pull in some of the conversation
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: that I had with Kingsley Holgate too. So he had
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: he had a Discovery five that he took to the
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: easternmost point of Africa, which is in Somalia on the Horn,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: literally the Horn of Africa, and he had to use
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: a private military escort or private security escort to get
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: there without getting kidnapped or shot, so guys with guns.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: And he drove these cars seventy eighty thousand kilometers, drove
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: you know them essentially around Africa and never had a failure.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: And he's currently doing He's at forty thousand kilometers on
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: the modern defender going to I mean through Chad, through
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: he went through South Sudan. It's just like the places
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: that he's taking these cars. And the only thing that
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: he had go wrong was a battery died and that
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: was it. Like that's the only thing that's happened to
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: these cars. And when he told me that, it just
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: made me realize, Like, I think that a lot of
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: this anxiety that people have around defenders, I think it
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: comes from either a lack of mechanical knowledge themselves or
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: from just a genuine fear in the possibility that something
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: might go wrong, which is I think is valid. I
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: think it's valid to assume that land rovers are complex,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: they are less reliable than a land cruiser, so there
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: is certainly a greater probability that something will go wrong. Statistically,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: it really doesn't.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think that Landrover, you know, and I've
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: got no affiliation with Landover, but the land Rover have
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: progressed a lot in the nineties. I went through a
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: bad spell as a discovery too, and for sure, and
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: the TV five notes and they went through this bad spell,
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: and I think that sort of gave them a bad
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: reputation and people haven't forgiven them for that. Yeah, and
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: that reputation stuck with them. But there's a lot of
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: good things that they've done on the new Defender, like,
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: for example, all the electrical connectors. I forget the rating,
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: but they are rated to be underwater too, se mean
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: sixty something like that, which I don't think many other
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: vehicles in the market, including the land crews I have.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I wouldn't want to speak to that,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: but I know that the land Rover definitely does. And
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: it's the ceiling of the doors and the amount of
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: weather and water ceiling that they have that allows them
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: to achieve such deep water ratings, if I'm not mistaken. Now,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I've been in some terrifyingly deep water in a modern
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Defender when I did the trip through Namibia with them,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: and I'll post some photos in this episode, but it
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: was up over the bonnet. But I know you've done
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: that recently to talk about how deep was this water
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: that you took the Defender.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: Okay, First of all, I don't condone deep water crossings.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: I genuinely my roo quite unsafe. Yeah, my rule in
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: overlanding is nothing higher than the top of the wheel,
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: and I try and stick to that rule. But what
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: had to happen is my wife and I had crossed
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: this little river crossing and we had got into a
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: section in Marimi where we were game going and the
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: river had risen and when we wanted to come back,
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: it was over way steep, okay, and I had to
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: go and walk the water crossing, as you do, but
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: you've got to be careful because there's crocodiles. There are
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: there's big crocodiles. So I took a spade for protection,
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: false protection, but it did make me feel better, but
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: it's still it wasn't the wisest thing to do, but
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: it was better than driving the car. And I eventually
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: found a shorter crossing, but it was a deeper section
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: for about two meters, and I weighed up the other sections.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: They seemed a little bit looser, but they were longer crossings,
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: and I thought, well, I've got more chance of getting
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: through the shorter one, even if I just get the
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: nose out and I get stuck without the nose from Yeah, exactly.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: And there was a tree had fallen down on the
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: other side, so it would have been a good wenching point.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: And after some assessing, I decided to take this water crossing,
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: and I got my wife to film it. Fortunately, I thought,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: you know, let's make it good. Yeah. Sure, and yeah,
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: the water actually came up on the windscreen. And the
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: only thing that was wrong with the car afterwards is
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: that one of the mud flaps had come loose. Yeah, okay,
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: there was nothing else. I mean, I actually afterwards, I
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: was a little bit angry with myself, but we didn't
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: have a choice for doing a water crossing that deep.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: But the only problem I had afterwards is that one
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: of the mud flaps had just unclipped. I clipped it
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: back then it was fine. Yeah, And in all honesty,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: I think that clip had broken previously, because I haven't
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: had that have them to me since on any water crossing,
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: there was no water that came in the doors, there
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: was no lights, there was no ill effects at all.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: I checked the filter. The filter was totally dry.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: And do you have a snorkel on your shit?
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: I have a snorkel? Raised raised their Entakeyo, you're get
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: in trouble of saying snorkel. I found that out. But yeah,
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: no water got in where And the engine compartment was
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: surprising team and dry, so water hadn't even got in.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: And the Defenders have a really great feature when you
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: put it into waiting mode. People say, well, what's it
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: going to happen when you put it in waiting mode.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: It's got these flaps that close down in front of
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: the radiator. And when you're crossing rivers there's a lot
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: of stuff floating in the river that can block up radiators.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: So these flaps close and actually protect the.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Radiator and it shuts down the fan too, and it
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: shuts down the fan.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: In all days, we used to take a piece of
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: top right and put it over the front. Now of
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: these new defenders, you don't have to do that, you know.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: So what.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Model defender is this that you have now.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: Right now, I've got the D three hundred. It's an
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: HSE so it's a diesel, the diesel three liters year,
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: and it's I mean, it's incredible. It's sort of on
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: a trip. When it's fully loaded, I run out about
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: ten liters per hundred, eleven liters per hundred. But that's
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: really good, which is really good. I'm not sure how
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: to convert at two gallons.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Just good, it's good.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: There's very few four drives in the US that get
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: that kind of a company.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: So, and it's a really comfortable sort of and it's
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: got a lot of power.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of times where you've got narrow roads
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: and you follow these trucks through Africa, you know, and
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: it comes to a very short overtaking place, and you
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: need a lot of acceleration to get to. My old
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: defenders used to sit behind the trucks for days. With
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: these new ones, you've actually got enough power that you
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: can quickly overtake safety and not put yourself at risk.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: And what I noticed about them too, is that it
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: for a stock vehicle, it has one of the finest
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: ride qualities, even better than a range rover. There it
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: just off road, it has one of the one of
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: the best ride qualities of any four drive. A suspension
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: is just you just you get the camp after ten
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: hours of driving on tracks and you're just you're not
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: that tired.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: You actually look forward to driving, you know. And the
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: air conditioner works, not like the old ones. Yeah, the
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: old ones used to cool your knees. I've got that, yeah,
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: so that you cool. My knees are freezing, yeah, and
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: the rest of you are like sweating. So you know,
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: you've got a nice climate controlled, quiet environment. If you've
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: got stuff on the roof, there's going to be a
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: bit of a noise, but generally that's it. There's no rattles.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, the vehicle is actually too quiet sometimes because
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: you have a bunch of keys in your cabiole and
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: then you hear the one key. Guys, then you say,
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: what's rattling, and that's mean you know.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are some things that you can feel a
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: little isolated because it is so quiet and the suspension
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: is so well dampened, and then the steering feels a
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: little artificial because of how it's designed with the electric
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: pumps and everything. So those are some things that you
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: feel a little disconnected from the experience, But over a
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: long journey, it's the reduction and driver fatigue that I
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: think gives you a better experience, and your family shows
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: up happier and less frustrated and everything else like that.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: So you've really only it sounded like you've had a
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: problem with a low battery and a mudflap.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: That's it, and that's it. I had a cracked windscreen,
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: but that was a truck that threw around, but that
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: can happen to It happened to any vehicle.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: And then you had another Defender before that, and did
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: you have any issues with that one?
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: So what actually happened is that with my Discovery New
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Discovery or the Discovery five trade, I wanted to sell
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: it and get the new Defender in twenty twenty, and
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: then COVID happened. Yeah, and I'd sold the Discovery, but
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: the new Defender hadn't arrived. And you know, at that time,
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: we didn't know if the world was coming to the end,
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: so of course, so you know, this big thing called
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: COVID was happening, So I phoned Yaku. Shame the late
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: Jakruz passed away. Now may rest in piece. I phoned
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: them up and I said, listen, would you mind if
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: I cancel? I know you've sold my either vehicle, but
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: I'm a little bit concerned about this COVID thing, you
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: know that's happening. So my vehicle was actually given to
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: somebody else that I had ordered, and I canceled it.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: And then probably about six or eight months later, I thought,
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: well we got one. Laugh anyway, whatever's going to happen
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: in the world, But.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: It isn't that a land or everything?
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: One life of it? Yeah, Actually, and then I founded
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: up and I said, you know, have you got another vehicle?
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: And they had a demo model pretty much exactly the
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: same as i'd ordered, and I thought that it was
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: a D two fourty. So it was the two hundred
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: horsepower I think pet diesel motor and it was great.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, I travel not the one that you can
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: fit the eighteen inch wheel on.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, I actually imported some eighteen inch wheels.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: A company in the UK makes compromotes with wheels. Those
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: are nice, yeah, And I traveled most.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Of Southern Africa like that, and any issues with that via.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: Not at all. And I'm just trying to think, you know,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: same battery warnings, but apart from that, no no issues.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: And I've got dual battery systems. And I actually saw
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: some ideas from some of the Ouzie guys and I
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: made a little draw system with the table in the
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: back of the fridge and everything. So it's everything I need.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: And you know, and so you're with this new one.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: You're just happier with the power plant, Yeah, because it's
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: a very I mean, they're I mean, they're so similar
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: other than the engine.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, when you're driving the D two footy
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: at one hundred kloons is now fully loaded, maybe towing
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: something like that, you feel like you're driving a little
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: bit hot. With the D three hundred, you don't even
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: feel like you're driving.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: I do remember that when we drove the Defenders in Namibia,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: it was actually just before COVID, you know, I left
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: just as COVID was kicking off. But we went and
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: we went did Venzel's Pass and a lot of der roads,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: and I intentionally kept trying to drive the diesel because
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I wanted to get a sense for the rest of
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: the world vehicle. And it wasn't a powerhouse, that's for sure.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: It was to me it was more than adequate. I mean,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: I drive a three hundred TDI Classic Defender, So yeah,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: a rocket ship you've heard of that. But no, I
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: mean I think that overall, most people that are having
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: little errors come up, they usually clear on a key cycle.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: I just haven't seen people have a lot of issues
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: with it. But again it's I don't I also don't
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: want to misrepresent the fact that there is a greater
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: likelihood that something would happen with a land Rover but not.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: But it's not.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: It's certainly not the fire brimstone and doom and gloom.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: You know, touchwood. I haven't had any issues, and I
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: think that I would like people to also realize that
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: you always hear and read about negative things that happen,
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: you never read about the positive.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: And I think that in the first year, if I
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: remember the figures correctly, in twenty sixteen, when they stop
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: production of the old Defender, I think they sold twelve thousand,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: and the average at about sixteen thousand. Excuse me, there's
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: a fly flat. Okay, I think that average at about
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: sixteen thousand per year for the last ten years or
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: something like that. When then you Defender came out in
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty, which was COVID. Yet they sold sixty four
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: thousand if I remember correctly, in their first year.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: They'd become incredibly part could Yeah.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: So you know, with those kind of sales figures, if
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: you're reading twenty fifty complaints on the internet, it's actually
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: not really a lot if you take a big a
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: picture of what's being sold out there, the volume that's
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: been so. I mean, I've got a locally, we've got
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: a new Defender WhatsApp group where we sort of stay
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: in contact and we sort of give each other hence
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: and help each other out and you know, share sort
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: of advice and that sort of thing. And there's been
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: a couple of minor issues, but in all honesty, I
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: don't think anyone's been left where they need to tow
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: their vehicle. The one guy did have a coolant leak,
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: and as a safety precaution, they towed the vehicle, But
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: he didn't have to tow the vehicle. Yeah, he could
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: have just kept popping it up. Yeah, he actually arranged
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: for the vehicle to be totalll Lando arranged for him
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: to have the vehicle toad just in case. But if
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: that happened in deep dark Africa where there's no civilization around.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: He could have actually drive and that an every few
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: kilometers check the water level.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Well that makes me think of again, like what Kingsley
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: has done. You know, hundreds of thousands of kilometers in
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: these modern land Rovers Disco five new Defender and they've
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: just not had any issues. It's pretty absolutely, pretty incredible.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: So what do you think of that one thirty? By
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: the way, I'm curious.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: I'm a ching for one.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I think it's my favorite. Yeah, I now have come
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: and and it's it's so unfortunate because the one ten
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: is so magical. But I've now I'm like, either it's
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: got to be a one thirty or it's got to
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: be a ninety. It's like somehow I've like like abandoned
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: the one ten. You know.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: My problem is that I've done a lot of mileage
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: with that one ten, and it's it's kind of like
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: cheating on my life. Well message for the for the
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: for a different model, or it's still something I would
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: probably consider. I think if if I had I like this.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: I like the way that it looks, and I like
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: that little bit of extra space because I like to
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: sleep inside the cars, so for me, it would be
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: just right.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: So for me, if money wasn't a question and I
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: could pretty much build my dream overland vehicle, it would
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: be a one tity with a pop up roof.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, who's doing that?
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: I don't think anyone's.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Doing Oh so you've figured out make a plan.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd buy one with a Sundays take the Sundary
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: fats and there's the whole tickets there, you know how cool?
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: But obviously you need to have quite a big budget
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: for something like that. Sure, but it would be an
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: amazing vehicle like that.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: And then what else? What else do you find or
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: do you recommend for or what are the modifications that
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: you've done to your Defender one ten?
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, so the only modifications is I changed my tires.
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: I put bier food Rich alter In tires on it
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: because they've got a slightly tougher side wall, and I
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: also liked the aggressive tread pattern on them. I've put
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: an auxiliary or dual battery system in it.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Where is the battery stored?
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: The battery store under the back floor. So if you've
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: if you've got the diesel or the petrol Defender, you
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: lift up the rear floor board. There's a lot of
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: space under there for tools and a speare battery, so
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: my batteries in there, and.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: It's a simple you use a lithium or to use
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: a normal.
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: Deep cycle battery. I still lithium probably would be better, slighter,
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: but they're about four times a price and the old
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: system still works perfect fine, So you know, I don't
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: know if it's really worth spending that kind of money
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: on the new lithium, although it's a very good system.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: And then I use the National Lunar DC to D
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: GELL battery system. Sure, and I've been using National Lunar
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: I mean no affiliation with them. I use their fridges
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: and their Gell battery systems and lights. I've been using
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: them for twenty years and I haven't had an issue.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: I had one bridges run forever.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had one issue with a fridge. We came
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: back from Coober Island and I noticed this white, sticky
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: stuff in the bottom of the fridge and I thought
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: maybe it was milk or something. It's spilt. I cleaned
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: it up, and I always leave my fridge open after
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: a trip so they don't smell inside. A few days later,
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: I went back and there's some more there, and I
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: cleaned it and it came up again. So eventually I
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: phoned National Luna and this is what blew my mind away.
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: At that time, the fridge was about three years old,
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: and I said, and listen, I've got this happening with
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: the fridge, and I'm not quite sure. Maybe it's ghastlyaking.
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: I know nothing about fridges, you know. And so the
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: guy that I spoke to, he said, well, please bring
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: the fridge in and I got there and he looked
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: at it with big eyes. He says, I've got to
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: keep this fridge, and I said, well, you're going to
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: keep it as my fridge, he says, And he gave
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: me a brand new fridge. And what they did is
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: they cut it open and there's I think there's a
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: foam inside that hadn't cured properly and that was leaking
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: through it. But after three years of ownership, okay, my
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: fridges are well looked after, he replaced it with a
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: brand new one. Credible. That was the only time I've
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: ever had an issue with a National Lunar product, and
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: I've been a loyal customer of there since then.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're they're made in South Africa. They have a
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: proper engineering team. You know, they're DC to DC. They
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: have solar input. Yeah, they're really it's all quite good. Baligant.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: So you've got national lunar fridge, dual battery system, a
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: GM style battery. Do you have a drawer system in
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: the back. I've got a draw system.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: It's a single draw because normally when I just go
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: with the vehicles me alone, I'm lucky. I travel a
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: lot for business, so I do a lot of trips
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: on my own. Lucky, I'm lucky. I don't know what
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: just call it, but it's a very basic system that
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: I keep my kitchen stuff and some food supplies, some
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: luxuries like cool drinks and stuff like that. And then
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: next to it, it's got a fridge that slides out,
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: with a table underneath the fridge that slides out. So
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: very basic system. And then I've put a bigger light
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: on the back which works for the auxiliary battery so
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: you don't flatten the main battery and the defender. And
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: then apart from a couple of OEM accessories, that's it.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've put an easy on roof rack on it.
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: I had the OEM roof rack, but it's it's got
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: plastic end but and the slits are quite far apart,
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: so it's very difficult to put wood on top of
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: there and everything. So I tested out to an easy
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: one wreck and I just haven't gone back.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Since it's it's I like how their slats go forward
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: and back because she can actually sleep on it pretty
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: easily too.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: And you know, I'm a big heavy guy, and when
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: I walk up there, it doesn't flix and it doesn't
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: feel like it's going to break. And I came up
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: with this thing. I was joking with a friend the
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: other day. I said, if you want to test the
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: roof wreck, if it's a rock for you, take a
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: piece of wood like you would buy on this side
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: the road and just throw it on the roof wreck.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: If it damages your roof, you And with the wreck
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: I've got now that easy one wreck, you can't damage
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: the roof, you know.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: So those are pretty minimal modifications I do. I do
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: think that that it speaks to the capability of the defender.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: It is very case. It's not a rock rawler. You
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: can't compare it to a jeep rubicon or something like that.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: But for most travel backcountry roads, it's perfect. It's just
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: got more like again Benzel's pass. It felt like I
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: could have put cruise control on. Yeah, it was just
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: really effortless. The vehicle had such an easy time of it.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: What tell me about what was your most ambitious trip
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: that you've done with one of these defenders.
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: Sure, I don't I wouldn't say ambitious, but I've done
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of trips where I've done a lot of
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: solo traveling through Zimbabwe where I went to the most
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: northerly point, and then I traveled through the Zambizi Value
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: on sort of old back in the seventies when Rhodesia
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: at that time was at war, they had this track
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: that sort of went to the whole of the Zambezi
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: Value that they did patrols on. So I drove that
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: entire track. And what's very interesting about that is there's
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: places where you can go see fossilized dinosaur footprints and
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: stuff like that, which is edible, incredible, and no one
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: knows about it. I actually covered them a little bit
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: on my YouTube channel. Sure not to advertise my YouTube channel.
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: You can talk about that.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about that in a minute. Yeah.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Sure, he's unexpected to be professional because it's probably the
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: least professional.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think your stuff is great. It's very authentic
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: and genuine.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: So I've done a lot of trips like that. I
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: went to the Eastern Highlands and Zibobbie, which was amazing. Also.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: I mean you've got these massive waterfalls with these pools
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: at the bottom where you can go and swim and
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: it's crystal clear water and you can camp right next
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: to them. There's no one there. Yeah, And I think
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: that's where were lucky in Southern Africa. You've got all
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: these different sort of types of areas that you can
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: go to, and you can pretty much go to them
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: within a day or two. You can go from the
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: hottest desert to the coldest mountaintop within a matter of
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: ours in some cases.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: Incredible.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, so how do people find out about
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: your higher company? How do they find you? On that?
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: So pretty much everywhere it's Overlanding with Bruce. I have
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: a website where it's still very new.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: Is it overlanding with Bruce dot com?
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, correctly, it's still very new. It's only about four
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: or five months old. So the plan is that when
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: I get more customers and I get more pictures, I'll
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: share more pictures of their trips there, sure, you know,
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: without invading on people's privacy. Sure, yeah, so that people
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: can sort of see what to expect and what I've
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: done the YouTube channel. I've never really started to try
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: and start a business. The business came from the YouTube channel.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: If that makes sense. Yeah, sure, So I'm going to
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: try and do more of experienced videos where I show
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: you what you can expect by going to a certain area. Sure,
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: if that makes sense, Yeah, it does make sense, and
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: hopefully we can provide a really nice solution for people
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: to come and live out their dreams dream trips.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well you're doing it. I mean you help you
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: help me achieve a dream of spending I have met
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Kingsley Hallgay before, but you helped to support me going
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: to the Africa House is home on the Indian Ocean
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: and spend a couple of days with him and his
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: lovely wife Sheila, and do an interview with Kingsley. So
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: thank you for making that possible. You're very welcome on
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: Instagram you're overlanding with Bruce. Yeah, and then your YouTube
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: channel is the same and Facebook. All right, so that
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: people can find it. If you were to give a
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: couple pieces of advice, maybe you pick your twenty year
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: old self, maybe you pick a brand new overlander. What
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: are a couple of things that you tell them?
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: Sure, if I was twenty years old now, I wouldn't
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: be so responsible to make more risk. Maybe I would
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: take more risk.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: I kind of I grew up in a very traditional way,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: so there was expectations. Not that they were enforced on me,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: it's just kind of I grew up like that, so
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: I kind of expected when I was twenty I needed
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: to go to the army in South Africa, which was
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: we had to at that time. And then you know,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: after that final job, and then started laugh, you know.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: And I think, if I had to be twenty years
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: old or so, certainly do this and say this to
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: my daughters, as I say, take more risk and go
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: for more adventures and everything works out in the end.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: Don't worry about that paycheck. Then have fun and experience
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: all these beautiful places. I mean, I went to Thailand,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: took my family to Thailand four years ago for the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: first time, and it blew their minds, you know. And
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: I would I would highly recommend that two year olds,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: put it back back on and just hit the road.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: You know, you're going to learn a lot about yourself.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: You're going to learn about a lot about the world.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: It'll change your perceptions of the world. It'll show you
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: that you don't need all the fancy things. You don't
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: need expensive stuff to be happy. We need experiences, we
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: need time spent with the people that we love, the
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: people that we care about. Well, that's great advice, Bruce.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate it, and thank you so much
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: for spending the time on the podcast today. Thank you,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: thank you for being an advocate for modern land rovers.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: I think that we're going to see more and more
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: of them being used, and we are already starting to
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: see more and more of them being used because the
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: boogy the Boogeyman isn't quite what people thought it was
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: going to be.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: But I would like to ask that if anyone does
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: have problems, please don't contact me and blame me for it.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: I can speak from mikes exactly exactly.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you again, Bruce, and we thank you all
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.