Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 337: How to Pitch Your Screenplay or Film Idea with Stephanie Palmer

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BPS 337: How to Pitch Your Screenplay or Film Idea with Stephanie Palmer · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
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Episode number three thirty seven. Cinema is a matter of what's in the
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frame and what's out. Now, more than ever, we need to talk
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to each other, to listen to each other and understand how we see the
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world, and cinema is the best medium for doing this. Martin Scorsese broadcasting
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from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on
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that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
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business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's
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covermiscreenplay dot Com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host Jason Buff. Today,
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I'm going to be talking with Stephanie Palmer of Good in a Room dot com.
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Now. Stephanie is an amazing person to talk to, not only because
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she teaches people how to pitch their films and to pitch their projects, but
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also because she used to work. She's an insider. She used to work
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in the studio system for MGM and for Jerry Brookheimer and was there listening in
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on all these phone calls and things. And she doesn't talk about, you
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know, necessarily anything that she heard that's bad, but she really has an
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insider's perspective of how studios work, and how people get hired for films and
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people get hired for screenwriting gigs, and just she really knows how it all
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works. So it's really amazing to talk to her. So the first thing
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that I want to talk about is, you know, you discussed how your
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first job when you got into LA was working as an intern on Titanic.
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Yeah, And one of my questions was, how did you actually get that
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gig? How did I mean, because there's a lot of people who are
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just moving out to LA looking for, you know, any way to kind
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of get in. I was curious about that. Sure, Well, my
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I went to Carnegie Mellon University and my major was theater directing. In my
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college advisor his name was Greg Lahane. He was a theater director and film
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director and TV director, and so all the way through college I thought,
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oh, I am only going to do theater. I am committed to the
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theater. I'm going to create arts. I have no interest in the Hollywood,
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you know. But Greg Lehane was really smart and he said, scept
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me you are. You would be foolish to ignore Hollywood without even trying.
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And he was like, you have the right temperament for it, which in
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retrospect, I'm not sure that that's the compliment, but he said, you
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really, you really need to try before you just miss it out of hands.
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And so through him he there were other college interns who had interned for
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this producer in Los Angeles, and so he helped me connect with the producer
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so that I interned over my winter break of senior year of college. And
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it just so happened. I totally lucked out because the day that I arrived
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for my internship, the producer was brought onto Titanic, which it just started
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shooting because it was a troubled production, if you remember, so they were
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bringing on additional producers to try and get the movie in shape, and so
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I just was in one day on the biggest movie, you know. So
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he just kind of looked out I did. It was amazing. Were you
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ever on set? Did you see me shooting James Cameron and all that?
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Oh? Yes, I am in retrospect, this was stupid of me,
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but I They sent me, the innocent looking, little, you know,
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college student from Iowa to drive boxes of material that I was not to open
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over the Mexican border because they were shooting in Mexico, and so I was
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off and running whatever materials I don't know what they were, from Los Angeles
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to the set in Mexico. And then I also got to stay and be
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in the production office with the producers, with Jim Cameron, with the whole
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team. It was really amazing. And I mean you the coolest thing was
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that when I arrived the first time, it was at night and they were
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shooting, and when you drive, you sort of like crested this hill and
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then you saw the entire Titanic ship all lit up at night. But then
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when you're actually on set, only one side of the ship, of course,
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is actually built, and the whole reverse side is construction site, you
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know, with the scaffolding and construction elevators and extras, all speaking Spanish,
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you know, playing cards and drinking folk and smoking cigarettes in their period costumes,
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you know, behind the scenes. And what was James Cameron like like
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gues he just like frantic on the set or was he pretty cool? Well,
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he wasn't cool in the sense of like, hey, who were you,
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Stephanie, Let me get I don't know who you are. No,
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he was not friendly in that way, but he was totally in control.
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I mean I did see a few I did witness a few outbursts, not
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only from him, but from other people on me set and from some of
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the actors who were upset by how things were going, because it really was
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a pretty crazy shoot, and there were weather issues and people were getting injured,
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and money was spiraling out of control. It was just a giant there
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were. There were a lot of factors going on at that time. But
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my goal was to basically sponge in as much information as I could and who
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lit there in the production office, and be able for whatever was needed and
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figure out what needed to happen, but not to cause any issue myself,
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of course, and so I pretty much was invisible until called upon, and
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then I figure out whatever the issue was and solved. Was there anything that
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surprised you that you weren't expecting? I mean, do you have some sort
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of idea or vision of how a film set worked. I think, well,
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I had never been on the film set before, but I think my
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expectation was that Hollywood, like my negative stereotype, was that these were a
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lot of pretty flaky people who were just obsessed with money and not really focused
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on creating a great compelling story. And what I found was that people were
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incredibly hard working and really smart and really dedicated and were using all of their
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creative facility to do the best job that they could, you know, at
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all levels of anyone that I came in contact with on the set. And
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so it was it was an awakening or surprise to me for just how smart
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and creative and interesting the people weren't. And that was totally what convinced me.
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Oh wait, I'm being stupid here. I thought, you know,
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only smart people were in theater. That was a dumb idea of mine.
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But you know, maybe I should open my mind to this possibility. And
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I love the pace. I loved the just how exciting it was. And
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I mean, you're working on such a giant scale that you're never going to
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get to do something like that in theater. So that was right. Yeah,
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but that's funny, you know. It's like, yeah, literally working
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on the biggest film at that point ever made, or at least I mean,
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I don't know there was the biggest ever, but it was certainly a
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budget of more than two hundred million dollars, which was yeah, well most
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accounts, and at the time he stopped making the biggest flop that had ever
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been made. Oh really, Oh yeah, I mean it was. It
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was such a troubled movie that everyone thought, oh there was a lot of
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chatter going on behind the scenes. Right, So then you move from there
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to working with Jerry Bruokhreimer's there and how did that end up happening? What
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did you transition into there? So then I was a development assistant. I
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was an assistant to the president of development and production. And I also got
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that job basically through other people I knew through college who had heard and who
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I met with, you know, who knew that I did a really good
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job at my internship, so they knew that I could deliver, and so
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I started there as an assistant and that also was just a terrific opportunity where
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the best part of the job was that I got to listen in on every
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phone call, or almost every phone call, which is one of the weird
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things about Hollywood, where producers and executives and directors and writers are all talking
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on the phone as if they pretend that their assistants are not listening in,
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but they all have assistants who are listening in. We'll be right back after
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a word from our sponsor, and now to the show. And so it
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was my job to make sure that anything that my boss said was followed through.
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You know, if he said, Okay, we're going to send us
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over, we're going to fix the script this way, we're going to make
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a meeting with so and so and so and so, that I would know
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that. It was just my job to follow up on anything that he said.
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So I needed to listen in and it was an amazing, amazing education
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to really see how deal they're done, and who's pitching you and who's you
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know, who gets the attention of the movie star or the agency president or
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the whoever you know, whoever the investor, whoever they needed to get their
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attention. I really got to listen in on at the highest level of how
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those deals were being made. Right, and so, what what year was
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that that you moved that you've worked at And that was nineteen ninety eight,
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Okay, so that was just after Don Simpson had passed away, right,
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Yes, he had passed away. His brother was still working there and his
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assistant and a lot of the people who worked with Don were still working there,
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but he had passed away by the time I started working there, right,
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So, the the shenanigans that had been going on there kind of it
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was I assume they. Yes, like there were a lot of people who
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knew, you know what, had worked there during that time. But Jerry
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is not that way. You know. It's not like Party Central or any
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of that sort of stuff. It's various business. And so that was that
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was what it was like. And I was there for Conyer, armagedd and
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Enemy of the State. Okay, so you were you privy to any of
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the conversations with Michael Bay Oh yes, I mean the hundreds, like every
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day, anything that anything that you can like share with us, not not
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anything you know, juicy or lift it, but I mean, uh,
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is there anything you can share about it? Well? He was exactly as
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you would expect. I mean, I remember though often my job was like
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driving his car around, which is of course worth more than my entire networth
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you know, times rezillion, you know, or I gass with his car
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and things like that. You know, he was extremely focused on work.
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He I think the thing that struck me is that even though he has such
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you know, testosterone popcorn movies, he's not approaching it in any way as
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a joke or as like, eh, this is kind of trashy commercial movies.
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That is not his That is not the way he's approaching it. He's
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he is he understands that that's the movie that he's making, but he is
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going to use all of his talents to make it the most amazing explosion.
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And how can we beat the most amazing explosion that we've ever made, you
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know, it's ever been captured on the film in the history of film.
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Or how can we make this the most insane adrenaline rush? And he's he
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is so focused on that right now? Is that world pretty isolated? I
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mean, are the people that are getting in and pitching is that primarily agents?
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Or is that how do you get into that world? You know,
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are there people that are pitching that are just screenwriters off the street, or
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we're pitching who are lone screenwriters, But almost all have been recommended, almost
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all are represented and frankly represented at one of the top four agencies, and
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particularly they, I mean, you pretty much have to be represented and already
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have established credits before you're getting into somewhere like Jerry Bruckheimer or Michael Bay's company,
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just because they get so many submissions that they can be extremely selective,
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and so they're going to just spend time with like the most filtered, the
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most you know, the cream of the crop, because already that's so much
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more than you can even deal with. Right, Okay, now, let
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me talk about writing for just a second, because I know you've worked a
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lot with screenwriters and everything. You know, one of the things that we
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you know, and I'm a screenwriter, and we talk to people who screen
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are screenwriters at both the studio level and people who do more independent films,
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more genre pictures like horror movies and stuff like that. Now in your experience
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when you're you know, you're you're meeting screenwriters who are writing at the very
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highest level. How what is usually the process? Do they typically have,
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for example, a screenplay that they write that they submit that gets like attention
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from an agent, or they get a project and an agent like finds them
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after they've already gotten some attention and the screenplays that they're writing, are they
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just like completely original and great or do they follow more of the genre?
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Are they more like what's the word I'm looking for, like like following a
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template or like yeah, yeah, kind of I mean, I think more
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like cookie cutter. Can you know it's a complicated question, but you can't
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understand what I'm saying. Well, let's let's because I think you're asking a
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couple of different things. So one, it sounds like, how do they
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get an agent or how do you get an agent? Sounds like one question
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that we could certainly dive into because I've helped lots of people get agents and
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we can talk about that. But then also if your goal is to sell
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a screenplay to a studio and you know, get in the writer's guild,
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make a one hundred thousand for the script that's sold her more, of course,
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hopefully you know how do writers do that? Does that sound? Yeah?
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Both those? Okay, those those are the questions. Okay, Well,
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I would start with the agent question, and that is the main way
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that agent find new clients is through referral, and that deferral can come from
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a manager, which is something that I recommend for most writers, not everybody,
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but most writers to focus on getting a manager before getting an agents because
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there are there's a lot of overlap between what a manager and an agent does.
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But managers generally are more approachable, They are more interested in a long
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term relationship where they're going to focus. They're going to nurture the client,
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work with the more on the draft, talk about Okay, here's your different
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ideas. This one seems like the best next step. Let's focus on this
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one, work with you to develop it, and then launch your career and
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hopefully be with you over the long call and managers typically have ten to twenty
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clients, whereas an agent will have one hundred to one hundred and fifty clients,
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So they just don't have the time to do that sort of nurturing,
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nor frankly, do they have the interest or skill most of them, so
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they are much more focused on making the deal, sort of like the very
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end of the process. That both have value to bring to the table in
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most cases, but they do have somewhat different role, and so getting a
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manager first is my recommendation for most people. And most managers will then say,
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Okay, you know, Jason, it's been terrific to work with you.
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I know exactly. You should either meet with this agent or this agent.
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They would love your kind of material. They specialize in this genre.
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You know. They hook it up so that you meet both agents and then
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you choose who you like the most. That's the most frequent way. Other
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ways that agents signed clients is through referrals from their current clients because they know
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that if you've enjoyed working with them, you're delivering, you're getting paid,
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that you likely have friends who are also like that, and so they will
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trust your saying. You know, if you, Jason are represented at William
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Morris Endeavor and you say you're agent, agent, I have this friend Stephanie,
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she wrote this amazing thriller. You should read it. That the agent's
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much more likely to read it and say, oh, yeah, you know,
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Stephanie seems interesting, or vice versa. Agents generally do not accept query
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letters or any sort of direct approach. It's much more like they are expecting
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that you have built a professional network of people to be able to get a
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referral, because that skill set of meeting people, connecting with them, wanting
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to work with them, collaborate with them is a skill that is so essential
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to continuing to get hired over and over again that that's like the kind of
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like the threshold of where agents will consider people. So the direct approach rarely
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ever works. That usually people just are ignored or say, you know,
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we don't accept them slicit submissions, or we're not interested because they're looking for
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people to come in by referral, by personal referral. Okay, but that
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doesn't have to be It may seem overwhelming, but it actually can happen pretty
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easily. If it can happen quite quickly. There are lots of examples of
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people who are through quite casual connections that's gotten agents. It's just not going
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to direct. Here's my sending you a letter, here's my script, please
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represent me. That virtually never works. Right, you have to be in
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LA do you think too? I mean this, it really helps. It
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is not required. There are examples of people who who get agents remotely.
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What is required, Well, if you want to be in TV, it
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is absolutely required. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
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and now back to the show. To do film, especially independent film,
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it's it's not as required, especially if you can develop a network of people
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that you're working with in wherever you live and one of them may be represented
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by someone in Los Angeles, or if you can make connections online which obviously
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are doing so well. It you know, those hurdles can be overcome.
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But even in film, you really benefit from having meetings in person. So
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say, taking a trip to Los Angeles at least once a year, or
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if you have to get representation to say okay, I'm going to be here
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every other month so I can take meetings is a lot. Rarely does a
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script cell without having an in person meeting. I mean very rarely, hardly.
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I don't know that I can even think of an example, but I'm
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sure it's happened at some point, you know. So it really happens based
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on an in person meeting. So you have to be available to meet with
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the people who are potentially going to buy our script, say okay, yes,
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we can work with you, we we can collaborate. I see that
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this is a you know, someone that we can work with. That that
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I mean, maybe something's happened over Skype or something due to some extenuating circumstances.
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But so much of Hollywood is based on in person meeting so much.
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Now, one of the things somebody had told me, who also you know,
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has been a writer for the studios is that they really don't want you
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know, they want very very original screenplays. Most of the time, they're
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not looking for you know, your average like something that's more I hate to
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say cookie cutter, but you know, or more just like straight up you
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know, action flick or whatever is is that your experience or is that kind
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of not true? I wouldn't say it that way. I mean I would
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say that if you look at it's more. I guess the question of how
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you would categorize the kinds of studio movies that are coming out right now.
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You know, if you're saying, if you look at the last you know,
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the year of twenty fifteen and the top one hundred movies that are fifty
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or twenty that have come out of the studios, would you say that those
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scripts are original or cookie cutter? You know, like we might have a
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difference. You would say cookie cutter, okay, than cookie cutter is what
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they're looking for. Like you can see, I don't know that I would
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use that term personally, but that's okay. It's more worth how you define
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it because the answer is what people the movies that are coming out, that's
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what people are buying, right well, I guess what I mean is more
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like the superhero movies and stuff like the big movies that are coming out they're
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all kind of you know, most of them follow a pretty similar formula,
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you know, And you're talking about the ones that are based on other materials,
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like based on comic book, right right, Yeah, based on book,
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based on other material Yeah. I can't think of a whole lot that's
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not based you know. It's like every movie that I see in the theaters
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now is is some some like derivative, you know, it's like based on
23:23
a movie, or it's a remake of another movie. Yes, you know,
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it just doesn't seem like they're taking any risks anymore. This is this
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is the way that studio filmmaking is going. This is why there's such a
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huge opportunity in independent filmmaking and why so many sort of better movies or things
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I would say are better movies are coming out of independent world. And part
23:45
of that is because there aren't any pure film studios anymore. MGLA is the
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last pure studio and it was acquired when I was there. And so basically
23:56
all studios are giant corporations and can golong oates that have board of directors and
24:03
they are treating movie making as a business in the same way that they're treating
24:07
speacrums, soda or you know, beverages or video games or T shirts or
24:14
merchandise or anything. And so they have to meet certain benchmarks and goals and
24:21
financial targets, and those are much more likely to be met if they can
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prove before spending the money that there is already an established audience for that movie.
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And the way to prove that there's an established audience is to have it
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based on a popular book, comic book, where you can say, look
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at there's you know, tenzillion action figures have been fooled for the Avengers,
24:45
whereas this movie by Jason and Stephanie Will, no one's ever heard of it,
24:48
because it's an original idea. I think a lot of the better stands
24:52
putting our money over here on this that already has, you know, huge
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brand awareness. Right do you do? You do much in the independent world,
25:02
the independent film world, now that you're coaching, a lot of my
25:06
clients are in the independent film world. I have never personally all of the
25:11
movies that I have personally worked on, like at the studio level or we're
25:14
all studio films from Titanic through Jerry Brookhimer through MGM. But a lot of
25:18
my clients now do have work an independent world, and I will this November
25:26
seventh will be my sixth of seventh. I have to look up maybe seventh
25:30
time leading the pitch conference at the American Film Market. And so that's full
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of course of independent filmmakers right. Well, to talk a second about the
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I didn't know you that you you know that you were sure, you know,
25:45
being going to be part of the American Film Market. That's something we
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talk about a lot here. I've never actually been, but we talk a
25:52
lot about distribution and how people how independent filmmakers can make sure that they you
25:57
know, once they're done, that they can of plan for distribution before they
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begin. We actually have a summit that's coming up in uh November after a
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FM, and it's going to feature a lot of talkers, speakers that you
26:11
know are kind of experts and distribution and everything. So can can you talk
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a little bit about what you do at AFM? Sure? So there's the
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anthem. There's the market, which is the largest film market in North America
26:22
with you know, a billion dollars and deal soul, but most of those
26:26
are studio films or already completed film That's where most of those you know,
26:32
giant numbers come from. But in addition to the market there is also a
26:36
conference series and it's really excellent, which I say, of course, as
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I'm also you know, I think that with a grain of thought, I'll
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say that other people's days are excellent, and anyone can judge my own my
26:48
own day. But they they have panels on marketing, distribution, and then
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pitching, and that's the conference that I moderate. And it's a pretty incredible
27:04
opportunity because we have Cassy and Elwis, who was president of William Morris Independent
27:11
for fifteen years and has produced personally like over two hundred films, including many
27:17
Oscar winning projects, and you know, the Dallas Buyers Club. Oh gosh,
27:26
all of these credits are going to run out of my head, the
27:29
Dallas Byres run to Butler, I mean, so many incredible of the Apostle,
27:37
I mean, amazing movies. And so he's there. And then we
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also have Chosen Armbrus from Exclusive Media. It's the president of Exclusive Media.
27:47
He also has produced tons and tons of movies and basically between the three of
27:52
us, so we're the three panelists on stage, and I invite between ten
27:56
and fifteen people from the audience to come up and pitch their project to both
28:02
Cassie and Tobin and myself, but also audience of more than a thousand filmmakers,
28:07
and they just get two minutes. And so these filmmakers pitch their project
28:11
for two minutes, and then Cassie and Tobin and I critique them. But
28:15
what's so exciting is that over the last this is now the fifth year I
28:19
think so the three of us have done it together. Basically, each year,
28:22
someone's project gets made, either by someone on stage or from someone in
28:26
the audience hearing and saying I want to find this film and make it happen.
28:30
So it's a really are they usually pretty green when they go up there
28:33
or they It's a wide range. Even though we select, we pre green
28:40
some and then choose some randomly from the audience. It is the wide range.
28:45
Some are truly terrible, even though they know that they're going to get
28:48
the opportunity, and some are really excellent. I can't imagine so in front
28:53
of a thousand people pitching your project, it is I think I would pass
28:57
up. It is really right, Yea, this is not just random people.
29:00
These are people many of whom are film investors who really could write the
29:04
check to get your film in right, But it's not all I get any
29:08
Yeah, has one more thing about AFM, and then I want to go
29:12
into specifically into pitching. What is your impression has AFM changed over the years?
29:19
Is it? Because I've had different people make comments about it, I
29:22
was wondering what your impression was. Well, you know, my perspective isn't
29:27
really valuable here because I am not someone pitching film. I would be really
29:32
interested in what other people have said. And also my role has stayed so
29:34
consistent, So I mean the only thing that I've noticed is that it just
29:40
keeps getting bigger because the ballroom that we do these conferences and just keep getting
29:45
bigger. But that of the totally unhelpful perspective, you know, like my
29:52
perspective is not the same as someone who has a film that they're trying to
29:55
sell, and that that's what's so much more valuable. We'll be right back
30:00
after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show, right.
30:10
Well, you know, it's kind of like putting together the puzzle.
30:12
It's like everybody's perspective, you know that puts together what the actual reality is
30:17
so everybody's perspective is valuable. So okay, talking about these people who who
30:22
come and pitch, now, I want to you know, I have to
30:26
come clean. I'm probably the world's worst pitcher, I Jason. I'm pretty
30:33
clearly and articulately on this podcast. I had a lot of coffee. Other
30:37
that would be I would be all mumbling. But so let me let me
30:42
first talk about Okay, you know, if I go whenever somebody, you
30:45
know, I was pitching a film project two years ago and I had to
30:48
go and pitch it to a bunch of different people. And these weren't big
30:52
executives. I was just pitching it to local investors. You know, yeah,
30:56
but you want them you you can about the result though. It's totally
31:02
understandable to be nervous. Yes, So people, the first thing out of
31:06
my the people would do when I would go, you know, I would
31:08
I would have a meeting and we'd sit down and whatever they'd be, you
31:11
know, well, tell me about your film, and I would just be
31:15
like, really, I just not even know where to even start. So
31:18
can you walk us through, you know, just go walk us through like
31:22
a perfect which you would consider a perfect pitch or whatever, you know,
31:27
whatever you consider that would help people, you know, become better at the
31:32
pitching. Okay, well, the first thing I would say is to prepare
31:34
answer to likely question. So now you know this most likely question, which
31:41
is absolutely the most frequently asked. Either it'll say, tell me about your
31:45
film or you know, what did you come here to pitch me today?
31:49
So you can expect if you're having one of these meetings, any kind of
31:52
meeting, independent film, studio, film with investors, with executives, producer,
31:57
director, anything, you're going to be expected to have an answer to
32:02
tell me what your story is about. And so my main suggestion is to
32:10
prepare for that and that even though when you deliver it, you're going to
32:15
make your answer seem like you came up with it on the spot. The
32:19
pros have this one, two or three sentences memorized, and so you have
32:25
prepared ahead of time, basically like a teaser for your project. And I
32:31
want to know, you know, who is the main character, what is
32:35
the story about? And I can go into more detail, but that's a
32:40
good starting place of basically preparing for the most likely question. Now you also
32:47
said, I remember that you should also mention what the genre is right,
32:52
absolutely, right up front, because it is so common that people will not
32:59
mention the genre, and it is so easy to get confused. So like,
33:01
for example, you could say, you know, I have this project
33:06
and it's about the CIA, and I might assume that you're talking about a
33:09
comedy like Meet the Parents, but you might be actually talking about a drama
33:15
like The Good Shepherd, or an action movie like The Born Identity, but
33:19
or even a thriller like Three Days of the Condor. But if your story,
33:23
as you start telling me the plot of the character, if it doesn't
33:25
match up with my impression that this is going to be a comedy, then
33:30
I'm going to think you are totally off the rails. You know, the
33:32
story is not going to make sense to my expectation simply because the genre wasn't
33:37
clear. Okay, So you'd go in and say this is a comedy,
33:44
or you'd say this is you know, my thoughts then exactly is a comedy
33:47
about da da da? Okay? So you would say that you give what
33:53
like a kind of a log line or do you try to do I like
33:58
a log line. I think of it more as a selling log line.
34:00
Because it doesn't have to totally accurately reflect your project. It in like in
34:09
a court of law. It doesn't need to match this is what happens in
34:13
act one, Act two, that three. It needs to be more like
34:15
a selling commercial. You know, something that makes that shares the most intriguing
34:22
aspects. What is the part of your story that's going to hook someone and
34:27
want them to read your step them to want to read your script? That's
34:30
what you share right up front. Okay, do you want to leave it
34:36
like open, like you don't tell them what if they actually, you know,
34:40
get the girl at the end, or they actually succeed at saving their
34:44
daughter or whatever. Or do you want to pretty much tell them everything or
34:46
do you want to kind of keep it like so they're curious about it personally?
34:52
I like to I suggest revealing the whole thing, because if you're pitching
34:55
to a potential investor, or a studio executive or a film producer, people
35:02
who work in the business, that's a different audience than if you were creating
35:07
a commercial to sell your movie to get someone to come into the theater and
35:10
pay ten dollars. So that professional wants to know what's going to happen at
35:15
the end, and I don't like the like when people used to pitch me
35:20
and I was at MGM and they would say, well, you're going to
35:22
have to read the script to find out what happened. In my mind,
35:24
I would think, no, I'm not so personally. I like to know.
35:30
Okay, you've thought of here's what's going to happen. You know,
35:32
you you it's clear that there's a purpose be want behind how you made the
35:37
choices for Akuanac two and X three. Okay, you know that the idea
35:42
I always do whenever I think of pitching, I always think of that scene
35:44
in the player. Yes, you know, we're the guys describing the the
35:47
umbrellas that look like Chinese lanterns, and right, you know do you I
35:52
mean, do people come in and like you like dramatic? Really? Yeah?
35:58
I mean it's a little Niam, but people do some wacky crazy things.
36:01
We open outside the largest penitentiary in California. It's night, it's rainy.
36:06
A limousine comes in through the front gate pass a tight knot of demonstrators
36:09
holding a candlelight which the candles under the umbrellas make them glow like Japanese lanterns.
36:15
It's nice. I haven't seen there before. It's good. A lone
36:19
demonstrator, a black woman steps in front of the limousine, the light illuminator
36:22
like a spirit. Her eyes fix upon those of the soul passenger. The
36:30
moment is devastating between them. He's the DA. She's the mother of the
36:34
person that's being executed. You're good. See I told you he's good,
36:38
going okay. The DA believes in the death penalty, and the execution is
36:44
a hard case. Black nineteen and definitely guilty. We're in the greatest democracy
36:49
in the world, and thirty six percent of the people on death row are
36:52
black, poor, disadvantage black. He swears, the next person he sees
36:55
to die it's going to be smart, rich and white. You me,
37:00
oh what a houck uh beauty hawk got to the chase. Talk okay.
37:06
Cut from the DA to an up market suburban neighborhood. A couple have a
37:10
fight. He needs in a fit, gets in a car. It's the
37:14
same rainy night. The car spins out on a road, goes into a
37:17
ravine. The body is swept away. Now when the police examined the car,
37:22
they find the brakes have been tampered with. It's murder the deer.
37:28
He decides to give for the big one. He's going to put the wife
37:30
in the gas chamber and put the DA falls in lomber the way. He
37:34
falls in love with the wife, but he puts her in the gas chamber
37:36
anyway. Then he finds that the husband is alive, that he faked his
37:40
death. The DA breaks into the prison, runs down death row, but
37:46
he guess they're too late. The gas pellets have been dropped. She's dead.
37:52
I tell you, there's not a dry eye in the house. She's
37:58
dead. She's she's dead. Because that's the reality. The innocent die.
38:07
This is the DA. Ah no one, no one, no stars on
38:12
this project. We're going out to a live on this way, you know,
38:15
like unknown stage actors or maybe somebody English like what does why? Why?
38:23
Why? Because this story is just too damned important to risk being overwhelmed
38:28
by personality. Yeah, that's fine for action pictures, but this is special.
38:32
We want real people here. We don't want people coming with any preconceived
38:37
notions. We want them to see a district attorney. Willis no, not
38:42
Bruce Willis, not Kevin Costner. This is an innocent woman fighting for her
38:45
life Julia Bobbitt. What's we could give? If I'm perfectly honest, if
38:51
I think about this, this isn't even an American film. It's not.
38:58
No, no, they're a star, No pat happy endings. No,
39:02
just wasn't in a stick ups, no terrorists. This is a tough story,
39:07
a tragedy which an innocent woman dies. Why because that happened? And
39:14
does that like help or I mean, I I guess you know, when
39:17
I lived in la Very briefly in nineteen ninety nine, and the thing that
39:22
I could have just completely invented this, but it just seemed like there was
39:27
this like these rules that like weren't written anywhere, but how you're supposed to
39:31
act, you know what I mean? Is there any sort of like just
39:35
taboo like people that would just like do stuff that would instantly get kind of
39:39
a mark against them. I mean, not like crazy crazy stuff, but
39:42
I mean, well, and there certainly are deal breakers. Some of the
39:46
deal breakers are like just rushing in the minute that you meet someone the first
39:52
time, you know, like Pi, I'm Senaphanie, Okay, nice to
39:53
me you, here's my project kind of att you know, when you start
39:57
pitching, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now
40:05
back to the show, before the person even gets to take the breath or
40:09
build any sort of rapport, because if someone does want to work with you
40:14
or buy a project from you, it's going to be a long term relationship.
40:17
It's not just like you know, buying a pack of potato chips at
40:22
the grocery store and you might never see the grocery clock again, you know,
40:23
so you don't have to think about it so much. It's like,
40:27
no, you're going to be working with this person in depth for probably a
40:30
year or more, so that rapport and taking time to get to know the
40:35
person as a person is so important. I mean, there are other deal
40:39
breakers, like just extreme nervousness, which is absolutely understandable. But if someone
40:45
isn't able to handle their nerves enough to be able to have that initial meeting,
40:51
it's unlikely when things get stressful in the process of making a movie that
40:55
they would be able to handle that. So that can be a turn off
40:59
certainly. I mean there were, you know, bad cases of someone who
41:02
was so nervous that they left a writer shaped stain flat stain on Mike House
41:09
you know, are people who are drunk or you know, things like that
41:13
that oh get out, oh oh my gosh. You know, because it
41:17
is there were a lot of the line and people kind of freak out because
41:22
if someone does say, yes, we're going to make this movie, that
41:24
can be a life changing there's a lot of the line there, right.
41:30
Yeah. Did you ever have those moments where you had like a guy come
41:32
in and it kind of just it all went right and he was like he
41:37
got his thing made, and you know, he was kind of his life
41:40
changed. Yeah. I mean one was a guy named Mike who I loved,
41:47
loved his script, and it was a teen comedy and he came in
41:53
to pitch it, but he was pretty nervous, not so crazy nervous,
41:58
but he was definitely quite nervous. But I love his script. And so
42:00
I said, Okay, Mike, I'm going to help you because to get
42:05
for me to be able to purchase this project, this is when I was
42:07
an executive. We need to go meet my boss who's the president of the
42:09
studio, and he's going to be really tough on you, and here's going
42:14
to be the questions that he's going to ask. So that you're prepared because
42:16
I want it. I want us to be able to buy in this project.
42:20
But if he because Mike had never sold anything before, and my boss
42:23
was very sort of reticent to hire new writers because he'd been burned so many
42:30
times in the past where people hadn't delivered. They'd say, oh, I
42:31
can do all these things, and then they wouldn't. So he was much
42:36
more used to hiring people who had lots of established credits and who had worked
42:38
with in the past, which is also understandable. So I worked with this
42:44
Mike and he came in the next day met my boss did so beautifully totally
42:49
nailed it that my boss bought the project in the room, And later,
42:52
after the deals had all closed, Mike revealed to me that he had been
42:55
living on his sister's couch. I was going to have to move back to
42:59
a scun because he totally run out of money and that was going to be
43:02
the end of his Hollywood aspirations. But instead he got the steal and that
43:08
movie didn't ultimately get made. But he's now a really big TV writer,
43:13
right, And his name was Mike Myers. It was not Mike Myers,
43:16
but he it was really exciting, Well, can you talk about you said
43:22
the questions producers ask, So I think that's kind of the key thing we
43:25
should discuss is what what are the what are the questions that typically producers ask
43:30
when they're in the room with the you know, somebody who's pitching, Well,
43:35
certainly they're going to want to know. I mean. The great thing
43:37
is is that even though it may feel intimidating or you may feel like you're
43:42
being put on the spot, a lot of times producers will play like Devil's
43:46
Advocate where they're trying to test you, and if they're actually asking questions,
43:51
it shows that they're interested because they're not going to waste time. If they're
43:54
not interested, they're not going to say thank you so much. You know,
43:57
we'll be in touch. So it's a quite sign. If someone is
44:00
asking you questions and hard questions, that's even better. So some of the
44:05
questions are thinking about you know. Another point that I want to make about
44:09
questions is the great thing is when the producer or the decision maker is asking
44:15
you questions, you can customize your pitch based on what they are interested in.
44:20
So the elements of your story that might be the strongest to. You
44:23
may not be what's speaking to that producer, but this is what the one
44:28
of the great things about pitching in person and having in person meeting is like,
44:31
maybe your project's about I don't know monster, it's of a creature movie
44:39
and it's set in a unique location, and maybe the producer finds maybe you
44:45
love the monsters that you've created, but the producer is really interested in this
44:50
location and wants to know more. Well, then go where that producer is
44:53
interested in and talk about the location, because they're going to get more involved.
44:58
They're going to feel like they're participating in a story. And the more
45:00
that that person starts to take ownership and be a part of it and feel
45:05
like they're part of the creative process, so much more likely that they're going
45:07
to buy that project rather than something that they don't feel like they have any
45:12
involvement in. That makes sense, Okay, yeah, yeah, definitely.
45:16
So yeah, you want to have like a even there in the pitch.
45:20
You want to try to develop a little bit of a relationship and a rapport
45:22
with with the person you're talking to. Absolutely. Okay, now, what
45:27
are the producers You said that the producers that you you'd worked with they were
45:30
kind of afraid of being burned. Again. That's interesting to me because you
45:35
never really think in terms of, you know, the producer is being burned.
45:39
I mean basically what you know, we like to think of ourselves as
45:42
being you know, artists and everything, but in the end, we are
45:45
kind of employees and we have to produce something that you know is going to
45:49
be good for somebody else. You know. Sorry, Yeah, so I
45:53
was just going to say that. The thing that I didn't understand initially,
46:00
what became so much more clear is that when a decision maker says yes to
46:04
a project, like whether it's an executive or it's a producer, and they're
46:07
saying, Okay, I'm going to buy this, they're basically putting their career
46:12
on the line, because with one flop, an executive can get fired and
46:15
not hired again in any other studio position. Right, It's not always that
46:21
way, but frequently it is. So if you're at all on the line,
46:24
you know, each time you say yes, it's you're saying I'm putting
46:28
my career, my livelihood, my ability to pay my rent and my mortgage
46:31
you know, on this project. It's not just I don't know why I'm
46:35
a wealthy millionaire sitting here in my fancy office with just you know, willing
46:40
Nelly throwing money around. That is not the experience, right, Yeah.
46:45
I think that's one of the most kind of one of the ways you can
46:50
kind of grow up too as a screenwriter or a filmmaker is to realize that
46:53
the people that you're creating things for, whether it's your investors or or whoever
46:59
you know, they're also you know, vulnerable. You know, they have
47:02
things, they have families, they have you know, people that are depending
47:07
on them, and they can get fired just like you can get fired.
47:08
So yeah, I think that's a really interesting thing, and that is a
47:13
part of use me the process. It's like just remembering that these other people
47:19
are human and they're scared too. Even if you feel, oh my gosh,
47:22
I'm so nervous to go in and pitch this person. I care so
47:24
much that it goes well that they also they desperately want you to succeed.
47:30
They're not thinking, hey, I think I just want to play with this
47:35
Jason guy, and you know, maybe tease them a little bit because I
47:38
don't have anything on my plate. No, they are thinking, please let
47:42
Jason, come in and blow my fox off, because I want to find
47:45
a project that's going to make my career, that's going to get me a
47:49
promotion, that's going to make my bonus so that I can send my child
47:52
to private school, or I can go on this trip, or I can
47:54
buy a house, or you know, whatever their personal goals are. That's
47:59
what they're thinking. Anytime someone new comes into pitch, it's like, please
48:01
let this to the answer. Now. You talk a lot about genres.
48:08
One of the things that stood out to me was the concept of sticking to
48:14
one genre and being a writer. That is, you know, your go
48:17
to guy for you know, horror, or your go to guy for action
48:22
or whatever. Is that something? I mean you believe that people, you
48:27
know, writers should like harve A Niche as like, I'm this kind of
48:31
writer, and this is what you're going to get out of me, right,
48:34
I do very strongly, especially in the beginning, because I think if
48:37
you can prove that you can do one thing really well first, then you
48:43
will have so much of an easier time doing having so many more opportunities.
48:46
Then once you've proven I can deliver a thriller, I can deliver a horror
48:52
movie or whatever, comedy, whatever your genre is, that then people want
48:57
to hire you in that genre. Which which is it? You know,
49:00
the negative term of being pigeonholed. I say you should want to be pigeonholed
49:07
because the people who are pigeonholed initially, those are the people who have really
49:13
successful careers. Those are the people who are known for doing what they do.
49:16
Like Michael Bay. I mean, he probably is one of the wealthiest
49:20
people in the business. And not that being wealthy is the goal for everybody,
49:24
but because he has proven that he can deliver even if you hate his
49:28
kind of movie. Let's pick, you know, Germo del Toro, someone
49:31
who at least has a little different, you know, artistic flavor. Pick
49:36
someone who is known for doing something really, really well. Then they have
49:39
so much opportunity to They can get meetings, they have connections, they have
49:44
credits, they have investors who want to invest in them. It's so much
49:47
easier for Germo to say I'm ready to do something a little different. Will
49:53
be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the
50:00
show. There are going to be a lot of people who want to work
50:04
with them. Then if he said, I'm not going to do any of
50:07
these movies because I'm scared that someone will think of me only in one,
50:12
put me in a box. You know, I don't want to be put
50:14
in a box. Right. You find that the I mean, is it
50:20
really the way people say? I mean, do you see careers die that
50:22
fast? I see it mostly that careers don't get started. That it's people
50:29
will just they'll be talking to people, whether it's producers or agents or anyone,
50:36
and they'll be like, look at I have all these different projects.
50:38
They have a comedy, I have a drama, I have a thriller.
50:40
Oh, and I have this documentary. I think it'd be really exciting.
50:44
And people who sou don't know how to sell those kinds of people because you
50:50
don't. It's being a generalist, you know, an expert in everything makes
50:55
you think LLAM must not be that good one thing, even if that's not
51:00
true, that's how most people think. And so I really take so much
51:04
of what I do. One on one is if someone has a big library
51:08
of material, which is awesome, so awesome that then we say, okay,
51:13
what is going to be your career introduction piece? And how can we
51:17
you know, We choose that basically because by what we think will be the
51:22
most the easiest to sell, but also is something that has a commercial point
51:25
of view. We've left that project and then we say, okay, well,
51:30
what are two or three other of your projects that are in a similar
51:32
genre, or we could adjust that they are very similar, because the easiest
51:37
sales that you can make are right after your first sale. Because as soon
51:40
as someone has fooled something. I mean, it's just like that each that
51:46
he's seeking missile, everybody else comes around and they're like, oh, Jason
51:50
just sold his first project. What else does Jason have? I want to
51:52
buy it? I want to buy it that you want to be prepared for
51:54
that opportunity so that you can make a second and a third sale right away.
52:00
So that's what we That's how I've focus on career strategy, and I've
52:04
seen that work over and over in all different kinds of genres. Okay,
52:09
I have kind of a well, I'm just going to ask you this,
52:14
how much do screenplays go for? How much of people getting paid? I
52:17
love talking about money, so you can ask me qual about money anytime.
52:22
Because even though I was born in Iowa and my family it's a very craft
52:27
thing. You would never talk about money within my family. I think it
52:30
is so important for writers to talk about money, so I have no problem
52:34
talking about it or in the studio system, any studio that is affiliated with
52:40
the Writer's Guild has to follow under the Writer's Guild, is have to follow
52:45
the Writer's Guild contracts. And so a basic script is approximately ninety five thousand
52:51
dollars is what it's purchased for. Anyone can look up the Writer's Guild minimum,
52:57
Like if you just search Google Writer's Gilt minimum, you'll pull up the
53:01
the It's a big, you know, thirty page document of all the different
53:07
how much everyone is paid both in PDM film. And that's constantly, you
53:12
know, every every year. It's updated. So I'm not sure if the
53:15
exact you know, maybe it's ninety six, seven hundred and seventy eight or
53:20
something like that, but approximately one hundred thousand dollars for a studio project,
53:25
you have to be in the Writer's Guild. To sell a screenplug, no,
53:29
basically you you then have to join the Writer's Guild and that's twenty five
53:34
hundred dollars. So if to sell the script, you don't have to be
53:37
in beforehand. But to get paid, you then are a memberer. That's
53:40
like your ticket or membership being in the Writer's Guild. So out of your
53:46
thousand, out of your one hundred thousand that you could get paid, it's
53:51
the twenty five hundred is automatically taken out for the Writer's Guild membership. Does
53:54
that make sense? Okay? Is that like an annual singing or is it
53:58
that's the initial scene? And then I don't know what annual dos are,
54:02
but I don't think it's that. I think it's actually I'm not sure,
54:07
but I know that that I the dues and that sort of information would definitely
54:12
be available on the Writer's built website. Okay, But I can talk a
54:16
little bit more about money if you want to. Yeah, I would want
54:19
to. One hundred thousand. One hundred thousand seems like can sell much money,
54:23
and it is in a way, but that is not how much it's
54:25
getting deposited in any writer's account Sadly, because to sell a script to a
54:31
studio, in most cases, almost all cases, a writer would have an
54:37
agent, or at least have whether they have the agent to get the screenplay
54:42
sold, or whether they have an agent negotiate, Like if if the writer
54:47
had gotten it into the studio and they want to buy it, but they
54:50
don't have an agent. At that point they say, well, now I
54:52
can get an agent, so I'm going to and so then the agent takes
54:57
ten percent, So there's ten thousand right now they're taken off. If they
55:01
have a manager, manager typically charges also ten percent, Some charge fifteen percent,
55:06
but most are charging ten percent these days. So that's another ten grand
55:10
out the door. Then there's a twenty five hundred for the writer's skilled membership,
55:15
and then there's taxes and so depending on where how much money the person
55:20
is making, you know, that's a good third taken out, so it's
55:24
not merely the life changing amount of money that you expect. And the other
55:30
thing is is you don't get one hundred thousand dollars up front. It is
55:32
typically split from you get a portion. It's split into a number of different
55:38
payments over time, some which can be even years later. So unfortunately,
55:44
it usually is a second or a third studio sale before a writer can leave
55:50
their day jobs and actually have enough money to live on. Now, what
55:53
about options? Aren't aren't most screenplays options? First? And then some are
55:59
some certainly are, and those those payments can really depend from you know,
56:05
a few thousands to more. In general, it is the studios, Like
56:10
everyone wants to pay the least amount possible for the most and so if you
56:17
can leverage, like if there are two studios competing and they both want to
56:21
option a project, if they both want to purchase it, that's where you're
56:23
going to get these much bigger numbers. But if there's only one studio that's
56:30
interested, then they're going to pay the least amounts that you will accept.
56:34
Okay, now that the you know, we're we're talking in terms of studios,
56:39
but I mean LA is comprised and not just LA all all you know,
56:44
all over the place. I mean it's primarily small production companies that then
56:50
take their projects to larger companies, right, I mean that's typically how it
56:53
goes. So if you're submitting screenplays, it's not like you're just going to
56:57
say, oh, I'm going to submit it to you know, MGM or
57:00
Paramount or Twentieth Century Fox. I mean you're going to go to you know,
57:06
like Ridley Scott's Production company or you know, all these smaller production companies.
57:12
Yeah, that's pretty accurate, yes, but certainly. And it's say,
57:15
let's say that you have a spec screenplay, the something that you've written
57:19
for free, but that an agent or producer is going to send out that
57:23
Typically, if they're sending out a news script and they're trying to introduce a
57:28
new writer, they would send it to anywhere between fifty to one hundred production
57:31
companies, and your hope is that all of those companies either want to buy
57:36
it or more likely read it, like it and then want to meet with
57:39
you. And so what oftentimes writers will go on what we call the water
57:45
bottle tour, which is where they're going to meet all these different companies.
57:49
And because every meeting they say, you know, would you like a bottle
57:51
of water? That's the water? Now? Was there any way just to
57:55
submit a screenplay, like without an agent or anything, just like a normal
58:00
you know, just get it into those companies? Really? I mean,
58:04
I know that there are exceptions, but mainly you need that personal recommendation,
58:09
and that could be from a friend, that could be from a personal acclaims,
58:13
that could be from someone that you've met online better at someone who you've
58:15
worked with or worked on another film and they say, you know, Jason,
58:20
I would love to read your next script. Oh, I've read it.
58:22
You know, I worked on this other movie with this producer. I
58:23
think he or she would really like it. Okay, you know that's the
58:28
kind of that's the way that it typically happens. But it's not necessarily an
58:32
agent. It just has to be somebody who can like who's connected that can
58:36
balance. Yeah, someone who says, you know, I've worked with I've
58:39
worked with this producer and I've read this script. I like blouse, I'm
58:42
going to put you together. That's all what it really needs to be.
58:45
I mean, the other paths that people take, for whom if if if
58:52
getting any sort of referral is not possible or a variety of circumstances. I
58:57
know for some people that is not possible. The other two paths, which
59:00
are much much lower in frequency of it working, but they can work.
59:06
It can work. Is posting your script on the Blacklist, you know listing
59:12
service. There are some producers and agents and managers who search scripts on the
59:17
Blacklist, and as long as yours gets a really excellent rating, and I
59:22
think that that is an avenue for some people is worth pursuing. There also
59:29
is the screenplay contest avenue where there's so many screenplay contests. Personally, I
59:36
recommend the studio executives and agents are really paying attention to the Nickel and It's
59:42
awesome film festival. Screenwriting contests, some others to some degree, but mainly
59:49
it's the Nickel and Austin Film Festival. So for some people applying to that,
59:52
if they have the kind of script that could win a contest, that
59:57
can be another avenue too. We'll be right back after a word from our
1:00:01
sponsor, and now back to the show. Why why is it the teams
1:00:09
kind of random? The awesome you mean? Why those two? Yeah,
1:00:15
those two would have just been the most established for a really long time,
1:00:19
and they've been a gumber of really exceptional screenwriters who've gone on to have the
1:00:23
commercial careers from the Nickel, and they're you know, sponsored organized by the
1:00:30
Academy, you know who produces the Academy Awards. So it's the within Hollywood
1:00:37
organization, basically within the establishment, so people like to you know, stay
1:00:42
within people they know, of course, and an Austin Film Festival, it's
1:00:46
really, in my opinion, the best the film festival for screenwriters and they
1:00:52
also have I mean, by far the most high level screenwriters attending that conference
1:00:57
over anyone in the world. And so they're a number of people who win
1:01:01
that contest to also go on to having careers. So there's like a precedent
1:01:07
of people know that those winners go on to have careers. Also, their
1:01:13
giant contest with thousands of entries, so it's a really high bar. The
1:01:19
person who's won has won over thousands of other entries, whereas in some of
1:01:22
the smaller contests, if you win over a few hundred, sure that's still
1:01:27
good, but it may not be playing like in the major league, like
1:01:30
the nicol and Austin. Yeah, a lot of the people that are in
1:01:35
the indie world talk about, you know, it's good to get to win
1:01:37
or to do really well in a screenwriting contests solely just to get like investors
1:01:44
on board on an independent film. You know, I think that's true.
1:01:47
I think it's the same kind of like you're always looking for that third party
1:01:51
validation where at someone else saying I think this is great, rather than you
1:01:55
know, I think, of course, I think my child is beautiful.
1:02:00
You know, my child is brilliant. But it's very different, you know,
1:02:04
but it's my baby, and that's how a lot of people are about
1:02:07
their screen price and there and their films. Of course you love it,
1:02:09
this is your baby, but your love for it does not have the same
1:02:17
you know, valid It isn't as valid as someone else saying this is the
1:02:24
best script I've read this year. Right now, I want to talk a
1:02:30
little bit you You did a lot of screen screenplay reading, right yes,
1:02:35
oh yes, thousands, So you know, can you talk a little bit
1:02:39
about what you know? I want to try to hurry things up because I
1:02:43
know you got to go, But what what are the things that you can
1:02:46
share with screenwriters? That's just kind of like makes you pump the brakes and
1:02:51
say okay, because I used to read screenplays too, and I could get
1:02:54
to you know, I could get really to like page maybe ten, fifteen
1:03:00
and be like okay, yeah, yeah, I mean I think that that's
1:03:04
the hard part. It's hard to imagine how many screenplays screenwriter, you know,
1:03:09
script readers are reading. And when I was at an MGM, we
1:03:15
would get one of my one of my jobs was to be the story editor,
1:03:19
which was in charge of the staff of professional readers, and that lead
1:03:23
would get more than three thousand scripts per year that all of which needed to
1:03:29
be evaluated, read, coverage done, you know, disseminated to the writing
1:03:32
executive and handle appropriately. And if you're reading even you know, three screenplays
1:03:40
a day, two screenplays a day, it gets really tiresome. And so
1:03:45
for me, that ten page is about all I could make it. And
1:03:49
if I wasn't interest in finding out what was going to happen to these characters,
1:03:53
or there was something intriguing, or there was some interesting part of the
1:03:57
voice, or something interesting in the setting, or something funny or scarier elicited
1:04:00
some sort of emotion that I just wasn't going to I didn't have the time,
1:04:06
you know, to read to find the amazing sequence that was on page
1:04:10
sixty five. Right. Yeah, That's one of the big things that that
1:04:15
I'd always try to teach with screenwriting classes and things, is just like,
1:04:18
you know, you have a very short window of time where you've got to
1:04:23
hook people in and create some sort of mystery that people want to figure out
1:04:27
they're going to go with you on this trip, you know. Yeah,
1:04:30
and if you don't create that, you know, and I've read so many
1:04:32
screenplays where people just kind of like there'll be conversations going on, and Bob
1:04:38
will go to a party and they'll come back home and then and it's like
1:04:42
nothing is like making you want to read more, you know. And I
1:04:45
always tell people, I'm like, you know, you've got to You've got
1:04:46
to really try to be like even create like a cliffhanger, you know,
1:04:50
yes, like what's going to happen, you know, And this is what's
1:04:54
hard. And no one is saying screenwriting is easy. I don't think anyone
1:04:58
is. I certainly am not. It is a really really hard to do
1:05:00
well, right, Yeah. I mean that's one of the things I've had
1:05:04
to learn over the years, you know. I mean I've been writing for
1:05:08
you know, twenty years now, and you know, when I first started,
1:05:12
I would just be like, I'm just gonna write a story. And
1:05:15
when you when you really you know, you learn something about filmmaking all the
1:05:17
time. One of my big I'm a huge Spielberg fan, so you know,
1:05:21
one of the things that you can do, like Jaws is one of
1:05:25
my all time favorite me So when I when you watch that. I was
1:05:28
talking to somebody the other day and I was like, watch that and think
1:05:31
to yourself. What is he doing to you? What is he making you
1:05:35
like a mask or a staring you and getting you to be like yeah,
1:05:40
uh so, and you just like as much as you enjoy those movies,
1:05:45
you know, As somebody said to me the other day, I can't remember
1:05:48
who it was, but they were like, if you're sitting there and you're
1:05:50
enjoying the movie, you're not watching it. As a filmmaker. If you're
1:05:55
enjoying it, you're not watching it. You're you're seeing there putting their spell
1:05:59
on you. You know, you know, you don't have your article.
1:06:02
Yeah, yeah, And even Spielberg would would say, like, if you
1:06:05
want to learn filmmaking, turn down the volume and watch all the camera moves,
1:06:10
because every single move there is a different setup, it's a different reason.
1:06:14
It's explaining you know, it's there for a reason, you know.
1:06:16
And even if you watch like Jurassic Park or whatever, you watch all the
1:06:19
different ways the camera moves, and it tells you know exactly what's going on
1:06:24
by the camera movement. Korsawa was the same way, you know exactly what's
1:06:27
happening, you know. Yeah, And so like with with screenwriting, it's
1:06:31
kind of you know, that's one of the biggest things that I learned.
1:06:34
When you know, I would just go out and start writing dialogue and things
1:06:38
would happen. But it was like, scene by scene, you have to
1:06:42
make people want to know what's you know, Every scene has to make you
1:06:45
want to know more or else you just like that's what you see in movies
1:06:48
where you just kind of like get bored, you know, because you stop
1:06:51
asking questions. Exactly all right, You're exactly right, So it okay.
1:07:00
Let me just round it out with my typical question. If you could go
1:07:05
back in time and talk to yourself when you were just getting started, what
1:07:10
would be your advice to yourself? Oh, I wish I had learned to
1:07:14
say no more sooner. So much of my first few years in the business,
1:07:19
whereas I took on anything that someone would ask me, you know,
1:07:24
do this job, do this job, do the job, do the job,
1:07:26
I felt like I needed to do it because the job is so competitive.
1:07:29
There are so many other people who would kill to have that opportunity,
1:07:31
and so I just, I mean worked my fingers truly to the bone and
1:07:35
didn't sleep and worked around the clock every weekend for way too long, and
1:07:43
in a way I mean, it only takes perspective now to look back and
1:07:46
say, you know, and that was not the way to get the most
1:07:49
respect. Yes, I got respect because I proved that I would work really
1:07:51
hard and I did a really good job, and I moved up that way.
1:07:56
But people would have respected me much more quickly if I had said,
1:08:00
you know, that's not my job, or here's the things I'm doing,
1:08:03
which should what things should I be prioritize so that I make sure that you
1:08:08
do your most important tasks? Or you know, there were things that I
1:08:12
should have said no to earlier to be able to focus on the things that
1:08:15
were really going to help my career. And so many projects, oh my
1:08:18
gosh, it's an executive that we're just never going to happen. I spent
1:08:21
too much time carefully writing notes and being really kind to the writer and the
1:08:27
director and make sure everyone's happy even though the project was going nowhere, and
1:08:30
that was a waste of everyone's timeline included. All right, so you're a
1:08:33
people pleaser? Oh wait, too much? Yes, we can talk about
1:08:36
it in therapy. Yeah, I mean I come from North Carolina, so
1:08:41
when I went out to LA they just like they ate me. Up.
1:08:43
They were like, Oh, that's so polite. Let's just get them to
1:08:45
go do that. We do everything. Yes, that's totally how I was.
1:08:48
I am not like that anymore, but it took a while for me
1:08:51
to to turn the corner on that. Right. Okay, So how can
1:08:59
people get in touch with you day? The best way is my website,
1:09:02
which is good in a Room dot com. And I have a blog that
1:09:05
has lots of free information and free resources, screenplays, examples of pitches,
1:09:12
lots of helpful advice. So my goal is to really share as much free
1:09:15
advice as I can on my blog at goodinearoom dot com, and I also
1:09:20
have I'm on Twitter and on Facebook at good in the Room. All right,
1:09:27
well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really
1:09:28
appreciate it absolutely, it's my pleasure. Thank you. I want to thank
1:09:32
Jason so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you
1:09:36
want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over
1:09:39
to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash three thirty seven.
1:09:44
Thank you so much for listening, guys, As always, keep on
1:09:45
writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to
1:09:49
the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Y