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Burned Out Right Out the Gate — Sophie Ash · Dispatched & Dysfunctional

• Chris: All right, so let's get into something real today. This today's guest is Sophie Ash. Before we get into coaching, fresh starts, burnout, healthcare, business ownership, or any of the other polished internet stuff. Sophie, who are you really and what made this conversation we're saying yes to? Sophie Ash: ⁓ I love that question. ⁓ yeah, I identify as a lot of different things. an entrepreneur, ⁓ somebody who helps people, a coach, content creator, an author, ⁓ a burnout recoverer, if that's even a word. survivor, I guess. yeah, I'm I'm a very curious person. I love to meet new people and I'm always learning and growing, and I'm very just kind of absorbing everything around me and trying to figure out what it means for me and how I can share that with people in my life. So yeah, that's how I'd yeah. Chris: I love it. That's a that's a lot of titles. Sophie Ash: Yeah, yeah. I I don't like having just one. It it it just doesn't really represent, you know Yeah. Chris: Okay. All right. So you said something that jumped out to me immediately when I was reading the the for the intake form. I le you put I left healthcare because I burned out right out of the gate. They ⁓ think, ⁓ well, it it's something that's you know, cro it i it's a chronic or a overtime type deal, but yet at the same time there are people like you that I have met that once they get there, they're Sophie Ash: Yeah. Chris: They were just like, All right, this isn't for me, I'm burned out already. You know, their first or second shift and i i it it's it it's hard to convince yourself that you're not burned out when you are burned out. Sophie Ash: Yeah. It's crazy because I was in the dietetics program to become a registered dietitian. It was very competitive. Even to get into the program, there were over 400 applicants and only 40 spaces. So I had to work hard to even be there. And then I had to work hard to get through that degree program and prove myself in a clinical setting and these different work placements that we had. And I just hated every second of it. I hated all the all the hospital stuff, all the I like the patient facing stuff, but the caseload was unmanageable. So I was learning, I was practicing, and I was surrounded by people who were doing it effortlessly. Like I was like, how come? All these people have been doing it for years, decades, and they seem fine, and I'm just broken inside. Like how come? And I kept telling myself, like, just get to the end of the program, just just just just finish, get a good grade, and then it will all kind of get easier from there. And I actually had my first entry level job lined up, like before I even graduated, which is really hard to do. And it was in the city that I lived in. I could actually bike to work. So I I I had like succeeded in all kind of traditional measures of success, but I felt Dead inside. Like I I never actually made it to that job. Like I I never started that position because it wasn't for me. And yet everything I'd been working towards was was that identity of being a dietitian. And I was like, everybody wants what I have, but why aren't I happy with that? Because I couldn't function doing that. Like I didn't have enough breathing room. I didn't have enough processing time. I didn't have I didn't have. Chris: Okay. Sophie Ash: the energy for for all the work I had to do and I didn't feel like I was helping anyone because I was just suffering and, you know, kind of imparting that on everybody that I came across. So it was just not in anybody's interest to continue and I I never begun. Chris: I gotcha. Well, I I wanna kinda correct you on one thing on that, is I wouldn't say you were broken. I think that's ⁓ being too hard on yourself at that point. Sophie Ash: Yeah, yeah. Well, I felt like I was. I felt like I was. ⁓ because when you get to that level of exhaustion, like chronic exhaustion, you sleep you could sleep for twelve hours and wake up and still be exhausted. It it feels like you're not even a human anymore. It it it feels like you're just kind of observing yourself in a in an empty shell. That that was kind of what my existence was. And the depression and the health issues and insomnia and just chronic stress and anxiety and all of that. It was just all connected and I couldn't break break out of it until I actually left healthcare and and really started to think about who I am as a person and what I want out of my life. Chris: Makes sense. So I know you said you were burned out a and as you said broken. Did you blame yourself for that at first, or was it something that you you kind of knew already it wasn't you, or was that just something that you had to kind of acclimate over time to realize? Sophie Ash: I did blame myself, yeah. It's it's hard to even look back on it now because it still feels so fresh even though it was like ten years ago now. yeah, I think because we're so conditioned to just do all the things without really expecting anything in return. ⁓ especially in healthcare, like it's a very giving profession. And you think to yourself, Well, why would I go into this if I wasn't a giving person? And I am a giving person. I just it wasn't the the circumstances were just not allowing me to be that way. So yeah, I was very hard on myself. It took me many, many years to kind of get over the shame and the guilt of like feeling like I failed in that career and that I put everything I had into it and it still wasn't enough. When I look back on it now and I can see that it just wasn't a fit, but it's just like trying to. shove around peg into a square hole, it just doesn't didn't work. It wasn't that I was the problem. It wasn't necessarily the problem. It was just not a fit. And when I realized how many transferable skills that I had and how many qualities I had that I could still use in my career, it all just kind of slowly started to feel less heavy and more like, okay, there is hope. Chris: What I make. Yeah. Kinda got that freeing feeling in the end. Sophie Ash: Yeah, definitely. It really just made me even more determined to have that feeling because we only have one life and if we can get ourselves out of something where we feel so stuck and so depressed and so desperate, anything else just is just such a breath of fresh air and it got me addicted to that feeling of like, how can I have more of that? How can I get more of that freedom, more of that space, more of that control of my own life and The autonomy has always been the the biggest driving force for me. Chris: That's awesome. You know, a and it it's it's funny you said it that way because that that's a very good way to explain it is once you're burned out and you get out of that that that rut, if you want to call it that, ⁓ you kind of have that dopamine in your brain that's like, ⁓ wait, I can do this all over again. I can do something better, I can get better, I can a and it's amazing to feel that. I I've been there and done that. So that's why I was I wouldn't have I wasn't ever ever able to explain it that well. Sophie Ash: Yeah, I think one of the big challenges is that when you're in that environment every day and you're surrounded by people who normalize those activities and and then you feel so alone and you don't feel like you have anyone to talk to about how you're feeling and you know, you f it's very isolating and that makes it all so much worse. And it's not until you step away and you start interacting with other kinds of people that it starts to shift. Cause I remember like just going to a supermarket or something and like after I kind of walked away from healthcare and just watching people do their grocery shopping and being like, How are they doing this? Like how do these people all have time to do this? Like and how do none of them look like they're falling apart? Like how do they look like they have their shit together? Like I just couldn't comprehend how that was possible just coming out of this dark hole that I'd been in for so long. was like, wait, I wanna be able to do groceries and not be stressed and not be rushing around and and not be just like eating junk food all the time. Like, how do I get that kind of life? Chris: Especially going to diet being a dietitian. That would be kind of a stressful situation there. Sophie Ash: Yes, because there's a constant contradiction that you're supposed to be taking care of yourself and eating well, but then you can't afford to do that or you don't have the energy to do that or you don't have the time to do that. And it's just like yeah, you're just a walking hypocrisy, basically. Chris: Yeah, like you said, that that that'd be a lot of like pretty much like you said, looking at the store like, Hey, how do you have your shit together? And I'm telling people to get their shit together, but I don't have mine together. Sophie Ash: Yeah, exactly. You know, 'cause I I gained a lot of weight during all that time. I had such terrible skin, such terrible sleep, such terrible everything. Like I had all these stomach pains that I couldn't explain. ⁓ s so many issues that had really no cause other than the stress that I was under. There wasn't actually like a medical diagnosis or anything. I had tests, but they never found anything. So it was just really like An amalgamation of these toxic environmental conditions and just not having the breathing room to even know what I wanted or how. Chris: it it it's funny what stress does to us in the end. And how much affects us. I actually was it caused me to have a stroke at one point, so Sophie Ash: Yeah, it it's the biggest killer. Yeah. Chris: So did people ever notice around you that how bad it was getting or was it something that you had to notice yourself? Sophie Ash: Good question. I mean, ⁓ my boyfriend at the time definitely knew 'cause I was calling him in tears every day and I was I mean, ⁓ when I was doing my clinical practice work, it would be several hours drive away from where we lived and I'd have to live at the hospital and work at the hospital every day because the commute would have been ⁓ impossible. So I used to call him and want him to drive over every every Friday night until like, you know, Sunday night just because I just wanted to lie there and cry and just like just exist and tr do nothing and try to recover enough to like just psych myself up to go in again on Monday morning. And I just I remember like I had this white room, like it was very clinical. It just had like a a desk, a wardrobe, a closet, ⁓ a window, a bed, and a sink. And I was like What is this existence? Like I can't so I I I was very isolated because I didn't know anybody in that city. I had never been there before. All I did was work and try to recover from the work. So he was the only person who really knew what I was experiencing. And I couldn't tell anyone at work how I was feeling because they were monitoring me to see if I was good enough to get my degree. So I had to be putting on that mask every day and pretending that I had my shit together when I was a mess. So I don't think anybody noticed. ⁓ I don't think anybody cared enough to notice. And if they had, I wouldn't have wanted them to know because I didn't want to fail. So it was just a a a storm of of all these factors that nobody could have done anything about anyway. But I think I intentionally isolated myself. Not that I had any free time to have any friends around, but I didn't want anyone to see it because I felt like I was just supposed to push through and that was how it was meant to be. It's crazy think thinking about that now because well, it's just a recipe for disaster for anyone, isn't it? Chris: Yeah, and that kinda brings me to how you just said that it brings me to my next point. you listed obligation as one of the big things that we're talking about. and I think that matters hugely. ⁓ because a lot of times obligation could sound like a noble deed, but at the same time, as you just described it, that puts you in a cage to where you're in isolation. You're not able to communicate with outside people i and be able to properly ⁓ discuss or understand your own feelings in the end. ⁓ so w what obligations were keeping you in healthcare longer than you wanted to be? Sophie Ash: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's especially difficult with a vocational degree program because it's an enmeshment of the theory and the practical. You have to do all of it if you want to qualify. And so not only is it the first time you're in those kinds of environments and you're just figuring out now in the middle of it all that you don't like it, ⁓ you're also like straight out of school, like straight out of high school, sixth form, whatever college, trying to know what you want to be for the rest of your life. And that kind of pressure is just insane. And so whatever you pick, you don't want to be the one person who picks totally the wrong thing or just drops out of school or doesn't have any qualifications or doesn't have a career. And then you feel like you're behind. And so there's all this pressure to like you're comparing yourself to your peers and you don't want to be the one person who falls behind or ⁓ makes the wrong decision. So I think that it's mostly that pressure to succeed by conventional standards and then the fear of letting people down as well, just like your family, the people you're caring for in the profession and your tutors or whoever's teaching you these things. Yeah, all I did was operate from a place of obligation and looking back, it's the worst way to motivate yourself because you have no hopes and dreams. You have no awareness of what you like, what you want, what is realistic, what is enjoyable. Like it's all just kind of fused into one big lump of like, hey, do this stuff and then we'll give you this degree. Like you your your opinion doesn't matter and your feelings don't matter in that situation. Chris: Very true. And I actually have this question written down and that brings me to this really is so when you left when you left all this, did it feel like you were leaving a and being selfish at first or was it just a big relief when you went left? Sophie Ash: Yeah. Yeah, I did feel like I was being selfish. mostly I felt like a failure because I just couldn't do it. I just wasn't very good at it. and I'd put so much of myself into it and it was just yeah, I really felt like a a a shell of a person, like I said. ⁓ Yeah, I think yeah, because it's such a it's a profession that nobody can say, ⁓ you shouldn't do that. Like everybody wants you to go into healthcare and everybody thinks it's just such a noble thing to do and and the selflessness of it is people love that. But when we're giving to the extent that we have nothing left for ourselves and we're so depleted, we're not helping anyone. Chris: Very true. We can't take care of ourselves if we can't take care of ourselves, we can't take care our patients. And I think a lot of the people listening are the dependable people that do that. You know, they're the ones that everyone counts on. and that kind of obligation that we feel to help everybody else, I believe, I'm not a specialist, but I I believe that that helps build upon the burnout that we feel. Sophie Ash: Yeah. Yeah. Chris: ⁓ because of like you said, you may you feel like a numb individual in a shell. Sophie Ash: Yeah. Yeah. It contributes to a lot of it for sure. And it it may it makes it drag on for much longer than it needs to. ⁓ because you feel like these chains are attached to you and you don't know how to break them. You can't break them unless you actually walk away. I think that your upbringing has a lot to do with it as well, because I was the oldest child and I had two younger siblings. So there was a lot of obligation there too, that I would be caring for them, that I would be setting an example, that I would be a role model to them, that I would be showing them. Here's how to make good decisions. Here's how to follow through with things that you put your mind to. Here's how to do well in school. Like all those expectations were put on me as well. So then when you combine those things together, like the healthcare and then the family upbringing, it's just it's really hard to walk away from that. Yeah. Your whole identity is is is that. Chris: Yeah, I think a lot of people need to realize that, you know, if you are in the healthcare field or actually really any field, you are not your job. You are you and if you're not who you need to be in the end, you're not gonna be able to do what you have to do. Sophie Ash: Yeah. It took me a long time to figure that out. And it's one of the reasons why I went into coaching because I work with a lot of people coming out of healthcare or academia and they really do have such a strong identity that it's tied to the work that they do or used to do. And a lot of them don't even want to leave healthcare. There's a lot of aspects of healthcare that they love. It's just it's just too much. It's just the amount that is put on them. And many of them, once they start to make that separation and realize that they get to be their own person too, they get to have their own needs and their own desires, they they figure out a way to still be in the profession whilst also kind of introducing things that are more healing and more nurturing and more just freeing for them so that they can find that balance that actually works. And so I think that's a really interesting thing to go through with somebody. You know, because it might not be all bad, it might just be that it's too much. Chris: True. And I I think myself that's one of the biggest, hardest ⁓ parts of leaving a job or a career or whatever you want to call it, is like you're saying is y you build your identity around that and when you start to start thinking about leaving or bettering yourself, it kind of makes you regret it and and stop you from leaving. Sophie Ash: Yeah, it's interesting because one of the nurses, the nurse practitioners that I worked with, she wanted to leave nursing for years. I think it was about six years she was wanting to leave, but she couldn't quite get there. So when we started working together, we knew that was going to be part of the trajectory. We didn't know exactly when or how. And then there was a period in time where she was reprimanded for something that she didn't do. And she just felt like even more of a sense of like, even when I'm trying my best, it's not good enough. Then they're not appreciating it, they're just coming at me. She finally handed in her notice and we talked through like how she would do that and what that would look like. And she was just unbelievably relieved and happy and excited. And and she felt like at that time she was the only person who'd ever done that. She didn't know anyone who'd been through that. And then what was funny was like in the months that went by. She had kept in touch with some of the people she knew from work and they cut started saying, like, ⁓ my gosh, like you're so much more alive, like you're so much happier, you're so much healthier, like what are you doing? Like, and then she started telling them, ⁓ I started this writing business and I ⁓ you know, I get to travel now and have more time at home with my family and my cats and stuff like that. And they were like, ⁓ my gosh, how can I do that? Like I wanna leave too, and like, you know, so she had then became like, ⁓ a role model for them. But at the time she felt so alone and so scared and so like, what am I doing? Because if you don't know anybody else who's taken a different path, then it's easy to make yourself wrong when actually you're just navigating unfamiliar territory that you how would you know how to do that? Chris: We all fear the unknown. Sophie Ash: Yep, we do. Chris: And I think in a way we kind of grieve ⁓ ourselves because of that identity. ⁓ because we work so long at something and and it's what we feel that we're supposed to become, but yet at the same time, as you just said, i it it's such a relief to people when they get out of things that that are nagging them or deteriorating their own mental health that they they need that. Outlets. Sophie Ash: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there are so many things that we give up when we're in that kind of service, like hobbies and creative pursuits and people we care about. We miss out on a lot of things in life. We don't even realize it because we're not there. But you know, this person I was talking about, she said one day there was a h a hurricane that was happening and she was like, you know Kind of hiding in her house with her cats, and then she came out, and then some people's fences had blown over and trees had come down and everything. And she started like talking to her neighbors and like helping them out. And and they were kind of comparing, like, okay, who's had the worst damage? Like, how can we support each other? And she's like, I got to actually bond with my neighbors. I got to meet them for the first time. Like, I felt like that was, you know, I I have a sense of community now because she'd just moved into that neighborhood and She said, if I'd been doing a 12-hour shift, I never would have been able to experience that. And I would have had no idea what was happening with my own house, like if it was falling down. Like, you know, so it's like there's basic things that we need as humans, like safety and stability and community and connection that we just give up when we work in service and that's all we have time to do. And it's not until you experience how it could be that you realize what you've been missing out on. Chris: Very true. And You know, the thing is a lot of people are able to ⁓ do both. And I've learned that myself. I was like you said, I was working nonstop, but I wound up taking a break for a second and then finally realized I wasn't who I needed to be. I am able to do both now, which is nice, which is why I have this. But You know, everybody has to be able to either reevaluate their lives or reinvent themselves to become a better person. And if that means leaving your job, do it. If that means seeking help, do it. You know, ⁓ there's professionals like you out there that help people with this. And I don't think a lot of people realize that. Sophie Ash: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really do believe that as humans, we all have everything that we need as a collective. And certain people are supposed to play certain roles, and other people have different roles, and we all come together as a community and we figure stuff out. We're not supposed to do everything on our own. And it's that kind of mentality that clouds the judgment around those kinds of commitments. Whereas when we look at the collective and we think, well, Would I rather have a paramedic who thrives under pressure or would I rather have one that is absolutely depleted by pressure? Like, I know which one I'd rather have, you know, like I'd rather that person be in some other role that is in a calmer setting where they can then lean into what their strengths are and and and and just yeah, we're all meant to share these gifts in different ways. And if we put that expectation that we can be all those things, that we're supposed to be all those things, like we're just doing a disservice to yourself and everybody around you. Chris: True. And that's that's the best way to put that too is you are doing a disservice to yourself and actually your family and others ⁓ because you're not fixing yourself. ⁓ and and I think that's where a lot of people misunderstand is when you get a fresh start, it's not a bad thing. and you know, I think when we do get the fresh starts that we deserve, that a lot of people misunderstand it. Maybe you could explain that better than I can, but Sophie Ash: Yeah, well, this is the thing. We we grow up being heavily influenced by other people's opinions and our parents being the biggest ones because they literally teach us how to survive in the world. They have a certain intention for us, usually, and we know what that is. And if we want to please them, we know what we have to do. But at the same time, we're still trying to figure out who we are. As individuals and what kind of life we want to have. And when we're being pulled back to how it used to be, or what other people's projections are, or how they wish their life could have turned out, and that's being put on you, it's really hard from that place to to have any clarity around where you're going or what you what you're gonna do. And so that's where I feel like therapy and coaching, counseling, all these things are. Critical because they're impartial and they're rooting for you and they're knowledgeable about things outside of what you may have seen or experienced, and they can guide you towards making the kinds of decisions that are aligned for you. And if you've never done that before, that is a whole new experience, and that's something you need to practice, just like any muscle. You need to keep using it to strengthen it. And that's really what's made the biggest difference for me is having people I can talk to who really know the terrain that I'm trying to navigate and and can really see what my strengths are in that and where I might need support and just kind of plug some of those gaps for me. I'm still the one doing it. I'm still the one putting in the the effort, but it's that combination of the internal and the external work that we do. If we only do external, that's just based on the feedback that we get around us and we can't rely on that kind of validation. If we do that internal as well, then we have that that inner compass where we can trust our own decisions as to what we say yes to, what we say no to, what we really invest in. And it's that kind of holistic approach that leads to genuine, sustainable success. Chris: True. And i you know, y that's one thing you put on your forum too is what what gender success actually looks and feels like. And that's big. That that's that's massive. ⁓ a lot of us are handed fake definitions of success. You know, it comes down to what can you actually touch it when people think that the bills paid, you know, respectable titles, stable jobs, everyone approves. But y you know, that's the problem. Is it's it's not all that. It is, you know, success is part of that. But to be successful, you need to have faith in yourself. You need to be able to do your job properly. You shouldn't be struggling every day of your life to be successful. Sophie Ash: Yeah, because if we can't enjoy what we've created for ourselves, then I don't think we can call it success. Chris: true. You know, a and I know it's socially accessible acceptable to be suffering when you're trying to be successful, but at the same time it shouldn't be. Sophie Ash: Yeah, I just made a post on LinkedIn about that yesterday. Everybody I said everybody loves the story that says, like, I went through all this stuff and I suffered and I sacrificed and then I overcame it and then I achieved this thing. And everyone will like pat you on the back. But if you have the story that's like, I stopped hustling, I stopped doing what everyone wanted me to do, I have an easy life and I'm more successful. Chris: ⁓ well. Sophie Ash: And healthier than I've ever been. The people will be like, ugh, like they don't really like that story. And yet that's the one that I think is more accurately representative of what success is. And so at the end of the post, I said, what's more important? Earning your success or enjoying it? Chris: I honestly think enjoying it. But that's my opinion. Sophie Ash: Yeah. I think so too. But I think that we're so caught up in this idea that if you don't suffer to get something, then it doesn't have any value. Which is kind of crazy because so many things have value just by the nature of existing, like we do as people as well. There's nothing that we have to do to obtain that or prove that. It's already there. We're born with these gifts and these things that we're supposed to share with the world. And so, you know, this idea that if we don't learn a certain amount, if we don't get a certain amount of certificates or people are following us on social media or something, that means that we're not worthy, it's just not true. Chris: I think that's another thing that kind of peaks people at burnout is social media. ⁓ I I think it's funny 'cause social media has has has helped a lot of us in the end, but it's also the downfall for a lot of us as well. Sophie Ash: Yeah. A lot of us have a very love-hate relationship with social media and the internet as a whole, I think, because if you can remember what it was like before the internet, it's never gonna be like that again. So yeah, it's it's interesting because we want to leverage this technology and we want to get the amplification of our message. Chris: ⁓ it's a good one Sophie Ash: make a bigger impact and be seen by new people and connect with people all over the world, which is awesome. But at the same time, it exposes us to all these things we're not supposed to see. Like seeing the success that other people are having, seeing, you know, how much people are doing or traveling or like, ⁓ they've just had their fourth kid. Like I don't even have one. Like there's all this comparison that comes and then there's this expectation that you have to be posting and sharing everything all the time and just keeping up with appearances, which is exhausting. And you can't have one without the other. So it's very interesting to see how we try to navigate that. Chris: So what does the success mean to you now? Sophie Ash: Yeah, I definitely think that being comfortable in my own skin is a big part of it. Like knowing who I am and trusting my own judgment, making my own decisions, having that autonomy, that's the number one thing. And then the freedom that comes with that is is always at the center of everything that I do. If it's gonna make me feel more free, then that's success to me. If it's going to make me feel tied down or obligated or trapped or exhausted or just frustrated or stressed, like that's not success. So I kind of use that inner compass to guide me ⁓ towards what feels aligned and know when to walk away from things when they don't. It it's kind of hard to make it tangible because it's really more of an experience. But yeah, I mean, waking up every day and being grateful that. I have a house, I have a cat, I have money to buy food, I have good people in my life, I I have a business that allows me to be creative and to help people. I have so much gratitude for that because I didn't have that for so long. And to me they they they feel like very foundational things that I need to thrive, but I just didn't have that for so long. So I don't think we ever lose that sense of gratitude. And I think that no amount of struggle to get to that place of success, like genuine success, is is ever a waste. I think that sometimes we have to go through that to come out the other side. And yeah, I'm I'm really I'm happy to be where I am and to guide others who have not yet experienced that. Chris: think that's a big thing is y you built a life that fits you instead of one that just looks good. And you know the old saying keyboard Jones is I think that's where we all fail on a lot of things is the again, the materialistic properties. ⁓ look I have a big truck. ⁓ look I have a big house. It that doesn't matter. Do you feel like you need that? You know? Sophie Ash: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because you're the one driving it around on your own most of the time. So is it worth it? That's all you have to ask yourself. Is it worth it? Chris: And that a life you know, your lives can look successful, ⁓ to everyone on the outside and still be completely wrong a and no one would know it. Sophie Ash: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I even went through that with my business as well, which is why I wrote a whole book about it. Because I went so far in the opposite direction of like, ⁓ business equals freedom equals success. But I went so far that way that I just woke up one day feeling like, wait, now I'm full of obligation again. Like everything's heavy, everything's difficult, everything's exhausting. Like what the hell happened? And I had to like pull everything apart and look at it and like really have that time and space to to think like, is this what I want my life to look like? It absolutely was not. And so I slowly put back some of the pieces I disregarded. I discarded a lot of the other pieces and I wrote all about it because sometimes I need to reinvent ourselves or we need to make more of an extreme kind of change and and we need a lot of courage and bravery and support in doing that. And I wanted to write about the ups and downs of that and the emotional load of doing that. And because it's not just like you make the decision and then everything's good. You have to actually go through the process of letting go of the old stuff and then introducing the new stuff and then playing around with that. And then what are people's judgments of that? And you're not used to it and you're still learning. And so yeah, that can take some time and that can actually be more difficult than the original situation you were in sometimes, depending on what it is that you're experiencing. Chris: So do you think that's a lot of that's that kinda brought a good question to my head when you just said that. Do you think the fear ⁓ keeps a lot of people in the burnout a and staying stagnant? Sophie Ash: A hundred percent. I think that's the number one thing that keeps people where they are. It's the fear of the unknown. You you don't know what would happen if you took steps away. And and usually what will happen is people will kind of make attempts, like safe attempts to to leave that environment. They might like stand up to a manager or a boss or something, but then they'll get put back in their place and they'll be like, ⁓ no, I shouldn't do that because then it just is harder. I have to live and work with that person. And they'll kind of like, yeah, test whether or not they should do it. And then the universe will be like, stay where you are. And they'll be like, okay, I'll stay where I am. Because they're just so afraid of what might happen if they take that leap of faith. And I've seen that so many times in my own life where I wake up and I one day and I'm like, okay, I'm finally ready to like do this thing. And then like everything that could go wrong just suddenly goes wrong. Like and I'm like, okay, well, I guess this is the universe testing me and I really need to, you know, stay true to to what I believe is right for me and and push through and and ⁓ sure enough I come out on the other side I'm like, Yep, it was worth it. But you really have no idea what you're truly getting into until you actually do it. And that's why I've always had a coach or somebody or like handful of coaches supporting me with different things in my life because otherwise I would probably just stay where I am a lot of the time. And there's no shame in needing that kind of support. I think we all do because we get in our own heads and we can only see things from our own perspective. And then if you have someone shining a light over over there and they're like, hey look, there's this easier way that we could go or like let's clear clear out all the crap that's like blocking you. And you can just walk really easily. And so I I can't like I can't overstate how helpful that has been for me. Chris: bat and again you you've laid it out perfectly. so I do have a couple of before we wrap everything up, I've got a couple of quick hit questions ⁓ that I have written down. No pressure to overthink them, just the first thing that comes to your mind. So what is the biggest lie burnout tells? Sophie Ash: That it's worth it. Chris: I love it. What's one word for freedom? Sophie Ash: Autonomy. Chris: That is of great great one. ⁓ what do people need what do dependable people need to hear? Sophie Ash: You can do it. Chris: I wish I heard that more. can can re can people rebuild after walking away? I know you're proof of this, but I think we're good to hear it. Sophie Ash: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. If you have the right support. Chris: think that's the biggest thing is your support system has to be there. so what's one sign someone has outgrown the life they built? Sophie Ash: It's boring or it's Doesn't feel right. Chris: What should people stop apologizing for? Sophie Ash: being who they are. Chris: I love that one. ⁓ what does real success feel like in one sentence? Sophie Ash: Staying true to yourself and not letting other people get in the way. Chris: I love it. So before we close, Sophie picture someone listening today, tonight, who knows they're burned out. They know they're stuck. They know something has to change. They just don't know what. ⁓ they're scared of the judgment, they're scared of failing, and they're scared of that leaving means they weren't strong enough to survive. What do they need to hear? Sophie Ash: You're not the first person who has been through this. It feels like you are. It feels like no one could possibly understand what you're experiencing right now, what you're feeling. And it's very it's a lot, but you're not the first person who's been in this situation. Plenty of people have gotten through it, they've figured it out. So find somebody who can be in your corner, like truly in your corner and in any way and trust that they can help you figure it out and know that because it's been done before, it can be done again. You're not doing anything that hasn't already happened many, many times. Chris: I love that. And and remember people, you're not the first, you're not the last. Sophie Ash: Yeah. Yeah, there's gonna be people after you too, and maybe you can support them and be a role model for them, which is what's so awesome about all of this. I get to help other people going through this right now. You might go off and become one of those people, which could be so much more fulfilling because you've been through it yourself. Chris: That's awesome. And if people want to learn more more about your work, connect with you or learn more about what you do, get your book, ⁓ where can they get Sophie Ash: Yeah, so ⁓ I'm on Instagram. My handle is Sophie Ash Official. My business handle is Prospology, P-R-O-S-P-O-L-O-G-Y. So if you are looking to leave healthcare or maybe supplement healthcare with something that is more freedom oriented, I I do that work as a coach. ⁓ so you can look at Prospology's website. We have a YouTube channel. We have ⁓ TikTok, we have an email list, we have all kinds of resources on our website. or you could just email me, Sophie at prospology.com. Chris: That's amazing. Thank you for being on today. I really greatly appreciate it and it was awesome. Let me go ahead and hit stop. Sophie Ash: Yeah, so fun. I loved it. Thank you. Chris: You're welcome.